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00:00:35,447\n謝謝你不過我還是要回饋一下剛剛你提到的也是孟凱講的這個有關於這個網路成癮的事實上我是學認知心理學的我當然可以鼓勵你去做這樣的研究不過我還是最終一個部分裡面來說根據兩個孩子的媽也接觸這麼多年輕學子說實在的手機3C產品最能夠對抗的\n\n3\n00:00:53,075 --> 00:01:12,830\n就是現實的人如果現實的人有趣好玩其實那才是最重要的你不覺得這是才是個事實嗎所以人不有趣的話永遠老師就跟家長就只問他考試如何如何你再好的一個3C把它放到線上等等之類的都沒有辦法抵擋這才是讓人變得有趣變得好玩才是有辦法抵擋整個3C對我們文化上面的一個衝擊好我們來看一下部長你知道這個周杰倫還沒有開唱他的這個黃牛票喊到多少嗎\n\n4\n00:01:23,458 --> 00:01:23,698\n李遠列席報告\n\n5\n00:01:44,983 --> 00:01:51,408\n今天第一個就是要問你有關黃牛票的這個部分說實在的你認為目前來說即使你們修的法你覺得可以打敗黃牛嗎你目前來自你們的檢舉成案和採取的這個數字部長你有掌握嗎\n\n6\n00:02:21,447 --> 00:02:27,629\n是因為刑事局警方也說光是抓詐騙就已經分身乏術了還抓到你黃牛所以你看看嘛家教轉秀目前來說這檢舉的部分是達到2100但是不正的方法必須用這個機器人等等這些方式說實在的很難抓得到即使呢你們過去社會法當然很離譜啊不到兩萬但是你們現在說的文創法\n\n7\n00:03:01,687 --> 00:03:02,107\n我們其實用各種方式\n\n8\n00:03:28,857 --> 00:03:56,273\n我告訴你這個東西還是沒有辦法因為現在有太多人問我這些票到底是如何所以呢違反這個文創法移送的案件非常的少部長你知道到目前為止有多少嗎不曉得欸10件不到所以說嘛你說這重罰有什麼用說到重罰又沒有辦法達得到我記得我們才罰了75件欸沒有你現在成案75件大概罰了529萬這樣子但是這個部分我就跟你講嘛BLACKPINK就可以賺到2000多萬你現在只有300萬\n\n9\n00:03:58,774 --> 00:04:15,939\n來罰款的話是完全沒有辦法的所以我告訴你這個然後你剛又承認文化部的確是人數各方面是沒有辦法而且那時候你制定的時候呢還是非常的一個鼓勵性質非強制性質所以目前為止有多少單位跟你申請這樣子一個補助因為你們那時候獎勵嘛你知道有多少單位嗎\n\n10\n00:04:18,840 --> 00:04:22,465\n你說補助什麼沒有啊就是你當初的補助要點啊你這樣是補助嘛你演唱會的實名制嘛你認為實名制我們認為實名制是惡者的方法但是呢你會發現有多少人跟你來補助你以為那是獎勵嗎不是獎勵大家不願意啊對啊不願意嘛為什麼你看下面嘛\n\n11\n00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:50,009\n太難了嘛人力時間金錢嘛而且你看要光是要兩三個小時而且你要購入好幾萬的這樣機台所以這個部分是很難去說服你這個主辦購票單位裡面來去做這樣的處理所以我想因為我時間有限我還是請部長你可以參考一下其他國家的日本的抽選制韓國的統一票價還有美國的一些方法這些都是提供大家來做參考否則我們逛市去抓真的是抓不勝抓好不好這是部長你可以來提醒的\n\n12\n00:05:04,358 --> 00:05:24,210\n第二個我們來看看文化會最被詬病的就是應該說不是最被詬病就是大家希望我們得到的補助是公平的是非常公平的這個部長你以前在申請這些所謂製作經費的時候你當然也希望政府能夠給我們更多的一個獎勵嘛你自己知道那這個部分是現在進行式就是臨日攻擊它耗資的2.3億而且呢文化部補助了7000多國發會所以合計補助的1.13億\n\n13\n00:05:31,974 --> 00:05:43,419\n那為什麼會被大家詬病的緣故呢你看看因為這個公司說實在的那時候大家問到你的時候你說我們不會出錢來拍一個這個中共打台灣的這樣影視作品這是部長你所提到的吧對不對\n\n14\n00:05:44,404 --> 00:05:49,348\n對我我絕對是承認這個話是我講的對但是呢我覺得大家影視卻卻想要知道的就是這個公司裡面到底拿了多少拿了政府這麼多錢他的民間資金到底多少他預計要花2點多億來你們已經補足了1.14億那剩下1點多億你覺得民間公司的資金到位了嗎\n\n15\n00:06:04,228 --> 00:06:31,561\n請給我一點時間解釋我們這次大概有11部像這樣子的案子通過大概都是要規定是要1億以上的資金離日供給是其中投資最高的一部但是我們是獎勵比例最低的一部但是部長我先打斷你因為我知道你要講什麼我覺得都已經做過study了你用比例來說不是最高但是他金額絕對是第二高但是2.3億裡面他從民間大概要再找1億多\n\n16\n00:06:32,261 --> 00:06:35,723\n他到位了嗎?其實我跟委員報告我在乎的是他找了誰來當導演誰來當演員然後最後拍得好不好\n\n17\n00:06:48,750 --> 00:07:10,764\n對部長這是我要跟你討論的明年5月才會上映如果它裡面有講了非常多我們到底發生這個問題的時候該怎麼辦我更擔心它裡面如果有非常多的影射而且剛剛面臨地方選舉它這個影射哪一些的政黨哪一些的人不愛台不做什麼你知道我可不想文化部補助的錢到時候來做個大內宣改給人民洗腦這對我們來說是\n\n18\n00:07:13,025 --> 00:07:20,928\n陳重負擔好不好部長我也同意內容的品質很重要但是我還要直指這樣的公司說實在的才做120萬然後呢這樣的一個一個公司製作單位可以引發這麼多人來支柱你知道羨慕死多少的這個所謂真的是很想派出好作品的\n\n19\n00:07:32,532 --> 00:07:59,766\n他們要送出來省又省然後退回然後再修正這樣的一個公司可以獲得國家這麼多的補助部長如果拍得好沒有問題但是我還是強調就像你在乎裡面的內容不要拿我們人民納稅的錢然後來做很多不適合的影射然後呢最重要的是給其他很想被關切的眼神的那些製作單位讓他們知道文化部的補助是可以接受檢驗是可以公平的\n\n20\n00:07:59,906 --> 00:08:20,220\n委員讓我講一句話好不好可以我再任不到一個月我就把這11組拿到我們文化部前的11組人找來一組一組的問他們資金還缺多少要我們幫忙什麼所以我完全完全公平連任公職是誰當導演我都不知道因為我很放心\n\n21\n00:08:21,081 --> 00:08:27,884\n我根本不在乎他誰當導演因為他拍10段故事好了部長我提醒你啦你雖然是講信誓旦旦我還是提醒你我們還是金鐘獎的得獎組還是有非常多影劇的人脈啦我告訴你每期自製費2000多萬但是很多的劇組只能到七八百萬部長請你重視這個問題還有\n\n22\n00:08:39,549 --> 00:08:43,073\n當你好稱每集製作2000多萬劇組拿到七八萬的時候你要去查一千多萬到哪裡去了這是一個非常重要的好不好我提醒這樣的部分部長好好地監督這樣的一個做法接下來因為時間的關係我們來看看你剛提到的出版業\n\n23\n00:08:55,484 --> 00:08:59,228\n我認為小野出版的100本作品應該跟出版業的距離應該是相當的接近的好不好特別你說那是一個文化盛衰的關鍵指標我完全同意但是部長你這邊所條列的很多的方式我也認同40%留住的出版業你也認為要強化國際的輸出對不對來我們來看數據會說話\n\n24\n00:09:17,265 --> 