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\"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"緣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 492.685, \"end\": 492.705, \"score\": 0.009}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}]}, {\"start\": 508.399, \"end\": 508.499, \"text\": \"吳春城議員\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"春\", \"start\": 508.399, \"end\": 508.479, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"城\", \"start\": 508.479, \"end\": 508.499, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}]}, {\"start\": 526.934, \"end\": 541.554, \"text\": \"啊這個會很寬限的三個月針對這樣子的人口變化壯世代的真正的面對對我們的一個文化的政策可以提出這個方案來可以嗎部長三個月其實我們在許多\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 526.934, \"end\": 528.096, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 528.096, \"end\": 528.316, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"寬\"}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 528.316, \"end\": 528.496, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 528.496, \"end\": 528.636, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 528.636, \"end\": 528.997, \"score\": 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\"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,132 --> 00:00:09,274\n有請部長吳委員你好\n\n2\n00:00:36,992 --> 00:00:53,486\n但是行政院寸土不浪所以有點卡在這裡不過這個我想跟我們無關啦凱撒的歸凱撒文化的歸文化好不好所以希望我們的文化政策推動\n\n3\n00:00:55,167 --> 00:01:14,237\n是超黨派的不要受到這些其實那個是一個政爭的影響部長我一直很尊敬你是一個文化人所以文化人有文化的理想文化的夢想所以呢我覺得還是本乎初心我們做好文化工作\n\n4\n00:01:17,100 --> 00:01:29,136\n我問部長一下因為上禮拜是國發會發布的最新的人口推估部長有看到那個資料嗎有看到所以台灣的人口危機\n\n5\n00:01:30,598 --> 00:01:30,758\n吳春城\n\n6\n00:01:54,319 --> 00:02:18,826\n這一個這是一個大環境整個大的那這個人口危機我標題叫文化當者部長你認同嗎認同你認同嗎所以呢其實這個是我們在做文化工作的以前的叫省舵天下大事引領時代風騷這就是一個文化人的一個\n\n7\n00:02:21,006 --> 00:02:41,015\n這個就是大家都可以看到我們這個臺灣人口少子化高齡化已經定型了這個過去花了很多的時間在政府推動少子化顯然是沒有發揮很大的效果我們的少子化今年到了0.87這個是這個更加的惡化\n\n8\n00:02:47,267 --> 00:03:14,614\n那從這個少子高齡化社會已經定型了不用再懷疑了所以我們要為這個未來的這個社會去重塑因為這個變化為什麼需要文化因為過去金字塔型的以這個兒童為主的那個社會已經變成到金字塔型的這個社會的變化太大了那需要文化的重塑觀念的重塑\n\n9\n00:03:15,274 --> 00:03:28,240\n所以這一點這個沒有做好的話市場會萎縮企業會倒閉負稅加重撫養加重消費消退這是一個全面性的這個是一個國家的危機國安危機這個部長認同吧\n\n10\n00:03:30,761 --> 00:03:46,795\n完全認同現在為什麼我一直在推壯時代因為解放就在這裡因為未來增加的是這一方面的人我們一定要往增加的人來找解放不是往減少的地方來找解放\n\n11\n00:03:47,335 --> 00:04:00,330\n是嗎?