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00:00:37,536\n剛才聽取你的報告中間有幾個很重要的項目今天聽到你把它點出來了我覺得這個對所有的國人來講是一個很重要的說明但在這個前提下我也幫你再做一點補充您剛剛特別在這個灰色地帶的戰術因為有很多人關心所謂的封鎖您剛剛提到了就是說這是一個戰爭行為其實是\n\n3\n00:00:40,202 --> 00:01:07,584\n不是一個單一對台而且它影響到整個國際的金融、能源、航運尤其是台灣海峽周遭因此剛才講的灰色區塊的戰術行動它是一種消耗戰那麼除了選項做封鎖以外就是Blockade以外它還有一個叫CursiveQuarantine就是威懾性的臨檢那這個就是屬於執法行為它把範圍就跟NarrowDown\n\n4\n00:01:08,665 --> 00:01:20,219\n這個東西我們是希望國內除了灰色地帶的軍事或者是軍事行動消耗戰以外另外有關在您的專家就在法律範圍的這個\n\n5\n00:01:22,062 --> 00:01:44,230\n我們講的不是灰色地帶就是灰色區塊的國際法、海洋法、武裝衝突法這一段我希望未來在敘述的時候論述的時候讓國內了解一個封鎖不是單獨對台灣是對所有相關國家它造成的金融、國際的保險、物價的上漲那是一個非常大的衝擊我不認為中共在現階段會實施這個手段\n\n6\n00:01:46,491 --> 00:02:13,729\n那麼這次誠如您講的他是drill他不是exercise他只是單向的兵力配置顯示我到位並沒有演練出封鎖的行為那下面呢我就給您看這張我們國軍啊我想了解一下我們通知跟電子次長跟情報次長就是我們除了我們軍用的本身的專用的衛星頻道以外\n\n7\n00:02:14,795 --> 00:02:15,817\n在民用衛星裡面\n\n8\n00:02:19,366 --> 00:02:48,324\n我們國軍能夠分享到多少頻道這個可靠度在戰時尤其是機動台的部分因為這個是備援模式因為我們除了有機動的微波我們有機動台即使中華電信不能提供我們有機動台但數量會不夠但中華另外就是OneWeb速發部簽的這個對我們國軍頻寬跟我們使用到什麼位階\n\n9\n00:02:51,485 --> 00:03:09,493\n這個聯絡您這邊能不能說明一下各位我想現在OneWeb現在的品官就國軍的作戰需求來講現在是還到現在是不夠的我瞭解這個是確定當然要看OneWeb未來的發展\n\n10\n00:03:12,295 --> 00:03:18,519\n這張圖特別強調了一個是海欄的圖跟世界連接圖第二個是海上交通線就是剛剛講我們要確保我們的航運暢通因為這下面顯示了海欄的通訊量它是這個衛星通訊的\n\n11\n00:03:41,138 --> 00:04:05,452\n以現在OneWeb的速度來看是它的4000倍所以以衛星通信是不夠的所以海欖的可靠度維修那麼跟不同的海欖公司簽約那中華電信有簽約我們速發部應該也能夠掌握要能夠掌握海欖修復船它多久能夠到在這個修復過程中間我們的備援方案\n\n12\n00:04:06,714 --> 00:04:19,787\n透過第三地地面站再衛星跨接到海南再把信號回送這是一個選擇方案我希望我們國軍在這個備案的研究上面能夠多做一點琢磨\n\n13\n00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:45,926\n選項、方案,而不是只靠一項。」委員報告事實上已經有相關的,但是我想我不適合在公開的這個場合來說明這個我們的相關的一個備援的一個方法。是,我了解。是不是也請我們速發部的同仁能夠幫忙說明一下。請看這張圖,這個是我們的,部長您請回。這個是我們連接外島的海嵐。\n\n14\n00:04:53,854 --> 00:05:16,342\n那麼因為兩年前馬祖海欄那個事件給我們一個很大的一個教訓就是經驗也累積也知道如果沒有及時的修復能力那這個就等於沒有手機了這個smartphone也沒有了甚至你的whatsapp你的line都不能通了那甚至影響最大的如果是通知到國際海欄的話\n\n15\n00:05:18,183 --> 00:05:31,056\n等於說我們及時的外匯存底的調撥就產生問題了那這個是根據我們公家的資料我改版重新經過校正把它的顯示出來的那這就是我們現在\n\n16\n00:05:32,759 --> 00:05:58,289\n各個海欄連接處那麼海欄在陸上連接台的那個地方的安全可能在未來不管是寶二或者是由其他的民防單位這個要有演練因為脆弱度不僅只於上岸或者是走地下真正的那個控制中心是要很重要的我們再看這個\n\n17\n00:06:00,657 --> 00:06:26,294\n這張圖是跟經濟部有關的就是所有西岸的基礎建設因此海灘不容易變成兩棲登陸因此美方的致富就是說是將來可能就是把你的通訊、斷纜、通訊那中華電信跟我們經濟部都能夠掌握我們的發電、網路配電現在還有一個超高壓配電所的安危也是一個重要的防護的\n\n18\n00:06:30,578 --> 00:06:44,179\n跟我們的電信、衛星跟微波這三個是相互支援那必須有一個整合計劃就是有一個最糟糕的情況發生的話有沒有辦法透過第三國第三地\n\n19\n00:06:45,799 --> 00:07:00,899\n然後衛星第三地再經過海欄再送回來這個我想在將來您在國際上面跟合作對象談判的時候要強化就像原來的這個OneWeb是在泰國在日本在關島\n\n20\n00:07:02,386 --> 00:07:19,086\n那麼我們希望能夠未來如果持續有希望在台灣能夠設地面戰能夠自己掌控那這個圖看到右邊的那張圖其實就是我們的電網的脆弱度的超高壓那我們的政府原來是說五年\n\n21\n00:07:20,047 --> 00:07:47,446\n十年五千億現在總統是說要加快要電網的韌性因為我們不希望並不是發電設施並不是能源中斷而跳電而是電網的配電超高壓345千伏161千伏你兩個站一跳三分之一個台灣就沒電了那這個不是兩天三天修復的好的所以這個部分又影響了我們的通訊所以不管是能源、海纜、衛星\n\n22\n00:07:50,634 --> 00:08:10,282\n電輸送、配電,這個都是整合在一起當然這個不是您這個範疇我剛剛主要是提到的衛星通訊二胡戰爭期間,烏克蘭為維持網路暢通他的方法主要是節點有備份他轉移關鍵基礎設施到境外或第三地那用非同步軌道,中軌、低軌的衛星\n\n23\n00:08:14,023 --> 00:08:38,018\n開放全國用戶漫遊當然STARLINK給他很大的服務他有8萬4千個台如果我們才7千個點這個不能比可是美國人替他付錢但是希望未來軍民都能夠手機能暢通維持軍政體系緊急服務對外跟國際的聲音能夠暢通鞏固民心\n\n24\n00:08:39,670 --> 00:09:08,884\n在今年的國慶我們總統也強調了團結台灣、共援夢想演說中多次強調的韌性提升國家整體的國防、民生、災防、民主四大韌性這個東西雖然只是成立了跨部會的委員會可是因為我還是要強調因為我們目前還沒有一個完整的國家安全戰略必須用國家安全戰略做整合性的思考\n\n25\n00:09:10,489 --> 00:09:29,832\n我們去問的不是你的強而是最脆弱點這個部會的脆弱點不能解決那那個部會的強點並不能補足因此你看我們最後用一張圖這是一個結構性的細微圖它的思維包括糧食、醫療、法律\n\n26\n00:09:31,069 --> 00:09:52,048\n供應鏈、經濟、能源、電力、石油、天然氣、儲備在這個中間的問題必須要完全解決了才會去推外圍的軍事行動所以這個思維是做給我們做建設國家安全戰略跨部會協調所以不管是能源、經濟、通訊\n\n27\n00:09:55,653 --> 00:10:13,359\n醫療、整個社會福利再加上國防的支撐這是一個整體的思考我們希望我們的政府在任內要把國家安全辦理整合進我們所有的部會橫向的協調以上提供做參考謝謝你部長我再請您做一個指導\n\n28\n00:10:23,935 --> 00:10:46,409\n有關國家安全戰略把他整合進整合國防戰略跟社會韌性我特別強調美國的四年期國防總檢2017年已經終止了因為他覺得他裡面由下向上產生的很多的需求跟上向下的政策不能同步掉因為我們明年可能要出QDR了\n\n29\n00:10:47,009 --> 00:11:11,202\n是不是請部長在這個地方稍微琢磨一下也就是國防戰略的指導這個章節必須要內容要充實一下因為沒有一個明確的指導因為上游沒有國家安全戰略那美國從國家安全戰略到國防戰略到國防軍事戰略然後再到作戰區的作戰計劃我們現在是QDR下面在兩年一本的國防報告書\n\n30\n00:11:12,202 --> 00:11:39,656\n後面就是我們的軍事作戰計畫我們希望這個政策指導要有的延貫性有持續性那水平橫向的聯繫要能夠要徹底的溝通這點請部長做一點回應當然我在國安會任職的時候我有充分的體會到就是說我們要擬定一個非常具體的一個國家安全戰略是在我\n\n31\n00:11:41,416 --> 00:12:05,472\n一直在我的思考當中但其實它有點不太容易的原因是因為我們國家處境的特殊性我講一個很簡單的例子我們跟台美之間我們就完全沒有辦法公開所以在國家安全戰略就是說我們跟它之間的這個交流基於台美之間的默契我們是沒有辦法的我們沒有辦法寫成一部我們怎麼樣來一個\n\n32\n00:12:09,395 --> 00:12:33,451\n一個...就是說日本他發現一個國家他不會去顧慮到說什麼跟什麼他跟美國之間的這個那我們就要顧慮到很多我們必須在這個所謂的這個印太區域國家的這個形成的協同嚇阻的這樣的一個部分就我們就必須要有很多隱晦那我們也不能沒有沒有辦法明白這樣所以\n\n33\n00:12:34,742 --> 00:12:45,816\n我覺得我們要試圖嘗試但是我個人是覺得還蠻困難的法務部長您可以這樣子有機密版有公開版\n\n34\n00:12:46,345 --> 00:13:08,107\n那對國人來講還是要有一個簡述的公開的...我也看過委員的意見就是說有公開感的機密版但是我很怕那個機密版就成為大家都想看的那個版那你就什麼事情越機密呢那個就...因為這個是橫向跨部會協調一個重要的指標啦參考提供您參考好謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n530\t1791\t有請國防部顧部長顧部長\n11862\t37536\t剛才聽取你的報告中間有幾個很重要的項目今天聽到你把它點出來了我覺得這個對所有的國人來講是一個很重要的說明但在這個前提下我也幫你再做一點補充您剛剛特別在這個灰色地帶的戰術因為有很多人關心所謂的封鎖您剛剛提到了就是說這是一個戰爭行為其實是\n40202\t67584\t不是一個單一對台而且它影響到整個國際的金融、能源、航運尤其是台灣海峽周遭因此剛才講的灰色區塊的戰術行動它是一種消耗戰那麼除了選項做封鎖以外就是Blockade以外它還有一個叫Cursive Quarantine就是威懾性的臨檢那這個就是屬於執法行為它把範圍就跟Narrow Down\n68665\t80219\t這個東西我們是希望國內除了灰色地帶的軍事或者是軍事行動消耗戰以外另外有關在您的專家就在法律範圍的這個\n82062\t104230\t我們講的不是灰色地帶就是灰色區塊的國際法、海洋法、武裝衝突法這一段我希望未來在敘述的時候論述的時候讓國內了解一個封鎖不是單獨對台灣是對所有相關國家它造成的金融、國際的保險、物價的上漲那是一個非常大的衝擊我不認為中共在現階段會實施這個手段\n106491\t133729\t那麼這次誠如您講的他是drill他不是exercise他只是單向的兵力配置顯示我到位並沒有演練出封鎖的行為那下面呢我就給您看這張我們國軍啊我想了解一下我們通知跟電子次長跟情報次長就是我們除了我們軍用的本身的專用的衛星頻道以外\n134795\t135817\t在民用衛星 裡面\n139366\t168324\t我們國軍能夠分享到多少頻道這個可靠度在戰時尤其是機動台的部分因為這個是備援模式因為我們除了有機動的微波我們有機動台即使中華電信不能提供我們有機動台但數量會不夠但中華另外就是OneWeb速發部簽的這個對我們國軍頻寬跟我們使用到什麼位階\n171485\t189493\t這個聯絡您這邊能不能說明一下各位我想現在OneWeb現在的品官就國軍的作戰需求來講現在是還到現在是不夠的我瞭解這個是確定當然要看OneWeb未來的發展\n192295\t198519\t這張圖特別強調了一個是海欄的圖跟世界連接圖第二個是海上交通線就是剛剛講我們要確保我們的航運暢通因為這下面顯示了海欄的通訊量它是這個衛星通訊的\n221138\t245452\t以現在OneWeb的速度來看是它的4000倍所以以衛星通信是不夠的所以海欖的可靠度維修那麼跟不同的海欖公司簽約那中華電信有簽約我們速發部應該也能夠掌握要能夠掌握海欖修復船它多久能夠到在這個修復過程中間我們的備援方案\n246714\t259787\t透過第三地地面站再衛星跨接到海南再把信號回送這是一個選擇方案我希望我們國軍在這個備案的研究上面能夠多做一點琢磨\n263360\t285926\t選項、方案,而不是只靠一項。」委員報告事實上已經有相關的,但是我想我不適合在公開的這個場合來說明這個我們的相關的一個備援的一個方法。是,我了解。是不是也請我們速發部的同仁能夠幫忙說明一下。請看這張圖,這個是我們的,部長您請回。這個是我們連接外島的海嵐。