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190.719, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 194.844, \"end\": 201.754, \"text\": \"這中間短短9天到底為什麼這麼如此重大的決策有這麼大的轉折可不可以請部長告訴我們到底這個中間關鍵是什麼\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 194.844, \"end\": 195.605, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"短\", \"start\": 195.605, \"end\": 195.846, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"短\", \"start\": 195.846, \"end\": 196.326, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 196.326, \"end\": 196.627, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 196.627, \"end\": 196.787, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 196.787, \"end\": 197.108, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 197.108, \"end\": 197.809, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 197.809, \"end\": 198.029, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"此\", \"start\": 198.029, \"end\": 198.229, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": 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\"end\": 907.627, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 907.627, \"end\": 907.807, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"消\", \"start\": 907.807, \"end\": 907.908, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 907.908, \"end\": 908.008, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 908.008, \"end\": 908.028, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 908.028, \"end\": 908.068, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 908.068, \"end\": 908.228, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 908.228, \"end\": 908.388, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 908.388, \"end\": 908.528, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 908.528, \"end\": 908.668, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 908.668, \"end\": 908.688, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 908.688, \"end\": 908.708, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 908.708, \"end\": 908.808, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 908.808, \"end\": 908.868, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"幅\", \"start\": 908.868, \"end\": 908.968, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 908.968, \"end\": 908.988, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 942.23, \"end\": 942.351, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"卓\", \"start\": 942.351, \"end\": 942.491, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 942.491, \"end\": 942.511, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,950 --> 00:00:10,174\n好,謝謝主席。我們請院長跟陳部長。黃委員好。\n\n2\n00:00:23,171 --> 00:00:42,047\n好院長好部長好首先請教一個我們所有高雄的委員都在問的問題就是這個高鐵進市區其實現在高雄人都非常非常關心尤其其實現在談論的路線有經過我的選區而且範圍非常大我相信部長也知道是\n\n3\n00:00:42,387 --> 00:01:08,027\n那當然前面其實大家都在提說高雄到底高鐵要不要進市區這個過去或許已經經歷過一個錯誤決策了就是在2010年大家都會拿出來的這個公文也就是時任在馬政府時期的交通部長毛志國以及葉匡石次長當時簽下的這張公文這張公文簽下去對於高雄人來說就是十幾年快20年的痛\n\n4\n00:01:09,448 --> 00:01:24,173\n這個是老高雄人的痛是因為當時其實高雄車站裡面已經預留高鐵的月台了那但是並沒有啟用也沒有開始工程嘛所以當時的錯誤決策導致這十幾年來大家都在討論說欸為什麼當時沒有進到市區導致現在還要重啟這樣的討論\n\n5\n00:01:29,855 --> 00:01:30,095\n當時的討論是以左營為主\n\n6\n00:01:58,339 --> 00:02:17,439\n沒錯,在這個可行性評估裡面我把全部的內容都讀完了那裡面其實把所有的方案做了一次比較那當時其實有提到說是因為左營的方案就工程技術面用地拆遷面其實都相較高雄方案來得容易一點\n\n7\n00:02:19,522 --> 00:02:45,315\n然後還有經費啦那可是呢所以我當時就其實高雄人都說喔那原來要走左營方案可是直到今年2月開始有一些新的聲音出來我不知道說是到後面已經開始進行技術上的更細緻的評估發現說左營方案其實不可行還是怎麼樣所以到了7月其實我跟李柏宇委員有請鐵道局來跟我們說明到底現在遇到什麼困難了\n\n8\n00:02:46,315 --> 00:03:10,719\n是不是真的要變成走高雄方案了呢?結果當時鐵道局跟我們說什麼?他說沒有啊,只有左營方案,從頭到尾就是左營方案。結果7月11日跟我們講完,7月20日交通部馬上轉頭跟媒體說我們在評估高雄方案。那我當時就覺得說,欸?我是被耍了嗎?我是被鐵道局騙了嗎?還是鐵道局跟我們欺瞞了什麼?\n\n9\n00:03:14,844 --> 00:03:21,754\n這中間短短9天到底為什麼這麼如此重大的決策有這麼大的轉折可不可以請部長告訴我們到底這個中間關鍵是什麼\n\n10\n00:03:25,740 --> 00:03:50,576\n其實我所知道那個過程當中有左營方案有高雄方案其實同時還有另外兩個方案過去的討論其實有好幾個方案在討論還有小港潮州以及燕潮方案對還有燕潮方案那有幾個方案都在討論當中還沒有到最後定案那當時為什麼鐵道局說只有這個左營方案這個我不曉得那個過程但我所知道的是其實四個方案都在討論當中\n\n11\n00:03:52,602 --> 00:03:54,284\n我跟委員報告520之後很短的時間內李前部長曾經來報告過\n\n12\n00:04:02,602 --> 00:04:31,554\n高鐵南深到這個屏東這個方案提出的是4條線我想我也知道但是這個方案當中當時比較著重在左營跟高雄這兩個方案更北更南的那個他已經不考慮了那我們那時候給交通部的做法是說你要回到去到高雄跟當地的高雄市政府當地的民意代表地方人士在做廣泛的溝通因為這個變更算是\n\n13\n00:04:32,134 --> 00:04:37,787\n五二零之後做的這個工作或許那幾天就是在進行這樣的討論當中\n\n14\n00:04:42,579 --> 00:05:09,653\n好謝謝院長的補充說明喔喔院長比部長還了解清部長要回去加油了這個我就是要再來詢問部長的喔因為我這幾天都聽到說交通部很認真的在跟地方收集意見然後在跟地方做溝通可是就我所知至少我的選區不管是市民里長議員還是我本人都沒有接到任何的溝通請問你們是跟誰溝通做了哪些溝通\n\n15\n00:05:10,713 --> 00:05:21,843\n報告委員,我們跟市府有做溝通這是一方面,二方面其實我們會來舉辦三場的專家學者會議,包含地方的意見的收容的會議。什麼時候?我們在這個月就會來辦理。會到高雄辦嗎?