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00:00:46,471\n酒飲人數近5年平盤沒有下降藥飲人數反而5年內增長2.5倍\n\n4\n00:00:54,775 --> 00:01:18,254\n那這個統計當然是附選題他有施虐者有可能還有缺乏親自照養的知識甚至互相情緒的特質或親密關係的失調跟經濟因素並不單一可是有沒有去注意到因為過去我在民間在處理兒虐的時候很常就是因為藥酒飲而引發的兒虐事件那再看這些\n\n5\n00:01:19,155 --> 00:01:19,295\n主席\n\n6\n00:01:49,327 --> 00:02:16,989\n在家裡是不是如果有這樣的藥酒飲的話可能會增加衝動跟易怒的暴怒的行為然後呢會讓孩子有更大的風險還有破壞家庭關係因為這種物質使用會讓他對孩子的目不關心然後甚至會出現家庭暴力那就增加孩子被虐的一個風險還有因為藥蠻貴的所以呢這個毒蠻貴的話就會增加大量金錢的使用然後就會導致家庭經濟的困難\n\n7\n00:02:18,612 --> 00:02:18,772\n林月琴議員\n\n8\n00:02:36,059 --> 00:02:57,139\n風險指標裡邊只要有藥酒飲的都列為是脆家那從剛剛前面的那個美國的藥酒飲對額內的影響當中我們也知道這個指標列是應該的那可是我去問一線社工他們最大的困難是這樣列進來了是脆家沒有問題問題是他要怎麼處理\n\n9\n00:02:58,871 --> 00:03:26,886\n因為這些都是非自願性的家長那他們大部分都是沒有病史感對啊他被列為催家那接下來呢這沒有錯這個事實上是2018年的報告者可是直至今日還是如出一轍的也就是說根本要請他們進到醫院進到行為中心去接受治療這社工界面對到的困難\n\n10\n00:03:28,561 --> 00:03:28,621\n林月琴議員\n\n11\n00:03:50,310 --> 00:04:13,639\n所以就要來問一下現在的確我們的藥酒飲的家庭的服務可以看到有新建師我們的設救師有各式各種的藥酒飲的個案的服務計畫可是現況是什麼這些計畫都是被動的今天如果他不上門又沒有任何法律強制\n\n12\n00:04:15,874 --> 00:04:34,193\n想問部長你這前端的預防到底是什麼那這兩個單位都是我們衛福部轄下的管理單位如果要等到個案自己上來做我們的介制的話那個案不願意來這就是普遍社工遇到最大困難我們到底要怎麼做部長\n\n13\n00:04:36,496 --> 00:05:04,078\n謝謝委員這麼詳盡的把我們整個相關的議題做這麼清楚的分析那也指出了前端的重要性那前端就是在整個心理健康的一個推展我想這個對整個在藥酒飲方面會有很大的幫助所以在這個部分政府也提出了很多的方案在努力\n\n14\n00:05:04,923 --> 00:05:06,324\n所以這個就是要配合也要跟縣市衛生局合作\n\n15\n00:05:27,763 --> 00:05:54,412\n社工的系統不是有問題才去好像救火員他應該是一個巡查員可是你崔家就已經把他們列為指標說一定要他就是你要關懷對象問題是我們要解決他問題預防說他會不會有惡虐當初為列為這樣的指標之一也是怕他有惡虐的可能性結果他不進去治療的話接受那個戒指的話你根本就是沒有辦法他不接受治療\n\n16\n00:05:56,817 --> 00:05:57,977\n對社工的提供服務,我想他就是一個提供服務\n\n17\n00:06:22,342 --> 00:06:42,917\n我們的確是沒有辦法有這個強制力但如果是提供服務應該是它的進變性跟可及性是要被考慮所以難怪我們的藥酒營還是有額內的問題所以你們自己去看這個就是你們的服務所以我剛剛前面提到說從檢察署的數據來看到每一年大概私用土餅的大概7萬多人可是興建師申請藥酒營\n\n18\n00:06:45,179 --> 00:06:45,299\n林月琴議員\n\n19\n00:06:56,786 --> 00:06:56,806\n韓國瑜議員\n\n20\n00:07:23,590 --> 00:07:48,613\n有數據才能夠去解決問題可是我們自己大概沒有什麼數據所以我們就找到臺灣成癮學會的統計推估臺灣有80人有酒癮的問題可是衛福部大概看這近三年的數據我們的酒癮服務人數雖然有逐年增加可是也只有3000多的家暴加害人我前面問是說你列為這個指標催加可是如果他真的後來動手了看起來似乎\n\n21\n00:07:50,239 --> 00:07:56,221\n新建師及設救師計劃都不是主動等個案自己來上門。