而且這裡掌握三分之財富所有的資源在這裡一定要把這裡龐大的我們視為無用的人把它激發出來這才是未來救國之道部長認同嗎?\n\n12\n00:04:02,850 --> 00:04:03,010\n吳春城議員\n\n13\n00:04:17,805 --> 00:04:17,885\n吳春城議員\n\n14\n00:04:35,025 --> 00:05:01,452\n這就是國外提出的警訊因為人口結構的明顯已經變成長期化了他要協同各部會來針對少子化勞動市場經濟產業財政收支社會環境這些議題都跟人口有問題那這個請問跟文化部的關係其實我在上個會期我就質詢過希望文化部把壯世代的文化\n\n15\n00:05:02,913 --> 00:05:06,498\n產業需求納入這個調查報告當中不曉得這個計畫進行如何\n\n16\n00:05:13,951 --> 00:05:16,893\n我不是要給你們邀請我是要跟你們同工一起把這事情做好\n\n17\n00:05:44,621 --> 00:06:11,693\n另外一個在勞動力上面因為這不是開玩笑的事情台灣的高齡者勞參率亞洲最低再來的話這個是國防會的推估報告當中其實現在45歲以上的勞參率已經成為主流已經高於45歲以下的但是我們的社會很多像104什麼聘用員工45歲以上都不聘用了你知道嗎\n\n18\n00:06:12,987 --> 00:06:26,037\n我們都認為這些都是高齡者是無用就是退化的人了我們企業很多但是他已經成為社會主力如果繼續在這樣的一個價值觀念未來是找不到勞工的\n\n19\n00:06:27,674 --> 00:06:27,794\n吳春城議員\n\n20\n00:06:51,790 --> 00:07:14,531\n普遍的企業是歧視高齡者政府帶頭其實解放就在文化部了上次我們有公聽會也很感謝徐宜君次長全程參與了4個小時然後也表達了對壯世代強調壯世代多元文化的參與還有對這個市場的重視\n\n21\n00:07:17,932 --> 00:07:46,341\n但是呢我們在做壯世代的文化調查各部會現在有13個部會加入壯世代文化部的回覆是預算是零那所以呢OK我現在沒有但我知道文化部是很清楚該怎麼做比如說性平性平的這樣子的當你要引導整個對性平的歧視的時候文化部就推出你看這麼多的作為\n\n22\n00:07:47,782 --> 00:08:10,283\n這麼多的作為所以我相信這個壯世代是一個高齡解放的文化運動它的本質就是高齡解放的文化運動那文化不要當這個時代的起手所以呢這個如果你想做我相信可以規劃出很多\n\n23\n00:08:11,084 --> 00:08:12,705\n我可以看得出來文化部還是把它當作一個邊緣的議題\n\n24\n00:08:28,399 --> 00:08:28,499\n吳春城議員\n\n25\n00:08:46,934 --> 00:09:01,554\n啊這個會很寬限的三個月針對這樣子的人口變化壯世代的真正的面對對我們的一個文化的政策可以提出這個方案來可以嗎部長三個月其實我們在許多\n\n26\n00:09:02,835 --> 00:09:27,249\n計劃也都跟這個有關只是沒有把委員講的中壯世代這個range把它變成是一個好像弱勢團體那我們可以整理出不是弱勢團體它是強壯的團體只是你們把它當弱勢團體我們的文化界把這些人當弱勢團體不是我說你因為你剛才講文化部是編的是零我覺得不是我們是把它分散在所有的那個活動裡但是呢我們把它整理出來給各位委員但是這是一個重點的議題\n\n27\n00:09:28,790 --> 00:09:57,383\n這是一個有策略性的議題因為問題的發生都在這裡解放也在這裡我們經常政府喜歡把它打散我是文化是全民性的你全民性交360度策略360度叫原地打轉策略就叫做沒有策略沒有想法想到什麼做什麼就叫全面性策略問題已經就是在這高齡者壯世代不是特殊族群他是高齡者讓我們去汙名化以後叫做壯世代\n\n28\n00:09:58,123 --> 