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{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 222.059, \"end\": 222.64, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 222.64, \"end\": 222.72, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 222.72, \"end\": 222.78, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 222.78, \"end\": 222.8, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 228.261, \"end\": 255.432, \"text\": \"會很難解決嗎?沒有的話那你的少子化問題就會越來越嚴重嘛你最基本的錢的補助錢不能通過的時候沒有預算沒有錢你後面的那些你講的那個風氣啦文化啦那個其實跟台灣還有很大段的距離但是眼前我們可以提高生育率我們可以提高對於孩子們的養育津貼的這個部分沒有錢啊那怎麼做?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 228.261, \"end\": 228.601, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 228.601, \"end\": 230.482, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 230.482, \"end\": 230.622, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 230.622, \"end\": 230.762, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 556.151, \"end\": 556.731, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 556.731, \"end\": 557.892, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 557.892, \"end\": 557.912, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:12,153 --> 00:00:39,627\n謝謝主席我先請一下國發會請國發會劉主委好主委今天我們要來討論這個少子化的議題我想這個國發會你們最新發布的這個人口推估啊到2070年的時候我們的生產者跟老年人口的比例將到達1對不對這個是你們最新的一個版本\n\n2\n00:00:40,339 --> 00:00:56,463\n你不要告訴我你沒看過是的沒錯好來那也就是說其實在臺灣的這個少子高齡化的趨勢其實是在快速的擴大當中所以如果這樣子照你們現在的推估到2070年臺灣將會減少大概903萬的人口應該是920萬我們的數字你們的數字是920萬7年\n\n3\n00:01:06,937 --> 00:01:08,538\n主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n\n4\n00:01:20,370 --> 00:01:42,290\n但是西歐跟美國、澳洲等等這些國家其實他們的少子化的趨勢是比較和緩請教一下你們有沒有去做過研究這些國家為什麼他們有辦法維持這樣子的生育率雖然生育率是不像台灣、韓國、新加坡、日本的生育率是這麼低\n\n5\n00:01:43,331 --> 00:01:46,213\n他們有沒有什麼值得我們借鏡的地方?你們有沒有去做過研究?