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{\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 378.844, \"end\": 378.924, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 378.924, \"end\": 379.024, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"根\", \"start\": 379.024, \"end\": 380.124, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 380.124, \"end\": 380.604, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 380.604, \"end\": 380.884, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 380.884, \"end\": 380.984, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 380.984, \"end\": 381.064, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 381.064, \"end\": 381.204, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 381.204, \"end\": 381.325, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 381.325, \"end\": 381.665, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 381.665, \"end\": 381.785, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"的\", 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397.342, \"end\": 397.362, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 397.362, \"end\": 397.602, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"涉\", \"start\": 397.602, \"end\": 397.702, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"嫌\", \"start\": 397.702, \"end\": 397.923, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 397.923, \"end\": 397.943, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 397.943, \"end\": 398.023, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 398.023, \"end\": 398.043, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 398.043, \"end\": 398.063, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"串\", \"start\": 398.063, \"end\": 398.143, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 398.143, \"end\": 398.163, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"滅\"}, {\"word\": \"證\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 398.163, \"end\": 398.323, \"score\": 0.7}, {\"word\": \"申\", \"start\": 398.323, \"end\": 398.343, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"羈\"}, {\"word\": \"押\", \"start\": 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\"這個就是一個沒有被拘捕的一個調查沒有被拘捕的情況我自首還沒有被拘捕我這自首就表示我我要被調查嗎我承認犯罪嗎我自自行到場也是配合調查嗎我希望你調查我自行到場嗎好那我自願同行是不是也是配合你的調查這個就是一個配合調查配合調查好那我們看看要拘捕好具體逮捕限制人身的方式來第一具體要拘票對不對有一二三四五有五種的條法條呢有講到這個狀況\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 472.302, \"end\": 472.442, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 472.442, \"end\": 472.582, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 472.582, \"end\": 472.782, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 472.782, \"end\": 472.922, \"score\": 0.719}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 472.922, \"end\": 473.122, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 473.122, \"end\": 473.282, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"拘\", \"start\": 473.282, \"end\": 473.502, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"捕\", \"start\": 473.502, \"end\": 473.642, \"score\": 0.648}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 473.642, \"end\": 473.723, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 473.723, \"end\": 474.143, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": 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\"的\", \"start\": 578.653, \"end\": 578.993, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 578.993, \"end\": 579.153, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 579.153, \"end\": 579.273, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 579.273, \"end\": 579.353, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"觸\"}, {\"word\": \"犯\", \"start\": 579.353, \"end\": 579.373, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 580.094, \"end\": 608.826, \"text\": \"好所以說非經合法逮捕本來就不能限制人身自由對不對所以這個我們沒有爭議是不是這樣子那我們討論的是什麼我們討論的是通訊的問題來往下看所以道場的種類剛剛講的傳喚是偵查已發動嘛但是呢被告呢他是這樣被動或者是間接強制道場是不是這樣子傳喚的時候偵查已經發動了是不是這樣第二個至少是偵查沒有發動但是呢被告主動道場是不是這樣子主動表達嘛\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 580.094, \"end\": 580.394, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 580.394, \"end\": 580.534, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 580.534, \"end\": 581.054, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 581.054, \"end\": 581.575, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 608.346, \"end\": 608.626, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 608.626, \"end\": 608.806, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"達\"}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 608.806, \"end\": 608.826, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 611.487, \"end\": 631.298, \"text\": \"那自行到場他是偵查已經發動是被告他主動來是不是這樣子那如果是自願同行你認為是不是偵查已發動他只是被動的被硬要求同意配合調查是不是這樣這樣的一個屬性列舉有沒有清楚很清楚那所以我主張往下\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 611.487, \"end\": 611.747, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 611.747, \"end\": 612.047, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 612.047, \"end\": 612.928, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 