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{\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 632.97, \"end\": 633.07, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 633.07, \"end\": 633.09, \"score\": 0.108}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 633.53, \"end\": 633.711, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 633.711, \"end\": 633.891, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 633.891, \"end\": 633.911, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:14,991 --> 00:00:19,238\n好謝謝主席我們有請黃副秘書長好麻煩副秘書長副秘書長吳安\n\n2\n00:00:25,869 --> 00:00:51,100\n從今天早上的會議開始我們各位委員所發言時就不斷地強調這個憲訴法的修法知識提大那審查的不只是第四條還有第九十五條連動到目前已經進負二讀的另外兩條對於憲法法庭的制度以及人民向大法官尋求救濟的權利都有直接的影響\n\n3\n00:00:52,220 --> 00:01:13,738\n所以應該先召開公聽會來邀請憲法學者專家對修法內容廣納社會的建言同時也希望先進行大法官人事同意權的審查避免大法官及院長選缺在對於憲法訴訟制度需要再精進或是檢討的部分\n\n4\n00:01:14,958 --> 00:01:40,420\n進行更細緻的討論想先藉今天的這個巡打機會就兩者對於司法機關運作的影響來就叫我們複密首先是在憲法訴訟法第四條要修正大法官現有的這個總額明定為這個法定的總額也就是這個憲法修訂條文第五條所定的這個法定人數為15位大法官\n\n5\n00:01:41,516 --> 00:02:01,056\n但若將五院當中以委員制運作的機關比較有關人數總額的規定來看包括在本院的職權行使法第四條第二項當中寫到有關立法委員的總額是以每會期實際報到的人數為計算的標準\n\n6\n00:02:03,398 --> 00:02:19,226\n並排除掉會期中這個辭職還有去職者人數會因為不同情況而流動現有的這個總額也應該以現行在職的這個人數為準那我想請教這個複密認為現有的這個總額和法定總額應該如何區分以避免這個混淆\n\n7\n00:02:25,222 --> 00:02:49,784\n我想我們相關法制除了憲法訴訟法以外憲有總和在很多會議制的都會存在所以基本上來講憲有跟法定既然這個用語不一樣真的不太能夠一般的理解不太能夠說這兩個是一樣的那憲有總和當然是指現在能夠行使職權通常理解是這樣所以缺額\n\n8\n00:02:50,925 --> 00:02:51,406\n委員翁曉玲\n\n9\n00:03:09,747 --> 00:03:33,484\n大法官會議的時代到現在幾十年來的理解都是一致的也不會因為憲法訴訟法制定以後有不同而且跟其他相關的制度跟包含剛才委員所推詢的立法院執行司法這相關的規定都是一樣的理解所以我們是認為說如果要就憲法訴訟法的這個憲法總和去比擬到法制統和我覺得真的是有斟酌的餘地\n\n10\n00:03:35,566 --> 00:03:57,759\n好那這個委員在這個提案的這個立法理由裡面有寫到是要避免單一或是少數這個觀點主導判決但修法的這個版本將門檻提高卻可能讓在實務上產生自愛難行的情況可能包括這個憲法訴訟法第12條\n\n11\n00:03:59,580 --> 00:04:24,800\n大法官依法迴避或因其他事由缺席。我想請教副秘書長在實際的舉例修法所造成實務上難以作成判決的原因以及在現行的制度下大法官對於各項會議的參與情形及投入的情況程度為何是否曾發生委員所擔心的由少數觀點主導判決的這種極端情形產生\n\n12\n00:04:28,919 --> 00:04:50,491\n跟委員報告那之前有跟各位委員報告過從以往到現在說因為只有少數兩三位大法官就決定一個重要的這種憲政議題憲法上面的議題目前是沒有沒有啦所以說所以說我們也是認為說今天\n\n13\n00:04:51,411 --> 00:05:07,535\n希望說大法官嚴謹做成裁判這個我相信是每個人意見都一樣但是修法如果像各位委員所執行的這個樣子那麼會導致可預見的這個未來極可能極可能讓這個憲法法庭沒有辦法運作\n\n14\n00:05:08,075 --> 00:05:09,396\n因為拖個一個禮拜就不必再判了\n\n15\n00:05:32,831 --> 00:05:33,031\n拜訪委員\n\n16\n00:05:52,523 --> 00:05:53,644\n陳俊宇發言委員\n\n17\n00:06:08,743 --> 00:06:08,883\n司法委員．\n\n18\n00:06:24,987 --> 00:06:43,637\n在山拜託大院各位委員能夠三思的地方。