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\"start\": 567.125, \"end\": 567.466, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 567.466, \"end\": 567.546, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 567.546, \"end\": 567.566, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,289 --> 00:00:04,192\n因為聯合利劍B剛剛舉行完畢馬上中共又在兩個地方實施實彈射擊\n\n2\n00:00:28,479 --> 00:00:54,169\n感覺在台海之間那個情勢有升高的情形我記得你剛剛當國防部長的時候我有問你我說邱國正部長前國防部長說他其實都睡不好覺那你說你的睡眠品質很好我想請問一下最近連續的這樣的一個情勢你的睡眠品質仍然很好嗎\n\n3\n00:00:55,903 --> 00:01:17,484\n我記得我沒有說我的睡眠品質好或不好我說我的睡眠品質跟平常是一樣大概就是這樣子那我想你站在這個指定台上面問我睡眠的品質這件事情我並不知道如何回答我承認我也不知道如何回答所以你沒有辦法再回答是睡眠品質一樣囉\n\n4\n00:01:19,830 --> 00:01:29,302\n其實非常簡單我就是想問齊秋部長要傳達的就是在這樣的局勢上尤其國防部長他不可能睡得好的\n\n5\n00:01:31,019 --> 00:01:51,028\n當然可能部長想要四兩撥千金如同剛才張其凱委員講的就是現在很多的情勢使得大家感覺到比較緊張那另外我想請教當然因為你是律師出身啊你很會去閃躲這樣的問題其實當時你說睡眠痞子一樣其實很多外界都會覺得說\n\n6\n00:01:52,429 --> 00:02:16,427\n你真的睡眠品質一樣嗎?你真的覺得這一切都如常嗎?」我認為敵情當然是值得我們來警惕的現在中國的軍事武力不斷的擴張不斷的在進行這些相關的操演或演習有沒有對國防部長造成壓力?我想我們對於任何一個工作都要戰戰兢兢\n\n7\n00:02:18,154 --> 00:02:44,846\n感覺你現在比你剛剛出任國防部長的時候感覺沉重很多啦那另外就是最近我們的駐美代表余大雷他接受美國媒體訪問的時候他說台灣已經準備好打仗了傳回台灣之後呢引起了軒然大波所以我想請問一下部長您同意余大雷的說法嗎\n\n8\n00:02:46,158 --> 00:02:55,171\n我認為余大使所說的大概應該主要是重點在強調我們台灣應該要有足夠的自我防衛的能力跟決心\n\n9\n00:02:56,707 --> 00:03:16,689\n這一點是比較重要我認為他的講話的重點因為那天那個林佳龍部長有幫他在還原他說他是說如果遭到侵略的話台灣準備好打仗了但是無論如何作為一個駐美大使很多人講說台灣打仗的時候你駐美大使立刻飛回來跟我們一起打仗嗎所以您覺得\n\n10\n00:03:18,226 --> 00:03:46,215\n中美大使對於在美國媒體訪問的時候直接這樣的一個談話適合嗎?對於我們的國軍弟兄因為他們才是站在第一線的啊您覺得適合嗎?我還是剛剛的回答答案就是我認為余大使的真正的用意就是說我們台灣應該要持續的加強我們自我防衛的能力跟決心他只要的目的是在說明如果余大使是用您的話術的話\n\n11\n00:03:47,856 --> 00:04:07,075\n我覺得會比較好所以我必須講我們尤其駐美大使、駐外大使還是需要謹言慎行啊尤其我覺得國防部因為你現在肩負的是很多我們在第一線的我們的國軍弟兄我剛才為什麼請我們的鄭豐市今天是專門委員\n\n12\n00:04:10,114 --> 00:04:29,980\n部長請問一下這一次我們的一些情報人員的個資包含你自己在內的高階將官情報人員的個資外洩你們承認疏失請問一下有人下台嗎有人被懲處嗎我們會來檢討並且進行相關的懲處所以還沒有被懲處我們現在由法務部的廉政署來進行這個調查調查之後自然會來進行相關的所以有人會被懲處對不對\n\n13\n00:04:40,618 --> 00:05:00,507\n就這個疏失我想應該要檢討然後來進行究責當然要因為老師說我今天看到是我們的陳寶倫專門委員來我很嚇一跳但他們說主任在交通委員會因為交通委員會有排同樣的一場是我知道但是我覺得這件事情啊姿勢體大\n\n14\n00:05:02,625 --> 00:05:22,499\n因為我覺得我們的國防部雖然承認疏失但是第一時間說我們收回了我們會強化作業程序可是問題是今天有這麼多不應該被曝露的個資然後只是因為我們的作業疏失我們就會給就是各單位\n\n15\n00:05:23,522 --> 00:05:41,360\n所以外界會認為說這樣還打仗嗎還有什麼任性在那邊開這麼多什麼全民防衛任性然後花這麼多錢要訓練還不知道有多少錢給綠油我直接說然後你們搞這樣的飛機有任性可言嗎部長\n\n16\n00:05:44,375 --> 00:05:59,880\n發生在國防部欸當然這個還是要跟委員報告的因為這個還是循內部軍網的公務系統以電子發文發送給各承辦單位各承辦單位當然就公務上面看到這個相關的附件確實我們承認說沒有將這個機\n\n17\n00:06:02,341 --> 