00:09:24,531\n事實上你會看得出來從這個數據裏面你看外銷並沒有成長我們2019年是34億最多的我們到2022年的時候33億算是打平所以表示我們的出版業的外銷的政策上面目前為止我還看不到不像韓國不管是書籍還是IP授權他們是請全國之力再去做而且外銷有沒有辦法拓展對不起2019年最高峰是102億1000多億\n\n25\n00:09:42,907 --> 00:09:49,790\n到目前為止我們還是沒有辦法突破而且我們的出版業真的很辛苦我們來看一下你看我們現在小型的出版業幾乎在不滿300萬幾乎在一半47%就是不到300萬的這樣的資本額所以他們越經營越辛苦我個人非常喜歡獨立書店可是目前來說他們幾乎沒有生存的空間我想部長應該很清楚再往下來看因為時間的關係所以你看我先告訴你好了獨立書店絕對是撿\n\n26\n00:10:11,121 --> 00:10:15,325\n而且呢你像電子書你說我們電子書你剛剛信誓旦旦捐你覺得電子書做得很好但是目前只被壓迫到只有12塊錢權利金這麼低誰要給好作品再往下看我只要一分鐘就好了你看你說的借頁是不是400萬次這部長覺得很棒\n\n27\n00:10:28,576 --> 00:10:57,187\n但是呢你要知道平台賺3塊出版社賺9塊分給多少給作者我們還不知道然後呢你看看我們版權目前為止大概是3600萬但是你知道我們出版社有四五千啊我們退一萬不想我算一千一千家來看好了一家才分到三萬六你覺得這告訴我你這是完全文化指標嗎這是出版業的生態有誰可以活得下去啊部長這是我們出版社的一個非常大的問題這個了解我會跟這個人文出版師我們再重新討論\n\n28\n00:10:58,107 --> 00:11:23,403\n你不足以讓你對一個出版一百本書的小影國家我也是受害者啦我後來都拿不到版稅了然後也沒人要借我的書對我受害所以我蠻了解的所以你很感同身受所以我與眾心長出版社對你多少的期望因為你是出過一百本的你要給這些小出版社一個空間否則就是大者恆大小者全部都非常小了\n\n29\n00:11:23,783 --> 00:11:28,547\n我們真的很不希望到時候你們開價格很低還是只有開12塊你們給他更高的錢好不好15塊16塊起碼給這些人有辦法有一半要撐下去否則我真的不想讓他們失望充滿無力感然後最後熄燈關門走人而且是在一個出版100本書的這樣子的小野大作家的名下這個對你來說何其\n\n30\n00:11:48,505 --> 00:11:54,593\n這是金鐘獎主持人對於我們這樣的部分裏面對你的宇宙心腸的說法可不可以部長可以謝謝謝謝好謝謝柯志恩委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2530\t29304\t謝謝,我們請小野部長。好,我們有請李部長。部長好。好,剛剛因為Ending在金鐘獎,我是金鐘獎第23屆的最佳節目主持人。是,恭喜你。謝謝,恭喜,過去的歷史了。所以我那時候在拿金鐘獎的時候我從來沒想過我們到底要跟誰來競爭,因為那個時候的金鐘獎所得到的至高無上的榮譽就代表我們的影視文化的確是被推到最高峰。\n30805\t35447\t謝謝你不過我還是要回饋一下剛剛你提到的也是孟凱講的這個有關於這個網路成癮的事實上我是學認知心理學的我當然可以鼓勵你去做這樣的研究不過我還是最終一個部分裡面來說根據兩個孩子的媽也接觸這麼多年輕學子說實在的手機3C產品最能夠對抗的\n53075\t72830\t就是現實的人如果現實的人有趣好玩其實那才是最重要的你不覺得這是才是個事實嗎所以人不有趣的話永遠老師就跟家長就只問他考試如何如何你再好的一個3C把它放到線上等等之類的都沒有辦法抵擋這才是讓人變得有趣變得好玩才是有辦法抵擋整個3C對我們文化上面的一個衝擊好我們來看一下部長你知道這個周杰倫還沒有開唱他的這個黃牛票喊到多少嗎\n83458\t83698\t李遠列席報告\n104983\t111408\t今天第一個就是要問你有關黃牛票的這個部分說實在的你認為目前來說即使你們修的法你覺得可以打敗黃牛嗎你目前來自你們的檢舉成案和採取的這個數字部長你有掌握嗎\n120077\t141067\t對﹖\n141447\t147629\t是因為刑事局警方也說光是抓詐騙就已經分身乏術了還抓到你黃牛所以你看看嘛家教轉秀目前來說這檢舉的部分是達到2100但是不正的方法必須用這個機器人等等這些方式說實在的很難抓得到即使呢你們過去社會法當然很離譜啊不到兩萬但是你們現在說的文創法\n165794\t181527\t﹖\n181687\t182107\t我們其實用各種方式\n208857\t236273\t我告訴你這個東西還是沒有辦法因為現在有太多人問我這些票到底是如何所以呢違反這個文創法移送的案件非常的少部長你知道到目前為止有多少嗎不曉得欸10件不到所以說嘛你說這重罰有什麼用說到重罰又沒有辦法達得到我記得我們才罰了75件欸沒有你現在成案75件大概罰了529萬這樣子但是這個部分我就跟你講嘛BLACKPINK就可以賺到2000多萬你現在只有300萬\n238774\t255939\t來罰款的話是完全沒有辦法的所以我告訴你這個然後你剛又承認文化部的確是人數各方面是沒有辦法而且那時候你制定的時候呢還是非常的一個鼓勵性質非強制性質所以目前為止有多少單位跟你申請這樣子一個補助因為你們那時候獎勵嘛你知道有多少單位嗎\n258840\t262465\t你說補助什麼沒有啊就是你當初的補助要點啊你這樣是補助嘛你演唱會的實名制嘛你認為實名制我們認為實名制是惡者的方法但是呢你會發現有多少人跟你來補助你以為那是獎勵嗎不是獎勵大家不願意啊對啊不願意嘛為什麼你看下面嘛\n274600\t290009\t太難了嘛人力時間金錢嘛而且你看要光是要兩三個小時而且你要購入好幾萬的這樣機台所以這個部分是很難去說服你這個主辦購票單位裡面來去做這樣的處理所以我想因為我時間有限我還是請部長你可以參考一下其他國家的日本的抽選制韓國的統一票價還有美國的一些方法這些都是提供大家來做參考否則我們逛市去抓真的是抓不勝抓好不好這是部長你可以來提醒的\n304358\t324210\t第二個我們來看看文化會最被詬病的就是應該說不是最被詬病就是大家希望我們得到的補助是公平的是非常公平的這個部長你以前在申請這些所謂製作經費的時候你當然也希望政府能夠給我們更多的一個獎勵嘛你自己知道那這個部分是現在進行式就是臨日攻擊它耗資的2.3億而且呢文化部補助了7000多國發會所以合計補助的1.13億\n331974\t343419\t那為什麼會被大家詬病的緣故呢你看看因為這個公司說實在的那時候大家問到你的時候你說我們不會出錢來拍一個這個中共打台灣的這樣影視作品這是部長你所提到的吧對不對\n344404\t349348\t對我我絕對是承認這個話是我講的對但是呢我覺得大家影視卻卻想要知道的就是這個公司裡面到底拿了多少拿了政府這麼多錢他的民間資金到底多少他預計要花2點多億來你們已經補足了1.14億那剩下1點多億你覺得民間公司的資金到位了嗎\n364228\t391561\t請給我一點時間解釋我們這次大概有11部像這樣子的案子通過大概都是要規定是要1億以上的資金離日供給是其中投資最高的一部但是我們是獎勵比例最低的一部但是部長我先打斷你因為我知道你要講什麼我覺得都已經做過study了你用比例來說不是最高但是他金額絕對是第二高但是2.3億裡面他從民間大概要再找1億多\n392261\t395723\t他到位了嗎?