好,那我們從這個圖表上齁,圖表上這個歷年的這個大法官判決的門檻齁,這個部分我們請那個副秘員您看一下齁,每年平均的這個判決數從1958年的這個大法官會議法到1993年的大審法,\n\n19\n00:06:47,219 --> 00:07:04,666\n再到如今的這個憲訴法隨著大法官出席和表決的門檻下修做成判決的案件數也隨之提升那符合當初下修門檻讓憲法法庭效能提升案件較容易審結的這個目標我想請教副秘書長若再設\n\n20\n00:07:06,107 --> 00:07:17,969\n社高這個大法官參與和表決的門檻提升判決的這個難度是否會將導致判決數可能再度的銳減那更會直接影響到人民權利的這個保障\n\n21\n00:07:18,780 --> 00:07:37,093\n委員報告,憲法訴訟法就是之前的2017年的司法改革國事會議,要求說必須降為多數決,那就是因為要解決以往因為門口非常的高,一些人民權益救濟的案件,因為\n\n22\n00:07:37,873 --> 00:08:03,185\n不管各方的見解都達不到原來要求的這些門檻的時候導致沒有辦法一直長久沒有辦法解決這些人民權益的這些問題因此那個司法國會要求降低到過半數那也參考其他國家的制度憲法訴訟法才會這樣子定定如果現在又修回去即可能有一些的案件又會回到早些年沒有辦法解決的問題的情形\n\n23\n00:08:05,165 --> 00:08:33,235\n好那從目前的這個國會的僵局來看針對大法官的這個人事同意權的行使恐怕一再延宕那很有可能從下週五開始我們的司法院正副院長都將首次出現同時出缺那根據司法院組織法第七條第五項由總統就大法官中指定一位代理院長但不論是由哪位大法官來代理首長畢竟只能作為這個過渡期的職務代理\n\n24\n00:08:33,715 --> 00:08:55,467\n那不論是要進行任何的這個政務決策或是這個法規修正正當性可能都會受到質疑。我想請教副秘針對接下來極有可能發生多名這個首長懸缺及代理的情形對司法院及下轄的這個各級法院的政務推動可能會產生多大的這種程度影響。\n\n25\n00:08:57,102 --> 00:09:20,161\n跟委員報告站在司法院的立場當然希望說我們新任的這個司法院長能夠順利的及時來產生因為我們司法院非常多的這些重要的這個司法的政策包含改革的方向包含說跟大院承諾或是我們認知各界的需要去改變的這些司法的這些作為都需要新的這個首長來去做這個決斷\n\n26\n00:09:23,544 --> 00:09:24,465\n議員翁曉玲等16人擬具〈憲法訴訟法第十四條條文修正草案案〉案。\n\n27\n00:09:40,363 --> 00:10:03,505\n我想憲法法庭不只是負責審查立法院的職權或是死刑這類的重大議題更多的可能是針對人民基本權益的保障以及對行政權及立法權的制衡況且當下我們處於立法院職權憲判出爐的前夕\n\n28\n00:10:04,286 --> 00:10:33,090\n且這個大法官人事案還未獲得這個排審那對於憲法訴訟制度的這個檢討容易失焦那淪為這個侵犯司法權的政治攻防手段因此我們的主張若不審查這個大法官的人事權就不應該審查這個憲法訴訟法避免這個司法院首長持續懸缺也避免憲法法庭的停擺而損及人民的權益這部分\n\n29\n00:10:33,530 --> 00:10:33,911\n主席陳委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n14991\t19238\t好謝謝主席我們有請黃副秘書長好麻煩副秘書長副秘書長吳安\n25869\t51100\t從今天早上的會議開始我們各位委員所發言時就不斷地強調這個憲訴法的修法知識提大那審查的不只是第四條還有第九十五條連動到目前已經進負二讀的另外兩條對於憲法法庭的制度以及人民向大法官尋求救濟的權利都有直接的影響\n52220\t73738\t所以應該先召開公聽會來邀請憲法學者專家對修法內容廣納社會的建言同時也希望先進行大法官人事同意權的審查避免大法官及院長選缺在對於憲法訴訟制度需要再精進或是檢討的部分\n74958\t100420\t進行更細緻的討論想先藉今天的這個巡打機會就兩者對於司法機關運作的影響來就叫我們複密首先是在憲法訴訟法第四條要修正大法官現有的這個總額明定為這個法定的總額也就是這個憲法修訂條文第五條所定的這個法定人數為15位大法官\n101516\t121056\t但若將五院當中以委員制運作的機關比較有關人數總額的規定來看包括在本院的職權行使法第四條第二項當中寫到有關立法委員的總額是以每會期實際報到的人數為計算的標準\n123398\t139226\t並排除掉會期中這個辭職還有去職者人數會因為不同情況而流動現有的這個總額也應該以現行在職的這個人數為準那我想請教這個複密認為現有的這個總額和法定總額應該如何區分以避免這個混淆\n145222\t169784\t我想我們相關法制除了憲法訴訟法以外憲有總和在很多會議制的都會存在所以基本上來講憲有跟法定既然這個用語不一樣真的不太能夠一般的理解不太能夠說這兩個是一樣的那憲有總和當然是指現在能夠行使職權通常理解是這樣所以缺額\n170925\t171406\t委員翁曉玲\n189747\t213484\t大法官會議的時代到現在幾十年來的理解都是一致的也不會因為憲法訴訟法制定以後有不同而且跟其他相關的制度跟包含剛才委員所推詢的立法院執行司法這相關的規定都是一樣的理解所以我們是認為說如果要就憲法訴訟法的這個憲法總和去比擬到法制統和我覺得真的是有斟酌的餘地\n215566\t237759\t好那這個委員在這個提案的這個立法理由裡面有寫到是要避免單一或是少數這個觀點主導判決但修法的這個版本將門檻提高卻可能讓在實務上產生自愛難行的情況可能包括這個憲法訴訟法第12條\n239580\t264800\t大法官依法迴避或因其他事由缺席。