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253.126, \"end\": 253.186, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"邏\"}, {\"word\": \"輯\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 253.186, \"end\": 253.206, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 254.767, \"end\": 254.847, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 254.847, \"end\": 254.867, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,596 --> 00:00:31,121\n謝謝主席那有請這個副秘書長麻煩副秘委員好好那副秘書長好那因為我不是本委所以這只有四分鐘所以我快速問一下就是說因為剛剛講了那麼久那你剛剛有些地方可能沒有辦法回答到第一個就是民意基礎那我想問一下就是說這個副秘書長我們的總統是不是民選的\n\n2\n00:00:32,722 --> 00:00:34,088\n總統如果是民選的那總統有沒有民意基礎?\n\n3\n00:00:39,789 --> 00:01:01,987\n當然民選當然有民意基礎對所以呢我覺得這個今天在討論的事情有點奇怪就是說呢講到好像只有某一區譬如說是大安區的選民才有民意基礎羅志強才有民意基礎其他人都沒有民意基礎那如果是今天沒有投給他的人也不算民意基礎這個論理其實非常的奇怪但我這邊我還是要再提醒一下就是說如果我們按照剛剛他們這樣的一個說法\n\n4\n00:01:04,249 --> 00:01:19,871\n今天大法官今天被總統提名之後他有一定的這個民意基礎的人去提名他然後由立法院大家的投下同意票也有一定的民意基礎變成了大法官那問題是大法官最後在做決定的時候是根據他的專業還是根據民意\n\n5\n00:01:22,617 --> 00:01:39,217\n當然我想大法官在做成決議的時候當然是以他對憲法以他的專業對憲法的本質的這個認知去那不會說全部說以那個因為民意的多數票少數去做決議的不是這個樣子\n\n6\n00:01:40,058 --> 00:01:57,317\n我們今天其實不是只有大法官這樣我們法官在判案的時候也都是根據法律的原理原則在判案如果我們要講究這一些民意基礎的話是不是以後我們法官在宣判的時候都可以請羅志祥委員在旁邊審核一下太好了我肯定這一個判決然後再把判決判出去\n\n7\n00:01:58,098 --> 00:02:24,363\n所以其實但是而且我們在選立法委員的時候立法委員的確有民意基礎有一個選區多數的選民投給他但投給他也是因為他具備一定的專業所以他在用他的專業在國會殿堂上面去決定大法官的人是應該如何所以譬如說像今天吳宗憲委員在這一個質詢的時候他至少他就是根據我認為憲判的哪一個字號我認為大法官這邊的決定我不太認同\n\n8\n00:02:25,483 --> 00:02:51,412\n這就是他用他的專業去看說那我認不認同這個大法官的人選或者說這個未來的方向我覺得這才是一個正常的討論所以因為剛剛可能都沒有什麼時間回答但我覺得要把它導回來一下那再來我想再問一下就是因為其實剛剛不同的委員都會提到各國的立法例那我早上在程序發言有很快的提過但是可能沒有太多的時間講細節就今天不管是美國、德國或者日本\n\n9\n00:02:52,754 --> 00:02:55,087\n請問他們大法官生成的方式跟我們台灣一樣嗎?