其實我跟委員報告 我在乎的是他找了誰來當導演誰來當演員 然後最後拍得好不好\n408750\t430764\t對部長這是我要跟你討論的明年5月才會上映如果它裡面有講了非常多我們到底發生這個問題的時候該怎麼辦我更擔心它裡面如果有非常多的影射而且剛剛面臨地方選舉它這個影射哪一些的政黨哪一些的人不愛台不做什麼你知道我可不想文化部補助的錢到時候來做個大內宣改給人民洗腦這對我們來說是\n433025\t440928\t陳重負擔好不好部長我也同意內容的品質很重要但是我還要直指這樣的公司說實在的才做120萬然後呢這樣的一個一個公司製作單位可以引發這麼多人來支柱你知道羨慕死多少的這個所謂真的是很想派出好作品的\n452532\t479766\t他們要送出來省又省然後退回然後再修正這樣的一個公司可以獲得國家這麼多的補助部長如果拍得好沒有問題但是我還是強調就像你在乎裡面的內容不要拿我們人民納稅的錢然後來做很多不適合的影射然後呢最重要的是給其他很想被關切的眼神的那些製作單位讓他們知道文化部的補助是可以接受檢驗是可以公平的\n479906\t500220\t委員讓我講一句話好不好可以我再任不到一個月我就把這11組拿到我們文化部前的11組人找來一組一組的問他們資金還缺多少要我們幫忙什麼所以我完全完全公平連任公職是誰當導演我都不知道因為我很放心\n501081\t507884\t我根本不在乎他誰當導演因為他拍10段故事好了部長我提醒你啦你雖然是講信誓旦旦我還是提醒你我們還是金鐘獎的得獎組還是有非常多影劇的人脈啦我告訴你每期自製費2000多萬但是很多的劇組只能到七八百萬部長請你重視這個問題還有\n519549\t523073\t當你好稱每集製作2000多萬劇組拿到七八萬的時候你要去查一千多萬到哪裡去了這是一個非常重要的好不好我提醒這樣的部分部長好好地監督這樣的一個做法接下來因為時間的關係我們來看看你剛提到的出版業\n535484\t539228\t我認為小野出版的100本作品應該跟出版業的距離應該是相當的接近的好不好特別你說那是一個文化盛衰的關鍵指標我完全同意但是部長你這邊所條列的很多的方式我也認同40%留住的出版業你也認為要強化國際的輸出對不對來我們來看數據會說話\n557265\t564531\t事實上你會看得出來從這個數據裏面你看外銷並沒有成長我們2019年是34億最多的我們到2022年的時候33億算是打平所以表示我們的出版業的外銷的政策上面目前為止我還看不到不像韓國不管是書籍還是IP授權他們是請全國之力再去做而且外銷有沒有辦法拓展對不起2019年最高峰是102億1000多億\n582907\t589790\t到目前為止我們還是沒有辦法突破而且我們的出版業真的很辛苦我們來看一下你看我們現在小型的出版業幾乎在不滿300萬幾乎在一半47%就是不到300萬的這樣的資本額所以他們越經營越辛苦我個人非常喜歡獨立書店可是目前來說他們幾乎沒有生存的空間我想部長應該很清楚再往下來看因為時間的關係所以你看我先告訴你好了獨立書店絕對是撿\n611121\t615325\t而且呢你像電子書你說我們電子書你剛剛信誓旦旦捐你覺得電子書做得很好但是目前只被壓迫到只有12塊錢權利金這麼低誰要給好作品再往下看我只要一分鐘就好了你看你說的借頁是不是400萬次這部長覺得很棒\n628576\t657187\t但是呢你要知道平台賺3塊出版社賺9塊分給多少給作者我們還不知道然後呢你看看我們版權目前為止大概是3600萬但是你知道我們出版社有四五千啊我們退一萬不想我算一千一千家來看好了一家才分到三萬六你覺得這告訴我你這是完全文化指標嗎這是出版業的生態有誰可以活得下去啊部長這是我們出版社的一個非常大的問題這個了解我會跟這個人文出版師我們再重新討論\n658107\t683403\t你不足以讓你對一個出版一百本書的小影國家我也是受害者啦我後來都拿不到版稅了然後也沒人要借我的書對我受害所以我蠻了解的所以你很感同身受所以我與眾心長出版社對你多少的期望因為你是出過一百本的你要給這些小出版社一個空間否則就是大者恆大小者全部都非常小了\n683783\t688547\t我們真的很不希望到時候你們開價格很低還是只有開12塊你們給他更高的錢好不好15塊16塊起碼給這些人有辦法有一半要撐下去否則我真的不想讓他們失望充滿無力感然後最後熄燈關門走人而且是在一個出版100本書的這樣子的小野大作家的名下這個對你來說何其\n708505\t714593\t這是金鐘獎主持人對於我們這樣的部分裏面對你的宇宙心腸的說法可不可以部長可以謝謝謝謝好謝謝柯志恩委員\n","txt":"謝謝,我們請小野部長。好,我們有請李部長。部長好。好,剛剛因為Ending在金鐘獎,我是金鐘獎第23屆的最佳節目主持人。是,恭喜你。謝謝,恭喜,過去的歷史了。所以我那時候在拿金鐘獎的時候我從來沒想過我們到底要跟誰來競爭,因為那個時候的金鐘獎所得到的至高無上的榮譽就代表我們的影視文化的確是被推到最高峰。\n謝謝你不過我還是要回饋一下剛剛你提到的也是孟凱講的這個有關於這個網路成癮的事實上我是學認知心理學的我當然可以鼓勵你去做這樣的研究不過我還是最終一個部分裡面來說根據兩個孩子的媽也接觸這麼多年輕學子說實在的手機3C產品最能夠對抗的\n就是現實的人如果現實的人有趣好玩其實那才是最重要的你不覺得這是才是個事實嗎所以人不有趣的話永遠老師就跟家長就只問他考試如何如何你再好的一個3C把它放到線上等等之類的都沒有辦法抵擋這才是讓人變得有趣變得好玩才是有辦法抵擋整個3C對我們文化上面的一個衝擊好我們來看一下部長你知道這個周杰倫還沒有開唱他的這個黃牛票喊到多少嗎\n李遠列席報告\n今天第一個就是要問你有關黃牛票的這個部分說實在的你認為目前來說即使你們修的法你覺得可以打敗黃牛嗎你目前來自你們的檢舉成案和採取的這個數字部長你有掌握嗎\n對﹖\n是因為刑事局警方也說光是抓詐騙就已經分身乏術了還抓到你黃牛所以你看看嘛家教轉秀目前來說這檢舉的部分是達到2100但是不正的方法必須用這個機器人等等這些方式說實在的很難抓得到即使呢你們過去社會法當然很離譜啊不到兩萬但是你們現在說的文創法\n﹖\n我們其實用各種方式\n我告訴你這個東西還是沒有辦法因為現在有太多人問我這些票到底是如何所以呢違反這個文創法移送的案件非常的少部長你知道到目前為止有多少嗎不曉得欸10件不到所以說嘛你說這重罰有什麼用說到重罰又沒有辦法達得到我記得我們才罰了75件欸沒有你現在成案75件大概罰了529萬這樣子但是這個部分我就跟你講嘛BLACKPINK就可以賺到2000多萬你現在只有300萬\n來罰款的話是完全沒有辦法的所以我告訴你這個然後你剛又承認文化部的確是人數各方面是沒有辦法而且那時候你制定的時候呢還是非常的一個鼓勵性質非強制性質所以目前為止有多少單位跟你申請這樣子一個補助因為你們那時候獎勵嘛你知道有多少單位嗎\n你說補助什麼沒有啊就是你當初的補助要點啊你這樣是補助嘛你演唱會的實名制嘛你認為實名制我們認為實名制是惡者的方法但是呢你會發現有多少人跟你來補助你以為那是獎勵嗎不是獎勵大家不願意啊對啊不願意嘛為什麼你看下面嘛\n太難了嘛人力時間金錢嘛而且你看要光是要兩三個小時而且你要購入好幾萬的這樣機台所以這個部分是很難去說服你這個主辦購票單位裡面來去做這樣的處理所以我想因為我時間有限我還是請部長你可以參考一下其他國家的日本的抽選制韓國的統一票價還有美國的一些方法這些都是提供大家來做參考否則我們逛市去抓真的是抓不勝抓好不好這是部長你可以來提醒的\n第二個我們來看看文化會最被詬病的就是應該說不是最被詬病就是大家希望我們得到的補助是公平的是非常公平的這個部長你以前在申請這些所謂製作經費的時候你當然也希望政府能夠給我們更多的一個獎勵嘛你自己知道那這個部分是現在進行式就是臨日攻擊它耗資的2.3億而且呢文化部補助了7000多國發會所以合計補助的1.13億\n那為什麼會被大家詬病的緣故呢你看看因為這個公司說實在的那時候大家問到你的時候你說我們不會出錢來拍一個這個中共打台灣的這樣影視作品這是部長你所提到的吧對不對\n對我我絕對是承認這個話是我講的對但是呢我覺得大家影視卻卻想要知道的就是這個公司裡面到底拿了多少拿了政府這麼多錢他的民間資金到底多少他預計要花2點多億來你們已經補足了1.14億那剩下1點多億你覺得民間公司的資金到位了嗎\n請給我一點時間解釋我們這次大概有11部像這樣子的案子通過大概都是要規定是要1億以上的資金離日供給是其中投資最高的一部但是我們是獎勵比例最低的一部但是部長我先打斷你因為我知道你要講什麼我覺得都已經做過study了你用比例來說不是最高但是他金額絕對是第二高但是2.3億裡面他從民間大概要再找1億多\n他到位了嗎?