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\"end\": 322.824, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 322.824, \"end\": 323.124, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 323.124, \"end\": 323.264, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 323.264, \"end\": 323.725, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"盡\"}, {\"word\": \"速\", \"start\": 323.725, \"end\": 324.105, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 324.105, \"end\": 324.205, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 324.205, \"end\": 324.285, \"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 324.285, \"end\": 324.305, \"score\": 0.703}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,253 --> 00:00:30,611\n主席,謝謝。請連次長跟施次長。請連次長、施次長。好,連次長,我先請教喔。有沒有看到這兩天有個新聞,因為我們這個核三廠二號機的一個稅休,而新聞就有講說全台灣有98%火力發電。有看到嗎?有,我有看到,我有看到這個。\n\n2\n00:00:32,301 --> 00:00:56,093\n火力發電當時蔡英文政府講說要二十、三十、五十非核家園二十的再生能源、三十的燃煤、五十的燃氣那就沒有想到沒有告訴我們的是有可能有再生能源跳票以外還有有一些時間是根本再生能源想發還發不出來是不是這樣我沒有沒有所以我現在想請教一下在\n\n3\n00:00:57,349 --> 00:01:16,461\n太陽能現在占比超過百分之十幾的一個狀態晚上夜間沒有辦法發電那是不是未來有專家就想是說每天可能有超過十個小時只要是夜間的話會有百分之九十的火力發電是不是真的?因為那個河山廠現在正在稅休喔是啊那你河山廠不是之後要停業了嗎?那也差不多\n\n4\n00:01:17,702 --> 00:01:43,721\n二號機現在還在稅休維修供給是41天是維修供給41天但你不是預計明年要除役嗎那我現在質問的是說明年的非核家園當時跟我們講很好聽20、30、50所以我們認為是百分之八十八成的火力發電但現在原來你的再生能源有一半的時間24小時裡面有12個小時只要沒有太陽的話你也發不了電如果說風力也弱水力也弱的話\n\n5\n00:01:44,321 --> 00:02:04,209\n所以你可能會有98%的火力發電,是不是?報告委員確實再生能源、光電跟風電有間歇性問題所以這部分我們會透過一些儲能的方法來解決這樣的間歇性問題儲能的方法你還是沒有不符合比例啊所以我只想問有專家講說我要次長親口告訴我一下\n\n6\n00:02:04,989 --> 00:02:31,954\n有專家講未來非核加原子要核電廠除役之後是有可能9成以上每天超過10小時9成以上是火力發電是不是?我覺得不應該會有9成以上那不然多少?你的數字推估是多少?8成以上是確定了嗎?因為是30的燃煤50的燃氣嘛8成會有但是因為在燃煤我們現在已經超過15%、16%左右了所以不會有那晚間呢?你的15%、16%裡面太陽能光電佔多少?