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00:02:29,065\n可以蓋房子沒有辦法蓋帳棚那這樣子幹嘛要推動小型露營場合法化如何保障消費者的權益所以我常常講是不是我們應該也要去產分級的管理不是這樣子一律把它進建那第二個原因什麼原因哇索費不支欸\n\n8\n00:02:30,465 --> 00:02:54,366\n因為您知道嗎?你看他們要面對環敏地區他的一個規費就六千塊然後他要去取得那些建築執照每一年安全結構就要兩萬那再來水土保持這些從簡易的三十到六十萬不等明年起又有水污法所以他們現在都要處理花一筆污水處理廠的錢\n\n9\n00:02:55,387 --> 00:03:12,752\n都還沒有含工程費用可能就要花掉一百萬他們也願意但是請看一下部長我們的露營場的作業辦法吼好不容易編了好幾千萬要去輔導明明交通部在一百一十一年的四月質詢的時候會議記錄也都有說過\n\n10\n00:03:16,053 --> 00:03:31,605\n在輔導充足入法之前不會去違法取締可是他們只要一申請那些人來就先給他收一個違規取締那這樣子到底怎麼辦所以呢是不是這個要點應該要予以修改\n\n11\n00:03:32,285 --> 00:03:54,943\n那我再給你看一個案例這個人呢他寫賴給我他說他為了符合第一階段第二階段他已經花130萬了結果最後又卡在什麼呢連我的砧板都要拆我要再多花二三十萬他說是農業局不同意所以一堆又是中央地方政府不同調部會之間不同調好因為時間的關係零零總總\n\n12\n00:03:58,866 --> 00:04:10,702\n我舉一個還有一個不同調的問題我們來看一下這個關於我們的露營場的範圍位於環敏地區的認定明明112年4月13號會議記錄協調會是寫著說\n\n13\n00:04:15,888 --> 00:04:36,581\n只要營衛設施、衛生設施管理師不得位於環境敏感地區可是隔了4個月跟地方政府會議我們交通部竟然退讓欸因為桃園市政府苗栗、新竹南投這些縣市強烈主張通通都不行\n\n14\n00:04:37,862 --> 00:05:03,299\n那這樣子到底要怎麼推動我都不曉得了所以我是希望說關於這些我剛剛講的帳篷啊、砧板啊這種可以隨時移動的到底要怎麼認定它位於什麼地方要怎麼認定我覺得錢大家我聽起來大家都願意花錢合法花那也需要尋求政府的幫助我自己會找原民會但是我覺得法規的部分的鬆綁\n\n15\n00:05:04,460 --> 00:05:17,498\n要不然沒有辦法推動沒有辦法推動我覺得是給我們的老百姓看笑話所以我在這個地方就是請部長幾個訴求像是我們原住民族土地使用管制規則這個部分\n\n16\n00:05:19,841 --> 00:05:42,881\n我們的國土計劃法明年上路有開放一個空間讓我們另以法律定資那我們也要推動高山農業農業部那邊我幾度質詢農業部長都尊重會配合我們國土計劃法下的原住民族土地使用管制規則我覺得這個空間我也要問交通部長願不願意來支持\n\n17\n00:05:45,009 --> 00:06:10,431\n好,報告委員,這個部分我們當然也尊重原住民的這個土地的使用那這個部分我們也會找原民會大家來溝通再結商好,那我希望說院長,我在總諮詢的時候,包括國土計畫法院長有承諾說要找一個政委召開跨部落的會議協調其他的合法化事宜那我希望說在今年底前召開,而且要複製本席可以嗎?\n\n18\n00:06:11,155 --> 00:06:24,828\n好,好,沒問題那謝謝齁那我在這個部分就後續我會繼續的來持續關注那也希望那個辦法要點的部分希望觀光局要趕快的來處理然後盡速的發文,可以嗎好,我請觀光署盡速來處理好,謝謝部長齁,謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4946\t7835\t謝謝主席有請交通部長交通部陳部長\n10677\t34483\t今天我們素發部長又來,素為部長部長好我109年進入到立法院就接到一個小型露營場合法化這樣的一個陳情訴求那陪伴了兩年做了公聽會做了質詢非常感謝交通部終於在109年的11月願意做主管機關\n35723\t39088\t二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就 «我國軌道建設執行概況》進二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就\n52165\t74980\t目前違法竟然是91%也就是說當初去處理小型露營場合法化是為了要讓他們合法納管這是為著我們消費者以及業主的權益可是我們來看一下它分兩階段第一階段是處理用地的問題有1440家去申請第一階段核准了461家\n80290\t102102\t第二階段是跟錢的問題有關因為為了要去符合法規結果呢最後通過的有40家我不用問一看就知道這樣的一個成效應該是不髒啊非常的不好那我們來分析一下原因我要講第一階段是用地的部分部長你聽聽看\n104083\t126718\t國土保安用地、土石溜潛勢區、環境敏感區區有19項都會被輔導退場那這樣子幹嘛要小型露營場合法化我舉個最簡單的例子原住民很多幾乎都在國土保安用地跟土石溜潛勢區但是大家就想不通我們部落就在那邊建造都可以拿到為什麼那個樹地\n129139\t149065\t可以蓋房子沒有辦法蓋帳棚那這樣子幹嘛要推動小型露營場合法化如何保障消費者的權益所以我常常講是不是我們應該也要去產分級的管理不是這樣子一律把它進建那第二個原因什麼原因哇 索費不支欸\n150465\t174366\t因為您知道嗎?你看他們要面對環敏地區他的一個規費就六千塊然後他要去取得那些建築執照每一年安全結構就要兩萬那再來水土保持這些從簡易的三十到六十萬不等明年起又有水污法所以他們現在都要處理花一筆污水處理廠的錢\n175387\t192752\t都還沒有含工程費用可能就要花掉一百萬他們也願意但是請看一下部長我們的露營場的作業辦法吼好不容易編了好幾千萬要去輔導明明交通部在一百一十一年的四月質詢的時候會議記錄也都有說過\n196053\t211605\t在輔導充足入法之前不會去違法取締可是他們只要一申請那些人來就先給他收一個違規取締那這樣子到底怎麼辦所以呢是不是這個要點應該要予以修改\n212285\t234943\t那我再給你看一個案例這個人呢他寫賴給我他說他為了符合第一階段第二階段他已經花130萬了結果最後又卡在什麼呢連我的砧板都要拆我要再多花二三十萬他說是農業局不同意所以一堆又是中央地方政府不同調部會之間不同調好因為時間的關係零零總總\n238866\t250702\t我舉一個還有一個不同調的問題我們來看一下這個關於我們的露營場的範圍位於環敏地區的認定明明112年4月13號會議記錄協調會是寫著說\n255888\t276581\t只要營衛設施、衛生設施管理師不得位於環境敏感地區可是隔了4個月跟地方政府會議我們交通部竟然退讓欸因為桃園市政府苗栗、新竹南投這些縣市強烈主張通通都不行\n277862\t303299\t那這樣子到底要怎麼推動我都不曉得了所以我是希望說關於這些我剛剛講的帳篷啊、砧板啊這種可以隨時移動的到底要怎麼認定它位於什麼地方要怎麼認定我覺得錢大家我聽起來大家都願意花錢合法花那也需要尋求政府的幫助我自己會找原民會但是我覺得法規的部分的鬆綁\n304460\t317498\t要不然沒有辦法推動沒有辦法推動我覺得是給我們的老百姓看笑話所以我在這個地方就是請部長幾個訴求像是我們原住民族土地使用管制規則這個部分\n319841\t342881\t我們的國土計劃法明年上路有開放一個空間讓我們另以法律定資那我們也要推動高山農業農業部那邊我幾度質詢農業部長都尊重會配合我們國土計劃法下的原住民族土地使用管制規則我覺得這個空間我也要問交通部長願不願意來支持\n345009\t370431\t好,報告委員,這個部分我們當然也尊重原住民的這個土地的使用那這個部分我們也會找原民會大家來溝通再結商好,那我希望說院長,我在總諮詢的時候,包括國土計畫法院長有承諾說要找一個政委召開跨部落的會議協調其他的合法化事宜那我希望說在今年底前召開,而且要複製本席可以嗎?