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00:01:10,787\n那個次長對於這個法案的進步有沒有了解?因為我知道我那時候在擔任標準局局長的時候就在貫徹這個案子但是這個案子現在好像有點稍微偏頂一下我只要問簡單先問啦你們有沒有掌握他的修法期程因為他的國會如果還沒有通過當然就不會執行可是我要提醒的是他如果執行喔他不像CBAM還有三年緩衝期喔\n\n4\n00:01:11,707 --> 00:01:26,680\n他若一執行他本來預估是2020就直接要開始課而且從範圍的比較上來講他也不是只是像歐盟一樣先從比如說水泥啊鋼鐵開始他是連電子零組件跟電動車相關產業他都涵蓋在內所以我希望第一我提醒經濟部對於他這個修法進度要\n\n5\n00:01:27,361 --> 00:01:53,997\n要提早掌握好不好這不要因為我們現在討論都還是都還是CBAM的範圍但不會只有CBAM這世界各國的相關的一些進度都要有所掌握這本期第一個提醒喔第二個回到CBAM的這個題目來做探討現在是六大類嘛對不對鋼鐵、水泥、鋁、化肥、氫還有肥料肥料、化肥嘛我剛剛講化肥還有氫跟電力嘛這六大類是CBAM優先要處理的這個項目其中跟我國相關的比較多是哪一種哪幾個類別\n\n6\n00:01:55,038 --> 00:02:11,032\n主要是鋼鐵跟它的下游的扣件、金屬製品扣件是後來加進來的。對。那其他的像鋁、水泥、肥料這些我們都很少見。相對少嘛。跟歐盟直接有貿易相關,當然是鋼鐵那邊。應該是鋼鐵、鋼石、鋼纜、螺絲等等一些相關產業。所以它其實是,你現在其實我們從國內產業的分析,你就可以初階段的了解哪些產業受到衝擊最大。\n\n7\n00:02:19,079 --> 00:02:46,865\n那今天大部分委員都關心就是碳定價的問題也就是碳費怎麼做銜接這當然很重要但本期要關心的是碳盤查的進度我為什麼要講碳盤查的進度呢是因為如果你沒有辦法自己算出來叫做所謂的這個實際含碳排放量你用CBAM的標準你自己算得出來就用實際的量去算對不對你如果算不出來的時候你什麼都沒教的時候歐盟的CBAM機制就叫設定含碳排放量也就是歐盟境內的最高排放標準那個就會造成很大的衝擊\n\n8\n00:02:47,805 --> 00:03:12,864\n所以我認為在討論定價跟銜接之前非常重要的其實是碳盤查的進度啦我們如果沒有辦法推動每一個企業都去做到實際排放量的計算你好歹也要有一個國家平均排放量嘛對不對所以政府在裡面是有角色的好我現在要問了這個我們剛剛講鋼鐵相關的產業總共幾家產業受到衝擊大型企業跟中小企業佔比分別是多少請問經濟部有沒有數字這個我們有去齁其實大型企業就是剛才講的\n\n9\n00:03:13,604 --> 00:03:14,405\n中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、\n\n10\n00:03:31,604 --> 00:03:49,733\n每一家都跑過了?對那我沒有在報告裡看到碳盤查的進度有有有碳盤查我們應該是不是每一家都希望我們進去做碳盤查應該是做到將近七成左右你現在這幾家對你講七成的進度我希望你會後提供一個完整的報告就是說針對第一波受到高衝擊的產業你的碳盤查的進度是什麼?\n\n11\n00:03:51,594 --> 00:04:18,675\n我們國家未來是要有效的輔導這些受到衝擊的產業去讓它完成自己可以算出實際含碳排量還是說我國家要因為實際上操作有些困難因為它有技術門檻等等我至少要有一個國家平均含碳量的這樣一個計算而且我們每一家我們貿易署也都找美國的那個法律專家欸!歐盟的法律專家針對這個怎麼去弄有沒有時間就碳盤查的部分有沒有一個計算完成的時間表\n\n12\n00:04:21,355 --> 00:04:47,721\n我們叫過之後他就已經是完成了嗎?