612.928, \"end\": 613.408, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 613.408, \"end\": 613.548, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 613.548, \"end\": 613.928, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"偵\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 613.928, \"end\": 614.048, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"已\", 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\"楚\", \"start\": 628.576, \"end\": 629.757, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 629.757, \"end\": 629.917, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 629.917, \"end\": 630.057, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 630.057, \"end\": 630.357, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 630.357, \"end\": 630.497, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 630.497, \"end\": 630.577, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 630.577, \"end\": 630.617, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 630.617, \"end\": 630.737, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 630.737, \"end\": 631.118, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"往\", \"start\": 631.118, \"end\": 631.278, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 631.278, \"end\": 631.298, \"score\": 0.989}]}, {\"start\": 632.54, \"end\": 659.451, \"text\": \"所以關於這次我們要修法的內容除我本席所主張的一十五之十非經合法逮捕或拘提檢察官司法警察或司法警察不得拘束或限制被告或犯罪嫌疑人的人身自由這個是毫無疑問的那你覺得通訊自由有同時在這個過程當中要特別表明嗎這個通訊自由這個不用特別去做一個表明那至於說\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 632.54, \"end\": 632.66, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 632.66, \"end\": 633.12, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 633.12, \"end\": 633.4, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 633.4, \"end\": 633.52, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 633.52, \"end\": 633.7, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 633.7, \"end\": 633.801, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 633.801, \"end\": 633.921, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 633.921, \"end\": 634.021, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 634.021, \"end\": 634.241, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"容\", \"start\": 634.241, \"end\": 634.501, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 634.501, \"end\": 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\"在後段第二項對於自行到場或自願同行在我看來他都是含設在配合調查到場少兩個到場兩個字齁他都是配合調查到場的類型你同不同意自行到場或自願同行他都是顯現被告配合調查到場的類型你覺得可以這樣子表達嗎用配合調查到場來含設前面兩個自行到場或自願同行\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 660.188, \"end\": 660.548, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 660.548, \"end\": 660.788, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"段\", \"start\": 660.788, \"end\": 662.069, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 662.069, \"end\": 662.169, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 662.169, \"end\": 662.749, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 662.749, \"end\": 663.35, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 663.35, \"end\": 663.65, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 663.65, \"end\": 663.91, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 663.91, \"end\": 664.35, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 664.35, \"end\": 664.53, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 664.53, \"end\": 664.89, \"score\": 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00:00:39,566\n主席、在場委員先進、列席的政府監事長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生。有請法務部政部長以及最高檢察署的新總長。新總長。部長好。總長好。部長、總長。請教一下。依我們憲法的規定,人民、國民有沒有通訊的自由?\n\n2\n00:00:42,469 --> 00:00:59,946\n總統,我們的人民有沒有通訊的自由?有,可以對著麥公說。好,那軍人有沒有通訊的自由?部長有沒有?軍人有沒有通訊的自由?就要看地點。看地點。總統,你認為呢?軍人有沒有通訊的自由?在法定的規定範圍是有的。\n\n3\n00:01:03,970 --> 00:01:15,176\n在法律規定的範圍內?是,在法律規定的範圍內有。這個很精準。講輕鬆一點吧。我的上一代當兵的人在金門馬祖的離島,他們的通訊自由就是怎樣?寫信。\n\n4\n00:01:17,389 --> 00:01:41,168\n甚至不一定有秘密通訊,隨便還被人家拆開來看當然基本上是有秘密通訊的自由是血性我當兵的時候我在兵營的通訊自由是輪到時間可以有個時間排隊去投幣室打電話問候家人找女朋友我兒子現在在當兵他的通訊自由是一段時間會發給他手機他可以上網去看LINE\n\n5\n00:01:43,130 --> 00:02:02,796\n總統你認為通訊自由是不是隨著通訊工具的科技變化在地點在情境下有所不同但是都是通訊自由這個是對總統也同意嘛同意那請問一下學生有沒有通訊自由學生學生有通訊的自由那學生會在課堂上開直播\n\n6\n00:02:04,202 --> 00:02:32,305\n這個是有上課的一個秩序的問題這是上課秩序問題總統你也同意嘛學生有些規定啊高中以下的學校他有規定你上課不能帶手機但是大學好像教授不能限制學生帶手機在課堂上使用但是呢如果學生拿著手機在跟教授開直播教授在講憲法他在底下跟教授吐然後開直播你覺得如果說教授制止學生這樣做有沒有侵犯了學生的通訊自由\n\n7\n00:02:34,557 --> 00:02:46,397\n這是一個管理的問題這是管理的問題總統你的看法呢這個喔這樣講喔對於在這個中小學這個階段跟大學是不一樣因為中小學基本上喔\n\n8\n00:02:46,954 --> 00:02:50,817\n對所以高中以下學校可以規定學生上課不能帶手機但是大學的時候教授只有在你開直播的時候說同學請把手機收起來\n\n9\n00:03:08,789 --> 00:03:37,648\n好來我們看我們之前看到的民眾黨所提的二二八之一他的談通訊自由跟人自由很快的說原來的二二八是傳喚被告經傳喚自首或自行到場在有必要的羈押的時候可以居以逮捕但是民眾黨提案的二二八之一他說非經合法逮捕或拘停不得去拘束或限制被告的什麼人身自由跟通訊自由他把人身自由跟通訊自由分別的從羈押逮捕當中抓出來寫\n\n10\n00:03:38,829 --> 00:03:55,254\n那他說如果是自行的配合調查的應該事前告知這個我想沒有問題但是呢如果還沒有在經合法逮捕之前呢他的人身自由跟通訊自由是不受限制的那人身自由甚至他可以自由離去那請問部長你認同這樣的一個修法條文嗎這個我們剛才有講說這個健勤保留健勤保留那個總長呢\n\n11\n00:04:08,228 --> 00:04:36,056\n在我們第一線司法機關的話我們的看法是這個也是保留好來我們看一下案例討論檢察官懷疑某假涉及詐騙集團激發傳票叫某假下週五來遞檢說明那某假就找了律師某以擔任辯護人如期到案在詢問中檢察官發現假涉嫌重大甚至連辯護人以也知情甚至兩個人試圖往上去聯絡集團問題一檢察官可以限定假以的通訊自由嗎部長可以嗎\n\n12\n00:04:38,227 --> 00:05:06,144\n在偵查中的詢問訊問的過程中那如果說可以賦予他隨時通訊的一個自由就是你認為他不可以嗎?