00:06:10,966\n一些機敏的人員做隔離這是一個疏失但是當然他也應該不宜將他外洩所以當然不能外洩這種問題說實在\n\n18\n00:06:14,653 --> 00:06:43,308\n我知道大家都很辛苦但是這個問題一定要嚴懲尤其發生在國防部另外還有一些補破網的這個措施比如說因為有些情報人員是用化名對不對然後你們現在把人家的那個真實身份通通曝光因為你們尤其在軍中大概知道誰是誰所以另外一個就是單位會不會做一些輪調你們除了去檢討、去調查、去懲處之外接下來你還有什麼補破網的措施嗎\n\n19\n00:06:44,888 --> 00:07:07,336\n就我了解這些相關的這些應該要做財產申報的都是一定層級以上的人那他們都是用真實姓名來對外進行作業沒有來進行化名這樣子所以也不是第一線的工作人員所以那當然我們也要承認就是說我們有疏失那我們也做了風險的控管將這些公文進行銷毀進行這個從電腦上面全部的刪除那這個部分\n\n20\n00:07:14,393 --> 00:07:36,148\n還是要檢討相關的疏失來進行?好,我用一點點時間這個是我們就跟數發部所了解的你可以看到這個資料這個是最近這6年相關的資安事件這裡面有政府單位疏失的太多是由我們政府單位自己把資料外洩剛剛我講就是說國防部\n\n21\n00:07:36,949 --> 00:08:00,125\n我覺得是不能夠被容許的過去包含我們自己個人的就是一般民眾的護證資料都可以外泄那當然有些是被駭客攻擊你可以看到這6年來我們大大小小從中央到地方公營事業包含我們關鍵的基礎設施我們今天不是在討論韌性嗎我們這些關鍵基礎設施要怎麼樣去更要強化韌性\n\n22\n00:08:07,129 --> 00:08:35,767\n我們大大小小的這些資安事件高達5400多件高達5400多件其實這個問題是蠻嚴重的除了來自駭客的攻擊之外還有就是我們自己本身作業單位的疏失但是過去不管是很多政府單位有資料外洩老實說啦我們都沒有看到一個真正的懲處\n\n23\n00:08:37,338 --> 00:09:01,234\n所以就會一而再再而三每次發生的時候就說我們會立刻改進啊然後我們這些立刻收回啊什麼理由一大堆所以我覺得以這件事來講的話我覺得這次我就要看國防部要怎麼做處理剛才部長有回答說在檢討之後調查之後該懲處的就懲處好不好\n\n24\n00:09:02,145 --> 00:09:27,566\n是我想我們今天這個事件是人案的問題那資安的問題當然就涉及到說中國不斷對我們進行網路的害侵就這個部分我們當然要加強我們的資安的防護能力對沒有錯我這邊講的資安當然來自於外來的供給還有來自於我們自己本身內部作業疏失自己就把資料給外洩出去了這一點所以很重要好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n289\t4192\t因為聯合利劍B剛剛舉行完畢馬上中共又在兩個地方實施實彈射擊\n28479\t54169\t感覺在台海之間那個情勢有升高的情形我記得你剛剛當國防部長的時候我有問你我說邱國正部長前國防部長說他其實都睡不好覺那你說你的睡眠品質很好我想請問一下最近連續的這樣的一個情勢你的睡眠品質仍然很好嗎\n55903\t77484\t我記得我沒有說我的睡眠品質好或不好我說我的睡眠品質跟平常是一樣大概就是這樣子那我想你站在這個指定台上面問我睡眠的品質這件事情我並不知道如何回答我承認我也不知道如何回答所以你沒有辦法再回答是睡眠品質一樣囉\n79830\t89302\t其實非常簡單我就是想問齊秋部長要傳達的就是在這樣的局勢上尤其國防部長他不可能睡得好的\n91019\t111028\t當然可能部長想要四兩撥千金如同剛才張其凱委員講的就是現在很多的情勢使得大家感覺到比較緊張那另外我想請教當然因為你是律師出身啊你很會去閃躲這樣的問題其實當時你說睡眠痞子一樣其實很多外界都會覺得說\n112429\t136427\t你真的睡眠品質一樣嗎?你真的覺得這一切都如常嗎?」我認為敵情當然是值得我們來警惕的現在中國的軍事武力不斷的擴張不斷的在進行這些相關的操演或演習有沒有對國防部長造成壓力?我想我們對於任何一個工作都要戰戰兢兢\n138154\t164846\t感覺你現在比你剛剛出任國防部長的時候感覺沉重很多啦那另外就是最近我們的駐美代表余大雷他接受美國媒體訪問的時候他說台灣已經準備好打仗了傳回台灣之後呢引起了軒然大波所以我想請問一下部長您同意余大雷的說法嗎\n166158\t175171\t我認為余大使所說的大概應該主要是重點在強調我們台灣應該要有足夠的自我防衛的能力跟決心\n176707\t196689\t這一點是比較重要我認為他的講話的重點因為那天那個林佳龍部長有幫他在還原他說他是說如果遭到侵略的話台灣準備好打仗了但是無論如何作為一個駐美大使很多人講說台灣打仗的時候你駐美大使立刻飛回來跟我們一起打仗嗎所以您覺得\n198226\t226215\t中美大使對於在美國媒體訪問的時候直接這樣的一個談話適合嗎?對於我們的國軍弟兄因為他們才是站在第一線的啊您覺得適合嗎?