好,那你就把會後提供詳細的報告。因為2026年起徵之前嘛,你現在甚至都要申報了。這個我們把資料送給委員好不好?好不好,這個碳盤查輔導的速度一定要加快。我們才能夠算出真正的經濟衝擊嘛。我們才能討論後來配套措施對不對?我們也有協助其他行業的來做碳盤查。這個我希望在這樣的報告裡其實要看到碳盤查的進度啦。請會後提供可以嗎?好,謝謝市長辛苦了。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n369\t12100\t劉許廷委員好,謝謝主席,經濟部次長有請請連次長\n23098\t52482\t市長吳安今天討論碳費的部分當然大家現在都在討論因為看起來比較具體的是歐盟的CBAM的機制2023年10月開始做申報那預計到2026年開始啟程對不對這個啟程相對明確但恐怕世界各國在施行相關的這個碳邊境的這樣子的一個機制的恐怕也不是只有CBAM一套系統比如說美國好了它就有這個Clean Competition Act這叫做清潔競爭法案它其實就是所謂美國版的CBAM\n53762\t70787\t那個次長對於這個法案的進步有沒有了解?因為我知道我那時候在擔任標準局局長的時候就在貫徹這個案子但是這個案子現在好像有點稍微偏頂一下我只要問簡單先問啦你們有沒有掌握他的修法期程因為他的國會如果還沒有通過當然就不會執行可是我要提醒的是他如果執行喔他不像CBAM還有三年緩衝期喔\n71707\t86680\t他若一執行他本來預估是2020就直接要開始課而且從範圍的比較上來講他也不是只是像歐盟一樣先從比如說水泥啊鋼鐵開始他是連電子零組件跟電動車相關產業他都涵蓋在內所以我希望第一我提醒經濟部對於他這個修法進度要\n87361\t113997\t要提早掌握好不好這不要因為我們現在討論都還是都還是CBAM的範圍但不會只有CBAM這世界各國的相關的一些進度都要有所掌握這本期第一個提醒喔第二個回到CBAM的這個題目來做探討現在是六大類嘛對不對鋼鐵、水泥、鋁、化肥、氫還有肥料肥料、化肥嘛我剛剛講化肥還有氫跟電力嘛這六大類是CBAM優先要處理的這個項目其中跟我國相關的比較多是哪一種哪幾個類別\n115038\t131032\t主要是鋼鐵跟它的下游的扣件、金屬製品扣件是後來加進來的。對。那其他的像鋁、水泥、肥料這些我們都很少見。相對少嘛。跟歐盟直接有貿易相關,當然是鋼鐵那邊。應該是鋼鐵、鋼石、鋼纜、螺絲等等一些相關產業。所以它其實是,你現在其實我們從國內產業的分析,你就可以初階段的了解哪些產業受到衝擊最大。\n139079\t166865\t那今天大部分委員都關心就是碳定價的問題也就是碳費怎麼做銜接這當然很重要但本期要關心的是碳盤查的進度我為什麼要講碳盤查的進度呢是因為如果你沒有辦法自己算出來叫做所謂的這個實際含碳排放量你用CBAM的標準你自己算得出來就用實際的量去算對不對你如果算不出來的時候你什麼都沒教的時候歐盟的CBAM機制就叫設定含碳排放量也就是歐盟境內的最高排放標準那個就會造成很大的衝擊\n167805\t192864\t所以我認為在討論定價跟銜接之前非常重要的其實是碳盤查的進度啦我們如果沒有辦法推動每一個企業都去做到實際排放量的計算你好歹也要有一個國家平均排放量嘛對不對所以政府在裡面是有角色的好我現在要問了這個我們剛剛講鋼鐵相關的產業總共幾家產業受到衝擊大型企業跟中小企業佔比分別是多少請問經濟部有沒有數字這個我們有去齁其實大型企業就是剛才講的\n193604\t194405\t中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、\n211604\t229733\t每一家都跑過了?對那我沒有在報告裡看到碳盤查的進度有有有碳盤查我們應該是不是每一家都希望我們進去做碳盤查應該是做到將近七成左右你現在這幾家對你講七成的進度我希望你會後提供一個完整的報告就是說針對第一波受到高衝擊的產業你的碳盤查的進度是什麼?