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\"end\": 864.014, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 864.014, \"end\": 864.155, \"score\": 0.542}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 864.155, \"end\": 864.435, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 864.435, \"end\": 865.676, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 865.676, \"end\": 866.056, \"score\": 0.692}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"弄\", \"start\": 866.056, \"end\": 866.236, \"score\": 0.607}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 866.236, \"end\": 866.336, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 866.336, \"end\": 866.456, \"score\": 0.674}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 866.456, \"end\": 866.676, \"score\": 0.678}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 866.676, \"end\": 866.876, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 866.876, \"end\": 867.297, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 867.297, \"end\": 867.457, \"score\": 0.458}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 867.457, \"end\": 867.537, \"score\": 0.482}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 867.537, \"end\": 867.697, \"score\": 0.477}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 867.697, \"end\": 867.857, \"score\": 0.759}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 867.857, \"end\": 867.997, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 867.997, \"end\": 868.017, \"score\": 0.014}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 868.017, \"end\": 868.117, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 868.117, \"end\": 868.237, \"score\": 0.492}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 868.237, \"end\": 868.357, \"score\": 0.658}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 868.357, \"end\": 868.537, \"score\": 0.659}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 868.537, \"end\": 868.558, \"score\": 0.086}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 868.558, \"end\": 868.718, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 868.718, \"end\": 868.738, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 868.738, \"end\": 868.758, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 868.758, \"end\": 868.778, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"辯\"}, {\"word\": \"護\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,789 --> 00:00:05,131\n謝謝主席及各位先進有請國防部的顧部長請顧部長是,賴委員部長辛苦了齁前面有委員問到我想我再要確定一下就是我們現在國軍用的戰備的參核這是不是確定了這個加熱的部分\n\n2\n00:00:29,513 --> 00:00:56,532\n是怎麼樣?最後確定是用什麼樣的版本?是40塊到50塊的簡易還是用240塊的六分兩數的?報告簡單跟您報告一下三樣東西都有被變第一個是加熱式餐盒第二個是口糧第三個是我們的所謂的即食包也就是在一般便利商店我們可以看到的一個就是直接拆開的即食包請問你這個準備多少?這三樣各準備多少?\n\n3\n00:00:57,621 --> 00:01:11,966\n我可以私下跟委員報告因為這個準備的天數它是屬於比較機密的機密嗎是確定是機密不同不同這個我們農業部都講了我們的戰備儲糧準備6個月7個月什麼6個月委員分成兩部分農業部都講了你有什麼機密可以講我是覺得奇怪的這個農業部的準備有了經濟部會講了這個\n\n4\n00:01:23,806 --> 00:01:39,928\n委員我所謂的經濟的部分是指的是說它的個別的天數我可以跟委員報告全部來全部來維持30日以上冷凍食品都是在7日以上的冷凍食品7日然後30日價格怎麼樣價格\n\n5\n00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:56,127\n價格的話就是加熱式的比較貴一點它就在240塊左右然後口糧的部分比較便宜口糧部分大概在90塊左右那剩下來的調理包的部分就跟一般市售的一樣大概在40、50塊左右\n\n6\n00:01:58,150 --> 00:02:14,464\n所以大家可以大概分得清楚了冷凍的7天其他的30天以上以上到哪裡不知道就這個意思是不是對詳細的因為牽扯到人數的問題所以跟委員私下再說好私下跟我說明來部長我想請問你你今天對外講了說中國大陸中共如果封鎖台灣國際不會做事\n\n7\n00:02:27,701 --> 00:02:47,987\n請問它現在封鎖沒有?迄今嗎?對,到現在為止如果按照國際法上的定義的話,它目前並沒有,因為封鎖是一個交戰的行動請問你那聯合力艦2020B算不算封鎖?算是一種操演,但沒有真的封鎖\n\n8\n00:02:48,792 --> 00:03:12,134\n超遠封鎖,但是接近封鎖,不等於封鎖,是不是?」是這樣的意思?他自己發布這段,他就是一個罪有嘛,他自己在超遠那他並沒有畫射箭和禁航區,也沒有讓任何的載空機或者是載船來自由的進出我們的港口啊這兩天在平潭打飛彈是不是因應美加的軍艦經過我們這邊?\n\n9\n00:03:14,605 --> 00:03:40,904\n你說他在平坦對平坦前幾天我們的瞭解就是一個例行性的演練那但是他不像這個例行性的演練把他故意宣傳然後作為一個心理威懾的一部分這樣子算不算因應我剛說過了因為美加不是軍艦經過我們這裡嗎我們的理解是這個是一個他例行性訓練的項目之一但是他把他就是有點要擴大作為一個\n\n10\n00:03:43,463 --> 00:04:06,581\n製造對我們的一個心理威懾,算是在歷史以外從事一個認知戰嗎?應該是這樣的概念部長,你今天講的話,這裡面有很多的歧讀說如果封鎖台灣國際不會做事,你的言下之意是一封鎖我們就要靠人家救,自己沒辦法自救,是這個意思嗎?