\n293854\t316342\t那麼因為兩年前馬祖海欄那個事件給我們一個很大的一個教訓就是經驗也累積也知道如果沒有及時的修復能力那這個就等於沒有手機了這個smartphone也沒有了甚至你的whatsapp你的line都不能通了那甚至影響最大的如果是通知到國際海欄的話\n318183\t331056\t等於說我們及時的外匯存底的調撥就產生問題了那這個是根據我們公家的資料我改版重新經過校正把它的顯示出來的那這就是我們現在\n332759\t358289\t各個海欄連接處那麼海欄在陸上連接台的那個地方的安全可能在未來不管是寶二或者是由其他的民防單位這個要有演練因為脆弱度不僅只於上岸或者是走地下真正的那個控制中心是要很重要的我們再看這個\n360657\t386294\t這張圖是跟經濟部有關的就是所有西岸的基礎建設因此海灘不容易變成兩棲登陸因此美方的致富就是說是將來可能就是把你的通訊、斷纜、通訊那中華電信跟我們經濟部都能夠掌握我們的發電、網路配電現在還有一個超高壓配電所的安危也是一個重要的防護的\n390578\t404179\t跟我們的電信、衛星跟微波這三個是相互支援那必須有一個整合計劃就是有一個最糟糕的情況發生的話有沒有辦法透過第三國第三地\n405799\t420899\t然後衛星第三地再經過海欄再送回來這個我想在將來您在國際上面跟合作對象談判的時候要強化就像原來的這個OneWeb是在泰國在日本在關島\n422386\t439086\t那麼我們希望能夠未來如果持續有希望在台灣能夠設地面戰能夠自己掌控那這個圖看到右邊的那張圖其實就是我們的電網的脆弱度的超高壓那我們的政府原來是說五年\n440047\t467446\t十年五千億現在總統是說要加快要電網的韌性因為我們不希望並不是發電設施並不是能源中斷而跳電而是電網的配電超高壓345千伏161千伏你兩個站一跳三分之一個台灣就沒電了那這個不是兩天三天修復的好的所以這個部分又影響了我們的通訊所以不管是能源、海纜、衛星\n470634\t490282\t電輸送、配電,這個都是整合在一起當然這個不是您這個範疇我剛剛主要是提到的衛星通訊二胡戰爭期間,烏克蘭為維持網路暢通他的方法主要是節點有備份他轉移關鍵基礎設施到境外或第三地那用非同步軌道,中軌、低軌的衛星\n494023\t518018\t開放全國用戶漫遊當然STARLINK給他很大的服務他有8萬4千個台如果我們才7千個點這個不能比可是美國人替他付錢但是希望未來軍民都能夠手機能暢通維持軍政體系緊急服務對外跟國際的聲音能夠暢通鞏固民心\n519670\t548884\t在今年的國慶我們總統也強調了團結台灣、共援夢想演說中多次強調的韌性提升國家整體的國防、民生、災防、民主四大韌性這個東西雖然只是成立了跨部會的委員會可是因為我還是要強調因為我們目前還沒有一個完整的國家安全戰略必須用國家安全戰略做整合性的思考\n550489\t569832\t我們去問的不是你的強而是最脆弱點這個部會的脆弱點不能解決那那個部會的強點並不能補足因此你看我們最後用一張圖這是一個結構性的細微圖它的思維包括糧食、醫療、法律\n571069\t592048\t供應鏈、經濟、能源、電力、石油、天然氣、儲備在這個中間的問題必須要完全解決了才會去推外圍的軍事行動所以這個思維是做給我們做建設國家安全戰略跨部會協調所以不管是能源、經濟、通訊\n595653\t613359\t醫療、整個社會福利再加上國防的支撐這是一個整體的思考我們希望我們的政府在任內要把國家安全辦理整合進我們所有的部會橫向的協調以上提供做參考謝謝你部長我再請您做一個指導\n623935\t646409\t有關國家安全戰略把他整合進整合國防戰略跟社會韌性我特別強調美國的四年期國防總檢2017年已經終止了因為他覺得他裡面由下向上產生的很多的需求跟上向下的政策不能同步掉因為我們明年可能要出QDR了\n647009\t671202\t是不是請部長在這個地方稍微琢磨一下也就是國防戰略的指導這個章節必須要內容要充實一下因為沒有一個明確的指導因為上游沒有國家安全戰略那美國從國家安全戰略到國防戰略到國防軍事戰略然後再到作戰區的作戰計劃我們現在是QDR下面在兩年一本的國防報告書\n672202\t699656\t後面就是我們的軍事作戰計畫我們希望這個政策指導要有的延貫性有持續性那水平橫向的聯繫要能夠要徹底的溝通這點請部長做一點回應當然我在國安會任職的時候我有充分的體會到就是說我們要擬定一個非常具體的一個國家安全戰略是在我\n701416\t725472\t一直在我的思考當中但其實它有點不太容易的原因是因為我們國家處境的特殊性我講一個很簡單的例子我們跟台美之間我們就完全沒有辦法公開所以在國家安全戰略就是說我們跟它之間的這個交流基於台美之間的默契我們是沒有辦法的我們沒有辦法寫成一部我們怎麼樣來一個\n729395\t753451\t一個...就是說日本他發現一個國家他不會去顧慮到說什麼跟什麼他跟美國之間的這個那我們就要顧慮到很多我們必須在這個所謂的這個印太區域國家的這個形成的協同嚇阻的這樣的一個部分就我們就必須要有很多隱晦那我們也不能沒有沒有辦法明白這樣所以\n754742\t765816\t我覺得我們要試圖嘗試但是我個人是覺得還蠻困難的法務部長您可以這樣子有機密版有公開版\n766345\t788107\t那對國人來講還是要有一個簡述的公開的...我也看過委員的意見就是說有公開感的機密版但是我很怕那個機密版就成為大家都想看的那個版那你就什麼事情越機密呢那個就...因為這個是橫向跨部會協調一個重要的指標啦 參考提供您參考好 謝謝部長\n","txt":"有請國防部顧部長顧部長\n剛才聽取你的報告中間有幾個很重要的項目今天聽到你把它點出來了我覺得這個對所有的國人來講是一個很重要的說明但在這個前提下我也幫你再做一點補充您剛剛特別在這個灰色地帶的戰術因為有很多人關心所謂的封鎖您剛剛提到了就是說這是一個戰爭行為其實是\n不是一個單一對台而且它影響到整個國際的金融、能源、航運尤其是台灣海峽周遭因此剛才講的灰色區塊的戰術行動它是一種消耗戰那麼除了選項做封鎖以外就是Blockade以外它還有一個叫Cursive Quarantine就是威懾性的臨檢那這個就是屬於執法行為它把範圍就跟Narrow Down\n這個東西我們是希望國內除了灰色地帶的軍事或者是軍事行動消耗戰以外另外有關在您的專家就在法律範圍的這個\n我們講的不是灰色地帶就是灰色區塊的國際法、海洋法、武裝衝突法這一段我希望未來在敘述的時候論述的時候讓國內了解一個封鎖不是單獨對台灣是對所有相關國家它造成的金融、國際的保險、物價的上漲那是一個非常大的衝擊我不認為中共在現階段會實施這個手段\n那麼這次誠如您講的他是drill他不是exercise他只是單向的兵力配置顯示我到位並沒有演練出封鎖的行為那下面呢我就給您看這張我們國軍啊我想了解一下我們通知跟電子次長跟情報次長就是我們除了我們軍用的本身的專用的衛星頻道以外\n在民用衛星 裡面\n我們國軍能夠分享到多少頻道這個可靠度在戰時尤其是機動台的部分因為這個是備援模式因為我們除了有機動的微波我們有機動台即使中華電信不能提供我們有機動台但數量會不夠但中華另外就是OneWeb速發部簽的這個對我們國軍頻寬跟我們使用到什麼位階\n這個聯絡您這邊能不能說明一下各位我想現在OneWeb現在的品官就國軍的作戰需求來講現在是還到現在是不夠的我瞭解這個是確定當然要看OneWeb未來的發展\n這張圖特別強調了一個是海欄的圖跟世界連接圖第二個是海上交通線就是剛剛講我們要確保我們的航運暢通因為這下面顯示了海欄的通訊量它是這個衛星通訊的\n以現在OneWeb的速度來看是它的4000倍所以以衛星通信是不夠的所以海欖的可靠度維修那麼跟不同的海欖公司簽約那中華電信有簽約我們速發部應該也能夠掌握要能夠掌握海欖修復船它多久能夠到在這個修復過程中間我們的備援方案\n透過第三地地面站再衛星跨接到海南再把信號回送這是一個選擇方案我希望我們國軍在這個備案的研究上面能夠多做一點琢磨\n選項、方案,而不是只靠一項。」