是不是?我認為是不可以來總長那你認為那這種情況之下假的人身自由有沒有被限制?在剛剛部長所說的不准他用手機那這個時候假的人身自由有沒有被限制?在這個案例上他的人身自由在詢問當中你不可以用手機啊\n\n13\n00:05:08,222 --> 00:05:34,388\n閱讯中還沒逮捕嘛對不對他的人身有什麼限制他這個影響到我們檢察官的偵辦影響到這個對我是說偵辦當中不准律師或被告使用手機有沒有限制到同時限制到人身自由這個限制是合法的沒有限制到人身自由沒有好來我們看案例來實際的案例有個通靈律師這報上寫的他台南律師一個收押兩個交保因為呢他在陪同被告\n\n14\n00:05:35,929 --> 00:05:45,455\n而偵訊的時候呢他洩漏了偵查方向然後呢往前面的共犯的去偵查那檢察官詢問的時候呢發現辯護人有這種情況遇到辯護人有這種情況的時候部長怎麼辦?下一頁辯護人如果在他進行越眷權在場權的時候呢他是不是有違反二四五條之四第四項偵查不公開有沒有\n\n15\n00:05:59,537 --> 00:06:22,125\n有這個規定嘛對不對好那如果這樣的話請問總長那是不是可以根據228第4項對於這個被告呢我們就予以當庭逮捕還是對於如果被告這樣做是不是可以當庭逮捕辯護人是有月券跟在場陪同嘛他如果有洩漏你可以根據245第4項嘛那如果被告這樣做的話怎麼處理\n\n16\n00:06:25,006 --> 00:06:25,026\n這樣子齁（\n\n17\n00:06:37,202 --> 00:06:38,723\n議員鍾佳濱在詢問當中檢方認為他涉嫌重大可能串供滅證就申請羈押對不對是不是這樣子\n\n18\n00:06:56,693 --> 00:07:21,626\n那如果檢察官發現辯護人有這個問題也可以把他逮捕嘛對不對?那有洩露偵查方也可以逮捕辯護人嘛可不可以?這個是一個泄密的問題對泄密的問題嘛所以防止詐團律師泄密那難道就不用防止被告串證嗎?你可以要防止辯護人泄密難道你可以不用理會被告串證嗎?所以檢察律師不可以把徵訊陪同徵訊聽到的內容對外透露那被告可不可以?\n\n19\n00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:49,856\n這個被告也是不行當然被告也是不行嘛往下看好來所以說我們看到目前二十八字印呢有一個特別的本來二十八本文他寫傳喚自首跟自行到場在二十八字印呢他就把自行到場後面再增加一個自願同行配合調查好那看清楚了我後面會問請你記起來往下看請問自願到場就是配合調查嗎自願到場自首算不算配合調查\n\n20\n00:07:52,302 --> 00:08:20,210\n這個就是一個沒有被拘捕的一個調查沒有被拘捕的情況我自首還沒有被拘捕我這自首就表示我我要被調查嗎我承認犯罪嗎我自自行到場也是配合調查嗎我希望你調查我自行到場嗎好那我自願同行是不是也是配合你的調查這個就是一個配合調查配合調查好那我們看看要拘捕好具體逮捕限制人身的方式來第一具體要拘票對不對有一二三四五有五種的條法條呢有講到這個狀況\n\n21\n00:08:22,071 --> 00:08:49,259\n那逮捕呢不需要拘票有這三種狀況那請問一下刑事程序當中要限制人身自由的原則是不是要遇到法定的程序就是要具體跟逮捕我看到總長一直點頭點很用力沒錯往下看好所以那麼怎麼樣開啟詢問被告的程序一種是說如果被告已經具體逮捕了那就詢問嘛詢問後只有五個方式嘛釋放拘保責付限度住居生押嘛那如果是傳喚或自願到場的時候你在進行詢問之後\n\n22\n00:08:50,885 --> 00:09:16,920\n你要不就是根據二二八第四項當庭逮捕那如果你已經逮捕了就不用那就交給法院裁定羈押那請問如果某假是受到傳喚至到道場他的人身自由那時候是不是還沒有受到限制沒有沒有所以你後來詢問之後你就這五種方式那必要的時候根據第四項當庭逮捕是不是這樣是好那我都沒有講人名吶吼大家都知道去對照一下人事實例物在講誰吶吼好那我們看一看所以呢\n\n23\n00:09:18,255 --> 00:09:39,373\n違法拘提逮捕的後續效果如果沒有進行前置的程序沒有告知那違反拘提的前置程序可不可以拘押這個法院就是有可能嘛違法逮捕不可以拘押嘛那有沒有可能觸犯妨害自由或濫訴追溯的濫權追溯的這個罪名如果違法逮捕這個如果說有違法逮捕的話這有可能會觸犯\n\n24\n00:09:40,094 --> 00:10:08,826\n好所以說非經合法逮捕本來就不能限制人身自由對不對所以這個我們沒有爭議是不是這樣子那我們討論的是什麼我們討論的是通訊的問題來往下看所以道場的種類剛剛講的傳喚是偵查已發動嘛但是呢被告呢他是這樣被動或者是間接強制道場是不是這樣子傳喚的時候偵查已經發動了是不是這樣第二個至少是偵查沒有發動但是呢被告主動道場是不是這樣子主動表達嘛\n\n25\n00:10:11,487 --> 00:10:31,298\n那自行到場他是偵查已經發動是被告他主動來是不是這樣子那如果是自願同行你認為是不是偵查已發動他只是被動的被硬要求同意配合調查是不是這樣這樣的一個屬性列舉有沒有清楚很清楚那所以我主張往下\n\n26\n00:10:32,540 --> 00:10:59,451\n所以關於這次我們要修法的內容除我本席所主張的一十五之十非經合法逮捕或拘提檢察官司法警察或司法警察不得拘束或限制被告或犯罪嫌疑人的人身自由這個是毫無疑問的那你覺得通訊自由有同時在這個過程當中要特別表明嗎這個通訊自由這個不用特別去做一個表明那至於說\n\n27\n00:11:00,188 --> 00:11:25,681\n在後段第二項對於自行到場或自願同行在我看來他都是含設在配合調查到場少兩個到場兩個字齁他都是配合調查到場的類型你同不同意自行到場或自願同行他都是顯現被告配合調查到場的類型你覺得可以這樣子表達嗎用配合調查到場來含設前面兩個自行到場或自願同行\n\n28\n00:11:26,651 --> 00:11:38,462\n應該是一致的是一致的好那在這種情況之下如果被告他是配合調查到場的情況之下您覺得他的通訊自由有可以完全受到保障不用限制嗎\n\n29\n00:11:40,434 --> 00:11:44,957\n這個通訊自由事實上在不管是傳喚或自行盜藏或什麼盜藏或盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜\n\n30\n00:12:06,634 --> 00:12:29,384\n這個是有偵查不公開的一個法律偵查事項。他是被告啊。被告有偵查不公開的憲制。這個是因為整個一個在在一個法庭的一個偵查庭裡面的一個詢問。對於被告不是偵查不公開啊。對我這個我知道。但是這個是對整個因為章友詢問不一定只有被告嘛。是的。而且偵查內容不能夠外洩出去嘛。偵查內容不得外洩。我被告雖然沒有偵查不公開的義務。\n\n31\n00:12:30,064 --> 00:12:30,084\n（二）\n\n32\n00:12:46,767 --> 00:13:15,242\n所以在這裡面如果我們寫上了通訊自由就像我剛問你國民有沒有通訊自由軍人有沒有通訊自由學生有沒有通訊自由學生可不可以在課堂上拿著手機對老師上課開直播大家都認為不可以詐團的律師去聯絡詐團的其他共犯就甚至會被辯護人員逮捕了更何況被告不能主張他只是傳喚還沒被監禁逮捕的時候他就擁有通訊自由可以任意的洩露偵查中的一個秘密更何況他是配合調查到場的\n\n33\n00:13:18,945 --> 00:13:26,231\n總統你認為剛剛的論述我看到你們最具體的寫在你們報告裡面你們是反對的是不是這樣子你們是不同意這個通訊自由的請說最後幾秒鐘\n\n34\n00:13:30,373 --> 00:13:52,559\n報告因為這個228條之一提出來這個裡面他基本上他這個範圍是比較廣泛的可是剛剛委員他有限縮這個範圍這個在討論上當然結果是不太一樣的那結果你們總長你們的文字意見你們是同意哪一種你們是認同哪一種當然剛剛依照委員那個所含涉這個議題的話\n\n35\n00:13:55,856 --> 00:14:04,793\n如果這樣講起來那個通訊自由大概會對偵查影響比較大。而人身自由保障這個我們司法機關是沒有意義的。很好!謝謝!謝謝總長!謝謝部長!\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n14301\t39566\t主席、在場委員先進、列席的政府監事長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生。有請法務部政部長以及最高檢察署的新總長。新總長。部長好。總長好。部長、總長。請教一下。依我們憲法的規定,人民、國民有沒有通訊的自由?\n42469\t59946\t總統,我們的人民有沒有通訊的自由?有,可以對著麥公說。好,那軍人有沒有通訊的自由?部長有沒有?軍人有沒有通訊的自由?就要看地點。看地點。總統,你認為呢?軍人有沒有通訊的自由?在法定的規定範圍是有的。\n63970\t75176\t在法律規定的範圍內?是,在法律規定的範圍內有。這個很精準。講輕鬆一點吧。我的上一代當兵的人在金門馬祖的離島,他們的通訊自由就是怎樣?寫信。\n77389\t101168\t甚至不一定有秘密通訊,隨便還被人家拆開來看當然基本上是有秘密通訊的自由是血性我當兵的時候我在兵營的通訊自由是輪到時間可以有個時間排隊去投幣室打電話問候家人找女朋友我兒子現在在當兵他的通訊自由是一段時間會發給他手機他可以上網去看LINE\n103130\t122796\t總統你認為通訊自由是不是隨著通訊工具的科技變化在地點在情境下有所不同但是都是通訊自由這個是對總統也同意嘛同意那請問一下學生有沒有通訊自由學生學生有通訊的自由那學生會在課堂上開直播\n124202\t152305\t這個是有上課的一個秩序的問題這是上課秩序問題總統你也同意嘛學生有些規定啊高中以下的學校他有規定你上課不能帶手機但是大學好像教授不能限制學生帶手機在課堂上使用但是呢如果學生拿著手機在跟教授開直播教授在講憲法他在底下跟教授吐然後開直播你覺得如果說教授制止學生這樣做有沒有侵犯了學生的通訊自由\n154557\t166397\t這是一個管理的問題這是管理的問題 總統你的看法呢這個喔 這樣講喔對於在這個中小學這個階段跟大學是不一樣因為中小學基本上喔\n166954\t170817\t對 所以高中以下學校可以規定學生上課不能帶手機但是大學的時候教授只有在你開直播的時候說同學請把手機收起來\n188789\t217648\t好來我們看我們之前看到的民眾黨所提的二二八之一他的談通訊自由跟人自由很快的說原來的二二八是傳喚被告經傳喚自首或自行到場在有必要的羈押的時候可以居以逮捕但是民眾黨提案的二二八之一他說非經合法逮捕或拘停不得去拘束或限制被告的什麼人身自由跟通訊自由他把人身自由跟通訊自由分別的從羈押逮捕當中抓出來寫\n218829\t235254\t那他說如果是自行的配合調查的應該事前告知這個我想沒有問題但是呢如果還沒有在經合法逮捕之前呢他的人身自由跟通訊自由是不受限制的那人身自由甚至他可以自由離去那請問部長你認同這樣的一個修法條文嗎這個我們剛才有講說這個健勤保留健勤保留那個總長呢\n248228\t276056\t在我們第一線司法機關的話我們的看法是這個也是保留好來我們看一下案例討論檢察官懷疑某假涉及詐騙集團激發傳票叫某假下週五來遞檢說明那某假就找了律師某以擔任辯護人如期到案在詢問中檢察官發現假涉嫌重大甚至連辯護人以也知情甚至兩個人試圖往上去聯絡集團問題一檢察官可以限定假以的通訊自由嗎部長可以嗎\n278227\t306144\t在偵查中的詢問訊問的過程中那如果說可以賦予他隨時通訊的一個自由就是你認為他不可以嗎?是不是?我認為是不可以來總長那你認為那這種情況之下假的人身自由有沒有被限制?在剛剛部長所說的不准他用手機那這個時候假的人身自由有沒有被限制?