\n\n7\n00:02:34,674 --> 00:02:49,586\n公文報告太陽光電白天發電我們透過儲能那個儲在電池裡面到時候再調度出來這個不能算說是那個火力發電的量也是試算那個再生能源的量\n\n8\n00:02:49,966 --> 00:03:04,943\n但是重點是你的儲能到目前為止是杯水車薪啊所以說也才會有媒體去做出來是說全台灣在沒有太陽的時候、夜間的時候是98%火力發電也無怪乎大家全民講說現在是用廢發電不是嗎?\n\n9\n00:03:07,567 --> 00:03:32,166\n而且除了撒笑以外能不能給一些比較專業的數據我這樣報告還有我們的水利抽蓄的水利抽蓄此時此刻佔多少水利?水利發電那我現在是講說此時此刻水利佔多少水利發電?一趴本席剛剛已經上來的時候查了水利目前此時此刻一趴風力發電此時此刻兩趴所以你將水利影響風力只是自我打臉好來沒關係次長\n\n10\n00:03:34,352 --> 00:03:39,620\n有要補充資料我歡迎會後給我補充但是本席要看到的是真實的數據來那個施市長\n\n11\n00:03:45,558 --> 00:04:05,820\n我們現在推動這個碳費的部分但有沒有看到現在民間已經開始有ESG的近鄰永續管理師課程但是很多人講說這課程可能沒有取得國內外認證讓民眾白花錢甚至會有碳費的這個空調系統購入要數百萬的替換但問環境部才知沒這個事\n\n12\n00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:34,920\n那代表是說,碳費大家都關心也希望能夠降低但是好像坊間的這種課程或是坊間的淨零相關的這些課程都變成是參差不齊我們有沒有做這樣的一個盤查?跟委員報告我們其實一直有在做兩件事情第一件事情是其實就法規而言我們是只有盤查的這個執照那第二件事情其實我們要那有沒有注意到這個亂象?有有有有這個亂象要怎麼解決呢?因為\n\n13\n00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:50,468\n一方面環境部是管理單位一方面經濟部可能有相關因為經濟部為什麼會跟你比較相關是因為很多企業可能會不管是病急亂投醫不管是他想要去了解想要ESG的這個永續師但沒想到他根本沒有認證\n\n14\n00:04:51,752 --> 00:05:08,831\n那這是哪一個單位要管理?我們未來會成立一個綠領人才的平台那把各部會其實比較官方的這個訓練環境部主導?對對對什麼時候會成立?我們現在還在跟各部會要做收集資料應該明年年初會有一個平台的雛型出來\n\n15\n00:05:09,372 --> 00:05:24,305\n好本席希望這個規劃也給本席一份會後資料因為這一個亂象其實已經從5月到現在但是感覺起來是因為碳費的一個收徵而更加加劇所以希望主管單位能夠盡速好不好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7253\t30611\t主席,謝謝。請連次長跟施次長。請連次長、施次長。好,連次長,我先請教喔。有沒有看到這兩天有個新聞,因為我們這個核三廠二號機的一個稅休,而新聞就有講說全台灣有98%火力發電。有看到嗎?有,我有看到,我有看到這個。\n32301\t56093\t火力發電當時蔡英文政府講說要二十、三十、五十非核家園二十的再生能源、三十的燃煤、五十的燃氣那就沒有想到沒有告訴我們的是有可能有再生能源跳票以外還有有一些時間是根本再生能源想發還發不出來是不是這樣我沒有沒有所以我現在想請教一下在\n57349\t76461\t太陽能現在占比超過百分之十幾的一個狀態晚上夜間沒有辦法發電那是不是未來有專家就想是說每天可能有超過十個小時只要是夜間的話會有百分之九十的火力發電是不是真的?因為那個河山廠現在正在稅休喔是啊那你河山廠不是之後要停業了嗎?那也差不多\n77702\t103721\t二號機現在還在稅休維修供給是41天是 維修供給41天但你不是預計明年要除役嗎那我現在質問的是說明年的非核家園當時跟我們講很好聽20、30、50所以我們認為是百分之八十八成的火力發電但現在原來你的再生能源有一半的時間24小時裡面有12個小時只要沒有太陽的話你也發不了電如果說風力也弱水力也弱的話\n104321\t124209\t所以你可能會有98%的火力發電,是不是?