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\"碳\", \"start\": 62.102, \"end\": 62.122, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 62.122, \"end\": 62.222, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 62.222, \"end\": 62.242, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"象\", \"start\": 62.242, \"end\": 62.262, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 62.262, \"end\": 62.282, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 62.282, \"end\": 62.302, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 62.302, \"end\": 62.322, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 62.322, \"end\": 62.422, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 62.422, \"end\": 62.442, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 62.442, \"end\": 62.462, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 62.462, \"end\": 62.482, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 62.482, \"end\": 62.662, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 62.662, \"end\": 62.702, \"score\": 0.486}, {\"word\": \"需\", 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104.351, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"抵\", \"start\": 104.351, \"end\": 104.531, \"score\": 0.673}, {\"word\": \"扣\", \"start\": 104.531, \"end\": 104.791, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 104.791, \"end\": 104.811, \"score\": 0.965}]}, {\"start\": 107.995, \"end\": 134.973, \"text\": \"請問因為目前歐盟CBAM也是一個過渡期那就是說廠商必須要申報進口產品的碳含量但是目前我們如果按照我們的預設值來申報那到底歐盟會不會認定我們在台灣申報的這樣子的第三方的單位查證呢?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 107.995, \"end\": 108.255, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 108.255, \"end\": 108.655, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 108.655, \"end\": 109.636, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"歐\", \"start\": 109.636, \"end\": 109.776, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"盟\", \"start\": 109.776, \"end\": 109.936, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"C\", \"start\": 109.936, \"end\": 110.076, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"B\", \"start\": 110.076, \"end\": 110.236, \"score\": 0.866}, 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\"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 539.778, \"end\": 542.179, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 542.179, \"end\": 542.299, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"座\", \"start\": 542.299, \"end\": 