我還是剛剛的回答答案就是我認為余大使的真正的用意就是說我們台灣應該要持續的加強我們自我防衛的能力跟決心他只要的目的是在說明如果余大使是用您的話術的話\n227856\t247075\t我覺得會比較好所以我必須講我們尤其駐美大使、駐外大使還是需要謹言慎行啊尤其我覺得國防部因為你現在肩負的是很多我們在第一線的我們的國軍弟兄我剛才為什麼請我們的鄭豐市今天是專門委員\n250114\t269980\t部長請問一下這一次我們的一些情報人員的個資包含你自己在內的高階將官情報人員的個資外洩你們承認疏失請問一下有人下台嗎有人被懲處嗎我們會來檢討並且進行相關的懲處所以還沒有被懲處我們現在由法務部的廉政署來進行這個調查調查之後自然會來進行相關的所以有人會被懲處對不對\n280618\t300507\t就這個疏失我想應該要檢討然後來進行究責當然要因為老師說我今天看到是我們的陳寶倫專門委員來我很嚇一跳但他們說主任在交通委員會因為交通委員會有排同樣的一場是我知道但是我覺得這件事情啊姿勢體大\n302625\t322499\t因為我覺得我們的國防部雖然承認疏失但是第一時間說我們收回了我們會強化作業程序可是問題是今天有這麼多不應該被曝露的個資然後只是因為我們的作業疏失我們就會給就是各單位\n323522\t341360\t所以外界會認為說這樣還打仗嗎還有什麼任性在那邊開這麼多什麼全民防衛任性然後花這麼多錢要訓練還不知道有多少錢給綠油我直接說然後你們搞這樣的飛機有任性可言嗎部長\n344375\t359880\t發生在國防部欸當然這個還是要跟委員報告的因為這個還是循內部軍網的公務系統以電子發文發送給各承辦單位各承辦單位當然就公務上面看到這個相關的附件確實我們承認說沒有將這個機\n362341\t370966\t一些機敏的人員做隔離這是一個疏失但是當然他也應該不宜將他外洩所以當然不能外洩這種問題說實在\n374653\t403308\t我知道大家都很辛苦但是這個問題一定要嚴懲尤其發生在國防部另外還有一些補破網的這個措施比如說因為有些情報人員是用化名對不對然後你們現在把人家的那個真實身份通通曝光因為你們尤其在軍中大概知道誰是誰所以另外一個就是單位會不會做一些輪調你們除了去檢討、去調查、去懲處之外接下來你還有什麼補破網的措施嗎\n404888\t427336\t就我了解這些相關的這些應該要做財產申報的都是一定層級以上的人那他們都是用真實姓名來對外進行作業沒有來進行化名這樣子所以也不是第一線的工作人員所以那當然我們也要承認就是說我們有疏失那我們也做了風險的控管將這些公文進行銷毀進行這個從電腦上面全部的刪除那這個部分\n434393\t456148\t還是要檢討相關的疏失來進行?好,我用一點點時間這個是我們就跟數發部所了解的你可以看到這個資料這個是最近這6年相關的資安事件這裡面有政府單位疏失的太多是由我們政府單位自己把資料外洩剛剛我講就是說國防部\n456949\t480125\t我覺得是不能夠被容許的過去包含我們自己個人的就是一般民眾的護證資料都可以外泄那當然有些是被駭客攻擊你可以看到這6年來我們大大小小從中央到地方公營事業包含我們關鍵的基礎設施我們今天不是在討論韌性嗎我們這些關鍵基礎設施要怎麼樣去更要強化韌性\n487129\t515767\t我們大大小小的這些資安事件高達5400多件高達5400多件其實這個問題是蠻嚴重的除了來自駭客的攻擊之外還有就是我們自己本身作業單位的疏失但是過去不管是很多政府單位有資料外洩老實說啦我們都沒有看到一個真正的懲處\n517338\t541234\t所以就會一而再再而三每次發生的時候就說我們會立刻改進啊然後我們這些立刻收回啊什麼理由一大堆所以我覺得以這件事來講的話我覺得這次我就要看國防部要怎麼做處理剛才部長有回答說在檢討之後調查之後該懲處的就懲處好不好\n542145\t567566\t是 我想我們今天這個事件是人案的問題那資安的問題當然就涉及到說中國不斷對我們進行網路的害侵就這個部分我們當然要加強我們的資安的防護能力對 沒有錯 我這邊講的資安當然來自於外來的供給還有來自於我們自己本身內部作業疏失自己就把資料給外洩出去了這一點所以很重要 好 謝謝好 謝謝\n","txt":"因為聯合利劍B剛剛舉行完畢馬上中共又在兩個地方實施實彈射擊\n感覺在台海之間那個情勢有升高的情形我記得你剛剛當國防部長的時候我有問你我說邱國正部長前國防部長說他其實都睡不好覺那你說你的睡眠品質很好我想請問一下最近連續的這樣的一個情勢你的睡眠品質仍然很好嗎\n我記得我沒有說我的睡眠品質好或不好我說我的睡眠品質跟平常是一樣大概就是這樣子那我想你站在這個指定台上面問我睡眠的品質這件事情我並不知道如何回答我承認我也不知道如何回答所以你沒有辦法再回答是睡眠品質一樣囉\n其實非常簡單我就是想問齊秋部長要傳達的就是在這樣的局勢上尤其國防部長他不可能睡得好的\n當然可能部長想要四兩撥千金如同剛才張其凱委員講的就是現在很多的情勢使得大家感覺到比較緊張那另外我想請教當然因為你是律師出身啊你很會去閃躲這樣的問題其實當時你說睡眠痞子一樣其實很多外界都會覺得說\n你真的睡眠品質一樣嗎?你真的覺得這一切都如常嗎?」我認為敵情當然是值得我們來警惕的現在中國的軍事武力不斷的擴張不斷的在進行這些相關的操演或演習有沒有對國防部長造成壓力?我想我們對於任何一個工作都要戰戰兢兢\n感覺你現在比你剛剛出任國防部長的時候感覺沉重很多啦那另外就是最近我們的駐美代表余大雷他接受美國媒體訪問的時候他說台灣已經準備好打仗了傳回台灣之後呢引起了軒然大波所以我想請問一下部長您同意余大雷的說法嗎\n我認為余大使所說的大概應該主要是重點在強調我們台灣應該要有足夠的自我防衛的能力跟決心\n這一點是比較重要我認為他的講話的重點因為那天那個林佳龍部長有幫他在還原他說他是說如果遭到侵略的話台灣準備好打仗了但是無論如何作為一個駐美大使很多人講說台灣打仗的時候你駐美大使立刻飛回來跟我們一起打仗嗎所以您覺得\n中美大使對於在美國媒體訪問的時候直接這樣的一個談話適合嗎?對於我們的國軍弟兄因為他們才是站在第一線的啊您覺得適合嗎?