在這個案例上他的人身自由在詢問當中你不可以用手機啊\n308222\t334388\t閱讯中還沒逮捕嘛對不對他的人身有什麼限制他這個影響到我們檢察官的偵辦影響到這個對我是說偵辦當中不准律師或被告使用手機有沒有限制到同時限制到人身自由這個限制是合法的沒有限制到人身自由沒有好來我們看案例來實際的案例有個通靈律師這報上寫的他台南律師一個收押兩個交保因為呢他在陪同被告\n335929\t345455\t而偵訊的時候呢他洩漏了偵查方向然後呢往前面的共犯的去偵查那檢察官詢問的時候呢發現辯護人有這種情況遇到辯護人有這種情況的時候部長怎麼辦?下一頁辯護人如果在他進行越眷權在場權的時候呢他是不是有違反二四五條之四第四項偵查不公開有沒有\n359537\t382125\t有這個規定嘛對不對好那如果這樣的話請問總長那是不是可以根據228第4項對於這個被告呢我們就予以當庭逮捕還是對於如果被告這樣做是不是可以當庭逮捕辯護人是有月券跟在場陪同嘛他如果有洩漏你可以根據245第4項嘛那如果被告這樣做的話怎麼處理\n385006\t385026\t這樣子齁（\n397202\t398723\t議員鍾佳濱在詢問當中檢方認為他涉嫌重大可能串供滅證就申請羈押對不對是不是這樣子\n416693\t441626\t那如果檢察官發現辯護人有這個問題也可以把他逮捕嘛對不對?那有洩露偵查方也可以逮捕辯護人嘛可不可以?這個是一個泄密的問題對泄密的問題嘛所以防止詐團律師泄密那難道就不用防止被告串證嗎?你可以要防止辯護人泄密難道你可以不用理會被告串證嗎?所以檢察律師不可以把徵訊陪同徵訊聽到的內容對外透露那被告可不可以?\n443360\t469856\t這個被告也是不行當然被告也是不行嘛往下看好來所以說我們看到目前二十八字印呢有一個特別的本來二十八本文他寫傳喚自首跟自行到場在二十八字印呢他就把自行到場後面再增加一個自願同行配合調查好那看清楚了我後面會問請你記起來往下看請問自願到場就是配合調查嗎自願到場自首算不算配合調查\n472302\t500210\t這個就是一個沒有被拘捕的一個調查沒有被拘捕的情況我自首還沒有被拘捕我這自首就表示我我要被調查嗎我承認犯罪嗎我自自行到場也是配合調查嗎我希望你調查我自行到場嗎好那我自願同行是不是也是配合你的調查這個就是一個配合調查配合調查好那我們看看要拘捕好具體逮捕限制人身的方式來第一具體要拘票對不對有一二三四五有五種的條法條呢有講到這個狀況\n502071\t529259\t那逮捕呢不需要拘票有這三種狀況那請問一下刑事程序當中要限制人身自由的原則是不是要遇到法定的程序就是要具體跟逮捕我看到總長一直點頭點很用力沒錯往下看好所以那麼怎麼樣開啟詢問被告的程序一種是說如果被告已經具體逮捕了那就詢問嘛詢問後只有五個方式嘛釋放拘保責付限度住居生押嘛那如果是傳喚或自願到場的時候你在進行詢問之後\n530885\t556920\t你要不就是根據二二八第四項當庭逮捕那如果你已經逮捕了就不用那就交給法院裁定羈押那請問如果某假是受到傳喚至到道場他的人身自由那時候是不是還沒有受到限制沒有沒有所以你後來詢問之後你就這五種方式那必要的時候根據第四項當庭逮捕是不是這樣是好那我都沒有講人名吶吼大家都知道去對照一下人事實例物在講誰吶吼好那我們看一看所以呢\n558255\t579373\t違法拘提逮捕的後續效果如果沒有進行前置的程序沒有告知那違反拘提的前置程序可不可以拘押這個法院就是有可能嘛違法逮捕不可以拘押嘛那有沒有可能觸犯妨害自由或濫訴追溯的濫權追溯的這個罪名如果違法逮捕這個如果說有違法逮捕的話這有可能會觸犯\n580094\t608826\t好所以說非經合法逮捕本來就不能限制人身自由對不對所以這個我們沒有爭議是不是這樣子那我們討論的是什麼我們討論的是通訊的問題來往下看所以道場的種類剛剛講的傳喚是偵查已發動嘛但是呢被告呢他是這樣被動或者是間接強制道場是不是這樣子傳喚的時候偵查已經發動了是不是這樣第二個至少是偵查沒有發動但是呢被告主動道場是不是這樣子主動表達嘛\n611487\t631298\t那自行到場他是偵查已經發動是被告他主動來是不是這樣子那如果是自願同行你認為是不是偵查已發動他只是被動的被硬要求同意配合調查是不是這樣這樣的一個屬性列舉有沒有清楚很清楚那所以我主張往下\n632540\t659451\t所以關於這次我們要修法的內容除我本席所主張的一十五之十非經合法逮捕或拘提檢察官司法警察或司法警察不得拘束或限制被告或犯罪嫌疑人的人身自由這個是毫無疑問的那你覺得通訊自由有同時在這個過程當中要特別表明嗎這個通訊自由這個不用特別去做一個表明那至於說\n660188\t685681\t在後段第二項對於自行到場或自願同行在我看來他都是含設在配合調查到場少兩個到場兩個字齁他都是配合調查到場的類型你同不同意自行到場或自願同行他都是顯現被告配合調查到場的類型你覺得可以這樣子表達嗎用配合調查到場來含設前面兩個自行到場或自願同行\n686651\t698462\t應該是一致的是一致的好那在這種情況之下如果被告他是配合調查到場的情況之下您覺得他的通訊自由有可以完全受到保障不用限制嗎\n700434\t704957\t這個通訊自由事實上在不管是傳喚或自行盜藏或什麼盜藏或盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜\n726634\t749384\t這個是有偵查不公開的一個法律偵查事項。他是被告啊。被告有偵查不公開的憲制。這個是因為整個一個在在一個法庭的一個偵查庭裡面的一個詢問。對於被告不是偵查不公開啊。對我這個我知道。但是這個是對整個因為章友詢問不一定只有被告嘛。是的。而且偵查內容不能夠外洩出去嘛。偵查內容不得外洩。我被告雖然沒有偵查不公開的義務。\n750064\t750084\t（二）\n766767\t795242\t所以在這裡面如果我們寫上了通訊自由就像我剛問你國民有沒有通訊自由軍人有沒有通訊自由學生有沒有通訊自由學生可不可以在課堂上拿著手機對老師上課開直播大家都認為不可以詐團的律師去聯絡詐團的其他共犯就甚至會被辯護人員逮捕了更何況被告不能主張他只是傳喚還沒被監禁逮捕的時候他就擁有通訊自由可以任意的洩露偵查中的一個秘密更何況他是配合調查到場的\n798945\t806231\t總統你認為剛剛的論述我看到你們最具體的寫在你們報告裡面你們是反對的是不是這樣子你們是不同意這個通訊自由的請說最後幾秒鐘\n810373\t832559\t報告因為這個228條之一提出來這個裡面他基本上他這個範圍是比較廣泛的可是剛剛委員他有限縮這個範圍這個在討論上當然結果是不太一樣的那結果你們總長你們的文字意見你們是同意哪一種你們是認同哪一種當然剛剛依照委員那個所含涉這個議題的話\n835856\t844793\t如果這樣講起來那個通訊自由大概會對偵查影響比較大。而人身自由保障這個我們司法機關是沒有意義的。很好!謝謝!謝謝總長!謝謝部長!\n","txt":"主席、在場委員先進、列席的政府監事長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生。有請法務部政部長以及最高檢察署的新總長。新總長。部長好。總長好。部長、總長。請教一下。依我們憲法的規定,人民、國民有沒有通訊的自由?\n總統,我們的人民有沒有通訊的自由?有,可以對著麥公說。好,那軍人有沒有通訊的自由?部長有沒有?軍人有沒有通訊的自由?就要看地點。看地點。總統,你認為呢?軍人有沒有通訊的自由?在法定的規定範圍是有的。\n在法律規定的範圍內?是,在法律規定的範圍內有。這個很精準。講輕鬆一點吧。我的上一代當兵的人在金門馬祖的離島,他們的通訊自由就是怎樣?寫信。\n甚至不一定有秘密通訊,隨便還被人家拆開來看當然基本上是有秘密通訊的自由是血性我當兵的時候我在兵營的通訊自由是輪到時間可以有個時間排隊去投幣室打電話問候家人找女朋友我兒子現在在當兵他的通訊自由是一段時間會發給他手機他可以上網去看LINE\n總統你認為通訊自由是不是隨著通訊工具的科技變化在地點在情境下有所不同但是都是通訊自由這個是對總統也同意嘛同意那請問一下學生有沒有通訊自由學生學生有通訊的自由那學生會在課堂上開直播\n這個是有上課的一個秩序的問題這是上課秩序問題總統你也同意嘛學生有些規定啊高中以下的學校他有規定你上課不能帶手機但是大學好像教授不能限制學生帶手機在課堂上使用但是呢如果學生拿著手機在跟教授開直播教授在講憲法他在底下跟教授吐然後開直播你覺得如果說教授制止學生這樣做有沒有侵犯了學生的通訊自由\n這是一個管理的問題這是管理的問題 總統你的看法呢這個喔 這樣講喔對於在這個中小學這個階段跟大學是不一樣因為中小學基本上喔\n對 所以高中以下學校可以規定學生上課不能帶手機但是大學的時候教授只有在你開直播的時候說同學請把手機收起來\n好來我們看我們之前看到的民眾黨所提的二二八之一他的談通訊自由跟人自由很快的說原來的二二八是傳喚被告經傳喚自首或自行到場在有必要的羈押的時候可以居以逮捕但是民眾黨提案的二二八之一他說非經合法逮捕或拘停不得去拘束或限制被告的什麼人身自由跟通訊自由他把人身自由跟通訊自由分別的從羈押逮捕當中抓出來寫\n那他說如果是自行的配合調查的應該事前告知這個我想沒有問題但是呢如果還沒有在經合法逮捕之前呢他的人身自由跟通訊自由是不受限制的那人身自由甚至他可以自由離去那請問部長你認同這樣的一個修法條文嗎這個我們剛才有講說這個健勤保留健勤保留那個總長呢\n在我們第一線司法機關的話我們的看法是這個也是保留好來我們看一下案例討論檢察官懷疑某假涉及詐騙集團激發傳票叫某假下週五來遞檢說明那某假就找了律師某以擔任辯護人如期到案在詢問中檢察官發現假涉嫌重大甚至連辯護人以也知情甚至兩個人試圖往上去聯絡集團問題一檢察官可以限定假以的通訊自由嗎部長可以嗎\n在偵查中的詢問訊問的過程中那如果說可以賦予他隨時通訊的一個自由就是你認為他不可以嗎?是不是?我認為是不可以來總長那你認為那這種情況之下假的人身自由有沒有被限制?在剛剛部長所說的不准他用手機那這個時候假的人身自由有沒有被限制?在這個案例上他的人身自由在詢問當中你不可以用手機啊\n閱讯中還沒逮捕嘛對不對他的人身有什麼限制他這個影響到我們檢察官的偵辦影響到這個對我是說偵辦當中不准律師或被告使用手機有沒有限制到同時限制到人身自由這個限制是合法的沒有限制到人身自由沒有好來我們看案例來實際的案例有個通靈律師這報上寫的他台南律師一個收押兩個交保因為呢他在陪同被告\n而偵訊的時候呢他洩漏了偵查方向然後呢往前面的共犯的去偵查那檢察官詢問的時候呢發現辯護人有這種情況遇到辯護人有這種情況的時候部長怎麼辦?下一頁辯護人如果在他進行越眷權在場權的時候呢他是不是有違反二四五條之四第四項偵查不公開有沒有\n有這個規定嘛對不對好那如果這樣的話請問總長那是不是可以根據228第4項對於這個被告呢我們就予以當庭逮捕還是對於如果被告這樣做是不是可以當庭逮捕辯護人是有月券跟在場陪同嘛他如果有洩漏你可以根據245第4項嘛那如果被告這樣做的話怎麼處理\n這樣子齁（\n議員鍾佳濱在詢問當中檢方認為他涉嫌重大可能串供滅證就申請羈押對不對是不是這樣子\n那如果檢察官發現辯護人有這個問題也可以把他逮捕嘛對不對?那有洩露偵查方也可以逮捕辯護人嘛可不可以?這個是一個泄密的問題對泄密的問題嘛所以防止詐團律師泄密那難道就不用防止被告串證嗎?你可以要防止辯護人泄密難道你可以不用理會被告串證嗎?所以檢察律師不可以把徵訊陪同徵訊聽到的內容對外透露那被告可不可以?