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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:12,062 --> 00:00:15,509\n主席各位官員大家好還有有請部長請蔡部長\n\n2\n00:00:22,670 --> 00:00:46,605\n部長您辛苦了從今天早上一直到現在其實我想委員們問的問題都差不多尤其是針對這次凱凱被保母虐死案然後後續又延伸了社工的這個被具體上銬的這個問題也引起了社工界的很大的反應那麼大家認為說這個在僅僅\n\n3\n00:00:49,332 --> 00:00:49,352\n麻煩這個\n\n4\n00:01:16,977 --> 00:01:20,580\n下一頁圖表我想在刑事訴訟法裡面其實也規定得很清楚對於要進行拘提他其實有要進行一定的步驟有一些條件的如果說是以今天社工的情況他其實都已經到了警察局\n\n5\n00:01:39,616 --> 00:01:48,587\n也到那裡去進行案情的說明那麼就算是檢察官之前有開G票可是這樣子的做法是正確的嗎?\n\n6\n00:01:50,547 --> 00:02:12,139\n在法律上他是可以這樣做的是可是這樣的話有沒有逾越了他的逾越比例原則我們可以看一下其實在現行的法律裡面的規定就是除非是這個被告的犯罪嫌疑重大然後有符合一定的條件必要的時候才可以不經傳喚進行拘提可是今天的情況就是說這個社工\n\n7\n00:02:13,260 --> 00:02:29,649\n他已經都到警局而且呢看起來也都很配合可是我們警方卻這個仍然是當時這個有核發這個拘票這樣子的行為是不是已經違反了這個已經違反了檢察官這個一般辦案的這樣做法\n\n8\n00:02:37,054 --> 00:03:00,275\n法律上它是合法的但是有沒有比例原則上這個考量那這個是可以在個案上判斷那請問過去檢察署這邊曾經有針對檢察官這個就不法的去合法拘票的這件事情有進行過內部的檢討嗎或是你們有訂定過什麼樣的一個注意事項嗎\n\n9\n00:03:02,368 --> 00:03:25,258\n針對G票的問題當然很少看到說有不合法的因為畢竟法律對檢察官來講他個案的處理他經驗很豐富而且還有主任檢察官還有相岳還有檢察長在督導所以個案上並沒有看到說有違法的所以你們過去都沒有發現過就是說有檢察官有濫發G票的這樣的狀況\n\n10\n00:03:29,771 --> 00:03:38,901\n據我所知是沒有因為這樣我認為其實這這麼多年來一定會有檢查關係也許有但是我想沒有說拿出來檢討要處罰的\n\n11\n00:03:41,139 --> 00:03:49,969\n但是從這個案子裡面其實就已經凸顯出其實檢察官是不是有濫發G票的一個問題那麼在過去我們其實常看到新聞上面都有這樣的一個問題的產生所以我希望法務部能夠針對這個檢查發G票的\n\n12\n00:04:00,741 --> 00:04:01,222\n這次也是社會大眾對於我們的這個\n\n13\n00:04:28,755 --> 00:04:28,775\n請問財良權．\n\n14\n00:04:57,814 --> 00:05:17,467\n這個部分在過去的檢察署這邊是怎麼樣的或是警察單位因為執行是在警察所以他要看判斷當時的狀況是不是有這個必要的情形所以就這次的社工的情況來說您認為他有必要要上手銬嗎\n\n15\n00:05:18,786 --> 00:05:22,089\n是今天警政署也有來嗎?警政署的代表請巨量上台是\n\n16\n00:05:40,231 --> 00:05:54,589\n報告委員我是刑事警察局局長周又偉這個案子因為是當時是依據檢察官的拘票來執行這樣一個具體的行動這個具體我們自己有一個辦法是執行具體逮捕、借送\n\n17\n00:05:55,310 --> 00:06:17,312\n然後那個使用借據實施辦法裡面那這裡面就講說如果我們是這個執行具體逮捕的話是可以用這個手銬但是這個是不能使用這個借據當作作為懲罰的方法同時呢這裡有提到就是說要遵守比例原則不能逾越必要的程度\n\n18\n00:06:17,512 --> 00:06:32,572\n是,謝謝局長的這個解說那很重要就其實在刑事訴訟法裡面就已經講了你就算是要使用借據要符合比例原則而且也必須要注意到被告或犯罪嫌疑人的身體及名譽要避免他公然暴露\n\n19\n00:06:33,473 --> 00:06:33,753\n委員會主席\n\n20\n00:06:56,667 --> 00:07:15,264\n上課之後他有沒有注意到其實也是要維護到社工的名譽而應該要做一個適當的遮掩但這個部分其實看起來警察是都沒有做到從一開始我們剛剛講是不是使用拘票然後之後再\n\n21\n00:07:18,386 --> 00:07:38,038\n他可不可以上告其實這一連串的問題都凸顯出我們的檢警單位在針對這種犯罪嫌疑人的時候其實做法上面是有違我們現在法律裡面所規定的而且就整個比例原則的判斷來講看起來是有明顯的一個\n\n22\n00:07:39,079 --> 