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715.058, \"end\": 715.078, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"綺\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,142 --> 00:00:22,631\n主席還有各位立委員同仁還有今天我們行政單位的各位夥伴們大家好我們現在有請李部長好我們有請李部長委員好部長好\n\n2\n00:00:31,550 --> 00:00:47,314\n部長我們請下一頁記得上個禮拜在院會質詢的時候本席提出這句話只有走不出歷史的人才會在文化威權中療傷那請問一下部長林靜德當時給我的回應是什麼嗎我覺得我們要面對歷史不要忘記歷史大家能夠真實的面對我們歷史的傷痛才能讓我們的仇恨翻頁\n\n3\n00:01:00,035 --> 00:01:22,274\n謝謝,重任翻譯我應該在上個會期聽到過應該您上個禮拜在回應我這句話的時候時間上可能沒有辦法把這個話記錄進去其實您只是很簡單的說說得很好那這個禮拜您有一些延伸所以我們就從您剛才所講的部分繼續下去那我們應該\n\n4\n00:01:23,735 --> 00:01:51,876\n翻頁往下一個部分開始走了那您剛才在講到這個希望天天都是文化日人人人都是文化人我自己本身覺得現在就已經是了所以在您講了這句話之後呢我也很期待未來我們在這樣子的一個基礎下能夠再往前走好謝謝所以今天本席要來跟您再探討有關於上個禮拜跟這個禮拜跟未來本席會注意的議題好那上個禮拜包括剛才\n\n5\n00:01:53,393 --> 00:02:11,754\n部長也有講到在我們面對過去的歷史應該翻頁您也知道在上個禮拜您也講到在全台灣的這個文化面其實很多元所以本席在這邊要來跟您再討論記得本席上個禮拜提出人權博物館的一些數據相信您應該是有記得\n\n6\n00:02:12,735 --> 00:02:39,189\n人權博物館的展對我記得那有一些數據嘛那我們知道這個白色恐怖的展大概至少一半以上62.5然後你們的出版品大概有接近70都是白色恐怖您在當時也覺得那台灣的族群多元那展覽在各個歷史的時期都應該被涵蓋但是本席的查詢人權博物館在10月份的展出8個裡面還是7個跟白色恐怖時期有關的\n\n7\n00:02:40,009 --> 00:02:42,091\n那看起來還沒有跳脫出歷史的選擇跟還沒有擴大歷史時期的範圍那部長您對於這個部分的看法謝謝委員給我機會回答其實白色恐怖這樣一個名詞在台灣歷史上是一個漫長而非常複雜的時期\n\n8\n00:02:58,968 --> 00:02:59,048\n我還要繼續講\n\n9\n00:03:24,923 --> 00:03:25,524\n人權博物館現在你們的空間範圍有哪一些?\n\n10\n00:03:46,673 --> 00:04:00,425\n我們空間範圍裏面是原來那些當年在這個空間裏面所有的逮捕跟審問我們保持原來的樣子他是一個把過去的文化資產再做轉換的一個場面重新整修過請問一下那我直接問你們綠島\n\n11\n00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:23,465\n原區目前的工程季度在什麼在什麼狀況綠島工程園區還是繼續在進行修復中那您知道省紀部對於綠島園區有提出一些看法嗎有那所以您這個部分怎麼因應呢我們會修正啊好的那如果我的認知沒錯人權博物館是包括這兩個部分喔\n\n12\n00:04:24,466 --> 00:04:38,700\n假設你們已經把綠島你們目前連工程都發不出去那在景美就成為一個重症那本席所提到這個問題請問您該怎麼處理您是他直接就叫白色恐怖園區還是他是人權博物館\n\n13\n00:04:39,502 --> 00:04:56,316\n那個請你給我一點時間回答我有兩點要重新藉這個地方重新要很認真的回答第一白色恐怖受害者包括各種族群外省人本省人原住民都是在白色恐怖中受害只有壓迫者跟被壓迫者跟\n\n14\n00:04:57,737 --> 00:05:05,231\n你還是一直回到白色恐怖嘛那你上個禮拜不是談到每一個台灣的歷史時期除非我們對歷史時期的認知不一樣歷史時期不是只有這幾十年所以我想請教一下那日本人對我們的壓迫\n\n15\n00:05:11,277 --> 00:05:39,782\n您認同嗎?你看看那個聽海勇就是講日本對我們的破壞他怎麼樣殘忍的白色恐怖跟這個博物館我們還有228紀念館他每一個地方都在懷念不同的歷史不好意思部長本席記得上個禮拜也跟您講過您說的話本席經常在聽也有感動但是本席從這半年來一直感覺到您言行不一所以本席這邊直接的建議\n\n16\n00:05:41,601 --> 00:05:51,415\n人權不管不是每一個展都不好但是請你們擴大展覽的概念不要再繼續鎖定在白色恐怖您可以給本席一個promise嗎一個承諾\n\n17\n00:05:53,548 --> 00:06:21,584\n從11月開始或至少明年開始11月在展示的部分可以跳脫這樣一個範圍嗎可以你再給我一點時間我個人那我給你一點時間去對這個展覽展示去做一些整理因為那個人權博物館的法律師因為他是威權時代的那個白色恐怖其實我來之後就有跟人權博物館的館長講我們要多辦一些人權影展包括校園霸凌兩性性別歧視\n\n18\n00:06:23,385 --> 00:06:40,116\n謝謝部長記得您現在所講的話半年以後我們再來檢視好嗎那11月就應該要有一些調整了接下來本席跟您談一下這個文化幣的部分文化幣你們的源起是因為疫情的觸動所以但是\n\n19\n00:06:43,999 --> 00:07:01,697\n我相信你們有調查文化幣大概會取決於一些特定文化跟商家所以第一個部分本期要跟你談城鄉的差距所以在文化幣你們的調查當中呢在2022年這個數據是總共使用的商家有7萬多家但是八成在六都\n\n20\n00:07:02,915 --> 00:07:14,114\n這個比例還有整個商家的數量大概79九點多快八成所以這個議題產生出來的文化差距請問一下部長您這個部分怎麼處理\n\n21\n00:07:15,171 --> 00:07:36,019\n其實委員你講到重點了因為我們的人口還有文化的享用都是集中在六都所以當我們開始發文化幣的時候的確是在這個六都裡面使用率跟引用率最多那在全世界的國家歐洲國家它的使用率更低是因為它的傳播率更少\n\n22\n00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:52,835\n這是別的國家的事啦對可是台灣已經算是理用率跟引用率是非常高的國家是的使用率高那本席這邊要來跟您做一個討論所以我們接下來第一個城鄉差距請您給本席一個很具體的回應\n\n23\n00:07:53,376 --> 00:08:13,873\n因為每一次的質詢你好像都聽得懂但是做出來的事情跟我們都相差十萬八千里所以請你在這個部分能夠給本席很具體的一個回應書面好嗎好可以好接下來您剛才講到文化幣想要向下示範13到15歲但是文化幣就我們的調查還有你們相關的這個數據其實買書的書店出版業有3.38億的消費額占整體消費額的百分之幾乎50\n\n24\n00:08:20,919 --> 00:08:36,551\n那我們也發現使用最多的其實是碩博士的一個年齡層你現在13到15本席在這邊具體的建議請你往上升到22到25請你做一個思考給本席一個最比較具體的回應好嗎好謝謝\n\n25\n00:08:39,094 --> 00:09:05,256\n接下來本席跟您談一下表演藝術跟文化資產的一個結合那我相信您應該看過表演藝術在文化資產的場域有一些結合的case不曉得您有什麼樣的概念要跟本席回應一下嗎我們對台灣的表演藝術的定義很多除了戲劇你知道有什麼樣的例子在台灣目前表演藝術跟文化資產結合嗎\n\n26\n00:09:06,650 --> 00:09:07,617\n本人意思跟文化資產結合\n\n27\n00:09:10,148 --> 00:09:35,143\n你好那因為本席是學表演藝術會比較專注這個部分所以像過去金枝眼社曾經在淡雪的護圍砲台那麼一載京城也曾經有人邀請一些所謂的西方古典音樂的音樂家去那邊演出那這一類場館的結合其實在部會裡面你們的業務都是可以結合的所以善用文化資產的活化讓表演藝術跟文化資產結合\n\n28\n00:09:36,824 --> 00:09:54,120\n所以接下來本期就有個建議這個你們的業務報告裡面有談到原住民的區塊當然你們要建置原住民的一個文化資產的概念但是你們在今年也談到有一些文化活動其實你們過去也辦過幾場那今年是你們標榜的臺灣臺南400年那請問你知道2026是什麼樣子的哪邊的400年嗎\n\n29\n00:10:03,490 --> 00:10:10,694\n臺灣當然是一個南島民族開始的幾千年那是我們最珍貴的最珍貴的資產那如果我們對歷史時期的認知同樣的話2026是臺灣進入大安海時代開始被西方人發現\n\n30\n00:10:19,358 --> 00:10:45,583\n但是西班牙人：發現可能更早：部長我這邊直接講2026是西班牙人來臺400周年你們是不是應該從明年就開始準備一下這件事情讓我們知道2026年臺灣很早就已經要進今年已經要進大航海時期了那2026年也是一個很重要的里程碑最後有關於文化資產文化景觀的這個部分待會我們在交通部要討論文化資產跟鐵道\n\n31\n00:10:48,356 --> 00:11:04,568\n的一個狀況那我知道部裡面現在有鐵道博物館所以鐵道交通網絡你們也應該要關心因為最後我們還是會討論到事權統一的問題所以台灣現在唯一一個煤礦博物館你知道在哪嗎\n\n32\n00:11:05,543 --> 00:11:25,776\n在那個瑞芳那邊對瑞芳地區那本席這邊跟你講一下有一個新平溪煤礦博物館在暑假這段期間大家一直在搶救他為什麼呢因為國土計畫法要施行了這是一個全面性的問題可是衝擊到的是文化資產所以也請您注意到這是一個\n\n33\n00:11:26,576 --> 00:11:54,270\n目前還一直存在的在現地的一個遺址他還不是遺址喔我們還可以繼續讓他活化所以請關注目前鐵道在過往歷史裡面重要的角色包括煤礦包括台灣的許多礦林業等等那我想待會我們會再更深入的討論在交通委員會但是請部裡面注意一下這件事情好嗎會我會把這個納入我們的文化部分\n\n34\n00:11:55,017 --> 00:11:55,078\n林倩綺議員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10142\t22631\t主席還有各位立委員同仁還有今天我們行政單位的各位夥伴們大家好我們現在有請李部長好 我們有請李部長委員好部長好\n31550\t47314\t部長我們請下一頁記得上個禮拜在院會質詢的時候本席提出這句話只有走不出歷史的人才會在文化威權中療傷那請問一下部長林靜德當時給我的回應是什麼嗎我覺得我們要面對歷史不要忘記歷史大家能夠真實的面對我們歷史的傷痛才能讓我們的仇恨翻頁\n60035\t82274\t謝謝,重任翻譯我應該在上個會期聽到過應該您上個禮拜在回應我這句話的時候時間上可能沒有辦法把這個話記錄進去其實您只是很簡單的說說得很好那這個禮拜您有一些延伸所以我們就從您剛才所講的部分繼續下去那我們應該\n83735\t111876\t翻頁往下一個部分開始走了那您剛才在講到這個希望天天都是文化日人人人都是文化人我自己本身覺得現在就已經是了所以在您講了這句話之後呢我也很期待未來我們在這樣子的一個基礎下能夠再往前走好謝謝所以今天本席要來跟您再探討有關於上個禮拜跟這個禮拜跟未來本席會注意的議題好那上個禮拜包括剛才\n113393\t131754\t部長也有講到在我們面對過去的歷史應該翻頁您也知道在上個禮拜您也講到在全台灣的這個文化面其實很多元所以本席在這邊要來跟您再討論記得本席上個禮拜提出人權博物館的一些數據相信您應該是有記得\n132735\t159189\t人權博物館的展對我記得那有一些數據嘛那我們知道這個白色恐怖的展大概至少一半以上62.5然後你們的出版品大概有接近70都是白色恐怖您在當時也覺得那台灣的族群多元那展覽在各個歷史的時期都應該被涵蓋但是本席的查詢人權博物館在10月份的展出8個裡面還是7個跟白色恐怖時期有關的\n160009\t162091\t那看起來還沒有跳脫出歷史的選擇跟還沒有擴大歷史時期的範圍那部長您對於這個部分的看法謝謝委員給我機會回答其實白色恐怖這樣一個名詞在台灣歷史上是一個漫長而非常複雜的時期\n178968\t179048\t我還要繼續講\n204923\t205524\t人權博物館現在你們的空間範圍有哪一些?\n226673\t240425\t我們空間範圍裏面是原來那些當年在這個空間裏面所有的逮捕跟審問我們保持原來的樣子他是一個把過去的文化資產再做轉換的一個場面重新整修過請問一下那我直接問你們綠島\n243720\t263465\t原區目前的工程季度在什麼在什麼狀況綠島工程園區還是繼續在進行修復中那您知道省紀部對於綠島園區有提出一些看法嗎有那所以您這個部分怎麼因應呢我們會修正啊好的那如果我的認知沒錯人權博物館是包括這兩個部分喔\n264466\t278700\t假設你們已經把綠島你們目前連工程都發不出去那在景美就成為一個重症那本席所提到這個問題請問您該怎麼處理您是他直接就叫白色恐怖園區還是他是人權博物館\n279502\t296316\t那個請你給我一點時間回答我有兩點要重新藉這個地方重新要很認真的回答第一白色恐怖受害者包括各種族群外省人本省人原住民都是在白色恐怖中受害只有壓迫者跟被壓迫者跟\n297737\t305231\t你還是一直回到白色恐怖嘛那你上個禮拜不是談到每一個台灣的歷史時期除非我們對歷史時期的認知不一樣歷史時期不是只有這幾十年所以我想請教一下那日本人對我們的壓迫\n311277\t339782\t您認同嗎?