不是\n\n11\n00:04:08,325 --> 00:04:35,948\n我們封鎖我剛剛已經講了如果是屬於國際法上的封鎖的話他是阻止所有國家基建進出我們管轄的港口、機場跟海岸線那這樣子的一個封鎖行為會被視為戰爭行為我們就會進入應急作戰階段我們所有的部隊我們的所有的武器裝備都會進入應急作戰階段應該有的部署位置我先問你一個很粗淺的一般老百姓很想知道的\n\n12\n00:04:37,236 --> 00:04:46,409\n現在道路的步步進逼2024A再過來B慢慢一直把台灣越拉越緊的情況之下\n\n13\n00:04:47,813 --> 00:04:55,174\n我們看到我們的因應除了你們在這裡講說都免驚啦都免驚啦講得好像感覺相關的單位我們的國軍只剩下打嘴砲而已啊或者是我們沒有說我們不用那個我一再的講我們要警惕這樣子的一個不是不是好好好我要強調是說怎麼會說他一直進逼然後我們嘴巴講而已沒辦法讓他不要進逼或者把他讓他退回去\n\n14\n00:05:17,899 --> 00:05:20,242\n就是說A到B又往台灣進了我想辦法讓他退到A甚至於退得更前面\n\n15\n00:05:25,411 --> 00:05:43,207\n這是中國的一種威權擴張中國在挑釁啊你要想辦法,你要讓人家知道我們國防預算一直增加我們不申告衝突,我們在克制我們只是向氣球維持現狀中國不認為維持現狀是可以接受的啊這個問題是出在中國不接受現狀的維持啊\n\n16\n00:05:49,853 --> 00:06:09,631\n那我們不應該接受他一直往我們這裡面圍難道國防部不是這樣子嗎?不是這種態度嗎?所以我們就要用聯合情形戰爭的手段來綿密的監控他相關的所有的作為我們要掌控他的所有的一舉一動不管是航空的監控不夠啦你要想辦法讓他不進來嘛那我們有應處啊只是說沒有啊沒有看到應處什麼應處呢?\n\n17\n00:06:12,473 --> 00:06:32,720\n我們要捍衛我們的領海、領空、領土這個部分就是我們的現在映出這個灰色地帶洗腦我們最必要的一個一個部分那我們就是要應對應對這樣子的請問你B有沒有比A更靠近台灣有沒有\n\n18\n00:06:33,527 --> 00:06:58,403\n他都沒有進入二次海裡對但是有靠近一點啊那不是沒有沒有進入二次海裡我們看圖都有那圖這樣畫問題是他沒有這樣的作為啊那他圖也沒有精緯度他自己就畫了圖然後看起來跨過二次海裡可是問題是他的操演一天結束在這一天當中他就沒有進入到我們的二次海裡不管是這個在空中的或是海面的啊\n\n19\n00:06:58,723 --> 00:07:22,289\n所以你的意思是以後不管中國大陸中共他怎麼樣的演習我們都不要理他大家都不用怕是不是這個意思不是我從來沒有講過不是你從來沒有講過我們是這樣所以不用理他怎麼可以不用理他呢我們要戒慎恐懼面對這樣子的一個敵情日趨嚴峻威脅的一個狀況請問老百姓要做什麼心理解釋\n\n20\n00:07:25,512 --> 00:07:38,044\n我覺得老百姓當然我們在推動全民防衛任性的目的就是在讓這個全民應該要有一個在團結之下要建立這樣的一個心防居然能夠思維\n\n21\n00:07:40,346 --> 00:07:59,375\n你上次講了說40萬的民力不等於民兵可是你那個叫戰手冊裡面TEC、TEC就講到說最好的防禦就是把對方殺死那這個很好啊那這個不就是全民皆兵了嗎我想這個TEC應該是消防署是吧\n\n22\n00:08:00,583 --> 00:08:05,770\n是哪一個?消防署吧?那這個應該是不是由消防署來回答?\n\n23\n00:08:14,638 --> 00:08:39,351\n那個戰術手冊是我們因應不同的時間不同地點採取的不同救護方式你上面寫的說最好的防禦方式就是把對方殺死那不就全民皆兵了那個是在測驗的一個翻譯的那個題目就是那個訓練後的測驗的翻譯的題目翻譯喔對所以就講白了嘛就通通是美國叫我們做的嘛是不是就這個意思啦是不是\n\n24\n00:08:43,516 --> 00:08:58,408\n沒有這是給舊戶同仁另外一個思考就是在不同的時間採取不同的因應作為好啦最後一個我時間到了不想拖太久了部長我請問你現在有沒有比520更緊張了台海的局勢有沒有我認為中國一直是採取這樣子的一種對我們\n\n25\n00:09:08,584 --> 00:09:35,723\n在周遭進行這樣子一個演訓的相關的作為那這些相關的作為他不會因為任何在任何的情況之下他會找任何的理由或任何的藉口然後來持續的來進行這樣的一個挑釁的作為那我們國人當然都要團結那國軍得要借勝一對川普這個最近的民調不錯看起來有機會說不定選贏了說不定的不知道\n\n26\n00:09:37,537 --> 00:09:41,458\n但是他5月份的時候講了一句話說中共如果入侵台灣要轟炸北京結果現在救他現在說要制裁他要關稅扣150%到200%到底的做法就是跟對烏克蘭一樣制裁俄羅斯然後也不幫俄國人打仗要給武器對台灣是幾乎完全一樣你怎麼看川普這樣講法\n\n27\n00:10:07,489 --> 00:10:31,071\n我想美國迄今為止我只能夠說美國迄今為止仍然維持一個戰略模糊的政策這個戰略模糊的一個政策意思就是說你不能夠排除他可能出兵你也不可能排除他不出兵也就是他維持一個戰略模糊的一個然後藉此來進行一個嚇阻那我想這是迄今為止美國政府的一個態度\n\n28\n00:10:31,493 --> 00:10:35,240\n他的美國都戰略模糊了我們的外交官還戰略這麼清楚那請問我們要不要戰略模糊\n\n29\n00:10:39,724 --> 00:11:02,086\n我們是守勢的一方,我們要的就是說如何拒止這個中國可能的一個全面侵犯然後讓一旦發生這個全面侵犯,我們讓它全面侵犯能夠失敗我們要很具體吧,我們戰略不能模糊,我們要戰略清楚你懂不懂我講的,不能讓它愈來愈雷齒,一步就是這樣\n\n30\n00:11:03,649 --> 00:11:18,829\n我們的戰術戰略要很清楚啊對在平時我們應付灰色地帶的洗澡就是要捍衛我們的領土領空領海那如果說有那在暫時的話就是讓他的這個清台的行動失敗這是我們非常清楚的一個戰略\n\n31\n00:11:20,091 --> 00:11:40,337\n所以我們是戰略清楚美國是戰略模糊是這個樣子嗎我該不該這樣講我們沒有要採取這個之前已經講我們沒有要反攻大陸我們就是守勢作戰的一方只有他我們要隨時戒備他任何可能對我們的作為我們的\n\n32\n00:11:43,678 --> 00:11:49,341\n很清楚的就是我們希望能夠維持現狀時間到了我最後一句話你今天各大媒體講的那一句話其實外界的解讀是國防部長顧立雄說如果被封鎖就是國際不會做事言下之意就是我們沒有人力突破他的封鎖就這個意思我不是這個意思不是喔就這樣就不用國際的啊我們自己都可以突破還要國際\n\n33\n00:12:13,011 --> 00:12:13,272\n阿諾阿諾阿諾阿諾阿諾阿諾阿諾阿諾\n\n34\n00:12:21,618 --> 00:12:45,348\n他封鎖請問你他封鎖我們有沒有能力突破封鎖我們有沒有能力我們要我們要應用我們所有的這個防衛的力量來確保我們這個國土的安全你現在連講的就這麼沒信心你應該很大聲的講我們絕對有人力突破封鎖再等到外面的來更好這樣是不是這種答案不是更漂亮\n\n35\n00:12:48,634 --> 00:13:05,582\n我已經講過了沒有講沒有聽清楚封鎖這個階段就已經進入了我們應急作戰的階段我們就要準備好應對這樣子的一個交戰的做法沒有回答問題憑著中華民國的國軍能不能突破封鎖問你這句話啦可以不可以啦\n\n36\n00:13:06,482 --> 00:13:23,310\n我們能夠做這個相關的因應的一個作為然後讓他的這個封鎖的這個行動會不成功那我們這就是我們應該要做的事情那就是解讀說可以突破封鎖那你快點啊簡單一點聽得懂嗎你說一堆人聽不懂可以突破封鎖那你聽得懂嗎可以嗎我們呃會來呃救他的這個不敢說奇怪的這麼沒信心我已經在做事給你了不敢接你看\n\n37\n00:13:37,353 --> 00:13:50,987\n你說完全贊成賴文獎的,絕對有人力突破就好了,我說不是你說的,不是很好我個人認為要封鎖沒有那麼簡單,我們也有能力力來保衛我們的國土然後來進行這個反封鎖相關的作為這不等於突破封鎖,不等於突破封鎖\n\n38\n00:13:56,280 --> 00:14:04,384\n這等於通過封鎖啦對不起我能不能請教一下委員認為什麼叫做突破封鎖他把你封鎖就把你圍起來啊突破就是要出去啊這治理行業就這麼簡單的事情這個沒什麼大的學問啊這需要什麼學問那我們有相關的反封鎖的這個規劃跟作為剛才這裡也沒有辦法沒有規劃啦有人力就好了啦\n\n39\n00:14:19,231 --> 00:14:28,778\n我想我們也應該要有具備這樣的一個反封鎖的能力不要再說了說得急急的國防部長你這樣弄我們有信心嘛你今天回答我們都沒有信心去本來我們都辯護\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n789\t5131\t謝謝主席及各位先進有請國防部的顧部長請顧部長是,賴委員部長辛苦了齁前面有委員問到我想我再要確定一下就是我們現在國軍用的戰備的參核這是不是確定了這個加熱的部分\n29513\t56532\t是怎麼樣?最後確定是用什麼樣的版本?是40塊到50塊的簡易還是用240塊的六分兩數的?報告 簡單跟您報告一下三樣東西都有被變第一個是加熱式餐盒第二個是口糧第三個是我們的所謂的即食包也就是在一般便利商店我們可以看到的一個就是直接拆開的即食包請問你這個準備多少?這三樣各準備多少?