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\"思\", \"start\": 74.85, \"end\": 75.93, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 75.93, \"end\": 75.97, \"score\": 0.54}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 75.97, \"end\": 75.99, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}]}, {\"start\": 77.871, \"end\": 94.467, \"text\": \"蘇院長雖然沒選上市長可是可是他當了院長理論上這塊地是文化部的院長就可以直接蓋了但是也拖非常久那拖了三年之後呢在2021年的時候蘇院長忽然當時的院長忽然跑到板橋說要給兒童一個大禮啊那個時候是2021年的時候\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"蘇\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 77.871, \"end\": 78.011, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"雖\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 78.011, \"end\": 78.332, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 78.332, \"end\": 78.592, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 78.592, \"end\": 78.772, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 78.772, \"end\": 79.173, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 79.173, \"end\": 79.333, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 79.333, \"end\": 79.593, \"score\": 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0.882}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"兒\"}, {\"word\": \"童\", \"start\": 92.965, \"end\": 93.146, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 93.146, \"end\": 93.366, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 93.366, \"end\": 93.726, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"禮\"}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 93.726, \"end\": 93.926, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 93.926, \"end\": 94.126, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 94.126, \"end\": 94.307, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 94.307, \"end\": 94.327, \"score\": 0.004}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 94.327, \"end\": 94.387, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 94.387, \"end\": 94.447, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 94.447, \"end\": 94.467, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 96.889, \"end\": 115.085, \"text\": \"當時兒童非常興奮2018年被他一開始宣布的時候2018年兒童本來很興奮等了三年終於有進度了那個時候是2021年那時候兒童想說終於有大禮了結果後來到了2022年因為又碰到選舉了所以又有進度了那時候又講說要增加預算要變成130億\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"兒\"}, {\"word\": \"童\", \"start\": 96.889, \"end\": 97.269, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 97.269, \"end\": 98.33, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 98.33, \"end\": 98.49, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"興\"}, {\"word\": \"奮\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 98.49, \"end\": 98.731, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 98.731, \"end\": 100.132, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 100.132, \"end\": 100.272, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 100.272, \"end\": 100.452, \"score\": 0.712}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 100.452, \"end\": 100.532, \"score\": 0.556}, {\"word\": \"宣\", \"start\": 100.532, \"end\": 100.712, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"布\", \"start\": 100.712, \"end\": 100.812, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 100.812, \"end\": 101.073, \"score\": 0.74}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 101.073, \"end\": 101.553, \"score\": 0.704}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 101.553, \"end\": 101.833, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"兒\"}, {\"word\": \"童\", \"start\": 101.833, \"end\": 102.013, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 102.013, \"end\": 102.133, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 102.133, \"end\": 102.494, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"興\"}, {\"word\": \"奮\"}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 102.494, \"end\": 102.854, \"score\": 0.71}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 102.854, \"end\": 103.034, \"score\": 0.731}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 103.034, \"end\": 103.214, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 103.214, \"end\": 103.595, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"終\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 103.595, \"end\": 103.635, \"score\": 