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00:01:37,512\n其實我覺得民眾在使用這個運輸的運具的過程當中大家的習慣是在改變似乎大家對於軌道的這個運輸是比較有信心或者是比較喜歡搭乘尤其這幾年我們的高鐵的這個服務的運量一直在提升當中那我自己搭高鐵長期在搭我看到的是幾乎班班客滿那非常多的人那確實我們也感受到說因為疫情的過程當中有一些民眾他的交通運具變成自己買車的也不少\n\n6\n00:01:38,112 --> 00:01:49,881\n那變成他的公路運輸的過程當中他就有可能會放棄公共的客運那變成自己的公路運輸我想提一下跟部長討論就是說其實高鐵是所有的\n\n7\n00:01:51,087 --> 00:02:18,930\n交通這三樣裡面費用最高的那客運其實也是動漲了非常久的時間沒什麼調漲這其實相對來講它是非常低的結果它的運量反而是萎縮的那單價高的高鐵它反而運量是增加的那就代表說價格只是影響到國人使用鐵道軌道運輸大眾運輸的一個其中的一項的考慮的因子而已\n\n8\n00:02:19,651 --> 00:02:22,580\n所以搭乘的速度、品質才是\n\n9\n00:02:23,812 --> 00:02:50,943\n國人要不要選擇搭乘大眾運輸的一個非常大的主要原因就像如果說國道科運你一直動漲假設當然你最近有說可能會調整你一直動漲你不讓他提升你讓他嫖嫁圍在那邊他的服務品質沒辦法提升的時候跟我們可能要推廣大眾運輸的一個方向反而是背道而馳的我們雖然說我們可能是想要保障一些弱勢等等的但是其實有時候弱勢這個東西\n\n10\n00:02:52,484 --> 00:03:19,215\n並不單單是我們交通部的責任他應該是被納到社會福利的一環應該是衛福部或是地方政府的社會局、社會處他才是主要去做一些補助的一個單位我們應該除了一些比較弱勢的民眾要考慮之外我們應該要去考慮所有有可能是我們大眾運輸工具使用者的客群來怎麼樣滿足他提升他們搭乘的誘因所以說\n\n11\n00:03:20,015 --> 00:03:29,879\n我要討論的其實是臺鐵的一個票價說真的我個人其實在這邊也一再的重申我的立場我真的不反對我們臺鐵去提升票價我在乎的是臺鐵能夠在調升票價的同時能夠提升給我們旅客\n\n12\n00:03:37,762 --> 00:03:58,971\n提升不管是我們準點率、班次的服務效能或是搭乘的舒適度我覺得這才是絕大多數搭乘大眾運輸的民眾最關心的一個課題今天不曉得針對班次的載客量因為我上次有在這邊說過我有一次要來開會的時候\n\n13\n00:04:00,191 --> 00:04:00,672\n臺鐵有沒有再提升運能的計畫?\n\n14\n00:04:16,135 --> 00:04:38,815\n剛剛委員報告有因為我們現在還在持續投入新車新車都是大編組的所以運能是還可以再提升所以目前有一些可能還是四列的編組然後未來可能會投入八輛的編組那最近一起可能會再有這樣子的編組的一個改正的時機點會大概在哪邊\n\n15\n00:04:39,736 --> 00:04:55,938\n改正的時機點應該是在明年年中的時候明年年中因為我們現在E500進來只是初期而已是我們大概正常上限運轉大概要到明年年中跟下半年就會比較正常可以正常的輪替\n\n16\n00:04:56,499 --> 00:05:21,038\n好那如果說以明年底跟今年底來做比較的話那我們這個就講都會區啊都會區可能北北基桃這樣子的一個乘風見風時刻的我們的載客的量那可以提升多少大概10%左右可以再提升10%的運能好那就拜託我們臺鐵準準時啦因為我們常常在交車的時候常常不一定是你們的問題啦常常都晚\n\n17\n00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:36,409\n另外跟兩位討論一下就是說我們鼓勵國人國旅但是討論國旅的時候我們也鼓勵我們的國人要多多使用我們的大眾運輸包括我們的鐵道\n\n18\n00:05:39,588 --> 00:06:06,673\n我們的鐵道在過去可能大家只是把它當作一個運輸工具的一個部分而已那其實在很多知名的景點、國外一些好的一個地方其實在旅途的過程中其實它已經就是已經在進入了它的一個旅程當中了比如說我們要去迪士尼玩迪士尼專門列車你一進去就有這個沉浸感了嘛對不對或者是說我們去日本的京都他們的嵐山\n\n19\n00:06:07,893 --> 00:06:08,954\n二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就\n\n20\n00:06:25,822 --> 00:06:40,343\n觀光列車的一個計畫那原定好像要在明年上路嗎?不曉得相關的啟程是怎麼樣?