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\"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"董\", \"start\": 432.43, \"end\": 432.59, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 432.59, \"end\": 433.131, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 433.131, \"end\": 433.311, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 433.311, \"end\": 433.331, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,244 --> 00:00:07,228\n好謝謝主席那有請臺鐵董事長謝謝好臺鐵杜董事長好委員好董事長午安快速跟您請教基隆這兩天的案子好那你們已經有說了不會拆會原地保留但是我想要從個案來談通案因為我知道臺鐵自己在重規處底下有成立文資科\n\n2\n00:00:29,284 --> 00:00:55,491\n那在你們2022的新聞裡面也有提到說你們會為請很多專家學者甚至結合臺鐵各地的志工盤點相關的文化資產可是屢次只要看到臺鐵跟文資的事情幾乎是有一個新聞事件你們就回應一個新聞事件可是以我縱規這幾年來其實臺鐵對於文資保存這件事情其實我必須說非常的消極\n\n3\n00:00:56,471 --> 00:01:22,637\n就算我們現在有了所謂的鐵舶籌備員處他都是跟文化部有關但是臺鐵自己對於現在狹下不管是硬體或是書面資料或者是很多大家對於文資的想像說實話我相信這可能是在臺鐵轉型之後還來不及立刻面對的議題但是時間一直在走這個文資的困境我想董事長你一定心裡面也知道不能等\n\n4\n00:01:23,337 --> 00:01:35,346\n因為說實話他可能瞬間沒有了就沒有了但是如果每次只是新聞事件以後被罵完那我會覺得很可惜所以董事長你可不可以在有限的時間裡面給我們一個比較全面的承諾對於現在文資科他要嘛是因為層級太低或者是因為法規範的問題\n\n5\n00:01:42,532 --> 00:01:57,584\n或是因為預算不足的問題到底是什麼樣的問題讓臺鐵在文資處理上現在是處於這個狀態那日後我們到底可以怎麼做讓臺鐵的文資這件事情真的可以日後變成臺鐵非常重要的一個亮點\n\n6\n00:01:58,810 --> 00:02:18,190\n跟委員報告其實這個案子來講的話他沒有在我們文資科跟企劃處的狹內我知道因為他不在你們的文資名單上對對對在文資名單上的我們都會依照我們文資科成立的我們還有訂定很多的辦法來去處理\n\n7\n00:02:18,971 --> 00:02:31,511\n那這個個案來跟委員報告這個個案是其實原來基隆站的第一跟第二月台等一下那個董事長因為我時間有限不要耽誤其他委員的時間我都說我沒有要從這個個案來看我要從個案談通案\n\n8\n00:02:34,455 --> 00:02:52,233\n日後臺鐵對於文資保存的態度一個是您所說的他已經在文資的名單上我相信你們會積極的去維護跟保存並且結合專家學者我都相信你們是有這個認知也會有這個態度但是我要談的像基隆這件事情就是因為他不在文資名單上\n\n9\n00:02:53,294 --> 00:03:17,462\n但是他在很多專家學者的眼中他是重要的文資那臺鐵對這件事情的態度所以我剛問是因為文資科目前的層級太低導致於他預算不足人力不足或是法規範不足導致於他沒有辦法好好的做文資還是因為我們大家對於文資的態度認知不同還是說這件事情可能根本不在臺鐵這幾年的重要業務內容當中\n\n10\n00:03:19,421 --> 00:03:36,315\n跟委員報告齁,這個容我講完齁,那個這個兩個月台,基隆兩個月台的這個雨棚齁,其實在前面的過程,我們都有找這個文化局或者是文資局相關單位專家學者辦過會刊的\n\n11\n00:03:37,856 --> 00:03:52,772\n那這個原先有的這些跨數的這個雨棚現在有一部分已經被拆下來保存在基隆市府那邊有一部分被拆下來保留在鐵道館那邊我知道我看了洪老師的臉書\n\n12\n00:03:53,913 --> 00:04:18,786\n剩下這五塊在後面我們還是很慎重我們有去找文資單位來認定說它是不具文化價值所以才會不在我們文資科或者是企劃處的轄管內那這個部分也跟委員報告了那後面我們如果有這種類似這種就是很有很有紀念保存價值的東西我們會擴大範圍就是我們還是會慎重以對\n\n13\n00:04:22,628 --> 