\n\n16\n00:05:24,441 --> 00:05:50,888\n當然在高雄辦,三場都會在高雄辦那當然也會邀請委員跟地方的包含民意代表也好或者是里長也好大家一起來商討一起來討論好那拜託這三場會議一定要公告讓所有的高雄市民知道因為我必須要跟部長報告這個時候其實你我走到地方每一場活動都會有人來跟我說到底高雄這個高鐵的方案要走哪一個路線怎麼走\n\n17\n00:05:51,328 --> 00:06:13,216\n好,我說我跟交通部要報告都只有2020年的耶。這四年來你們最新的進展我也都不知道耶。所以我在這邊就是講給我們所有高雄的鄉親知道,現在交通部會如何來跟地方做溝通,這個非常非常重要,尤其中間一大段經過古山區嘛。是。\n\n18\n00:06:14,237 --> 00:06:15,518\n我近期會請鐵道局趕快來跟委員報告這件事情,不好意思。\n\n19\n00:06:32,739 --> 00:07:00,831\n好謝謝部長我為什麼要在這邊特別提這件事情是因為前面我也講過這個脈絡了過去高雄其實承受非常多那在這20年來現在其實從2020年我看這個報告到現在我們高雄又有新的進展包括輕軌也完工了包括今年年底高雄車站的站體也要完工了然後這20年來台鐵地下化高雄承受的也夠多了\n\n20\n00:07:01,718 --> 00:07:26,343\n那如果我們在這個時候要進到市區是不是應該要跟大家做妥善的溝通包括說其實在這個可行性評估報告裡面我也細讀了在高雄方案其實有非常多要去克服的困難不只是技術上因為就我所知現在除了只有預留月台然後其實它有橫渡線的問題因為寬度不夠你可能要拉到戰後\n\n21\n00:07:27,463 --> 00:07:55,836\n那這是一個,然後包括裡面要拆遷的戶數,光是2020年要拆遷的戶數,目前就已經是69戶,那個就是資料上的,現在是不是有新增,不知道。明蛙的範圍多廣,跟當時評估的報告比起來是如何,這個都要去細算,包括我們現在新站體完成了,現在有兩大棟,就在高雄車站,請部長一定要來看一下,到時候如果明蛙的範圍影響到這兩棟,是不是還要拆掉在\n\n22\n00:07:57,057 --> 00:07:58,198\n主席主席主席\n\n23\n00:08:14,756 --> 00:08:30,501\n目前已經挖過的那一個路段現在成為綠園道非常的漂亮我們也會要求說對綠園道的影響要縮到最小然後對交通的影響我們也希望能夠做半半施工的方式就是說影響一半不要整個把人家堵住這個部分我們會去處理\n\n24\n00:08:31,201 --> 00:08:47,756\n在因為淺墩工法沒有討論過,大概拆遷的戶數會比過去再更少一些,因為我們用淺墩的方法也有可能會影響到我們借用地下的那個通路權,那另外就是有可能把它拆掉之後用督根的方式再幫它蓋回來,所以影響的範圍會是最小的。\n\n25\n00:08:50,617 --> 00:09:15,707\n這個請委員放心因為這些務必要讓所有的市民放心因為我必須要說啦一個很大的前提高雄市民非常期待中央給予重大建設在高雄一定都是正向看待因為高雄人過去委屈很久所以現在如果高鐵願意進到市區或願意在高雄多設一站我相信沒有高雄人會反對但是中間包括說這個工期可行性評估報告裡面寫14年\n\n26\n00:09:18,197 --> 00:09:26,591\n14年喔!高雄過去鐵路地下化已經20年那如果你現在又新增14年是不是又讓高雄人現在馬上\n\n27\n00:09:28,154 --> 00:09:29,936\n三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n\n28\n00:09:54,258 --> 00:10:09,157\n這個部分我們會盡量來努力影響最小的範圍之內來施工那過去我知道大家認為的那個黑暗期過去是那個鐵道地下化的整個過程那確實是整段都是民挖這第一點第二點除了民挖之外因為他的鐵軌還在運行\n\n29\n00:10:10,539 --> 00:10:28,166\n所以影響的範圍其實相對是大的那目前已經沒有鐵軌在運行了那我們再加上大量的潛墩的這個工法我相信這個影響會降到最小那我們會如果決定是高雄方案的話我們一定會跟高雄市民來承諾我們跟市政府這邊好好的配合影響大家生活最小的範圍之內來施工\n\n30\n00:10:29,434 --> 00:10:49,787\n好,謝謝部長的承諾,這個承諾非常重要,因為這個是高雄的百年大計,而且其實拉到高雄我相信也是有一部分的高雄人會覺得說這個可以均衡高雄南北的發展,而且對於產業的活絡,附近的商圈,一定都是有幫助的,大家樂見,但是以上的這一些過去的大家經歷的痛,\n\n31\n00:10:51,068 --> 00:11:12,273\n這一些承諾一定要由部長來盡力做到最大的協助。好,謝謝,非常感謝。那再來,最後一個部分我要來跟院長請求,因為其實我知道交通部算是非常的用心,在最近高雄有一個好消息,就是美聯航有來高雄設點,那這個當然是一大進展,可是還不夠。\n\n32\n00:11:13,613 --> 00:11:40,600\n還不夠是因為現在高雄的航班航點只有疫情前的七成那這個我相信大家都不夠滿意啦所以在這邊我也要跟拜託請部長回去努力一下也要跟院長在這邊請託是不是有機會讓高雄的航班不只是恢復到過去的百分之百的水準甚至可以再超越為什麼我說可以再超越是因為高雄是非常有市場的\n\n33\n00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:59,536\n因為其實目前高雄的這個航班的旅運量其實基本上都有7成5以上甚至是非日本東北亞這些都到9成以上班機是非常滿而且現在的轉機市場我相信大家也都有看到那過去在高雄其實都也非常有機會來做轉機市場\n\n34\n00:12:01,963 --> 00:12:28,630\n所以我希望的是不要放棄這個機會我相信現在華航長榮可能新宇都已經很積極的要投向轉機市場高雄有這個條件好不好這個可不可以來努力一下報告委員航班的部分我們正在努力目前恢復大概八成多但是航點確實只有七成那為什麼呢因為大量取消的是對岸的航點對岸的航點這個部分大概就有一些政治上的因素我們沒有辦法跟對岸來溝通\n\n35\n00:12:29,770 --> 00:12:53,031\n那另外的航點的部分我們正在努力因為委員們都很關心高雄幾乎每位委員都來談過沒錯我們希望能夠在飛一些長程的包含澳洲包含美國的這些航線我們正在努力當中那包含您在講的一些大型的這個航運的公司如果可以到高雄去拓展那當然更好那另外就是高雄可能機場可以作為東南亞的一個樞紐往東南亞的航線一個很重要的節點對這個部分我們會來努力\n\n36\n00:12:57,179 --> 00:13:17,799\n好那這個就期待我們交通部的好消息因為這個如果沒有你們來全力的協助我們也很難在這個市場上面有更多的拓展所以我希望說看什麼時候可以恢復到疫情前的這樣的航班航線航點然後也拓展新的點然後讓高雄成為新的轉機市場最棒的一個節點好不好\n\n37\n00:13:18,379 --> 00:13:46,682\n好那最後還有一點時間我也來跟院長來建議一下因為其實現在大家談淨零碳排那我知道的是現在航空業非常積極的要來做永續的燃油那我知道說現在桃園機場跟松山機場都有要來嘗試加中油的永續的燃油那是不是也我們回去把這個建議帶回去那是不是有機會把這樣的永續燃油還有相關的永續的建設\n\n38\n00:13:47,583 --> 00:14:02,654\n因為其實現在小港機場也正在有一新的工程嘛那是不是都把淨零碳排的概念帶進去我們可以走得更前面讓這個機場蓋好以及接下來使用的新的航班都可以有永續燃油以及有淨零碳排相關的設施在裡面\n\n39\n00:14:03,456 --> 00:14:26,689\n是的,航空的用油跟一般用油不一樣,它可以從回收的油品當中去做航空的用油。那我們現在就是為了剛剛您說的要淨零碳排,要降低所有的使用量,所以這個部分過去合作的對象以及我們現在朝這個方向自己來看有沒有新的一個方向,這個是現在整個航空事業在努力的事情。\n\n40\n00:14:27,554 --> 00:14:50,465\n是,好,對,因為我知道的是目前其實我們有邀請中遊先幫我們幾個國籍的航空先試辦看看嘛,對,那我知道說目前如果連高雄的航班也都加入有沒有這樣的困難,或者是有沒有這樣的機會,如果可以的話是不是也請部長在這邊承諾接下來我們會讓高雄也來加入這個永續的行列?\n\n41\n00:14:50,945 --> 00:15:06,725\n是在技術產量品質都OK的情況之下我想都應該多多利用是我會請民航局趕快跟中油這邊來協調我們在高雄的這個機場的部分我們也來使用這個永續的燃油這個部分如果中油可以配合那民航局一定是樂觀其成\n\n42\n00:15:07,447 --> 00:15:08,988\n接下來有什麼消防機場的新的整個工程的規劃都應該要大幅的\n\n43\n00:15:42,230 --> 00:15:42,511\n謝謝黃委員、謝謝卓院長。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5950\t10174\t好,謝謝主席。我們請院長跟陳部長。黃委員好。\n23171\t42047\t好 院長好 部長好首先請教一個我們所有高雄的委員都在問的問題就是這個高鐵進市區其實現在高雄人都非常非常關心尤其其實現在談論的路線有經過我的選區而且範圍非常大我相信部長也知道是\n42387\t68027\t那當然前面其實大家都在提說高雄到底高鐵要不要進市區這個過去或許已經經歷過一個錯誤決策了就是在2010年大家都會拿出來的這個公文也就是時任在馬政府時期的交通部長毛志國以及葉匡石次長當時簽下的這張公文這張公文簽下去對於高雄人來說就是十幾年快20年的痛\n69448\t84173\t這個是老高雄人的痛是因為當時其實高雄車站裡面已經預留高鐵的月台了那但是並沒有啟用也沒有開始工程嘛所以當時的錯誤決策導致這十幾年來大家都在討論說欸為什麼當時沒有進到市區導致現在還要重啟這樣的討論\n89855\t90095\t當時的討論是以左營為主\n118339\t137439\t沒錯,在這個可行性評估裡面我把全部的內容都讀完了那裡面其實把所有的方案做了一次比較那當時其實有提到說是因為左營的方案就工程技術面用地拆遷面其實都相較高雄方案來得容易一點\n139522\t165315\t然後還有經費啦那可是呢所以我當時就其實高雄人都說喔那原來要走左營方案可是直到今年2月開始有一些新的聲音出來我不知道說是到後面已經開始進行技術上的更細緻的評估發現說左營方案其實不可行還是怎麼樣所以到了7月其實我跟李柏宇委員有請鐵道局來跟我們說明到底現在遇到什麼困難了\n166315\t190719\t是不是真的要變成走高雄方案了呢?結果當時鐵道局跟我們說什麼?