我還是剛剛的回答答案就是我認為余大使的真正的用意就是說我們台灣應該要持續的加強我們自我防衛的能力跟決心他只要的目的是在說明如果余大使是用您的話術的話\n我覺得會比較好所以我必須講我們尤其駐美大使、駐外大使還是需要謹言慎行啊尤其我覺得國防部因為你現在肩負的是很多我們在第一線的我們的國軍弟兄我剛才為什麼請我們的鄭豐市今天是專門委員\n部長請問一下這一次我們的一些情報人員的個資包含你自己在內的高階將官情報人員的個資外洩你們承認疏失請問一下有人下台嗎有人被懲處嗎我們會來檢討並且進行相關的懲處所以還沒有被懲處我們現在由法務部的廉政署來進行這個調查調查之後自然會來進行相關的所以有人會被懲處對不對\n就這個疏失我想應該要檢討然後來進行究責當然要因為老師說我今天看到是我們的陳寶倫專門委員來我很嚇一跳但他們說主任在交通委員會因為交通委員會有排同樣的一場是我知道但是我覺得這件事情啊姿勢體大\n因為我覺得我們的國防部雖然承認疏失但是第一時間說我們收回了我們會強化作業程序可是問題是今天有這麼多不應該被曝露的個資然後只是因為我們的作業疏失我們就會給就是各單位\n所以外界會認為說這樣還打仗嗎還有什麼任性在那邊開這麼多什麼全民防衛任性然後花這麼多錢要訓練還不知道有多少錢給綠油我直接說然後你們搞這樣的飛機有任性可言嗎部長\n發生在國防部欸當然這個還是要跟委員報告的因為這個還是循內部軍網的公務系統以電子發文發送給各承辦單位各承辦單位當然就公務上面看到這個相關的附件確實我們承認說沒有將這個機\n一些機敏的人員做隔離這是一個疏失但是當然他也應該不宜將他外洩所以當然不能外洩這種問題說實在\n我知道大家都很辛苦但是這個問題一定要嚴懲尤其發生在國防部另外還有一些補破網的這個措施比如說因為有些情報人員是用化名對不對然後你們現在把人家的那個真實身份通通曝光因為你們尤其在軍中大概知道誰是誰所以另外一個就是單位會不會做一些輪調你們除了去檢討、去調查、去懲處之外接下來你還有什麼補破網的措施嗎\n就我了解這些相關的這些應該要做財產申報的都是一定層級以上的人那他們都是用真實姓名來對外進行作業沒有來進行化名這樣子所以也不是第一線的工作人員所以那當然我們也要承認就是說我們有疏失那我們也做了風險的控管將這些公文進行銷毀進行這個從電腦上面全部的刪除那這個部分\n還是要檢討相關的疏失來進行?好,我用一點點時間這個是我們就跟數發部所了解的你可以看到這個資料這個是最近這6年相關的資安事件這裡面有政府單位疏失的太多是由我們政府單位自己把資料外洩剛剛我講就是說國防部\n我覺得是不能夠被容許的過去包含我們自己個人的就是一般民眾的護證資料都可以外泄那當然有些是被駭客攻擊你可以看到這6年來我們大大小小從中央到地方公營事業包含我們關鍵的基礎設施我們今天不是在討論韌性嗎我們這些關鍵基礎設施要怎麼樣去更要強化韌性\n我們大大小小的這些資安事件高達5400多件高達5400多件其實這個問題是蠻嚴重的除了來自駭客的攻擊之外還有就是我們自己本身作業單位的疏失但是過去不管是很多政府單位有資料外洩老實說啦我們都沒有看到一個真正的懲處\n所以就會一而再再而三每次發生的時候就說我們會立刻改進啊然後我們這些立刻收回啊什麼理由一大堆所以我覺得以這件事來講的話我覺得這次我就要看國防部要怎麼做處理剛才部長有回答說在檢討之後調查之後該懲處的就懲處好不好\n是 我想我們今天這個事件是人案的問題那資安的問題當然就涉及到說中國不斷對我們進行網路的害侵就這個部分我們當然要加強我們的資安的防護能力對 沒有錯 我這邊講的資安當然來自於外來的供給還有來自於我們自己本身內部作業疏失自己就把資料給外洩出去了這一點所以很重要 好 謝謝好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.289 --> 00:04.192\n因為聯合利劍B剛剛舉行完畢馬上中共又在兩個地方實施實彈射擊\n\n00:28.479 --> 00:54.169\n感覺在台海之間那個情勢有升高的情形我記得你剛剛當國防部長的時候我有問你我說邱國正部長前國防部長說他其實都睡不好覺那你說你的睡眠品質很好我想請問一下最近連續的這樣的一個情勢你的睡眠品質仍然很好嗎\n\n00:55.903 --> 01:17.484\n我記得我沒有說我的睡眠品質好或不好我說我的睡眠品質跟平常是一樣大概就是這樣子那我想你站在這個指定台上面問我睡眠的品質這件事情我並不知道如何回答我承認我也不知道如何回答所以你沒有辦法再回答是睡眠品質一樣囉\n\n01:19.830 --> 01:29.302\n其實非常簡單我就是想問齊秋部長要傳達的就是在這樣的局勢上尤其國防部長他不可能睡得好的\n\n01:31.019 --> 01:51.028\n當然可能部長想要四兩撥千金如同剛才張其凱委員講的就是現在很多的情勢使得大家感覺到比較緊張那另外我想請教當然因為你是律師出身啊你很會去閃躲這樣的問題其實當時你說睡眠痞子一樣其實很多外界都會覺得說\n\n01:52.429 --> 02:16.427\n你真的睡眠品質一樣嗎?你真的覺得這一切都如常嗎?」我認為敵情當然是值得我們來警惕的現在中國的軍事武力不斷的擴張不斷的在進行這些相關的操演或演習有沒有對國防部長造成壓力?