因為我剛剛委員提到的山南跟海豐澳好像都延了兩三年才上路啦那關於我們支線的觀光列車的一個進度\n\n21\n00:06:40,974 --> 00:07:08,985\n市政委員報告這個不太一樣山南海豐是我們的觀光型的列車是那那個剛剛委員提到的支線它也是一種觀光型的列車但是它還兼附我們一般支線的輸運是所以不太一樣是那上線的騎乘我們現在的這個進程因為那是臺鐵臺車臺車在製造我們正在跟它緊密配合我們現在預估是要到115年\n\n22\n00:07:10,806 --> 00:07:33,493\n因為最近的新聞看好像我瀏覽一下新聞啦最近的新聞原本是說明年中啦第一輛可能可以交那現在又延到2025要延到20262026的應該是第一季或第二季第一季第二季那我們首輛投入的一個列車你會選擇在哪一條支線會先來營業現在還沒有訂還沒有訂喔\n\n23\n00:07:35,033 --> 00:08:03,055\n因為其實我們所有的支線應該是以平溪線的一個運量來最高應該是最高的啦那在疫情前搭乘人士應該都是破百萬的都是其他支線好幾倍那我在這邊也拜託是不是我們當然時間就拜託台車台車那邊儘快那我也希望說第一輛列車可以讓我們來投入到我們的平溪線營運一部分是它的一個效益會最大\n\n24\n00:08:03,635 --> 00:08:28,424\n最大因為搭乘的人是會是最多的他也是最有指標性的那一部分也是希望說我們這個指標性的出來之後我們國人對我們臺鐵的一個社會形象也都有正面的幫助好不好那可能後續再麻煩杜董事長請同仁來辦公室說明一下我們可能剛剛提到兩個部分一個是北北基桃的這個你說四列改八列的一個\n\n25\n00:08:29,264 --> 00:08:36,493\n運燃提升的部分那另外一個就是這個觀光支線列車的一個相關的一個進程跟進度以及比較細部的規劃好不好謝謝部長謝謝董事長謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2093\t2936\t交通部陳部長、杜董事長\n13835\t24498\t部長好、董事長好其實以我們交通部管的幾個國內的運輸業高鐵、臺鐵還有客運這應該三大宗這幾年其實它的運量高鐵其實是穩定的在爬升對不對臺鐵雖然我們的報告比去年還好但是其實\n37842\t38963\t二、邀請交通部鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱及文化部主席\n59997\t61782\t部長這三個這麼大的一個國內客運的一個運輸體我醞釀這樣子的變化那對你有怎樣的啟示?\n68994\t97512\t其實我覺得民眾在使用這個運輸的運具的過程當中大家的習慣是在改變似乎大家對於軌道的這個運輸是比較有信心或者是比較喜歡搭乘尤其這幾年我們的高鐵的這個服務的運量一直在提升當中那我自己搭高鐵長期在搭我看到的是幾乎班班客滿那非常多的人那確實我們也感受到說因為疫情的過程當中有一些民眾他的交通運具變成自己買車的也不少\n98112\t109881\t那變成他的公路運輸的過程當中他就有可能會放棄公共的客運那變成自己的公路運輸我想提一下跟部長討論就是說其實高鐵是所有的\n111087\t138930\t交通這三樣裡面費用最高的那客運其實也是動漲了非常久的時間沒什麼調漲這其實相對來講它是非常低的結果它的運量反而是萎縮的那單價高的高鐵它反而運量是增加的那就代表說價格只是影響到國人使用鐵道軌道運輸大眾運輸的一個其中的一項的考慮的因子而已\n139651\t142580\t所以搭乘的速度、品質才是\n143812\t170943\t國人要不要選擇搭乘大眾運輸的一個非常大的主要原因就像如果說國道科運你一直動漲假設當然你最近有說可能會調整你一直動漲你不讓他提升你讓他嫖嫁圍在那邊他的服務品質沒辦法提升的時候跟我們可能要推廣大眾運輸的一個方向反而是背道而馳的我們雖然說我們可能是想要保障一些弱勢等等的但是其實有時候弱勢這個東西\n172484\t199215\t並不單單是我們交通部的責任他應該是被納到社會福利的一環應該是衛福部或是地方政府的社會局、社會處他才是主要去做一些補助的一個單位我們應該除了一些比較弱勢的民眾要考慮之外我們應該要去考慮所有有可能是我們大眾運輸工具使用者的客群來怎麼樣滿足他提升他們搭乘的誘因所以說\n200015\t209879\t我要討論的其實是臺鐵的一個票價說真的我個人其實在這邊也一再的重申我的立場我真的不反對我們臺鐵去提升票價我在乎的是臺鐵能夠在調升票價的同時能夠提升給我們旅客\n217762\t238971\t提升不管是我們準點率、班次的服務效能或是搭乘的舒適度我覺得這才是絕大多數搭乘大眾運輸的民眾最關心的一個課題今天不曉得針對班次的載客量因為我上次有在這邊說過我有一次要來開會的時候\n240191\t240672\t臺鐵有沒有再提升運能的計畫?