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{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 468.865, \"end\": 469.065, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 469.065, \"end\": 469.305, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 469.305, \"end\": 470.205, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 470.205, \"end\": 470.506, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 470.506, \"end\": 470.586, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 470.586, \"end\": 470.986, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 470.986, \"end\": 471.006, \"score\": 0.01}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,476 --> 00:00:07,561\n謝謝主席那是有請我們部長交通部陳部長\n\n2\n00:00:18,526 --> 00:00:37,405\n部長,想跟你聊一個,雖然是陳情案,不過你過去也是民意代表出身嘛那民意代表在遇到陳情的時候,跟部會溝通難免都會遇到部會有堅持,那我們在陳情的內容跟部會沒有辦法達到很好的一個共識\n\n3\n00:00:38,306 --> 00:01:00,358\n那我要舉的這一個就是實質上在去年發生的就是去年在這個南下112年10月的時候就南下68K的地方有一個地方國道1啦還有那個測速照相然後公五密集的有很多大型車輛連結超速\n\n4\n00:01:02,905 --> 00:01:29,631\n那超速當然是因為警政署他們的這個測速照相機拍攝起來是超速的但是這些連結車都舉出了他們自己車內的叫做大餅這類大餅就是行車紀錄器這個大餅的行車紀錄器他就是他的速度有跑到哪邊他就會做如實的一個刻畫來可不可以跟著我的那一頁對他就會有如實的這個刻畫\n\n5\n00:01:30,987 --> 00:01:42,782\n那後來他的這個行車記錄器呈現的是沒有超速的沒超速結果他就去調GPS調GPS可能是調這個\n\n6\n00:01:46,584 --> 00:02:15,000\nETC或者是吊GPS那後來也都從他的一個間接的一個距離來看起來也不應該有超速因為不是個案,累積起來不少東西所以我就定義大家人口口的然後含交通部警政署的警政署堅持他們的測速照相機沒有問題可是交通部對於自己測試合格的這個行車紀錄器就是大餅\n\n7\n00:02:16,687 --> 00:02:21,798\n你們卻沒辦法堅持說你們的勤勞技術是一定百分之百準確\n\n8\n00:02:23,351 --> 00:02:51,780\n這樣就不對了如果這個連結車沒有去加裝這個行車紀錄器的話你們是會處罰一萬兩千元以上兩萬四千元以下你要求這都一定要增還不然會處罰可是這個行車器在於說他一旦他被抓到測速的時候抓到超速的時候他要拿出來去證明說他沒有超速你大家說這不採用以警政署的為主\n\n9\n00:02:53,012 --> 00:02:54,679\n咦?這樣一看起來你們交通部真沒錢欸,怎麼這樣?\n\n10\n00:02:57,374 --> 00:03:22,837\n來是報告委員我自己這樣聽起來我會覺得對交通部這邊來說應該要對自己的這個記錄器上面的數字要有信心畢竟我們是用這個在監管跟監理大型的車輛的這個所謂用大餅來監管他們的車速跟他們的行車的狀況所以交通部自己本身當然要對這方面的數據要有信心這樣聽起來我是認為說交通部應該要堅持這方面的\n\n11\n00:03:23,477 --> 00:03:45,805\n對部長我跟你說這個大餅就是齁為了連結車如果發生事故嘛對不對然後要來證明說確確你有沒有危險駕駛所以這個如果要來證明駕駛人有犯罪的時候哇他是有證據力的喔是啊沒錯阿現在倒過來喔駕駛人要來證明我沒有違規的時候哇沒有證據力是\n\n12\n00:03:47,330 --> 00:04:10,231\n我覺得這好納悶而且我還有找我們那個標準局來講標準局也說他很有信心如果是他們標準局檢驗過的行車制作區不會有問題所以這個就存在兩個可能一個就是測速照相機有問題一個就是行車制作區有問題因為兩個數據差很多嘛那所以我們左右我國軌道建設執行概況他們就要拿ETC當然ETC因為它是間接\n\n13\n00:04:12,254 --> 00:04:40,032\n他是一個間接的一個速度可是那個間接時速看起來也不可能在10秒鐘的變化就可以從90公里馬上拉到110公里那個以現階的速度來看起來不合理所以以兩個證據佐證起來是你們交通部的大便比較強看起來他比較準、測數上去比較不準結果你們結果我聽到的結果所有的監察這個監理機關全部都測手都說以警政署為主\n\n14\n00:04:42,513 --> 00:05:09,787\n交通部就在大便這個不採納為什麼這個報告委員我覺得這樣聽起來我也認為不合理啦所以讓我回去跟他們瞭解一下為什麼會對自己的數據是部長你可以回去瞭解可是他們會給你一個答案我叫他們去打行政訴訟哇我跟你說很抱歉行政訴訟這些價值人也打輸了也打輸了也打輸了他們就是認為說因為你們自己不堅持你們的大餅有證據力啊是是是\n\n15\n00:05:10,670 --> 00:05:33,422\n這個部分我是不是跟委員報一下確實警察機關弄的測速雷達跟這個行車紀錄器這兩個這個速度計算各有精度的一個這個要求那剛剛委員也提到就是說那如果說是在國道上面的話那至少還有一個ETC區間的這個速率可以來那ETC也是證明駕駛人比較合理啊\n\n16\n00:05:34,422 --> 00:05:50,881\n在於這個就是說交通違規的處理基本上大概有兩道這個程序第一道先這個申訴那申訴的這個部分是由處罰機關來對監警署所以你們來這個處理那目前處罰機關的一個處理就是比較相信行政機關相信這個行政機關的部分\n\n17\n00:05:51,321 --> 00:06:15,312\n第二道申訴沒有辦法過的時候你講這句話我就不接受啊你相信的是誰的行政機關你們相信的是內政部的行政機關你們是不相信你們自己交通部的行政機關我現在就在生氣這一點你知道嗎我剛剛跟委員報告是還沒講完我說第二道就是打這個行政訴訟那其實像這樣子的東西器材精準度東西應該在第一道申訴制度就要把它處理啦\n\n18\n00:06:16,112 --> 00:06:17,153\n二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長進行專題報告\n\n19\n00:06:47,033 --> 00:07:02,603\n有來的差不多十幾個,但是在一個賴的群組的自救會有六十幾個這些職業駕駛人基本上,他們都很辛苦,因為他們都刮眉毛他白天還要來立法院陳情,基本上是把他們要休息的時間都消化掉了\n\n20\n00:07:03,583 --> 00:07:30,779\n但是你也知道現在駕駛人他一旦超速違規對於職業駕駛人來傷害多大甚至有很多企業就說你有這樣超速違規一定會替你記點記點落久的時間他就不能開車我覺得這個議題有檢討的空間這個傷害性是非常的大這裡有檢討的空間對然後我現在很氣憤的就是說當我在協調的時候交通部對於自己的技術的準確性是不堅持的\n\n21\n00:07:32,039 --> 00:07:51,006\n卻棄守這一塊直接說那都以車速照相為主這個絕對有檢討的空間啦所以我回去之後會請公路局他們來檢討這件事情建立一個新的處理的機制如果當兩邊的數據不一樣的時候該怎麼處理大家來建立一個機制OK好那對部長希望這件事再面對一下好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4476\t7561\t謝謝主席那是有請我們部長交通部陳部長\n18526\t37405\t部長,想跟你聊一個,雖然是陳情案,不過你過去也是民意代表出身嘛那民意代表在遇到陳情的時候,跟部會溝通難免都會遇到部會有堅持,那我們在陳情的內容跟部會沒有辦法達到很好的一個共識\n38306\t60358\t那我要舉的這一個就是實質上在去年發生的就是去年在這個南下112年10月的時候就南下68K的地方有一個地方國道1啦還有那個測速照相然後公五密集的有很多大型車輛連結超速\n62905\t89631\t那超速當然是因為警政署他們的這個測速照相機拍攝起來是超速的但是這些連結車都舉出了他們自己車內的叫做大餅這類大餅就是行車紀錄器這個大餅的行車紀錄器他就是他的速度有跑到哪邊他就會做如實的一個刻畫來可不可以跟著我的那一頁對他就會有如實的這個刻畫\n90987\t102782\t那後來他的這個行車記錄器呈現的是沒有超速的沒超速結果他就去調GPS調GPS可能是調這個\n106584\t135000\tETC或者是吊GPS那後來也都從他的一個間接的一個距離來看起來也不應該有超速因為不是個案,累積起來不少東西所以我就定義大家人口口的然後含交通部警政署的警政署堅持他們的測速照相機沒有問題可是交通部對於自己測試合格的這個行車紀錄器就是大餅\n136687\t141798\t你們卻沒辦法堅持說你們的勤勞技術是一定百分之百準確\n143351\t171780\t這樣就不對了如果這個連結車沒有去加裝這個行車紀錄器的話你們是會處罰一萬兩千元以上兩萬四千元以下你要求這都一定要增還不然會處罰可是這個行車器在於說他一旦他被抓到測速的時候抓到超速的時候他要拿出來去證明說他沒有超速你大家說這不採用以警政署的為主\n173012\t174679\t咦?這樣一看起來你們交通部真沒錢欸,怎麼這樣?