我想我們對於任何一個工作都要戰戰兢兢\n\n02:18.154 --> 02:44.846\n感覺你現在比你剛剛出任國防部長的時候感覺沉重很多啦那另外就是最近我們的駐美代表余大雷他接受美國媒體訪問的時候他說台灣已經準備好打仗了傳回台灣之後呢引起了軒然大波所以我想請問一下部長您同意余大雷的說法嗎\n\n02:46.158 --> 02:55.171\n我認為余大使所說的大概應該主要是重點在強調我們台灣應該要有足夠的自我防衛的能力跟決心\n\n02:56.707 --> 03:16.689\n這一點是比較重要我認為他的講話的重點因為那天那個林佳龍部長有幫他在還原他說他是說如果遭到侵略的話台灣準備好打仗了但是無論如何作為一個駐美大使很多人講說台灣打仗的時候你駐美大使立刻飛回來跟我們一起打仗嗎所以您覺得\n\n03:18.226 --> 03:46.215\n中美大使對於在美國媒體訪問的時候直接這樣的一個談話適合嗎?對於我們的國軍弟兄因為他們才是站在第一線的啊您覺得適合嗎?我還是剛剛的回答答案就是我認為余大使的真正的用意就是說我們台灣應該要持續的加強我們自我防衛的能力跟決心他只要的目的是在說明如果余大使是用您的話術的話\n\n03:47.856 --> 04:07.075\n我覺得會比較好所以我必須講我們尤其駐美大使、駐外大使還是需要謹言慎行啊尤其我覺得國防部因為你現在肩負的是很多我們在第一線的我們的國軍弟兄我剛才為什麼請我們的鄭豐市今天是專門委員\n\n04:10.114 --> 04:29.980\n部長請問一下這一次我們的一些情報人員的個資包含你自己在內的高階將官情報人員的個資外洩你們承認疏失請問一下有人下台嗎有人被懲處嗎我們會來檢討並且進行相關的懲處所以還沒有被懲處我們現在由法務部的廉政署來進行這個調查調查之後自然會來進行相關的所以有人會被懲處對不對\n\n04:40.618 --> 05:00.507\n就這個疏失我想應該要檢討然後來進行究責當然要因為老師說我今天看到是我們的陳寶倫專門委員來我很嚇一跳但他們說主任在交通委員會因為交通委員會有排同樣的一場是我知道但是我覺得這件事情啊姿勢體大\n\n05:02.625 --> 05:22.499\n因為我覺得我們的國防部雖然承認疏失但是第一時間說我們收回了我們會強化作業程序可是問題是今天有這麼多不應該被曝露的個資然後只是因為我們的作業疏失我們就會給就是各單位\n\n05:23.522 --> 05:41.360\n所以外界會認為說這樣還打仗嗎還有什麼任性在那邊開這麼多什麼全民防衛任性然後花這麼多錢要訓練還不知道有多少錢給綠油我直接說然後你們搞這樣的飛機有任性可言嗎部長\n\n05:44.375 --> 05:59.880\n發生在國防部欸當然這個還是要跟委員報告的因為這個還是循內部軍網的公務系統以電子發文發送給各承辦單位各承辦單位當然就公務上面看到這個相關的附件確實我們承認說沒有將這個機\n\n06:02.341 --> 06:10.966\n一些機敏的人員做隔離這是一個疏失但是當然他也應該不宜將他外洩所以當然不能外洩這種問題說實在\n\n06:14.653 --> 06:43.308\n我知道大家都很辛苦但是這個問題一定要嚴懲尤其發生在國防部另外還有一些補破網的這個措施比如說因為有些情報人員是用化名對不對然後你們現在把人家的那個真實身份通通曝光因為你們尤其在軍中大概知道誰是誰所以另外一個就是單位會不會做一些輪調你們除了去檢討、去調查、去懲處之外接下來你還有什麼補破網的措施嗎\n\n06:44.888 --> 07:07.336\n就我了解這些相關的這些應該要做財產申報的都是一定層級以上的人那他們都是用真實姓名來對外進行作業沒有來進行化名這樣子所以也不是第一線的工作人員所以那當然我們也要承認就是說我們有疏失那我們也做了風險的控管將這些公文進行銷毀進行這個從電腦上面全部的刪除那這個部分\n\n07:14.393 --> 07:36.148\n還是要檢討相關的疏失來進行?好,我用一點點時間這個是我們就跟數發部所了解的你可以看到這個資料這個是最近這6年相關的資安事件這裡面有政府單位疏失的太多是由我們政府單位自己把資料外洩剛剛我講就是說國防部\n\n07:36.949 --> 08:00.125\n我覺得是不能夠被容許的過去包含我們自己個人的就是一般民眾的護證資料都可以外泄那當然有些是被駭客攻擊你可以看到這6年來我們大大小小從中央到地方公營事業包含我們關鍵的基礎設施我們今天不是在討論韌性嗎我們這些關鍵基礎設施要怎麼樣去更要強化韌性\n\n08:07.129 --> 08:35.767\n我們大大小小的這些資安事件高達5400多件高達5400多件其實這個問題是蠻嚴重的除了來自駭客的攻擊之外還有就是我們自己本身作業單位的疏失但是過去不管是很多政府單位有資料外洩老實說啦我們都沒有看到一個真正的懲處\n\n08:37.338 --> 09:01.234\n所以就會一而再再而三每次發生的時候就說我們會立刻改進啊然後我們這些立刻收回啊什麼理由一大堆所以我覺得以這件事來講的話我覺得這次我就要看國防部要怎麼做處理剛才部長有回答說在檢討之後調查之後該懲處的就懲處好不好\n\n09:02.145 --> 