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\"text\": \"二、10月19日上午10時為國是論壇時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 539.0, \"end\": 539.12, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 539.12, \"end\": 539.26, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 539.26, \"end\": 539.541, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 539.541, \"end\": 539.781, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"午\", \"start\": 539.781, \"end\": 540.081, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 540.081, \"end\": 540.321, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"壇\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, 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{\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 700.089, \"end\": 700.109, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 700.109, \"end\": 700.149, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"雄\", \"start\": 700.149, \"end\": 700.309, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"車\"}, {\"word\": \"站\", \"start\": 700.309, \"end\": 700.449, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 700.449, \"end\": 700.509, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 700.509, \"end\": 700.649, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 700.649, \"end\": 700.689, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 700.689, \"end\": 700.789, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 700.789, \"end\": 700.809, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 728.545, \"end\": 749.694, \"text\": \"所以在歷史很清楚嘛歷史都留下了很清楚的記錄當時如果交通部長支持的話其實這個案子就會進到高雄車站但是他已經想得很清楚到高雄車站甚至屏東不具可行性當你這樣一講下去的時候這個案子等於就是死掉\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 728.545, \"end\": 730.746, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 730.746, 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746.633, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 746.633, \"end\": 746.793, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 746.793, \"end\": 746.973, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 746.973, \"end\": 747.553, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 747.553, \"end\": 747.833, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 747.833, \"end\": 748.113, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 748.113, \"end\": 748.253, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 748.253, \"end\": 748.373, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 748.373, \"end\": 748.413, \"score\": 0.493}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 748.413, \"end\": 748.894, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 748.894, \"end\": 749.014, \"score\": 0.769}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 749.014, \"end\": 749.094, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 749.094, \"end\": 749.214, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 749.214, \"end\": 749.254, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 749.254, \"end\": 749.394, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 749.394, \"end\": 749.574, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"死\", \"start\": 749.574, \"end\": 749.674, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"掉\", \"start\": 749.674, \"end\": 749.694, \"score\": 0.933}]}, {\"start\": 750.074, \"end\": 750.134, \"text\": \"院長是這樣嗎?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 750.074, \"end\": 750.114, \"score\": 0.498}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 750.114, \"end\": 750.134, \"score\": 0.042}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 772.988, \"end\": 787.537, \"text\": \"現在最有可能的方案就是進到高雄車站的方案目前我們兩個案子啦那目前大家收攏大家的意見聽起來高雄方案很像大家認為比較可行那我的想法是如果已經確定因為既然講到從左移方案是\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 772.988, \"end\": 774.028, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 888.475, \"end\": 888.595, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 888.595, \"end\": 888.815, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 888.815, \"end\": 888.915, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 888.915, \"end\": 888.935, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 888.935, \"end\": 889.516, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 889.516, \"end\": 889.917, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"華\"}, {\"word\": \"航\", \"start\": 889.917, \"end\": 890.077, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 890.077, \"end\": 