\n57621\t71966\t我可以私下跟委員報告因為這個準備的天數它是屬於比較機密的機密嗎是確定是機密不同不同這個我們農業部都講了我們的戰備儲糧準備6個月7個月什麼6個月委員分成兩部分農業部都講了你有什麼機密可以講我是覺得奇怪的這個農業部的準備有了經濟部會講了這個\n83806\t99928\t委員我所謂的經濟的部分是指的是說它的個別的天數我可以跟委員報告全部來全部來維持30日以上冷凍食品都是在7日以上的冷凍食品7日然後30日價格怎麼樣價格\n102040\t116127\t價格的話就是加熱式的比較貴一點它就在240塊左右然後口糧的部分比較便宜口糧部分大概在90塊左右那剩下來的調理包的部分就跟一般市售的一樣大概在40、50塊左右\n118150\t134464\t所以大家可以大概分得清楚了冷凍的7天其他的30天以上以上到哪裡不知道就這個意思是不是對 詳細的因為牽扯到人數的問題所以跟委員私下再說好 私下跟我說明來 部長我想請問你你今天對外講了說中國大陸中共如果封鎖台灣國際不會做事\n147701\t167987\t請問它現在封鎖沒有?迄今嗎?對,到現在為止如果按照國際法上的定義的話,它目前並沒有,因為封鎖是一個交戰的行動請問你那聯合力艦2020B算不算封鎖?算是一種操演,但沒有真的封鎖\n168792\t192134\t超遠封鎖,但是接近封鎖,不等於封鎖,是不是?」是這樣的意思?他自己發布這段,他就是一個罪有嘛,他自己在超遠那他並沒有畫射箭和禁航區,也沒有讓任何的載空機或者是載船來自由的進出我們的港口啊這兩天在平潭打飛彈是不是因應美加的軍艦經過我們這邊?\n194605\t220904\t你說他在平坦對平坦前幾天我們的瞭解就是一個例行性的演練那但是他不像這個例行性的演練把他故意宣傳然後作為一個心理威懾的一部分這樣子算不算因應我剛說過了因為美加不是軍艦經過我們這裡嗎我們的理解是這個是一個他例行性訓練的項目之一但是他把他就是有點要擴大作為一個\n223463\t246581\t製造對我們的一個心理威懾,算是在歷史以外從事一個認知戰嗎?應該是這樣的概念部長,你今天講的話,這裡面有很多的歧讀說如果封鎖台灣國際不會做事,你的言下之意是一封鎖我們就要靠人家救,自己沒辦法自救,是這個意思嗎?不是\n248325\t275948\t我們封鎖我剛剛已經講了如果是屬於國際法上的封鎖的話他是阻止所有國家基建進出我們管轄的港口、機場跟海岸線那這樣子的一個封鎖行為會被視為戰爭行為我們就會進入應急作戰階段我們所有的部隊我們的所有的武器裝備都會進入應急作戰階段應該有的部署位置我先問你一個很粗淺的一般老百姓很想知道的\n277236\t286409\t現在道路的步步進逼2024A再過來B慢慢一直把台灣越拉越緊的情況之下\n287813\t295174\t我們看到我們的因應除了你們在這裡講說都免驚啦都免驚啦講得好像感覺相關的單位我們的國軍只剩下打嘴砲而已啊或者是我們沒有說我們不用那個我一再的講我們要警惕這樣子的一個不是不是好好好我要強調是說怎麼會說他一直進逼然後我們嘴巴講而已沒辦法讓他不要進逼或者把他讓他退回去\n317899\t320242\t就是說A到B又往台灣進了我想辦法讓他退到A甚至於退得更前面\n325411\t343207\t這是中國的一種威權擴張中國在挑釁啊你要想辦法,你要讓人家知道我們國防預算一直增加我們不申告衝突,我們在克制我們只是向氣球維持現狀中國不認為維持現狀是可以接受的啊這個問題是出在中國不接受現狀的維持啊\n349853\t369631\t那我們不應該接受他一直往我們這裡面圍難道國防部不是這樣子嗎?不是這種態度嗎?所以我們就要用聯合情形戰爭的手段來綿密的監控他相關的所有的作為我們要掌控他的所有的一舉一動不管是航空的監控不夠啦你要想辦法讓他不進來嘛那我們有應處啊只是說沒有啊 沒有看到應處 什麼應處呢?\n372473\t392720\t我們要捍衛我們的領海、領空、領土這個部分就是我們的現在映出這個灰色地帶洗腦我們最必要的一個一個部分那我們就是要應對應對這樣子的請問你B有沒有比A更靠近台灣 有沒有\n393527\t418403\t他都沒有進入二次海裡對但是有靠近一點啊那不是沒有沒有進入二次海裡我們看圖都有那圖這樣畫問題是他沒有這樣的作為啊那他圖也沒有精緯度他自己就畫了圖然後看起來跨過二次海裡可是問題是他的操演一天結束在這一天當中他就沒有進入到我們的二次海裡不管是這個在空中的或是海面的啊\n418723\t442289\t所以你的意思是以後不管中國大陸中共他怎麼樣的演習我們都不要理他大家都不用怕是不是這個意思不是我從來沒有講過不是你從來沒有講過我們是這樣所以不用理他怎麼可以不用理他呢我們要戒慎恐懼面對這樣子的一個敵情日趨嚴峻威脅的一個狀況請問老百姓要做什麼心理解釋\n445512\t458044\t我覺得老百姓當然我們在推動全民防衛任性的目的就是在讓這個全民應該要有一個在團結之下要建立這樣的一個心防居然能夠思維\n460346\t479375\t你上次講了說40萬的民力不等於民兵可是你那個叫戰手冊裡面TEC、TEC就講到說最好的防禦就是把對方殺死那這個很好啊那這個不就是全民皆兵了嗎我想這個TEC應該是消防署是吧\n480583\t485770\t是哪一個?消防署吧?那這個應該是不是由消防署來回答?\n494638\t519351\t那個戰術手冊是我們因應不同的時間不同地點採取的不同救護方式你上面寫的說最好的防禦方式就是把對方殺死那不就全民皆兵了那個是在測驗的一個翻譯的那個題目就是那個訓練後的測驗的翻譯的題目翻譯喔對所以就講白了嘛就通通是美國叫我們做的嘛是不是就這個意思啦是不是\n523516\t538408\t沒有這是給舊戶同仁另外一個思考就是在不同的時間採取不同的因應作為好啦最後一個我時間到了不想拖太久了部長我請問你現在有沒有比520更緊張了台海的局勢有沒有我認為中國一直是採取這樣子的一種對我們\n548584\t575723\t在周遭進行這樣子一個演訓的相關的作為那這些相關的作為他不會因為任何在任何的情況之下他會找任何的理由或任何的藉口然後來持續的來進行這樣的一個挑釁的作為那我們國人當然都要團結那國軍得要借勝一對川普這個最近的民調不錯看起來有機會說不定選贏了說不定的不知道\n577537\t581458\t但是他5月份的時候講了一句話說中共如果入侵台灣要轟炸北京結果現在救他現在說要制裁他要關稅扣150%到200%到底的做法就是跟對烏克蘭一樣制裁俄羅斯然後也不幫俄國人打仗要給武器對台灣是幾乎完全一樣你怎麼看川普這樣講法\n607489\t631071\t我想美國迄今為止我只能夠說美國迄今為止仍然維持一個戰略模糊的政策這個戰略模糊的一個政策意思就是說你不能夠排除他可能出兵你也不可能排除他不出兵也就是他維持一個戰略模糊的一個然後藉此來進行一個嚇阻那我想這是迄今為止美國政府的一個態度\n631493\t635240\t他的美國都戰略模糊了我們的外交官還戰略這麼清楚那請問我們要不要戰略模糊\n639724\t662086\t我們是守勢的一方,我們要的就是說如何拒止這個中國可能的一個全面侵犯然後讓一旦發生這個全面侵犯,我們讓它全面侵犯能夠失敗我們要很具體吧,我們戰略不能模糊,我們要戰略清楚你懂不懂我講的,不能讓它愈來愈雷齒,一步就是這樣\n663649\t678829\t我們的戰術戰略要很清楚啊對在平時我們應付灰色地帶的洗澡就是要捍衛我們的領土領空領海那如果說有那在暫時的話就是讓他的這個清台的行動失敗這是我們非常清楚的一個戰略\n680091\t700337\t所以我們是戰略清楚美國是戰略模糊是這個樣子嗎我該不該這樣講我們沒有要採取這個之前已經講我們沒有要反攻大陸我們就是守勢作戰的一方只有他我們要隨時戒備他任何可能對我們的作為我們的\n703678\t709341\t很清楚的就是我們希望能夠維持現狀時間到了我最後一句話你今天各大媒體講的那一句話其實外界的解讀是國防部長顧立雄說如果被封鎖就是國際不會做事言下之意就是我們沒有人力突破他的封鎖就這個意思我不是這個意思不是喔就這樣就不用國際的啊我們自己都可以突破還要國際\n733011\t733272\t阿諾 阿諾 阿諾 阿諾 阿諾 阿諾 阿諾 阿諾\n741618\t765348\t他封鎖請問你他封鎖我們有沒有能力突破封鎖我們有沒有能力我們要我們要應用我們所有的這個防衛的力量來確保我們這個國土的安全你現在連講的就這麼沒信心你應該很大聲的講我們絕對有人力突破封鎖再等到外面的來更好這樣是不是這種答案不是更漂亮\n768634\t785582\t我已經講過了沒有講沒有聽清楚封鎖這個階段就已經進入了我們應急作戰的階段我們就要準備好應對這樣子的一個交戰的做法沒有回答問題憑著中華民國的國軍能不能突破封鎖問你這句話啦可以不可以啦\n786482\t803310\t我們能夠做這個相關的因應的一個作為然後讓他的這個封鎖的這個行動會不成功那我們這就是我們應該要做的事情那就是解讀說可以突破封鎖那你快點啊 簡單一點 聽得懂嗎你說一堆人聽不懂可以突破封鎖那你聽得懂嗎 可以嗎我們 呃 會來 呃 救他的這個不敢說 奇怪的 這麼沒信心我已經在做事給你了 不敢接 你看\n817353\t830987\t你說完全贊成賴文獎的,絕對有人力突破就好了,我說不是你說的,不是很好我個人認為要封鎖沒有那麼簡單,我們也有能力力來保衛我們的國土然後來進行這個反封鎖相關的作為這不等於突破封鎖,不等於突破封鎖\n836280\t844384\t這等於通過封鎖啦對不起我能不能請教一下委員認為什麼叫做突破封鎖他把你封鎖就把你圍起來啊突破就是要出去啊這治理行業就這麼簡單的事情這個沒什麼大的學問啊這需要什麼學問那我們有相關的反封鎖的這個規劃跟作為剛才這裡也沒有辦法沒有規劃啦 有人力就好了啦\n859231\t868778\t我想我們也應該要有具備這樣的一個反封鎖的能力不要再說了 說得急急的 國防部長你這樣弄我們有信心嘛你今天回答我們都沒有信心去本來我們都辯護\n","txt":"謝謝主席及各位先進有請國防部的顧部長請顧部長是,賴委員部長辛苦了齁前面有委員問到我想我再要確定一下就是我們現在國軍用的戰備的參核這是不是確定了這個加熱的部分\n是怎麼樣?