09:27.566\n是我想我們今天這個事件是人案的問題那資安的問題當然就涉及到說中國不斷對我們進行網路的害侵就這個部分我們當然要加強我們的資安的防護能力對沒有錯我這邊講的資安當然來自於外來的供給還有來自於我們自己本身內部作業疏失自己就把資料給外洩出去了這一點所以很重要好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.289,"end":4.192,"text":"因為聯合利劍B剛剛舉行完畢馬上中共又在兩個地方實施實彈射擊"},{"start":28.479,"end":54.169,"text":"感覺在台海之間那個情勢有升高的情形我記得你剛剛當國防部長的時候我有問你我說邱國正部長前國防部長說他其實都睡不好覺那你說你的睡眠品質很好我想請問一下最近連續的這樣的一個情勢你的睡眠品質仍然很好嗎"},{"start":55.903,"end":77.484,"text":"我記得我沒有說我的睡眠品質好或不好我說我的睡眠品質跟平常是一樣大概就是這樣子那我想你站在這個指定台上面問我睡眠的品質這件事情我並不知道如何回答我承認我也不知道如何回答所以你沒有辦法再回答是睡眠品質一樣囉"},{"start":79.83,"end":89.302,"text":"其實非常簡單我就是想問齊秋部長要傳達的就是在這樣的局勢上尤其國防部長他不可能睡得好的"},{"start":91.019,"end":111.028,"text":"當然可能部長想要四兩撥千金如同剛才張其凱委員講的就是現在很多的情勢使得大家感覺到比較緊張那另外我想請教當然因為你是律師出身啊你很會去閃躲這樣的問題其實當時你說睡眠痞子一樣其實很多外界都會覺得說"},{"start":112.429,"end":136.427,"text":"你真的睡眠品質一樣嗎?你真的覺得這一切都如常嗎?」我認為敵情當然是值得我們來警惕的現在中國的軍事武力不斷的擴張不斷的在進行這些相關的操演或演習有沒有對國防部長造成壓力?我想我們對於任何一個工作都要戰戰兢兢"},{"start":138.154,"end":164.846,"text":"感覺你現在比你剛剛出任國防部長的時候感覺沉重很多啦那另外就是最近我們的駐美代表余大雷他接受美國媒體訪問的時候他說台灣已經準備好打仗了傳回台灣之後呢引起了軒然大波所以我想請問一下部長您同意余大雷的說法嗎"},{"start":166.158,"end":175.171,"text":"我認為余大使所說的大概應該主要是重點在強調我們台灣應該要有足夠的自我防衛的能力跟決心"},{"start":176.707,"end":196.689,"text":"這一點是比較重要我認為他的講話的重點因為那天那個林佳龍部長有幫他在還原他說他是說如果遭到侵略的話台灣準備好打仗了但是無論如何作為一個駐美大使很多人講說台灣打仗的時候你駐美大使立刻飛回來跟我們一起打仗嗎所以您覺得"},{"start":198.226,"end":226.215,"text":"中美大使對於在美國媒體訪問的時候直接這樣的一個談話適合嗎?對於我們的國軍弟兄因為他們才是站在第一線的啊您覺得適合嗎?我還是剛剛的回答答案就是我認為余大使的真正的用意就是說我們台灣應該要持續的加強我們自我防衛的能力跟決心他只要的目的是在說明如果余大使是用您的話術的話"},{"start":227.856,"end":247.075,"text":"我覺得會比較好所以我必須講我們尤其駐美大使、駐外大使還是需要謹言慎行啊尤其我覺得國防部因為你現在肩負的是很多我們在第一線的我們的國軍弟兄我剛才為什麼請我們的鄭豐市今天是專門委員"},{"start":250.114,"end":269.98,"text":"部長請問一下這一次我們的一些情報人員的個資包含你自己在內的高階將官情報人員的個資外洩你們承認疏失請問一下有人下台嗎有人被懲處嗎我們會來檢討並且進行相關的懲處所以還沒有被懲處我們現在由法務部的廉政署來進行這個調查調查之後自然會來進行相關的所以有人會被懲處對不對"},{"start":280.618,"end":300.507,"text":"就這個疏失我想應該要檢討然後來進行究責當然要因為老師說我今天看到是我們的陳寶倫專門委員來我很嚇一跳但他們說主任在交通委員會因為交通委員會有排同樣的一場是我知道但是我覺得這件事情啊姿勢體大"},{"start":302.625,"end":322.499,"text":"因為我覺得我們的國防部雖然承認疏失但是第一時間說我們收回了我們會強化作業程序可是問題是今天有這麼多不應該被曝露的個資然後只是因為我們的作業疏失我們就會給就是各單位"},{"start":323.522,"end":341.36,"text":"所以外界會認為說這樣還打仗嗎還有什麼任性在那邊開這麼多什麼全民防衛任性然後花這麼多錢要訓練還不知道有多少錢給綠油我直接說然後你們搞這樣的飛機有任性可言嗎部長"},{"start":344.375,"end":359.88,"text":"發生在國防部欸當然這個還是要跟委員報告的因為這個還是循內部軍網的公務系統以電子發文發送給各承辦單位各承辦單位當然就公務上面看到這個相關的附件確實我們承認說沒有將這個機"},{"start":362.341,"end":370.966,"text":"一些機敏的人員做隔離這是一個疏失但是當然他也應該不宜將他外洩所以當然不能外洩這種問題說實在"},{"start":374.653,"end":403.308,"text":"我知道大家都很辛苦但是這個問題一定要嚴懲尤其發生在國防部另外還有一些補破網的這個措施比如說因為有些情報人員是用化名對不對然後你們現在把人家的那個真實身份通通曝光因為你們尤其在軍中大概知道誰是誰所以另外一個就是單位會不會做一些輪調你們除了去檢討、去調查、去懲處之外接下來你還有什麼補破網的措施嗎"},{"start":404.888,"end":427.336,"text":"就我了解這些相關的這些應該要做財產申報的都是一定層級以上的人那他們都是用真實姓名來對外進行作業沒有來進行化名這樣子所以也不是第一線的工作人員所以那當然我們也要承認就是說我們有疏失那我們也做了風險的控管將這些公文進行銷毀進行這個從電腦上面全部的刪除那這個部分"},{"start":434.393,"end":456.148,"text":"還是要檢討相關的疏失來進行?