890.217, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 890.217, \"end\": 890.558, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"購\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 890.558, \"end\": 890.638, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 890.638, \"end\": 890.678, \"score\": 0.399}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 890.678, \"end\": 890.838, 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\"start\": 899.27, \"end\": 899.33, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"卓\", \"start\": 899.33, \"end\": 899.43, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 899.43, \"end\": 899.45, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 928.912, \"end\": 929.073, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 929.073, \"end\": 929.133, \"score\": 0.692}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 929.133, \"end\": 929.395, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"亭\", \"start\": 929.395, \"end\": 929.617, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"飛\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 929.617, \"end\": 929.637, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,892 --> 00:00:05,975\n謝主席,請卓院長請卓院長備詢\n\n2\n00:00:15,842 --> 00:00:43,551\n院長辛苦了首先還是要談其實我認為總預算其實是憲政的問題是權力分立是責任政治的問題那行政跟立法應該本以自己的憲政權責來施政我認為這個才是國家之福那現在我們的憲法的規定跟預算法的規定其實都非常的清楚那這個院長後面這樣的僵局怎麼解決你怎麼看\n\n3\n00:00:45,421 --> 00:01:01,747\n謝謝委員讓我再度有機會來說出我心裡從一開始到今天為止始終如一的一個想法只有一種想法就只能我在上一次的臉書的文章所說的其實行政院只有一個立場只有一個堅持\n\n4\n00:01:02,927 --> 00:01:17,865\n就是以後編列預算一定要按照憲法70條的精神,預算法93條的規定,如果立法院在審查預算的時候有增加稅出減少稅入,一定要遵循行政院的意見。\n\n5\n00:01:18,866 --> 00:01:45,558\n同時要指出資金彌補資金的來源必要的時候還要進行必要的修法如果能夠進行這樣的程序兩院之間互相尊重毫無問題院長提出一個很關鍵性的問題就過去以來有的話通常也都是行政院其實是認可的也支持的所以才能夠進行但行政院有所疑慮要負這個政治責任的其實最後是行政院提出來任何\n\n6\n00:01:46,098 --> 00:02:12,366\n那國家的資源有限下的時候一定要做一些適度一些調配跟整理那如果現在26億可以不經行政院的同意就強行的要求的話那接下來260億那可能更多的經費那國家的財政怎麼樣來運作所以我認為這個是一個憲政的而且作為要負起總的政治責任的其實行政院因為人民最後救者的是行政院行政院同意而支持而做的這個是行政院要負起責任所以我認為\n\n7\n00:02:13,306 --> 00:02:37,666\n每個政黨都有機會成為執政黨,都有機會成為國會的多數黨,但是應該把這個行政和立法的權責確立清楚,我任何國家才能長治久安,院長同意這樣的看法嗎?完全沒錯,如果履行剛剛的程序,兩院之間互相尊重,絕對沒有問題。同時,大法官4次391號,他寫得非常清楚,無論是審議、審查、審議或是法律案,\n\n8\n00:02:39,525 --> 00:02:56,745\n涉及施政計畫內容的變動或調整,就算你預算項目移動或追加,非常重要,亦導致政策成敗無所歸屬,責任政治難以確立,有違行政權、立法權分立。\n\n9\n00:02:58,472 --> 00:03:23,699\n應該各本所施之制衡原理,因為憲法所不許。憲法391非常,四字391非常清楚寫到這一頁。所以這個其實非常清楚,現在院長所堅持的也不是只有你而已,其實堅持的是一套制度啦,不然這個東西,惡例一旦延續下去,每次都可以這樣做的話,那大概整個責任政治會混亂掉,同時間整個行政立法的體系會整個混亂掉。此離開皆總而來。是。\n\n10\n00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:25,920\n因為在10月11日韓院長跟我的\n\n11\n00:03:50,816 --> 00:04:19,619\n跟草原黨團的參與當中副院長也在場其實那天談的內容大家還好但出來之後就說破局破冷水其實那天我跟韓院長心中非常清楚協商即將開始所以隔週馬上有協商開始所以我在10月18號才寫了剛剛的那個文章但是就是大家對於所謂依法這兩個字各有解讀不同所以前天我才用了這個更簡單的引語其實這個重點只有第三點\n\n12\n00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:26,878\n就是我們建議只要同意以後不會如此要求只此一次下不為例\n\n13\n00:04:28,112 --> 00:04:53,195\n這次我們可以加點費用來解決這個問題所以等於是也加一個T字讓大家有個台階下來有個緩和的方式下來做那就這一次僵局已經造成了我們就解這一次就好了但是未來的部分還是要回歸到整個憲政跟這一次用一個特例的方式去處理它這一次還要還是要回頭來補行預算法93條的規定徵詢行政的意見那我們會做必要的\n\n14\n00:04:53,815 --> 00:04:54,876\n法律規定來\n\n15\n00:05:09,986 --> 00:05:13,870\n我認為其實不管是行政院特別是立法院都是要來解決問題啦如果你只是要否決掉而已喔這個你提出的方法我都不同意那你釋憲我也不同意那你所謂什麼所有的人這個\n\n16\n00:05:34,628 --> 00:05:37,650\n現在只要行政院提出這樣的方法,嘗試解決,那我還沒有看到朝野協商之間有沒有一個好的方法來討論。\n\n17\n00:05:53,393 --> 00:06:10,032\n但這是一種方法啦,另外裡面我看到了,院長裡面有提到啦,就所謂的仲裁,其實就是你講的,其實就是我們講的釋憲啦。釋憲也是另外一種方式嘛,就是你釋憲交由憲法法,你就要大法官來做最後的一個確定,那怎樣的,那最後的大法官的確定出來,該怎麼辦就怎麼辦嘛。\n\n18\n00:06:11,434 --> 00:06:33,472\n大法官認為是立法院違憲立法院就退回這樣的方式如果大法官會作出行政院違憲的話那當然行政院也就接受這也是一種方式但是無論如何都不應該用這樣的方式卡住整個總預算應該讓總預算持續因為這個牽扯到現在不到差不多兩個多月的時間新的年度就開始了\n\n19\n00:06:33,912 --> 00:06:57,752\n所有的縣市政府所有的重大的建設新興的建設都在等待這樣的預算我認為朝野政黨都不應該再持續拖下去我認為只要馬上開始立法院的效率還是可以完成的還是可以在時間內完成這樣我們對人民的托付就會有所交代行政院就能夠在下個年度好好的推動現在整道施政報告當中所跟大院所報告的內容\n\n20\n00:06:58,132 --> 00:07:24,313\n所以院長如果照你的的話就是以這一次的方式剛剛你提到這樣的方式來做處理嘛齁在追認後面的程序這樣處理那這個如果不可行的話那大概釋憲就是你的下一步可能的路我非常不願意真的我非常不願意不是個好的辦法不斷地必須提出釋憲不斷地提出釋憲不是個好的方法但是當行政立法陷入僵局陷入到對憲法的一個紛爭的時候那看來憲法法庭可能是最後適合的仲裁者沒錯\n\n21\n00:07:25,034 --> 00:07:26,015\n沒有一個執政團隊希望能夠用政治上的不穩定\n\n22\n00:07:53,431 --> 00:08:17,305\n來造成人民的困擾所以倒閣是憲法上面的規定但是是非常非常萬萬不得已的手段所以我昨天看到有些在野黨不斷的嗆聲這些的我認為這個都是很不恰當的就是說你用這樣的方式無意以解決問題嘛憲政有憲政僵局的政治解決方案但是那不是最佳的方案我說總有一種方法可以行得通那我們要找哪一種方法\n\n23\n00:08:17,805 --> 00:08:18,145\n沒錯,我們也會很愧對來自\n\n24\n00:08:41,667 --> 00:08:56,719\n在看我們在這裡對話的所有的國人。好,先講接下來的事情,我要回到那個,其實有一個是大林埔前村,我要先談一下,這個在2016年的時候,林全院長代表這個政府跟那時候陳局長去做道歉,然後啟動,到現在18年經過6個院長,\n\n25\n00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:10,267\n二、10月19日上午10時為國是論壇時間。