542.319, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,589 --> 00:00:27,396\n請謝一鳳委員謝謝主席我想要請我們聯次長跟我們環境部的施次長不好意思可以幫我把那個關掉一下嗎這個是誰的\n\n2\n00:00:31,389 --> 00:00:57,132\n我想請問一下兩位次長就是我們現在臺灣的碳費它涵蓋的是54%然後500個工廠跟281家企業但是我想要請問我們增碳費的最大的原因就是為了可以抵銷就是歐盟的那個CBAM對不對那有多少人可以抵銷歐盟CBAM\n\n3\n00:01:00,060 --> 00:01:03,943\n應該是鋼鐵就是扣件因為我們歐盟CBAM它有一些繳費的對象並不是我們碳費收費的對象所以不是全部的人都需要繳因為他們所使用的原料鋼在我們這邊是會收碳費的\n\n4\n00:01:22,139 --> 00:01:44,811\n我們也在跟歐盟去談說這個如果他的原料比如說扣件業因為扣件業台灣是目前大部分是不用繳碳費但他們所使用的原料鋼如果用中鋼這個我們是有的所以我們在因為歐盟自己對於他要怎麼抵扣的計算還沒有出來但是我們的碳費確實是他的法規當中所承認可以抵扣的\n\n5\n00:01:47,995 --> 00:02:14,973\n請問因為目前歐盟CBAM也是一個過渡期那就是說廠商必須要申報進口產品的碳含量但是目前我們如果按照我們的預設值來申報那到底歐盟會不會認定我們在台灣申報的這樣子的第三方的單位查證呢?\n\n6\n00:02:17,748 --> 00:02:46,597\n目前就是在這個產品在做申報的時候先不用做查證這是一個那第二個就是呢等2026年歐盟實際要收錢就是要去買這個CBAM憑證的時候他的這個產品碳含量才需要查證這是第一點跟委員報告目前不用碳對目前在申報的過程還不用那第二點再跟委員報告就是說未來在真的實際要繳CBAM憑證的時候他只收產品的直接排放\n\n7\n00:02:47,113 --> 00:02:48,674\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助規劃\n\n8\n00:03:14,170 --> 00:03:16,451\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之規劃。\n\n9\n00:03:43,894 --> 00:04:01,304\n呃這個我跟我們報告是我們環境部明年開始就會有一個這個駐歐盟的代表所以我們會跟歐盟去談說認證查驗機構可不可以有可能取得相互認證所以這一塊在歐盟自己的規則還在這個草擬的過程當中我們趕快想要趁這個機會跟他去談那就是根據我們根據我們經濟部的統計喔市長\n\n10\n00:04:08,948 --> 00:04:28,922\n有鋼鐵的相關扣件還有鋁製的產業它就有2000多家是出口到歐盟去那不少都是中小企業那其中有3500家會受到CBAM的影響那這個對於我們國內的中小企業有什麼樣子的影響\n\n11\n00:04:29,642 --> 00:04:39,172\n跟委員報告這三應該是本來是有4000多家那後來他們我們有全部跟我們貿易署這邊一起全部調查後來有說將近3560幾家就是說他要來接受我們的輔導還有申報\n\n12\n00:04:44,798 --> 00:04:47,601\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之\n\n13\n00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:15,687\n這一塊我們是有成立一個專案計畫有全部來協助他把這個碳的含量把它降低下來甚至在上游中鋼那部分我們也有去做了一些處理\n\n14\n00:05:17,490 --> 00:05:40,565\n我是想要了解如果目前因為我去了解我們地方的民眾我們也希望說能夠協助小農去讓他們有碳匯然後可以來進行碳交易那增加農民的收入可是目前我看到了相關的環境部你們到底有沒有就這些農民給予協助啊\n\n15\n00:05:41,685 --> 00:05:47,348\n跟委員報告就是如果要依照我們的自願減量管理辦法要來取得碳權要先有一個減量方法論那土壤碳會的這一個議題因為目前國內還沒有減量方法那農業部已經好像打算有在研擬這個減量方法所以我們等這個我們會跟農業部就是加快腳步去看說\n\n16\n00:06:03,476 --> 00:06:07,579\n因為現在碳權交易所已經開始了那結果我們的農民、我們的漁民以及我們相關的民眾都沒有辦法申請相關的碳權那在這樣子的情況下就是說環境部你怎麼樣子協助?\n\n17\n00:06:29,339 --> 00:06:58,842\n跟委員報告因為我們的這個碳交所上架的碳權是2015年之後我們就有做抵換專案那都是比較偏製造業那再來就是自願減量專案因為整個這個投資包括要查驗證它的這個資本跟技術投入比較大所以我們的自願減量管理辦法裡面是有提到說個人沒有辦法申請一定是要透過這個政府機關或者是這個團體來做申請那什麼樣子的可以申請團體的部分\n\n18\n00:06:59,981 --> 00:07:25,801\n只要不是個人．比如說他如果成立一個合作社．就是他只要是一個法人．或者是一個機構．他都可以來申請自願檢查專案．對,他就個人不行．對,個人不行．所以只要是農民團體也可以嗎．可以．如果他是有成立一個團體的話．是沒有問題．所以農民團體也可以協助我們的農民．因為你必須要告訴．而且但是現在目前．