\n231594\t258675\t我們國家未來是要有效的輔導這些受到衝擊的產業去讓它完成自己可以算出實際含碳排量還是說我國家要因為實際上操作有些困難因為它有技術門檻等等我至少要有一個國家平均含碳量的這樣一個計算而且我們每一家我們貿易署也都找美國的那個法律專家欸!歐盟的法律專家針對這個怎麼去弄有沒有時間就碳盤查的部分有沒有一個計算完成的時間表\n261355\t287721\t我們叫過之後他就已經是完成了嗎?好,那你就把會後提供詳細的報告。因為2026年起徵之前嘛,你現在甚至都要申報了。這個我們把資料送給委員好不好?好不好,這個碳盤查輔導的速度一定要加快。我們才能夠算出真正的經濟衝擊嘛。我們才能討論後來配套措施對不對?我們也有協助其他行業的來做碳盤查。這個我希望在這樣的報告裡其實要看到碳盤查的進度啦。請會後提供可以嗎?好,謝謝市長辛苦了。\n","txt":"劉許廷委員好,謝謝主席,經濟部次長有請請連次長\n市長吳安今天討論碳費的部分當然大家現在都在討論因為看起來比較具體的是歐盟的CBAM的機制2023年10月開始做申報那預計到2026年開始啟程對不對這個啟程相對明確但恐怕世界各國在施行相關的這個碳邊境的這樣子的一個機制的恐怕也不是只有CBAM一套系統比如說美國好了它就有這個Clean Competition Act這叫做清潔競爭法案它其實就是所謂美國版的CBAM\n那個次長對於這個法案的進步有沒有了解?因為我知道我那時候在擔任標準局局長的時候就在貫徹這個案子但是這個案子現在好像有點稍微偏頂一下我只要問簡單先問啦你們有沒有掌握他的修法期程因為他的國會如果還沒有通過當然就不會執行可是我要提醒的是他如果執行喔他不像CBAM還有三年緩衝期喔\n他若一執行他本來預估是2020就直接要開始課而且從範圍的比較上來講他也不是只是像歐盟一樣先從比如說水泥啊鋼鐵開始他是連電子零組件跟電動車相關產業他都涵蓋在內所以我希望第一我提醒經濟部對於他這個修法進度要\n要提早掌握好不好這不要因為我們現在討論都還是都還是CBAM的範圍但不會只有CBAM這世界各國的相關的一些進度都要有所掌握這本期第一個提醒喔第二個回到CBAM的這個題目來做探討現在是六大類嘛對不對鋼鐵、水泥、鋁、化肥、氫還有肥料肥料、化肥嘛我剛剛講化肥還有氫跟電力嘛這六大類是CBAM優先要處理的這個項目其中跟我國相關的比較多是哪一種哪幾個類別\n主要是鋼鐵跟它的下游的扣件、金屬製品扣件是後來加進來的。對。那其他的像鋁、水泥、肥料這些我們都很少見。相對少嘛。跟歐盟直接有貿易相關,當然是鋼鐵那邊。應該是鋼鐵、鋼石、鋼纜、螺絲等等一些相關產業。所以它其實是,你現在其實我們從國內產業的分析,你就可以初階段的了解哪些產業受到衝擊最大。\n那今天大部分委員都關心就是碳定價的問題也就是碳費怎麼做銜接這當然很重要但本期要關心的是碳盤查的進度我為什麼要講碳盤查的進度呢是因為如果你沒有辦法自己算出來叫做所謂的這個實際含碳排放量你用CBAM的標準你自己算得出來就用實際的量去算對不對你如果算不出來的時候你什麼都沒教的時候歐盟的CBAM機制就叫設定含碳排放量也就是歐盟境內的最高排放標準那個就會造成很大的衝擊\n所以我認為在討論定價跟銜接之前非常重要的其實是碳盤查的進度啦我們如果沒有辦法推動每一個企業都去做到實際排放量的計算你好歹也要有一個國家平均排放量嘛對不對所以政府在裡面是有角色的好我現在要問了這個我們剛剛講鋼鐵相關的產業總共幾家產業受到衝擊大型企業跟中小企業佔比分別是多少請問經濟部有沒有數字這個我們有去齁其實大型企業就是剛才講的\n中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、\n每一家都跑過了?對那我沒有在報告裡看到碳盤查的進度有有有碳盤查我們應該是不是每一家都希望我們進去做碳盤查應該是做到將近七成左右你現在這幾家對你講七成的進度我希望你會後提供一個完整的報告就是說針對第一波受到高衝擊的產業你的碳盤查的進度是什麼?