他說沒有啊,只有左營方案,從頭到尾就是左營方案。結果7月11日跟我們講完,7月20日交通部馬上轉頭跟媒體說我們在評估高雄方案。那我當時就覺得說,欸?我是被耍了嗎?我是被鐵道局騙了嗎?還是鐵道局跟我們欺瞞了什麼?\n194844\t201754\t這中間短短9天到底為什麼這麼如此重大的決策有這麼大的轉折可不可以請部長告訴我們到底這個中間關鍵是什麼\n205740\t230576\t其實我所知道那個過程當中有左營方案有高雄方案其實同時還有另外兩個方案過去的討論其實有好幾個方案在討論還有小港潮州以及燕潮方案對還有燕潮方案那有幾個方案都在討論當中還沒有到最後定案那當時為什麼鐵道局說只有這個左營方案這個我不曉得那個過程但我所知道的是其實四個方案都在討論當中\n232602\t234284\t我跟委員報告520之後很短的時間內李前部長曾經來報告過\n242602\t271554\t高鐵南深到這個屏東這個方案提出的是4條線我想我也知道但是這個方案當中當時比較著重在左營跟高雄這兩個方案更北更南的那個他已經不考慮了那我們那時候給交通部的做法是說你要回到去到高雄跟當地的高雄市政府當地的民意代表地方人士在做廣泛的溝通因為這個變更算是\n272134\t277787\t五二零之後做的這個工作或許那幾天就是在進行這樣的討論當中\n282579\t309653\t好 謝謝院長的補充說明喔 喔 院長比部長還了解清 部長要回去加油了 這個我就是要再來詢問部長的喔 因為我這幾天都聽到說 交通部很認真的在跟地方收集意見 然後在跟地方做溝通 可是就我所知 至少我的選區 不管是市民 里長 議員 還是我本人 都沒有接到任何的溝通 請問你們是跟誰溝通 做了哪些溝通\n310713\t321843\t報告委員,我們跟市府有做溝通這是一方面,二方面其實我們會來舉辦三場的專家學者會議,包含地方的意見的收容的會議。 什麼時候?我們在這個月就會來辦理。會到高雄辦嗎?\n324441\t350888\t當然在高雄辦,三場都會在高雄辦那當然也會邀請委員跟地方的包含民意代表也好或者是里長也好大家一起來商討一起來討論好那拜託這三場會議一定要公告讓所有的高雄市民知道因為我必須要跟部長報告這個時候其實你我走到地方每一場活動都會有人來跟我說到底高雄這個高鐵的方案要走哪一個路線怎麼走\n351328\t373216\t好,我說我跟交通部要報告都只有2020年的耶。 這四年來你們最新的進展我也都不知道耶。 所以我在這邊就是講給我們所有高雄的鄉親知道,現在交通部會如何來跟地方做溝通,這個非常非常重要,尤其中間一大段經過古山區嘛。 是。\n374237\t375518\t我近期會請鐵道局趕快來跟委員報告這件事情,不好意思。\n392739\t420831\t好謝謝部長我為什麼要在這邊特別提這件事情是因為前面我也講過這個脈絡了過去高雄其實承受非常多那在這20年來現在其實從2020年我看這個報告到現在我們高雄又有新的進展包括輕軌也完工了包括今年年底高雄車站的站體也要完工了然後這20年來台鐵地下化高雄承受的也夠多了\n421718\t446343\t那如果我們在這個時候要進到市區是不是應該要跟大家做妥善的溝通包括說其實在這個可行性評估報告裡面我也細讀了在高雄方案其實有非常多要去克服的困難不只是技術上因為就我所知現在除了只有預留月台然後其實它有橫渡線的問題因為寬度不夠你可能要拉到戰後\n447463\t475836\t那這是一個,然後包括裡面要拆遷的戶數,光是2020年要拆遷的戶數,目前就已經是69戶,那個就是資料上的,現在是不是有新增,不知道。明蛙的範圍多廣,跟當時評估的報告比起來是如何,這個都要去細算,包括我們現在新站體完成了,現在有兩大棟,就在高雄車站,請部長一定要來看一下,到時候如果明蛙的範圍影響到這兩棟,是不是還要拆掉在\n477057\t478198\t主席主席主席\n494756\t510501\t目前已經挖過的那一個路段現在成為綠園道非常的漂亮我們也會要求說對綠園道的影響要縮到最小然後對交通的影響我們也希望能夠做半半施工的方式就是說影響一半不要整個把人家堵住這個部分我們會去處理\n511201\t527756\t在因為淺墩工法沒有討論過,大概拆遷的戶數會比過去再更少一些,因為我們用淺墩的方法也有可能會影響到我們借用地下的那個通路權,那另外就是有可能把它拆掉之後用督根的方式再幫它蓋回來,所以影響的範圍會是最小的。\n530617\t555707\t這個請委員放心因為這些務必要讓所有的市民放心因為我必須要說啦一個很大的前提高雄市民非常期待中央給予重大建設在高雄一定都是正向看待因為高雄人過去委屈很久所以現在如果高鐵願意進到市區或願意在高雄多設一站我相信沒有高雄人會反對但是中間包括說這個工期可行性評估報告裡面寫14年\n558197\t566591\t14年喔!高雄過去鐵路地下化已經20年那如果你現在又新增14年是不是又讓高雄人現在馬上\n568154\t569936\t三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n594258\t609157\t這個部分我們會盡量來努力影響最小的範圍之內來施工那過去我知道大家認為的那個黑暗期過去是那個鐵道地下化的整個過程那確實是整段都是民挖這第一點第二點除了民挖之外因為他的鐵軌還在運行\n610539\t628166\t所以影響的範圍其實相對是大的那目前已經沒有鐵軌在運行了那我們再加上大量的潛墩的這個工法我相信這個影響會降到最小那我們會如果決定是高雄方案的話我們一定會跟高雄市民來承諾我們跟市政府這邊好好的配合影響大家生活最小的範圍之內來施工\n629434\t649787\t好,謝謝部長的承諾,這個承諾非常重要,因為這個是高雄的百年大計,而且其實拉到高雄我相信也是有一部分的高雄人會覺得說這個可以均衡高雄南北的發展,而且對於產業的活絡,附近的商圈,一定都是有幫助的,大家樂見,但是以上的這一些過去的大家經歷的痛,\n651068\t672273\t這一些承諾一定要由部長來盡力做到最大的協助。好,謝謝,非常感謝。那再來,最後一個部分我要來跟院長請求,因為其實我知道交通部算是非常的用心,在最近高雄有一個好消息,就是美聯航有來高雄設點,那這個當然是一大進展,可是還不夠。\n673613\t700600\t還不夠是因為現在高雄的航班航點只有疫情前的七成那這個我相信大家都不夠滿意啦所以在這邊我也要跟拜託請部長回去努力一下也要跟院長在這邊請託是不是有機會讓高雄的航班不只是恢復到過去的百分之百的水準甚至可以再超越為什麼我說可以再超越是因為高雄是非常有市場的\n701400\t719536\t因為其實目前高雄的這個航班的旅運量其實基本上都有7成5以上甚至是非日本東北亞這些都到9成以上班機是非常滿而且現在的轉機市場我相信大家也都有看到那過去在高雄其實都也非常有機會來做轉機市場\n721963\t748630\t所以我希望的是不要放棄這個機會我相信現在華航長榮可能新宇都已經很積極的要投向轉機市場高雄有這個條件好不好這個可不可以來努力一下報告委員航班的部分我們正在努力目前恢復大概八成多但是航點確實只有七成那為什麼呢因為大量取消的是對岸的航點對岸的航點這個部分大概就有一些政治上的因素我們沒有辦法跟對岸來溝通\n749770\t773031\t那另外的航點的部分我們正在努力因為委員們都很關心高雄幾乎每位委員都來談過沒錯我們希望能夠在飛一些長程的包含澳洲包含美國的這些航線我們正在努力當中那包含您在講的一些大型的這個航運的公司如果可以到高雄去拓展那當然更好那另外就是高雄可能機場可以作為東南亞的一個樞紐往東南亞的航線一個很重要的節點對這個部分我們會來努力\n777179\t797799\t好那這個就期待我們交通部的好消息因為這個如果沒有你們來全力的協助我們也很難在這個市場上面有更多的拓展所以我希望說看什麼時候可以恢復到疫情前的這樣的航班航線航點然後也拓展新的點然後讓高雄成為新的轉機市場最棒的一個節點好不好\n798379\t826682\t好那最後還有一點時間我也來跟院長來建議一下因為其實現在大家談淨零碳排那我知道的是現在航空業非常積極的要來做永續的燃油那我知道說現在桃園機場跟松山機場都有要來嘗試加中油的永續的燃油那是不是也我們回去把這個建議帶回去那是不是有機會把這樣的永續燃油還有相關的永續的建設\n827583\t842654\t因為其實現在小港機場也正在有一新的工程嘛那是不是都把淨零碳排的概念帶進去我們可以走得更前面讓這個機場蓋好以及接下來使用的新的航班都可以有永續燃油以及有淨零碳排相關的設施在裡面\n843456\t866689\t是的,航空的用油跟一般用油不一樣,它可以從回收的油品當中去做航空的用油。 那我們現在就是為了剛剛您說的要淨零碳排,要降低所有的使用量,所以這個部分過去合作的對象以及我們現在朝這個方向自己來看有沒有新的一個方向,這個是現在整個航空事業在努力的事情。\n867554\t890465\t是,好,對,因為我知道的是目前其實我們有邀請中遊先幫我們幾個國籍的航空先試辦看看嘛,對,那我知道說目前如果連高雄的航班也都加入有沒有這樣的困難,或者是有沒有這樣的機會,如果可以的話是不是也請部長在這邊承諾接下來我們會讓高雄也來加入這個永續的行列?\n890945\t906725\t是在技術產量品質都OK的情況之下我想都應該多多利用是我會請民航局趕快跟中油這邊來協調我們在高雄的這個機場的部分我們也來使用這個永續的燃油這個部分如果中油可以配合那民航局一定是樂觀其成\n907447\t908988\t接下來有什麼消防機場的新的整個工程的規劃都應該要大幅的\n942230\t942511\t謝謝黃委員、謝謝卓院長。\n","txt":"好,謝謝主席。我們請院長跟陳部長。黃委員好。\n好 院長好 部長好首先請教一個我們所有高雄的委員都在問的問題就是這個高鐵進市區其實現在高雄人都非常非常關心尤其其實現在談論的路線有經過我的選區而且範圍非常大我相信部長也知道是\n那當然前面其實大家都在提說高雄到底高鐵要不要進市區這個過去或許已經經歷過一個錯誤決策了就是在2010年大家都會拿出來的這個公文也就是時任在馬政府時期的交通部長毛志國以及葉匡石次長當時簽下的這張公文這張公文簽下去對於高雄人來說就是十幾年快20年的痛\n這個是老高雄人的痛是因為當時其實高雄車站裡面已經預留高鐵的月台了那但是並沒有啟用也沒有開始工程嘛所以當時的錯誤決策導致這十幾年來大家都在討論說欸為什麼當時沒有進到市區導致現在還要重啟這樣的討論\n當時的討論是以左營為主\n沒錯,在這個可行性評估裡面我把全部的內容都讀完了那裡面其實把所有的方案做了一次比較那當時其實有提到說是因為左營的方案就工程技術面用地拆遷面其實都相較高雄方案來得容易一點\n然後還有經費啦那可是呢所以我當時就其實高雄人都說喔那原來要走左營方案可是直到今年2月開始有一些新的聲音出來我不知道說是到後面已經開始進行技術上的更細緻的評估發現說左營方案其實不可行還是怎麼樣所以到了7月其實我跟李柏宇委員有請鐵道局來跟我們說明到底現在遇到什麼困難了\n是不是真的要變成走高雄方案了呢?