\n256135\t278815\t剛剛委員報告有因為我們現在還在持續投入新車新車都是大編組的所以運能是還可以再提升所以目前有一些可能還是四列的編組然後未來可能會投入八輛的編組那最近一起可能會再有這樣子的編組的一個改正的時機點會大概在哪邊\n279736\t295938\t改正的時機點應該是在明年年中的時候明年年中因為我們現在E500進來只是初期而已是我們大概正常上限運轉大概要到明年年中跟下半年就會比較正常可以正常的輪替\n296499\t321038\t好那如果說以明年底跟今年底來做比較的話那我們這個就講都會區啊都會區可能北北基桃這樣子的一個乘風見風時刻的我們的載客的量那可以提升多少大概10%左右可以再提升10%的運能好那就拜託我們臺鐵準準時啦因為我們常常在交車的時候常常不一定是你們的問題啦常常都晚\n324160\t336409\t另外跟兩位討論一下就是說我們鼓勵國人國旅但是討論國旅的時候我們也鼓勵我們的國人要多多使用我們的大眾運輸包括我們的鐵道\n339588\t366673\t我們的鐵道在過去可能大家只是把它當作一個運輸工具的一個部分而已那其實在很多知名的景點、國外一些好的一個地方其實在旅途的過程中其實它已經就是已經在進入了它的一個旅程當中了比如說我們要去迪士尼玩迪士尼專門列車你一進去就有這個沉浸感了嘛對不對或者是說我們去日本的京都他們的嵐山\n367893\t368954\t二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就\n385822\t400343\t觀光列車的一個計畫那原定好像要在明年上路嗎?不曉得相關的啟程是怎麼樣?因為我剛剛委員提到的山南跟海豐澳好像都延了兩三年才上路啦那關於我們支線的觀光列車的一個進度\n400974\t428985\t市政委員報告這個不太一樣山南海豐是我們的觀光型的列車是那那個剛剛委員提到的支線它也是一種觀光型的列車但是它還兼附我們一般支線的輸運是所以不太一樣是那上線的騎乘我們現在的這個進程因為那是臺鐵臺車臺車在製造我們正在跟它緊密配合我們現在預估是要到115年\n430806\t453493\t因為最近的新聞看好像我瀏覽一下新聞啦最近的新聞原本是說明年中啦第一輛可能可以交那現在又延到2025要延到20262026的應該是第一季或第二季第一季第二季那我們首輛投入的一個列車你會選擇在哪一條支線會先來營業現在還沒有訂還沒有訂喔\n455033\t483055\t因為其實我們所有的支線應該是以平溪線的一個運量來最高應該是最高的啦那在疫情前搭乘人士應該都是破百萬的都是其他支線好幾倍那我在這邊也拜託是不是我們當然時間就拜託台車台車那邊儘快那我也希望說第一輛列車可以讓我們來投入到我們的平溪線營運一部分是它的一個效益會最大\n483635\t508424\t最大因為搭乘的人是會是最多的他也是最有指標性的那一部分也是希望說我們這個指標性的出來之後我們國人對我們臺鐵的一個社會形象也都有正面的幫助好不好那可能後續再麻煩杜董事長請同仁來辦公室說明一下我們可能剛剛提到兩個部分一個是北北基桃的這個你說四列改八列的一個\n509264\t516493\t運燃提升的部分那另外一個就是這個觀光支線列車的一個相關的一個進程跟進度以及比較細部的規劃好不好謝謝部長謝謝董事長謝謝委員\n","txt":"交通部陳部長、杜董事長\n部長好、董事長好其實以我們交通部管的幾個國內的運輸業高鐵、臺鐵還有客運這應該三大宗這幾年其實它的運量高鐵其實是穩定的在爬升對不對臺鐵雖然我們的報告比去年還好但是其實\n二、邀請交通部鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱及文化部主席\n部長這三個這麼大的一個國內客運的一個運輸體我醞釀這樣子的變化那對你有怎樣的啟示?\n其實我覺得民眾在使用這個運輸的運具的過程當中大家的習慣是在改變似乎大家對於軌道的這個運輸是比較有信心或者是比較喜歡搭乘尤其這幾年我們的高鐵的這個服務的運量一直在提升當中那我自己搭高鐵長期在搭我看到的是幾乎班班客滿那非常多的人那確實我們也感受到說因為疫情的過程當中有一些民眾他的交通運具變成自己買車的也不少\n那變成他的公路運輸的過程當中他就有可能會放棄公共的客運那變成自己的公路運輸我想提一下跟部長討論就是說其實高鐵是所有的\n交通這三樣裡面費用最高的那客運其實也是動漲了非常久的時間沒什麼調漲這其實相對來講它是非常低的結果它的運量反而是萎縮的那單價高的高鐵它反而運量是增加的那就代表說價格只是影響到國人使用鐵道軌道運輸大眾運輸的一個其中的一項的考慮的因子而已\n所以搭乘的速度、品質才是\n國人要不要選擇搭乘大眾運輸的一個非常大的主要原因就像如果說國道科運你一直動漲假設當然你最近有說可能會調整你一直動漲你不讓他提升你讓他嫖嫁圍在那邊他的服務品質沒辦法提升的時候跟我們可能要推廣大眾運輸的一個方向反而是背道而馳的我們雖然說我們可能是想要保障一些弱勢等等的但是其實有時候弱勢這個東西\n並不單單是我們交通部的責任他應該是被納到社會福利的一環應該是衛福部或是地方政府的社會局、社會處他才是主要去做一些補助的一個單位我們應該除了一些比較弱勢的民眾要考慮之外我們應該要去考慮所有有可能是我們大眾運輸工具使用者的客群來怎麼樣滿足他提升他們搭乘的誘因所以說\n我要討論的其實是臺鐵的一個票價說真的我個人其實在這邊也一再的重申我的立場我真的不反對我們臺鐵去提升票價我在乎的是臺鐵能夠在調升票價的同時能夠提升給我們旅客\n提升不管是我們準點率、班次的服務效能或是搭乘的舒適度我覺得這才是絕大多數搭乘大眾運輸的民眾最關心的一個課題今天不曉得針對班次的載客量因為我上次有在這邊說過我有一次要來開會的時候\n臺鐵有沒有再提升運能的計畫?