第二個是真的有要酒飲的而且已經對孩子不當對待的\n\n22\n00:08:09,039 --> 00:08:09,439\n李慧琼議員\n\n23\n00:08:22,500 --> 00:08:23,080\n有法院去命他做藉酒飲的治療\n\n24\n00:08:47,783 --> 00:08:54,032\n這個我想問市長很清楚有這樣做嗎否則不會社工一直他們現在很辛苦的地方是\n\n25\n00:08:55,253 --> 00:08:55,273\n國務院議員\n\n26\n00:09:22,327 --> 00:09:49,226\n希望國務院不要向交通部、運營所做出來報告好了讓同仁來蓋泡麵2023年國務院就邀請學者在我們的研討會當中分析這幾個國家都有去應對的預防性的政策在執行既然國務院做出來它不是讓你們訴諸高閣而是應該要有更積極的作為那接下來想問的是\n\n27\n00:09:50,560 --> 00:10:19,629\n到底是需求有減少嗎還是問題變好了可是我們沒有看問題變好了可是怎麼是逐年減劣而且2025年對直轄縣市政府各縣市的補助就不見了那藥酒飲家庭的後續追蹤的預算又是一個逐年減劣想問前面我都擔心做不好了社工也一直覺得他沒有辦法在你那邊拿到服務的時候結果現在竟然預算是減劣\n\n28\n00:10:20,469 --> 00:10:22,451\n市長,我剛剛講,如果按\n\n29\n00:10:41,331 --> 00:10:50,271\n你們有沒有主動讓它進到你們體系然後你們就是因為沒有人來然後就檢列可是它問題是還是存在的\n\n30\n00:10:50,871 --> 00:11:15,064\n所以對於藥酒飲家庭的支持服務我主張家庭有錢在藥酒飲個案的話請追蹤列管主動關懷還有對有藥酒飲且已經對孩子不當對待的請你們訂立相關的法令或者是要用什麼方法來讓他強制就醫所以請衛福部在研擬討論後回覆我辦公室一個禮拜可以嗎\n\n31\n00:11:16,631 --> 00:11:43,325\n報告委員我想我們兒權法裡面會把剛剛你提的這部分加進去可是你兒權法到現在都還是完全沒有辦法也沒有任何修正啊結合民間的社工室然後由主責的政府的社工室一起大家建構一個網絡不要兒童的虐待兒童沒被保護到社工又出眾然後讓現場的崩盤一個禮拜可以嗎可以一個禮拜我們提出這個規劃謝謝\n\n32\n00:11:47,098 --> 00:11:47,119\n好,謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8478\t22650\t謝謝主席,有請部長部長請委員早部長早,剛剛大家前面都在講毒品那我這邊也不例外,就是想把兩個主題結合起來\n23237\t26379\t首先根據衛福部的2019年到2022年的一個5年的統計觀察我們可以看到我們一些惡虐的樣態裡邊\n43969\t46471\t酒飲人數近5年平盤沒有下降藥飲人數反而5年內增長2.5倍\n54775\t78254\t那這個統計當然是附選題他有施虐者有可能還有缺乏親自照養的知識甚至互相情緒的特質或親密關係的失調跟經濟因素並不單一可是有沒有去注意到因為過去我在民間在處理兒虐的時候很常就是因為藥酒飲而引發的兒虐事件那再看這些\n79155\t79295\t主席\n109327\t136989\t在家裡是不是如果有這樣的藥酒飲的話可能會增加衝動跟易怒的暴怒的行為然後呢會讓孩子有更大的風險還有破壞家庭關係因為這種物質使用會讓他對孩子的目不關心然後甚至會出現家庭暴力那就增加孩子被虐的一個風險還有因為藥蠻貴的所以呢這個毒蠻貴的話就會增加大量金錢的使用然後就會導致家庭經濟的困難\n138612\t138772\t林月琴議員\n156059\t177139\t風險指標裡邊只要有藥酒飲的都列為是脆家那從剛剛前面的那個美國的藥酒飲對額內的影響當中我們也知道這個指標列是應該的那可是我去問一線社工他們最大的困難是這樣列進來了是脆家沒有問題問題是他要怎麼處理\n178871\t206886\t因為這些都是非自願性的家長那他們大部分都是沒有病史感對啊他被列為催家那接下來呢這沒有錯這個事實上是2018年的報告者可是直至今日還是如出一轍的也就是說根本要請他們進到醫院進到行為中心去接受治療這社工界面對到的困難\n208561\t208621\t林月琴議員\n230310\t253639\t所以就要來問一下現在的確我們的藥酒飲的家庭的服務可以看到有新建師我們的設救師有各式各種的藥酒飲的個案的服務計畫可是現況是什麼這些計畫都是被動的今天如果他不上門又沒有任何法律強制\n255874\t274193\t想問部長你這前端的預防到底是什麼那這兩個單位都是我們衛福部轄下的管理單位如果要等到個案自己上來做我們的介制的話那個案不願意來這就是普遍社工遇到最大困難我們到底要怎麼做部長\n276496\t304078\t謝謝委員這麼詳盡的把我們整個相關的議題做這麼清楚的分析那也指出了前端的重要性那前端就是在整個心理健康的一個推展我想這個對整個在藥酒飲方面會有很大的幫助所以在這個部分政府也提出了很多的方案在努力\n304923\t306324\t所以這個就是要配合也要跟縣市衛生局合作\n327763\t354412\t社工的系統不是有問題才去好像救火員他應該是一個巡查員可是你崔家就已經把他們列為指標說一定要他就是你要關懷對象問題是我們要解決他問題預防說他會不會有惡虐當初為列為這樣的指標之一也是怕他有惡虐的可能性結果他不進去治療的話接受那個戒指的話你根本就是沒有辦法他不接受治療\n356817\t357977\t對社工的提供服務,我想他就是一個提供服務\n382342\t402917\t我們的確是沒有辦法有這個強制力但如果是提供服務應該是它的進變性跟可及性是要被考慮所以難怪我們的藥酒營還是有額內的問題所以你們自己去看這個就是你們的服務所以我剛剛前面提到說從檢察署的數據來看到每一年大概私用土餅的大概7萬多人可是興建師申請藥酒營\n405179\t405299\t林月琴議員\n416786\t416806\t韓國瑜議員\n443590\t468613\t有數據才能夠去解決問題可是我們自己大概沒有什麼數據所以我們就找到臺灣成癮學會的統計推估臺灣有80人有酒癮的問題可是衛福部大概看這近三年的數據我們的酒癮服務人數雖然有逐年增加可是也只有3000多的家暴加害人我前面問是說你列為這個指標催加可是如果他真的後來動手了看起來似乎\n470239\t476221\t新建師及設救師計劃都不是主動等個案自己來上門。