結果當時鐵道局跟我們說什麼?他說沒有啊,只有左營方案,從頭到尾就是左營方案。結果7月11日跟我們講完,7月20日交通部馬上轉頭跟媒體說我們在評估高雄方案。那我當時就覺得說,欸?我是被耍了嗎?我是被鐵道局騙了嗎?還是鐵道局跟我們欺瞞了什麼?\n這中間短短9天到底為什麼這麼如此重大的決策有這麼大的轉折可不可以請部長告訴我們到底這個中間關鍵是什麼\n其實我所知道那個過程當中有左營方案有高雄方案其實同時還有另外兩個方案過去的討論其實有好幾個方案在討論還有小港潮州以及燕潮方案對還有燕潮方案那有幾個方案都在討論當中還沒有到最後定案那當時為什麼鐵道局說只有這個左營方案這個我不曉得那個過程但我所知道的是其實四個方案都在討論當中\n我跟委員報告520之後很短的時間內李前部長曾經來報告過\n高鐵南深到這個屏東這個方案提出的是4條線我想我也知道但是這個方案當中當時比較著重在左營跟高雄這兩個方案更北更南的那個他已經不考慮了那我們那時候給交通部的做法是說你要回到去到高雄跟當地的高雄市政府當地的民意代表地方人士在做廣泛的溝通因為這個變更算是\n五二零之後做的這個工作或許那幾天就是在進行這樣的討論當中\n好 謝謝院長的補充說明喔 喔 院長比部長還了解清 部長要回去加油了 這個我就是要再來詢問部長的喔 因為我這幾天都聽到說 交通部很認真的在跟地方收集意見 然後在跟地方做溝通 可是就我所知 至少我的選區 不管是市民 里長 議員 還是我本人 都沒有接到任何的溝通 請問你們是跟誰溝通 做了哪些溝通\n報告委員,我們跟市府有做溝通這是一方面,二方面其實我們會來舉辦三場的專家學者會議,包含地方的意見的收容的會議。 什麼時候?我們在這個月就會來辦理。會到高雄辦嗎?\n當然在高雄辦,三場都會在高雄辦那當然也會邀請委員跟地方的包含民意代表也好或者是里長也好大家一起來商討一起來討論好那拜託這三場會議一定要公告讓所有的高雄市民知道因為我必須要跟部長報告這個時候其實你我走到地方每一場活動都會有人來跟我說到底高雄這個高鐵的方案要走哪一個路線怎麼走\n好,我說我跟交通部要報告都只有2020年的耶。 這四年來你們最新的進展我也都不知道耶。 所以我在這邊就是講給我們所有高雄的鄉親知道,現在交通部會如何來跟地方做溝通,這個非常非常重要,尤其中間一大段經過古山區嘛。 是。\n我近期會請鐵道局趕快來跟委員報告這件事情,不好意思。\n好謝謝部長我為什麼要在這邊特別提這件事情是因為前面我也講過這個脈絡了過去高雄其實承受非常多那在這20年來現在其實從2020年我看這個報告到現在我們高雄又有新的進展包括輕軌也完工了包括今年年底高雄車站的站體也要完工了然後這20年來台鐵地下化高雄承受的也夠多了\n那如果我們在這個時候要進到市區是不是應該要跟大家做妥善的溝通包括說其實在這個可行性評估報告裡面我也細讀了在高雄方案其實有非常多要去克服的困難不只是技術上因為就我所知現在除了只有預留月台然後其實它有橫渡線的問題因為寬度不夠你可能要拉到戰後\n那這是一個,然後包括裡面要拆遷的戶數,光是2020年要拆遷的戶數,目前就已經是69戶,那個就是資料上的,現在是不是有新增,不知道。明蛙的範圍多廣,跟當時評估的報告比起來是如何,這個都要去細算,包括我們現在新站體完成了,現在有兩大棟,就在高雄車站,請部長一定要來看一下,到時候如果明蛙的範圍影響到這兩棟,是不是還要拆掉在\n主席主席主席\n目前已經挖過的那一個路段現在成為綠園道非常的漂亮我們也會要求說對綠園道的影響要縮到最小然後對交通的影響我們也希望能夠做半半施工的方式就是說影響一半不要整個把人家堵住這個部分我們會去處理\n在因為淺墩工法沒有討論過,大概拆遷的戶數會比過去再更少一些,因為我們用淺墩的方法也有可能會影響到我們借用地下的那個通路權,那另外就是有可能把它拆掉之後用督根的方式再幫它蓋回來,所以影響的範圍會是最小的。\n這個請委員放心因為這些務必要讓所有的市民放心因為我必須要說啦一個很大的前提高雄市民非常期待中央給予重大建設在高雄一定都是正向看待因為高雄人過去委屈很久所以現在如果高鐵願意進到市區或願意在高雄多設一站我相信沒有高雄人會反對但是中間包括說這個工期可行性評估報告裡面寫14年\n14年喔!高雄過去鐵路地下化已經20年那如果你現在又新增14年是不是又讓高雄人現在馬上\n三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n這個部分我們會盡量來努力影響最小的範圍之內來施工那過去我知道大家認為的那個黑暗期過去是那個鐵道地下化的整個過程那確實是整段都是民挖這第一點第二點除了民挖之外因為他的鐵軌還在運行\n所以影響的範圍其實相對是大的那目前已經沒有鐵軌在運行了那我們再加上大量的潛墩的這個工法我相信這個影響會降到最小那我們會如果決定是高雄方案的話我們一定會跟高雄市民來承諾我們跟市政府這邊好好的配合影響大家生活最小的範圍之內來施工\n好,謝謝部長的承諾,這個承諾非常重要,因為這個是高雄的百年大計,而且其實拉到高雄我相信也是有一部分的高雄人會覺得說這個可以均衡高雄南北的發展,而且對於產業的活絡,附近的商圈,一定都是有幫助的,大家樂見,但是以上的這一些過去的大家經歷的痛,\n這一些承諾一定要由部長來盡力做到最大的協助。好,謝謝,非常感謝。那再來,最後一個部分我要來跟院長請求,因為其實我知道交通部算是非常的用心,在最近高雄有一個好消息,就是美聯航有來高雄設點,那這個當然是一大進展,可是還不夠。\n還不夠是因為現在高雄的航班航點只有疫情前的七成那這個我相信大家都不夠滿意啦所以在這邊我也要跟拜託請部長回去努力一下也要跟院長在這邊請託是不是有機會讓高雄的航班不只是恢復到過去的百分之百的水準甚至可以再超越為什麼我說可以再超越是因為高雄是非常有市場的\n因為其實目前高雄的這個航班的旅運量其實基本上都有7成5以上甚至是非日本東北亞這些都到9成以上班機是非常滿而且現在的轉機市場我相信大家也都有看到那過去在高雄其實都也非常有機會來做轉機市場\n所以我希望的是不要放棄這個機會我相信現在華航長榮可能新宇都已經很積極的要投向轉機市場高雄有這個條件好不好這個可不可以來努力一下報告委員航班的部分我們正在努力目前恢復大概八成多但是航點確實只有七成那為什麼呢因為大量取消的是對岸的航點對岸的航點這個部分大概就有一些政治上的因素我們沒有辦法跟對岸來溝通\n那另外的航點的部分我們正在努力因為委員們都很關心高雄幾乎每位委員都來談過沒錯我們希望能夠在飛一些長程的包含澳洲包含美國的這些航線我們正在努力當中那包含您在講的一些大型的這個航運的公司如果可以到高雄去拓展那當然更好那另外就是高雄可能機場可以作為東南亞的一個樞紐往東南亞的航線一個很重要的節點對這個部分我們會來努力\n好那這個就期待我們交通部的好消息因為這個如果沒有你們來全力的協助我們也很難在這個市場上面有更多的拓展所以我希望說看什麼時候可以恢復到疫情前的這樣的航班航線航點然後也拓展新的點然後讓高雄成為新的轉機市場最棒的一個節點好不好\n好那最後還有一點時間我也來跟院長來建議一下因為其實現在大家談淨零碳排那我知道的是現在航空業非常積極的要來做永續的燃油那我知道說現在桃園機場跟松山機場都有要來嘗試加中油的永續的燃油那是不是也我們回去把這個建議帶回去那是不是有機會把這樣的永續燃油還有相關的永續的建設\n因為其實現在小港機場也正在有一新的工程嘛那是不是都把淨零碳排的概念帶進去我們可以走得更前面讓這個機場蓋好以及接下來使用的新的航班都可以有永續燃油以及有淨零碳排相關的設施在裡面\n是的,航空的用油跟一般用油不一樣,它可以從回收的油品當中去做航空的用油。 那我們現在就是為了剛剛您說的要淨零碳排,要降低所有的使用量,所以這個部分過去合作的對象以及我們現在朝這個方向自己來看有沒有新的一個方向,這個是現在整個航空事業在努力的事情。\n是,好,對,因為我知道的是目前其實我們有邀請中遊先幫我們幾個國籍的航空先試辦看看嘛,對,那我知道說目前如果連高雄的航班也都加入有沒有這樣的困難,或者是有沒有這樣的機會,如果可以的話是不是也請部長在這邊承諾接下來我們會讓高雄也來加入這個永續的行列?\n是在技術產量品質都OK的情況之下我想都應該多多利用是我會請民航局趕快跟中油這邊來協調我們在高雄的這個機場的部分我們也來使用這個永續的燃油這個部分如果中油可以配合那民航局一定是樂觀其成\n接下來有什麼消防機場的新的整個工程的規劃都應該要大幅的\n謝謝黃委員、謝謝卓院長。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.950 --> 00:10.174\n好,謝謝主席。我們請院長跟陳部長。黃委員好。\n\n00:23.171 --> 00:42.047\n好院長好部長好首先請教一個我們所有高雄的委員都在問的問題就是這個高鐵進市區其實現在高雄人都非常非常關心尤其其實現在談論的路線有經過我的選區而且範圍非常大我相信部長也知道是\n\n00:42.387 --> 01:08.027\n那當然前面其實大家都在提說高雄到底高鐵要不要進市區這個過去或許已經經歷過一個錯誤決策了就是在2010年大家都會拿出來的這個公文也就是時任在馬政府時期的交通部長毛志國以及葉匡石次長當時簽下的這張公文這張公文簽下去對於高雄人來說就是十幾年快20年的痛\n\n01:09.448 --> 01:24.173\n這個是老高雄人的痛是因為當時其實高雄車站裡面已經預留高鐵的月台了那但是並沒有啟用也沒有開始工程嘛所以當時的錯誤決策導致這十幾年來大家都在討論說欸為什麼當時沒有進到市區導致現在還要重啟這樣的討論\n\n01:29.855 --> 01:30.095\n當時的討論是以左營為主\n\n01:58.339 --> 02:17.439\n沒錯,在這個可行性評估裡面我把全部的內容都讀完了那裡面其實把所有的方案做了一次比較那當時其實有提到說是因為左營的方案就工程技術面用地拆遷面其實都相較高雄方案來得容易一點\n\n02:19.522 --> 02:45.315\n然後還有經費啦那可是呢所以我當時就其實高雄人都說喔那原來要走左營方案可是直到今年2月開始有一些新的聲音出來我不知道說是到後面已經開始進行技術上的更細緻的評估發現說左營方案其實不可行還是怎麼樣所以到了7月其實我跟李柏宇委員有請鐵道局來跟我們說明到底現在遇到什麼困難了\n\n02:46.315 --> 03:10.719\n是不是真的要變成走高雄方案了呢?結果當時鐵道局跟我們說什麼?他說沒有啊,只有左營方案,從頭到尾就是左營方案。