\n我們國家未來是要有效的輔導這些受到衝擊的產業去讓它完成自己可以算出實際含碳排量還是說我國家要因為實際上操作有些困難因為它有技術門檻等等我至少要有一個國家平均含碳量的這樣一個計算而且我們每一家我們貿易署也都找美國的那個法律專家欸!歐盟的法律專家針對這個怎麼去弄有沒有時間就碳盤查的部分有沒有一個計算完成的時間表\n我們叫過之後他就已經是完成了嗎?好,那你就把會後提供詳細的報告。因為2026年起徵之前嘛,你現在甚至都要申報了。這個我們把資料送給委員好不好?好不好,這個碳盤查輔導的速度一定要加快。我們才能夠算出真正的經濟衝擊嘛。我們才能討論後來配套措施對不對?我們也有協助其他行業的來做碳盤查。這個我希望在這樣的報告裡其實要看到碳盤查的進度啦。請會後提供可以嗎?好,謝謝市長辛苦了。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.369 --> 00:12.100\n劉許廷委員好,謝謝主席,經濟部次長有請請連次長\n\n00:23.098 --> 00:52.482\n市長吳安今天討論碳費的部分當然大家現在都在討論因為看起來比較具體的是歐盟的CBAM的機制2023年10月開始做申報那預計到2026年開始啟程對不對這個啟程相對明確但恐怕世界各國在施行相關的這個碳邊境的這樣子的一個機制的恐怕也不是只有CBAM一套系統比如說美國好了它就有這個CleanCompetitionAct這叫做清潔競爭法案它其實就是所謂美國版的CBAM\n\n00:53.762 --> 01:10.787\n那個次長對於這個法案的進步有沒有了解?因為我知道我那時候在擔任標準局局長的時候就在貫徹這個案子但是這個案子現在好像有點稍微偏頂一下我只要問簡單先問啦你們有沒有掌握他的修法期程因為他的國會如果還沒有通過當然就不會執行可是我要提醒的是他如果執行喔他不像CBAM還有三年緩衝期喔\n\n01:11.707 --> 01:26.680\n他若一執行他本來預估是2020就直接要開始課而且從範圍的比較上來講他也不是只是像歐盟一樣先從比如說水泥啊鋼鐵開始他是連電子零組件跟電動車相關產業他都涵蓋在內所以我希望第一我提醒經濟部對於他這個修法進度要\n\n01:27.361 --> 01:53.997\n要提早掌握好不好這不要因為我們現在討論都還是都還是CBAM的範圍但不會只有CBAM這世界各國的相關的一些進度都要有所掌握這本期第一個提醒喔第二個回到CBAM的這個題目來做探討現在是六大類嘛對不對鋼鐵、水泥、鋁、化肥、氫還有肥料肥料、化肥嘛我剛剛講化肥還有氫跟電力嘛這六大類是CBAM優先要處理的這個項目其中跟我國相關的比較多是哪一種哪幾個類別\n\n01:55.038 --> 02:11.032\n主要是鋼鐵跟它的下游的扣件、金屬製品扣件是後來加進來的。對。那其他的像鋁、水泥、肥料這些我們都很少見。相對少嘛。跟歐盟直接有貿易相關,當然是鋼鐵那邊。應該是鋼鐵、鋼石、鋼纜、螺絲等等一些相關產業。所以它其實是,你現在其實我們從國內產業的分析,你就可以初階段的了解哪些產業受到衝擊最大。\n\n02:19.079 --> 02:46.865\n那今天大部分委員都關心就是碳定價的問題也就是碳費怎麼做銜接這當然很重要但本期要關心的是碳盤查的進度我為什麼要講碳盤查的進度呢是因為如果你沒有辦法自己算出來叫做所謂的這個實際含碳排放量你用CBAM的標準你自己算得出來就用實際的量去算對不對你如果算不出來的時候你什麼都沒教的時候歐盟的CBAM機制就叫設定含碳排放量也就是歐盟境內的最高排放標準那個就會造成很大的衝擊\n\n02:47.805 --> 03:12.864\n所以我認為在討論定價跟銜接之前非常重要的其實是碳盤查的進度啦我們如果沒有辦法推動每一個企業都去做到實際排放量的計算你好歹也要有一個國家平均排放量嘛對不對所以政府在裡面是有角色的好我現在要問了這個我們剛剛講鋼鐵相關的產業總共幾家產業受到衝擊大型企業跟中小企業佔比分別是多少請問經濟部有沒有數字這個我們有去齁其實大型企業就是剛才講的\n\n03:13.604 --> 03:14.405\n中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、\n\n03:31.604 --> 03:49.733\n每一家都跑過了?