我想請教副秘書長在實際的舉例修法所造成實務上難以作成判決的原因以及在現行的制度下大法官對於各項會議的參與情形及投入的情況程度為何是否曾發生委員所擔心的由少數觀點主導判決的這種極端情形產生\n268919\t290491\t跟委員報告那之前有跟各位委員報告過從以往到現在說因為只有少數兩三位大法官就決定一個重要的這種憲政議題憲法上面的議題目前是沒有沒有啦所以說所以說我們也是認為說今天\n291411\t307535\t希望說大法官嚴謹做成裁判這個我相信是每個人意見都一樣但是修法如果像各位委員所執行的這個樣子那麼會導致可預見的這個未來極可能極可能讓這個憲法法庭沒有辦法運作\n308075\t309396\t因為拖個一個禮拜就不必再判了\n332831\t333031\t拜訪委員\n352523\t353644\t陳俊宇發言委員\n368743\t368883\t司法委員．\n384987\t403637\t在山拜託大院各位委員能夠三思的地方。好,那我們從這個圖表上齁,圖表上這個歷年的這個大法官判決的門檻齁,這個部分我們請那個副秘員您看一下齁,每年平均的這個判決數從1958年的這個大法官會議法到1993年的大審法,\n407219\t424666\t再到如今的這個憲訴法隨著大法官出席和表決的門檻下修做成判決的案件數也隨之提升那符合當初下修門檻讓憲法法庭效能提升案件較容易審結的這個目標我想請教副秘書長若再設\n426107\t437969\t社高這個大法官參與和表決的門檻提升判決的這個難度是否會將導致判決數可能再度的銳減那更會直接影響到人民權利的這個保障\n438780\t457093\t委員報告,憲法訴訟法就是之前的2017年的司法改革國事會議,要求說必須降為多數決,那就是因為要解決以往因為門口非常的高,一些人民權益救濟的案件,因為\n457873\t483185\t不管各方的見解都達不到原來要求的這些門檻的時候導致沒有辦法一直長久沒有辦法解決這些人民權益的這些問題因此那個司法國會要求降低到過半數那也參考其他國家的制度憲法訴訟法才會這樣子定定如果現在又修回去即可能有一些的案件又會回到早些年沒有辦法解決的問題的情形\n485165\t513235\t好那從目前的這個國會的僵局來看針對大法官的這個人事同意權的行使恐怕一再延宕那很有可能從下週五開始我們的司法院正副院長都將首次出現同時出缺那根據司法院組織法第七條第五項由總統就大法官中指定一位代理院長但不論是由哪位大法官來代理首長畢竟只能作為這個過渡期的職務代理\n513715\t535467\t那不論是要進行任何的這個政務決策或是這個法規修正正當性可能都會受到質疑。我想請教副秘針對接下來極有可能發生多名這個首長懸缺及代理的情形對司法院及下轄的這個各級法院的政務推動可能會產生多大的這種程度影響。\n537102\t560161\t跟委員報告站在司法院的立場當然希望說我們新任的這個司法院長能夠順利的及時來產生因為我們司法院非常多的這些重要的這個司法的政策包含改革的方向包含說跟大院承諾或是我們認知各界的需要去改變的這些司法的這些作為都需要新的這個首長來去做這個決斷\n563544\t564465\t議員翁曉玲等16人擬具〈憲法訴訟法第十四條條文修正草案案〉案。\n580363\t603505\t我想憲法法庭不只是負責審查立法院的職權或是死刑這類的重大議題更多的可能是針對人民基本權益的保障以及對行政權及立法權的制衡況且當下我們處於立法院職權憲判出爐的前夕\n604286\t633090\t且這個大法官人事案還未獲得這個排審那對於憲法訴訟制度的這個檢討容易失焦那淪為這個侵犯司法權的政治攻防手段因此我們的主張若不審查這個大法官的人事權就不應該審查這個憲法訴訟法避免這個司法院首長持續懸缺也避免憲法法庭的停擺而損及人民的權益這部分\n633530\t633911\t主席陳委員\n","txt":"好謝謝主席我們有請黃副秘書長好麻煩副秘書長副秘書長吳安\n從今天早上的會議開始我們各位委員所發言時就不斷地強調這個憲訴法的修法知識提大那審查的不只是第四條還有第九十五條連動到目前已經進負二讀的另外兩條對於憲法法庭的制度以及人民向大法官尋求救濟的權利都有直接的影響\n所以應該先召開公聽會來邀請憲法學者專家對修法內容廣納社會的建言同時也希望先進行大法官人事同意權的審查避免大法官及院長選缺在對於憲法訴訟制度需要再精進或是檢討的部分\n進行更細緻的討論想先藉今天的這個巡打機會就兩者對於司法機關運作的影響來就叫我們複密首先是在憲法訴訟法第四條要修正大法官現有的這個總額明定為這個法定的總額也就是這個憲法修訂條文第五條所定的這個法定人數為15位大法官\n但若將五院當中以委員制運作的機關比較有關人數總額的規定來看包括在本院的職權行使法第四條第二項當中寫到有關立法委員的總額是以每會期實際報到的人數為計算的標準\n並排除掉會期中這個辭職還有去職者人數會因為不同情況而流動現有的這個總額也應該以現行在職的這個人數為準那我想請教這個複密認為現有的這個總額和法定總額應該如何區分以避免這個混淆\n我想我們相關法制除了憲法訴訟法以外憲有總和在很多會議制的都會存在所以基本上來講憲有跟法定既然這個用語不一樣真的不太能夠一般的理解不太能夠說這兩個是一樣的那憲有總和當然是指現在能夠行使職權通常理解是這樣所以缺額\n委員翁曉玲\n大法官會議的時代到現在幾十年來的理解都是一致的也不會因為憲法訴訟法制定以後有不同而且跟其他相關的制度跟包含剛才委員所推詢的立法院執行司法這相關的規定都是一樣的理解所以我們是認為說如果要就憲法訴訟法的這個憲法總和去比擬到法制統和我覺得真的是有斟酌的餘地\n好那這個委員在這個提案的這個立法理由裡面有寫到是要避免單一或是少數這個觀點主導判決但修法的這個版本將門檻提高卻可能讓在實務上產生自愛難行的情況可能包括這個憲法訴訟法第12條\n大法官依法迴避或因其他事由缺席。