\n\n19\n00:07:26,622 --> 00:07:36,545\n方法論都沒有出來怎麼樣子協助他們對於土壤的碳費這樣子能夠增加他們綠色收益嗎不要讓他們變成就是未來會綠色通膨的這樣子的一個受害者嗎對,農業部的這個土壤的減量方法論我們會加快跟農業部討論怎麼快速的讓他減量方法論可以過因為減量方法論其實國際上我們也希望跟國際是對標的啦那這樣產出的碳權\n\n20\n00:07:56,223 --> 00:07:57,164\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長就\n\n21\n00:08:11,243 --> 00:08:34,793\n就是你現在講的都是關於螺絲控件、鋼鐵相關的但是對於中小企業過去你們有以大代小以及減碳的輔導相關的這樣子的措施但是我認為對於未來中小企業會面臨到的相關的這些綠色的成本怎麼樣子降低你必須要協助他們\n\n22\n00:08:36,087 --> 00:09:02,319\n會,會,我們其實剛剛講的那個只是講針對特定的產業,因為它面臨這樣一次比較急迫性,所以有一個比較專案的計畫,那其他的我們會一般性的計畫,我們目前都有減碳或節能的計畫,再來協助這些中小企業,尤其是我們中技術這邊就有相關計畫在執行。好,好,謝謝喔,謝謝主席。謝謝,謝謝鳳委員非常精準的質詢。來,次長請回座。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n589\t27396\t請謝一鳳委員謝謝主席我想要請我們聯次長跟我們環境部的施次長不好意思可以幫我把那個關掉一下嗎這個是誰的\n31389\t57132\t我想請問一下兩位次長就是我們現在臺灣的碳費它涵蓋的是54%然後500個工廠跟281家企業但是我想要請問我們增碳費的最大的原因就是為了可以抵銷就是歐盟的那個CBAM 對不對那有多少人可以抵銷歐盟CBAM\n60060\t63943\t應該是鋼鐵就是扣件因為我們歐盟CBAM它有一些繳費的對象並不是我們碳費收費的對象所以不是全部的人都需要繳因為他們所使用的原料鋼在我們這邊是會收碳費的\n82139\t104811\t我們也在跟歐盟去談說這個如果他的原料比如說扣件業因為扣件業台灣是目前大部分是不用繳碳費但他們所使用的原料鋼如果用中鋼這個我們是有的所以我們在因為歐盟自己對於他要怎麼抵扣的計算還沒有出來但是我們的碳費確實是他的法規當中所承認可以抵扣的\n107995\t134973\t請問因為目前歐盟CBAM也是一個過渡期那就是說廠商必須要申報進口產品的碳含量但是目前我們如果按照我們的預設值來申報那到底歐盟會不會認定我們在台灣申報的這樣子的第三方的單位查證呢?\n135213\t136305\t響鐘\n137748\t166597\t目前就是在這個產品在做申報的時候先不用做查證這是一個那第二個就是呢等2026年歐盟實際要收錢就是要去買這個CBAM憑證的時候他的這個產品碳含量才需要查證這是第一點跟委員報告目前不用碳對目前在申報的過程還不用那第二點再跟委員報告就是說未來在真的實際要繳CBAM憑證的時候他只收產品的直接排放\n167113\t168674\t二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助規劃\n194170\t196451\t二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之規劃。\n223894\t241304\t呃這個我跟我們報告是我們環境部明年開始就會有一個這個駐歐盟的代表所以我們會跟歐盟去談說認證查驗機構可不可以有可能取得相互認證所以這一塊在歐盟自己的規則還在這個草擬的過程當中我們趕快想要趁這個機會跟他去談那就是根據我們根據我們經濟部的統計喔市長\n248948\t268922\t有鋼鐵的相關扣件還有鋁製的產業它就有2000多家是出口到歐盟去那不少都是中小企業那其中有3500家會受到CBAM的影響那這個對於我們國內的中小企業有什麼樣子的影響\n269642\t279172\t跟委員報告這三應該是本來是有4000多家那後來他們我們有全部跟我們貿易署這邊一起全部調查後來有說將近3560幾家就是說他要來接受我們的輔導還有申報\n284798\t287601\t二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之\n305880\t315687\t這一塊我們是有成立一個專案計畫有全部來協助他把這個碳的含量把它降低下來甚至在上游中鋼那部分我們也有去做了一些處理\n317490\t340565\t我是想要了解如果目前因為我去了解我們地方的民眾我們也希望說能夠協助小農去讓他們有碳匯然後可以來進行碳交易那增加農民的收入可是目前我看到了相關的環境部你們到底有沒有就這些農民給予協助啊\n341685\t347348\t跟委員報告就是如果要依照我們的自願減量管理辦法要來取得碳權要先有一個減量方法論那土壤碳會的這一個議題因為目前國內還沒有減量方法那農業部已經好像打算有在研擬這個減量方法所以我們等這個我們會跟農業部就是加快腳步去看說\n363476\t367579\t因為現在碳權交易所已經開始了那結果我們的農民、我們的漁民以及我們相關的民眾都沒有辦法申請相關的碳權那在這樣子的情況下就是說環境部你怎麼樣子協助?\n389339\t418842\t跟委員報告因為我們的這個碳交所上架的碳權是2015年之後我們就有做抵換專案那都是比較偏製造業那再來就是自願減量專案因為整個這個投資包括要查驗證它的這個資本跟技術投入比較大所以我們的自願減量管理辦法裡面是有提到說個人沒有辦法申請一定是要透過這個政府機關或者是這個團體來做申請那什麼樣子的可以申請團體的部分\n419981\t445801\t只要不是個人．比如說他如果成立一個合作社．就是他只要是一個法人．或者是一個機構．他都可以來申請自願檢查專案．對,他就個人不行．對,個人不行．所以只要是農民團體也可以嗎．可以．如果他是有成立一個團體的話．是沒有問題．所以農民團體也可以協助我們的農民．因為你必須要告訴．而且但是現在目前．