\n177374\t202837\t來是報告委員我自己這樣聽起來我會覺得對交通部這邊來說應該要對自己的這個記錄器上面的數字要有信心畢竟我們是用這個在監管跟監理大型的車輛的這個所謂用大餅來監管他們的車速跟他們的行車的狀況所以交通部自己本身當然要對這方面的數據要有信心這樣聽起來我是認為說交通部應該要堅持這方面的\n203477\t225805\t對部長我跟你說這個大餅就是齁為了連結車如果發生事故嘛對不對然後要來證明說確確你有沒有危險駕駛所以這個如果要來證明駕駛人有犯罪的時候哇他是有證據力的喔是啊沒錯阿現在倒過來喔駕駛人要來證明我沒有違規的時候哇沒有證據力是\n227330\t250231\t我覺得這好納悶而且我還有找我們那個標準局來講標準局也說他很有信心如果是他們標準局檢驗過的行車制作區不會有問題所以這個就存在兩個可能一個就是測速照相機有問題一個就是行車制作區有問題因為兩個數據差很多嘛那所以我們左右我國軌道建設執行概況他們就要拿ETC當然ETC因為它是間接\n252254\t280032\t他是一個間接的一個速度可是那個間接時速看起來也不可能在10秒鐘的變化就可以從90公里馬上拉到110公里那個以現階的速度來看起來不合理所以以兩個證據佐證起來是你們交通部的大便比較強看起來他比較準、測數上去比較不準結果你們結果我聽到的結果所有的監察這個監理機關全部都測手都說以警政署為主\n282513\t309787\t交通部就在大便這個不採納為什麼這個報告委員我覺得這樣聽起來我也認為不合理啦所以讓我回去跟他們瞭解一下為什麼會對自己的數據是部長你可以回去瞭解可是他們會給你一個答案我叫他們去打行政訴訟哇我跟你說很抱歉行政訴訟這些價值人也打輸了也打輸了也打輸了他們就是認為說因為你們自己不堅持你們的大餅有證據力啊是是是\n310670\t333422\t這個部分我是不是跟委員報一下確實警察機關弄的測速雷達跟這個行車紀錄器這兩個這個速度計算各有精度的一個這個要求那剛剛委員也提到就是說那如果說是在國道上面的話那至少還有一個ETC區間的這個速率可以來那ETC也是證明駕駛人比較合理啊\n334422\t350881\t在於這個就是說交通違規的處理基本上大概有兩道這個程序第一道先這個申訴那申訴的這個部分是由處罰機關來對監警署所以你們來這個處理那目前處罰機關的一個處理就是比較相信行政機關相信這個行政機關的部分\n351321\t375312\t第二道申訴沒有辦法過的時候你講這句話我就不接受啊你相信的是誰的行政機關你們相信的是內政部的行政機關你們是不相信你們自己交通部的行政機關我現在就在生氣這一點你知道嗎我剛剛跟委員報告是還沒講完我說第二道就是打這個行政訴訟那其實像這樣子的東西器材精準度東西應該在第一道申訴制度就要把它處理啦\n376112\t377153\t二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長進行專題報告\n407033\t422603\t有來的差不多十幾個,但是在一個賴的群組的自救會有六十幾個這些職業駕駛人基本上,他們都很辛苦,因為他們都刮眉毛他白天還要來立法院陳情,基本上是把他們要休息的時間都消化掉了\n423583\t450779\t但是你也知道現在駕駛人他一旦超速違規對於職業駕駛人來傷害多大甚至有很多企業就說你有這樣超速違規一定會替你記點記點落久的時間他就不能開車我覺得這個議題有檢討的空間這個傷害性是非常的大這裡有檢討的空間對然後我現在很氣憤的就是說當我在協調的時候交通部對於自己的技術的準確性是不堅持的\n452039\t471006\t卻棄守這一塊直接說那都以車速照相為主這個絕對有檢討的空間啦所以我回去之後會請公路局他們來檢討這件事情建立一個新的處理的機制如果當兩邊的數據不一樣的時候該怎麼處理大家來建立一個機制OK好那對部長希望這件事再面對一下好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席那是有請我們部長交通部陳部長\n部長,想跟你聊一個,雖然是陳情案,不過你過去也是民意代表出身嘛那民意代表在遇到陳情的時候,跟部會溝通難免都會遇到部會有堅持,那我們在陳情的內容跟部會沒有辦法達到很好的一個共識\n那我要舉的這一個就是實質上在去年發生的就是去年在這個南下112年10月的時候就南下68K的地方有一個地方國道1啦還有那個測速照相然後公五密集的有很多大型車輛連結超速\n那超速當然是因為警政署他們的這個測速照相機拍攝起來是超速的但是這些連結車都舉出了他們自己車內的叫做大餅這類大餅就是行車紀錄器這個大餅的行車紀錄器他就是他的速度有跑到哪邊他就會做如實的一個刻畫來可不可以跟著我的那一頁對他就會有如實的這個刻畫\n那後來他的這個行車記錄器呈現的是沒有超速的沒超速結果他就去調GPS調GPS可能是調這個\nETC或者是吊GPS那後來也都從他的一個間接的一個距離來看起來也不應該有超速因為不是個案,累積起來不少東西所以我就定義大家人口口的然後含交通部警政署的警政署堅持他們的測速照相機沒有問題可是交通部對於自己測試合格的這個行車紀錄器就是大餅\n你們卻沒辦法堅持說你們的勤勞技術是一定百分之百準確\n這樣就不對了如果這個連結車沒有去加裝這個行車紀錄器的話你們是會處罰一萬兩千元以上兩萬四千元以下你要求這都一定要增還不然會處罰可是這個行車器在於說他一旦他被抓到測速的時候抓到超速的時候他要拿出來去證明說他沒有超速你大家說這不採用以警政署的為主\n咦?這樣一看起來你們交通部真沒錢欸,怎麼這樣?