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\"end\": 788.823, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 788.823, \"end\": 789.023, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 789.023, \"end\": 789.183, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"配\", \"start\": 789.183, \"end\": 789.263, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 789.263, \"end\": 789.283, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,049 --> 00:00:24,145\n麻煩請國防部部長請顧部長是陳偉部長好部長最近的重大的國安案件就如王定委有提到這個國防部的個資外流事件那這一次的範圍有多少人受到影響您說沒聽到\n\n2\n00:00:27,266 --> 00:00:54,508\n這次的各資外洩案件有多少人受到影響?」跟委員報告齁他這個部分是這樣子就是說他還是以內部軍網的方式以電子公文的方式發送給這個28個單位所以他還是在內部的這個各成辦單位那所揭露的是那一個他的服務單位職稱跟姓名這樣子這個資料而已沒有其他任何的資料就是\n\n3\n00:00:56,710 --> 00:01:04,656\n單位職稱跟姓名,還是在內部的各程班人員。中國時報知道這個訊息,但是我並不確定他有沒有拿到這樣子的相關的這些文件。\n\n4\n00:01:11,681 --> 00:01:31,830\n我們沒有辦法確定所以接下來要請部長那跟法務部那共同來去確定說是我們在第一時間要做好風險控管就是將那個電子公文已經全數刪除再來就是說第一時間做這個控管大概是從反應到開始控管大概有多少的時間就隔天隔天嘛24小時之後對\n\n5\n00:01:32,850 --> 00:01:53,750\n那我希望說未來這個機制就是等到24小時之後該下載的下載完該把這些手記錄的用手把它記錄下來筆記記錄的大概也都記完了所以我們是希望說這一次就把它當作是經驗反應時間必須要加快第二部分我們會檢討這個相關的數字法務部聯政署的政風室的人員那這個承辦人員的機密層級是什麼機密絕對機密\n\n6\n00:01:56,913 --> 00:02:22,870\n您說這個鎮瘋市的他的解密成績他的解密成績clearance他的解密成績是什麼我想他這個因為他相關的這些資料的話他在鎮瘋市的話他有一定的一個見面人那實際的一個解密的成績我想我們回去再檢討一下謝謝部長我還是希望說回去檢討一下說如果他能夠碰觸到的\n\n7\n00:02:23,610 --> 00:02:38,969\n據媒體報導是直接從部長參謀總長到上校階級的將官那他的揭秘成績必須要非常高但是他如果只是一個正風式的承辦那到底是由法務部來去定義他的揭秘成績還是國防部我想這個以後要有一個完整的系統來規範\n\n8\n00:02:40,871 --> 00:03:05,454\n他如果是一個承辦人員但是他接觸到密等是最高機密但是我們給他安排的密等因為是法務部的政風是可能過去的依照他的位階可能給他安排的密等是機密那等於是說這就不符合這樣子的機制所以這個部分我是希望能夠來去做調整這個介密層級這個部分已經講很久了從2016年到現在就是\n\n9\n00:03:06,795 --> 00:03:30,684\n這個要確保一下這個不是小的案件資安不是只有科技的技術而已人因的因素還是很重要的這是這次的範圍因為我想部長也不方便透露到底有多少人受到影響但是如果範圍很大那我們很難去追蹤到他們接收到知曉之後除了媒體知道有這件事還是知道有這些人還是知道有這些人他們做什麼事情\n\n10\n00:03:31,184 --> 00:03:55,854\n那這個可能是接下來這一兩個月可能要聯合法務部一起來去做檢討好不好?跟委員報告第一個當然是法務部聯政署會做一個行政調查第二個當然就是說因為相關的這個還是在內網的範圍之內那第三個當然就是說它所出去的這個部分是包括單位名稱、職稱跟姓名那有些部分並不是機密比如說像我\n\n11\n00:03:56,454 --> 00:03:58,336\n國防部、國防部長、國防部長、國防部長\n\n12\n00:04:18,755 --> 00:04:38,724\n灰色地帶的侵擾我們這次也提到封鎖跟隔離那上一次我們是針對封鎖的部分花比較多的時間這次想針對隔離的部分那部長也知道說現在隔離的處置就不是軍事上用軍艦或者是直接用軍隊來去做這個全面性的封鎖那所以說他可能他\n\n13\n00:04:40,195 --> 00:04:56,979\n中國可以用去棄毒、去查走私、做公衛檢疫、搜尋逃犯等於是用這樣的方式還是可以達成接近封鎖的做法目前我看我們現在根據這個CSIS的資料把這個相關的中國的\n\n14\n00:05:01,420 --> 00:05:27,531\n海警的盾位和船艦的數量來做比較的話我們台灣的海巡基本上是遠遠的不足但是另一方面我們也必須思考說他必須在守衛的是他們整個非常大的海岸線那我們台灣只要守衛台灣就好那我專為一嘛所以我們的資源可以做更有效的運用現在的這樣子的海巡的能量\n\n15\n00:05:28,795 --> 00:05:43,545\n國防部有沒有可能提供退役的盾位的船艦以及聯繫友好的國家來去取得其他國家的相關的這種海巡的這種不是軍艦但是能夠直巡海巡的船艦\n\n16\n00:05:46,124 --> 00:05:59,984\n我覺得海巡跟其他國家的合作並不是由我來回答而且這個部分也不是以公開來過於討論我當然是有些理解可能這個是要由海巡來回答但\n\n17\n00:06:01,566 --> 00:06:29,284\n我個人會覺得可能也不是以來公開來做說明中國的海警他是基本上從他們的國防部接收大量的退役他們的軍艦來擴充他們現在新造的艦也很多對那我的意思是說如果中國可以大量的利用他們退役的軍艦的話我們國防部有沒有可能因為我們現在必須第一時間要因應的就是灰色地帶有沒有相關可以跟海巡把這些相關退役船艦來移交給海巡的可能性\n\n18\n00:06:30,796 --> 00:06:51,006\n他跟委員報告,我們自己現在都要來應付灰色地帶,我們要進行清洗循環界的造鑑所以我們應處灰色地帶,確實中國一個對我們非常大的挑戰是在對我們進行一些消耗戰這個是無可否認的一個事實,所以我們要是適切的來應處\n\n19\n00:06:51,806 --> 00:07:07,388\n那對於這種灰色地帶洗澡我們要跟海巡來共同協處那海巡當然現在有相當的一個燒素的一個新建的建造的計畫正在執行當中就會不斷的會有比較大型的軍艦\n\n20\n00:07:08,650 --> 00:07:22,148\n有幾位委員提到空中的能量所以我們海巡這邊沒有定義機這樣子去協助那有沒有可能考慮與民間合作用租借的方式來去暫時把這個空中的力量做彌補\n\n21\n00:07:23,716 --> 00:07:38,749\n我想我們應該海軍會來協助海巡做這個相關的見證的這個活動那我們也會來發展這個相關的這些以無人機的方式來做這個空中的見證的這個作為\n\n22\n00:07:40,964 --> 00:07:56,612\n好謝謝那如果在另外的部分全動數它是在11年1月它成立那11年2月開始檢討醫療的量能那在今年我們在看到5月的時候全台的輸液藥物大缺貨\n\n23\n00:07:57,532 --> 00:08:11,921\n不知道這個部分國防部的這個全動數有沒有整合相關的資源來了解到有這樣的狀況之前有先檢測到有可能會有這樣子的情勢發生嗎因為現在是在成平時期喔\n\n24\n00:08:12,776 --> 00:08:34,427\n那根據這個衛福部他把最新的這個資料給我們他說9月的時候食藥署說10月底前還是沒有辦法恢復生產比如說我們全動數也好或者是說我之前也是在質詢這個退福會的時候我們都說有定期來去確保說我們的醫療量能那基本上都是足夠的可是現在在成名時期\n\n25\n00:08:35,427 --> 00:09:01,707\n都有這樣的問題是不是可以請衛福部來簡單的回應一下跟國防部之間的資訊是怎麼樣整合的好謝謝委員先跟委員報告就是說其實跟國防部這邊我們之前有一些相關的國家必要戰備藥材還有一些必要藥材的部分事實上是有一些囤儲那也很抱歉就是說在生理食品水這個部分因為其實過去生理食品水是一個很普遍而且有非常多家廠商在生產的一個產品\n\n26\n00:09:02,748 --> 00:09:22,249\n所以這個部分過去並沒有被列在EssentialDrugs必要藥品在聯合國也沒有但是這次的狀況比較特別是說因為永豐它是戰事戰七成的一個廠商所以當它因為品管的部分沒有辦法通過我們後續的核定的時候那出現了七成的產品沒有辦法供應所以才會出現市面上的短缺的問題\n\n27\n00:09:23,350 --> 00:09:44,998\n這個部分衛福部這邊也謝謝大家能夠同意讓我們用專案進口的方式先用國外的產品先來致應那國內我們有很多家廠商他原來佔三成那些廠商他們也幫我們加工加班那做了因應的部分那目前我們持續的輔導這家廠商那廠商這邊已經在大包裝的沖洗液都已經可以完成已經標準了\n\n28\n00:09:45,998 --> 00:10:11,115\n所以它已經開始在供應了大包裝沖洗液的部分那在典基的部分就打進身體的部分當然我們的標準還是比較嚴格一點所以說在進入身體的這個所謂注射液的部分我們目前最快的進度在11月底可以去確認它的這個包含它的這些相關的品管那11月底如果能夠確認品管的話我們應該可以在12月開始這一家原來供應七成的廠商可以供應謝謝次長您這個\n\n29\n00:10:14,037 --> 00:10:41,580\n解釋得非常完善我簡單跟部長講一下就是說我們現在做的每件事情做國防的準備在經濟上面都是沒有效益的經濟上面沒有效益是在過去我們的這個工業社會來講我們要全力追求效益最大化但是我們現在做的事情不應該追求效益最大化因為我們要面臨的是可能會遇到的衝突可能會遇到的封鎖可能會遇到的隔離所以我們必須要事先先思考說這可能對我們的經濟效益是\n\n30\n00:10:42,381 --> 00:11:10,620\n沒有幫助的因為任何的囤積本身就是經濟效益是不會滿足的所以這個是這個mindset我們要先準備好所以如果說我們要花這麼多心力要到10月、12月的時候才可以把它完成的滿足我們現在的需求的話那所以說整個整備的過程是更加困難的所以我今天講的這個全動數我不是在攻擊全動數我覺得這是要還好我們兩年前就開始在做這些準備的所以我們現在才可以站在這個質詢台來質詢說我們現在部署的地方\n\n31\n00:11:12,581 --> 00:11:25,232\n那未來的兩年三年會隨著每一次的質詢每一次我們的精進我們才會有足夠的能量去量能去做調配嗎那接下來請那個農業部請副市長\n\n32\n00:11:38,922 --> 00:11:57,813\n副長根據美國交通大學聖利亞格分校最新資訊糧食供需年報他說台灣的糧食自給率現在是30.3%創下18年新低我想請教因為飲食的需求是改變的所以說包括雜糧的自給率也是在降低\n\n33\n00:11:58,833 --> 00:12:09,164\n現在除了倒座四選三、雜糧二轉等政策,農業部有沒有辦法適度把倒座面積轉為雜糧面積,讓我們的自給率更加平衡,就是說不是只有夠,而且還要多元?\n\n34\n00:12:10,779 --> 00:12:29,668\n好那這邊回復委員那其實在農業部其實也在進行一級二轉3加3的部分其中在二轉事實上就是就我們現行雜糧比較不足的部分去做所謂的雜糧面積的一個擴展那把原本倒做的部分本來可能比較不是在這方面生產我們轉做雜糧部分來擴展這個面積\n\n35\n00:12:32,009 --> 00:12:52,210\n對,那這個地方要請教因為平時黃豆、小麥、玉米的進口跟庫存是經濟部負責那米的部分是由農業部所以剛才我們詢問幾個聯絡國會的人提供給我們的資料那遇到這個緊急狀態整體的糧食物資調備是由經濟部、農業部還是權動署來去做分配工作的協調\n\n36\n00:12:54,012 --> 00:13:09,283\n跟委員報告其實我們農業部就整個我們的庫存會定期的一個盤點那整個相關的一個剛剛就我們的一個供應的部分我們來負責那至於相關的一個配售整體的部分我們當然經濟部做民生物資的一個整個調配好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n49\t24145\t麻煩請國防部部長請顧部長是 陳偉部長好 部長最近的重大的國安案件就如王定委有提到這個國防部的個資外流事件那這一次的範圍有多少人受到影響您說沒聽到\n27266\t54508\t這次的各資外洩案件有多少人受到影響?」跟委員報告齁他這個部分是這樣子就是說他還是以內部軍網的方式以電子公文的方式發送給這個28個單位所以他還是在內部的這個各成辦單位那所揭露的是那一個他的服務單位職稱跟姓名這樣子這個資料而已沒有其他任何的資料就是\n56710\t64656\t單位職稱跟姓名,還是在內部的各程班人員。中國時報知道這個訊息,但是我並不確定他有沒有拿到這樣子的相關的這些文件。\n71681\t91830\t我們沒有辦法確定所以接下來要請部長那跟法務部那共同來去確定說是我們在第一時間要做好風險控管就是將那個電子公文已經全數刪除再來就是說第一時間做這個控管大概是從反應到開始控管大概有多少的時間就隔天隔天嘛24小時之後對\n92850\t113750\t那我希望說未來這個機制就是等到24小時之後該下載的下載完該把這些手記錄的用手把它記錄下來筆記記錄的大概也都記完了所以我們是希望說這一次就把它當作是經驗反應時間必須要加快第二部分我們會檢討這個相關的數字法務部聯政署的政風室的人員那這個承辦人員的機密層級是什麼機密 絕對機密\n116913\t142870\t您說這個鎮瘋市的他的解密成績他的解密成績clearance他的解密成績是什麼我想他這個因為他相關的這些資料的話他在鎮瘋市的話他有一定的一個見面人那實際的一個解密的成績我想我們回去再檢討一下謝謝部長我還是希望說回去檢討一下說如果他能夠碰觸到的\n143610\t158969\t據媒體報導是直接從部長參謀總長到上校階級的將官那他的揭秘成績必須要非常高但是他如果只是一個正風式的承辦那到底是由法務部來去定義他的揭秘成績還是國防部我想這個以後要有一個完整的系統來規範\n160871\t185454\t他如果是一個承辦人員但是他接觸到密等是最高機密但是我們給他安排的密等因為是法務部的政風是可能過去的依照他的位階可能給他安排的密等是機密那等於是說這就不符合這樣子的機制所以這個部分我是希望能夠來去做調整這個介密層級這個部分已經講很久了從2016年到現在就是\n186795\t210684\t這個要確保一下 這個不是小的案件資安不是只有科技的技術而已 人因的因素還是很重要的這是這次的範圍 因為我想部長也不方便透露到底有多少人受到影響但是如果範圍很大 那我們很難去追蹤到他們接收到知曉之後除了媒體知道有這件事 還是知道有這些人還是知道有這些人他們做什麼事情\n211184\t235854\t那這個可能是接下來這一兩個月可能要聯合法務部一起來去做檢討好不好?