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\"end\": 554.554, \"score\": 0.664}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 554.554, \"end\": 554.674, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"覆\", \"start\": 554.674, \"end\": 554.694, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,350 --> 00:00:06,185\n請林代化委員有請劉組委議員、國會劉組委\n\n2\n00:00:16,633 --> 00:00:42,043\n林委員早好各位這個本席啊認為整個涉及11個政府部門所提出的少子化政策就是兩個字叫無感所以導致了少子化的狀況是日趨嚴重啊你們從不提本國在全世界少子化的排名我們現在倒數第二名跟韓國倒數第一名只差0.01\n\n3\n00:00:44,730 --> 00:01:11,708\n所以我本席認為所有的各部會當中誰講得最好誰爬出得最清楚叫做人事行政總處人事行政總處的最後一段少子化成因交織複雜涉及價值觀、經濟壓力如何兼顧育兒及就業育兒等面向其關鍵在於這句話是重點啦其關鍵在於所提對策能否切合\n\n4\n00:01:12,689 --> 00:01:31,690\n並有效改善,並非單一部會能夠處理。」你們所有其他各部會都講說只強調一點這不是單一部會可以處理的所以都大概我就做我的那成效如何我不管所以現在的少子化政策叫什麼既沒有契合問題也沒有改善問題\n\n5\n00:01:32,731 --> 00:01:51,270\n好主委先回答本席三個問題第一個衛福部106年成立少子化辦公室目前少子化辦公室有沒有運作第二個行政院下有沒有少子化辦公室第三個520之後我們少子化的對策開了幾次會回答\n\n6\n00:01:54,413 --> 00:02:12,292\n跟委員報告少子化辦公室已經移到行政院在運作那目前是有在運作那我們在公布人口報告的時候我們總共開了三次會議五二零之後嗎關我的報告公告前我要提升到行政院層次五二零之後\n\n7\n00:02:13,192 --> 00:02:39,619\n五二零之後我參與過三次針對這個報告但五二零之前因為我沒有參與到五二零之後本席所掌握的是十二次報告十二次您再爬數一下本席所掌握的陳時中就十月一號開過一次會五二零之後好那所以現在行政院下有少子化辦公室這個實質的這個辦公室嗎那少子人叫做政委嗎\n\n8\n00:02:40,800 --> 00:03:08,707\n目前是﹚所以有少子化辦公室那這個你來那這個本席認為嚴重的原因在低薪是導致少子化的問題何部長講到這個10月17號勞動部月薪3萬1以下是屬於低薪這也將影響到120萬的勞動力那勞動力呢既然是逐漸下降勞動的供給我們供需勞動力的供給減少\n\n9\n00:03:09,787 --> 00:03:34,680\n那薪資理論上是要增加的可是是沒有的所以各級企業面臨嚴重的勞動力短缺生產力當然有限那低薪我講的是實質所得導致少子化的問題日趨嚴重所以年輕人口的減少導致企業招聘困難特別是在勞動密集型的產業形成企業競爭力的下降所以產業與國力就是陷入惡性循環\n\n10\n00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:51,836\n所以在整個尤其各部會講的時候呢你們都不講生育這件事情了你們都不講你們只講留才攬才花了很大的以及高齡人口那這個如何生育如何支持生育這件事情是沒講的\n\n11\n00:03:52,557 --> 00:04:09,855\n好那少子化辦公室呢在行政院您說在行政院下我認為他也孤掌難鳴從衛福部的少子化到你現在行政院的少子化辦公室那個卓院長呢在這個去在這個國在這個院會當中他也直接講少子案是國安議題啊\n\n12\n00:04:11,639 --> 00:04:34,648\n國安議題啊所以你們在行政院下的這樣開會的頻率跟主責單位那政委不在我們立法院報告的啊不接受民意的那個啊的提點的啊那他怎麼會是個國安議題呢你們把國安把你們是末世少子漢是國安議題你把少子漢這樣國安議題是把國安議題當作塑膠\n\n13\n00:04:35,928 --> 00:04:51,941\n所以少子化的議題那我請問你國發會跟陳時中是什麼關係?國發會這個單位跟少子化辦公室的召集人陳時中政委是什麼關係?你們做什麼事?我們是在他的整個規劃方案裡面我們負責國外的攬才\n\n14\n00:04:55,584 --> 00:05:04,439\n國外的攬才國外的攬才這件事情所以你看阿今天召委很用心阿希望對於少子化這樣國安題提出來結果請了國發會做主責你只負責攬才\n\n15\n00:05:09,369 --> 00:05:31,537\n所以那到底我們要對整個行政院國安體我們怎麼質詢呢?我跟委員報告是這樣我上來之後其實我們也主動的做了這個人才競爭力的白皮書那我們也把各部位把人才需要全部整合我先不講競爭力我先要增加人數對人數我們現在就是跟勞動部也一起合作所以你就留才攬才嗎?不只不只我們現在也在所以你講生育是嗎?\n\n16\n00:05:35,104 --> 00:05:39,368\n民眾無感的政策導致問題擴大。