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0.863}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 90.519, \"end\": 90.639, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 90.639, \"end\": 90.839, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 90.839, \"end\": 90.999, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 90.999, \"end\": 91.66, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 91.66, \"end\": 91.96, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 91.96, \"end\": 92.12, \"score\": 0.694}, {\"word\": \"碳\", \"start\": 92.12, \"end\": 92.801, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 92.801, \"end\": 92.941, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 92.941, \"end\": 93.341, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 93.341, \"end\": 93.521, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"施\", \"start\": 93.521, \"end\": 93.681, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 93.681, \"end\": 93.881, \"score\": 0.901}, 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\"二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助措施．及政府協助措施\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 117.568, \"end\": 117.588, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"邀\", \"start\": 117.588, \"end\": 117.608, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 117.608, \"end\": 117.648, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"首\", \"start\": 117.648, \"end\": 117.668, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 117.668, \"end\": 117.688, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 117.688, \"end\": 117.708, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"首\", \"start\": 117.708, \"end\": 117.728, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"．\"}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 117.728, \"end\": 117.748, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 117.748, \"end\": 117.808, \"score\": 0.664}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 117.808, \"end\": 117.828, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 117.828, \"end\": 117.888, \"score\": 0.104}, {\"word\": \"措\", \"start\": 117.888, \"end\": 117.908, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"施\", \"start\": 117.908, \"end\": 118.029, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"．