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{\"start\": 703.173, \"end\": 729.346, \"text\": \"或者是其他的責任追究那部分都要去判斷你一個機關的作用不管你是採尿、驗尿這些東西都會有那麼是不是要在這個416那邊給一個中間性質的這個一個宣告違法而已那我們認為說這不能再做爭執所以說實際上的執行面我們當然會做後續的這些的研議會跟華國部一起再來去面對這些的問題\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 703.173, \"end\": 703.313, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 703.313, \"end\": 703.433, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 703.433, \"end\": 703.573, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 703.573, \"end\": 703.713, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 703.713, \"end\": 703.854, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 703.854, \"end\": 704.274, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 704.274, \"end\": 704.394, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"追\", \"start\": 704.394, \"end\": 704.534, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"究\", \"start\": 704.534, \"end\": 704.654, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 704.654, \"end\": 704.834, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 704.834, 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795.178, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 795.178, \"end\": 795.378, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 795.378, \"end\": 796.039, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 796.039, \"end\": 796.119, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 796.119, \"end\": 796.279, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 796.279, \"end\": 796.419, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 796.419, \"end\": 797.0, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 797.0, \"end\": 797.3, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 797.3, \"end\": 797.44, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 797.44, \"end\": 797.861, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 797.861, \"end\": 798.041, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 798.041, \"end\": 798.221, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"班\", \"start\": 798.221, \"end\": 798.341, \"score\": 0.984}, 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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 816.837, \"end\": 816.977, \"score\": 0.619}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 816.977, \"end\": 817.157, \"score\": 0.734}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 817.157, \"end\": 817.177, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"對\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,458 --> 00:00:16,181\n謝謝莊瑞,有請我們法務部正部長。麻煩部長。還有我們警政署的署長。刑事警察局局長也請上台。總長來了,請總長也上台。麻煩總長。\n\n2\n00:00:29,793 --> 00:00:30,113\n昨天大家都認為阿是\n\n3\n00:00:51,021 --> 00:01:12,635\n我在網路上很多啊,都是黃牛的大豐收日啊。那我一下來就教,你們搶答好了。秋刀魚的滋味,貓和你都想了解。知道這一首歌,誰唱了舉手?你知不知道?我們猜就是卓杰倫。你猜卓杰倫,多名啊,你知不知道?\n\n4\n00:01:17,947 --> 00:01:39,661\n但是重點不在這裡啦重點是搶到票的滋味大部分的歌迷都沒有辦法了解這個才是重點為什麼連這個總長都請你上來了這不是小事情這是大事情對民眾來講的話如果說一場受到民眾大家都喜愛的一個演唱會然後大多數的人\n\n5\n00:01:40,543 --> 00:02:05,350\n很公平的然後要去買這個票很公平照理講很公平嘛大家希望我前十幾天我在辦公室給他獲得邀請我助理大家都在招票沒有人買到都沒有人買到都買不到所以呢這個昨天的票這樣開慢以後在短短的20分鐘裡面就被搶光了那我想很多你們可能也要稍微注意一下很多歌迷就在臉書上講他說要在臉書上辦活動就算\n\n6\n00:02:09,051 --> 00:02:23,620\n爬到大巨蛋的下水道而去聽周杰倫的演唱會這是很嚴重的事你知道嗎那當然我要接下來要請教各位的就是說我先撇開黃牛票的違法不談來看看一下投影片這個就涉及到我們的你看在62萬人的一個臉書裡面你看如果你是歌迷買不到票的話\n\n7\n00:02:37,421 --> 00:03:00,231\n他秀上這樣的一個一個訊息上去你很有可能啊你很有可能哦這西裝的刮白他可能這個時候搶不到票理智縣都已經斷了一半了很有可能馬上就去匯款了一張這樣48804880是還好哦你看他說這四張四張這樣兩萬塊就輕易我如果詐騙他們詐騙集團輕易的就到手了\n\n8\n00:03:07,028 --> 00:03:18,739\n緊急的就到手了那我要就教於各位的就是說我們在去年喔去年我們修法這樣子通過了以後啊\n\n9\n00:03:19,793 --> 00:03:37,200\n那是不是各位有沒有辦法去想到說我們除了主動的讓我們的消費大眾來做一個檢舉歌名來檢舉以外還有沒有什麼辦法來加速提升整個執法的一個效率因為我們在去年文化創意的產業發展條例文化創意產這個發展條條例發展法\n\n10\n00:03:44,090 --> 