第一個少子化政策偏重於幼兒的照護跟關懷第二個缺乏勞動政策支持與租稅優惠\n\n17\n00:05:51,599 --> 00:06:05,531\n第三、小孩不會因為照顧條件變好就自己蹦出來所以本席認為你所有的政策如果這是政委的政委在主導本席認為在婚配年輕化以及父母生育的誘因一定要提高這兩個這兩個才是正解\n\n18\n00:06:08,333 --> 00:06:37,105\n這兩個你沒下去我們現在都是30歲以後32歲以後女性的生育的黃金其實有極限的所以我們婚配的年輕化如何去獎勵我們父母的生育的誘因怎麼提高這個是要加強的好我們就看新加坡既然你們講到新加坡我覺得你們也沒講到重點第一個這在本期的總諮詢也提過在6月18號新加坡我認為這幾個特色在生育的部分21到35歲單身女性忍動卵子\n\n19\n00:06:37,785 --> 00:07:03,311\n第二、生育環境母親的有薪假應該在延伸16週附近的有薪陪產假4週好再來所得稅的減免因為我們你們也提說要這個婦女職業婦女啊所以你的第一胎要減少母親的總收入的15%第二胎你要減少他的總收入減免他的免稅額總收入20%第三胎以後減免他25%甚至可以到60%\n\n20\n00:07:06,232 --> 00:07:08,333\n主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n\n21\n00:07:29,039 --> 00:07:51,738\n百分之七五的經濟我們就補下去啦所以你們沒有針對生育的部分去做誘因啊好我具體建議第一個院會正式你要既然您是國發會統籌各部會本席要求您在院會要正式提案行政院底下成立專責的少子化委員會辦公室提升到委員會至於這個委員會要不要比照你國發委員會編制內的大陸委員會也好\n\n22\n00:07:54,720 --> 00:08:19,449\n你要成為公共工程委員會委員或者你行政院以下等同性平委員至少幕僚機構召集人就是院長啊幕僚的主責可以是陳時中啊你至少有一個委員會正式的運作怎麼會是5月5、20之後到現在陳時中才開一次會10月1號才開一次會這哪是國安議題啊第二個盡快嚴厲少子化白皮書\n\n23\n00:08:20,950 --> 00:08:46,285\n好,這白皮書要針對幾點?針對孕婦所需心理的諮商、生理的理療、產前的準備價甚至生育所得稅的減免鼓勵生育啊第二個,比照新加坡評估婦女生育所得稅的減免優惠第三,青年購屋如果提高青年早婚的意願青年住宅結合少子化的政策一、生育子女數給不同的優惠完全不需要抽籤\n\n24\n00:08:47,225 --> 00:09:07,195\n只要你願意生你青年也早一點結婚我們不需要抽籤讓青年能夠安穩定居第四個用國家的力量宣揚家庭的價值不分性向不分性別宣揚家庭的價值結合少子化的政策推動家庭的這個家庭日不是節日那這個主委你怎麼看呢?簡單回應\n\n25\n00:09:09,261 --> 00:09:14,694\n委員的建議我會找我會直接找院長報告我會給你一個答覆\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n350\t6185\t請林代化委員有請劉組委議員、國會劉組委\n16633\t42043\t林委員早好 各位這個本席啊認為整個涉及11個政府部門所提出的少子化政策就是兩個字叫無感所以導致了少子化的狀況是日趨嚴重啊你們從不提本國在全世界少子化的排名我們現在倒數第二名跟韓國倒數第一名只差0.01\n44730\t71708\t所以我本席認為所有的各部會當中誰講得最好誰爬出得最清楚叫做人事行政總處人事行政總處的最後一段少子化成因交織複雜涉及價值觀、經濟壓力如何兼顧育兒及就業育兒等面向其關鍵在於這句話是重點啦其關鍵在於所提對策能否切合\n72689\t91690\t並有效改善,並非單一部會能夠處理。」你們所有其他各部會都講說只強調一點這不是單一部會可以處理的所以都大概我就做我的那成效如何我不管所以現在的少子化政策叫什麼既沒有契合問題也沒有改善問題\n92731\t111270\t好 主委先回答本席三個問題第一個衛福部106年成立少子化辦公室目前少子化辦公室有沒有運作第二個行政院下有沒有少子化辦公室第三個520之後我們少子化的對策開了幾次會回答\n114413\t132292\t跟委員報告少子化辦公室已經移到行政院在運作那目前是有在運作那我們在公布人口報告的時候我們總共開了三次會議五二零之後嗎關我的報告公告前我要提升到行政院層次五二零之後\n133192\t159619\t五二零之後我參與過三次針對這個報告但五二零之前因為我沒有參與到五二零之後本席所掌握的是十二次報告十二次您再爬數一下本席所掌握的陳時中就十月一號開過一次會五二零之後好那所以現在行政院下有少子化辦公室這個實質的這個辦公室嗎那少子人叫做政委嗎\n160800\t188707\t目前是﹚所以有少子化辦公室那這個你來那這個本席認為嚴重的原因在低薪是導致少子化的問題何部長講到這個10月17號勞動部月薪3萬1以下是屬於低薪這也將影響到120萬的勞動力那勞動力呢既然是逐漸下降勞動的供給我們供需勞動力的供給減少\n189787\t214680\t那薪資理論上是要增加的可是是沒有的所以各級企業面臨嚴重的勞動力短缺生產力當然有限那低薪我講的是實質所得導致少子化的問題日趨嚴重所以年輕人口的減少導致企業招聘困難特別是在勞動密集型的產業形成企業競爭力的下降所以產業與國力就是陷入惡性循環\n215680\t231836\t所以在整個尤其各部會講的時候呢你們都不講生育這件事情了你們都不講你們只講留才攬才花了很大的以及高齡人口那這個如何生育如何支持生育這件事情是沒講的\n232557\t249855\t好那少子化辦公室呢在行政院您說在行政院下我認為他也孤掌難鳴從衛福部的少子化到你現在行政院的少子化辦公室那個卓院長呢在這個去在這個國在這個院會當中他也直接講少子案是國安議題啊\n251639\t274648\t國安議題啊所以你們在行政院下的這樣開會的頻率跟主責單位那政委不在我們立法院報告的啊不接受民意的那個啊的提點的啊那他怎麼會是個國安議題呢你們把國安把你們是末世少子漢是國安議題你把少子漢這樣國安議題是把國安議題當作塑膠\n275928\t291941\t所以少子化的議題那我請問你國發會跟陳時中是什麼關係?