三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間\n\n26\n00:09:19,392 --> 00:09:19,832\n請院長來協助加快\n\n27\n00:09:39,875 --> 00:09:48,406\n好的,我覺得當時代總統院長在擔任院長的任內,我們也對這個事情有所接觸跟了解,那後來經過幾年之後,環評,第一階段環評,環評已經決定了,那之後,\n\n28\n00:09:55,354 --> 00:10:19,771\n現在開始我想我們可以有更多的機會時間來看看是不是照這個時程進行或是當中還有什麼問題我們積極來處理從一開始的道歉到現在已經8年了代表政府道歉8年那從核定第一本的已經5年了所以我覺得時間相當長了那希望加快包括登記的程序鄉親們都在等希望早點做出選擇那早點的去思考整個未來我也希望這一塊這個\n\n29\n00:10:22,032 --> 00:10:31,186\n院長能不能指派未來有個政委來指派來盯住這樣的業務因為它涉及到除了經濟部會有其他一些相關部會的跨局處業務我也希望將來有政委能夠協助好嗎\n\n30\n00:10:32,500 --> 00:10:34,180\n高雄這幾年其實也謝謝在政府的大力支持下不管南梓、橋頭、仁武、北高雄的產業園區\n\n31\n00:10:58,410 --> 00:11:26,878\n到比較南高雄的從臨海工業區前陣科技產業園區包括到亞洲新灣區甚至在機場都有很多的投入很多建設這要非常感謝行政院跟交通部的支持那我要回到一個點其實這些重大建設高鐵也是其一個重壓於環那我上禮拜看到柯志恩委員再次的去模糊掉這個焦點我們要再次強調從2007年就在評估當時最早評估的是從左營到高雄對有機會到屏東去\n\n32\n00:11:27,958 --> 00:11:38,519\n大臺北就三個站的板橋這個臺北到南港非常好的一個效果但是當時的時候在2010年10月17號毛志國當任交通部長的時候他核定就是說\n\n33\n00:11:39,008 --> 00:11:40,809\n我只知道現在高雄車站是一個非常大\n\n34\n00:12:08,545 --> 00:12:29,694\n所以在歷史很清楚嘛歷史都留下了很清楚的記錄當時如果交通部長支持的話其實這個案子就會進到高雄車站但是他已經想得很清楚到高雄車站甚至屏東不具可行性當你這樣一講下去的時候這個案子等於就是死掉\n\n35\n00:12:30,074 --> 00:12:30,134\n院長是這樣嗎?\n\n36\n00:12:52,988 --> 00:13:07,537\n現在最有可能的方案就是進到高雄車站的方案目前我們兩個案子啦那目前大家收攏大家的意見聽起來高雄方案很像大家認為比較可行那我的想法是如果已經確定因為既然講到從左移方案是\n\n37\n00:13:08,317 --> 00:13:20,043\n二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、\n\n38\n00:13:29,747 --> 00:13:31,028\n目前我們還在收集,像前幾天都多了一票。\n\n39\n00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:15,196\n再來我請教一下除了高鐵之外機場也很重要特別是高雄機場也謝謝整個新的航廈計畫但現在這個新航廈第一期的預定要到2032年我認為太久我希望縮短到2030請加快相關的期程我們來努力加速好不好\n\n40\n00:14:15,476 --> 00:14:43,308\n另外當然航班航點的部分還是要請這個持續來增加我們這幾年看到義後在桃園在臺北的松山的部分都恢復的相當的快但是高雄作為南台灣最重要的一個國際機場甚至於新南向的一個基地我們認為這個優勢沒有被發揮出來包括甚至在新南向的航班的部分增加速度也都不如預期我們也希望院長部長持續來要求來增加這樣的一個\n\n41\n00:14:44,689 --> 00:14:58,910\n這個航班航點跟整個騎乘好不好?這個我們來努力。再要請教一下,因為華航有新購了一些客機,那我知道這些新購客機,原先多數規劃是要放在北部的,桃園的,但我認為,我也請部長能夠回去要求了好不好?\n\n42\n00:14:59,270 --> 00:14:59,450\n謝謝賴委員謝謝卓院長\n\n43\n00:15:28,912 --> 00:15:29,637\n下一位請陳亭飛委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4892\t5975\t謝主席,請卓院長請卓院長備詢\n15842\t43551\t院長辛苦了 首先還是要談其實我認為總預算其實是憲政的問題是權力分立是責任政治的問題那行政跟立法應該本以自己的憲政權責來施政我認為這個才是國家之福那現在我們的憲法的規定跟預算法的規定其實都非常的清楚那這個院長後面這樣的僵局怎麼解決你怎麼看\n45421\t61747\t謝謝委員讓我再度有機會來說出我心裡從一開始到今天為止始終如一的一個想法只有一種想法就只能我在上一次的臉書的文章所說的其實行政院只有一個立場只有一個堅持\n62927\t77865\t就是以後編列預算一定要按照憲法70條的精神,預算法93條的規定,如果立法院在審查預算的時候有增加稅出減少稅入,一定要遵循行政院的意見。\n78866\t105558\t同時要指出資金彌補資金的來源必要的時候還要進行必要的修法如果能夠進行這樣的程序兩院之間互相尊重毫無問題院長提出一個很關鍵性的問題就過去以來有的話通常也都是行政院其實是認可的也支持的所以才能夠進行但行政院有所疑慮要負這個政治責任的其實最後是行政院提出來任何\n106098\t132366\t那國家的資源有限下的時候一定要做一些適度一些調配跟整理那如果現在26億可以不經行政院的同意就強行的要求的話那接下來260億那可能更多的經費那國家的財政怎麼樣來運作所以我認為這個是一個憲政的而且作為要負起總的政治責任的其實行政院因為人民最後救者的是行政院行政院同意而支持而做的這個是行政院要負起責任所以我認為\n133306\t157666\t每個政黨都有機會成為執政黨,都有機會成為國會的多數黨,但是應該把這個行政和立法的權責確立清楚,我任何國家才能長治久安,院長同意這樣的看法嗎?完全沒錯,如果履行剛剛的程序,兩院之間互相尊重,絕對沒有問題。同時,大法官4次391號,他寫得非常清楚,無論是審議、審查、審議或是法律案,\n159525\t176745\t涉及施政計畫內容的變動或調整,就算你預算項目移動或追加,非常重要,亦導致政策成敗無所歸屬,責任政治難以確立,有違行政權、立法權分立。\n178472\t203699\t應該各本所施之制衡原理,因為憲法所不許。 憲法391非常,四字391非常清楚寫到這一頁。所以這個其實非常清楚,現在院長所堅持的也不是只有你而已,其實堅持的是一套制度啦,不然這個東西,惡例一旦延續下去,每次都可以這樣做的話,那大概整個責任政治會混亂掉,同時間整個行政立法的體系會整個混亂掉。此離開皆總而來。 是。\n205520\t205920\t因為在10月11日韓院長跟我的\n230816\t259619\t跟草原黨團的參與當中副院長也在場其實那天談的內容大家還好但出來之後就說破局破冷水其實那天我跟韓院長心中非常清楚協商即將開始所以隔週馬上有協商開始所以我在10月18號才寫了剛剛的那個文章但是就是大家對於所謂依法這兩個字各有解讀不同所以前天我才用了這個更簡單的引語其實這個重點只有第三點\n260640\t266878\t就是我們建議只要同意以後不會如此要求 只此一次下不為例\n268112\t293195\t這次我們可以加點費用來解決這個問題所以等於是也加一個T字讓大家有個台階下來有個緩和的方式下來做那就這一次僵局已經造成了我們就解這一次就好了但是未來的部分還是要回歸到整個憲政跟這一次用一個特例的方式去處理它這一次還要還是要回頭來補行預算法93條的規定徵詢行政的意見那我們會做必要的\n293815\t294876\t法律規定來\n309986\t313870\t我認為其實不管是行政院特別是立法院都是要來解決問題啦如果你只是要否決掉而已喔這個你提出的方法我都不同意那你釋憲我也不同意那你所謂什麼所有的人這個\n334628\t337650\t現在只要行政院提出這樣的方法,嘗試解決,那我還沒有看到朝野協商之間有沒有一個好的方法來討論。\n353393\t370032\t但這是一種方法啦,另外裡面我看到了,院長裡面有提到啦,就所謂的仲裁,其實就是你講的,其實就是我們講的釋憲啦。釋憲也是另外一種方式嘛,就是你釋憲交由憲法法,你就要大法官來做最後的一個確定,那怎樣的,那最後的大法官的確定出來,該怎麼辦就怎麼辦嘛。\n371434\t393472\t大法官認為是立法院違憲立法院就退回這樣的方式如果大法官會作出行政院違憲的話那當然行政院也就接受這也是一種方式但是無論如何都不應該用這樣的方式卡住整個總預算應該讓總預算持續因為這個牽扯到現在不到差不多兩個多月的時間新的年度就開始了\n393912\t417752\t所有的縣市政府所有的重大的建設新興的建設都在等待這樣的預算我認為朝野政黨都不應該再持續拖下去我認為只要馬上開始立法院的效率還是可以完成的還是可以在時間內完成這樣我們對人民的托付就會有所交代行政院就能夠在下個年度好好的推動現在整道施政報告當中所跟大院所報告的內容\n418132\t444313\t所以院長如果照你的的話就是以這一次的方式剛剛你提到這樣的方式來做處理嘛齁在追認後面的程序這樣處理那這個如果不可行的話那大概釋憲就是你的下一步可能的路我非常不願意真的我非常不願意不是個好的辦法不斷地必須提出釋憲不斷地提出釋憲不是個好的方法但是當行政立法陷入僵局陷入到對憲法的一個紛爭的時候那看來憲法法庭可能是最後適合的仲裁者沒錯\n445034\t446015\t沒有一個執政團隊希望能夠用政治上的不穩定\n473431\t497305\t來造成人民的困擾所以倒閣是憲法上面的規定但是是非常非常萬萬不得已的手段所以我昨天看到有些在野黨不斷的嗆聲這些的我認為這個都是很不恰當的就是說你用這樣的方式無意以解決問題嘛憲政有憲政僵局的政治解決方案但是那不是最佳的方案我說總有一種方法可以行得通那我們要找哪一種方法\n497805\t498145\t沒錯,我們也會很愧對來自\n521667\t536719\t在看我們在這裡對話的所有的國人。