你看看那個聽海勇就是講日本對我們的破壞他怎麼樣殘忍的白色恐怖跟這個博物館我們還有228紀念館他每一個地方都在懷念不同的歷史不好意思部長本席記得上個禮拜也跟您講過您說的話本席經常在聽也有感動但是本席從這半年來一直感覺到您言行不一所以本席這邊直接的建議\n341601\t351415\t人權不管不是每一個展都不好但是請你們擴大展覽的概念不要再繼續鎖定在白色恐怖您可以給本席一個promise嗎一個承諾\n353548\t381584\t從11月開始或至少明年開始11月在展示的部分可以跳脫這樣一個範圍嗎可以你再給我一點時間我個人那我給你一點時間去對這個展覽展示去做一些整理因為那個人權博物館的法律師因為他是威權時代的那個白色恐怖其實我來之後就有跟人權博物館的館長講我們要多辦一些人權影展包括校園霸凌兩性性別歧視\n383385\t400116\t謝謝部長記得您現在所講的話半年以後我們再來檢視好嗎那11月就應該要有一些調整了接下來本席跟您談一下這個文化幣的部分文化幣你們的源起是因為疫情的觸動所以但是\n403999\t421697\t我相信你們有調查文化幣大概會取決於一些特定文化跟商家所以第一個部分本期要跟你談城鄉的差距所以在文化幣你們的調查當中呢在2022年這個數據是總共使用的商家有7萬多家但是八成在六都\n422915\t434114\t這個比例還有整個商家的數量大概79九點多快八成所以這個議題產生出來的文化差距請問一下部長您這個部分怎麼處理\n435171\t456019\t其實委員你講到重點了因為我們的人口還有文化的享用都是集中在六都所以當我們開始發文化幣的時候的確是在這個六都裡面使用率跟引用率最多那在全世界的國家歐洲國家它的使用率更低是因為它的傳播率更少\n457200\t472835\t這是別的國家的事啦對可是台灣已經算是理用率跟引用率是非常高的國家是的使用率高那本席這邊要來跟您做一個討論所以我們接下來第一個城鄉差距請您給本席一個很具體的回應\n473376\t493873\t因為每一次的質詢你好像都聽得懂但是做出來的事情跟我們都相差十萬八千里所以請你在這個部分能夠給本席很具體的一個回應書面好嗎好可以好接下來您剛才講到文化幣想要向下示範13到15歲但是文化幣就我們的調查還有你們相關的這個數據其實買書的書店出版業有3.38億的消費額占整體消費額的百分之幾乎50\n500919\t516551\t那我們也發現使用最多的其實是碩博士的一個年齡層你現在13到15本席在這邊具體的建議請你往上升到22到25請你做一個思考給本席一個最比較具體的回應好嗎好謝謝\n519094\t545256\t接下來本席跟您談一下表演藝術跟文化資產的一個結合那我相信您應該看過表演藝術在文化資產的場域有一些結合的case不曉得您有什麼樣的概念要跟本席回應一下嗎我們對台灣的表演藝術的定義很多除了戲劇你知道有什麼樣的例子在台灣目前表演藝術跟文化資產結合嗎\n546650\t547617\t本人意思跟文化資產結合\n550148\t575143\t你好那因為本席是學表演藝術會比較專注這個部分所以像過去金枝眼社曾經在淡雪的護圍砲台那麼一載京城也曾經有人邀請一些所謂的西方古典音樂的音樂家去那邊演出那這一類場館的結合其實在部會裡面你們的業務都是可以結合的所以善用文化資產的活化讓表演藝術跟文化資產結合\n576824\t594120\t所以接下來本期就有個建議這個你們的業務報告裡面有談到原住民的區塊當然你們要建置原住民的一個文化資產的概念但是你們在今年也談到有一些文化活動其實你們過去也辦過幾場那今年是你們標榜的臺灣臺南400年那請問你知道2026是什麼樣子的哪邊的400年嗎\n603490\t610694\t臺灣當然是一個南島民族開始的幾千年那是我們最珍貴的最珍貴的資產那如果我們對歷史時期的認知同樣的話2026是臺灣進入大安海時代開始被西方人發現\n619358\t645583\t但是西班牙人：發現可能更早：部長我這邊直接講2026是西班牙人來臺400周年你們是不是應該從明年就開始準備一下這件事情讓我們知道2026年臺灣很早就已經要進今年已經要進大航海時期了那2026年也是一個很重要的里程碑最後有關於文化資產文化景觀的這個部分待會我們在交通部要討論文化資產跟鐵道\n648356\t664568\t的一個狀況那我知道部裡面現在有鐵道博物館所以鐵道交通網絡你們也應該要關心因為最後我們還是會討論到事權統一的問題所以台灣現在唯一一個煤礦博物館你知道在哪嗎\n665543\t685776\t在那個瑞芳那邊對瑞芳地區那本席這邊跟你講一下有一個新平溪煤礦博物館在暑假這段期間大家一直在搶救他為什麼呢因為國土計畫法要施行了這是一個全面性的問題可是衝擊到的是文化資產所以也請您注意到這是一個\n686576\t714270\t目前還一直存在的在現地的一個遺址他還不是遺址喔我們還可以繼續讓他活化所以請關注目前鐵道在過往歷史裡面重要的角色包括煤礦包括台灣的許多礦林業等等那我想待會我們會再更深入的討論在交通委員會但是請部裡面注意一下這件事情好嗎會我會把這個納入我們的文化部分\n715017\t715078\t林倩綺議員\n","txt":"主席還有各位立委員同仁還有今天我們行政單位的各位夥伴們大家好我們現在有請李部長好 我們有請李部長委員好部長好\n部長我們請下一頁記得上個禮拜在院會質詢的時候本席提出這句話只有走不出歷史的人才會在文化威權中療傷那請問一下部長林靜德當時給我的回應是什麼嗎我覺得我們要面對歷史不要忘記歷史大家能夠真實的面對我們歷史的傷痛才能讓我們的仇恨翻頁\n謝謝,重任翻譯我應該在上個會期聽到過應該您上個禮拜在回應我這句話的時候時間上可能沒有辦法把這個話記錄進去其實您只是很簡單的說說得很好那這個禮拜您有一些延伸所以我們就從您剛才所講的部分繼續下去那我們應該\n翻頁往下一個部分開始走了那您剛才在講到這個希望天天都是文化日人人人都是文化人我自己本身覺得現在就已經是了所以在您講了這句話之後呢我也很期待未來我們在這樣子的一個基礎下能夠再往前走好謝謝所以今天本席要來跟您再探討有關於上個禮拜跟這個禮拜跟未來本席會注意的議題好那上個禮拜包括剛才\n部長也有講到在我們面對過去的歷史應該翻頁您也知道在上個禮拜您也講到在全台灣的這個文化面其實很多元所以本席在這邊要來跟您再討論記得本席上個禮拜提出人權博物館的一些數據相信您應該是有記得\n人權博物館的展對我記得那有一些數據嘛那我們知道這個白色恐怖的展大概至少一半以上62.5然後你們的出版品大概有接近70都是白色恐怖您在當時也覺得那台灣的族群多元那展覽在各個歷史的時期都應該被涵蓋但是本席的查詢人權博物館在10月份的展出8個裡面還是7個跟白色恐怖時期有關的\n那看起來還沒有跳脫出歷史的選擇跟還沒有擴大歷史時期的範圍那部長您對於這個部分的看法謝謝委員給我機會回答其實白色恐怖這樣一個名詞在台灣歷史上是一個漫長而非常複雜的時期\n我還要繼續講\n人權博物館現在你們的空間範圍有哪一些?\n我們空間範圍裏面是原來那些當年在這個空間裏面所有的逮捕跟審問我們保持原來的樣子他是一個把過去的文化資產再做轉換的一個場面重新整修過請問一下那我直接問你們綠島\n原區目前的工程季度在什麼在什麼狀況綠島工程園區還是繼續在進行修復中那您知道省紀部對於綠島園區有提出一些看法嗎有那所以您這個部分怎麼因應呢我們會修正啊好的那如果我的認知沒錯人權博物館是包括這兩個部分喔\n假設你們已經把綠島你們目前連工程都發不出去那在景美就成為一個重症那本席所提到這個問題請問您該怎麼處理您是他直接就叫白色恐怖園區還是他是人權博物館\n那個請你給我一點時間回答我有兩點要重新藉這個地方重新要很認真的回答第一白色恐怖受害者包括各種族群外省人本省人原住民都是在白色恐怖中受害只有壓迫者跟被壓迫者跟\n你還是一直回到白色恐怖嘛那你上個禮拜不是談到每一個台灣的歷史時期除非我們對歷史時期的認知不一樣歷史時期不是只有這幾十年所以我想請教一下那日本人對我們的壓迫\n您認同嗎?