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931.71, \"end\": 931.73, \"score\": 0.005}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"施\", \"start\": 960.469, \"end\": 960.674, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 960.674, \"end\": 960.694, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,510 --> 00:00:20,670\n請羅美玲委員質詢。謝謝主席。有請衛福部邱太元部長。麻煩請衛福部備詢。\n\n2\n00:00:32,714 --> 00:00:45,512\n委員好部長好部長我們社會救助法呢準備要來修法可是衛福部的這個版本呢被公民團體呢打了不及格的這個分數也就是說\n\n3\n00:00:47,169 --> 00:01:04,616\n這跟民間的期待其實有很大的落差。現在這個社救盟甚至是用9個沒有來抨擊衛福部的這個草案。拿9個沒有,例如第一個虛擬收入沒有廢除。\n\n4\n00:01:05,296 --> 00:01:24,285\n第二、家戶合計沒有放寬。第三、就業支持沒有變化。第四、貧窮陷阱沒有解除。再來還有新住民家庭沒有被重視等等。民團甚至是形容衛福部的草案版本充滿了這個舊價值。\n\n5\n00:01:26,326 --> 00:01:54,068\n那因為時間的關係本席只針對新住民的部分跟部長來做一個討論我們來看看這釋救法是如何對一些需要救助的新住民造成了哪一些困擾跟困境那針對這個救助法它裡面有要求民眾申請低收或是中低收入戶資格的時候\n\n6\n00:01:55,369 --> 00:02:22,158\n計算財力人口的範圍除了申請人之外,包含配偶跟申請人一親等之直系血親,這個含當然就是說父母親,也就是說父母親要含在這個財力人口的這個計算範圍。那本席在2020年上任之後呢,陸陸續續接獲我們新著名朋友陳晴,表示在申請低收獲中,低收獲,\n\n7\n00:02:22,998 --> 00:02:42,734\n收入戶的時候,他們會被地方政府的承辦要求必須要提供原國籍父母雙親的戶籍及稅籍資料,財稅資料。那當然我們知道說,絕大部分新住民的雙親其實是居住在外國。\n\n8\n00:02:43,715 --> 00:03:02,154\n要跨海取得這些資料其實是非常的困難跟繁瑣而且每一年都要來做申請那當然過去從2011年開始其實內政部就開始有韓式那之後衛福部其實也都有陸陸續續做了韓式也就是說\n\n9\n00:03:03,595 --> 00:03:26,873\n請承辦人員依據《社會救助法》第5條第3項第9款,也就是我們所謂的539條款,如果因其他情形特殊未履行撫養義務至申請人生活現隱困境,然後請地方的主管機關仿視評估與申請人最佳利益作為\n\n10\n00:03:27,674 --> 00:03:31,216\n三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n\n11\n00:03:46,738 --> 00:04:06,879\n第二款異親等職業血親一定要他們到國外去申請他們父母親的這個財稅資料才有辦法替他們辦理請問部長這個要怎麼處理呢地方的這個解釋自我解釋常常讓這個新住民求助我們請問部長這要怎麼來處理\n\n12\n00:04:08,817 --> 00:04:36,224\n好謝謝委員那我們想社會救治法他修正現在修法的重點是以經濟安全脫貧自利及社會投資為核心當然我們要擴大照顧弱勢那所以剛剛所以現在目前本來已經在行政院這邊做討論後來發現有很多需要再討論的所以就回到部會來做討論那我想\n\n13\n00:04:37,532 --> 00:05:02,990\n這幾...其中有幾個重點在人極合一這個部分也會做更多的處理。我相信...在人極合一這部分會最多...最多...更多的處理。也就是說衛福部也認為說自己的版本其實是不好的,對不對?你原先提出來的這個其實是有問題的,對不對?沒關係,我們...那個...委員所提的齁,我想我們現在在研修當中,我們會把這樣的困難來解決。\n\n14\n00:05:05,055 --> 00:05:27,085\n對,因為說實在的為什麼這次的版本會讓民團如此的不以為然,其實說真的很多需要照顧的,需要解套的,其實在這次的設救法裡面我們都沒有看到。那除了新住民剛剛我們所提到就是說要申請國外父母親的這個財稅資料之外呢,那還有要注意一點就是說未入籍新住民。\n\n15\n00:05:27,825 --> 00:05:52,239\n像這個未入籍的新住民如果他是沒有小孩子的這個監護權他是連這個資格都沒有他連申請的資格都沒有只能夠尋求新住民發展基金的資源的這個協助那如果有小孩子有監護權的話呢就是依照這個社救法第5條第2項向地方政府申請特殊情形個案判定\n\n16\n00:05:52,999 --> 00:05:53,399\n我想我們一定會來解決這個問題。\n\n17\n00:06:12,908 --> 00:06:37,395\n會解決這個問題,連同這個未入籍的新住民的這個部分,我們會明確的把它來入法嘛,因為我們發現說有很多法條可能就是字義不清楚,所以到了地方的時候呢,承辦永遠都是以自己的意思來做解讀,所以在第一線的時候,這些人就被打掉了,這需要協助的這些新住民,弱勢的新住民,他們就被打掉了。\n\n18\n00:06:37,955 --> 00:06:59,587\n所以這個部分的話韓市在韓市十幾年來一再的韓市還是沒有辦法解決。我想部長如果是說這部分已經討論很久了。我記得在上一屆的時候就不斷的跟衛福部在討論這個問題可是呢一直都沒有辦法解決。好不容易現在我們社會救助法要來大修那是不是也把新住民的這些部分都考量進去呢?\n\n19\n00:06:59,587 --> 00:07:00,528\n部長能夠做到承諾嗎?\n\n20\n00:07:03,173 --> 00:07:29,694\n我想如果社會救助法所規定的對象,我們一定要給他最周全、最安全、最方便、最便利的一個...市長你這樣子的講法非常的空洞,我是想說就跟著新住民的這部分我們要如何協助?其實很多需要救助的新住民都排除在我們的法令之外...如果不具有條件,我們一定克服所有的困難去解決嘛,那如果必要需要在法律上有所...\n\n21\n00:07:31,592 --> 00:07:36,036\n所以本期今天跟你提的這些你們就會在這個未來的話因為這個法案這個草案其實大家都這麼的認為說不及格\n\n22\n00:07:50,629 --> 00:07:50,729\n會加入討論\n\n23\n00:08:14,019 --> 00:08:41,597\n各位討論,那像我們新的這個設計法其實大家都希望說有一個新的修正後的版本出來,請問我們有時間表嗎?這個會期會有新的版本出來嗎?有很多亮點,我想我們一定有很多亮點,就是說未來會有很多的亮點嗎?是這樣子嗎?對,包括怎麼樣脫貧當然剛剛提到的這個部分的一個只要是對象裡面我們一定\n\n24\n00:08:42,726 --> 00:09:09,179\n讓他很順暢的得到補助,而且不要造成不方便。另外在新的社會救助法的過享裡面,也有那種就是有緩衝期,比如說我們3加1,你可以去工作,你在工作的時候不會把你的補助取消,等4年以後,等你讓他存有一桶金,\n\n25\n00:09:09,899 --> 00:09:25,029\n好,部長,我們期待,好不好。主要是本席剛提的問題,我希望說在這次的設計法的修法當中能夠得到解決。那再來還有,希望就是說剛才本席所提的能夠明確入法。再來呢,本席要跟你討論的就是有關這個\n\n26\n00:09:26,190 --> 00:09:28,412\n三、10月18日下午1時50分至2時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．