\n來是報告委員我自己這樣聽起來我會覺得對交通部這邊來說應該要對自己的這個記錄器上面的數字要有信心畢竟我們是用這個在監管跟監理大型的車輛的這個所謂用大餅來監管他們的車速跟他們的行車的狀況所以交通部自己本身當然要對這方面的數據要有信心這樣聽起來我是認為說交通部應該要堅持這方面的\n對部長我跟你說這個大餅就是齁為了連結車如果發生事故嘛對不對然後要來證明說確確你有沒有危險駕駛所以這個如果要來證明駕駛人有犯罪的時候哇他是有證據力的喔是啊沒錯阿現在倒過來喔駕駛人要來證明我沒有違規的時候哇沒有證據力是\n我覺得這好納悶而且我還有找我們那個標準局來講標準局也說他很有信心如果是他們標準局檢驗過的行車制作區不會有問題所以這個就存在兩個可能一個就是測速照相機有問題一個就是行車制作區有問題因為兩個數據差很多嘛那所以我們左右我國軌道建設執行概況他們就要拿ETC當然ETC因為它是間接\n他是一個間接的一個速度可是那個間接時速看起來也不可能在10秒鐘的變化就可以從90公里馬上拉到110公里那個以現階的速度來看起來不合理所以以兩個證據佐證起來是你們交通部的大便比較強看起來他比較準、測數上去比較不準結果你們結果我聽到的結果所有的監察這個監理機關全部都測手都說以警政署為主\n交通部就在大便這個不採納為什麼這個報告委員我覺得這樣聽起來我也認為不合理啦所以讓我回去跟他們瞭解一下為什麼會對自己的數據是部長你可以回去瞭解可是他們會給你一個答案我叫他們去打行政訴訟哇我跟你說很抱歉行政訴訟這些價值人也打輸了也打輸了也打輸了他們就是認為說因為你們自己不堅持你們的大餅有證據力啊是是是\n這個部分我是不是跟委員報一下確實警察機關弄的測速雷達跟這個行車紀錄器這兩個這個速度計算各有精度的一個這個要求那剛剛委員也提到就是說那如果說是在國道上面的話那至少還有一個ETC區間的這個速率可以來那ETC也是證明駕駛人比較合理啊\n在於這個就是說交通違規的處理基本上大概有兩道這個程序第一道先這個申訴那申訴的這個部分是由處罰機關來對監警署所以你們來這個處理那目前處罰機關的一個處理就是比較相信行政機關相信這個行政機關的部分\n第二道申訴沒有辦法過的時候你講這句話我就不接受啊你相信的是誰的行政機關你們相信的是內政部的行政機關你們是不相信你們自己交通部的行政機關我現在就在生氣這一點你知道嗎我剛剛跟委員報告是還沒講完我說第二道就是打這個行政訴訟那其實像這樣子的東西器材精準度東西應該在第一道申訴制度就要把它處理啦\n二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長進行專題報告\n有來的差不多十幾個,但是在一個賴的群組的自救會有六十幾個這些職業駕駛人基本上,他們都很辛苦,因為他們都刮眉毛他白天還要來立法院陳情,基本上是把他們要休息的時間都消化掉了\n但是你也知道現在駕駛人他一旦超速違規對於職業駕駛人來傷害多大甚至有很多企業就說你有這樣超速違規一定會替你記點記點落久的時間他就不能開車我覺得這個議題有檢討的空間這個傷害性是非常的大這裡有檢討的空間對然後我現在很氣憤的就是說當我在協調的時候交通部對於自己的技術的準確性是不堅持的\n卻棄守這一塊直接說那都以車速照相為主這個絕對有檢討的空間啦所以我回去之後會請公路局他們來檢討這件事情建立一個新的處理的機制如果當兩邊的數據不一樣的時候該怎麼處理大家來建立一個機制OK好那對部長希望這件事再面對一下好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.476 --> 00:07.561\n謝謝主席那是有請我們部長交通部陳部長\n\n00:18.526 --> 00:37.405\n部長,想跟你聊一個,雖然是陳情案,不過你過去也是民意代表出身嘛那民意代表在遇到陳情的時候,跟部會溝通難免都會遇到部會有堅持,那我們在陳情的內容跟部會沒有辦法達到很好的一個共識\n\n00:38.306 --> 01:00.358\n那我要舉的這一個就是實質上在去年發生的就是去年在這個南下112年10月的時候就南下68K的地方有一個地方國道1啦還有那個測速照相然後公五密集的有很多大型車輛連結超速\n\n01:02.905 --> 01:29.631\n那超速當然是因為警政署他們的這個測速照相機拍攝起來是超速的但是這些連結車都舉出了他們自己車內的叫做大餅這類大餅就是行車紀錄器這個大餅的行車紀錄器他就是他的速度有跑到哪邊他就會做如實的一個刻畫來可不可以跟著我的那一頁對他就會有如實的這個刻畫\n\n01:30.987 --> 01:42.782\n那後來他的這個行車記錄器呈現的是沒有超速的沒超速結果他就去調GPS調GPS可能是調這個\n\n01:46.584 --> 02:15.000\nETC或者是吊GPS那後來也都從他的一個間接的一個距離來看起來也不應該有超速因為不是個案,累積起來不少東西所以我就定義大家人口口的然後含交通部警政署的警政署堅持他們的測速照相機沒有問題可是交通部對於自己測試合格的這個行車紀錄器就是大餅\n\n02:16.687 --> 02:21.798\n你們卻沒辦法堅持說你們的勤勞技術是一定百分之百準確\n\n02:23.351 --> 02:51.780\n這樣就不對了如果這個連結車沒有去加裝這個行車紀錄器的話你們是會處罰一萬兩千元以上兩萬四千元以下你要求這都一定要增還不然會處罰可是這個行車器在於說他一旦他被抓到測速的時候抓到超速的時候他要拿出來去證明說他沒有超速你大家說這不採用以警政署的為主\n\n02:53.012 --> 02:54.679\n咦?