其實我跟委員報告 我在乎的是他找了誰來當導演誰來當演員 然後最後拍得好不好\n對部長這是我要跟你討論的明年5月才會上映如果它裡面有講了非常多我們到底發生這個問題的時候該怎麼辦我更擔心它裡面如果有非常多的影射而且剛剛面臨地方選舉它這個影射哪一些的政黨哪一些的人不愛台不做什麼你知道我可不想文化部補助的錢到時候來做個大內宣改給人民洗腦這對我們來說是\n陳重負擔好不好部長我也同意內容的品質很重要但是我還要直指這樣的公司說實在的才做120萬然後呢這樣的一個一個公司製作單位可以引發這麼多人來支柱你知道羨慕死多少的這個所謂真的是很想派出好作品的\n他們要送出來省又省然後退回然後再修正這樣的一個公司可以獲得國家這麼多的補助部長如果拍得好沒有問題但是我還是強調就像你在乎裡面的內容不要拿我們人民納稅的錢然後來做很多不適合的影射然後呢最重要的是給其他很想被關切的眼神的那些製作單位讓他們知道文化部的補助是可以接受檢驗是可以公平的\n委員讓我講一句話好不好可以我再任不到一個月我就把這11組拿到我們文化部前的11組人找來一組一組的問他們資金還缺多少要我們幫忙什麼所以我完全完全公平連任公職是誰當導演我都不知道因為我很放心\n我根本不在乎他誰當導演因為他拍10段故事好了部長我提醒你啦你雖然是講信誓旦旦我還是提醒你我們還是金鐘獎的得獎組還是有非常多影劇的人脈啦我告訴你每期自製費2000多萬但是很多的劇組只能到七八百萬部長請你重視這個問題還有\n當你好稱每集製作2000多萬劇組拿到七八萬的時候你要去查一千多萬到哪裡去了這是一個非常重要的好不好我提醒這樣的部分部長好好地監督這樣的一個做法接下來因為時間的關係我們來看看你剛提到的出版業\n我認為小野出版的100本作品應該跟出版業的距離應該是相當的接近的好不好特別你說那是一個文化盛衰的關鍵指標我完全同意但是部長你這邊所條列的很多的方式我也認同40%留住的出版業你也認為要強化國際的輸出對不對來我們來看數據會說話\n事實上你會看得出來從這個數據裏面你看外銷並沒有成長我們2019年是34億最多的我們到2022年的時候33億算是打平所以表示我們的出版業的外銷的政策上面目前為止我還看不到不像韓國不管是書籍還是IP授權他們是請全國之力再去做而且外銷有沒有辦法拓展對不起2019年最高峰是102億1000多億\n到目前為止我們還是沒有辦法突破而且我們的出版業真的很辛苦我們來看一下你看我們現在小型的出版業幾乎在不滿300萬幾乎在一半47%就是不到300萬的這樣的資本額所以他們越經營越辛苦我個人非常喜歡獨立書店可是目前來說他們幾乎沒有生存的空間我想部長應該很清楚再往下來看因為時間的關係所以你看我先告訴你好了獨立書店絕對是撿\n而且呢你像電子書你說我們電子書你剛剛信誓旦旦捐你覺得電子書做得很好但是目前只被壓迫到只有12塊錢權利金這麼低誰要給好作品再往下看我只要一分鐘就好了你看你說的借頁是不是400萬次這部長覺得很棒\n但是呢你要知道平台賺3塊出版社賺9塊分給多少給作者我們還不知道然後呢你看看我們版權目前為止大概是3600萬但是你知道我們出版社有四五千啊我們退一萬不想我算一千一千家來看好了一家才分到三萬六你覺得這告訴我你這是完全文化指標嗎這是出版業的生態有誰可以活得下去啊部長這是我們出版社的一個非常大的問題這個了解我會跟這個人文出版師我們再重新討論\n你不足以讓你對一個出版一百本書的小影國家我也是受害者啦我後來都拿不到版稅了然後也沒人要借我的書對我受害所以我蠻了解的所以你很感同身受所以我與眾心長出版社對你多少的期望因為你是出過一百本的你要給這些小出版社一個空間否則就是大者恆大小者全部都非常小了\n我們真的很不希望到時候你們開價格很低還是只有開12塊你們給他更高的錢好不好15塊16塊起碼給這些人有辦法有一半要撐下去否則我真的不想讓他們失望充滿無力感然後最後熄燈關門走人而且是在一個出版100本書的這樣子的小野大作家的名下這個對你來說何其\n這是金鐘獎主持人對於我們這樣的部分裏面對你的宇宙心腸的說法可不可以部長可以謝謝謝謝好謝謝柯志恩委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.530 --> 00:29.304\n謝謝,我們請小野部長。好,我們有請李部長。部長好。好,剛剛因為Ending在金鐘獎,我是金鐘獎第23屆的最佳節目主持人。是,恭喜你。謝謝,恭喜,過去的歷史了。所以我那時候在拿金鐘獎的時候我從來沒想過我們到底要跟誰來競爭,因為那個時候的金鐘獎所得到的至高無上的榮譽就代表我們的影視文化的確是被推到最高峰。\n\n00:30.805 --> 00:35.447\n謝謝你不過我還是要回饋一下剛剛你提到的也是孟凱講的這個有關於這個網路成癮的事實上我是學認知心理學的我當然可以鼓勵你去做這樣的研究不過我還是最終一個部分裡面來說根據兩個孩子的媽也接觸這麼多年輕學子說實在的手機3C產品最能夠對抗的\n\n00:53.075 --> 01:12.830\n就是現實的人如果現實的人有趣好玩其實那才是最重要的你不覺得這是才是個事實嗎所以人不有趣的話永遠老師就跟家長就只問他考試如何如何你再好的一個3C把它放到線上等等之類的都沒有辦法抵擋這才是讓人變得有趣變得好玩才是有辦法抵擋整個3C對我們文化上面的一個衝擊好我們來看一下部長你知道這個周杰倫還沒有開唱他的這個黃牛票喊到多少嗎\n\n01:23.458 --> 01:23.698\n李遠列席報告\n\n01:44.983 --> 01:51.408\n今天第一個就是要問你有關黃牛票的這個部分說實在的你認為目前來說即使你們修的法你覺得可以打敗黃牛嗎你目前來自你們的檢舉成案和採取的這個數字部長你有掌握嗎\n\n02:21.447 --> 02:27.629\n是因為刑事局警方也說光是抓詐騙就已經分身乏術了還抓到你黃牛所以你看看嘛家教轉秀目前來說這檢舉的部分是達到2100但是不正的方法必須用這個機器人等等這些方式說實在的很難抓得到即使呢你們過去社會法當然很離譜啊不到兩萬但是你們現在說的文創法\n\n03:01.687 --> 03:02.107\n我們其實用各種方式\n\n03:28.857 --> 03:56.273\n我告訴你這個東西還是沒有辦法因為現在有太多人問我這些票到底是如何所以呢違反這個文創法移送的案件非常的少部長你知道到目前為止有多少嗎不曉得欸10件不到所以說嘛你說這重罰有什麼用說到重罰又沒有辦法達得到我記得我們才罰了75件欸沒有你現在成案75件大概罰了529萬這樣子但是這個部分我就跟你講嘛BLACKPINK就可以賺到2000多萬你現在只有300萬\n\n03:58.774 --> 04:15.939\n來罰款的話是完全沒有辦法的所以我告訴你這個然後你剛又承認文化部的確是人數各方面是沒有辦法而且那時候你制定的時候呢還是非常的一個鼓勵性質非強制性質所以目前為止有多少單位跟你申請這樣子一個補助因為你們那時候獎勵嘛你知道有多少單位嗎\n\n04:18.840 --> 04:22.465\n你說補助什麼沒有啊就是你當初的補助要點啊你這樣是補助嘛你演唱會的實名制嘛你認為實名制我們認為實名制是惡者的方法但是呢你會發現有多少人跟你來補助你以為那是獎勵嗎不是獎勵大家不願意啊對啊不願意嘛為什麼你看下面嘛\n\n04:34.600 --> 