00:09:58,143\n謝謝部長謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7132\t9274\t有請部長吳委員你好\n36992\t53486\t但是行政院寸土不浪所以有點卡在這裡不過這個我想跟我們無關啦凱撒的歸凱撒文化的歸文化好不好所以希望我們的文化政策推動\n55167\t74237\t是超黨派的不要受到這些其實那個是一個政爭的影響部長我一直很尊敬你是一個文化人所以文化人有文化的理想文化的夢想所以呢我覺得還是本乎初心我們做好文化工作\n77100\t89136\t我問部長一下因為上禮拜是國發會發布的最新的人口推估部長有看到那個資料嗎有看到所以台灣的人口危機\n90598\t90758\t吳春城\n114319\t138826\t這一個這是一個大環境整個大的那這個人口危機我標題叫文化當者部長你認同嗎認同你認同嗎所以呢其實這個是我們在做文化工作的以前的叫省舵天下大事引領時代風騷這就是一個文化人的一個\n141006\t161015\t這個就是大家都可以看到我們這個臺灣人口少子化高齡化已經定型了這個過去花了很多的時間在政府推動少子化顯然是沒有發揮很大的效果我們的少子化今年到了0.87這個是這個更加的惡化\n167267\t194614\t那從這個少子高齡化社會已經定型了不用再懷疑了所以我們要為這個未來的這個社會去重塑因為這個變化為什麼需要文化因為過去金字塔型的以這個兒童為主的那個社會已經變成到金字塔型的這個社會的變化太大了那需要文化的重塑觀念的重塑\n195274\t208240\t所以這一點 這個沒有做好的話市場會萎縮 企業會倒閉 負稅加重 撫養加重 消費消退這是一個全面性的 這個是一個國家的危機 國安危機 這個部長認同吧\n210761\t226795\t完全認同現在為什麼我一直在推壯時代因為解放就在這裡因為未來增加的是這一方面的人我們一定要往增加的人來找解放不是往減少的地方來找解放\n227335\t240330\t是嗎?而且這裡掌握三分之財富所有的資源在這裡一定要把這裡龐大的我們視為無用的人把它激發出來這才是未來救國之道部長認同嗎?\n242850\t243010\t吳春城議員\n257805\t257885\t吳春城議員\n275025\t301452\t這就是國外提出的警訊因為人口結構的明顯已經變成長期化了他要協同各部會來針對少子化勞動市場經濟產業財政收支社會環境這些議題都跟人口有問題那這個請問跟文化部的關係其實我在上個會期我就質詢過希望文化部把壯世代的文化\n302913\t306498\t產業需求納入這個調查報告當中不曉得這個計畫進行如何\n313951\t316893\t我不是要給你們邀請我是要跟你們同工一起把這事情做好\n344621\t371693\t另外一個在勞動力上面因為這不是開玩笑的事情台灣的高齡者勞參率亞洲最低再來的話這個是國防會的推估報告當中其實現在45歲以上的勞參率已經成為主流已經高於45歲以下的但是我們的社會很多像104什麼聘用員工45歲以上都不聘用了你知道嗎\n372987\t386037\t我們都認為這些都是高齡者是無用就是退化的人了我們企業很多但是他已經成為社會主力如果繼續在這樣的一個價值觀念未來是找不到勞工的\n387674\t387794\t吳春城議員\n411790\t434531\t普遍的企業是歧視高齡者政府帶頭其實解放就在文化部了上次我們有公聽會也很感謝徐宜君次長全程參與了4個小時然後也表達了對壯世代強調壯世代多元文化的參與還有對這個市場的重視\n437932\t466341\t但是呢我們在做壯世代的文化調查各部會現在有13個部會加入壯世代文化部的回覆是預算是零那所以呢OK我現在沒有但我知道文化部是很清楚該怎麼做比如說性平性平的這樣子的當你要引導整個對性平的歧視的時候文化部就推出你看這麼多的作為\n467782\t490283\t這麼多的作為所以我相信這個壯世代是一個高齡解放的文化運動它的本質就是高齡解放的文化運動那文化不要當這個時代的起手所以呢這個如果你想做我相信可以規劃出很多\n491084\t492705\t我可以看得出來文化部還是把它當作一個邊緣的議題\n508399\t508499\t吳春城議員\n526934\t541554\t啊這個會很寬限的三個月針對這樣子的人口變化壯世代的真正的面對對我們的一個文化的政策可以提出這個方案來可以嗎部長三個月其實我們在許多\n542835\t567249\t計劃也都跟這個有關只是沒有把委員講的中壯世代這個range把它變成是一個好像弱勢團體那我們可以整理出不是弱勢團體它是強壯的團體只是你們把它當弱勢團體我們的文化界把這些人當弱勢團體不是我說你因為你剛才講文化部是編的是零我覺得不是我們是把它分散在所有的那個活動裡但是呢我們把它整理出來給各位委員但是這是一個重點的議題\n568790\t597383\t這是一個有策略性的議題因為問題的發生都在這裡解放也在這裡我們經常政府喜歡把它打散我是文化是全民性的你全民性交360度策略360度叫原地打轉策略就叫做沒有策略沒有想法想到什麼做什麼就叫全面性策略問題已經就是在這高齡者壯世代不是特殊族群他是高齡者讓我們去汙名化以後叫做壯世代\n598123\t598143\t謝謝部長 