國發會這個單位跟少子化辦公室的召集人陳時中政委是什麼關係?你們做什麼事?我們是在他的整個規劃方案裡面我們負責國外的攬才\n295584\t304439\t國外的攬才 國外的攬才這件事情所以你看阿今天召委很用心阿希望對於少子化這樣國安題提出來結果請了國發會做主責你只負責攬才\n309369\t331537\t所以那到底我們要對整個行政院國安體我們怎麼質詢呢?我跟委員報告是這樣我上來之後其實我們也主動的做了這個人才競爭力的白皮書那我們也把各部位把人才需要全部整合我先不講競爭力我先要增加人數對人數我們現在就是跟勞動部也一起合作所以你就留才攬才嗎?不只不只我們現在也在所以你講生育是嗎?\n335104\t339368\t民眾無感的政策導致問題擴大。第一個少子化政策偏重於幼兒的照護跟關懷第二個缺乏勞動政策支持與租稅優惠\n351599\t365531\t第三、小孩不會因為照顧條件變好就自己蹦出來所以本席認為你所有的政策如果這是政委的政委在主導本席認為在婚配年輕化以及父母生育的誘因一定要提高這兩個這兩個才是正解\n368333\t397105\t這兩個你沒下去我們現在都是30歲以後32歲以後女性的生育的黃金其實有極限的所以我們婚配的年輕化如何去獎勵我們父母的生育的誘因怎麼提高這個是要加強的好我們就看新加坡既然你們講到新加坡我覺得你們也沒講到重點第一個這在本期的總諮詢也提過在6月18號新加坡我認為這幾個特色在生育的部分21到35歲單身女性忍動卵子\n397785\t423311\t第二、生育環境母親的有薪假應該在延伸16週附近的有薪陪產假4週好再來所得稅的減免因為我們你們也提說要這個婦女職業婦女啊所以你的第一胎要減少母親的總收入的15%第二胎你要減少他的總收入減免他的免稅額總收入20%第三胎以後減免他25%甚至可以到60%\n426232\t428333\t主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n449039\t471738\t百分之七五的經濟我們就補下去啦所以你們沒有針對生育的部分去做誘因啊好我具體建議第一個院會正式你要既然您是國發會統籌各部會本席要求您在院會要正式提案行政院底下成立專責的少子化委員會辦公室提升到委員會至於這個委員會要不要比照你國發委員會編制內的大陸委員會也好\n474720\t499449\t你要成為公共工程委員會委員或者你行政院以下等同性平委員至少幕僚機構召集人就是院長啊幕僚的主責可以是陳時中啊你至少有一個委員會正式的運作怎麼會是5月5、20之後到現在陳時中才開一次會10月1號才開一次會這哪是國安議題啊第二個盡快嚴厲少子化白皮書\n500950\t526285\t好,這白皮書要針對幾點?針對孕婦所需心理的諮商、生理的理療、產前的準備價甚至生育所得稅的減免鼓勵生育啊第二個,比照新加坡評估婦女生育所得稅的減免優惠第三,青年購屋如果提高青年早婚的意願青年住宅結合少子化的政策一、生育子女數給不同的優惠完全不需要抽籤\n527225\t547195\t只要你願意生你青年也早一點結婚我們不需要抽籤讓青年能夠安穩定居第四個用國家的力量宣揚家庭的價值不分性向不分性別宣揚家庭的價值結合少子化的政策推動家庭的這個家庭日不是節日那這個主委你怎麼看呢?簡單回應\n549261\t554694\t委員的建議我會找我會直接找院長報告我會給你一個答覆\n","txt":"請林代化委員有請劉組委議員、國會劉組委\n林委員早好 各位這個本席啊認為整個涉及11個政府部門所提出的少子化政策就是兩個字叫無感所以導致了少子化的狀況是日趨嚴重啊你們從不提本國在全世界少子化的排名我們現在倒數第二名跟韓國倒數第一名只差0.01\n所以我本席認為所有的各部會當中誰講得最好誰爬出得最清楚叫做人事行政總處人事行政總處的最後一段少子化成因交織複雜涉及價值觀、經濟壓力如何兼顧育兒及就業育兒等面向其關鍵在於這句話是重點啦其關鍵在於所提對策能否切合\n並有效改善,並非單一部會能夠處理。」你們所有其他各部會都講說只強調一點這不是單一部會可以處理的所以都大概我就做我的那成效如何我不管所以現在的少子化政策叫什麼既沒有契合問題也沒有改善問題\n好 主委先回答本席三個問題第一個衛福部106年成立少子化辦公室目前少子化辦公室有沒有運作第二個行政院下有沒有少子化辦公室第三個520之後我們少子化的對策開了幾次會回答\n跟委員報告少子化辦公室已經移到行政院在運作那目前是有在運作那我們在公布人口報告的時候我們總共開了三次會議五二零之後嗎關我的報告公告前我要提升到行政院層次五二零之後\n五二零之後我參與過三次針對這個報告但五二零之前因為我沒有參與到五二零之後本席所掌握的是十二次報告十二次您再爬數一下本席所掌握的陳時中就十月一號開過一次會五二零之後好那所以現在行政院下有少子化辦公室這個實質的這個辦公室嗎那少子人叫做政委嗎\n目前是﹚所以有少子化辦公室那這個你來那這個本席認為嚴重的原因在低薪是導致少子化的問題何部長講到這個10月17號勞動部月薪3萬1以下是屬於低薪這也將影響到120萬的勞動力那勞動力呢既然是逐漸下降勞動的供給我們供需勞動力的供給減少\n那薪資理論上是要增加的可是是沒有的所以各級企業面臨嚴重的勞動力短缺生產力當然有限那低薪我講的是實質所得導致少子化的問題日趨嚴重所以年輕人口的減少導致企業招聘困難特別是在勞動密集型的產業形成企業競爭力的下降所以產業與國力就是陷入惡性循環\n所以在整個尤其各部會講的時候呢你們都不講生育這件事情了你們都不講你們只講留才攬才花了很大的以及高齡人口那這個如何生育如何支持生育這件事情是沒講的\n好那少子化辦公室呢在行政院您說在行政院下我認為他也孤掌難鳴從衛福部的少子化到你現在行政院的少子化辦公室那個卓院長呢在這個去在這個國在這個院會當中他也直接講少子案是國安議題啊\n國安議題啊所以你們在行政院下的這樣開會的頻率跟主責單位那政委不在我們立法院報告的啊不接受民意的那個啊的提點的啊那他怎麼會是個國安議題呢你們把國安把你們是末世少子漢是國安議題你把少子漢這樣國安議題是把國安議題當作塑膠\n所以少子化的議題那我請問你國發會跟陳時中是什麼關係?