委員報告事實上已經有相關的,但是我想我不適合在公開的這個場合來說明這個我們的相關的一個備援的一個方法。是,我了解。是不是也請我們速發部的同仁能夠幫忙說明一下。請看這張圖,這個是我們的,部長您請回。這個是我們連接外島的海嵐。\n那麼因為兩年前馬祖海欄那個事件給我們一個很大的一個教訓就是經驗也累積也知道如果沒有及時的修復能力那這個就等於沒有手機了這個smartphone也沒有了甚至你的whatsapp你的line都不能通了那甚至影響最大的如果是通知到國際海欄的話\n等於說我們及時的外匯存底的調撥就產生問題了那這個是根據我們公家的資料我改版重新經過校正把它的顯示出來的那這就是我們現在\n各個海欄連接處那麼海欄在陸上連接台的那個地方的安全可能在未來不管是寶二或者是由其他的民防單位這個要有演練因為脆弱度不僅只於上岸或者是走地下真正的那個控制中心是要很重要的我們再看這個\n這張圖是跟經濟部有關的就是所有西岸的基礎建設因此海灘不容易變成兩棲登陸因此美方的致富就是說是將來可能就是把你的通訊、斷纜、通訊那中華電信跟我們經濟部都能夠掌握我們的發電、網路配電現在還有一個超高壓配電所的安危也是一個重要的防護的\n跟我們的電信、衛星跟微波這三個是相互支援那必須有一個整合計劃就是有一個最糟糕的情況發生的話有沒有辦法透過第三國第三地\n然後衛星第三地再經過海欄再送回來這個我想在將來您在國際上面跟合作對象談判的時候要強化就像原來的這個OneWeb是在泰國在日本在關島\n那麼我們希望能夠未來如果持續有希望在台灣能夠設地面戰能夠自己掌控那這個圖看到右邊的那張圖其實就是我們的電網的脆弱度的超高壓那我們的政府原來是說五年\n十年五千億現在總統是說要加快要電網的韌性因為我們不希望並不是發電設施並不是能源中斷而跳電而是電網的配電超高壓345千伏161千伏你兩個站一跳三分之一個台灣就沒電了那這個不是兩天三天修復的好的所以這個部分又影響了我們的通訊所以不管是能源、海纜、衛星\n電輸送、配電,這個都是整合在一起當然這個不是您這個範疇我剛剛主要是提到的衛星通訊二胡戰爭期間,烏克蘭為維持網路暢通他的方法主要是節點有備份他轉移關鍵基礎設施到境外或第三地那用非同步軌道,中軌、低軌的衛星\n開放全國用戶漫遊當然STARLINK給他很大的服務他有8萬4千個台如果我們才7千個點這個不能比可是美國人替他付錢但是希望未來軍民都能夠手機能暢通維持軍政體系緊急服務對外跟國際的聲音能夠暢通鞏固民心\n在今年的國慶我們總統也強調了團結台灣、共援夢想演說中多次強調的韌性提升國家整體的國防、民生、災防、民主四大韌性這個東西雖然只是成立了跨部會的委員會可是因為我還是要強調因為我們目前還沒有一個完整的國家安全戰略必須用國家安全戰略做整合性的思考\n我們去問的不是你的強而是最脆弱點這個部會的脆弱點不能解決那那個部會的強點並不能補足因此你看我們最後用一張圖這是一個結構性的細微圖它的思維包括糧食、醫療、法律\n供應鏈、經濟、能源、電力、石油、天然氣、儲備在這個中間的問題必須要完全解決了才會去推外圍的軍事行動所以這個思維是做給我們做建設國家安全戰略跨部會協調所以不管是能源、經濟、通訊\n醫療、整個社會福利再加上國防的支撐這是一個整體的思考我們希望我們的政府在任內要把國家安全辦理整合進我們所有的部會橫向的協調以上提供做參考謝謝你部長我再請您做一個指導\n有關國家安全戰略把他整合進整合國防戰略跟社會韌性我特別強調美國的四年期國防總檢2017年已經終止了因為他覺得他裡面由下向上產生的很多的需求跟上向下的政策不能同步掉因為我們明年可能要出QDR了\n是不是請部長在這個地方稍微琢磨一下也就是國防戰略的指導這個章節必須要內容要充實一下因為沒有一個明確的指導因為上游沒有國家安全戰略那美國從國家安全戰略到國防戰略到國防軍事戰略然後再到作戰區的作戰計劃我們現在是QDR下面在兩年一本的國防報告書\n後面就是我們的軍事作戰計畫我們希望這個政策指導要有的延貫性有持續性那水平橫向的聯繫要能夠要徹底的溝通這點請部長做一點回應當然我在國安會任職的時候我有充分的體會到就是說我們要擬定一個非常具體的一個國家安全戰略是在我\n一直在我的思考當中但其實它有點不太容易的原因是因為我們國家處境的特殊性我講一個很簡單的例子我們跟台美之間我們就完全沒有辦法公開所以在國家安全戰略就是說我們跟它之間的這個交流基於台美之間的默契我們是沒有辦法的我們沒有辦法寫成一部我們怎麼樣來一個\n一個...就是說日本他發現一個國家他不會去顧慮到說什麼跟什麼他跟美國之間的這個那我們就要顧慮到很多我們必須在這個所謂的這個印太區域國家的這個形成的協同嚇阻的這樣的一個部分就我們就必須要有很多隱晦那我們也不能沒有沒有辦法明白這樣所以\n我覺得我們要試圖嘗試但是我個人是覺得還蠻困難的法務部長您可以這樣子有機密版有公開版\n那對國人來講還是要有一個簡述的公開的...我也看過委員的意見就是說有公開感的機密版但是我很怕那個機密版就成為大家都想看的那個版那你就什麼事情越機密呢那個就...因為這個是橫向跨部會協調一個重要的指標啦 參考提供您參考好 謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.530 --> 00:01.791\n有請國防部顧部長顧部長\n\n00:11.862 --> 00:37.536\n剛才聽取你的報告中間有幾個很重要的項目今天聽到你把它點出來了我覺得這個對所有的國人來講是一個很重要的說明但在這個前提下我也幫你再做一點補充您剛剛特別在這個灰色地帶的戰術因為有很多人關心所謂的封鎖您剛剛提到了就是說這是一個戰爭行為其實是\n\n00:40.202 --> 01:07.584\n不是一個單一對台而且它影響到整個國際的金融、能源、航運尤其是台灣海峽周遭因此剛才講的灰色區塊的戰術行動它是一種消耗戰那麼除了選項做封鎖以外就是Blockade以外它還有一個叫CursiveQuarantine就是威懾性的臨檢那這個就是屬於執法行為它把範圍就跟NarrowDown\n\n01:08.665 --> 01:20.219\n這個東西我們是希望國內除了灰色地帶的軍事或者是軍事行動消耗戰以外另外有關在您的專家就在法律範圍的這個\n\n01:22.062 --> 01:44.230\n我們講的不是灰色地帶就是灰色區塊的國際法、海洋法、武裝衝突法這一段我希望未來在敘述的時候論述的時候讓國內了解一個封鎖不是單獨對台灣是對所有相關國家它造成的金融、國際的保險、物價的上漲那是一個非常大的衝擊我不認為中共在現階段會實施這個手段\n\n01:46.491 --> 02:13.729\n那麼這次誠如您講的他是drill他不是exercise他只是單向的兵力配置顯示我到位並沒有演練出封鎖的行為那下面呢我就給您看這張我們國軍啊我想了解一下我們通知跟電子次長跟情報次長就是我們除了我們軍用的本身的專用的衛星頻道以外\n\n02:14.795 --> 02:15.817\n在民用衛星裡面\n\n02:19.366 --> 02:48.324\n我們國軍能夠分享到多少頻道這個可靠度在戰時尤其是機動台的部分因為這個是備援模式因為我們除了有機動的微波我們有機動台即使中華電信不能提供我們有機動台但數量會不夠但中華另外就是OneWeb速發部簽的這個對我們國軍頻寬跟我們使用到什麼位階\n\n02:51.485 --> 03:09.493\n這個聯絡您這邊能不能說明一下各位我想現在OneWeb現在的品官就國軍的作戰需求來講現在是還到現在是不夠的我瞭解這個是確定當然要看OneWeb未來的發展\n\n03:12.295 --> 03:18.519\n這張圖特別強調了一個是海欄的圖跟世界連接圖第二個是海上交通線就是剛剛講我們要確保我們的航運暢通因為這下面顯示了海欄的通訊量它是這個衛星通訊的\n\n03:41.138 --> 04:05.452\n以現在OneWeb的速度來看是它的4000倍所以以衛星通信是不夠的所以海欖的可靠度維修那麼跟不同的海欖公司簽約那中華電信有簽約我們速發部應該也能夠掌握要能夠掌握海欖修復船它多久能夠到在這個修復過程中間我們的備援方案\n\n04:06.714 --> 04:19.787\n透過第三地地面站再衛星跨接到海南再把信號回送這是一個選擇方案我希望我們國軍在這個備案的研究上面能夠多做一點琢磨\n\n04:23.360 --> 04:45.926\n選項、方案,而不是只靠一項。」委員報告事實上已經有相關的,但是我想我不適合在公開的這個場合來說明這個我們的相關的一個備援的一個方法。是,我了解。是不是也請我們速發部的同仁能夠幫忙說明一下。請看這張圖,這個是我們的,部長您請回。這個是我們連接外島的海嵐。\n\n04:53.854 --> 05:16.342\n那麼因為兩年前馬祖海欄那個事件給我們一個很大的一個教訓就是經驗也累積也知道如果沒有及時的修復能力那這個就等於沒有手機了這個smartphone也沒有了甚至你的whatsapp你的line都不能通了那甚至影響最大的如果是通知到國際海欄的話\n\n05:18.183 --> 05:31.056\n等於說我們及時的外匯存底的調撥就產生問題了那這個是根據我們公家的資料我改版重新經過校正把它的顯示出來的那這就是我們現在\n\n05:32.759 --> 05:58.289\n各個海欄連接處那麼海欄在陸上連接台的那個地方的安全可能在未來不管是寶二或者是由其他的民防單位這個要有演練因為脆弱度不僅只於上岸或者是走地下真正的那個控制中心是要很重要的我們再看這個\n\n06:00.657 --> 06:26.294\n這張圖是跟經濟部有關的就是所有西岸的基礎建設因此海灘不容易變成兩棲登陸因此美方的致富就是說是將來可能就是把你的通訊、斷纜、通訊那中華電信跟我們經濟部都能夠掌握我們的發電、網路配電現在還有一個超高壓配電所的安危也是一個重要的防護的\n\n06:30.578 --> 06:44.179\n跟我們的電信、衛星跟微波這三個是相互支援那必須有一個整合計劃就是有一個最糟糕的情況發生的話有沒有辦法透過第三國第三地\n\n06:45.799 --> 07:00.899\n然後衛星第三地再經過海欄再送回來這個我想在將來您在國際上面跟合作對象談判的時候要強化就像原來的這個OneWeb是在泰國在日本在關島\n\n07:02.386 --> 07:19.086\n那麼我們希望能夠未來如果持續有希望在台灣能夠設地面戰能夠自己掌控那這個圖看到右邊的那張圖其實就是我們的電網的脆弱度的超高壓那我們的政府原來是說五年\n\n07:20.047 --> 07:47.446\n十年五千億現在總統是說要加快要電網的韌性因為我們不希望並不是發電設施並不是能源中斷而跳電而是電網的配電超高壓345千伏161千伏你兩個站一跳三分之一個台灣就沒電了那這個不是兩天三天修復的好的所以這個部分又影響了我們的通訊所以不管是能源、海纜、衛星\n\n07:50.634 --> 08:10.282\n電輸送、配電,這個都是整合在一起當然這個不是您這個範疇我剛剛主要是提到的衛星通訊二胡戰爭期間,烏克蘭為維持網路暢通他的方法主要是節點有備份他轉移關鍵基礎設施到境外或第三地那用非同步軌道,中軌、低軌的衛星\n\n08:14.023 --> 08:38.018\n開放全國用戶漫遊當然STARLINK給他很大的服務他有8萬4千個台如果我們才7千個點這個不能比可是美國人替他付錢但是希望未來軍民都能夠手機能暢通維持軍政體系緊急服務對外跟國際的聲音能夠暢通鞏固民心\n\n08:39.670 --> 09:08.884\n在今年的國慶我們總統也強調了團結台灣、共援夢想演說中多次強調的韌性提升國家整體的國防、民生、災防、民主四大韌性這個東西雖然只是成立了跨部會的委員會可是因為我還是要強調因為我們目前還沒有一個完整的國家安全戰略必須用國家安全戰略做整合性的思考\n\n09:10.489 --> 09:29.832\n我們去問的不是你的強而是最脆弱點這個部會的脆弱點不能解決那那個部會的強點並不能補足因此你看我們最後用一張圖這是一個結構性的細微圖它的思維包括糧食、醫療、法律\n\n09:31.069 --> 09:52.048\n供應鏈、經濟、能源、電力、石油、天然氣、儲備在這個中間的問題必須要完全解決了才會去推外圍的軍事行動所以這個思維是做給我們做建設國家安全戰略跨部會協調所以不管是能源、經濟、通訊\n\n09:55.653 --> 10:13.359\n醫療、整個社會福利再加上國防的支撐這是一個整體的思考我們希望我們的政府在任內要把國家安全辦理整合進我們所有的部會橫向的協調以上提供做參考謝謝你部長我再請您做一個指導\n\n10:23.935 --> 10:46.409\n有關國家安全戰略把他整合進整合國防戰略跟社會韌性我特別強調美國的四年期國防總檢2017年已經終止了因為他覺得他裡面由下向上產生的很多的需求跟上向下的政策不能同步掉因為我們明年可能要出QDR了\n\n10:47.009 --> 11:11.202\n是不是請部長在這個地方稍微琢磨一下也就是國防戰略的指導這個章節必須要內容要充實一下因為沒有一個明確的指導因為上游沒有國家安全戰略那美國從國家安全戰略到國防戰略到國防軍事戰略然後再到作戰區的作戰計劃我們現在是QDR下面在兩年一本的國防報告書\n\n11:12.202 --> 11:39.656\n後面就是我們的軍事作戰計畫我們希望這個政策指導要有的延貫性有持續性那水平橫向的聯繫要能夠要徹底的溝通這點請部長做一點回應當然我在國安會任職的時候我有充分的體會到就是說我們要擬定一個非常具體的一個國家安全戰略是在我\n\n11:41.416 --> 12:05.472\n一直在我的思考當中但其實它有點不太容易的原因是因為我們國家處境的特殊性我講一個很簡單的例子我們跟台美之間我們就完全沒有辦法公開所以在國家安全戰略就是說我們跟它之間的這個交流基於台美之間的默契我們是沒有辦法的我們沒有辦法寫成一部我們怎麼樣來一個\n\n12:09.395 --> 12:33.451\n一個...