00:07:39,139\n李慧琼議員\n\n23\n00:07:59,774 --> 00:08:25,867\n記者在門外守候而且直接的拍攝那麼這個有關於偵查不公開的作業部分看起來法務部其實自己本身是有訂定偵查不公開作業辦法可是我大致上看一下這個應該說有這個看了這個偵查不公開作業辦法其實裡面的規定其實都很抽象那不知道這個為什麼就是就法務部這邊沒有要求各個\n\n24\n00:08:26,707 --> 00:08:27,088\n請教部長為什麼沒有在\n\n25\n00:08:48,280 --> 00:09:15,678\n我們內部也有一些相關的規定但是偵查不公開作為辦法其實就是很明確的訂定哪些是可以公開哪些不可以公開甚至說要設置一個場所來接受採訪以發言人的制度來對外說明這個我們都有很明確的要求要遵守這個規定我現在看到的只有設置發言的場所但是對於更細節的部分\n\n26\n00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:18,200\n法務部部長\n\n27\n00:09:38,740 --> 00:10:06,995\n參考警政署所定的注意要點自己的檢調機關也應該要訂定類似的要點還有就是說在之前剛剛前面幾位委員有講的其實你們針對偵查不公開也有進行定期的檢討可是很有趣的就是不管是在高檢署、法務部等等自己內部所進行的檢討的案件數非常多但是實際上真的有被處罰的人數卻非常非常少那麼所以我就不知道你們\n\n28\n00:10:07,415 --> 00:10:12,336\n檢討數字多是因為它收集所有報導出來的有關案件的這些文章或是報導內容都要來檢討所以它案件很多因為每一天報紙都有很多個案的一個報導\n\n29\n00:10:36,363 --> 00:11:02,415\n那至於這些是不是有涉及到偵查不公開案件自然會變少那這個少數但是我們還是很深入去探討有沒有違反要負責任的是我認為說可能你們檢討小組裡面也出了一些問題如果說都是自己內部的人在進行檢討而沒有引進引入外部的專家學者甚至媒體一起來進入來討論的話那麼我認為說這樣的偵查不公開可能你未來就算是\n\n30\n00:11:05,276 --> 00:11:05,316\n展覽委員會議\n\n31\n00:11:28,957 --> 00:11:28,977\n謝謝請回\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12062\t15509\t主席各位官員大家好還有有請部長請蔡部長\n22670\t46605\t部長您辛苦了從今天早上一直到現在其實我想委員們問的問題都差不多尤其是針對這次凱凱被保母虐死案然後後續又延伸了社工的這個被具體上銬的這個問題也引起了社工界的很大的反應那麼大家認為說這個在僅僅\n49332\t49352\t麻煩這個\n76977\t80580\t下一頁圖表我想在刑事訴訟法裡面其實也規定得很清楚對於要進行拘提他其實有要進行一定的步驟有一些條件的如果說是以今天社工的情況他其實都已經到了警察局\n99616\t108587\t也到那裡去進行案情的說明那麼就算是檢察官之前有開G票可是這樣子的做法是正確的嗎?\n110547\t132139\t在法律上他是可以這樣做的是可是這樣的話有沒有逾越了他的逾越比例原則我們可以看一下其實在現行的法律裡面的規定就是除非是這個被告的犯罪嫌疑重大然後有符合一定的條件必要的時候才可以不經傳喚進行拘提可是今天的情況就是說這個社工\n133260\t149649\t他已經都到警局而且呢看起來也都很配合可是我們警方卻這個仍然是當時這個有核發這個拘票這樣子的行為是不是已經違反了這個已經違反了檢察官這個一般辦案的這樣做法\n157054\t180275\t法律上它是合法的但是有沒有比例原則上這個考量那這個是可以在個案上判斷那請問過去檢察署這邊曾經有針對檢察官這個就不法的去合法拘票的這件事情有進行過內部的檢討嗎或是你們有訂定過什麼樣的一個注意事項嗎\n182368\t205258\t針對G票的問題當然很少看到說有不合法的因為畢竟法律對檢察官來講他個案的處理他經驗很豐富而且還有主任檢察官還有相岳還有檢察長在督導所以個案上並沒有看到說有違法的所以你們過去都沒有發現過就是說有檢察官有濫發G票的這樣的狀況\n209771\t218901\t據我所知是沒有因為這樣我認為其實這這麼多年來一定會有檢查關係也許有但是我想沒有說拿出來檢討要處罰的\n221139\t229969\t但是從這個案子裡面其實就已經凸顯出其實檢察官是不是有濫發G票的一個問題那麼在過去我們其實常看到新聞上面都有這樣的一個問題的產生所以我希望法務部能夠針對這個檢查發G票的\n240741\t241222\t這次也是社會大眾對於我們的這個\n268755\t268775\t請問財良權．\n297814\t317467\t這個部分在過去的檢察署這邊是怎麼樣的或是警察單位因為執行是在警察所以他要看判斷當時的狀況是不是有這個必要的情形所以就這次的社工的情況來說您認為他有必要要上手銬嗎\n318786\t322089\t是今天警政署也有來嗎?