好,先講接下來的事情,我要回到那個,其實有一個是大林埔前村,我要先談一下,這個在2016年的時候,林全院長代表這個政府跟那時候陳局長去做道歉,然後啟動,到現在18年經過6個院長,\n539000\t550267\t二、10月19日上午10時為國是論壇時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間\n559392\t559832\t請院長來協助加快\n579875\t588406\t好的,我覺得當時代總統院長在擔任院長的任內,我們也對這個事情有所接觸跟了解,那後來經過幾年之後,環評,第一階段環評,環評已經決定了,那之後,\n595354\t619771\t現在開始我想我們可以有更多的機會時間來看看是不是照這個時程進行或是當中還有什麼問題我們積極來處理從一開始的道歉到現在已經8年了代表政府道歉8年那從核定第一本的已經5年了所以我覺得時間相當長了那希望加快包括登記的程序鄉親們都在等希望早點做出選擇那早點的去思考整個未來我也希望這一塊這個\n622032\t631186\t院長能不能指派未來有個政委來指派來盯住這樣的業務因為它涉及到除了經濟部會有其他一些相關部會的跨局處業務我也希望將來有政委能夠協助好嗎\n632500\t634180\t高雄這幾年其實也謝謝在政府的大力支持下不管南梓、橋頭、仁武、北高雄的產業園區\n658410\t686878\t到比較南高雄的從臨海工業區前陣科技產業園區包括到亞洲新灣區甚至在機場都有很多的投入很多建設這要非常感謝行政院跟交通部的支持那我要回到一個點其實這些重大建設高鐵也是其一個重壓於環那我上禮拜看到柯志恩委員再次的去模糊掉這個焦點我們要再次強調從2007年就在評估當時最早評估的是從左營到高雄對有機會到屏東去\n687958\t698519\t大臺北就三個站的板橋這個臺北到南港非常好的一個效果但是當時的時候在2010年10月17號毛志國當任交通部長的時候他核定就是說\n699008\t700809\t我只知道現在高雄車站是一個非常大\n728545\t749694\t所以在歷史很清楚嘛歷史都留下了很清楚的記錄當時如果交通部長支持的話其實這個案子就會進到高雄車站但是他已經想得很清楚到高雄車站甚至屏東不具可行性當你這樣一講下去的時候這個案子等於就是死掉\n750074\t750134\t院長是這樣嗎?\n772988\t787537\t現在最有可能的方案就是進到高雄車站的方案目前我們兩個案子啦那目前大家收攏大家的意見聽起來高雄方案很像大家認為比較可行那我的想法是如果已經確定因為既然講到從左移方案是\n788317\t800043\t二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、\n809747\t811028\t目前我們還在收集,像前幾天都多了一票。\n838840\t855196\t再來我請教一下除了高鐵之外機場也很重要特別是高雄機場也謝謝整個新的航廈計畫但現在這個新航廈第一期的預定要到2032年我認為太久我希望縮短到2030請加快相關的期程我們來努力加速好不好\n855476\t883308\t另外當然航班航點的部分還是要請這個持續來增加我們這幾年看到義後在桃園在臺北的松山的部分都恢復的相當的快但是高雄作為南台灣最重要的一個國際機場甚至於新南向的一個基地我們認為這個優勢沒有被發揮出來包括甚至在新南向的航班的部分增加速度也都不如預期我們也希望院長部長持續來要求來增加這樣的一個\n884689\t898910\t這個航班航點跟整個騎乘好不好?這個我們來努力。再要請教一下,因為華航有新購了一些客機,那我知道這些新購客機,原先多數規劃是要放在北部的,桃園的,但我認為,我也請部長能夠回去要求了好不好?\n899270\t899450\t謝謝賴委員謝謝卓院長\n928912\t929637\t下一位請陳亭飛委員\n","txt":"謝主席,請卓院長請卓院長備詢\n院長辛苦了 首先還是要談其實我認為總預算其實是憲政的問題是權力分立是責任政治的問題那行政跟立法應該本以自己的憲政權責來施政我認為這個才是國家之福那現在我們的憲法的規定跟預算法的規定其實都非常的清楚那這個院長後面這樣的僵局怎麼解決你怎麼看\n謝謝委員讓我再度有機會來說出我心裡從一開始到今天為止始終如一的一個想法只有一種想法就只能我在上一次的臉書的文章所說的其實行政院只有一個立場只有一個堅持\n就是以後編列預算一定要按照憲法70條的精神,預算法93條的規定,如果立法院在審查預算的時候有增加稅出減少稅入,一定要遵循行政院的意見。\n同時要指出資金彌補資金的來源必要的時候還要進行必要的修法如果能夠進行這樣的程序兩院之間互相尊重毫無問題院長提出一個很關鍵性的問題就過去以來有的話通常也都是行政院其實是認可的也支持的所以才能夠進行但行政院有所疑慮要負這個政治責任的其實最後是行政院提出來任何\n那國家的資源有限下的時候一定要做一些適度一些調配跟整理那如果現在26億可以不經行政院的同意就強行的要求的話那接下來260億那可能更多的經費那國家的財政怎麼樣來運作所以我認為這個是一個憲政的而且作為要負起總的政治責任的其實行政院因為人民最後救者的是行政院行政院同意而支持而做的這個是行政院要負起責任所以我認為\n每個政黨都有機會成為執政黨,都有機會成為國會的多數黨,但是應該把這個行政和立法的權責確立清楚,我任何國家才能長治久安,院長同意這樣的看法嗎?完全沒錯,如果履行剛剛的程序,兩院之間互相尊重,絕對沒有問題。同時,大法官4次391號,他寫得非常清楚,無論是審議、審查、審議或是法律案,\n涉及施政計畫內容的變動或調整,就算你預算項目移動或追加,非常重要,亦導致政策成敗無所歸屬,責任政治難以確立,有違行政權、立法權分立。\n應該各本所施之制衡原理,因為憲法所不許。 憲法391非常,四字391非常清楚寫到這一頁。所以這個其實非常清楚,現在院長所堅持的也不是只有你而已,其實堅持的是一套制度啦,不然這個東西,惡例一旦延續下去,每次都可以這樣做的話,那大概整個責任政治會混亂掉,同時間整個行政立法的體系會整個混亂掉。此離開皆總而來。 是。\n因為在10月11日韓院長跟我的\n跟草原黨團的參與當中副院長也在場其實那天談的內容大家還好但出來之後就說破局破冷水其實那天我跟韓院長心中非常清楚協商即將開始所以隔週馬上有協商開始所以我在10月18號才寫了剛剛的那個文章但是就是大家對於所謂依法這兩個字各有解讀不同所以前天我才用了這個更簡單的引語其實這個重點只有第三點\n就是我們建議只要同意以後不會如此要求 只此一次下不為例\n這次我們可以加點費用來解決這個問題所以等於是也加一個T字讓大家有個台階下來有個緩和的方式下來做那就這一次僵局已經造成了我們就解這一次就好了但是未來的部分還是要回歸到整個憲政跟這一次用一個特例的方式去處理它這一次還要還是要回頭來補行預算法93條的規定徵詢行政的意見那我們會做必要的\n法律規定來\n我認為其實不管是行政院特別是立法院都是要來解決問題啦如果你只是要否決掉而已喔這個你提出的方法我都不同意那你釋憲我也不同意那你所謂什麼所有的人這個\n現在只要行政院提出這樣的方法,嘗試解決,那我還沒有看到朝野協商之間有沒有一個好的方法來討論。\n但這是一種方法啦,另外裡面我看到了,院長裡面有提到啦,就所謂的仲裁,其實就是你講的,其實就是我們講的釋憲啦。釋憲也是另外一種方式嘛,就是你釋憲交由憲法法,你就要大法官來做最後的一個確定,那怎樣的,那最後的大法官的確定出來,該怎麼辦就怎麼辦嘛。\n大法官認為是立法院違憲立法院就退回這樣的方式如果大法官會作出行政院違憲的話那當然行政院也就接受這也是一種方式但是無論如何都不應該用這樣的方式卡住整個總預算應該讓總預算持續因為這個牽扯到現在不到差不多兩個多月的時間新的年度就開始了\n所有的縣市政府所有的重大的建設新興的建設都在等待這樣的預算我認為朝野政黨都不應該再持續拖下去我認為只要馬上開始立法院的效率還是可以完成的還是可以在時間內完成這樣我們對人民的托付就會有所交代行政院就能夠在下個年度好好的推動現在整道施政報告當中所跟大院所報告的內容\n所以院長如果照你的的話就是以這一次的方式剛剛你提到這樣的方式來做處理嘛齁在追認後面的程序這樣處理那這個如果不可行的話那大概釋憲就是你的下一步可能的路我非常不願意真的我非常不願意不是個好的辦法不斷地必須提出釋憲不斷地提出釋憲不是個好的方法但是當行政立法陷入僵局陷入到對憲法的一個紛爭的時候那看來憲法法庭可能是最後適合的仲裁者沒錯\n沒有一個執政團隊希望能夠用政治上的不穩定\n來造成人民的困擾所以倒閣是憲法上面的規定但是是非常非常萬萬不得已的手段所以我昨天看到有些在野黨不斷的嗆聲這些的我認為這個都是很不恰當的就是說你用這樣的方式無意以解決問題嘛憲政有憲政僵局的政治解決方案但是那不是最佳的方案我說總有一種方法可以行得通那我們要找哪一種方法\n沒錯,我們也會很愧對來自\n在看我們在這裡對話的所有的國人。好,先講接下來的事情,我要回到那個,其實有一個是大林埔前村,我要先談一下,這個在2016年的時候,林全院長代表這個政府跟那時候陳局長去做道歉,然後啟動,到現在18年經過6個院長,\n二、10月19日上午10時為國是論壇時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間\n請院長來協助加快\n好的,我覺得當時代總統院長在擔任院長的任內,我們也對這個事情有所接觸跟了解,那後來經過幾年之後,環評,第一階段環評,環評已經決定了,那之後,\n現在開始我想我們可以有更多的機會時間來看看是不是照這個時程進行或是當中還有什麼問題我們積極來處理從一開始的道歉到現在已經8年了代表政府道歉8年那從核定第一本的已經5年了所以我覺得時間相當長了那希望加快包括登記的程序鄉親們都在等希望早點做出選擇那早點的去思考整個未來我也希望這一塊這個\n院長能不能指派未來有個政委來指派來盯住這樣的業務因為它涉及到除了經濟部會有其他一些相關部會的跨局處業務我也希望將來有政委能夠協助好嗎\n高雄這幾年其實也謝謝在政府的大力支持下不管南梓、橋頭、仁武、北高雄的產業園區\n到比較南高雄的從臨海工業區前陣科技產業園區包括到亞洲新灣區甚至在機場都有很多的投入很多建設這要非常感謝行政院跟交通部的支持那我要回到一個點其實這些重大建設高鐵也是其一個重壓於環那我上禮拜看到柯志恩委員再次的去模糊掉這個焦點我們要再次強調從2007年就在評估當時最早評估的是從左營到高雄對有機會到屏東去\n大臺北就三個站的板橋這個臺北到南港非常好的一個效果但是當時的時候在2010年10月17號毛志國當任交通部長的時候他核定就是說\n我只知道現在高雄車站是一個非常大\n所以在歷史很清楚嘛歷史都留下了很清楚的記錄當時如果交通部長支持的話其實這個案子就會進到高雄車站但是他已經想得很清楚到高雄車站甚至屏東不具可行性當你這樣一講下去的時候這個案子等於就是死掉\n院長是這樣嗎?\n現在最有可能的方案就是進到高雄車站的方案目前我們兩個案子啦那目前大家收攏大家的意見聽起來高雄方案很像大家認為比較可行那我的想法是如果已經確定因為既然講到從左移方案是\n二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、\n目前我們還在收集,像前幾天都多了一票。