04:50.009\n太難了嘛人力時間金錢嘛而且你看要光是要兩三個小時而且你要購入好幾萬的這樣機台所以這個部分是很難去說服你這個主辦購票單位裡面來去做這樣的處理所以我想因為我時間有限我還是請部長你可以參考一下其他國家的日本的抽選制韓國的統一票價還有美國的一些方法這些都是提供大家來做參考否則我們逛市去抓真的是抓不勝抓好不好這是部長你可以來提醒的\n\n05:04.358 --> 05:24.210\n第二個我們來看看文化會最被詬病的就是應該說不是最被詬病就是大家希望我們得到的補助是公平的是非常公平的這個部長你以前在申請這些所謂製作經費的時候你當然也希望政府能夠給我們更多的一個獎勵嘛你自己知道那這個部分是現在進行式就是臨日攻擊它耗資的2.3億而且呢文化部補助了7000多國發會所以合計補助的1.13億\n\n05:31.974 --> 05:43.419\n那為什麼會被大家詬病的緣故呢你看看因為這個公司說實在的那時候大家問到你的時候你說我們不會出錢來拍一個這個中共打台灣的這樣影視作品這是部長你所提到的吧對不對\n\n05:44.404 --> 05:49.348\n對我我絕對是承認這個話是我講的對但是呢我覺得大家影視卻卻想要知道的就是這個公司裡面到底拿了多少拿了政府這麼多錢他的民間資金到底多少他預計要花2點多億來你們已經補足了1.14億那剩下1點多億你覺得民間公司的資金到位了嗎\n\n06:04.228 --> 06:31.561\n請給我一點時間解釋我們這次大概有11部像這樣子的案子通過大概都是要規定是要1億以上的資金離日供給是其中投資最高的一部但是我們是獎勵比例最低的一部但是部長我先打斷你因為我知道你要講什麼我覺得都已經做過study了你用比例來說不是最高但是他金額絕對是第二高但是2.3億裡面他從民間大概要再找1億多\n\n06:32.261 --> 06:35.723\n他到位了嗎?其實我跟委員報告我在乎的是他找了誰來當導演誰來當演員然後最後拍得好不好\n\n06:48.750 --> 07:10.764\n對部長這是我要跟你討論的明年5月才會上映如果它裡面有講了非常多我們到底發生這個問題的時候該怎麼辦我更擔心它裡面如果有非常多的影射而且剛剛面臨地方選舉它這個影射哪一些的政黨哪一些的人不愛台不做什麼你知道我可不想文化部補助的錢到時候來做個大內宣改給人民洗腦這對我們來說是\n\n07:13.025 --> 07:20.928\n陳重負擔好不好部長我也同意內容的品質很重要但是我還要直指這樣的公司說實在的才做120萬然後呢這樣的一個一個公司製作單位可以引發這麼多人來支柱你知道羨慕死多少的這個所謂真的是很想派出好作品的\n\n07:32.532 --> 07:59.766\n他們要送出來省又省然後退回然後再修正這樣的一個公司可以獲得國家這麼多的補助部長如果拍得好沒有問題但是我還是強調就像你在乎裡面的內容不要拿我們人民納稅的錢然後來做很多不適合的影射然後呢最重要的是給其他很想被關切的眼神的那些製作單位讓他們知道文化部的補助是可以接受檢驗是可以公平的\n\n07:59.906 --> 08:20.220\n委員讓我講一句話好不好可以我再任不到一個月我就把這11組拿到我們文化部前的11組人找來一組一組的問他們資金還缺多少要我們幫忙什麼所以我完全完全公平連任公職是誰當導演我都不知道因為我很放心\n\n08:21.081 --> 08:27.884\n我根本不在乎他誰當導演因為他拍10段故事好了部長我提醒你啦你雖然是講信誓旦旦我還是提醒你我們還是金鐘獎的得獎組還是有非常多影劇的人脈啦我告訴你每期自製費2000多萬但是很多的劇組只能到七八百萬部長請你重視這個問題還有\n\n08:39.549 --> 08:43.073\n當你好稱每集製作2000多萬劇組拿到七八萬的時候你要去查一千多萬到哪裡去了這是一個非常重要的好不好我提醒這樣的部分部長好好地監督這樣的一個做法接下來因為時間的關係我們來看看你剛提到的出版業\n\n08:55.484 --> 08:59.228\n我認為小野出版的100本作品應該跟出版業的距離應該是相當的接近的好不好特別你說那是一個文化盛衰的關鍵指標我完全同意但是部長你這邊所條列的很多的方式我也認同40%留住的出版業你也認為要強化國際的輸出對不對來我們來看數據會說話\n\n09:17.265 --> 09:24.531\n事實上你會看得出來從這個數據裏面你看外銷並沒有成長我們2019年是34億最多的我們到2022年的時候33億算是打平所以表示我們的出版業的外銷的政策上面目前為止我還看不到不像韓國不管是書籍還是IP授權他們是請全國之力再去做而且外銷有沒有辦法拓展對不起2019年最高峰是102億1000多億\n\n09:42.907 --> 09:49.790\n到目前為止我們還是沒有辦法突破而且我們的出版業真的很辛苦我們來看一下你看我們現在小型的出版業幾乎在不滿300萬幾乎在一半47%就是不到300萬的這樣的資本額所以他們越經營越辛苦我個人非常喜歡獨立書店可是目前來說他們幾乎沒有生存的空間我想部長應該很清楚再往下來看因為時間的關係所以你看我先告訴你好了獨立書店絕對是撿\n\n10:11.121 --> 10:15.325\n而且呢你像電子書你說我們電子書你剛剛信誓旦旦捐你覺得電子書做得很好但是目前只被壓迫到只有12塊錢權利金這麼低誰要給好作品再往下看我只要一分鐘就好了你看你說的借頁是不是400萬次這部長覺得很棒\n\n10:28.576 --> 10:57.187\n但是呢你要知道平台賺3塊出版社賺9塊分給多少給作者我們還不知道然後呢你看看我們版權目前為止大概是3600萬但是你知道我們出版社有四五千啊我們退一萬不想我算一千一千家來看好了一家才分到三萬六你覺得這告訴我你這是完全文化指標嗎這是出版業的生態有誰可以活得下去啊部長這是我們出版社的一個非常大的問題這個了解我會跟這個人文出版師我們再重新討論\n\n10:58.107 --> 11:23.403\n你不足以讓你對一個出版一百本書的小影國家我也是受害者啦我後來都拿不到版稅了然後也沒人要借我的書對我受害所以我蠻了解的所以你很感同身受所以我與眾心長出版社對你多少的期望因為你是出過一百本的你要給這些小出版社一個空間否則就是大者恆大小者全部都非常小了\n\n11:23.783 --> 11:28.547\n我們真的很不希望到時候你們開價格很低還是只有開12塊你們給他更高的錢好不好15塊16塊起碼給這些人有辦法有一半要撐下去否則我真的不想讓他們失望充滿無力感然後最後熄燈關門走人而且是在一個出版100本書的這樣子的小野大作家的名下這個對你來說何其\n\n11:48.505 --> 11:54.593\n這是金鐘獎主持人對於我們這樣的部分裏面對你的宇宙心腸的說法可不可以部長可以謝謝謝謝好謝謝柯志恩委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.53,"end":29.304,"text":"謝謝,我們請小野部長。好,我們有請李部長。部長好。好,剛剛因為Ending在金鐘獎,我是金鐘獎第23屆的最佳節目主持人。是,恭喜你。謝謝,恭喜,過去的歷史了。所以我那時候在拿金鐘獎的時候我從來沒想過我們到底要跟誰來競爭,因為那個時候的金鐘獎所得到的至高無上的榮譽就代表我們的影視文化的確是被推到最高峰。"