國發會這個單位跟少子化辦公室的召集人陳時中政委是什麼關係?你們做什麼事?我們是在他的整個規劃方案裡面我們負責國外的攬才\n國外的攬才 國外的攬才這件事情所以你看阿今天召委很用心阿希望對於少子化這樣國安題提出來結果請了國發會做主責你只負責攬才\n所以那到底我們要對整個行政院國安體我們怎麼質詢呢?我跟委員報告是這樣我上來之後其實我們也主動的做了這個人才競爭力的白皮書那我們也把各部位把人才需要全部整合我先不講競爭力我先要增加人數對人數我們現在就是跟勞動部也一起合作所以你就留才攬才嗎?不只不只我們現在也在所以你講生育是嗎?\n民眾無感的政策導致問題擴大。第一個少子化政策偏重於幼兒的照護跟關懷第二個缺乏勞動政策支持與租稅優惠\n第三、小孩不會因為照顧條件變好就自己蹦出來所以本席認為你所有的政策如果這是政委的政委在主導本席認為在婚配年輕化以及父母生育的誘因一定要提高這兩個這兩個才是正解\n這兩個你沒下去我們現在都是30歲以後32歲以後女性的生育的黃金其實有極限的所以我們婚配的年輕化如何去獎勵我們父母的生育的誘因怎麼提高這個是要加強的好我們就看新加坡既然你們講到新加坡我覺得你們也沒講到重點第一個這在本期的總諮詢也提過在6月18號新加坡我認為這幾個特色在生育的部分21到35歲單身女性忍動卵子\n第二、生育環境母親的有薪假應該在延伸16週附近的有薪陪產假4週好再來所得稅的減免因為我們你們也提說要這個婦女職業婦女啊所以你的第一胎要減少母親的總收入的15%第二胎你要減少他的總收入減免他的免稅額總收入20%第三胎以後減免他25%甚至可以到60%\n主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n百分之七五的經濟我們就補下去啦所以你們沒有針對生育的部分去做誘因啊好我具體建議第一個院會正式你要既然您是國發會統籌各部會本席要求您在院會要正式提案行政院底下成立專責的少子化委員會辦公室提升到委員會至於這個委員會要不要比照你國發委員會編制內的大陸委員會也好\n你要成為公共工程委員會委員或者你行政院以下等同性平委員至少幕僚機構召集人就是院長啊幕僚的主責可以是陳時中啊你至少有一個委員會正式的運作怎麼會是5月5、20之後到現在陳時中才開一次會10月1號才開一次會這哪是國安議題啊第二個盡快嚴厲少子化白皮書\n好,這白皮書要針對幾點?針對孕婦所需心理的諮商、生理的理療、產前的準備價甚至生育所得稅的減免鼓勵生育啊第二個,比照新加坡評估婦女生育所得稅的減免優惠第三,青年購屋如果提高青年早婚的意願青年住宅結合少子化的政策一、生育子女數給不同的優惠完全不需要抽籤\n只要你願意生你青年也早一點結婚我們不需要抽籤讓青年能夠安穩定居第四個用國家的力量宣揚家庭的價值不分性向不分性別宣揚家庭的價值結合少子化的政策推動家庭的這個家庭日不是節日那這個主委你怎麼看呢?簡單回應\n委員的建議我會找我會直接找院長報告我會給你一個答覆\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.350 --> 00:06.185\n請林代化委員有請劉組委議員、國會劉組委\n\n00:16.633 --> 00:42.043\n林委員早好各位這個本席啊認為整個涉及11個政府部門所提出的少子化政策就是兩個字叫無感所以導致了少子化的狀況是日趨嚴重啊你們從不提本國在全世界少子化的排名我們現在倒數第二名跟韓國倒數第一名只差0.01\n\n00:44.730 --> 01:11.708\n所以我本席認為所有的各部會當中誰講得最好誰爬出得最清楚叫做人事行政總處人事行政總處的最後一段少子化成因交織複雜涉及價值觀、經濟壓力如何兼顧育兒及就業育兒等面向其關鍵在於這句話是重點啦其關鍵在於所提對策能否切合\n\n01:12.689 --> 01:31.690\n並有效改善,並非單一部會能夠處理。」你們所有其他各部會都講說只強調一點這不是單一部會可以處理的所以都大概我就做我的那成效如何我不管所以現在的少子化政策叫什麼既沒有契合問題也沒有改善問題\n\n01:32.731 --> 01:51.270\n好主委先回答本席三個問題第一個衛福部106年成立少子化辦公室目前少子化辦公室有沒有運作第二個行政院下有沒有少子化辦公室第三個520之後我們少子化的對策開了幾次會回答\n\n01:54.413 --> 02:12.292\n跟委員報告少子化辦公室已經移到行政院在運作那目前是有在運作那我們在公布人口報告的時候我們總共開了三次會議五二零之後嗎關我的報告公告前我要提升到行政院層次五二零之後\n\n02:13.192 --> 02:39.619\n五二零之後我參與過三次針對這個報告但五二零之前因為我沒有參與到五二零之後本席所掌握的是十二次報告十二次您再爬數一下本席所掌握的陳時中就十月一號開過一次會五二零之後好那所以現在行政院下有少子化辦公室這個實質的這個辦公室嗎那少子人叫做政委嗎\n\n02:40.800 --> 