00:04:06,514\n我們通過以後是說你用掃票機器人或者是用外掛的程式你如果用這樣的方式搶票的話這不正的手法三年以下有期徒刑甚至罰到三百萬可是問題是我們立法了我們立法了以後我們是說規定這樣的一個犯罪的一個太陽可是問題是有犯罪太陽可是你怎麼執行總長你怎麼知道\n\n11\n00:04:11,923 --> 00:04:20,289\n您可能比較屬於指揮啊可能第一線會在署長張署長您家跟刑事警察局局長家處長您有被搶到票嗎也是搶不到啊啊你也搶不到你期望值有沒有改變\n\n12\n00:04:25,956 --> 00:04:42,742\n那當然啦這一般的民眾也是這樣你也說期末期末這樣你看有可能也是歌迷啦大家都喜歡聽啦因為會把這一些像周杰倫啊這些大牌的就是大家要聽他的歌嘛做他的歌唄這個沒有什麼不對啊這對於都失蹤的聽到後心情越輕鬆的還有共同成長的記憶啊這個都很正常啊可是呢\n\n13\n00:04:47,083 --> 00:05:10,296\n站在執法機關的立場的話我們去年通過這樣的一個法律也賦予說如果說很可惡的你用這樣的一個方式掃票機器人或者外掛的程式去那我們你除了我來跟你檢舉說書店我都賣沒票捏還是要在那邊時間就用手機料啊是不是有人用掃票機器人是不是有人用外掛的程式像這種方式的話你有沒有辦法\n\n14\n00:05:14,158 --> 00:05:36,232\n從同步看出一定的端倪,或者說有什麼方式可以事先去做一個預防。請教署長。拜訪委員,我想這個黃紐是大家都一直怨怒的一件事情。剛剛委員所提的,他是不是有沒有用AI或外外的程式來購買這個票。第一個,\n\n15\n00:05:38,994 --> 00:05:57,042\n我們應該跟售票系統來做一個聯繫啦售票它的售票比如這一次是拓園嘛那這裡面有沒有同一個IP是一個IP裡面賣一百張兩百張三百張這種狀況跟售票系統來做一個聯繫有沒有異常的這樣的一個過票\n\n16\n00:05:58,783 --> 00:06:14,150\n來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做一個起立的源頭來做一個起立的源頭來做一個起立的源頭來做一個起立\n\n17\n00:06:24,415 --> 00:06:50,290\n獲得票的就在賣票的這個行為那我曾經我跟委員報告我是從台北市來台北市的大巨蛋第一次在開幕賽的時候我就黃牛就抓了一百多個一百多個抓一百多個黃牛你這張拍什麼錄整個這張嗎?你不是說把他抓成這樣你錄不完嗎?我給你看一張我給你看介紹好不好這個是我很擔心是因為這樣子而涉及到我詐騙你去看\n\n18\n00:06:51,311 --> 00:06:57,018\n你看看,搖滾區,一張加多少?除了6880以外,一張加四萬五喔!啊你如果是5880的,一張加四萬三喔!4880的一張加三萬八,那要命耶!那一張如果是6880,加四萬五一張票,那五萬幾塊耶!\n\n19\n00:07:12,384 --> 00:07:40,011\n這個這個我們會來追查啦是我的意思是說上上在網路上這些流的這些賣票的這些的狀況我們都會網路形容來做追查那個真的不要開玩笑會來追查一張票它不是門票的一個價值而已啊它是承載了這些歌迷對他青春那個還有回憶還有偶像的深愛的一個後裔啊這個這種愛意啊深厚的愛意啊那你注意去把它看\n\n20\n00:07:40,771 --> 00:07:46,554\n我如果買不到票啊剛好網路上像這樣秀出來以後啊我有做過做過可能你說4張嗎好回去啊回去都要詐騙啊詐騙大家都挨挨救所以我是認為說槍的一個方式喔那賣單消費者來啦\n\n21\n00:07:55,846 --> 00:08:00,248\n主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席\n\n22\n00:08:16,374 --> 00:08:38,320\n科技偵查法的推動對於犯罪偵訪是重大的一個進步也是一個法治國家裡面在打擊犯罪跟保障人權之間你如何去取得這樣的一個平衡不管是專法或刑事訴訟法我們既然把它列在刑事訴訟法的一個強制處分章裡面但是怎麼樣去把它按照那個強度\n\n23\n00:08:40,373 --> 00:09:02,086\n那種對於當事人的一個侵害的或者說限縮權力的一個強度去做法律保留我相信不同的干預手段裡面都要有救濟我最擔心的是什麼我們有干預處分然後你沒有救濟我們上次的修法其實我就不斷的提醒外公警察的部分你怎麼辦\n\n24\n00:09:03,991 --> 00:09:17,760\n按照民眾黨的版本通過了那大家共同承擔嘛那你現在要來補破網啦要來做一個這樣的一個救濟啦那我想請教的是說如果現在是按照民眾黨把一百五十三條之十全部都刪掉的話不要忘記喔\n\n25\n00:09:19,537 --> 00:09:44,862\n我上次特別提醒我們也特別去把它加進去喔我們在整個一百五十三條之十一二三第五項的時候我們去特意把它訂定依本章實施調查的方式所得的資料之保存管理跟消毀、懲暴、通知、救濟、監督其他相關事項的辦理要司法院會同行就你們要去訂立執法欸那今天這個如果全部都砍掉那你怎麼辦\n\n26\n00:09:48,663 --> 00:10:09,839\n那這部分沒有放進來那我們上次整部修法失去它的意義啊否定會不會是這樣呢大家想把這個放進來這個我先預告一下我可以先提醒不能走回頭路把舊計有漏洞的把它補上來是對的但是把這個又把它給砍掉的話\n\n27\n00:10:10,933 --> 00:10:35,068\n我都覺得期期以為不可啦但是接下來就碰到一個問題啦你說像比如說強制抽血的部分那111年憲判制要出來以後那個部分啊這個屬於檢察官的一個要求20小時內呈報檢察官然後屬於檢察官的處分可以准看告可是呢我擔心的是說除了這些以外\n\n28\n00:10:36,423 --> 00:10:59,945\n還有沒有其他我們有漏洞掉。那我們今天把警察的部分我們把他給含塞進來啦。就說這個處分24小時這個你有處分以後有對人民有干預的那要給他一個救濟的管道。我比較擔心的是說反而是碰到司法院這邊。司法院要\n\n29\n00:11:01,269 --> 00:11:14,245\n府民長你就必須要很誠實的來講啦這樣的一個像一個準抗抗的一個方式會不會造成現在實務上你們會有很大的衝擊這第一個第二個你們如何來做一個應變\n\n30\n00:11:18,126 --> 00:11:42,433\n跟委員報告齁那個准抗告的這個擴大齁從我們事務院報告上我意思說你有難題你的難題你有辦法改觀嗎將來我們這一部分的話司法的量能案件一定會增加而且而且說我們報告裡面有寫齁其實今天任何一個任何一個不管是司法警察或者其他人做的這個違法處分將來一定會有法律責任包含說國家賠償或者是\n\n31\n00:11:43,173 --> 00:12:09,346\n或者是其他的責任追究那部分都要去判斷你一個機關的作用不管你是採尿、驗尿這些東西都會有那麼是不是要在這個416那邊給一個中間性質的這個一個宣告違法而已那我們認為說這不能再做爭執所以說實際上的執行面我們當然會做後續的這些的研議會跟華國部一起再來去面對這些的問題\n\n32\n00:12:10,266 --> 00:12:36,762\n我相信等一下我們進這部法律的審理到最後這個地方很有可能卡關了很有可能卡關了其實這個部分其實要向國人好好去做一個說明其實也要跟立法院來做一個溝通你怎麼樣去達到這樣的一個平衡啊一個法治國家裡面台灣已經進步到這種地步了你任何一個強制處分干預的一個手段裡面立法院這個地方一定會受到提醒嘛\n\n33\n00:12:37,982 --> 00:12:44,508\n這麼多的法界的甚至於你們在司法實務人也有時候也會來跟我們討論那我們也會在這個地方示警提出來那這個是我也希望說我也希望說我們在立法的時候這個部分不是單靠一套規則來解決所有的問題法務部這個地方你們確實也要去做一個反思就是說並且監督這些新法的一個實施裡面確保他們在合法的範圍來做一個執行\n\n34\n00:13:04,266 --> 00:13:19,362\n而且你有充分的一個救濟的一個途徑保護老百姓的隱私或者那基本權利這個其實作為一個人的基本的啦各位不管部長不管是署長你們各位你們下班以後你們也都是人民啊\n\n35\n00:13:20,123 --> 00:13:37,177\n那這些部分都是基本權利的一個保障啊所以我認為這個部分我們要特別小心尤其是我上次我們上次修法通過的整個課程法把新的武器給放進來了我們把這一些資料的保存跟管理的方式我們都已經建立那個機制我們的執法還沒有定上來這個部分輕易把它萬一有拿掉的話這個我反對\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4458\t16181\t謝謝莊瑞,有請我們法務部正部長。