這樣一看起來你們交通部真沒錢欸,怎麼這樣?\n\n02:57.374 --> 03:22.837\n來是報告委員我自己這樣聽起來我會覺得對交通部這邊來說應該要對自己的這個記錄器上面的數字要有信心畢竟我們是用這個在監管跟監理大型的車輛的這個所謂用大餅來監管他們的車速跟他們的行車的狀況所以交通部自己本身當然要對這方面的數據要有信心這樣聽起來我是認為說交通部應該要堅持這方面的\n\n03:23.477 --> 03:45.805\n對部長我跟你說這個大餅就是齁為了連結車如果發生事故嘛對不對然後要來證明說確確你有沒有危險駕駛所以這個如果要來證明駕駛人有犯罪的時候哇他是有證據力的喔是啊沒錯阿現在倒過來喔駕駛人要來證明我沒有違規的時候哇沒有證據力是\n\n03:47.330 --> 04:10.231\n我覺得這好納悶而且我還有找我們那個標準局來講標準局也說他很有信心如果是他們標準局檢驗過的行車制作區不會有問題所以這個就存在兩個可能一個就是測速照相機有問題一個就是行車制作區有問題因為兩個數據差很多嘛那所以我們左右我國軌道建設執行概況他們就要拿ETC當然ETC因為它是間接\n\n04:12.254 --> 04:40.032\n他是一個間接的一個速度可是那個間接時速看起來也不可能在10秒鐘的變化就可以從90公里馬上拉到110公里那個以現階的速度來看起來不合理所以以兩個證據佐證起來是你們交通部的大便比較強看起來他比較準、測數上去比較不準結果你們結果我聽到的結果所有的監察這個監理機關全部都測手都說以警政署為主\n\n04:42.513 --> 05:09.787\n交通部就在大便這個不採納為什麼這個報告委員我覺得這樣聽起來我也認為不合理啦所以讓我回去跟他們瞭解一下為什麼會對自己的數據是部長你可以回去瞭解可是他們會給你一個答案我叫他們去打行政訴訟哇我跟你說很抱歉行政訴訟這些價值人也打輸了也打輸了也打輸了他們就是認為說因為你們自己不堅持你們的大餅有證據力啊是是是\n\n05:10.670 --> 05:33.422\n這個部分我是不是跟委員報一下確實警察機關弄的測速雷達跟這個行車紀錄器這兩個這個速度計算各有精度的一個這個要求那剛剛委員也提到就是說那如果說是在國道上面的話那至少還有一個ETC區間的這個速率可以來那ETC也是證明駕駛人比較合理啊\n\n05:34.422 --> 05:50.881\n在於這個就是說交通違規的處理基本上大概有兩道這個程序第一道先這個申訴那申訴的這個部分是由處罰機關來對監警署所以你們來這個處理那目前處罰機關的一個處理就是比較相信行政機關相信這個行政機關的部分\n\n05:51.321 --> 06:15.312\n第二道申訴沒有辦法過的時候你講這句話我就不接受啊你相信的是誰的行政機關你們相信的是內政部的行政機關你們是不相信你們自己交通部的行政機關我現在就在生氣這一點你知道嗎我剛剛跟委員報告是還沒講完我說第二道就是打這個行政訴訟那其實像這樣子的東西器材精準度東西應該在第一道申訴制度就要把它處理啦\n\n06:16.112 --> 06:17.153\n二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長進行專題報告\n\n06:47.033 --> 07:02.603\n有來的差不多十幾個,但是在一個賴的群組的自救會有六十幾個這些職業駕駛人基本上,他們都很辛苦,因為他們都刮眉毛他白天還要來立法院陳情,基本上是把他們要休息的時間都消化掉了\n\n07:03.583 --> 07:30.779\n但是你也知道現在駕駛人他一旦超速違規對於職業駕駛人來傷害多大甚至有很多企業就說你有這樣超速違規一定會替你記點記點落久的時間他就不能開車我覺得這個議題有檢討的空間這個傷害性是非常的大這裡有檢討的空間對然後我現在很氣憤的就是說當我在協調的時候交通部對於自己的技術的準確性是不堅持的\n\n07:32.039 --> 07:51.006\n卻棄守這一塊直接說那都以車速照相為主這個絕對有檢討的空間啦所以我回去之後會請公路局他們來檢討這件事情建立一個新的處理的機制如果當兩邊的數據不一樣的時候該怎麼處理大家來建立一個機制OK好那對部長希望這件事再面對一下好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.476,"end":7.561,"text":"謝謝主席那是有請我們部長交通部陳部長"},{"start":18.526,"end":37.405,"text":"部長,想跟你聊一個,雖然是陳情案,不過你過去也是民意代表出身嘛那民意代表在遇到陳情的時候,跟部會溝通難免都會遇到部會有堅持,那我們在陳情的內容跟部會沒有辦法達到很好的一個共識"},{"start":38.306,"end":60.358,"text":"那我要舉的這一個就是實質上在去年發生的就是去年在這個南下112年10月的時候就南下68K的地方有一個地方國道1啦還有那個測速照相然後公五密集的有很多大型車輛連結超速"},{"start":62.905,"end":89.631,"text":"那超速當然是因為警政署他們的這個測速照相機拍攝起來是超速的但是這些連結車都舉出了他們自己車內的叫做大餅這類大餅就是行車紀錄器這個大餅的行車紀錄器他就