第二個是真的有要酒飲的而且已經對孩子不當對待的\n489039\t489439\t李慧琼議員\n502500\t503080\t有法院去命他做藉酒飲的治療\n527783\t534032\t這個我想問市長很清楚有這樣做嗎否則不會社工一直他們現在很辛苦的地方是\n535253\t535273\t國務院議員\n562327\t589226\t希望國務院不要向交通部、運營所做出來報告好了讓同仁來蓋泡麵2023年國務院就邀請學者在我們的研討會當中分析這幾個國家都有去應對的預防性的政策在執行既然國務院做出來它不是讓你們訴諸高閣而是應該要有更積極的作為那接下來想問的是\n590560\t619629\t到底是需求有減少嗎還是問題變好了可是我們沒有看問題變好了可是怎麼是逐年減劣而且2025年對直轄縣市政府各縣市的補助就不見了那藥酒飲家庭的後續追蹤的預算又是一個逐年減劣想問前面我都擔心做不好了社工也一直覺得他沒有辦法在你那邊拿到服務的時候結果現在竟然預算是減劣\n620469\t622451\t市長,我剛剛講,如果按\n641331\t650271\t你們有沒有主動讓它進到你們體系然後你們就是因為沒有人來然後就檢列可是它問題是還是存在的\n650871\t675064\t所以對於藥酒飲家庭的支持服務我主張家庭有錢在藥酒飲個案的話請追蹤列管主動關懷還有對有藥酒飲且已經對孩子不當對待的請你們訂立相關的法令或者是要用什麼方法來讓他強制就醫所以請衛福部在研擬討論後回覆我辦公室一個禮拜可以嗎\n676631\t703325\t報告委員我想我們兒權法裡面會把剛剛你提的這部分加進去可是你兒權法到現在都還是完全沒有辦法也沒有任何修正啊結合民間的社工室然後由主責的政府的社工室一起大家建構一個網絡不要兒童的虐待兒童沒被保護到社工又出眾然後讓現場的崩盤一個禮拜可以嗎可以一個禮拜我們提出這個規劃謝謝\n707098\t707119\t好,謝謝。\n","txt":"謝謝主席,有請部長部長請委員早部長早,剛剛大家前面都在講毒品那我這邊也不例外,就是想把兩個主題結合起來\n首先根據衛福部的2019年到2022年的一個5年的統計觀察我們可以看到我們一些惡虐的樣態裡邊\n酒飲人數近5年平盤沒有下降藥飲人數反而5年內增長2.5倍\n那這個統計當然是附選題他有施虐者有可能還有缺乏親自照養的知識甚至互相情緒的特質或親密關係的失調跟經濟因素並不單一可是有沒有去注意到因為過去我在民間在處理兒虐的時候很常就是因為藥酒飲而引發的兒虐事件那再看這些\n主席\n在家裡是不是如果有這樣的藥酒飲的話可能會增加衝動跟易怒的暴怒的行為然後呢會讓孩子有更大的風險還有破壞家庭關係因為這種物質使用會讓他對孩子的目不關心然後甚至會出現家庭暴力那就增加孩子被虐的一個風險還有因為藥蠻貴的所以呢這個毒蠻貴的話就會增加大量金錢的使用然後就會導致家庭經濟的困難\n林月琴議員\n風險指標裡邊只要有藥酒飲的都列為是脆家那從剛剛前面的那個美國的藥酒飲對額內的影響當中我們也知道這個指標列是應該的那可是我去問一線社工他們最大的困難是這樣列進來了是脆家沒有問題問題是他要怎麼處理\n因為這些都是非自願性的家長那他們大部分都是沒有病史感對啊他被列為催家那接下來呢這沒有錯這個事實上是2018年的報告者可是直至今日還是如出一轍的也就是說根本要請他們進到醫院進到行為中心去接受治療這社工界面對到的困難\n林月琴議員\n所以就要來問一下現在的確我們的藥酒飲的家庭的服務可以看到有新建師我們的設救師有各式各種的藥酒飲的個案的服務計畫可是現況是什麼這些計畫都是被動的今天如果他不上門又沒有任何法律強制\n想問部長你這前端的預防到底是什麼那這兩個單位都是我們衛福部轄下的管理單位如果要等到個案自己上來做我們的介制的話那個案不願意來這就是普遍社工遇到最大困難我們到底要怎麼做部長\n謝謝委員這麼詳盡的把我們整個相關的議題做這麼清楚的分析那也指出了前端的重要性那前端就是在整個心理健康的一個推展我想這個對整個在藥酒飲方面會有很大的幫助所以在這個部分政府也提出了很多的方案在努力\n所以這個就是要配合也要跟縣市衛生局合作\n社工的系統不是有問題才去好像救火員他應該是一個巡查員可是你崔家就已經把他們列為指標說一定要他就是你要關懷對象問題是我們要解決他問題預防說他會不會有惡虐當初為列為這樣的指標之一也是怕他有惡虐的可能性結果他不進去治療的話接受那個戒指的話你根本就是沒有辦法他不接受治療\n對社工的提供服務,我想他就是一個提供服務\n我們的確是沒有辦法有這個強制力但如果是提供服務應該是它的進變性跟可及性是要被考慮所以難怪我們的藥酒營還是有額內的問題所以你們自己去看這個就是你們的服務所以我剛剛前面提到說從檢察署的數據來看到每一年大概私用土餅的大概7萬多人可是興建師申請藥酒營\n林月琴議員\n韓國瑜議員\n有數據才能夠去解決問題可是我們自己大概沒有什麼數據所以我們就找到臺灣成癮學會的統計推估臺灣有80人有酒癮的問題可是衛福部大概看這近三年的數據我們的酒癮服務人數雖然有逐年增加可是也只有3000多的家暴加害人我前面問是說你列為這個指標催加可是如果他真的後來動手了看起來似乎\n新建師及設救師計劃都不是主動等個案自己來上門。