\n\n10\n00:02:58,455 --> 00:03:05,538\n美國有一定的終身制日本也很類似但日本有一個年齡的限制卡在那邊他有一個有點像我們罷免的一個制度但他其實沒有真正被使用過所以他們這種在\n\n11\n00:03:23,325 --> 00:03:47,673\n我們今天假設剛剛我們的人數如果今天不夠的狀況之下然後呢到最後只因為這一次的修法到最後只剩少數的大法官這件事情是台灣蠻特有的一個現象那剛剛卻把這個特有的現象當作是一個通例來討論剛剛有一個表格剛剛羅志強委員想給你回答但我看你剛剛沒什麼機會回答就是有多少人迴避迴避了之後有幾個人同意等等之類的\n\n12\n00:03:48,713 --> 00:04:13,206\n這個表格先天性就有一個問題就是它已經預設了我們一開始就已經否決了接下來的大法官人士所以如果說我們已經接受了這樣的一個事實前提回不回避這件事情它雖然是法定事由但是在每一個個案是不同的它是一個事實而今天我們原而怎麼規定這是一個法定把事實跟法定混在一起這其實不只是數學的問題它其實是一個邏輯的問題\n\n13\n00:04:14,767 --> 00:04:14,867\n謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5596\t31121\t謝謝主席 那有請這個副秘書長麻煩副秘委員好好 那副秘書長好那因為我不是本委所以這只有四分鐘所以我快速問一下就是說因為剛剛講了那麼久那你剛剛有些地方可能沒有辦法回答到第一個就是民意基礎那我想問一下就是說這個副秘書長我們的總統是不是民選的\n32722\t34088\t總統如果是民選的那總統有沒有民意基礎?\n39789\t61987\t當然民選當然有民意基礎對所以呢我覺得這個今天在討論的事情有點奇怪就是說呢講到好像只有某一區譬如說是大安區的選民才有民意基礎羅志強才有民意基礎其他人都沒有民意基礎那如果是今天沒有投給他的人也不算民意基礎這個論理其實非常的奇怪但我這邊我還是要再提醒一下就是說如果我們按照剛剛他們這樣的一個說法\n64249\t79871\t今天大法官今天被總統提名之後他有一定的這個民意基礎的人去提名他然後由立法院大家的投下同意票也有一定的民意基礎變成了大法官那問題是大法官最後在做決定的時候是根據他的專業還是根據民意\n82617\t99217\t當然我想大法官在做成決議的時候當然是以他對憲法以他的專業對憲法的本質的這個認知去那不會說全部說以那個因為民意的多數票少數去做決議的不是這個樣子\n100058\t117317\t我們今天其實不是只有大法官這樣我們法官在判案的時候也都是根據法律的原理原則在判案如果我們要講究這一些民意基礎的話是不是以後我們法官在宣判的時候都可以請羅志祥委員在旁邊審核一下太好了我肯定這一個判決然後再把判決判出去\n118098\t144363\t所以其實但是而且我們在選立法委員的時候立法委員的確有民意基礎有一個選區多數的選民投給他但投給他也是因為他具備一定的專業所以他在用他的專業在國會殿堂上面去決定大法官的人是應該如何所以譬如說像今天吳宗憲委員在這一個質詢的時候他至少他就是根據我認為憲判的哪一個字號我認為大法官這邊的決定我不太認同\n145483\t171412\t這就是他用他的專業去看說那我認不認同這個大法官的人選或者說這個未來的方向我覺得這才是一個正常的討論所以因為剛剛可能都沒有什麼時間回答但我覺得要把它導回來一下那再來我想再問一下就是因為其實剛剛不同的委員都會提到各國的立法例那我早上在程序發言有很快的提過但是可能沒有太多的時間講細節就今天不管是美國、德國或者日本\n172754\t175087\t請問他們大法官生成的方式跟我們台灣一樣嗎?\n178455\t185538\t美國有一定的終身制日本也很類似但日本有一個年齡的限制卡在那邊他有一個有點像我們罷免的一個制度但他其實沒有真正被使用過所以他們這種在\n203325\t227673\t我們今天假設剛剛我們的人數如果今天不夠的狀況之下然後呢到最後只因為這一次的修法到最後只剩少數的大法官這件事情是台灣蠻特有的一個現象那剛剛卻把這個特有的現象當作是一個通例來討論剛剛有一個表格剛剛羅志強委員想給你回答但我看你剛剛沒什麼機會回答就是有多少人迴避迴避了之後有幾個人同意等等之類的\n228713\t253206\t這個表格先天性就有一個問題就是它已經預設了我們一開始就已經否決了接下來的大法官人士所以如果說我們已經接受了這樣的一個事實前提回不回避這件事情它雖然是法定事由但是在每一個個案是不同的它是一個事實而今天我們原而怎麼規定這是一個法定把事實跟法定混在一起這其實不只是數學的問題它其實是一個邏輯的問題\n254767\t254867\t謝謝主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席 那有請這個副秘書長麻煩副秘委員好好 那副秘書長好那因為我不是本委所以這只有四分鐘所以我快速問一下就是說因為剛剛講了那麼久那你剛剛有些地方可能沒有辦法回答到第一個就是民意基礎那我想問一下就是說這個副秘書長我們的總統是不是民選的\n總統如果是民選的那總統有沒有民意基礎?