\"}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 118.029, \"end\": 118.049, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 118.049, \"end\": 118.089, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 118.089, \"end\": 118.109, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 118.109, \"end\": 118.129, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"措\", \"start\": 118.129, \"end\": 118.289, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"施\", \"start\": 118.289, \"end\": 118.309, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 134.588, \"end\": 136.029, \"text\": \"二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 134.588, \"end\": 134.608, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"邀\", \"start\": 134.608, \"end\": 135.108, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, 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00:01:39,306\n跟委員報告其實我們那個在委員會裡面我們的代表有針對這一塊來做跟環境部還有相關的委員做溝通那我們也有在建立說像這樣的碳費如果現在實施完之後如果確實是對產業有造成極大影響應該要馬上來進行一些混動式的調整\n\n6\n00:01:39,946 --> 00:01:42,910\n因為你要減少這個碳排未來整個國際的趨勢那也必須要投入一些資源來進行這個減碳的一些方式\n\n7\n00:01:57,568 --> 00:01:58,309\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助措施．及政府協助措施\n\n8\n00:02:14,588 --> 00:02:16,029\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、\n\n9\n00:02:41,645 --> 00:02:42,506\n在這種情況下,你經濟部要怎麼協助他們呢?\n\n10\n00:03:01,725 --> 00:03:13,898\n公園報告其實這個我們面對這樣的一個碳費不是現在才發生的啦因為國際上像歐盟跟其他有其他國家我們老早就注意到減碳這個議題所以我們在做減碳的其實已經有做了5、6年的一個節能減碳或是那個溫室氣體\n\n11\n00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:39,858\n降低了這樣的一個輔導的計畫那剛才委員有提到說那他如果沒有多餘的錢其實我們有推動一些投融資就針對減碳這一部分尤其在我們中信署這邊我們投入了一些信保甚至是10成、9成的一個信保另外一個就是我們這一次在你給他貸款的意思信保給他貸款來做一些投資這個減碳的一些措施\n\n12\n00:03:44,022 --> 00:04:08,252\n利率是低利率然後有做一些利息的他還是要還錢啊對那另外一個第二個就是在租稅優惠我們在產創實施因為今年屆期我們應該是在11月份會送到大院這邊來審查那我們針對這一部分我們特別把節能減碳特別把它拉出來那這一部分如果產業有投入這樣的減碳他是可以享受一些租稅優惠\n\n13\n00:04:08,993 --> 00:04:24,913\n所以其實可以降低一些衝擊所以你們沒有辦法用補助的只有一些減稅優惠然後而且給他們一些這個低利貸款而已那再補助有補助就是說如果你廠商你要再去做一些技術提升或剛才講的你要把碳\n\n14\n00:04:25,473 --> 00:04:26,134\n甚至那個人才培訓我們也在訓練他說你應該要針對你的\n\n15\n00:04:44,734 --> 00:05:01,796\n對,減碳這一部分去做讓你的員工的職能去做提升這些都需要時間跟成本對,所以我才跟委員報告其實我們做這種減碳不是現在才在做其實之前蔡總統那時候我們一上來市長,你要了解說你們現在所有這些方案來講的話\n\n16\n00:05:02,577 --> 00:05:24,104\n你們也有一些經濟部也針對這個未來收碳費你們都有做一些評估的報告雖然說你們說這個物價的話影響的不大但是你不要忘了剛剛電價才在產業調漲了12.5%而且明年的基本這個工資又調到28,590元這些都是他們負擔的財務的問題都會影響他們未來的整個營運狀況這個你們都要給他們關心\n\n17\n00:05:32,417 --> 00:05:49,889\n那所以說你要給他有這個國際的這個競爭力啊那我們現在談到就是說你現在收了碳費那未來在這個邊境的這個碳的這個這邊境的調整他們這個碳的關稅部分的話你們有沒有做個評估呢這個可不可以連次長環境部這邊次長\n\n18\n00:05:55,735 --> 00:06:07,347\n跟我們報告我們這個會先從規劃讓這個進口產品做產品碳含量的申報因為進口商這邊我們可以比照歐盟啊我們已經有他們很成熟的一個機制了嘛那為什麼會這樣提到因為我們國內已經收了這個碳費表示就是讓產業它的成本能提高了那如果說進口進來的東西\n\n19\n00:06:18,157 --> 00:06:20,561\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助企業因應徵收機制對產業衝擊之影響評估．及政府協助企業因應徵收機制對產業衝擊之影響評估\n\n20\n00:06:34,841 --> 00:06:36,982\n我們明年有在規劃明年看能不能從這個產品碳申報的這一個步驟開始。\n\n21\n00:06:59,771 --> 00:07:04,335\n這個也是解決這個產業的困境的一部分。這個碳關稅、這邊境管理我們還是要協助幫忙好不好。