第二個是真的有要酒飲的而且已經對孩子不當對待的\n李慧琼議員\n有法院去命他做藉酒飲的治療\n這個我想問市長很清楚有這樣做嗎否則不會社工一直他們現在很辛苦的地方是\n國務院議員\n希望國務院不要向交通部、運營所做出來報告好了讓同仁來蓋泡麵2023年國務院就邀請學者在我們的研討會當中分析這幾個國家都有去應對的預防性的政策在執行既然國務院做出來它不是讓你們訴諸高閣而是應該要有更積極的作為那接下來想問的是\n到底是需求有減少嗎還是問題變好了可是我們沒有看問題變好了可是怎麼是逐年減劣而且2025年對直轄縣市政府各縣市的補助就不見了那藥酒飲家庭的後續追蹤的預算又是一個逐年減劣想問前面我都擔心做不好了社工也一直覺得他沒有辦法在你那邊拿到服務的時候結果現在竟然預算是減劣\n市長,我剛剛講,如果按\n你們有沒有主動讓它進到你們體系然後你們就是因為沒有人來然後就檢列可是它問題是還是存在的\n所以對於藥酒飲家庭的支持服務我主張家庭有錢在藥酒飲個案的話請追蹤列管主動關懷還有對有藥酒飲且已經對孩子不當對待的請你們訂立相關的法令或者是要用什麼方法來讓他強制就醫所以請衛福部在研擬討論後回覆我辦公室一個禮拜可以嗎\n報告委員我想我們兒權法裡面會把剛剛你提的這部分加進去可是你兒權法到現在都還是完全沒有辦法也沒有任何修正啊結合民間的社工室然後由主責的政府的社工室一起大家建構一個網絡不要兒童的虐待兒童沒被保護到社工又出眾然後讓現場的崩盤一個禮拜可以嗎可以一個禮拜我們提出這個規劃謝謝\n好,謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.478 --> 00:22.650\n謝謝主席,有請部長部長請委員早部長早,剛剛大家前面都在講毒品那我這邊也不例外,就是想把兩個主題結合起來\n\n00:23.237 --> 00:26.379\n首先根據衛福部的2019年到2022年的一個5年的統計觀察我們可以看到我們一些惡虐的樣態裡邊\n\n00:43.969 --> 00:46.471\n酒飲人數近5年平盤沒有下降藥飲人數反而5年內增長2.5倍\n\n00:54.775 --> 01:18.254\n那這個統計當然是附選題他有施虐者有可能還有缺乏親自照養的知識甚至互相情緒的特質或親密關係的失調跟經濟因素並不單一可是有沒有去注意到因為過去我在民間在處理兒虐的時候很常就是因為藥酒飲而引發的兒虐事件那再看這些\n\n01:19.155 --> 01:19.295\n主席\n\n01:49.327 --> 02:16.989\n在家裡是不是如果有這樣的藥酒飲的話可能會增加衝動跟易怒的暴怒的行為然後呢會讓孩子有更大的風險還有破壞家庭關係因為這種物質使用會讓他對孩子的目不關心然後甚至會出現家庭暴力那就增加孩子被虐的一個風險還有因為藥蠻貴的所以呢這個毒蠻貴的話就會增加大量金錢的使用然後就會導致家庭經濟的困難\n\n02:18.612 --> 02:18.772\n林月琴議員\n\n02:36.059 --> 02:57.139\n風險指標裡邊只要有藥酒飲的都列為是脆家那從剛剛前面的那個美國的藥酒飲對額內的影響當中我們也知道這個指標列是應該的那可是我去問一線社工他們最大的困難是這樣列進來了是脆家沒有問題問題是他要怎麼處理\n\n02:58.871 --> 03:26.886\n因為這些都是非自願性的家長那他們大部分都是沒有病史感對啊他被列為催家那接下來呢這沒有錯這個事實上是2018年的報告者可是直至今日還是如出一轍的也就是說根本要請他們進到醫院進到行為中心去接受治療這社工界面對到的困難\n\n03:28.561 --> 03:28.621\n林月琴議員\n\n03:50.310 --> 04:13.639\n所以就要來問一下現在的確我們的藥酒飲的家庭的服務可以看到有新建師我們的設救師有各式各種的藥酒飲的個案的服務計畫可是現況是什麼這些計畫都是被動的今天如果他不上門又沒有任何法律強制\n\n04:15.874 --> 04:34.193\n想問部長你這前端的預防到底是什麼那這兩個單位都是我們衛福部轄下的管理單位如果要等到個案自己上來做我們的介制的話那個案不願意來這就是普遍社工遇到最大困難我們到底要怎麼做部長\n\n04:36.496 --> 05:04.078\n謝謝委員這麼詳盡的把我們整個相關的議題做這麼清楚的分析那也指出了前端的重要性那前端就是在整個心理健康的一個推展我想這個對整個在藥酒飲方面會有很大的幫助所以在這個部分政府也提出了很多的方案在努力\n\n05:04.923 --> 05:06.324\n所以這個就是要配合也要跟縣市衛生局合作\n\n05:27.763 --> 05:54.412\n社工的系統不是有問題才去好像救火員他應該是一個巡查員可是你崔家就已經把他們列為指標說一定要他就是你要關懷對象問題是我們要解決他問題預防說他會不會有惡虐當初為列為這樣的指標之一也是怕他有惡虐的可能性結果他不進去治療的話接受那個戒指的話你根本就是沒有辦法他不接受治療\n\n05:56.817 --> 05:57.977\n對社工的提供服務,我想他就是一個提供服務\n\n06:22.342 --> 06:42.917\n我們的確是沒有辦法有這個強制力但如果是提供服務應該是它的進變性跟可及性是要被考慮所以難怪我們的藥酒營還是有額內的問題所以你們自己去看這個就是你們的服務所以我剛剛前面提到說從檢察署的數據來看到每一年大概私用土餅的大概7萬多人可是興建師申請藥酒營\n\n06:45.179 --> 06:45.299\n林月琴議員\n\n06:56.786 --> 06:56.806\n韓國瑜議員\n\n07:23.590 --> 07:48.613\n有數據才能夠去解決問題可是我們自己大概沒有什麼數據所以我們就找到臺灣成癮學會的統計推估臺灣有80人有酒癮的問題可是衛福部大概看這近三年的數據我們的酒癮服務人數雖然有逐年增加可是也只有3000多的家暴加害人我前面問是說你列為這個指標催加可是如果他真的後來動手了看起來似乎\n\n07:50.239 --> 07:56.221\n新建師及設救師計劃都不是主動等個案自己來上門。第二個是真的有要酒飲的而且已經對孩子不當對待的\n\n08:09.039 --> 08:09.439\n李慧琼議員\n\n08:22.500 --> 08:23.080\n有法院去命他做藉酒飲的治療\n\n08:47.783 --> 08:54.032\n這個我想問市長很清楚有這樣做嗎否則不會社工一直他們現在很辛苦的地方是\n\n08:55.253 --> 08:55.273\n國務院議員\n\n09:22.327 --> 09:49.226\n希望國務院不要向交通部、運營所做出來報告好了讓同仁來蓋泡麵2023年國務院就邀請學者在我們的研討會當中分析這幾個國家都有去應對的預防性的政策在執行既然國務院做出來它不是讓你們訴諸高閣而是應該要有更積極的作為那接下來想問的是\n\n09:50.560 --> 10:19.629\n到底是需求有減少嗎還是問題變好了可是我們沒有看問題變好了可是怎麼是逐年減劣而且2025年對直轄縣市政府各縣市的補助就不見了那藥酒飲家庭的後續追蹤的預算又是一個逐年減劣想問前面我都擔心做不好了社工也一直覺得他沒有辦法在你那邊拿到服務的時候結果現在竟然預算是減劣\n\n10:20.469 --> 10:22.451\n市長,我剛剛講,如果按\n\n10:41.331 --> 10:50.271\n你們有沒有主動讓它進到你們體系然後你們就是因為沒有人來然後就檢列可是它問題是還是存在的\n\n10:50.871 --> 11:15.064\n所以對於藥酒飲家庭的支持服務我主張家庭有錢在藥酒飲個案的話請追蹤列管主動關懷還有對有藥酒飲且已經對孩子不當對待的請你們訂立相關的法令或者是要用什麼方法來讓他強制就醫所以請衛福部在研擬討論後回覆我辦公室一個禮拜可以嗎\n\n11:16.631 --> 11:43.325\n報告委員我想我們兒權法裡面會把剛剛你提的這部分加進去可是你兒權法到現在都還是完全沒有辦法也沒有任何修正啊結合民間的社工室然後由主責的政府的社工室一起大家建構一個網絡不要兒童的虐待兒童沒被保護到社工又出眾然後讓現場的崩盤一個禮拜可以嗎可以一個禮拜我們提出這個規劃謝謝\n\n11:47.098 --> 11:47.119\n好,謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.478,"end":22.65,"text":"謝謝主席,有請部長部長請委員早部長早,剛剛大家前面都在講毒品那我這邊也不例外,就是想把兩個主題結合起來"},{"start":23.237,"end":26.379,"text":"首先根據衛福部的2019年到2022年的一個5年的統計觀察我們可以看到我們一些惡虐的樣態裡邊"},{"start":43.969,"end":46.471,"text":"酒飲人數近5年平盤沒有下降藥飲人數反而5年內增長2.5倍"},{"start":54.775,"end":78.254,"text":"那這個統計當然是附選題他有施虐者有可能還有缺乏親自照養的知識甚至互相情緒的特質或親密關係的失調跟經濟因素並不單一可是有沒有去注意到因為過去我在民間在處理兒虐的時候很常就是因為藥酒飲而引發的兒虐事件那再看這些"},{"start":79.155,"end":79.295,"text":"主席"},{"start":109.327,"end":136.989,"text":"在家裡是不是如果有這樣的藥酒飲的話可能會增加衝動跟易怒的暴怒的行為然後呢會讓孩子有更大的風險還有破壞家庭關係因為這種物質使用會讓他對孩子的目不關心然後甚至會出現家庭暴力那就增加孩子被虐的一個風險還有因為藥蠻貴的所以呢這個毒蠻貴的話就會增加大量金錢的使用然後就會導致家庭經濟的困難"},{"start":138.612,"end":138.772,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":156.059,"end":177.139,"text":"風險指標裡邊只要有藥酒飲的都列為是脆家那從剛剛前面的那個美國的藥酒飲對額內的影響當中我們也知道這個指標列是應該的那可是我去問