對那我沒有在報告裡看到碳盤查的進度有有有碳盤查我們應該是不是每一家都希望我們進去做碳盤查應該是做到將近七成左右你現在這幾家對你講七成的進度我希望你會後提供一個完整的報告就是說針對第一波受到高衝擊的產業你的碳盤查的進度是什麼?\n\n03:51.594 --> 04:18.675\n我們國家未來是要有效的輔導這些受到衝擊的產業去讓它完成自己可以算出實際含碳排量還是說我國家要因為實際上操作有些困難因為它有技術門檻等等我至少要有一個國家平均含碳量的這樣一個計算而且我們每一家我們貿易署也都找美國的那個法律專家欸!歐盟的法律專家針對這個怎麼去弄有沒有時間就碳盤查的部分有沒有一個計算完成的時間表\n\n04:21.355 --> 04:47.721\n我們叫過之後他就已經是完成了嗎?好,那你就把會後提供詳細的報告。因為2026年起徵之前嘛,你現在甚至都要申報了。這個我們把資料送給委員好不好?好不好,這個碳盤查輔導的速度一定要加快。我們才能夠算出真正的經濟衝擊嘛。我們才能討論後來配套措施對不對?我們也有協助其他行業的來做碳盤查。這個我希望在這樣的報告裡其實要看到碳盤查的進度啦。請會後提供可以嗎?好,謝謝市長辛苦了。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.369,"end":12.1,"text":"劉許廷委員好,謝謝主席,經濟部次長有請請連次長"},{"start":23.098,"end":52.482,"text":"市長吳安今天討論碳費的部分當然大家現在都在討論因為看起來比較具體的是歐盟的CBAM的機制2023年10月開始做申報那預計到2026年開始啟程對不對這個啟程相對明確但恐怕世界各國在施行相關的這個碳邊境的這樣子的一個機制的恐怕也不是只有CBAM一套系統比如說美國好了它就有這個Clean Competition Act這叫做清潔競爭法案它其實就是所謂美國版的CBAM"},{"start":53.762,"end":70.787,"text":"那個次長對於這個法案的進步有沒有了解?因為我知道我那時候在擔任標準局局長的時候就在貫徹這個案子但是這個案子現在好像有點稍微偏頂一下我只要問簡單先問啦你們有沒有掌握他的修法期程因為他的國會如果還沒有通過當然就不會執行可是我要提醒的是他如果執行喔他不像CBAM還有三年緩衝期喔"},{"start":71.707,"end":86.68,"text":"他若一執行他本來預估是2020就直接要開始課而且從範圍的比較上來講他也不是只是像歐盟一樣先從比如說水泥啊鋼鐵開始他是連電子零組件跟電動車相關產業他都涵蓋在內所以我希望第一我提醒經濟部對於他這個修法進度要"},{"start":87.361,"end":113.997,"text":"要提早掌握好不好這不要因為我們現在討論都還是都還是CBAM的範圍但不會只有CBAM這世界各國的相關的一些進度都要有所掌握這本期第一個提醒喔第二個回到CBAM的這個題目來做探討現在是六大類嘛對不對鋼鐵、水泥、鋁、化肥、氫還有肥料肥料、化肥嘛我剛剛講化肥還有氫跟電力嘛這六大類是CBAM優先要處理的這個項目其中跟我國相關的比較多是哪一種哪幾個類別"},{"start":115.038,"end":131.032,"text":"主要是鋼鐵跟它的下游的扣件、金屬製品扣件是後來加進來的。對。那其他的像鋁、水泥、肥料這些我們都很少見。相對少嘛。