結果7月11日跟我們講完,7月20日交通部馬上轉頭跟媒體說我們在評估高雄方案。那我當時就覺得說,欸?我是被耍了嗎?我是被鐵道局騙了嗎?還是鐵道局跟我們欺瞞了什麼?\n\n03:14.844 --> 03:21.754\n這中間短短9天到底為什麼這麼如此重大的決策有這麼大的轉折可不可以請部長告訴我們到底這個中間關鍵是什麼\n\n03:25.740 --> 03:50.576\n其實我所知道那個過程當中有左營方案有高雄方案其實同時還有另外兩個方案過去的討論其實有好幾個方案在討論還有小港潮州以及燕潮方案對還有燕潮方案那有幾個方案都在討論當中還沒有到最後定案那當時為什麼鐵道局說只有這個左營方案這個我不曉得那個過程但我所知道的是其實四個方案都在討論當中\n\n03:52.602 --> 03:54.284\n我跟委員報告520之後很短的時間內李前部長曾經來報告過\n\n04:02.602 --> 04:31.554\n高鐵南深到這個屏東這個方案提出的是4條線我想我也知道但是這個方案當中當時比較著重在左營跟高雄這兩個方案更北更南的那個他已經不考慮了那我們那時候給交通部的做法是說你要回到去到高雄跟當地的高雄市政府當地的民意代表地方人士在做廣泛的溝通因為這個變更算是\n\n04:32.134 --> 04:37.787\n五二零之後做的這個工作或許那幾天就是在進行這樣的討論當中\n\n04:42.579 --> 05:09.653\n好謝謝院長的補充說明喔喔院長比部長還了解清部長要回去加油了這個我就是要再來詢問部長的喔因為我這幾天都聽到說交通部很認真的在跟地方收集意見然後在跟地方做溝通可是就我所知至少我的選區不管是市民里長議員還是我本人都沒有接到任何的溝通請問你們是跟誰溝通做了哪些溝通\n\n05:10.713 --> 05:21.843\n報告委員,我們跟市府有做溝通這是一方面,二方面其實我們會來舉辦三場的專家學者會議,包含地方的意見的收容的會議。什麼時候?我們在這個月就會來辦理。會到高雄辦嗎?\n\n05:24.441 --> 05:50.888\n當然在高雄辦,三場都會在高雄辦那當然也會邀請委員跟地方的包含民意代表也好或者是里長也好大家一起來商討一起來討論好那拜託這三場會議一定要公告讓所有的高雄市民知道因為我必須要跟部長報告這個時候其實你我走到地方每一場活動都會有人來跟我說到底高雄這個高鐵的方案要走哪一個路線怎麼走\n\n05:51.328 --> 06:13.216\n好,我說我跟交通部要報告都只有2020年的耶。這四年來你們最新的進展我也都不知道耶。所以我在這邊就是講給我們所有高雄的鄉親知道,現在交通部會如何來跟地方做溝通,這個非常非常重要,尤其中間一大段經過古山區嘛。是。\n\n06:14.237 --> 06:15.518\n我近期會請鐵道局趕快來跟委員報告這件事情,不好意思。\n\n06:32.739 --> 07:00.831\n好謝謝部長我為什麼要在這邊特別提這件事情是因為前面我也講過這個脈絡了過去高雄其實承受非常多那在這20年來現在其實從2020年我看這個報告到現在我們高雄又有新的進展包括輕軌也完工了包括今年年底高雄車站的站體也要完工了然後這20年來台鐵地下化高雄承受的也夠多了\n\n07:01.718 --> 07:26.343\n那如果我們在這個時候要進到市區是不是應該要跟大家做妥善的溝通包括說其實在這個可行性評估報告裡面我也細讀了在高雄方案其實有非常多要去克服的困難不只是技術上因為就我所知現在除了只有預留月台然後其實它有橫渡線的問題因為寬度不夠你可能要拉到戰後\n\n07:27.463 --> 07:55.836\n那這是一個,然後包括裡面要拆遷的戶數,光是2020年要拆遷的戶數,目前就已經是69戶,那個就是資料上的,現在是不是有新增,不知道。明蛙的範圍多廣,跟當時評估的報告比起來是如何,這個都要去細算,包括我們現在新站體完成了,現在有兩大棟,就在高雄車站,請部長一定要來看一下,到時候如果明蛙的範圍影響到這兩棟,是不是還要拆掉在\n\n07:57.057 --> 07:58.198\n主席主席主席\n\n08:14.756 --> 08:30.501\n目前已經挖過的那一個路段現在成為綠園道非常的漂亮我們也會要求說對綠園道的影響要縮到最小然後對交通的影響我們也希望能夠做半半施工的方式就是說影響一半不要整個把人家堵住這個部分我們會去處理\n\n08:31.201 --> 08:47.756\n在因為淺墩工法沒有討論過,大概拆遷的戶數會比過去再更少一些,因為我們用淺墩的方法也有可能會影響到我們借用地下的那個通路權,那另外就是有可能把它拆掉之後用督根的方式再幫它蓋回來,所以影響的範圍會是最小的。\n\n08:50.617 --> 09:15.707\n這個請委員放心因為這些務必要讓所有的市民放心因為我必須要說啦一個很大的前提高雄市民非常期待中央給予重大建設在高雄一定都是正向看待因為高雄人過去委屈很久所以現在如果高鐵願意進到市區或願意在高雄多設一站我相信沒有高雄人會反對但是中間包括說這個工期可行性評估報告裡面寫14年\n\n09:18.197 --> 09:26.591\n14年喔!高雄過去鐵路地下化已經20年那如果你現在又新增14年是不是又讓高雄人現在馬上\n\n09:28.154 --> 09:29.936\n三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n\n09:54.258 --> 10:09.157\n這個部分我們會盡量來努力影響最小的範圍之內來施工那過去我知道大家認為的那個黑暗期過去是那個鐵道地下化的整個過程那確實是整段都是民挖這第一點第二點除了民挖之外因為他的鐵軌還在運行\n\n10:10.539 --> 10:28.166\n所以影響的範圍其實相對是大的那目前已經沒有鐵軌在運行了那我們再加上大量的潛墩的這個工法我相信這個影響會降到最小那我們會如果決定是高雄方案的話我們一定會跟高雄市民來承諾我們跟市政府這邊好好的配合影響大家生活最小的範圍之內來施工\n\n10:29.434 --> 10:49.787\n好,謝謝部長的承諾,這個承諾非常重要,因為這個是高雄的百年大計,而且其實拉到高雄我相信也是有一部分的高雄人會覺得說這個可以均衡高雄南北的發展,而且對於產業的活絡,附近的商圈,一定都是有幫助的,大家樂見,但是以上的這一些過去的大家經歷的痛,\n\n10:51.068 --> 11:12.273\n這一些承諾一定要由部長來盡力做到最大的協助。好,謝謝,非常感謝。那再來,最後一個部分我要來跟院長請求,因為其實我知道交通部算是非常的用心,在最近高雄有一個好消息,就是美聯航有來高雄設點,那這個當然是一大進展,可是還不夠。\n\n11:13.613 --> 11:40.600\n還不夠是因為現在高雄的航班航點只有疫情前的七成那這個我相信大家都不夠滿意啦所以在這邊我也要跟拜託請部長回去努力一下也要跟院長在這邊請託是不是有機會讓高雄的航班不只是恢復到過去的百分之百的水準甚至可以再超越為什麼我說可以再超越是因為高雄是非常有市場的\n\n11:41.400 --> 11:59.536\n因為其實目前高雄的這個航班的旅運量其實基本上都有7成5以上甚至是非日本東北亞這些都到9成以上班機是非常滿而且現在的轉機市場我相信大家也都有看到那過去在高雄其實都也非常有機會來做轉機市場\n\n12:01.963 --> 12:28.630\n所以我希望的是不要放棄這個機會我相信現在華航長榮可能新宇都已經很積極的要投向轉機市場高雄有這個條件好不好這個可不可以來努力一下報告委員航班的部分我們正在努力目前恢復大概八成多但是航點確實只有七成那為什麼呢因為大量取消的是對岸的航點對岸的航點這個部分大概就有一些政治上的因素我們沒有辦法跟對岸來溝通\n\n12:29.770 --> 12:53.031\n那另外的航點的部分我們正在努力因為委員們都很關心高雄幾乎每位委員都來談過沒錯我們希望能夠在飛一些長程的包含澳洲包含美國的這些航線我們正在努力當中那包含您在講的一些大型的這個航運的公司如果可以到高雄去拓展那當然更好那另外就是高雄可能機場可以作為東南亞的一個樞紐往東南亞的航線一個很重要的節點對這個部分我們會來努力\n\n12:57.179 --> 13:17.799\n好那這個就期待我們交通部的好消息因為這個如果沒有你們來全力的協助我們也很難在這個市場上面有更多的拓展所以我希望說看什麼時候可以恢復到疫情前的這樣的航班航線航點然後也拓展新的點然後讓高雄成為新的轉機市場最棒的一個節點好不好\n\n13:18.379 --> 13:46.682\n好那最後還有一點時間我也來跟院長來建議一下因為其實現在大家談淨零碳排那我知道的是現在航空業非常積極的要來做永續的燃油那我知道說現在桃園機場跟松山機場都有要來嘗試加中油的永續的燃油那是不是也我們回去把這個建議帶回去那是不是有機會把這樣的永續燃油還有相關的永續的建設\n\n13:47.583 --> 14:02.654\n因為其實現在小港機場也正在有一新的工程嘛那是不是都把淨零碳排的概念帶進去我們可以走得更前面讓這個機場蓋好以及接下來使用的新的航班都可以有永續燃油以及有淨零碳排相關的設施在裡面\n\n14:03.456 --> 14:26.689\n是的,航空的用油跟一般用油不一樣,它可以從回收的油品當中去做航空的用油。那我們現在就是為了剛剛您說的要淨零碳排,要降低所有的使用量,所以這個部分過去合作的對象以及我們現在朝這個方向自己來看有沒有新的一個方向,這個是現在整個航空事業在努力的事情。\n\n14:27.554 --> 14:50.465\n是,好,對,因為我知道的是目前其實我們有邀請中遊先幫我們幾個國籍的航空先試辦看看嘛,對,那我知道說目前如果連高雄的航班也都加入有沒有這樣的困難,或者是有沒有這樣的機會,如果可以的話是不是也請部長在這邊承諾接下來我們會讓高雄也來加入這個永續的行列?\n\n14:50.945 --> 15:06.725\n是在技術產量品質都OK的情況之下我想都應該多多利用是我會請民航局趕快跟中油這邊來協調我們在高雄的這個機場的部分我們也來使用這個永續的燃油這個部分如果中油可以配合那民航局一定是樂觀其成\n\n15:07.447 --> 15:08.988\n接下來有什麼消防機場的新的整個工程的規劃都應該要大幅的\n\n15:42.230 --> 15:42.511\n謝謝黃委員、謝謝卓院長。\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.95,"end":10.174,"text":"好,謝謝主席。我們請院長跟陳部長。黃委員好。"