是他的速度有跑到哪邊他就會做如實的一個刻畫來可不可以跟著我的那一頁對他就會有如實的這個刻畫"},{"start":90.987,"end":102.782,"text":"那後來他的這個行車記錄器呈現的是沒有超速的沒超速結果他就去調GPS調GPS可能是調這個"},{"start":106.584,"end":135,"text":"ETC或者是吊GPS那後來也都從他的一個間接的一個距離來看起來也不應該有超速因為不是個案,累積起來不少東西所以我就定義大家人口口的然後含交通部警政署的警政署堅持他們的測速照相機沒有問題可是交通部對於自己測試合格的這個行車紀錄器就是大餅"},{"start":136.687,"end":141.798,"text":"你們卻沒辦法堅持說你們的勤勞技術是一定百分之百準確"},{"start":143.351,"end":171.78,"text":"這樣就不對了如果這個連結車沒有去加裝這個行車紀錄器的話你們是會處罰一萬兩千元以上兩萬四千元以下你要求這都一定要增還不然會處罰可是這個行車器在於說他一旦他被抓到測速的時候抓到超速的時候他要拿出來去證明說他沒有超速你大家說這不採用以警政署的為主"},{"start":173.012,"end":174.679,"text":"咦?這樣一看起來你們交通部真沒錢欸,怎麼這樣?"},{"start":177.374,"end":202.837,"text":"來是報告委員我自己這樣聽起來我會覺得對交通部這邊來說應該要對自己的這個記錄器上面的數字要有信心畢竟我們是用這個在監管跟監理大型的車輛的這個所謂用大餅來監管他們的車速跟他們的行車的狀況所以交通部自己本身當然要對這方面的數據要有信心這樣聽起來我是認為說交通部應該要堅持這方面的"},{"start":203.477,"end":225.805,"text":"對部長我跟你說這個大餅就是齁為了連結車如果發生事故嘛對不對然後要來證明說確確你有沒有危險駕駛所以這個如果要來證明駕駛人有犯罪的時候哇他是有證據力的喔是啊沒錯阿現在倒過來喔駕駛人要來證明我沒有違規的時候哇沒有證據力是"},{"start":227.33,"end":250.231,"text":"我覺得這好納悶而且我還有找我們那個標準局來講標準局也說他很有信心如果是他們標準局檢驗過的行車制作區不會有問題所以這個就存在兩個可能一個就是測速照相機有問題一個就是行車制作區有問題因為兩個數據差很多嘛那所以我們左右我國軌道建設執行概況他們就要拿ETC當然ETC因為它是間接"},{"start":252.254,"end":280.032,"text":"他是一個間接的一個速度可是那個間接時速看起來也不可能在10秒鐘的變化就可以從90公里馬上拉到110公里那個以現階的速度來看起來不合理所以以兩個證據佐證起來是你們交通部的大便比較強看起來他比較準、測數上去比較不準結果你們結果我聽到的結果所有的監察這個監理機關全部都測手都說以警政署為主"},{"start":282.513,"end":309.787,"text":"交通部就在大便這個不採納為什麼這個報告委員我覺得這樣聽起來我也認為不合理啦所以讓我回去跟他們瞭解一下為什麼會對自己的數據是部長你可以回去瞭解可是他們會給你一個答案我叫他們去打行政訴訟哇我跟你說很抱歉行政訴訟這些價值人也打輸了也打輸了也打輸了他們就是認為說因為你們自己不堅持你們的大餅有證據力啊是是是"},{"start":310.67,"end":333.422,"text":"這個部分我是不是跟委員報一下確實警察機關弄的測速雷達跟這個行車紀錄器這兩個這個速度計算各有精度的一個這個要求那剛剛委員也提到就是說那如果說是在國道上面的話那至少還有一個ETC區間的這個速率可以來那ETC也是證明駕駛人比較合理啊"},{"start":334.422,"end":350.881,"text":"在於這個就是說交通違規的處理基本上大概有兩道這個程序第一道先這個申訴那申訴的這個部分是由處罰機關來對監警署所以你們來這個處理那目前處罰機關的一個處理就是比較相信行政機關相信這個行政機關的部分"},{"start":351.321,"end":375.312,"text":"第二道申訴沒有辦法過的時候你講這句話我就不接受啊你相信的是誰的行政機關你們相信的是內政部的行政機關你們是不相信你們自己交通部的行政機關我現在就在生氣這一點你知道嗎我剛剛跟委員報告是還沒講完我說第二道就是打這個行政訴訟那其實像這樣子的東西器材精準度東西應該在第一道申訴制度就要把它處理啦"},{"start":376.112,"end":377.153,"text":"二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長進行專題報告"},{"start":407.033,"end":422.603,"text":"有來的差不多十幾個,但是在一個賴的群組的自救會有六十幾個這些職業駕駛人基本上,他們都很辛苦,因為他們都刮眉毛他白天還要來立法院陳情,基本上是把他們要休息的時間都消化掉了"},{"start":423.583,"end":450.779,"text":"但是你也知道現在駕駛人他一旦超速違規對於職業駕駛人來傷害多大甚至有很多企業就說你有這樣超速違規一定會替你記