跟委員報告第一個當然是法務部聯政署會做一個行政調查第二個當然就是說因為相關的這個還是在內網的範圍之內那第三個當然就是說它所出去的這個部分是包括單位名稱、職稱跟姓名那有些部分並不是機密比如說像我\n236454\t238336\t國防部、國防部長、國防部長、國防部長\n258755\t278724\t灰色地帶的侵擾我們這次也提到封鎖跟隔離那上一次我們是針對封鎖的部分花比較多的時間這次想針對隔離的部分那部長也知道說現在隔離的處置就不是軍事上用軍艦或者是直接用軍隊來去做這個全面性的封鎖那所以說他可能他\n280195\t296979\t中國可以用去棄毒、去查走私、做公衛檢疫、搜尋逃犯等於是用這樣的方式還是可以達成接近封鎖的做法目前我看我們現在根據這個CSIS的資料把這個相關的中國的\n301420\t327531\t海警的盾位和船艦的數量來做比較的話我們台灣的海巡基本上是遠遠的不足但是另一方面我們也必須思考說他必須在守衛的是他們整個非常大的海岸線那我們台灣只要守衛台灣就好那我專為一嘛所以我們的資源可以做更有效的運用現在的這樣子的海巡的能量\n328795\t343545\t國防部有沒有可能提供退役的盾位的船艦以及聯繫友好的國家來去取得其他國家的相關的這種海巡的這種不是軍艦但是能夠直巡海巡的船艦\n346124\t359984\t我覺得海巡跟其他國家的合作並不是由我來回答而且這個部分也不是以公開來過於討論我當然是有些理解可能這個是要由海巡來回答但\n361566\t389284\t我個人會覺得可能也不是以來公開來做說明中國的海警他是基本上從他們的國防部接收大量的退役他們的軍艦來擴充他們現在新造的艦也很多對 那我的意思是說如果中國可以大量的利用他們退役的軍艦的話我們國防部有沒有可能因為我們現在必須第一時間要因應的就是灰色地帶有沒有相關可以跟海巡把這些相關退役船艦來移交給海巡的可能性\n390796\t411006\t他跟委員報告,我們自己現在都要來應付灰色地帶,我們要進行清洗循環界的造鑑所以我們應處灰色地帶,確實中國一個對我們非常大的挑戰是在對我們進行一些消耗戰這個是無可否認的一個事實,所以我們要是適切的來應處\n411806\t427388\t那對於這種灰色地帶洗澡我們要跟海巡來共同協處那海巡當然現在有相當的一個燒素的一個新建的建造的計畫正在執行當中就會不斷的會有比較大型的軍艦\n428650\t442148\t有幾位委員提到空中的能量所以我們海巡這邊沒有定義機這樣子去協助那有沒有可能考慮與民間合作用租借的方式來去暫時把這個空中的力量做彌補\n443716\t458749\t我想我們應該海軍會來協助海巡做這個相關的見證的這個活動那我們也會來發展這個相關的這些以無人機的方式來做這個空中的見證的這個作為\n460964\t476612\t好 謝謝那如果在另外的部分全動數它是在11年1月它成立那11年2月開始檢討醫療的量能那在今年我們在看到5月的時候全台的輸液藥物大缺貨\n477532\t491921\t不知道這個部分國防部的這個全動數有沒有整合相關的資源來了解到有這樣的狀況之前有先檢測到有可能會有這樣子的情勢發生嗎因為現在是在成平時期喔\n492776\t514427\t那根據這個衛福部他把最新的這個資料給我們他說9月的時候食藥署說10月底前還是沒有辦法恢復生產比如說我們全動數也好或者是說我之前也是在質詢這個退福會的時候我們都說有定期來去確保說我們的醫療量能那基本上都是足夠的可是現在在成名時期\n515427\t541707\t都有這樣的問題是不是可以請衛福部來簡單的回應一下跟國防部之間的資訊是怎麼樣整合的好 謝謝委員先跟委員報告就是說其實跟國防部這邊我們之前有一些相關的國家必要戰備藥材還有一些必要藥材的部分事實上是有一些囤儲那也很抱歉就是說在生理食品水這個部分因為其實過去生理食品水是一個很普遍而且有非常多家廠商在生產的一個產品\n542748\t562249\t所以這個部分過去並沒有被列在Essential Drugs必要藥品在聯合國也沒有但是這次的狀況比較特別是說因為永豐它是戰事戰七成的一個廠商所以當它因為品管的部分沒有辦法通過我們後續的核定的時候那出現了七成的產品沒有辦法供應所以才會出現市面上的短缺的問題\n563350\t584998\t這個部分衛福部這邊也謝謝大家能夠同意讓我們用專案進口的方式先用國外的產品先來致應那國內我們有很多家廠商他原來佔三成那些廠商他們也幫我們加工加班那做了因應的部分那目前我們持續的輔導這家廠商那廠商這邊已經在大包裝的沖洗液都已經可以完成已經標準了\n585998\t611115\t所以它已經開始在供應了大包裝沖洗液的部分那在典基的部分就打進身體的部分當然我們的標準還是比較嚴格一點所以說在進入身體的這個所謂注射液的部分我們目前最快的進度在11月底可以去確認它的這個包含它的這些相關的品管那11月底如果能夠確認品管的話我們應該可以在12月開始這一家原來供應七成的廠商可以供應謝謝次長您這個\n614037\t641580\t解釋得非常完善我簡單跟部長講一下就是說我們現在做的每件事情做國防的準備在經濟上面都是沒有效益的經濟上面沒有效益是在過去我們的這個工業社會來講我們要全力追求效益最大化但是我們現在做的事情不應該追求效益最大化因為我們要面臨的是可能會遇到的衝突可能會遇到的封鎖可能會遇到的隔離所以我們必須要事先先思考說這可能對我們的經濟效益是\n642381\t670620\t沒有幫助的因為任何的囤積本身就是經濟效益是不會滿足的所以這個是這個mindset我們要先準備好所以如果說我們要花這麼多心力要到10月、12月的時候才可以把它完成的滿足我們現在的需求的話那所以說整個整備的過程是更加困難的所以我今天講的這個全動數我不是在攻擊全動數我覺得這是要還好我們兩年前就開始在做這些準備的所以我們現在才可以站在這個質詢台來質詢說我們現在部署的地方\n672581\t685232\t那未來的兩年三年會隨著每一次的質詢每一次我們的精進我們才會有足夠的能量去量能去做調配嗎那接下來請那個農業部請副市長\n698922\t717813\t副長根據美國交通大學聖利亞格分校最新資訊糧食供需年報他說台灣的糧食自給率現在是30.3%創下18年新低我想請教因為飲食的需求是改變的所以說包括雜糧的自給率也是在降低\n718833\t729164\t現在除了倒座四選三、雜糧二轉等政策,農業部有沒有辦法適度把倒座面積轉為雜糧面積,讓我們的自給率更加平衡,就是說不是只有夠,而且還要多元?\n730779\t749668\t好那這邊回復委員那其實在農業部其實也在進行一級二轉3加3的部分其中在二轉事實上就是就我們現行雜糧比較不足的部分去做所謂的雜糧面積的一個擴展那把原本倒做的部分本來可能比較不是在這方面生產我們轉做雜糧部分來擴展這個面積\n752009\t772210\t對,那這個地方要請教因為平時黃豆、小麥、玉米的進口跟庫存是經濟部負責那米的部分是由農業部所以剛才我們詢問幾個聯絡國會的人提供給我們的資料那遇到這個緊急狀態整體的糧食物資調備是由經濟部、農業部還是權動署來去做分配工作的協調\n774012\t789283\t跟委員報告其實我們農業部就整個我們的庫存會定期的一個盤點那整個相關的一個剛剛就我們的一個供應的部分我們來負責那至於相關的一個配售整體的部分我們當然經濟部做民生物資的一個整個調配好 謝謝\n","txt":"麻煩請國防部部長請顧部長是 陳偉部長好 部長最近的重大的國安案件就如王定委有提到這個國防部的個資外流事件那這一次的範圍有多少人受到影響您說沒聽到\n這次的各資外洩案件有多少人受到影響?」跟委員報告齁他這個部分是這樣子就是說他還是以內部軍網的方式以電子公文的方式發送給這個28個單位所以他還是在內部的這個各成辦單位那所揭露的是那一個他的服務單位職稱跟姓名這樣子這個資料而已沒有其他任何的資料就是\n單位職稱跟姓名,還是在內部的各程班人員。中國時報知道這個訊息,但是我並不確定他有沒有拿到這樣子的相關的這些文件。\n我們沒有辦法確定所以接下來要請部長那跟法務部那共同來去確定說是我們在第一時間要做好風險控管就是將那個電子公文已經全數刪除再來就是說第一時間做這個控管大概是從反應到開始控管大概有多少的時間就隔天隔天嘛24小時之後對\n那我希望說未來這個機制就是等到24小時之後該下載的下載完該把這些手記錄的用手把它記錄下來筆記記錄的大概也都記完了所以我們是希望說這一次就把它當作是經驗反應時間必須要加快第二部分我們會檢討這個相關的數字法務部聯政署的政風室的人員那這個承辦人員的機密層級是什麼機密 絕對機密\n您說這個鎮瘋市的他的解密成績他的解密成績clearance他的解密成績是什麼我想他這個因為他相關的這些資料的話他在鎮瘋市的話他有一定的一個見面人那實際的一個解密的成績我想我們回去再檢討一下謝謝部長我還是希望說回去檢討一下說如果他能夠碰觸到的\n據媒體報導是直接從部長參謀總長到上校階級的將官那他的揭秘成績必須要非常高但是他如果只是一個正風式的承辦那到底是由法務部來去定義他的揭秘成績還是國防部我想這個以後要有一個完整的系統來規範\n他如果是一個承辦人員但是他接觸到密等是最高機密但是我們給他安排的密等因為是法務部的政風是可能過去的依照他的位階可能給他安排的密等是機密那等於是說這就不符合這樣子的機制所以這個部分我是希望能夠來去做調整這個介密層級這個部分已經講很久了從2016年到現在就是\n這個要確保一下 這個不是小的案件資安不是只有科技的技術而已 人因的因素還是很重要的這是這次的範圍 因為我想部長也不方便透露到底有多少人受到影響但是如果範圍很大 那我們很難去追蹤到他們接收到知曉之後除了媒體知道有這件事 還是知道有這些人還是知道有這些人他們做什麼事情\n那這個可能是接下來這一兩個月可能要聯合法務部一起來去做檢討好不好?