0.38}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 103.635, \"end\": 103.995, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 103.995, \"end\": 104.175, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 104.175, \"end\": 104.415, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 104.415, \"end\": 104.656, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 104.656, \"end\": 104.876, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 104.876, \"end\": 105.757, \"score\": 0.74}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 105.757, \"end\": 106.097, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 106.097, \"end\": 106.317, \"score\": 0.741}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 106.317, \"end\": 106.437, \"score\": 0.628}, {\"word\": \"兒\"}, {\"word\": \"童\", \"start\": 106.437, \"end\": 106.597, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 106.597, \"end\": 107.098, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"終\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 107.098, \"end\": 107.178, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 107.178, \"end\": 107.358, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 107.358, \"end\": 107.738, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"禮\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 107.738, \"end\": 108.599, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 108.599, \"end\": 108.739, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 108.739, \"end\": 109.68, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 109.68, \"end\": 109.82, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 109.82, \"end\": 110.441, \"score\": 0.762}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 110.441, \"end\": 110.981, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 110.981, \"end\": 111.542, \"score\": 0.937}, 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\"start\": 775.044, \"end\": 775.624, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 775.624, \"end\": 776.025, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"牛\", \"start\": 776.025, \"end\": 776.285, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"深\", \"start\": 776.285, \"end\": 776.705, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"惡\"}, {\"word\": \"痛\", \"start\": 776.705, \"end\": 776.965, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"絕\"}, {\"word\": \"阿\", \"start\": 776.965, \"end\": 776.985, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"葉\"}, {\"word\": \"元\", \"start\": 778.987, \"end\": 779.187, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 779.187, \"end\": 779.387, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 779.387, \"end\": 779.407, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:16,801 --> 00:00:21,445\n主席請找請文化部部長李部長請\n\n2\n00:00:26,605 --> 00:00:47,380\n葉委員你好部長好先跟部長報告一下我們半橋有一個現在文化部力推的兒童未來博物館總經費165億是一個非常大的建設那部長因為是今年5月20號才到任我先跟部長講一下這個建設其實已經延宕非常久了過去大家在地方把這個建設講成一個選舉服務館每到選舉才有進度\n\n3\n00:00:50,862 --> 00:01:15,990\n那第一次是2018年的時候當時前院長蘇貞昌在競選新北市長的時候他說每一次經過這個地這個地叫特專山每次經過這個地方就因為都看到是最貴的機車停車場而如果是他來做市長的話會在100天之內取得用地馬上開始蓋這他講的因為很就是會很不舒服的意思結果後來\n\n4\n00:01:17,871 --> 00:01:34,467\n蘇院長雖然沒選上市長可是可是他當了院長理論上這塊地是文化部的院長就可以直接蓋了但是也拖非常久那拖了三年之後呢在2021年的時候蘇院長忽然當時的院長忽然跑到板橋說要給兒童一個大禮啊那個時候是2021年的時候\n\n5\n00:01:36,889 --> 00:01:55,085\n當時兒童非常興奮2018年被他一開始宣布的時候2018年兒童本來很興奮等了三年終於有進度了那個時候是2021年那時候兒童想說終於有大禮了結果後來到了2022年因為又碰到選舉了所以又有進度了那時候又講說要增加預算要變成130億\n\n6\n00:01:59,088 --> 00:02:22,839\n然後就隔一年2023年又快到選舉了又有進度了說要辦一個建築師成果的發表而且是總預算要從130億變成165億那2023年的時候距離第一次這個兒童未來館宣布已經過5年了那時候的兒童如果12歲已經是青少年了快成年了所以當時的兒童失望了那我們現在進度是說2023年要完成嘛對不對\n\n7\n00:02:26,633 --> 00:02:50,891\n二零三零年完成嗎二零三零嗎對不對好那院長有信心會如質如實的在二零二三年完成嗎我覺得我很謝謝你問這個問題我們大概是去年發包由那個日本的伊東李雄跟台灣的那個陳馬龍陳玉玲事務所標到之後我們的進度到目前為止完全是按照\n\n8\n00:02:51,691 --> 00:03:08,378\n進度沒有地雷然後我自己那個一通風雄也值得要見我說想要知道我要做什麼所以我們見過一次非常仔細的碰面然後彼此表達對這個未來未來館的想像就我們談得非常愉快因為他看起來年紀\n\n9\n00:03:09,258 --> 00:03:12,140\n麻煩大家了解先請你宣示一下2030年會讀資助士完工那因為你知道2030年距離2018那時候蘇貞昌第一次宣布已經過12年了那時候兒童已經成年了\n\n10\n00:03:25,167 --> 00:03:30,129\n那現在小朋友開始進入這個狀態的那他變成高中或者國中的時候這個管就蓋好OK不然我覺得很糟蹋真的啦對部長真的不要再欺騙兒童了那部長但是最近有一個家長跟我爆料\n\n11\n00:03:49,378 --> 00:03:51,000\n這個國家兒童未來館辦了一個活動這個活動找一些兒童去到這個場館的場地然後就發給他們一些簡單的建材就叫他們組裝啊設計陷阱啊什麼的據這個家長跟我講這個活動基本上蠻無聊的\n\n12\n00:04:06,420 --> 00:04:32,307\n然後這個活動的目的呢可能是想要藉由激發兒童想像力吧導入兒童的參與設計讓兒童參與這個過程當中可以分享一些他們參與活動的想法然後並且跟家長互動所以這個主辦單位有請家長後來填問卷那家長認為說那個問卷其實都有引導性就是想要引導說引導出可能那個主辦單位想像的樣子但他自己對於這樣的活動他認為沒有什麼成效\n\n13\n00:04:32,867 --> 00:04:42,915\n然後這個活動後來也有發餐盒那個餐盒就家長覺得也是蠻遜的所以總而言之基本上這是一個有經費的活動總共辦了兩場但部長我覺得非常奇怪的是這個總共165億的這個這麼大的案子\n\n14\n00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:57,144\n當然他中間是因為工程關係所以比較貴但我們辦公室想了解一下欸你忽然間沒來遊的辦了這兩個活動大家覺得很奇怪啊因為你要現在的兒童來決定可能未來6年的場館的設計現在的科技日新月異啊\n\n15\n00:05:06,449 --> 00:05:31,539\n6年前還沒有AI但現在AI的發展是日新月異非常的迅速那所以當然我們覺得很奇怪我們想要了解一下這活動到底目的是什麼然後總共花了多少錢有沒有浪費預算這個是我們立委的天職結果文化部居然搞黑箱不給我資料他說這個預算大概就是統包在整個委託設計跟建造技術服務的6億元裡面\n\n16\n00:05:34,020 --> 00:05:56,726\n總共辦了兩場分兩個場次一場是38人一場36人全部統包在6億裡面就是說意思就是我不會告訴你多少錢反正在6億裡面不然你覺得可以這樣嗎那以後所有的6億裡面的這個項目全部都用這種方式來回復大家都不用去看說他到底花多少錢你覺得這樣可以嗎我可不可以回答你那兩個活動我沒有參加\n\n17\n00:05:57,546 --> 00:05:58,087\n午後我參加會變更有趣\n\n18\n00:06:13,308 --> 00:06:21,915\n院長不要我跟你講因為我們質詢時間有限沒辦法從盤古開天開始講但是你也講到一個問題就是說我們想要了解有沒有亂花預算因為家長參與的體驗是覺得這個沒有效但是你為什麼沒來遊辦了兩個活動花多少錢不給資料這樣對嗎這一點我請我們的館長回答好嗎館長花多少錢\n\n19\n00:06:37,159 --> 00:07:04,129\n你好具體說明一下這個案子我們沒有另外發包這個案子其實它的源頭不是為了辦一個活動這個是在建築室的設計的委員有來索取過我們的需求說明書裡面有講建築師完成規劃的時候要把它的成果要辦一個工作坊來徵詢兒童的意見它的背景是這樣子所以還是有預算因為建築師不是做公益所以他一定還是有支出\n\n20\n00:07:05,217 --> 00:07:24,293\n對那確實他就是建築師所以我們的答案我們當時回報的時候是很誠實的跟報告是說確實就是在建築師他的建築設計那還是有費用因為你是統包案嘛你6億是一個算是他的所有支出都在6億裡面嘛但是他還是有分項嘛我是問你分項的預算嘛為什麼不能給勒\n\n21\n00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:38,005\n一百六十幾億這麼大規模金額裡面到底多少錢立法院是不能知道的這就是你們文化部的態度那另外我繼續問部長那現在兒童未來館你最近有經過嗎他是不是還是最貴機車停車場\n\n22\n00:07:45,251 --> 00:07:55,802\n是2018年讓蘇貞昌前院長按起的最貴機車停車場還是吧我最近才剛去在下著大雨的時候我去看我們今天質詢不是寫小說好不好是不是還是最貴機車停車場那個地方\n\n23\n00:08:01,447 --> 00:08:09,574\n那個地方如果能給兒童用我就非常感動是不是最貴機車停車場你講不出來喔就是好不好最貴兒童最貴的未來兒童館的所在地但是現在是最貴機車停車場所以代表說他目前為止他都還沒有實體上還沒有任何進展我都實體還在設計當中結果你看喔我們這個國家兒童未來館籌備處已經花了100萬出國考察了\n\n24\n00:08:31,067 --> 00:08:31,589\n為什麽要100萬出國考察部長\n\n25\n00:08:37,898 --> 00:09:03,374\n你這樣問我就答不上來因為我們在計畫中本來就是大概請問一下這考察效益是什麼請他回答報告一下我們在我們的預算裡面編列的出國預算是裡面我們去參觀了美國的兒童博物館跟歐洲的兒童博物館在讓他們參觀他們的硬體跟他們的展示設計能夠回饋在我們的後續的展示就是去參觀兒童博物館嗎是那出國報告呢\n\n26\n00:09:05,171 --> 00:09:24,759\n出國報告我們在三個月內我們都會提交三個月內你是什麼時候出去的你本人有出去嗎我我酒暑假的時候出去對我們第一本已經沒有交沒有考察報我們查不到啊我們會在期限內一定會叫期限內期限內什麼時候按照法令是三個月三個月所以這個是一個曠世巨作就對了\n\n27\n00:09:26,417 --> 00:09:50,500\n我等著看你們花100萬錢是怎麼花的所以部長今天問了兩個問題你答不出來因為你可能也乍聽之下也覺得怎麼會這樣那請你緊盯這個案子因為這是地方的期待而且以你剛剛講的辦這種活動你參加就會更豐富更精彩我們期待你來參加希望你多花點心思在這個我們這個案子上面\n\n28\n00:09:51,221 --> 00:10:17,723\n其實我都很喜歡身體力行啊但你要說到做到啦因為我跟你講備詢是就是論事講一套做一套不是講得天花亂墜不會不會對不對你答應我的我答應接下來我們來看一個最近大家很關心的黃牛票下一頁因為周杰倫演唱會中午的時候就要開始買可以開始買了嘛那我們不知道對於黃牛票有沒有一些防弊的機制有嗎\n\n29\n00:10:18,524 --> 00:10:34,111\n有阿有好那部長你看齁這個是我們隨便在網路上查的周杰倫票代購你就可以看到了一堆都是網路代購而且加價加得非常誇張比如說面額6,880塊的每張代購價可以到19,376這個為什麼這個為什麼不知道欸這沒有去查嗎這個沒有去查嗎\n\n30\n00:10:43,618 --> 00:11:04,010\n我們從來是受你檢舉後才調的不是啦那如果沒有人檢舉你就讓這事情發生喔你知道很多黃牛都是用掃票機器人所以很多代購公司為什麼他可以承諾他可以幫忙代購就是他有把握可以一次買到大量的門票嘛所以才可以告訴你說一張6880我可以你給我一萬九我就幫你代購你覺得這樣合理嗎部長\n\n31\n00:11:08,809 --> 00:11:31,437\n合理嗎當然不合理那為什麼沒有去查你不能被動受理檢舉啊其實針對黃牛我剛才前面已經回答過我們其實都我們動員了非常多的我跟你講這個不是找你麻煩這我是google的周杰倫代購就有的網衆一大堆請你們主動去稽查好嗎然後你們之前花了兩千多萬成立一個打黃牛的辦公室我們來看一下成效打黃牛辦公室委託了律師事務所幫我把那一頁叫出來你看\n\n32\n00:11:39,625 --> 00:11:57,215\n總共檢舉案件就是你講的要檢舉嘛總共總共從112年6月到113年9月檢舉了2802件但是大部分一半以上都不符合形式就直接退件只有受理了1059件然後最後裁罰70件1059件如果除以15個月大概一個月是70件左右\n\n33\n00:12:03,171 --> 00:12:18,701\n那七十件一天大概兩三件結果我們花兩三千萬委託律師事務所成立這個打黃牛辦公室裡面有大概十個人編制每一天只處理大概兩三件我不知道這種打黃牛辦公室效益何在\n\n34\n00:12:20,367 --> 00:12:20,747\n他結束了,對,對,對,對,對\n\n35\n00:12:40,393 --> 00:12:56,985\n我們是不是請部長會後再所以第一你到黃牛辦公室成效你去查清楚好不好那到底需不需要花這個錢做這個事第二不是被動接受檢舉要主動主動去查因為現在的民眾對於黃牛深惡痛絕阿\n\n36\n00:12:58,987 --> 00:12:59,407\n謝謝葉元之委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n16801\t21445\t主席請找請文化部部長李部長請\n26605\t47380\t葉委員你好部長好先跟部長報告一下我們半橋有一個現在文化部力推的兒童未來博物館總經費165億是一個非常大的建設那部長因為是今年5月20號才到任我先跟部長講一下這個建設其實已經延宕非常久了過去大家在地方把這個建設講成一個選舉服務館每到選舉才有進度\n50862\t75990\t那第一次是2018年的時候當時前院長蘇貞昌在競選新北市長的時候他說每一次經過這個地這個地叫特專山每次經過這個地方就因為都看到是最貴的機車停車場而如果是他來做市長的話會在100天之內取得用地馬上開始蓋這他講的因為很就是會很不舒服的意思結果後來\n77871\t94467\t蘇院長雖然沒選上市長可是可是他當了院長理論上這塊地是文化部的院長就可以直接蓋了但是也拖非常久那拖了三年之後呢在2021年的時候蘇院長忽然當時的院長忽然跑到板橋說要給兒童一個大禮啊那個時候是2021年的時候\n96889\t115085\t當時兒童非常興奮2018年被他一開始宣布的時候2018年兒童本來很興奮等了三年終於有進度了那個時候是2021年那時候兒童想說終於有大禮了結果後來到了2022年因為又碰到選舉了所以又有進度了那時候又講說要增加預算要變成130億\n119088\t142839\t然後就隔一年2023年又快到選舉了又有進度了說要辦一個建築師成果的發表而且是總預算要從130億變成165億那2023年的時候距離第一次這個兒童未來館宣布已經過5年了那時候的兒童如果12歲已經是青少年了快成年了所以當時的兒童失望了那我們現在進度是說2023年要完成嘛對不對\n146633\t170891\t二零三零年完成嗎二零三零嗎對不對好那院長有信心會如質如實的在二零二三年完成嗎我覺得我很謝謝你問這個問題我們大概是去年發包由那個日本的伊東李雄跟台灣的那個陳馬龍陳玉玲事務所標到之後我們的進度到目前為止完全是按照\n171691\t188378\t進度沒有地雷然後我自己那個一通風雄也值得要見我說想要知道我要做什麼所以我們見過一次非常仔細的碰面然後彼此表達對這個未來未來館的想像就我們談得非常愉快因為他看起來年紀\n189258\t192140\t麻煩大家了解先請你宣示一下2030年會讀資助士完工那因為你知道2030年距離2018那時候蘇貞昌第一次宣布已經過12年了那時候兒童已經成