\n這個被告也是不行當然被告也是不行嘛往下看好來所以說我們看到目前二十八字印呢有一個特別的本來二十八本文他寫傳喚自首跟自行到場在二十八字印呢他就把自行到場後面再增加一個自願同行配合調查好那看清楚了我後面會問請你記起來往下看請問自願到場就是配合調查嗎自願到場自首算不算配合調查\n這個就是一個沒有被拘捕的一個調查沒有被拘捕的情況我自首還沒有被拘捕我這自首就表示我我要被調查嗎我承認犯罪嗎我自自行到場也是配合調查嗎我希望你調查我自行到場嗎好那我自願同行是不是也是配合你的調查這個就是一個配合調查配合調查好那我們看看要拘捕好具體逮捕限制人身的方式來第一具體要拘票對不對有一二三四五有五種的條法條呢有講到這個狀況\n那逮捕呢不需要拘票有這三種狀況那請問一下刑事程序當中要限制人身自由的原則是不是要遇到法定的程序就是要具體跟逮捕我看到總長一直點頭點很用力沒錯往下看好所以那麼怎麼樣開啟詢問被告的程序一種是說如果被告已經具體逮捕了那就詢問嘛詢問後只有五個方式嘛釋放拘保責付限度住居生押嘛那如果是傳喚或自願到場的時候你在進行詢問之後\n你要不就是根據二二八第四項當庭逮捕那如果你已經逮捕了就不用那就交給法院裁定羈押那請問如果某假是受到傳喚至到道場他的人身自由那時候是不是還沒有受到限制沒有沒有所以你後來詢問之後你就這五種方式那必要的時候根據第四項當庭逮捕是不是這樣是好那我都沒有講人名吶吼大家都知道去對照一下人事實例物在講誰吶吼好那我們看一看所以呢\n違法拘提逮捕的後續效果如果沒有進行前置的程序沒有告知那違反拘提的前置程序可不可以拘押這個法院就是有可能嘛違法逮捕不可以拘押嘛那有沒有可能觸犯妨害自由或濫訴追溯的濫權追溯的這個罪名如果違法逮捕這個如果說有違法逮捕的話這有可能會觸犯\n好所以說非經合法逮捕本來就不能限制人身自由對不對所以這個我們沒有爭議是不是這樣子那我們討論的是什麼我們討論的是通訊的問題來往下看所以道場的種類剛剛講的傳喚是偵查已發動嘛但是呢被告呢他是這樣被動或者是間接強制道場是不是這樣子傳喚的時候偵查已經發動了是不是這樣第二個至少是偵查沒有發動但是呢被告主動道場是不是這樣子主動表達嘛\n那自行到場他是偵查已經發動是被告他主動來是不是這樣子那如果是自願同行你認為是不是偵查已發動他只是被動的被硬要求同意配合調查是不是這樣這樣的一個屬性列舉有沒有清楚很清楚那所以我主張往下\n所以關於這次我們要修法的內容除我本席所主張的一十五之十非經合法逮捕或拘提檢察官司法警察或司法警察不得拘束或限制被告或犯罪嫌疑人的人身自由這個是毫無疑問的那你覺得通訊自由有同時在這個過程當中要特別表明嗎這個通訊自由這個不用特別去做一個表明那至於說\n在後段第二項對於自行到場或自願同行在我看來他都是含設在配合調查到場少兩個到場兩個字齁他都是配合調查到場的類型你同不同意自行到場或自願同行他都是顯現被告配合調查到場的類型你覺得可以這樣子表達嗎用配合調查到場來含設前面兩個自行到場或自願同行\n應該是一致的是一致的好那在這種情況之下如果被告他是配合調查到場的情況之下您覺得他的通訊自由有可以完全受到保障不用限制嗎\n這個通訊自由事實上在不管是傳喚或自行盜藏或什麼盜藏或盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜\n這個是有偵查不公開的一個法律偵查事項。他是被告啊。被告有偵查不公開的憲制。這個是因為整個一個在在一個法庭的一個偵查庭裡面的一個詢問。對於被告不是偵查不公開啊。對我這個我知道。但是這個是對整個因為章友詢問不一定只有被告嘛。是的。而且偵查內容不能夠外洩出去嘛。偵查內容不得外洩。我被告雖然沒有偵查不公開的義務。\n（二）\n所以在這裡面如果我們寫上了通訊自由就像我剛問你國民有沒有通訊自由軍人有沒有通訊自由學生有沒有通訊自由學生可不可以在課堂上拿著手機對老師上課開直播大家都認為不可以詐團的律師去聯絡詐團的其他共犯就甚至會被辯護人員逮捕了更何況被告不能主張他只是傳喚還沒被監禁逮捕的時候他就擁有通訊自由可以任意的洩露偵查中的一個秘密更何況他是配合調查到場的\n總統你認為剛剛的論述我看到你們最具體的寫在你們報告裡面你們是反對的是不是這樣子你們是不同意這個通訊自由的請說最後幾秒鐘\n報告因為這個228條之一提出來這個裡面他基本上他這個範圍是比較廣泛的可是剛剛委員他有限縮這個範圍這個在討論上當然結果是不太一樣的那結果你們總長你們的文字意見你們是同意哪一種你們是認同哪一種當然剛剛依照委員那個所含涉這個議題的話\n如果這樣講起來那個通訊自由大概會對偵查影響比較大。而人身自由保障這個我們司法機關是沒有意義的。很好!謝謝!謝謝總長!謝謝部長!\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:14.301 --> 00:39.566\n主席、在場委員先進、列席的政府監事長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生。有請法務部政部長以及最高檢察署的新總長。新總長。部長好。總長好。部長、總長。請教一下。依我們憲法的規定,人民、國民有沒有通訊的自由?\n\n00:42.469 --> 00:59.946\n總統,我們的人民有沒有通訊的自由?有,可以對著麥公說。好,那軍人有沒有通訊的自由?部長有沒有?軍人有沒有通訊的自由?就要看地點。看地點。總統,你認為呢?軍人有沒有通訊的自由?在法定的規定範圍是有的。\n\n01:03.970 --> 01:15.176\n在法律規定的範圍內?是,在法律規定的範圍內有。這個很精準。講輕鬆一點吧。我的上一代當兵的人在金門馬祖的離島,他們的通訊自由就是怎樣?寫信。\n\n01:17.389 --> 01:41.168\n甚至不一定有秘密通訊,隨便還被人家拆開來看當然基本上是有秘密通訊的自由是血性我當兵的時候我在兵營的通訊自由是輪到時間可以有個時間排隊去投幣室打電話問候家人找女朋友我兒子現在在當兵他的通訊自由是一段時間會發給他手機他可以上網去看LINE\n\n01:43.130 --> 02:02.796\n總統你認為通訊自由是不是隨著通訊工具的科技變化在地點在情境下有所不同但是都是通訊自由這個是對總統也同意嘛同意那請問一下學生有沒有通訊自由學生學生有通訊的自由那學生會在課堂上開直播\n\n02:04.202 --> 02:32.305\n這個是有上課的一個秩序的問題這是上課秩序問題總統你也同意嘛學生有些規定啊高中以下的學校他有規定你上課不能帶手機但是大學好像教授不能限制學生帶手機在課堂上使用但是呢如果學生拿著手機在跟教授開直播教授在講憲法他在底下跟教授吐然後開直播你覺得如果說教授制止學生這樣做有沒有侵犯了學生的通訊自由\n\n02:34.557 --> 02:46.397\n這是一個管理的問題這是管理的問題總統你的看法呢這個喔這樣講喔對於在這個中小學這個階段跟大學是不一樣因為中小學基本上喔\n\n02:46.954 --> 02:50.817\n對所以高中以下學校可以規定學生上課不能帶手機但是大學的時候教授只有在你開直播的時候說同學請把手機收起來\n\n03:08.789 --> 03:37.648\n好來我們看我們之前看到的民眾黨所提的二二八之一他的談通訊自由跟人自由很快的說原來的二二八是傳喚被告經傳喚自首或自行到場在有必要的羈押的時候可以居以逮捕但是民眾黨提案的二二八之一他說非經合法逮捕或拘停不得去拘束或限制被告的什麼人身自由跟通訊自由他把人身自由跟通訊自由分別的從羈押逮捕當中抓出來寫\n\n03:38.829 --> 03:55.254\n那他說如果是自行的配合調查的應該事前告知這個我想沒有問題但是呢如果還沒有在經合法逮捕之前呢他的人身自由跟通訊自由是不受限制的那人身自由甚至他可以自由離去那請問部長你認同這樣的一個修法條文嗎這個我們剛才有講說這個健勤保留健勤保留那個總長呢\n\n04:08.228 --> 04:36.056\n在我們第一線司法機關的話我們的看法是這個也是保留好來我們看一下案例討論檢察官懷疑某假涉及詐騙集團激發傳票叫某假下週五來遞檢說明那某假就找了律師某以擔任辯護人如期到案在詢問中檢察官發現假涉嫌重大甚至連辯護人以也知情甚至兩個人試圖往上去聯絡集團問題一檢察官可以限定假以的通訊自由嗎部長可以嗎\n\n04:38.227 --> 05:06.144\n在偵查中的詢問訊問的過程中那如果說可以賦予他隨時通訊的一個自由就是你認為他不可以嗎?是不是?我認為是不可以來總長那你認為那這種情況之下假的人身自由有沒有被限制?在剛剛部長所說的不准他用手機那這個時候假的人身自由有沒有被限制?在這個案例上他的人身自由在詢問當中你不可以用手機啊\n\n05:08.222 --> 05:34.388\n閱讯中還沒逮捕嘛對不對他的人身有什麼限制他這個影響到我們檢察官的偵辦影響到這個對我是說偵辦當中不准律師或被告使用手機有沒有限制到同時限制到人身自由這個限制是合法的沒有限制到人身自由沒有好來我們看案例來實際的案例有個通靈律師這報上寫的他台南律師一個收押兩個交保因為呢他在陪同被告\n\n05:35.929 --> 05:45.455\n而偵訊的時候呢他洩漏了偵查方向然後呢往前面的共犯的去偵查那檢察官詢問的時候呢發現辯護人有這種情況遇到辯護人有這種情況的時候部長怎麼辦?下一頁辯護人如果在他進行越眷權在場權的時候呢他是不是有違反二四五條之四第四項偵查不公開有沒有\n\n05:59.537 --> 06:22.125\n有這個規定嘛對不對好那如果這樣的話請問總長那是不是可以根據228第4項對於這個被告呢我們就予以當庭逮捕還是對於如果被告這樣做是不是可以當庭逮捕辯護人是有月券跟在場陪同嘛他如果有洩漏你可以根據245第4項嘛那如果被告這樣做的話怎麼處理\n\n06:25.006 --> 06:25.026\n這樣子齁（\n\n06:37.202 --> 06:38.723\n議員鍾佳濱在詢問當中檢方認為他涉嫌重大可能串供滅證就申請羈押對不對是不是這樣子\n\n06:56.693 --> 07:21.626\n那如果檢察官發現辯護人有這個問題也可以把他逮捕嘛對不對?那有洩露偵查方也可以逮捕辯護人嘛可不可以?這個是一個泄密的問題對泄密的問題嘛所以防止詐團律師泄密那難道就不用防止被告串證嗎?你可以要防止辯護人泄密難道你可以不用理會被告串證嗎?所以檢察律師不可以把徵訊陪同徵訊聽到的內容對外透露那被告可不可以?\n\n07:23.360 --> 07:49.856\n這個被告也是不行當然被告也是不行嘛往下看好來所以說我們看到目前二十八字印呢有一個特別的本來二十八本文他寫傳喚自首跟自行到場在二十八字印呢他就把自行到場後面再增加一個自願同行配合調查好那看清楚了我後面會問請你記起來往下看請問自願到場就是配合調查嗎自願到場自首算不算配合調查\n\n07:52.302 --> 08:20.210\n這個就是一個沒有被拘捕的一個調查沒有被拘捕的情況我自首還沒有被拘捕我這自首就表示我我要被調查嗎我承認犯罪嗎我自自行到場也是配合調查嗎我希望你調查我自行到場嗎好那我自願同行是不是也是配合你的調查這個就是一個配合調查配合調查好那我們看看要拘捕好具體逮捕限制人身的方式來第一具體要拘票對不對有一二三四五有五種的條法條呢有講到這個狀況\n\n08:22.071 --> 08:49.259\n那逮捕呢不需要拘票有這三種狀況那請問一下刑事程序當中要限制人身自由的原則是不是要遇到法定的程序就是要具體跟逮捕我看到總長一直點頭點很用力沒錯往下看好所以那麼怎麼樣開啟詢問被告的程序一種是說如果被告已經具體逮捕了那就詢問嘛詢問後只有五個方式嘛釋放拘保責付限度住居生押嘛那如果是傳喚或自願到場的時候你在進行詢問之後\n\n08:50.885 --> 09:16.920\n你要不就是根據二二八第四項當庭逮捕那如果你已經逮捕了就不用那就交給法院裁定羈押那請問如果某假是受到傳喚至到道場他的人身自由那時候是不是還沒有受到限制沒有沒有所以你後來詢問之後你就這五種方式那必要的時候根據第四項當庭逮捕是不是這樣是好那我都沒有講人名吶吼大家都知道去對照一下人事實例物在講誰吶吼好那我們看一看所以呢\n\n09:18.255 --> 09:39.373\n違法拘提逮捕的後續效果如果沒有進行前置的程序沒有告知那違反拘提的前置程序可不可以拘押這個法院就是有可能嘛違法逮捕不可以拘押嘛那有沒有可能觸犯妨害自由或濫訴追溯的濫權追溯的這個罪名如果違法逮捕這個如果說有違法逮捕的話這有可能會觸犯\n\n09:40.094 --> 10:08.826\n好所以說非經合法逮捕本來就不能限制人身自由對不對所以這個我們沒有爭議是不是這樣子那我們討論的是什麼我們討論的是通訊的問題來往下看所以道場的種類剛剛講的傳喚是偵查已發動嘛但是呢被告呢他是這樣被動或者是間接強制道場是不是這樣子傳喚的時候偵查已經發動了是不是這樣第二個至少是偵查沒有發動但是呢被告主動道場是不是這樣子主動表達嘛\n\n10:11.487 --> 10:31.298\n那自行到場他是偵查已經發動是被告他主動來是不是這樣子那如果是自願同行你認為是不是偵查已發動他只是被動的被硬要求同意配合調查是不是這樣這樣的一個屬性列舉有沒有清楚很清楚那所以我主張往下\n\n10:32.540 --> 10:59.451\n所以關於這次我們要修法的內容除我本席所主張的一十五之十非經合法逮捕或拘提檢察官司法警察或司法警察不得拘束或限制被告或犯罪嫌疑人的人身自由這個是毫無疑問的那你覺得通訊自由有同時在這個過程當中要特別表明嗎這個通訊自由這個不用特別去做一個表明那至於說\n\n11:00.188 --> 11:25.681\n在後段第二項對於自行到場或自願同行在我看來他都是含設在配合調查到場少兩個到場兩個字齁他都是配合調查到場的類型你同不同意自行到場或自願同行他都是顯現被告配合調查到場的類型你覺得可以這樣子表達嗎用配合調查到場來含設前面兩個自行到場或自願同行\n\n11:26.651 --> 11:38.462\n應該是一致的是一致的好那在這種情況之下如果被告他是配合調查到場的情況之下您覺得他的通訊自由有可以完全受到保障不用限制嗎\n\n11:40.434 --> 11:44.957\n這個通訊自由事實上在不管是傳喚或自行盜藏或什麼盜藏或盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜\n\n12:06.634 --> 12:29.384\n這個是有偵查不公開的一個法律偵查事項。