羅美玲\n\n27\n00:09:45,563 --> 00:09:48,806\n三十萬新住民之所以沒有入我國的國籍除了有個人的意願那也有入籍的年限未到甚至還有\n\n28\n00:10:07,603 --> 00:10:07,623\n韓國瑜\n\n29\n00:10:38,084 --> 00:10:54,959\n臺灣人的配偶,臺灣小孩的爸爸或者是媽媽,他們在臺灣生活、工作、繳稅,履行國民的這個義務,可是他們跟臺灣人一樣,他們會年老,然後會失智、會失能,\n\n30\n00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:14,153\n他們會在臺灣中老,可是因為他們沒有取得臺灣的身份證,無法入籍,當然也沒有辦法享有長照的服務。這個問題過去我跟衛福部也做了很多的討論,可是一直都沒有進展。\n\n31\n00:11:15,034 --> 00:11:42,004\n那終於到了今年的9月,邱部長您接受了這個媒體的這個專訪,那針對這個還未入籍的這個新住民,如果需要社會救濟或是長照服務,您說都可以研議提升相關權益來做保障。那事隔一個多月,我想問問部長,就是我們看到了以斯的這個曙光,您這部分有開始做規劃了嗎?\n\n32\n00:11:45,902 --> 00:11:49,522\n第一個就是說因為這30萬如果已經取得中華民國國籍大概\n\n33\n00:11:50,188 --> 00:12:16,883\n就是不分族群我們一定提供長照服務嘛。是,現在針對的是另外30萬未入籍的部分。另外30萬只要他在臺灣居住,我想我們政府一定給他有各種方式或利用其他的法律來給他最好的一個保障。其他的法律是怎麼樣的法律呢?因為這部分,易部長您讓很多新住民其實看到了曙光也讓民團肯定\n\n34\n00:12:17,363 --> 00:12:18,304\n我想要列入這個長照的體系可能比較知識體大,但是他應該享有的醫療\n\n35\n00:12:38,786 --> 00:12:39,426\n我們會盡速跟委員報告現在的進度。\n\n36\n00:12:56,306 --> 00:13:19,019\n那部長給你一個建議今年我們剛修完了人才專法第21條之一也就是讓年長為臺灣付出與取得永居的外國人才也能享有身心障礙及長照的服務人才專法今年修了那更何況是本席剛剛所提到的這些長年在\n\n37\n00:13:19,599 --> 00:13:21,840\n我們要演繹所以之後有再認真考慮嗎\n\n38\n00:13:44,304 --> 00:13:54,455\n我想基於我們政府照顧所有的人民的一個立場,不管他的國籍,我相信這個都是應該要去考慮。\n\n39\n00:13:59,059 --> 00:13:59,239\n財政部資料統計\n\n40\n00:14:14,814 --> 00:14:29,512\n長照經濟的收入,目前我們還是以房地合一稅源占最大宗,大概占了七成,再來就是菸稅等等,還有贈雨稅、遺產稅等等,可是看起來就是房地合一稅占最大宗。\n\n41\n00:14:31,393 --> 00:14:55,620\n可是在上個星期就有報導指出,因為疫情的關係,股災、升息或是打房等等政策,房地合一稅已經連續走跌,房市下半年開始交易的持續是量縮的,所以本席擔心長照基金的財源收入是否未來將會出現這個缺口,尤其是前陣子家庭照顧者,\n\n42\n00:14:56,901 --> 00:15:08,162\n總會也提出了警告,2028年長照基金即將要來耗盡,請問部長對未來長照基金這部分呢,我們這裁員開拓其他的裁員有沒有進一步的規劃?\n\n43\n00:15:09,616 --> 00:15:26,524\n我們要如何來增加這個財源,更何況我們未來可能會把這30萬位涉及的新住民也要納入長照的這個照顧當中,我們要如何維持長照基金的運作呢?報告委員,剛剛今天巡打的時候我們院長有指示,我們會尋求財源。\n\n44\n00:15:28,485 --> 00:15:31,730\n所以你們會有,所以行政部門會有信心就是說長照基金會持續維持正常來運作?\n\n45\n00:16:00,469 --> 00:16:00,694\n施政\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n510\t20670\t請羅美玲委員質詢。謝謝主席。有請衛福部邱太元部長。麻煩請衛福部備詢。\n32714\t45512\t委員好部長好部長我們社會救助法呢準備要來修法可是衛福部的這個版本呢被公民團體呢打了不及格的這個分數也就是說\n47169\t64616\t這跟民間的期待其實有很大的落差。 現在這個社救盟甚至是用9個沒有來抨擊衛福部的這個草案。 拿9個沒有,例如第一個虛擬收入沒有廢除。\n65296\t84285\t第二、家戶合計沒有放寬。 第三、就業支持沒有變化。 第四、貧窮陷阱沒有解除。 再來還有新住民家庭沒有被重視等等。 民團甚至是形容衛福部的草案版本充滿了這個舊價值。\n86326\t114068\t那因為時間的關係本席只針對新住民的部分跟部長來做一個討論我們來看看這釋救法是如何對一些需要救助的新住民造成了哪一些困擾跟困境那針對這個救助法它裡面有要求民眾申請低收或是中低收入戶資格的時候\n115369\t142158\t計算財力人口的範圍除了申請人之外, 包含配偶跟申請人一親等之直系血親, 這個含當然就是說父母親, 也就是說父母親要含在這個財力人口的這個計算範圍。 那本席在2020年上任之後呢, 陸陸續續接獲我們新著名朋友陳晴, 表示在申請低收獲中, 低收獲,\n142998\t162734\t收入戶的時候,他們會被地方政府的承辦要求必須要提供原國籍父母雙親的戶籍及稅籍資料,財稅資料。那當然我們知道說,絕大部分新住民的雙親其實是居住在外國。\n163715\t182154\t要跨海取得這些資料其實是非常的困難跟繁瑣而且每一年都要來做申請那當然過去從2011年開始其實內政部就開始有韓式那之後衛福部其實也都有陸陸續續做了韓式也就是說\n183595\t206873\t請承辦人員依據《社會救助法》第5條第3項第9款,也就是我們所謂的539條款,如果因其他情形特殊未履行撫養義務至申請人生活現隱困境,然後請地方的主管機關仿視評估與申請人最佳利益作為\n207674\t211216\t三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n226738\t246879\t第二款異親等職業血親一定要他們到國外去申請他們父母親的這個財稅資料才有辦法替他們辦理請問部長這個要怎麼處理呢地方的這個解釋自我解釋常常讓這個新住民求助我們請問部長這要怎麼來處理\n248817\t276224\t好 謝謝委員 那我們想社會救治法他修正現在修法的重點是以經濟安全脫貧自利及社會投資為核心當然我們要擴大照顧弱勢那所以剛剛所以現在目前本來已經在行政院這邊做討論後來發現有很多需要再討論的所以就回到部會來做討論那我想\n277532\t302990\t這幾...其中有幾個重點在人極合一這個部分也會做更多的處理。我相信...在人極合一這部分會最多...最多...更多的處理。也就是說衛福部也認為說自己的版本其實是不好的,對不對?你原先提出來的這個其實是有問題的,對不對?沒關係,我們...那個...委員所提的齁,我想我們現在在研修當中,我們會把這樣的困難來解決。\n305055\t327085\t對,因為說實在的為什麼這次的版本會讓民團如此的不以為然,其實說真的很多需要照顧的,需要解套的,其實在這次的設救法裡面我們都沒有看到。那除了新住民剛剛我們所提到就是說要申請國外父母親的這個財稅資料之外呢,那還有要注意一點就是說未入籍新住民。\n327825\t352239\t像這個未入籍的新住民如果他是沒有小孩子的這個監護權他是連這個資格都沒有他連申請的資格都沒有只能夠尋求新住民發展基金的資源的這個協助那如果有小孩子有監護權的話呢就是依照這個社救法第5條第2項向地方政府申請特殊情形個案判定\n352999\t353399\t我想我們一定會來解決這個問題。\n372908\t397395\t會解決這個問題, 連同這個未入籍的新住民的這個部分, 我們會明確的把它來入法嘛, 因為我們發現說有很多法條可能就是字義不清楚, 所以到了地方的時候呢, 承辦永遠都是以自己的意思來做解讀, 所以在第一線的時候, 這些人就被打掉了, 這需要協助的這些新住民, 弱勢的新住民, 他們就被打掉了。