跟歐盟直接有貿易相關,當然是鋼鐵那邊。應該是鋼鐵、鋼石、鋼纜、螺絲等等一些相關產業。所以它其實是,你現在其實我們從國內產業的分析,你就可以初階段的了解哪些產業受到衝擊最大。"},{"start":139.079,"end":166.865,"text":"那今天大部分委員都關心就是碳定價的問題也就是碳費怎麼做銜接這當然很重要但本期要關心的是碳盤查的進度我為什麼要講碳盤查的進度呢是因為如果你沒有辦法自己算出來叫做所謂的這個實際含碳排放量你用CBAM的標準你自己算得出來就用實際的量去算對不對你如果算不出來的時候你什麼都沒教的時候歐盟的CBAM機制就叫設定含碳排放量也就是歐盟境內的最高排放標準那個就會造成很大的衝擊"},{"start":167.805,"end":192.864,"text":"所以我認為在討論定價跟銜接之前非常重要的其實是碳盤查的進度啦我們如果沒有辦法推動每一個企業都去做到實際排放量的計算你好歹也要有一個國家平均排放量嘛對不對所以政府在裡面是有角色的好我現在要問了這個我們剛剛講鋼鐵相關的產業總共幾家產業受到衝擊大型企業跟中小企業佔比分別是多少請問經濟部有沒有數字這個我們有去齁其實大型企業就是剛才講的"},{"start":193.604,"end":194.405,"text":"中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、中、"},{"start":211.604,"end":229.733,"text":"每一家都跑過了?對那我沒有在報告裡看到碳盤查的進度有有有碳盤查我們應該是不是每一家都希望我們進去做碳盤查應該是做到將近七成左右你現在這幾家對你講七成的進度我希望你會後提供一個完整的報告就是說針對第一波受到高衝擊的產業你的碳盤查的進度是什麼?"},{"start":231.594,"end":258.675,"text":"我們國家未來是要有效的輔導這些受到衝擊的產業去讓它完成自己可以算出實際含碳排量還是說我國家要因為實際上操作有些困難因為它有技術門檻等等我至少要有一個國家平均含碳量的這樣一個計算而且我們每一家我們貿易署也都找美國的那個法律專家欸!歐盟的法律專家針對這個怎麼去弄有沒有時間就碳盤查的部分有沒有一個計算完成的時間表"},{"start":261.355,"end":287.721,"text":"我們叫過之後他就已經是完成了嗎?好,那你就把會後提供詳細的報告。因為2026年起徵之前嘛,你現在甚至都要申報了。這個我們把資料送給委員好不好?好不好,這個碳盤查輔導的速度一定要加快。我們才能夠算出真正的經濟衝擊嘛。我們才能討論後來配套措施對不對?我們也有協助其他行業的來做碳盤查。這個我希望在這樣的報告裡其實要看到碳盤查的進度啦。請會後提供可以嗎?好,謝謝市長辛苦了。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":721,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（11時22分）謝謝主席，經濟部次長有請。"],["主席：請連次長。"],["牛委員煦庭：次長午安。今天討論碳費的部分，當然大家現在都在討論，因為看起來比較具體的是歐盟CBAM的機制，2023年10月開始做申報，預計到2026年開始起徵，對不對？"],["連次長錦漳：對，開始起徵。"],["牛委員煦庭：這個期程相對明確，但世界各國在施行相關的碳邊境機制，恐怕也不是只有CBAM一套系統，比如說美國好了，它就有Clean Competition Act，這個叫做清潔競爭法案，它其實就是美國版的CBAM，次長對於這個法案的進度有沒有瞭解？"],["連次長錦漳：這個我知道，因為我擔任標準局局長的時候就在關切這個案子，但是這個案子現在好像有點稍微偏停下。"],["牛委員煦庭：我簡單先問，你們有沒有掌握它的修法期程？