好,那再來就是說因為現在中油跟台電它就是高碳的、高碳量的\n\n22\n00:07:15,006 --> 00:07:20,790\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長\n\n23\n00:07:30,883 --> 00:07:41,486\n這個當然我們不會補助他啦因為這個東西其實那個像台電他現在差不多五百萬嘛那如果是他最後而且他是屬於那個你說自主碳排的話你會乘以0.20.2也是0.2就變成本來是要繳15億他現在變成只要繳差不多繳大概要5億、3億\n\n24\n00:07:53,001 --> 00:08:14,396\n全部加起來15億這樣?是啊,所以你要補助嗎?你董事長,他們很辛苦,他們現在已經虧損了,他們都吸收,像你的天然氣14塊錢,民間那個瓦斯桶的話,你只給他8塊錢而已,他都吸收進來了,所以他的費用非常的高,那現在又收碳費,他們就是高碳牌的部分啊。\n\n25\n00:08:14,876 --> 00:08:18,139\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、環境部首長就\n\n26\n00:08:40,678 --> 00:09:00,570\n這些都是本期提醒你們未來收碳費會衍生的一些問題目前中油台電已經在虧損了如果你沒有給他一些補助的話他未來又向人民漲價啦電也漲油也漲那人民會受不了的所以這些提醒你們的問題請您一一的來解決我們也都請他自己本身要好好去做那個檢討OK好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6752\t7994\t謝謝主席,請連長次請經濟部連次長\n17475\t44709\t市長委員長現在我們因應全球暖化的效應全世界也透過這個管制要來限縮這個二氧化碳的這個排放量那我們特別今天也針對這個碳費的標準環境部也已經公布了要來實施但是很遺憾的就是環境部沒有聽取我們經濟部的建議在議會的B方案裡面你們希望說用這個區間的價格\n48371\t61979\t讓產業能夠在這個整個國際上能夠更有競爭力但是沒有被接受了那尤其這個在二氧化碳的2.5公噸每一公噸是300元因為A方案是50元B方案是100元\n62939\t68166\t在這個情形之下,我們看到我們產業未來的財政負擔會更加的沉重,那是不是你要跟環境部多多的來溝通,看用滾動式的檢討來做一個調整,讓產業壓力不太重?\n80011\t99306\t跟委員報告其實我們那個在委員會裡面我們的代表有針對這一塊來做跟環境部還有相關的委員做溝通那我們也有在建立說像這樣的碳費如果現在實施完之後如果確實是對產業有造成極大影響應該要馬上來進行一些混動式的調整\n99946\t102910\t因為你要減少這個碳排未來整個國際的趨勢那也必須要投入一些資源來進行這個減碳的一些方式\n117568\t118309\t二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助措施．及政府協助措施\n134588\t136029\t二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、\n161645\t162506\t在這種情況下,你經濟部要怎麼協助他們呢?\n181725\t193898\t公園報告其實這個我們面對這樣的一個碳費不是現在才發生的啦因為國際上像歐盟跟其他有其他國家我們老早就注意到減碳這個議題所以我們在做減碳的其實已經有做了5、6年的一個節能減碳或是那個溫室氣體\n200120\t219858\t降低了這樣的一個輔導的計畫那剛才委員有提到說那他如果沒有多餘的錢其實我們有推動一些投融資就針對減碳這一部分尤其在我們中信署這邊我們投入了一些信保甚至是10成、9成的一個信保另外一個就是我們這一次在你給他貸款的意思信保給他貸款來做一些投資這個減碳的一些措施\n224022\t248252\t利率是低利率然後有做一些利息的他還是要還錢啊對那另外一個第二個就是在租稅優惠我們在產創實施因為今年屆期我們應該是在11月份會送到大院這邊來審查那我們針對這一部分我們特別把節能減碳特別把它拉出來那這一部分如果產業有投入這樣的減碳他是可以享受一些租稅優惠\n248993\t264913\t所以其實可以降低一些衝擊所以你們沒有辦法用補助的只有一些減稅優惠然後而且給他們一些這個低利貸款而已那再補助有補助就是說如果你廠商你要再去做一些技術提升或剛才講的你要把碳\n265473\t266134\t甚至那個人才培訓我們也在訓練他說你應該要針對你的\n284734\t301796\t對,減碳這一部分去做讓你的員工的職能去做提升這些都需要時間跟成本對,所以我才跟委員報告其實我們做這種減碳不是現在才在做其實之前蔡總統那時候我們一上來市長,你要了解說你們現在所有這些方案來講的話\n302577\t324104\t你們也有一些經濟部也針對這個未來收碳費你們都有做一些評估的報告雖然說你們說這個物價的話影響的不大但是你不要忘了剛剛電價才在產業調漲了12.5%而且明年的基本這個工資又調到28,590元這些都是他們負擔的財務的問題都會影響他們未來的整個營運狀況這個你們都要給他們關心\n332417\t349889\t那所以說你要給他有這個國際的這個競爭力啊那我們現在談到就是說你現在收了碳費那未來在這個邊境的這個碳的這個這邊境的調整他們這個碳的關稅部分的話你們有沒有做個評估呢這個可不可以連次長環境部這邊次長\n355735\t367347\t跟我們報告我們這個會先從規劃讓這個進口產品做產品碳含量的申報因為進口商這邊我們可以比照歐盟啊我們已經有他們很成熟的一個機制了嘛那為什麼會這樣提到因為我們國內已經收了這個碳費表示就是讓產業它的成本能提高了那如果說進口進來的東西\n378157\t380561\t二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助企業因應徵收機制對產業衝擊之影響評估．及政府協助企業因應徵收機制對產業衝擊之影響評估\n394841\t396982\t我們明年有在規劃明年看能不能從這個產品碳申報的這一個步驟開始。