報告委員確實再生能源、光電跟風電有間歇性問題所以這部分我們會透過一些儲能的方法來解決這樣的間歇性問題儲能的方法你還是沒有不符合比例啊所以我只想問有專家講說我要次長親口告訴我一下\n124989\t151954\t有專家講未來非核加原子要核電廠除役之後是有可能9成以上每天超過10小時9成以上是火力發電是不是?我覺得不應該會有9成以上那不然多少?你的數字推估是多少?8成以上是確定了嗎?因為是30的燃煤50的燃氣嘛8成會有但是因為在燃煤我們現在已經超過15%、16%左右了所以不會有那晚間呢?你的15%、16%裡面太陽能光電佔多少?\n154674\t169586\t公文報告太陽光電白天發電我們透過儲能那個儲在電池裡面到時候再調度出來這個不能算說是那個火力發電的量也是試算那個再生能源的量\n169966\t184943\t但是重點是你的儲能到目前為止是杯水車薪啊所以說也才會有媒體去做出來是說全台灣在沒有太陽的時候、夜間的時候是98%火力發電也無怪乎大家全民講說現在是用廢發電不是嗎?\n187567\t212166\t而且除了撒笑以外能不能給一些比較專業的數據我這樣報告還有我們的水利抽蓄的水利抽蓄此時此刻佔多少水利?水利發電那我現在是講說此時此刻水利佔多少水利發電?一趴本席剛剛已經上來的時候查了水利目前此時此刻一趴風力發電此時此刻兩趴所以你將水利影響風力只是自我打臉好 來沒關係 次長\n214352\t219620\t有要補充資料我歡迎會後給我補充但是本席要看到的是真實的數據來那個施市長\n225558\t245820\t我們現在推動這個碳費的部分但有沒有看到現在民間已經開始有ESG的近鄰永續管理師課程但是很多人講說這課程可能沒有取得國內外認證讓民眾白花錢甚至會有碳費的這個空調系統購入要數百萬的替換但問環境部才知沒這個事\n246360\t274920\t那代表是說,碳費大家都關心也希望能夠降低但是好像坊間的這種課程或是坊間的淨零相關的這些課程都變成是參差不齊我們有沒有做這樣的一個盤查?跟委員報告我們其實一直有在做兩件事情第一件事情是其實就法規而言我們是只有盤查的這個執照那第二件事情其實我們要那有沒有注意到這個亂象?有有有有這個亂象要怎麼解決呢?因為\n275600\t290468\t一方面環境部是管理單位一方面經濟部可能有相關因為經濟部為什麼會跟你比較相關是因為很多企業可能會不管是病急亂投醫不管是他想要去了解想要ESG的這個永續師但沒想到他根本沒有認證\n291752\t308831\t那這是哪一個單位要管理?我們未來會成立一個綠領人才的平台那把各部會其實比較官方的這個訓練環境部主導?對對對什麼時候會成立?我們現在還在跟各部會要做收集資料應該明年年初會有一個平台的雛型出來\n309372\t324305\t好 本席希望這個規劃也給本席一份會後資料因為這一個亂象其實已經從5月到現在但是感覺起來是因為碳費的一個收徵而更加加劇所以希望主管單位能夠盡速好不好 謝謝\n","txt":"主席,謝謝。請連次長跟施次長。請連次長、施次長。好,連次長,我先請教喔。有沒有看到這兩天有個新聞,因為我們這個核三廠二號機的一個稅休,而新聞就有講說全台灣有98%火力發電。有看到嗎?有,我有看到,我有看到這個。\n火力發電當時蔡英文政府講說要二十、三十、五十非核家園二十的再生能源、三十的燃煤、五十的燃氣那就沒有想到沒有告訴我們的是有可能有再生能源跳票以外還有有一些時間是根本再生能源想發還發不出來是不是這樣我沒有沒有所以我現在想請教一下在\n太陽能現在占比超過百分之十幾的一個狀態晚上夜間沒有辦法發電那是不是未來有專家就想是說每天可能有超過十個小時只要是夜間的話會有百分之九十的火力發電是不是真的?因為那個河山廠現在正在稅休喔是啊那你河山廠不是之後要停業了嗎?那也差不多\n二號機現在還在稅休維修供給是41天是 維修供給41天但你不是預計明年要除役嗎那我現在質問的是說明年的非核家園當時跟我們講很好聽20、30、50所以我們認為是百分之八十八成的火力發電但現在原來你的再生能源有一半的時間24小時裡面有12個小時只要沒有太陽的話你也發不了電如果說風力也弱水力也弱的話\n所以你可能會有98%的火力發電,是不是?