00:04:50,879\n然後盡量能夠在前置作業的時候能夠找到更好的方式來對它做個鑑定看是不是要納到我們的文資保護的這個範圍裡面來執行我剛剛也說我們其實在質詢前我們做過功課我們知道你們有文資科我們也知道你們開始列相關名單但是我覺得尷尬就是像這樣不在你們名單當中但是也有很多人認為它是有文資價值的如同你剛剛說的你們的所謂全面盤點要開展嗎\n\n14\n00:04:52,600 --> 00:05:13,878\n而這個盤點除了在名單上不在名單上的要不要開始收集大家的意見而一旦收集了意見你們也要開始去採認又要跟縣市地方政府合作所以我剛剛其實有明白的問你們是不是因為預算不夠的問題還是人力不夠的問題還是因為相關行政的層級太低導致於董事長您在推行相關業務的時候其實是有遇到困難的\n\n15\n00:05:14,418 --> 00:05:38,408\n我的意思是說立法院絕對支持臺鐵做這樣的事情除了在營業項目然後增加營業額之外讓大家看到臺鐵是一個有能力賺錢的公司但是我們也不要忘記臺灣鐵路文化有非常非常多有特色的而且有記憶亮點的事情需要被保存所以我才想請教董事長你如何更全面性的看待這個事情今天我們需要您公開的承諾跟說明這件事情\n\n16\n00:05:40,649 --> 00:06:01,542\n好那跟委員報告剛剛講到有關於專責的人力這個我們現在公司已經有在禁用我們的從業人員其實我們禁用從業人員其實我們公司很有靈活度的現在在文資課的同仁就不是以前鐵路特考進來的人這裡面有很高學歷而且是專長的\n\n17\n00:06:02,623 --> 00:06:21,889\n好,我們非常開心聽到這個那第二個就是預算預算我們公司成立今年開始我們對於文資這個處理的預算我們都有編到我們的一般建築就是我們自己的預算裡面但是我們還有另外一個規劃就是我盤點好以後我們在115年我們會有一個整體計劃我們打算要\n\n18\n00:06:27,211 --> 00:06:45,898\n就是跟文化部那邊來做一個合作把整個計畫把它做出來那也希望文化部那邊能提供我們協助好所以聽起來你們會人力上有增補新的人力並且董事長你的承諾是專業的人力那你們有沒有考慮日後跟專家學者在115這個計畫進行之前辦相關的公聽會或座談會\n\n19\n00:06:49,119 --> 00:07:13,331\n因為我剛說一定有很多文資在你們的政策視野中是不在你的想像中但是在專家學者眼中他是有意義的他需要被保留跟需要被討論的是那個你訂這個計畫是有的好那我們辦公室也會再持續追蹤我覺得你今天董事長今天態度非常正向我們也希望後續相關文資議題的討論我們臺鐵可以一直走在這個方向上好是好謝謝董事長謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2244\t7228\t好謝謝主席那有請臺鐵董事長謝謝好臺鐵杜董事長好委員好董事長午安快速跟您請教基隆這兩天的案子好那你們已經有說了不會拆會原地保留但是我想要從個案來談通案因為我知道臺鐵自己在重規處底下有成立文資科\n29284\t55491\t那在你們2022的新聞裡面也有提到說你們會為請很多專家學者甚至結合臺鐵各地的志工盤點相關的文化資產可是屢次只要看到臺鐵跟文資的事情幾乎是有一個新聞事件你們就回應一個新聞事件可是以我縱規這幾年來其實臺鐵對於文資保存這件事情其實我必須說非常的消極\n56471\t82637\t就算我們現在有了所謂的鐵舶籌備員處他都是跟文化部有關但是臺鐵自己對於現在狹下不管是硬體或是書面資料或者是很多大家對於文資的想像說實話我相信這可能是在臺鐵轉型之後還來不及立刻面對的議題但是時間一直在走這個文資的困境我想董事長你一定心裡面也知道不能等\n83337\t95346\t因為說實話他可能瞬間沒有了就沒有了但是如果每次只是新聞事件以後被罵完那我會覺得很可惜所以董事長你可不可以在有限的時間裡面給我們一個比較全面的承諾對於現在文資科他要嘛是因為層級太低或者是因為法規範的問題\n102532\t117584\t或是因為預算不足的問題到底是什麼樣的問題讓臺鐵在文資處理上現在是處於這個狀態那日後我們到底可以怎麼做讓臺鐵的文資這件事情真的可以日後變成臺鐵非常重要的一個亮點\n118810\t138190\t跟委員報告其實這個案子來講的話他沒有在我們文資科跟企劃處的狹內我知道因為他不在你們的文資名單上對對對在文資名單上的我們都會依照我們文資科成立的我們還有訂定很多的辦法來去處理\n138971\t151511\t那這個個案來跟委員報告這個個案是其實原來基隆站的第一跟第二月台等一下那個董事長因為我時間有限不要耽誤其他委員的時間我都說我沒有要從這個個案來看我要從個案談通案\n154455\t172233\t日後臺鐵對於文資保存的態度一個是您所說的他已經在文資的名單上我相信你們會積極的去維護跟保存並且結合專家學者我都相信你們是有這個認知也會有這個態度但是我要談的像基隆這件事情就是因為他不在文資名單上\n173294\t197462\t但是他在很多專家學者的眼中他是重要的文資那臺鐵對這件事情的態度所以我剛問是因為文資科目前的層級太低導致於他預算不足人力不足或是法規範不足導致於他沒有辦法好好的做文資還是因為我們大家對於文資的態度認知不同還是說這件事情可能根本不在臺鐵這幾年的重要業務內容當