\n419771\t424335\t這個也是解決這個產業的困境的一部分。這個碳關稅、這邊境管理我們還是要協助幫忙好不好。好,那再來就是說因為現在中油跟台電它就是高碳的、高碳量的\n435006\t440790\t二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長\n450883\t461486\t這個當然我們不會補助他啦因為這個東西其實那個像台電他現在差不多五百萬嘛那如果是他最後而且他是屬於那個你說自主碳排的話你會乘以0.20.2也是0.2就變成本來是要繳15億他現在變成只要繳差不多繳大概要5億、3億\n473001\t494396\t全部加起來15億這樣?是啊,所以你要補助嗎?你董事長,他們很辛苦,他們現在已經虧損了,他們都吸收,像你的天然氣14塊錢,民間那個瓦斯桶的話,你只給他8塊錢而已,他都吸收進來了,所以他的費用非常的高,那現在又收碳費,他們就是高碳牌的部分啊。\n494876\t498139\t二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、環境部首長就\n520678\t540570\t這些都是本期提醒你們未來收碳費會衍生的一些問題目前中油台電已經在虧損了如果你沒有給他一些補助的話他未來又向人民漲價啦電也漲油也漲那人民會受不了的所以這些提醒你們的問題請您一一的來解決我們也都請他自己本身要好好去做那個檢討OK好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席,請連長次請經濟部連次長\n市長委員長現在我們因應全球暖化的效應全世界也透過這個管制要來限縮這個二氧化碳的這個排放量那我們特別今天也針對這個碳費的標準環境部也已經公布了要來實施但是很遺憾的就是環境部沒有聽取我們經濟部的建議在議會的B方案裡面你們希望說用這個區間的價格\n讓產業能夠在這個整個國際上能夠更有競爭力但是沒有被接受了那尤其這個在二氧化碳的2.5公噸每一公噸是300元因為A方案是50元B方案是100元\n在這個情形之下,我們看到我們產業未來的財政負擔會更加的沉重,那是不是你要跟環境部多多的來溝通,看用滾動式的檢討來做一個調整,讓產業壓力不太重?\n跟委員報告其實我們那個在委員會裡面我們的代表有針對這一塊來做跟環境部還有相關的委員做溝通那我們也有在建立說像這樣的碳費如果現在實施完之後如果確實是對產業有造成極大影響應該要馬上來進行一些混動式的調整\n因為你要減少這個碳排未來整個國際的趨勢那也必須要投入一些資源來進行這個減碳的一些方式\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助措施．及政府協助措施\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、\n在這種情況下,你經濟部要怎麼協助他們呢?\n公園報告其實這個我們面對這樣的一個碳費不是現在才發生的啦因為國際上像歐盟跟其他有其他國家我們老早就注意到減碳這個議題所以我們在做減碳的其實已經有做了5、6年的一個節能減碳或是那個溫室氣體\n降低了這樣的一個輔導的計畫那剛才委員有提到說那他如果沒有多餘的錢其實我們有推動一些投融資就針對減碳這一部分尤其在我們中信署這邊我們投入了一些信保甚至是10成、9成的一個信保另外一個就是我們這一次在你給他貸款的意思信保給他貸款來做一些投資這個減碳的一些措施\n利率是低利率然後有做一些利息的他還是要還錢啊對那另外一個第二個就是在租稅優惠我們在產創實施因為今年屆期我們應該是在11月份會送到大院這邊來審查那我們針對這一部分我們特別把節能減碳特別把它拉出來那這一部分如果產業有投入這樣的減碳他是可以享受一些租稅優惠\n所以其實可以降低一些衝擊所以你們沒有辦法用補助的只有一些減稅優惠然後而且給他們一些這個低利貸款而已那再補助有補助就是說如果你廠商你要再去做一些技術提升或剛才講的你要把碳\n甚至那個人才培訓我們也在訓練他說你應該要針對你的\n對,減碳這一部分去做讓你的員工的職能去做提升這些都需要時間跟成本對,所以我才跟委員報告其實我們做這種減碳不是現在才在做其實之前蔡總統那時候我們一上來市長,你要了解說你們現在所有這些方案來講的話\n你們也有一些經濟部也針對這個未來收碳費你們都有做一些評估的報告雖然說你們說這個物價的話影響的不大但是你不要忘了剛剛電價才在產業調漲了12.5%而且明年的基本這個工資又調到28,590元這些都是他們負擔的財務的問題都會影響他們未來的整個營運狀況這個你們都要給他們關心\n那所以說你要給他有這個國際的這個競爭力啊那我們現在談到就是說你現在收了碳費那未來在這個邊境的這個碳的這個這邊境的調整他們這個碳的關稅部分的話你們有沒有做個評估呢這個可不可以連次長環境部這邊次長\n跟我們報告我們這個會先從規劃讓這個進口產品做產品碳含量的申報因為進口商這邊我們可以比照歐盟啊我們已經有他們很成熟的一個機制了嘛那為什麼會這樣提到因為我們國內已經收了這個碳費表示就是讓產業它的成本能提高了那如果說進口進來的東西\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助企業因應徵收機制對產業衝擊之影響評估．及政府協助企業因應徵收機制對產業衝擊之影響評估\n我們明年有在規劃明年看能不能從這個產品碳申報的這一個步驟開始。\n這個也是解決這個產業的困境的一部分。這個碳關稅、這邊境管理我們還是要協助幫忙好不好。好,那再來就是說因為現在中油跟台電它就是高碳的、高碳量的\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長\n這個當然我們不會補助他啦因為這個東西其實那個像台電他現在差不多五百萬嘛那如果是他最後而且他是屬於那個你說自主碳排的話你會乘以0.20.2也是0.2就變成本來是要繳15億他現在變成只要繳差不多繳大概要5億、3億\n全部加起來15億這樣?是啊,所以你要補助嗎?你董事長,他們很辛苦,他們現在已經虧損了,他們都吸收,像你的天然氣14塊錢,民間那個瓦斯桶的話,你只給他8塊錢而已,他都吸收進來了,所以他的費用非常的高,那現在又收碳費,他們就是高碳牌的部分啊。