03:08.707\n目前是﹚所以有少子化辦公室那這個你來那這個本席認為嚴重的原因在低薪是導致少子化的問題何部長講到這個10月17號勞動部月薪3萬1以下是屬於低薪這也將影響到120萬的勞動力那勞動力呢既然是逐漸下降勞動的供給我們供需勞動力的供給減少\n\n03:09.787 --> 03:34.680\n那薪資理論上是要增加的可是是沒有的所以各級企業面臨嚴重的勞動力短缺生產力當然有限那低薪我講的是實質所得導致少子化的問題日趨嚴重所以年輕人口的減少導致企業招聘困難特別是在勞動密集型的產業形成企業競爭力的下降所以產業與國力就是陷入惡性循環\n\n03:35.680 --> 03:51.836\n所以在整個尤其各部會講的時候呢你們都不講生育這件事情了你們都不講你們只講留才攬才花了很大的以及高齡人口那這個如何生育如何支持生育這件事情是沒講的\n\n03:52.557 --> 04:09.855\n好那少子化辦公室呢在行政院您說在行政院下我認為他也孤掌難鳴從衛福部的少子化到你現在行政院的少子化辦公室那個卓院長呢在這個去在這個國在這個院會當中他也直接講少子案是國安議題啊\n\n04:11.639 --> 04:34.648\n國安議題啊所以你們在行政院下的這樣開會的頻率跟主責單位那政委不在我們立法院報告的啊不接受民意的那個啊的提點的啊那他怎麼會是個國安議題呢你們把國安把你們是末世少子漢是國安議題你把少子漢這樣國安議題是把國安議題當作塑膠\n\n04:35.928 --> 04:51.941\n所以少子化的議題那我請問你國發會跟陳時中是什麼關係?國發會這個單位跟少子化辦公室的召集人陳時中政委是什麼關係?你們做什麼事?我們是在他的整個規劃方案裡面我們負責國外的攬才\n\n04:55.584 --> 05:04.439\n國外的攬才國外的攬才這件事情所以你看阿今天召委很用心阿希望對於少子化這樣國安題提出來結果請了國發會做主責你只負責攬才\n\n05:09.369 --> 05:31.537\n所以那到底我們要對整個行政院國安體我們怎麼質詢呢?我跟委員報告是這樣我上來之後其實我們也主動的做了這個人才競爭力的白皮書那我們也把各部位把人才需要全部整合我先不講競爭力我先要增加人數對人數我們現在就是跟勞動部也一起合作所以你就留才攬才嗎?不只不只我們現在也在所以你講生育是嗎?\n\n05:35.104 --> 05:39.368\n民眾無感的政策導致問題擴大。第一個少子化政策偏重於幼兒的照護跟關懷第二個缺乏勞動政策支持與租稅優惠\n\n05:51.599 --> 06:05.531\n第三、小孩不會因為照顧條件變好就自己蹦出來所以本席認為你所有的政策如果這是政委的政委在主導本席認為在婚配年輕化以及父母生育的誘因一定要提高這兩個這兩個才是正解\n\n06:08.333 --> 06:37.105\n這兩個你沒下去我們現在都是30歲以後32歲以後女性的生育的黃金其實有極限的所以我們婚配的年輕化如何去獎勵我們父母的生育的誘因怎麼提高這個是要加強的好我們就看新加坡既然你們講到新加坡我覺得你們也沒講到重點第一個這在本期的總諮詢也提過在6月18號新加坡我認為這幾個特色在生育的部分21到35歲單身女性忍動卵子\n\n06:37.785 --> 07:03.311\n第二、生育環境母親的有薪假應該在延伸16週附近的有薪陪產假4週好再來所得稅的減免因為我們你們也提說要這個婦女職業婦女啊所以你的第一胎要減少母親的總收入的15%第二胎你要減少他的總收入減免他的免稅額總收入20%第三胎以後減免他25%甚至可以到60%\n\n07:06.232 --> 07:08.333\n主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n\n07:29.039 --> 07:51.738\n百分之七五的經濟我們就補下去啦所以你們沒有針對生育的部分去做誘因啊好我具體建議第一個院會正式你要既然您是國發會統籌各部會本席要求您在院會要正式提案行政院底下成立專責的少子化委員會辦公室提升到委員會至於這個委員會要不要比照你國發委員會編制內的大陸委員會也好\n\n07:54.720 --> 08:19.449\n你要成為公共工程委員會委員或者你行政院以下等同性平委員至少幕僚機構召集人就是院長啊幕僚的主責可以是陳時中啊你至少有一個委員會正式的運作怎麼會是5月5、20之後到現在陳時中才開一次會10月1號才開一次會這哪是國安議題啊第二個盡快嚴厲少子化白皮書\n\n08:20.950 --> 08:46.285\n好,這白皮書要針對幾點?針對孕婦所需心理的諮商、生理的理療、產前的準備價甚至生育所得稅的減免鼓勵生育啊第二個,比照新加坡評估婦女生育所得稅的減免優惠第三,青年購屋如果提高青年早婚的意願青年住宅結合少子化的政策一、生育子女數給不同的優惠完全不需要抽籤\n\n08:47.225 --> 09:07.195\n只要你願意生你青年也早一點結婚我們不需要抽籤讓青年能夠安穩定居第四個用國家的力量宣揚家庭的價值不分性向不分性別宣揚家庭的價值結合少子化的政策推動家庭的這個家庭日不是節日那這個主委你怎麼看呢?簡單回應\n\n09:09.261 --> 09:14.694\n委員的建議我會找我會直接找院長報告我會給你一個答覆\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.35,"end":6.185,"text":"請林代化委員有請劉組委議員、國會劉組委"},{"start":16.633,"end":42.043,"text":"林委員早好 各位這個本席啊認為整個涉及11個政府部門所提出的少子化政策就是兩個字叫無感所以導致了少子化的狀況是日趨嚴重啊你們從不提本國在全世界少子化的排名我們現在倒數第二名跟韓國倒數第一名只差0.01"},{"start":44.73,"end":71.708,"text":"所以我本席認為所有的各部會當中誰講得最好誰爬出得最清楚叫做人事行政總處人事行政總處的最後一段少子化成因交織複雜涉及價值觀、經濟壓力如何兼顧育兒及就業育兒等面向其關鍵在於這句話是重點啦其關鍵在於所提對策能否切合"},{"start":72.689,"end":91.69,"text":"並有效改善,並非單一部會能夠處理。」