},{"start":23.171,"end":42.047,"text":"好 院長好 部長好首先請教一個我們所有高雄的委員都在問的問題就是這個高鐵進市區其實現在高雄人都非常非常關心尤其其實現在談論的路線有經過我的選區而且範圍非常大我相信部長也知道是"},{"start":42.387,"end":68.027,"text":"那當然前面其實大家都在提說高雄到底高鐵要不要進市區這個過去或許已經經歷過一個錯誤決策了就是在2010年大家都會拿出來的這個公文也就是時任在馬政府時期的交通部長毛志國以及葉匡石次長當時簽下的這張公文這張公文簽下去對於高雄人來說就是十幾年快20年的痛"},{"start":69.448,"end":84.173,"text":"這個是老高雄人的痛是因為當時其實高雄車站裡面已經預留高鐵的月台了那但是並沒有啟用也沒有開始工程嘛所以當時的錯誤決策導致這十幾年來大家都在討論說欸為什麼當時沒有進到市區導致現在還要重啟這樣的討論"},{"start":89.855,"end":90.095,"text":"當時的討論是以左營為主"},{"start":118.339,"end":137.439,"text":"沒錯,在這個可行性評估裡面我把全部的內容都讀完了那裡面其實把所有的方案做了一次比較那當時其實有提到說是因為左營的方案就工程技術面用地拆遷面其實都相較高雄方案來得容易一點"},{"start":139.522,"end":165.315,"text":"然後還有經費啦那可是呢所以我當時就其實高雄人都說喔那原來要走左營方案可是直到今年2月開始有一些新的聲音出來我不知道說是到後面已經開始進行技術上的更細緻的評估發現說左營方案其實不可行還是怎麼樣所以到了7月其實我跟李柏宇委員有請鐵道局來跟我們說明到底現在遇到什麼困難了"},{"start":166.315,"end":190.719,"text":"是不是真的要變成走高雄方案了呢?結果當時鐵道局跟我們說什麼?他說沒有啊,只有左營方案,從頭到尾就是左營方案。結果7月11日跟我們講完,7月20日交通部馬上轉頭跟媒體說我們在評估高雄方案。那我當時就覺得說,欸?我是被耍了嗎?我是被鐵道局騙了嗎?還是鐵道局跟我們欺瞞了什麼?"},{"start":194.844,"end":201.754,"text":"這中間短短9天到底為什麼這麼如此重大的決策有這麼大的轉折可不可以請部長告訴我們到底這個中間關鍵是什麼"},{"start":205.74,"end":230.576,"text":"其實我所知道那個過程當中有左營方案有高雄方案其實同時還有另外兩個方案過去的討論其實有好幾個方案在討論還有小港潮州以及燕潮方案對還有燕潮方案那有幾個方案都在討論當中還沒有到最後定案那當時為什麼鐵道局說只有這個左營方案這個我不曉得那個過程但我所知道的是其實四個方案都在討論當中"},{"start":232.602,"end":234.284,"text":"我跟委員報告520之後很短的時間內李前部長曾經來報告過"},{"start":242.602,"end":271.554,"text":"高鐵南深到這個屏東這個方案提出的是4條線我想我也知道但是這個方案當中當時比較著重在左營跟高雄這兩個方案更北更南的那個他已經不考慮了那我們那時候給交通部的做法是說你要回到去到高雄跟當地的高雄市政府當地的民意代表地方人士在做廣泛的溝通因為這個變更算是"},{"start":272.134,"end":277.787,"text":"五二零之後做的這個工作或許那幾天就是在進行這樣的討論當中"},{"start":282.579,"end":309.653,"text":"好 謝謝院長的補充說明喔 喔 院長比部長還了解清 部長要回去加油了 這個我就是要再來詢問部長的喔 因為我這幾天都聽到說 交通部很認真的在跟地方收集意見 然後在跟地方做溝通 可是就我所知 至少我的選區 不管是市民 里長 議員 還是我本人 都沒有接到任何的溝通 請問你們是跟誰溝通 做了哪些溝通"},{"start":310.713,"end":321.843,"text":"報告委員,我們跟市府有做溝通這是一方面,二方面其實我們會來舉辦三場的專家學者會議,包含地方的意見的收容的會議。 什麼時候?我們在這個月就會來辦理。會到高雄辦嗎?"},{"start":324.441,"end":350.888,"text":"當然在高雄辦,三場都會在高雄辦那當然也會邀請委員跟地方的包含民意代表也好或者是里長也好大家一起來商討一起來討論好那拜託這三場會議一定要公告讓所有的高雄市民知道因為我必須要跟部長報告這個時候其實你我走到地方每一場活動都會有人來跟我說到底高雄這個高鐵的方案要走哪一個路線怎麼走"},{"start":351.328,"end":373.216,"text":"好,我說我跟交通部要報告都只有2020年的耶。 這四年來你們最新的進展我也都不知道耶。 所以我在這邊就是講給我們所有高雄的鄉親知道,現在交通部會如何來跟地方做溝通,這個非常非常重要,尤其中間一大段經過古山區嘛。 是。"},{"start":374.237,"end":375.518,"text":"我近期會請鐵道局趕快來跟委員報告這件事情,不好意思。"},{"start":392.739,"end":420.831,"text":"好謝謝部長我為什麼要在這邊特別提這件事情是因為前面我也講過這個脈絡了過去高雄其實承受非常多那在這20年來現在其實從2020年我看這個報告到現在我們高雄又有新的進展包括輕軌也完工了包括今年年底高雄車站的站體也要完工了然後這20年來台鐵地下化高雄承受的也夠多了"},{"start":421.718,"end":446.343,"text":"那如果我們在這個時候要進到市區是不是應該要跟大家做妥善的溝通包括說其實在這個可行性評估報告裡面我也細讀了在高雄方案其實有非常多要去克服的困難不只是技術上因為就我所知現在除了只有預留月台然後其實它有橫渡線的問題因為寬度不夠你可能要拉到戰後"},{"start":447.463,"end":475.836,"text":"那這是一個,然後包括裡面要拆遷的戶數,光是2020年要拆遷的戶數,目前就已經是69戶,那個就是資料上的,現在是不是有新增,不知道。明蛙的範圍多廣,跟當時評估的報告比起來是如何,這個都要去細算,包括我們現在新站體完成了,現在有兩大棟,就在高雄車站,請部長一定要來看一下,到時候如果明蛙的範圍影響到這兩棟,是不是還要拆掉在"},{"start":477.057,"end":478.198,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":494.756,"end":510.501,"text":"目前已經挖過的那一個路段現在成為綠園道非常的漂亮我們也會要求說對綠園道的影響要縮到最小然後對交通的影響我們也希望能夠做半半施工的方式就是說影響一半不要整個把人家堵住這個部分我們會去處理"},{"start":511.201,"end":527.756,"text":"在因為淺墩工法沒有討論過,大概拆遷的戶數會比過去再更少一些,因為我們用淺墩的方法也有可能會影響到我們借用地下的那個通路權,那另外就是有可能把它拆掉之後用督根的方式再幫它蓋回來,所以影響的範圍會是最小的。"},{"start":530.617,"end":555.707,"text":"這個請委員放心因為這些務必要讓所有的市民放心因為我必須要說啦一個很大的前提高雄市民非常期待中央給予重大建設在高雄一定都是正向看待因為高雄人過去委屈很久所以現在如果高鐵願意進到市區或願意在高雄多設一站我相信沒有高雄人會反對但是中間包括說這個工期可行性評估報告裡面寫14年"},{"start":558.197,"end":566.591,"text":"14年喔!高雄過去鐵路地下化已經20年那如果你現在又新增14年是不是又讓高雄人現在馬上"},{"start":568.154,"end":569.936,"text":"三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。"},{"start":594.258,"end":609.157,"text":"這個部分我們會盡量來努力影響最小的範圍之內來施工那過去我知道大家認為的那個黑暗期過去是那個鐵道地下化的整個過程那確實是整段都是民挖這第一點第二點除了民挖之外因為他的鐵軌還在運行"},{"start":610.539,"end":628.166,"text":"所以影響的範圍其實相對是大的那目前已經沒有鐵軌在運行了那我們再加上大量的潛墩的這個工法我相信這個影響會降到最小那我們會如果決定是高雄方案的話我們一定會跟高雄市民來承諾我們跟市政府這邊好好的配合影響大家生活最小的範圍之內來施工"},{"start":629.434,"end":649.787,"text":"好,謝謝部長的承諾,這個承諾非常重要,因為這個是高雄的百年大計,而且其實拉到高雄我相信也是有一部分的高雄人會覺得說這個可以均衡高雄南北的發展,而且對於產業的活絡,附近的商圈,一定都是有幫助的,大家樂見,但是以上的這一些過去的大家經歷的痛,"},{"start":651.068,"end":672.273,"text":"這一些承諾一定要由部長來盡力做到最大的協助。好,謝謝,非常感謝。那再來,最後一個部分我要來跟院長請求,因為其實我知道交通部算是非常的用心,在最近高雄有一個好消息,就是美聯航有來高雄設點,那這個當然是一大進展,可是還不夠。"