\n446622\t456545\t方法論都沒有出來怎麼樣子協助他們對於土壤的碳費這樣子能夠增加他們綠色收益嗎不要讓他們變成就是未來會綠色通膨的這樣子的一個受害者嗎對,農業部的這個土壤的減量方法論我們會加快跟農業部討論怎麼快速的讓他減量方法論可以過因為減量方法論其實國際上我們也希望跟國際是對標的啦那這樣產出的碳權\n476223\t477164\t二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長就\n491243\t514793\t就是你現在講的都是關於螺絲控件、鋼鐵相關的但是對於中小企業過去你們有以大代小以及減碳的輔導相關的這樣子的措施但是我認為對於未來中小企業會面臨到的相關的這些綠色的成本怎麼樣子降低你必須要協助他們\n516087\t542319\t會,會,我們其實剛剛講的那個只是講針對特定的產業,因為它面臨這樣一次比較急迫性,所以有一個比較專案的計畫,那其他的我們會一般性的計畫,我們目前都有減碳或節能的計畫,再來協助這些中小企業,尤其是我們中技術這邊就有相關計畫在執行。好,好,謝謝喔,謝謝主席。謝謝,謝謝鳳委員非常精準的質詢。來,次長請回座。\n","txt":"請謝一鳳委員謝謝主席我想要請我們聯次長跟我們環境部的施次長不好意思可以幫我把那個關掉一下嗎這個是誰的\n我想請問一下兩位次長就是我們現在臺灣的碳費它涵蓋的是54%然後500個工廠跟281家企業但是我想要請問我們增碳費的最大的原因就是為了可以抵銷就是歐盟的那個CBAM 對不對那有多少人可以抵銷歐盟CBAM\n應該是鋼鐵就是扣件因為我們歐盟CBAM它有一些繳費的對象並不是我們碳費收費的對象所以不是全部的人都需要繳因為他們所使用的原料鋼在我們這邊是會收碳費的\n我們也在跟歐盟去談說這個如果他的原料比如說扣件業因為扣件業台灣是目前大部分是不用繳碳費但他們所使用的原料鋼如果用中鋼這個我們是有的所以我們在因為歐盟自己對於他要怎麼抵扣的計算還沒有出來但是我們的碳費確實是他的法規當中所承認可以抵扣的\n請問因為目前歐盟CBAM也是一個過渡期那就是說廠商必須要申報進口產品的碳含量但是目前我們如果按照我們的預設值來申報那到底歐盟會不會認定我們在台灣申報的這樣子的第三方的單位查證呢?\n響鐘\n目前就是在這個產品在做申報的時候先不用做查證這是一個那第二個就是呢等2026年歐盟實際要收錢就是要去買這個CBAM憑證的時候他的這個產品碳含量才需要查證這是第一點跟委員報告目前不用碳對目前在申報的過程還不用那第二點再跟委員報告就是說未來在真的實際要繳CBAM憑證的時候他只收產品的直接排放\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助規劃\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之規劃。\n呃這個我跟我們報告是我們環境部明年開始就會有一個這個駐歐盟的代表所以我們會跟歐盟去談說認證查驗機構可不可以有可能取得相互認證所以這一塊在歐盟自己的規則還在這個草擬的過程當中我們趕快想要趁這個機會跟他去談那就是根據我們根據我們經濟部的統計喔市長\n有鋼鐵的相關扣件還有鋁製的產業它就有2000多家是出口到歐盟去那不少都是中小企業那其中有3500家會受到CBAM的影響那這個對於我們國內的中小企業有什麼樣子的影響\n跟委員報告這三應該是本來是有4000多家那後來他們我們有全部跟我們貿易署這邊一起全部調查後來有說將近3560幾家就是說他要來接受我們的輔導還有申報\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之\n這一塊我們是有成立一個專案計畫有全部來協助他把這個碳的含量把它降低下來甚至在上游中鋼那部分我們也有去做了一些處理\n我是想要了解如果目前因為我去了解我們地方的民眾我們也希望說能夠協助小農去讓他們有碳匯然後可以來進行碳交易那增加農民的收入可是目前我看到了相關的環境部你們到底有沒有就這些農民給予協助啊\n跟委員報告就是如果要依照我們的自願減量管理辦法要來取得碳權要先有一個減量方法論那土壤碳會的這一個議題因為目前國內還沒有減量方法那農業部已經好像打算有在研擬這個減量方法所以我們等這個我們會跟農業部就是加快腳步去看說\n因為現在碳權交易所已經開始了那結果我們的農民、我們的漁民以及我們相關的民眾都沒有辦法申請相關的碳權那在這樣子的情況下就是說環境部你怎麼樣子協助?\n跟委員報告因為我們的這個碳交所上架的碳權是2015年之後我們就有做抵換專案那都是比較偏製造業那再來就是自願減量專案因為整個這個投資包括要查驗證它的這個資本跟技術投入比較大所以我們的自願減量管理辦法裡面是有提到說個人沒有辦法申請一定是要透過這個政府機關或者是這個團體來做申請那什麼樣子的可以申請團體的部分\n只要不是個人．比如說他如果成立一個合作社．就是他只要是一個法人．或者是一個機構．他都可以來申請自願檢查專案．對,他就個人不行．對,個人不行．所以只要是農民團體也可以嗎．可以．如果他是有成立一個團體的話．是沒有問題．所以農民團體也可以協助我們的農民．因為你必須要告訴．而且但是現在目前．\n方法論都沒有出來怎麼樣子協助他們對於土壤的碳費這樣子能夠增加他們綠色收益嗎不要讓他們變成就是未來會綠色通膨的這樣子的一個受害者嗎對,農業部的這個土壤的減量方法論我們會加快跟農業部討論怎麼快速的讓他減量方法論可以過因為減量方法論其實國際上我們也希望跟國際是對標的啦那這樣產出的碳權\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長就\n就是你現在講的都是關於螺絲控件、鋼鐵相關的但是對於中小企業過去你們有以大代小以及減碳的輔導相關的這樣子的措施但是我認為對於未來中小企業會面臨到的相關的這些綠色的成本怎麼樣子降低你必須要協助他們\n會,會,我們其實剛剛講的那個只是講針對特定的產業,因為它面臨這樣一次比較急迫性,所以有一個比較專案的計畫,那其他的我們會一般性的計畫,我們目前都有減碳或節能的計畫,再來協助這些中小企業,尤其是我們中技術這邊就有相關計畫在執行。