\n再來我請教一下除了高鐵之外機場也很重要特別是高雄機場也謝謝整個新的航廈計畫但現在這個新航廈第一期的預定要到2032年我認為太久我希望縮短到2030請加快相關的期程我們來努力加速好不好\n另外當然航班航點的部分還是要請這個持續來增加我們這幾年看到義後在桃園在臺北的松山的部分都恢復的相當的快但是高雄作為南台灣最重要的一個國際機場甚至於新南向的一個基地我們認為這個優勢沒有被發揮出來包括甚至在新南向的航班的部分增加速度也都不如預期我們也希望院長部長持續來要求來增加這樣的一個\n這個航班航點跟整個騎乘好不好?這個我們來努力。再要請教一下,因為華航有新購了一些客機,那我知道這些新購客機,原先多數規劃是要放在北部的,桃園的,但我認為,我也請部長能夠回去要求了好不好?\n謝謝賴委員謝謝卓院長\n下一位請陳亭飛委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.892 --> 00:05.975\n謝主席,請卓院長請卓院長備詢\n\n00:15.842 --> 00:43.551\n院長辛苦了首先還是要談其實我認為總預算其實是憲政的問題是權力分立是責任政治的問題那行政跟立法應該本以自己的憲政權責來施政我認為這個才是國家之福那現在我們的憲法的規定跟預算法的規定其實都非常的清楚那這個院長後面這樣的僵局怎麼解決你怎麼看\n\n00:45.421 --> 01:01.747\n謝謝委員讓我再度有機會來說出我心裡從一開始到今天為止始終如一的一個想法只有一種想法就只能我在上一次的臉書的文章所說的其實行政院只有一個立場只有一個堅持\n\n01:02.927 --> 01:17.865\n就是以後編列預算一定要按照憲法70條的精神,預算法93條的規定,如果立法院在審查預算的時候有增加稅出減少稅入,一定要遵循行政院的意見。\n\n01:18.866 --> 01:45.558\n同時要指出資金彌補資金的來源必要的時候還要進行必要的修法如果能夠進行這樣的程序兩院之間互相尊重毫無問題院長提出一個很關鍵性的問題就過去以來有的話通常也都是行政院其實是認可的也支持的所以才能夠進行但行政院有所疑慮要負這個政治責任的其實最後是行政院提出來任何\n\n01:46.098 --> 02:12.366\n那國家的資源有限下的時候一定要做一些適度一些調配跟整理那如果現在26億可以不經行政院的同意就強行的要求的話那接下來260億那可能更多的經費那國家的財政怎麼樣來運作所以我認為這個是一個憲政的而且作為要負起總的政治責任的其實行政院因為人民最後救者的是行政院行政院同意而支持而做的這個是行政院要負起責任所以我認為\n\n02:13.306 --> 02:37.666\n每個政黨都有機會成為執政黨,都有機會成為國會的多數黨,但是應該把這個行政和立法的權責確立清楚,我任何國家才能長治久安,院長同意這樣的看法嗎?完全沒錯,如果履行剛剛的程序,兩院之間互相尊重,絕對沒有問題。同時,大法官4次391號,他寫得非常清楚,無論是審議、審查、審議或是法律案,\n\n02:39.525 --> 02:56.745\n涉及施政計畫內容的變動或調整,就算你預算項目移動或追加,非常重要,亦導致政策成敗無所歸屬,責任政治難以確立,有違行政權、立法權分立。\n\n02:58.472 --> 03:23.699\n應該各本所施之制衡原理,因為憲法所不許。憲法391非常,四字391非常清楚寫到這一頁。所以這個其實非常清楚,現在院長所堅持的也不是只有你而已,其實堅持的是一套制度啦,不然這個東西,惡例一旦延續下去,每次都可以這樣做的話,那大概整個責任政治會混亂掉,同時間整個行政立法的體系會整個混亂掉。此離開皆總而來。是。\n\n03:25.520 --> 03:25.920\n因為在10月11日韓院長跟我的\n\n03:50.816 --> 04:19.619\n跟草原黨團的參與當中副院長也在場其實那天談的內容大家還好但出來之後就說破局破冷水其實那天我跟韓院長心中非常清楚協商即將開始所以隔週馬上有協商開始所以我在10月18號才寫了剛剛的那個文章但是就是大家對於所謂依法這兩個字各有解讀不同所以前天我才用了這個更簡單的引語其實這個重點只有第三點\n\n04:20.640 --> 04:26.878\n就是我們建議只要同意以後不會如此要求只此一次下不為例\n\n04:28.112 --> 04:53.195\n這次我們可以加點費用來解決這個問題所以等於是也加一個T字讓大家有個台階下來有個緩和的方式下來做那就這一次僵局已經造成了我們就解這一次就好了但是未來的部分還是要回歸到整個憲政跟這一次用一個特例的方式去處理它這一次還要還是要回頭來補行預算法93條的規定徵詢行政的意見那我們會做必要的\n\n04:53.815 --> 04:54.876\n法律規定來\n\n05:09.986 --> 05:13.870\n我認為其實不管是行政院特別是立法院都是要來解決問題啦如果你只是要否決掉而已喔這個你提出的方法我都不同意那你釋憲我也不同意那你所謂什麼所有的人這個\n\n05:34.628 --> 05:37.650\n現在只要行政院提出這樣的方法,嘗試解決,那我還沒有看到朝野協商之間有沒有一個好的方法來討論。\n\n05:53.393 --> 06:10.032\n但這是一種方法啦,另外裡面我看到了,院長裡面有提到啦,就所謂的仲裁,其實就是你講的,其實就是我們講的釋憲啦。釋憲也是另外一種方式嘛,就是你釋憲交由憲法法,你就要大法官來做最後的一個確定,那怎樣的,那最後的大法官的確定出來,該怎麼辦就怎麼辦嘛。\n\n06:11.434 --> 06:33.472\n大法官認為是立法院違憲立法院就退回這樣的方式如果大法官會作出行政院違憲的話那當然行政院也就接受這也是一種方式但是無論如何都不應該用這樣的方式卡住整個總預算應該讓總預算持續因為這個牽扯到現在不到差不多兩個多月的時間新的年度就開始了\n\n06:33.912 --> 06:57.752\n所有的縣市政府所有的重大的建設新興的建設都在等待這樣的預算我認為朝野政黨都不應該再持續拖下去我認為只要馬上開始立法院的效率還是可以完成的還是可以在時間內完成這樣我們對人民的托付就會有所交代行政院就能夠在下個年度好好的推動現在整道施政報告當中所跟大院所報告的內容\n\n06:58.132 --> 07:24.313\n所以院長如果照你的的話就是以這一次的方式剛剛你提到這樣的方式來做處理嘛齁在追認後面的程序這樣處理那這個如果不可行的話那大概釋憲就是你的下一步可能的路我非常不願意真的我非常不願意不是個好的辦法不斷地必須提出釋憲不斷地提出釋憲不是個好的方法但是當行政立法陷入僵局陷入到對憲法的一個紛爭的時候那看來憲法法庭可能是最後適合的仲裁者沒錯\n\n07:25.034 --> 07:26.015\n沒有一個執政團隊希望能夠用政治上的不穩定\n\n07:53.431 --> 08:17.305\n來造成人民的困擾所以倒閣是憲法上面的規定但是是非常非常萬萬不得已的手段所以我昨天看到有些在野黨不斷的嗆聲這些的我認為這個都是很不恰當的就是說你用這樣的方式無意以解決問題嘛憲政有憲政僵局的政治解決方案但是那不是最佳的方案我說總有一種方法可以行得通那我們要找哪一種方法\n\n08:17.805 --> 08:18.145\n沒錯,我們也會很愧對來自\n\n08:41.667 --> 08:56.719\n在看我們在這裡對話的所有的國人。好,先講接下來的事情,我要回到那個,其實有一個是大林埔前村,我要先談一下,這個在2016年的時候,林全院長代表這個政府跟那時候陳局長去做道歉,然後啟動,到現在18年經過6個院長,\n\n08:59.000 --> 09:10.267\n二、10月19日上午10時為國是論壇時間。三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間\n\n09:19.392 --> 09:19.832\n請院長來協助加快\n\n09:39.875 --> 09:48.406\n好的,我覺得當時代總統院長在擔任院長的任內,我們也對這個事情有所接觸跟了解,那後來經過幾年之後,環評,第一階段環評,環評已經決定了,那之後,\n\n09:55.354 --> 10:19.771\n現在開始我想我們可以有更多的機會時間來看看是不是照這個時程進行或是當中還有什麼問題我們積極來處理從一開始的道歉到現在已經8年了代表政府道歉8年那從核定第一本的已經5年了所以我覺得時間相當長了那希望加快包括登記的程序鄉親們都在等希望早點做出選擇那早點的去思考整個未來我也希望這一塊這個\n\n10:22.032 --> 10:31.186\n院長能不能指派未來有個政委來指派來盯住這樣的業務因為它涉及到除了經濟部會有其他一些相關部會的跨局處業務我也希望將來有政委能夠協助好嗎\n\n10:32.500 --> 10:34.180\n高雄這幾年其實也謝謝在政府的大力支持下不管南梓、橋頭、仁武、北高雄的產業園區\n\n10:58.410 --> 11:26.878\n到比較南高雄的從臨海工業區前陣科技產業園區包括到亞洲新灣區甚至在機場都有很多的投入很多建設這要非常感謝行政院跟交通部的支持那我要回到一個點其實這些重大建設高鐵也是其一個重壓於環那我上禮拜看到柯志恩委員再次的去模糊掉這個焦點我們要再次強調從2007年就在評估當時最早評估的是從左營到高雄對有機會到屏東去\n\n11:27.958 --> 11:38.519\n大臺北就三個站的板橋這個臺北到南港非常好的一個效果但是當時的時候在2010年10月17號毛志國當任交通部長的時候他核定就是說\n\n11:39.008 --> 11:40.809\n我只知道現在高雄車站是一個非常大\n\n12:08.545 --> 12:29.694\n所以在歷史很清楚嘛歷史都留下了很清楚的記錄當時如果交通部長支持的話其實這個案子就會進到高雄車站但是他已經想得很清楚到高雄車站甚至屏東不具可行性當你這樣一講下去的時候這個案子等於就是死掉\n\n12:30.074 --> 12:30.134\n院長是這樣嗎?\n\n12:52.988 --> 13:07.537\n現在最有可能的方案就是進到高雄車站的方案目前我們兩個案子啦那目前大家收攏大家的意見聽起來高雄方案很像大家認為比較可行那我的想法是如果已經確定因為既然講到從左移方案是\n\n13:08.317 --> 13:20.043\n二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、\n\n13:29.747 --> 13:31.028\n目前我們還在收集,像前幾天都多了一票。