\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、環境部首長就\n這些都是本期提醒你們未來收碳費會衍生的一些問題目前中油台電已經在虧損了如果你沒有給他一些補助的話他未來又向人民漲價啦電也漲油也漲那人民會受不了的所以這些提醒你們的問題請您一一的來解決我們也都請他自己本身要好好去做那個檢討OK好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.752 --> 00:07.994\n謝謝主席,請連長次請經濟部連次長\n\n00:17.475 --> 00:44.709\n市長委員長現在我們因應全球暖化的效應全世界也透過這個管制要來限縮這個二氧化碳的這個排放量那我們特別今天也針對這個碳費的標準環境部也已經公布了要來實施但是很遺憾的就是環境部沒有聽取我們經濟部的建議在議會的B方案裡面你們希望說用這個區間的價格\n\n00:48.371 --> 01:01.979\n讓產業能夠在這個整個國際上能夠更有競爭力但是沒有被接受了那尤其這個在二氧化碳的2.5公噸每一公噸是300元因為A方案是50元B方案是100元\n\n01:02.939 --> 01:08.166\n在這個情形之下,我們看到我們產業未來的財政負擔會更加的沉重,那是不是你要跟環境部多多的來溝通,看用滾動式的檢討來做一個調整,讓產業壓力不太重?\n\n01:20.011 --> 01:39.306\n跟委員報告其實我們那個在委員會裡面我們的代表有針對這一塊來做跟環境部還有相關的委員做溝通那我們也有在建立說像這樣的碳費如果現在實施完之後如果確實是對產業有造成極大影響應該要馬上來進行一些混動式的調整\n\n01:39.946 --> 01:42.910\n因為你要減少這個碳排未來整個國際的趨勢那也必須要投入一些資源來進行這個減碳的一些方式\n\n01:57.568 --> 01:58.309\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助措施．及政府協助措施\n\n02:14.588 --> 02:16.029\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、\n\n02:41.645 --> 02:42.506\n在這種情況下,你經濟部要怎麼協助他們呢?\n\n03:01.725 --> 03:13.898\n公園報告其實這個我們面對這樣的一個碳費不是現在才發生的啦因為國際上像歐盟跟其他有其他國家我們老早就注意到減碳這個議題所以我們在做減碳的其實已經有做了5、6年的一個節能減碳或是那個溫室氣體\n\n03:20.120 --> 03:39.858\n降低了這樣的一個輔導的計畫那剛才委員有提到說那他如果沒有多餘的錢其實我們有推動一些投融資就針對減碳這一部分尤其在我們中信署這邊我們投入了一些信保甚至是10成、9成的一個信保另外一個就是我們這一次在你給他貸款的意思信保給他貸款來做一些投資這個減碳的一些措施\n\n03:44.022 --> 04:08.252\n利率是低利率然後有做一些利息的他還是要還錢啊對那另外一個第二個就是在租稅優惠我們在產創實施因為今年屆期我們應該是在11月份會送到大院這邊來審查那我們針對這一部分我們特別把節能減碳特別把它拉出來那這一部分如果產業有投入這樣的減碳他是可以享受一些租稅優惠\n\n04:08.993 --> 04:24.913\n所以其實可以降低一些衝擊所以你們沒有辦法用補助的只有一些減稅優惠然後而且給他們一些這個低利貸款而已那再補助有補助就是說如果你廠商你要再去做一些技術提升或剛才講的你要把碳\n\n04:25.473 --> 04:26.134\n甚至那個人才培訓我們也在訓練他說你應該要針對你的\n\n04:44.734 --> 05:01.796\n對,減碳這一部分去做讓你的員工的職能去做提升這些都需要時間跟成本對,所以我才跟委員報告其實我們做這種減碳不是現在才在做其實之前蔡總統那時候我們一上來市長,你要了解說你們現在所有這些方案來講的話\n\n05:02.577 --> 05:24.104\n你們也有一些經濟部也針對這個未來收碳費你們都有做一些評估的報告雖然說你們說這個物價的話影響的不大但是你不要忘了剛剛電價才在產業調漲了12.5%而且明年的基本這個工資又調到28,590元這些都是他們負擔的財務的問題都會影響他們未來的整個營運狀況這個你們都要給他們關心\n\n05:32.417 --> 05:49.889\n那所以說你要給他有這個國際的這個競爭力啊那我們現在談到就是說你現在收了碳費那未來在這個邊境的這個碳的這個這邊境的調整他們這個碳的關稅部分的話你們有沒有做個評估呢這個可不可以連次長環境部這邊次長\n\n05:55.735 --> 06:07.347\n跟我們報告我們這個會先從規劃讓這個進口產品做產品碳含量的申報因為進口商這邊我們可以比照歐盟啊我們已經有他們很成熟的一個機制了嘛那為什麼會這樣提到因為我們國內已經收了這個碳費表示就是讓產業它的成本能提高了那如果說進口進來的東西\n\n06:18.157 --> 06:20.561\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助企業因應徵收機制對產業衝擊之影響評估．及政府協助企業因應徵收機制對產業衝擊之影響評估\n\n06:34.841 --> 06:36.982\n我們明年有在規劃明年看能不能從這個產品碳申報的這一個步驟開始。\n\n06:59.771 --> 07:04.335\n這個也是解決這個產業的困境的一部分。這個碳關稅、這邊境管理我們還是要協助幫忙好不好。好,那再來就是說因為現在中油跟台電它就是高碳的、高碳量的\n\n07:15.006 --> 07:20.790\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長\n\n07:30.883 --> 07:41.486\n這個當然我們不會補助他啦因為這個東西其實那個像台電他現在差不多五百萬嘛那如果是他最後而且他是屬於那個你說自主碳排的話你會乘以0.20.2也是0.2就變成本來是要繳15億他現在變成只要繳差不多繳大概要5億、3億\n\n07:53.001 --> 08:14.396\n全部加起來15億這樣?