年了\n205167\t210129\t那現在小朋友開始進入這個狀態的那他變成高中或者國中的時候這個管就蓋好OK不然我覺得很糟蹋真的啦對部長真的不要再欺騙兒童了那部長但是最近有一個家長跟我爆料\n229378\t231000\t這個國家兒童未來館辦了一個活動這個活動找一些兒童去到這個場館的場地然後就發給他們一些簡單的建材就叫他們組裝啊設計陷阱啊什麼的據這個家長跟我講這個活動基本上蠻無聊的\n246420\t272307\t然後這個活動的目的呢可能是想要藉由激發兒童想像力吧導入兒童的參與設計讓兒童參與這個過程當中可以分享一些他們參與活動的想法然後並且跟家長互動所以這個主辦單位有請家長後來填問卷那家長認為說那個問卷其實都有引導性就是想要引導說引導出可能那個主辦單位想像的樣子但他自己對於這樣的活動他認為沒有什麼成效\n272867\t282915\t然後這個活動後來也有發餐盒那個餐盒就家長覺得也是蠻遜的所以總而言之基本上這是一個有經費的活動總共辦了兩場但部長我覺得非常奇怪的是這個總共165億的這個這麼大的案子\n290080\t297144\t當然他中間是因為工程關係所以比較貴但我們辦公室想了解一下欸你忽然間沒來遊的辦了這兩個活動大家覺得很奇怪啊因為你要現在的兒童來決定可能未來6年的場館的設計現在的科技日新月異啊\n306449\t331539\t6年前還沒有AI但現在AI的發展是日新月異非常的迅速那所以當然我們覺得很奇怪我們想要了解一下這活動到底目的是什麼然後總共花了多少錢有沒有浪費預算這個是我們立委的天職結果文化部居然搞黑箱不給我資料他說這個預算大概就是統包在整個委託設計跟建造技術服務的6億元裡面\n334020\t356726\t總共辦了兩場分兩個場次一場是38人一場36人全部統包在6億裡面就是說意思就是我不會告訴你多少錢反正在6億裡面不然你覺得可以這樣嗎那以後所有的6億裡面的這個項目全部都用這種方式來回復大家都不用去看說他到底花多少錢你覺得這樣可以嗎我可不可以回答你那兩個活動我沒有參加\n357546\t358087\t午後我參加會變更有趣\n373308\t381915\t院長不要 我跟你講因為我們質詢時間有限沒辦法從盤古開天開始講但是你也講到一個問題就是說我們想要了解有沒有亂花預算因為家長參與的體驗是覺得這個沒有效但是你為什麼沒來遊辦了兩個活動花多少錢不給資料這樣對嗎這一點我請我們的館長回答好嗎館長花多少錢\n397159\t424129\t你好具體說明一下這個案子我們沒有另外發包這個案子其實它的源頭不是為了辦一個活動這個是在建築室的設計的委員有來索取過我們的需求說明書裡面有講建築師完成規劃的時候要把它的成果要辦一個工作坊來徵詢兒童的意見它的背景是這樣子所以還是有預算因為建築師不是做公益所以他一定還是有支出\n425217\t444293\t對那確實他就是建築師所以我們的答案我們當時回報的時候是很誠實的跟報告是說確實就是在建築師他的建築設計那還是有費用因為你是統包案嘛你6億是一個算是他的所有支出都在6億裡面嘛但是他還是有分項嘛我是問你分項的預算嘛為什麼不能給勒\n450400\t458005\t一百六十幾億這麼大規模金額裡面到底多少錢立法院是不能知道的這就是你們文化部的態度那另外我繼續問部長那現在兒童未來館你最近有經過嗎他是不是還是最貴機車停車場\n465251\t475802\t是2018年讓蘇貞昌前院長按起的最貴機車停車場還是吧我最近才剛去在下著大雨的時候我去看我們今天質詢不是寫小說好不好是不是還是最貴機車停車場那個地方\n481447\t489574\t那個地方如果能給兒童用我就非常感動是不是最貴機車停車場你講不出來喔就是好不好最貴兒童最貴的未來兒童館的所在地但是現在是最貴機車停車場所以代表說他目前為止他都還沒有實體上還沒有任何進展我都實體還在設計當中結果你看喔我們這個國家兒童未來館籌備處已經花了100萬出國考察了\n511067\t511589\t為什麽要100萬出國考察部長\n517898\t543374\t你這樣問我就答不上來因為我們在計畫中本來就是大概請問一下這考察效益是什麼請他回答報告一下我們在我們的預算裡面編列的出國預算是裡面我們去參觀了美國的兒童博物館跟歐洲的兒童博物館在讓他們參觀他們的硬體跟他們的展示設計能夠回饋在我們的後續的展示就是去參觀兒童博物館嗎是那出國報告呢\n545171\t564759\t出國報告我們在三個月內我們都會提交三個月內你是什麼時候出去的你本人有出去嗎我我酒暑假的時候出去對我們第一本已經沒有交沒有考察報我們查不到啊我們會在期限內一定會叫期限內期限內什麼時候按照法令是三個月三個月所以這個是一個曠世巨作就對了\n566417\t590500\t我等著看你們花100萬錢是怎麼花的所以部長今天問了兩個問題你答不出來因為你可能也乍聽之下也覺得怎麼會這樣那請你緊盯這個案子因為這是地方的期待而且以你剛剛講的辦這種活動你參加就會更豐富更精彩我們期待你來參加希望你多花點心思在這個我們這個案子上面\n591221\t617723\t其實我都很喜歡身體力行啊但你要說到做到啦因為我跟你講備詢是就是論事講一套做一套不是講得天花亂墜不會不會對不對你答應我的我答應接下來我們來看一個最近大家很關心的黃牛票下一頁因為周杰倫演唱會中午的時候就要開始買可以開始買了嘛那我們不知道對於黃牛票有沒有一些防弊的機制有嗎\n618524\t634111\t有阿有好那部長你看齁這個是我們隨便在網路上查的周杰倫票代購你就可以看到了一堆都是網路代購而且加價加得非常誇張比如說面額6,880塊的每張代購價可以到19,376這個為什麼這個為什麼不知道欸這沒有去查嗎這個沒有去查嗎\n643618\t664010\t我們從來是受你檢舉後才調的不是啦那如果沒有人檢舉你就讓這事情發生喔你知道很多黃牛都是用掃票機器人所以很多代購公司為什麼他可以承諾他可以幫忙代購就是他有把握可以一次買到大量的門票嘛所以才可以告訴你說一張6880我可以你給我一萬九我就幫你代購你覺得這樣合理嗎部長\n668809\t691437\t合理嗎當然不合理那為什麼沒有去查你不能被動受理檢舉啊其實針對黃牛我剛才前面已經回答過我們其實都我們動員了非常多的我跟你講這個不是找你麻煩這我是google的周杰倫代購就有的網衆一大堆請你們主動去稽查好嗎然後你們之前花了兩千多萬成立一個打黃牛的辦公室我們來看一下成效打黃牛辦公室委託了律師事務所幫我把那一頁叫出來你看\n699625\t717215\t總共檢舉案件就是你講的要檢舉嘛總共總共從112年6月到113年9月檢舉了2802件但是大部分一半以上都不符合形式就直接退件只有受理了1059件然後最後裁罰70件1059件如果除以15個月大概一個月是70件左右\n723171\t738701\t那七十件一天大概兩三件結果我們花兩三千萬委託律師事務所成立這個打黃牛辦公室裡面有大概十個人編制每一天只處理大概兩三件我不知道這種打黃牛辦公室效益何在\n740367\t740747\t他結束了,對,對,對,對,對\n760393\t776985\t我們是不是請部長會後再所以第一你到黃牛辦公室成效你去查清楚好不好那到底需不需要花這個錢做這個事第二不是被動接受檢舉要主動主動去查因為現在的民眾對於黃牛深惡痛絕阿\n778987\t779407\t謝謝葉元之委員\n","txt":"主席請找請文化部部長李部長請\n葉委員你好部長好先跟部長報告一下我們半橋有一個現在文化部力推的兒童未來博物館總經費165億是一個非常大的建設那部長因為是今年5月20號才到任我先跟部長講一下這個建設其實已經延宕非常久了過去大家在地方把這個建設講成一個選舉服務館每到選舉才有進度\n那第一次是2018年的時候當時前院長蘇貞昌在競選新北市長的時候他說每一次經過這個地這個地叫特專山每次經過這個地方就因為都看到是最貴的機車停車場而如果是他來做市長的話會在100天之內取得用地馬上開始蓋這他講的因為很就是會很不舒服的意思結果後來\n蘇院長雖然沒選上市長可是可是他當了院長理論上這塊地是文化部的院長就可以直接蓋了但是也拖非常久那拖了三年之後呢在2021年的時候蘇院長忽然當時的院長忽然跑到板橋說要給兒童一個大禮啊那個時候是2021年的時候\n當時兒童非常興奮2018年被他一開始宣布的時候2018年兒童本來很興奮等了三年終於有進度了那個時候是2021年那時候兒童想說終於有大禮了結果後來到了2022年因為又碰到選舉了所以又有進度了那時候又講說要增加預算要變成130億\n然後就隔一年2023年又快到選舉了又有進度了說要辦一個建築師成果的發表而且是總預算要從130億變成165億那2023年的時候距離第一次這個兒童未來館宣布已經過5年了那時候的兒童如果12歲已經是青少年了快成年了所以當時的兒童失望了那我們現在進度是說2023年要完成嘛對不對\n二零三零年完成嗎二零三零嗎對不對好那院長有信心會如質如實的在二零二三年完成嗎我覺得我很謝謝你問這個問題我們大概是去年發包由那個日本的伊東李雄跟台灣的那個陳馬龍陳玉玲事務所標到之後我們的進度到目前為止完全是按照\n進度沒有地雷然後我自己那個一通風雄也值得要見我說想要知道我要做什麼所以我們見過一次非常仔細的碰面然後彼此表達對這個未來未來館的想像就我們談得非常愉快因為他看起來年紀\n麻煩大家了解先請你宣示一下2030年會讀資助士完工那因為你知道2030年距離2018那時候蘇貞昌第一次宣布已經過12年了那時候兒童已經成年了\n那現在小朋友開始進入這個狀態的那他變成高中或者國中的時候這個管就蓋好OK不然我覺得很糟蹋真的啦對部長真的不要再欺騙兒童了那部長但是最近有一個家長跟我爆料\n這個國家兒童未來館辦了一個活動這個活動找一些兒童去到這個場館的場地然後就發給他們一些簡單的建材就叫他們組裝啊設計陷阱啊什麼的據這個家長跟我講這個活動基本上蠻無聊的\n然後這個活動的目的呢可能是想要藉由激發兒童想像力吧導入兒童的參與設計讓兒童參與這個過程當中可以分享一些他們參與活動的想法然後並且跟家長互動所以這個主辦單位有請家長後來填問卷那家長認為說那個問卷其實都有引導性就是想要引導說引導出可能那個主辦單位想像的樣子但他自己對於這樣的活動他認為沒有什麼成效\n然後這個活動後來也有發餐盒那個餐盒就家長覺得也是蠻遜的所以總而言之基本上這是一個有經費的活動總共辦了兩場但部長我覺得非常奇怪的是這個總共165億的這個這麼大的案子\n當然他中間是因為工程關係所以比較貴但我們辦公室想了解一下欸你忽然間沒來遊的辦了這兩個活動大家覺得很奇怪啊因為你要現在的兒童來決定可能未來6年的場館的設計現在的科技日新月異啊\n6年前還沒有AI但現在AI的發展是日新月異非常的迅速那所以當然我們覺得很奇怪我們想要了解一下這活動到底目的是什麼然後總共花了多少錢有沒有浪費預算這個是我們立委的天職結果文化部居然搞黑箱不給我資料他說這個預算大概就是統包在整個委託設計跟建造技術服務的6億元裡面\n總共辦了兩場分兩個場次一場是38人一場36人全部統包在6億裡面就是說意思就是我不會告訴你多少錢反正在6億裡面不然你覺得可以這樣嗎那以後所有的6億裡面的這個項目全部都用這種方式來回復大家都不用去看說他到底花多少錢你覺得這樣可以嗎我可不可以回答你那兩個活動我沒有參加\n午後我參加會變更有趣\n院長不要 