跟委員報告第一個當然是法務部聯政署會做一個行政調查第二個當然就是說因為相關的這個還是在內網的範圍之內那第三個當然就是說它所出去的這個部分是包括單位名稱、職稱跟姓名那有些部分並不是機密比如說像我\n國防部、國防部長、國防部長、國防部長\n灰色地帶的侵擾我們這次也提到封鎖跟隔離那上一次我們是針對封鎖的部分花比較多的時間這次想針對隔離的部分那部長也知道說現在隔離的處置就不是軍事上用軍艦或者是直接用軍隊來去做這個全面性的封鎖那所以說他可能他\n中國可以用去棄毒、去查走私、做公衛檢疫、搜尋逃犯等於是用這樣的方式還是可以達成接近封鎖的做法目前我看我們現在根據這個CSIS的資料把這個相關的中國的\n海警的盾位和船艦的數量來做比較的話我們台灣的海巡基本上是遠遠的不足但是另一方面我們也必須思考說他必須在守衛的是他們整個非常大的海岸線那我們台灣只要守衛台灣就好那我專為一嘛所以我們的資源可以做更有效的運用現在的這樣子的海巡的能量\n國防部有沒有可能提供退役的盾位的船艦以及聯繫友好的國家來去取得其他國家的相關的這種海巡的這種不是軍艦但是能夠直巡海巡的船艦\n我覺得海巡跟其他國家的合作並不是由我來回答而且這個部分也不是以公開來過於討論我當然是有些理解可能這個是要由海巡來回答但\n我個人會覺得可能也不是以來公開來做說明中國的海警他是基本上從他們的國防部接收大量的退役他們的軍艦來擴充他們現在新造的艦也很多對 那我的意思是說如果中國可以大量的利用他們退役的軍艦的話我們國防部有沒有可能因為我們現在必須第一時間要因應的就是灰色地帶有沒有相關可以跟海巡把這些相關退役船艦來移交給海巡的可能性\n他跟委員報告,我們自己現在都要來應付灰色地帶,我們要進行清洗循環界的造鑑所以我們應處灰色地帶,確實中國一個對我們非常大的挑戰是在對我們進行一些消耗戰這個是無可否認的一個事實,所以我們要是適切的來應處\n那對於這種灰色地帶洗澡我們要跟海巡來共同協處那海巡當然現在有相當的一個燒素的一個新建的建造的計畫正在執行當中就會不斷的會有比較大型的軍艦\n有幾位委員提到空中的能量所以我們海巡這邊沒有定義機這樣子去協助那有沒有可能考慮與民間合作用租借的方式來去暫時把這個空中的力量做彌補\n我想我們應該海軍會來協助海巡做這個相關的見證的這個活動那我們也會來發展這個相關的這些以無人機的方式來做這個空中的見證的這個作為\n好 謝謝那如果在另外的部分全動數它是在11年1月它成立那11年2月開始檢討醫療的量能那在今年我們在看到5月的時候全台的輸液藥物大缺貨\n不知道這個部分國防部的這個全動數有沒有整合相關的資源來了解到有這樣的狀況之前有先檢測到有可能會有這樣子的情勢發生嗎因為現在是在成平時期喔\n那根據這個衛福部他把最新的這個資料給我們他說9月的時候食藥署說10月底前還是沒有辦法恢復生產比如說我們全動數也好或者是說我之前也是在質詢這個退福會的時候我們都說有定期來去確保說我們的醫療量能那基本上都是足夠的可是現在在成名時期\n都有這樣的問題是不是可以請衛福部來簡單的回應一下跟國防部之間的資訊是怎麼樣整合的好 謝謝委員先跟委員報告就是說其實跟國防部這邊我們之前有一些相關的國家必要戰備藥材還有一些必要藥材的部分事實上是有一些囤儲那也很抱歉就是說在生理食品水這個部分因為其實過去生理食品水是一個很普遍而且有非常多家廠商在生產的一個產品\n所以這個部分過去並沒有被列在Essential Drugs必要藥品在聯合國也沒有但是這次的狀況比較特別是說因為永豐它是戰事戰七成的一個廠商所以當它因為品管的部分沒有辦法通過我們後續的核定的時候那出現了七成的產品沒有辦法供應所以才會出現市面上的短缺的問題\n這個部分衛福部這邊也謝謝大家能夠同意讓我們用專案進口的方式先用國外的產品先來致應那國內我們有很多家廠商他原來佔三成那些廠商他們也幫我們加工加班那做了因應的部分那目前我們持續的輔導這家廠商那廠商這邊已經在大包裝的沖洗液都已經可以完成已經標準了\n所以它已經開始在供應了大包裝沖洗液的部分那在典基的部分就打進身體的部分當然我們的標準還是比較嚴格一點所以說在進入身體的這個所謂注射液的部分我們目前最快的進度在11月底可以去確認它的這個包含它的這些相關的品管那11月底如果能夠確認品管的話我們應該可以在12月開始這一家原來供應七成的廠商可以供應謝謝次長您這個\n解釋得非常完善我簡單跟部長講一下就是說我們現在做的每件事情做國防的準備在經濟上面都是沒有效益的經濟上面沒有效益是在過去我們的這個工業社會來講我們要全力追求效益最大化但是我們現在做的事情不應該追求效益最大化因為我們要面臨的是可能會遇到的衝突可能會遇到的封鎖可能會遇到的隔離所以我們必須要事先先思考說這可能對我們的經濟效益是\n沒有幫助的因為任何的囤積本身就是經濟效益是不會滿足的所以這個是這個mindset我們要先準備好所以如果說我們要花這麼多心力要到10月、12月的時候才可以把它完成的滿足我們現在的需求的話那所以說整個整備的過程是更加困難的所以我今天講的這個全動數我不是在攻擊全動數我覺得這是要還好我們兩年前就開始在做這些準備的所以我們現在才可以站在這個質詢台來質詢說我們現在部署的地方\n那未來的兩年三年會隨著每一次的質詢每一次我們的精進我們才會有足夠的能量去量能去做調配嗎那接下來請那個農業部請副市長\n副長根據美國交通大學聖利亞格分校最新資訊糧食供需年報他說台灣的糧食自給率現在是30.3%創下18年新低我想請教因為飲食的需求是改變的所以說包括雜糧的自給率也是在降低\n現在除了倒座四選三、雜糧二轉等政策,農業部有沒有辦法適度把倒座面積轉為雜糧面積,讓我們的自給率更加平衡,就是說不是只有夠,而且還要多元?\n好那這邊回復委員那其實在農業部其實也在進行一級二轉3加3的部分其中在二轉事實上就是就我們現行雜糧比較不足的部分去做所謂的雜糧面積的一個擴展那把原本倒做的部分本來可能比較不是在這方面生產我們轉做雜糧部分來擴展這個面積\n對,那這個地方要請教因為平時黃豆、小麥、玉米的進口跟庫存是經濟部負責那米的部分是由農業部所以剛才我們詢問幾個聯絡國會的人提供給我們的資料那遇到這個緊急狀態整體的糧食物資調備是由經濟部、農業部還是權動署來去做分配工作的協調\n跟委員報告其實我們農業部就整個我們的庫存會定期的一個盤點那整個相關的一個剛剛就我們的一個供應的部分我們來負責那至於相關的一個配售整體的部分我們當然經濟部做民生物資的一個整個調配好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.049 --> 00:24.145\n麻煩請國防部部長請顧部長是陳偉部長好部長最近的重大的國安案件就如王定委有提到這個國防部的個資外流事件那這一次的範圍有多少人受到影響您說沒聽到\n\n00:27.266 --> 00:54.508\n這次的各資外洩案件有多少人受到影響?」跟委員報告齁他這個部分是這樣子就是說他還是以內部軍網的方式以電子公文的方式發送給這個28個單位所以他還是在內部的這個各成辦單位那所揭露的是那一個他的服務單位職稱跟姓名這樣子這個資料而已沒有其他任何的資料就是\n\n00:56.710 --> 01:04.656\n單位職稱跟姓名,還是在內部的各程班人員。中國時報知道這個訊息,但是我並不確定他有沒有拿到這樣子的相關的這些文件。\n\n01:11.681 --> 01:31.830\n我們沒有辦法確定所以接下來要請部長那跟法務部那共同來去確定說是我們在第一時間要做好風險控管就是將那個電子公文已經全數刪除再來就是說第一時間做這個控管大概是從反應到開始控管大概有多少的時間就隔天隔天嘛24小時之後對\n\n01:32.850 --> 01:53.750\n那我希望說未來這個機制就是等到24小時之後該下載的下載完該把這些手記錄的用手把它記錄下來筆記記錄的大概也都記完了所以我們是希望說這一次就把它當作是經驗反應時間必須要加快第二部分我們會檢討這個相關的數字法務部聯政署的政風室的人員那這個承辦人員的機密層級是什麼機密絕對機密\n\n01:56.913 --> 02:22.870\n您說這個鎮瘋市的他的解密成績他的解密成績clearance他的解密成績是什麼我想他這個因為他相關的這些資料的話他在鎮瘋市的話他有一定的一個見面人那實際的一個解密的成績我想我們回去再檢討一下謝謝部長我還是希望說回去檢討一下說如果他能夠碰觸到的\n\n02:23.610 --> 02:38.969\n據媒體報導是直接從部長參謀總長到上校階級的將官那他的揭秘成績必須要非常高但是他如果只是一個正風式的承辦那到底是由法務部來去定義他的揭秘成績還是國防部我想這個以後要有一個完整的系統來規範\n\n02:40.871 --> 03:05.454\n他如果是一個承辦人員但是他接觸到密等是最高機密但是我們給他安排的密等因為是法務部的政風是可能過去的依照他的位階可能給他安排的密等是機密那等於是說這就不符合這樣子的機制所以這個部分我是希望能夠來去做調整這個介密層級這個部分已經講很久了從2016年到現在就是\n\n03:06.795 --> 03:30.684\n這個要確保一下這個不是小的案件資安不是只有科技的技術而已人因的因素還是很重要的這是這次的範圍因為我想部長也不方便透露到底有多少人受到影響但是如果範圍很大那我們很難去追蹤到他們接收到知曉之後除了媒體知道有這件事還是知道有這些人還是知道有這些人他們做什麼事情\n\n03:31.184 --> 03:55.854\n那這個可能是接下來這一兩個月可能要聯合法務部一起來去做檢討好不好?