},{"start":673.613,"end":700.6,"text":"還不夠是因為現在高雄的航班航點只有疫情前的七成那這個我相信大家都不夠滿意啦所以在這邊我也要跟拜託請部長回去努力一下也要跟院長在這邊請託是不是有機會讓高雄的航班不只是恢復到過去的百分之百的水準甚至可以再超越為什麼我說可以再超越是因為高雄是非常有市場的"},{"start":701.4,"end":719.536,"text":"因為其實目前高雄的這個航班的旅運量其實基本上都有7成5以上甚至是非日本東北亞這些都到9成以上班機是非常滿而且現在的轉機市場我相信大家也都有看到那過去在高雄其實都也非常有機會來做轉機市場"},{"start":721.963,"end":748.63,"text":"所以我希望的是不要放棄這個機會我相信現在華航長榮可能新宇都已經很積極的要投向轉機市場高雄有這個條件好不好這個可不可以來努力一下報告委員航班的部分我們正在努力目前恢復大概八成多但是航點確實只有七成那為什麼呢因為大量取消的是對岸的航點對岸的航點這個部分大概就有一些政治上的因素我們沒有辦法跟對岸來溝通"},{"start":749.77,"end":773.031,"text":"那另外的航點的部分我們正在努力因為委員們都很關心高雄幾乎每位委員都來談過沒錯我們希望能夠在飛一些長程的包含澳洲包含美國的這些航線我們正在努力當中那包含您在講的一些大型的這個航運的公司如果可以到高雄去拓展那當然更好那另外就是高雄可能機場可以作為東南亞的一個樞紐往東南亞的航線一個很重要的節點對這個部分我們會來努力"},{"start":777.179,"end":797.799,"text":"好那這個就期待我們交通部的好消息因為這個如果沒有你們來全力的協助我們也很難在這個市場上面有更多的拓展所以我希望說看什麼時候可以恢復到疫情前的這樣的航班航線航點然後也拓展新的點然後讓高雄成為新的轉機市場最棒的一個節點好不好"},{"start":798.379,"end":826.682,"text":"好那最後還有一點時間我也來跟院長來建議一下因為其實現在大家談淨零碳排那我知道的是現在航空業非常積極的要來做永續的燃油那我知道說現在桃園機場跟松山機場都有要來嘗試加中油的永續的燃油那是不是也我們回去把這個建議帶回去那是不是有機會把這樣的永續燃油還有相關的永續的建設"},{"start":827.583,"end":842.654,"text":"因為其實現在小港機場也正在有一新的工程嘛那是不是都把淨零碳排的概念帶進去我們可以走得更前面讓這個機場蓋好以及接下來使用的新的航班都可以有永續燃油以及有淨零碳排相關的設施在裡面"},{"start":843.456,"end":866.689,"text":"是的,航空的用油跟一般用油不一樣,它可以從回收的油品當中去做航空的用油。 那我們現在就是為了剛剛您說的要淨零碳排,要降低所有的使用量,所以這個部分過去合作的對象以及我們現在朝這個方向自己來看有沒有新的一個方向,這個是現在整個航空事業在努力的事情。"},{"start":867.554,"end":890.465,"text":"是,好,對,因為我知道的是目前其實我們有邀請中遊先幫我們幾個國籍的航空先試辦看看嘛,對,那我知道說目前如果連高雄的航班也都加入有沒有這樣的困難,或者是有沒有這樣的機會,如果可以的話是不是也請部長在這邊承諾接下來我們會讓高雄也來加入這個永續的行列?"},{"start":890.945,"end":906.725,"text":"是在技術產量品質都OK的情況之下我想都應該多多利用是我會請民航局趕快跟中油這邊來協調我們在高雄的這個機場的部分我們也來使用這個永續的燃油這個部分如果中油可以配合那民航局一定是樂觀其成"},{"start":907.447,"end":908.988,"text":"接下來有什麼消防機場的新的整個工程的規劃都應該要大幅的"},{"start":942.23,"end":942.511,"text":"謝謝黃委員、謝謝卓院長。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":198,"blocks":[["黃委員捷：（9時50分）謝謝主席，請院長及陳部長。"],["主席：卓院長，還有陳部長，請備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：黃委員好。"],["黃委員捷：院長好，部長好。首先請教一個我們所有高雄委員都在問的問題，就是高鐵進市區，其實高雄人都非常、非常關心，尤其現在談論的路線有經過我的選區，而且範圍非常大，我相信部長也知道。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["黃委員捷：當然前面大家都在提高鐵到底要不要進高雄市區，這個過去或許已經經歷過一個錯誤決策了，就是在2010年大家都會拿出來的公文，也就是時任馬政府時期的交通部長毛治國及葉匡時次長所簽下的這張公文。這張公文簽下去，對於高雄人來說，就是十幾年快二十年的痛，這個是老高雄人的痛，因為當時高雄車站裡面已經預留高鐵的月臺了，但是並沒有啟用，也沒有開始工程嘛！所以當時的錯誤決策使得這十幾年來大家都在討論為什麼沒有進到市區導致現在還要重啟這樣的討論？所以這是第一個，我必須要再次的說這個是當時的錯誤決策，如果當時有開始，或許現在早就從高雄車站可以三鐵共構了。再來是2020年，請看右邊這一張公文，這個是2020年再次重啟可行性評估，可是這個可行性評估裡都是用左營方案，對嗎？部長。"],["陳部長世凱：當時的討論是以左營為主。"],["黃委員捷：沒錯，在這個可行性評估裡面，我把全部的內容都讀完了，也把裡面所有方案做了一次比較，當時有提到是因為左營方案就工程技術面、用地拆遷面都相較高雄方案來得容易一點，還有經費啦！高雄人都說：喔！原來要走左營方案。可是直到今年2月開始有一些新的聲音出來，我不知道是到後面已經開始進行技術上更細緻的評估，發現左營方案其實不可行還是怎麼樣，所以到了7月，我跟李柏毅委員請鐵道局來跟我們說明到底現在遇到什麼困難了，是不是真的要變成走高雄方案了呢？結果當時鐵道局跟我們說什麼？他說沒有啊！只有左營方案，從頭到尾就是左營方案。結果7月11號跟我們講完，7月20號交通部馬上轉頭跟媒體說，他們在評估高雄方案。我當時就覺得我是被耍了嗎？我是被鐵道局騙了嗎？還是鐵道局跟我們欺瞞了什麼？這中間短短9天，到底為什麼如此重大的決策有這麼大的轉折？可不可以請部長告訴我們，到底這個中間關鍵是什麼？"],["陳部長世凱：其實我所知道那個過程當中，有左營方案、有高雄方案，同時還有另外兩個方案，過去的討論其實有好幾個方案在討論。"],["黃委員捷：是的，還有小港、潮州以及燕巢方案。"],["陳部長世凱：對，還有燕巢方案。有幾個方案都在討論當中，還沒有到最後定案。當時為什麼鐵道局說只有左營方案，這個我不曉得那個過程，但我所知道的是其實4個方案都在討論當中。"],["黃委員捷：部長，你不能不曉得，這個拜託你回去了解，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好，我回去了解。"],["卓院長榮泰：我跟委員報告，520之後，很短的時間內，以前部長曾經來報告過高鐵南伸到屏東方案，提出了4條線，我想委員也知道。"],["黃委員捷：是。"],["卓院長榮泰：但是4個方案當中，當時比較著重在左營跟高雄這兩個方案。"],["黃委員捷：確實。"],["卓院長榮泰：更北、更南的已經不考慮了，我們那時候給交通部的作法是，你要回到高雄跟當地的包括高雄市政府、民意代表、地方人士再做廣泛的溝通，因為這個變更算是大的。"],["黃委員捷：非常重大。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以他們有做這樣的工作，或許我說520之後做的這個工作，或許那幾天就是在進行這樣的討論當中，時間我沒辦法掌握。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝院長的補充說明，院長比部長還了解，請部長要回去加油了。"],["陳部長世凱：好，謝謝。"],["黃委員捷：這就是我要再來詢問部長的，因為我這幾天都聽到交通部很認真地在跟地方蒐集意見，然後在跟地方做溝通，可是就我所知，至少我的選區，不管是市民、里長、議員還是我本人都沒有接到任何的溝通，請問你們是跟誰溝通？做了哪些溝通？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我們跟市府有做溝通，這是一方面；二方面，我們會舉辦三場的專家學者會議，包含地方的意見收攏的會議。"],["黃委員捷：什麼時候？"],["陳部長世凱：我們在這個月就會來辦理，這個月就開始來辦理。"],["黃委員捷：會到高雄辦嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：當然在高雄辦，三場都會在高雄辦，當然也會邀請委員，跟地方的包含民意代表也好或是里長也好，大家一起來商討、一起來討論。"],["黃委員捷：好，拜託這三場會議一定要公告，讓所有的高雄市民知道。"],["陳部長世凱：這個一定的。"],["黃委員捷：因為我必須要跟部長報告，這個時候其實我走到地方每一場活動，都會有人來跟我說，到底高雄高鐵的方案要走哪一個路線、怎麼走，然後我說我跟交通部要報告都只有2020年的，這四年來你們最新的進展，我也都不知道耶！所以我在這邊就是講給我們所有高雄的鄉親知道，現在交通部會如何來跟地方做溝通，這個非常、非常重要，尤其中間一大段經過鼓山區嘛。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["黃委員捷：我不知道為什麼經過我的選區，可是到現在我什麼資料都沒有，我還只能看著2020年的舊資料來跟大家推估說目前大致上交通部的評估只有到這樣的地步。"],["陳部長世凱：抱歉，報告委員，我近期會請鐵道局趕快來跟委員報告這件事情，不好意思。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝部長。我為什麼要在這邊特別提這件事情？是因為前面我也講過這個脈絡了。過去高雄其實承受非常多，在這二十年來，其實從2020年，我看這個報告到現在，我們高雄又有新的進展，包括輕軌也完工了，包括今年年底高雄車站的站體也要完工了，然後這二十年來臺鐵地下化，高雄承受的也夠多了，如果我們在這個時候要進到市區，是不是應該要跟大家做妥善的溝通？其實這個可行性評估報告裡面我也細讀了，在高雄方案其實有非常多要去克服的困難，不只是技術上，因為就我所知，現在除了預留月臺，然後其實它有橫渡線的問題，因為寬度不夠，你可能要拉到站後，這是一個；包括要拆遷的戶數，光是2020年要拆遷的戶數就已經是69戶，那個就是資料上的，現在是不是有新增？不知道；明挖的範圍多廣，跟當時評估的報告比起來是如何，這個都要去細算，包括我們現在新站體完成了，現在有兩大棟就在高雄車站，請部長一定要來看一下，到時候如果明挖的範圍影響到這兩棟，是不是還要拆掉部分，然後要再重蓋？這個都是很大的問題啊！所以拜託以上講的這些……"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，您剛剛所說的那兩棟不會影響到，他們現在會用大量的潛盾工法，明挖會儘量減少，這是一個部分。"],["黃委員捷：一定要縮少到最小。"],["陳部長世凱：第二個部分就是，目前已經挖過的那一個路段，現在成為綠園道，非常地漂亮，我們也會要求對綠園道的影響要縮到最小，然後對交通的影響，我們也希望能夠做半半施工的方式，就是影響一半，不要整個把人家堵住，這個部分我們會去處理。再來，潛盾工法我們有討論過，大概拆遷的戶數會比過去再更少一些，因為我們用潛盾的方法，也有可能會影響到我們借用地下通路權；另外，有可能把它拆掉之後，用都更的方式再把它蓋回來，所以影響的範圍會是最小的，這個請委員放心。"],["黃委員捷：謝謝部長說明，因為這些務必要讓所有的市民放心。