\n\n6\n00:02:13,931 --> 00:02:36,762\n在歐美婚生子女比較少很多人不見得要結婚就生小孩了我先談到錢的部分您剛講到這個錢的部分我們的內閣其實對於少子高齡化有一些新的政策比如說我們的育兒津貼0到6歲國家一起養2.0兩歲的專班\n\n7\n00:02:41,163 --> 00:03:08,449\n讓你看一下這個未來的預算增加不只是0到6歲國家跟你一起養青少年的這個預算增加了44億從教育部、衛福部到勞動部等等這個留職、停薪育兒的津貼都增加婦女的生育率我們也希望婦女的生育率能夠增加所以我們的人工生殖技術的補助等等\n\n8\n00:03:09,430 --> 00:03:17,608\n這一些錢就是您剛講的都要錢嘛政府用大量的補助增加的補助去給他們沒錯\n\n9\n00:03:19,093 --> 00:03:42,800\n那我請教一下現在你的這個所謂的少子化對策計畫294億有沒有總預算沒有那您剛講的這些補助在哪裡?錢從哪裡來?需要預算通過而且不只這個金額在未來財霸法包括依照現在的這個在野黨的版本中央會少掉4000億只剩下3600億的錢那我們剛講的這些補助\n\n10\n00:03:48,261 --> 00:04:15,432\n會很難解決嗎?沒有的話那你的少子化問題就會越來越嚴重嘛你最基本的錢的補助錢不能通過的時候沒有預算沒有錢你後面的那些你講的那個風氣啦文化啦那個其實跟台灣還有很大段的距離但是眼前我們可以提高生育率我們可以提高對於孩子們的養育津貼的這個部分沒有錢啊那怎麼做?\n\n11\n00:04:17,154 --> 00:04:39,766\n所以少子化這個議題它跟我們的總預算也是牽扯非常的廣泛那剛剛其實也有委員一直在講說我們不談提高生育率我們一直講留才攬才其實主委我要接下來跟您請教這個部分我是不是也請一下這個勞動部跟教育部好不好\n\n12\n00:04:40,507 --> 00:04:47,436\n呃、教育部請張教次長、勞動部首長、勞動部我們一直在談留才攬才這件事啊\n\n13\n00:04:50,460 --> 00:05:16,474\n剛剛這個勞動部也特別報導從8月份開始僑生可以從事旅宿業的服務工作對不對未來我們還要增加醫院的照護輔助人力倉儲人力貨車駕駛助理以及這個客運駕駛的安全管理人力的問題我們要利用這些所謂的僑外生來增加我們的人力來補足我們的人力缺口是不是這樣這是勞動部的政策嘛\n\n14\n00:05:18,169 --> 00:05:25,101\n來接下來我要請教一下到底這一些橋外生他是學生是喬生還是學工\n\n15\n00:05:26,311 --> 00:05:54,300\n我為什麼會這樣問?你看明年這個教育部應該有掌握明年有三萬個私立的高中職的學生裡面每四個就有一個是所謂的僑生僑生要到台灣來上課他必須通過基礎的華語文測驗對不對?次長那個張亮次長你知道嗎?但是你知道現在這一些僑生\n\n16\n00:05:57,017 --> 00:06:23,336\n來這個是監察院最新的報告我們剛剛講僑委會從103年開始擴大所謂的產學攜手合作僑生專班3加4112年的招生人數是4069人到目前為止有畢業了三屆次長您看一下這個畢業率這一些學生來念書之後他的畢業率到最新的這屆是25.51\n\n17\n00:06:27,130 --> 00:06:45,049\n就說這些學生來念書可是他念到一半以後他就退學了真正能夠念到畢業的只有25%真正留在台灣的4000多人裡面真正能夠留在台灣的也不過才幾百人這到底是什麼樣的問題\n\n18\n00:06:47,327 --> 00:07:04,924\n是教育的問題呢還是說你們當時招生的時候其實只是為了找一些學工來並不是真的要讓他們在這裡念書求取知識然後甚至多學一些技能來留下來我我\n\n19\n00:07:05,865 --> 00:07:20,068\n我去做一個調查,包括有一篇報導他說這些孩子們其實雖然來這裡念書但他們的中文能力其實跟我們的認知是有很大的落差的來,次長\n\n20\n00:07:20,911 --> 00:07:47,366\n跟委員報告其實僑委會也針對這個事情也來教育部這邊也來跟我們討論其實很重要的一個問題就是語言的適應的問題就是說他的那個語言能力所以他現在這個比較變通的辦法就是在將來他在海外設立基地都是希望說來台灣前他的那個語文能力能夠達到一定的程度可是次長他來台灣前不是已經有通過了基礎的語文測驗嗎就是A1就是次長到A1\n\n21\n00:07:48,507 --> 00:08:17,594\n所以A1是很低的level就是了那他如果是這樣他來台灣比如說來台灣上課的時候學校是不是要能夠因材施教比如說你的中文程度到什麼樣的程度我應該要讓你多一點或是應該怎麼樣去教導你那你的這些僑生他有可能是在職業學校跟他的技職有相關的中文的學習專有名詞的學習是不是也應該要多一點\n\n22\n00:08:18,554 --> 00:08:39,346\n還是說阿就像放牛扒那樣親菜阿來?