好,我用一點點時間這個是我們就跟數發部所了解的你可以看到這個資料這個是最近這6年相關的資安事件這裡面有政府單位疏失的太多是由我們政府單位自己把資料外洩剛剛我講就是說國防部"},{"start":456.949,"end":480.125,"text":"我覺得是不能夠被容許的過去包含我們自己個人的就是一般民眾的護證資料都可以外泄那當然有些是被駭客攻擊你可以看到這6年來我們大大小小從中央到地方公營事業包含我們關鍵的基礎設施我們今天不是在討論韌性嗎我們這些關鍵基礎設施要怎麼樣去更要強化韌性"},{"start":487.129,"end":515.767,"text":"我們大大小小的這些資安事件高達5400多件高達5400多件其實這個問題是蠻嚴重的除了來自駭客的攻擊之外還有就是我們自己本身作業單位的疏失但是過去不管是很多政府單位有資料外洩老實說啦我們都沒有看到一個真正的懲處"},{"start":517.338,"end":541.234,"text":"所以就會一而再再而三每次發生的時候就說我們會立刻改進啊然後我們這些立刻收回啊什麼理由一大堆所以我覺得以這件事來講的話我覺得這次我就要看國防部要怎麼做處理剛才部長有回答說在檢討之後調查之後該懲處的就懲處好不好"},{"start":542.145,"end":567.566,"text":"是 我想我們今天這個事件是人案的問題那資安的問題當然就涉及到說中國不斷對我們進行網路的害侵就這個部分我們當然要加強我們的資安的防護能力對 沒有錯 我這邊講的資安當然來自於外來的供給還有來自於我們自己本身內部作業疏失自己就把資料給外洩出去了這一點所以很重要 好 謝謝好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":960,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（12時11分）謝謝主席。我請顧部長，還有政風室的代表。"],["顧部長立雄：王委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長好。聯合利劍B剛剛舉行完畢，中共馬上又在兩個地方實施實彈射擊，感覺台海之間的情勢有升高的情形。我記得你剛剛當國防部長的時候曾問過你，我說前國防部邱部長說他其實都睡不好覺，你說你的睡眠品質很好，我想請問一下，最近連續這樣的一個情勢，你的睡眠品質仍然很好嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我記得我沒有說我的睡眠品質好或不好，我說我的睡眠品質跟平常是一樣，大概就是這樣。"],["王委員鴻薇：現在呢？"],["顧部長立雄：我想你站在這個質詢台上面，問我睡眠品質這件事情，我承認我也不知道如何回答。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你沒有辦法再回答睡眠品質一樣？"],["顧部長立雄：我……"],["王委員鴻薇：其實非常簡單，邱部長要傳達的，就是在這樣的局勢上，尤其國防部長他不可能睡得好的，部長可能想要四兩撥千金，如同剛才張啓楷委員所講的，就是現在很多的情勢，使得大家感覺到比較緊張。另外，因為你是律師出身，你很會去閃躲這樣的問題，其實當時你說睡眠品質一樣，外界很多都會覺得你真的睡眠品質一樣嗎？你真覺得這一切都如常嗎？好，我再請教一下……"],["顧部長立雄：我認為敵情當然是值得我們來警惕的。現在中國的軍事武力不斷的擴張，不斷的在進行這些相關的操演或演習……"],["王委員鴻薇：有沒有對國防部長造成壓力？"],["顧部長立雄：我想我們對於任何一個工作都要戰戰兢兢。"],["王委員鴻薇：感覺你現在比剛出任國防部長的時候要沉重很多。另外，最近我們的駐美代表俞大㵢在接受美國媒體訪問的時候，他說臺灣已經準備好打仗了，傳回臺灣之後，引起軒然大波。所以我想請問部長，您同意俞大㵢的說法嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我認為俞大使所說的，主要重點應該是在強調我們臺灣應該要有足夠的自我防衛的能力跟決心……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以您同意……"],["顧部長立雄：這一點是比較重要，我認為他講話的重點……"],["王委員鴻薇：那天林佳龍部長有幫他再還原，說他的意思是如果遭到侵略的話，臺灣準備好打仗了。但無論如何，作為一個駐美大使，很多人講臺灣打仗的時候，你駐美大使會立刻飛回來跟我們一起打仗嗎？所以，您覺得駐美大使在接受美國媒體訪問的時候，直接這樣的一個談話適合嗎？對於我們的國軍弟兄，他們才是站在第一線的，您覺得適合嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我還是剛剛的回答，就是我認為俞大使真正的用意，是我們臺灣應該要持續加強我們的自我防衛能力跟決心，他主要的目的是在說明……"],["王委員鴻薇：如果俞大使是用您的話術的話，我覺得會比較好。所以我必須講，駐外大使尤其是駐美大使，還是需要謹言慎行。尤其國防部，因為你現在肩負的是我們很多站在第一線的國軍弟兄。","我剛才為什麼請政風室，今天來的是專門委員。主要是想請問部長，這一次，包含你自己在內的高階將官，我們一些情報人員的個資外洩，你們承認疏失，請問有人因此下臺嗎？