就是說日本他發現一個國家他不會去顧慮到說什麼跟什麼他跟美國之間的這個那我們就要顧慮到很多我們必須在這個所謂的這個印太區域國家的這個形成的協同嚇阻的這樣的一個部分就我們就必須要有很多隱晦那我們也不能沒有沒有辦法明白這樣所以\n\n12:34.742 --> 12:45.816\n我覺得我們要試圖嘗試但是我個人是覺得還蠻困難的法務部長您可以這樣子有機密版有公開版\n\n12:46.345 --> 13:08.107\n那對國人來講還是要有一個簡述的公開的...我也看過委員的意見就是說有公開感的機密版但是我很怕那個機密版就成為大家都想看的那個版那你就什麼事情越機密呢那個就...因為這個是橫向跨部會協調一個重要的指標啦參考提供您參考好謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.53,"end":1.791,"text":"有請國防部顧部長顧部長"},{"start":11.862,"end":37.536,"text":"剛才聽取你的報告中間有幾個很重要的項目今天聽到你把它點出來了我覺得這個對所有的國人來講是一個很重要的說明但在這個前提下我也幫你再做一點補充您剛剛特別在這個灰色地帶的戰術因為有很多人關心所謂的封鎖您剛剛提到了就是說這是一個戰爭行為其實是"},{"start":40.202,"end":67.584,"text":"不是一個單一對台而且它影響到整個國際的金融、能源、航運尤其是台灣海峽周遭因此剛才講的灰色區塊的戰術行動它是一種消耗戰那麼除了選項做封鎖以外就是Blockade以外它還有一個叫Cursive Quarantine就是威懾性的臨檢那這個就是屬於執法行為它把範圍就跟Narrow Down"},{"start":68.665,"end":80.219,"text":"這個東西我們是希望國內除了灰色地帶的軍事或者是軍事行動消耗戰以外另外有關在您的專家就在法律範圍的這個"},{"start":82.062,"end":104.23,"text":"我們講的不是灰色地帶就是灰色區塊的國際法、海洋法、武裝衝突法這一段我希望未來在敘述的時候論述的時候讓國內了解一個封鎖不是單獨對台灣是對所有相關國家它造成的金融、國際的保險、物價的上漲那是一個非常大的衝擊我不認為中共在現階段會實施這個手段"},{"start":106.491,"end":133.729,"text":"那麼這次誠如您講的他是drill他不是exercise他只是單向的兵力配置顯示我到位並沒有演練出封鎖的行為那下面呢我就給您看這張我們國軍啊我想了解一下我們通知跟電子次長跟情報次長就是我們除了我們軍用的本身的專用的衛星頻道以外"},{"start":134.795,"end":135.817,"text":"在民用衛星 裡面"},{"start":139.366,"end":168.324,"text":"我們國軍能夠分享到多少頻道這個可靠度在戰時尤其是機動台的部分因為這個是備援模式因為我們除了有機動的微波我們有機動台即使中華電信不能提供我們有機動台但數量會不夠但中華另外就是OneWeb速發部簽的這個對我們國軍頻寬跟我們使用到什麼位階"},{"start":171.485,"end":189.493,"text":"這個聯絡您這邊能不能說明一下各位我想現在OneWeb現在的品官就國軍的作戰需求來講現在是還到現在是不夠的我瞭解這個是確定當然要看OneWeb未來的發展"},{"start":192.295,"end":198.519,"text":"這張圖特別強調了一個是海欄的圖跟世界連接圖第二個是海上交通線就是剛剛講我們要確保我們的航運暢通因為這下面顯示了海欄的通訊量它是這個衛星通訊的"},{"start":221.138,"end":245.452,"text":"以現在OneWeb的速度來看是它的4000倍所以以衛星通信是不夠的所以海欖的可靠度維修那麼跟不同的海欖公司簽約那中華電信有簽約我們速發部應該也能夠掌握要能夠掌握海欖修復船它多久能夠到在這個修復過程中間我們的備援方案"},{"start":246.714,"end":259.787,"text":"透過第三地地面站再衛星跨接到海南再把信號回送這是一個選擇方案我希望我們國軍在這個備案的研究上面能夠多做一點琢磨"},{"start":263.36,"end":285.926,"text":"選項、方案,而不是只靠一項。」委員報告事實上已經有相關的,但是我想我不適合在公開的這個場合來說明這個我們的相關的一個備援的一個方法。是,我了解。是不是也請我們速發部的同仁能夠幫忙說明一下。請看這張圖,這個是我們的,部長您請回。這個是我們連接外島的海嵐。"},{"start":293.854,"end":316.342,"text":"那麼因為兩年前馬祖海欄那個事件給我們一個很大的一個教訓就是經驗也累積也知道如果沒有及時的修復能力那這個就等於沒有手機了這個smartphone也沒有了甚至你的whatsapp你的line都不能通了那甚至影響最大的如果是通知到國際海欄的話"},{"start":318.183,"end":331.056,"text":"等於說我們及時的外匯存底的調撥就產生問題了那這個是根據我們公家的資料我改版重新經過校正把它的顯示出來的那這就是我們現在"},{"start":332.759,"end":358.289,"text":"各個海欄連接處那麼海欄在陸上連接台的那個地方的安全可能在未來不管是寶二或者是由其他的民防單位這個要有演練因為脆弱度不僅只於上岸或者是走地下真正的那個控制中心是要很重要的我們再看這個"},{"start":360.657,"end":386.294,"text":"這張圖是跟經濟部有關的就是所有西岸的基礎建設因此海灘不容易變成兩棲登陸因此美方的致富就是說是將來可能就是把你的通訊、斷纜、通訊那中華電信跟我們經濟部都能夠掌握我們的發電、網路配電現在還有一個超高壓配電所的安危也是一個重要的防護的"},{"start":390.578,"end":404.179,"text":"跟我們的電信、衛星跟微波這三個是相互支援那必須有一個整合計劃就是有一個最糟糕的情況發生的話有沒有辦法透過第三國第三地"},{"start":405.799,"end":420.899,"text":"然後衛星第三地再經過海欄再送回來這個我想在將來您在國際上面跟合作對象談判的時候要強化就像原來的這個OneWeb是在泰國在日本在關島"},{"start":422.386,"end":439.086,"text":"那麼我們希望能夠未來如果持續有希望在台灣能夠設地面戰能夠自己掌控那這個圖看到右邊的那張圖其實就是我們的電網的脆弱度的超高壓那我們的政府原來是說五年"},{"start":440.047,"end":467.446,"text":"十年五千億現在總統是說要加快要電網的韌性因為我們不希望並不是發電設施並不是能源中斷而跳電而是電網的配電超高壓345千伏161千伏你兩個站一跳三分之一個台灣就沒電了那這個不是兩天三天修復的好的所以這個部分又影響了我們的通訊所以不管是能源、海纜、衛星"},{"start":470.634,"end":490.282,"