是啊,所以你要補助嗎?你董事長,他們很辛苦,他們現在已經虧損了,他們都吸收,像你的天然氣14塊錢,民間那個瓦斯桶的話,你只給他8塊錢而已,他都吸收進來了,所以他的費用非常的高,那現在又收碳費,他們就是高碳牌的部分啊。\n\n08:14.876 --> 08:18.139\n二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、環境部首長就\n\n08:40.678 --> 09:00.570\n這些都是本期提醒你們未來收碳費會衍生的一些問題目前中油台電已經在虧損了如果你沒有給他一些補助的話他未來又向人民漲價啦電也漲油也漲那人民會受不了的所以這些提醒你們的問題請您一一的來解決我們也都請他自己本身要好好去做那個檢討OK好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.752,"end":7.994,"text":"謝謝主席,請連長次請經濟部連次長"},{"start":17.475,"end":44.709,"text":"市長委員長現在我們因應全球暖化的效應全世界也透過這個管制要來限縮這個二氧化碳的這個排放量那我們特別今天也針對這個碳費的標準環境部也已經公布了要來實施但是很遺憾的就是環境部沒有聽取我們經濟部的建議在議會的B方案裡面你們希望說用這個區間的價格"},{"start":48.371,"end":61.979,"text":"讓產業能夠在這個整個國際上能夠更有競爭力但是沒有被接受了那尤其這個在二氧化碳的2.5公噸每一公噸是300元因為A方案是50元B方案是100元"},{"start":62.939,"end":68.166,"text":"在這個情形之下,我們看到我們產業未來的財政負擔會更加的沉重,那是不是你要跟環境部多多的來溝通,看用滾動式的檢討來做一個調整,讓產業壓力不太重?"},{"start":80.011,"end":99.306,"text":"跟委員報告其實我們那個在委員會裡面我們的代表有針對這一塊來做跟環境部還有相關的委員做溝通那我們也有在建立說像這樣的碳費如果現在實施完之後如果確實是對產業有造成極大影響應該要馬上來進行一些混動式的調整"},{"start":99.946,"end":102.91,"text":"因為你要減少這個碳排未來整個國際的趨勢那也必須要投入一些資源來進行這個減碳的一些方式"},{"start":117.568,"end":118.309,"text":"二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助措施．及政府協助措施"},{"start":134.588,"end":136.029,"text":"二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、"},{"start":161.645,"end":162.506,"text":"在這種情況下,你經濟部要怎麼協助他們呢?"},{"start":181.725,"end":193.898,"text":"公園報告其實這個我們面對這樣的一個碳費不是現在才發生的啦因為國際上像歐盟跟其他有其他國家我們老早就注意到減碳這個議題所以我們在做減碳的其實已經有做了5、6年的一個節能減碳或是那個溫室氣體"},{"start":200.12,"end":219.858,"text":"降低了這樣的一個輔導的計畫那剛才委員有提到說那他如果沒有多餘的錢其實我們有推動一些投融資就針對減碳這一部分尤其在我們中信署這邊我們投入了一些信保甚至是10成、9成的一個信保另外一個就是我們這一次在你給他貸款的意思信保給他貸款來做一些投資這個減碳的一些措施"},{"start":224.022,"end":248.252,"text":"利率是低利率然後有做一些利息的他還是要還錢啊對那另外一個第二個就是在租稅優惠我們在產創實施因為今年屆期我們應該是在11月份會送到大院這邊來審查那我們針對這一部分我們特別把節能減碳特別把它拉出來那這一部分如果產業有投入這樣的減碳他是可以享受一些租稅優惠"},{"start":248.993,"end":264.913,"text":"所以其實可以降低一些衝擊所以你們沒有辦法用補助的只有一些減稅優惠然後而且給他們一些這個低利貸款而已那再補助有補助就是說如果你廠商你要再去做一些技術提升或剛才講的你要把碳"},{"start":265.473,"end":266.134,"text":"甚至那個人才培訓我們也在訓練他說你應該要針對你的"},{"start":284.734,"end":301.796,"text":"對,減碳這一部分去做讓你的員工的職能去做提升這些都需要時間跟成本對,所以我才跟委員報告其實我們做這種減碳不是現在才在做其實之前蔡總統那時候我們一上來市長,你要了解說你們現在所有這些方案來講的話"},{"start":302.577,"end":324.104,"text":"你們也有一些經濟部也針對這個未來收碳費你們都有做一些評估的報告雖然說你們說這個物價的話影響的不大但是你不要忘了剛剛電價才在產業調漲了12.5%而且明年的基本這個工資又調到28,590元這些都是他們負擔的財務的問題都會影響他們未來的整個營運狀況這個你們都要給他們關心"},{"start":332.417,"end":349.889,"text":"那所以說你要給他有這個國際的這個競爭力啊那我們現在談到就是說你現在收了碳費那未來在這個邊境的這個碳的這個這邊境的調整他們這個碳的關稅部分的話你們有沒有做個評估呢這個可不可以連次長環境部這邊次長"},{"start":355.735,"end":367.347,"text":"跟我們報告我們這個會先從規劃讓這個進口產品做產品碳含量的申報因為進口商這邊我們可以比照歐盟啊我們已經有他們很成熟的一個機制了嘛那為什麼會這樣提到因為我們國內已經收了這個碳費表示就是讓產業它的成本能提高了那如果說進口進來的東西"},{"start":378.157,"end":380.561,"text":"二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長．