\n371155\t384828\t好,好,沒問題那謝謝齁那我在這個部分就後續我會繼續的來持續關注那也希望那個辦法要點的部分希望觀光局要趕快的來處理然後盡速的發文,可以嗎好,我請觀光署盡速來處理好,謝謝部長齁,謝謝主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請交通部長交通部陳部長\n今天我們素發部長又來,素為部長部長好我109年進入到立法院就接到一個小型露營場合法化這樣的一個陳情訴求那陪伴了兩年做了公聽會做了質詢非常感謝交通部終於在109年的11月願意做主管機關\n二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就 «我國軌道建設執行概況》進二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就\n目前違法竟然是91%也就是說當初去處理小型露營場合法化是為了要讓他們合法納管這是為著我們消費者以及業主的權益可是我們來看一下它分兩階段第一階段是處理用地的問題有1440家去申請第一階段核准了461家\n第二階段是跟錢的問題有關因為為了要去符合法規結果呢最後通過的有40家我不用問一看就知道這樣的一個成效應該是不髒啊非常的不好那我們來分析一下原因我要講第一階段是用地的部分部長你聽聽看\n國土保安用地、土石溜潛勢區、環境敏感區區有19項都會被輔導退場那這樣子幹嘛要小型露營場合法化我舉個最簡單的例子原住民很多幾乎都在國土保安用地跟土石溜潛勢區但是大家就想不通我們部落就在那邊建造都可以拿到為什麼那個樹地\n可以蓋房子沒有辦法蓋帳棚那這樣子幹嘛要推動小型露營場合法化如何保障消費者的權益所以我常常講是不是我們應該也要去產分級的管理不是這樣子一律把它進建那第二個原因什麼原因哇 索費不支欸\n因為您知道嗎?你看他們要面對環敏地區他的一個規費就六千塊然後他要去取得那些建築執照每一年安全結構就要兩萬那再來水土保持這些從簡易的三十到六十萬不等明年起又有水污法所以他們現在都要處理花一筆污水處理廠的錢\n都還沒有含工程費用可能就要花掉一百萬他們也願意但是請看一下部長我們的露營場的作業辦法吼好不容易編了好幾千萬要去輔導明明交通部在一百一十一年的四月質詢的時候會議記錄也都有說過\n在輔導充足入法之前不會去違法取締可是他們只要一申請那些人來就先給他收一個違規取締那這樣子到底怎麼辦所以呢是不是這個要點應該要予以修改\n那我再給你看一個案例這個人呢他寫賴給我他說他為了符合第一階段第二階段他已經花130萬了結果最後又卡在什麼呢連我的砧板都要拆我要再多花二三十萬他說是農業局不同意所以一堆又是中央地方政府不同調部會之間不同調好因為時間的關係零零總總\n我舉一個還有一個不同調的問題我們來看一下這個關於我們的露營場的範圍位於環敏地區的認定明明112年4月13號會議記錄協調會是寫著說\n只要營衛設施、衛生設施管理師不得位於環境敏感地區可是隔了4個月跟地方政府會議我們交通部竟然退讓欸因為桃園市政府苗栗、新竹南投這些縣市強烈主張通通都不行\n那這樣子到底要怎麼推動我都不曉得了所以我是希望說關於這些我剛剛講的帳篷啊、砧板啊這種可以隨時移動的到底要怎麼認定它位於什麼地方要怎麼認定我覺得錢大家我聽起來大家都願意花錢合法花那也需要尋求政府的幫助我自己會找原民會但是我覺得法規的部分的鬆綁\n要不然沒有辦法推動沒有辦法推動我覺得是給我們的老百姓看笑話所以我在這個地方就是請部長幾個訴求像是我們原住民族土地使用管制規則這個部分\n我們的國土計劃法明年上路有開放一個空間讓我們另以法律定資那我們也要推動高山農業農業部那邊我幾度質詢農業部長都尊重會配合我們國土計劃法下的原住民族土地使用管制規則我覺得這個空間我也要問交通部長願不願意來支持\n好,報告委員,這個部分我們當然也尊重原住民的這個土地的使用那這個部分我們也會找原民會大家來溝通再結商好,那我希望說院長,我在總諮詢的時候,包括國土計畫法院長有承諾說要找一個政委召開跨部落的會議協調其他的合法化事宜那我希望說在今年底前召開,而且要複製本席可以嗎?\n好,好,沒問題那謝謝齁那我在這個部分就後續我會繼續的來持續關注那也希望那個辦法要點的部分希望觀光局要趕快的來處理然後盡速的發文,可以嗎好,我請觀光署盡速來處理好,謝謝部長齁,謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.946 --> 00:07.835\n謝謝主席有請交通部長交通部陳部長\n\n00:10.677 --> 00:34.483\n今天我們素發部長又來,素為部長部長好我109年進入到立法院就接到一個小型露營場合法化這樣的一個陳情訴求那陪伴了兩年做了公聽會做了質詢非常感謝交通部終於在109年的11月願意做主管機關\n\n00:35.723 --> 