\n當然民選當然有民意基礎對所以呢我覺得這個今天在討論的事情有點奇怪就是說呢講到好像只有某一區譬如說是大安區的選民才有民意基礎羅志強才有民意基礎其他人都沒有民意基礎那如果是今天沒有投給他的人也不算民意基礎這個論理其實非常的奇怪但我這邊我還是要再提醒一下就是說如果我們按照剛剛他們這樣的一個說法\n今天大法官今天被總統提名之後他有一定的這個民意基礎的人去提名他然後由立法院大家的投下同意票也有一定的民意基礎變成了大法官那問題是大法官最後在做決定的時候是根據他的專業還是根據民意\n當然我想大法官在做成決議的時候當然是以他對憲法以他的專業對憲法的本質的這個認知去那不會說全部說以那個因為民意的多數票少數去做決議的不是這個樣子\n我們今天其實不是只有大法官這樣我們法官在判案的時候也都是根據法律的原理原則在判案如果我們要講究這一些民意基礎的話是不是以後我們法官在宣判的時候都可以請羅志祥委員在旁邊審核一下太好了我肯定這一個判決然後再把判決判出去\n所以其實但是而且我們在選立法委員的時候立法委員的確有民意基礎有一個選區多數的選民投給他但投給他也是因為他具備一定的專業所以他在用他的專業在國會殿堂上面去決定大法官的人是應該如何所以譬如說像今天吳宗憲委員在這一個質詢的時候他至少他就是根據我認為憲判的哪一個字號我認為大法官這邊的決定我不太認同\n這就是他用他的專業去看說那我認不認同這個大法官的人選或者說這個未來的方向我覺得這才是一個正常的討論所以因為剛剛可能都沒有什麼時間回答但我覺得要把它導回來一下那再來我想再問一下就是因為其實剛剛不同的委員都會提到各國的立法例那我早上在程序發言有很快的提過但是可能沒有太多的時間講細節就今天不管是美國、德國或者日本\n請問他們大法官生成的方式跟我們台灣一樣嗎?\n美國有一定的終身制日本也很類似但日本有一個年齡的限制卡在那邊他有一個有點像我們罷免的一個制度但他其實沒有真正被使用過所以他們這種在\n我們今天假設剛剛我們的人數如果今天不夠的狀況之下然後呢到最後只因為這一次的修法到最後只剩少數的大法官這件事情是台灣蠻特有的一個現象那剛剛卻把這個特有的現象當作是一個通例來討論剛剛有一個表格剛剛羅志強委員想給你回答但我看你剛剛沒什麼機會回答就是有多少人迴避迴避了之後有幾個人同意等等之類的\n這個表格先天性就有一個問題就是它已經預設了我們一開始就已經否決了接下來的大法官人士所以如果說我們已經接受了這樣的一個事實前提回不回避這件事情它雖然是法定事由但是在每一個個案是不同的它是一個事實而今天我們原而怎麼規定這是一個法定把事實跟法定混在一起這其實不只是數學的問題它其實是一個邏輯的問題\n謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.596 --> 00:31.121\n謝謝主席那有請這個副秘書長麻煩副秘委員好好那副秘書長好那因為我不是本委所以這只有四分鐘所以我快速問一下就是說因為剛剛講了那麼久那你剛剛有些地方可能沒有辦法回答到第一個就是民意基礎那我想問一下就是說這個副秘書長我們的總統是不是民選的\n\n00:32.722 --> 00:34.088\n總統如果是民選的那總統有沒有民意基礎?\n\n00:39.789 --> 01:01.987\n當然民選當然有民意基礎對所以呢我覺得這個今天在討論的事情有點奇怪就是說呢講到好像只有某一區譬如說是大安區的選民才有民意基礎羅志強才有民意基礎其他人都沒有民意基礎那如果是今天沒有投給他的人也不算民意基礎這個論理其實非常的奇怪但我這邊我還是要再提醒一下就是說如果我們按照剛剛他們這樣的一個說法\n\n01:04.249 --> 01:19.871\n今天大法官今天被總統提名之後他有一定的這個民意基礎的人去提名他然後由立法院大家的投下同意票也有一定的民意基礎變成了大法官那問題是大法官最後在做決定的時候是根據他的專業還是根據民意\n\n01:22.617 --> 01:39.217\n當然我想大法官在做成決議的時候當然是以他對憲法以他的專業對憲法的本質的這個認知去那不會說全部說以那個因為民意的多數票少數去做決議的不是這個樣子\n\n01:40.058 --> 01:57.317\n我們今天其實不是只有大法官這樣我們法官在判案的時候也都是根據法律的原理原則在判案如果我們要講究這一些民意基礎的話是不是以後我們法官在宣判的時候都可以請羅志祥委員在旁邊審核一下太好了我肯定這一個判決然後再把判決判出去\n\n01:58.098 --> 02:24.363\n所以其實但是而且我們在選立法委員的時候立法委員的確有民意基礎有一個選區多數的選民投給他但投給他也是因為他具備一定的專業所以他在用他的專業在國會殿堂上面去決定大法官的人是應該如何所以譬如說像今天吳宗憲委員在這一個質詢的時候他至少他就是根據我認為憲判的哪一個字號我認為大法官這邊的決定我不太認同\n\n02:25.483 --> 02:51.412\n這就是他用他的專業去看說那我認不認同這個大法官的人選或者說這個未來的方向我覺得這才是一個正常的討論所以因為剛剛可能都沒有什麼時間回答但我覺得要把它導回來一下那再來我想再問一下就是因為其實剛剛不同的委員都會提到各國的立法例那我早上在程序發言有很快的提過但是可能沒有太多的時間講細節就今天不管是美國、德國或者日本\n\n02:52.754 --> 02:55.087\n請問他們大法官生成的方式跟我們台灣一樣嗎?\n\n02:58.455 --> 03:05.538\n美國有一定的終身制日本也很類似但日本有一個年齡的限制卡在那邊他有一個有點像我們罷免的一個制度但他其實沒有真正被使用過所以他們這種在\n\n03:23.325 --> 03:47.673\n我們今天假設剛剛我們的人數如果今天不夠的狀況之下然後呢到最後只因為這一次的修法到最後只剩少數的大法官這件事情是台灣蠻特有的一個現象那剛剛卻把這個特有的現象當作是一個通例來討論剛剛有一個表格剛剛羅志強委員想給你回答但我看你剛剛沒什麼機會回答就是有多少人迴避迴避了之後有幾個人同意等等之類的\n\n03:48.713 --> 04:13.206\n這個表格先天性就有一個問題就是它已經預設了我們一開始就已經否決了接下來的大法官人士所以如果說我們已經接受了這樣的一個事實前提回不回避這件事情它雖然是法定事由但是在每一個個案是不同的它是一個事實而今天我們原而怎麼規定這是一個法定把事實跟法定混在一起這其實不只是數學的問題它其實是一個邏輯的問題\n\n04:14.767 --> 04:14.867\n謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.596,"end":31.121,"text":"謝謝主席 那有請這個副秘書長麻煩副秘委員好好 那副秘書長好那因為我不是本委所以這只有四分鐘所以我快速問一下就是說因為剛剛講了那麼久那你剛剛有些地方可能沒有辦法回答到第一個就是民意基礎那我想問一下就是說這個副秘書長我們的總統是不是民選的"},{"start":32.722,"end":34.088,"text":"總統如果是民選的那總統有沒有民意基礎?"},{"start":39.789,"end":61.987,"text":"當然民選當然有民意基礎對所以呢我覺得這個今天在討論的事情有點奇怪就是說呢講到好像只有某一區譬如說是大安區的選民才有民意基礎羅志強才有民意基礎其他人都沒有民意基礎那如果是今天沒有投給他的人也不算民意基礎這個論理其實非常的奇怪但我這邊我還是要再提醒一下就是說如果我們按照剛剛他們這樣的一個說法"},{"start":64.249,"end":79.871,"text":"今天大法官今天被總統提名之後他有一定的這個民意基礎的人去提名他然後由立法院大家的投下同意票也有一定的民意基礎變成了大法官那問題是大法官最後在做決定的時候是根據他的專業還是根據民意"},{"start":82.617,"end":99.217,"text":"當然我想大法官在做成決議的時候當然是以他對憲法以他的專業對憲法的本質的這個認知去那不會說全部說以那個因為民意的多數票少數去做決議的不是這個樣子"},{"start":100.058