你看看那個聽海勇就是講日本對我們的破壞他怎麼樣殘忍的白色恐怖跟這個博物館我們還有228紀念館他每一個地方都在懷念不同的歷史不好意思部長本席記得上個禮拜也跟您講過您說的話本席經常在聽也有感動但是本席從這半年來一直感覺到您言行不一所以本席這邊直接的建議\n人權不管不是每一個展都不好但是請你們擴大展覽的概念不要再繼續鎖定在白色恐怖您可以給本席一個promise嗎一個承諾\n從11月開始或至少明年開始11月在展示的部分可以跳脫這樣一個範圍嗎可以你再給我一點時間我個人那我給你一點時間去對這個展覽展示去做一些整理因為那個人權博物館的法律師因為他是威權時代的那個白色恐怖其實我來之後就有跟人權博物館的館長講我們要多辦一些人權影展包括校園霸凌兩性性別歧視\n謝謝部長記得您現在所講的話半年以後我們再來檢視好嗎那11月就應該要有一些調整了接下來本席跟您談一下這個文化幣的部分文化幣你們的源起是因為疫情的觸動所以但是\n我相信你們有調查文化幣大概會取決於一些特定文化跟商家所以第一個部分本期要跟你談城鄉的差距所以在文化幣你們的調查當中呢在2022年這個數據是總共使用的商家有7萬多家但是八成在六都\n這個比例還有整個商家的數量大概79九點多快八成所以這個議題產生出來的文化差距請問一下部長您這個部分怎麼處理\n其實委員你講到重點了因為我們的人口還有文化的享用都是集中在六都所以當我們開始發文化幣的時候的確是在這個六都裡面使用率跟引用率最多那在全世界的國家歐洲國家它的使用率更低是因為它的傳播率更少\n這是別的國家的事啦對可是台灣已經算是理用率跟引用率是非常高的國家是的使用率高那本席這邊要來跟您做一個討論所以我們接下來第一個城鄉差距請您給本席一個很具體的回應\n因為每一次的質詢你好像都聽得懂但是做出來的事情跟我們都相差十萬八千里所以請你在這個部分能夠給本席很具體的一個回應書面好嗎好可以好接下來您剛才講到文化幣想要向下示範13到15歲但是文化幣就我們的調查還有你們相關的這個數據其實買書的書店出版業有3.38億的消費額占整體消費額的百分之幾乎50\n那我們也發現使用最多的其實是碩博士的一個年齡層你現在13到15本席在這邊具體的建議請你往上升到22到25請你做一個思考給本席一個最比較具體的回應好嗎好謝謝\n接下來本席跟您談一下表演藝術跟文化資產的一個結合那我相信您應該看過表演藝術在文化資產的場域有一些結合的case不曉得您有什麼樣的概念要跟本席回應一下嗎我們對台灣的表演藝術的定義很多除了戲劇你知道有什麼樣的例子在台灣目前表演藝術跟文化資產結合嗎\n本人意思跟文化資產結合\n你好那因為本席是學表演藝術會比較專注這個部分所以像過去金枝眼社曾經在淡雪的護圍砲台那麼一載京城也曾經有人邀請一些所謂的西方古典音樂的音樂家去那邊演出那這一類場館的結合其實在部會裡面你們的業務都是可以結合的所以善用文化資產的活化讓表演藝術跟文化資產結合\n所以接下來本期就有個建議這個你們的業務報告裡面有談到原住民的區塊當然你們要建置原住民的一個文化資產的概念但是你們在今年也談到有一些文化活動其實你們過去也辦過幾場那今年是你們標榜的臺灣臺南400年那請問你知道2026是什麼樣子的哪邊的400年嗎\n臺灣當然是一個南島民族開始的幾千年那是我們最珍貴的最珍貴的資產那如果我們對歷史時期的認知同樣的話2026是臺灣進入大安海時代開始被西方人發現\n但是西班牙人：發現可能更早：部長我這邊直接講2026是西班牙人來臺400周年你們是不是應該從明年就開始準備一下這件事情讓我們知道2026年臺灣很早就已經要進今年已經要進大航海時期了那2026年也是一個很重要的里程碑最後有關於文化資產文化景觀的這個部分待會我們在交通部要討論文化資產跟鐵道\n的一個狀況那我知道部裡面現在有鐵道博物館所以鐵道交通網絡你們也應該要關心因為最後我們還是會討論到事權統一的問題所以台灣現在唯一一個煤礦博物館你知道在哪嗎\n在那個瑞芳那邊對瑞芳地區那本席這邊跟你講一下有一個新平溪煤礦博物館在暑假這段期間大家一直在搶救他為什麼呢因為國土計畫法要施行了這是一個全面性的問題可是衝擊到的是文化資產所以也請您注意到這是一個\n目前還一直存在的在現地的一個遺址他還不是遺址喔我們還可以繼續讓他活化所以請關注目前鐵道在過往歷史裡面重要的角色包括煤礦包括台灣的許多礦林業等等那我想待會我們會再更深入的討論在交通委員會但是請部裡面注意一下這件事情好嗎會我會把這個納入我們的文化部分\n林倩綺議員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.142 --> 00:22.631\n主席還有各位立委員同仁還有今天我們行政單位的各位夥伴們大家好我們現在有請李部長好我們有請李部長委員好部長好\n\n00:31.550 --> 00:47.314\n部長我們請下一頁記得上個禮拜在院會質詢的時候本席提出這句話只有走不出歷史的人才會在文化威權中療傷那請問一下部長林靜德當時給我的回應是什麼嗎我覺得我們要面對歷史不要忘記歷史大家能夠真實的面對我們歷史的傷痛才能讓我們的仇恨翻頁\n\n01:00.035 --> 01:22.274\n謝謝,重任翻譯我應該在上個會期聽到過應該您上個禮拜在回應我這句話的時候時間上可能沒有辦法把這個話記錄進去其實您只是很簡單的說說得很好那這個禮拜您有一些延伸所以我們就從您剛才所講的部分繼續下去那我們應該\n\n01:23.735 --> 01:51.876\n翻頁往下一個部分開始走了那您剛才在講到這個希望天天都是文化日人人人都是文化人我自己本身覺得現在就已經是了所以在您講了這句話之後呢我也很期待未來我們在這樣子的一個基礎下能夠再往前走好謝謝所以今天本席要來跟您再探討有關於上個禮拜跟這個禮拜跟未來本席會注意的議題好那上個禮拜包括剛才\n\n01:53.393 --> 02:11.754\n部長也有講到在我們面對過去的歷史應該翻頁您也知道在上個禮拜您也講到在全台灣的這個文化面其實很多元所以本席在這邊要來跟您再討論記得本席上個禮拜提出人權博物館的一些數據相信您應該是有記得\n\n02:12.735 --> 02:39.189\n人權博物館的展對我記得那有一些數據嘛那我們知道這個白色恐怖的展大概至少一半以上62.5然後你們的出版品大概有接近70都是白色恐怖您在當時也覺得那台灣的族群多元那展覽在各個歷史的時期都應該被涵蓋但是本席的查詢人權博物館在10月份的展出8個裡面還是7個跟白色恐怖時期有關的\n\n02:40.009 --> 02:42.091\n那看起來還沒有跳脫出歷史的選擇跟還沒有擴大歷史時期的範圍那部長您對於這個部分的看法謝謝委員給我機會回答其實白色恐怖這樣一個名詞在台灣歷史上是一個漫長而非常複雜的時期\n\n02:58.968 --> 02:59.048\n我還要繼續講\n\n03:24.923 --> 03:25.524\n人權博物館現在你們的空間範圍有哪一些?