好,好,謝謝喔,謝謝主席。謝謝,謝謝鳳委員非常精準的質詢。來,次長請回座。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.589 --> 00:27.396\n請謝一鳳委員謝謝主席我想要請我們聯次長跟我們環境部的施次長不好意思可以幫我把那個關掉一下嗎這個是誰的\n\n00:31.389 --> 00:57.132\n我想請問一下兩位次長就是我們現在臺灣的碳費它涵蓋的是54%然後500個工廠跟281家企業但是我想要請問我們增碳費的最大的原因就是為了可以抵銷就是歐盟的那個CBAM對不對那有多少人可以抵銷歐盟CBAM\n\n01:00.060 --> 01:03.943\n應該是鋼鐵就是扣件因為我們歐盟CBAM它有一些繳費的對象並不是我們碳費收費的對象所以不是全部的人都需要繳因為他們所使用的原料鋼在我們這邊是會收碳費的\n\n01:22.139 --> 01:44.811\n我們也在跟歐盟去談說這個如果他的原料比如說扣件業因為扣件業台灣是目前大部分是不用繳碳費但他們所使用的原料鋼如果用中鋼這個我們是有的所以我們在因為歐盟自己對於他要怎麼抵扣的計算還沒有出來但是我們的碳費確實是他的法規當中所承認可以抵扣的\n\n01:47.995 --> 02:14.973\n請問因為目前歐盟CBAM也是一個過渡期那就是說廠商必須要申報進口產品的碳含量但是目前我們如果按照我們的預設值來申報那到底歐盟會不會認定我們在台灣申報的這樣子的第三方的單位查證呢?\n\n02:17.748 --> 02:46.597\n目前就是在這個產品在做申報的時候先不用做查證這是一個那第二個就是呢等2026年歐盟實際要收錢就是要去買這個CBAM憑證的時候他的這個產品碳含量才需要查證這是第一點跟委員報告目前不用碳對目前在申報的過程還不用那第二點再跟委員報告就是說未來在真的實際要繳CBAM憑證的時候他只收產品的直接排放\n\n02:47.113 --> 02:48.674\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助規劃\n\n03:14.170 --> 03:16.451\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之規劃。\n\n03:43.894 --> 04:01.304\n呃這個我跟我們報告是我們環境部明年開始就會有一個這個駐歐盟的代表所以我們會跟歐盟去談說認證查驗機構可不可以有可能取得相互認證所以這一塊在歐盟自己的規則還在這個草擬的過程當中我們趕快想要趁這個機會跟他去談那就是根據我們根據我們經濟部的統計喔市長\n\n04:08.948 --> 04:28.922\n有鋼鐵的相關扣件還有鋁製的產業它就有2000多家是出口到歐盟去那不少都是中小企業那其中有3500家會受到CBAM的影響那這個對於我們國內的中小企業有什麼樣子的影響\n\n04:29.642 --> 04:39.172\n跟委員報告這三應該是本來是有4000多家那後來他們我們有全部跟我們貿易署這邊一起全部調查後來有說將近3560幾家就是說他要來接受我們的輔導還有申報\n\n04:44.798 --> 04:47.601\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之\n\n05:05.880 --> 05:15.687\n這一塊我們是有成立一個專案計畫有全部來協助他把這個碳的含量把它降低下來甚至在上游中鋼那部分我們也有去做了一些處理\n\n05:17.490 --> 05:40.565\n我是想要了解如果目前因為我去了解我們地方的民眾我們也希望說能夠協助小農去讓他們有碳匯然後可以來進行碳交易那增加農民的收入可是目前我看到了相關的環境部你們到底有沒有就這些農民給予協助啊\n\n05:41.685 --> 05:47.348\n跟委員報告就是如果要依照我們的自願減量管理辦法要來取得碳權要先有一個減量方法論那土壤碳會的這一個議題因為目前國內還沒有減量方法那農業部已經好像打算有在研擬這個減量方法所以我們等這個我們會跟農業部就是加快腳步去看說\n\n06:03.476 --> 06:07.579\n因為現在碳權交易所已經開始了那結果我們的農民、我們的漁民以及我們相關的民眾都沒有辦法申請相關的碳權那在這樣子的情況下就是說環境部你怎麼樣子協助?\n\n06:29.339 --> 06:58.842\n跟委員報告因為我們的這個碳交所上架的碳權是2015年之後我們就有做抵換專案那都是比較偏製造業那再來就是自願減量專案因為整個這個投資包括要查驗證它的這個資本跟技術投入比較大所以我們的自願減量管理辦法裡面是有提到說個人沒有辦法申請一定是要透過這個政府機關或者是這個團體來做申請那什麼樣子的可以申請團體的部分\n\n06:59.981 --> 07:25.801\n只要不是個人．比如說他如果成立一個合作社．就是他只要是一個法人．或者是一個機構．他都可以來申請自願檢查專案．對,他就個人不行．對,個人不行．所以只要是農民團體也可以嗎．可以．如果他是有成立一個團體的話．是沒有問題．所以農民團體也可以協助我們的農民．因為你必須要告訴．而且但是現在目前．\n\n07:26.622 --> 07:36.545\n方法論都沒有出來怎麼樣子協助他們對於土壤的碳費這樣子能夠增加他們綠色收益嗎不要讓他們變成就是未來會綠色通膨的這樣子的一個受害者嗎對,農業部的這個土壤的減量方法論我們會加快跟農業部討論怎麼快速的讓他減量方法論可以過因為減量方法論其實國際上我們也希望跟國際是對標的啦那這樣產出的碳權\n\n07:56.223 --> 07:57.164\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長就\n\n08:11.243 --> 08:34.793\n就是你現在講的都是關於螺絲控件、鋼鐵相關的但是對於中小企業過去你們有以大代小以及減碳的輔導相關的這樣子的措施但是我認為對於未來中小企業會面臨到的相關的這些綠色的成本怎麼樣子降低你必須要協助他們\n\n08:36.087 --> 09:02.319\n會,會,我們其實剛剛講的那個只是講針對特定的產業,因為它面臨這樣一次比較急迫性,所以有一個比較專案的計畫,那其他的我們會一般性的計畫,我們目前都有減碳或節能的計畫,再來協助這些中小企業,尤其是我們中技術這邊就有相關計畫在執行。