警政署的代表請巨量上台是\n340231\t354589\t報告委員我是刑事警察局局長周又偉這個案子因為是當時是依據檢察官的拘票來執行這樣一個具體的行動這個具體我們自己有一個辦法是執行具體逮捕、借送\n355310\t377312\t然後那個使用借據實施辦法裡面那這裡面就講說如果我們是這個執行具體逮捕的話是可以用這個手銬但是這個是不能使用這個借據當作作為懲罰的方法同時呢這裡有提到就是說要遵守比例原則不能逾越必要的程度\n377512\t392572\t是,謝謝局長的這個解說那很重要就其實在刑事訴訟法裡面就已經講了你就算是要使用借據要符合比例原則而且也必須要注意到被告或犯罪嫌疑人的身體及名譽要避免他公然暴露\n393473\t393753\t委員會主席\n416667\t435264\t上課之後他有沒有注意到其實也是要維護到社工的名譽而應該要做一個適當的遮掩但這個部分其實看起來警察是都沒有做到從一開始我們剛剛講是不是使用拘票然後之後再\n438386\t458038\t他可不可以上告其實這一連串的問題都凸顯出我們的檢警單位在針對這種犯罪嫌疑人的時候其實做法上面是有違我們現在法律裡面所規定的而且就整個比例原則的判斷來講看起來是有明顯的一個\n459079\t459139\t李慧琼議員\n479774\t505867\t記者在門外守候而且直接的拍攝那麼這個有關於偵查不公開的作業部分看起來法務部其實自己本身是有訂定偵查不公開作業辦法可是我大致上看一下這個應該說有這個看了這個偵查不公開作業辦法其實裡面的規定其實都很抽象那不知道這個為什麼就是就法務部這邊沒有要求各個\n506707\t507088\t請教部長為什麼沒有在\n528280\t555678\t我們內部也有一些相關的規定但是偵查不公開作為辦法其實就是很明確的訂定哪些是可以公開哪些不可以公開甚至說要設置一個場所來接受採訪以發言人的制度來對外說明這個我們都有很明確的要求要遵守這個規定我現在看到的只有設置發言的場所但是對於更細節的部分\n558080\t558200\t法務部部長\n578740\t606995\t參考警政署所定的注意要點自己的檢調機關也應該要訂定類似的要點還有就是說在之前剛剛前面幾位委員有講的其實你們針對偵查不公開也有進行定期的檢討可是很有趣的就是不管是在高檢署、法務部等等自己內部所進行的檢討的案件數非常多但是實際上真的有被處罰的人數卻非常非常少那麼所以我就不知道你們\n607415\t612336\t檢討數字多是因為它收集所有報導出來的有關案件的這些文章或是報導內容都要來檢討所以它案件很多因為每一天報紙都有很多個案的一個報導\n636363\t662415\t那至於這些是不是有涉及到偵查不公開案件自然會變少那這個少數但是我們還是很深入去探討有沒有違反要負責任的是我認為說可能你們檢討小組裡面也出了一些問題如果說都是自己內部的人在進行檢討而沒有引進引入外部的專家學者甚至媒體一起來進入來討論的話那麼我認為說這樣的偵查不公開可能你未來就算是\n665276\t665316\t展覽委員會議\n688957\t688977\t謝謝請回\n","txt":"主席各位官員大家好還有有請部長請蔡部長\n部長您辛苦了從今天早上一直到現在其實我想委員們問的問題都差不多尤其是針對這次凱凱被保母虐死案然後後續又延伸了社工的這個被具體上銬的這個問題也引起了社工界的很大的反應那麼大家認為說這個在僅僅\n麻煩這個\n下一頁圖表我想在刑事訴訟法裡面其實也規定得很清楚對於要進行拘提他其實有要進行一定的步驟有一些條件的如果說是以今天社工的情況他其實都已經到了警察局\n也到那裡去進行案情的說明那麼就算是檢察官之前有開G票可是這樣子的做法是正確的嗎?\n在法律上他是可以這樣做的是可是這樣的話有沒有逾越了他的逾越比例原則我們可以看一下其實在現行的法律裡面的規定就是除非是這個被告的犯罪嫌疑重大然後有符合一定的條件必要的時候才可以不經傳喚進行拘提可是今天的情況就是說這個社工\n他已經都到警局而且呢看起來也都很配合可是我們警方卻這個仍然是當時這個有核發這個拘票這樣子的行為是不是已經違反了這個已經違反了檢察官這個一般辦案的這樣做法\n法律上它是合法的但是有沒有比例原則上這個考量那這個是可以在個案上判斷那請問過去檢察署這邊曾經有針對檢察官這個就不法的去合法拘票的這件事情有進行過內部的檢討嗎或是你們有訂定過什麼樣的一個注意事項嗎\n針對G票的問題當然很少看到說有不合法的因為畢竟法律對檢察官來講他個案的處理他經驗很豐富而且還有主任檢察官還有相岳還有檢察長在督導所以個案上並沒有看到說有違法的所以你們過去都沒有發現過就是說有檢察官有濫發G票的這樣的狀況\n據我所知是沒有因為這樣我認為其實這這麼多年來一定會有檢查關係也許有但是我想沒有說拿出來檢討要處罰的\n但是從這個案子裡面其實就已經凸顯出其實檢察官是不是有濫發G票的一個問題那麼在過去我們其實常看到新聞上面都有這樣的一個問題的產生所以我希望法務部能夠針對這個檢查發G票的\n這次也是社會大眾對於我們的這個\n請問財良權．\n這個部分在過去的檢察署這邊是怎麼樣的或是警察單位因為執行是在警察所以他要看判斷當時的狀況是不是有這個必要的情形所以就這次的社工的情況來說您認為他有必要要上手銬嗎\n是今天警政署也有來嗎?