他是被告啊。被告有偵查不公開的憲制。這個是因為整個一個在在一個法庭的一個偵查庭裡面的一個詢問。對於被告不是偵查不公開啊。對我這個我知道。但是這個是對整個因為章友詢問不一定只有被告嘛。是的。而且偵查內容不能夠外洩出去嘛。偵查內容不得外洩。我被告雖然沒有偵查不公開的義務。\n\n12:30.064 --> 12:30.084\n（二）\n\n12:46.767 --> 13:15.242\n所以在這裡面如果我們寫上了通訊自由就像我剛問你國民有沒有通訊自由軍人有沒有通訊自由學生有沒有通訊自由學生可不可以在課堂上拿著手機對老師上課開直播大家都認為不可以詐團的律師去聯絡詐團的其他共犯就甚至會被辯護人員逮捕了更何況被告不能主張他只是傳喚還沒被監禁逮捕的時候他就擁有通訊自由可以任意的洩露偵查中的一個秘密更何況他是配合調查到場的\n\n13:18.945 --> 13:26.231\n總統你認為剛剛的論述我看到你們最具體的寫在你們報告裡面你們是反對的是不是這樣子你們是不同意這個通訊自由的請說最後幾秒鐘\n\n13:30.373 --> 13:52.559\n報告因為這個228條之一提出來這個裡面他基本上他這個範圍是比較廣泛的可是剛剛委員他有限縮這個範圍這個在討論上當然結果是不太一樣的那結果你們總長你們的文字意見你們是同意哪一種你們是認同哪一種當然剛剛依照委員那個所含涉這個議題的話\n\n13:55.856 --> 14:04.793\n如果這樣講起來那個通訊自由大概會對偵查影響比較大。而人身自由保障這個我們司法機關是沒有意義的。很好!謝謝!謝謝總長!謝謝部長!\n\n","segments":[{"start":14.301,"end":39.566,"text":"主席、在場委員先進、列席的政府監事長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生。有請法務部政部長以及最高檢察署的新總長。新總長。部長好。總長好。部長、總長。請教一下。依我們憲法的規定,人民、國民有沒有通訊的自由?"},{"start":42.469,"end":59.946,"text":"總統,我們的人民有沒有通訊的自由?有,可以對著麥公說。好,那軍人有沒有通訊的自由?部長有沒有?軍人有沒有通訊的自由?就要看地點。看地點。總統,你認為呢?軍人有沒有通訊的自由?在法定的規定範圍是有的。"},{"start":63.97,"end":75.176,"text":"在法律規定的範圍內?是,在法律規定的範圍內有。這個很精準。講輕鬆一點吧。我的上一代當兵的人在金門馬祖的離島,他們的通訊自由就是怎樣?寫信。"},{"start":77.389,"end":101.168,"text":"甚至不一定有秘密通訊,隨便還被人家拆開來看當然基本上是有秘密通訊的自由是血性我當兵的時候我在兵營的通訊自由是輪到時間可以有個時間排隊去投幣室打電話問候家人找女朋友我兒子現在在當兵他的通訊自由是一段時間會發給他手機他可以上網去看LINE"},{"start":103.13,"end":122.796,"text":"總統你認為通訊自由是不是隨著通訊工具的科技變化在地點在情境下有所不同但是都是通訊自由這個是對總統也同意嘛同意那請問一下學生有沒有通訊自由學生學生有通訊的自由那學生會在課堂上開直播"},{"start":124.202,"end":152.305,"text":"這個是有上課的一個秩序的問題這是上課秩序問題總統你也同意嘛學生有些規定啊高中以下的學校他有規定你上課不能帶手機但是大學好像教授不能限制學生帶手機在課堂上使用但是呢如果學生拿著手機在跟教授開直播教授在講憲法他在底下跟教授吐然後開直播你覺得如果說教授制止學生這樣做有沒有侵犯了學生的通訊自由"},{"start":154.557,"end":166.397,"text":"這是一個管理的問題這是管理的問題 總統你的看法呢這個喔 這樣講喔對於在這個中小學這個階段跟大學是不一樣因為中小學基本上喔"},{"start":166.954,"end":170.817,"text":"對 所以高中以下學校可以規定學生上課不能帶手機但是大學的時候教授只有在你開直播的時候說同學請把手機收起來"},{"start":188.789,"end":217.648,"text":"好來我們看我們之前看到的民眾黨所提的二二八之一他的談通訊自由跟人自由很快的說原來的二二八是傳喚被告經傳喚自首或自行到場在有必要的羈押的時候可以居以逮捕但是民眾黨提案的二二八之一他說非經合法逮捕或拘停不得去拘束或限制被告的什麼人身自由跟通訊自由他把人身自由跟通訊自由分別的從羈押逮捕當中抓出來寫"},{"start":218.829,"end":235.254,"text":"那他說如果是自行的配合調查的應該事前告知這個我想沒有問題但是呢如果還沒有在經合法逮捕之前呢他的人身自由跟通訊自由是不受限制的那人身自由甚至他可以自由離去那請問部長你認同這樣的一個修法條文嗎這個我們剛才有講說這個健勤保留健勤保留那個總長呢"},{"start":248.228,"end":276.056,"text":"在我們第一線司法機關的話我們的看法是這個也是保留好來我們看一下案例討論檢察官懷疑某假涉及詐騙集團激發傳票叫某假下週五來遞檢說明那某假就找了律師某以擔任辯護人如期到案在詢問中檢察官發現假涉嫌重大甚至連辯護人以也知情甚至兩個人試圖往上去聯絡集團問題一檢察官可以限定假以的通訊自由嗎部長可以嗎"},{"start":278.227,"end":306.144,"text":"在偵查中的詢問訊問的過程中那如果說可以賦予他隨時通訊的一個自由就是你認為他不可以嗎?是不是?我認為是不可以來總長那你認為那這種情況之下假的人身自由有沒有被限制?在剛剛部長所說的不准他用手機那這個時候假的人身自由有沒有被限制?在這個案例上他的人身自由在詢問當中你不可以用手機啊"},{"start":308.222,"end":334.388,"text":"閱讯中還沒逮捕嘛對不對他的人身有什麼限制他這個影響到我們檢察官的偵辦影響到這個對我是說偵辦當中不准律師或被告使用手機有沒有限制到同時限制到人身自由這個限制是合法的沒有限制到人身自由沒有好來我們看案例來實際的案例有個通靈律師這報上寫的他台南律師一個收押兩個交保因為呢他在陪同被告"},{"start":335.929,"end":345.455,"text":"而偵訊的時候呢他洩漏了偵查方向然後呢往前面的共犯的去偵查那檢察官詢問的時候呢發現辯護人有這種情況遇到辯護人有這種情況的時候部長怎麼辦?下一頁辯護人如果在他進行越眷權在場權的時候呢他是不是有違反二四五條之四第四項偵查不公開有沒有"},{"start":359.537,"end":382.125,"text":"有這個規定嘛對不對好那如果這樣的話請問總長那是不是可以根據228第4項對於這個被告呢我們就予以當庭逮捕還是對於如果被告這樣做是不是可以當庭逮捕辯護人是有月券跟在場陪同嘛他如果有洩漏你可以根據245第4項嘛那如果被告這樣做的話怎麼處理"},{"start":385.006,"end":385.026,"text":"這樣子齁（"},{"start":397.202,"end":398.723,"text":"議員鍾佳濱在詢問當中檢方認為他涉嫌重大可能串供滅證就申請羈押對不對是不是這樣子"},{"start":416.693,"end":441.626,"text":"那如果檢察官發現辯護人有這個問題也可以把他逮捕嘛對不對?那有洩露偵查方也可以逮捕辯護人嘛可不可以?這個是一個泄密的問題對泄密的問題嘛所以防止詐團律師泄密那難道就不用防止被告串證嗎?你可以要防止辯護人泄密難道你可以不用理會被告串證嗎?所以檢察律師不可以把徵訊陪同徵訊聽到的內容對外透露那被告可不可以?"},{"start":443.36,"end":469.856,"text":"這個被告也是不行當然被告也是不行嘛往下看好來所以說我們看到目前二十八字印呢有一個特別的本來二十八本文他寫傳喚自首跟自行到場在二十八字印呢他就把自行到場後面再增加一個自願同行配合調查好那看清楚了我後面會問請你記起來往下看請問自願到場就是配合調查嗎自願到場自首算不算配合調查"},{"start":472.302,"end":500.21,"text":"這個就是一個沒有被拘捕的一個調查沒有被拘捕的情況我自首還沒有被拘捕我這自首就表示我我要被調查嗎我承認犯罪嗎我自自行到場也是配合調查嗎我希望你調查我自行到場嗎好那我自願同行是不是也是配合你的調查這個就是一個配合調查配合調查好那我們看看要拘捕好具體逮捕限制人身的方式來第一具體要拘票對不對有一二三四五有五種的條法條呢有講到這個狀況"},{"start":502.071,"end":529.259,"text":"那逮捕呢不需要拘票有這三種狀況那請問一下刑事程序當中要限制人身自由的原則是不是要遇到法定的程序就是要具體跟逮捕我看到總長一直點頭點很用力沒錯往下看好所以那麼怎麼樣開啟詢問被告的程序一種是說如果被告已經具體逮捕了那就詢問嘛詢問後只有五個方式嘛釋放拘保責付限度住居生押嘛那如果是傳喚或自願到場的時候你在進行詢問之後"},{"start":530.885,"end":556.92,"text":"你要不就是根據二二八第四項當庭逮捕那如果你已經逮捕了就不用那就交給法院裁定羈押那請問如果某假是受到傳喚至到道場他的人身自由那時候是不是還沒有受到限制沒有沒有所以你後來詢問之後你就這五種方式那必要的時候根據第四項當庭逮捕是不是這樣是好那我都沒有講人名吶吼大家都知道去對照一下人事實例物在講誰吶吼好那我們看一看所以呢"},{"start":558.255,"end":579.373,"text":"違法拘提逮捕的後續效果如果沒有進行前置的程序沒有告知那違反拘提的前置程序可不可以拘押這個法院就是有可能嘛違法逮捕不可以拘押嘛那有沒有可能觸犯妨害自由或濫訴追溯的濫權追溯的這個罪名如果違法逮捕這個如果說有違法逮捕的話這有可能會觸犯"},{"start":580.094,"end":608.826,"text":"好所以說非經合法逮捕本來就不能限制人身自由對不對所以這個我們沒有爭議是不是這樣子那我們討論的是什麼我們討論的是通訊的問題來往下看所以道場的種類剛剛講的傳喚是偵查已發動嘛但是呢