\n397955\t419587\t所以這個部分的話韓市在韓市十幾年來一再的韓市還是沒有辦法解決。 我想部長如果是說這部分已經討論很久了。 我記得在上一屆的時候就不斷的跟衛福部在討論這個問題可是呢一直都沒有辦法解決。 好不容易現在我們社會救助法要來大修那是不是也把新住民的這些部分都考量進去呢?\n419587\t420528\t部長能夠做到承諾嗎?\n423173\t449694\t我想如果社會救助法所規定的對象,我們一定要給他最周全、最安全、最方便、最便利的一個...市長你這樣子的講法非常的空洞,我是想說就跟著新住民的這部分我們要如何協助?其實很多需要救助的新住民都排除在我們的法令之外...如果不具有條件,我們一定克服所有的困難去解決嘛,那如果必要需要在法律上有所...\n451592\t456036\t所以本期今天跟你提的這些你們就會在這個未來的話因為這個法案這個草案其實大家都這麼的認為說不及格\n470629\t470729\t會加入討論\n494019\t521597\t各位討論,那像我們新的這個設計法其實大家都希望說有一個新的修正後的版本出來,請問我們有時間表嗎?這個會期會有新的版本出來嗎?有很多亮點,我想我們一定有很多亮點,就是說未來會有很多的亮點嗎?是這樣子嗎?對,包括怎麼樣脫貧當然剛剛提到的這個部分的一個只要是對象裡面我們一定\n522726\t549179\t讓他很順暢的得到補助,而且不要造成不方便。另外在新的社會救助法的過享裡面,也有那種就是有緩衝期,比如說我們3加1,你可以去工作,你在工作的時候不會把你的補助取消,等4年以後,等你讓他存有一桶金,\n549899\t565029\t好,部長,我們期待,好不好。主要是本席剛提的問題,我希望說在這次的設計法的修法當中能夠得到解決。那再來還有,希望就是說剛才本席所提的能夠明確入法。再來呢,本席要跟你討論的就是有關這個\n566190\t568412\t三、10月18日下午1時50分至2時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．羅美玲\n585563\t588806\t三十萬新住民之所以沒有入我國的國籍除了有個人的意願那也有入籍的年限未到甚至還有\n607603\t607623\t韓國瑜\n638084\t654959\t臺灣人的配偶,臺灣小孩的爸爸或者是媽媽,他們在臺灣生活、工作、繳稅,履行國民的這個義務,可是他們跟臺灣人一樣,他們會年老,然後會失智、會失能,\n656000\t674153\t他們會在臺灣中老,可是因為他們沒有取得臺灣的身份證,無法入籍,當然也沒有辦法享有長照的服務。 這個問題過去我跟衛福部也做了很多的討論,可是一直都沒有進展。\n675034\t702004\t那終於到了今年的9月,邱部長您接受了這個媒體的這個專訪,那針對這個還未入籍的這個新住民,如果需要社會救濟或是長照服務,您說都可以研議提升相關權益來做保障。那事隔一個多月,我想問問部長,就是我們看到了以斯的這個曙光,您這部分有開始做規劃了嗎?\n705902\t709522\t第一個就是說因為這30萬如果已經取得中華民國國籍大概\n710188\t736883\t就是不分族群我們一定提供長照服務嘛。 是,現在針對的是另外30萬未入籍的部分。另外30萬只要他在臺灣居住,我想我們政府一定給他有各種方式或利用其他的法律來給他最好的一個保障。 其他的法律是怎麼樣的法律呢?因為這部分,易部長您讓很多新住民其實看到了曙光也讓民團肯定\n737363\t738304\t我想要列入這個長照的體系可能比較知識體大,但是他應該享有的醫療\n758786\t759426\t我們會盡速跟委員報告現在的進度。\n776306\t799019\t那部長給你一個建議今年我們剛修完了人才專法第21條之一也就是讓年長為臺灣付出與取得永居的外國人才也能享有身心障礙及長照的服務人才專法今年修了那更何況是本席剛剛所提到的這些長年在\n799599\t801840\t我們要演繹所以之後有再認真考慮嗎\n824304\t834455\t我想基於我們政府照顧所有的人民的一個立場,不管他的國籍,我相信這個都是應該要去考慮。\n839059\t839239\t財政部資料統計\n854814\t869512\t長照經濟的收入,目前我們還是以房地合一稅源占最大宗,大概占了七成,再來就是菸稅等等,還有贈雨稅、遺產稅等等,可是看起來就是房地合一稅占最大宗。\n871393\t895620\t可是在上個星期就有報導指出, 因為疫情的關係, 股災、升息或是打房等等政策, 房地合一稅已經連續走跌, 房市下半年開始交易的持續是量縮的, 所以本席擔心長照基金的財源收入是否未來將會出現這個缺口, 尤其是前陣子家庭照顧者,\n896901\t908162\t總會也提出了警告,2028年長照基金即將要來耗盡,請問部長對未來長照基金這部分呢,我們這裁員開拓其他的裁員有沒有進一步的規劃?\n909616\t926524\t我們要如何來增加這個財源,更何況我們未來可能會把這30萬位涉及的新住民也要納入長照的這個照顧當中,我們要如何維持長照基金的運作呢?報告委員,剛剛今天巡打的時候我們院長有指示,我們會尋求財源。\n928485\t931730\t所以你們會有,所以行政部門會有信心就是說長照基金會持續維持正常來運作?\n960469\t960694\t施政\n","txt":"請羅美玲委員質詢。謝謝主席。有請衛福部邱太元部長。麻煩請衛福部備詢。\n委員好部長好部長我們社會救助法呢準備要來修法可是衛福部的這個版本呢被公民團體呢打了不及格的這個分數也就是說\n這跟民間的期待其實有很大的落差。 現在這個社救盟甚至是用9個沒有來抨擊衛福部的這個草案。 拿9個沒有,例如第一個虛擬收入沒有廢除。\n第二、家戶合計沒有放寬。 第三、就業支持沒有變化。 第四、貧窮陷阱沒有解除。 再來還有新住民家庭沒有被重視等等。 民團甚至是形容衛福部的草案版本充滿了這個舊價值。\n那因為時間的關係本席只針對新住民的部分跟部長來做一個討論我們來看看這釋救法是如何對一些需要救助的新住民造成了哪一些困擾跟困境那針對這個救助法它裡面有要求民眾申請低收或是中低收入戶資格的時候\n計算財力人口的範圍除了申請人之外, 包含配偶跟申請人一親等之直系血親, 這個含當然就是說父母親, 也就是說父母親要含在這個財力人口的這個計算範圍。 那本席在2020年上任之後呢, 陸陸續續接獲我們新著名朋友陳晴, 表示在申請低收獲中, 低收獲,\n收入戶的時候,他們會被地方政府的承辦要求必須要提供原國籍父母雙親的戶籍及稅籍資料,財稅資料。那當然我們知道說,絕大部分新住民的雙親其實是居住在外國。\n要跨海取得這些資料其實是非常的困難跟繁瑣而且每一年都要來做申請那當然過去從2011年開始其實內政部就開始有韓式那之後衛福部其實也都有陸陸續續做了韓式也就是說\n請承辦人員依據《社會救助法》第5條第3項第9款,也就是我們所謂的539條款,如果因其他情形特殊未履行撫養義務至申請人生活現隱困境,然後請地方的主管機關仿視評估與申請人最佳利益作為\n三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n第二款異親等職業血親一定要他們到國外去申請他們父母親的這個財稅資料才有辦法替他們辦理請問部長這個要怎麼處理呢地方的這個解釋自我解釋常常讓這個新住民求助我們請問部長這要怎麼來處理\n好 謝謝委員 那我們想社會救治法他修正現在修法的重點是以經濟安全脫貧自利及社會投資為核心當然我們要擴大照顧弱勢那所以剛剛所以現在目前本來已經在行政院這邊做討論後來發現有很多需要再討論的所以就回到部會來做討論那我想\n這幾...其中有幾個重點在人極合一這個部分也會做更多的處理。我相信...在人極合一這部分會最多...最多...更多的處理。也就是說衛福部也認為說自己的版本其實是不好的,對不對?你原先提出來的這個其實是有問題的,對不對?沒關係,我們...那個...委員所提的齁,我想我們現在在研修當中,我們會把這樣的困難來解決。\n對,因為說實在的為什麼這次的版本會讓民團如此的不以為然,其實說真的很多需要照顧的,需要解套的,其實在這次的設救法裡面我們都沒有看到。