對我想委員你的建議非常好其實我們那個僑委會的那個委員長來拜訪的時候我們就提過這個他其實語言的適應方面還有這個生活適應的方面都會相關這部分我們會一起來檢討那希望將來的那個留在台灣適應的能力、語言的能力都能夠提高\n\n23\n00:08:40,286 --> 00:09:05,211\n這個其實會跟未來勞動部你要再開放各個不同的產業其實是有更正相關如果他在語言能力上面你比如說去做照護員他在語言能力的理解上是有很大的落差的話他根本沒辦法做好這個工作他當貨車的駕駛他連中文都看不懂中文字看不懂他要下高速公路要下哪一個路口要左轉右轉他都看不懂的話那你很難在這樣的一個行業裡頭去\n\n24\n00:09:06,604 --> 00:09:17,912\n去達到我們要的這個人力目標所以我想這個部分可能要請勞動部跟教育部甚至僑委會都要在多方的再去配合好嗎?好,謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12153\t39627\t謝謝主席我先請一下國發會請國發會劉主委好主委今天我們要來討論這個少子化的議題我想這個國發會你們最新發布的這個人口推估啊到2070年的時候我們的生產者跟老年人口的比例將到達1對不對這個是你們最新的一個版本\n40339\t56463\t你不要告訴我你沒看過是的沒錯好來那也就是說其實在臺灣的這個少子高齡化的趨勢其實是在快速的擴大當中所以如果這樣子照你們現在的推估到2070年臺灣將會減少大概903萬的人口應該是920萬我們的數字你們的數字是920萬7年\n66937\t68538\t主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n80370\t102290\t但是西歐跟美國、澳洲等等這些國家其實他們的少子化的趨勢是比較和緩請教一下你們有沒有去做過研究這些國家為什麼他們有辦法維持這樣子的生育率雖然生育率是不像台灣、韓國、新加坡、日本的生育率是這麼低\n103331\t106213\t他們有沒有什麼值得我們借鏡的地方?你們有沒有去做過研究?\n133931\t156762\t在歐美婚生子女比較少很多人不見得要結婚就生小孩了我先談到錢的部分您剛講到這個錢的部分我們的內閣其實對於少子高齡化有一些新的政策比如說我們的育兒津貼0到6歲國家一起養2.0兩歲的專班\n161163\t188449\t讓你看一下這個未來的預算增加不只是0到6歲國家跟你一起養青少年的這個預算增加了44億從教育部、衛福部到勞動部等等這個留職、停薪育兒的津貼都增加婦女的生育率我們也希望婦女的生育率能夠增加所以我們的人工生殖技術的補助等等\n189430\t197608\t這一些錢就是您剛講的都要錢嘛政府用大量的補助增加的補助去給他們沒錯\n199093\t222800\t那我請教一下現在你的這個所謂的少子化對策計畫294億有沒有總預算沒有那您剛講的這些補助在哪裡?錢從哪裡來?需要預算通過而且不只這個金額在未來財霸法包括依照現在的這個在野黨的版本中央會少掉4000億只剩下3600億的錢那我們剛講的這些補助\n228261\t255432\t會很難解決嗎?沒有的話那你的少子化問題就會越來越嚴重嘛你最基本的錢的補助錢不能通過的時候沒有預算沒有錢你後面的那些你講的那個風氣啦文化啦那個其實跟台灣還有很大段的距離但是眼前我們可以提高生育率我們可以提高對於孩子們的養育津貼的這個部分沒有錢啊那怎麼做?\n257154\t279766\t所以少子化這個議題它跟我們的總預算也是牽扯非常的廣泛那剛剛其實也有委員一直在講說我們不談提高生育率我們一直講留才攬才其實主委我要接下來跟您請教這個部分我是不是也請一下這個勞動部跟教育部好不好\n280507\t287436\t呃、教育部請張教次長、勞動部首長、勞動部我們一直在談留才攬才這件事啊\n290460\t316474\t剛剛這個勞動部也特別報導從8月份開始僑生可以從事旅宿業的服務工作 對不對未來我們還要增加醫院的照護輔助人力倉儲人力貨車駕駛助理以及這個客運駕駛的安全管理人力的問題我們要利用這些所謂的僑外生來增加我們的人力來補足我們的人力缺口是不是這樣這是勞動部的政策嘛\n318169\t325101\t來接下來我要請教一下到底這一些橋外生他是學生是喬生還是學工\n326311\t354300\t我為什麼會這樣問?