最後確定是用什麼樣的版本?是40塊到50塊的簡易還是用240塊的六分兩數的?報告 簡單跟您報告一下三樣東西都有被變第一個是加熱式餐盒第二個是口糧第三個是我們的所謂的即食包也就是在一般便利商店我們可以看到的一個就是直接拆開的即食包請問你這個準備多少?這三樣各準備多少?\n我可以私下跟委員報告因為這個準備的天數它是屬於比較機密的機密嗎是確定是機密不同不同這個我們農業部都講了我們的戰備儲糧準備6個月7個月什麼6個月委員分成兩部分農業部都講了你有什麼機密可以講我是覺得奇怪的這個農業部的準備有了經濟部會講了這個\n委員我所謂的經濟的部分是指的是說它的個別的天數我可以跟委員報告全部來全部來維持30日以上冷凍食品都是在7日以上的冷凍食品7日然後30日價格怎麼樣價格\n價格的話就是加熱式的比較貴一點它就在240塊左右然後口糧的部分比較便宜口糧部分大概在90塊左右那剩下來的調理包的部分就跟一般市售的一樣大概在40、50塊左右\n所以大家可以大概分得清楚了冷凍的7天其他的30天以上以上到哪裡不知道就這個意思是不是對 詳細的因為牽扯到人數的問題所以跟委員私下再說好 私下跟我說明來 部長我想請問你你今天對外講了說中國大陸中共如果封鎖台灣國際不會做事\n請問它現在封鎖沒有?迄今嗎?對,到現在為止如果按照國際法上的定義的話,它目前並沒有,因為封鎖是一個交戰的行動請問你那聯合力艦2020B算不算封鎖?算是一種操演,但沒有真的封鎖\n超遠封鎖,但是接近封鎖,不等於封鎖,是不是?」是這樣的意思?他自己發布這段,他就是一個罪有嘛,他自己在超遠那他並沒有畫射箭和禁航區,也沒有讓任何的載空機或者是載船來自由的進出我們的港口啊這兩天在平潭打飛彈是不是因應美加的軍艦經過我們這邊?\n你說他在平坦對平坦前幾天我們的瞭解就是一個例行性的演練那但是他不像這個例行性的演練把他故意宣傳然後作為一個心理威懾的一部分這樣子算不算因應我剛說過了因為美加不是軍艦經過我們這裡嗎我們的理解是這個是一個他例行性訓練的項目之一但是他把他就是有點要擴大作為一個\n製造對我們的一個心理威懾,算是在歷史以外從事一個認知戰嗎?應該是這樣的概念部長,你今天講的話,這裡面有很多的歧讀說如果封鎖台灣國際不會做事,你的言下之意是一封鎖我們就要靠人家救,自己沒辦法自救,是這個意思嗎?不是\n我們封鎖我剛剛已經講了如果是屬於國際法上的封鎖的話他是阻止所有國家基建進出我們管轄的港口、機場跟海岸線那這樣子的一個封鎖行為會被視為戰爭行為我們就會進入應急作戰階段我們所有的部隊我們的所有的武器裝備都會進入應急作戰階段應該有的部署位置我先問你一個很粗淺的一般老百姓很想知道的\n現在道路的步步進逼2024A再過來B慢慢一直把台灣越拉越緊的情況之下\n我們看到我們的因應除了你們在這裡講說都免驚啦都免驚啦講得好像感覺相關的單位我們的國軍只剩下打嘴砲而已啊或者是我們沒有說我們不用那個我一再的講我們要警惕這樣子的一個不是不是好好好我要強調是說怎麼會說他一直進逼然後我們嘴巴講而已沒辦法讓他不要進逼或者把他讓他退回去\n就是說A到B又往台灣進了我想辦法讓他退到A甚至於退得更前面\n這是中國的一種威權擴張中國在挑釁啊你要想辦法,你要讓人家知道我們國防預算一直增加我們不申告衝突,我們在克制我們只是向氣球維持現狀中國不認為維持現狀是可以接受的啊這個問題是出在中國不接受現狀的維持啊\n那我們不應該接受他一直往我們這裡面圍難道國防部不是這樣子嗎?不是這種態度嗎?所以我們就要用聯合情形戰爭的手段來綿密的監控他相關的所有的作為我們要掌控他的所有的一舉一動不管是航空的監控不夠啦你要想辦法讓他不進來嘛那我們有應處啊只是說沒有啊 沒有看到應處 什麼應處呢?\n我們要捍衛我們的領海、領空、領土這個部分就是我們的現在映出這個灰色地帶洗腦我們最必要的一個一個部分那我們就是要應對應對這樣子的請問你B有沒有比A更靠近台灣 有沒有\n他都沒有進入二次海裡對但是有靠近一點啊那不是沒有沒有進入二次海裡我們看圖都有那圖這樣畫問題是他沒有這樣的作為啊那他圖也沒有精緯度他自己就畫了圖然後看起來跨過二次海裡可是問題是他的操演一天結束在這一天當中他就沒有進入到我們的二次海裡不管是這個在空中的或是海面的啊\n所以你的意思是以後不管中國大陸中共他怎麼樣的演習我們都不要理他大家都不用怕是不是這個意思不是我從來沒有講過不是你從來沒有講過我們是這樣所以不用理他怎麼可以不用理他呢我們要戒慎恐懼面對這樣子的一個敵情日趨嚴峻威脅的一個狀況請問老百姓要做什麼心理解釋\n我覺得老百姓當然我們在推動全民防衛任性的目的就是在讓這個全民應該要有一個在團結之下要建立這樣的一個心防居然能夠思維\n你上次講了說40萬的民力不等於民兵可是你那個叫戰手冊裡面TEC、TEC就講到說最好的防禦就是把對方殺死那這個很好啊那這個不就是全民皆兵了嗎我想這個TEC應該是消防署是吧\n是哪一個?消防署吧?那這個應該是不是由消防署來回答?\n那個戰術手冊是我們因應不同的時間不同地點採取的不同救護方式你上面寫的說最好的防禦方式就是把對方殺死那不就全民皆兵了那個是在測驗的一個翻譯的那個題目就是那個訓練後的測驗的翻譯的題目翻譯喔對所以就講白了嘛就通通是美國叫我們做的嘛是不是就這個意思啦是不是\n沒有這是給舊戶同仁另外一個思考就是在不同的時間採取不同的因應作為好啦最後一個我時間到了不想拖太久了部長我請問你現在有沒有比520更緊張了台海的局勢有沒有我認為中國一直是採取這樣子的一種對我們\n在周遭進行這樣子一個演訓的相關的作為那這些相關的作為他不會因為任何在任何的情況之下他會找任何的理由或任何的藉口然後來持續的來進行這樣的一個挑釁的作為那我們國人當然都要團結那國軍得要借勝一對川普這個最近的民調不錯看起來有機會說不定選贏了說不定的不知道\n但是他5月份的時候講了一句話說中共如果入侵台灣要轟炸北京結果現在救他現在說要制裁他要關稅扣150%到200%到底的做法就是跟對烏克蘭一樣制裁俄羅斯然後也不幫俄國人打仗要給武器對台灣是幾乎完全一樣你怎麼看川普這樣講法\n我想美國迄今為止我只能夠說美國迄今為止仍然維持一個戰略模糊的政策這個戰略模糊的一個政策意思就是說你不能夠排除他可能出兵你也不可能排除他不出兵也就是他維持一個戰略模糊的一個然後藉此來進行一個嚇阻那我想這是迄今為止美國政府的一個態度\n他的美國都戰略模糊了我們的外交官還戰略這麼清楚那請問我們要不要戰略模糊\n我們是守勢的一方,我們要的就是說如何拒止這個中國可能的一個全面侵犯然後讓一旦發生這個全面侵犯,我們讓它全面侵犯能夠失敗我們要很具體吧,我們戰略不能模糊,我們要戰略清楚你懂不懂我講的,不能讓它愈來愈雷齒,一步就是這樣\n我們的戰術戰略要很清楚啊對在平時我們應付灰色地帶的洗澡就是要捍衛我們的領土領空領海那如果說有那在暫時的話就是讓他的這個清台的行動失敗這是我們非常清楚的一個戰略\n所以我們是戰略清楚美國是戰略模糊是這個樣子嗎我該不該這樣講我們沒有要採取這個之前已經講我們沒有要反攻大陸我們就是守勢作戰的一方只有他我們要隨時戒備他任何可能對我們的作為我們的\n很清楚的就是我們希望能夠維持現狀時間到了我最後一句話你今天各大媒體講的那一句話其實外界的解讀是國防部長顧立雄說如果被封鎖就是國際不會做事言下之意就是我們沒有人力突破他的封鎖就這個意思我不是這個意思不是喔就這樣就不用國際的啊我們自己都可以突破還要國際\n阿諾 阿諾 阿諾 阿諾 阿諾 阿諾 阿諾 阿諾\n他封鎖請問你他封鎖我們有沒有能力突破封鎖我們有沒有能力我們要我們要應用我們所有的這個防衛的力量來確保我們這個國土的安全你現在連講的就這麼沒信心你應該很大聲的講我們絕對有人力突破封鎖再等到外面的來更好這樣是不是這種答案不是更漂亮\n我已經講過了沒有講沒有聽清楚封鎖這個階段就已經進入了我們應急作戰的階段我們就要準備好應對這樣子的一個交戰的做法沒有回答問題憑著中華民國的國軍能不能突破封鎖問你這句話啦可以不可以啦\n我們能夠做這個相關的因應的一個作為然後讓他的這個封鎖的這個行動會不成功那我們這就是我們應該要做的事情那就是解讀說可以突破封鎖那你快點啊 簡單一點 聽得懂嗎你說一堆人聽不懂可以突破封鎖那你聽得懂嗎 可以嗎我們 呃 會來 呃 救他的這個不敢說 奇怪的 這麼沒信心我已經在做事給你了 不敢接 你看\n你說完全贊成賴文獎的,絕對有人力突破就好了,我說不是你說的,不是很好我個人認為要封鎖沒有那麼簡單,我們也有能力力來保衛我們的國土然後來進行這個反封鎖相關的作為這不等於突破封鎖,不等於突破封鎖\n這等於通過封鎖啦對不起我能不能請教一下委員認為什麼叫做突破封鎖他把你封鎖就把你圍起來啊突破就是要出去啊這治理行業就這麼簡單的事情這個沒什麼大的學問啊這需要什麼學問那我們有相關的反封鎖的這個規劃跟作為剛才這裡也沒有辦法沒有規劃啦 有人力就好了啦\n我想我們也應該要有具備這樣的一個反封鎖的能力不要再說了 說得急急的 國防部長你這樣弄我們有信心嘛你今天回答我們都沒有信心去本來我們都辯護\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.789 --> 00:05.131\n謝謝主席及各位先進有請國防部的顧部長請顧部長是,賴委員部長辛苦了齁前面有委員問到我想我再要確定一下就是我們現在國軍用的戰備的參核這是不是確定了這個加熱的部分\n\n00:29.513 --> 00:56.532\n是怎麼樣?