\n\n13:58.840 --> 14:15.196\n再來我請教一下除了高鐵之外機場也很重要特別是高雄機場也謝謝整個新的航廈計畫但現在這個新航廈第一期的預定要到2032年我認為太久我希望縮短到2030請加快相關的期程我們來努力加速好不好\n\n14:15.476 --> 14:43.308\n另外當然航班航點的部分還是要請這個持續來增加我們這幾年看到義後在桃園在臺北的松山的部分都恢復的相當的快但是高雄作為南台灣最重要的一個國際機場甚至於新南向的一個基地我們認為這個優勢沒有被發揮出來包括甚至在新南向的航班的部分增加速度也都不如預期我們也希望院長部長持續來要求來增加這樣的一個\n\n14:44.689 --> 14:58.910\n這個航班航點跟整個騎乘好不好?這個我們來努力。再要請教一下,因為華航有新購了一些客機,那我知道這些新購客機,原先多數規劃是要放在北部的,桃園的,但我認為,我也請部長能夠回去要求了好不好?\n\n14:59.270 --> 14:59.450\n謝謝賴委員謝謝卓院長\n\n15:28.912 --> 15:29.637\n下一位請陳亭飛委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.892,"end":5.975,"text":"謝主席,請卓院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":15.842,"end":43.551,"text":"院長辛苦了 首先還是要談其實我認為總預算其實是憲政的問題是權力分立是責任政治的問題那行政跟立法應該本以自己的憲政權責來施政我認為這個才是國家之福那現在我們的憲法的規定跟預算法的規定其實都非常的清楚那這個院長後面這樣的僵局怎麼解決你怎麼看"},{"start":45.421,"end":61.747,"text":"謝謝委員讓我再度有機會來說出我心裡從一開始到今天為止始終如一的一個想法只有一種想法就只能我在上一次的臉書的文章所說的其實行政院只有一個立場只有一個堅持"},{"start":62.927,"end":77.865,"text":"就是以後編列預算一定要按照憲法70條的精神,預算法93條的規定,如果立法院在審查預算的時候有增加稅出減少稅入,一定要遵循行政院的意見。"},{"start":78.866,"end":105.558,"text":"同時要指出資金彌補資金的來源必要的時候還要進行必要的修法如果能夠進行這樣的程序兩院之間互相尊重毫無問題院長提出一個很關鍵性的問題就過去以來有的話通常也都是行政院其實是認可的也支持的所以才能夠進行但行政院有所疑慮要負這個政治責任的其實最後是行政院提出來任何"},{"start":106.098,"end":132.366,"text":"那國家的資源有限下的時候一定要做一些適度一些調配跟整理那如果現在26億可以不經行政院的同意就強行的要求的話那接下來260億那可能更多的經費那國家的財政怎麼樣來運作所以我認為這個是一個憲政的而且作為要負起總的政治責任的其實行政院因為人民最後救者的是行政院行政院同意而支持而做的這個是行政院要負起責任所以我認為"},{"start":133.306,"end":157.666,"text":"每個政黨都有機會成為執政黨,都有機會成為國會的多數黨,但是應該把這個行政和立法的權責確立清楚,我任何國家才能長治久安,院長同意這樣的看法嗎?完全沒錯,如果履行剛剛的程序,兩院之間互相尊重,絕對沒有問題。同時,大法官4次391號,他寫得非常清楚,無論是審議、審查、審議或是法律案,"},{"start":159.525,"end":176.745,"text":"涉及施政計畫內容的變動或調整,就算你預算項目移動或追加,非常重要,亦導致政策成敗無所歸屬,責任政治難以確立,有違行政權、立法權分立。"},{"start":178.472,"end":203.699,"text":"應該各本所施之制衡原理,因為憲法所不許。 憲法391非常,四字391非常清楚寫到這一頁。所以這個其實非常清楚,現在院長所堅持的也不是只有你而已,其實堅持的是一套制度啦,不然這個東西,惡例一旦延續下去,每次都可以這樣做的話,那大概整個責任政治會混亂掉,同時間整個行政立法的體系會整個混亂掉。此離開皆總而來。 是。"},{"start":205.52,"end":205.92,"text":"因為在10月11日韓院長跟我的"},{"start":230.816,"end":259.619,"text":"跟草原黨團的參與當中副院長也在場其實那天談的內容大家還好但出來之後就說破局破冷水其實那天我跟韓院長心中非常清楚協商即將開始所以隔週馬上有協商開始所以我在10月18號才寫了剛剛的那個文章但是就是大家對於所謂依法這兩個字各有解讀不同所以前天我才用了這個更簡單的引語其實這個重點只有第三點"},{"start":260.64,"end":266.878,"text":"就是我們建議只要同意以後不會如此要求 只此一次下不為例"},{"start":268.112,"end":293.195,"text":"這次我們可以加點費用來解決這個問題所以等於是也加一個T字讓大家有個台階下來有個緩和的方式下來做那就這一次僵局已經造成了我們就解這一次就好了但是未來的部分還是要回歸到整個憲政跟這一次用一個特例的方式去處理它這一次還要還是要回頭來補行預算法93條的規定徵詢行政的意見那我們會做必要的"},{"start":293.815,"end":294.876,"text":"法律規定來"},{"start":309.986,"end":313.87,"text":"我認為其實不管是行政院特別是立法院都是要來解決問題啦如果你只是要否決掉而已喔這個你提出的方法我都不同意那你釋憲我也不同意那你所謂什麼所有的人這個"},{"start":334.628,"end":337.65,"text":"現在只要行政院提出這樣的方法,嘗試解決,那我還沒有看到朝野協商之間有沒有一個好的方法來討論。"},{"start":353.393,"end":370.032,"text":"但這是一種方法啦,另外裡面我看到了,院長裡面有提到啦,就所謂的仲裁,其實就是你講的,其實就是我們講的釋憲啦。釋憲也是另外一種方式嘛,就是你釋憲交由憲法法,你就要大法官來做最後的一個確定,那怎樣的,那最後的大法官的確定出來,該怎麼辦就怎麼辦嘛。"},{"start":371.434,"end":393.472,"text":"大法官認為是立法院違憲立法院就退回這樣的方式如果大法官會作出行政院違憲的話那當然行政院也就接受這也是一種方式但是無論如何都不應該用這樣的方式卡住整個總預算應該讓總預算持續因為這個牽扯到現在不到差不多兩個多月的時間新的年度就開始了"},{"start":393.912,"end":417.752,"text":"所有的縣市政府所有的重大的建設新興的建設都在等待這樣的預算我認為朝野政黨都不應該再持續拖下去我認為只要馬上開始立法院的效率還是可以完成的還是可以在時間內完成這樣我們對人民的托付就會有所交代行政院就能夠在下個年度好好的推動現在整道施政報告當中所跟大院所報告的內容"},{"start":418.132,"end":444.313,"text":"所以院長如果照你的的話就是以這一次的方式剛剛你提到這樣的方式來做處理嘛齁在追認後面的程序這樣處理那這個如果不可行的話那大概釋憲就是你的下一步可能的路我非常不願意真的我非常不願意不是個好的辦法不斷地必須提出釋憲不斷地提出釋憲不是個好的方法但是當行政立法陷入僵局陷入到對憲法的一個紛爭的時候那看來憲法法庭可能是最後適合的仲裁者沒錯"},{"start":445.034,"end":446.015,"text":"沒有一個執政團隊希望能夠用政治上的不穩定"},{"start":473.431,"end":497.305,"text":"來造成人民的困擾所以倒閣是憲法上面的規定但是是非常非常萬萬不得已的手段所以我昨天看到有些在野黨不斷的嗆聲這些的我認為這個都是很不恰當的就是說你用這樣的方式無意以解決問題嘛憲政有憲政僵局的政治解決方案但是那不是最佳的方案我說總有一種方法可以行得通那我們要找哪一種方法"},{"start":497.805,"end":498.145,"text":"沒錯,我們也會很愧對來自"},{"start":521.667,"end":536.719,"text":"在看我們在這裡對話的所有的國人。好,先講接下來的事情,我要回到那個,其實有一個是大林埔前村,我要先談一下,這個在2016年的時候,林全院長代表這個政府跟那時候陳局長去做道歉,然後啟動,到現在18年經過6個院長,"},{"start":539,"end":550.267,"text":"二、10月19日上午10時為國是論壇時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間"},{"start":559.392,"end":559.832,"text":"請院長來協助加快"},{"start":579.875,"end":588.406,"text":"好的,我覺得當時代總統院長在擔任院長的任內,我們也對這個事情有所接觸跟了解,那後來經過幾年之後,環評,第一階段環評,環評已經決定了,那之後,"},{"start":595.354,"end":619.771,"text":"現在開始我想我們可以有更多的機會時間來看看是不是照這個時程進行或是當中還有什麼問題我們積極來處理從一開始的道歉到現在已經8年了代表政府道歉8年那從核定第一本的已經5年了所以我覺得時間相當長了那希望加快包括登記的程序鄉親們都在等希望早點做出選擇那早點的去思考整個未來我也希望這一塊這個"},{"start":622.032,"end":631.186,"text":"院長能不能指派未來有個政委來指派來盯住這樣的業務因為它涉及到除了經濟部會有其他一些相關部會的跨局處業務我也希望將來有政委能夠協助好嗎"},{"start":632.5,"end":634.18,"text":"高雄這幾年其實也謝謝在政府的大力支持下不管南梓、橋頭、仁武、北高雄的產業園區"},{"start":658.41,"end":686.878,"text":"到比較南高雄的從臨海工業區前陣科技產業園區包括到亞洲新灣區甚至在機場都有很多的投入很多建設這要非常感謝行政院跟交通部的支持那我要回到一個點其實這些重大建設高鐵也是其一個重壓於環那我上禮拜看到柯志恩委員再次的去模糊掉這個焦點我們要再次強調從2007年就在評估當時最早評估的是從左營到高雄對有機會到屏東去"},{"start":687.958,"end":698.519,"text":"大臺北就三個站的板橋這個臺北到南港非常好的一個效果但是當時的時候在2010年10月17號毛志國當任交通部長的時候他核定就是說"},{"start":699.008,"end":700.809,"text":"我只知道現在高雄車站是一個非常大"},{"start":728.545,"end":749.694,"text":"所以在歷史很清楚嘛歷史都留下了很清楚的記錄當時如果交通部長支持的話其實這個案子就會進到高雄車站但是他已經想得很清楚到高雄車站甚至屏東不具可行性當你這樣一講下去的時候這個案子等於就是死掉"},{"start":750.074,"end":750.134,"text":"院長是這樣嗎?"