報告委員確實再生能源、光電跟風電有間歇性問題所以這部分我們會透過一些儲能的方法來解決這樣的間歇性問題儲能的方法你還是沒有不符合比例啊所以我只想問有專家講說我要次長親口告訴我一下\n有專家講未來非核加原子要核電廠除役之後是有可能9成以上每天超過10小時9成以上是火力發電是不是?我覺得不應該會有9成以上那不然多少?你的數字推估是多少?8成以上是確定了嗎?因為是30的燃煤50的燃氣嘛8成會有但是因為在燃煤我們現在已經超過15%、16%左右了所以不會有那晚間呢?你的15%、16%裡面太陽能光電佔多少?\n公文報告太陽光電白天發電我們透過儲能那個儲在電池裡面到時候再調度出來這個不能算說是那個火力發電的量也是試算那個再生能源的量\n但是重點是你的儲能到目前為止是杯水車薪啊所以說也才會有媒體去做出來是說全台灣在沒有太陽的時候、夜間的時候是98%火力發電也無怪乎大家全民講說現在是用廢發電不是嗎?\n而且除了撒笑以外能不能給一些比較專業的數據我這樣報告還有我們的水利抽蓄的水利抽蓄此時此刻佔多少水利?水利發電那我現在是講說此時此刻水利佔多少水利發電?一趴本席剛剛已經上來的時候查了水利目前此時此刻一趴風力發電此時此刻兩趴所以你將水利影響風力只是自我打臉好 來沒關係 次長\n有要補充資料我歡迎會後給我補充但是本席要看到的是真實的數據來那個施市長\n我們現在推動這個碳費的部分但有沒有看到現在民間已經開始有ESG的近鄰永續管理師課程但是很多人講說這課程可能沒有取得國內外認證讓民眾白花錢甚至會有碳費的這個空調系統購入要數百萬的替換但問環境部才知沒這個事\n那代表是說,碳費大家都關心也希望能夠降低但是好像坊間的這種課程或是坊間的淨零相關的這些課程都變成是參差不齊我們有沒有做這樣的一個盤查?跟委員報告我們其實一直有在做兩件事情第一件事情是其實就法規而言我們是只有盤查的這個執照那第二件事情其實我們要那有沒有注意到這個亂象?有有有有這個亂象要怎麼解決呢?因為\n一方面環境部是管理單位一方面經濟部可能有相關因為經濟部為什麼會跟你比較相關是因為很多企業可能會不管是病急亂投醫不管是他想要去了解想要ESG的這個永續師但沒想到他根本沒有認證\n那這是哪一個單位要管理?我們未來會成立一個綠領人才的平台那把各部會其實比較官方的這個訓練環境部主導?對對對什麼時候會成立?我們現在還在跟各部會要做收集資料應該明年年初會有一個平台的雛型出來\n好 本席希望這個規劃也給本席一份會後資料因為這一個亂象其實已經從5月到現在但是感覺起來是因為碳費的一個收徵而更加加劇所以希望主管單位能夠盡速好不好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.253 --> 00:30.611\n主席,謝謝。請連次長跟施次長。請連次長、施次長。好,連次長,我先請教喔。有沒有看到這兩天有個新聞,因為我們這個核三廠二號機的一個稅休,而新聞就有講說全台灣有98%火力發電。有看到嗎?有,我有看到,我有看到這個。\n\n00:32.301 --> 00:56.093\n火力發電當時蔡英文政府講說要二十、三十、五十非核家園二十的再生能源、三十的燃煤、五十的燃氣那就沒有想到沒有告訴我們的是有可能有再生能源跳票以外還有有一些時間是根本再生能源想發還發不出來是不是這樣我沒有沒有所以我現在想請教一下在\n\n00:57.349 --> 01:16.461\n太陽能現在占比超過百分之十幾的一個狀態晚上夜間沒有辦法發電那是不是未來有專家就想是說每天可能有超過十個小時只要是夜間的話會有百分之九十的火力發電是不是真的?因為那個河山廠現在正在稅休喔是啊那你河山廠不是之後要停業了嗎?那也差不多\n\n01:17.702 --> 01:43.721\n二號機現在還在稅休維修供給是41天是維修供給41天但你不是預計明年要除役嗎那我現在質問的是說明年的非核家園當時跟我們講很好聽20、30、50所以我們認為是百分之八十八成的火力發電但現在原來你的再生能源有一半的時間24小時裡面有12個小時只要沒有太陽的話你也發不了電如果說風力也弱水力也弱的話\n\n01:44.321 --> 02:04.209\n所以你可能會有98%的火力發電,是不是?