00:39.088\n二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就«我國軌道建設執行概況》進二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就\n\n00:52.165 --> 01:14.980\n目前違法竟然是91%也就是說當初去處理小型露營場合法化是為了要讓他們合法納管這是為著我們消費者以及業主的權益可是我們來看一下它分兩階段第一階段是處理用地的問題有1440家去申請第一階段核准了461家\n\n01:20.290 --> 01:42.102\n第二階段是跟錢的問題有關因為為了要去符合法規結果呢最後通過的有40家我不用問一看就知道這樣的一個成效應該是不髒啊非常的不好那我們來分析一下原因我要講第一階段是用地的部分部長你聽聽看\n\n01:44.083 --> 02:06.718\n國土保安用地、土石溜潛勢區、環境敏感區區有19項都會被輔導退場那這樣子幹嘛要小型露營場合法化我舉個最簡單的例子原住民很多幾乎都在國土保安用地跟土石溜潛勢區但是大家就想不通我們部落就在那邊建造都可以拿到為什麼那個樹地\n\n02:09.139 --> 02:29.065\n可以蓋房子沒有辦法蓋帳棚那這樣子幹嘛要推動小型露營場合法化如何保障消費者的權益所以我常常講是不是我們應該也要去產分級的管理不是這樣子一律把它進建那第二個原因什麼原因哇索費不支欸\n\n02:30.465 --> 02:54.366\n因為您知道嗎?你看他們要面對環敏地區他的一個規費就六千塊然後他要去取得那些建築執照每一年安全結構就要兩萬那再來水土保持這些從簡易的三十到六十萬不等明年起又有水污法所以他們現在都要處理花一筆污水處理廠的錢\n\n02:55.387 --> 03:12.752\n都還沒有含工程費用可能就要花掉一百萬他們也願意但是請看一下部長我們的露營場的作業辦法吼好不容易編了好幾千萬要去輔導明明交通部在一百一十一年的四月質詢的時候會議記錄也都有說過\n\n03:16.053 --> 03:31.605\n在輔導充足入法之前不會去違法取締可是他們只要一申請那些人來就先給他收一個違規取締那這樣子到底怎麼辦所以呢是不是這個要點應該要予以修改\n\n03:32.285 --> 03:54.943\n那我再給你看一個案例這個人呢他寫賴給我他說他為了符合第一階段第二階段他已經花130萬了結果最後又卡在什麼呢連我的砧板都要拆我要再多花二三十萬他說是農業局不同意所以一堆又是中央地方政府不同調部會之間不同調好因為時間的關係零零總總\n\n03:58.866 --> 04:10.702\n我舉一個還有一個不同調的問題我們來看一下這個關於我們的露營場的範圍位於環敏地區的認定明明112年4月13號會議記錄協調會是寫著說\n\n04:15.888 --> 04:36.581\n只要營衛設施、衛生設施管理師不得位於環境敏感地區可是隔了4個月跟地方政府會議我們交通部竟然退讓欸因為桃園市政府苗栗、新竹南投這些縣市強烈主張通通都不行\n\n04:37.862 --> 05:03.299\n那這樣子到底要怎麼推動我都不曉得了所以我是希望說關於這些我剛剛講的帳篷啊、砧板啊這種可以隨時移動的到底要怎麼認定它位於什麼地方要怎麼認定我覺得錢大家我聽起來大家都願意花錢合法花那也需要尋求政府的幫助我自己會找原民會但是我覺得法規的部分的鬆綁\n\n05:04.460 --> 05:17.498\n要不然沒有辦法推動沒有辦法推動我覺得是給我們的老百姓看笑話所以我在這個地方就是請部長幾個訴求像是我們原住民族土地使用管制規則這個部分\n\n05:19.841 --> 05:42.881\n我們的國土計劃法明年上路有開放一個空間讓我們另以法律定資那我們也要推動高山農業農業部那邊我幾度質詢農業部長都尊重會配合我們國土計劃法下的原住民族土地使用管制規則我覺得這個空間我也要問交通部長願不願意來支持\n\n05:45.009 --> 06:10.431\n好,報告委員,這個部分我們當然也尊重原住民的這個土地的使用那這個部分我們也會找原民會大家來溝通再結商好,那我希望說院長,我在總諮詢的時候,包括國土計畫法院長有承諾說要找一個政委召開跨部落的會議協調其他的合法化事宜那我希望說在今年底前召開,而且要複製本席可以嗎?