我跟你講因為我們質詢時間有限沒辦法從盤古開天開始講但是你也講到一個問題就是說我們想要了解有沒有亂花預算因為家長參與的體驗是覺得這個沒有效但是你為什麼沒來遊辦了兩個活動花多少錢不給資料這樣對嗎這一點我請我們的館長回答好嗎館長花多少錢\n你好具體說明一下這個案子我們沒有另外發包這個案子其實它的源頭不是為了辦一個活動這個是在建築室的設計的委員有來索取過我們的需求說明書裡面有講建築師完成規劃的時候要把它的成果要辦一個工作坊來徵詢兒童的意見它的背景是這樣子所以還是有預算因為建築師不是做公益所以他一定還是有支出\n對那確實他就是建築師所以我們的答案我們當時回報的時候是很誠實的跟報告是說確實就是在建築師他的建築設計那還是有費用因為你是統包案嘛你6億是一個算是他的所有支出都在6億裡面嘛但是他還是有分項嘛我是問你分項的預算嘛為什麼不能給勒\n一百六十幾億這麼大規模金額裡面到底多少錢立法院是不能知道的這就是你們文化部的態度那另外我繼續問部長那現在兒童未來館你最近有經過嗎他是不是還是最貴機車停車場\n是2018年讓蘇貞昌前院長按起的最貴機車停車場還是吧我最近才剛去在下著大雨的時候我去看我們今天質詢不是寫小說好不好是不是還是最貴機車停車場那個地方\n那個地方如果能給兒童用我就非常感動是不是最貴機車停車場你講不出來喔就是好不好最貴兒童最貴的未來兒童館的所在地但是現在是最貴機車停車場所以代表說他目前為止他都還沒有實體上還沒有任何進展我都實體還在設計當中結果你看喔我們這個國家兒童未來館籌備處已經花了100萬出國考察了\n為什麽要100萬出國考察部長\n你這樣問我就答不上來因為我們在計畫中本來就是大概請問一下這考察效益是什麼請他回答報告一下我們在我們的預算裡面編列的出國預算是裡面我們去參觀了美國的兒童博物館跟歐洲的兒童博物館在讓他們參觀他們的硬體跟他們的展示設計能夠回饋在我們的後續的展示就是去參觀兒童博物館嗎是那出國報告呢\n出國報告我們在三個月內我們都會提交三個月內你是什麼時候出去的你本人有出去嗎我我酒暑假的時候出去對我們第一本已經沒有交沒有考察報我們查不到啊我們會在期限內一定會叫期限內期限內什麼時候按照法令是三個月三個月所以這個是一個曠世巨作就對了\n我等著看你們花100萬錢是怎麼花的所以部長今天問了兩個問題你答不出來因為你可能也乍聽之下也覺得怎麼會這樣那請你緊盯這個案子因為這是地方的期待而且以你剛剛講的辦這種活動你參加就會更豐富更精彩我們期待你來參加希望你多花點心思在這個我們這個案子上面\n其實我都很喜歡身體力行啊但你要說到做到啦因為我跟你講備詢是就是論事講一套做一套不是講得天花亂墜不會不會對不對你答應我的我答應接下來我們來看一個最近大家很關心的黃牛票下一頁因為周杰倫演唱會中午的時候就要開始買可以開始買了嘛那我們不知道對於黃牛票有沒有一些防弊的機制有嗎\n有阿有好那部長你看齁這個是我們隨便在網路上查的周杰倫票代購你就可以看到了一堆都是網路代購而且加價加得非常誇張比如說面額6,880塊的每張代購價可以到19,376這個為什麼這個為什麼不知道欸這沒有去查嗎這個沒有去查嗎\n我們從來是受你檢舉後才調的不是啦那如果沒有人檢舉你就讓這事情發生喔你知道很多黃牛都是用掃票機器人所以很多代購公司為什麼他可以承諾他可以幫忙代購就是他有把握可以一次買到大量的門票嘛所以才可以告訴你說一張6880我可以你給我一萬九我就幫你代購你覺得這樣合理嗎部長\n合理嗎當然不合理那為什麼沒有去查你不能被動受理檢舉啊其實針對黃牛我剛才前面已經回答過我們其實都我們動員了非常多的我跟你講這個不是找你麻煩這我是google的周杰倫代購就有的網衆一大堆請你們主動去稽查好嗎然後你們之前花了兩千多萬成立一個打黃牛的辦公室我們來看一下成效打黃牛辦公室委託了律師事務所幫我把那一頁叫出來你看\n總共檢舉案件就是你講的要檢舉嘛總共總共從112年6月到113年9月檢舉了2802件但是大部分一半以上都不符合形式就直接退件只有受理了1059件然後最後裁罰70件1059件如果除以15個月大概一個月是70件左右\n那七十件一天大概兩三件結果我們花兩三千萬委託律師事務所成立這個打黃牛辦公室裡面有大概十個人編制每一天只處理大概兩三件我不知道這種打黃牛辦公室效益何在\n他結束了,對,對,對,對,對\n我們是不是請部長會後再所以第一你到黃牛辦公室成效你去查清楚好不好那到底需不需要花這個錢做這個事第二不是被動接受檢舉要主動主動去查因為現在的民眾對於黃牛深惡痛絕阿\n謝謝葉元之委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:16.801 --> 00:21.445\n主席請找請文化部部長李部長請\n\n00:26.605 --> 00:47.380\n葉委員你好部長好先跟部長報告一下我們半橋有一個現在文化部力推的兒童未來博物館總經費165億是一個非常大的建設那部長因為是今年5月20號才到任我先跟部長講一下這個建設其實已經延宕非常久了過去大家在地方把這個建設講成一個選舉服務館每到選舉才有進度\n\n00:50.862 --> 01:15.990\n那第一次是2018年的時候當時前院長蘇貞昌在競選新北市長的時候他說每一次經過這個地這個地叫特專山每次經過這個地方就因為都看到是最貴的機車停車場而如果是他來做市長的話會在100天之內取得用地馬上開始蓋這他講的因為很就是會很不舒服的意思結果後來\n\n01:17.871 --> 01:34.467\n蘇院長雖然沒選上市長可是可是他當了院長理論上這塊地是文化部的院長就可以直接蓋了但是也拖非常久那拖了三年之後呢在2021年的時候蘇院長忽然當時的院長忽然跑到板橋說要給兒童一個大禮啊那個時候是2021年的時候\n\n01:36.889 --> 01:55.085\n當時兒童非常興奮2018年被他一開始宣布的時候2018年兒童本來很興奮等了三年終於有進度了那個時候是2021年那時候兒童想說終於有大禮了結果後來到了2022年因為又碰到選舉了所以又有進度了那時候又講說要增加預算要變成130億\n\n01:59.088 --> 02:22.839\n然後就隔一年2023年又快到選舉了又有進度了說要辦一個建築師成果的發表而且是總預算要從130億變成165億那2023年的時候距離第一次這個兒童未來館宣布已經過5年了那時候的兒童如果12歲已經是青少年了快成年了所以當時的兒童失望了那我們現在進度是說2023年要完成嘛對不對\n\n02:26.633 --> 02:50.891\n二零三零年完成嗎二零三零嗎對不對好那院長有信心會如質如實的在二零二三年完成嗎我覺得我很謝謝你問這個問題我們大概是去年發包由那個日本的伊東李雄跟台灣的那個陳馬龍陳玉玲事務所標到之後我們的進度到目前為止完全是按照\n\n02:51.691 --> 03:08.378\n進度沒有地雷然後我自己那個一通風雄也值得要見我說想要知道我要做什麼所以我們見過一次非常仔細的碰面然後彼此表達對這個未來未來館的想像就我們談得非常愉快因為他看起來年紀\n\n03:09.258 --> 03:12.140\n麻煩大家了解先請你宣示一下2030年會讀資助士完工那因為你知道2030年距離2018那時候蘇貞昌第一次宣布已經過12年了那時候兒童已經成年了\n\n03:25.167 --> 03:30.129\n那現在小朋友開始進入這個狀態的那他變成高中或者國中的時候這個管就蓋好OK不然我覺得很糟蹋真的啦對部長真的不要再欺騙兒童了那部長但是最近有一個家長跟我爆料\n\n03:49.378 --> 03:51.000\n這個國家兒童未來館辦了一個活動這個活動找一些兒童去到這個場館的場地然後就發給他們一些簡單的建材就叫他們組裝啊設計陷阱啊什麼的據這個家長跟我講這個活動基本上蠻無聊的\n\n04:06.420 --> 04:32.307\n然後這個活動的目的呢可能是想要藉由激發兒童想像力吧導入兒童的參與設計讓兒童參與這個過程當中可以分享一些他們參與活動的想法然後並且跟家長互動所以這個主辦單位有請家長後來填問卷那家長認為說那個問卷其實都有引導性就是想要引導說引導出可能那個主辦單位想像的樣子但他自己對於這樣的活動他認為沒有什麼成效\n\n04:32.867 --> 04:42.915\n然後這個活動後來也有發餐盒那個餐盒就家長覺得也是蠻遜的所以總而言之基本上這是一個有經費的活動總共辦了兩場但部長我覺得非常奇怪的是這個總共165億的這個這麼大的案子\n\n04:50.080 --> 04:57.144\n當然他中間是因為工程關係所以比較貴但我們辦公室想了解一下欸你忽然間沒來遊的辦了這兩個活動大家覺得很奇怪啊因為你要現在的兒童來決定可能未來6年的場館的設計現在的科技日新月異啊\n\n05:06.449 --> 05:31.539\n6年前還沒有AI但現在AI的發展是日新月異非常的迅速那所以當然我們覺得很奇怪我們想要了解一下這活動到底目的是什麼然後總共花了多少錢有沒有浪費預算這個是我們立委的天職結果文化部居然搞黑箱不給我資料他說這個預算大概就是統包在整個委託設計跟建造技術服務的6億元裡面\n\n05:34.020 --> 05:56.726\n總共辦了兩場分兩個場次一場是38人一場36人全部統包在6億裡面就是說意思就是我不會告訴你多少錢反正在6億裡面不然你覺得可以這樣嗎那以後所有的6億裡面的這個項目全部都用這種方式來回復大家都不用去看說他到底花多少錢你覺得這樣可以嗎我可不可以回答你那兩個活動我沒有參加\n\n05:57.546 --> 05:58.087\n午後我參加會變更有趣\n\n06:13.308 --> 06:21.915\n院長不要我跟你講因為我們質詢時間有限沒辦法從盤古開天開始講但是你也講到一個問題就是說我們想要了解有沒有亂花預算因為家長參與的體驗是覺得這個沒有效但是你為什麼沒來遊辦了兩個活動花多少錢不給資料這樣對嗎這一點我請我們的館長回答好嗎館長花多少錢\n\n06:37.159 --> 07:04.129\n你好具體說明一下這個案子我們沒有另外發包這個案子其實它的源頭不是為了辦一個活動這個是在建築室的設計的委員有來索取過我們的需求說明書裡面有講建築師完成規劃的時候要把它的成果要辦一個工作坊來徵詢兒童的意見它的背景是這樣子所以還是有預算因為建築師不是做公益所以他一定還是有支出\n\n07:05.217 --> 07:24.293\n對那確實他就是建築師所以我們的答案我們當時回報的時候是很誠實的跟報告是說確實就是在建築師他的建築設計那還是有費用因為你是統包案嘛你6億是一個算是他的所有支出都在6億裡面嘛但是他還是有分項嘛我是問你分項的預算嘛為什麼不能給勒\n\n07:30.400 --> 07:38.005\n一百六十幾億這麼大規模金額裡面到底多少錢立法院是不能知道的這就是你們文化部的態度那另外我繼續問部長那現在兒童未來館你最近有經過嗎他是不是還是最貴機車停車場\n\n07:45.251 --> 07:55.802\n是2018年讓蘇貞昌前院長按起的最貴機車停車場還是吧我最近才剛去在下著大雨的時候我去看我們今天質詢不是寫小說好不好是不是還是最貴機車停車場那個地方\n\n08:01.447 --> 08:09.574\n那個地方如果能給兒童用我就非常感動是不是最貴機車停車場你講不出來喔就是好不好最貴兒童最貴的未來兒童館的所在地但是現在是最貴機車停車場所以代表說他目前為止他都還沒有實體上還沒有任何進展我都實體還在設計當中結果你看喔我們這個國家兒童未來館籌備處已經花了100萬出國考察了\n\n08:31.067 --> 08:31.589\n為什麽要100萬出國考察部長\n\n08:37.898 --> 09:03.374\n你這樣問我就答不上來因為我們在計畫中本來就是大概請問一下這考察效益是什麼請他回答報告一下我們在我們的預算裡面編列的出國預算是裡面我們去參觀了美國的兒童博物館跟歐洲的兒童博物館在讓他們參觀他們的硬體跟他們的展示設計能夠回饋在我們的後續的展示就是去參觀兒童博物館嗎是那出國報告呢\n\n09:05.171 --> 09:24.759\n出國報告我們在三個月內我們都會提交三個月內你是什麼時候出去的你本人有出去嗎我我酒暑假的時候出去對我們第一本已經沒有交沒有考察報我們查不到啊我們會在期限內一定會叫期限內期限內什麼時候按照法令是三個月三個月所以這個是一個曠世巨作就對了\n\n09:26.417 --> 09:50.500\n我等著看你們花100萬錢是怎麼花的所以部長今天問了兩個問題你答不出來因為你可能也乍聽之下也覺得怎麼會這樣那請你緊盯這個案子因為這是地方的期待而且以你剛剛講的辦這種活動你參加就會更豐富更精彩我們期待你來參加希望你多花點心思在這個我們這個案子上面\n\n09:51.221 --> 10:17.723\n其實我都很喜歡身體力行啊但你要說到做到啦因為我跟你講備詢是就是論事講一套做一套不是講得天花亂墜不會不會對不對你答應我的我答應接下來我們來看一個最近大家很關心的黃牛票下一頁因為周杰倫演唱會中午的時候就要開始買可以開始買了嘛那我們不知道對於黃牛票有沒有一些防弊的機制有嗎\n\n10:18.524 --> 10:34.111\n有阿有好那部長你看齁這個是我們隨便在網路上查的周杰倫票代購你就可以看到了一堆都是網路代購而且加價加得非常誇張比如說面額6,880塊的每張代購價可以到19,376這個為什麼這個為什麼不知道欸這沒有去查嗎這個沒有去查嗎\n\n10:43.618 --> 11:04.010\n我們從來是受你檢舉後才調的不是啦那如果沒有人檢舉你就讓這事情發生喔你知道很多黃牛都是用掃票機器人所以很多代購公司為什麼他可以承諾他可以幫忙代購就是他有把握可以一次買到大量的門票嘛所以才可以告訴你說一張6880我可以你給我一萬九我就幫你代購你覺得這樣合理嗎部長\n\n11:08.809 --> 11:31.437\n合理嗎當然不合理那為什麼沒有去查你不能被動受理檢舉啊其實針對黃牛我剛才前面已經回答過我們其實都我們動員了非常多的我跟你講這個不是找你麻煩這我是google的周杰倫代購就有的網衆一大堆請你們主動去稽查好嗎然後你們之前花了兩千多萬成立一個打黃牛的辦公室我們來看一下成效打黃牛辦公室委託了律師事務所幫我把那一頁叫出來你看\n\n11:39.625 --> 11:57.215\n總共檢舉案件就是你講的要檢舉嘛總共總共從112年6月到113年9月檢舉了2802件但是大部分一半以上都不符合形式就直接退件只有受理了1059件然後最後裁罰70件1059件如果除以15個月大概一個月是70件左右\n\n12:03.171 --> 12:18.701\n那七十件一天大概兩三件結果我們花兩三千萬委託律師事務所成立這個打黃牛辦公室裡面有大概十個人編制每一天只處理大概兩三件我不知道這種打黃牛辦公室效益何在\n\n12:20.367 --> 12:20.747\n他結束了,對,對,對,對,對\n\n12:40.393 --> 12:56.985\n我們是不是請部長會後再所以第一你到黃牛辦公室成效你去查清楚好不好那到底需不需要花這個錢做這個事第二不是被動接受檢舉要主動主動去查因為現在的民眾對於黃牛深惡痛絕阿\n\n12:58.987 --> 12:59.407\n謝謝葉元之委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":16.801,"end":21.445,"text":"主席請找請文化部部長李部長請"},{"start":26.605,"end":47.38,"text":"葉委員你好部長好先跟部長報告一下我們半橋有一個現在文化部力推的兒童未來博物館總經費165億是一個非常大的建設那部長因為是今年5月20號才到任我先跟部長講一下這個建設其實已經延宕非常久了過去大家在地方把這個建設講成一個選舉服務館每到選舉才有進度"},{"start":50.862,"end":75.99,"text":"那第一次是2018年的時候當時前院長蘇貞昌在競選新北市長的時候他說每一次經過這個地這個地叫特專山每次經過這個地方就因為都看到是最貴的機車停車場而如果是他來做市長的話會在100天之內取得用地馬上開始蓋這他講的因為很就是會很不舒服的意思結果後來"},{"start":77.871,"end":94.467,"text":"蘇院長雖然沒選上市長可是可是他當了院長理論上這塊地是文化部的院長就可以直接蓋了但是也拖非常久那拖了三年之後呢在2021年的時候蘇院長忽然當時的院長忽然跑到板橋說要給兒童一個大禮啊那個時候是2021年的時候"},{"start":96.889,"end":115.085,"text":"當時兒童非常興奮2018年被他一開始宣布的時候2018年兒童本來很興奮等了三年終於有進度了那個時候是2021年那時候兒童想說終於有大禮了結果後來到了2022年因為又碰到選舉了所以又有進度了那時候又講說要增加預算要變成130億"},{"start":119.088,"end":142.839,"text":"然後就隔一年2023年又快到選舉了又有進度了說要辦一個建築師成果的發表而且是總預算要從130億變成165億那2023年的時候距離第一次這個兒童未來館宣布已經過5年了那時候的兒童如果12歲已經是青少年了快成年了所以當時的兒童失望了那我們現在進度是說2023年要完成嘛對不對"},{"start":146.633,"end":170.891,"text":"二零三零年完成嗎二零三零嗎對不對好那院長有信心會如質如實的在二零二三年完成嗎我覺得我很謝謝你問這個問題我們大概是去年發包由那個日本的伊東李雄跟台灣的那個陳馬龍陳玉玲事務所標到之後我們的進度到目前為止完全是按照"},{"start":171.691,"end":188.378,"text":"進度沒有地雷然後我自己那個一通風雄也值得要見我說想要知道我要做什麼所以我們見過一次非常仔細的碰面然後彼此表達對這個未來未來館的想像就我們談得非常愉快因為他看起來年紀"},{"start":189.258,"end":192.14,"text":"麻煩大家了解先請你宣示一下2030年會讀資助士完工那因為你知道2030年距離2018那時候蘇貞昌第一次宣布已經過12年了那時候兒童已經成年了"},{"start":205.167,"end":210.129,"text":"那現在小朋友開始進入這個狀態的那他變成高中或者國中的時候這個管就蓋好OK不然我覺得很糟蹋真的啦對部長真的不要再欺騙兒童了那部長但是最近有一個家長跟我爆料"},{"start":229.378,"end":231,"text":"這個國家兒童未來館辦了一個活動這個活動找一些兒童去到這個場館的場地然後就發給他們一些簡單的建材就叫他們組裝啊設計陷阱啊什麼的據這個家長跟我講這個活動基本上蠻無聊的"},{"start":246.42,"end":272.307,"text":"然後這個活動的目的呢可能是想要藉由激發兒童想像力吧導入兒童的參與設計讓兒童參與這個過程當中可以分享一些他們參與活動的想法然後並且跟家長互動所以這個主辦單位有請家長後來填問卷那家長認為說那個問卷其實都有引導性就是想要引導說引導出可能那個主辦單位想像的樣子但他自己對於這樣的活動他認為沒有什麼成效"},{"start":272.867,"end":282.915,"text":"然後這個活動後來也有發餐盒那個餐盒就家長覺得也是蠻遜的所以總而言之基本上這是一個有經費的活動總共辦了兩場但部長我覺得非常奇怪的是這個總共165億的這個這麼大的案子"},{"start":290.08,"end":297.144,"text":"當然他中間是因為工程關係所以比較貴但我們辦公室想了解一下欸你忽然間沒來遊的辦了這兩個活動大家覺得很奇怪啊因為你要現在的兒童來決定可能未來6年的場館的設計現在的科技日新月異啊"},{"start":306.449,"end":331.539,"text":"6年前還沒有AI但現在AI的發展是日新月異非常的迅速那所以當然我們覺得很奇怪我們想要了解一下這活動到底目的是什麼然後總共花了多少錢有沒有浪費預算這個是我們立委的天職結果文化部居然搞黑箱不給我資料他說這個預算大概就是統包在整個委託設計跟建造技術服務的6億元裡面"},{"start":334.02,"end":356.726,"text":"總共辦了兩場分兩個場次一場是38人一場36人全部統包在6億裡面就是說意思就是我不會告訴你多少錢反正在6億裡面不然你覺得可以這樣嗎那以後所有的6億裡面的這個項目全部都用這種方式來回復大家都不用去看說他到底花多少錢你覺得這樣可以嗎我可不可以回答你那兩個活動我沒有參加"},{"start":357.546,"end":358.087,"text":"午後我參加會變更有趣"},{"start":373.308,"end":381.915,"text":"院長不要 