那除了新住民剛剛我們所提到就是說要申請國外父母親的這個財稅資料之外呢,那還有要注意一點就是說未入籍新住民。\n像這個未入籍的新住民如果他是沒有小孩子的這個監護權他是連這個資格都沒有他連申請的資格都沒有只能夠尋求新住民發展基金的資源的這個協助那如果有小孩子有監護權的話呢就是依照這個社救法第5條第2項向地方政府申請特殊情形個案判定\n我想我們一定會來解決這個問題。\n會解決這個問題, 連同這個未入籍的新住民的這個部分, 我們會明確的把它來入法嘛, 因為我們發現說有很多法條可能就是字義不清楚, 所以到了地方的時候呢, 承辦永遠都是以自己的意思來做解讀, 所以在第一線的時候, 這些人就被打掉了, 這需要協助的這些新住民, 弱勢的新住民, 他們就被打掉了。\n所以這個部分的話韓市在韓市十幾年來一再的韓市還是沒有辦法解決。 我想部長如果是說這部分已經討論很久了。 我記得在上一屆的時候就不斷的跟衛福部在討論這個問題可是呢一直都沒有辦法解決。 好不容易現在我們社會救助法要來大修那是不是也把新住民的這些部分都考量進去呢?\n部長能夠做到承諾嗎?\n我想如果社會救助法所規定的對象,我們一定要給他最周全、最安全、最方便、最便利的一個...市長你這樣子的講法非常的空洞,我是想說就跟著新住民的這部分我們要如何協助?其實很多需要救助的新住民都排除在我們的法令之外...如果不具有條件,我們一定克服所有的困難去解決嘛,那如果必要需要在法律上有所...\n所以本期今天跟你提的這些你們就會在這個未來的話因為這個法案這個草案其實大家都這麼的認為說不及格\n會加入討論\n各位討論,那像我們新的這個設計法其實大家都希望說有一個新的修正後的版本出來,請問我們有時間表嗎?這個會期會有新的版本出來嗎?有很多亮點,我想我們一定有很多亮點,就是說未來會有很多的亮點嗎?是這樣子嗎?對,包括怎麼樣脫貧當然剛剛提到的這個部分的一個只要是對象裡面我們一定\n讓他很順暢的得到補助,而且不要造成不方便。另外在新的社會救助法的過享裡面,也有那種就是有緩衝期,比如說我們3加1,你可以去工作,你在工作的時候不會把你的補助取消,等4年以後,等你讓他存有一桶金,\n好,部長,我們期待,好不好。主要是本席剛提的問題,我希望說在這次的設計法的修法當中能夠得到解決。那再來還有,希望就是說剛才本席所提的能夠明確入法。再來呢,本席要跟你討論的就是有關這個\n三、10月18日下午1時50分至2時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．羅美玲\n三十萬新住民之所以沒有入我國的國籍除了有個人的意願那也有入籍的年限未到甚至還有\n韓國瑜\n臺灣人的配偶,臺灣小孩的爸爸或者是媽媽,他們在臺灣生活、工作、繳稅,履行國民的這個義務,可是他們跟臺灣人一樣,他們會年老,然後會失智、會失能,\n他們會在臺灣中老,可是因為他們沒有取得臺灣的身份證,無法入籍,當然也沒有辦法享有長照的服務。 這個問題過去我跟衛福部也做了很多的討論,可是一直都沒有進展。\n那終於到了今年的9月,邱部長您接受了這個媒體的這個專訪,那針對這個還未入籍的這個新住民,如果需要社會救濟或是長照服務,您說都可以研議提升相關權益來做保障。那事隔一個多月,我想問問部長,就是我們看到了以斯的這個曙光,您這部分有開始做規劃了嗎?\n第一個就是說因為這30萬如果已經取得中華民國國籍大概\n就是不分族群我們一定提供長照服務嘛。 是,現在針對的是另外30萬未入籍的部分。另外30萬只要他在臺灣居住,我想我們政府一定給他有各種方式或利用其他的法律來給他最好的一個保障。 其他的法律是怎麼樣的法律呢?因為這部分,易部長您讓很多新住民其實看到了曙光也讓民團肯定\n我想要列入這個長照的體系可能比較知識體大,但是他應該享有的醫療\n我們會盡速跟委員報告現在的進度。\n那部長給你一個建議今年我們剛修完了人才專法第21條之一也就是讓年長為臺灣付出與取得永居的外國人才也能享有身心障礙及長照的服務人才專法今年修了那更何況是本席剛剛所提到的這些長年在\n我們要演繹所以之後有再認真考慮嗎\n我想基於我們政府照顧所有的人民的一個立場,不管他的國籍,我相信這個都是應該要去考慮。\n財政部資料統計\n長照經濟的收入,目前我們還是以房地合一稅源占最大宗,大概占了七成,再來就是菸稅等等,還有贈雨稅、遺產稅等等,可是看起來就是房地合一稅占最大宗。\n可是在上個星期就有報導指出, 因為疫情的關係, 股災、升息或是打房等等政策, 房地合一稅已經連續走跌, 房市下半年開始交易的持續是量縮的, 所以本席擔心長照基金的財源收入是否未來將會出現這個缺口, 尤其是前陣子家庭照顧者,\n總會也提出了警告,2028年長照基金即將要來耗盡,請問部長對未來長照基金這部分呢,我們這裁員開拓其他的裁員有沒有進一步的規劃?\n我們要如何來增加這個財源,更何況我們未來可能會把這30萬位涉及的新住民也要納入長照的這個照顧當中,我們要如何維持長照基金的運作呢?報告委員,剛剛今天巡打的時候我們院長有指示,我們會尋求財源。\n所以你們會有,所以行政部門會有信心就是說長照基金會持續維持正常來運作?\n施政\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.510 --> 00:20.670\n請羅美玲委員質詢。謝謝主席。有請衛福部邱太元部長。麻煩請衛福部備詢。\n\n00:32.714 --> 00:45.512\n委員好部長好部長我們社會救助法呢準備要來修法可是衛福部的這個版本呢被公民團體呢打了不及格的這個分數也就是說\n\n00:47.169 --> 01:04.616\n這跟民間的期待其實有很大的落差。現在這個社救盟甚至是用9個沒有來抨擊衛福部的這個草案。拿9個沒有,例如第一個虛擬收入沒有廢除。\n\n01:05.296 --> 01:24.285\n第二、家戶合計沒有放寬。第三、就業支持沒有變化。第四、貧窮陷阱沒有解除。再來還有新住民家庭沒有被重視等等。民團甚至是形容衛福部的草案版本充滿了這個舊價值。\n\n01:26.326 --> 01:54.068\n那因為時間的關係本席只針對新住民的部分跟部長來做一個討論我們來看看這釋救法是如何對一些需要救助的新住民造成了哪一些困擾跟困境那針對這個救助法它裡面有要求民眾申請低收或是中低收入戶資格的時候\n\n01:55.369 --> 02:22.158\n計算財力人口的範圍除了申請人之外,包含配偶跟申請人一親等之直系血親,這個含當然就是說父母親,也就是說父母親要含在這個財力人口的這個計算範圍。那本席在2020年上任之後呢,陸陸續續接獲我們新著名朋友陳晴,表示在申請低收獲中,低收獲,\n\n02:22.998 --> 02:42.734\n收入戶的時候,他們會被地方政府的承辦要求必須要提供原國籍父母雙親的戶籍及稅籍資料,財稅資料。那當然我們知道說,絕大部分新住民的雙親其實是居住在外國。\n\n02:43.715 --> 03:02.154\n要跨海取得這些資料其實是非常的困難跟繁瑣而且每一年都要來做申請那當然過去從2011年開始其實內政部就開始有韓式那之後衛福部其實也都有陸陸續續做了韓式也就是說\n\n03:03.595 --> 03:26.873\n請承辦人員依據《社會救助法》第5條第3項第9款,也就是我們所謂的539條款,如果因其他情形特殊未履行撫養義務至申請人生活現隱困境,然後請地方的主管機關仿視評估與申請人最佳利益作為\n\n03:27.674 --> 03:31.216\n三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n\n03:46.738 --> 04:06.879\n第二款異親等職業血親一定要他們到國外去申請他們父母親的這個財稅資料才有辦法替他們辦理請問部長這個要怎麼處理呢地方的這個解釋自我解釋常常讓這個新住民求助我們請問部長這要怎麼來處理\n\n04:08.817 --> 04:36.224\n好謝謝委員那我們想社會救治法他修正現在修法的重點是以經濟安全脫貧自利及社會投資為核心當然我們要擴大照顧弱勢那所以剛剛所以現在目前本來已經在行政院這邊做討論後來發現有很多需要再討論的所以就回到部會來做討論那我想\n\n04:37.532 --> 05:02.990\n這幾...其中有幾個重點在人極合一這個部分也會做更多的處理。