報告委員確實再生能源、光電跟風電有間歇性問題所以這部分我們會透過一些儲能的方法來解決這樣的間歇性問題儲能的方法你還是沒有不符合比例啊所以我只想問有專家講說我要次長親口告訴我一下\n\n02:04.989 --> 02:31.954\n有專家講未來非核加原子要核電廠除役之後是有可能9成以上每天超過10小時9成以上是火力發電是不是?我覺得不應該會有9成以上那不然多少?你的數字推估是多少?8成以上是確定了嗎?因為是30的燃煤50的燃氣嘛8成會有但是因為在燃煤我們現在已經超過15%、16%左右了所以不會有那晚間呢?你的15%、16%裡面太陽能光電佔多少?\n\n02:34.674 --> 02:49.586\n公文報告太陽光電白天發電我們透過儲能那個儲在電池裡面到時候再調度出來這個不能算說是那個火力發電的量也是試算那個再生能源的量\n\n02:49.966 --> 03:04.943\n但是重點是你的儲能到目前為止是杯水車薪啊所以說也才會有媒體去做出來是說全台灣在沒有太陽的時候、夜間的時候是98%火力發電也無怪乎大家全民講說現在是用廢發電不是嗎?\n\n03:07.567 --> 03:32.166\n而且除了撒笑以外能不能給一些比較專業的數據我這樣報告還有我們的水利抽蓄的水利抽蓄此時此刻佔多少水利?水利發電那我現在是講說此時此刻水利佔多少水利發電?一趴本席剛剛已經上來的時候查了水利目前此時此刻一趴風力發電此時此刻兩趴所以你將水利影響風力只是自我打臉好來沒關係次長\n\n03:34.352 --> 03:39.620\n有要補充資料我歡迎會後給我補充但是本席要看到的是真實的數據來那個施市長\n\n03:45.558 --> 04:05.820\n我們現在推動這個碳費的部分但有沒有看到現在民間已經開始有ESG的近鄰永續管理師課程但是很多人講說這課程可能沒有取得國內外認證讓民眾白花錢甚至會有碳費的這個空調系統購入要數百萬的替換但問環境部才知沒這個事\n\n04:06.360 --> 04:34.920\n那代表是說,碳費大家都關心也希望能夠降低但是好像坊間的這種課程或是坊間的淨零相關的這些課程都變成是參差不齊我們有沒有做這樣的一個盤查?跟委員報告我們其實一直有在做兩件事情第一件事情是其實就法規而言我們是只有盤查的這個執照那第二件事情其實我們要那有沒有注意到這個亂象?有有有有這個亂象要怎麼解決呢?因為\n\n04:35.600 --> 04:50.468\n一方面環境部是管理單位一方面經濟部可能有相關因為經濟部為什麼會跟你比較相關是因為很多企業可能會不管是病急亂投醫不管是他想要去了解想要ESG的這個永續師但沒想到他根本沒有認證\n\n04:51.752 --> 05:08.831\n那這是哪一個單位要管理?我們未來會成立一個綠領人才的平台那把各部會其實比較官方的這個訓練環境部主導?對對對什麼時候會成立?我們現在還在跟各部會要做收集資料應該明年年初會有一個平台的雛型出來\n\n05:09.372 --> 05:24.305\n好本席希望這個規劃也給本席一份會後資料因為這一個亂象其實已經從5月到現在但是感覺起來是因為碳費的一個收徵而更加加劇所以希望主管單位能夠盡速好不好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.253,"end":30.611,"text":"主席,謝謝。請連次長跟施次長。請連次長、施次長。好,連次長,我先請教喔。有沒有看到這兩天有個新聞,因為我們這個核三廠二號機的一個稅休,而新聞就有講說全台灣有98%火力發電。有看到嗎?有,我有看到,我有看到這個。"},{"start":32.301,"end":56.093,"text":"火力發電當時蔡英文政府講說要二十、三十、五十非核家園二十的再生能源、三十的燃煤、五十的燃氣那就沒有想到沒有告訴我們的是有可能有再生能源跳票以外還有有一些時間是根本再生能源想發還發不出來是不是這樣我沒有沒有所以我現在想請教一下在"},{"start":57.349,"end":76.461,"text":"太陽能現在占比超過百分之十幾的一個狀態晚上夜間沒有辦法發電那是不是未來有專家就想是說每天可能有超過十個小時只要是夜間的話會有百分之九十的火力發電是不是真的?