我跟你講因為我們質詢時間有限沒辦法從盤古開天開始講但是你也講到一個問題就是說我們想要了解有沒有亂花預算因為家長參與的體驗是覺得這個沒有效但是你為什麼沒來遊辦了兩個活動花多少錢不給資料這樣對嗎這一點我請我們的館長回答好嗎館長花多少錢"},{"start":397.159,"end":424.129,"text":"你好具體說明一下這個案子我們沒有另外發包這個案子其實它的源頭不是為了辦一個活動這個是在建築室的設計的委員有來索取過我們的需求說明書裡面有講建築師完成規劃的時候要把它的成果要辦一個工作坊來徵詢兒童的意見它的背景是這樣子所以還是有預算因為建築師不是做公益所以他一定還是有支出"},{"start":425.217,"end":444.293,"text":"對那確實他就是建築師所以我們的答案我們當時回報的時候是很誠實的跟報告是說確實就是在建築師他的建築設計那還是有費用因為你是統包案嘛你6億是一個算是他的所有支出都在6億裡面嘛但是他還是有分項嘛我是問你分項的預算嘛為什麼不能給勒"},{"start":450.4,"end":458.005,"text":"一百六十幾億這麼大規模金額裡面到底多少錢立法院是不能知道的這就是你們文化部的態度那另外我繼續問部長那現在兒童未來館你最近有經過嗎他是不是還是最貴機車停車場"},{"start":465.251,"end":475.802,"text":"是2018年讓蘇貞昌前院長按起的最貴機車停車場還是吧我最近才剛去在下著大雨的時候我去看我們今天質詢不是寫小說好不好是不是還是最貴機車停車場那個地方"},{"start":481.447,"end":489.574,"text":"那個地方如果能給兒童用我就非常感動是不是最貴機車停車場你講不出來喔就是好不好最貴兒童最貴的未來兒童館的所在地但是現在是最貴機車停車場所以代表說他目前為止他都還沒有實體上還沒有任何進展我都實體還在設計當中結果你看喔我們這個國家兒童未來館籌備處已經花了100萬出國考察了"},{"start":511.067,"end":511.589,"text":"為什麽要100萬出國考察部長"},{"start":517.898,"end":543.374,"text":"你這樣問我就答不上來因為我們在計畫中本來就是大概請問一下這考察效益是什麼請他回答報告一下我們在我們的預算裡面編列的出國預算是裡面我們去參觀了美國的兒童博物館跟歐洲的兒童博物館在讓他們參觀他們的硬體跟他們的展示設計能夠回饋在我們的後續的展示就是去參觀兒童博物館嗎是那出國報告呢"},{"start":545.171,"end":564.759,"text":"出國報告我們在三個月內我們都會提交三個月內你是什麼時候出去的你本人有出去嗎我我酒暑假的時候出去對我們第一本已經沒有交沒有考察報我們查不到啊我們會在期限內一定會叫期限內期限內什麼時候按照法令是三個月三個月所以這個是一個曠世巨作就對了"},{"start":566.417,"end":590.5,"text":"我等著看你們花100萬錢是怎麼花的所以部長今天問了兩個問題你答不出來因為你可能也乍聽之下也覺得怎麼會這樣那請你緊盯這個案子因為這是地方的期待而且以你剛剛講的辦這種活動你參加就會更豐富更精彩我們期待你來參加希望你多花點心思在這個我們這個案子上面"},{"start":591.221,"end":617.723,"text":"其實我都很喜歡身體力行啊但你要說到做到啦因為我跟你講備詢是就是論事講一套做一套不是講得天花亂墜不會不會對不對你答應我的我答應接下來我們來看一個最近大家很關心的黃牛票下一頁因為周杰倫演唱會中午的時候就要開始買可以開始買了嘛那我們不知道對於黃牛票有沒有一些防弊的機制有嗎"},{"start":618.524,"end":634.111,"text":"有阿有好那部長你看齁這個是我們隨便在網路上查的周杰倫票代購你就可以看到了一堆都是網路代購而且加價加得非常誇張比如說面額6,880塊的每張代購價可以到19,376這個為什麼這個為什麼不知道欸這沒有去查嗎這個沒有去查嗎"},{"start":643.618,"end":664.01,"text":"我們從來是受你檢舉後才調的不是啦那如果沒有人檢舉你就讓這事情發生喔你知道很多黃牛都是用掃票機器人所以很多代購公司為什麼他可以承諾他可以幫忙代購就是他有把握可以一次買到大量的門票嘛所以才可以告訴你說一張6880我可以你給我一萬九我就幫你代購你覺得這樣合理嗎部長"},{"start":668.809,"end":691.437,"text":"合理嗎當然不合理那為什麼沒有去查你不能被動受理檢舉啊其實針對黃牛我剛才前面已經回答過我們其實都我們動員了非常多的我跟你講這個不是找你麻煩這我是google的周杰倫代購就有的網衆一大堆請你們主動去稽查好嗎然後你們之前花了兩千多萬成立一個打黃牛的辦公室我們來看一下成效打黃牛辦公室委託了律師事務所幫我把那一頁叫出來你看"},{"start":699.625,"end":717.215,"text":"總共檢舉案件就是你講的要檢舉嘛總共總共從112年6月到113年9月檢舉了2802件但是大部分一半以上都不符合形式就直接退件只有受理了1059件然後最後裁罰70件1059件如果除以15個月大概一個月是70件左右"},{"start":723.171,"end":738.701,"text":"那七十件一天大概兩三件結果我們花兩三千萬委託律師事務所成立這個打黃牛辦公室裡面有大概十個人編制每一天只處理大概兩三件我不知道這種打黃牛辦公室效益何在"},{"start":740.367,"end":740.747,"text":"他結束了,對,對,對,對,對"},{"start":760.393,"end":776.985,"text":"我們是不是請部長會後再所以第一你到黃牛辦公室成效你去查清楚好不好那到底需不需要花這個錢做這個事第二不是被動接受檢舉要主動主動去查因為現在的民眾對於黃牛深惡痛絕阿"},{"start":778.987,"end":779.407,"text":"謝謝葉元之委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":365,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（10時3分）主席，請文化部部長。"],["主席（萬委員美玲）：李部長請。"],["李部長遠：葉委員，你好。"],["葉委員元之：部長好。先跟部長報告一下，我們板橋有一個現在文化部力推的兒童未來博物館，總經費165億，是一個非常大的建設，部長因為是今年5月20號才到任，我先跟部長講一下這個建設其實已經延宕非常久了。過去大家在地方把這個建設講成是一個選舉浮館，每到選舉才有進度。第一次是2018年的時候，當時前院長蘇貞昌在競選新北市長的時候，他說每一次經過這個地，這個地叫特專三，每次經過這個地方就「厭氣」，因為只看到最貴的機車停車場，如果是他來做市長的話，會在一百天之內取得用地，馬上開始蓋，這是他講的，因為很「厭氣」，「厭氣」就是很不舒服的意思，結果後來蘇院長雖然沒選上市長，可是他當了院長，理論上，這塊地是文化部的，院長就可以直接蓋了，但是也拖了非常久；拖了三年之後，在2021年的時候，當時的蘇院長忽然跑到板橋說要給兒童一個大禮，那個時候是2021年的時候，當時兒童非常興奮，2018年他一開始宣布的時候，兒童本來很興奮，等了三年終於有進度了，兒童想說終於有大禮了；後來到2022年，因為又碰到選舉了，所以又有進度了，那時候又說要增加預算，要變成130億；然後隔了一年，2023年，又快到選舉了，又有進度了，說要辦一個建築師成果的發表，而且總預算要從130億變成165億。2023年的時候距離第一次宣布兒童未來館已經過了5年，那時候的兒童如果12歲，現在已經是青少年了，快成年了，所以當時的兒童失望了。我們現在進度是說2030年要完成，對不對？部長有信心會如質如實在2030年完成嗎？"],["李部長遠：我很謝謝你問這個問題，我們大概是去年發包，由日本的伊東豊雄跟臺灣的張瑪龍、陳玉霖事務所標到之後，到目前為止完全按照進度，沒有delay，伊東豊雄也急著要見我，想要知道我要做什麼，所以我們見過一次，非常仔細的表達彼此對這個未來館的想像，我們談得非常愉快，因為他看起來年紀蠻大的……"],["葉委員元之：部長，謝謝，這我們都了解，請你宣示一下2030年會如質如實完工，因為你知道2030年距離2018年蘇貞昌第一次宣布已經過12年了，那時候兒童已經成年了，如果如質如實的話，那時候兒童如果早熟，他的小孩也許享用得到。"],["李部長遠：委員，你剛才講到重點了。"],["葉委員元之：我們不能再拖了。"],["李部長遠：你講到重點，我想蓋一個願景館，讓現在的小朋友開始進入這個狀態，等到他變成高中或者國中的時候，這個館就蓋好，不然，我覺得很糟蹋，大家都一直在等待。"],["葉委員元之：真的啦，不要再欺騙兒童了。部長，但是最近有一個家長跟我爆料，這個國家兒童未來館辦了一個活動，找了一些兒童到這個場館，然後就給他們一些簡單的建材，就教他們組裝、設計陷阱什麼的，據這個家長跟我講，這個活動基本上蠻無聊的，然後這個活動的目的可能是想要藉由激發兒童想像力，導入兒童的參與設計，讓兒童在參與的過程當中可以分享一些他們參與活動的想法，並且跟家長互動，後來主辦單位有請家長填問卷，家長認為那個問卷其實都有引導性，就是想要引導出那個主辦單位想像的樣子，但他自己對於這樣的活動認為沒有什麼成效，這個活動後來也有發餐盒，那個餐盒家長覺得也是蠻遜的。