中\n199421\t216315\t跟委員報告齁,這個容我講完齁,那個這個兩個月台,基隆兩個月台的這個雨棚齁,其實在前面的過程,我們都有找這個文化局或者是文資局相關單位專家學者辦過會刊的\n217856\t232772\t那這個原先有的這些跨數的這個雨棚現在有一部分已經被拆下來保存在基隆市府那邊有一部分被拆下來保留在鐵道館那邊我知道我看了洪老師的臉書\n233913\t258786\t剩下這五塊在後面我們還是很慎重我們有去找文資單位來認定說它是不具文化價值所以才會不在我們文資科或者是企劃處的轄管內那這個部分也跟委員報告了那後面我們如果有這種類似這種就是很有很有紀念保存價值的東西我們會擴大範圍就是我們還是會慎重以對\n262628\t290879\t然後盡量能夠在前置作業的時候能夠找到更好的方式來對它做個鑑定看是不是要納到我們的文資保護的這個範圍裡面來執行我剛剛也說我們其實在質詢前我們做過功課我們知道你們有文資科我們也知道你們開始列相關名單但是我覺得尷尬就是像這樣不在你們名單當中但是也有很多人認為它是有文資價值的如同你剛剛說的你們的所謂全面盤點要開展嗎\n292600\t313878\t而這個盤點除了在名單上不在名單上的要不要開始收集大家的意見而一旦收集了意見你們也要開始去採認又要跟縣市地方政府合作所以我剛剛其實有明白的問你們是不是因為預算不夠的問題還是人力不夠的問題還是因為相關行政的層級太低導致於董事長您在推行相關業務的時候其實是有遇到困難的\n314418\t338408\t我的意思是說立法院絕對支持臺鐵做這樣的事情除了在營業項目然後增加營業額之外讓大家看到臺鐵是一個有能力賺錢的公司但是我們也不要忘記臺灣鐵路文化有非常非常多有特色的而且有記憶亮點的事情需要被保存所以我才想請教董事長你如何更全面性的看待這個事情今天我們需要您公開的承諾跟說明這件事情\n340649\t361542\t好那跟委員報告剛剛講到有關於專責的人力這個我們現在公司已經有在禁用我們的從業人員其實我們禁用從業人員其實我們公司很有靈活度的現在在文資課的同仁就不是以前鐵路特考進來的人這裡面有很高學歷而且是專長的\n362623\t381889\t好,我們非常開心聽到這個那第二個就是預算預算我們公司成立今年開始我們對於文資這個處理的預算我們都有編到我們的一般建築就是我們自己的預算裡面但是我們還有另外一個規劃就是我盤點好以後我們在115年我們會有一個整體計劃我們打算要\n387211\t405898\t就是跟文化部那邊來做一個合作把整個計畫把它做出來那也希望文化部那邊能提供我們協助好 所以聽起來你們會人力上有增補新的人力並且董事長你的承諾是專業的人力那你們有沒有考慮日後跟專家學者在115這個計畫進行之前辦相關的公聽會或座談會\n409119\t433331\t因為我剛說一定有很多文資在你們的政策視野中是不在你的想像中但是在專家學者眼中他是有意義的他需要被保留跟需要被討論的是 那個你訂這個計畫是有的好 那我們辦公室也會再持續追蹤我覺得你今天 董事長今天態度非常正向我們也希望後續相關文資議題的討論我們臺鐵可以一直走在這個方向上好 是好 謝謝董事長 謝謝主席 謝謝\n","txt":"好謝謝主席那有請臺鐵董事長謝謝好臺鐵杜董事長好委員好董事長午安快速跟您請教基隆這兩天的案子好那你們已經有說了不會拆會原地保留但是我想要從個案來談通案因為我知道臺鐵自己在重規處底下有成立文資科\n那在你們2022的新聞裡面也有提到說你們會為請很多專家學者甚至結合臺鐵各地的志工盤點相關的文化資產可是屢次只要看到臺鐵跟文資的事情幾乎是有一個新聞事件你們就回應一個新聞事件可是以我縱規這幾年來其實臺鐵對於文資保存這件事情其實我必須說非常的消極\n就算我們現在有了所謂的鐵舶籌備員處他都是跟文化部有關但是臺鐵自己對於現在狹下不管是硬體或是書面資料或者是很多大家對於文資的想像說實話我相信這可能是在臺鐵轉型之後還來不及立刻面對的議題但是時間一直在走這個文資的困境我想董事長你一定心裡面也知道不能等\n因為說實話他可能瞬間沒有了就沒有了但是如果每次只是新聞事件以後被罵完那我會覺得很可惜所以董事長你可不可以在有限的時間裡面給我們一個比較全面的承諾對於現在文資科他要嘛是因為層級太低或者是因為法規範的問題\n或是因為預算不足的問題到底是什麼樣的問題讓臺鐵在文資處理上現在是處於這個狀態那日後我們到底可以怎麼做讓臺鐵的文資這件事情真的可以日後變成臺鐵非常重要的一個亮點\n跟委員報告其實這個案子來講的話他沒有在我們文資科跟企劃處的狹內我知道因為他不在你們的文資名單上對對對在文資名單上的我們都會依照我們文資科成立的我們還有訂定很多的辦法來去處理\n那這個個案來跟委員報告這個個案是其實原來基隆站的第一跟第二月台等一下那個董事長因為我時間有限不要耽誤其他委員的時間我都說我沒有要從這個個案來看我要從個案談通案\n日後臺鐵對於文資保存的態度一個是您所說的他已經在文資的名單上我相信你們會積極的去維護跟保存並且結合專家學者我都相信你們是有這個認知也會有這個態度但是我要談的像基隆這件事情就是因為他不在文資名單上\n但是他在很多專家學者的眼中他是重要的