text":"電輸送、配電,這個都是整合在一起當然這個不是您這個範疇我剛剛主要是提到的衛星通訊二胡戰爭期間,烏克蘭為維持網路暢通他的方法主要是節點有備份他轉移關鍵基礎設施到境外或第三地那用非同步軌道,中軌、低軌的衛星"},{"start":494.023,"end":518.018,"text":"開放全國用戶漫遊當然STARLINK給他很大的服務他有8萬4千個台如果我們才7千個點這個不能比可是美國人替他付錢但是希望未來軍民都能夠手機能暢通維持軍政體系緊急服務對外跟國際的聲音能夠暢通鞏固民心"},{"start":519.67,"end":548.884,"text":"在今年的國慶我們總統也強調了團結台灣、共援夢想演說中多次強調的韌性提升國家整體的國防、民生、災防、民主四大韌性這個東西雖然只是成立了跨部會的委員會可是因為我還是要強調因為我們目前還沒有一個完整的國家安全戰略必須用國家安全戰略做整合性的思考"},{"start":550.489,"end":569.832,"text":"我們去問的不是你的強而是最脆弱點這個部會的脆弱點不能解決那那個部會的強點並不能補足因此你看我們最後用一張圖這是一個結構性的細微圖它的思維包括糧食、醫療、法律"},{"start":571.069,"end":592.048,"text":"供應鏈、經濟、能源、電力、石油、天然氣、儲備在這個中間的問題必須要完全解決了才會去推外圍的軍事行動所以這個思維是做給我們做建設國家安全戰略跨部會協調所以不管是能源、經濟、通訊"},{"start":595.653,"end":613.359,"text":"醫療、整個社會福利再加上國防的支撐這是一個整體的思考我們希望我們的政府在任內要把國家安全辦理整合進我們所有的部會橫向的協調以上提供做參考謝謝你部長我再請您做一個指導"},{"start":623.935,"end":646.409,"text":"有關國家安全戰略把他整合進整合國防戰略跟社會韌性我特別強調美國的四年期國防總檢2017年已經終止了因為他覺得他裡面由下向上產生的很多的需求跟上向下的政策不能同步掉因為我們明年可能要出QDR了"},{"start":647.009,"end":671.202,"text":"是不是請部長在這個地方稍微琢磨一下也就是國防戰略的指導這個章節必須要內容要充實一下因為沒有一個明確的指導因為上游沒有國家安全戰略那美國從國家安全戰略到國防戰略到國防軍事戰略然後再到作戰區的作戰計劃我們現在是QDR下面在兩年一本的國防報告書"},{"start":672.202,"end":699.656,"text":"後面就是我們的軍事作戰計畫我們希望這個政策指導要有的延貫性有持續性那水平橫向的聯繫要能夠要徹底的溝通這點請部長做一點回應當然我在國安會任職的時候我有充分的體會到就是說我們要擬定一個非常具體的一個國家安全戰略是在我"},{"start":701.416,"end":725.472,"text":"一直在我的思考當中但其實它有點不太容易的原因是因為我們國家處境的特殊性我講一個很簡單的例子我們跟台美之間我們就完全沒有辦法公開所以在國家安全戰略就是說我們跟它之間的這個交流基於台美之間的默契我們是沒有辦法的我們沒有辦法寫成一部我們怎麼樣來一個"},{"start":729.395,"end":753.451,"text":"一個...就是說日本他發現一個國家他不會去顧慮到說什麼跟什麼他跟美國之間的這個那我們就要顧慮到很多我們必須在這個所謂的這個印太區域國家的這個形成的協同嚇阻的這樣的一個部分就我們就必須要有很多隱晦那我們也不能沒有沒有辦法明白這樣所以"},{"start":754.742,"end":765.816,"text":"我覺得我們要試圖嘗試但是我個人是覺得還蠻困難的法務部長您可以這樣子有機密版有公開版"},{"start":766.345,"end":788.107,"text":"那對國人來講還是要有一個簡述的公開的...我也看過委員的意見就是說有公開感的機密版但是我很怕那個機密版就成為大家都想看的那個版那你就什麼事情越機密呢那個就...因為這個是橫向跨部會協調一個重要的指標啦 參考提供您參考好 謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":424,"blocks":[["陳委員永康：（9時27分）主席有請國防部顧部長。"],["主席：請顧部長。"],["顧部長立雄：陳委員好。"],["陳委員永康：部長早。剛才聽取你的報告，中間有幾個很重要的項目，今天聽到你把它點出來了，我覺得這個對所有的國人來講，是一個很重要的說明。在這個前提下，我也幫你再做一點補充，您剛剛特別在灰色地帶的戰術，因為有很多人關心所謂的封鎖，您提到這是一個戰爭行為，其實不是一個單一對臺，它影響到整個國際的金融、能源、航運，尤其是臺灣海峽周遭。因此剛才講的灰色區塊戰術行動，它是一種消耗戰，除了選項做封鎖blockade以外，它還有一個叫coercive quarantine威懾性的臨檢，這個就是屬於執法行為，它把範圍更narrow down。這個東西，我們是希望國內除了灰色地帶的軍事或者是軍事行動消耗戰以外，有關在您的專業，在法律範圍我們講的不是灰色地帶，就是灰色區塊的國際法、海洋法、武裝衝突法這一段，我希望未來在論述的時候要讓國內瞭解。一個封鎖，不是單獨對臺灣，是對所有相關國家，它造成金融、國際的保險、物價的上漲，那是一個非常大的衝擊，我不認為中共在現階段會實施這個手段。這次誠如您講的，它是drill，不是exercise，只是單向兵力配置顯示我到位，並沒有演練出封鎖的行為。","下面我就給您看這一張，我想瞭解一下，我們通資、電子次長跟情報次長，我們除了軍用的、本身的、專用的衛星頻道以外，在民用衛星像OneWeb裡面，我們國軍能夠分享到多少頻道？這個可靠度在戰時，尤其是機動臺的部分，因為這個是備援模式，因為我們除了有機動的微波，我們有機動臺，即使中華電信不能提供，我們還有機動臺，但數量會不夠。另外OneWeb數發部簽的這個，對我們國軍頻寬，跟我們使用到什麼位階，這個聯六，您這邊能不能說明一下？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，OneWeb現在的頻寬，就國軍的作戰需求來講，到現在是還不夠的。"],["陳委員永康：我瞭解。"],["顧部長立雄：這個是確定，當然後續要看OneWeb未來的發展。不過至今為止，如果以我們作戰的需求來看的話，不能夠借重OneWeb。"],["陳委員永康：是，這張圖特別強調一個是海纜的圖跟世界連結圖，第二個是海上交通線，就是剛剛講的要確保我們航運暢通。因為這下面顯示了海纜的通訊量，以現在OneWeb的速度來看，它是衛星通訊的四千倍，所以以衛星通訊是不夠的。因此海纜的可靠度與維修，跟不同的海纜公司簽約，中華電信也有簽約，我們數發部應該也要能夠掌握海纜修復船多久能夠到達？在這個修復過程中間我們的備援方案，透過第三國、第三地地面站再衛星跨接到海纜，再把信號回送，這是一個選擇方案，我希望我們國軍在這個備案的研究上面，能夠多做一點著墨，有一點選項方案，而不是只靠一項。"