麻煩部長。還有我們警政署的署長。刑事警察局局長也請上台。總長來了,請總長也上台。麻煩總長。\n29793\t30113\t昨天大家都認為阿是\n51021\t72635\t我在網路上很多啊,都是黃牛的大豐收日啊。那我一下來就教,你們搶答好了。秋刀魚的滋味,貓和你都想了解。知道這一首歌,誰唱了舉手?你知不知道?我們猜就是卓杰倫。你猜卓杰倫,多名啊,你知不知道?\n77947\t99661\t但是重點不在這裡啦重點是搶到票的滋味大部分的歌迷都沒有辦法了解這個才是重點為什麼連這個總長都請你上來了這不是小事情這是大事情對民眾來講的話如果說一場受到民眾大家都喜愛的一個演唱會然後大多數的人\n100543\t125350\t很公平的 然後要去買這個票很公平 照理講很公平嘛 大家希望我前十幾天 我在辦公室給他獲得邀請我助理 大家都在招票 沒有人買到 都沒有人買到 都買不到所以呢 這個昨天的票這樣開慢以後 在短短的20分鐘裡面 就被搶光了 那我想很多 你們可能也要稍微注意一下 很多歌迷就在臉書上講 他說要在臉書上辦活動 就算\n129051\t143620\t爬到大巨蛋的下水道而去聽周杰倫的演唱會這是很嚴重的事你知道嗎那當然我要接下來要請教各位的就是說我先撇開黃牛票的違法不談來看看一下投影片這個就涉及到我們的你看在62萬人的一個臉書裡面你看如果你是歌迷買不到票的話\n157421\t180231\t他秀上這樣的一個一個訊息上去你很有可能啊你很有可能哦這西裝的刮白他可能這個時候搶不到票理智縣都已經斷了一半了很有可能馬上就去匯款了一張這樣4880 4880是還好哦你看他說這四張四張這樣兩萬塊就輕易我如果詐騙他們詐騙集團輕易的就到手了\n187028\t198739\t緊急的就到手了那我要就教於各位的就是說我們在去年喔去年我們修法這樣子通過了以後啊\n199793\t217200\t那是不是各位有沒有辦法去想到說我們除了主動的讓我們的消費大眾來做一個檢舉歌名來檢舉以外還有沒有什麼辦法來加速提升整個執法的一個效率因為我們在去年文化創意的產業發展條例文化創意產這個發展條條例發展法\n224090\t246514\t我們通過以後是說你用掃票機器人或者是用外掛的程式你如果用這樣的方式搶票的話這不正的手法三年以下有期徒刑甚至罰到三百萬可是問題是我們立法了我們立法了以後我們是說規定這樣的一個犯罪的一個太陽可是問題是有犯罪太陽可是你怎麼執行總長你怎麼知道\n251923\t260289\t您可能比較屬於指揮啊可能第一線會在署長張署長您家跟刑事警察局局長家 處長您有被搶到票嗎 也是搶不到啊 啊你也搶不到 你期望值有沒有改變\n265956\t282742\t那當然啦 這一般的民眾也是這樣你也說期末期末 這樣你看有可能也是歌迷啦 大家都喜歡聽啦因為會把這一些像周杰倫啊 這些大牌的 就是大家要聽他的歌嘛 做他的歌唄 這個沒有什麼不對啊這對於都失蹤的 聽到後心情越輕鬆的 還有共同成長的記憶啊 這個都很正常啊 可是呢\n287083\t310296\t站在執法機關的立場的話我們去年通過這樣的一個法律也賦予說如果說很可惡的你用這樣的一個方式掃票機器人或者外掛的程式去那我們你除了我來跟你檢舉說書店我都賣沒票捏還是要在那邊時間就用手機料啊是不是有人用掃票機器人是不是有人用外掛的程式像這種方式的話你有沒有辦法\n314158\t336232\t從同步看出一定的端倪,或者說有什麼方式可以事先去做一個預防。請教署長。拜訪委員,我想這個黃紐是大家都一直怨怒的一件事情。剛剛委員所提的,他是不是有沒有用AI或外外的程式來購買這個票。第一個,\n338994\t357042\t我們應該跟售票系統來做一個聯繫啦售票它的售票比如這一次是拓園嘛那這裡面有沒有同一個IP是一個IP裡面賣一百張兩百張三百張這種狀況跟售票系統來做一個聯繫有沒有異常的這樣的一個過票\n358783\t374150\t來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做一個起立的源頭來做一個起立的源頭來做一個起立的源頭來做一個起立\n384415\t410290\t獲得票的就在賣票的這個行為那我曾經我跟委員報告我是從台北市來台北市的大巨蛋第一次在開幕賽的時候我就黃牛就抓了一百多個一百多個抓一百多個黃牛你這張拍什麼錄整個這張嗎?你不是說把他抓成這樣你錄不完嗎?我給你看一張我給你看介紹好不好這個是我很擔心是因為這樣子而涉及到我詐騙你去看\n411311\t417018\t你看看,搖滾區,一張加多少?除了6880以外,一張加四萬五喔!啊你如果是5880的,一張加四萬三喔!4880的一張加三萬八,那要命耶!那一張如果是6880,加四萬五一張票,那五萬幾塊耶!\n432384\t460011\t這個 這個我們會來追查啦是 我的意思是說上上在網路上這些流的這些賣票的這些的狀況我們都會網路形容來做追查那個真的不要開玩笑會來追查一張票它不是門票的一個價值而已啊它是承載了這些歌迷對他青春那個還有回憶還有偶像的深愛的一個後裔啊這個這種愛意啊 深厚的愛意啊那你注意去把它看\n460771\t466554\t我如果買不到票啊剛好網路上像這樣秀出來以後啊我有做過做過可能你說4張嗎好回去啊回去都要詐騙啊詐騙大家都挨挨救所以我是認為說槍的一個方式喔那賣單消費者來啦\n475846\t480248\t主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席\n496374\t518320\t科技偵查法的推動對於犯罪偵訪是重大的一個進步也是一個法治國家裡面在打擊犯罪跟保障人權之間你如何去取得這樣的一個平衡不管是專法或刑事訴訟法我們既然把它列在刑事訴訟法的一個強制處分章裡面但是怎麼樣去把它按照那個強度\n520373\t542086\t那種對於當事人的一個侵害的或者說限縮權力的一個強度去做法律保留我相信不同的干預手段裡面都要有救濟我最擔心的是什麼我們有干預處分然後你沒有救濟我們上次的修法其實我就不斷的提醒外公警察的部分你怎麼辦\n543991\t557760\t按照民眾黨的版本通過了那大家共同承擔嘛那你現在要來補破網啦要來做一個這樣的一個救濟啦那我想請教的是說如果現在是按照民眾黨把一百五十三條之十全部都刪掉的話不要忘記喔\n559537\t584862\t我上次特別提醒我們也特別去把它加進去喔我們在整個一百五十三條之十一二三第五項的時候我們去特意把它訂定依本章實施調查的方式所得的資料之保存管理跟消毀、懲暴、通知、救濟、監督其他相關事項的辦理要司法院會同行就你們要去訂立執法欸那今天這個如果全部都砍掉那你怎麼辦\n588663\t609839\t那這部分沒有放進來 那我們上次整部修法失去它的意義啊 否定會不會是這樣呢 大家想把這個放進來 這個我先預告一下 我可以先提醒 不能走回頭路 把舊計有漏洞的把它補上來是對的 但是把這個又把它給砍掉的話\n610933\t635068\t我都覺得期期以為不可啦但是接下來就碰到一個問題啦你說像比如說強制抽血的部分那111年憲判制要出來以後那個部分啊這個屬於檢察官的一個要求20小時內呈報檢察官然後屬於檢察官的處分可以准看告可是呢我擔心的是說除了這些以外\n636423\t659945\t還有沒有其他我們有漏洞掉。那我們今天把警察的部分我們把他給含塞進來啦。就說這個處分24小時這個你有處分以後有對人民有干預的那要給他一個救濟的管道。我比較擔心的是說反而是碰到司法院這邊。司法院要\n661269\t674245\t府民長你就必須要很誠實的來講啦這樣的一個像一個準抗抗的一個方式會不會造成現在實務上你們會有很大的衝擊這第一個第二個你們如何來做一個應變\n678126\t702433\t跟委員報告齁 那個准抗告的這個擴大齁 從我們事務院報告上我意思說你有難題 你的難題 你有辦法改觀嗎將來我們這一部分的話 司法的量能案件一定會增加而且 而且說我們報告裡面有寫齁 其實今天任何一個 任何一個不管是司法警察或者其他人做的這個違法處分將來一定會有法律責任 包含說國家賠償或者是\n703173\t729346\t或者是其他的責任追究那部分都要去判斷你一個機關的作用不管你是採尿、驗尿這些東西都會有那麼是不是要在這個416那邊給一個中間性質的這個一個宣告違法而已那我們認為說這不能再做爭執所以說實際上的執行面我們當然會做後續的這些的研議會跟華國部一起再來去面對這些的問題\n730266\t756762\t我相信等一下我們進這部法律的審理到最後這個地方很有可能卡關了很有可能卡關了其實這個部分其實要向國人好好去做一個說明其實也要跟立法院來做一個溝通你怎麼樣去達到這樣的一個平衡啊一個法治國家裡面台灣已經進步到這種地步了你任何一個強制處分干預的一個手段裡面立法院這個地方一定會受到提醒嘛\n757982\t764508\t這麼多的法界的甚至於你們在司法實務人也有時候也會來跟我們討論那我們也會在這個地方示警提出來那這個是我也希望說我也希望說我們在立法的時候這個部分不是單靠一套規則來解決所有的問題法務部這個地方你們確實也要去做一個反思就是說並且監督這些新法的一個實施裡面確保他們在合法的範圍來做一個執行\n784266\t799362\t而且你有充分的一個救濟的一個途徑保護老百姓的隱私或者那基本權利這個其實作為一個人的基本的啦各位不管部長不管是署長你們各位你們下班以後你們也都是人民啊\n800123\t817177\t那這些部分都是基本權利的一個保障啊所以我認為這個部分我們要特別小心尤其是我上次我們上次修法通過的整個課程法把新的武器給放進來了我們把這一些資料的保存跟管理的方式我們都已經建立那個機制我們的執法還沒有定上來這個部分輕易把它萬一有拿掉的話這個我反對\n823968\t843046\t謝謝。