最後確定是用什麼樣的版本?是40塊到50塊的簡易還是用240塊的六分兩數的?報告簡單跟您報告一下三樣東西都有被變第一個是加熱式餐盒第二個是口糧第三個是我們的所謂的即食包也就是在一般便利商店我們可以看到的一個就是直接拆開的即食包請問你這個準備多少?這三樣各準備多少?\n\n00:57.621 --> 01:11.966\n我可以私下跟委員報告因為這個準備的天數它是屬於比較機密的機密嗎是確定是機密不同不同這個我們農業部都講了我們的戰備儲糧準備6個月7個月什麼6個月委員分成兩部分農業部都講了你有什麼機密可以講我是覺得奇怪的這個農業部的準備有了經濟部會講了這個\n\n01:23.806 --> 01:39.928\n委員我所謂的經濟的部分是指的是說它的個別的天數我可以跟委員報告全部來全部來維持30日以上冷凍食品都是在7日以上的冷凍食品7日然後30日價格怎麼樣價格\n\n01:42.040 --> 01:56.127\n價格的話就是加熱式的比較貴一點它就在240塊左右然後口糧的部分比較便宜口糧部分大概在90塊左右那剩下來的調理包的部分就跟一般市售的一樣大概在40、50塊左右\n\n01:58.150 --> 02:14.464\n所以大家可以大概分得清楚了冷凍的7天其他的30天以上以上到哪裡不知道就這個意思是不是對詳細的因為牽扯到人數的問題所以跟委員私下再說好私下跟我說明來部長我想請問你你今天對外講了說中國大陸中共如果封鎖台灣國際不會做事\n\n02:27.701 --> 02:47.987\n請問它現在封鎖沒有?迄今嗎?對,到現在為止如果按照國際法上的定義的話,它目前並沒有,因為封鎖是一個交戰的行動請問你那聯合力艦2020B算不算封鎖?算是一種操演,但沒有真的封鎖\n\n02:48.792 --> 03:12.134\n超遠封鎖,但是接近封鎖,不等於封鎖,是不是?」是這樣的意思?他自己發布這段,他就是一個罪有嘛,他自己在超遠那他並沒有畫射箭和禁航區,也沒有讓任何的載空機或者是載船來自由的進出我們的港口啊這兩天在平潭打飛彈是不是因應美加的軍艦經過我們這邊?\n\n03:14.605 --> 03:40.904\n你說他在平坦對平坦前幾天我們的瞭解就是一個例行性的演練那但是他不像這個例行性的演練把他故意宣傳然後作為一個心理威懾的一部分這樣子算不算因應我剛說過了因為美加不是軍艦經過我們這裡嗎我們的理解是這個是一個他例行性訓練的項目之一但是他把他就是有點要擴大作為一個\n\n03:43.463 --> 04:06.581\n製造對我們的一個心理威懾,算是在歷史以外從事一個認知戰嗎?應該是這樣的概念部長,你今天講的話,這裡面有很多的歧讀說如果封鎖台灣國際不會做事,你的言下之意是一封鎖我們就要靠人家救,自己沒辦法自救,是這個意思嗎?不是\n\n04:08.325 --> 04:35.948\n我們封鎖我剛剛已經講了如果是屬於國際法上的封鎖的話他是阻止所有國家基建進出我們管轄的港口、機場跟海岸線那這樣子的一個封鎖行為會被視為戰爭行為我們就會進入應急作戰階段我們所有的部隊我們的所有的武器裝備都會進入應急作戰階段應該有的部署位置我先問你一個很粗淺的一般老百姓很想知道的\n\n04:37.236 --> 04:46.409\n現在道路的步步進逼2024A再過來B慢慢一直把台灣越拉越緊的情況之下\n\n04:47.813 --> 04:55.174\n我們看到我們的因應除了你們在這裡講說都免驚啦都免驚啦講得好像感覺相關的單位我們的國軍只剩下打嘴砲而已啊或者是我們沒有說我們不用那個我一再的講我們要警惕這樣子的一個不是不是好好好我要強調是說怎麼會說他一直進逼然後我們嘴巴講而已沒辦法讓他不要進逼或者把他讓他退回去\n\n05:17.899 --> 05:20.242\n就是說A到B又往台灣進了我想辦法讓他退到A甚至於退得更前面\n\n05:25.411 --> 05:43.207\n這是中國的一種威權擴張中國在挑釁啊你要想辦法,你要讓人家知道我們國防預算一直增加我們不申告衝突,我們在克制我們只是向氣球維持現狀中國不認為維持現狀是可以接受的啊這個問題是出在中國不接受現狀的維持啊\n\n05:49.853 --> 06:09.631\n那我們不應該接受他一直往我們這裡面圍難道國防部不是這樣子嗎?不是這種態度嗎?所以我們就要用聯合情形戰爭的手段來綿密的監控他相關的所有的作為我們要掌控他的所有的一舉一動不管是航空的監控不夠啦你要想辦法讓他不進來嘛那我們有應處啊只是說沒有啊沒有看到應處什麼應處呢?\n\n06:12.473 --> 06:32.720\n我們要捍衛我們的領海、領空、領土這個部分就是我們的現在映出這個灰色地帶洗腦我們最必要的一個一個部分那我們就是要應對應對這樣子的請問你B有沒有比A更靠近台灣有沒有\n\n06:33.527 --> 06:58.403\n他都沒有進入二次海裡對但是有靠近一點啊那不是沒有沒有進入二次海裡我們看圖都有那圖這樣畫問題是他沒有這樣的作為啊那他圖也沒有精緯度他自己就畫了圖然後看起來跨過二次海裡可是問題是他的操演一天結束在這一天當中他就沒有進入到我們的二次海裡不管是這個在空中的或是海面的啊\n\n06:58.723 --> 07:22.289\n所以你的意思是以後不管中國大陸中共他怎麼樣的演習我們都不要理他大家都不用怕是不是這個意思不是我從來沒有講過不是你從來沒有講過我們是這樣所以不用理他怎麼可以不用理他呢我們要戒慎恐懼面對這樣子的一個敵情日趨嚴峻威脅的一個狀況請問老百姓要做什麼心理解釋\n\n07:25.512 --> 07:38.044\n我覺得老百姓當然我們在推動全民防衛任性的目的就是在讓這個全民應該要有一個在團結之下要建立這樣的一個心防居然能夠思維\n\n07:40.346 --> 07:59.375\n你上次講了說40萬的民力不等於民兵可是你那個叫戰手冊裡面TEC、TEC就講到說最好的防禦就是把對方殺死那這個很好啊那這個不就是全民皆兵了嗎我想這個TEC應該是消防署是吧\n\n08:00.583 --> 08:05.770\n是哪一個?消防署吧?那這個應該是不是由消防署來回答?\n\n08:14.638 --> 08:39.351\n那個戰術手冊是我們因應不同的時間不同地點採取的不同救護方式你上面寫的說最好的防禦方式就是把對方殺死那不就全民皆兵了那個是在測驗的一個翻譯的那個題目就是那個訓練後的測驗的翻譯的題目翻譯喔對所以就講白了嘛就通通是美國叫我們做的嘛是不是就這個意思啦是不是\n\n08:43.516 --> 08:58.408\n沒有這是給舊戶同仁另外一個思考就是在不同的時間採取不同的因應作為好啦最後一個我時間到了不想拖太久了部長我請問你現在有沒有比520更緊張了台海的局勢有沒有我認為中國一直是採取這樣子的一種對我們\n\n09:08.584 --> 09:35.723\n在周遭進行這樣子一個演訓的相關的作為那這些相關的作為他不會因為任何在任何的情況之下他會找任何的理由或任何的藉口然後來持續的來進行這樣的一個挑釁的作為那我們國人當然都要團結那國軍得要借勝一對川普這個最近的民調不錯看起來有機會說不定選贏了說不定的不知道\n\n09:37.537 --> 09:41.458\n但是他5月份的時候講了一句話說中共如果入侵台灣要轟炸北京結果現在救他現在說要制裁他要關稅扣150%到200%到底的做法就是跟對烏克蘭一樣制裁俄羅斯然後也不幫俄國人打仗要給武器對台灣是幾乎完全一樣你怎麼看川普這樣講法\n\n10:07.489 --> 10:31.071\n我想美國迄今為止我只能夠說美國迄今為止仍然維持一個戰略模糊的政策這個戰略模糊的一個政策意思就是說你不能夠排除他可能出兵你也不可能排除他不出兵也就是他維持一個戰略模糊的一個然後藉此來進行一個嚇阻那我想這是迄今為止美國政府的一個態度\n\n10:31.493 --> 10:35.240\n他的美國都戰略模糊了我們的外交官還戰略這麼清楚那請問我們要不要戰略模糊\n\n10:39.724 --> 11:02.086\n我們是守勢的一方,我們要的就是說如何拒止這個中國可能的一個全面侵犯然後讓一旦發生這個全面侵犯,我們讓它全面侵犯能夠失敗我們要很具體吧,我們戰略不能模糊,我們要戰略清楚你懂不懂我講的,不能讓它愈來愈雷齒,一步就是這樣\n\n11:03.649 --> 11:18.829\n我們的戰術戰略要很清楚啊對在平時我們應付灰色地帶的洗澡就是要捍衛我們的領土領空領海那如果說有那在暫時的話就是讓他的這個清台的行動失敗這是我們非常清楚的一個戰略\n\n11:20.091 --> 11:40.337\n所以我們是戰略清楚美國是戰略模糊是這個樣子嗎我該不該這樣講我們沒有要採取這個之前已經講我們沒有要反攻大陸我們就是守勢作戰的一方只有他我們要隨時戒備他任何可能對我們的作為我們的\n\n11:43.678 --> 11:49.341\n很清楚的就是我們希望能夠維持現狀時間到了我最後一句話你今天各大媒體講的那一句話其實外界的解讀是國防部長顧立雄說如果被封鎖就是國際不會做事言下之意就是我們沒有人力突破他的封鎖就這個意思我不是這個意思不是喔就這樣就不用國際的啊我們自己都可以突破還要國際\n\n12:13.011 --> 12:13.272\n阿諾阿諾阿諾阿諾阿諾阿諾阿諾阿諾\n\n12:21.618 --> 12:45.348\n他封鎖請問你他封鎖我們有沒有能力突破封鎖我們有沒有能力我們要我們要應用我們所有的這個防衛的力量來確保我們這個國土的安全你現在連講的就這麼沒信心你應該很大聲的講我們絕對有人力突破封鎖再等到外面的來更好這樣是不是這種答案不是更漂亮\n\n12:48.634 --> 13:05.582\n我已經講過了沒有講沒有聽清楚封鎖這個階段就已經進入了我們應急作戰的階段我們就要準備好應對這樣子的一個交戰的做法沒有回答問題憑著中華民國的國軍能不能突破封鎖問你這句話啦可以不可以啦\n\n13:06.482 --> 13:23.310\n我們能夠做這個相關的因應的一個作為然後讓他的這個封鎖的這個行動會不成功那我們這就是我們應該要做的事情那就是解讀說可以突破封鎖那你快點啊簡單一點聽得懂嗎你說一堆人聽不懂可以突破封鎖那你聽得懂嗎可以嗎我們呃會來呃救他的這個不敢說奇怪的這麼沒信心我已經在做事給你了不敢接你看\n\n13:37.353 --> 13:50.987\n你說完全贊成賴文獎的,絕對有人力突破就好了,我說不是你說的,不是很好我個人認為要封鎖沒有那麼簡單,我們也有能力力來保衛我們的國土然後來進行這個反封鎖相關的作為這不等於突破封鎖,不等於突破封鎖\n\n13:56.280 --> 14:04.384\n這等於通過封鎖啦對不起我能不能請教一下委員認為什麼叫做突破封鎖他把你封鎖就把你圍起來啊突破就是要出去啊這治理行業就這麼簡單的事情這個沒什麼大的學問啊這需要什麼學問那我們有相關的反封鎖的這個規劃跟作為剛才這裡也沒有辦法沒有規劃啦有人力就好了啦\n\n14:19.231 --> 14:28.778\n我想我們也應該要有具備這樣的一個反封鎖的能力不要再說了說得急急的國防部長你這樣弄我們有信心嘛你今天回答我們都沒有信心去本來我們都辯護\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.789,"end":5.131,"text":"謝謝主席及各位先進有請國防部的顧部長請顧部長是,賴委員部長辛苦了齁前面有委員問到我想我再要確定一下就是我們現在國軍用的戰備的參核這是不是確定了這個加熱的部分"},{"start":29.513,"end":56.532,"text":"是怎麼樣?最後確定是用什麼樣的版本?是40塊到50塊的簡易還是用240塊的六分兩數的?報告 簡單跟您報告一下三樣東西都有被變第一個是加熱式餐盒第二個是口糧第三個是我們的所謂的即食包也就是在一般便利商店我們可以看到的一個就是直接拆開的即食包請問你這個準備多少?這三樣各準備多少?"},{"start":57.621,"end":71.966,"text":"我可以私下跟委員報告因為這個準備的天數它是屬於比較機密的機密嗎是確定是機密不同不同這個我們農業部都講了我們的戰備儲糧準備6個月7個月什麼6個月委員分成兩部分農業部都講了你有什麼機密可以講我是覺得奇怪的這個農業部的準備有了經濟部會講了這個"},{"start":83.806,"end":99.928,"text":"委員我所謂的經濟的部分是指的是說它的個別的天數我可以跟委員報告全部來全部來維持30日以上冷凍食品都是在7日以上的冷凍食品7日然後30日價格怎麼樣價格"},{"start":102.04,"end":116.127,"text":"價格的話就是加熱式的比較貴一點它就在240塊左右然後口糧的部分比較便宜口糧部分大概在90塊左右那剩下來的調理包的部分就跟一般市售的一樣大概在40、50塊左右"},{"start":118.15,"end":134.464,"text":"所以大家可以大概分得清楚了冷凍的7天其他的30天以上以上到哪裡不知道就這個意思是不是對 詳細的因為牽扯到人數的問題所以跟委員私下再說好 私下跟我說明來 部長我想請問你你今天對外講了說中國大陸中共如果封鎖台灣國際不會做事"},{"start":147.701,"end":167.987,"text":"請問它現在封鎖沒有?迄今嗎?對,到現在為止如果按照國際法上的定義的話,它目前並沒有,因為封鎖是一個交戰的行動請問你那聯合力艦2020B算不算封鎖?算是一種操演,但沒有真的封鎖"},{"start":168.792,"end":192.134,"text":"超遠封鎖,但是接近封鎖,不等於封鎖,是不是?」是這樣的意思?他自己發布這段,他就是一個罪有嘛,他自己在超遠那他並沒有畫射箭和禁航區,也沒有讓任何的載空機或者是載船來自由的進出我們的港口啊這兩天在平潭打飛彈是不是因應美加的軍艦經過我們這邊?"},{"start":194.605,"end":220.904,"text":"你說他在平坦對平坦前幾天我們的瞭解就是一個例行性的演練那但是他不像這個例行性的演練把他故意宣傳然後作為一個心理威懾的一部分這樣子算不算因應我剛說過了因為美加不是軍艦經過我們這裡嗎我們的理解是這個是一個他例行性訓練的項目之一但是他把他就是有點要擴大作為一個"},{"start":223.463,"end":246.581,"text":"製造對我們的一個心理威懾,算是在歷史以外從事一個認知戰嗎?應該是這樣的概念部長,你今天講的話,這裡面有很多的歧讀說如果封鎖台灣國際不會做事,你的言下之意是一封鎖我們就要靠人家救,自己沒辦法自救,是這個意思嗎?不是"},{"start":248.325,"end":275.948,"text":"我們封鎖我剛剛已經講了如果是屬於國際法上的封鎖的話他是阻止所有國家基建進出我們管轄的港口、機場跟海岸線那這樣子的一個封鎖行為會被視為戰爭行為我們就會進入應急作戰階段我們所有的部隊我們的所有的武器裝備都會進入應急作戰階段應該有的部署位置我先問你一個很粗淺的一般老百姓很想知道的"},{"start":277.236,"end":286.409,"text":"現在道路的步步進逼2024A再過來B慢慢一直把台灣越拉越緊的情況之下"},{"start":287.813,"end":295.174,"text":"我們看到我們的因應除了你們在這裡講說都免驚啦都免驚啦講得好像感覺相關的單位我們的國軍只剩下打嘴砲而已啊或者是我們沒有說我們不用那個我一再的講我們要警惕這樣子的一個不是不是好好好我要強調是說怎麼會說他一直進逼然後我們嘴巴講而已沒辦法讓他不要進逼或者把他讓他退回去"},{"start":317.899,"end":320.242,"text":"就是說A到B又往台灣進了我想辦法讓他退到A甚至於退得更前面"},{"start":325.411,"end":343.207,"text":"這是中國的一種威權擴張中國在挑釁啊你要想辦法,你要讓人家知道我們國防預算一直增加我們不申告衝突,我們在克制我們只是向氣球維持現狀中國不認為維持現狀是可以接受的啊這個問題是出在中國不接受現狀的維持啊"},{"start":349.853,"end":369.631,"text":"那我們不應該接受他一直往我們這裡面圍難道國防部不是這樣子嗎?不是這種態度嗎?所以我們就要用聯合情形戰爭的手段來綿密的監控他相關的所有的作為我們要掌控他的所有的一舉一動不管是航空的監控不夠啦你要想辦法讓他不進來嘛那我們有應處啊只是說沒有啊 沒有看到應處 什麼應處呢?"},{"start":372.473,"end":392.72,"text":"我們要捍衛我們的領海、領空、領土這個部分就是我們的現在映出這個灰色地帶洗腦我們最必要的一個一個部分那我們就是要應對應對這樣子的請問你B有沒有比A更靠近台灣 有沒有"},{"start":393.527,"end":418.403,"text":"他都沒有進入二次海裡對但是有靠近一點啊那不是沒有沒有進入二次海裡我們看圖都有那圖這樣畫問題是他沒有這樣的作為啊那他圖也沒有精緯度他自己就畫了圖然後看起來跨過二次海裡可是問題是他的操演一天結束在這一天當中他就沒有進入到我們的二次海裡不管是這個在空中的或是海面的啊"},{"start":418.723,"end":442.289,"text":"所以你的意思是以後不管中國大陸中共他怎麼樣的演習我們都不要理他大家都不用怕是不是這個意思不是我從來沒有講過不是你從來沒有講過我們是這樣所以不用理他怎麼可以不用理他呢我們要戒慎恐懼面對這樣子的一個敵情日趨嚴峻威脅的一個狀況請問老百姓要做什麼心理解釋"},{"start":445.512,"end":458.044,"text":"我覺得老百姓當然我們在推動全民防衛任性的目的就是在讓這個全民應該要有一個在團結之下要建立這樣的一個心防居然能夠思維"},{"start":460.346,"end":479.375,"text":"你上次講了說40萬的民力不等於民兵可是你那個叫戰手冊裡面TEC、TEC就講到說最好的防禦就是把對方殺死那這個很好啊那這個不就是全民皆兵了嗎我想這個TEC應該是消防署是吧"},{"start":480.583,"end":485.77,"text":"是哪一個?消防署吧?那這個應該是不是由消防署來回答?"