跟委員報告第一個當然是法務部聯政署會做一個行政調查第二個當然就是說因為相關的這個還是在內網的範圍之內那第三個當然就是說它所出去的這個部分是包括單位名稱、職稱跟姓名那有些部分並不是機密比如說像我\n\n03:56.454 --> 03:58.336\n國防部、國防部長、國防部長、國防部長\n\n04:18.755 --> 04:38.724\n灰色地帶的侵擾我們這次也提到封鎖跟隔離那上一次我們是針對封鎖的部分花比較多的時間這次想針對隔離的部分那部長也知道說現在隔離的處置就不是軍事上用軍艦或者是直接用軍隊來去做這個全面性的封鎖那所以說他可能他\n\n04:40.195 --> 04:56.979\n中國可以用去棄毒、去查走私、做公衛檢疫、搜尋逃犯等於是用這樣的方式還是可以達成接近封鎖的做法目前我看我們現在根據這個CSIS的資料把這個相關的中國的\n\n05:01.420 --> 05:27.531\n海警的盾位和船艦的數量來做比較的話我們台灣的海巡基本上是遠遠的不足但是另一方面我們也必須思考說他必須在守衛的是他們整個非常大的海岸線那我們台灣只要守衛台灣就好那我專為一嘛所以我們的資源可以做更有效的運用現在的這樣子的海巡的能量\n\n05:28.795 --> 05:43.545\n國防部有沒有可能提供退役的盾位的船艦以及聯繫友好的國家來去取得其他國家的相關的這種海巡的這種不是軍艦但是能夠直巡海巡的船艦\n\n05:46.124 --> 05:59.984\n我覺得海巡跟其他國家的合作並不是由我來回答而且這個部分也不是以公開來過於討論我當然是有些理解可能這個是要由海巡來回答但\n\n06:01.566 --> 06:29.284\n我個人會覺得可能也不是以來公開來做說明中國的海警他是基本上從他們的國防部接收大量的退役他們的軍艦來擴充他們現在新造的艦也很多對那我的意思是說如果中國可以大量的利用他們退役的軍艦的話我們國防部有沒有可能因為我們現在必須第一時間要因應的就是灰色地帶有沒有相關可以跟海巡把這些相關退役船艦來移交給海巡的可能性\n\n06:30.796 --> 06:51.006\n他跟委員報告,我們自己現在都要來應付灰色地帶,我們要進行清洗循環界的造鑑所以我們應處灰色地帶,確實中國一個對我們非常大的挑戰是在對我們進行一些消耗戰這個是無可否認的一個事實,所以我們要是適切的來應處\n\n06:51.806 --> 07:07.388\n那對於這種灰色地帶洗澡我們要跟海巡來共同協處那海巡當然現在有相當的一個燒素的一個新建的建造的計畫正在執行當中就會不斷的會有比較大型的軍艦\n\n07:08.650 --> 07:22.148\n有幾位委員提到空中的能量所以我們海巡這邊沒有定義機這樣子去協助那有沒有可能考慮與民間合作用租借的方式來去暫時把這個空中的力量做彌補\n\n07:23.716 --> 07:38.749\n我想我們應該海軍會來協助海巡做這個相關的見證的這個活動那我們也會來發展這個相關的這些以無人機的方式來做這個空中的見證的這個作為\n\n07:40.964 --> 07:56.612\n好謝謝那如果在另外的部分全動數它是在11年1月它成立那11年2月開始檢討醫療的量能那在今年我們在看到5月的時候全台的輸液藥物大缺貨\n\n07:57.532 --> 08:11.921\n不知道這個部分國防部的這個全動數有沒有整合相關的資源來了解到有這樣的狀況之前有先檢測到有可能會有這樣子的情勢發生嗎因為現在是在成平時期喔\n\n08:12.776 --> 08:34.427\n那根據這個衛福部他把最新的這個資料給我們他說9月的時候食藥署說10月底前還是沒有辦法恢復生產比如說我們全動數也好或者是說我之前也是在質詢這個退福會的時候我們都說有定期來去確保說我們的醫療量能那基本上都是足夠的可是現在在成名時期\n\n08:35.427 --> 09:01.707\n都有這樣的問題是不是可以請衛福部來簡單的回應一下跟國防部之間的資訊是怎麼樣整合的好謝謝委員先跟委員報告就是說其實跟國防部這邊我們之前有一些相關的國家必要戰備藥材還有一些必要藥材的部分事實上是有一些囤儲那也很抱歉就是說在生理食品水這個部分因為其實過去生理食品水是一個很普遍而且有非常多家廠商在生產的一個產品\n\n09:02.748 --> 09:22.249\n所以這個部分過去並沒有被列在EssentialDrugs必要藥品在聯合國也沒有但是這次的狀況比較特別是說因為永豐它是戰事戰七成的一個廠商所以當它因為品管的部分沒有辦法通過我們後續的核定的時候那出現了七成的產品沒有辦法供應所以才會出現市面上的短缺的問題\n\n09:23.350 --> 09:44.998\n這個部分衛福部這邊也謝謝大家能夠同意讓我們用專案進口的方式先用國外的產品先來致應那國內我們有很多家廠商他原來佔三成那些廠商他們也幫我們加工加班那做了因應的部分那目前我們持續的輔導這家廠商那廠商這邊已經在大包裝的沖洗液都已經可以完成已經標準了\n\n09:45.998 --> 10:11.115\n所以它已經開始在供應了大包裝沖洗液的部分那在典基的部分就打進身體的部分當然我們的標準還是比較嚴格一點所以說在進入身體的這個所謂注射液的部分我們目前最快的進度在11月底可以去確認它的這個包含它的這些相關的品管那11月底如果能夠確認品管的話我們應該可以在12月開始這一家原來供應七成的廠商可以供應謝謝次長您這個\n\n10:14.037 --> 10:41.580\n解釋得非常完善我簡單跟部長講一下就是說我們現在做的每件事情做國防的準備在經濟上面都是沒有效益的經濟上面沒有效益是在過去我們的這個工業社會來講我們要全力追求效益最大化但是我們現在做的事情不應該追求效益最大化因為我們要面臨的是可能會遇到的衝突可能會遇到的封鎖可能會遇到的隔離所以我們必須要事先先思考說這可能對我們的經濟效益是\n\n10:42.381 --> 11:10.620\n沒有幫助的因為任何的囤積本身就是經濟效益是不會滿足的所以這個是這個mindset我們要先準備好所以如果說我們要花這麼多心力要到10月、12月的時候才可以把它完成的滿足我們現在的需求的話那所以說整個整備的過程是更加困難的所以我今天講的這個全動數我不是在攻擊全動數我覺得這是要還好我們兩年前就開始在做這些準備的所以我們現在才可以站在這個質詢台來質詢說我們現在部署的地方\n\n11:12.581 --> 11:25.232\n那未來的兩年三年會隨著每一次的質詢每一次我們的精進我們才會有足夠的能量去量能去做調配嗎那接下來請那個農業部請副市長\n\n11:38.922 --> 11:57.813\n副長根據美國交通大學聖利亞格分校最新資訊糧食供需年報他說台灣的糧食自給率現在是30.3%創下18年新低我想請教因為飲食的需求是改變的所以說包括雜糧的自給率也是在降低\n\n11:58.833 --> 12:09.164\n現在除了倒座四選三、雜糧二轉等政策,農業部有沒有辦法適度把倒座面積轉為雜糧面積,讓我們的自給率更加平衡,就是說不是只有夠,而且還要多元?