因為國會如果還沒有通過，當然就不會執行，可是我要提醒的是，它如果執行，它不像CBAM還有3年緩衝期哦！它如果一執行，它本來是預估2024就直接要開始課。"],["連次長錦漳：直接就實施。"],["牛委員煦庭：而且從範圍的比較上來講，它也不是像歐盟一樣，先從比如說水泥、鋼鐵開始，它是連電子零組件跟電動車相關產業都涵蓋在內，所以我希望第一個，我提醒經濟部，對於它的修法進度要提早掌握，好不好？"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["牛委員煦庭：因為我們現在討論的都還是CBAM的範圍，但是不會只有CBAM，所以世界各國相關的進度都要有所掌握，這是本席第一個提醒。"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["牛委員煦庭：第二個，回到CBAM這個題目來做探討，現在是六大類，對不對？"],["連次長錦漳：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：鋼鐵、水泥、鋁、化肥、氫……"],["連次長錦漳：水泥、鋁，還有肥料。"],["牛委員煦庭：肥料，化肥嘛！我剛剛講化肥，還有氫跟電力，這六大類是CBAM優先要處理的項目，其中跟我國相關的，比較多是哪一種？哪幾種類別？"],["連次長錦漳：鋼鐵……"],["牛委員煦庭：鋼鐵嘛！"],["連次長錦漳：主要是鋼鐵跟它下游的……金屬製品扣件是後來加進來的，其他的像鋁、水泥、肥料，這些我們都很少出口。"],["牛委員煦庭：相對少嘛！跟歐盟直接有貿易相關，當然是鋼鐵類別，鋼鐵、鋼絲跟鋼纜，對不對？"],["連次長錦漳：應該是以鋼鐵跟底下的那個扣件比較有關。"],["牛委員煦庭：螺絲等等，一些相關產業。所以我們從國內產業的分析，你就可以初階段的瞭解哪些產業受到的衝擊最大。"],["連次長錦漳：有。"],["牛委員煦庭：今天大部分的委員都關心碳定價的問題，也就是說碳費怎麼做銜接，這當然很重要，但是本席要關心的是碳盤查的進度。我為什麼要講碳盤查的進度呢？是因為你如果沒有辦法自己算出來所謂的實際含碳排放量，你從CBAM的標準，你自己算得出來就用實際的量去算，你如果算不出來的時候，你什麼都沒交的時候，歐盟的CBAM機制就是要設定含碳排放量嘛！"],["連次長錦漳：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：也就是歐盟境內的最高排放標準，那個就會造成很大的衝擊啊！所以我認為在討論定價跟銜接之前，非常重要的，其實是碳盤查的進度啦！我們如果沒有辦法推動每一個企業都去做到實際排放量的計算，你好歹也要有一個國家平均排放量嘛！對不對？所以政府在裡面是有角色的。好，我現在要問了，我們剛剛講鋼鐵相關的產業，總共有幾家產業受到衝擊？大型企業跟中小企業的占比分別是多少？請問經濟部有沒有數字？"],["連次長錦漳：有，這個我們有去瞭解，其實大型企業就是剛才講的，中鋼、中龍那一些。"],["牛委員煦庭：中鋼、中龍等等，對不對？"],["連次長錦漳：那少數幾家啦！底下跟製造業有關的，總共有兩千四百多家。"],["牛委員煦庭：兩千四百多家。"],["連次長錦漳：其中跟貿易商有關有一千多，總共加起來差不多將近4,000家。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以有4,000家，好。"],["連次長錦漳：針對這些貿易商跟製造商，我們每一家都跑過了。"],["牛委員煦庭：每一家都跑過了？"],["連次長錦漳：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：但我沒有在報告裡看到碳盤查的進度？"],["連次長錦漳：有有有，碳盤查我們應該是……"],["牛委員煦庭：好，那我就問……"],["連次長錦漳：不是每一家都希望我們進去做碳盤查，應該是做到將近七成左右。"],["牛委員煦庭：你現在這幾家，你講七成的進度，我希望你會後提供一個完整的報告。"