我相信...在人極合一這部分會最多...最多...更多的處理。也就是說衛福部也認為說自己的版本其實是不好的,對不對?你原先提出來的這個其實是有問題的,對不對?沒關係,我們...那個...委員所提的齁,我想我們現在在研修當中,我們會把這樣的困難來解決。\n\n05:05.055 --> 05:27.085\n對,因為說實在的為什麼這次的版本會讓民團如此的不以為然,其實說真的很多需要照顧的,需要解套的,其實在這次的設救法裡面我們都沒有看到。那除了新住民剛剛我們所提到就是說要申請國外父母親的這個財稅資料之外呢,那還有要注意一點就是說未入籍新住民。\n\n05:27.825 --> 05:52.239\n像這個未入籍的新住民如果他是沒有小孩子的這個監護權他是連這個資格都沒有他連申請的資格都沒有只能夠尋求新住民發展基金的資源的這個協助那如果有小孩子有監護權的話呢就是依照這個社救法第5條第2項向地方政府申請特殊情形個案判定\n\n05:52.999 --> 05:53.399\n我想我們一定會來解決這個問題。\n\n06:12.908 --> 06:37.395\n會解決這個問題,連同這個未入籍的新住民的這個部分,我們會明確的把它來入法嘛,因為我們發現說有很多法條可能就是字義不清楚,所以到了地方的時候呢,承辦永遠都是以自己的意思來做解讀,所以在第一線的時候,這些人就被打掉了,這需要協助的這些新住民,弱勢的新住民,他們就被打掉了。\n\n06:37.955 --> 06:59.587\n所以這個部分的話韓市在韓市十幾年來一再的韓市還是沒有辦法解決。我想部長如果是說這部分已經討論很久了。我記得在上一屆的時候就不斷的跟衛福部在討論這個問題可是呢一直都沒有辦法解決。好不容易現在我們社會救助法要來大修那是不是也把新住民的這些部分都考量進去呢?\n\n06:59.587 --> 07:00.528\n部長能夠做到承諾嗎?\n\n07:03.173 --> 07:29.694\n我想如果社會救助法所規定的對象,我們一定要給他最周全、最安全、最方便、最便利的一個...市長你這樣子的講法非常的空洞,我是想說就跟著新住民的這部分我們要如何協助?其實很多需要救助的新住民都排除在我們的法令之外...如果不具有條件,我們一定克服所有的困難去解決嘛,那如果必要需要在法律上有所...\n\n07:31.592 --> 07:36.036\n所以本期今天跟你提的這些你們就會在這個未來的話因為這個法案這個草案其實大家都這麼的認為說不及格\n\n07:50.629 --> 07:50.729\n會加入討論\n\n08:14.019 --> 08:41.597\n各位討論,那像我們新的這個設計法其實大家都希望說有一個新的修正後的版本出來,請問我們有時間表嗎?這個會期會有新的版本出來嗎?有很多亮點,我想我們一定有很多亮點,就是說未來會有很多的亮點嗎?是這樣子嗎?對,包括怎麼樣脫貧當然剛剛提到的這個部分的一個只要是對象裡面我們一定\n\n08:42.726 --> 09:09.179\n讓他很順暢的得到補助,而且不要造成不方便。另外在新的社會救助法的過享裡面,也有那種就是有緩衝期,比如說我們3加1,你可以去工作,你在工作的時候不會把你的補助取消,等4年以後,等你讓他存有一桶金,\n\n09:09.899 --> 09:25.029\n好,部長,我們期待,好不好。主要是本席剛提的問題,我希望說在這次的設計法的修法當中能夠得到解決。那再來還有,希望就是說剛才本席所提的能夠明確入法。再來呢,本席要跟你討論的就是有關這個\n\n09:26.190 --> 09:28.412\n三、10月18日下午1時50分至2時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．羅美玲\n\n09:45.563 --> 09:48.806\n三十萬新住民之所以沒有入我國的國籍除了有個人的意願那也有入籍的年限未到甚至還有\n\n10:07.603 --> 10:07.623\n韓國瑜\n\n10:38.084 --> 10:54.959\n臺灣人的配偶,臺灣小孩的爸爸或者是媽媽,他們在臺灣生活、工作、繳稅,履行國民的這個義務,可是他們跟臺灣人一樣,他們會年老,然後會失智、會失能,\n\n10:56.000 --> 11:14.153\n他們會在臺灣中老,可是因為他們沒有取得臺灣的身份證,無法入籍,當然也沒有辦法享有長照的服務。這個問題過去我跟衛福部也做了很多的討論,可是一直都沒有進展。\n\n11:15.034 --> 11:42.004\n那終於到了今年的9月,邱部長您接受了這個媒體的這個專訪,那針對這個還未入籍的這個新住民,如果需要社會救濟或是長照服務,您說都可以研議提升相關權益來做保障。那事隔一個多月,我想問問部長,就是我們看到了以斯的這個曙光,您這部分有開始做規劃了嗎?\n\n11:45.902 --> 11:49.522\n第一個就是說因為這30萬如果已經取得中華民國國籍大概\n\n11:50.188 --> 12:16.883\n就是不分族群我們一定提供長照服務嘛。是,現在針對的是另外30萬未入籍的部分。另外30萬只要他在臺灣居住,我想我們政府一定給他有各種方式或利用其他的法律來給他最好的一個保障。其他的法律是怎麼樣的法律呢?因為這部分,易部長您讓很多新住民其實看到了曙光也讓民團肯定\n\n12:17.363 --> 12:18.304\n我想要列入這個長照的體系可能比較知識體大,但是他應該享有的醫療\n\n12:38.786 --> 12:39.426\n我們會盡速跟委員報告現在的進度。\n\n12:56.306 --> 13:19.019\n那部長給你一個建議今年我們剛修完了人才專法第21條之一也就是讓年長為臺灣付出與取得永居的外國人才也能享有身心障礙及長照的服務人才專法今年修了那更何況是本席剛剛所提到的這些長年在\n\n13:19.599 --> 13:21.840\n我們要演繹所以之後有再認真考慮嗎\n\n13:44.304 --> 13:54.455\n我想基於我們政府照顧所有的人民的一個立場,不管他的國籍,我相信這個都是應該要去考慮。\n\n13:59.059 --> 13:59.239\n財政部資料統計\n\n14:14.814 --> 14:29.512\n長照經濟的收入,目前我們還是以房地合一稅源占最大宗,大概占了七成,再來就是菸稅等等,還有贈雨稅、遺產稅等等,可是看起來就是房地合一稅占最大宗。\n\n14:31.393 --> 14:55.620\n可是在上個星期就有報導指出,因為疫情的關係,股災、升息或是打房等等政策,房地合一稅已經連續走跌,房市下半年開始交易的持續是量縮的,所以本席擔心長照基金的財源收入是否未來將會出現這個缺口,尤其是前陣子家庭照顧者,\n\n14:56.901 --> 15:08.162\n總會也提出了警告,2028年長照基金即將要來耗盡,請問部長對未來長照基金這部分呢,我們這裁員開拓其他的裁員有沒有進一步的規劃?\n\n15:09.616 --> 15:26.524\n我們要如何來增加這個財源,更何況我們未來可能會把這30萬位涉及的新住民也要納入長照的這個照顧當中,我們要如何維持長照基金的運作呢?報告委員,剛剛今天巡打的時候我們院長有指示,我們會尋求財源。\n\n15:28.485 --> 15:31.730\n所以你們會有,所以行政部門會有信心就是說長照基金會持續維持正常來運作?\n\n16:00.469 --> 16:00.694\n施政\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.51,"end":20.67,"text":"請羅美玲委員質詢。謝謝主席。有請衛福部邱太元部長。麻煩請衛福部備詢。"},{"start":32.714,"end":45.512,"text":"委員好部長好部長我們社會救助法呢準備要來修法可是衛福部的這個版本呢被公民團體呢打了不及格的這個分數也就是說"},{"start":47.169,"end":64.616,"text":"這跟民間的期待其實有很大的落差。 現在這個社救盟甚至是用9個沒有來抨擊衛福部的這個草案。 拿9個沒有,例如第一個虛擬收入沒有廢除。"},{"start":65.296,"end":84.285,"text":"第二、家戶合計沒有放寬。 