\n\n03:46.673 --> 04:00.425\n我們空間範圍裏面是原來那些當年在這個空間裏面所有的逮捕跟審問我們保持原來的樣子他是一個把過去的文化資產再做轉換的一個場面重新整修過請問一下那我直接問你們綠島\n\n04:03.720 --> 04:23.465\n原區目前的工程季度在什麼在什麼狀況綠島工程園區還是繼續在進行修復中那您知道省紀部對於綠島園區有提出一些看法嗎有那所以您這個部分怎麼因應呢我們會修正啊好的那如果我的認知沒錯人權博物館是包括這兩個部分喔\n\n04:24.466 --> 04:38.700\n假設你們已經把綠島你們目前連工程都發不出去那在景美就成為一個重症那本席所提到這個問題請問您該怎麼處理您是他直接就叫白色恐怖園區還是他是人權博物館\n\n04:39.502 --> 04:56.316\n那個請你給我一點時間回答我有兩點要重新藉這個地方重新要很認真的回答第一白色恐怖受害者包括各種族群外省人本省人原住民都是在白色恐怖中受害只有壓迫者跟被壓迫者跟\n\n04:57.737 --> 05:05.231\n你還是一直回到白色恐怖嘛那你上個禮拜不是談到每一個台灣的歷史時期除非我們對歷史時期的認知不一樣歷史時期不是只有這幾十年所以我想請教一下那日本人對我們的壓迫\n\n05:11.277 --> 05:39.782\n您認同嗎?你看看那個聽海勇就是講日本對我們的破壞他怎麼樣殘忍的白色恐怖跟這個博物館我們還有228紀念館他每一個地方都在懷念不同的歷史不好意思部長本席記得上個禮拜也跟您講過您說的話本席經常在聽也有感動但是本席從這半年來一直感覺到您言行不一所以本席這邊直接的建議\n\n05:41.601 --> 05:51.415\n人權不管不是每一個展都不好但是請你們擴大展覽的概念不要再繼續鎖定在白色恐怖您可以給本席一個promise嗎一個承諾\n\n05:53.548 --> 06:21.584\n從11月開始或至少明年開始11月在展示的部分可以跳脫這樣一個範圍嗎可以你再給我一點時間我個人那我給你一點時間去對這個展覽展示去做一些整理因為那個人權博物館的法律師因為他是威權時代的那個白色恐怖其實我來之後就有跟人權博物館的館長講我們要多辦一些人權影展包括校園霸凌兩性性別歧視\n\n06:23.385 --> 06:40.116\n謝謝部長記得您現在所講的話半年以後我們再來檢視好嗎那11月就應該要有一些調整了接下來本席跟您談一下這個文化幣的部分文化幣你們的源起是因為疫情的觸動所以但是\n\n06:43.999 --> 07:01.697\n我相信你們有調查文化幣大概會取決於一些特定文化跟商家所以第一個部分本期要跟你談城鄉的差距所以在文化幣你們的調查當中呢在2022年這個數據是總共使用的商家有7萬多家但是八成在六都\n\n07:02.915 --> 07:14.114\n這個比例還有整個商家的數量大概79九點多快八成所以這個議題產生出來的文化差距請問一下部長您這個部分怎麼處理\n\n07:15.171 --> 07:36.019\n其實委員你講到重點了因為我們的人口還有文化的享用都是集中在六都所以當我們開始發文化幣的時候的確是在這個六都裡面使用率跟引用率最多那在全世界的國家歐洲國家它的使用率更低是因為它的傳播率更少\n\n07:37.200 --> 07:52.835\n這是別的國家的事啦對可是台灣已經算是理用率跟引用率是非常高的國家是的使用率高那本席這邊要來跟您做一個討論所以我們接下來第一個城鄉差距請您給本席一個很具體的回應\n\n07:53.376 --> 08:13.873\n因為每一次的質詢你好像都聽得懂但是做出來的事情跟我們都相差十萬八千里所以請你在這個部分能夠給本席很具體的一個回應書面好嗎好可以好接下來您剛才講到文化幣想要向下示範13到15歲但是文化幣就我們的調查還有你們相關的這個數據其實買書的書店出版業有3.38億的消費額占整體消費額的百分之幾乎50\n\n08:20.919 --> 08:36.551\n那我們也發現使用最多的其實是碩博士的一個年齡層你現在13到15本席在這邊具體的建議請你往上升到22到25請你做一個思考給本席一個最比較具體的回應好嗎好謝謝\n\n08:39.094 --> 09:05.256\n接下來本席跟您談一下表演藝術跟文化資產的一個結合那我相信您應該看過表演藝術在文化資產的場域有一些結合的case不曉得您有什麼樣的概念要跟本席回應一下嗎我們對台灣的表演藝術的定義很多除了戲劇你知道有什麼樣的例子在台灣目前表演藝術跟文化資產結合嗎\n\n09:06.650 --> 09:07.617\n本人意思跟文化資產結合\n\n09:10.148 --> 09:35.143\n你好那因為本席是學表演藝術會比較專注這個部分所以像過去金枝眼社曾經在淡雪的護圍砲台那麼一載京城也曾經有人邀請一些所謂的西方古典音樂的音樂家去那邊演出那這一類場館的結合其實在部會裡面你們的業務都是可以結合的所以善用文化資產的活化讓表演藝術跟文化資產結合\n\n09:36.824 --> 09:54.120\n所以接下來本期就有個建議這個你們的業務報告裡面有談到原住民的區塊當然你們要建置原住民的一個文化資產的概念但是你們在今年也談到有一些文化活動其實你們過去也辦過幾場那今年是你們標榜的臺灣臺南400年那請問你知道2026是什麼樣子的哪邊的400年嗎\n\n10:03.490 --> 10:10.694\n臺灣當然是一個南島民族開始的幾千年那是我們最珍貴的最珍貴的資產那如果我們對歷史時期的認知同樣的話2026是臺灣進入大安海時代開始被西方人發現\n\n10:19.358 --> 10:45.583\n但是西班牙人：發現可能更早：部長我這邊直接講2026是西班牙人來臺400周年你們是不是應該從明年就開始準備一下這件事情讓我們知道2026年臺灣很早就已經要進今年已經要進大航海時期了那2026年也是一個很重要的里程碑最後有關於文化資產文化景觀的這個部分待會我們在交通部要討論文化資產跟鐵道\n\n10:48.356 --> 11:04.568\n的一個狀況那我知道部裡面現在有鐵道博物館所以鐵道交通網絡你們也應該要關心因為最後我們還是會討論到事權統一的問題所以台灣現在唯一一個煤礦博物館你知道在哪嗎\n\n11:05.543 --> 11:25.776\n在那個瑞芳那邊對瑞芳地區那本席這邊跟你講一下有一個新平溪煤礦博物館在暑假這段期間大家一直在搶救他為什麼呢因為國土計畫法要施行了這是一個全面性的問題可是衝擊到的是文化資產所以也請您注意到這是一個\n\n11:26.576 --> 11:54.270\n目前還一直存在的在現地的一個遺址他還不是遺址喔我們還可以繼續讓他活化所以請關注目前鐵道在過往歷史裡面重要的角色包括煤礦包括台灣的許多礦林業等等那我想待會我們會再更深入的討論在交通委員會但是請部裡面注意一下這件事情好嗎會我會把這個納入我們的文化部分\n\n11:55.017 --> 11:55.078\n林倩綺議員\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.142,"end":22.631,"text":"主席還有各位立委員同仁還有今天我們行政單位的各位夥伴們大家好我們現在有請李部長好 