我想請教副秘書長在實際的舉例修法所造成實務上難以作成判決的原因以及在現行的制度下大法官對於各項會議的參與情形及投入的情況程度為何是否曾發生委員所擔心的由少數觀點主導判決的這種極端情形產生\n跟委員報告那之前有跟各位委員報告過從以往到現在說因為只有少數兩三位大法官就決定一個重要的這種憲政議題憲法上面的議題目前是沒有沒有啦所以說所以說我們也是認為說今天\n希望說大法官嚴謹做成裁判這個我相信是每個人意見都一樣但是修法如果像各位委員所執行的這個樣子那麼會導致可預見的這個未來極可能極可能讓這個憲法法庭沒有辦法運作\n因為拖個一個禮拜就不必再判了\n拜訪委員\n陳俊宇發言委員\n司法委員．\n在山拜託大院各位委員能夠三思的地方。好,那我們從這個圖表上齁,圖表上這個歷年的這個大法官判決的門檻齁,這個部分我們請那個副秘員您看一下齁,每年平均的這個判決數從1958年的這個大法官會議法到1993年的大審法,\n再到如今的這個憲訴法隨著大法官出席和表決的門檻下修做成判決的案件數也隨之提升那符合當初下修門檻讓憲法法庭效能提升案件較容易審結的這個目標我想請教副秘書長若再設\n社高這個大法官參與和表決的門檻提升判決的這個難度是否會將導致判決數可能再度的銳減那更會直接影響到人民權利的這個保障\n委員報告,憲法訴訟法就是之前的2017年的司法改革國事會議,要求說必須降為多數決,那就是因為要解決以往因為門口非常的高,一些人民權益救濟的案件,因為\n不管各方的見解都達不到原來要求的這些門檻的時候導致沒有辦法一直長久沒有辦法解決這些人民權益的這些問題因此那個司法國會要求降低到過半數那也參考其他國家的制度憲法訴訟法才會這樣子定定如果現在又修回去即可能有一些的案件又會回到早些年沒有辦法解決的問題的情形\n好那從目前的這個國會的僵局來看針對大法官的這個人事同意權的行使恐怕一再延宕那很有可能從下週五開始我們的司法院正副院長都將首次出現同時出缺那根據司法院組織法第七條第五項由總統就大法官中指定一位代理院長但不論是由哪位大法官來代理首長畢竟只能作為這個過渡期的職務代理\n那不論是要進行任何的這個政務決策或是這個法規修正正當性可能都會受到質疑。我想請教副秘針對接下來極有可能發生多名這個首長懸缺及代理的情形對司法院及下轄的這個各級法院的政務推動可能會產生多大的這種程度影響。\n跟委員報告站在司法院的立場當然希望說我們新任的這個司法院長能夠順利的及時來產生因為我們司法院非常多的這些重要的這個司法的政策包含改革的方向包含說跟大院承諾或是我們認知各界的需要去改變的這些司法的這些作為都需要新的這個首長來去做這個決斷\n議員翁曉玲等16人擬具〈憲法訴訟法第十四條條文修正草案案〉案。\n我想憲法法庭不只是負責審查立法院的職權或是死刑這類的重大議題更多的可能是針對人民基本權益的保障以及對行政權及立法權的制衡況且當下我們處於立法院職權憲判出爐的前夕\n且這個大法官人事案還未獲得這個排審那對於憲法訴訟制度的這個檢討容易失焦那淪為這個侵犯司法權的政治攻防手段因此我們的主張若不審查這個大法官的人事權就不應該審查這個憲法訴訟法避免這個司法院首長持續懸缺也避免憲法法庭的停擺而損及人民的權益這部分\n主席陳委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:14.991 --> 00:19.238\n好謝謝主席我們有請黃副秘書長好麻煩副秘書長副秘書長吳安\n\n00:25.869 --> 00:51.100\n從今天早上的會議開始我們各位委員所發言時就不斷地強調這個憲訴法的修法知識提大那審查的不只是第四條還有第九十五條連動到目前已經進負二讀的另外兩條對於憲法法庭的制度以及人民向大法官尋求救濟的權利都有直接的影響\n\n00:52.220 --> 01:13.738\n所以應該先召開公聽會來邀請憲法學者專家對修法內容廣納社會的建言同時也希望先進行大法官人事同意權的審查避免大法官及院長選缺在對於憲法訴訟制度需要再精進或是檢討的部分\n\n01:14.958 --> 01:40.420\n進行更細緻的討論想先藉今天的這個巡打機會就兩者對於司法機關運作的影響來就叫我們複密首先是在憲法訴訟法第四條要修正大法官現有的這個總額明定為這個法定的總額也就是這個憲法修訂條文第五條所定的這個法定人數為15位大法官\n\n01:41.516 --> 02:01.056\n但若將五院當中以委員制運作的機關比較有關人數總額的規定來看包括在本院的職權行使法第四條第二項當中寫到有關立法委員的總額是以每會期實際報到的人數為計算的標準\n\n02:03.398 --> 02:19.226\n並排除掉會期中這個辭職還有去職者人數會因為不同情況而流動現有的這個總額也應該以現行在職的這個人數為準那我想請教這個複密認為現有的這個總額和法定總額應該如何區分以避免這個混淆\n\n02:25.222 --> 02:49.784\n我想我們相關法制除了憲法訴訟法以外憲有總和在很多會議制的都會存在所以基本上來講憲有跟法定既然這個用語不一樣真的不太能夠一般的理解不太能夠說這兩個是一樣的那憲有總和當然是指現在能夠行使職權通常理解是這樣所以缺額\n\n02:50.925 --> 02:51.406\n委員翁曉玲\n\n03:09.747 --> 03:33.484\n大法官會議的時代到現在幾十年來的理解都是一致的也不會因為憲法訴訟法制定以後有不同而且跟其他相關的制度跟包含剛才委員所推詢的立法院執行司法這相關的規定都是一樣的理解所以我們是認為說如果要就憲法訴訟法的這個憲法總和去比擬到法制統和我覺得真的是有斟酌的餘地\n\n03:35.566 --> 03:57.759\n好那這個委員在這個提案的這個立法理由裡面有寫到是要避免單一或是少數這個觀點主導判決但修法的這個版本將門檻提高卻可能讓在實務上產生自愛難行的情況可能包括這個憲法訴訟法第12條\n\n03:59.580 --> 04:24.800\n大法官依法迴避或因其他事由缺席。我想請教副秘書長在實際的舉例修法所造成實務上難以作成判決的原因以及在現行的制度下大法官對於各項會議的參與情形及投入的情況程度為何是否曾發生委員所擔心的由少數觀點主導判決的這種極端情形產生\n\n04:28.919 --> 04:50.491\n跟委員報告那之前有跟各位委員報告過從以往到現在說因為只有少數兩三位大法官就決定一個重要的這種憲政議題憲法上面的議題目前是沒有沒有啦所以說所以說我們也是認為說今天\n\n04:51.411 --> 05:07.535\n希望說大法官嚴謹做成裁判這個我相信是每個人意見都一樣但是修法如果像各位委員所執行的這個樣子那麼會導致可預見的這個未來極可能極可能讓這個憲法法庭沒有辦法運作\n\n05:08.075 --> 05:09.396\n因為拖個一個禮拜就不必再判了\n\n05:32.831 --> 05:33.031\n拜訪委員\n\n05:52.523 --> 05:53.644\n陳俊宇發言委員\n\n06:08.743 --> 06:08.883\n司法委員．\n\n06:24.987 --> 06:43.637\n在山拜託大院各位委員能夠三思的地方。好,那我們從這個圖表上齁,圖表上這個歷年的這個大法官判決的門檻齁,這個部分我們請那個副秘員您看一下齁,每年平均的這個判決數從1958年的這個大法官會議法到1993年的大審法,\n\n06:47.219 --> 07:04.666\n再到如今的這個憲訴法隨著大法官出席和表決的門檻下修做成判決的案件數也隨之提升那符合當初下修門檻讓憲法法庭效能提升案件較容易審結的這個目標我想請教副秘書長若再設\n\n07:06.107 --> 07:17.969\n社高這個大法官參與和表決的門檻提升判決的這個難度是否會將導致判決數可能再度的銳減那更會直接影響到人民權利的這個保障\n\n07:18.780 --> 07:37.093\n委員報告,憲法訴訟法就是之前的2017年的司法改革國事會議,要求說必須降為多數決,那就是因為要解決以往因為門口非常的高,一些人民權益救濟的案件,因為\n\n07:37.873 --> 08:03.185\n不管各方的見解都達不到原來要求的這些門檻的時候導致沒有辦法一直長久沒有辦法解決這些人民權益的這些問題因此那個司法國會要求降低到過半數那也參考其他國家的制度憲法訴訟法才會這樣子定定如果現在又修回去即可能有一些的案件又會回到早些年沒有辦法解決的問題的情形\n\n08:05.165 --> 08:33.235\n好那從目前的這個國會的僵局來看針對大法官的這個人事同意權的行使恐怕一再延宕那很有可能從下週五開始我們的司法院正副院長都將首次出現同時出缺那根據司法院組織法第七條第五項由總統就大法官中指定一位代理院長但不論是由哪位大法官來代理首長畢竟只能作為這個過渡期的職務代理\n\n08:33.715 --> 08:55.467\n那不論是要進行任何的這個政務決策或是這個法規修正正當性可能都會受到質疑。我想請教副秘針對接下來極有可能發生多名這個首長懸缺及代理的情形對司法院及下轄的這個各級法院的政務推動可能會產生多大的這種程度影響。\n\n08:57.102 --> 09:20.161\n跟委員報告站在司法院的立場當然希望說我們新任的這個司法院長能夠順利的及時來產生因為我們司法院非常多的這些重要的這個司法的政策包含改革的方向包含說跟大院承諾或是我們認知各界的需要去改變的這些司法的這些作為都需要新的這個首長來去做這個決斷\n\n09:23.544 --> 09:24.465\n議員翁曉玲等16人擬具〈憲法訴訟法第十四條條文修正草案案〉案。\n\n09:40.363 --> 10:03.505\n我想憲法法庭不只是負責審查立法院的職權或是死刑這類的重大議題更多的可能是針對人民基本權益的保障以及對行政權及立法權的制衡況且當下我們處於立法院職權憲判出爐的前夕\n\n10:04.286 --> 10:33.090\n且這個大法官人事案還未獲得這個排審那對於憲法訴訟制度的這個檢討容易失焦那淪為這個侵犯司法權的政治攻防手段因此我們的主張若不審查這個大法官的人事權就不應該審查這個憲法訴訟法避免這個司法院首長持續懸缺也避免憲法法庭的停擺而損及人民的權益這部分\n\n10:33.530 --> 