因為那個河山廠現在正在稅休喔是啊那你河山廠不是之後要停業了嗎?那也差不多"},{"start":77.702,"end":103.721,"text":"二號機現在還在稅休維修供給是41天是 維修供給41天但你不是預計明年要除役嗎那我現在質問的是說明年的非核家園當時跟我們講很好聽20、30、50所以我們認為是百分之八十八成的火力發電但現在原來你的再生能源有一半的時間24小時裡面有12個小時只要沒有太陽的話你也發不了電如果說風力也弱水力也弱的話"},{"start":104.321,"end":124.209,"text":"所以你可能會有98%的火力發電,是不是?報告委員確實再生能源、光電跟風電有間歇性問題所以這部分我們會透過一些儲能的方法來解決這樣的間歇性問題儲能的方法你還是沒有不符合比例啊所以我只想問有專家講說我要次長親口告訴我一下"},{"start":124.989,"end":151.954,"text":"有專家講未來非核加原子要核電廠除役之後是有可能9成以上每天超過10小時9成以上是火力發電是不是?我覺得不應該會有9成以上那不然多少?你的數字推估是多少?8成以上是確定了嗎?因為是30的燃煤50的燃氣嘛8成會有但是因為在燃煤我們現在已經超過15%、16%左右了所以不會有那晚間呢?你的15%、16%裡面太陽能光電佔多少?"},{"start":154.674,"end":169.586,"text":"公文報告太陽光電白天發電我們透過儲能那個儲在電池裡面到時候再調度出來這個不能算說是那個火力發電的量也是試算那個再生能源的量"},{"start":169.966,"end":184.943,"text":"但是重點是你的儲能到目前為止是杯水車薪啊所以說也才會有媒體去做出來是說全台灣在沒有太陽的時候、夜間的時候是98%火力發電也無怪乎大家全民講說現在是用廢發電不是嗎?"},{"start":187.567,"end":212.166,"text":"而且除了撒笑以外能不能給一些比較專業的數據我這樣報告還有我們的水利抽蓄的水利抽蓄此時此刻佔多少水利?水利發電那我現在是講說此時此刻水利佔多少水利發電?一趴本席剛剛已經上來的時候查了水利目前此時此刻一趴風力發電此時此刻兩趴所以你將水利影響風力只是自我打臉好 來沒關係 次長"},{"start":214.352,"end":219.62,"text":"有要補充資料我歡迎會後給我補充但是本席要看到的是真實的數據來那個施市長"},{"start":225.558,"end":245.82,"text":"我們現在推動這個碳費的部分但有沒有看到現在民間已經開始有ESG的近鄰永續管理師課程但是很多人講說這課程可能沒有取得國內外認證讓民眾白花錢甚至會有碳費的這個空調系統購入要數百萬的替換但問環境部才知沒這個事"},{"start":246.36,"end":274.92,"text":"那代表是說,碳費大家都關心也希望能夠降低但是好像坊間的這種課程或是坊間的淨零相關的這些課程都變成是參差不齊我們有沒有做這樣的一個盤查?跟委員報告我們其實一直有在做兩件事情第一件事情是其實就法規而言我們是只有盤查的這個執照那第二件事情其實我們要那有沒有注意到這個亂象?有有有有這個亂象要怎麼解決呢?因為"},{"start":275.6,"end":290.468,"text":"一方面環境部是管理單位一方面經濟部可能有相關因為經濟部為什麼會跟你比較相關是因為很多企業可能會不管是病急亂投醫不管是他想要去了解想要ESG的這個永續師但沒想到他根本沒有認證"},{"start":291.752,"end":308.831,"text":"那這是哪一個單位要管理?我們未來會成立一個綠領人才的平台那把各部會其實比較官方的這個訓練環境部主導?對對對什麼時候會成立?