\n剛剛委員報告有因為我們現在還在持續投入新車新車都是大編組的所以運能是還可以再提升所以目前有一些可能還是四列的編組然後未來可能會投入八輛的編組那最近一起可能會再有這樣子的編組的一個改正的時機點會大概在哪邊\n改正的時機點應該是在明年年中的時候明年年中因為我們現在E500進來只是初期而已是我們大概正常上限運轉大概要到明年年中跟下半年就會比較正常可以正常的輪替\n好那如果說以明年底跟今年底來做比較的話那我們這個就講都會區啊都會區可能北北基桃這樣子的一個乘風見風時刻的我們的載客的量那可以提升多少大概10%左右可以再提升10%的運能好那就拜託我們臺鐵準準時啦因為我們常常在交車的時候常常不一定是你們的問題啦常常都晚\n另外跟兩位討論一下就是說我們鼓勵國人國旅但是討論國旅的時候我們也鼓勵我們的國人要多多使用我們的大眾運輸包括我們的鐵道\n我們的鐵道在過去可能大家只是把它當作一個運輸工具的一個部分而已那其實在很多知名的景點、國外一些好的一個地方其實在旅途的過程中其實它已經就是已經在進入了它的一個旅程當中了比如說我們要去迪士尼玩迪士尼專門列車你一進去就有這個沉浸感了嘛對不對或者是說我們去日本的京都他們的嵐山\n二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就\n觀光列車的一個計畫那原定好像要在明年上路嗎?不曉得相關的啟程是怎麼樣?因為我剛剛委員提到的山南跟海豐澳好像都延了兩三年才上路啦那關於我們支線的觀光列車的一個進度\n市政委員報告這個不太一樣山南海豐是我們的觀光型的列車是那那個剛剛委員提到的支線它也是一種觀光型的列車但是它還兼附我們一般支線的輸運是所以不太一樣是那上線的騎乘我們現在的這個進程因為那是臺鐵臺車臺車在製造我們正在跟它緊密配合我們現在預估是要到115年\n因為最近的新聞看好像我瀏覽一下新聞啦最近的新聞原本是說明年中啦第一輛可能可以交那現在又延到2025要延到20262026的應該是第一季或第二季第一季第二季那我們首輛投入的一個列車你會選擇在哪一條支線會先來營業現在還沒有訂還沒有訂喔\n因為其實我們所有的支線應該是以平溪線的一個運量來最高應該是最高的啦那在疫情前搭乘人士應該都是破百萬的都是其他支線好幾倍那我在這邊也拜託是不是我們當然時間就拜託台車台車那邊儘快那我也希望說第一輛列車可以讓我們來投入到我們的平溪線營運一部分是它的一個效益會最大\n最大因為搭乘的人是會是最多的他也是最有指標性的那一部分也是希望說我們這個指標性的出來之後我們國人對我們臺鐵的一個社會形象也都有正面的幫助好不好那可能後續再麻煩杜董事長請同仁來辦公室說明一下我們可能剛剛提到兩個部分一個是北北基桃的這個你說四列改八列的一個\n運燃提升的部分那另外一個就是這個觀光支線列車的一個相關的一個進程跟進度以及比較細部的規劃好不好謝謝部長謝謝董事長謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.093 --> 00:02.936\n交通部陳部長、杜董事長\n\n00:13.835 --> 00:24.498\n部長好、董事長好其實以我們交通部管的幾個國內的運輸業高鐵、臺鐵還有客運這應該三大宗這幾年其實它的運量高鐵其實是穩定的在爬升對不對臺鐵雖然我們的報告比去年還好但是其實\n\n00:37.842 --> 00:38.963\n二、邀請交通部鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱及文化部主席\n\n00:59.997 --> 01:01.782\n部長這三個這麼大的一個國內客運的一個運輸體我醞釀這樣子的變化那對你有怎樣的啟示?\n\n01:08.994 --> 01:37.512\n其實我覺得民眾在使用這個運輸的運具的過程當中大家的習慣是在改變似乎大家對於軌道的這個運輸是比較有信心或者是比較喜歡搭乘尤其這幾年我們的高鐵的這個服務的運量一直在提升當中那我自己搭高鐵長期在搭我看到的是幾乎班班客滿那非常多的人那確實我們也感受到說因為疫情的過程當中有一些民眾他的交通運具變成自己買車的也不少\n\n01:38.112 --> 01:49.881\n那變成他的公路運輸的過程當中他就有可能會放棄公共的客運那變成自己的公路運輸我想提一下跟部長討論就是說其實高鐵是所有的\n\n01:51.087 --> 02:18.930\n交通這三樣裡面費用最高的那客運其實也是動漲了非常久的時間沒什麼調漲這其實相對來講它是非常低的結果它的運量反而是萎縮的那單價高的高鐵它反而運量是增加的那就代表說價格只是影響到國人使用鐵道軌道運輸大眾運輸的一個其中的一項的考慮的因子而已\n\n02:19.651 --> 02:22.580\n所以搭乘的速度、品質才是\n\n02:23.812 --> 02:50.943\n國人要不要選擇搭乘大眾運輸的一個非常大的主要原因就像如果說國道科運你一直動漲假設當然你最近有說可能會調整你一直動漲你不讓他提升你讓他嫖嫁圍在那邊他的服務品質沒辦法提升的時候跟我們可能要推廣大眾運輸的一個方向反而是背道而馳的我們雖然說我們可能是想要保障一些弱勢等等的但是其實有時候弱勢這個東西\n\n02:52.484 --> 