,"end":117.317,"text":"我們今天其實不是只有大法官這樣我們法官在判案的時候也都是根據法律的原理原則在判案如果我們要講究這一些民意基礎的話是不是以後我們法官在宣判的時候都可以請羅志祥委員在旁邊審核一下太好了我肯定這一個判決然後再把判決判出去"},{"start":118.098,"end":144.363,"text":"所以其實但是而且我們在選立法委員的時候立法委員的確有民意基礎有一個選區多數的選民投給他但投給他也是因為他具備一定的專業所以他在用他的專業在國會殿堂上面去決定大法官的人是應該如何所以譬如說像今天吳宗憲委員在這一個質詢的時候他至少他就是根據我認為憲判的哪一個字號我認為大法官這邊的決定我不太認同"},{"start":145.483,"end":171.412,"text":"這就是他用他的專業去看說那我認不認同這個大法官的人選或者說這個未來的方向我覺得這才是一個正常的討論所以因為剛剛可能都沒有什麼時間回答但我覺得要把它導回來一下那再來我想再問一下就是因為其實剛剛不同的委員都會提到各國的立法例那我早上在程序發言有很快的提過但是可能沒有太多的時間講細節就今天不管是美國、德國或者日本"},{"start":172.754,"end":175.087,"text":"請問他們大法官生成的方式跟我們台灣一樣嗎?"},{"start":178.455,"end":185.538,"text":"美國有一定的終身制日本也很類似但日本有一個年齡的限制卡在那邊他有一個有點像我們罷免的一個制度但他其實沒有真正被使用過所以他們這種在"},{"start":203.325,"end":227.673,"text":"我們今天假設剛剛我們的人數如果今天不夠的狀況之下然後呢到最後只因為這一次的修法到最後只剩少數的大法官這件事情是台灣蠻特有的一個現象那剛剛卻把這個特有的現象當作是一個通例來討論剛剛有一個表格剛剛羅志強委員想給你回答但我看你剛剛沒什麼機會回答就是有多少人迴避迴避了之後有幾個人同意等等之類的"},{"start":228.713,"end":253.206,"text":"這個表格先天性就有一個問題就是它已經預設了我們一開始就已經否決了接下來的大法官人士所以如果說我們已經接受了這樣的一個事實前提回不回避這件事情它雖然是法定事由但是在每一個個案是不同的它是一個事實而今天我們原而怎麼規定這是一個法定把事實跟法定混在一起這其實不只是數學的問題它其實是一個邏輯的問題"},{"start":254.767,"end":254.867,"text":"謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":944,"blocks":[["沈委員伯洋：（14時48分）謝謝主席，有請副秘書長。"],["主席：麻煩副秘。"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：委員好。"],["沈委員伯洋：副秘書長好。因為我不是本委，只有4分鐘，所以我快速問一下，因為剛剛講了那麼久，你剛有些地方可能沒有辦法回答到，第一個就是民意基礎，那我想問一下，副秘書長，我們的總統是不是民選？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：跟委員報告，當然是。"],["沈委員伯洋：是，總統如果是民選的，那總統有沒有民意基礎？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：民選當然有民意基礎。"],["沈委員伯洋：對，所以我覺得今天在討論的事情有點奇怪，就是說講得好像只有某一區，譬如說大安區的選民才有民意基礎，羅智強才有民意基礎，其他人都沒有民意基礎，如果今天沒有投給他的人也不算民意基礎，這個論理其實非常地奇怪。但這邊我還是要再提醒一下就是說，如果我們按照剛剛他們這樣的說法，今天大法官被總統提名之後，是有一定的民意基礎的人去提名他，然後由立法院的大家投下同意票，也有一定的民意基礎，變成了大法官，那問題是大法官最後在做決定的時候，是根據他的專業還是根據民意？