你們所有其他各部會都講說只強調一點這不是單一部會可以處理的所以都大概我就做我的那成效如何我不管所以現在的少子化政策叫什麼既沒有契合問題也沒有改善問題"},{"start":92.731,"end":111.27,"text":"好 主委先回答本席三個問題第一個衛福部106年成立少子化辦公室目前少子化辦公室有沒有運作第二個行政院下有沒有少子化辦公室第三個520之後我們少子化的對策開了幾次會回答"},{"start":114.413,"end":132.292,"text":"跟委員報告少子化辦公室已經移到行政院在運作那目前是有在運作那我們在公布人口報告的時候我們總共開了三次會議五二零之後嗎關我的報告公告前我要提升到行政院層次五二零之後"},{"start":133.192,"end":159.619,"text":"五二零之後我參與過三次針對這個報告但五二零之前因為我沒有參與到五二零之後本席所掌握的是十二次報告十二次您再爬數一下本席所掌握的陳時中就十月一號開過一次會五二零之後好那所以現在行政院下有少子化辦公室這個實質的這個辦公室嗎那少子人叫做政委嗎"},{"start":160.8,"end":188.707,"text":"目前是﹚所以有少子化辦公室那這個你來那這個本席認為嚴重的原因在低薪是導致少子化的問題何部長講到這個10月17號勞動部月薪3萬1以下是屬於低薪這也將影響到120萬的勞動力那勞動力呢既然是逐漸下降勞動的供給我們供需勞動力的供給減少"},{"start":189.787,"end":214.68,"text":"那薪資理論上是要增加的可是是沒有的所以各級企業面臨嚴重的勞動力短缺生產力當然有限那低薪我講的是實質所得導致少子化的問題日趨嚴重所以年輕人口的減少導致企業招聘困難特別是在勞動密集型的產業形成企業競爭力的下降所以產業與國力就是陷入惡性循環"},{"start":215.68,"end":231.836,"text":"所以在整個尤其各部會講的時候呢你們都不講生育這件事情了你們都不講你們只講留才攬才花了很大的以及高齡人口那這個如何生育如何支持生育這件事情是沒講的"},{"start":232.557,"end":249.855,"text":"好那少子化辦公室呢在行政院您說在行政院下我認為他也孤掌難鳴從衛福部的少子化到你現在行政院的少子化辦公室那個卓院長呢在這個去在這個國在這個院會當中他也直接講少子案是國安議題啊"},{"start":251.639,"end":274.648,"text":"國安議題啊所以你們在行政院下的這樣開會的頻率跟主責單位那政委不在我們立法院報告的啊不接受民意的那個啊的提點的啊那他怎麼會是個國安議題呢你們把國安把你們是末世少子漢是國安議題你把少子漢這樣國安議題是把國安議題當作塑膠"},{"start":275.928,"end":291.941,"text":"所以少子化的議題那我請問你國發會跟陳時中是什麼關係?國發會這個單位跟少子化辦公室的召集人陳時中政委是什麼關係?你們做什麼事?我們是在他的整個規劃方案裡面我們負責國外的攬才"},{"start":295.584,"end":304.439,"text":"國外的攬才 國外的攬才這件事情所以你看阿今天召委很用心阿希望對於少子化這樣國安題提出來結果請了國發會做主責你只負責攬才"},{"start":309.369,"end":331.537,"text":"所以那到底我們要對整個行政院國安體我們怎麼質詢呢?我跟委員報告是這樣我上來之後其實我們也主動的做了這個人才競爭力的白皮書那我們也把各部位把人才需要全部整合我先不講競爭力我先要增加人數對人數我們現在就是跟勞動部也一起合作所以你就留才攬才嗎?不只不只我們現在也在所以你講生育是嗎?"},{"start":335.104,"end":339.368,"text":"民眾無感的政策導致問題擴大。第一個少子化政策偏重於幼兒的照護跟關懷第二個缺乏勞動政策支持與租稅優惠"},{"start":351.599,"end":365.531,"text":"第三、小孩不會因為照顧條件變好就自己蹦出來所以本席認為你所有的政策如果這是政委的政委在主導本席認為在婚配年輕化以及父母生育的誘因一定要提高這兩個這兩個才是正解"},{"start":368.333,"end":397.105,"text":"這兩個你沒下去我們現在都是30歲以後32歲以後女性的生育的黃金其實有極限的所以我們婚配的年輕化如何去獎勵我們父母的生育的誘因怎麼提高這個是要加強的好我們就看新加坡既然你們講到新加坡我覺得你們也沒講到重點第一個這在本期的總諮詢也提過在6月18號新加坡我認為這幾個特色在生育的部分21到35歲單身女性忍動卵子"},{"start":397.785,"end":423.311,"text":"第二、生育環境母親的有薪假應該在延伸16週附近的有薪陪產假4週好再來所得稅的減免因為我們你們也提說要這個婦女職業婦女啊所以你的第一胎要減少母親的總收入的15%第二胎你要減少他的總收入減免他的免稅額總收入20%第三胎以後減免他25%甚至可以到60%"},{"start":426.232,"end":428.333,"text":"主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會"},{"start":449.