},{"start":30.805,"end":35.447,"text":"謝謝你不過我還是要回饋一下剛剛你提到的也是孟凱講的這個有關於這個網路成癮的事實上我是學認知心理學的我當然可以鼓勵你去做這樣的研究不過我還是最終一個部分裡面來說根據兩個孩子的媽也接觸這麼多年輕學子說實在的手機3C產品最能夠對抗的"},{"start":53.075,"end":72.83,"text":"就是現實的人如果現實的人有趣好玩其實那才是最重要的你不覺得這是才是個事實嗎所以人不有趣的話永遠老師就跟家長就只問他考試如何如何你再好的一個3C把它放到線上等等之類的都沒有辦法抵擋這才是讓人變得有趣變得好玩才是有辦法抵擋整個3C對我們文化上面的一個衝擊好我們來看一下部長你知道這個周杰倫還沒有開唱他的這個黃牛票喊到多少嗎"},{"start":83.458,"end":83.698,"text":"李遠列席報告"},{"start":104.983,"end":111.408,"text":"今天第一個就是要問你有關黃牛票的這個部分說實在的你認為目前來說即使你們修的法你覺得可以打敗黃牛嗎你目前來自你們的檢舉成案和採取的這個數字部長你有掌握嗎"},{"start":120.077,"end":141.067,"text":"對﹖"},{"start":141.447,"end":147.629,"text":"是因為刑事局警方也說光是抓詐騙就已經分身乏術了還抓到你黃牛所以你看看嘛家教轉秀目前來說這檢舉的部分是達到2100但是不正的方法必須用這個機器人等等這些方式說實在的很難抓得到即使呢你們過去社會法當然很離譜啊不到兩萬但是你們現在說的文創法"},{"start":165.794,"end":181.527,"text":"﹖"},{"start":181.687,"end":182.107,"text":"我們其實用各種方式"},{"start":208.857,"end":236.273,"text":"我告訴你這個東西還是沒有辦法因為現在有太多人問我這些票到底是如何所以呢違反這個文創法移送的案件非常的少部長你知道到目前為止有多少嗎不曉得欸10件不到所以說嘛你說這重罰有什麼用說到重罰又沒有辦法達得到我記得我們才罰了75件欸沒有你現在成案75件大概罰了529萬這樣子但是這個部分我就跟你講嘛BLACKPINK就可以賺到2000多萬你現在只有300萬"},{"start":238.774,"end":255.939,"text":"來罰款的話是完全沒有辦法的所以我告訴你這個然後你剛又承認文化部的確是人數各方面是沒有辦法而且那時候你制定的時候呢還是非常的一個鼓勵性質非強制性質所以目前為止有多少單位跟你申請這樣子一個補助因為你們那時候獎勵嘛你知道有多少單位嗎"},{"start":258.84,"end":262.465,"text":"你說補助什麼沒有啊就是你當初的補助要點啊你這樣是補助嘛你演唱會的實名制嘛你認為實名制我們認為實名制是惡者的方法但是呢你會發現有多少人跟你來補助你以為那是獎勵嗎不是獎勵大家不願意啊對啊不願意嘛為什麼你看下面嘛"},{"start":274.6,"end":290.009,"text":"太難了嘛人力時間金錢嘛而且你看要光是要兩三個小時而且你要購入好幾萬的這樣機台所以這個部分是很難去說服你這個主辦購票單位裡面來去做這樣的處理所以我想因為我時間有限我還是請部長你可以參考一下其他國家的日本的抽選制韓國的統一票價還有美國的一些方法這些都是提供大家來做參考否則我們逛市去抓真的是抓不勝抓好不好這是部長你可以來提醒的"},{"start":304.358,"end":324.21,"text":"第二個我們來看看文化會最被詬病的就是應該說不是最被詬病就是大家希望我們得到的補助是公平的是非常公平的這個部長你以前在申請這些所謂製作經費的時候你當然也希望政府能夠給我們更多的一個獎勵嘛你自己知道那這個部分是現在進行式就是臨日攻擊它耗資的2.3億而且呢文化部補助了7000多國發會所以合計補助的1.13億"},{"start":331.974,"end":343.419,"text":"那為什麼會被大家詬病的緣故呢你看看因為這個公司說實在的那時候大家問到你的時候你說我們不會出錢來拍一個這個中共打台灣的這樣影視作品這是部長你所提到的吧對不對"},{"start":344.404,"end":349.348,"text":"對我我絕對是承認這個話是我講的對但是呢我覺得大家影視卻卻想要知道的就是這個公司裡面到底拿了多少拿了政府這麼多錢他的民間資金到底多少他預計要花2點多億來你們已經補足了1.14億那剩下1點多億你覺得民間公司的資金到位了嗎"},{"start":364.228,"end":391.561,"text":"請給我一點時間解釋我們這次大概有11部像這樣子的案子通過大概都是要規定是要1億以上的資金離日供給是其中投資最高的一部但是我們是獎勵比例最低的一部但是部長我先打斷你因為我知道你要講什麼我覺得都已經做過study了你用比例來說不是最高但是他金額絕對是第二高但是2.3億裡面他從民間大概要再找1億多"},{"start":392.261,"end":395.723,"text":"他到位了嗎?其實我跟委員報告 我在乎的是他找了誰來當導演誰來當演員 然後最後拍得好不好"},{"start":408.75,"end":430.764,"text":"對部長這是我要跟你討論的明年5月才會上映如果它裡面有講了非常多我們到底發生這個問題的時候該怎麼辦我更擔心它裡面如果有非常多的影射而且剛剛面臨地方選舉它這個影射哪一些的政黨哪一些的人不愛台不做什麼你知道我可不想文化部補助的錢到時候來做個大內宣改給人民洗腦這對我們來說是"},{"start":433.025,"end":440.928,"text":"陳重負擔好不好部長我也同意內容的品質很重要但是我還要直指這樣的公司說實在的才做120萬然後呢這樣的一個一個公司製作單位可以引發這麼多人來支柱你知道羨慕死多少的這個所謂真的是很想派出好作品的"},{"start":452.532,"end":479.766,"text":"他們要送出來省又省然後退回然後再修正這樣的一個公司可以獲得國家這麼多的補助部長如果拍得好沒有問題但是我還是強調就像你在乎裡面的內容不要拿我們人民納稅的錢然後來做很多不適合的影射然後呢最重要的是給其他很想被關切的眼神的那些製作單位讓他們知道文化部的補助是可以接受檢驗是可以公平的"},{"start":479.906,"end":500.22,"text":"委員讓我講一句話好不好可以我再任不到一個月我就把這11組拿到我們文化部前的11組人找來一組一組的問他們資金還缺多少要我們幫忙什麼所以我完全完全公平連任公職是誰當導演我都不知道因為我很放心"},{"start":501.081,"end":507.884,"text":"我根本不在乎他誰當導演因為他拍10段故事好了部長我提醒你啦你雖然是講信誓旦旦我還是提醒你我們還是金鐘獎的得獎組還是有非常多影劇的人脈啦我告訴你每期自製費2000多萬但是很多的劇組只能到七八百萬部長請你重視這個問題還有"},{"start":519.549,"end":523.073,"text":"當你好稱每集製作2000多萬劇組拿到七八萬的時候你要去查一千多萬到哪裡去了這是一個非常重要的好不好我提醒這樣的部分部長好好地監督這樣的一個做法接下來因為時間的關係我們來看看你剛提到的出版業"},{"start":535.484,"end":539.228,"text":"我認為小野出版的100本作品應該跟出版業的距離應該是相當的接近的好不好特別你說那是一個文化盛衰的關鍵指標我完全同意但是部長你這邊所條列的很多的方式我也認同40%留住的出版業你也認為要強化國際的輸出對不對來我們來看數據會說話"},{"start":557.265,"end":564.531,"text":"事實上你會看得出來從這個數據裏面你看外銷並沒有成長我們2019年是34億最多的我們到2022年的時候33億算是打平所以表示我們的出版業的外銷的政策上面目前為止我還看不到不像韓國不