點記點落久的時間他就不能開車我覺得這個議題有檢討的空間這個傷害性是非常的大這裡有檢討的空間對然後我現在很氣憤的就是說當我在協調的時候交通部對於自己的技術的準確性是不堅持的"},{"start":452.039,"end":471.006,"text":"卻棄守這一塊直接說那都以車速照相為主這個絕對有檢討的空間啦所以我回去之後會請公路局他們來檢討這件事情建立一個新的處理的機制如果當兩邊的數據不一樣的時候該怎麼處理大家來建立一個機制OK好那對部長希望這件事再面對一下好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1224,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（13時26分）謝謝主席，是不是有請我們部長？"],["主席：好，交通部陳部長。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["蔡委員易餘：部長，想跟你聊一個，雖然是陳情案，不過你過去也是民意代表出身，民意代表在遇到陳情的時候，跟部會溝通難免都會遇到部會有堅持，讓我們在陳情的內容跟部會沒有辦法達到很好的一個共識。我要舉的這一個就是實質上在去年發生的，去年（112年）10月的時候，南下68K的一個地方，國道一有測速照相，然後說密集有很多大型車輛、聯結車超速，超速當然是因為警政署的測速照相機拍攝起來是超速的，但是這些聯結車都舉出他們自己車內的「大餅」，這個大餅就是行車記錄器，大餅（行車記錄器）就是它的速度有跑到哪邊就會做如實的一個刻畫。後來它的行車記錄器呈現的是沒有超速的，結果他就去調GPS，可能是調ETC或者是調GPS，後來也都從它間接的一個距離來看，看起來也不應該有超速，因為它不是個案，累積起來有很多件，所以我就趕緊把這些人邀集過來，然後跟交通部、警政署討論，警政署堅持他們的測速照相機沒有問題，可是交通部對於自己測試合格的行車記錄器，就是大餅，你們卻沒辦法堅持說你們的行車記錄器一定百分之百準確。","這樣就不對了，如果聯結車沒有去加裝行車記錄器的話，你們是會處罰1萬2,000元以上、2萬4,000元以下，你們要求他們這都一定要裝才不會處罰，可是這個行車記錄器在於說一旦他被抓到超速的時候，他要拿出來去證明他沒有超速，結果你跟他說這不採用，要以警政署的為主，這樣看起來，你們交通部很沒堅持，為什麼會這樣？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我自己這樣聽起來，我會覺得對交通部這邊來說，應該要對自己記錄器上面的數字有信心，畢竟我們是用這個在監管跟監理大型的車輛，所謂用大餅來監管他們的車速跟他們的行車狀況……"],["蔡委員易餘：是啊！"],["陳部長世凱：所以交通部自己本身當然要對這方面的數據有信心，我這樣聽起來，我是認為交通部應該要堅持這方面的。"],["蔡委員易餘：對，部長，我跟你說，這個大餅就是為了聯結車如果發生事故，然後要來證明說……"],["陳部長世凱：作為確切的一個紀錄。"],["蔡委員易餘：確切你有沒有危險駕駛……"],["陳部長世凱：對，有沒有超速。"],["蔡委員易餘：所以如果要來證明駕駛人有犯罪的時候，它是有證據力的。"],["陳部長世凱：是，沒錯。"],["蔡委員易餘：現在倒過來，駕駛人要來證明他沒有違規的時候，哇！沒有證據力，我覺得這好納悶，而且我還有找標準局來討論，標準局也說他很有信心，如果是他們標準局檢驗過的行車記錄器不會有問題，所以這個就存在兩個可能，一個就是測速照相機有問題，一個就是行車記錄器有問題，因為兩個數據差很多，所以我們左右比較，他們就拿ETC來比，當然因為ETC是測間接的速度，可是那個間接時速在10秒鐘的變化，看起來也不可能從90公里馬上拉到110公里，以間接的速度來看不合理。"],["陳部長世凱：不可能的。"],["蔡委員易餘：所以兩個證據佐證起來，是你們交通部的大餅比較強，看起來它比較準，測速照相機比較不準，結果我協調後所有的監理機關全部都撤守，都說以警政署為主，交通部的這個大餅不採納，為什麼？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，這樣聽起來我也認為不合理，所以讓我回去跟他們了解一下，為什麼會對自己的數據是撤守狀態。"],["蔡委員易餘：部長，你可以回去了解，可是他們會給你一個答案：「我叫他們去打行政訴訟。」"],["陳部長世凱：沒有人會為了這件事打行政訴訟。"],["蔡委員易餘：我跟你說，很抱歉，行政訴訟這些駕駛人也打輸了。"],["陳部長世凱：也打輸了？"],["蔡委員易餘：也打輸了，他們就是認為因為你們不堅持自己的大餅有證據力啊！"],["林司長福山：這個部分我是不是跟委員補充一下？"],["蔡委員易餘：好，你可以說。"],["林司長福山：確實，警察機關弄的測速雷達跟行車記錄器，這兩個對速度計算各有精度的要求，剛剛委員也提到，如果是在國道上面的話，至少還有一個ETC區間的速率可以來做……"],["蔡委員易餘：ETC也是證明駕駛人比較合理啊。"],["林司長福山：對。"],["蔡委員易餘：對啊！"],["林司長福山：在交通違規的處理上，基本上大概有兩道程序，第一道是先申訴，申訴的這個部分是由處罰機關來處理。"],["蔡委員易餘：對，監理所，所以你們……"],["林司長福山：目前處罰機關的處理就是行政機關比較相信行政機關的部分。