03:19.215\n並不單單是我們交通部的責任他應該是被納到社會福利的一環應該是衛福部或是地方政府的社會局、社會處他才是主要去做一些補助的一個單位我們應該除了一些比較弱勢的民眾要考慮之外我們應該要去考慮所有有可能是我們大眾運輸工具使用者的客群來怎麼樣滿足他提升他們搭乘的誘因所以說\n\n03:20.015 --> 03:29.879\n我要討論的其實是臺鐵的一個票價說真的我個人其實在這邊也一再的重申我的立場我真的不反對我們臺鐵去提升票價我在乎的是臺鐵能夠在調升票價的同時能夠提升給我們旅客\n\n03:37.762 --> 03:58.971\n提升不管是我們準點率、班次的服務效能或是搭乘的舒適度我覺得這才是絕大多數搭乘大眾運輸的民眾最關心的一個課題今天不曉得針對班次的載客量因為我上次有在這邊說過我有一次要來開會的時候\n\n04:00.191 --> 04:00.672\n臺鐵有沒有再提升運能的計畫?\n\n04:16.135 --> 04:38.815\n剛剛委員報告有因為我們現在還在持續投入新車新車都是大編組的所以運能是還可以再提升所以目前有一些可能還是四列的編組然後未來可能會投入八輛的編組那最近一起可能會再有這樣子的編組的一個改正的時機點會大概在哪邊\n\n04:39.736 --> 04:55.938\n改正的時機點應該是在明年年中的時候明年年中因為我們現在E500進來只是初期而已是我們大概正常上限運轉大概要到明年年中跟下半年就會比較正常可以正常的輪替\n\n04:56.499 --> 05:21.038\n好那如果說以明年底跟今年底來做比較的話那我們這個就講都會區啊都會區可能北北基桃這樣子的一個乘風見風時刻的我們的載客的量那可以提升多少大概10%左右可以再提升10%的運能好那就拜託我們臺鐵準準時啦因為我們常常在交車的時候常常不一定是你們的問題啦常常都晚\n\n05:24.160 --> 05:36.409\n另外跟兩位討論一下就是說我們鼓勵國人國旅但是討論國旅的時候我們也鼓勵我們的國人要多多使用我們的大眾運輸包括我們的鐵道\n\n05:39.588 --> 06:06.673\n我們的鐵道在過去可能大家只是把它當作一個運輸工具的一個部分而已那其實在很多知名的景點、國外一些好的一個地方其實在旅途的過程中其實它已經就是已經在進入了它的一個旅程當中了比如說我們要去迪士尼玩迪士尼專門列車你一進去就有這個沉浸感了嘛對不對或者是說我們去日本的京都他們的嵐山\n\n06:07.893 --> 06:08.954\n二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就\n\n06:25.822 --> 06:40.343\n觀光列車的一個計畫那原定好像要在明年上路嗎?不曉得相關的啟程是怎麼樣?因為我剛剛委員提到的山南跟海豐澳好像都延了兩三年才上路啦那關於我們支線的觀光列車的一個進度\n\n06:40.974 --> 07:08.985\n市政委員報告這個不太一樣山南海豐是我們的觀光型的列車是那那個剛剛委員提到的支線它也是一種觀光型的列車但是它還兼附我們一般支線的輸運是所以不太一樣是那上線的騎乘我們現在的這個進程因為那是臺鐵臺車臺車在製造我們正在跟它緊密配合我們現在預估是要到115年\n\n07:10.806 --> 07:33.493\n因為最近的新聞看好像我瀏覽一下新聞啦最近的新聞原本是說明年中啦第一輛可能可以交那現在又延到2025要延到20262026的應該是第一季或第二季第一季第二季那我們首輛投入的一個列車你會選擇在哪一條支線會先來營業現在還沒有訂還沒有訂喔\n\n07:35.033 --> 08:03.055\n因為其實我們所有的支線應該是以平溪線的一個運量來最高應該是最高的啦那在疫情前搭乘人士應該都是破百萬的都是其他支線好幾倍那我在這邊也拜託是不是我們當然時間就拜託台車台車那邊儘快那我也希望說第一輛列車可以讓我們來投入到我們的平溪線營運一部分是它的一個效益會最大\n\n08:03.635 --> 08:28.424\n最大因為搭乘的人是會是最多的他也是最有指標性的那一部分也是希望說我們這個指標性的出來之後我們國人對我們臺鐵的一個社會形象也都有正面的幫助好不好那可能後續再麻煩杜董事長請同仁來辦公室說明一下我們可能剛剛提到兩個部分一個是北北基桃的這個你說四列改八列的一個\n\n08:29.264 --> 08:36.493\n運燃提升的部分那另外一個就是這個觀光支線列車的一個相關的一個進程跟進度以及比較細部的規劃好不好謝謝部長謝謝董事長謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.093,"end":2.936,"text":"交通部陳部長、杜董事長"},{"start":13.835,"end":24.498,"text":"部長好、董事長好其實以我們交通部管的幾個國內的運輸業高鐵、臺鐵還有客運這應該三大宗這幾年其實它的運量高鐵其實是穩定的在爬升對不對臺鐵雖然我們的報告比去年還好但是其實"},{"start":37.842,"end":38.963,"text":"二、邀請交通部鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱及文化部主席"},{"start":59.997,"end":61.782,"text":"部長這三個這麼大的一個國內客運的一個運輸體我醞釀這樣子的變化那對你有怎樣的啟示?"