一線社工他們最大的困難是這樣列進來了是脆家沒有問題問題是他要怎麼處理"},{"start":178.871,"end":206.886,"text":"因為這些都是非自願性的家長那他們大部分都是沒有病史感對啊他被列為催家那接下來呢這沒有錯這個事實上是2018年的報告者可是直至今日還是如出一轍的也就是說根本要請他們進到醫院進到行為中心去接受治療這社工界面對到的困難"},{"start":208.561,"end":208.621,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":230.31,"end":253.639,"text":"所以就要來問一下現在的確我們的藥酒飲的家庭的服務可以看到有新建師我們的設救師有各式各種的藥酒飲的個案的服務計畫可是現況是什麼這些計畫都是被動的今天如果他不上門又沒有任何法律強制"},{"start":255.874,"end":274.193,"text":"想問部長你這前端的預防到底是什麼那這兩個單位都是我們衛福部轄下的管理單位如果要等到個案自己上來做我們的介制的話那個案不願意來這就是普遍社工遇到最大困難我們到底要怎麼做部長"},{"start":276.496,"end":304.078,"text":"謝謝委員這麼詳盡的把我們整個相關的議題做這麼清楚的分析那也指出了前端的重要性那前端就是在整個心理健康的一個推展我想這個對整個在藥酒飲方面會有很大的幫助所以在這個部分政府也提出了很多的方案在努力"},{"start":304.923,"end":306.324,"text":"所以這個就是要配合也要跟縣市衛生局合作"},{"start":327.763,"end":354.412,"text":"社工的系統不是有問題才去好像救火員他應該是一個巡查員可是你崔家就已經把他們列為指標說一定要他就是你要關懷對象問題是我們要解決他問題預防說他會不會有惡虐當初為列為這樣的指標之一也是怕他有惡虐的可能性結果他不進去治療的話接受那個戒指的話你根本就是沒有辦法他不接受治療"},{"start":356.817,"end":357.977,"text":"對社工的提供服務,我想他就是一個提供服務"},{"start":382.342,"end":402.917,"text":"我們的確是沒有辦法有這個強制力但如果是提供服務應該是它的進變性跟可及性是要被考慮所以難怪我們的藥酒營還是有額內的問題所以你們自己去看這個就是你們的服務所以我剛剛前面提到說從檢察署的數據來看到每一年大概私用土餅的大概7萬多人可是興建師申請藥酒營"},{"start":405.179,"end":405.299,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":416.786,"end":416.806,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":443.59,"end":468.613,"text":"有數據才能夠去解決問題可是我們自己大概沒有什麼數據所以我們就找到臺灣成癮學會的統計推估臺灣有80人有酒癮的問題可是衛福部大概看這近三年的數據我們的酒癮服務人數雖然有逐年增加可是也只有3000多的家暴加害人我前面問是說你列為這個指標催加可是如果他真的後來動手了看起來似乎"},{"start":470.239,"end":476.221,"text":"新建師及設救師計劃都不是主動等個案自己來上門。第二個是真的有要酒飲的而且已經對孩子不當對待的"},{"start":489.039,"end":489.439,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":502.5,"end":503.08,"text":"有法院去命他做藉酒飲的治療"},{"start":527.783,"end":534.032,"text":"這個我想問市長很清楚有這樣做嗎否則不會社工一直他們現在很辛苦的地方是"},{"start":535.253,"end":535.273,"text":"國務院議員"},{"start":562.327,"end":589.226,"text":"希望國務院不要向交通部、運營所做出來報告好了讓同仁來蓋泡麵2023年國務院就邀請學者在我們的研討會當中分析這幾個國家都有去應對的預防性的政策在執行既然國務院做出來它不是讓你們訴諸高閣而是應該要有更積極的作為那接下來想問的是"},{"start":590.56,"end":619.629,"text":"到底是需求有減少嗎還是問題變好了可是我們沒有看問題變好了可是怎麼是逐年減劣而且2025年對直轄縣市政府各縣市的補助就不見了那藥酒飲家庭的後續追蹤的預算又是一個逐年減劣想問前面我都擔心做不好了社工也一直覺得他沒有辦法在你那邊拿到服務的時候結果現在竟然預算是減劣"},{"start":620.469,"end":622.451,"text":"市長,我剛剛講,如果按"},{"start":641.331,"end":650.271,"text":"你們有沒有主動讓它進到你們體系然後你們就是因為沒有人來然後就檢列可是它問題是還是存在的"},{"start":650