我們現在還在跟各部會要做收集資料應該明年年初會有一個平台的雛型出來"},{"start":309.372,"end":324.305,"text":"好 本席希望這個規劃也給本席一份會後資料因為這一個亂象其實已經從5月到現在但是感覺起來是因為碳費的一個收徵而更加加劇所以希望主管單位能夠盡速好不好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":830,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（11時32分）主席謝謝，請連次長跟施次長。"],["主席：請連次長，施次長。"],["洪委員孟楷：連次長，我先請教，有沒有看到這兩天有個新聞，因為核三廠2號機的歲修，新聞講說全臺灣有98%火力發電，有看到嗎？"],["連次長錦漳：有，我有看到。"],["洪委員孟楷：火力發電，當時蔡英文政府講說要「20-30-50」，非核家園啊！20%的再生能源，30%的燃煤，50%的燃氣，結果沒有想到沒有告訴我們的是，再生能源有可能跳票，還有一些時間根本是再生能源想發也發不出來，是不是這樣？"],["連次長錦漳：沒有、沒有，現在再生……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以我現在想請教一下，在太陽能現在占比差不多百分之十幾的一個狀態，夜間沒有辦法發電，有專家就講說每天可能超過10個小時，只要是夜間的話，會有90%的火力發電，是不是真的？"],["連次長錦漳：不過因為核三廠現在正在歲修，它10月20日……"],["洪委員孟楷：是啊！那你核三廠不是之後要停役了嗎？"],["連次長錦漳：沒有，2號機現在還在歲修，維修工期是41天。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，維修工期41天，但你不是預計明年要除役嗎？我現在只是問說明年的非核家園，當時跟我們講得很好聽「20-30-50」，所以我們認為是80%，八成的火力發電，但現在原來你的再生能源有一半的時間，24小時裡面有12個小時只要沒有太陽的話，你也發不了電，如果說風力也弱，水力也弱的話，你可能會有98%的火力發電，是不是？"],["游署長振偉：報告委員，確實再生能源光電跟風電有間歇性問題，所以我們會透過一些儲能的方法來解決這樣的間歇性問題。"],["洪委員孟楷：儲能的方法，你還是不符合比例啊！所以我只想問，我要次長親口告訴我一下，有專家講未來非核家園只要核電廠除役之後，是有可能九成以上，每天超過10小時，九成以上是火力發電，是不是？"],["連次長錦漳：我覺得不應該會有九成以上，因為現在……"],["洪委員孟楷：不然是多少？你的數字推估是多少？八成以上是確定了嘛！因為是30%的燃煤、50%的燃氣，是不是？"],["連次長錦漳：8成會有，但是因為再生能源現在已經差不多15%、16%左右了，所以不會有委員講的9成。"],["洪委員孟楷：那晚間呢？你的15%、16%裡面，太陽能光電占多少？"],["連次長錦漳：太陽光電白天發電，我們透過儲能，儲在電池裡面，到時候再調度出來，這個不能算是火力發電的量，也是算再生能源的量。"],["洪委員孟楷：再生能源的量，但重點是你的儲能到目前為止是杯水車薪啊！所以才會有媒體報導，說全臺灣在沒有太陽的時候，夜間的時候是98%火力發電，也無怪乎全民在講說現在是用肺發電，不是嗎？"],["連次長錦漳：不是啦！"],["洪委員孟楷：不是，除了傻笑以外，能不能給一些比較專業的數據？"],["連次長錦漳：委員，我這樣報告，還有我們的水力抽蓄。"],["洪委員孟楷：水力抽蓄，此時此刻水力發電占多少？"],["連次長錦漳：我現在是講說……"],["洪委員孟楷：此時此刻水力發電占多少？"],["連次長錦漳：好像是三點……"],["洪委員孟楷：1%！本席剛剛上來的時候已經查了，水力目前，此時此刻1%，風力發電，此時此刻2%，所以你講水力你講風力只是自我打臉。好，沒關係，次長，有要補充資料，我歡迎會後再補充給我。"],["連次長錦漳：好，我們補充資料給委員，絕對不會有你講的98%。