},{"start":68.994,"end":97.512,"text":"其實我覺得民眾在使用這個運輸的運具的過程當中大家的習慣是在改變似乎大家對於軌道的這個運輸是比較有信心或者是比較喜歡搭乘尤其這幾年我們的高鐵的這個服務的運量一直在提升當中那我自己搭高鐵長期在搭我看到的是幾乎班班客滿那非常多的人那確實我們也感受到說因為疫情的過程當中有一些民眾他的交通運具變成自己買車的也不少"},{"start":98.112,"end":109.881,"text":"那變成他的公路運輸的過程當中他就有可能會放棄公共的客運那變成自己的公路運輸我想提一下跟部長討論就是說其實高鐵是所有的"},{"start":111.087,"end":138.93,"text":"交通這三樣裡面費用最高的那客運其實也是動漲了非常久的時間沒什麼調漲這其實相對來講它是非常低的結果它的運量反而是萎縮的那單價高的高鐵它反而運量是增加的那就代表說價格只是影響到國人使用鐵道軌道運輸大眾運輸的一個其中的一項的考慮的因子而已"},{"start":139.651,"end":142.58,"text":"所以搭乘的速度、品質才是"},{"start":143.812,"end":170.943,"text":"國人要不要選擇搭乘大眾運輸的一個非常大的主要原因就像如果說國道科運你一直動漲假設當然你最近有說可能會調整你一直動漲你不讓他提升你讓他嫖嫁圍在那邊他的服務品質沒辦法提升的時候跟我們可能要推廣大眾運輸的一個方向反而是背道而馳的我們雖然說我們可能是想要保障一些弱勢等等的但是其實有時候弱勢這個東西"},{"start":172.484,"end":199.215,"text":"並不單單是我們交通部的責任他應該是被納到社會福利的一環應該是衛福部或是地方政府的社會局、社會處他才是主要去做一些補助的一個單位我們應該除了一些比較弱勢的民眾要考慮之外我們應該要去考慮所有有可能是我們大眾運輸工具使用者的客群來怎麼樣滿足他提升他們搭乘的誘因所以說"},{"start":200.015,"end":209.879,"text":"我要討論的其實是臺鐵的一個票價說真的我個人其實在這邊也一再的重申我的立場我真的不反對我們臺鐵去提升票價我在乎的是臺鐵能夠在調升票價的同時能夠提升給我們旅客"},{"start":217.762,"end":238.971,"text":"提升不管是我們準點率、班次的服務效能或是搭乘的舒適度我覺得這才是絕大多數搭乘大眾運輸的民眾最關心的一個課題今天不曉得針對班次的載客量因為我上次有在這邊說過我有一次要來開會的時候"},{"start":240.191,"end":240.672,"text":"臺鐵有沒有再提升運能的計畫?"},{"start":256.135,"end":278.815,"text":"剛剛委員報告有因為我們現在還在持續投入新車新車都是大編組的所以運能是還可以再提升所以目前有一些可能還是四列的編組然後未來可能會投入八輛的編組那最近一起可能會再有這樣子的編組的一個改正的時機點會大概在哪邊"},{"start":279.736,"end":295.938,"text":"改正的時機點應該是在明年年中的時候明年年中因為我們現在E500進來只是初期而已是我們大概正常上限運轉大概要到明年年中跟下半年就會比較正常可以正常的輪替"},{"start":296.499,"end":321.038,"text":"好那如果說以明年底跟今年底來做比較的話那我們這個就講都會區啊都會區可能北北基桃這樣子的一個乘風見風時刻的我們的載客的量那可以提升多少大概10%左右可以再提升10%的運能好那就拜託我們臺鐵準準時啦因為我們常常在交車的時候常常不一定是你們的問題啦常常都晚"},{"start":324.16,"end":336.409,"text":"另外跟兩位討論一下就是說我們鼓勵國人國旅但是討論國旅的時候我們也鼓勵我們的國人要多多使用我們的大眾運輸包括我們的鐵道"},{"start":339.588,"end":366.673,"text":"我們的鐵道在過去可能大家只是把它當作一個運輸工具的一個部分而已那其實在很多知名的景點、國外一些好的一個地方其實在旅途的過程中其實它已經就是已經在進入了它的一個旅程當中了比如說我們要去迪士尼玩迪士尼專門列車你一進去就有這個沉浸感了嘛對不對或者是說我們去日本的京都他們的嵐山"},{"start":367.893,"end":368.954,"text":"二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就"},{"start":385.822,"end":400.343,"text":"觀光列車的一個計畫那原定好像要在明年上路嗎?不曉得相關的啟程是怎麼樣?