我們有請李部長委員好部長好"},{"start":31.55,"end":47.314,"text":"部長我們請下一頁記得上個禮拜在院會質詢的時候本席提出這句話只有走不出歷史的人才會在文化威權中療傷那請問一下部長林靜德當時給我的回應是什麼嗎我覺得我們要面對歷史不要忘記歷史大家能夠真實的面對我們歷史的傷痛才能讓我們的仇恨翻頁"},{"start":60.035,"end":82.274,"text":"謝謝,重任翻譯我應該在上個會期聽到過應該您上個禮拜在回應我這句話的時候時間上可能沒有辦法把這個話記錄進去其實您只是很簡單的說說得很好那這個禮拜您有一些延伸所以我們就從您剛才所講的部分繼續下去那我們應該"},{"start":83.735,"end":111.876,"text":"翻頁往下一個部分開始走了那您剛才在講到這個希望天天都是文化日人人人都是文化人我自己本身覺得現在就已經是了所以在您講了這句話之後呢我也很期待未來我們在這樣子的一個基礎下能夠再往前走好謝謝所以今天本席要來跟您再探討有關於上個禮拜跟這個禮拜跟未來本席會注意的議題好那上個禮拜包括剛才"},{"start":113.393,"end":131.754,"text":"部長也有講到在我們面對過去的歷史應該翻頁您也知道在上個禮拜您也講到在全台灣的這個文化面其實很多元所以本席在這邊要來跟您再討論記得本席上個禮拜提出人權博物館的一些數據相信您應該是有記得"},{"start":132.735,"end":159.189,"text":"人權博物館的展對我記得那有一些數據嘛那我們知道這個白色恐怖的展大概至少一半以上62.5然後你們的出版品大概有接近70都是白色恐怖您在當時也覺得那台灣的族群多元那展覽在各個歷史的時期都應該被涵蓋但是本席的查詢人權博物館在10月份的展出8個裡面還是7個跟白色恐怖時期有關的"},{"start":160.009,"end":162.091,"text":"那看起來還沒有跳脫出歷史的選擇跟還沒有擴大歷史時期的範圍那部長您對於這個部分的看法謝謝委員給我機會回答其實白色恐怖這樣一個名詞在台灣歷史上是一個漫長而非常複雜的時期"},{"start":178.968,"end":179.048,"text":"我還要繼續講"},{"start":204.923,"end":205.524,"text":"人權博物館現在你們的空間範圍有哪一些?"},{"start":226.673,"end":240.425,"text":"我們空間範圍裏面是原來那些當年在這個空間裏面所有的逮捕跟審問我們保持原來的樣子他是一個把過去的文化資產再做轉換的一個場面重新整修過請問一下那我直接問你們綠島"},{"start":243.72,"end":263.465,"text":"原區目前的工程季度在什麼在什麼狀況綠島工程園區還是繼續在進行修復中那您知道省紀部對於綠島園區有提出一些看法嗎有那所以您這個部分怎麼因應呢我們會修正啊好的那如果我的認知沒錯人權博物館是包括這兩個部分喔"},{"start":264.466,"end":278.7,"text":"假設你們已經把綠島你們目前連工程都發不出去那在景美就成為一個重症那本席所提到這個問題請問您該怎麼處理您是他直接就叫白色恐怖園區還是他是人權博物館"},{"start":279.502,"end":296.316,"text":"那個請你給我一點時間回答我有兩點要重新藉這個地方重新要很認真的回答第一白色恐怖受害者包括各種族群外省人本省人原住民都是在白色恐怖中受害只有壓迫者跟被壓迫者跟"},{"start":297.737,"end":305.231,"text":"你還是一直回到白色恐怖嘛那你上個禮拜不是談到每一個台灣的歷史時期除非我們對歷史時期的認知不一樣歷史時期不是只有這幾十年所以我想請教一下那日本人對我們的壓迫"},{"start":311.277,"end":339.782,"text":"您認同嗎?你看看那個聽海勇就是講日本對我們的破壞他怎麼樣殘忍的白色恐怖跟這個博物館我們還有228紀念館他每一個地方都在懷念不同的歷史不好意思部長本席記得上個禮拜也跟您講過您說的話本席經常在聽也有感動但是本席從這半年來一直感覺到您言行不一所以本席這邊直接的建議"},{"start":341.601,"end":351.415,"text":"人權不管不是每一個展都不好但是請你們擴大展覽的概念不要再繼續鎖定在白色恐怖您可以給本席一個promise嗎一個承諾"},{"start":353.548,"end":381.584,"text":"從11月開始或至少明年開始11月在展示的部分可以跳脫這樣一個範圍嗎可以你再給我一點時間我個人那我給你一點時間去對這個展覽展示去做一些整理因為那個人權博物館的法律師因為他是威權時代的那個白色恐怖其實我來之後就有跟人權博物館的館長講我們要多辦一些人權影展包括校園霸凌兩性性別歧視"},{"start":383.385,"end":400.116,"text":"謝謝部長記得您現在所講的話半年以後我們再來檢視好嗎那11月就應該要有一些調整了接下來本席跟您談一下這個文化幣的部分文化幣你們的源起是因為疫情的觸動所以但是"},{"start":403.999,"end":421.697,"text":"我相信你們有調查文化幣大概會取決於一些特定文化跟商家所以第一個部分本期要跟你談城鄉的差距所以在文化幣你們的調查當中呢在2022年這個數據是總共使用的商家有7萬多家但是八成在六都"},{"start":422.915,"end":434.114,"text":"這個比例還有整個商家的數量大概79九點多快八成所以這個議題產生出來的文化差距請問一下部長您這個部分怎麼處理"},{"start":435.171,"end":456.019,"text":"其實委員你講到重點了因為我們的人口還有文化的享用都是集中在六都所以當我們開始發文化幣的時候的確是在這個六都裡面使用率跟引用率最多那在全世界的國家歐洲國家它的使用率更低是因為它的傳播率更少"},{"start":457.2,"end":472.835,"text":"這是別的國家的事啦對可是台灣已經算是理用率跟引用率是非常高的國家是的使用率高那本席這邊要來跟您做一個討論所以我們接下來第一個城鄉差距請您給本席一個很具體的回應"},{"start":473.376,"end":493.873,"text":"因為每一次的質詢你好像都聽得懂但是做出來的事情跟我們都相差十萬八千里所以請你在這個部分能夠給本席很具體的一個回應書面好嗎好可以好接下來您剛才講到文化幣想要向下示範13到15歲但是文化幣就我們的調查還有你們相關的這個數據其實買書的書店出版業有3.38億的消費額占整體消費額的百分之幾乎50"},{"start":500.919,"end":516.551,"text":"那我們也發現使用最多的其實是碩博士的一個年齡層你現在13到15本席在這邊具體的建議請你往上升到22到25請你做一個思考給本席一個最比較具體的回應好嗎好謝謝"},{"start":519.094,"end":545.256,"text":"接下來本席跟您談一下表演藝術跟文化資產的一個結合那我相信您應該看過表演藝術在文化資產的場域有一些結合的case不曉得您有什麼樣的概念要跟本席回應一下嗎我們對台灣的表演藝術的定義很多除了戲劇你知道有什麼樣的例子在台灣目前表演藝術跟文化資產結合嗎"},{"start":546.65,"end":547.617,"text":"本人意思跟文化資產