警政署的代表請巨量上台是\n報告委員我是刑事警察局局長周又偉這個案子因為是當時是依據檢察官的拘票來執行這樣一個具體的行動這個具體我們自己有一個辦法是執行具體逮捕、借送\n然後那個使用借據實施辦法裡面那這裡面就講說如果我們是這個執行具體逮捕的話是可以用這個手銬但是這個是不能使用這個借據當作作為懲罰的方法同時呢這裡有提到就是說要遵守比例原則不能逾越必要的程度\n是,謝謝局長的這個解說那很重要就其實在刑事訴訟法裡面就已經講了你就算是要使用借據要符合比例原則而且也必須要注意到被告或犯罪嫌疑人的身體及名譽要避免他公然暴露\n委員會主席\n上課之後他有沒有注意到其實也是要維護到社工的名譽而應該要做一個適當的遮掩但這個部分其實看起來警察是都沒有做到從一開始我們剛剛講是不是使用拘票然後之後再\n他可不可以上告其實這一連串的問題都凸顯出我們的檢警單位在針對這種犯罪嫌疑人的時候其實做法上面是有違我們現在法律裡面所規定的而且就整個比例原則的判斷來講看起來是有明顯的一個\n李慧琼議員\n記者在門外守候而且直接的拍攝那麼這個有關於偵查不公開的作業部分看起來法務部其實自己本身是有訂定偵查不公開作業辦法可是我大致上看一下這個應該說有這個看了這個偵查不公開作業辦法其實裡面的規定其實都很抽象那不知道這個為什麼就是就法務部這邊沒有要求各個\n請教部長為什麼沒有在\n我們內部也有一些相關的規定但是偵查不公開作為辦法其實就是很明確的訂定哪些是可以公開哪些不可以公開甚至說要設置一個場所來接受採訪以發言人的制度來對外說明這個我們都有很明確的要求要遵守這個規定我現在看到的只有設置發言的場所但是對於更細節的部分\n法務部部長\n參考警政署所定的注意要點自己的檢調機關也應該要訂定類似的要點還有就是說在之前剛剛前面幾位委員有講的其實你們針對偵查不公開也有進行定期的檢討可是很有趣的就是不管是在高檢署、法務部等等自己內部所進行的檢討的案件數非常多但是實際上真的有被處罰的人數卻非常非常少那麼所以我就不知道你們\n檢討數字多是因為它收集所有報導出來的有關案件的這些文章或是報導內容都要來檢討所以它案件很多因為每一天報紙都有很多個案的一個報導\n那至於這些是不是有涉及到偵查不公開案件自然會變少那這個少數但是我們還是很深入去探討有沒有違反要負責任的是我認為說可能你們檢討小組裡面也出了一些問題如果說都是自己內部的人在進行檢討而沒有引進引入外部的專家學者甚至媒體一起來進入來討論的話那麼我認為說這樣的偵查不公開可能你未來就算是\n展覽委員會議\n謝謝請回\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.062 --> 00:15.509\n主席各位官員大家好還有有請部長請蔡部長\n\n00:22.670 --> 00:46.605\n部長您辛苦了從今天早上一直到現在其實我想委員們問的問題都差不多尤其是針對這次凱凱被保母虐死案然後後續又延伸了社工的這個被具體上銬的這個問題也引起了社工界的很大的反應那麼大家認為說這個在僅僅\n\n00:49.332 --> 00:49.352\n麻煩這個\n\n01:16.977 --> 01:20.580\n下一頁圖表我想在刑事訴訟法裡面其實也規定得很清楚對於要進行拘提他其實有要進行一定的步驟有一些條件的如果說是以今天社工的情況他其實都已經到了警察局\n\n01:39.616 --> 01:48.587\n也到那裡去進行案情的說明那麼就算是檢察官之前有開G票可是這樣子的做法是正確的嗎?\n\n01:50.547 --> 02:12.139\n在法律上他是可以這樣做的是可是這樣的話有沒有逾越了他的逾越比例原則我們可以看一下其實在現行的法律裡面的規定就是除非是這個被告的犯罪嫌疑重大然後有符合一定的條件必要的時候才可以不經傳喚進行拘提可是今天的情況就是說這個社工\n\n02:13.260 --> 02:29.649\n他已經都到警局而且呢看起來也都很配合可是我們警方卻這個仍然是當時這個有核發這個拘票這樣子的行為是不是已經違反了這個已經違反了檢察官這個一般辦案的這樣做法\n\n02:37.054 --> 03:00.275\n法律上它是合法的但是有沒有比例原則上這個考量那這個是可以在個案上判斷那請問過去檢察署這邊曾經有針對檢察官這個就不法的去合法拘票的這件事情有進行過內部的檢討嗎或是你們有訂定過什麼樣的一個注意事項嗎\n\n03:02.368 --> 03:25.258\n針對G票的問題當然很少看到說有不合法的因為畢竟法律對檢察官來講他個案的處理他經驗很豐富而且還有主任檢察官還有相岳還有檢察長在督導所以個案上並沒有看到說有違法的所以你們過去都沒有發現過就是說有檢察官有濫發G票的這樣的狀況\n\n03:29.771 --> 03:38.901\n據我所知是沒有因為這樣我認為其實這這麼多年來一定會有檢查關係也許有但是我想沒有說拿出來檢討要處罰的\n\n03:41.139 --> 03:49.969\n但是從這個案子裡面其實就已經凸顯出其實檢察官是不是有濫發G票的一個問題那麼在過去我們其實常看到新聞上面都有這樣的一個問題的產生所以我希望法務部能夠針對這個檢查發G票的\n\n04:00.741 --> 04:01.222\n這次也是社會大眾對於我們的這個\n\n04:28.755 --> 04:28.775\n請問財良權．