好,好,謝謝喔,謝謝主席。謝謝,謝謝鳳委員非常精準的質詢。來,次長請回座。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.589,"end":27.396,"text":"請謝一鳳委員謝謝主席我想要請我們聯次長跟我們環境部的施次長不好意思可以幫我把那個關掉一下嗎這個是誰的"},{"start":31.389,"end":57.132,"text":"我想請問一下兩位次長就是我們現在臺灣的碳費它涵蓋的是54%然後500個工廠跟281家企業但是我想要請問我們增碳費的最大的原因就是為了可以抵銷就是歐盟的那個CBAM 對不對那有多少人可以抵銷歐盟CBAM"},{"start":60.06,"end":63.943,"text":"應該是鋼鐵就是扣件因為我們歐盟CBAM它有一些繳費的對象並不是我們碳費收費的對象所以不是全部的人都需要繳因為他們所使用的原料鋼在我們這邊是會收碳費的"},{"start":82.139,"end":104.811,"text":"我們也在跟歐盟去談說這個如果他的原料比如說扣件業因為扣件業台灣是目前大部分是不用繳碳費但他們所使用的原料鋼如果用中鋼這個我們是有的所以我們在因為歐盟自己對於他要怎麼抵扣的計算還沒有出來但是我們的碳費確實是他的法規當中所承認可以抵扣的"},{"start":107.995,"end":134.973,"text":"請問因為目前歐盟CBAM也是一個過渡期那就是說廠商必須要申報進口產品的碳含量但是目前我們如果按照我們的預設值來申報那到底歐盟會不會認定我們在台灣申報的這樣子的第三方的單位查證呢?"},{"start":135.213,"end":136.305,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":137.748,"end":166.597,"text":"目前就是在這個產品在做申報的時候先不用做查證這是一個那第二個就是呢等2026年歐盟實際要收錢就是要去買這個CBAM憑證的時候他的這個產品碳含量才需要查證這是第一點跟委員報告目前不用碳對目前在申報的過程還不用那第二點再跟委員報告就是說未來在真的實際要繳CBAM憑證的時候他只收產品的直接排放"},{"start":167.113,"end":168.674,"text":"二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助規劃"},{"start":194.17,"end":196.451,"text":"二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之規劃。"},{"start":223.894,"end":241.304,"text":"呃這個我跟我們報告是我們環境部明年開始就會有一個這個駐歐盟的代表所以我們會跟歐盟去談說認證查驗機構可不可以有可能取得相互認證所以這一塊在歐盟自己的規則還在這個草擬的過程當中我們趕快想要趁這個機會跟他去談那就是根據我們根據我們經濟部的統計喔市長"},{"start":248.948,"end":268.922,"text":"有鋼鐵的相關扣件還有鋁製的產業它就有2000多家是出口到歐盟去那不少都是中小企業那其中有3500家會受到CBAM的影響那這個對於我們國內的中小企業有什麼樣子的影響"},{"start":269.642,"end":279.172,"text":"跟委員報告這三應該是本來是有4000多家那後來他們我們有全部跟我們貿易署這邊一起全部調查後來有說將近3560幾家就是說他要來接受我們的輔導還有申報"},{"start":284.798,"end":287.601,"text":"二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之配套措施．及政府協助企業因應之"},{"start":305.88,"end":315.687,"text":"這一塊我們是有成立一個專案計畫有全部來協助他把這個碳的含量把它降低下來甚至在上游中鋼那部分我們也有去做了一些處理"},{"start":317.49,"end":340.565,"text":"我是想要了解如果目前因為我去了解我們地方的民眾我們也希望說能夠協助小農去讓他們有碳匯然後可以來進行碳交易那增加農民的收入可是目前我看到了相關的環境部你們到底有沒有就這些農民給予協助啊"},{"start":341.685,"end":347.348,"text":"跟委員報告就是如果要依照我們的自願減量管理辦法要來取得碳權要先有一個減量方法論那土壤碳會的這一個議題因為目前國內還沒有減量方法那農業部已經好像打算有在研擬這個減量方法所以我們等這個我們會跟農業部就是加快腳步去看說"},{"start":363.476,"end":367.579,"text":"因為現在碳權交易所已經開始了那結果我們的農民、我們的漁民以及我們相關的民眾都沒有辦法申請相關的碳權那在這樣子的情況下就是說環境部你怎麼樣子協助?"