被告呢他是這樣被動或者是間接強制道場是不是這樣子傳喚的時候偵查已經發動了是不是這樣第二個至少是偵查沒有發動但是呢被告主動道場是不是這樣子主動表達嘛"},{"start":611.487,"end":631.298,"text":"那自行到場他是偵查已經發動是被告他主動來是不是這樣子那如果是自願同行你認為是不是偵查已發動他只是被動的被硬要求同意配合調查是不是這樣這樣的一個屬性列舉有沒有清楚很清楚那所以我主張往下"},{"start":632.54,"end":659.451,"text":"所以關於這次我們要修法的內容除我本席所主張的一十五之十非經合法逮捕或拘提檢察官司法警察或司法警察不得拘束或限制被告或犯罪嫌疑人的人身自由這個是毫無疑問的那你覺得通訊自由有同時在這個過程當中要特別表明嗎這個通訊自由這個不用特別去做一個表明那至於說"},{"start":660.188,"end":685.681,"text":"在後段第二項對於自行到場或自願同行在我看來他都是含設在配合調查到場少兩個到場兩個字齁他都是配合調查到場的類型你同不同意自行到場或自願同行他都是顯現被告配合調查到場的類型你覺得可以這樣子表達嗎用配合調查到場來含設前面兩個自行到場或自願同行"},{"start":686.651,"end":698.462,"text":"應該是一致的是一致的好那在這種情況之下如果被告他是配合調查到場的情況之下您覺得他的通訊自由有可以完全受到保障不用限制嗎"},{"start":700.434,"end":704.957,"text":"這個通訊自由事實上在不管是傳喚或自行盜藏或什麼盜藏或盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜盜"},{"start":726.634,"end":749.384,"text":"這個是有偵查不公開的一個法律偵查事項。他是被告啊。被告有偵查不公開的憲制。這個是因為整個一個在在一個法庭的一個偵查庭裡面的一個詢問。對於被告不是偵查不公開啊。對我這個我知道。但是這個是對整個因為章友詢問不一定只有被告嘛。是的。而且偵查內容不能夠外洩出去嘛。偵查內容不得外洩。我被告雖然沒有偵查不公開的義務。"},{"start":750.064,"end":750.084,"text":" （二）"},{"start":766.767,"end":795.242,"text":"所以在這裡面如果我們寫上了通訊自由就像我剛問你國民有沒有通訊自由軍人有沒有通訊自由學生有沒有通訊自由學生可不可以在課堂上拿著手機對老師上課開直播大家都認為不可以詐團的律師去聯絡詐團的其他共犯就甚至會被辯護人員逮捕了更何況被告不能主張他只是傳喚還沒被監禁逮捕的時候他就擁有通訊自由可以任意的洩露偵查中的一個秘密更何況他是配合調查到場的"},{"start":798.945,"end":806.231,"text":"總統你認為剛剛的論述我看到你們最具體的寫在你們報告裡面你們是反對的是不是這樣子你們是不同意這個通訊自由的請說最後幾秒鐘"},{"start":810.373,"end":832.559,"text":"報告因為這個228條之一提出來這個裡面他基本上他這個範圍是比較廣泛的可是剛剛委員他有限縮這個範圍這個在討論上當然結果是不太一樣的那結果你們總長你們的文字意見你們是同意哪一種你們是認同哪一種當然剛剛依照委員那個所含涉這個議題的話"},{"start":835.856,"end":844.793,"text":"如果這樣講起來那個通訊自由大概會對偵查影響比較大。而人身自由保障這個我們司法機關是沒有意義的。很好!謝謝!謝謝總長!謝謝部長!"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":283,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（9時30分）主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關首長及官員、會場的工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請法務部鄭部長以及最高檢察署邢總長。"],["主席：鄭部長、邢總長。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長好、總長好。部長，總長，請教一下，依我們憲法的規定，人民、國民有沒有通訊自由？"],["鄭部長銘謙：有通訊的自由。"],["鍾委員佳濱：總長，我們人民有沒有通訊自由？有喔！你可以對著麥克風說。","那軍人有沒有通訊自由？部長，有沒有？軍人有沒有通訊自由？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這要看地點。"],["鍾委員佳濱：總長，你認為呢？軍人有沒有通訊自由？"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：在法令的規定範圍……"],["鍾委員佳濱：是有的喔！總長，因為我們是麥克風收音，您距離那麼遠，我們可能聽不到。"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：在法令規定的範圍內。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是，在法令規定的範圍內，這個很精準。講輕鬆一點吧！我的上一代，當兵的人在金門、馬祖離島，他們的通訊自由就是怎麼樣？寫信。甚至不一定是秘密通訊，說不定還被人家拆開來看，當然基本上是有秘密通訊的自由，是寫信。我當兵的時候，我在兵營的通訊自由是，輪到了可以有個時間排隊去投幣室打電話，問候家人、找女朋友。我兒子現在在當兵，他的通訊自由是一段時間會發給他手機，他可以上網去看LINE。部長、總長，你認為通訊自由是不是隨著通訊工具的科技變化，在地點、在情境下有所不同？但都是通訊自由。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個是對的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：總長也同意嘛？"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：同意。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那請問一下，學生有沒有通訊自由？學生。"],["鄭部長銘謙：學生有通訊的自由。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那學生可不可以在課堂上開直播？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這有上課秩序的問題。"],["鍾委員佳濱：哦！這是上課秩序的問題。總長，你也同意嘛？有些高中以下的學校規定上課不能帶手機，但是大學好像教授不能限制學生帶手機在課堂上使用，那麼如果學生拿著手機開直播，教授在講憲法，他在底下跟教授「黜」，然後開直播，如果教授制止學生這樣做，你覺得有沒有侵犯學生的通訊自由？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這是一個管理的問題。"],["鍾委員佳濱：這是管理的問題？總長，你的看法呢？"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：中小學階段跟大學是不一樣的，中小學基本上雖然有受教權，但是也有老師教學的教學自主，所以在中小學，包括高中以下是一個，但是大學……"],["鍾委員佳濱：不一樣了？"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：又是另外一個……"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，所以高中以下學校可以規定學生上課不能帶手機，但是大學的時候，教授只有在你開直播的時候說：同學，請把手機收起來。可以哦？","好，我們先看民眾黨提案增訂第二百二十八條之一所談的人身自由與通訊自由。我很快地說，原來的第二百二十八條第四項是規定「被告經傳喚、自首或自行到場……但認有羈押之必要者，得予逮捕……」，但是民眾黨所提的增訂第二百二十八條之一是說：「非經合法逮捕或拘提，……不得拘束或限制被告或犯罪嫌疑人之人身自由與通訊自由。」它把人身自由跟通訊自由分別從羈押、逮捕當中抓出來寫，然後說如果是「自行到場或自願同行配合調查」的，應該事前告知，這個我想沒有問題；但是如果還沒有經合法逮捕之前，人身自由與通訊自由是不受限制的，人身自由方面他甚至可以自由離去。請問部長，你認同這樣的修法條文嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們剛才有說這個建請保留。"],["鍾委員佳濱：建請保留？總長的意見呢？"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：在我們第一線執法機關的話，我們的看法也是保留。"],["鍾委員佳濱：要保留？好。我們看一下案例討論：檢察官懷疑某甲參與詐騙集團，於是寄發傳票請某甲下週五到地檢署說明，某甲就找律師某乙擔任辯護人並如期到案。檢察官在訊問中發現不僅甲涉嫌重大，連辯護人乙也知情，兩人甚至試圖往上聯絡集團。問題一：檢察官可以限制甲、乙的通訊自由嗎？部長，可以嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：在偵查中的詢問、訊問的過程中，如果可以賦予他隨時通訊的自由……"],["鍾委員佳濱：就是你認為他不可以嘛！是不是？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這不可以，因為……"],["鍾委員佳濱：來，總長，那你認為在這種情況之下，甲的人身自由有沒有被限制？在剛剛部長所說的不准他用手機，這個時候甲的人身自由有沒有被限制？在這個案例上。","他的人身自由，在訊問當中說：「欸！你不可以用手機啊！」這是在訊問中，還沒逮捕嘛！對不對？他的人身自由有沒有受到限制？"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：他這個影響到檢察官偵辦、影響到司法……"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，我是說偵辦當中不准律師或被告使用手機有沒有同時限制到他的人身自由？"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：這個限制是合法的啊！"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有限制到人身自由？","沒有，好。我們繼續看實際的案例。有一個「通靈律師」，這是報紙上寫的，說臺南律師一個收押、兩個交保，因為他在陪同被告偵訊的時候洩露偵查方向。然後呢？往前面的共犯去……","檢察官訊問的時候發現辯護人有這種情況。遇到辯護人有這種情況的時候，部長，怎麼辦？辯護人如果在行使閱卷權、在場權的時候這樣做，是不是有違反刑事訴訟法第二百四十五條第五項的偵查不公開？有沒有？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這……"],["鍾委員佳濱：有沒有？有這個規定嘛！對不對？","好，那如果這樣的話，請問總長，是不是可以刑事訴訟法第二百二十八條第四項對這個被告予以當庭逮捕？如果被告這樣做，是不是可以當庭逮捕？辯護人是有閱卷跟在場陪同嘛，他如果有洩漏，可以根據第二百四十五條第五項，那如果被告這樣做的話，怎麼處理？"