},{"start":772.988,"end":787.537,"text":"現在最有可能的方案就是進到高雄車站的方案目前我們兩個案子啦那目前大家收攏大家的意見聽起來高雄方案很像大家認為比較可行那我的想法是如果已經確定因為既然講到從左移方案是"},{"start":788.317,"end":800.043,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":809.747,"end":811.028,"text":"目前我們還在收集,像前幾天都多了一票。"},{"start":838.84,"end":855.196,"text":"再來我請教一下除了高鐵之外機場也很重要特別是高雄機場也謝謝整個新的航廈計畫但現在這個新航廈第一期的預定要到2032年我認為太久我希望縮短到2030請加快相關的期程我們來努力加速好不好"},{"start":855.476,"end":883.308,"text":"另外當然航班航點的部分還是要請這個持續來增加我們這幾年看到義後在桃園在臺北的松山的部分都恢復的相當的快但是高雄作為南台灣最重要的一個國際機場甚至於新南向的一個基地我們認為這個優勢沒有被發揮出來包括甚至在新南向的航班的部分增加速度也都不如預期我們也希望院長部長持續來要求來增加這樣的一個"},{"start":884.689,"end":898.91,"text":"這個航班航點跟整個騎乘好不好?這個我們來努力。再要請教一下,因為華航有新購了一些客機,那我知道這些新購客機,原先多數規劃是要放在北部的,桃園的,但我認為,我也請部長能夠回去要求了好不好?"},{"start":899.27,"end":899.45,"text":"謝謝賴委員謝謝卓院長"},{"start":928.912,"end":929.637,"text":"下一位請陳亭飛委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":33,"blocks":[["賴委員瑞隆：（9時3分）謝謝主席，請卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["賴委員瑞隆：院長，辛苦了。"],["卓院長榮泰：賴委員好。"],["賴委員瑞隆：首先，我還是要談，我認為總預算其實是憲政的問題，是權力分立也是責任政治的問題，行政跟立法應該本於自己的憲政權責施政，我認為這才是國家之福。現在我們憲法跟預算法的規定其實都非常地清楚。院長，後面這樣的僵局怎麼解決？你怎麼看？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員讓我再度有機會說出我心裡，從一開始到今天為止始終如一的一個想法。我只有一種想法，就誠如我在上一次臉書文章所說的，其實行政院只有一個立場，只有一個堅持，就是以後編列預算一定要按照憲法第七十條的精神、預算法第九十三條的規定，如果立法委員在審查預算的時候，有增加歲出、減少歲入一定要徵詢行政院的意見，同時要指出彌補資金的來源，必要的時候還要進行必要的修法。如果能夠踐行這樣的程序，兩院之間互相尊重毫無問題。"],["賴委員瑞隆：院長提出了一個很關鍵性的問題，就是過去以來有的話通常也都是行政院其實是認可也支持的，所以才能夠進行，但是行政院有所疑慮，要負這個政治責任的其實最後是行政院。在國家資源有限下，一定要做一些適度的調配跟整理，如果現在26億可以不經行政院的同意就強行要求的話，接下來260億或可能更多的經費，國家的財政怎麼樣來運作？"],["卓院長榮泰：對。"],["賴委員瑞隆：而且最後要負起總的政治責任的其實是行政院，因為人民最後究責的是行政院，行政院同意並支持而做的，這個是行政院要負起責任。所以我認為每個政黨都有機會成為執政黨，都有機會成為國會的多數黨，但是應該把行政與立法的權責確立清楚，國家才能長治久安，院長同意這樣的看法嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：完全沒錯，如果履行剛剛的程序，兩院之間互相尊重，絕對沒有問題，同時大法官釋字391號寫得非常清楚，無論是審查預算或是審議法律案，涉及施政計畫內容的變動或調整，就算預算項目移動或追加，非常重要，易導致政策成敗無所歸屬，責任政治難以確立，有違行政權與立法權分立，各本所司之制衡原理，應為憲法所不許。憲法釋字391非常清楚寫到這一點。"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以這個其實非常清楚，現在院長所堅持的也不是只有你而已，其實堅持的是一套制度。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：不然，這個惡例一旦延續下去，每次都可以這樣做的話，大概整個責任政治會混亂掉，同時間整個行政立法的體系也會混亂掉……"],["卓院長榮泰：此例一開，接踵而來。"],["賴委員瑞隆：是。我看到了院長其實也是做了一些退步與讓步，我看你在臉書上面說，希望有一個好的開始，雙方各讓一步，我看裡面有一個關鍵性，就是只此一次下不為例，然後設法增加點費用來解開僵局，院長有一個怎麼樣特殊的方式來解開？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為在10月11日韓院長和我們朝野黨團的餐敘當中，副院長也在場，其實那天談的內容大家還好，但出來之後就說，破局、潑冷水。其實那一天我和韓院長心中非常清楚，協商即將開始，所以隔週協商馬上開始，所以我在10月18日才寫了剛剛那個文章，但是就是大家對於所謂「依法」這兩個字各自解讀不同，所以前天我才用這個更簡單的隱喻，其實這個重點只有第三點，就是我們建議只要同意以後不會如此要求，只此一次下不為例，這次我們可以加點費用來解決這個問題。"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以等於也加一個梯子，讓大家有個臺階下……"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：有一個緩和的方式下來之後，就這一次僵局已經造成了，我們就解這一次就好了……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是這一次……"],["賴委員瑞隆：但是未來的部分還是要回歸到整個憲政……"],["卓院長榮泰：對、對、對。"],["賴委員瑞隆：這一次用一個特例的方式去處理。"],["卓院長榮泰：這一次還是要回頭來補行預算法第九十三條的規定，徵詢行政院的意見，我們會做必要的表示，以後才好處理，未來還是要這樣。"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以這一次的解方有可能就是這個提出來之後，再徵詢行政院的意見，行政院就予以同意，這一次解掉這一題，未來就不再採用這樣的方式。"],["卓院長榮泰：未來就要照法律規定來，照這個規定來，我們都尊重。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我想這也是卓院長釋出的善意，我們也希望這個僵局能夠在這樣的善意下來獲得解決，但是昨天看……"],["卓院長榮泰：是，所以我說我們來解決問題，不要造成誤解。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我認為其實不管是行政院，特別是立法院，都是要來解決問題，如果你只是要否決掉而已，我提出的方法你都不同意，我釋憲，你也不同意，所有倒閣這些的你都有意見，那你的方法是什麼？立法院也要提出自己的方法出來……"],["卓院長榮泰：這是滿遺憾的……"],["賴委員瑞隆：如果都不提出方法出來的話，人民就會覺得是不是刻意在讓整個國家陷入混亂當中。"],["卓院長榮泰：這次只有行政院提出這樣的方法嘗試解決，我還沒有看到朝野協商之間有沒有一個好的方法來解決。"],["賴委員瑞隆：當然這是一種方法。另外，我看到院長在裡面有提到，就所謂的仲裁，你講的其實就我們講的釋憲，釋憲也是另外一種方式，就是你提起釋憲，交由憲法法庭大法官來做最後的確定，最後大法官的確定出來，該怎麼辦就怎麼辦。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：如果大法官認為是立法院違憲，立法院就撤回這樣的方案，如果大法官會議做出行政院違憲的確定，當然行政院也就接受……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們就遵守。"],["賴委員瑞隆：這也是一種方式，但是無論如何，都不應該用這樣的方式卡住整個總預算。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒錯。"],["賴委員瑞隆：應該讓總預算持續，因為現在差不多再兩個多月的時間，新的年度就開始了，所有的縣市政府、所有的重大建設、新興建設，都在等待這樣的預算，我認為朝野政黨都不應該再持續拖下去了。"],["卓院長榮泰：我認為只要馬上開始，以立法院的效率，還是可以完成的，還是可以在時間內完成，這樣我們對人民的託付就會有所交代，行政院就能夠在下個年度好好的推動現在整套施政報告當中跟大院所報告的內容。"],["賴委員瑞隆：院長，如果照你的話，就是這一次以剛剛你提到這樣的方式來做處理，以再追認後面的程序這樣處理，這個如果不可行的話，大概釋憲就是你下一步可能的作法。"],["卓院長榮泰：我非常不願意，真的，我非常不願意。"],["賴委員瑞隆：不是個好的方法，不斷地提出釋憲不是個好的方法，但是當行政、立法陷入僵局，陷入到對憲法的紛爭的時候，那看來憲法法庭可能是最後適合的仲裁者。