039,"end":471.738,"text":"百分之七五的經濟我們就補下去啦所以你們沒有針對生育的部分去做誘因啊好我具體建議第一個院會正式你要既然您是國發會統籌各部會本席要求您在院會要正式提案行政院底下成立專責的少子化委員會辦公室提升到委員會至於這個委員會要不要比照你國發委員會編制內的大陸委員會也好"},{"start":474.72,"end":499.449,"text":"你要成為公共工程委員會委員或者你行政院以下等同性平委員至少幕僚機構召集人就是院長啊幕僚的主責可以是陳時中啊你至少有一個委員會正式的運作怎麼會是5月5、20之後到現在陳時中才開一次會10月1號才開一次會這哪是國安議題啊第二個盡快嚴厲少子化白皮書"},{"start":500.95,"end":526.285,"text":"好,這白皮書要針對幾點?針對孕婦所需心理的諮商、生理的理療、產前的準備價甚至生育所得稅的減免鼓勵生育啊第二個,比照新加坡評估婦女生育所得稅的減免優惠第三,青年購屋如果提高青年早婚的意願青年住宅結合少子化的政策一、生育子女數給不同的優惠完全不需要抽籤"},{"start":527.225,"end":547.195,"text":"只要你願意生你青年也早一點結婚我們不需要抽籤讓青年能夠安穩定居第四個用國家的力量宣揚家庭的價值不分性向不分性別宣揚家庭的價值結合少子化的政策推動家庭的這個家庭日不是節日那這個主委你怎麼看呢?簡單回應"},{"start":549.261,"end":554.694,"text":"委員的建議我會找我會直接找院長報告我會給你一個答覆"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":101,"blocks":[["林委員岱樺：（9時31分）有請劉主委。"],["主席：請國發會劉主委。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：林委員早。"],["林委員岱樺：主委，本席認為涉及11個政府部門所提出的少子化政策就是兩個字：無感！導致少子化狀況日趨嚴重，而且你們從不提本國在全世界少子化的排名。我們現在倒數第二名，跟倒數第一名的韓國只差0.01%。","在各部會當中誰講得最好？誰爬梳得最清楚？人事行政總處。人事行政總處最後一段提到：「少子化成因交織複雜，涉及價值觀、經濟壓力、如何兼顧育兒及就業育兒等多元面向，其關鍵在於」，這句話是重點了，「其關鍵在於所提對策能否切合並有效改善，尚非單一專責主管部會可以處理」。其他各部會都只強調一點，這不是單一部會所可以處理的，所以我就做我的，至於成效如何我不管。所以現在的少子化政策叫什麼？既沒有契合問題，也沒有改善問題。主委，先回答本席三個問題：第一個，衛福部在106年成立少子化辦公室，目前少子化辦公室有沒有在運作？第二個，行政院下有沒有少子化辦公室？第三個，520之後少子化對策開了幾次會？請回答。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：跟委員報告，少子化辦公室已經移到行政院，目前有在運作，我們在公布人口報告時總共開了3次會議。"],["林委員岱樺：520之後嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：光報告公告前……"],["林委員岱樺：我要的是提升到行政院層次，在520之後。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：520之後針對這個報告我參與過3次，但520之前的我沒有參與到。"],["林委員岱樺：520之後本席所掌握的是……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：12次。"],["林委員岱樺：您再爬梳一下，以本席所掌握的，520之後，陳時中就只在10月1日開過一次會。所以現在行政院下有實質的少子化辦公室嗎？召集人叫做政委嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：目前是。"],["林委員岱樺：好，所以有少子化辦公室。本席認為少子化嚴重的原因是低薪所導致的。10月17日勞動部何部長說月薪3萬1,000元以下的屬於低薪，這將影響到120萬的勞動力。既然勞動力逐漸下降，勞動力供給減少，理論上薪資是要增加的，可是沒有，以致各級企業面臨嚴重的勞動力短缺，生產力當然有限。低薪──我講的是實質所得，導致少子化問題日趨嚴重，而年輕人口的減少，導致企業招聘困難，特別是在勞動密集型的產業，形成企業競爭力下降，使得產業與國力陷入惡性循環。現在各部會不講生育這件事情了，你們都不講了，你們只講留才、攬才以及高齡人口，還花了很大的篇幅，但如何生育及如何支持生育這件事情是沒講的。","現在少子化辦公室在行政院下，我認為孤掌難鳴，即使是從衛福部下的少子化辦公室，到現在行政院的少子化辦公室。卓院長在院會中直接講，少子化是國安議題，但行政院下的辦公室是這樣的開會頻率，而主責政委又不到立法院報告，不接受民意提點，請問他怎麼會認為是國安議題呢？你們漠視少子化是國安議題，把國安議題當作塑膠。就少子化議題我請問你，國發會跟陳時中是什麼關係？國發會這個單位跟少子化辦公室的召集人陳時中政委是什麼關係？你們做什麼事？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：在他整個規劃方案裡，我們負責國外的攬才。"],["林委員岱樺：國外的攬才？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對……"],["林委員岱樺：好，就國外攬才這件事？