\n\n04:57.814 --> 05:17.467\n這個部分在過去的檢察署這邊是怎麼樣的或是警察單位因為執行是在警察所以他要看判斷當時的狀況是不是有這個必要的情形所以就這次的社工的情況來說您認為他有必要要上手銬嗎\n\n05:18.786 --> 05:22.089\n是今天警政署也有來嗎?警政署的代表請巨量上台是\n\n05:40.231 --> 05:54.589\n報告委員我是刑事警察局局長周又偉這個案子因為是當時是依據檢察官的拘票來執行這樣一個具體的行動這個具體我們自己有一個辦法是執行具體逮捕、借送\n\n05:55.310 --> 06:17.312\n然後那個使用借據實施辦法裡面那這裡面就講說如果我們是這個執行具體逮捕的話是可以用這個手銬但是這個是不能使用這個借據當作作為懲罰的方法同時呢這裡有提到就是說要遵守比例原則不能逾越必要的程度\n\n06:17.512 --> 06:32.572\n是,謝謝局長的這個解說那很重要就其實在刑事訴訟法裡面就已經講了你就算是要使用借據要符合比例原則而且也必須要注意到被告或犯罪嫌疑人的身體及名譽要避免他公然暴露\n\n06:33.473 --> 06:33.753\n委員會主席\n\n06:56.667 --> 07:15.264\n上課之後他有沒有注意到其實也是要維護到社工的名譽而應該要做一個適當的遮掩但這個部分其實看起來警察是都沒有做到從一開始我們剛剛講是不是使用拘票然後之後再\n\n07:18.386 --> 07:38.038\n他可不可以上告其實這一連串的問題都凸顯出我們的檢警單位在針對這種犯罪嫌疑人的時候其實做法上面是有違我們現在法律裡面所規定的而且就整個比例原則的判斷來講看起來是有明顯的一個\n\n07:39.079 --> 07:39.139\n李慧琼議員\n\n07:59.774 --> 08:25.867\n記者在門外守候而且直接的拍攝那麼這個有關於偵查不公開的作業部分看起來法務部其實自己本身是有訂定偵查不公開作業辦法可是我大致上看一下這個應該說有這個看了這個偵查不公開作業辦法其實裡面的規定其實都很抽象那不知道這個為什麼就是就法務部這邊沒有要求各個\n\n08:26.707 --> 08:27.088\n請教部長為什麼沒有在\n\n08:48.280 --> 09:15.678\n我們內部也有一些相關的規定但是偵查不公開作為辦法其實就是很明確的訂定哪些是可以公開哪些不可以公開甚至說要設置一個場所來接受採訪以發言人的制度來對外說明這個我們都有很明確的要求要遵守這個規定我現在看到的只有設置發言的場所但是對於更細節的部分\n\n09:18.080 --> 09:18.200\n法務部部長\n\n09:38.740 --> 10:06.995\n參考警政署所定的注意要點自己的檢調機關也應該要訂定類似的要點還有就是說在之前剛剛前面幾位委員有講的其實你們針對偵查不公開也有進行定期的檢討可是很有趣的就是不管是在高檢署、法務部等等自己內部所進行的檢討的案件數非常多但是實際上真的有被處罰的人數卻非常非常少那麼所以我就不知道你們\n\n10:07.415 --> 10:12.336\n檢討數字多是因為它收集所有報導出來的有關案件的這些文章或是報導內容都要來檢討所以它案件很多因為每一天報紙都有很多個案的一個報導\n\n10:36.363 --> 11:02.415\n那至於這些是不是有涉及到偵查不公開案件自然會變少那這個少數但是我們還是很深入去探討有沒有違反要負責任的是我認為說可能你們檢討小組裡面也出了一些問題如果說都是自己內部的人在進行檢討而沒有引進引入外部的專家學者甚至媒體一起來進入來討論的話那麼我認為說這樣的偵查不公開可能你未來就算是\n\n11:05.276 --> 11:05.316\n展覽委員會議\n\n11:28.957 --> 11:28.977\n謝謝請回\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.062,"end":15.509,"text":"主席各位官員大家好還有有請部長請蔡部長"},{"start":22.67,"end":46.605,"text":"部長您辛苦了從今天早上一直到現在其實我想委員們問的問題都差不多尤其是針對這次凱凱被保母虐死案然後後續又延伸了社工的這個被具體上銬的這個問題也引起了社工界的很大的反應那麼大家認為說這個在僅僅"},{"start":49.332,"end":49.352,"text":"麻煩這個"},{"start":76.977,"end":80.58,"text":"下一頁圖表我想在刑事訴訟法裡面其實也規定得很清楚對於要進行拘提他其實有要進行一定的步驟有一些條件的如果說是以今天社工的情況他其實都已經到了警察局"},{"start":99.616,"end":108.587,"text":"也到那裡去進行案情的說明那麼就算是檢察官之前有開G票可是這樣子的做法是正確的嗎?"