.871,"end":675.064,"text":"所以對於藥酒飲家庭的支持服務我主張家庭有錢在藥酒飲個案的話請追蹤列管主動關懷還有對有藥酒飲且已經對孩子不當對待的請你們訂立相關的法令或者是要用什麼方法來讓他強制就醫所以請衛福部在研擬討論後回覆我辦公室一個禮拜可以嗎"},{"start":676.631,"end":703.325,"text":"報告委員我想我們兒權法裡面會把剛剛你提的這部分加進去可是你兒權法到現在都還是完全沒有辦法也沒有任何修正啊結合民間的社工室然後由主責的政府的社工室一起大家建構一個網絡不要兒童的虐待兒童沒被保護到社工又出眾然後讓現場的崩盤一個禮拜可以嗎可以一個禮拜我們提出這個規劃謝謝"},{"start":707.098,"end":707.119,"text":"好,謝謝。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":500,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（9時36分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["邱部長泰源：委員早。"],["林委員月琴：部長早。剛剛大概前面都在講毒品，我也不例外，就是想把毒品跟兒虐兩個主題結合起來，所以今天想來跟部長討論如何進行藥酒癮家庭支持服務，來避免兒虐不斷的發生。首先根據衛福部2019年到2022年共5年的統計觀察，在一些兒虐的樣態裡，酒癮的人數近五年是成平盤，可是沒有下降；藥癮的人數反而是五年內增長了2.5倍，這個統計當然是複選題，施虐者有可能還缺乏親職教養的知識，甚至負向情緒的特質、親密關係失調或經濟因素，並不單一。可是有沒有去注意到，因為過去我在民間處理兒虐的時候，很常都是因為藥酒癮而引發兒虐事件。","再來看藥酒癮的物質使用為什麼會增加兒虐的可能性？2023年美國國家家庭暴力、創傷與心理健康中心也指出，第一個，可能會影響到施虐者的行為，因為酒精跟毒品會影響到人的判斷力，就像剛剛前面兩個委員質詢的，你看內湖的那個案例造成三死兩傷，一樣的，如果他在家裡有這樣的藥酒癮的話，可能會增加衝動跟易怒的暴怒行為，會讓孩子有更大的風險。還有，破壞家庭關係，因為這種物質使用會讓他對孩子漠不關心，甚至出現家庭暴力，那就會增加孩子被虐的風險。還有，因為毒滿貴的，會增加大量金錢的使用，就會導致家庭經濟困難，也會增加生活壓力，同樣的，這樣的家庭暴力跟物質使用就會形成一個惡性循環。","所以的確脆家就會有一個指標，在風險指標裡面，只要有藥酒癮的都列為是脆家。從剛剛前面美國的藥酒癮對兒虐的影響當中，我們也知道列這個指標是應該的，可是我去問一線社工，他們最大的困難是，列進來了是脆家，沒有問題，但問題是他要怎麼處理？因為這些都是非自願性的家長，他們大部分是沒有病識感的。對啊！他被列為脆家，那接下來呢？沒有錯，這個事實上是2018年的報導者，可是時至今日還是如出一轍，也就是說，要請他們進到醫院、進到心衛中心去接受治療，這是社工界面對到的困難。今天委託民間單位或是地方政府自己做，做了又如何？因為做了，他還是沒有辦法解決，他即便一個月去訪一次，知道脆家有這樣狀況，可是重點是沒有辦法解決這個問題。所以社工為什麼留不住？因為當他的案家很多問題是沒辦法解決的時候，當然是留不住人。","所以就要來問一下，現在的確我們對藥酒癮家庭的服務可以看到有心健司、社救司，有各式各樣藥酒癮的個案服務計畫，可是現況是什麼？就是這些計畫都是被動的，今天如果他不上門，因為沒有任何法律強制，想問部長，你這前端的預防到底是什麼？這兩個單位都是衛福部轄下的管理單位，如果要等到個案自己上門做戒治，但個案不願意來，要怎麼辦？這就是普遍社工遇到的最大困難，部長，我們到底要怎麼做？"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員這麼詳盡的把整個相關的議題做這麼清楚的分析，也指出了前端的重要性。前端就是針對心理健康的推展，我想這個對藥酒癮方面會有很大的幫助，所以在這個部分，政府也提出了很多的方案在努力，我想……"],["林委員月琴：對啊，政府在努力，但我現在問的是，他不來啊！醫院我開著，可是病人不上門，而且很重要的是，這個病人又是我們關心的、要他去處理他的藥酒癮問題的人，可是他不進門的話，你要怎麼處理？"],["邱部長泰源：所以這個就是要配合，也要跟縣市衛生局合作，我們社工的系統不是有問題才去介入，這樣好像救火員，他應該要是一個巡查員。"],["林委員月琴：可是你就已經把脆家列為指標，他就是你要關懷的對象，問題是，我們要解決他的問題，預防他會不會有兒虐，當初會把這個列為指標之一，也是怕他有兒虐的可能性，結果他不進去治療、不接受戒治的話，你根本就是沒有辦法……"],["邱部長泰源：就是已經知道他要接受治療，他不去接受治療嘛？"],["林委員月琴：是。"],["張司長秀鴛：跟委員報告，原則上如果他有伴隨家庭暴力或者是兒虐，它的強制力就存在，包括……"],["林委員月琴：司長，剛剛我前面先問的是，如果他被列為脆家，可是他還沒有對孩子動手，我們現在從預防的角度上來看的話，你有什麼方法呢？"],["張司長秀鴛：對於社工的提供服務，我想它就是一個提供服務，我們的確是沒有辦法有強制力，但如果是提供服務，應該它的近便性跟可及性是要被考慮的。"],["林委員月琴：難怪我們的藥酒癮還是有兒虐的問題，所以你自己去看你們的服務，我剛剛前面有提到，從檢察署的數據來看，每一年施用毒品的人數大概是七萬多人，可是心健司申請藥癮治療費用補助人數大概是一萬多人，那就表示如果這五萬多人有孩子在家裡的話，到底他應該要怎麼樣被保護？