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是本席要看到的是真實的數據。來，施次長。"],["施次長文真：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們現在推動碳費的部分，但是有沒有看到現在民間已經開始有ESG淨零永續管理師課程？很多人講說這個課程可能沒有取得國內外的認證，讓民眾白花錢，甚至有抵減碳排的空調系統，購入就要數百萬的替換，但是問環境部才知沒這回事，這代表說碳費大家都關心，也希望能夠降低，但是坊間的這種課程，坊間的淨零相關課程變成是參差不齊，我們有沒有做這樣的一個盤查？"],["施次長文真：我們一直有在做兩件事情，第一件事情，就法規而言，我們是只有盤查的執照。第二件事情，其實我們要……"],["洪委員孟楷：有沒有注意到這個亂象？"],["施次長文真：有有有，所以我們現在有……"],["洪委員孟楷：那這個亂象要怎麼解決呢？因為一方面環境部是管理單位，一方面經濟部可能有相關，為什麼經濟部會跟你比較相關？是因為很多企業不管是病急亂投醫，還是它想要去瞭解，想要ESG的永續師，但沒想到根本沒有認證，這是哪一個單位要管理？"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["施次長文真：我們未來會成立一個綠領人才的平臺，把各部會比較官方的訓練基礎……"],["洪委員孟楷：環境部主導？"],["施次長文真：對，對，對。"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼時候會成立？"],["施次長文真：我們現在還要跟各部會蒐集資料，應該明年年初會有一個平臺的雛形出來。"],["主席：好，謝謝，發言時間到。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，本席希望這個規劃會後給本席一份資料。"],["施次長文真：是，沒問題。"],["洪委員孟楷：因為這個亂象其實已經從5月到現在，但是感覺起來是因為碳費的收徵而更加加劇，所以希望主管單位能夠儘速，好不好？謝謝。"],["施次長文真：好，沒問題，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝洪孟楷委員，次長請回座。","下一位葉元之委員、葉元之委員，葉元之委員不在。","下一位質詢請伍麗華委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":52,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-7","speakers":["邱志偉","林岱樺","邱議瑩","楊瓊瓔","張嘉郡","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","呂玉玲","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鄭正鈐","蔡易餘","賴瑞隆","牛煦庭","王鴻薇","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","廖偉翔","陳超明"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1138702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138702_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長就「我國碳費徵收機制對產業衝擊之影響評估，及政府協助企\n業因應之配套措施」進行報告，並備質詢；二、邀請經濟部首長、環境部首長、財政部首長就\n「我國碳邊境調整機制（CBAM）推動規劃」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138702_00001"}}}