\n","txt":"謝謝莊瑞,有請我們法務部正部長。麻煩部長。還有我們警政署的署長。刑事警察局局長也請上台。總長來了,請總長也上台。麻煩總長。\n昨天大家都認為阿是\n我在網路上很多啊,都是黃牛的大豐收日啊。那我一下來就教,你們搶答好了。秋刀魚的滋味,貓和你都想了解。知道這一首歌,誰唱了舉手?你知不知道?我們猜就是卓杰倫。你猜卓杰倫,多名啊,你知不知道?\n但是重點不在這裡啦重點是搶到票的滋味大部分的歌迷都沒有辦法了解這個才是重點為什麼連這個總長都請你上來了這不是小事情這是大事情對民眾來講的話如果說一場受到民眾大家都喜愛的一個演唱會然後大多數的人\n很公平的 然後要去買這個票很公平 照理講很公平嘛 大家希望我前十幾天 我在辦公室給他獲得邀請我助理 大家都在招票 沒有人買到 都沒有人買到 都買不到所以呢 這個昨天的票這樣開慢以後 在短短的20分鐘裡面 就被搶光了 那我想很多 你們可能也要稍微注意一下 很多歌迷就在臉書上講 他說要在臉書上辦活動 就算\n爬到大巨蛋的下水道而去聽周杰倫的演唱會這是很嚴重的事你知道嗎那當然我要接下來要請教各位的就是說我先撇開黃牛票的違法不談來看看一下投影片這個就涉及到我們的你看在62萬人的一個臉書裡面你看如果你是歌迷買不到票的話\n他秀上這樣的一個一個訊息上去你很有可能啊你很有可能哦這西裝的刮白他可能這個時候搶不到票理智縣都已經斷了一半了很有可能馬上就去匯款了一張這樣4880 4880是還好哦你看他說這四張四張這樣兩萬塊就輕易我如果詐騙他們詐騙集團輕易的就到手了\n緊急的就到手了那我要就教於各位的就是說我們在去年喔去年我們修法這樣子通過了以後啊\n那是不是各位有沒有辦法去想到說我們除了主動的讓我們的消費大眾來做一個檢舉歌名來檢舉以外還有沒有什麼辦法來加速提升整個執法的一個效率因為我們在去年文化創意的產業發展條例文化創意產這個發展條條例發展法\n我們通過以後是說你用掃票機器人或者是用外掛的程式你如果用這樣的方式搶票的話這不正的手法三年以下有期徒刑甚至罰到三百萬可是問題是我們立法了我們立法了以後我們是說規定這樣的一個犯罪的一個太陽可是問題是有犯罪太陽可是你怎麼執行總長你怎麼知道\n您可能比較屬於指揮啊可能第一線會在署長張署長您家跟刑事警察局局長家 處長您有被搶到票嗎 也是搶不到啊 啊你也搶不到 你期望值有沒有改變\n那當然啦 這一般的民眾也是這樣你也說期末期末 這樣你看有可能也是歌迷啦 大家都喜歡聽啦因為會把這一些像周杰倫啊 這些大牌的 就是大家要聽他的歌嘛 做他的歌唄 這個沒有什麼不對啊這對於都失蹤的 聽到後心情越輕鬆的 還有共同成長的記憶啊 這個都很正常啊 可是呢\n站在執法機關的立場的話我們去年通過這樣的一個法律也賦予說如果說很可惡的你用這樣的一個方式掃票機器人或者外掛的程式去那我們你除了我來跟你檢舉說書店我都賣沒票捏還是要在那邊時間就用手機料啊是不是有人用掃票機器人是不是有人用外掛的程式像這種方式的話你有沒有辦法\n從同步看出一定的端倪,或者說有什麼方式可以事先去做一個預防。請教署長。拜訪委員,我想這個黃紐是大家都一直怨怒的一件事情。剛剛委員所提的,他是不是有沒有用AI或外外的程式來購買這個票。第一個,\n我們應該跟售票系統來做一個聯繫啦售票它的售票比如這一次是拓園嘛那這裡面有沒有同一個IP是一個IP裡面賣一百張兩百張三百張這種狀況跟售票系統來做一個聯繫有沒有異常的這樣的一個過票\n來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做一個起立的源頭來做一個起立的源頭來做一個起立的源頭來做一個起立\n獲得票的就在賣票的這個行為那我曾經我跟委員報告我是從台北市來台北市的大巨蛋第一次在開幕賽的時候我就黃牛就抓了一百多個一百多個抓一百多個黃牛你這張拍什麼錄整個這張嗎?你不是說把他抓成這樣你錄不完嗎?我給你看一張我給你看介紹好不好這個是我很擔心是因為這樣子而涉及到我詐騙你去看\n你看看,搖滾區,一張加多少?除了6880以外,一張加四萬五喔!啊你如果是5880的,一張加四萬三喔!4880的一張加三萬八,那要命耶!那一張如果是6880,加四萬五一張票,那五萬幾塊耶!\n這個 這個我們會來追查啦是 我的意思是說上上在網路上這些流的這些賣票的這些的狀況我們都會網路形容來做追查那個真的不要開玩笑會來追查一張票它不是門票的一個價值而已啊它是承載了這些歌迷對他青春那個還有回憶還有偶像的深愛的一個後裔啊這個這種愛意啊 深厚的愛意啊那你注意去把它看\n我如果買不到票啊剛好網路上像這樣秀出來以後啊我有做過做過可能你說4張嗎好回去啊回去都要詐騙啊詐騙大家都挨挨救所以我是認為說槍的一個方式喔那賣單消費者來啦\n主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席\n科技偵查法的推動對於犯罪偵訪是重大的一個進步也是一個法治國家裡面在打擊犯罪跟保障人權之間你如何去取得這樣的一個平衡不管是專法或刑事訴訟法我們既然把它列在刑事訴訟法的一個強制處分章裡面但是怎麼樣去把它按照那個強度\n那種對於當事人的一個侵害的或者說限縮權力的一個強度去做法律保留我相信不同的干預手段裡面都要有救濟我最擔心的是什麼我們有干預處分然後你沒有救濟我們上次的修法其實我就不斷的提醒外公警察的部分你怎麼辦\n按照民眾黨的版本通過了那大家共同承擔嘛那你現在要來補破網啦要來做一個這樣的一個救濟啦那我想請教的是說如果現在是按照民眾黨把一百五十三條之十全部都刪掉的話不要忘記喔\n我上次特別提醒我們也特別去把它加進去喔我們在整個一百五十三條之十一二三第五項的時候我們去特意把它訂定依本章實施調查的方式所得的資料之保存管理跟消毀、懲暴、通知、救濟、監督其他相關事項的辦理要司法院會同行就你們要去訂立執法欸那今天這個如果全部都砍掉那你怎麼辦\n那這部分沒有放進來 那我們上次整部修法失去它的意義啊 否定會不會是這樣呢 大家想把這個放進來 這個我先預告一下 我可以先提醒 不能走回頭路 把舊計有漏洞的把它補上來是對的 但是把這個又把它給砍掉的話\n我都覺得期期以為不可啦但是接下來就碰到一個問題啦你說像比如說強制抽血的部分那111年憲判制要出來以後那個部分啊這個屬於檢察官的一個要求20小時內呈報檢察官然後屬於檢察官的處分可以准看告可是呢我擔心的是說除了這些以外\n還有沒有其他我們有漏洞掉。那我們今天把警察的部分我們把他給含塞進來啦。就說這個處分24小時這個你有處分以後有對人民有干預的那要給他一個救濟的管道。我比較擔心的是說反而是碰到司法院這邊。司法院要\n府民長你就必須要很誠實的來講啦這樣的一個像一個準抗抗的一個方式會不會造成現在實務上你們會有很大的衝擊這第一個第二個你們如何來做一個應變\n跟委員報告齁 那個准抗告的這個擴大齁 從我們事務院報告上我意思說你有難題 你的難題 你有辦法改觀嗎將來我們這一部分的話 司法的量能案件一定會增加而且 而且說我們報告裡面有寫齁 其實今天任何一個 任何一個不管是司法警察或者其他人做的這個違法處分將來一定會有法律責任 包含說國家賠償或者是\n或者是其他的責任追究那部分都要去判斷你一個機關的作用不管你是採尿、驗尿這些東西都會有那麼是不是要在這個416那邊給一個中間性質的這個一個宣告違法而已那我們認為說這不能再做爭執所以說實際上的執行面我們當然會做後續的這些的研議會跟華國部一起再來去面對這些的問題\n我相信等一下我們進這部法律的審理到最後這個地方很有可能卡關了很有可能卡關了其實這個部分其實要向國人好好去做一個說明其實也要跟立法院來做一個溝通你怎麼樣去達到這樣的一個平衡啊一個法治國家裡面台灣已經進步到這種地步了你任何一個強制處分干預的一個手段裡面立法院這個地方一定會受到提醒嘛\n這麼多的法界的甚至於你們在司法實務人也有時候也會來跟我們討論那我們也會在這個地方示警提出來那這個是我也希望說我也希望說我們在立法的時候這個部分不是單靠一套規則來解決所有的問題法務部這個地方你們確實也要去做一個反思就是說並且監督這些新法的一個實施裡面確保他們在合法的範圍來做一個執行\n而且你有充分的一個救濟的一個途徑保護老百姓的隱私或者那基本權利這個其實作為一個人的基本的啦各位不管部長不管是署長你們各位你們下班以後你們也都是人民啊\n那這些部分都是基本權利的一個保障啊所以我認為這個部分我們要特別小心尤其是我上次我們上次修法通過的整個課程法把新的武器給放進來了我們把這一些資料的保存跟管理的方式我們都已經建立那個機制我們的執法還沒有定上來這個部分輕易把它萬一有拿掉的話這個我反對\n謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.458 --> 00:16.181\n謝謝莊瑞,有請我們法務部正部長。