謝謝\n","txt":"有請部長吳委員你好\n但是行政院寸土不浪所以有點卡在這裡不過這個我想跟我們無關啦凱撒的歸凱撒文化的歸文化好不好所以希望我們的文化政策推動\n是超黨派的不要受到這些其實那個是一個政爭的影響部長我一直很尊敬你是一個文化人所以文化人有文化的理想文化的夢想所以呢我覺得還是本乎初心我們做好文化工作\n我問部長一下因為上禮拜是國發會發布的最新的人口推估部長有看到那個資料嗎有看到所以台灣的人口危機\n吳春城\n這一個這是一個大環境整個大的那這個人口危機我標題叫文化當者部長你認同嗎認同你認同嗎所以呢其實這個是我們在做文化工作的以前的叫省舵天下大事引領時代風騷這就是一個文化人的一個\n這個就是大家都可以看到我們這個臺灣人口少子化高齡化已經定型了這個過去花了很多的時間在政府推動少子化顯然是沒有發揮很大的效果我們的少子化今年到了0.87這個是這個更加的惡化\n那從這個少子高齡化社會已經定型了不用再懷疑了所以我們要為這個未來的這個社會去重塑因為這個變化為什麼需要文化因為過去金字塔型的以這個兒童為主的那個社會已經變成到金字塔型的這個社會的變化太大了那需要文化的重塑觀念的重塑\n所以這一點 這個沒有做好的話市場會萎縮 企業會倒閉 負稅加重 撫養加重 消費消退這是一個全面性的 這個是一個國家的危機 國安危機 這個部長認同吧\n完全認同現在為什麼我一直在推壯時代因為解放就在這裡因為未來增加的是這一方面的人我們一定要往增加的人來找解放不是往減少的地方來找解放\n是嗎?而且這裡掌握三分之財富所有的資源在這裡一定要把這裡龐大的我們視為無用的人把它激發出來這才是未來救國之道部長認同嗎?\n吳春城議員\n吳春城議員\n這就是國外提出的警訊因為人口結構的明顯已經變成長期化了他要協同各部會來針對少子化勞動市場經濟產業財政收支社會環境這些議題都跟人口有問題那這個請問跟文化部的關係其實我在上個會期我就質詢過希望文化部把壯世代的文化\n產業需求納入這個調查報告當中不曉得這個計畫進行如何\n我不是要給你們邀請我是要跟你們同工一起把這事情做好\n另外一個在勞動力上面因為這不是開玩笑的事情台灣的高齡者勞參率亞洲最低再來的話這個是國防會的推估報告當中其實現在45歲以上的勞參率已經成為主流已經高於45歲以下的但是我們的社會很多像104什麼聘用員工45歲以上都不聘用了你知道嗎\n我們都認為這些都是高齡者是無用就是退化的人了我們企業很多但是他已經成為社會主力如果繼續在這樣的一個價值觀念未來是找不到勞工的\n吳春城議員\n普遍的企業是歧視高齡者政府帶頭其實解放就在文化部了上次我們有公聽會也很感謝徐宜君次長全程參與了4個小時然後也表達了對壯世代強調壯世代多元文化的參與還有對這個市場的重視\n但是呢我們在做壯世代的文化調查各部會現在有13個部會加入壯世代文化部的回覆是預算是零那所以呢OK我現在沒有但我知道文化部是很清楚該怎麼做比如說性平性平的這樣子的當你要引導整個對性平的歧視的時候文化部就推出你看這麼多的作為\n這麼多的作為所以我相信這個壯世代是一個高齡解放的文化運動它的本質就是高齡解放的文化運動那文化不要當這個時代的起手所以呢這個如果你想做我相信可以規劃出很多\n我可以看得出來文化部還是把它當作一個邊緣的議題\n吳春城議員\n啊這個會很寬限的三個月針對這樣子的人口變化壯世代的真正的面對對我們的一個文化的政策可以提出這個方案來可以嗎部長三個月其實我們在許多\n計劃也都跟這個有關只是沒有把委員講的中壯世代這個range把它變成是一個好像弱勢團體那我們可以整理出不是弱勢團體它是強壯的團體只是你們把它當弱勢團體我們的文化界把這些人當弱勢團體不是我說你因為你剛才講文化部是編的是零我覺得不是我們是把它分散在所有的那個活動裡但是呢我們把它整理出來給各位委員但是這是一個重點的議題\n這是一個有策略性的議題因為問題的發生都在這裡解放也在這裡我們經常政府喜歡把它打散我是文化是全民性的你全民性交360度策略360度叫原地打轉策略就叫做沒有策略沒有想法想到什麼做什麼就叫全面性策略問題已經就是在這高齡者壯世代不是特殊族群他是高齡者讓我們去汙名化以後叫做壯世代\n謝謝部長 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.132 --> 00:09.274\n有請部長吳委員你好\n\n00:36.992 --> 00:53.486\n但是行政院寸土不浪所以有點卡在這裡不過這個我想跟我們無關啦凱撒的歸凱撒文化的歸文化好不好所以希望我們的文化政策推動\n\n00:55.167 --> 01:14.237\n是超黨派的不要受到這些其實那個是一個政爭的影響部長我一直很尊敬你是一個文化人所以文化人有文化的理想文化的夢想所以呢我覺得還是本乎初心我們做好文化工作\n\n01:17.100 --> 01:29.136\n我問部長一下因為上禮拜是國發會發布的最新的人口推估部長有看到那個資料嗎有看到所以台灣的人口危機\n\n01:30.598 --> 01:30.758\n吳春城\n\n01:54.319 --> 02:18.826\n這一個這是一個大環境整個大的那這個人口危機我標題叫文化當者部長你認同嗎認同你認同嗎所以呢其實這個是我們在做文化工作的以前的叫省舵天下大事引領時代風騷這就是一個文化人的一個\n\n02:21.006 --> 