所以今天召委很用心，提出少子化這個國安議題，也請國發會做主責，結果你只負責攬才？對於這整個行政院國安議題，我們怎麼質詢呢？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：跟委員報告，是這樣的，我上來之後，我們主動做了人才競爭力白皮書，我們也整合各部會所需要的人才……"],["林委員岱樺：我先不講競爭力，現在要先增加人數。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，人數上我們現在就是跟勞動部一起合作……"],["林委員岱樺：所以你就留才、攬才嘛！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：不只、不只，我們現在也……"],["林委員岱樺：所以你要講生育，是嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：生育的部分……我們的確沒有。"],["林委員岱樺：是，所以各部會都沒在講生育，而民眾對政策無感，導致問題擴大。第一個，少子化政策偏重於幼兒的照護跟關懷；第二個，缺乏勞動政策支持與租稅優惠；第三個，小孩不會因為照護條件變好就自己蹦出來。所以本席認為所有的政策，如果這是政委在主導，本席認為婚配年輕化以及父母生育的誘因一定要提高，這兩個才是正解！這兩個沒下去……現在都是30歲以後、32歲以後，但女性的生育黃金期是有極限的，所以如何獎勵婚配年輕化？父母生育的誘因怎麼提高？這個是要加強的。","我們來看新加坡，雖然你們有講到新加坡，但我覺得你們沒講到重點。第一個，本席在6月18日總質詢時提過，我認為新加坡在生育部分有這幾個特色：21至35歲的單身女性冷凍卵子；改善生育環境（母親有薪產假16週，父親有薪陪產假4週）；所得稅減免額（第一胎減母親總收入的15%；第二胎減20%；第三胎（含以後）則為25%，最高可達60%），這樣才可能有出生率，因為現在臺灣女性受教水準提高，所以勞動力是很高的。因此怎麼補助他？其實減免稅賦是最有效的，否則再怎麼補都沒有用。再來，40歲以下女性於指定公立醫院人工受孕可得75%的津貼，人工受孕是很貴的，75%的津貼就補下去了，可見你們沒有針對生育的部分去做好誘因。","我具體建議：第一個，既然由國發會來統籌各部會，那麼本席要求您在院會中要正式提案，在行政院底下成立專責的少子化委員會，從辦公室提升到委員會。至於這個委員會要不要比照國發會委員會屬編制內的，或像大陸委員會也好，像公共工程委員會也好，或行政院底下等同性平委員會都好，至少是幕僚機構，召集人就是院長！幕僚的主責可以是陳時中啊，至少有一個委員會正式運作，怎麼會是520之後到現在陳時中才開一次會，10月1號才開一次會，這哪是國安議題啊！","第二個，儘快研擬少子化白皮書，這個白皮書要針對幾點：第一，針對孕婦所需的心理諮商、生理理療、產前準備假，甚至生育所得稅的減免，鼓勵生育。第二，比照新加坡，評估婦女生育所得稅的減免優惠。第三，協助青年購屋，提高青年早婚的意願，青年住宅結合少子化政策，依生育子女數給予不同的優惠，完全不需要抽籤，只要你願意生，青年早一點結婚，不需要抽籤，讓青年能夠安穩定居。第四，用國家的力量宣揚家庭的價值，不分性向、不分性別，宣揚家庭的價值，結合少子化政策推動家庭日，這個家庭日不是節日。主委，你怎麼看呢？請簡單回應。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對於委員的建議，我會直接找院長報告，我會給你一個答復。"],["林委員岱樺：好，非常好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林岱樺委員，主委請回座。","下一位質詢請邱議瑩委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":224,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-8","speakers":["邱志偉","林岱樺","邱議瑩","呂玉玲","張啓楷","張嘉郡","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鄭正鈐","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯","陳超明","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","陳菁徽","賴惠員","羅美玲","陳培瑜","蔡易餘","林月琴","翁曉玲","張雅琳","吳春城"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1138901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138901_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、衛生福利部首長、教育部首長、勞動部首長就「我國少子女\n化現況及對策計畫成效，暨我國與亞鄰國家之留才攬才政策競爭力比較」進行報告，並備質詢；\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、行政院人事行政總處首長就「我國少子女化對策主管單位與\n主要國家做法之比較，暨我國參採改制之可行性」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138901_00003"}}}