文資那臺鐵對這件事情的態度所以我剛問是因為文資科目前的層級太低導致於他預算不足人力不足或是法規範不足導致於他沒有辦法好好的做文資還是因為我們大家對於文資的態度認知不同還是說這件事情可能根本不在臺鐵這幾年的重要業務內容當中\n跟委員報告齁,這個容我講完齁,那個這個兩個月台,基隆兩個月台的這個雨棚齁,其實在前面的過程,我們都有找這個文化局或者是文資局相關單位專家學者辦過會刊的\n那這個原先有的這些跨數的這個雨棚現在有一部分已經被拆下來保存在基隆市府那邊有一部分被拆下來保留在鐵道館那邊我知道我看了洪老師的臉書\n剩下這五塊在後面我們還是很慎重我們有去找文資單位來認定說它是不具文化價值所以才會不在我們文資科或者是企劃處的轄管內那這個部分也跟委員報告了那後面我們如果有這種類似這種就是很有很有紀念保存價值的東西我們會擴大範圍就是我們還是會慎重以對\n然後盡量能夠在前置作業的時候能夠找到更好的方式來對它做個鑑定看是不是要納到我們的文資保護的這個範圍裡面來執行我剛剛也說我們其實在質詢前我們做過功課我們知道你們有文資科我們也知道你們開始列相關名單但是我覺得尷尬就是像這樣不在你們名單當中但是也有很多人認為它是有文資價值的如同你剛剛說的你們的所謂全面盤點要開展嗎\n而這個盤點除了在名單上不在名單上的要不要開始收集大家的意見而一旦收集了意見你們也要開始去採認又要跟縣市地方政府合作所以我剛剛其實有明白的問你們是不是因為預算不夠的問題還是人力不夠的問題還是因為相關行政的層級太低導致於董事長您在推行相關業務的時候其實是有遇到困難的\n我的意思是說立法院絕對支持臺鐵做這樣的事情除了在營業項目然後增加營業額之外讓大家看到臺鐵是一個有能力賺錢的公司但是我們也不要忘記臺灣鐵路文化有非常非常多有特色的而且有記憶亮點的事情需要被保存所以我才想請教董事長你如何更全面性的看待這個事情今天我們需要您公開的承諾跟說明這件事情\n好那跟委員報告剛剛講到有關於專責的人力這個我們現在公司已經有在禁用我們的從業人員其實我們禁用從業人員其實我們公司很有靈活度的現在在文資課的同仁就不是以前鐵路特考進來的人這裡面有很高學歷而且是專長的\n好,我們非常開心聽到這個那第二個就是預算預算我們公司成立今年開始我們對於文資這個處理的預算我們都有編到我們的一般建築就是我們自己的預算裡面但是我們還有另外一個規劃就是我盤點好以後我們在115年我們會有一個整體計劃我們打算要\n就是跟文化部那邊來做一個合作把整個計畫把它做出來那也希望文化部那邊能提供我們協助好 所以聽起來你們會人力上有增補新的人力並且董事長你的承諾是專業的人力那你們有沒有考慮日後跟專家學者在115這個計畫進行之前辦相關的公聽會或座談會\n因為我剛說一定有很多文資在你們的政策視野中是不在你的想像中但是在專家學者眼中他是有意義的他需要被保留跟需要被討論的是 那個你訂這個計畫是有的好 那我們辦公室也會再持續追蹤我覺得你今天 董事長今天態度非常正向我們也希望後續相關文資議題的討論我們臺鐵可以一直走在這個方向上好 是好 謝謝董事長 謝謝主席 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.244 --> 00:07.228\n好謝謝主席那有請臺鐵董事長謝謝好臺鐵杜董事長好委員好董事長午安快速跟您請教基隆這兩天的案子好那你們已經有說了不會拆會原地保留但是我想要從個案來談通案因為我知道臺鐵自己在重規處底下有成立文資科\n\n00:29.284 --> 00:55.491\n那在你們2022的新聞裡面也有提到說你們會為請很多專家學者甚至結合臺鐵各地的志工盤點相關的文化資產可是屢次只要看到臺鐵跟文資的事情幾乎是有一個新聞事件你們就回應一個新聞事件可是以我縱規這幾年來其實臺鐵對於文資保存這件事情其實我必須說非常的消極\n\n00:56.471 --> 01:22.637\n就算我們現在有了所謂的鐵舶籌備員處他都是跟文化部有關但是臺鐵自己對於現在狹下不管是硬體或是書面資料或者是很多大家對於文資的想像說實話我相信這可能是在臺鐵轉型之後還來不及立刻面對的議題但是時間一直在走這個文資的困境我想董事長你一定心裡面也知道不能等\n\n01:23.337 --> 01:35.346\n因為說實話他可能瞬間沒有了就沒有了但是如果每次只是新聞事件以後被罵完那我會覺得很可惜所以董事長你可不可以在有限的時間裡面給我們一個比較全面的承諾對於現在文資科他要嘛是因為層級太低或者是因為法規範的問題\n\n01:42.532 --> 01:57.584\n或是因為預算不足的問題到底是什麼樣的問題讓臺鐵在文資處理上現在是處於這個狀態那日後我們到底可以怎麼做讓臺鐵的文資這件事情真的可以日後變成臺鐵非常重要的一個亮點\n\n01:58.810 --> 02:18.190\n跟委員報告其實這個案子來講的話他沒有在我們文資科跟企劃處的狹內我知道因為他不在你們的文資名單上對對對在文資名單上的我們都會依照我們文資科成立的我們還有訂定很多的辦法來去處理\n\n02:18.971 --> 