及政府協助企業因應徵收機制對產業衝擊之影響評估．及政府協助企業因應徵收機制對產業衝擊之影響評估"},{"start":394.841,"end":396.982,"text":"我們明年有在規劃明年看能不能從這個產品碳申報的這一個步驟開始。"},{"start":419.771,"end":424.335,"text":"這個也是解決這個產業的困境的一部分。這個碳關稅、這邊境管理我們還是要協助幫忙好不好。好,那再來就是說因為現在中油跟台電它就是高碳的、高碳量的"},{"start":435.006,"end":440.79,"text":"二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長、財政部首長"},{"start":450.883,"end":461.486,"text":"這個當然我們不會補助他啦因為這個東西其實那個像台電他現在差不多五百萬嘛那如果是他最後而且他是屬於那個你說自主碳排的話你會乘以0.20.2也是0.2就變成本來是要繳15億他現在變成只要繳差不多繳大概要5億、3億"},{"start":473.001,"end":494.396,"text":"全部加起來15億這樣?是啊,所以你要補助嗎?你董事長,他們很辛苦,他們現在已經虧損了,他們都吸收,像你的天然氣14塊錢,民間那個瓦斯桶的話,你只給他8塊錢而已,他都吸收進來了,所以他的費用非常的高,那現在又收碳費,他們就是高碳牌的部分啊。"},{"start":494.876,"end":498.139,"text":"二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、環境部首長就"},{"start":520.678,"end":540.57,"text":"這些都是本期提醒你們未來收碳費會衍生的一些問題目前中油台電已經在虧損了如果你沒有給他一些補助的話他未來又向人民漲價啦電也漲油也漲那人民會受不了的所以這些提醒你們的問題請您一一的來解決我們也都請他自己本身要好好去做那個檢討OK好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":331,"blocks":[["呂委員玉玲：（10時12分）謝謝主席，請連常次。"],["主席：請經濟部連次長。"],["連次長錦漳：委員早。"],["呂委員玉玲：次長，現在我們因應全球暖化的效應，全世界也透過管制措施要來限縮二氧化碳的排放量，我們今天也特別針對碳費的標準，環境部也已經公布要來實施了，但很遺憾的是，環境部沒有聽取我們經濟部的建議，在優惠的B方案裡面，你們希望採用區間價格，讓產業在整個國際上能夠更有競爭力，但是沒有被接受，尤其排放二氧化碳2.5萬公噸以上，每公噸是300元，優惠A方案是50元，B方案是100元，在這個情形之下，我們看到我們產業未來的財政負擔會更加地沉重，你是不是要跟環境部多多溝通，用滾動式檢討來做一個調整，讓產業的壓力不會太重？"],["連次長錦漳：跟委員報告，其實在委員會裡面，我們的代表也有針對這一塊跟環境部還有各相關的委員做溝通，我們也有在建議像這樣的碳費，現在實施完之後，如果確實對產業有造成影響，應該要馬上來進行一些滾動式的調整。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以會滾動、立刻做修正嘛。"],["連次長錦漳：對、對、對。"],["呂委員玉玲：這樣才能夠幫助產業的困境。其實本席也能夠理解，因為你們要減少碳排，這是未來整個國際的趨勢，也必須投入一些資源來進行減碳，但是產業要來配合我們政府的這個政策的話，他們需要的是時間跟一些成本，但是我們看到我們訂出來的碳費價格非常高，尤其是優惠的方案，條件也非常嚴苛，所以造成產業會發生……就是它拿盈餘來做這些投資的話，那它本身在減碳轉型上，它拿出自己很多盈餘來做，它沒有辦法再有餘力投資，在這種情況之下就變成可能為了要生存就外移到其他國家，它如果想要留在臺灣的話可能就要停工、要減產，減少被徵收碳費。如果這種情形之下它減產之後，它就沒有這麼多盈餘，可能就會由盈轉到虧，轉虧的情形之下就變成必須要用裁員的方式才能夠繼續營運下去，這種情形下你經濟部要怎麼協助他們呢？"],["連次長錦漳：跟委員報告，其實我們面對這樣一個碳費不是現在才發生的啦！因為國際上像歐盟還有其他國家，我們老早就注意到減碳這個議題，所以我們在做減碳，其實已經做了5、6年的節能減碳，或是溫室氣體降低這樣的輔導計畫。剛才委員有提到它如果沒有多餘的錢，其實我們有推動一些投融資，就是針對減碳這部分，尤其在我們中企署這邊我們投入了一些信保，甚至是十成、九成的信保，另外一個就是我們這次在……"],["呂委員玉玲：給它貸款的意思囉？就是信保給它貸款投資減碳措施？"],["連次長錦漳：而且利率是低利率，然後有做一些利息的補貼。"],["呂委員玉玲：它還是要還錢啊！"],["連次長錦漳：對。另外，第二個就是租稅優惠，產創實施因為今年屆期，我們應該是在11月份會送到大院這邊來審查，針對這一部分，我們特別把節能減碳拉出來，這一部分如果產業有投入減碳，它是可以享受一些租稅優惠，所以其實可以降低一些衝擊。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以你們沒有辦法用補助的，只有一些減稅優惠，而且給他們一些低利貸款而已？"],["連次長錦漳：補助有，補助就是如果廠商要再去做一些技術提升，或剛才講的要把碳含量降低，這個我們在一些補助上會有。