10:33.911\n主席陳委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":14.991,"end":19.238,"text":"好謝謝主席我們有請黃副秘書長好麻煩副秘書長副秘書長吳安"},{"start":25.869,"end":51.1,"text":"從今天早上的會議開始我們各位委員所發言時就不斷地強調這個憲訴法的修法知識提大那審查的不只是第四條還有第九十五條連動到目前已經進負二讀的另外兩條對於憲法法庭的制度以及人民向大法官尋求救濟的權利都有直接的影響"},{"start":52.22,"end":73.738,"text":"所以應該先召開公聽會來邀請憲法學者專家對修法內容廣納社會的建言同時也希望先進行大法官人事同意權的審查避免大法官及院長選缺在對於憲法訴訟制度需要再精進或是檢討的部分"},{"start":74.958,"end":100.42,"text":"進行更細緻的討論想先藉今天的這個巡打機會就兩者對於司法機關運作的影響來就叫我們複密首先是在憲法訴訟法第四條要修正大法官現有的這個總額明定為這個法定的總額也就是這個憲法修訂條文第五條所定的這個法定人數為15位大法官"},{"start":101.516,"end":121.056,"text":"但若將五院當中以委員制運作的機關比較有關人數總額的規定來看包括在本院的職權行使法第四條第二項當中寫到有關立法委員的總額是以每會期實際報到的人數為計算的標準"},{"start":123.398,"end":139.226,"text":"並排除掉會期中這個辭職還有去職者人數會因為不同情況而流動現有的這個總額也應該以現行在職的這個人數為準那我想請教這個複密認為現有的這個總額和法定總額應該如何區分以避免這個混淆"},{"start":145.222,"end":169.784,"text":"我想我們相關法制除了憲法訴訟法以外憲有總和在很多會議制的都會存在所以基本上來講憲有跟法定既然這個用語不一樣真的不太能夠一般的理解不太能夠說這兩個是一樣的那憲有總和當然是指現在能夠行使職權通常理解是這樣所以缺額"},{"start":170.925,"end":171.406,"text":"委員翁曉玲"},{"start":189.747,"end":213.484,"text":"大法官會議的時代到現在幾十年來的理解都是一致的也不會因為憲法訴訟法制定以後有不同而且跟其他相關的制度跟包含剛才委員所推詢的立法院執行司法這相關的規定都是一樣的理解所以我們是認為說如果要就憲法訴訟法的這個憲法總和去比擬到法制統和我覺得真的是有斟酌的餘地"},{"start":215.566,"end":237.759,"text":"好那這個委員在這個提案的這個立法理由裡面有寫到是要避免單一或是少數這個觀點主導判決但修法的這個版本將門檻提高卻可能讓在實務上產生自愛難行的情況可能包括這個憲法訴訟法第12條"},{"start":239.58,"end":264.8,"text":"大法官依法迴避或因其他事由缺席。我想請教副秘書長在實際的舉例修法所造成實務上難以作成判決的原因以及在現行的制度下大法官對於各項會議的參與情形及投入的情況程度為何是否曾發生委員所擔心的由少數觀點主導判決的這種極端情形產生"},{"start":268.919,"end":290.491,"text":"跟委員報告那之前有跟各位委員報告過從以往到現在說因為只有少數兩三位大法官就決定一個重要的這種憲政議題憲法上面的議題目前是沒有沒有啦所以說所以說我們也是認為說今天"},{"start":291.411,"end":307.535,"text":"希望說大法官嚴謹做成裁判這個我相信是每個人意見都一樣但是修法如果像各位委員所執行的這個樣子那麼會導致可預見的這個未來極可能極可能讓這個憲法法庭沒有辦法運作"},{"start":308.075,"end":309.396,"text":"因為拖個一個禮拜就不必再判了"},{"start":332.831,"end":333.031,"text":"拜訪委員"},{"start":352.523,"end":353.644,"text":"陳俊宇發言委員"},{"start":368.743,"end":368.883,"text":"司法委員．"},{"start":384.987,"end":403.637,"text":"在山拜託大院各位委員能夠三思的地方。好,那我們從這個圖表上齁,圖表上這個歷年的這個大法官判決的門檻齁,這個部分我們請那個副秘員您看一下齁,每年平均的這個判決數從1958年的這個大法官會議法到1993年的大審法,"},{"start":407.219,"end":424.666,"text":"再到如今的這個憲訴法隨著大法官出席和表決的門檻下修做成判決的案件數也隨之提升那符合當初下修門檻讓憲法法庭效能提升案件較容易審結的這個目標我想請教副秘書長若再設"},{"start":426.107,"end":437.969,"text":"社高這個大法官參與和表決的門檻提升判決的這個難度是否會將導致判決數可能再度的銳減那更會直接影響到人民權利的這個保障"},{"start":438.78,"end":457.093,"text":"委員報告,憲法訴訟法就是之前的2017年的司法改革國事會議,要求說必須降為多數決,那就是因為要解決以往因為門口非常的高,一些人民權益救濟的案件,因為"},{"start":457.873,"end":483.185,"text":"不管各方的見解都達不到原來要求的這些門檻的時候導致沒有辦法一直長久沒有辦法解決這些人民權益的這些問題因此那個司法國會要求降低到過半數那也參考其他國家的制度憲法訴訟法才會這樣子定定如果現在又修回去即可能有一些的案件又會回到早些年沒有辦法解決的問題的情形"},{"start":485.165,"end":513.235,"text":"好那從目前的這個國會的僵局來看針對大法官的這個人事同意權的行使恐怕一再延宕那很有可能從下週五開始我們的司法院正副院長都將首次出現同時出缺那根據司法院組織法第七條第五項由總統就大法官中指定一位代理院長但不論是由哪位大法官來代理首長畢竟只能作為這個過渡期的職務代理"},{"start":513.715,"end":535.467,"text":"那不論是要進行任何的這個政務決策或是這個法規修正正當性可能都會受到質疑。