\n\n12:10.779 --> 12:29.668\n好那這邊回復委員那其實在農業部其實也在進行一級二轉3加3的部分其中在二轉事實上就是就我們現行雜糧比較不足的部分去做所謂的雜糧面積的一個擴展那把原本倒做的部分本來可能比較不是在這方面生產我們轉做雜糧部分來擴展這個面積\n\n12:32.009 --> 12:52.210\n對,那這個地方要請教因為平時黃豆、小麥、玉米的進口跟庫存是經濟部負責那米的部分是由農業部所以剛才我們詢問幾個聯絡國會的人提供給我們的資料那遇到這個緊急狀態整體的糧食物資調備是由經濟部、農業部還是權動署來去做分配工作的協調\n\n12:54.012 --> 13:09.283\n跟委員報告其實我們農業部就整個我們的庫存會定期的一個盤點那整個相關的一個剛剛就我們的一個供應的部分我們來負責那至於相關的一個配售整體的部分我們當然經濟部做民生物資的一個整個調配好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.049,"end":24.145,"text":"麻煩請國防部部長請顧部長是 陳偉部長好 部長最近的重大的國安案件就如王定委有提到這個國防部的個資外流事件那這一次的範圍有多少人受到影響您說沒聽到"},{"start":27.266,"end":54.508,"text":"這次的各資外洩案件有多少人受到影響?」跟委員報告齁他這個部分是這樣子就是說他還是以內部軍網的方式以電子公文的方式發送給這個28個單位所以他還是在內部的這個各成辦單位那所揭露的是那一個他的服務單位職稱跟姓名這樣子這個資料而已沒有其他任何的資料就是"},{"start":56.71,"end":64.656,"text":"單位職稱跟姓名,還是在內部的各程班人員。中國時報知道這個訊息,但是我並不確定他有沒有拿到這樣子的相關的這些文件。"},{"start":71.681,"end":91.83,"text":"我們沒有辦法確定所以接下來要請部長那跟法務部那共同來去確定說是我們在第一時間要做好風險控管就是將那個電子公文已經全數刪除再來就是說第一時間做這個控管大概是從反應到開始控管大概有多少的時間就隔天隔天嘛24小時之後對"},{"start":92.85,"end":113.75,"text":"那我希望說未來這個機制就是等到24小時之後該下載的下載完該把這些手記錄的用手把它記錄下來筆記記錄的大概也都記完了所以我們是希望說這一次就把它當作是經驗反應時間必須要加快第二部分我們會檢討這個相關的數字法務部聯政署的政風室的人員那這個承辦人員的機密層級是什麼機密 絕對機密"},{"start":116.913,"end":142.87,"text":"您說這個鎮瘋市的他的解密成績他的解密成績clearance他的解密成績是什麼我想他這個因為他相關的這些資料的話他在鎮瘋市的話他有一定的一個見面人那實際的一個解密的成績我想我們回去再檢討一下謝謝部長我還是希望說回去檢討一下說如果他能夠碰觸到的"},{"start":143.61,"end":158.969,"text":"據媒體報導是直接從部長參謀總長到上校階級的將官那他的揭秘成績必須要非常高但是他如果只是一個正風式的承辦那到底是由法務部來去定義他的揭秘成績還是國防部我想這個以後要有一個完整的系統來規範"},{"start":160.871,"end":185.454,"text":"他如果是一個承辦人員但是他接觸到密等是最高機密但是我們給他安排的密等因為是法務部的政風是可能過去的依照他的位階可能給他安排的密等是機密那等於是說這就不符合這樣子的機制所以這個部分我是希望能夠來去做調整這個介密層級這個部分已經講很久了從2016年到現在就是"},{"start":186.795,"end":210.684,"text":"這個要確保一下 這個不是小的案件資安不是只有科技的技術而已 人因的因素還是很重要的這是這次的範圍 因為我想部長也不方便透露到底有多少人受到影響但是如果範圍很大 那我們很難去追蹤到他們接收到知曉之後除了媒體知道有這件事 還是知道有這些人還是知道有這些人他們做什麼事情"},{"start":211.184,"end":235.854,"text":"那這個可能是接下來這一兩個月可能要聯合法務部一起來去做檢討好不好?跟委員報告第一個當然是法務部聯政署會做一個行政調查第二個當然就是說因為相關的這個還是在內網的範圍之內那第三個當然就是說它所出去的這個部分是包括單位名稱、職稱跟姓名那有些部分並不是機密比如說像我"},{"start":236.454,"end":238.336,"text":"國防部、國防部長、國防部長、國防部長"},{"start":258.755,"end":278.724,"text":"灰色地帶的侵擾我們這次也提到封鎖跟隔離那上一次我們是針對封鎖的部分花比較多的時間這次想針對隔離的部分那部長也知道說現在隔離的處置就不是軍事上用軍艦或者是直接用軍隊來去做這個全面性的封鎖那所以說他可能他"},{"start":280.195,"end":296.979,"text":"中國可以用去棄毒、去查走私、做公衛檢疫、搜尋逃犯等於是用這樣的方式還是可以達成接近封鎖的做法目前我看我們現在根據這個CSIS的資料把這個相關的中國的"},{"start":301.42,"end":327.531,"text":"海警的盾位和船艦的數量來做比較的話我們台灣的海巡基本上是遠遠的不足但是另一方面我們也必須思考說他必須在守衛的是他們整個非常大的海岸線那我們台灣只要守衛台灣就好那我專為一嘛所以我們的資源可以做更有效的運用現在的這樣子的海巡的能量"},{"start":328.795,"end":343.545,"text":"國防部有沒有可能提供退役的盾位的船艦以及聯繫友好的國家來去取得其他國家的相關的這種海巡的這種不是軍艦但是能夠直巡海巡的船艦"},{"start":346.124,"end":359.984,"text":"我覺得海巡跟其他國家的合作並不是由我來回答而且這個部分也不是以公開來過於討論我當然是有些理解可能這個是要由海巡來回答但"},{"start":361.566,"end":389.284,"text":"我個人會覺得可能也不是以來公開來做說明中國的海警他是基本上從他們的國防部接收大量的退役他們的軍艦來擴充他們現在新造的艦也很多對 那我的意思是說如果中國可以大量的利用他們退役的軍艦的話我們國防部有沒有可能因為我們現在必須第一時間要因應的就是灰色地帶有沒有相關可以跟海巡把這些相關退役船艦來移交給海巡的可能性"},{"start":390.796,"end":411.006,"text":"他跟委員報告,我們自己現在都要來應付灰色地帶,我們要進行清洗循環界的造鑑所以我們應處灰色地帶,確實中國一個對我們非常大的挑戰是在對我們進行一些消耗戰這個是無可否認的一個事實,所以我們要是適切的來應處"},{"start":411.806,"end":427.388,"text":"那對於這種灰色地帶洗澡我們要跟海巡來共同協處那海巡當然現在有相當的一個燒素的一個新建的建造的計畫正在執行當中就會不斷的會有比較大型的軍艦"},{"start":428.65,"end":442.148,"text":"有幾位委員提到空中的能量所以我們海巡這邊沒有定義機這樣子去協助那有沒有可能考慮與民間合作用租借的方式來去暫時把這個空中的力量做彌補"},{"start":443.716,"end":458.749,"text":"我想我們應該海軍會來協助海巡做這個相關的見證的這個活動那我們也會來發展這個相關的這些以無人機的方式來做這個空中的見證的這個作為"},{"start":460.964,"end":476.612,"text":"好 謝謝那如果在另外的部分全動數它是在11年1月它成立那11年2月開始檢討醫療的量能那在今年我們在看到5月的時候全台的輸液藥物大缺貨"},{"start":477.532,"end":491.921,"text":"不知道這個部分國防部的這個全動數有沒有整合相關的資源來了解到有這樣的狀況之前有先檢測到有可能會有這樣子的情勢發生嗎因為現在是在成平時期喔"},{"start":492.776,"end":514.427,"text":"那根據這個衛福部他把最新的這個資料給我們他說9月的時候食藥署說10月底前還是沒有辦法恢復生產比如說我們全動數也好或者是說我之前也是在質詢這個退福會的時候我們都說有定期來去確保說我們的醫療量能那基本上都是足夠的可是現在在成名時期"},{"start":515.427,"end":541.707,"text":"都有這樣的問題是不是可以請衛福部來簡單的回應一下跟國防部之間的資訊是怎麼樣整合的好 