麻煩部長。還有我們警政署的署長。刑事警察局局長也請上台。總長來了,請總長也上台。麻煩總長。\n\n00:29.793 --> 00:30.113\n昨天大家都認為阿是\n\n00:51.021 --> 01:12.635\n我在網路上很多啊,都是黃牛的大豐收日啊。那我一下來就教,你們搶答好了。秋刀魚的滋味,貓和你都想了解。知道這一首歌,誰唱了舉手?你知不知道?我們猜就是卓杰倫。你猜卓杰倫,多名啊,你知不知道?\n\n01:17.947 --> 01:39.661\n但是重點不在這裡啦重點是搶到票的滋味大部分的歌迷都沒有辦法了解這個才是重點為什麼連這個總長都請你上來了這不是小事情這是大事情對民眾來講的話如果說一場受到民眾大家都喜愛的一個演唱會然後大多數的人\n\n01:40.543 --> 02:05.350\n很公平的然後要去買這個票很公平照理講很公平嘛大家希望我前十幾天我在辦公室給他獲得邀請我助理大家都在招票沒有人買到都沒有人買到都買不到所以呢這個昨天的票這樣開慢以後在短短的20分鐘裡面就被搶光了那我想很多你們可能也要稍微注意一下很多歌迷就在臉書上講他說要在臉書上辦活動就算\n\n02:09.051 --> 02:23.620\n爬到大巨蛋的下水道而去聽周杰倫的演唱會這是很嚴重的事你知道嗎那當然我要接下來要請教各位的就是說我先撇開黃牛票的違法不談來看看一下投影片這個就涉及到我們的你看在62萬人的一個臉書裡面你看如果你是歌迷買不到票的話\n\n02:37.421 --> 03:00.231\n他秀上這樣的一個一個訊息上去你很有可能啊你很有可能哦這西裝的刮白他可能這個時候搶不到票理智縣都已經斷了一半了很有可能馬上就去匯款了一張這樣48804880是還好哦你看他說這四張四張這樣兩萬塊就輕易我如果詐騙他們詐騙集團輕易的就到手了\n\n03:07.028 --> 03:18.739\n緊急的就到手了那我要就教於各位的就是說我們在去年喔去年我們修法這樣子通過了以後啊\n\n03:19.793 --> 03:37.200\n那是不是各位有沒有辦法去想到說我們除了主動的讓我們的消費大眾來做一個檢舉歌名來檢舉以外還有沒有什麼辦法來加速提升整個執法的一個效率因為我們在去年文化創意的產業發展條例文化創意產這個發展條條例發展法\n\n03:44.090 --> 04:06.514\n我們通過以後是說你用掃票機器人或者是用外掛的程式你如果用這樣的方式搶票的話這不正的手法三年以下有期徒刑甚至罰到三百萬可是問題是我們立法了我們立法了以後我們是說規定這樣的一個犯罪的一個太陽可是問題是有犯罪太陽可是你怎麼執行總長你怎麼知道\n\n04:11.923 --> 04:20.289\n您可能比較屬於指揮啊可能第一線會在署長張署長您家跟刑事警察局局長家處長您有被搶到票嗎也是搶不到啊啊你也搶不到你期望值有沒有改變\n\n04:25.956 --> 04:42.742\n那當然啦這一般的民眾也是這樣你也說期末期末這樣你看有可能也是歌迷啦大家都喜歡聽啦因為會把這一些像周杰倫啊這些大牌的就是大家要聽他的歌嘛做他的歌唄這個沒有什麼不對啊這對於都失蹤的聽到後心情越輕鬆的還有共同成長的記憶啊這個都很正常啊可是呢\n\n04:47.083 --> 05:10.296\n站在執法機關的立場的話我們去年通過這樣的一個法律也賦予說如果說很可惡的你用這樣的一個方式掃票機器人或者外掛的程式去那我們你除了我來跟你檢舉說書店我都賣沒票捏還是要在那邊時間就用手機料啊是不是有人用掃票機器人是不是有人用外掛的程式像這種方式的話你有沒有辦法\n\n05:14.158 --> 05:36.232\n從同步看出一定的端倪,或者說有什麼方式可以事先去做一個預防。請教署長。拜訪委員,我想這個黃紐是大家都一直怨怒的一件事情。剛剛委員所提的,他是不是有沒有用AI或外外的程式來購買這個票。第一個,\n\n05:38.994 --> 05:57.042\n我們應該跟售票系統來做一個聯繫啦售票它的售票比如這一次是拓園嘛那這裡面有沒有同一個IP是一個IP裡面賣一百張兩百張三百張這種狀況跟售票系統來做一個聯繫有沒有異常的這樣的一個過票\n\n05:58.783 --> 06:14.150\n來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做一個起立的源頭來做一個起立的源頭來做一個起立的源頭來做一個起立\n\n06:24.415 --> 06:50.290\n獲得票的就在賣票的這個行為那我曾經我跟委員報告我是從台北市來台北市的大巨蛋第一次在開幕賽的時候我就黃牛就抓了一百多個一百多個抓一百多個黃牛你這張拍什麼錄整個這張嗎?你不是說把他抓成這樣你錄不完嗎?我給你看一張我給你看介紹好不好這個是我很擔心是因為這樣子而涉及到我詐騙你去看\n\n06:51.311 --> 06:57.018\n你看看,搖滾區,一張加多少?除了6880以外,一張加四萬五喔!啊你如果是5880的,一張加四萬三喔!4880的一張加三萬八,那要命耶!那一張如果是6880,加四萬五一張票,那五萬幾塊耶!\n\n07:12.384 --> 07:40.011\n這個這個我們會來追查啦是我的意思是說上上在網路上這些流的這些賣票的這些的狀況我們都會網路形容來做追查那個真的不要開玩笑會來追查一張票它不是門票的一個價值而已啊它是承載了這些歌迷對他青春那個還有回憶還有偶像的深愛的一個後裔啊這個這種愛意啊深厚的愛意啊那你注意去把它看\n\n07:40.771 --> 07:46.554\n我如果買不到票啊剛好網路上像這樣秀出來以後啊我有做過做過可能你說4張嗎好回去啊回去都要詐騙啊詐騙大家都挨挨救所以我是認為說槍的一個方式喔那賣單消費者來啦\n\n07:55.846 --> 08:00.248\n主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席\n\n08:16.374 --> 08:38.320\n科技偵查法的推動對於犯罪偵訪是重大的一個進步也是一個法治國家裡面在打擊犯罪跟保障人權之間你如何去取得這樣的一個平衡不管是專法或刑事訴訟法我們既然把它列在刑事訴訟法的一個強制處分章裡面但是怎麼樣去把它按照那個強度\n\n08:40.373 --> 09:02.086\n那種對於當事人的一個侵害的或者說限縮權力的一個強度去做法律保留我相信不同的干預手段裡面都要有救濟我最擔心的是什麼我們有干預處分然後你沒有救濟我們上次的修法其實我就不斷的提醒外公警察的部分你怎麼辦\n\n09:03.991 --> 09:17.760\n按照民眾黨的版本通過了那大家共同承擔嘛那你現在要來補破網啦要來做一個這樣的一個救濟啦那我想請教的是說如果現在是按照民眾黨把一百五十三條之十全部都刪掉的話不要忘記喔\n\n09:19.537 --> 09:44.862\n我上次特別提醒我們也特別去把它加進去喔我們在整個一百五十三條之十一二三第五項的時候我們去特意把它訂定依本章實施調查的方式所得的資料之保存管理跟消毀、懲暴、通知、救濟、監督其他相關事項的辦理要司法院會同行就你們要去訂立執法欸那今天這個如果全部都砍掉那你怎麼辦\n\n09:48.663 --> 10:09.839\n那這部分沒有放進來那我們上次整部修法失去它的意義啊否定會不會是這樣呢大家想把這個放進來這個我先預告一下我可以先提醒不能走回頭路把舊計有漏洞的把它補上來是對的但是把這個又把它給砍掉的話\n\n10:10.933 --> 10:35.068\n我都覺得期期以為不可啦但是接下來就碰到一個問題啦你說像比如說強制抽血的部分那111年憲判制要出來以後那個部分啊這個屬於檢察官的一個要求20小時內呈報檢察官然後屬於檢察官的處分可以准看告可是呢我擔心的是說除了這些以外\n\n10:36.423 --> 10:59.945\n還有沒有其他我們有漏洞掉。那我們今天把警察的部分我們把他給含塞進來啦。就說這個處分24小時這個你有處分以後有對人民有干預的那要給他一個救濟的管道。