有人被懲處嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我們會來檢討，並且進行相關的懲處。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以還沒有人被懲處？"],["顧部長立雄：現在是由法務部廉政署進行調查，調查之後，自然會來進行相關的……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以有人會被懲處，對不對？"],["顧部長立雄：就這個疏失，我想應該要檢討，然後來究責。"],["王委員鴻薇：當然要！老實說我今天看到是陳保倫專門委員來，我嚇一跳，但他們說主任在交通委員會……"],["顧部長立雄：因為交通委員會也排同樣的一場。"],["王委員鴻薇：我知道，但我覺得這件事情茲事體大，國防部雖然承認疏失，但第一時間是說：我們收回了，我們會強化作業程序！問題是今天有這麼多不應該被暴露的個資，然後只是因為我們的作業疏失，我們就可以給各單位？所以外界認為這樣還打仗嗎？還有什麼韌性？在那邊說什麼全民防衛韌性，花這麼多錢要訓練，還不知道有多少錢給綠友友，然後你們搞這樣的飛機有韌性可言嗎？部長。"],["顧部長立雄：這個……"],["王委員鴻薇：這件事發生在國防部耶！"],["顧部長立雄：還是要跟委員報告，因為這個還是循內部軍網的公文系統，以電子發文發送給這個各承辦單位，各承辦單位當然就公務上面看到這個相關的附件，我們承認確實沒有將一些機敏的人員做隔離，這是一個疏失，但是他也不宜將它外洩，所以……"],["王委員鴻薇：當然不能外洩！我知道大家都很辛苦，但是這個問題一定要嚴懲，尤其發生在國防部。另外還有一些補破網的措施，比如有些情報人員是用化名，然後你們現在把人家的真實身分統統曝光，尤其在軍中，大概知道誰是誰。另外就是單位會不會做一些輪調？你們除了去檢討、去調查、去懲處之外，接下來還有什麼補破網的措施嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：就我了解，這些相關的應該要做財產申報的，都是一定層級以上的人，他們都是用真實姓名來對外進行作業，所以沒有化名這樣子，也不是第一線的工作人員。當然我們也要承認我們有疏失，也做了風險的控管，將這些公文銷毀，從電腦上面全部刪除。這個部分，還是要檢討相關的疏失。"],["王委員鴻薇：這個是我們跟數發部所了解的，你可以看到這個資料是最近六年相關的資安事件，這裡面有政府單位的疏失，太多是由我們政府單位自己把資料外洩，剛剛講的國防部，我覺得是不能夠被容許的。過去包含我們一般民眾的戶政資料都可以外洩，有些是被駭客攻擊；但是你可以看到這六年來，大大小小從中央到地方公營事業，包含我們關鍵的基礎設施！我們今天不是在討論韌性嗎？這些關鍵基礎設施要怎麼去更強化它的韌性？大大小小的資安事件高達五千四百多件！其實這個問題滿嚴重的，除了來自駭客的攻擊之外，還有就是我們自己本身作業單位的疏失。過去很多政府單位資料外洩，我們都沒有看到一個真正的懲處，所以就會一而再、再而三的發生，每次發生的時候，就說我們會立刻改進，立刻收回等等，理由一大堆！所以我覺得以這件事來講，這次我就要看國防部怎麼處理，剛才部長回答說，在檢討之後，調查之後，該懲處的就懲處，好不好？"],["顧部長立雄：我想今天這個事件是人安的問題，資安的問題當然就涉及到中國不斷對我們進行網路的駭侵，就這個部分，我們當然要加強我們資安的防護能力。"],["王委員鴻薇：對，沒有錯，我這邊講的資安，當然來自於外來的攻擊，還有來自於我們自己本身內部作業疏失，自己就把資料給外洩出去了，所以這點很重要。謝謝。"],["顧部長立雄：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王鴻薇委員，部長請回。","接下來請楊瓊瓔、楊瓊瓔、楊瓊瓔委員不在。","接下來請洪申翰委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":352,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-7","speakers":["林憶君","羅美玲","陳永康","王定宇","馬文君","黃仁","陳冠廷","林楚茵","沈伯洋","徐巧芯","黃國昌","張啓楷","王鴻薇","洪申翰","羅智強","邱志偉","洪孟楷","賴士葆","張嘉郡"],"page_start":271,"meetingDate":["2024-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1138701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138701_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長、國家安全局、法務部調查局、海洋委員會海巡署、內政部、經濟部、農業部、\n國家發展委員會、國家科學及技術委員會、交通部、數位發展部、衛生福利部報告「針對解放軍\n未來可能透過『灰色地帶戰術』和『蟒蛇戰略』對台灣封鎖之國安危機及如何確保關鍵物資自\n主、關鍵產業、基礎設施、能源自主、民生物資、糧食安全及醫療物資供應無虞之應處作為」，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138701_00004"}}}