},{"start":494.638,"end":519.351,"text":"那個戰術手冊是我們因應不同的時間不同地點採取的不同救護方式你上面寫的說最好的防禦方式就是把對方殺死那不就全民皆兵了那個是在測驗的一個翻譯的那個題目就是那個訓練後的測驗的翻譯的題目翻譯喔對所以就講白了嘛就通通是美國叫我們做的嘛是不是就這個意思啦是不是"},{"start":523.516,"end":538.408,"text":"沒有這是給舊戶同仁另外一個思考就是在不同的時間採取不同的因應作為好啦最後一個我時間到了不想拖太久了部長我請問你現在有沒有比520更緊張了台海的局勢有沒有我認為中國一直是採取這樣子的一種對我們"},{"start":548.584,"end":575.723,"text":"在周遭進行這樣子一個演訓的相關的作為那這些相關的作為他不會因為任何在任何的情況之下他會找任何的理由或任何的藉口然後來持續的來進行這樣的一個挑釁的作為那我們國人當然都要團結那國軍得要借勝一對川普這個最近的民調不錯看起來有機會說不定選贏了說不定的不知道"},{"start":577.537,"end":581.458,"text":"但是他5月份的時候講了一句話說中共如果入侵台灣要轟炸北京結果現在救他現在說要制裁他要關稅扣150%到200%到底的做法就是跟對烏克蘭一樣制裁俄羅斯然後也不幫俄國人打仗要給武器對台灣是幾乎完全一樣你怎麼看川普這樣講法"},{"start":607.489,"end":631.071,"text":"我想美國迄今為止我只能夠說美國迄今為止仍然維持一個戰略模糊的政策這個戰略模糊的一個政策意思就是說你不能夠排除他可能出兵你也不可能排除他不出兵也就是他維持一個戰略模糊的一個然後藉此來進行一個嚇阻那我想這是迄今為止美國政府的一個態度"},{"start":631.493,"end":635.24,"text":"他的美國都戰略模糊了我們的外交官還戰略這麼清楚那請問我們要不要戰略模糊"},{"start":639.724,"end":662.086,"text":"我們是守勢的一方,我們要的就是說如何拒止這個中國可能的一個全面侵犯然後讓一旦發生這個全面侵犯,我們讓它全面侵犯能夠失敗我們要很具體吧,我們戰略不能模糊,我們要戰略清楚你懂不懂我講的,不能讓它愈來愈雷齒,一步就是這樣"},{"start":663.649,"end":678.829,"text":"我們的戰術戰略要很清楚啊對在平時我們應付灰色地帶的洗澡就是要捍衛我們的領土領空領海那如果說有那在暫時的話就是讓他的這個清台的行動失敗這是我們非常清楚的一個戰略"},{"start":680.091,"end":700.337,"text":"所以我們是戰略清楚美國是戰略模糊是這個樣子嗎我該不該這樣講我們沒有要採取這個之前已經講我們沒有要反攻大陸我們就是守勢作戰的一方只有他我們要隨時戒備他任何可能對我們的作為我們的"},{"start":703.678,"end":709.341,"text":"很清楚的就是我們希望能夠維持現狀時間到了我最後一句話你今天各大媒體講的那一句話其實外界的解讀是國防部長顧立雄說如果被封鎖就是國際不會做事言下之意就是我們沒有人力突破他的封鎖就這個意思我不是這個意思不是喔就這樣就不用國際的啊我們自己都可以突破還要國際"},{"start":733.011,"end":733.272,"text":"阿諾 阿諾 阿諾 阿諾 阿諾 阿諾 阿諾 阿諾"},{"start":741.618,"end":765.348,"text":"他封鎖請問你他封鎖我們有沒有能力突破封鎖我們有沒有能力我們要我們要應用我們所有的這個防衛的力量來確保我們這個國土的安全你現在連講的就這麼沒信心你應該很大聲的講我們絕對有人力突破封鎖再等到外面的來更好這樣是不是這種答案不是更漂亮"},{"start":768.634,"end":785.582,"text":"我已經講過了沒有講沒有聽清楚封鎖這個階段就已經進入了我們應急作戰的階段我們就要準備好應對這樣子的一個交戰的做法沒有回答問題憑著中華民國的國軍能不能突破封鎖問你這句話啦可以不可以啦"},{"start":786.482,"end":803.31,"text":"我們能夠做這個相關的因應的一個作為然後讓他的這個封鎖的這個行動會不成功那我們這就是我們應該要做的事情那就是解讀說可以突破封鎖那你快點啊 簡單一點 聽得懂嗎你說一堆人聽不懂可以突破封鎖那你聽得懂嗎 可以嗎我們 呃 會來 呃 救他的這個不敢說 奇怪的 這麼沒信心我已經在做事給你了 不敢接 你看"},{"start":817.353,"end":830.987,"text":"你說完全贊成賴文獎的,絕對有人力突破就好了,我說不是你說的,不是很好我個人認為要封鎖沒有那麼簡單,我們也有能力力來保衛我們的國土然後來進行這個反封鎖相關的作為這不等於突破封鎖,不等於突破封鎖"},{"start":836.28,"end":844.384,"text":"這等於通過封鎖啦對不起我能不能請教一下委員認為什麼叫做突破封鎖他把你封鎖就把你圍起來啊突破就是要出去啊這治理行業就這麼簡單的事情這個沒什麼大的學問啊這需要什麼學問那我們有相關的反封鎖的這個規劃跟作為剛才這裡也沒有辦法沒有規劃啦 有人力就好了啦"},{"start":859.231,"end":868.778,"text":"我想我們也應該要有具備這樣的一個反封鎖的能力不要再說了 說得急急的 國防部長你這樣弄我們有信心嘛你今天回答我們都沒有信心去本來我們都辯護"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1177,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（13時1分）謝謝主席以及各位先進，有請國防部顧部長。"],["主席：請顧部長。"],["顧部長立雄：賴委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：部長辛苦了，前面有委員問到，我再確定一下，我們現在國軍用的戰備餐盒加熱的部分最後確定是用什麼版本？是40塊、50塊的簡易版？還是用240塊的6葷2素的？"],["陳次長道輝：簡單跟委員報告，三樣東西都有備便，第一個是加熱式餐盒，第二個是口糧，第三個是即食包，也就是在一般便利商店可以看到的直接拆開的即食包。"],["賴委員士葆：這三樣各準備多少？"],["陳次長道輝：我可以私下跟委員報告，因為準備的天數屬於比較機敏的。"],["賴委員士葆：機密嗎？"],["陳次長道輝：是，確定是機密。"],["賴委員士葆：部長，農業部都講了，戰備儲糧準備6個月、7個月，農業部都講了，你還什麼機密，我覺得奇怪，農業部都準備了，經濟部也講了。"],["陳次長道輝：我所謂的機敏的部分指的是它的個別天數，我可以跟委員報告，我們維持30日以上，冷凍食品都在7日以上。"],["賴委員士葆：冷凍食品7日，其他30日，價格怎麼樣？"],["陳次長道輝：加熱式的比較貴一點，差不多在240元左右，口糧比較便宜，大概90元左右，剩下的調理包部分，就跟一般市售一樣，大概在40、50元左右。"],["賴委員士葆：冷凍的7天，其他的30天以上，以上到哪裡不知道，是不是這個意思？"],["陳次長道輝：對，因為牽扯到人數的問題，所以私下再跟委員說明。"],["賴委員士葆：好，私下跟我說明。請問部長，你今天對外講中共如果封鎖臺灣，國際不會坐視，請問它現在封鎖沒有？"],["顧部長立雄：迄今嗎？"],["賴委員士葆：對，到現在為止。"],["顧部長立雄：如果按照國際法上的定義，它目前並沒有，因為封鎖是一個交戰的行動。"],["賴委員士葆：聯合利劍2024B算不算封鎖？"],["顧部長立雄：算是一種操演，但沒有真的封鎖。"],["賴委員士葆：操演封鎖，但是接近封鎖，不等於封鎖，是不是？是這樣的意思？"],["顧部長立雄：它自己發布的字眼就是操演（drill），它並沒有劃設任何禁航區，也沒有讓任何載空機或載船自由進出我們的港口。"],["賴委員士葆：這兩天在平潭打飛彈是不是因應美加的軍艦經過我們這邊？"],["顧部長立雄：你說它在平潭嗎？"],["賴委員士葆：對，前幾天。"],["顧部長立雄：就我們的了解是一個例行性的演練，但是它將這個例行性演練故意宣傳，作為一個心理威懾的一部分。"],["賴委員士葆：算不算因應我剛說過的，美加不是軍艦經過我們這裡嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我們的理解是這是一個例行性訓練項目之一，但是有點把它擴大成一個對我們的心理威攝，算是在例行性以外從事認知戰。"],["賴委員士葆：部長，你今天講的話裡面有很多的解讀，說如果封鎖臺灣，國際不會坐視，你的言下之意是一封鎖，我們要靠人家救，自己沒辦法自救，是這個意思嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：不是。"],["賴委員士葆：不然是什麼？"],["顧部長立雄：我剛才已經講了，如果是屬於國際法上的封鎖，它是阻止所有國家的機艦進出我們管轄的港口、機場和海岸線，這樣的封鎖行為會被視為戰爭行為，我們就會進入應急作戰階段，我們所有的部隊、我們所有的武器裝備都會進入應急作戰階段應該有的部署位置。"],["賴委員士葆：我現在問你一個很粗淺的、一般老百姓很想知道的，現在大陸步步進逼，2024A，再過來B，慢慢一直把臺灣越勒越緊的情況之下，我們看到我們的因應除了你們在這裡講都不用怕如何如何，感覺相關的單位、我們的國軍只剩下打嘴砲而已。"],["顧部長立雄：我們沒有說我們不用那個……我一再的講我們要警惕這樣的狀況。"],["賴委員士葆：怎麼會說它一直進逼，而我們一直嘴巴講而已，沒辦法讓它不要進逼，或者讓它退回去，A到B是往臺灣進了，我想辦法讓它退到A，甚至於退到更前面，有嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：這是中國的一種威權，中國在挑釁啊！"],["賴委員士葆：你要想辦法啊！