02:41.015\n這個就是大家都可以看到我們這個臺灣人口少子化高齡化已經定型了這個過去花了很多的時間在政府推動少子化顯然是沒有發揮很大的效果我們的少子化今年到了0.87這個是這個更加的惡化\n\n02:47.267 --> 03:14.614\n那從這個少子高齡化社會已經定型了不用再懷疑了所以我們要為這個未來的這個社會去重塑因為這個變化為什麼需要文化因為過去金字塔型的以這個兒童為主的那個社會已經變成到金字塔型的這個社會的變化太大了那需要文化的重塑觀念的重塑\n\n03:15.274 --> 03:28.240\n所以這一點這個沒有做好的話市場會萎縮企業會倒閉負稅加重撫養加重消費消退這是一個全面性的這個是一個國家的危機國安危機這個部長認同吧\n\n03:30.761 --> 03:46.795\n完全認同現在為什麼我一直在推壯時代因為解放就在這裡因為未來增加的是這一方面的人我們一定要往增加的人來找解放不是往減少的地方來找解放\n\n03:47.335 --> 04:00.330\n是嗎?而且這裡掌握三分之財富所有的資源在這裡一定要把這裡龐大的我們視為無用的人把它激發出來這才是未來救國之道部長認同嗎?\n\n04:02.850 --> 04:03.010\n吳春城議員\n\n04:17.805 --> 04:17.885\n吳春城議員\n\n04:35.025 --> 05:01.452\n這就是國外提出的警訊因為人口結構的明顯已經變成長期化了他要協同各部會來針對少子化勞動市場經濟產業財政收支社會環境這些議題都跟人口有問題那這個請問跟文化部的關係其實我在上個會期我就質詢過希望文化部把壯世代的文化\n\n05:02.913 --> 05:06.498\n產業需求納入這個調查報告當中不曉得這個計畫進行如何\n\n05:13.951 --> 05:16.893\n我不是要給你們邀請我是要跟你們同工一起把這事情做好\n\n05:44.621 --> 06:11.693\n另外一個在勞動力上面因為這不是開玩笑的事情台灣的高齡者勞參率亞洲最低再來的話這個是國防會的推估報告當中其實現在45歲以上的勞參率已經成為主流已經高於45歲以下的但是我們的社會很多像104什麼聘用員工45歲以上都不聘用了你知道嗎\n\n06:12.987 --> 06:26.037\n我們都認為這些都是高齡者是無用就是退化的人了我們企業很多但是他已經成為社會主力如果繼續在這樣的一個價值觀念未來是找不到勞工的\n\n06:27.674 --> 06:27.794\n吳春城議員\n\n06:51.790 --> 07:14.531\n普遍的企業是歧視高齡者政府帶頭其實解放就在文化部了上次我們有公聽會也很感謝徐宜君次長全程參與了4個小時然後也表達了對壯世代強調壯世代多元文化的參與還有對這個市場的重視\n\n07:17.932 --> 07:46.341\n但是呢我們在做壯世代的文化調查各部會現在有13個部會加入壯世代文化部的回覆是預算是零那所以呢OK我現在沒有但我知道文化部是很清楚該怎麼做比如說性平性平的這樣子的當你要引導整個對性平的歧視的時候文化部就推出你看這麼多的作為\n\n07:47.782 --> 08:10.283\n這麼多的作為所以我相信這個壯世代是一個高齡解放的文化運動它的本質就是高齡解放的文化運動那文化不要當這個時代的起手所以呢這個如果你想做我相信可以規劃出很多\n\n08:11.084 --> 08:12.705\n我可以看得出來文化部還是把它當作一個邊緣的議題\n\n08:28.399 --> 08:28.499\n吳春城議員\n\n08:46.934 --> 09:01.554\n啊這個會很寬限的三個月針對這樣子的人口變化壯世代的真正的面對對我們的一個文化的政策可以提出這個方案來可以嗎部長三個月其實我們在許多\n\n09:02.835 --> 09:27.249\n計劃也都跟這個有關只是沒有把委員講的中壯世代這個range把它變成是一個好像弱勢團體那我們可以整理出不是弱勢團體它是強壯的團體只是你們把它當弱勢團體我們的文化界把這些人當弱勢團體不是我說你因為你剛才講文化部是編的是零我覺得不是我們是把它分散在所有的那個活動裡但是呢我們把它整理出來給各位委員但是這是一個重點的議題\n\n09:28.790 --> 09:57.383\n這是一個有策略性的議題因為問題的發生都在這裡解放也在這裡我們經常政府喜歡把它打散我是文化是全民性的你全民性交360度策略360度叫原地打轉策略就叫做沒有策略沒有想法想到什麼做什麼就叫全面性策略問題已經就是在這高齡者壯世代不是特殊族群他是高齡者讓我們去汙名化以後叫做壯世代\n\n09:58.123 --> 