第二道，申訴沒有辦法過的時候……"],["蔡委員易餘：你說這句話我就不接受了，你相信的是哪個行政機關？你們相信的是內政部的行政機關，你們是不相信你們交通部自己的行政機關欸！我現在就在生氣這一點，你知道嗎？"],["林司長福山：我剛剛跟委員報告的還沒講完，我說第二道就是打行政訴訟，其實像這樣子的東西，器材精準度應該在第一道申訴制度就要處理了。"],["蔡委員易餘：你現在這樣講，我越聽越生氣，我在協調的時候，你說請他們去打官司！"],["林司長福山：委員，我現在要講的部分就是，這個部分我們跟公路局會跟處罰機關建立一個……"],["蔡委員易餘：這件事你們可以去了解啦，因為……"],["林司長福山：建立一個像這種用第三方，譬如像ETC資料來做一個客觀參考的部分，然後講真的，確實沒有發生違規的部分就應該由處罰機關本於權責撤銷。"],["蔡委員易餘：部長，我跟你說，當時來跟我陳請的差不多有十幾個，但是在一個LINE群組的自救會有六十幾個，這些職業駕駛人基本上都很辛苦，因為他們都趕夜車，他白天還要來立法院陳請，基本上是把他們要休息的時間都消耗掉。但是你也知道，現在駕駛人一旦超速違規，對於職業駕駛人來說傷害有多大，甚至有很多企業對於超速違規，等於是將你記點，記點下去，他就有多久時間不能開車。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我覺得這個議題有檢討的空間。"],["蔡委員易餘：這個傷害性是非常地大！"],["陳部長世凱：這個有檢討的空間。"],["蔡委員易餘：對，然後我現在很氣憤的就是，當我在協調的時候，交通部對於自己的技術準確性是不堅持的，棄守這一塊，直接都說以測速照相為主。"],["陳部長世凱：這絕對有檢討的空間，我回去之後會請公路局來檢討這件事情。"],["蔡委員易餘：好。"],["陳部長世凱：建立一個新的處理機制，當兩邊的數據不一樣的時候該怎麼處理，大家來建立一個機制。"],["蔡委員易餘：OK，部長，希望這件事再面對一下，謝謝。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝蔡委員。交通部針對這個部分是真的要好好研究一下，因為剛剛蔡委員特別說大餅上面沒有日期，可是現在電腦科技發展到這樣，你這個餅放進去上面就要標註日期，是哪一個人開的應該要有一些……"],["蔡委員易餘：不是沒有日期，他是說準確性不夠……"],["主席：好，那交通部就好好研究一下，到底準不準……"],["蔡委員易餘：他說準確性不夠，現在還有電子大餅，可是電子大餅他們也是不採納，最後都棄守了，反正就是以測速照相機為準，不合理的地方在這裡。"],["主席：好，好好研究，給蔡委員跟關心的駕駛一個答案。","接下來請邱志偉委員、邱志偉、邱志偉委員不在。","蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉、蘇清泉委員不在。","賴士葆委員、賴士葆、賴士葆委員不在。","接下來有請陳培瑜委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":288,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-7","speakers":["魯明哲","李昆澤","林國成","許智傑","林沛祥","何欣純","陳素月","林俊憲","徐富癸","蔡其昌","廖先翔","邱若華","陳雪生","郭國文","王育敏","陳亭妃","陳菁徽","徐巧芯","黃國昌","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林月琴","林倩綺","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","陳培瑜","劉建國","游顥","黃健豪"],"page_start":197,"meetingDate":["2024-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1139001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長杜微及文化部就「臺鐵如何精進\n服務品質、落實轉型治理、加速資產活化、強化文資保存及提升鐵道美學與功能」進行專題報\n告，並備質詢；二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就「我國軌道建設執行概況」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢；三、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男、數位發展部資通安全署署長及國防部就「國防部財產申報\n作業誤失之問題檢討、應處作為、風險管控及後續強化資安保護」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139001_00004"}}}