第三、就業支持沒有變化。 第四、貧窮陷阱沒有解除。 再來還有新住民家庭沒有被重視等等。 民團甚至是形容衛福部的草案版本充滿了這個舊價值。"},{"start":86.326,"end":114.068,"text":"那因為時間的關係本席只針對新住民的部分跟部長來做一個討論我們來看看這釋救法是如何對一些需要救助的新住民造成了哪一些困擾跟困境那針對這個救助法它裡面有要求民眾申請低收或是中低收入戶資格的時候"},{"start":115.369,"end":142.158,"text":"計算財力人口的範圍除了申請人之外, 包含配偶跟申請人一親等之直系血親, 這個含當然就是說父母親, 也就是說父母親要含在這個財力人口的這個計算範圍。 那本席在2020年上任之後呢, 陸陸續續接獲我們新著名朋友陳晴, 表示在申請低收獲中, 低收獲,"},{"start":142.998,"end":162.734,"text":"收入戶的時候,他們會被地方政府的承辦要求必須要提供原國籍父母雙親的戶籍及稅籍資料,財稅資料。那當然我們知道說,絕大部分新住民的雙親其實是居住在外國。"},{"start":163.715,"end":182.154,"text":"要跨海取得這些資料其實是非常的困難跟繁瑣而且每一年都要來做申請那當然過去從2011年開始其實內政部就開始有韓式那之後衛福部其實也都有陸陸續續做了韓式也就是說"},{"start":183.595,"end":206.873,"text":"請承辦人員依據《社會救助法》第5條第3項第9款,也就是我們所謂的539條款,如果因其他情形特殊未履行撫養義務至申請人生活現隱困境,然後請地方的主管機關仿視評估與申請人最佳利益作為"},{"start":207.674,"end":211.216,"text":"三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。"},{"start":226.738,"end":246.879,"text":"第二款異親等職業血親一定要他們到國外去申請他們父母親的這個財稅資料才有辦法替他們辦理請問部長這個要怎麼處理呢地方的這個解釋自我解釋常常讓這個新住民求助我們請問部長這要怎麼來處理"},{"start":248.817,"end":276.224,"text":"好 謝謝委員 那我們想社會救治法他修正現在修法的重點是以經濟安全脫貧自利及社會投資為核心當然我們要擴大照顧弱勢那所以剛剛所以現在目前本來已經在行政院這邊做討論後來發現有很多需要再討論的所以就回到部會來做討論那我想"},{"start":277.532,"end":302.99,"text":"這幾...其中有幾個重點在人極合一這個部分也會做更多的處理。我相信...在人極合一這部分會最多...最多...更多的處理。也就是說衛福部也認為說自己的版本其實是不好的,對不對?你原先提出來的這個其實是有問題的,對不對?沒關係,我們...那個...委員所提的齁,我想我們現在在研修當中,我們會把這樣的困難來解決。"},{"start":305.055,"end":327.085,"text":"對,因為說實在的為什麼這次的版本會讓民團如此的不以為然,其實說真的很多需要照顧的,需要解套的,其實在這次的設救法裡面我們都沒有看到。那除了新住民剛剛我們所提到就是說要申請國外父母親的這個財稅資料之外呢,那還有要注意一點就是說未入籍新住民。"},{"start":327.825,"end":352.239,"text":"像這個未入籍的新住民如果他是沒有小孩子的這個監護權他是連這個資格都沒有他連申請的資格都沒有只能夠尋求新住民發展基金的資源的這個協助那如果有小孩子有監護權的話呢就是依照這個社救法第5條第2項向地方政府申請特殊情形個案判定"},{"start":352.999,"end":353.399,"text":"我想我們一定會來解決這個問題。"},{"start":372.908,"end":397.395,"text":"會解決這個問題, 連同這個未入籍的新住民的這個部分, 我們會明確的把它來入法嘛, 因為我們發現說有很多法條可能就是字義不清楚, 所以到了地方的時候呢, 承辦永遠都是以自己的意思來做解讀, 所以在第一線的時候, 這些人就被打掉了, 這需要協助的這些新住民, 弱勢的新住民, 他們就被打掉了。"},{"start":397.955,"end":419.587,"text":"所以這個部分的話韓市在韓市十幾年來一再的韓市還是沒有辦法解決。 我想部長如果是說這部分已經討論很久了。 我記得在上一屆的時候就不斷的跟衛福部在討論這個問題可是呢一直都沒有辦法解決。 好不容易現在我們社會救助法要來大修那是不是也把新住民的這些部分都考量進去呢?"},{"start":419.587,"end":420.528,"text":"部長能夠做到承諾嗎?"},{"start":423.173,"end":449.694,"text":"我想如果社會救助法所規定的對象,我們一定要給他最周全、最安全、最方便、最便利的一個...市長你這樣子的講法非常的空洞,我是想說就跟著新住民的這部分我們要如何協助?其實很多需要救助的新住民都排除在我們的法令之外...如果不具有條件,我們一定克服所有的困難去解決嘛,那如果必要需要在法律上有所..."},{"start":451.592,"end":456.036,"text":"所以本期今天跟你提的這些你們就會在這個未來的話因為這個法案這個草案其實大家都這麼的認為說不及格"},{"start":470.629,"end":470.729,"text":"會加入討論"},{"start":494.019,"end":521.597,"text":"各位討論,那像我們新的這個設計法其實大家都希望說有一個新的修正後的版本出來,請問我們有時間表嗎?這個會期會有新的版本出來嗎?有很多亮點,我想我們一定有很多亮點,就是說未來會有很多的亮點嗎?是這樣子嗎?對,包括怎麼樣脫貧當然剛剛提到的這個部分的一個只要是對象裡面我們一定"},{"start":522.726,"end":549.179,"text":"讓他很順暢的得到補助,而且不要造成不方便。另外在新的社會救助法的過享裡面,也有那種就是有緩衝期,比如說我們3加1,你可以去工作,你在工作的時候不會把你的補助取消,等4年以後,等你讓他存有一桶金,"},{"start":549.899,"end":565.029,"text":"好,部長,我們期待,好不好。主要是本席剛提的問題,我希望說在這次的設計法的修法當中能夠得到解決。那再來還有,希望就是說剛才本席所提的能夠明確入法。再來呢,本席要跟你討論的就是有關這個"},{"start":566.19,"end":568.412,"text":"三、10月18日下午1時50分至2時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．羅美玲"},{"start":585.563,"end":588.806,"text":"三十萬新住民之所以沒有入我國的國籍除了有個人的意願那也有入籍的年限未到甚至還有"},{"start":607.603,"end":607.623,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":638.084,"end":654.959,"text":"臺灣人的配偶,臺灣小孩的爸爸或者是媽媽,他們在臺灣生活、工作、繳稅,履行國民的這個義務,可是他們跟臺灣人一樣,他們會年老,然後會失智、會失能,"},{"start":656,"end":674.153,"text":"他們會在臺灣中老,可是因為他們沒有取得臺灣的身份證,無法入籍,當然也沒有辦法享有長照的服務。 這個問題過去我跟衛福部也做了很多的討論,可是一直都沒有進展。"},{"start":675.034,"end":702.004,"text":"那終於到了今年的9月,邱部長您接受了這個媒體的這個專訪,那針對這個還未入籍的這個新住民,如果需要社會救濟或是長照服務,您說都可以研議提升相關權益來做保障。那事隔一個多月,我想問問部長,就是我們看到了以斯的這個曙光,您這部分有開始做規劃了嗎?"