\n\n06:11.155 --> 06:24.828\n好,好,沒問題那謝謝齁那我在這個部分就後續我會繼續的來持續關注那也希望那個辦法要點的部分希望觀光局要趕快的來處理然後盡速的發文,可以嗎好,我請觀光署盡速來處理好,謝謝部長齁,謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.946,"end":7.835,"text":"謝謝主席有請交通部長交通部陳部長"},{"start":10.677,"end":34.483,"text":"今天我們素發部長又來,素為部長部長好我109年進入到立法院就接到一個小型露營場合法化這樣的一個陳情訴求那陪伴了兩年做了公聽會做了質詢非常感謝交通部終於在109年的11月願意做主管機關"},{"start":35.723,"end":39.088,"text":"二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就 «我國軌道建設執行概況》進二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就"},{"start":52.165,"end":74.98,"text":"目前違法竟然是91%也就是說當初去處理小型露營場合法化是為了要讓他們合法納管這是為著我們消費者以及業主的權益可是我們來看一下它分兩階段第一階段是處理用地的問題有1440家去申請第一階段核准了461家"},{"start":80.29,"end":102.102,"text":"第二階段是跟錢的問題有關因為為了要去符合法規結果呢最後通過的有40家我不用問一看就知道這樣的一個成效應該是不髒啊非常的不好那我們來分析一下原因我要講第一階段是用地的部分部長你聽聽看"},{"start":104.083,"end":126.718,"text":"國土保安用地、土石溜潛勢區、環境敏感區區有19項都會被輔導退場那這樣子幹嘛要小型露營場合法化我舉個最簡單的例子原住民很多幾乎都在國土保安用地跟土石溜潛勢區但是大家就想不通我們部落就在那邊建造都可以拿到為什麼那個樹地"},{"start":129.139,"end":149.065,"text":"可以蓋房子沒有辦法蓋帳棚那這樣子幹嘛要推動小型露營場合法化如何保障消費者的權益所以我常常講是不是我們應該也要去產分級的管理不是這樣子一律把它進建那第二個原因什麼原因哇 索費不支欸"},{"start":150.465,"end":174.366,"text":"因為您知道嗎?你看他們要面對環敏地區他的一個規費就六千塊然後他要去取得那些建築執照每一年安全結構就要兩萬那再來水土保持這些從簡易的三十到六十萬不等明年起又有水污法所以他們現在都要處理花一筆污水處理廠的錢"},{"start":175.387,"end":192.752,"text":"都還沒有含工程費用可能就要花掉一百萬他們也願意但是請看一下部長我們的露營場的作業辦法吼好不容易編了好幾千萬要去輔導明明交通部在一百一十一年的四月質詢的時候會議記錄也都有說過"},{"start":196.053,"end":211.605,"text":"在輔導充足入法之前不會去違法取締可是他們只要一申請那些人來就先給他收一個違規取締那這樣子到底怎麼辦所以呢是不是這個要點應該要予以修改"},{"start":212.285,"end":234.943,"text":"那我再給你看一個案例這個人呢他寫賴給我他說他為了符合第一階段第二階段他已經花130萬了結果最後又卡在什麼呢連我的砧板都要拆我要再多花二三十萬他說是農業局不同意所以一堆又是中央地方政府不同調部會之間不同調好因為時間的關係零零總總"},{"start":238.866,"end":250.702,"text":"我舉一個還有一個不同調的問題我們來看一下這個關於我們的露營場的範圍位於環敏地區的認定明明112年4月13號會議記錄協調會是寫著說"},{"start":255.888,"end":276.581,"text":"只要營衛設施、衛生設施管理師不得位於環境敏感地區可是隔了4個月跟地方政府會議我們交通部竟然退讓欸因為桃園市政府苗栗、新竹南投這些縣市強烈主張通通都不行"},{"start":277.862,"end":303.299,"text":"那這樣子到底要怎麼推動我都不曉得了所以我是希望說關於這些我剛剛講的帳篷啊、砧板啊這種可以隨時移動的到底要怎麼認定它位於什麼地方要怎麼