我想請教副秘針對接下來極有可能發生多名這個首長懸缺及代理的情形對司法院及下轄的這個各級法院的政務推動可能會產生多大的這種程度影響。"},{"start":537.102,"end":560.161,"text":"跟委員報告站在司法院的立場當然希望說我們新任的這個司法院長能夠順利的及時來產生因為我們司法院非常多的這些重要的這個司法的政策包含改革的方向包含說跟大院承諾或是我們認知各界的需要去改變的這些司法的這些作為都需要新的這個首長來去做這個決斷"},{"start":563.544,"end":564.465,"text":"議員翁曉玲等16人擬具〈憲法訴訟法第十四條條文修正草案案〉案。"},{"start":580.363,"end":603.505,"text":"我想憲法法庭不只是負責審查立法院的職權或是死刑這類的重大議題更多的可能是針對人民基本權益的保障以及對行政權及立法權的制衡況且當下我們處於立法院職權憲判出爐的前夕"},{"start":604.286,"end":633.09,"text":"且這個大法官人事案還未獲得這個排審那對於憲法訴訟制度的這個檢討容易失焦那淪為這個侵犯司法權的政治攻防手段因此我們的主張若不審查這個大法官的人事權就不應該審查這個憲法訴訟法避免這個司法院首長持續懸缺也避免憲法法庭的停擺而損及人民的權益這部分"},{"start":633.53,"end":633.911,"text":"主席陳委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":766,"blocks":[["陳委員俊宇：（13時57分）謝謝主席。我們有請黃副秘書長。"],["主席：麻煩副秘書長。"],["陳委員俊宇：副秘書長午安。從今天早上的會議開始，我們各位委員所發言時，就不斷強調這個憲訴法的修法茲事體大，審查的不只是第四條和第九十五條，連動到目前已經逕付二讀的另外兩條，對於憲法法庭的制度以及人民向大法官尋求救濟的權利都有直接的影響，所以應該先召開公聽會，邀請憲法學者專家對修法內容廣納社會的建言，同時也希望先進行大法官人事同意權的審查，避免大法官及院長懸缺，對於憲法訴訟制度需要再精進或是檢討的部分，進行更細緻的討論，想先借今天的詢答機會，就兩者對於司法機關運作的影響來就教我們副秘。","首先是憲法訴訟法第四條，要修正大法官現有的總額明定為法定的總額，也就是憲法增修條文第五條所定的法定人數為15位大法官，但若將五院當中以委員制運作的機關比較有關人數總額的規定來看，包括在本院的職權行使法第四條第二項當中寫到，有關立法委員的總額，是以每會期實際報到的人數為計算的標準，並排除掉會期中辭職還有去職者，人數會因為不同情況而流動，現有的總額也應該以現行在職的人數為準。那我想請教副秘，你認為現有的總額和法定總額應該如何區分以避免混淆？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：我想我們相關法制除了憲法訴訟法以外，現有總額在很多會議制的都會存在，所以基本上來講，現有跟法定既然用語不一樣，一般的理解真的不太能夠說這兩個是一樣的。現有總額當然是指現在能夠行使職權，通常理解是這樣，所以缺額的情形或者是辭職、辭任的情形，要說這也算入現有總額，跟我們一般的理解確實是有落差，所以我們才會在書面報告裡面說，其實憲法訴訟法的現有總額，從大法官會議的時代到現在，幾十年來的理解都是一致的，也不會因為憲法訴訟法制定以後有不同，而且跟其他相關的制度，包含剛才委員所垂詢的立法院職權行使法這些相關的規定，都是一樣的理解，所以我們是認為說，如果要就憲法訴訟法的現有總額去比擬到法定總額，我覺得真的是有斟酌的餘地。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。委員在這個提案的立法理由裡面有寫到，要避免單一或是少數的觀點主導判決，但是修法的這個版本將門檻提高，卻可能在實務上產生窒礙難行的情況，可能包括憲法訴訟法第十二條，大法官依法迴避或因其他事由缺席。我想請教副秘書長，實際的舉例，修法所造成實務上難以做成判決的原因，以及在現行的制度下，大法官對於各項會議的參與情形及投入情況的程度為何？是否曾發生委員所擔心的由少數觀點主導判決的這種極端情形產生？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：跟委員報告，之前有跟各位委員報告過，從以往到現在，只有少數兩、三位大法官就決定一個重要的這種憲政議題、憲法上面的議題，目前是沒有。"],["陳委員俊宇：沒有嘛！"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：沒有啦！所以我們也是認為說，今天希望大法官嚴謹做成裁判，這個我相信每個人的意見都一樣，但是修法如果像各位委員所質詢的這個樣子，那麼會導致可預見的未來極可能讓憲法法庭沒有辦法運作，導致非常多人民聲請的憲法裁判因此懸在那邊，人民得不到緊急救濟。