},{"start":705.902,"end":709.522,"text":"第一個就是說因為這30萬如果已經取得中華民國國籍大概"},{"start":710.188,"end":736.883,"text":"就是不分族群我們一定提供長照服務嘛。 是,現在針對的是另外30萬未入籍的部分。另外30萬只要他在臺灣居住,我想我們政府一定給他有各種方式或利用其他的法律來給他最好的一個保障。 其他的法律是怎麼樣的法律呢?因為這部分,易部長您讓很多新住民其實看到了曙光也讓民團肯定"},{"start":737.363,"end":738.304,"text":"我想要列入這個長照的體系可能比較知識體大,但是他應該享有的醫療"},{"start":758.786,"end":759.426,"text":"我們會盡速跟委員報告現在的進度。"},{"start":776.306,"end":799.019,"text":"那部長給你一個建議今年我們剛修完了人才專法第21條之一也就是讓年長為臺灣付出與取得永居的外國人才也能享有身心障礙及長照的服務人才專法今年修了那更何況是本席剛剛所提到的這些長年在"},{"start":799.599,"end":801.84,"text":"我們要演繹所以之後有再認真考慮嗎"},{"start":824.304,"end":834.455,"text":"我想基於我們政府照顧所有的人民的一個立場,不管他的國籍,我相信這個都是應該要去考慮。"},{"start":839.059,"end":839.239,"text":"財政部資料統計"},{"start":854.814,"end":869.512,"text":"長照經濟的收入,目前我們還是以房地合一稅源占最大宗,大概占了七成,再來就是菸稅等等,還有贈雨稅、遺產稅等等,可是看起來就是房地合一稅占最大宗。"},{"start":871.393,"end":895.62,"text":"可是在上個星期就有報導指出, 因為疫情的關係, 股災、升息或是打房等等政策, 房地合一稅已經連續走跌, 房市下半年開始交易的持續是量縮的, 所以本席擔心長照基金的財源收入是否未來將會出現這個缺口, 尤其是前陣子家庭照顧者,"},{"start":896.901,"end":908.162,"text":"總會也提出了警告,2028年長照基金即將要來耗盡,請問部長對未來長照基金這部分呢,我們這裁員開拓其他的裁員有沒有進一步的規劃?"},{"start":909.616,"end":926.524,"text":"我們要如何來增加這個財源,更何況我們未來可能會把這30萬位涉及的新住民也要納入長照的這個照顧當中,我們要如何維持長照基金的運作呢?報告委員,剛剛今天巡打的時候我們院長有指示,我們會尋求財源。"},{"start":928.485,"end":931.73,"text":"所以你們會有,所以行政部門會有信心就是說長照基金會持續維持正常來運作?"},{"start":960.469,"end":960.694,"text":"施政"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":469,"blocks":[["羅委員美玲：（16時18分）謝謝主席，有請衛福部邱泰源部長。"],["主席：麻煩請衛福部備詢。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["羅委員美玲：部長好。部長，社會救助法準備要來修法，可是衛福部的版本被公民團體打了不及格的分數，也就是說，這跟民間的期待其實有很大的落差，現在社救盟甚至是用「九個沒有」來抨擊衛福部的草案，哪九個沒有？例如第一個，虛擬收入沒有廢除；第二個，家戶合計沒有放寬；第三，就業支持沒有變化；第四，貧窮陷阱沒有解除；再來還有新住民家庭沒有被重視等等，民團甚至形容衛福部的草案版本充滿了舊價值。因為時間的關係，本席只針對新住民的部分跟部長來做討論，我們來看看社救法是如何對一些需要救助的新住民造成了哪一些困擾跟困境。針對救助法裡面有要求民眾申請低收或是中低收入戶資格的時候，計算財力人口的範圍除了申請人之外，包含配偶跟申請人一親等之直系血親，這些都涵蓋了，也就是說，父母親要含在這個財力人口的計算範圍。本席在2020年上任之後陸陸續續接獲我們新住民朋友陳情，表示在申請低收或中低收入戶的時候，他們會被地方政府的承辦要求必須要提供原國籍父母雙親的戶籍及稅籍資料、財稅資料，當然，我們也知道絕大部分新住民的雙親其實是居住在外國，要跨海取得這些資料是非常地困難跟繁瑣，而且每一年都要來做申請。","過去從2011年開始，其實內政部就開始有函釋，之後衛福部其實也都有陸陸續續做了函釋，也就是請承辦人員依據社會救助法第五條第三項第九款，就是我們所謂的五三九條款，如果因其他情形特殊，未履行扶養義務，致申請人生活陷於困境，請地方的主管機關訪視評估以申請人最佳利益作為考量，認定以不列入應計算人口為宜。可是很可惜的是，就算函釋了這麼多次，每一次這些新住民在申請低收或中低收資格的時候，都會被地方的承辦以社救法第五條第一項第二款一親等之直系血親的規定，一定要他們到國外去申請他們父母親的財稅資料，才有辦法替他們辦理，請問部長，這個要怎麼處理呢？地方的自我解釋常常讓新住民求助無門，請問部長，這要怎麼來處理？"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員。社會救助法現在修法的重點是以經濟安全、脫貧自立及社會投資為核心，當然，我們要擴大照顧弱勢，所以目前……本來已經在行政院這邊做討論，後來發現有很多需要再討論的，所以就回到部會來做討論。我想這其中有幾個重點，在人籍合一這個部分也會做更多的處理，我相信……"],["羅委員美玲：現在人籍合一這部分會做最多、更多的處理……"],["邱部長泰源：所以如果您的意見這個部分……"],["羅委員美玲：也就是說，衛福部也認為自己的版本其實是不好的，對不對？你們原先提出來的其實是有問題的，對不對？"],["邱部長泰源：沒關係，針對委員所提的，我們現在研修當中，我們會把這樣的困難來解決。"],["羅委員美玲：對，因為說實在的，為什麼這次的版本會讓民團如此地不以為然？其實真的很多需要照顧的、需要解套的，在這次的社救法裡面我們都沒有看到。除了剛剛我們所提到新住民要申請國外父母親的財稅資料之外，還有要注意一點，就是未入籍新住民，像未入籍的新住民如果沒有小孩子的監護權，他是連申請的資格都沒有，只能夠尋求新住民發展基金的資源協助；如果有小孩子的監護權的話，就是依照社救法第五條第二項，向地方政府申請特殊情形個案判定。一般來講，如果他有小孩的監護權，他是有這個資格的，可是往往到了地方的時候，承辦還是不受理，然後自我解讀，請問部長，像這個部分的話，我們在修法的時候會考量進來嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：我想我們一定會來解決這個問題。"],["羅委員美玲：會解決這個問題，連同這些未入籍的新住民的部分，我們會明確地把它來入法嗎？因為我們發現有很多法條可能就是字義不清楚，所以到了地方的時候，承辦永遠都是以自己的意思來做解讀，所以在第一線的時候，這些人就被打掉了，這些需要協助的新住民、弱勢的新住民他們就被打掉了。所以這個部分的話，函釋再函釋，十幾年來一再地函釋，還是沒有辦法解決。部長，這部分已經討論很久了，我記得在上一屆的時候就不斷的跟衛福部討論這個問題，可是一直都沒有辦法解決，好不容易現在社會救助法要大修，是不是也把新住民的這些部分都考量進去呢？部長，能夠做到承諾嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：如果是社會救助法所規定的對象，我們一定要給他最周全、最安全、最方便、最便利的……"],["羅委員美玲：部長，你這樣子的講法非常空洞，請問針對新住民的部分，我們要如何協助？其實有很多需要救助的新住民都排除在我們的法律之外……"],["邱部長泰源：新住民如果符合補助的條件，我們一定克服所有的困難去解決，如果有必要，需要在法律上有所入法的話，我們可以來研議，因為這個是大家一起來討論，所以我想我們一定會把它做很審慎的研議。"],["羅委員美玲：本席今天跟你提的這些問題，你們都會在未來考量進去，因為其實大家都認為這個法案、這個草案不及格，所以我認為要重新再擬定這個內容是必然的，當然，部長剛剛有提到確實是有很大的問題，所以部長的意思是本席剛剛跟你提的新住民部分，都會在修法的過程當中再做討論嗎？