認定我覺得錢大家我聽起來大家都願意花錢合法花那也需要尋求政府的幫助我自己會找原民會但是我覺得法規的部分的鬆綁"},{"start":304.46,"end":317.498,"text":"要不然沒有辦法推動沒有辦法推動我覺得是給我們的老百姓看笑話所以我在這個地方就是請部長幾個訴求像是我們原住民族土地使用管制規則這個部分"},{"start":319.841,"end":342.881,"text":"我們的國土計劃法明年上路有開放一個空間讓我們另以法律定資那我們也要推動高山農業農業部那邊我幾度質詢農業部長都尊重會配合我們國土計劃法下的原住民族土地使用管制規則我覺得這個空間我也要問交通部長願不願意來支持"},{"start":345.009,"end":370.431,"text":"好,報告委員,這個部分我們當然也尊重原住民的這個土地的使用那這個部分我們也會找原民會大家來溝通再結商好,那我希望說院長,我在總諮詢的時候,包括國土計畫法院長有承諾說要找一個政委召開跨部落的會議協調其他的合法化事宜那我希望說在今年底前召開,而且要複製本席可以嗎?"},{"start":371.155,"end":384.828,"text":"好,好,沒問題那謝謝齁那我在這個部分就後續我會繼續的來持續關注那也希望那個辦法要點的部分希望觀光局要趕快的來處理然後盡速的發文,可以嗎好,我請觀光署盡速來處理好,謝謝部長齁,謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1033,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（12時47分）謝謝主席！有請交通部長。"],["主席：請交通部陳部長，今天我們數發部部長也有來。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：部長好。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我109年進入立法院就接到一個小型露營場合法化的陳情訴求，那陪伴了兩年，開了公聽會，做了質詢，非常感謝交通部終於在109年的11月願意做主管機關，在111年5月的時候終於有辦法上路，現在是113年的10月，我拿到最新的資料，目前違法的竟然占91%，也就是說當初去處理小型露營場合法化是為了要讓他們合法納管，這是為著我們消費者以及業主的權益，可是我們來看一下，它分兩階段，第一階段是處理用地的問題，有1,440家去申請，核准了461家，第二階段是跟錢的問題有關，為了要符合法規，結果最後通過的有40家，我不用問，一看就知道這樣的一個成效應該是不彰，非常的不好。我們來分析一下原因，第一階段是用地的部分，部長你聽聽看，位於國土保安用地、土石流潛勢區、環境敏感地區等19項都會被輔導退場，那這樣子幹嘛要小型露營場合法化？我舉一個最簡單的例子，原住民的部分很多幾乎都在國土保安用地跟土石流潛勢區，大家就想不通，我們部落就在那邊，建照都可以拿到，為什麼那個宿地可以蓋房子，沒有辦法蓋帳篷？那這樣子幹嘛要推動小型露營場合法化？如何保障消費者的權益？所以我常常講是不是我們應該也要採分級的管理，不是這樣子一律把它禁建。","第二個是什麼原因？哇！所費不貲耶！您知道嗎？查詢是否是環敏地區，它的規費就6,000塊，然後他要去取得那些建築執照，每一年安全結構就要2萬，再來水土保持從簡易的30萬到60萬不等，明年起又有水污法，所以他們現在都要處理，再花一筆污水處理廠的錢，都還沒有含工程費用可能就要花掉100萬，他們也願意。但是部長請看一下，我們露營場的作業辦法，好不容易編了好幾千萬要去輔導，明明交通部在111年4月質詢的時候也都有說過，你看會議紀錄，在輔導充足入法之前不會去取締違法，可是他們只要一申請，那些人來就先給他收一個違規取締，這樣子到底怎麼辦？所以是不是這個要點應該予以修改？","我再給您看一個案例，這個人寫LINE給我，他說為了符合第一階段、第二階段已經花130萬了，結果最後又卡在什麼呢？連他的棧板都要拆，並且要再多花二、三十萬，因為農業局不同意。所以一堆問題又是中央、地方政府不同調，部會之間不同調。因為時間的關係，林林總總的我再舉一個不同調的問題，我們來看一下，關於露營場的範圍，位於環境敏感地區的認定，明明112年4月13號協調會會議紀錄是寫著說，只要「營位設施」、「衛生設施」、「管理室」不得位於環境敏感地區。