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：我想大法官在做成決議的時候當然是以他的專業對憲法本旨的認知，不會說全部以民意的多數、少數去做決議，不是這個樣子。"],["沈委員伯洋：是嘛！我們今天其實不是只有大法官這樣，我們法官在判案的時候，也都是根據法律的原理原則在判案嘛！如果我們要講究這一些民意基礎的話，是不是以後我們法官在宣判的時候都可以請羅智強委員在旁邊審核一下，太好了，我肯定這一個判決，然後再把判決判出去？而且我們在選立法委員的時候，立法委員的確有民意基礎，有一個選區多數的選民投給他，但投給他也是因為他具備一定的專業嘛！他再用他的專業在國會殿堂上面去決定大法官的人事應該如何，所以譬如說像今天吳宗憲委員在質詢的時候，至少他就是根據：我認為憲判的哪一個字號，我認為大法官這邊的決定我不太認同，這個就是他用他的專業去看我認不認同這個大法官的人選或者說未來的方向，我覺得這才是一個正常的討論。因為剛剛可能都沒有什麼時間回答，但我覺得要把它導回來一下。","再來我想再問一下就是，因為其實剛剛不同的委員都會提到各國的立法例，我早上在程序發言有很快地提過，但是可能沒有太多的時間講細節，今天不管是美國、德國或者日本，請問他們大法官生成的方式跟我們臺灣一樣嗎？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：大法官的生成方式可能每個國家不一樣，像德國的話可能不太一樣，但是我個人沒有去做這方面的調查。"],["沈委員伯洋：像以美國來講，美國有一定的終身制嘛！日本也很類似，但日本有一個年齡的限制卡在那邊，它有一個有點像我們罷免的制度，但它其實沒有真正被使用過。所以他們這種在我們今天假設我們的人數不夠的狀況之下，然後只因為這一次的修法，到最後只剩少數的大法官這件事情，是臺灣滿特有的一個現象，剛剛卻把這個特有的現象當作是一個通例來討論。剛剛有一個表格，羅智強委員想讓你回答，但我看你沒什麼機會回答，就是有多少人迴避，迴避了之後有幾個人同意等等之類的，這個表格先天性就有一個問題，就是它已經預設了我們一開始就已經否決了接下來的大法官人事。所以如果說我們已經接受了這樣的一個事實前提，迴不迴避這件事情，它雖然是法定事由，但是在每一個個案是不同的，它是一個事實，而今天我們員額怎麼規定，這是一個法定，把事實跟法定混在一起，這其實不只是數學的問題，它其實是一個邏輯的問題，那我覺得在國會的殿堂上面不斷地誤導，然後也不給回答的空間，我覺得非常不妥適。希望之後司法院能夠有一個更完整的說法，讓國人能夠知道現在到底是在討論什麼，不然的話，其中的細節有點複雜，大家又可能會顧左右而言他，到最後可能就失去了焦點。因為我的時間已經到了，謝謝，謝謝主席。"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝沈委員。","下一位請鄭天財委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":120,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-6","speakers":["吳宗憲","吳思瑤","鍾佳濱","沈發惠","沈伯洋","翁曉玲","羅智強","莊瑞雄","林思銘","洪申翰","陳俊宇","賴士葆","謝龍介","黃國昌","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","傅崐萁","蔡易餘"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-21"],"gazette_id":"1138701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"併案審查(一)委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「憲法訴訟法第四條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員翁曉玲等\n16人擬具「憲法訴訟法第九十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1138701_00001"}}}