09:58.143\n謝謝部長謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.132,"end":9.274,"text":"有請部長吳委員你好"},{"start":36.992,"end":53.486,"text":"但是行政院寸土不浪所以有點卡在這裡不過這個我想跟我們無關啦凱撒的歸凱撒文化的歸文化好不好所以希望我們的文化政策推動"},{"start":55.167,"end":74.237,"text":"是超黨派的不要受到這些其實那個是一個政爭的影響部長我一直很尊敬你是一個文化人所以文化人有文化的理想文化的夢想所以呢我覺得還是本乎初心我們做好文化工作"},{"start":77.1,"end":89.136,"text":"我問部長一下因為上禮拜是國發會發布的最新的人口推估部長有看到那個資料嗎有看到所以台灣的人口危機"},{"start":90.598,"end":90.758,"text":"吳春城"},{"start":114.319,"end":138.826,"text":"這一個這是一個大環境整個大的那這個人口危機我標題叫文化當者部長你認同嗎認同你認同嗎所以呢其實這個是我們在做文化工作的以前的叫省舵天下大事引領時代風騷這就是一個文化人的一個"},{"start":141.006,"end":161.015,"text":"這個就是大家都可以看到我們這個臺灣人口少子化高齡化已經定型了這個過去花了很多的時間在政府推動少子化顯然是沒有發揮很大的效果我們的少子化今年到了0.87這個是這個更加的惡化"},{"start":167.267,"end":194.614,"text":"那從這個少子高齡化社會已經定型了不用再懷疑了所以我們要為這個未來的這個社會去重塑因為這個變化為什麼需要文化因為過去金字塔型的以這個兒童為主的那個社會已經變成到金字塔型的這個社會的變化太大了那需要文化的重塑觀念的重塑"},{"start":195.274,"end":208.24,"text":"所以這一點 這個沒有做好的話市場會萎縮 企業會倒閉 負稅加重 撫養加重 消費消退這是一個全面性的 這個是一個國家的危機 國安危機 這個部長認同吧"},{"start":210.761,"end":226.795,"text":"完全認同現在為什麼我一直在推壯時代因為解放就在這裡因為未來增加的是這一方面的人我們一定要往增加的人來找解放不是往減少的地方來找解放"},{"start":227.335,"end":240.33,"text":"是嗎?而且這裡掌握三分之財富所有的資源在這裡一定要把這裡龐大的我們視為無用的人把它激發出來這才是未來救國之道部長認同嗎?"},{"start":242.85,"end":243.01,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":257.805,"end":257.885,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":275.025,"end":301.452,"text":"這就是國外提出的警訊因為人口結構的明顯已經變成長期化了他要協同各部會來針對少子化勞動市場經濟產業財政收支社會環境這些議題都跟人口有問題那這個請問跟文化部的關係其實我在上個會期我就質詢過希望文化部把壯世代的文化"},{"start":302.913,"end":306.498,"text":"產業需求納入這個調查報告當中不曉得這個計畫進行如何"},{"start":313.951,"end":316.893,"text":"我不是要給你們邀請我是要跟你們同工一起把這事情做好"},{"start":344.621,"end":371.693,"text":"另外一個在勞動力上面因為這不是開玩笑的事情台灣的高齡者勞參率亞洲最低再來的話這個是國防會的推估報告當中其實現在45歲以上的勞參率已經成為主流已經高於45歲以下的但是我們的社會很多像104什麼聘用員工45歲以上都不聘用了你知道嗎"},{"start":372.987,"end":386.037,"text":"我們都認為這些都是高齡者是無用就是退化的人了我們企業很多但是他已經成為社會主力如果繼續在這樣的一個價值觀念未來是找不到勞工的"},{"start":387.674,"end":387.794,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":411.79,"end":434.531,"text":"普遍的企業是歧視高齡者政府帶頭其實解放就在文化部了上次我們有公聽會也很感謝徐宜君次長全程參與了4個小時然後也表達了對壯世代強調壯世代多元文化的參與還有對這個市場的重視"},{"start":437.932,"end":466.341,"text":"但是呢我們在做壯世代的文化調查各部會現在有13個部會加入壯世代文化部的回覆是預算是零那所以呢OK我現在沒有但我知道文化部是很清楚該怎麼做比如說性平性平的這樣子的當你要引導整個對性平的歧視的時候文化部就推出你看這麼多的作為"},{"start":467.782,"end":490.283,"text":"這麼多的作為所以我相信這個壯世代是一個高齡解放的文化運動它的本質就是高齡解放的文化運動那文化不要當這個時代的起手所以呢這個如果你想