},{"start":110.547,"end":132.139,"text":"在法律上他是可以這樣做的是可是這樣的話有沒有逾越了他的逾越比例原則我們可以看一下其實在現行的法律裡面的規定就是除非是這個被告的犯罪嫌疑重大然後有符合一定的條件必要的時候才可以不經傳喚進行拘提可是今天的情況就是說這個社工"},{"start":133.26,"end":149.649,"text":"他已經都到警局而且呢看起來也都很配合可是我們警方卻這個仍然是當時這個有核發這個拘票這樣子的行為是不是已經違反了這個已經違反了檢察官這個一般辦案的這樣做法"},{"start":157.054,"end":180.275,"text":"法律上它是合法的但是有沒有比例原則上這個考量那這個是可以在個案上判斷那請問過去檢察署這邊曾經有針對檢察官這個就不法的去合法拘票的這件事情有進行過內部的檢討嗎或是你們有訂定過什麼樣的一個注意事項嗎"},{"start":182.368,"end":205.258,"text":"針對G票的問題當然很少看到說有不合法的因為畢竟法律對檢察官來講他個案的處理他經驗很豐富而且還有主任檢察官還有相岳還有檢察長在督導所以個案上並沒有看到說有違法的所以你們過去都沒有發現過就是說有檢察官有濫發G票的這樣的狀況"},{"start":209.771,"end":218.901,"text":"據我所知是沒有因為這樣我認為其實這這麼多年來一定會有檢查關係也許有但是我想沒有說拿出來檢討要處罰的"},{"start":221.139,"end":229.969,"text":"但是從這個案子裡面其實就已經凸顯出其實檢察官是不是有濫發G票的一個問題那麼在過去我們其實常看到新聞上面都有這樣的一個問題的產生所以我希望法務部能夠針對這個檢查發G票的"},{"start":240.741,"end":241.222,"text":"這次也是社會大眾對於我們的這個"},{"start":268.755,"end":268.775,"text":"請問財良權．"},{"start":297.814,"end":317.467,"text":"這個部分在過去的檢察署這邊是怎麼樣的或是警察單位因為執行是在警察所以他要看判斷當時的狀況是不是有這個必要的情形所以就這次的社工的情況來說您認為他有必要要上手銬嗎"},{"start":318.786,"end":322.089,"text":"是今天警政署也有來嗎?警政署的代表請巨量上台是"},{"start":340.231,"end":354.589,"text":"報告委員我是刑事警察局局長周又偉這個案子因為是當時是依據檢察官的拘票來執行這樣一個具體的行動這個具體我們自己有一個辦法是執行具體逮捕、借送"},{"start":355.31,"end":377.312,"text":"然後那個使用借據實施辦法裡面那這裡面就講說如果我們是這個執行具體逮捕的話是可以用這個手銬但是這個是不能使用這個借據當作作為懲罰的方法同時呢這裡有提到就是說要遵守比例原則不能逾越必要的程度"},{"start":377.512,"end":392.572,"text":"是,謝謝局長的這個解說那很重要就其實在刑事訴訟法裡面就已經講了你就算是要使用借據要符合比例原則而且也必須要注意到被告或犯罪嫌疑人的身體及名譽要避免他公然暴露"},{"start":393.473,"end":393.753,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":416.667,"end":435.264,"text":"上課之後他有沒有注意到其實也是要維護到社工的名譽而應該要做一個適當的遮掩但這個部分其實看起來警察是都沒有做到從一開始我們剛剛講是不是使用拘票然後之後再"},{"start":438.386,"end":458.038,"text":"他可不可以上告其實這一連串的問題都凸顯出我們的檢警單位在針對這種犯罪嫌疑人的時候其實做法上面是有違我們現在法律裡面所規定的而且就整個比例原則的判斷來講看起來是有明顯的一個"},{"start":459.079,"end":459.139,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":479.774,"end":505.867,"text":"記者在門外守候而且直接的拍攝那麼這個有關於偵查不公開的作業部分看起來法務部其實自己本身是有訂定偵查不公開作業辦法可是我大致上看一下這個應該說有這個看了這個偵查不公開作業辦法其實裡面的規定其實都很抽象那不知道這個為什麼就是就法務部這邊沒有要求各個"},{"start":506.707,"end":507.088,"text":"請教部長為什麼沒有在"},{"start":528.28,"end":555.678,"text":"我們內部也有一些相關的規定但是偵查不公開作為辦法其實就是很明確的訂定哪些是可以公開哪些不可以公開甚至說要設置一個場所來接受採訪以發言人的制度來對外說明這個我們都有很明確的要求要遵守這個規定我現在看到的只有設置發言的場所但是對於更細節的部分"},{"start":558.08,"end":558.2,"text":"法務部部長"},{"start":578.74,"end":606.995,"text":"參考警政署所定的注意要點自己的檢調機關也應該要訂定類似的要點還有就是說在之前剛剛前面幾位委員有講的其實你們針對偵查不公開也有進行定期的