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，事實上已經有相關的，但是我不適合在公開的場合來說明我們相關的一個備援方法。"],["陳委員永康：是，我瞭解，是不是也請我們數發部的同仁能夠幫忙說明一下。請看這張圖，這個是我們連接外島的海纜，因為兩年前馬祖海纜事件給我們一個很大的教訓，經驗也累積，也知道如果沒有及時的修復能力，就等於沒有手機了、smartphone也沒有了，WhatsApp、LINE都不能通了，甚至影響最大的，如果是通知到國際海纜的話，等於我們即時外匯存底的調撥就產生問題了，這是我根據公家的資料改版，重新校正顯示出來的，這就是我們現在各個海纜連接處，海纜在陸上連接臺的安全，可能未來不管是保二，或者是由其他的民防單位，這個要演練，因為脆弱度不僅止於上岸，或者是走地下，真正的控制中心是很重要的。","我們再看下一張圖，這跟經濟部有關，是所有西岸的基礎建設，因此海灘不容易變成兩棲登陸，美方的智庫就說，將來可能就是把我們的通訊斷纜；中華電信跟經濟部都能夠掌握發電、網路、配電，現在還有超高壓配電所的安維，這也是重要防護，所以海纜跟電信、衛星跟微波三個相互支援，必須要有一個整合計畫，若最糟糕情況發生的話，有沒有辦法透過第三國、第三地，用衛星從第三地經過海纜再送回來。我想將來您在國際上跟合作對象談判的時候要強化，就像原來OneWeb在泰國、在日本、在關島，我希望未來如果能夠持續在臺灣設地面站、能夠自己掌控。","看到右邊那張圖，其實就是我們電網脆弱度的超高壓，我們政府原來說10年5,000億，現在總統說要加快電網韌性，因為我們不希望發電設施或能源中斷而跳電，而是電網的配電超高壓345千伏、161千伏，兩個站一跳，三分之一個臺灣就沒電了，這不是兩天、三天修復的好的，這部分又影響了我們的通訊，所以不管是能源、海纜、衛星、輸送配電都是整合在一起的。當然這不是您的範疇，我剛剛主要提到的是衛星通訊。","俄烏戰爭期間，烏克蘭為維持網路暢通，他們的方法主要是節點有備份，轉移關鍵基礎設施到境外或第三地，用非同步軌道，用中軌、低軌的衛星，開放全國用戶漫遊，當然Starlink給他們很大的服務，有8萬4,000個臺，我們才7,000個點，那這個不能比，他們可是美國人替他們付錢。希望未來軍民都能夠手機暢通，維持軍政體系、緊急服務，對外跟國際的聲音能夠暢通，鞏固民心。","在今年的國慶，我們總統也強調了團結臺灣，共圓夢想，演說中多次強調韌性，提升國家整體國防、民生、災防、民主四大韌性。雖然只是成立了跨部會的委員會，可是我還是要強調，因為我們目前還沒有一個完整的國家安全戰略，必須用國家安全戰略做整合性的思考，我們問的不是強點，而是最脆弱點，這個部會的脆弱點不能解決，那個部會的強點並不能補足，因此我最後用一張結構性的細微圖，它的思維包括糧食、醫療、法律、供應鏈、經濟、能源、電力、石油、天然氣儲備，這中間的問題必須要完全解決了才會去推外圍的軍事行動，這個思維是給我們做建設國家安全戰略跨部會協調，不管是能源、經濟、通訊、醫療、社會福利，再加上國防的支撐，這是一個整體的思考，我希望我們政府在任內要把國家安全戰略整合進所有的部會，橫向的協調，以上提供做參考。"],["胡主任秘書貝蒂：謝謝委員，謝謝。"],["陳委員永康：部長，我再請您做一個指導。"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["陳委員永康：有關國家安全戰略，把它整合進國防戰略跟社會韌性，我特別強調，美國的4年期國防總檢在2017年已經終止了，因為他們覺得由下向上產生很多需求跟由上向下的政策不能同步。我們明年可能要出QDR了，是不是請部長在這個地方稍微琢磨一下，也就是國防戰略指導這個章節內容必須要充實一下，如果沒有一個明確的指導，上游沒有國家安全戰略，美國從國家安全戰略到國防戰略及國防軍事戰略，再到作戰區的作戰計畫，而我們現在是QDR，之後再兩年一本的國防報告書，後面就是我們的軍事作戰計畫，希望這個政策指導要有連貫性、有持續性，水平橫向的聯繫要能夠澈底溝通，這點請部長回應。"],["顧部長立雄：我在國安會任職的時候，我充分的體會到，要擬定一個非常具體的國家安全戰略是一直在我的思考當中，但其實它有點不太容易的原因是我們國家處境的特殊性，我講一個很簡單的例子，我們跟臺美之間就完全沒有辦法公開，所以在國家安全戰略，也就是我們跟他們之間的交流，以臺美之間的默契，我們是沒有辦法的，我們沒有辦法寫成一部怎麼樣來一個……就是日本他們對於國家安全不會去顧慮什麼跟什麼，他們跟美國之間的……那我們就要顧慮到很多，我們必須在印太區域國家形成協同嚇阻，必須要有很多隱晦，那我們也沒有辦法明白講，所以我覺得我們要試圖嘗試，但我個人覺得還蠻困難的。"],["陳委員永康：部長，您可以這樣子，有機密版、有公開版，對國人來講，還是要有一個簡述的公開版。"],["顧部長立雄：我也看過委員的意見，有公開版、機密版，但我很怕那個機密版就成為大家都想看的那個版，什麼事情越機密就……"],["陳委員永康：因為這個是橫向跨部會協調的重要指標，提供您參考。"],["顧部長立雄：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員永康：謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝陳永康委員。","接下來請王定宇召委上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":352,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-7","speakers":["林憶君","羅美玲","陳永康","王定宇","馬文君","黃仁","陳冠廷","林楚茵","沈伯洋","徐巧芯","黃國昌","張啓楷","王鴻薇","洪申翰","羅智強","邱志偉","洪孟楷","賴士葆","張嘉郡"],"page_start":271,"meetingDate":["2024-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1138701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138701_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長、國家安全局、法務部調查局、海洋委員會海巡署、內政部、經濟部、農業部、\n國家發展委員會、國家科學及技術委員會、交通部、數位發展部、衛生福利部報告「針對解放軍\n未來可能透過『灰色地帶戰術』和『蟒蛇戰略』對台灣封鎖之國安危機及如何確保關鍵物資自\n主、關鍵產業、基礎設施、能源自主、民生物資、糧食安全及醫療物資供應無虞之應處作為」，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138701_00004"}}}