結合"},{"start":550.148,"end":575.143,"text":"你好那因為本席是學表演藝術會比較專注這個部分所以像過去金枝眼社曾經在淡雪的護圍砲台那麼一載京城也曾經有人邀請一些所謂的西方古典音樂的音樂家去那邊演出那這一類場館的結合其實在部會裡面你們的業務都是可以結合的所以善用文化資產的活化讓表演藝術跟文化資產結合"},{"start":576.824,"end":594.12,"text":"所以接下來本期就有個建議這個你們的業務報告裡面有談到原住民的區塊當然你們要建置原住民的一個文化資產的概念但是你們在今年也談到有一些文化活動其實你們過去也辦過幾場那今年是你們標榜的臺灣臺南400年那請問你知道2026是什麼樣子的哪邊的400年嗎"},{"start":603.49,"end":610.694,"text":"臺灣當然是一個南島民族開始的幾千年那是我們最珍貴的最珍貴的資產那如果我們對歷史時期的認知同樣的話2026是臺灣進入大安海時代開始被西方人發現"},{"start":619.358,"end":645.583,"text":"但是西班牙人：發現可能更早：部長我這邊直接講2026是西班牙人來臺400周年你們是不是應該從明年就開始準備一下這件事情讓我們知道2026年臺灣很早就已經要進今年已經要進大航海時期了那2026年也是一個很重要的里程碑最後有關於文化資產文化景觀的這個部分待會我們在交通部要討論文化資產跟鐵道"},{"start":648.356,"end":664.568,"text":"的一個狀況那我知道部裡面現在有鐵道博物館所以鐵道交通網絡你們也應該要關心因為最後我們還是會討論到事權統一的問題所以台灣現在唯一一個煤礦博物館你知道在哪嗎"},{"start":665.543,"end":685.776,"text":"在那個瑞芳那邊對瑞芳地區那本席這邊跟你講一下有一個新平溪煤礦博物館在暑假這段期間大家一直在搶救他為什麼呢因為國土計畫法要施行了這是一個全面性的問題可是衝擊到的是文化資產所以也請您注意到這是一個"},{"start":686.576,"end":714.27,"text":"目前還一直存在的在現地的一個遺址他還不是遺址喔我們還可以繼續讓他活化所以請關注目前鐵道在過往歷史裡面重要的角色包括煤礦包括台灣的許多礦林業等等那我想待會我們會再更深入的討論在交通委員會但是請部裡面注意一下這件事情好嗎會我會把這個納入我們的文化部分"},{"start":715.017,"end":715.078,"text":"林倩綺議員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":71,"blocks":[["林委員倩綺：（9時13分）主席，還有各位立院同仁，謝謝召委，還有今天我們行政單位的各位夥伴們，大家好。我們現在有請李部長。"],["主席：我們有請李部長。"],["李部長遠：委員好。"],["林委員倩綺：部長好。部長，記得上個禮拜在院會質詢的時候，本席提出這句話「只有走不出歷史的人，才會在文化威權中療傷」，請問一下部長，你記得當時給我的回應是什麼嗎？"],["李部長遠：我覺得我們要面對歷史，不要忘記歷史，大家能夠真實地面對我們歷史的傷痛，才能讓我們的仇恨翻頁。"],["林委員倩綺：謝謝。仇恨翻頁，我應該在上個會期也聽到過，您上個禮拜在回應我這句話的時候，時間上可能沒有辦法把這個話記錄進去，其實您只是很簡單地說：「說得很好！」這個禮拜您有一些延伸，所以我們就從您剛才所講的部分繼續下去，我們應該翻頁，往下一個部分開始走了。您剛才講到希望「天天都是文化日，人人都是文化人」，我自己本身覺得現在就已經是了，所以在您講了這句話之後，我也很期待未來我們在這樣子的一個基礎下能夠再往前走，謝謝。","所以今天要來跟您再探討有關於上個禮拜跟這個禮拜跟未來本席會注意的議題，上個禮拜包括剛才部長也有講到，我們面對過去的歷史應該翻頁，在上個禮拜您也講到，全臺灣的文化面其實很多元，所以本席在這邊要來跟您再討論，記得本席上個禮拜提出人權博物館的一些數據，相信您應該是有記得，人權博物館的展……"],["李部長遠：對，我記得。"],["林委員倩綺：有一些數據嘛！我們知道白色恐怖的展至少一半以上、62.5%，然後你們的出版品大概有接近70%都是白色恐怖。您在當時也覺得臺灣的族群多元，展覽在各個歷史的時期都應該被涵蓋，但是本席的查詢，人權博物館在10月分的展出，8個裡面還是有7個跟白色恐怖時期有關，看起來還沒有跳脫出歷史的選擇，也還沒有擴大歷史時期的範圍，部長您對於這個部分的看法？"],["李部長遠：謝謝委員給我機會回答，其實白色恐怖這樣一個名詞，在臺灣歷史上是一個漫長而非常複雜的時期。"],["林委員倩綺：是的，謝謝部長，白色恐怖我們知道有相關的文獻，我們知道它的時期很長，但是不好意思，部長，上個禮拜本席也跟您提醒，難道日本人對我們的壓迫就不是壓迫嗎？"],["李部長遠：當然是啊！"],["林委員倩綺：日本人對閩、客族群，包括原住民都有壓迫，那您對這個部分的看法呢？我們現在討論的是人權博物館的展，歷史課的部分，我想很多人自己都已經做了功課，包括本席，謝謝，那是不是可以請你說明一下在這個展的部分？"],["李部長遠：因為我們人權博物館當初選擇的地址正好就是白色恐怖所發生的地方，所以我們就選擇了比較接近白色恐怖發生的事情作為一個展覽。"],["林委員倩綺：好，謝謝部長。人權博物館現在你們的空間範圍有哪一些？"],["李部長遠：我們空間範圍是原來那些當年在這個空間裡面所有的逮捕跟審問，我們保持原來的樣子。"],["林委員倩綺：它是把過去的文化資產再做轉換的一個場域。"],["李部長遠：重新整修過。"],["林委員倩綺：請問一下，那我直接問，你們綠島園區目前的工程進度在什麼狀況？"],["李部長遠：綠島園區的工程還是繼續在進行修復中。"],["林委員倩綺：那您知道審計部對於綠島園區有提出一些看法嗎？"],["李部長遠：有。"],["林委員倩綺：所以您這個部分怎麼因應呢？"],["李部長遠：我們會修正。"],["林委員倩綺：好的。如果我的認知沒錯，人權博物館是包括這兩個部分？"],["李部長遠：是。"],["林委員倩綺：假設目前你們連綠島的工程都發包不出去，那景美就成為一個重鎮，本席所提到的這個問題，請問您該怎麼處理？是它直接就叫白色恐怖園區，還是它是人權博物館？"],["李部長遠：請你給我一點時間回答，我有兩點要借這個地方重新很認真的回答，第一，白色恐怖受害者包括各種族群……"],["林委員倩綺：可以再30秒嗎？"],["李部長遠：外省人、本省人、原住民都是在白色恐怖中受害，只有壓迫者跟被壓迫者跟……"],["林委員倩綺：您還是一直回到白色恐怖嘛！那您上個禮拜不是談到每一個臺灣的歷史時期，除非我們對歷史時期的認知不一樣……"],["李部長遠：我們每一段……"],["林委員倩綺：歷史時期不是只有這幾十年……"],["李部長遠：我們每一段受害者……"],["林委員倩綺：所以我想請教一下，日本人對我們的壓迫，您認同嗎？"],["李部長遠：你看看「聽海湧」就是講日本人對我們的迫害，他怎麼樣殘忍……"],["林委員倩綺：我在跟你講白色……"],["李部長遠：白色恐怖，我們還有二二八紀念館。"],["林委員倩綺：白色恐怖跟這個博物館。"],["李部長遠：我們還有二二八紀念館，每一個……"],["林委員倩綺：是啊！