檢討可是很有趣的就是不管是在高檢署、法務部等等自己內部所進行的檢討的案件數非常多但是實際上真的有被處罰的人數卻非常非常少那麼所以我就不知道你們"},{"start":607.415,"end":612.336,"text":"檢討數字多是因為它收集所有報導出來的有關案件的這些文章或是報導內容都要來檢討所以它案件很多因為每一天報紙都有很多個案的一個報導"},{"start":636.363,"end":662.415,"text":"那至於這些是不是有涉及到偵查不公開案件自然會變少那這個少數但是我們還是很深入去探討有沒有違反要負責任的是我認為說可能你們檢討小組裡面也出了一些問題如果說都是自己內部的人在進行檢討而沒有引進引入外部的專家學者甚至媒體一起來進入來討論的話那麼我認為說這樣的偵查不公開可能你未來就算是"},{"start":665.276,"end":665.316,"text":"展覽委員會議"},{"start":688.957,"end":688.977,"text":"謝謝請回"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":903,"blocks":[["翁委員曉玲：（11時42分）主席、各位官員大家好。有請部長。"],["主席：請蔡部長。"],["蔡部長清祥：委員好。"],["翁委員曉玲：部長您辛苦了，從今天早上一直到現在，其實我想委員們問的問題都差不多，尤其是針對這次剴剴被他的保姆虐死案，然後後續又延伸了社工被拘提上銬的問題，也引起了社工界很大的反應，大家認為檢警在處理這個案子上有沒有過當的問題。我想請教您，以您過去在實務界工作這麼多年，如果是您今天辦案，您會發拘票嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：要看案情如何，如果有立即需要這個人，傳喚他不到，當然我們依法還是可以來核發拘票。"],["翁委員曉玲：我想在刑事訴訟法裡面其實也規定的很清楚，對於要進行拘提有要踐行一定的步驟，是有一些條件的。如果說是以今天這個社工的情況，他其實都已經到了警察局，也到那裡去進行案情的說明，就算檢察官之前有開拘票，可是這樣子的作法是正確的嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：在法律上他是可以這樣做的。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，可是這樣的話有沒有逾越了比例原則？我們看一下，其實在現行法律裡面的規定，除非被告的犯罪嫌疑重大，然後有符合一定的條件，必要的時候才可以不經傳喚進行拘提。可是今天的情況是這個社工都已經到警局了，看起來也都很配合，可是我們警方卻仍然是在當時有核發拘票，這樣子的行為是不是已經違反了檢察官一般辦案的作法？"],["蔡部長清祥：法律上他是合法的，但是有沒有比例原則上的考量，這個可以在個案上判斷。"],["翁委員曉玲：請問過去檢察署曾經針對檢察官不法核發拘票的這件事情有進行過內部的檢討嗎？或是你們有訂定過什麼樣的注意事項？"],["蔡部長清祥：針對拘票的問題，當然很少看到有不合法的，因為畢竟法律對檢察官來講，他個案處理的經驗很豐富，而且還有主任檢察官、襄閱，還有檢察長在督導，所以個案上並沒有看到說有違法……"],["翁委員曉玲：所以你們過去都沒有發現過有檢察官濫發拘票這樣的狀況？"],["蔡部長清祥：據我所知是沒有因為這樣……"],["翁委員曉玲：我認為其實就這麼多年來，一定會有檢察官有濫發拘票，否則……"],["蔡部長清祥：也許有，但是我想沒有說要拿出來檢討要處罰的。"],["翁委員曉玲：但是從這個案子裡面其實就已經凸顯出檢察官是不是有濫發拘票的問題，過去我們其實常看到新聞上都有這種問題的產生……"],["蔡部長清祥：濫發拘票是沒有，只是……"],["翁委員曉玲：所以我希望法務部能夠針對核發拘票的權限，以及在什麼樣的情況之下可以核發，什麼樣的情況之下是不……應該要做一個類型化、要進行相關拘提、核發拘票的相關規則。","接下來我想請教的是，那麼上銬呢？這次也是社會大眾對於我們的警察人員為什麼要給社工上銬的這個行為，認為有非常嚴重的瑕疵。依照我們現在刑事訴訟法相關的規定，其實執行拘提、逮捕或解送，得使用戒具，但是不得逾越必要的程度。請問裁量權這個部分，在過去的檢察署是怎麼樣做解釋？或是警察單位。"],["蔡部長清祥：因為執行是在警察。"],["翁委員曉玲：警察，是。"],["蔡部長清祥：所以他要判斷當時的狀況是不是有這個必要的情形。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以就這次的社工的情況來說，您認為他有必要要上手銬嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：因為我沒有看到整個案件的情形……"],["翁委員曉玲：可以請警政署。"],["蔡部長清祥：所以我想這個東西，還是可以尊重案情比較了解的承辦人員來做必要的判斷。"],["翁委員曉玲：是。今天警政署也有來嗎？警政署的代表？"],["主席：請局長上台。"],["周局長幼偉：報告委員，我是刑事警察局局長周幼偉。