因為我剛剛委員提到的山南跟海豐澳好像都延了兩三年才上路啦那關於我們支線的觀光列車的一個進度"},{"start":400.974,"end":428.985,"text":"市政委員報告這個不太一樣山南海豐是我們的觀光型的列車是那那個剛剛委員提到的支線它也是一種觀光型的列車但是它還兼附我們一般支線的輸運是所以不太一樣是那上線的騎乘我們現在的這個進程因為那是臺鐵臺車臺車在製造我們正在跟它緊密配合我們現在預估是要到115年"},{"start":430.806,"end":453.493,"text":"因為最近的新聞看好像我瀏覽一下新聞啦最近的新聞原本是說明年中啦第一輛可能可以交那現在又延到2025要延到20262026的應該是第一季或第二季第一季第二季那我們首輛投入的一個列車你會選擇在哪一條支線會先來營業現在還沒有訂還沒有訂喔"},{"start":455.033,"end":483.055,"text":"因為其實我們所有的支線應該是以平溪線的一個運量來最高應該是最高的啦那在疫情前搭乘人士應該都是破百萬的都是其他支線好幾倍那我在這邊也拜託是不是我們當然時間就拜託台車台車那邊儘快那我也希望說第一輛列車可以讓我們來投入到我們的平溪線營運一部分是它的一個效益會最大"},{"start":483.635,"end":508.424,"text":"最大因為搭乘的人是會是最多的他也是最有指標性的那一部分也是希望說我們這個指標性的出來之後我們國人對我們臺鐵的一個社會形象也都有正面的幫助好不好那可能後續再麻煩杜董事長請同仁來辦公室說明一下我們可能剛剛提到兩個部分一個是北北基桃的這個你說四列改八列的一個"},{"start":509.264,"end":516.493,"text":"運燃提升的部分那另外一個就是這個觀光支線列車的一個相關的一個進程跟進度以及比較細部的規劃好不好謝謝部長謝謝董事長謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":685,"blocks":[["廖委員先翔：（11時33分）謝謝召委。邀請陳部長跟杜董事長。"],["主席：請交通部陳部長、杜董事長。"],["廖委員先翔：部長好、董事長好。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["廖委員先翔：其實以交通部管的幾個國內運輸業來說，高鐵、臺鐵還有客運應該是這三大宗啦！就這幾年的運量，高鐵其實是在穩定地爬升嘛！對不對？至於臺鐵，雖然報告顯示比去年還好，今年有可能會創新高啦！但是跟疫情前的高峰比起來，其實並沒有顯著的成長，跟高鐵的成長量比起來的話是這樣的。國道客運反而是不好，這幾天還有新聞嘛！就是轉運站都不租了，以縮小營業面積因應運量萎縮。部長，三個這麼大的國內客運運輸體在運量上有這樣的變化，對你有怎麼樣的啟示？"],["陳部長世凱：其實我覺得在民眾使用運輸運具的過程當中，大家的習慣在改變，似乎對於軌道運輸比較有信心，或者是比較喜歡搭乘，尤其這幾年高鐵的服務運量一直在提升當中，我自己長期在搭高鐵，看到的是幾乎班班客滿、有非常多人。我們確實也感受到，在疫情的過程中，有些民眾交通運具變成自己買車的也不少，導致在公路運輸的過程有可能放棄公共的客運，變成自己的公路運輸。"],["廖委員先翔：是，我想跟部長討論，其實高鐵是這三樣交通工具裡面費用最高的。客運其實凍漲了非常久的時間、沒什麼調漲。"],["陳部長世凱：這次有讓它漲。"],["廖委員先翔：相對以來仍是非常低的，結果它的運量是萎縮的；單價高的高鐵，反而運量是增加的，那就代表價格只是影響國人使用軌道運輸、大眾運輸的其中一項考慮因子而已。"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["廖委員先翔：搭乘的速度、品質才是國人要不要選擇搭乘大眾運輸非常大的主要原因。如果國道客運一直凍漲，當然你最近有說可能會調整，如果一直凍漲、不讓它提升、票價維持在那邊，服務品質沒辦法提升，跟交通部要推廣大眾運輸的方向反而是背道而馳的。雖然交通部可能是想要保障弱勢等等，但弱勢其實不單單是交通部的責任，應該也要被納入社會福利的一環，衛福部或地方政府社會局、社會處才是主要補助的單位。對於交通部來說，除了比較弱勢的民眾要考慮之外，應該考慮所有可能是大眾運輸工具使用者的客群，怎麼滿足他們，提升他們搭乘的誘因。","我要討論的其實是臺鐵的票價啦！說真的，我個人在這邊也一再重申我的立場。我真的不反對臺鐵提升票價，我在乎的是臺鐵在調升票價的同時也能夠為旅客提升，不管是準點率、班次的服務效能或搭乘的舒適度，我覺得這才是絕大多數搭乘大眾運輸民眾最關心的課題啦！","針對班次載客量的問題，我上次在這邊說過，有一次我要來開會的時候上不了火車啊！我被擠在門外，差點遲到啊！對於北臺灣已經這麼高負荷的搭乘量，臺鐵有沒有再提升運能的計畫？"],["陳部長世凱：請董事長。"],["杜董事長微：跟委員報告，有，我們現在還在持續投入新車，而這些新車都是大編組的，所以運能還可以再提升。"],["廖委員先翔：所以目前可能有一些還是四輛編組？"],["杜董事長微：對。"],["廖委員先翔：未來可能會投入八輛編組？"],["杜董事長微：對，可以。"],["廖委員先翔：那最近一期可能會再有這樣編組的改制時機點大概在哪邊？"],["杜董事長微：改制的時間點應該是在明年年中。"],["廖委員先翔：明年年中？"],["杜董事長微：因為現在E500進來只是初期而已，正常來說，上線運轉後，大概到明年年中跟下半年就比較可以正常地輪替。"],["廖委員先翔：好。