},{"start":389.339,"end":418.842,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們的這個碳交所上架的碳權是2015年之後我們就有做抵換專案那都是比較偏製造業那再來就是自願減量專案因為整個這個投資包括要查驗證它的這個資本跟技術投入比較大所以我們的自願減量管理辦法裡面是有提到說個人沒有辦法申請一定是要透過這個政府機關或者是這個團體來做申請那什麼樣子的可以申請團體的部分"},{"start":419.981,"end":445.801,"text":"只要不是個人．比如說他如果成立一個合作社．就是他只要是一個法人．或者是一個機構．他都可以來申請自願檢查專案．對,他就個人不行．對,個人不行．所以只要是農民團體也可以嗎．可以．如果他是有成立一個團體的話．是沒有問題．所以農民團體也可以協助我們的農民．因為你必須要告訴．而且但是現在目前．"},{"start":446.622,"end":456.545,"text":"方法論都沒有出來怎麼樣子協助他們對於土壤的碳費這樣子能夠增加他們綠色收益嗎不要讓他們變成就是未來會綠色通膨的這樣子的一個受害者嗎對,農業部的這個土壤的減量方法論我們會加快跟農業部討論怎麼快速的讓他減量方法論可以過因為減量方法論其實國際上我們也希望跟國際是對標的啦那這樣產出的碳權"},{"start":476.223,"end":477.164,"text":"二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長就"},{"start":491.243,"end":514.793,"text":"就是你現在講的都是關於螺絲控件、鋼鐵相關的但是對於中小企業過去你們有以大代小以及減碳的輔導相關的這樣子的措施但是我認為對於未來中小企業會面臨到的相關的這些綠色的成本怎麼樣子降低你必須要協助他們"},{"start":516.087,"end":542.319,"text":"會,會,我們其實剛剛講的那個只是講針對特定的產業,因為它面臨這樣一次比較急迫性,所以有一個比較專案的計畫,那其他的我們會一般性的計畫,我們目前都有減碳或節能的計畫,再來協助這些中小企業,尤其是我們中技術這邊就有相關計畫在執行。好,好,謝謝喔,謝謝主席。謝謝,謝謝鳳委員非常精準的質詢。來,次長請回座。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":294,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（10時3分）謝謝主席，我想要請連次長和環境部施次長。"],["主席：請經濟部連次長、環境部施次長。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我想請問兩位次長，現在臺灣的碳費涵蓋是54%，含500家工廠及281家企業，但是我想要請問，我們課徵碳費的最大原因就是為了可以抵銷歐盟CBAM，對不對？有多少人可以抵銷歐盟CBAM？"],["連次長錦漳：應該是鋼鐵。"],["施次長文真：應該是鋼鐵，就是扣件，因為歐盟CBAM有一些繳費的對象，並不是我們碳費收費的對象，但是他們所使用……"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以不是全部的人都需要繳？"],["施次長文真：可是因為他們所使用的原料鋼在我們這邊是會收碳費的，所以我們也在跟歐盟談，如果它的原料，比如扣件業，因為扣件業在臺灣目前大部分是不用繳碳費，但他們所使用的原料鋼，如果用中鋼，這個我們是有收碳費的，因為歐盟自己對於要怎麼抵扣的計算還沒有出來，但是我們的碳費確實是它的法規當中所承認可以抵扣的碳定價的措施。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那請問，因為目前歐盟CBAM也是一個過渡期，而廠商必須申報進口產品的碳含量，但是目前我們如果按照我們的預設值來申報，到底歐盟會不會認定我們在臺灣申報這樣的第三方單位的查證呢？"],["施次長文真：目前就是產品在做申報的時候先不用做查證，這是一個；第二個就是等2026年歐盟實際要收錢，就是要去買這個CBAM憑證的時候，其產品的碳含量才需要查證，這是第一點跟委員報告的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以目前不用碳查證？"],["施次長文真：對，目前在申報的過程還不用；第二點再跟委員報告的是，未來真的實際要繳CBAM憑證的時候，歐盟只收產品的直接排放，間接排放是不用繳CBAM憑證的，這兩點跟委員報告。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那什麼是直接排放？什麼是間接排放？"],["施次長文真：直接排放就是在製程當中的排放，間接排放簡單的說就是使用電力的排放。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以只要繳直接排放，不用繳交電力的相關排放？"],["施次長文真：對，這個是2026年CBAM憑證真的需要去買的時候，也再跟委員報告，因為歐盟目前總量管制跟交易還有免費配額，所以要繳多少CBAM憑證還會扣掉現在在自己境內有免費配額的這個額度，所以它是逐漸去降境內的免費配額，然後CBAM憑證才會逐漸往上拉，這個部分跟委員再報告。"],["謝委員衣鳯：可是歐盟現在只有認證他們境內的第三方驗證的單位，未來這個部分我們要怎麼樣協助我們的廠商？