管是書籍還是IP授權他們是請全國之力再去做而且外銷有沒有辦法拓展對不起2019年最高峰是102億1000多億"},{"start":582.907,"end":589.79,"text":"到目前為止我們還是沒有辦法突破而且我們的出版業真的很辛苦我們來看一下你看我們現在小型的出版業幾乎在不滿300萬幾乎在一半47%就是不到300萬的這樣的資本額所以他們越經營越辛苦我個人非常喜歡獨立書店可是目前來說他們幾乎沒有生存的空間我想部長應該很清楚再往下來看因為時間的關係所以你看我先告訴你好了獨立書店絕對是撿"},{"start":611.121,"end":615.325,"text":"而且呢你像電子書你說我們電子書你剛剛信誓旦旦捐你覺得電子書做得很好但是目前只被壓迫到只有12塊錢權利金這麼低誰要給好作品再往下看我只要一分鐘就好了你看你說的借頁是不是400萬次這部長覺得很棒"},{"start":628.576,"end":657.187,"text":"但是呢你要知道平台賺3塊出版社賺9塊分給多少給作者我們還不知道然後呢你看看我們版權目前為止大概是3600萬但是你知道我們出版社有四五千啊我們退一萬不想我算一千一千家來看好了一家才分到三萬六你覺得這告訴我你這是完全文化指標嗎這是出版業的生態有誰可以活得下去啊部長這是我們出版社的一個非常大的問題這個了解我會跟這個人文出版師我們再重新討論"},{"start":658.107,"end":683.403,"text":"你不足以讓你對一個出版一百本書的小影國家我也是受害者啦我後來都拿不到版稅了然後也沒人要借我的書對我受害所以我蠻了解的所以你很感同身受所以我與眾心長出版社對你多少的期望因為你是出過一百本的你要給這些小出版社一個空間否則就是大者恆大小者全部都非常小了"},{"start":683.783,"end":688.547,"text":"我們真的很不希望到時候你們開價格很低還是只有開12塊你們給他更高的錢好不好15塊16塊起碼給這些人有辦法有一半要撐下去否則我真的不想讓他們失望充滿無力感然後最後熄燈關門走人而且是在一個出版100本書的這樣子的小野大作家的名下這個對你來說何其"},{"start":708.505,"end":714.593,"text":"這是金鐘獎主持人對於我們這樣的部分裏面對你的宇宙心腸的說法可不可以部長可以謝謝謝謝好謝謝柯志恩委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":238,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（9時39分）謝謝，我們請小野部長。"],["主席：好，請李部長。"],["柯委員志恩：部長好。"],["李部長遠：委員好。"],["柯委員志恩：剛剛ending在金鐘獎，我是金鐘獎第23屆的最佳節目主持人……"],["李部長遠：是，恭喜你。"],["柯委員志恩：謝謝，恭喜？那是過去的歷史了，我那時候拿金鐘獎的時候，我從來沒想過我們到底要跟誰來競爭，因為那個時候在金鐘獎，得到至高無上的榮譽，就代表我們的影視文化的確是被推到最高峰。"],["洪委員孟楷：委員3歲就拿到了！"],["柯委員志恩：謝謝你！不過我還是要回饋一下剛剛你提到的，也是孟楷講的，有關於網路成癮，事實上我是學認知心理學的，我大概可以鼓勵你去做這樣的研究，不過我最終還是以一個部分來說，根據我身為兩個孩子的媽，也接觸過這麼多年輕學子，說實在的，手機、3C產品最能夠對抗的就是現實的人，如果現在的人有趣、好玩，其實那才是最重要的，你不覺得這才是個事實嗎？"],["李部長遠：是啊！對。"],["柯委員志恩：所以人不有趣的話，老師跟家長永遠就只問他考試如何、如何，3C把它放到線上等等之類的都沒有辦法抵擋，讓人變得有趣、變得好玩才有辦法抵擋整個3C對我們文化上面的衝擊。我們來看一下，部長，你知道周杰倫還沒有開唱，他的黃牛票喊到多少嗎？"],["李部長遠：我不曉得耶！"],["柯委員志恩：我告訴你7萬，可怕吧！7萬！"],["李部長遠：是，可怕。"],["柯委員志恩：所以這就會告訴你，你看我們黃牛已經是揚名國際了，連目前最有名的黑白大廚在韓國的實境節目，那個票也是我們臺灣的黃牛來操控，引發國際非常大的爭執，所以今天第一個就要問有關黃牛票的部分。說實在的，你認為目前來說，即使是你們修的法，你覺得可以打敗黃牛嗎？以目前來講，檢舉成案和裁處的數字，部長，你有掌握嗎？"],["李部長遠：清楚的數字我們一直在增加中，但是打敗黃牛這部分，說句實話，我們文化部的部門裡面真正能夠去抓黃牛跟這個……"],["柯委員志恩：太有限了，對不對？"],["李部長遠：不但有限，而且做到大家都不要做，一直換人來做，整個基本上……"],["柯委員志恩：是！因為我也問過刑事……"],["李部長遠：它基本上是一個非常困難的事情。"],["柯委員志恩：是！因為刑事局警方也說，光是抓詐騙就已經分身乏術了，還去抓黃牛，所以你看看嘛！加價轉售目前來說，檢舉的部分達到2,100件，但是不正的方法必須用機器人等等這些方式，說實在的很難抓到，即使你們過去的社維法當然很離譜，不到兩萬，但是你們現在的文創法修法，希望透過重罰來抵擋黃牛，但是成效也很差，為什麼？機器人一進來，你們設了一個網站，但黃牛還是很猖獗啊！部長你瞭解嗎？因為你看看嘛！上次在我們高雄辦的BLACKPINK，即使黃牛票狠賺了2,000萬，現在你用最新的法令也不過才罰了300萬，300萬跟2,000萬，你覺得黃牛因為你的修法變嚴重就會抑止他們嗎？答案做不到嘛！更何況你根本很難抓得到，所以這個部分不是修法就有辦法解決，你覺得如何來遏止黃牛猖獗呢？有沒有一個具體的作法？"],["李部長遠：我們其實用各種方式……"],["柯委員志恩：我告訴你，這個東西還是沒有辦法，因為現在有太多人問我這些票到底是如何，所以違反文創法移送的案件非常的少。部長，你知道到目前為止有多少嗎？"],["李部長遠：不曉得耶！"],["柯委員志恩：不到10件，所以你說這重罰有什麼用，修了法，重罰又沒有辦法達到，所以對黃牛問題還是沒有辦法……"],["李部長遠：我記得我們裁罰了75件。"],["柯委員志恩：沒有，你現在成案……"],["李部長遠：75件，大概罰了529萬這樣子。"],["柯委員志恩：但是這個部分我就跟你講，BLACKPINK就可以賺到兩千多萬，現在罰款只有300萬的話是完全沒有辦法防止的，你剛剛又承認文化部的確在人數、各方面是沒有辦法的，而且那時候你制定的時候，還是以鼓勵性質非強制性質。目前為止有多少單位跟你申請這樣的補助？因為你們那時候是獎勵嘛！你知道有多少單位嗎？"],["李部長遠：你說補助什麼？就是……"],["柯委員志恩：沒有啊！就是你當初的補助要點啊！你這樣是補助演唱會的實名制嘛！"],["李部長遠：用實名制的補助。"],["柯委員志恩：我們認為實名制是遏止的方法，但是你會發現有多少人跟你補助，因為那是獎勵，不是強制的。"],["李部長遠：大家不願意啊！非常少，對。"],["柯委員志恩：對啊，不願意嘛！為什麼？你看下面，太難了嘛！人力、時間、金錢嘛，光是入場要花2、3個小時，而且你要購入好幾萬元的機臺，所以這個部分是很難去說服購票單位來做這樣的處理。因為我時間有限，我還是請部長可以參考一下其他國家的方式，日本的抽選制、韓國的統一票價，還有美國的一些方法，這些都是提供大家來做參考，否則我們光是去抓，真的是抓不勝抓，好不好？這是部長可以來提醒的。"],["李部長遠：好，是。"],["柯委員志恩：第二個，我們來看看文化部最被詬病的，應該不是說最被詬病的，而是大家希望得到的補助是公平的、是非常公平的。