有二二八紀念館嘛！"],["李部長遠：它每一個地方都在懷念不同的歷史。"],["林委員倩綺：你又扯到二二八紀念館，不好意思，部長，本席記得上個禮拜也跟您講過，您說的話本席經常在聽，也有感動，但是本席從這半年來一直感覺到您言行不一，所以本席這邊直接的建議，人權博物館不是每一個展都不好，但是請你們擴大展覽的概念，不要再繼續鎖定在白色恐怖，您可以給本席一個promise、一個承諾嗎？從11月開始或至少明年開始，11月在展示的部分可以跳脫這樣一個範圍嗎？"],["李部長遠：可以，你再給我一點時間，我個人……"],["林委員倩綺：那我給你一點時間去對於這個展覽、展示去做一些整理好嗎？"],["李部長遠：因為人權博物館的法定是因為它是威權時代的白色恐怖，其實我來之後就有跟人權博物館的館長講，我們要多辦一些人權影展，包括校園霸凌、兩性性別歧視、種族歧視……"],["林委員倩綺：好的，謝謝、謝謝部長。"],["李部長遠：其實我們一直在做。"],["林委員倩綺：記得您現在所講的話，半年以後我們再來檢視，好嗎？"],["李部長遠：好。"],["林委員倩綺：那11月就應該要有一些調整了，OK？"],["李部長遠：好。"],["林委員倩綺：那接下來本席跟您談一下文化幣的部分，文化幣的源起是因為疫情的觸動，我相信你們也有調查，文化幣大概會取決於一些特定文化跟商家，所以第一個部分本席要跟你談城鄉的差距，你們對於文化幣的調查當中，以2022年的數據來說，使用的商家總共有七萬多家，但是有八成集中在六都，占整個商家數的比率大概是百分之七十九點多，快八成，對於這個議題所產生出來的文化差距，請問一下部長對於這個部分怎麼處理？"],["李部長遠：其實委員你講到重點了，因為我們的人口及文化的享用都是集中在六都，所以當初我們開始發文化幣的時候，的確是六都裡面的使用率跟領用率最多，在全世界的國家、在歐洲國家，它的使用率更低是因為它的傳播力更少，我們臺灣……"],["林委員倩綺：那個是別的國家的事啦！"],["李部長遠：對，我們臺灣已經算是領用率跟使用率非常高的國家。"],["林委員倩綺：是的，使用率高，本席這邊要來跟您討論，第一個，有關城鄉差距的部分，請您給本席一個很具體的回應，因為每一次的質詢您好像都聽得懂，但是做出來的事情跟我們都相差十萬八千里，所以請你就這個部分給本席很具體的一個書面回應，好嗎？"],["李部長遠：好，可以。"],["林委員倩綺：接下來，您剛才講到文化幣想要向下試辦13到15歲，但是文化幣就我們的調查以及你們的相關數據，其實買書的，書店、出版業有3.38億的消費額，幾乎占整體消費額的50%，我們也發現使用最多的其實是碩博士的年齡層，您現在是往13到15歲，本席在這邊具體的建議往上升到22到25歲，請你做一個思考，然後給本席比較具體的回應，好嗎？"],["李部長遠：好，謝謝。"],["林委員倩綺：謝謝。接下來本席跟您談一下表演藝術與文化資產的結合，我相信您應該看過表演藝術在文化資產的場域有一些結合的case，不曉得您有什麼樣的概念要跟本席回應一下嗎？"],["李部長遠：我們對臺灣表演藝術的定義很多，除了戲劇……"],["林委員倩綺：您知道有什麼樣的例子，在臺灣目前是表演藝術跟文化資產結合嗎？"],["李部長遠：表演藝術跟文化資產結合？"],["林委員倩綺：好，沒有關係，因為本席是學表演藝術，會比較專注於這個部分，像過去金枝演社曾經在淡水的滬尾礮臺，億載金城也曾經有邀請一些所謂西方古典音樂的音樂家去那邊演出，這一類場館的結合，其實在部會裡面你們的業務都是可以結合的，所以應善用文化資產的活化，讓表演藝術跟文化資產結合。","接下來本席就有個建議，你們的業務報告裡面也有談到原住民的區塊，你們要建置原住民文化資產的概念，你們今年也談到有一些文化活動，其實你們過去也辦過幾場，今年是你們標榜的臺南400年，請問你知道2026是哪邊的400年嗎？如果以這樣一個概念來說。"],["李部長遠：臺灣當然是一個南島民族開始的，有幾千年了，都是我們最珍貴的資產，2026是一個……"],["林委員倩綺：是的，如果我們對歷史時期的認知同樣的話……"],["李部長遠：我覺得每個階段……"],["林委員倩綺：2026是……"],["李部長遠：2026就是臺灣進入大航海時代，開始被西方人發現，但是西方人……"],["林委員倩綺：發現可能是更早啦，部長，我這邊直接講，2026是西班牙人來臺400週年，你們是不是應該從明年就開始準備一下這件事情？我們知道2026年，臺灣很早就已經躍進，今年已經躍進大航海時期了，2026年也是一個很重要的里程碑。","最後，有關於文化資產、文化景觀的部分，待會我們要跟交通部討論文化資產跟鐵道的狀況，我知道部裡面現在有鐵道博物館，所以鐵道交通網絡你們也應該要關心，因為最後我們還是會討論到事權統一的問題。部長，臺灣現在唯一一個煤礦博物館，您知道在哪嗎？"],["李部長遠：在瑞芳那邊。"],["林委員倩綺：對，瑞芳地區，本席在這邊跟你講一下，有一個新平溪煤礦博物館，在暑假這段期間，大家一直在搶救它，為什麼呢？因為國土計畫法要施行了，這是一個全面性的問題，可是衝擊到的是文化資產，所以也請您注意到，這是目前還一直存在的、在現地的一個遺址，它也不是遺址，我們還可以繼續讓它活化，所以請關注目前鐵道在過往歷史裡面的重要角色，包括煤礦，包括臺灣的許多礦、林業等等，我想待會我們在交通委員會還會再更深入討論，但是請部裡面注意一下這件事情，好嗎？"],["李部長遠：會，我會把這個納入我們的文化部分。"],["林委員倩綺：好，謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝林倩綺委員的質詢，部長請回。"],["李部長遠：謝謝。"],["主席：接下來有請洪孟楷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":382,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-5","speakers":["萬美玲","林倩綺","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葉元之","陳培瑜","林宜瑾","羅廷瑋","陳秀寳","葛如鈞","張雅琳","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","吳春城","范雲","陳菁徽","楊瓊瓔","徐富癸","郭國文","王鴻薇","陳亭妃","林楚茵","何欣純","蔡易餘","邱志偉","賴惠員","涂權吉","高金素梅"],"page_start":309,"meetingDate":["2024-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1138901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部部長李遠列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138901_00005"}}}