可是隔了4個月，跟地方政府會議，我們交通部竟然退讓耶！因為桃園市政府、苗栗、新竹、南投這些縣市強烈主張統統都不行，這樣子到底要怎麼推動？我都不曉得了。","所以我希望關於我剛剛講的，帳篷、棧板等，這種可以隨時移動的，到底要怎麼認定？它位於什麼地方要怎麼認定？我聽起來大家都願意花錢合法化，也需要尋求政府的幫助，我自己會找原民會，但是我覺得法規要部分的鬆綁，要不然沒有辦法推動，沒有辦法推動，我覺得是給我們的老百姓看笑話！所以部長，我有幾個訴求，像是我們原住民族土地使用管制規則這個部分，國土計畫法明年上路，有開放一個空間讓我們另以法律定之，並且我們也要推動高山農業，農業部我幾度質詢，部長都表示尊重，會配合國土計畫法下的原住民族土地使用管制規則。這個空間我也要問交通部長，願不願意來支持？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，這個部分我們當然也尊重原住民土地的使用，也會找原民會，大家來溝通、來協商。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，我在總質詢的時候，包括國土計畫法，院長有承諾要找一個政委召開跨部會的會議協調其他合法化事宜，我希望在今年底前召開，而且要副知本席，可以嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：好，沒問題。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝，這個部分後續我會持續的關注，也希望辦法、要點的部分觀光署要趕快的處理，然後儘速的發文，可以嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：好，我請觀光署儘速來處理，謝謝。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝部長、謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝伍麗華委員。","接下來有請林月琴委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":288,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-7","speakers":["魯明哲","李昆澤","林國成","許智傑","林沛祥","何欣純","陳素月","林俊憲","徐富癸","蔡其昌","廖先翔","邱若華","陳雪生","郭國文","王育敏","陳亭妃","陳菁徽","徐巧芯","黃國昌","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林月琴","林倩綺","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","陳培瑜","劉建國","游顥","黃健豪"],"page_start":197,"meetingDate":["2024-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1139001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長杜微及文化部就「臺鐵如何精進\n服務品質、落實轉型治理、加速資產活化、強化文資保存及提升鐵道美學與功能」進行專題報\n告，並備質詢；二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就「我國軌道建設執行概況」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢；三、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男、數位發展部資通安全署署長及國防部就「國防部財產申報\n作業誤失之問題檢討、應處作為、風險管控及後續強化資安保護」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139001_00004"}}}