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["牛委員煦庭：就是說針對第一波受到高衝擊的產業，你的碳盤查的進度是什麼。"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["牛委員煦庭：我們國家未來是要有效地輔導這些受到衝擊的產業，讓它自己可以算出實際含碳排放量，還是說我國家因為實際上操作有些困難，因為它有技術門檻等等，我至少要有一個國家平均含碳量的計算？這個有沒有時間表？"],["連次長錦漳：而且我們每一家，我們貿易署也都找歐盟的法律專家，針對這個怎麼去弄，我們也有一個……"],["牛委員煦庭：有沒有時間表？碳盤查的部分，有沒有一個計算完成的時間表？"],["連次長錦漳：我們教過之後，它就已經完成了。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，你會後提供詳細的報告。"],["連次長錦漳：好，我們是說有協助多少家做碳盤查。"],["牛委員煦庭：因為2026年起徵之前嘛！你現在甚至都要申報了。"],["連次長錦漳：我們把資料送給委員，好不好？"],["牛委員煦庭：好。碳盤查輔導的速度一定要加快，我們才能夠算出真正的經濟衝擊嘛！我們才能討論後來的配套措施，對不對？"],["連次長錦漳：除了金屬扣件之外，我們也有協助其他行業來做碳排。"],["牛委員煦庭：我希望在這樣的報告裡面……其實是要看到碳盤查的進度。"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["牛委員煦庭：請會後提供可以嗎？"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，謝謝次長，辛苦了。"],["主席：謝謝牛煦庭委員非常有效率的質詢，次長請回座。","下一位質詢請王鴻薇委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":52,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-7","speakers":["邱志偉","林岱樺","邱議瑩","楊瓊瓔","張嘉郡","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","呂玉玲","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鄭正鈐","蔡易餘","賴瑞隆","牛煦庭","王鴻薇","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","廖偉翔","陳超明"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1138702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138702_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長就「我國碳費徵收機制對產業衝擊之影響評估，及政府協助企\n業因應之配套措施」進行報告，並備質詢；二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長就\n「我國碳邊境調整機制（CBAM）推動規劃」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138702_00001"}}}