我比較擔心的是說反而是碰到司法院這邊。司法院要\n\n11:01.269 --> 11:14.245\n府民長你就必須要很誠實的來講啦這樣的一個像一個準抗抗的一個方式會不會造成現在實務上你們會有很大的衝擊這第一個第二個你們如何來做一個應變\n\n11:18.126 --> 11:42.433\n跟委員報告齁那個准抗告的這個擴大齁從我們事務院報告上我意思說你有難題你的難題你有辦法改觀嗎將來我們這一部分的話司法的量能案件一定會增加而且而且說我們報告裡面有寫齁其實今天任何一個任何一個不管是司法警察或者其他人做的這個違法處分將來一定會有法律責任包含說國家賠償或者是\n\n11:43.173 --> 12:09.346\n或者是其他的責任追究那部分都要去判斷你一個機關的作用不管你是採尿、驗尿這些東西都會有那麼是不是要在這個416那邊給一個中間性質的這個一個宣告違法而已那我們認為說這不能再做爭執所以說實際上的執行面我們當然會做後續的這些的研議會跟華國部一起再來去面對這些的問題\n\n12:10.266 --> 12:36.762\n我相信等一下我們進這部法律的審理到最後這個地方很有可能卡關了很有可能卡關了其實這個部分其實要向國人好好去做一個說明其實也要跟立法院來做一個溝通你怎麼樣去達到這樣的一個平衡啊一個法治國家裡面台灣已經進步到這種地步了你任何一個強制處分干預的一個手段裡面立法院這個地方一定會受到提醒嘛\n\n12:37.982 --> 12:44.508\n這麼多的法界的甚至於你們在司法實務人也有時候也會來跟我們討論那我們也會在這個地方示警提出來那這個是我也希望說我也希望說我們在立法的時候這個部分不是單靠一套規則來解決所有的問題法務部這個地方你們確實也要去做一個反思就是說並且監督這些新法的一個實施裡面確保他們在合法的範圍來做一個執行\n\n13:04.266 --> 13:19.362\n而且你有充分的一個救濟的一個途徑保護老百姓的隱私或者那基本權利這個其實作為一個人的基本的啦各位不管部長不管是署長你們各位你們下班以後你們也都是人民啊\n\n13:20.123 --> 13:37.177\n那這些部分都是基本權利的一個保障啊所以我認為這個部分我們要特別小心尤其是我上次我們上次修法通過的整個課程法把新的武器給放進來了我們把這一些資料的保存跟管理的方式我們都已經建立那個機制我們的執法還沒有定上來這個部分輕易把它萬一有拿掉的話這個我反對\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.458,"end":16.181,"text":"謝謝莊瑞,有請我們法務部正部長。麻煩部長。還有我們警政署的署長。刑事警察局局長也請上台。總長來了,請總長也上台。麻煩總長。"},{"start":29.793,"end":30.113,"text":"昨天大家都認為阿是"},{"start":51.021,"end":72.635,"text":"我在網路上很多啊,都是黃牛的大豐收日啊。那我一下來就教,你們搶答好了。秋刀魚的滋味,貓和你都想了解。知道這一首歌,誰唱了舉手?你知不知道?我們猜就是卓杰倫。你猜卓杰倫,多名啊,你知不知道?"},{"start":77.947,"end":99.661,"text":"但是重點不在這裡啦重點是搶到票的滋味大部分的歌迷都沒有辦法了解這個才是重點為什麼連這個總長都請你上來了這不是小事情這是大事情對民眾來講的話如果說一場受到民眾大家都喜愛的一個演唱會然後大多數的人"},{"start":100.543,"end":125.35,"text":"很公平的 然後要去買這個票很公平 照理講很公平嘛 大家希望我前十幾天 我在辦公室給他獲得邀請我助理 大家都在招票 沒有人買到 都沒有人買到 都買不到所以呢 這個昨天的票這樣開慢以後 在短短的20分鐘裡面 就被搶光了 那我想很多 你們可能也要稍微注意一下 很多歌迷就在臉書上講 他說要在臉書上辦活動 就算"},{"start":129.051,"end":143.62,"text":"爬到大巨蛋的下水道而去聽周杰倫的演唱會這是很嚴重的事你知道嗎那當然我要接下來要請教各位的就是說我先撇開黃牛票的違法不談來看看一下投影片這個就涉及到我們的你看在62萬人的一個臉書裡面你看如果你是歌迷買不到票的話"},{"start":157.421,"end":180.231,"text":"他秀上這樣的一個一個訊息上去你很有可能啊你很有可能哦這西裝的刮白他可能這個時候搶不到票理智縣都已經斷了一半了很有可能馬上就去匯款了一張這樣4880 4880是還好哦你看他說這四張四張這樣兩萬塊就輕易我如果詐騙他們詐騙集團輕易的就到手了"},{"start":187.028,"end":198.739,"text":"緊急的就到手了那我要就教於各位的就是說我們在去年喔去年我們修法這樣子通過了以後啊"},{"start":199.793,"end":217.2,"text":"那是不是各位有沒有辦法去想到說我們除了主動的讓我們的消費大眾來做一個檢舉歌名來檢舉以外還有沒有什麼辦法來加速提升整個執法的一個效率因為我們在去年文化創意的產業發展條例文化創意產這個發展條條例發展法"},{"start":224.09,"end":246.514,"text":"我們通過以後是說你用掃票機器人或者是用外掛的程式你如果用這樣的方式搶票的話這不正的手法三年以下有期徒刑甚至罰到三百萬可是問題是我們立法了我們立法了以後我們是說規定這樣的一個犯罪的一個太陽可是問題是有犯罪太陽可是你怎麼執行總長你怎麼知道"},{"start":251.923,"end":260.289,"text":"您可能比較屬於指揮啊可能第一線會在署長張署長您家跟刑事警察局局長家 處長您有被搶到票嗎 也是搶不到啊 啊你也搶不到 你期望值有沒有改變"},{"start":265.956,"end":282.742,"text":"那當然啦 這一般的民眾也是這樣你也說期末期末 這樣你看有可能也是歌迷啦 大家都喜歡聽啦因為會把這一些像周杰倫啊 這些大牌的 就是大家要聽他的歌嘛 做他的歌唄 這個沒有什麼不對啊這對於都失蹤的 聽到後心情越輕鬆的 還有共同成長的記憶啊 這個都很正常啊 可是呢"},{"start":287.083,"end":310.296,"text":"站在執法機關的立場的話我們去年通過這樣的一個法律也賦予說如果說很可惡的你用這樣的一個方式掃票機器人或者外掛的程式去那我們你除了我來跟你檢舉說書店我都賣沒票捏還是要在那邊時間就用手機料啊是不是有人用掃票機器人是不是有人用外掛的程式像這種方式的話你有沒有辦法"},{"start":314.158,"end":336.232,"text":"從同步看出一定的端倪,或者說有什麼方式可以事先去做一個預防。請教署長。拜訪委員,我想這個黃紐是大家都一直怨怒的一件事情。剛剛委員所提的,他是不是有沒有用AI或外外的程式來購買這個票。第一個,"},{"start":338.994,"end":357.042,"text":"我們應該跟售票系統來做一個聯繫啦售票它的售票比如這一次是拓園嘛那這裡面有沒有同一個IP是一個IP裡面賣一百張兩百張三百張這種狀況跟售票系統來做一個聯繫有沒有異常的這樣的一個過票"},{"start":358.783,"end":374.15,"text":"來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做從這方面去做一個起立的源頭來做一個起立的源頭來做一個起立的源頭來做一個起立的源頭來做一個起立"},{"start":384.415,"end":410.29,"text":"獲得票的就在賣票的這個行為那我曾經我跟委員報告我是從台北市來台北市的大巨蛋第一次在開幕賽的時候我就黃牛就抓了一百多個一百多個抓一百多個黃牛你這張拍什麼錄整個這張嗎?你不是說把他抓成這樣你錄不完嗎?我給你看一張我給你看介紹好不好這個是我很擔心是因為這樣子而涉及到我詐騙你去看"},{"start":411.311,"end":417.018,"text":"你看看,搖滾區,一張加多少?除了6880以外,一張加四萬五喔!啊你如果是5880的,一張加四萬三喔!4880的一張加三萬八,那要命耶!那一張如果是6880,加四萬五一張票,那五萬幾塊耶!"