這個案子的話，因為當時是依據檢察官的拘票來執行這樣一個拘提的行動，這個拘提我們自己有一個辦法是執行拘提、逮捕戒送。然後使用戒具實施辦法裡面，這裡面就寫，如果我們是執行拘提、逮捕的話，是可以用手銬，但是不能使用戒具作為懲罰的方法。同時這裡有提到，就是說要遵守比例原則，不能逾越必要的程度。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，很好。是，謝謝局長的解說。很重要的就是，在刑事訴訟法裡面就已經講了，你就算是要使用戒具，要符合比例原則，而且也必須要注意到被告或犯罪嫌疑人的身體及名譽，要避免他公然暴露他的戒具。可是在這一次我們看到社工上銬的問題，其實很清楚，我認為其實都違反了比例原則，包含以他的這個狀況來講可不可以上銬。警察的裁量權有這麼大嗎？以及他上銬之後，他有沒有注意到其實也是要維護到社工的名譽，而應該要做一個適當的遮掩。這個部分其實看起來警察是都沒有做到，從一開始我們剛剛講是不是使用拘票，然後之後他可不可以上銬，其實這一連串的問題都凸顯出我們的檢警單位在針對這種犯罪嫌疑人的時候，其實做法上面是有違我們現在法律裡面所規定的。而且就整個比例原則的判斷來講，看起來是有明顯的瑕疵。","那麼接下來就談到有關於偵查不公開的問題，這一次也引發社會大眾很憤怒的地方，就是說為什麼媒體竟然在這個社工走出來警局以及進入地檢署的時候，都有大批的記者在門外守候，而且直接地拍攝。有關於偵查不公開的作業部分，看起來法務部其實自己本身是有訂定偵查不公開作業辦法。可是我大致上看了一下，應該說我有看了偵查不公開作業辦法，裡面的規定其實都很抽象，不知道為什麼法務部這邊沒有要求各個檢察或檢調單位有訂定更細緻的注意要點？我現在看到的是警察機關這裡是有訂定有關於跟新聞媒體的注意要點，但是就是檢調機關沒有。那我想請教部長，為什麼沒有制定？"],["蔡部長清祥：我們內部也有一些相關的規定，但是偵查不公開作業辦法其實就是很明確地訂定哪些是可以公開、哪些不可以公開，甚至說要設置一個場所來接受採訪，以發言人的制度來對外說明，這個我們都有很明確地要求要遵守這個規定。"],["翁委員曉玲：對。我現在看到的只有設置發言的場所，但是對於更細節的部分，看起來是警察機關，就是警政署這邊訂定的「警察機關偵辦刑案及處理新聞遵守偵查不公開原則注意要點」裡面是訂得更為細緻，很多的細節都有訂定。所以我在這邊我也希望法務部也可以比照、參考警政署所訂的注意要點，自己的檢調機關也應該要訂定類似的要點。","還有，剛剛前面幾位委員有講的，其實你們針對這個偵查不公開也有進行定期的檢討，可是很有趣的就是，不管是在高檢署、法務部等等，自己內部所進行檢討的案件數非常多，但是實際上真的有被處罰的人數卻非常非常少。所以我就不知道你們是怎麼樣去進行，要提出這些檢討件數，但是為什麼檢討之後，完全都沒有任何的建議或改正，或是懲處的措施？"],["蔡部長清祥：檢討數字多，是因為他搜所有報導出來的有關案件的文章或是報導內容都要來檢討，所以他案件很多，因為每一天報紙都有很多個案的報導。至於這些是不是有涉及到偵查不公開，案件自然會變少，這個少數，但是我們還是很深入去探討有沒有違反而要負責任的。"],["翁委員曉玲：是。我認為可能你們檢討小組裡面也出了一些問題，如果說都是自己內部的人在進行檢討，而沒有引入外部專家、學者，甚至媒體一起來進入、來討論的話，那麼我認為說這樣的偵查不公開，可能你未來就算再檢討了一千件、一萬件，也不會有任何人員的處分。這樣的話，對於我們要促進偵查不公開，讓他能夠更重視人權，這是沒有助益的。所以我希望你們能夠好好地去檢討有關於偵查不公開作業辦法，如果違反的話，相關的懲處以及如何能夠將偵查不公開作業的辦法再往下落實，可以訂定更細緻的作業要點，這樣才有辦法真的能夠維護司法人權。以上。"],["蔡部長清祥：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，請回。那我們接下來請賴士葆委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-7","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","沈發惠","謝龍介","莊瑞雄","羅智強","鍾佳濱","陳俊宇","傅崐萁","吳思瑤","林思銘","翁曉玲","賴士葆","王鴻薇"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-18"],"gazette_id":"1131501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131501_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院秘書長、法務部部長、內政部警政署率所屬相關單位列席就「為維護偵查程序之順利\n進行及真實發現，並兼顧人權維護，如何落實偵查不公開原則及相關流程缺失之檢討」進行專題\n報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1131501_00001"}}}