謝謝委員先跟委員報告就是說其實跟國防部這邊我們之前有一些相關的國家必要戰備藥材還有一些必要藥材的部分事實上是有一些囤儲那也很抱歉就是說在生理食品水這個部分因為其實過去生理食品水是一個很普遍而且有非常多家廠商在生產的一個產品"},{"start":542.748,"end":562.249,"text":"所以這個部分過去並沒有被列在Essential Drugs必要藥品在聯合國也沒有但是這次的狀況比較特別是說因為永豐它是戰事戰七成的一個廠商所以當它因為品管的部分沒有辦法通過我們後續的核定的時候那出現了七成的產品沒有辦法供應所以才會出現市面上的短缺的問題"},{"start":563.35,"end":584.998,"text":"這個部分衛福部這邊也謝謝大家能夠同意讓我們用專案進口的方式先用國外的產品先來致應那國內我們有很多家廠商他原來佔三成那些廠商他們也幫我們加工加班那做了因應的部分那目前我們持續的輔導這家廠商那廠商這邊已經在大包裝的沖洗液都已經可以完成已經標準了"},{"start":585.998,"end":611.115,"text":"所以它已經開始在供應了大包裝沖洗液的部分那在典基的部分就打進身體的部分當然我們的標準還是比較嚴格一點所以說在進入身體的這個所謂注射液的部分我們目前最快的進度在11月底可以去確認它的這個包含它的這些相關的品管那11月底如果能夠確認品管的話我們應該可以在12月開始這一家原來供應七成的廠商可以供應謝謝次長您這個"},{"start":614.037,"end":641.58,"text":"解釋得非常完善我簡單跟部長講一下就是說我們現在做的每件事情做國防的準備在經濟上面都是沒有效益的經濟上面沒有效益是在過去我們的這個工業社會來講我們要全力追求效益最大化但是我們現在做的事情不應該追求效益最大化因為我們要面臨的是可能會遇到的衝突可能會遇到的封鎖可能會遇到的隔離所以我們必須要事先先思考說這可能對我們的經濟效益是"},{"start":642.381,"end":670.62,"text":"沒有幫助的因為任何的囤積本身就是經濟效益是不會滿足的所以這個是這個mindset我們要先準備好所以如果說我們要花這麼多心力要到10月、12月的時候才可以把它完成的滿足我們現在的需求的話那所以說整個整備的過程是更加困難的所以我今天講的這個全動數我不是在攻擊全動數我覺得這是要還好我們兩年前就開始在做這些準備的所以我們現在才可以站在這個質詢台來質詢說我們現在部署的地方"},{"start":672.581,"end":685.232,"text":"那未來的兩年三年會隨著每一次的質詢每一次我們的精進我們才會有足夠的能量去量能去做調配嗎那接下來請那個農業部請副市長"},{"start":698.922,"end":717.813,"text":"副長根據美國交通大學聖利亞格分校最新資訊糧食供需年報他說台灣的糧食自給率現在是30.3%創下18年新低我想請教因為飲食的需求是改變的所以說包括雜糧的自給率也是在降低"},{"start":718.833,"end":729.164,"text":"現在除了倒座四選三、雜糧二轉等政策,農業部有沒有辦法適度把倒座面積轉為雜糧面積,讓我們的自給率更加平衡,就是說不是只有夠,而且還要多元?"},{"start":730.779,"end":749.668,"text":"好那這邊回復委員那其實在農業部其實也在進行一級二轉3加3的部分其中在二轉事實上就是就我們現行雜糧比較不足的部分去做所謂的雜糧面積的一個擴展那把原本倒做的部分本來可能比較不是在這方面生產我們轉做雜糧部分來擴展這個面積"},{"start":752.009,"end":772.21,"text":"對,那這個地方要請教因為平時黃豆、小麥、玉米的進口跟庫存是經濟部負責那米的部分是由農業部所以剛才我們詢問幾個聯絡國會的人提供給我們的資料那遇到這個緊急狀態整體的糧食物資調備是由經濟部、農業部還是權動署來去做分配工作的協調"},{"start":774.012,"end":789.283,"text":"跟委員報告其實我們農業部就整個我們的庫存會定期的一個盤點那整個相關的一個剛剛就我們的一個供應的部分我們來負責那至於相關的一個配售整體的部分我們當然經濟部做民生物資的一個整個調配好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":670,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（10時29分）麻煩請國防部部長。"],["主席：請顧部長。"],["顧部長立雄：陳委員好。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長好。有關最近重大的國安案件，即王定宇委員有提到的國防部個資外洩事件，這一次的範圍有多少人受到影響？"],["顧部長立雄：您說？沒聽到。"],["陳委員冠廷：這一次的個資外洩案件，有多少人受到影響？"],["顧部長立雄：這個部分是在內部軍網以電子公文的方式發送給28個單位，所以還是在內部的各承辦單位，所揭露的是服務單位、職稱跟姓名這樣的資料而已，沒有其他任何的資料。就是單位、職稱跟姓名，還是在內部的各承辦人員。"],["陳委員冠廷：在內部的個案，但是中國時報有獨家掌握？那就不是內部了！"],["顧部長立雄：中國時報知道這個訊息，但是我並不確定，他有沒有拿到相關文件。"],["陳委員冠廷：你們沒有辦法確定，所以接下來要請部長跟法務部共同確定，到底洩漏的範圍……"],["顧部長立雄：我們在第一時間要做好風險控管，已經將那個電子公文全數刪除了。"],["陳委員冠廷：再來就是第一時間控管，從反應到開始控管大概有多少的時間？"],["顧部長立雄：就隔天。"],["陳委員冠廷：隔天、24小時之後？"],["顧部長立雄：對。"],["陳委員冠廷：我希望未來的機制就是等到24小時之後，該下載的下載完，該用手把它記錄下來、用筆記錄的大概也都記完了，所以我們希望就把這一次當作是經驗，反應時間必須要加快。"],["顧部長立雄：是，我們會檢討相關疏失。"],["陳委員冠廷：第二個部分，承辦人員是法務部廉政署政風室的人員，這個承辦人員的揭密層級是什麼？機密、絕對機密？"],["顧部長立雄：您說這個政風室揭密的人？"],["陳委員冠廷：對，這個承辦人員的揭密層級是什麼？"],["顧部長立雄：因為這些相關的資料在政風室有一定的揭密層級，至於實際的揭密層級，我們回去再檢討一下。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝部長。我還是希望回去檢討一下，如果他能夠碰觸到的……據媒體報導，是直接從部長、參謀總長到上校階級的將官，他的揭密層級必須要非常高。他如果只是政風室的承辦，到底是由法務部來定義他的揭密層級，還是國防部？我想這個以後要有完整的系統來規範，不然他如果是承辦人員，接觸到的密等是最高機密，因為是在法務部的政風室，過去可能依照他的位階，給他安排的密等是機密，等於這就不符合這樣的機制。針對這個部分，我希望能夠調整。揭密層級已經講很久了，從2016年到現在，這個要確保一下。這個不是小的案件，資安不是只有科技的技術而已，人因的因素還是很重要的。因為這次的範圍，部長也不方便透露到底有多少人受到影響，但如果範圍很大，那我們很難去追蹤到他們接收到資料之後，除了媒體知道有這件事，還是知道有這些人，還是知道有這些人他們做什麼事情，這個可能是接下來這一、兩個月要聯合法務部一起來去做檢討。"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，第一個當然是法務部廉政署會來做一個行政調查；第二個，因為相關的部分還是在內網的範圍之內；第三個，他所出去的這個部分是包括單位名稱、職稱，跟姓名，有些部分並不是機敏，比如說像我的話，大家都知道我是國防部、部長、顧立雄，就只有這三個問題，但是確實有一些機敏人員的身分，剛剛委員的指導是對的，我們要來……"],["陳委員冠廷：部長，我們跟中國最大不同就是因為我們有問責的機制，所以有遇到問題，我們就只是把它解決而已。"],["顧部長立雄：是、是，我們會來檢討。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝部長。