不然繳這個碳費也沒有用啊，是不是？"],["施次長文真：跟委員報告，我們環境部明年開始就會有一個駐歐盟的代表，所以我們會跟歐盟談認證查驗機構可不可以有可能取得相互認證，所以這一塊歐盟自己的規則還在草擬的過程當中，我們想要趕快趁這個機會跟歐盟談。"],["謝委員衣鳯：根據我們經濟部的統計，次長，鋼鐵的相關扣件還有鋁製的產業，就有兩千多家是出口到歐盟，不少都是中小企業，其中有3,500家會受到CBAM的影響，這個對於我們國內的中小企業有什麼樣的影響？"],["連次長錦漳：跟委員報告，應該本來是有四千多家，我們有跟我們貿易署這邊一起全部做調查，後來差不多有將近三千五百六十幾家要來接受我們的輔導還有申報，後來真正申報的應該只有兩千三還是兩千四百家，這裡面有包含一些貿易商，我們全部都已經協助它完成申報了，當然這個某種程度……因為它本來不用繳這個稅，它會繳這個稅，我們目前其實在……應該是最近兩年，我們針對南部的螺絲螺帽扣件這一塊有成立一個專案計畫，有全部來協助它把碳的含量降低下來，甚至在上游中鋼那一部分，我們也有去做了一些處理。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我是想要了解，如果目前……因為我有去了解我們地方的民眾，我們也希望能夠協助小農讓他們有碳匯，然後可以來進行碳交易，增加農民的收入，可是目前我看到了相關的……環境部，你們到底有沒有就這些農民給予協助？"],["施次長文真：跟委員報告，如果要依照我們的自願減量管理辦法來取得碳權，要先有一個減量方法論，關於土壤碳匯這個議題，因為目前國內還沒有減量方法，農業部好像有在研擬這個減量方法，所以我們會跟農業部加快腳步去看土壤碳匯的減量方法論，如果可以儘快通過的話，我們就有這個方法論來供農民使用。"],["謝委員衣鳯：因為現在碳權交易所已經開始了。"],["施次長文真：對。"],["謝委員衣鳯：結果我們的農民、我們的漁民，以及我們相關的民眾，都沒有辦法申請相關的碳權，在這樣的情況下，環境部怎麼樣來協助？"],["施次長文真：跟委員報告，因為碳交所上架的碳權是2015年之後，我們就有做抵換專案，那都是比較偏製造業，再來就是自願減量專案，因為整個投資包括要查驗證，這個資本跟技術投入比較大，所以我們的自願減量管理辦法裡面是有提到個人沒有辦法申請，一定是要透過政府機關，或者是團體來做申請。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那什麼樣子的可以申請？團體的部分。"],["施次長文真：只要不是個人，比如說如果是成立一個合作社，就是只要是一個法人或者是一個機構都可以來申請自願減量專案。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以要以法人或者是合作社？"],["施次長文真：對，個人不行。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以只要是農民團體也可以嗎？"],["施次長文真：可以、可以，如果是有成立一個團體的話是沒有問題。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以農民團體也可以協助我們的農民，因為你必須要告訴……但是目前方法論都沒有出來，怎麼樣協助他們，對於土壤的碳費，這樣能夠增加他們的綠色收益，不要讓他們變成未來綠色通膨這樣子的受害者。"],["施次長文真：對，農業部的土壤的減量方法論，我們會加快跟農業部討論怎麼快速地讓減量方法論可以過，因為減量方法論其實在國際上，我們也希望跟國際是對標的，這樣產出碳權的價格還有其環境完整性也會比較高一點，所以這一塊最起碼減量方法論我們要趕快先建立起來，那建立起來之後再看看使用的狀況，這個我們都會……"],["謝委員衣鳯：好。連次長，我最後有一個問題問你，你現在講的都是關於螺絲扣件、鋼鐵相關的，但是對於中小企業，過去你們有以大帶小以及減碳的輔導相關措施，但是我認為對於未來中小企業會面臨到相關的綠色成本怎麼樣降低，你必須要協助他們。"],["連次長錦漳：會、會，剛剛講的那個只是針對特定的產業，因為它面臨這樣一次比較急迫性，所以有一個比較專案的計畫，那其他的我們會用一般性的計畫，我們目前都有減碳或節能的計畫來協助這些中小企業，尤其是我們中企署這邊就有相關的計畫在執行。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，謝謝，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝謝衣鳯委員非常精準的質詢，次長請回座，我今天的聲音比較有磁性。","下一位質詢請呂玉玲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":52,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-7","speakers":["邱志偉","林岱樺","邱議瑩","楊瓊瓔","張嘉郡","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","呂玉玲","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鄭正鈐","蔡易餘","賴瑞隆","牛煦庭","王鴻薇","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","廖偉翔","陳超明"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1138702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138702_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長就「我國碳費徵收機制對產業衝擊之影響評估，及政府協助企\n業因應之配套措施」進行報告，並備質詢；二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長就\n「我國碳邊境調整機制（CBAM）推動規劃」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138702_00001"}}}