我必須要說一個很大的前提，高雄市民非常期待中央給予重大建設在高雄，一定都是正向看待，因為高雄人過去委屈很久，所以現在如果高鐵願意進到市區或願意在高雄多設一站，我相信沒有高雄人會反對，但是中間包括這個工期，可行性評估報告裡面寫14年，14年喔！高雄過去鐵路地下化已經20年，如果你現在又新增14年，是不是又讓高雄人不知道心情該是如何，非常地複雜。所以如果能夠像剛剛說的，明挖範圍縮到最小，拆遷戶數縮到最小，然後包括用最大量的潛盾，讓民眾可以接受在半半施工的情況下，交通黑暗期非常短，即便接下來可能工期14年，我不知道，但是絕對不會影響到市民的生活，這個是不是部長可以在這邊承諾？"],["陳部長世凱：是，這個部分我們會儘量來努力，影響最小的範圍之內來施工，我知道大家認為的那個黑暗期，過去是鐵道地下化的過程，那確實整段都是明挖，這是第一點；第二點，除了明挖之外，因為它的鐵軌還在運行，所以影響範圍其實相對是大的，目前已經沒有鐵軌在運行了，我們再加上大量的潛盾工法，我相信這個影響會降到最小。如果決定是高雄方案的話，我們一定會跟高雄市民承諾，我們跟市政府這邊好好的配合，在影響大家生活最小的範圍之內來施工。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝部長的承諾，這個承諾非常重要，因為這個是高雄的百年大計，其實拉到高雄，也是有一部分的高雄人覺得這個可以均衡高雄南北的發展，而且對於產業的活絡、附近的商圈一定都是有幫助的，大家樂見；但是以上這些大家過去心裡的痛，這些一定要由部長承諾盡力做到最大的協助。"],["陳部長世凱：好，這個我們來努力。"],["黃委員捷：謝謝，非常感謝！再來，最後一個部分我要跟院長請求，我知道交通部算是非常用心，最近高雄有一個好消息就是美聯航有來高雄設點，這個當然是一大進展，可是還不夠！還不夠是因為現在高雄的航班、航點只有疫情前的七成，這部分我相信大家都不夠滿意，所以在這邊我也要拜託部長回去努力一下，也要在這邊跟院長請託，是不是有機會讓高雄的航班不只是恢復到過去百分之百的水準，甚至可以再超越！","為什麼我說可以再超越？因為高雄是非常有市場的，其實目前高雄的航班旅運量基本上都有七成五以上，甚至飛日本、東北亞的這些都到九成以上，班機非常滿，而且現在的轉機市場我相信大家也都有看到，過去高雄其實也非常有機會來做轉機市場，所以我希望不要放棄這個機會，我相信現在華航、長榮，可能星宇都已經很積極的要投向轉機市場，高雄有這個條件，好不好？這個可不可以來努力一下？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，航班的部分我們正在努力，目前恢復大概八成多，但是航點確實只有七成。"],["黃委員捷：沒錯。"],["陳部長世凱：為什麼呢？因為大量取消的是對岸的航點，對岸的航點這個部分大概就有一些政治上的因素，我們沒有辦法跟對岸來溝通；其他航點的部分我們正在努力，因為委員們都很關心高雄，幾乎每位委員都來談過。"],["黃委員捷：沒錯。"],["陳部長世凱：我們希望能夠再飛一些長程的，包含澳洲、包含美國這些航線，我們正在努力當中，包含您講的一些大型航運公司如果可以到高雄去拓展那當然更好；另外，高雄的機場可能可以作為東南亞的一個樞紐，往東南亞的部分航線、新南向的航線……"],["黃委員捷：沒錯，新南向一個很重要的節點。"],["陳部長世凱：對，這個部分我們會來努力。"],["黃委員捷：好，這個就期待我們交通部的好消息，因為這個如果沒有你們來全力協助，我們也很難在這個市場上面有更多的拓展，所以看什麼時候可以恢復到疫情前的航班、航線、航點，然後也拓展新的點，讓高雄成為新的轉機市場中最棒的一個節點，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["黃委員捷：最後還有一點時間，我也來跟院長建議一下，現在大家談淨零碳排，我知道現在航空業非常積極要來做永續燃油，現在桃園機場跟松山機場都要嘗試加中油的永續燃油，請把這個建議帶回去，是不是有機會把這樣的永續燃油還有相關的永續建設……因為現在小港機場也有新的工程，那是不是都把淨零碳排的概念帶進去？我們可以走得更前面，讓這個機場蓋好以及接下來使用的新航班都可以有永續燃油以及有淨零碳排相關的設施在裡面？"],["卓院長榮泰：是的，航空用油跟一般用油不一樣，它可以從回收的油品當中去做航空的用油，我們現在為了剛剛您說的要淨零碳排、要降低所有的使用量，這個部分有過去合作的對象，以及我們現在朝這個方向自己來看有沒有新的一個方向，這個是現在整個航空事業在努力的事情。"],["黃委員捷：對，因為我知道的是，目前我們其實有邀請中油先幫幾個國籍航空先試辦看看，如果連高雄的航班也都加入有沒有困難？或者是有沒有這樣的機會？如果可以的話，是不是也請部長在這邊承諾，接下來我們會讓高雄也來加入這個永續的行列？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，在技術、產量、品質都OK的情況之下，我想都應該多多利用。"],["陳部長世凱：是，我會請民航局趕快跟中油這邊來協調，在高雄機場的部分也來使用永續的燃油，這個部分如果中油可以配合，那民航局一定是樂觀其成。"],["黃委員捷：謝謝，非常感謝部長。另外一個部分就是韌性機場，因為最近國際上有非常多的機場都因為極端氣候，造成了一些影響，不管是關西機場之前淹大水，還是倫敦的機場跑道因為太高溫然後融化，像這種情況其實臺灣也都很有可能面臨挑戰，接下來尤其是我們小港機場整個新工程的規劃，都應該要納入韌性機場一些設施的設計標準。"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，謝謝委員的提醒。"],["黃委員捷：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃委員、謝謝卓院長。","委員李坤城之質詢以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員李坤城書面質詢：","賴清德總統的政策宣示，除了尚未執行完畢、114年度仍須繼續執行的延續性編列特別預算計劃外，不再新增任何特別預算計畫。因前瞻計畫餘額114年僅剩703億，原納入前瞻計畫未及編列的預算，114年都回歸公務預算的公共建設支出。","以交通部為例，因前瞻計畫移入，使交通部主管預算從1,190億增加至1,579億，成長率為32.7%，相較於114年總預算歲出成長率為9.8%，顯然高出很多。檢視5個都會地區的捷運計畫，由前瞻預算改列公務預算，114年的編列情況：","1.臺北都會區大眾捷運系統環狀線北環段及南環段，中央負擔326.9億，108年至113年度已編列55.6億，114年度續編13億，還差258.3億。","2.臺北都會區大眾捷運系統三鶯線，中央款負擔185.4億，105至113年度已編列133.1億，114年續編9億，還差43.3億。","3.桃園都會區大眾捷運系統航空城捷運線，中央負擔397.4億，104至113年度已編列210億，114年度續編17億，還差170.4億。","4.臺中捷運藍線建設計畫，中央負擔675.5億，110至113年度已編列6億，114年度續編5億，還差664.5億。","5.高雄都會區大眾捷運系統都會線（黃線），中央負擔833.8億，109至113年度已編列27.5億，114年度續編30億，還差776.3億。","5個都會地區的捷運計畫，114年也只編了74億，未來還要編列1,912.8億，若連同台鐵立體化工程補助，當所有其他軌道建設的補助，來到編列高峰期時，在沒有特別預算的情況下，勢必排擠其他交通部其它的預算。","本席所當心就是停車場興建補助，在前瞻預算計畫中，原規劃200億元，後修正新增60億元共有260億元，但這些額度已於112年4月前就核撥完畢，顯見各地方政府的需求。以新北市為例，中央共補助25件，金額為45.04億元，若沒有前瞻預算補助，以新北市的財政能力，這些停車場要延後很多年。","以本席的選區新北市三重區為例，停車需求一直無法得到滿足，雖然前瞻預算已經補助6座停車場，但仍有5座等待補助興建。本席於今年6月於卓院長上任的施政總質詢時，建議要繼續編列停車場興建補助預算。前瞻特別預算第5期114年預算中，匡列了41億停車興建補助經費，但這些都已經核撥完畢了。","新北市三重區需要中央補助興建之停車場，這5座所需的中央補助經費就高達17億多。要等待前瞻預算的結餘款，幾乎沒有機會，若要以地方財源來興建，興建的時程必定延宕很多年，無法紓解目前三重地區停車困難的問題。","目前，交通部已經呈報「改善停車問題計畫第3次修正計畫」給行政院，將計畫時程延至118年，並再增加60億經費，將總經費提高到320億，爰要求行政院能夠依交通部計畫，早日核定，讓地方政府能夠依財政能力，提早規劃申請補助的時程，同時，也要求行政院繼續滾動式檢討，適時調整並增加補助停車場興建的經費額度。"],["主席：下一位請邱志偉委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":195,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-5","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","賴瑞隆","陳亭妃","陳俊宇","黃捷","李坤城","邱志偉","魯明哲","林沛祥","黃珊珊","陳昭姿","林憶君","羅廷瑋","范雲","李彥秀","王世堅","盧縣一","邱若華","葉元之","何欣純","徐欣瑩","羅美玲","劉建國"],"page_start":109,"meetingDate":["2024-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1138101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138101_00004","1138101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第5次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─ 詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138101_00009"}}}