},{"start":432.384,"end":460.011,"text":"這個 這個我們會來追查啦是 我的意思是說上上在網路上這些流的這些賣票的這些的狀況我們都會網路形容來做追查那個真的不要開玩笑會來追查一張票它不是門票的一個價值而已啊它是承載了這些歌迷對他青春那個還有回憶還有偶像的深愛的一個後裔啊這個這種愛意啊 深厚的愛意啊那你注意去把它看"},{"start":460.771,"end":466.554,"text":"我如果買不到票啊剛好網路上像這樣秀出來以後啊我有做過做過可能你說4張嗎好回去啊回去都要詐騙啊詐騙大家都挨挨救所以我是認為說槍的一個方式喔那賣單消費者來啦"},{"start":475.846,"end":480.248,"text":"主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席主動出席"},{"start":496.374,"end":518.32,"text":"科技偵查法的推動對於犯罪偵訪是重大的一個進步也是一個法治國家裡面在打擊犯罪跟保障人權之間你如何去取得這樣的一個平衡不管是專法或刑事訴訟法我們既然把它列在刑事訴訟法的一個強制處分章裡面但是怎麼樣去把它按照那個強度"},{"start":520.373,"end":542.086,"text":"那種對於當事人的一個侵害的或者說限縮權力的一個強度去做法律保留我相信不同的干預手段裡面都要有救濟我最擔心的是什麼我們有干預處分然後你沒有救濟我們上次的修法其實我就不斷的提醒外公警察的部分你怎麼辦"},{"start":543.991,"end":557.76,"text":"按照民眾黨的版本通過了那大家共同承擔嘛那你現在要來補破網啦要來做一個這樣的一個救濟啦那我想請教的是說如果現在是按照民眾黨把一百五十三條之十全部都刪掉的話不要忘記喔"},{"start":559.537,"end":584.862,"text":"我上次特別提醒我們也特別去把它加進去喔我們在整個一百五十三條之十一二三第五項的時候我們去特意把它訂定依本章實施調查的方式所得的資料之保存管理跟消毀、懲暴、通知、救濟、監督其他相關事項的辦理要司法院會同行就你們要去訂立執法欸那今天這個如果全部都砍掉那你怎麼辦"},{"start":588.663,"end":609.839,"text":"那這部分沒有放進來 那我們上次整部修法失去它的意義啊 否定會不會是這樣呢 大家想把這個放進來 這個我先預告一下 我可以先提醒 不能走回頭路 把舊計有漏洞的把它補上來是對的 但是把這個又把它給砍掉的話"},{"start":610.933,"end":635.068,"text":"我都覺得期期以為不可啦但是接下來就碰到一個問題啦你說像比如說強制抽血的部分那111年憲判制要出來以後那個部分啊這個屬於檢察官的一個要求20小時內呈報檢察官然後屬於檢察官的處分可以准看告可是呢我擔心的是說除了這些以外"},{"start":636.423,"end":659.945,"text":"還有沒有其他我們有漏洞掉。那我們今天把警察的部分我們把他給含塞進來啦。就說這個處分24小時這個你有處分以後有對人民有干預的那要給他一個救濟的管道。我比較擔心的是說反而是碰到司法院這邊。司法院要"},{"start":661.269,"end":674.245,"text":"府民長你就必須要很誠實的來講啦這樣的一個像一個準抗抗的一個方式會不會造成現在實務上你們會有很大的衝擊這第一個第二個你們如何來做一個應變"},{"start":678.126,"end":702.433,"text":"跟委員報告齁 那個准抗告的這個擴大齁 從我們事務院報告上我意思說你有難題 你的難題 你有辦法改觀嗎將來我們這一部分的話 司法的量能案件一定會增加而且 而且說我們報告裡面有寫齁 其實今天任何一個 任何一個不管是司法警察或者其他人做的這個違法處分將來一定會有法律責任 包含說國家賠償或者是"},{"start":703.173,"end":729.346,"text":"或者是其他的責任追究那部分都要去判斷你一個機關的作用不管你是採尿、驗尿這些東西都會有那麼是不是要在這個416那邊給一個中間性質的這個一個宣告違法而已那我們認為說這不能再做爭執所以說實際上的執行面我們當然會做後續的這些的研議會跟華國部一起再來去面對這些的問題"},{"start":730.266,"end":756.762,"text":"我相信等一下我們進這部法律的審理到最後這個地方很有可能卡關了很有可能卡關了其實這個部分其實要向國人好好去做一個說明其實也要跟立法院來做一個溝通你怎麼樣去達到這樣的一個平衡啊一個法治國家裡面台灣已經進步到這種地步了你任何一個強制處分干預的一個手段裡面立法院這個地方一定會受到提醒嘛"},{"start":757.982,"end":764.508,"text":"這麼多的法界的甚至於你們在司法實務人也有時候也會來跟我們討論那我們也會在這個地方示警提出來那這個是我也希望說我也希望說我們在立法的時候這個部分不是單靠一套規則來解決所有的問題法務部這個地方你們確實也要去做一個反思就是說並且監督這些新法的一個實施裡面確保他們在合法的範圍來做一個執行"},{"start":784.266,"end":799.362,"text":"而且你有充分的一個救濟的一個途徑保護老百姓的隱私或者那基本權利這個其實作為一個人的基本的啦各位不管部長不管是署長你們各位你們下班以後你們也都是人民啊"},{"start":800.123,"end":817.177,"text":"那這些部分都是基本權利的一個保障啊所以我認為這個部分我們要特別小心尤其是我上次我們上次修法通過的整個課程法把新的武器給放進來了我們把這一些資料的保存跟管理的方式我們都已經建立那個機制我們的執法還沒有定上來這個部分輕易把它萬一有拿掉的話這個我反對"},{"start":823.968,"end":843.046,"text":"謝謝。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":231,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（9時15分）謝謝召委，有請法務部鄭部長。"],["主席：麻煩部長。"],["莊委員瑞雄：還有警政署署長，刑事警察局局長也請上臺。"],["主席：署長、局長。"],["莊委員瑞雄：總長來了，請總長也上臺。"],["主席：麻煩總長。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我就沒有一一稱呼，部長跟總長，你們知道昨天是什麼大日子嗎？你們的感受？"],["鄭部長銘謙：周杰倫的演唱會，售票！"],["莊委員瑞雄：售票啦，演唱會都還沒開始。"],["鄭部長銘謙：因為這個我不太……"],["莊委員瑞雄：昨天網路上很多人都認為是黃牛的大豐收日！我以下來就教，你們搶答好了，「秋刀魚的滋味，貓跟妳都想了解」，知道這一首歌誰唱的請舉手，你們知道誰嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們猜周杰倫。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你猜周杰倫，歌名你知道嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員剛才有提到。"],["莊委員瑞雄：七里香。但是重點不在這裡，重點是搶到票的滋味，大部分的歌迷都沒有辦法了解，這個才是重點！為什麼連總長都請你上來？這不是小事情、這是大事情！對民眾來講，如果說一場大家都喜愛的演唱會，然後大多數的人很公平的要去買這個票，照理說很公平，昨天12點我辦公室那邊，夭壽，我的助理都跑去搶票，也沒人買到、都買不到！昨天的票開賣以後，在短短的20分鐘內就被搶光了，你們可能也要稍微注意一下，很多歌迷就在臉書上講，他們說要在臉書上辦活動，就算爬到大巨蛋的下水道也去聽周杰倫的演唱會！這是很嚴重的事情，你知道嗎？","我接下來要請教各位的就是，我先撇開黃牛票的違法不談，來看一下投影片，你看，在62萬人的臉書社團裡面，如果你是歌迷買不到票的話，他秀上這樣的訊息上去，死忠的歌迷可能這個時候搶不到票，理智線都已經斷了一半，很有可能馬上就去匯款，一張4,880，對不對？4,880是還好，你看他說這是4張的，如果他是詐騙集團，4張這樣2萬塊輕易的就到手囉！我要就教於各位的就是，去年我們修法通過以後，各位有沒有辦法去想到，我們除了主動讓消費大眾來檢舉、歌迷來檢舉以外，還有沒有什麼辦法來加速提升整個執法效率？","去年在文化創意產業發展法通過以後，如果用掃票機器人或者是外掛程式等方式去搶票的話，不正的手法處三年以下有期徒刑，甚至罰到三百萬。我們立法以後規定這樣的犯罪態樣，可是問題是，即便有犯罪態樣，可是你怎麼執行？這部分總長，你們知道嗎？你們可能比較屬於指揮，可能第一線會在張署長你們這裡跟刑事警察局局長這裡。署長，你有搶到票嗎？"],["張署長榮興：也是搶不到啊。