總而言之，基本上這是一個有經費的活動，總共辦了兩場。但部長我覺得非常奇怪的是，總共165億這麼大的案子，當然中間是因為工程關係所以比較貴，但我們辦公室想要了解一下，你忽然間沒來由的辦了這兩個活動，大家覺得很奇怪，因為你要現在的兒童來決定可能未來6年場館的設計，現在的科技日新月異，6年前還沒有AI，但現在AI的發展是日新月異，非常的迅速，當然我們覺得很奇怪，我們想要了解一下這個活動到底目的是什麼、總共花了多少錢、有沒有浪費預算，這個是我們立委的天職。結果文化部居然搞黑箱，不給我資料，說這個預算大概就是統包在整個委託設計跟監造技術服務的6億元裡面，總共辦了兩場，分兩個場次，一場38人，一場36人，全部統包在6億裡面，意思就是我不會告訴你多少錢，反正在6億裡面。部長，你覺得可以這樣嗎？那以後所有包含在這6億裡面的項目全部都用這種方式回覆，大家都不用去看到底花多少錢喔？你覺得這樣可以嗎？"],["李部長遠：我可不可以回答你？那兩個活動我沒有參加。"],["葉委員元之：我當然知道你沒參加。"],["李部長遠：有我參加會變得更有趣。"],["葉委員元之：那你為什麼不參加？這個兒童館那麼重要，你為什麼不參加？"],["李部長遠：我去參加別的活動。"],["葉委員元之：看不起這個活動喔？"],["李部長遠：絕對不是，因為我要成立一個願景館的目的就是讓現在的兒童……"],["葉委員元之：部長，不要，我跟你講因為我們質詢時間有限，沒辦法從盤古開天開始講。"],["李部長遠：好，但是你講到……"],["葉委員元之：針對我的問題，就是我們想要了解有沒有亂花預算，因為家長參與的體驗是覺得沒有效，但是你為什麼沒來由辦了兩個活動？花多少錢不給資料，這樣對嗎？"],["李部長遠：這點我請我們的館長回答，好嗎？"],["葉委員元之：館長，花多少錢？"],["曾主任聰邦：你好，我具體說明一下，這個案子我們沒有另外發包，這個案子的源頭其實不是為了辦一個活動，這個是在建築師設計的合約裡面，委員有來索取過，我們的需求說明書裡面有講，建築師完成規劃的時候，要辦一個工作坊來徵詢兒童對成果的意見，它的背景是這樣子，所以……"],["葉委員元之：所以還是有預算，因為建築師不是做公益，所以他一定還是有支出。"],["曾主任聰邦：確實就是建築師……"],["葉委員元之：對啊！"],["曾主任聰邦：所以我們當時回報的時候是很誠實地報告，確實就是在建築師建築設計的費用……"],["葉委員元之：那還是有費用，因為你是統包，他的所有支出都在6億裡面，但還是有分項，我是問你分項的預算，為什麼不能給？"],["曾主任聰邦：確實……"],["葉委員元之：反正你不願意給啦！我們就知道這一百六十幾億，這麼大規模的金額裡面，到底多少錢是立法委員不能知道的？這就是你們文化部的態度。","另外，我繼續問部長，兒童未來館，你最近有經過嗎？它是不是還是最貴的機車停車場？是2018年讓蘇貞昌前院長「厭氣」的最貴機車停車場，還是吧？"],["李部長遠：我最近才剛去，在下著大雨的時候我去看……"],["葉委員元之：院長，我們這邊質詢，不是寫小說，好不好？形容詞不用太多。"],["李部長遠：但是我要描述一下……"],["葉委員元之：是不是還是最貴的機車停車場？"],["李部長遠：那個地方如果能給兒童用，我就非常感動。"],["葉委員元之：是不是最貴的機車停車場，你講不出來喔！就是，好不好？最貴的未來兒童館的所在地，但現在是最貴的機車停車場。"],["李部長遠：但是留給兒童啊！"],["葉委員元之：代表目前為止它實體上還沒有任何進展，我是說實體。"],["李部長遠：還在設計中，對。"],["葉委員元之：對，還在設計當中。結果你看，國家兒童未來館籌備處已經花了100萬出國考察了，為什麼要花100萬出國考察？部長。"],["李部長遠：你這樣問我就答不上來，因為我們在計畫中本來就是大概……的預算……"],["葉委員元之：請問一下這個考察的效益是什麼？"],["李部長遠：我可不可以請他回答？"],["曾主任聰邦：報告一下，在我們編列的出國預算裡面，我們去參觀美國和歐洲的兒童博物館，參觀他們的硬體和展示設計，然後回饋在我們後續的展示……"],["葉委員元之：就是去參觀兒童博物館。"],["曾主任聰邦：是。"],["葉委員元之：好，那出國報告呢？"],["曾主任聰邦：出國報告，在3個月內我們都會提交。"],["葉委員元之：3個月內。你是什麼時候出去的，你本人有出去嗎？"],["曾主任聰邦：我暑假的時候有出去，我們第一本已經……"],["葉委員元之：沒有考察報告，我們查不到。"],["曾主任聰邦：我們在期限內一定會交。"],["葉委員元之：期限內是什麼時候？"],["曾主任聰邦：按照法令是3個月內。"],["葉委員元之：3個月，所以這是一個曠世鉅作就對了？我等著看。我等著看你們花100萬這個錢是怎麼花的。"],["曾主任聰邦：好。"],["葉委員元之：所以部長，今天問了兩個問題你答不出來，因為你可能乍聽之下也覺得怎麼會這樣。"],["李部長遠：是。"],["葉委員元之：那請你緊盯這個案子，因為這是地方的期待，而且以你剛剛講的，辦這種活動，你參加就會更豐富、更精彩，我們期待你來參加，希望你多花點心思在我們這個案子上面。"],["李部長遠：其實我都很喜歡身體力行。"],["葉委員元之：但你要說到做到。"],["李部長遠：我都身體力行……"],["葉委員元之：我跟你講，備詢是就事論事，講一套做一套，不是講得天花亂墜，但是……"],["李部長遠：不會、不會。"],["葉委員元之：對不對？你答應我的。"],["李部長遠：我答應……"],["葉委員元之：好。接下來我們來看最近大家也很關心的黃牛票，因為周杰倫演唱會中午的時候就可以開始買了，不知道對於黃牛票有沒有一些防弊的機制，有嗎？"],["李部長遠：有，我們……"],["葉委員元之：有喔！那部長看，這個是我們隨便在網路上查的──周杰倫票代購，你就可以看到一堆都是網路代購，而且加價加得非常誇張，比如面額6,880塊的每張代購價可以到1萬9,376元，這個為什麼不知道？這個沒有去查嗎？這個沒有去查嗎？"],["李部長遠：我們通常是受理檢舉後才調查。"],["葉委員元之：不是，如果沒有人檢舉，你就讓這個事情發生？你知道很多黃牛都是用掃票機器人，所以很多代購公司為什麼承諾它可以幫忙代購，就是它有把握可以一次買到大量的門票，所以才告訴你，一張6,880元，你給我一萬九，我就幫你代購。你覺得這樣合理嗎？部長，合理嗎？"],["李部長遠：當然不合理。"],["葉委員元之：那為什麼沒有去查？你不能被動受理檢舉。"],["李部長遠：針對黃牛，剛才前面已經回答過，我們其實動員用了非常多……"],["葉委員元之：我跟你講，不是找你麻煩，我是google的，輸入周杰倫代購就有，網路一大堆，請你們主動去稽查，好嗎？"],["李部長遠：好。"],["葉委員元之：你們之前花了兩千多萬成立一個打黃牛的辦公室，我們來看一下成效。打黃牛辦公室委託了律師事務所，總共的檢舉案件，就是你講的要檢舉，從112年6月到113年9月總共檢舉了2,802件，但是大部分，一半以上都不符合形式就直接退件，只受理了1,059件，最後裁罰70件。1,059件如果除以15個月，大概一個月是70件左右，一天大概兩、三件。結果我們花兩、三千萬委託律師事務所成立這個打黃牛辦公室，裡面大概10個人的編制，每一天只處理大概兩、三件，我不知道這種打黃牛辦公室的效益何在！打黃牛辦公室的效益何在？部長。"],["李部長遠：它的那個程序非常複雜，我們為什麼請律師就是因為……"],["葉委員元之：因為它的樣態……"],["李部長遠：非常複雜……"],["葉委員元之：部長，公務機關，其實它都有樣態。"],["李部長遠：對。"],["葉委員元之：基本上你按照樣態、按照SOP做……不是每個案子都是不同的啦！有一樣的樣態。"],["主席：是不是請部長會後再……"],["葉委員元之：所以第一，打黃牛辦公室的成效，你去查清楚，好不好？"],["李部長遠：好。"],["葉委員元之：到底需不需要花這個錢做這個事？","第二，不是被動接受檢舉，要主動去查。因為現在民眾對黃牛深惡痛絕，真的！部長，請你以一般消費者的心情為依歸，好好去辦打黃牛的這個事情，可以嗎？"],["李部長遠：可以，我會再努力瞭解。用書面好了。"],["主席：謝謝葉委員。會後針對葉委員的質詢，拜託再書面給葉委員。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝。"],["李部長遠：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葉元之委員。接下來我們有請陳培瑜委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":382,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-5","speakers":["萬美玲","林倩綺","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葉元之","陳培瑜","林宜瑾","羅廷瑋","陳秀寳","葛如鈞","張雅琳","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","吳春城","范雲","陳菁徽","楊瓊瓔","徐富癸","郭國文","王鴻薇","陳亭妃","林楚茵","何欣純","蔡易餘","邱志偉","賴惠員","涂權吉","高金素梅"],"page_start":309,"meetingDate":["2024-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1138901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部部長李遠列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138901_00005"}}}