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以你們要積極，多去關心他們的困境，給他們協助幫忙。"],["連次長錦漳：有。"],["呂委員玉玲：尤其剛剛本席提的問題，外移到其他國家，還有減產問題，還有裁員的糾紛問題。"],["連次長錦漳：甚至人才培訓，我們也在訓練它應該要針對……"],["呂委員玉玲：減碳的人才。"],["連次長錦漳：對，減碳這部分去做，讓你的員工職能提升。"],["呂委員玉玲：這些都需要時間跟成本啦！"],["連次長錦漳：對，所以我才跟委員報告，其實我們做這種減碳，不是現在才在做，其實之前蔡總統一上來，我們就已經開始在做了。"],["呂委員玉玲：次長，你要了解，你們現在所有這些方案來講，經濟部針對未來收碳費，你們都有做一些評估報告，雖然你們說物價影響不大，但是你不要忘了，剛剛電價才在產業調漲了12.5%，而且明年基本工資又調到28,590元，這些都是他們負擔的財務問題，都會影響他們未來整個營運狀況，這些你們都要給他們關心。"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以說你要讓它有國際的競爭力，那我們現在談到的就是現在收了碳費，那未來在邊境調整碳的關稅的部分，你們有沒有做一個評估呢？"],["連次長錦漳：這個可不可以請環境部這邊……"],["呂委員玉玲：施次長？"],["施次長文真：跟委員報告，我們會先規劃讓進口產品做產品碳含量的申報。"],["呂委員玉玲：因為進口商這邊我們可以比照歐盟啊！"],["施次長文真：對，我們就是比照歐盟的作法，先從……"],["呂委員玉玲：歐盟已經有很成熟的機制了，為什麼會這樣提到？因為我們國內已經收了碳費，表示就是讓產業的成本提高了，如果說進口進來的東西沒有收碳關稅的話，那它的東西就會比我們國內便宜，這樣子我們沒有辦法保障國內廠商的競爭力，我們要保障他們的競爭力，所以我們這邊要積極來做，不要說日本、韓國或者是新加坡，目前他們都沒有，我們可以先規劃，我們可以走在前面，先超前部署，像歐盟已經在做了嘛！他們都有很成熟的方式了，這一點環境部這邊有沒有考量到呢？"],["施次長文真：是，我們就是參考歐盟循序漸進的作法。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以你們什麼時候可以研究出來？"],["施次長文真：我們有在規劃明年看能不能從產品碳申報這一個步驟開始。"],["呂委員玉玲：這個也是解決產業困境的一部分。"],["施次長文真：是，謝謝委員關心。"],["呂委員玉玲：這個碳關稅邊境管理，我們還是要協助幫忙，好不好？"],["施次長文真：好。"],["呂委員玉玲：因為中油跟台電就是高碳量的石化部分，現在中油跟台電虧損上千億、上百億都有了，在這種情形之下，經濟部會補助碳費嗎？"],["連次長錦漳：碳費我們不會補助它啦！其實像台電現在差不多500萬，而且它是屬於……"],["呂委員玉玲：你說自主碳排的話會乘以0.2？"],["連次長錦漳：0.2就變成本來是要繳15億，現在變成只要繳差不多……"],["呂委員玉玲：大概是5億、3億？"],["連次長錦漳：全部加起來15億。"],["呂委員玉玲：是啊！所以你要補助嗎？"],["連次長錦漳：沒有。"],["呂委員玉玲：他們很辛苦欸！"],["連次長錦漳：我們沒有要補助。"],["呂委員玉玲：他們現在已經虧損了，像天然氣14塊錢，可是民間那個瓦斯桶的話，你只給8塊錢而已，它都吸收進來了，所以它的費用非常高，現在又收碳費，他們就是高碳排的部分啊！"],["連次長錦漳：如果剛剛講台電是15、中油是16，如果有通過高碳排自主減量計畫，台電就會從15降到5億，然後中油差不多是6億左右，所以兩個下來……為什麼會有那個機制，就是說也鼓勵它去做減碳，自主減碳計畫如果通過的話，它會大幅把碳費往下減。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以，兩位次長，這些都是本席提醒你們未來收碳費會衍生的一些問題。"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["呂委員玉玲：目前中油、台電已經在虧損了，如果你沒有給它一些補助的話，它未來又向人民漲價啦！電也漲、油也漲，人民會受不了的！所以這些提醒你們的問題，請你們要一一解決。"],["連次長錦漳：我們也請它自己本身要好好做減碳。"],["呂委員玉玲：OK！謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝呂玉玲委員精確又精彩的質詢，次長請回座。下一位質詢請陳亭妃委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":52,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-7","speakers":["邱志偉","林岱樺","邱議瑩","楊瓊瓔","張嘉郡","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","呂玉玲","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鄭正鈐","蔡易餘","賴瑞隆","牛煦庭","王鴻薇","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","廖偉翔","陳超明"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1138702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138702_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長就「我國碳費徵收機制對產業衝擊之影響評估，及政府協助企\n業因應之配套措施」進行報告，並備質詢；二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長就\n「我國碳邊境調整機制（CBAM）推動規劃」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138702_00001"}}}