02:31.511\n那這個個案來跟委員報告這個個案是其實原來基隆站的第一跟第二月台等一下那個董事長因為我時間有限不要耽誤其他委員的時間我都說我沒有要從這個個案來看我要從個案談通案\n\n02:34.455 --> 02:52.233\n日後臺鐵對於文資保存的態度一個是您所說的他已經在文資的名單上我相信你們會積極的去維護跟保存並且結合專家學者我都相信你們是有這個認知也會有這個態度但是我要談的像基隆這件事情就是因為他不在文資名單上\n\n02:53.294 --> 03:17.462\n但是他在很多專家學者的眼中他是重要的文資那臺鐵對這件事情的態度所以我剛問是因為文資科目前的層級太低導致於他預算不足人力不足或是法規範不足導致於他沒有辦法好好的做文資還是因為我們大家對於文資的態度認知不同還是說這件事情可能根本不在臺鐵這幾年的重要業務內容當中\n\n03:19.421 --> 03:36.315\n跟委員報告齁,這個容我講完齁,那個這個兩個月台,基隆兩個月台的這個雨棚齁,其實在前面的過程,我們都有找這個文化局或者是文資局相關單位專家學者辦過會刊的\n\n03:37.856 --> 03:52.772\n那這個原先有的這些跨數的這個雨棚現在有一部分已經被拆下來保存在基隆市府那邊有一部分被拆下來保留在鐵道館那邊我知道我看了洪老師的臉書\n\n03:53.913 --> 04:18.786\n剩下這五塊在後面我們還是很慎重我們有去找文資單位來認定說它是不具文化價值所以才會不在我們文資科或者是企劃處的轄管內那這個部分也跟委員報告了那後面我們如果有這種類似這種就是很有很有紀念保存價值的東西我們會擴大範圍就是我們還是會慎重以對\n\n04:22.628 --> 04:50.879\n然後盡量能夠在前置作業的時候能夠找到更好的方式來對它做個鑑定看是不是要納到我們的文資保護的這個範圍裡面來執行我剛剛也說我們其實在質詢前我們做過功課我們知道你們有文資科我們也知道你們開始列相關名單但是我覺得尷尬就是像這樣不在你們名單當中但是也有很多人認為它是有文資價值的如同你剛剛說的你們的所謂全面盤點要開展嗎\n\n04:52.600 --> 05:13.878\n而這個盤點除了在名單上不在名單上的要不要開始收集大家的意見而一旦收集了意見你們也要開始去採認又要跟縣市地方政府合作所以我剛剛其實有明白的問你們是不是因為預算不夠的問題還是人力不夠的問題還是因為相關行政的層級太低導致於董事長您在推行相關業務的時候其實是有遇到困難的\n\n05:14.418 --> 05:38.408\n我的意思是說立法院絕對支持臺鐵做這樣的事情除了在營業項目然後增加營業額之外讓大家看到臺鐵是一個有能力賺錢的公司但是我們也不要忘記臺灣鐵路文化有非常非常多有特色的而且有記憶亮點的事情需要被保存所以我才想請教董事長你如何更全面性的看待這個事情今天我們需要您公開的承諾跟說明這件事情\n\n05:40.649 --> 06:01.542\n好那跟委員報告剛剛講到有關於專責的人力這個我們現在公司已經有在禁用我們的從業人員其實我們禁用從業人員其實我們公司很有靈活度的現在在文資課的同仁就不是以前鐵路特考進來的人這裡面有很高學歷而且是專長的\n\n06:02.623 --> 06:21.889\n好,我們非常開心聽到這個那第二個就是預算預算我們公司成立今年開始我們對於文資這個處理的預算我們都有編到我們的一般建築就是我們自己的預算裡面但是我們還有另外一個規劃就是我盤點好以後我們在115年我們會有一個整體計劃我們打算要\n\n06:27.211 --> 06:45.898\n就是跟文化部那邊來做一個合作把整個計畫把它做出來那也希望文化部那邊能提供我們協助好所以聽起來你們會人力上有增補新的人力並且董事長你的承諾是專業的人力那你們有沒有考慮日後跟專家學者在115這個計畫進行之前辦相關的公聽會或座談會\n\n06:49.119 --> 07:13.331\n因為我剛說一定有很多文資在你們的政策視野中是不在你的想像中但是在專家學者眼中他是有意義的他需要被保留跟需要被討論的是那個你訂這個計畫是有的好那我們辦公室也會再持續追蹤我覺得你今天董事長今天態度非常正向我們也希望後續相關文資議題的討論我們臺鐵可以一直走在這個方向上好是好謝謝董事長謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.244,"end":7.228,"text":"好謝謝主席那有請臺鐵董事長謝謝好臺鐵杜董事長好委員好董事長午安快速跟您請教基隆這兩天的案子好那你們已經有說了不會拆會原地保留但是我想要從個案來談通案因為我知道臺鐵自己在重規處底下有成立文資科"},{"start":29.284,"end":55.491,"text":"那在你們2022的新聞裡面也有提到說你們會為請很多專家學者甚至結合臺鐵各地的志工盤點相關的文化資產可是屢次只要看到臺鐵跟文資的事情幾乎是有一個新聞事件你們就回應一個新聞事件可是以我縱規這幾年來其實臺鐵對於文資保存這件事情其實我必須說非常的消極"},{"start":56.471,"end":82.637,"text":"就算我們現在有了所謂的鐵舶籌備員處他