你要讓人家知道，我們國防預算一直增加。"],["顧部長立雄：我們不升高衝突，我們在克制，我們只是企求維持現狀，中國不認為維持現狀是它可以接受的，這個問題出在於中國不接受現狀的維持啊！"],["賴委員士葆：那我們不應該接受它一直往我們這裡面圍啊！難道國防部不是這樣子嗎？你這種態度嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：所以我們就要用聯合情監偵的手段來綿密的監控它相關的所有作為，我們要掌控它所有的一舉一動，不管是海空的……"],["賴委員士葆：監控不夠啦！你要想辦法讓它不進來嘛！"],["顧部長立雄：我們有應處啊！"],["賴委員士葆：沒有啊！我沒有看到應處，什麼應處呢？至少想辦法不要讓它……"],["顧部長立雄：我們要捍衛我們的領海、領空、領土，這個部分就是我們現在應處這個灰色地帶襲擾最必要的部分，我們就是要應對這樣子的……"],["賴委員士葆：請問你，B有沒有比A更靠近臺灣？"],["顧部長立雄：它都沒有進入24浬。"],["賴委員士葆：但是有靠近一點，難道不是？"],["顧部長立雄：沒有進入24浬。"],["賴委員士葆：我們看圖都有。"],["顧部長立雄：圖這樣畫，問題是它沒有這樣的作為啊！它的圖也沒有經緯度，他自己就畫了圖，然後看起來跨過24海里，問題是它的操演一天結束，在這一天當中，它就沒有進入到我們24海里，不管是在空中或海面。"],["賴委員士葆：所以你的意思是以後不管中國大陸、中共怎樣的演習，我們就不要理它，大家都不用怕，是不是這個意思？"],["顧部長立雄：不是，我從來沒有講過不用理它，怎麼可以不用理它呢？我們要戒慎恐懼面對這樣的敵情日趨嚴峻威脅的狀況。"],["賴委員士葆：請問老百姓要做什麼心理建設？"],["顧部長立雄：我們推動全民防衛韌性的目的就是在讓全民應該要有一個在團結之下要建立這樣的心防，居安能夠思危。"],["賴委員士葆：你上次說40萬的民力不等於民兵，可是你的教戰手冊裡面TECC就講最好的防禦就是把對方殺死，這個很好啊！這個不就是全民皆兵了嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：TECC應該是消防署發布的，是不是應該由消防署來回答？"],["劉組長宏儒：委員好，戰術手冊是我們因應不同的時間、不同的地點，採取的不同救護方式。"],["賴委員士葆：你在上面寫的啊！最好的防禦方式就是把對方殺死，這就全民皆兵啊！"],["劉組長宏儒：那個是在訓練後的測驗的翻譯題目。"],["賴委員士葆：翻譯？"],["劉組長宏儒：對。"],["賴委員士葆：所以講白了，統統是美國叫我們做的，是不是？就這個意思啦！"],["劉組長宏儒：沒有，這是給救護同仁另外一個思考，就是在不同的時間採取不同的因應作為。"],["賴委員士葆：請問部長，現在臺海的局勢有沒有比520更緊張？"],["顧部長立雄：我認為中國一直採取在我們周遭進行演訓的相關作為，在任何的情況之下，它會找任何的理由或任何的藉口來持續進行挑釁的作為，我們國人當然要團結，國軍要戒慎以對。"],["賴委員士葆：川普最近的民調不錯，看起來有機會，說不定選贏也不知道，他在5月份的時候講了一句話，如果中共入侵臺灣，要轟炸北京。結果現在縮起來了，現在說要制裁它，關稅要課150%到200%，道地的做法就是跟面對烏克蘭一樣，制裁俄羅斯，也不幫烏克蘭打仗，只給武器，對臺灣幾乎完全一樣啊！你怎麼看川普這樣的講法？"],["顧部長立雄：我只能夠說美國迄今為止仍然維持一個戰略模糊的政策，這個戰略模糊的政策就是說你不能排除它可能出兵，也不可能排除不出兵，也就是它維持戰略模糊，藉此來進行嚇阻，我想這是迄今為止美國政府的態度。"],["賴委員士葆：美國都戰略模糊了，我們的外交官還戰略這麼清楚，請問我們要不要戰略模糊？"],["顧部長立雄：我們是守勢的一方，我們要的就是如何拒止中國可能的全面侵犯，一旦發生全面侵犯，我們讓它全面侵犯能夠失敗。"],["賴委員士葆：我們要很具體吧！我們戰略不能模糊，我們要戰略清楚，你同不同意我講的，不能讓它逾越雷池一步，不是這樣嗎？我們的戰略要很清楚啊！"],["顧部長立雄：對，平時我們應付灰色地帶的襲擾就是要捍衛我們的領土、領空、領海，在戰時的話，就是讓它侵臺的行動失敗，這是我們非常清楚的戰略。"],["賴委員士葆：所以我們是戰略清楚，美國是戰略模糊，是這個樣子嗎？我可不可以這樣講？"],["顧部長立雄：因為我們沒有要反攻大陸，我們就是守勢作戰的一方，我們要隨時戒備它任何可能對我們的作為，很清楚的就是我們希望能夠維持現狀。"],["賴委員士葆：我最後一句話，你今天向各大媒體講的那句話，其實外界的解讀是國防部長顧立雄說如果被封鎖，國際不會坐視，言下之意就是我們沒有能力突破它的封鎖，就是這個意思啊！"],["顧部長立雄：我不是這個意思。"],["賴委員士葆：不是喔？這樣就不需要國際啦！我們自己就能夠突破，還要國際！如果可以的話，我們自己來就好啦！不是這樣嗎？還要國際！我們先突圍啊！不是這樣嗎？請問你，它封鎖，我們有沒有能力突破封鎖？"],["顧部長立雄：我們要運用我們所有防衛的力量來確保我們國土的安全。"],["賴委員士葆：你現在連講都這麼沒信心！你應該很大聲的講：我們絕對有能力突破封鎖，再等待外面的來，更好！這種答案不是更漂亮嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我已經講過了，封鎖這個階段就已經進入我們應急作戰的階段，我們就要準備好應對這樣的交戰作為。"],["賴委員士葆：你還是沒有回答問題，憑著中華民國的國軍，能不能突破封鎖？我就問你這句話，可不可以？"],["顧部長立雄：我們能夠做相關的因應作為，讓它的封鎖行動不成功，這就是我們應該要做的事情。"],["賴委員士葆：那就是解讀可以突破封鎖，這樣比較快啊！講得簡單，大家才聽得懂，你講一堆大家聽不懂的，講可以突破封鎖，這樣比較聽得懂，可以嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我們會來就它的……"],["賴委員士葆：還是不敢講，很奇怪耶！這麼沒信心！我已經做球給你了，你還不敢接，你要說完全贊成賴委員講的，絕對有能力突破，這樣就好了，是我講的，不是你講的，這樣不是比較好嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我個人認為要封鎖沒有那麼簡單，我們有能力來保衛我們的國土，進行反封鎖相關的作為。"],["賴委員士葆：這不等於突破封鎖，這不等於突破封鎖啦！"],["顧部長立雄：我能不能請教一下委員認為什麼叫突破封鎖？"],["賴委員士葆：它把你封鎖就是把你圍起來，突破就是我出去了，這麼簡單的事情，這沒什麼大學問，這需要什麼學問？"],["顧部長立雄：我們有相關的反封鎖規劃和作為，但是在這裡沒有辦法公開相關訊息。"],["賴委員士葆：不用規劃，有能力就好了！"],["顧部長立雄：我想我們也應該要具備這樣的反封鎖能力。"],["賴委員士葆：都不敢講，講話畏畏縮縮的，你是國防部長，要講得讓我們有信心，你今天的回答讓我們都沒有信心，本來有信心都變沒有了。"],["主席：謝謝賴士葆委員，部長請回。","吳思瑤，吳思瑤，吳思瑤委員不在。","高金素梅，高金素梅，高金素梅委員不在。","張嘉郡，張嘉郡，張嘉郡委員不在。","已登記質詢的委員除不在場外，均已發言完畢，報告及詢答結束，本日會議有張嘉郡委員提出書面質詢，請列入紀錄，並刊登公報，請相關機關以書面於兩週內答復。委員口頭質詢未及答復部分或要求補充資料者，請相關單位以書面於兩週內提供。委員另約定期限者，從其所定。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":352,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-7","speakers":["林憶君","羅美玲","陳永康","王定宇","馬文君","黃仁","陳冠廷","林楚茵","沈伯洋","徐巧芯","黃國昌","張啓楷","王鴻薇","洪申翰","羅智強","邱志偉","洪孟楷","賴士葆","張嘉郡"],"page_start":271,"meetingDate":["2024-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1138701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138701_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長、國家安全局、法務部調查局、海洋委員會海巡署、內政部、經濟部、農業部、\n國家發展委員會、國家科學及技術委員會、交通部、數位發展部、衛生福利部報告「針對解放軍\n未來可能透過『灰色地帶戰術』和『蟒蛇戰略』對台灣封鎖之國安危機及如何確保關鍵物資自\n主、關鍵產業、基礎設施、能源自主、民生物資、糧食安全及醫療物資供應無虞之應處作為」，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138701_00004"}}}