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒錯，行政、立法兩院都是憲政機關，憲政機關依照憲法所賦予的任何救濟程序，我覺得都應該被遵守。"],["賴委員瑞隆：倒閣、解散國會幾乎是最後、最不得已的僵局下的一個程序，大家都不期望走上那樣一條路啦！所以我們還是希望這樣的方式能夠得到在野黨的支持，儘快解除這樣的僵局。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有一個執政團隊希望用政治上的不穩定來造成人民的困擾，所以倒閣是憲法上面的規定，但是是非常萬不得已的手段……"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以我昨天看到有些在野黨不斷地嗆聲等等，我認為這些都是很不恰當的，你用這樣的方式無益於解決問題嘛！憲政有憲政僵局的政治解決方案，但它不是最佳的方案。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我說總有一種方法可以行得通，我們要找是哪一種方法，大家要找那種方法，而不是找其中最不可能的方法互相來指責，那就不對了。"],["賴委員瑞隆：全臺灣人民都在看，我們也希望各政黨大家能夠拿出智慧，用最好的高度來解決，如果持續讓僵局下去，只是讓臺灣國會、臺灣的政治陷入混亂，我相信全民都在看，大家都不會接受的。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒錯，我們也會很愧對看我們在這裡對話的所有的國人。"],["賴委員瑞隆：謝謝院長。接下來我要回到交通的議題，我要先談一下大林蒲遷村，在2016年的時候林全院長代表政府跟陳菊市長去道歉，然後啟動，到現在為止經過8年，經過6個院長，2019年10月蘇貞昌院長核定整個計畫，至今5年了，這是民進黨的一個重大政策，我希望院長能夠加速期程，希望環評儘速確定。這個都讓我印象深刻，國道7號當年在國民黨執政時代進入二階環評之後拖了14年，我們的第七貨櫃中心已經啟用了，結果國道7號到現在還沒有動工，我希望這些歷史的經驗都能加快，國家的重大建設如果要做，環評的部分應該儘快定案，可不可以儘快定案，讓整個政策能夠儘快來推動？請院長能不能來協助加快？"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，當時賴總統在擔任院長的任內，我們也對這個事情有所接觸跟了解，後來經過幾年之後，環評第一階段已經決定了，現在開始我想我們可以有更多的機會、時間來看看是不是照這個時程進行，或是當中還有什麼問題，我們積極來處理。"],["賴委員瑞隆：從一開始代表政府道歉到現在已經8年，從核定第一本已經5年了，我覺得時間相當長，也希望加快，包括登記的程序，鄉親們都在等，希望早點做出選擇，早點去思考整個未來，我也希望這一塊院長未來能不能指派政委來盯住這樣的業務？因為它除了涉及到經濟部外，有其他一些相關部會的跨局處業務，我也希望將來有政委能夠協助，好嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，而且它現在有新的計畫，就是新材料的循環產業，我們朝這個方向來看看地方跟中央之間還有沒有什麼問題需要進行溝通跟調解，再請委員幫忙。"],["賴委員瑞隆：請院長協助盯住這樣重大政策的進度好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：再來，其實交通建設很多對於地方是相當重要的發展，高雄這幾年也在政府的大力支持下，不管楠梓、橋頭、仁武、北高雄的產業園區，到比較南高雄的臨海工業區、前鎮科技產業園區，包括到亞洲新灣區，甚至在機場都有很多的投入、很多建設，這要非常感謝行政院跟交通部的支持。","我要回到一個點，這些重大建設中，高鐵也是重要的一環，我上禮拜看到柯志恩委員再次的去模糊掉這個焦點，我們要再次強調，從2007年就在評估，當時最早評估的是從左營到高雄，有機會到屏東去。大臺北就3個站了，板橋、臺北到南港，有非常好的效果，但是當時在2010年10月17號毛治國擔任交通部長的時候，他核定「現階段擬將路線繼續向南延伸至高雄火車站、甚至屏東，並不具可行性」，當時這樣的一句話，導致到現在為止十幾年來變成慢了，大臺北都已經完成了3站，而在整個高雄是慢下來的。我要問的是，院長，如果是你的話，你會做這樣的決策嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我只知道現在高雄車站是一個非常大的車站，而且現在就是為了高鐵可能延伸過去在做事先的準備，如果是這樣的話，這句話當時為什麼要存在，而且高雄車站……"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以這個歷史很清楚，歷史都留下了很清楚的紀錄，當時如果交通部長支持的話，其實這個案子就會進到高雄車站，但是他已經講得很清楚，到高雄車站，甚至屏東不具可行性。當你這樣一講下去的時候，這個案子等於就是死掉了，所以導致現在我們要重新再思考怎麼進到屏東的時候，變成要花掉非常多的時間，慢了14年的時間，我要講的是慢了。現在我們知道的是，從左營的這個方案日本廠商認為是不可行，所以現在看來最有可能的方案是進到高雄車站再到屏東去，院長，是這樣嘛？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們要克服施工上的問題，這個請部長再答復。"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以現在最有可能的方案就是進到高雄車站的方案？"],["陳部長世凱：目前我們有兩個案子，目前收攏大家的意見，聽起來大家認為高雄方案好像比較可行。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我的想法是，如果已經確定，因為既然講到左營方案是不可行的，日本廠商認為有一些相關的風險，如果不可行的話，我希望要進高雄車站就要儘快，不要再拖了，同時間不要再……當年14年前的時代……"],["陳部長世凱：我們在年底之前會來宣布。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我希望這個部分要加快速度……"],["陳部長世凱：好，我們再收攏地方的意見。"],["賴委員瑞隆：對，我希望加快速度，當年因為這樣而慢了14年，導致現在包括高雄車站周邊站體的發展都很需要，我們希望這塊儘快來加速完成，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好，沒問題。"],["賴委員瑞隆：院長可以嗎？儘快來支持這樣的方案，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：部長跟我的想法就是，年底之前蒐集地方的意見做一個整合，然後告訴地方我們想要做什麼樣的決定，請地方來共同支持。"],["賴委員瑞隆：應該高雄方案的機會是最大嘛，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：目前我們還在蒐集，像前幾天就多了一票。"],["賴委員瑞隆：再來，我請教一下，除了高鐵之外，機場也很重要，特別是高雄機場也謝謝整個新的航廈計畫，但現在這個新航廈第一期預定要到2032年，我認為太久了，我希望縮短到2030年，請加快相關的期程。"],["陳部長世凱：我們來努力加速。"],["賴委員瑞隆：另外，當然航班、航點的部分，還是要請持續來增加，我們這幾年看到疫後在桃園、在臺北松山的部分都恢復得相當快，但是高雄作為南臺灣最重要的一個國際機場，甚至於新南向的一個基地，我們認為這個優勢沒有被發揮出來，甚至在新南向航班的部分，其增加速度也都不如預期，我們也希望院長、部長持續來要求，來增加這個航班、航點跟整個期程，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：這個我們來努力。"],["賴委員瑞隆：好。再來，我請教一下，因為華航有新購了一些客機，我知道這些新購客機原先多數規劃是要放在北部的桃園，但我也請部長能夠回去要求，這一定要有一定比例是放在高雄，不然現在高雄的客機相對是小而且相對老舊，這個對於營運相對上都是更辛苦的，我希望相對的一定比例應該要放在高雄，好不好？這部分請院長、部長能夠大力來支持，讓高雄的飛機、讓高雄的國際機場有更好的發展，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝賴委員指教。"],["賴委員瑞隆：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝賴委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位請陳亭妃委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":195,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-5","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","賴瑞隆","陳亭妃","陳俊宇","黃捷","李坤城","邱志偉","魯明哲","林沛祥","黃珊珊","陳昭姿","林憶君","羅廷瑋","范雲","李彥秀","王世堅","盧縣一","邱若華","葉元之","何欣純","徐欣瑩","羅美玲","劉建國"],"page_start":109,"meetingDate":["2024-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1138101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138101_00004","1138101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第5次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─ 詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138101_00009"}}}