第二個部分，關於灰色地帶的侵擾，我們這次也提到封鎖跟隔離，上一次我們是針對封鎖的部分花比較多的時間，這次想針對隔離的部分。部長也知道說，現在隔離的處置就不是軍事上面用軍艦或者是直接用軍隊來去做全面性的封鎖，所以可能變成中國可以用比如他是去緝毒、他是去查走私、他是做公衛的檢疫、他是在搜尋逃犯，等於是用這樣的方式，還是可以達成接近封鎖的作法。目前我看，我們現在根據CSIS的資料，把相關的中國海警的噸位、船艦的數量來做比較的話，我們臺灣的海巡基本上是遠遠的不足，但是另一方面，我們也必須思考，他必須守衛的是他們整個非常大的海岸線，我們臺灣只要守衛臺灣就好，我專為一，所以我們的資源可以做更有效的運用。現在這樣子的海巡能量，國防部有沒有可能提供退役噸位的船艦，以及聯繫友好的國家來去取得其他國家的相關這種海巡的、不是軍艦，但是能夠執行海巡的船艦？"],["顧部長立雄：我覺得海巡跟其他國家的合作並不是由我來回答，而且這個部分也不適宜公開來過於討論，我當然是有些理解，可能這個是要由海巡來回答，但我個人會覺得可能也不適宜公開來做說明，但是我們……"],["陳委員冠廷：中國的海警基本上是從他們的國防部接收大量的退役軍艦來擴充他們的海警。"],["顧部長立雄：他們現在新造的艦也很多。"],["陳委員冠廷：對，我的意思是說，如果中國可以大量的利用他們退役軍艦的話，我們國防部有沒有可能？因為我們現在必須在第一時間要因應的就是灰色地帶，有沒有跟海巡把這些相關退役船艦來移交給海巡的可能性？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我們自己現在都要來應付灰色地帶，我們要進行輕型巡防艦的造艦，所以對於應處灰色地帶，確實中國對我們有非常大的挑戰，是在於對我們進行一些消耗戰，這個是無可否認的一個事實，所以我們要適切的來應處，對於這種灰色地帶的襲擾，我們要跟海巡來共同協處，當然海巡現在有相當艘數的新艦建造計畫正在執行當中，就不斷會有比較大型的海巡艦。"],["陳委員冠廷：剛才有幾位委員提到空中能量，說我們海巡這邊沒有定翼機去協助，有沒有可能考慮與民間合作，用租借的方式去暫時把這個空中能量做彌補？"],["顧部長立雄：我想我們海軍應該會來協助海巡做相關監偵的活動，我們也會來發展相關以無人機的方式來做這個空中的監偵作為。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，謝謝。另外的部分，全動署是在111年1月成立，111年2月開始檢討醫療的量能，在今年5月的時候我們看到全臺的輸液藥物大缺貨，不知道這個部分，國防部全動署有沒有整合相關資源來了解到有這樣的狀況？之前有先檢測到有可能會有這樣子的情勢發生嗎？因為現在是在承平時期。","根據衛福部把最新的資料給我們，它說9月的時候，食藥署說最10月底前還是沒有辦法恢復生產，也就是說我們全動署也好，或者我之前也是在質詢退輔會的時候，都說有定期來確保我們的醫療量能基本上都是足夠的，可是現在在承平時期都有這樣子的問題，是不是可以請衛福部來簡單回應一下，跟國防部之間的資訊是怎麼樣整合的？"],["林次長靜儀：好，謝謝委員。先跟委員報告，其實跟國防部這邊，我們之前有一些相關的國家必要戰備藥材，還有一些必要藥材的部分事實上有一些囤儲，那也很抱歉，就是說在生理食鹽水這個部分，因為其實過去生理食鹽水是一個很普遍而且有非常多家廠商在生產的產品，所以這個部分過去並沒有被列在essential drugs，就是必要藥品，在聯合國也沒有，但是這次狀況比較特別是說，因為永豐是市占七成的一個廠商，所以當它因為品管的部分沒有辦法通過我們後續核定的時候，出現了七成的產品沒有辦法供應，所以才會出現市面上短缺的問題。","這個部分，衛福部這邊也謝謝大家能夠同意讓我們用專案進口的方式，先用國外的產品來支應，國內我們有很多家廠商，即原來占三成的那些廠商，他們也幫我們加工加班，做了因應的部分，目前我們持續輔導這家廠商，廠商這邊的大包裝沖洗液都已經可以完成且已經達到標準了，所以它已經開始在供應了，就是大包裝沖洗液的部分。在點滴的部分，就是打進身體的部分，當然我們的標準還是比較嚴格一點。所以說在進入身體所謂注射液的部分，我們目前最快的進度在11月底可以去確認，包含這些相關的品管，11月底如果能夠確認品管的話，我們應該可以在12月開始，這一家原來供應七成的廠商可以供應。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝次長，您解釋得非常完善，我簡單跟部長講一下，我們現在做的每一件事情、做國防的準備，在經濟上面都是沒有效益的，在過去我們的工業社會來講，我們要全力追求效益最大化，但是我們現在做的事情不應該追求效益最大化，因為我們要面臨的是可能會遇到的衝突、可能會遇到的封鎖、可能會遇到的隔離，所以我們必須要事先先思考到，這可能對我們的經濟效益是沒有幫助的，因為任何的囤積本身的經濟效益是不會滿足的，所以這個mindset，我們要先準備好，如果說我們要花這麼多心力，要到10月、12月的時候才可以完整滿足我們現在的需求的話，所以說整個整備的過程是更加困難的。","我今天講到全動署，我不是在攻擊全動署，我覺得還好我們兩年前就開始在做這些準備，所以我們現在才可以站在這個質詢臺來質詢我們現在不足的地方，未來的兩年、三年會隨著每一次的質詢、每一次我們的精進，我們才會有足夠的量能去做調配。","接下來請農業部副司長。"],["黃副司長新達：委員好。"],["陳委員冠廷：副司長好。根據美國加州大學聖地牙哥分校糧食供需年報最新的資訊，它說臺灣的糧食自給率現在是30.3%，創下18年新低，我想請教，因為飲食的需求是改變的，所以包括雜糧的自給率也是在降低，現在除了稻作4選3、雜糧2轉等政策，農業部有沒有辦法適度把稻作面積轉為雜糧面積，讓我們的自給率更加平衡？就是說不是只有夠，而且還要多元。"],["黃副司長新達：好，這邊回復委員。農業部其實也在進行「1級、2轉、3加3」的部分，其中在2轉事實上就是就我們現行雜糧比較不足的部分去做所謂的雜糧面積的擴展，把原本稻作的部分，本來可能比較不是在這方面的生產，我們轉做為雜糧來擴展面積。"],["陳委員冠廷：對，這個地方要請教，因為平時黃豆、小麥、玉米的進口跟庫存是經濟部負責，米的部分是由農業部，剛才我們詢問幾個國會聯絡人提供給我們的資料，遇到緊急狀態，整體的糧食物資調配是由經濟部、農業部還是全動署來去做分配工作的協調？"],["黃副司長新達：跟委員報告，其實農業部就整個我們的庫存會定期盤點，剛剛提到整個供應的部分是我們來負責，至於相關配售整體的部分，當然經濟部做的是民生物資的整個調配。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳冠廷委員。","等一下徐巧芯委員質詢完畢後，休息5分鐘。","接下來請林楚茵委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":352,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-7","speakers":["林憶君","羅美玲","陳永康","王定宇","馬文君","黃仁","陳冠廷","林楚茵","沈伯洋","徐巧芯","黃國昌","張啓楷","王鴻薇","洪申翰","羅智強","邱志偉","洪孟楷","賴士葆","張嘉郡"],"page_start":271,"meetingDate":["2024-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1138701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138701_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長、國家安全局、法務部調查局、海洋委員會海巡署、內政部、經濟部、農業部、\n國家發展委員會、國家科學及技術委員會、交通部、數位發展部、衛生福利部報告「針對解放軍\n未來可能透過『灰色地帶戰術』和『蟒蛇戰略』對台灣封鎖之國安危機及如何確保關鍵物資自\n主、關鍵產業、基礎設施、能源自主、民生物資、糧食安全及醫療物資供應無虞之應處作為」，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138701_00004"}}}