做我相信可以規劃出很多"},{"start":491.084,"end":492.705,"text":"我可以看得出來文化部還是把它當作一個邊緣的議題"},{"start":508.399,"end":508.499,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":526.934,"end":541.554,"text":"啊這個會很寬限的三個月針對這樣子的人口變化壯世代的真正的面對對我們的一個文化的政策可以提出這個方案來可以嗎部長三個月其實我們在許多"},{"start":542.835,"end":567.249,"text":"計劃也都跟這個有關只是沒有把委員講的中壯世代這個range把它變成是一個好像弱勢團體那我們可以整理出不是弱勢團體它是強壯的團體只是你們把它當弱勢團體我們的文化界把這些人當弱勢團體不是我說你因為你剛才講文化部是編的是零我覺得不是我們是把它分散在所有的那個活動裡但是呢我們把它整理出來給各位委員但是這是一個重點的議題"},{"start":568.79,"end":597.383,"text":"這是一個有策略性的議題因為問題的發生都在這裡解放也在這裡我們經常政府喜歡把它打散我是文化是全民性的你全民性交360度策略360度叫原地打轉策略就叫做沒有策略沒有想法想到什麼做什麼就叫全面性策略問題已經就是在這高齡者壯世代不是特殊族群他是高齡者讓我們去汙名化以後叫做壯世代"},{"start":598.123,"end":598.143,"text":"謝謝部長 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":768,"blocks":[["吳委員春城：（11時47分）有請部長。"],["主席：我們有請李部長。"],["吳委員春城：部長好。"],["李部長遠：吳委員你好。"],["吳委員春城：你辛苦了。剛剛沛憶委員提到預算的問題，其實韓院長針對總預算已經召開了5次的協商，還吃了和解飯，算是盡心盡力了，但是行政院寸土不讓，所以有點卡在這裡，不過這個跟我們無關，凱撒的歸凱撒，文化的歸文化，好不好？希望我們文化政策的推動是超黨派的，不要受到這一些影響，其實那是一個政爭的影響。","部長，我一直很尊敬你是一個文化人，文化人有文化人的理想、文化人的夢想，所以我覺得還是本於初心做好文化工作。","請問部長一下，上禮拜四國發會發布了最新的人口推估，部長有看到那個資料嗎？有看到！所以臺灣的人口危機非常的嚴重，我們的出生率、出生的總額提早了15年，少子化提早了15年，本來推估破10萬人是在2055年，這是上次2022年的推估，而這次的推估是提早到2040年，可見我們有人口危機，而這是一整個大環境所致，關於人口危機，我的標題是「文化當責」，部長你認同嗎？"],["李部長遠：認同。"],["吳委員春城：其實我們在做這種文化工作的，以前叫做審度天下大勢，引領時代風騷，這就是文化人的一個態度，大家都可以看到我們臺灣人口少子化、高齡化已經定型了，過去政府花了很多的時間減緩少子化現象，顯然是沒有發揮很大的效果，我們的少子化今年到了0.87，可說是更加的惡化，少子高齡化社會已經定型了，不用再懷疑了，所以我們要為未來的社會去重塑，而這個變化為什麼需要文化？因為過去社會以兒童為主的金字塔型已經變成倒金字塔型了，這個社會的變化太大了，需要文化的重塑、觀念的重塑，這個沒有做好的話，市場萎縮、企業倒閉、賦稅加重、扶養加重、消費消退，這是全面性的，這是一個國家的危機、國安危機，這個部長認同吧？"],["李部長遠：完全認同。"],["吳委員春城：好，OK。現在為什麼我一直在推壯世代，因為解方就在這裡，而且未來增加的是這一方面的人，我們一定要往增加的人來找解方，不是往減少的地方來找解方，是吧？而且這裡掌握三分之二的財富，所有的資源都在這裡，一定要把這個龐大的、我們視為無用的人，把他們激發出來，這才是未來救國之道，部長認同嗎？"],["李部長遠：認同，尤其是我們戰後世代的人非常多，人口非常集中在戰後世代，戰後世代現在差不多是六、七十歲，所以如果能夠透由……"],["吳委員春城：特別是部長有談到戰後嬰兒潮，這是文化界最有資源的地方……"],["李部長遠：而且人最多。"],["吳委員春城：我們所有的民主化運動、全球化運動、數位化運動等等，都是戰後嬰兒潮引導出來的。"],["李部長遠：是。"],["吳委員春城：這些人都邁向60歲了或是超過60歲了，也就構成現在的高齡者，我們應好好善用他們這個文化資產。OK，這是國發會提出的警訊，因為人口結構的明顯改變已經長期化了，它要協同各部會針對少子化、勞動市場、經濟產業、財政收支、社會環境等，因為這些議題都跟人口有關，在此請教這些跟文化部的關係，其實我在上個會期就質詢過，希望文化部把壯世代的文化產業需求納入調查報告當中，不曉得這個計畫進行得如何？"],["李部長遠：調查報告正在執行中，但是談到壯世代，我們文化部已經在做的事情非常的多。"],["吳委員春城：我知道你有列進去了，但也是一點點啦！"],["李部長遠：也不會啊！