所以有機會解決本席剛剛跟你所提的這些問題嗎？是這樣子嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：會加入討論。"],["羅委員美玲：關於新的社救法，其實大家都希望有一個新的修正後的版本出來，請問我們有時間表嗎？這個會期會有新的版本出來嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：我們希望新的社會救助法有很多亮點，我們一定……"],["羅委員美玲：未來會有很多的亮點嗎？是這樣子嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：對，包括怎麼樣脫貧，當然剛剛提到的這個部分只要是在對象裡面，我們一定讓他很順暢的得到補助，而且不要造成不方便。另外，在新的社會救助法的構想裡面也有緩衝期，比如，三加一，你可以去工作，你在工作的時候不會把你的補助取消，等四年以後，讓他存有一桶金。"],["羅委員美玲：OK！部長，我們期待，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：這就是讓他脫貧。"],["羅委員美玲：最主要是本席剛剛跟你提的問題，我希望在這次的社救法修法當中能夠得到解決，再來，還有希望剛剛本席所提的能夠明確入法。","再來，本席要跟你討論的是有關長照法，依據移民署提供的資料，截至今年8月底為止，在臺的新住民人數已經到達60萬1,546人，其中有一半已經歸化取得我國的國籍，也就是已經有30萬人已經取得我國的國籍，可是另外有30萬人是持短期跟長期居留，目前這個部分的新住民有30萬，也就是這30萬人是還沒有入籍的。","這30萬新住民之所以沒有入我國的國籍，除了有個人的意願，也有入籍的年限未到，甚至還有不得已的因素，我舉個例子，像柬埔寨，柬埔寨這個國家想要放棄他們的國籍，其實是一個非常困難的事。我國的新住民要取得我國國籍也必須放棄母國的國籍，所以柬埔寨有很多的新住民其實是沒有辦法入籍，這是非常不得已的狀況，最後只能選擇以長期居留的方式留在臺灣。這30萬未入籍的新住民很大部分都是臺灣人的配偶，臺灣小孩的爸爸或媽媽，他們在臺灣生活、工作、繳稅、履行國民義務，可是他們跟臺灣人一樣會年老、失智、失能，他們也會在臺灣終老，可是因為他們沒有取得臺灣的身分證，無法入籍，當然也沒有辦法享有長照服務。關於這個問題，過去我跟衛福部也做了很多討論，可是一直都沒有進展，終於到了今年9月，邱部長，你接受了媒體專訪，針對這些還未入籍的新住民，如果需要社會救濟或是長照服務，你說都可以研議提升相關權益來保障，事隔一個多月了，我想問問部長，這讓我們看到了一絲曙光，你對於這個部分有開始做規劃了嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：第一個就是說，因為這30萬如果已經取得中華民國國籍，大概就是不分族群，我們一定提供長照服務。"],["羅委員美玲：是，現在針對的是另外30萬未入籍的部分。"],["邱部長泰源：另外30萬只要他在臺灣居住，我們政府一定有各種方式或利用其他法律來給他最好的保障。"],["羅委員美玲：其他的法令是怎麼樣的法令呢？這部分因為部長您讓很多新住民看到了曙光，也讓民團肯定，當然事隔一個多月，不能只是嘴巴說說而已，這個還要去做規劃的，到底這30萬未設籍的新住民，請問部長，你們有沒有要規劃讓他們列入長照服務當中？"],["邱部長泰源：要列入長照體系可能比較茲事體大，但是他應該享有的醫療關懷，或者是類似長照這樣的服務，我們用……"],["羅委員美玲：醫療大概是沒有問題，因為我們有健保，可是長照的部分呢？長照的部分，當初你也說這個部分，你們會列入考量。"],["邱部長泰源：我們會儘速研議並跟委員報告現在的進度。"],["羅委員美玲：好。部長，給你一個建議，今年我們剛修完的人才專法第二十一條之一，也就是讓年長為臺灣付出與取得永居的外國人才也能享有身心障礙及長照服務。人才專法今年修了，更何況是本席剛剛所提到的這些長年在臺灣居住未設籍的新住民，其實他們都是臺灣人，雖然未有國籍，可是他們在臺灣終老，那像這個部分，請問部長，你們有沒有辦法參考人才專法第二十一條之一來做修法呢？"],["邱部長泰源：我們來研議。"],["羅委員美玲：這個會做研議，是不是？所以這個部分之後有在認真考慮嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：我想基於政府照顧所有人民的立場，不管他的國籍，我相信這個都是應該要去研議、考量。"],["羅委員美玲：OK！部長，不管是社救法也好，長照也好，本席也希望所有住在臺灣這塊土地的每一個人都能夠得到照顧。","再來，本席想請教部長的是，因為時間的關係，所以我還是要問有關於長照基金的財源收入，根據財政部的資料統計，長照基金的收入目前還是以房地合一稅源占最大宗，大概占了七成，再來就是菸稅等等，還有贈與稅、遺產稅、其他等等，可是看起來就是房地合一稅占最大宗。可是在上個星期就有報導指出，因為疫情的關係、股災、升息或是打房等等政策，房地合一稅已經連續走跌，房市下半年開始交易持續量縮，所以本席擔心長照基金的財源收入是否未來將會出現缺口，尤其是前陣子家庭照顧者總會也提出了警告，2028年長照基金即將耗盡，請問部長對未來長照基金這部分的財源，開拓其他的財源有沒有進一步的規劃？你們要如何來增加財源？更何況未來可能會把這30萬位未設籍的新住民也要納入長照的照顧當中，你們要如何維持長照基金的運作呢？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，今天詢答的時候，院長也有指示，我們會尋求財源來讓長照基金能夠有穩定的收入來源。"],["羅委員美玲：所以行政部門會有信心，就是長照基金會持續維持正常運作，是不是？"],["邱部長泰源：因為現在還相當的充裕，所以我們當然也要備不時之需，會早做準備。"],["羅委員美玲：部長，2025年臺灣即將要邁入超高齡社會，對長照也好，醫療也好，其實需求是會增加的，這部分我們應該要及早來規劃，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：是的。"],["羅委員美玲：好。以上，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝羅美玲委員的質詢，謝謝衛福部邱部長的備詢。","接下來請登記第16號劉建國委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":195,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-5","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","賴瑞隆","陳亭妃","陳俊宇","黃捷","李坤城","邱志偉","魯明哲","林沛祥","黃珊珊","陳昭姿","林憶君","羅廷瑋","范雲","李彥秀","王世堅","盧縣一","邱若華","葉元之","何欣純","徐欣瑩","羅美玲","劉建國"],"page_start":109,"meetingDate":["2024-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1138101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138101_00004","1138101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第5次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─ 詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1138101_00009"}}}