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：委員講的是被告……"],["鍾委員佳濱：被告在偵訊中就開始要跟外面通訊、要去串供啊！你可以怎麼辦？"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：當然，如果他有違法的話，對於現行犯，我們檢察官當然可以依法逮捕，不過每個案子的情況不同……"],["鍾委員佳濱：情況不同？好，我發現總長講得都很精準。要講得很精準。","我問部長好了。就剛剛問的，被告在訊問當中，檢方認為他涉嫌重大，可能串供、滅證，就聲請羈押，對不對？是不是這樣子？"],["鄭部長銘謙：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那如果檢察官發現辯護人有這個問題，也可以把他逮捕嘛！對不對？洩漏偵查方向，也可以逮捕辯護人嘛！可不可以？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個是一個洩密的問題……"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，洩密的問題嘛！所以要防止詐團律師洩密，難道就不用防止被告串證嗎？你要防止辯護人洩密，難道可以不用理會被告串證嗎？所以律師不可以把陪同偵訊聽到的內容對外透露，那被告可不可以？"],["鄭部長銘謙：被告也不行。"],["鍾委員佳濱：當然被告也不行嘛！","所以我們看到現行第二百二十八條第四項的本文寫的是「被告經傳喚、自首或自行到場者」，現在要增訂的第二百二十八條之一在「自行到場」的後面加了一個「自願同行配合調查」，看清楚了喔！我後面會問，請你記起來。","請問自願到場就是配合調查嗎？自首算不算配合調查？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個就是一個沒有被拘捕的到場。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有被拘捕的情況？我還沒有被拘捕就自首，就表示我要被調查、我承認犯罪嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：自願接受調查……"],["鍾委員佳濱：我自行到場也是配合調查嘛！我希望你調查，我自行到場嘛！那我自願同行是不是也是配合你的調查？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個就是一個配合調查。"],["鍾委員佳濱：配合調查？好，那我們看看拘提、逮捕限制人身自由的方式。拘提要拘票，對不對？有五個法條有講到這樣的狀況；逮捕不需要拘票，有本席列出來的這三種狀況。那請問一下，刑事程序當中，要限制人身自由的原則是不是都要依照法定的程序？"],["鄭部長銘謙：就是要拘提跟逮捕……"],["鍾委員佳濱：哇，我看到總長一直點頭，點得很用力，沒錯！","好，那怎麼樣開啟訊問被告的程序？一種是說如果被告已經被拘提、逮捕了，那就訊問嘛！訊問後有五個方式：釋放、具保、責付、限制住居、聲押；如果是傳喚或自願到場，在進行訊問之後，要不就是根據第二百二十八條第四項當庭逮捕，如果已經逮捕了，就不用，就交給法院裁定是否羈押。那請問，如果某甲是受傳喚後到場，他的人身自由那個時候是不是還沒有受到限制？"],["鄭部長銘謙：沒有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有？所以你後來訊問之後就是這五種方式，必要的時候根據第四項當庭逮捕，是不是這樣？"],["鄭部長銘謙：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，我都沒有講人名啦！大家都知道，去對照一下，人、事、時、地、物在講誰。所以呢？違法拘提、逮捕的後續效果是什麼？如果沒有進行前置的程序、沒有告知，那麼違反拘提的前置程序可不可以羈押？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個法院就是……"],["鍾委員佳濱：有可能嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：不可以……"],["鍾委員佳濱：違法逮捕不可以羈押嘛！","那麼有沒有可能觸犯妨害自由或濫權追訴的罪名？如果違法逮捕。"],["鄭部長銘謙：如果說有違法逮捕的話，是有可能會觸法的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，所以說，非經合法逮捕，本來就不能限制人身自由，對不對？這點我們沒有爭議，是不是這樣子？"],["鄭部長銘謙：是，這個沒有爭議。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那我們討論的是什麼？我們討論的是通訊的問題。到場的種類剛剛講了，傳喚是偵查已發動，但被告是被動或間接強制到場，是不是這樣子？傳喚的時候，偵查已經發動了，是不是這樣？"],["鄭部長銘謙：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：第二個，自首是偵查還沒有發動，但是被告主動到場，是不是這樣子？主動表達嘛！沒錯嘛？"],["鄭部長銘謙：是，自願接受調查。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那自行到場是偵查已經發動，是被告主動來，是不是這樣子？"],["鄭部長銘謙：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那如果是自願同行，你認為是不是偵查已發動，他只是被動地、應要求，同意配合調查，是不是這樣？這樣的一個屬性列舉有沒有清楚？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個很清楚。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以關於這次我們要修法的內容，除了本席所主張的第一百四十五條之十「非經合法逮捕或拘提，檢察官、司法警察官或司法警察不得拘束或限制被告或犯罪嫌疑人之人身自由。」這個是毫無疑問的。那你覺得通訊自由有同時在這個過程當中要特別表明嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個通訊自由不用特別去做一個表明。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。至於第二項「對於自行到場或自願同行……」，在我看來，它都是涵攝在「配合調查到場」的類型，你同不同意？自行到場或自願同行，都是顯現被告配合調查到場的類型，您覺得可以這樣子表達嗎？用配合調查到場來涵攝前面兩個自行到場或自願同行？"],["鄭部長銘謙：應該是一致的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：一致的？好。那如果被告是在配合調查到場的情況之下，您覺得他的通訊自由可以完全受到保障，不用限制嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個通訊自由事實上不管是在傳喚、自行到場或什麼情形到場，或……"],["鍾委員佳濱：都是會受到拘束？"],["鄭部長銘謙：都會受到拘束。"],["鍾委員佳濱：受到我們偵查指揮的拘束。就像老師在上課的時候對於課堂的秩序可以有所要求一樣，我們試想今天某柯姓嫌疑人、被告接到邀請，他自願同行，在檢察官偵查的時候，他可以拿著手機開直播嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個是有偵查不公開的一個妨害偵查……"],["鍾委員佳濱：他是被告啊，被告有偵查不公開的限制？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個是因為整個在法庭的一個偵查庭裡面的訊問……"],["鍾委員佳濱：對於被告不是偵查不公開啊！"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個我知道，但是這是對整個……因為當場訊問不一定只有被告嘛！"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的。"],["鄭部長銘謙：而且偵查內容不能夠外洩出去。"],["鍾委員佳濱：偵查內容不得外洩，被告雖然沒有偵查不公開的義務，但是你在偵訊我，我是配合調查到場的，我沒有被傳喚，我難道不能帶著手機，檢察官問我，一面詢問，一面開直播嗎？可不可以？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個做直播的話，就把所有偵查的過程全部都洩露出來。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的，所以在這裡面，如果我們寫上了通訊自由，就像我剛剛問你，國民有沒有通訊自由？軍人有沒有通訊自由？學生有沒有通訊自由？學生可不可以在課堂上拿著手機，對老師上課開直播？大家都認為不可以；詐團的律師去聯絡詐團的其他共犯，甚至辯護人都會被逮捕了，更何況被告不能主張他只是被傳喚還沒被逮捕的時候，他就擁有通訊自由，可以任意的洩露偵查中的秘密，更何況他是配合調查到場的，是不是這樣子？"],["鄭部長銘謙：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：總長，對於剛剛的論述，我看到你們最具體的寫在你們報告裡面，你們是反對的，是不是這樣子？你們是不同意這個通訊自由的？請說，最後幾秒鐘。"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：跟委員報告，因為第二百二十八條之一提出來這個裡面，基本上，這個範圍是比較廣泛的，可是剛剛委員有限縮這個範圍，這個在討論上當然結果是不太一樣啦。"],["鍾委員佳濱：總長，結果你們的文字意見是同意哪一種？你們是認同哪一種？"],["邢檢察總長泰釗：剛剛依照委員所涵括、所涵攝這個議題的話，如果這樣講起來，那個通訊自由大概會對偵查影響比較大，而人身自由保障，這個我們司法機關是沒有異議的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好，謝謝，謝謝總長、謝謝部長。"],["主席：好，謝謝。我們下一位請黃國昌委員進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-8","speakers":["吳宗憲","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","黃國昌","沈發惠","羅智強","林思銘","吳思瑤","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","翁曉玲","陳俊宇"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1139001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"併案審查(一)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員鍾佳濱等19人\n擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百五十三條之十條文修正草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1139001_00001"}}}