酒癮也是一樣，為了協助酒精成癮的治療，衛福部有補助法院裁定家暴加害人相關的酒癮治療費用，這是確定已經有家暴的，可是衛福部回答我們辦公室時也說，藥酒癮不是全民健保給付的項目，所以沒有辦法透過資料來掌握數據。我常常都覺得你要有數據才能夠去解決問題，可是我們自己大概沒有什麼數據，所以我們就找到了台灣成癮學會的統計，它推估臺灣約有80萬人有酒癮問題。可是看衛福部近三年的數據，你們的酒癮服務人數雖然有逐年增加，可是也只有三千多名家暴加害人。","我前面問的是，你依照這個指標把他列為脆家，可是如果他後來真的動手了，看起來似乎沒有辦法去解決。所以我要問的是，第一個，脆家有潛在藥酒癮的沒人管，因為心健司跟社救司的計畫都不是主動，而是等個案自己上門。第二個，真的有藥酒癮且已經對孩子不當對待的，可能他還是處在家庭維繫方案的處遇模式的時候，他也不想啊！當他不想戒酒、戒毒，他不覺得自己有問題的時候，你怎麼去處理？因為往往都是不開案服務，所以我想問的是，我們的孩子怎麼被照顧到、被保護到？"],["張司長秀鴛：如果在家庭維繫，他就是列為兒保，當他不願意去接受戒酒癮這樣的處遇計畫時，那就由社工依職權直接聲請保護令，由法院去命他做戒酒癮的治療。"],["林委員月琴：我問司長，要很清楚有這樣的狀況，因為社工現在很辛苦的地方是，案子在手上卻做不了事情，而且坦白講，我們的維繫方案跟國外的不太一樣，人家是一個月內幾乎都在案家，我們事實上是久久才看一次，可是案子是背在社工的身上，所以國外相對於做這樣的事情，事實上是非常完整的。所以我說部長、司長，你們國衛院做的報告要看啦！我們花了這麼多錢在做這個報告，希望國衛院不要像交通部運研所做出來的報告一樣，讓同仁來蓋泡麵啦！2023年國衛院就邀請學者在我們的研討會當中分析，這幾個國家都有應對的預防性政策在執行。既然國衛院做出來了，它不是讓你們束之高閣，而是應該要有更積極的作為。","接下來我想問的是，到底需求有減少嗎？還是問題變好了？我沒有看到問題變好，可是怎麼預算還逐年減列？而且2025年對直轄市政府、各縣市政府的補助就不見了，藥酒癮家庭後續追蹤的預算也是逐年減列。想問，前面我都擔心做不好了，社工也一直覺得他沒有辦法在你那邊拿到服務的時候，結果現在竟然預算還減列！"],["蘇司長昭如：社工司來說明一下，關於我們的藥癮者家庭支持服務計畫，因為主總會根據前一個年度的執行數來調整，所以有微幅的減少，但是我們有一直爭取要再增加，持續在增加中。"],["林委員月琴：所以司長，你們有沒有主動讓他進到你們的體系？你們就是因為沒有人來，所以就減列，可是問題還是存在的。所以對於藥酒癮家庭的支持服務，我主張各家庭有潛在藥酒癮個案的，請追蹤列管、主動關懷，以及有藥酒癮且已經對孩子不當對待的，請你們訂定相關的法令，或者是要用什麼方法來讓他強制就醫，所以請衛福部在研擬討論後回復我辦公室，一個禮拜可以嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，我想兒權法裡面會把剛剛你提的這部分加進去……"],["林委員月琴：可是你們兒權法到現在都還是完全沒有版本，也沒有任何修正啊！"],["邱部長泰源：我們會結合民間的社工師，然後由主責的政府社工師一起大家建構一個網絡……"],["林委員月琴：不要兒童被虐待、兒童沒被保護到，社工又出走，然後讓現場崩盤。"],["邱部長泰源：一個禮拜我們提出這樣的規劃。"],["林委員月琴：好，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林委員、謝謝部長。","接續請陳菁徽委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":104,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-26-5","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","王育敏","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","王正旭","劉建國","羅廷瑋","林淑芬","羅智強","楊瓊瓔","賴士葆","涂權吉","李坤城","洪孟楷","林國成","張雅琳","陳培瑜","郭昱晴","徐富癸","楊曜","葉元之","黃秀芳","陳瑩","盧縣一"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1138901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、法務部、內政部、財政部、教育部列席就「有關新興煙毒品防制及強化虐\n童防治作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138901_00001"}}}