就是滿全面的。"],["吳委員春城：好，我希望你上次承諾的報告可以提供給我，好不好？包括全面的。我不是要給你們壓力，我是要跟你們同工，一起把這些做好，好不好？","另外，在勞動力上面，這不是開玩笑的事情，臺灣高齡者勞參率是亞洲最低。再來，在國發會的推估報告當中，其實現在45歲以上的勞參率已經成為主流，已經高於45歲以下的，但是我們的社會像104在聘用員工時，很多45歲以上的都不聘用，你知道嗎？他們認為這些都是高齡者，是無用的人、是退化的人，我們企業很多都這樣認為，但是它已經成為社會主力，如果繼續存在這樣的價值觀念，未來是找不到勞工的，這個對經濟會有影響，所以我也跟勞動部提到了，現在勞動部把45歲以上定義為中高齡、高齡，但45歲是什麼？開始是老人嗎？不勞待退嗎？他覺得這是一個文化問題，而且企業普遍歧視高齡者，甚至政府帶頭歧視，而解方就在文化部了。","上次我們有開過公聽會，也很感謝我們徐宜君次長全程參與了4個小時，然後也表達並強調對壯世代多元文化的參與，還有對這個市場的重視，但是就我們做的壯世代文化調查，現在有13個部會加入壯世代跨部會小組，但文化部的回復中，相關編列的預算是零，但我知道文化部是很清楚該怎麼做的，比如說性平，當你要引導對性平歧視消減的時候，文化部就推出了這麼多的作為，所以我也相信接下來壯世代是一個高齡解放的文化運動，它的本質就是高齡解放的文化運動，文化部要當這個時代的旗手，如果你想做，我相信文化部可以規劃出很多具體的作為，各種展場、各種工具，包括電影、音樂、藝術，都可以表達並引導這個文化，但是現在我可以看得出來，文化部還是把它當作一個邊緣的議題，把它擱在那邊，只做小小的一部分。我們剛才也看到了，人口已經天翻地覆，這已經成為主流，文化部要當主流文化，而不是當那種分期的次文化，只是參與者而已，應該要當一個領導者，所以可不可以要求文化部，我已經寬限了，在3個月內，針對這樣子的人口變化，真正的面對壯世代，對於我們的文化政策提出相關的方案，可以嗎？部長，3個月可以嗎？"],["李部長遠：其實我們許多計畫也都跟這個有關，只是沒有把委員講的中壯世代這個range變成好像是一個弱勢團體，但我們可以整理出……"],["吳委員春城：不是弱勢團體，它是強壯的團體，不應把它當弱勢團體啊！我們的文化界把這些人當弱勢團體？"],["李部長遠：不是，因為你剛才講文化部編的是零，我覺得不是，我們是把它分散在所有的活動裡面，我們會把它整理出來提供給委員。"],["吳委員春城：但是這是一個重點的議題，這是一個有策略性的議題，因為問題的發生都在這裡，解方也在這裡，我們政府經常喜歡把它打散，說這是文化、是全民性的，雖然全民性叫做三百六十度策略，但三百六十度策略就叫做原地打轉策略，就叫做沒有策略、沒有想法，想到什麼就做什麼就叫做全面性策略，問題已經在這高齡者，壯世代不是特殊族群，他是高齡者，我們去污名化以後叫做壯世代，是有這樣一個認知，所以不要把壯世代當作一個特殊族群，就是高齡社會來臨了，這個對文化部是重中之重，要拜託部長了，可以嗎？"],["李部長遠：是，沒有問題。"],["吳委員春城：3個月內把這些計畫彙總好然後提出來，而且這個觀念是一個前瞻性的觀念，不是銀髮族，不是養老的、樂齡的那種簡單做一做的，好嗎？可以嗎？"],["李部長遠：是。"],["吳委員春城：好的，謝謝部長。"],["李部長遠：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳春城委員。","接下來我們有請范雲召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":382,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-5","speakers":["萬美玲","林倩綺","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葉元之","陳培瑜","林宜瑾","羅廷瑋","陳秀寳","葛如鈞","張雅琳","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","吳春城","范雲","陳菁徽","楊瓊瓔","徐富癸","郭國文","王鴻薇","陳亭妃","林楚茵","何欣純","蔡易餘","邱志偉","賴惠員","涂權吉","高金素梅"],"page_start":309,"meetingDate":["2024-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1138901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部部長李遠列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138901_00005"}}}