都是跟文化部有關但是臺鐵自己對於現在狹下不管是硬體或是書面資料或者是很多大家對於文資的想像說實話我相信這可能是在臺鐵轉型之後還來不及立刻面對的議題但是時間一直在走這個文資的困境我想董事長你一定心裡面也知道不能等"},{"start":83.337,"end":95.346,"text":"因為說實話他可能瞬間沒有了就沒有了但是如果每次只是新聞事件以後被罵完那我會覺得很可惜所以董事長你可不可以在有限的時間裡面給我們一個比較全面的承諾對於現在文資科他要嘛是因為層級太低或者是因為法規範的問題"},{"start":102.532,"end":117.584,"text":"或是因為預算不足的問題到底是什麼樣的問題讓臺鐵在文資處理上現在是處於這個狀態那日後我們到底可以怎麼做讓臺鐵的文資這件事情真的可以日後變成臺鐵非常重要的一個亮點"},{"start":118.81,"end":138.19,"text":"跟委員報告其實這個案子來講的話他沒有在我們文資科跟企劃處的狹內我知道因為他不在你們的文資名單上對對對在文資名單上的我們都會依照我們文資科成立的我們還有訂定很多的辦法來去處理"},{"start":138.971,"end":151.511,"text":"那這個個案來跟委員報告這個個案是其實原來基隆站的第一跟第二月台等一下那個董事長因為我時間有限不要耽誤其他委員的時間我都說我沒有要從這個個案來看我要從個案談通案"},{"start":154.455,"end":172.233,"text":"日後臺鐵對於文資保存的態度一個是您所說的他已經在文資的名單上我相信你們會積極的去維護跟保存並且結合專家學者我都相信你們是有這個認知也會有這個態度但是我要談的像基隆這件事情就是因為他不在文資名單上"},{"start":173.294,"end":197.462,"text":"但是他在很多專家學者的眼中他是重要的文資那臺鐵對這件事情的態度所以我剛問是因為文資科目前的層級太低導致於他預算不足人力不足或是法規範不足導致於他沒有辦法好好的做文資還是因為我們大家對於文資的態度認知不同還是說這件事情可能根本不在臺鐵這幾年的重要業務內容當中"},{"start":199.421,"end":216.315,"text":"跟委員報告齁,這個容我講完齁,那個這個兩個月台,基隆兩個月台的這個雨棚齁,其實在前面的過程,我們都有找這個文化局或者是文資局相關單位專家學者辦過會刊的"},{"start":217.856,"end":232.772,"text":"那這個原先有的這些跨數的這個雨棚現在有一部分已經被拆下來保存在基隆市府那邊有一部分被拆下來保留在鐵道館那邊我知道我看了洪老師的臉書"},{"start":233.913,"end":258.786,"text":"剩下這五塊在後面我們還是很慎重我們有去找文資單位來認定說它是不具文化價值所以才會不在我們文資科或者是企劃處的轄管內那這個部分也跟委員報告了那後面我們如果有這種類似這種就是很有很有紀念保存價值的東西我們會擴大範圍就是我們還是會慎重以對"},{"start":262.628,"end":290.879,"text":"然後盡量能夠在前置作業的時候能夠找到更好的方式來對它做個鑑定看是不是要納到我們的文資保護的這個範圍裡面來執行我剛剛也說我們其實在質詢前我們做過功課我們知道你們有文資科我們也知道你們開始列相關名單但是我覺得尷尬就是像這樣不在你們名單當中但是也有很多人認為它是有文資價值的如同你剛剛說的你們的所謂全面盤點要開展嗎"},{"start":292.6,"end":313.878,"text":"而這個盤點除了在名單上不在名單上的要不要開始收集大家的意見而一旦收集了意見你們也要開始去採認又要跟縣市地方政府合作所以我剛剛其實有明白的問你們是不是因為預算不夠的問題還是人力不夠的問題還是因為相關行政的層級太低導致於董事長您在推行相關業務的時候其實是有遇到困難的"},{"start":314.418,"end":338.408,"text":"我的意思是說立法院絕對支持臺鐵做這樣的事情除了在營業項目然後增加營業額之外讓大家看到臺鐵是一個有能力賺錢的公司但是我們也不要忘記臺灣鐵路文化有非常非常多有特色的而且有記憶亮點的事情需要被保存所以我才想請教董事長你如何更全面性的看待這個事情今天我們需要您公開的承諾跟說明這件事情"},{"start":340.649,"end":361.542,"text":"好那跟委員報告剛剛講到有關於專責的人力這個我們現在公司已經有在禁用我們的從業人員其實我們禁用從業人員其實我們公司很有靈活度的現在在文資課的同仁就不是以前鐵路特考進來的人這裡面有很高學歷而且是專長的"},{"start":362.623,"end":381.889,"text":"好,我們非常開心聽到這個那第二個就是預算預算我們公司成立今年開始我們對於文資這個處理的預算我們都有編到我們的一般建築就是我們自己的預算裡面但是我們還有另外一個規劃就是我盤點好以後我們在115年我們會有一個整體計劃我們打算要"},{"start":387.211,"end":405.898,"text":"就是跟文化部那邊來做一個合作把整個計畫把它做出來那也希望文化部那邊能提供我們協助好 