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你也搶不到，你心情有很差嗎？"],["張署長榮興：那當然，一般的民眾也是這樣，正常感受。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你也說心情很差，這樣你很有可能也是歌迷，大家都喜歡聽，因為像周杰倫這些大牌的，就是大家愛聽他的歌、當他的歌迷，這個沒有什麼不對，這些人對他都很死忠，聽到之後心情多輕鬆，還有共同成長的記憶，這個都很正常。可是站在執法機關的立場，我們去年通過這樣的一個法律，也賦予說，如果有很可惡的、你用這樣的方式──掃票機器人或者外掛程式，除了我來跟你檢舉說：署長，我都買不到票，怎麼會那麼短的時間就被搶光了，是不是有人用掃票機器人、是不是有人用外掛程式？像這種方式的話，你有沒有辦法同步看出一定的端倪，或者有什麼方式可以事先去預防？請教署長。"],["張署長榮興：報告委員，我想黃牛是大家都一直怨怒的一件事情，剛剛委員所提的，他有沒有用AI或外掛程式來購買這個票？第一個，我們應該跟售票系統做聯繫，比如這一次是拓元，那這裡面有沒有是同一個IP買100張、200張、300張這種狀況，跟售票系統聯繫看有沒有異常的購票，從這方面去做源頭取締，這是第一個。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你現在跟我說的是理論推演。"],["張署長榮興：不是，我是說……"],["莊委員瑞雄：我現在是在跟你說，以這一次實際來……"],["張署長榮興：就這一次、這一次，因為你還沒……"],["莊委員瑞雄：那你們有去做嗎？"],["張署長榮興：因為昨天才發生，我昨天晚上就有下通報給全國的同仁，從網路上類似這樣去搜尋，看看有沒有這種搶到票就在賣票的行為。跟委員報告，我是從臺北市來，臺北市的大巨蛋第一次在開幕賽的時候，我就抓了一百多個黃牛。"],["莊委員瑞雄：一百多個，那你這場打算要抓幾個？不要說到時你抓不到半個。"],["張署長榮興：沒有，這場……"],["莊委員瑞雄：我給你看價錢，好不好？我很擔心，因為這樣子而涉及到詐騙。你看搖滾區一張多了多少？除了6,880以外，一張多四萬五！若是5,880的一張多四萬三喔！4,880的一張要多三萬八，夭壽耶！若是6,880，再加四萬五，一張票要五萬多塊哩！"],["張署長榮興：這個我們會追查。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是，我的意思就是……"],["張署長榮興：在網路上這些賣票的狀況，我們都會網路巡邏來追查。"],["莊委員瑞雄：那個真的不要開玩笑。"],["張署長榮興：會追查。"],["莊委員瑞雄：一張票不是門票的價值而已，它是承載了這些歌迷對他的青春、回憶，還有對偶像這種深厚的愛意。你注意去看，我如果買不到票，剛好網路上像這樣秀出來以後，你說4張也好，我很有可能匯款過去之後，剛好是詐騙，大家都唉唉叫。所以我是認為這樣的一個方式，不要等消費者來，我們主動出擊啦！這樣好不好？"],["張署長榮興：沒有，現在已經主動出擊了。"],["莊委員瑞雄：主動出擊喔？"],["張署長榮興：現在已經主動出擊。"],["莊委員瑞雄：那今天應該有一些成績。"],["張署長榮興：今天應該會有。"],["莊委員瑞雄：這樣很好。接下來就是今天的重頭戲了，我看今天的整個修法裡面，我請司法院副秘書長也上來一下，科技偵查法的推動，對於犯罪偵防是重大的進步，也是一個法治國家在打擊犯罪與保障人權之間，看如何去取得這樣的平衡。不管是專法或刑事訴訟法，我們既然把它列在刑事訴訟法的強制處分章裡面，但是怎麼樣去把它按照強度、那種對於當事人的侵害或者限縮權利的強度，做法律保留，我相信不同的干預手段裡面都要有救濟。我最擔心的是什麼？我們有干預處分，然後你沒有救濟，我們上次的修法其實我就不斷地提醒，我說警察的部分你怎麼辦？後來按照民眾黨的版本通過，大家共同承擔嘛！","你現在要來補破網，要做這樣的救濟，那我想請教，如果現在是按照民眾黨版，第一百五十三條之十全部都刪掉的話，不要忘記，我上次特別提醒，我們也特別把它加進去喔！在整個第一百五十三條之十，第五項我們特意訂定，依本章實施調查之方式、所得資料之保存、管理及銷燬、陳報、通知、救濟、監督及其他相關事項的辦理，要司法院會同行政院定之，你們要訂立子法耶！今天你這個如果全部都把它砍掉，那你怎麼辦？這部分沒有放進來，那我們上次整部修法失去它的意義啊！部長，難道不是這樣嗎？大家用腦袋想得要死，將這個放進來，這個我先預告一下，我先提醒，不能走回頭路，把救濟有漏洞的補上來是對的，但是這個又把它給砍掉的話，我都覺得，期期以為不可！","但是接下來就碰到一個問題了，譬如強制抽血的部分，111年憲判字1號出來以後，要求24小時內陳報檢察官，屬於檢察官的處分，可以準抗告。可是我擔心的是，除了這些以外，還有沒有其他漏洞、我們有漏掉的？今天警察的部分我們把它涵攝進來了，這個處分，24小時的這個，你處分以後對人民有干預了，那要給他一個救濟的管道。我比較擔心的是，我們上次說到的那個，反而是碰到司法院這邊，司法院副秘書長你就必須要很誠實講，這樣一個像準抗告的方式，會不會造成現在實務上你們有很大的衝擊？這是第一個。第二個，你們如何應變？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：跟委員報告，那個準抗告的擴大，從我們書面報告……"],["莊委員瑞雄：我的意思是，你們有難題，你們的難題，你們有辦法解決嗎？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：將來這部分的話，司法的量能，案件一定會增加，而且我們的報告裡面有寫，其實今天任何一個不管是司法警察或者其他人作的違法處分，將來一定會有法律責任，包含國家賠償或者其他的責任追究，那部分都要去判斷機關的行為，不管是採尿、驗尿這些東西都會有。那麼是不是要在第四百十六條那邊給中間性質的一個宣告，違法而已，我們是認為這部分再做斟酌。至於實際上的執行面，我們當然會做後續研議，會跟法務部一起面對這些問題。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我相信等一下這部法律的審理，到最後這個地方很有可能卡關。這個部分其實要向國人好好做說明，也要跟立法院溝通，你怎麼樣達到這樣的平衡？一個法治國家裡面，臺灣已經進步到這種地步，任何強制處分的干預手段，立法院這個地方一定會受到提醒，這麼多法界的，甚至於你們在司法實務的人有時候也會來跟我們討論，那我們也會在這個地方示警提出來。這個時候我也希望，我們在立法的時候，這個部分不是單靠一套規則來解決所有的問題，法務部在這個地方確實也要反思，並且監督這些新法的實施當中，確保他們在合法的範圍執行。而且你有充分的救濟途徑，保護老百姓的隱私或者基本權利，作為一個人基本的，不管部長或署長，各位下班以後你們也都是人民，這些部分都是基本權利的保障啊！","所以我認為這個部分我們要特別小心，尤其是我們上次修法通過的整個科偵法，把新的武器放進來了，這些資料的保存和管理方式我們都已經建立機制，我們子法還沒有訂，這個部分萬一拿掉的話，這個我反對。站在行政部門的立場，你們也都應該去捍衛，進步的方向本來就要一起走，影響到整個司法院或者整個法官這種量能不足的難題，也要想辦法解決，提出解決之道，好不好？好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。下一位我們請鍾佳濱召委進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-8","speakers":["吳宗憲","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","黃國昌","沈發惠","羅智強","林思銘","吳思瑤","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","翁曉玲","陳俊宇"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1139001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"併案審查(一)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員鍾佳濱等19人\n擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百五十三條之十條文修正草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1139001_00001"}}}