尤其像剛才剛才委員也有講到，有一些人民聲請救濟還滿緊急的，像之前義大利富商的小孩要帶出去的假處分案件，那個說實話，大法官也要用最快的速度去做成，因為那個拖個一個禮拜就不必再判了，就沒有意義了，所以包含憲法裁判、包含暫時狀態處分，其實我們是希望大法官能順利運作，不要讓它有中斷。今天假設像其他國家如有新任的大法官沒產生，原來的大法官就行使職權到繼任者就任為止，那也是可以去思考的。其實像很多的國家、像我們的公司法等很多的法會認為那是理所當然的解釋，不需要明定。今天假設新的董事沒有產生，我們有很多的實務解釋會認為，即使沒有明定，當然還是要用原來的董事，因為不可能讓這個法人無法運作。我們當然不能去比擬憲法裁判，但我們是希望，因為有很多很急迫的，希望讓它不要產生中斷而沒有辦法順利運作的情形，這是司法院再三拜託大院、各位委員能夠三思的地方。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。我們從圖表上看歷年大法官判決的門檻，這個部分有請副秘看一下，每年平均的判決數從1958年的大法官會議法到1993年的大審法，再到如今的憲訴法，隨著大法官出席和表決的門檻下修，作成判決的案件數也隨之提升，符合當初下修門檻，讓憲法法庭效能提升，案件較容易審結的這個目標。我想請教副秘書長，如果再設高大法官參與和表決的門檻，提升判決的難度是否將導致判決數可能再度銳減？更會直接影響到對人民權利的保障？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：跟委員報告，憲法訴訟法就是因應之前2017年司法改革國是會議，要求必須降為多數決，就是為了解決以往因為門檻非常地高，一些人民權利救濟的案件，不管各方的見解都達不到原來要求的這些門檻的時候，導致長期沒有辦法解決人民權益的這些問題，因此司法國是會議要求降低到過半數，也參考其他國家的制度，憲法訴訟法才會這樣訂定。如果現在又修回去，有一些案件極可能又會回到早些年沒有辦法解決的情形。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。從目前國會的僵局來看，針對大法官人事同意權的行使，恐怕會一再延宕，很有可能從下週五開始，我們司法院正副院長都將首次出現同時出缺。根據司法院組織法第七條第五項「……由總統就大法官中指定一人代理院長」，但不論是由哪位大法官代理首長，畢竟只能作為過渡期的職務代理，不論是要進行任何的政務決策或是法規修正，正當性可能都會受到質疑。我想請教副秘，針對接下來極有可能發生多名首長懸缺及代理的情形，對司法院及轄下各級法院的政務推動可能會產生多大程度的影響？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：跟委員報告，站在司法院的立場，當然希望新任的司法院長能夠順利而及時地產生，因為我們司法院有非常多且重要的司法政策，包含改革的方向、跟大院的承諾，或是我們認知到各界須要去改變的司法作為，都須要新的首長作決斷，包含一些重要的人事，在這個時間點如果沒有及時產生新的司法院長，推動這些相關的政務一定會產生相當地影響。以上。"],["陳委員俊宇：我想憲法法庭不只是負責審查立法院的職權或是死刑這類重大的議題，更多的可能是針對人民基本權益的保障，以及對行政權及立法權的制衡。況且當下，我們處於立法院職權行使法憲判出爐的前夕，且大法官人事案還未獲得排審，對於憲法訴訟制度的檢討容易失焦，淪為侵犯司法權的政治攻防手段，因此我們主張，如果不審查大法官的人事權，就不應該審查憲法訴訟法，避免司法院首長持續懸缺，也避免憲法法庭的停擺，而損及人民的權益。這部分要請副秘，我們對司法院的部分有期待，也希望立法院能夠儘快地把這個問題解決，讓我們所擔心的問題可以排除。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員。待會請羅智強委員代理主席。"],["主席（羅委員智強代）：請吳宗憲委員進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":120,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-6","speakers":["吳宗憲","吳思瑤","鍾佳濱","沈發惠","沈伯洋","翁曉玲","羅智強","莊瑞雄","林思銘","洪申翰","陳俊宇","賴士葆","謝龍介","黃國昌","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","傅崐萁","蔡易餘"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-21"],"gazette_id":"1138701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"併案審查(一)委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「憲法訴訟法第四條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員翁曉玲等\n16人擬具「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1138701_00001"}}}