所以聽起來你們會人力上有增補新的人力並且董事長你的承諾是專業的人力那你們有沒有考慮日後跟專家學者在115這個計畫進行之前辦相關的公聽會或座談會"},{"start":409.119,"end":433.331,"text":"因為我剛說一定有很多文資在你們的政策視野中是不在你的想像中但是在專家學者眼中他是有意義的他需要被保留跟需要被討論的是 那個你訂這個計畫是有的好 那我們辦公室也會再持續追蹤我覺得你今天 董事長今天態度非常正向我們也希望後續相關文資議題的討論我們臺鐵可以一直走在這個方向上好 是好 謝謝董事長 謝謝主席 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1281,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（13時35分）謝謝主席，有請臺鐵董事長，謝謝。"],["主席：請臺鐵杜董事長。"],["杜董事長微：委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：董事長午安。快速跟您請教基隆這兩天的案子，你們已經有說了不會拆，會原地保留，但是我想要從個案來談通案，因為我知道臺鐵自己在綜規處底下有成立文資科，在你們2022的新聞裡面也有提到，你們會委請很多專家學者，甚至結合臺鐵各地的志工盤點相關的文化資產，可是屢次看到臺鐵只要是跟文資有關的事情，幾乎是有一個新聞事件，你們就回應一個新聞事件，可是如果綜歸這幾年來，我必須說其實臺鐵對於文資保存這件事情非常地消極，就算現在有了所謂的鐵博籌備處，它都是跟文化部有關，但是臺鐵自己對於現在轄下，不管是硬體或是書面資料，或者是很多大家對於文資的想像，說實話，我相信這可能是在臺鐵轉型之後還來不及立刻面對的議題，但是時間一直在走，這個文資的困境我想董事長心裡面一定也知道不能等，因為說實話它可能瞬間沒有就沒有了，但是如果每一次只是新聞事件發生以後被罵完而已，我會覺得很可惜。"],["杜董事長微：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：董事長，所以你可不可以在有限的時間裡面，給我們一個比較全面的承諾？對於現在文資科，要嘛是層級太低，或者是因為法規範的問題，或是因為預算不足的問題，到底是什麼樣的問題，讓臺鐵在文資處理上處於現在這個狀態？日後我們到底可以怎麼做？讓臺鐵的文資這件事情，真的可以在日後變成臺鐵非常重要的一個亮點？"],["杜董事長微：跟委員報告，其實以這個案子來講的話，它沒有在我們文資科跟企劃處的轄內。"],["陳委員培瑜：我知道，因為它不在你們的文資名單上。"],["杜董事長微：對。"],["陳委員培瑜：這個我都知道。"],["杜董事長微：在文資名單上的，我們都會依照我們文資科成立的……我們還有訂定很多的辦法去處理。跟委員報告，這個個案其實是原來基隆站的第一跟第二月台……"],["陳委員培瑜：等一下，董事長，因為我時間有限，我們不要耽誤其他委員的時間。"],["杜董事長微：不好意思。"],["陳委員培瑜：我都說我沒有要從這個個案來看，我要從個案談通案，日後臺鐵對於文資保存的態度，一個是您所說的，它已經在文資名單上的，我相信你們會積極地去維護跟保存，並且結合專家學者，我都相信你們有這個認知，也會有這個態度。但是我要談的是像基隆這件事情，就是因為它不在文資名單上，但是它在很多專家學者眼中是重要的文資，臺鐵對這件事情的態度，所以我剛問，是因為文資科目前的層級太低，導致它預算不足、人力不足，或是法規範不足，導致它沒有辦法好好地做文資保存，還是因為我們大家對於文資的態度、認知不同？還是說這件事情可能根本不在臺鐵這幾年的重要業務內容當中？"],["杜董事長微：跟委員報告，容我講完，基隆這兩個月台的雨棚，其實在前面的過程，我們都有找文化局或是文資局、相關單位、專家學者辦過會勘了，原先有的數跨雨棚，現在有一部分已經被拆下來保存在基隆市府，有一部分被拆下來保留在鐵博館。"],["陳委員培瑜：我知道，我看了洪老師的臉書，我都知道了。"],["杜董事長微：剩下這5跨，後面我們還是很慎重，我們有去找文資單位來認定，它是不具文化價值的，所以才會不在我們文資科或者是企劃處的轄管內，這個部分也跟委員報告，後面我們如果有類似這種，就是很有紀念保存價值的東西，我們會擴大範圍，慎重以對，然後儘量能夠在前置作業的時候找到更好的方式來對它做鑑定，看是不是要納到我們文資保護的範圍裡面來執行。"],["陳委員培瑜：我剛剛也說，我們其實在質詢前做過功課，我們知道你們有文資科，也知道你們有開始列相關名單，但是我覺得尷尬就是像這樣不在你們名單當中，但是也有很多人認為它是有文資價值的，如同你剛剛說的，你們所謂全面盤點要開展嘛！而這個盤點除了在名單上，不在名單上要不要開始蒐集大家的意見？