如果是明年底跟今年底來做比較的話，就講都會區，例如北北基桃，在搭乘尖峰時刻的載客量可以提升多少？"],["杜董事長微：大概10%左右。"],["廖委員先翔：可以再提升10%的運能？"],["杜董事長微：明年、明年。"],["廖委員先翔：好，那就拜託臺鐵準時啦！因為臺鐵交車的時候常常都晚了，雖然不一定是你們的問題啦！","另外要跟兩位討論一下的就是我們鼓勵國人國旅，在討論鼓勵國旅的時候，也鼓勵國人多多使用大眾運輸，包括鐵道嘛！過去對於鐵道，大家可能只把它當作運輸工具的一部分而已，其實在很多國外知名景點、好玩的地方，旅途過程就已經是進入旅程當中了。比如說要去迪士尼玩，迪士尼的專門列車一進去就有沉浸感了嘛！對不對？或者去日本的京都、他們的嵐山，大家還特地去搭當地的嵐山小火車，它反而成為重要的觀光因子了，不是運輸而已，運輸反而在觀光行程裡面。而我知道臺鐵好像有針對觀光支線的觀光列車計畫，好像原定明年上路嘛！不曉得相關期程是怎麼樣。因為剛剛委員提到的山嵐號跟海風號好像都延了兩、三年才上路啦！請問支線觀光列車的進度如何？"],["杜董事長微：跟委員報告，這個不太一樣。山嵐號、海風號是觀光局的列車啦！剛剛委員提到的支線也是一種觀光型態列車，但是還肩負一般支線的輸運，所以不太一樣。"],["廖委員先翔：是。"],["杜董事長微：至於上線期程，以現在的進程，因為那是台車公司在製造，我們正在跟他們緊密配合，現在預估是要到115年。"],["廖委員先翔：喔！115年？我瀏覽了新聞，最近的新聞是說明年中第一輛可能可以交車，那現在又要從2025年要延到2026年？"],["杜董事長微：應該是2026年的第一季或第二季。"],["廖委員先翔：第一季或第二季？首輛投入的列車會選擇先在哪一條支線營運？"],["杜董事長微：現在還沒有決定。"],["廖委員先翔：還沒有定喔？"],["杜董事長微：對。"],["廖委員先翔：好啦！其實在所有支線中，平溪線的運量應該是最高的啦！在疫情前，搭乘人次應該都是破百萬的，是其他支線的好幾倍，那我在這邊也要拜託臺鐵，當然時間上就拜託台車那邊儘快，我也希望第一輛列車可以投入我們的平溪線營運，一部分是基於效益會最大，因為搭乘人次會是最多的，也是最有指標性的；另一部分也是希望指標性列車推出之後，對臺鐵的社會形象也有正面的幫助。後續再麻煩杜董事長請同仁來本席辦公室說明一下剛剛我提到的兩個部分，一個是關於北北基桃，您剛剛提到四列改為八列、運能提升的部分；另外一個就是觀光支線列車的相關進程、進度以及比較細部的規劃，好不好？謝謝部長、謝謝董事長。"],["杜董事長微：好。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝廖委員。","接下來有請邱若華委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":288,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-7","speakers":["魯明哲","李昆澤","林國成","許智傑","林沛祥","何欣純","陳素月","林俊憲","徐富癸","蔡其昌","廖先翔","邱若華","陳雪生","郭國文","王育敏","陳亭妃","陳菁徽","徐巧芯","黃國昌","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林月琴","林倩綺","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","陳培瑜","劉建國","游顥","黃健豪"],"page_start":197,"meetingDate":["2024-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1139001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長杜微及文化部就「臺鐵如何精進\n服務品質、落實轉型治理、加速資產活化、強化文資保存及提升鐵道美學與功能」進行專題報\n告，並備質詢；二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就「我國軌道建設執行概況」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢；三、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男、數位發展部資通安全署署長及國防部就「國防部財產申報\n作業誤失之問題檢討、應處作為、風險管控及後續強化資安保護」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139001_00004"}}}