部長，你以前在申請這些製作經費的時候，當然你也希望政府能夠給我們更多的獎勵，你自己知道，這個部分是現在進行式，即「零日攻擊」，它耗資了2.3億，而且文化部補助了七千多萬，與國發會合計補助了1.13億，為什麼會被大家詬病呢？你看看，這個公司說實在的，那時候大家問到你的時候，你說你們不會出錢來拍一個中共打臺灣的影視作品，這是部長你所提到的嘛，對不對？"],["李部長遠：我絕對是承認，這個話是我講的。"],["柯委員志恩：對，但是我覺得影視界大家最想要知道的，就是這個公司到底拿了多少，拿了政府這麼多錢，它的民間資金到底多少？它預計要花二點多億來製作，你們已經補助了1.13億，那剩下一點多億？"],["李部長遠：是。"],["柯委員志恩：你覺得民間公司的資金到位了嗎？"],["李部長遠：請給我一點時間解釋，我們這次大概有11部像這樣子的案子通過，大概都規定要1億以上的資金，零日攻擊是其中投資最高的一部，但我們是獎勵比例最低的一部……"],["柯委員志恩：但是部長，我先打斷你，因為我知道你要講什麼，我幾乎都已經做過study了，你用比例來說不是最高，但它的金額絕對是第二高。"],["李部長遠：但是在2.3億裡面，它從民間大概要再找一億多。"],["柯委員志恩：到位了嗎？到位了嗎？你剛剛說比例，你可以先灌水到高，然後你告訴我它比例不是最高，但它的金額是第二。"],["李部長遠：它到位了嗎？它到位了嗎？其實我跟委員報告，我在乎的是它找了誰來當導演、誰來當演員……"],["柯委員志恩：我也很在乎它的內容。"],["李部長遠：然後最後拍得好不好。"],["柯委員志恩：對！部長，這是我要跟你討論的，明年5月才會上映，如果它裡面有講非常多……到底發生問題的時候該怎麼辦？"],["李部長遠：對。"],["柯委員志恩：我更擔心它裡面如果有非常多影射，而且剛好面臨地方選舉，它影射了哪一些政黨、哪一些人不愛臺、不做什麼，你知道，我可不想文化部補助的錢到時候來做個大內宣，給人民洗腦，這對我們來說是沉重的負擔，好不好？"],["李部長遠：是。"],["柯委員志恩：部長，我也同意內容的品質很重要，但是我還要直指這樣的公司，說實在的資本額才只有120萬，這樣的公司、製作單位可以引發這麼多人來資助，你知道羨慕死多少真的很想拍出好作品的，他們要送出來，審了又審，然後退回、再修正。這樣的一個公司可以獲得國家這麼多的補助，部長如果拍得好沒有問題，但是我還是強調，就像你在乎裡面的內容，不要拿我們人民納稅的錢，然後來做很多不適當的影射，最重要的是給其他很想被關切的那些製作單位，讓他們知道文化部的補助是可以接受檢驗、是可以公平的。"],["李部長遠：委員，讓我講一句話，好不好？"],["柯委員志恩：可以。"],["李部長遠：我上任不到一個月，我就把拿到文化部錢的11組人找來，一組、一組的問他們資金還缺多少，要我們幫忙什麼……"],["柯委員志恩：好……"],["李部長遠：所以我完全公平，「零日攻擊」是誰當導演，我都不知道，為什麼？因為我很放心，我根本不在乎誰當導演，因為他拍10段故事，裡面有5個……"],["柯委員志恩：好啦！部長，你雖然是講得信誓旦旦，但我還是提醒你，金鐘獎的得獎者還是有非常多影劇的人脈，我告訴你每集製作費兩千多萬，但是很多的劇組只拿到七、八百萬，部長，請你重視這個問題。還有當你號稱每集製作費兩千多萬，劇組拿到七、八百萬的時候，你要去查一千多萬到哪裡去了，我提醒這是一個非常重要的部分，好不好？部長，好好地監督這樣的一個作法。"],["李部長遠：是、是！好。"],["柯委員志恩：接下來，因為時間的關係，我們來看看你剛剛提到的出版業，我認為小野出版了100本作品，跟出版業的距離應該是相當地接近的，好不好？特別你說那是一個文化盛衰的關鍵指標，我完全同意，但是部長，你這邊所條列的很多方式，我也認同40%留住了出版業，你也認為要強化國際輸出，對不對？我們來看數據會說話，事實上你可以看得出來，從這個數據裡面，你看外銷並沒有成長，我們2019年是34億，這是最多的；到2022年的時候是33億，算是打平，所以這表示在我們出版業的外銷政策上面，目前為止我還看不到，不像韓國，不管是書籍還是IP授權，他們是傾全國之力在做，而且外銷有沒有沒辦法拓展？對不起！2019年最高峰是一千多億，到目前為止，我們還是沒有辦法突破，而且我們的出版業真的很辛苦。我們再來看一下，我們現在小型的出版業不到300萬的資本額幾乎占一半，即47%，所以他們越經營越辛苦。我個人非常喜歡逛獨立書店，可是目前來說，他們幾乎沒有生存的空間，我想部長應該很清楚。","再往下來看，因為時間的關係，我先告訴你好了，獨立書店絕對是減，而且像是電子書，你剛剛信誓旦旦地說，你覺得電子書做得很好，但是目前只被壓迫到只有12塊錢，權利金這麼低，誰要給好作品？我只要再1分鐘就好了。你說的借閱次數是400萬次，部長覺得這個很棒，但是你要知道平臺賺3塊，出版社賺9塊，分多少給作者？我們還不知道，然後你看看我們版權目前為止大概是3,600萬，但是你知道我們出版社有四、五千家，我們退一萬步講，我算1,000家來看好了，一家才分到3萬6，告訴我你覺得這是完全文化指標嗎？這是出版業的生態，有誰可以活得下去啊！部長，這是我們出版社一個非常大的問題。"],["李部長遠：了解，我會跟人文出版司再重新討論。"],["柯委員志恩：這個東西不足以讓你對一個出版100本書的小野作家……"],["李部長遠：我也是受害者啦！我後來拿不到版稅。"],["柯委員志恩：是嘛！你看看這個東西。"],["李部長遠：然後也沒人要借我的書，對，我受害，所以我滿了解的。"],["柯委員志恩：你很感同身受，所以我語重心長，出版社對你多少的期望，因為你是出過100本的，你要給這些小出版社一個空間，否則就是大者恆大，小者全部都變非常小了，我們真的很不希望到時候你們開的價格很低，還是只有開12塊，你們給它更高的錢好不好？15塊、16塊，起碼給這些人有辦法撐下去，我真的不想讓他們失望，充滿無力感，然後最後熄燈、關門、走人，而且是在一個出版100本書這樣子的小野大作家的名下，這個對你來說何其……這是金鐘獎主持人對於這樣的部分，對你語重心長的說法，可不可以？部長。"],["李部長遠：可以，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝柯志恩委員，部長請回。"],["主席（柯委員志恩代）：謝謝，我們現在請萬美玲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":382,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-5","speakers":["萬美玲","林倩綺","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葉元之","陳培瑜","林宜瑾","羅廷瑋","陳秀寳","葛如鈞","張雅琳","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","吳春城","范雲","陳菁徽","楊瓊瓔","徐富癸","郭國文","王鴻薇","陳亭妃","林楚茵","何欣純","蔡易餘","邱志偉","賴惠員","涂權吉","高金素梅"],"page_start":309,"meetingDate":["2024-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1138901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部部長李遠列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138901_00005"}}}