而一旦蒐集了意見，你們也要開始去採認，又要跟縣市地方政府合作。"],["杜董事長微：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以我剛剛其實有明白的問你們，是不是因為預算不夠的問題，還是人力不夠的問題，還是因為相關行政的層級太低，導致於董事長您在推行相關業務的時候，其實是有遇到困難的？我的意思是說，立法院絕對支持臺鐵做這樣的事情，除了在營業項目，然後增加營業額之外，讓大家看到臺鐵是一個有能力賺錢的公司，但是我們也不要忘記臺灣鐵路文化有非常非常多有特色，而且有記憶亮點的事情需要被保存，所以我才想請教董事長，你如何更全面性的看待這個事情？今天我們需要你公開的承諾跟說明。"],["杜董事長微：跟委員報告，剛剛講到有關於專責的人力，我們現在公司已經有在進用從業人員，其實我們公司進用從業人員很有靈活度，現在在文資科的同仁就不是以前鐵路特考進來的人，這裡面有很高學歷而且是專長的，已經有了。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我們非常開心聽到這個進展。"],["杜董事長微：第二個就是預算，我們公司成立今年開始，對於文資處理的預算都有編到我們的一般建築，就是我們自己的預算裡面；但是我們還有另外一個規劃，盤點好以後，在115年會有一個整體計畫，我們打算要跟文化部來做合作，把整個計畫做出來，也希望文化部能提供我們協助。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，所以聽起來你們人力上會有增補新的人力，並且董事長承諾是專業的人力，那你們有沒有考慮日後跟專家學者在115這個計畫進行之前，辦相關的公聽會或座談會？"],["杜董事長微：有、有、有。"],["陳委員培瑜：因為我剛剛說，一定有很多文資在你們的政策視野中，是不在你們想像中，但是在專家學者眼中，它是有意義的、它是需要被保留跟需要被討論的。"],["杜董事長微：是，擬定這個計畫是有的。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我們辦公室也會再持續追蹤，我覺得董事長今天態度非常正向，我們也希望後續相關文資議題的討論，臺鐵可以一直走在這個方向上。"],["杜董事長微：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝董事長，謝謝主席。"],["杜董事長微：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員。","接下來有請鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱、鍾佳濱委員不在。","鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐委員不在。","高金素梅委員、高金素梅、高金素梅委員不在。","接下來有請劉建國委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":288,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-7","speakers":["魯明哲","李昆澤","林國成","許智傑","林沛祥","何欣純","陳素月","林俊憲","徐富癸","蔡其昌","廖先翔","邱若華","陳雪生","郭國文","王育敏","陳亭妃","陳菁徽","徐巧芯","黃國昌","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林月琴","林倩綺","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","陳培瑜","劉建國","游顥","黃健豪"],"page_start":197,"meetingDate":["2024-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1139001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長杜微及文化部就「臺鐵如何精進\n服務品質、落實轉型治理、加速資產活化、強化文資保存及提升鐵道美學與功能」進行專題報\n告，並備質詢；二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就「我國軌道建設執行概況」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢；三、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男、數位發展部資通安全署署長及國防部就「國防部財產申報\n作業誤失之問題檢討、應處作為、風險管控及後續強化資安保護」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139001_00004"}}}