你看明年這個教育部應該有掌握明年有三萬個私立的高中職的學生裡面每四個就有一個是所謂的僑生僑生要到台灣來上課他必須通過基礎的華語文測驗對不對?次長那個張亮次長你知道嗎?但是你知道現在這一些僑生\n357017\t383336\t來這個是監察院最新的報告我們剛剛講僑委會從103年開始擴大所謂的產學攜手合作僑生專班3加4112年的招生人數是4069人到目前為止有畢業了三屆次長您看一下這個畢業率這一些學生來念書之後他的畢業率到最新的這屆是25.51\n387130\t405049\t就說這些學生來念書可是他念到一半以後他就退學了真正能夠念到畢業的只有25%真正留在台灣的4000多人裡面真正能夠留在台灣的也不過才幾百人這到底是什麼樣的問題\n407327\t424924\t是教育的問題呢還是說你們當時招生的時候其實只是為了找一些學工來並不是真的要讓他們在這裡念書求取知識然後甚至多學一些技能來留下來我我\n425865\t440068\t我去做一個調查,包括有一篇報導他說這些孩子們其實雖然來這裡念書但他們的中文能力其實跟我們的認知是有很大的落差的來,次長\n440911\t467366\t跟委員報告其實僑委會也針對這個事情也來教育部這邊也來跟我們討論其實很重要的一個問題就是語言的適應的問題就是說他的那個語言能力所以他現在這個比較變通的辦法就是在將來他在海外設立基地都是希望說來台灣前他的那個語文能力能夠達到一定的程度可是次長他來台灣前不是已經有通過了基礎的語文測驗嗎就是A1就是次長到A1\n468507\t497594\t所以A1是很低的level就是了那他如果是這樣他來台灣比如說來台灣上課的時候學校是不是要能夠因材施教比如說你的中文程度到什麼樣的程度我應該要讓你多一點或是應該怎麼樣去教導你那你的這些僑生他有可能是在職業學校跟他的技職有相關的中文的學習專有名詞的學習是不是也應該要多一點\n498554\t519346\t還是說阿就像放牛扒那樣親菜阿來?對我想委員你的建議非常好其實我們那個僑委會的那個委員長來拜訪的時候我們就提過這個他其實語言的適應方面還有這個生活適應的方面都會相關這部分我們會一起來檢討那希望將來的那個留在台灣適應的能力、語言的能力都能夠提高\n520286\t545211\t這個其實會跟未來勞動部你要再開放各個不同的產業其實是有更正相關如果他在語言能力上面你比如說去做照護員他在語言能力的理解上是有很大的落差的話他根本沒辦法做好這個工作他當貨車的駕駛他連中文都看不懂中文字看不懂他要下高速公路要下哪一個路口要左轉右轉他都看不懂的話那你很難在這樣的一個行業裡頭去\n546604\t557912\t去達到我們要的這個人力目標所以我想這個部分可能要請勞動部跟教育部甚至僑委會都要在多方的再去配合好嗎?好,謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席我先請一下國發會請國發會劉主委好主委今天我們要來討論這個少子化的議題我想這個國發會你們最新發布的這個人口推估啊到2070年的時候我們的生產者跟老年人口的比例將到達1對不對這個是你們最新的一個版本\n你不要告訴我你沒看過是的沒錯好來那也就是說其實在臺灣的這個少子高齡化的趨勢其實是在快速的擴大當中所以如果這樣子照你們現在的推估到2070年臺灣將會減少大概903萬的人口應該是920萬我們的數字你們的數字是920萬7年\n主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n但是西歐跟美國、澳洲等等這些國家其實他們的少子化的趨勢是比較和緩請教一下你們有沒有去做過研究這些國家為什麼他們有辦法維持這樣子的生育率雖然生育率是不像台灣、韓國、新加坡、日本的生育率是這麼低\n他們有沒有什麼值得我們借鏡的地方?你們有沒有去做過研究?\n在歐美婚生子女比較少很多人不見得要結婚就生小孩了我先談到錢的部分您剛講到這個錢的部分我們的內閣其實對於少子高齡化有一些新的政策比如說我們的育兒津貼0到6歲國家一起養2.0兩歲的專班\n讓你看一下這個未來的預算增加不只是0到6歲國家跟你一起養青少年的這個預算增加了44億從教育部、衛福部到勞動部等等這個留職、停薪育兒的津貼都增加婦女的生育率我們也希望婦女的生育率能夠增加所以我們的人工生殖技術的補助等等\n這一些錢就是您剛講的都要錢嘛政府用大量的補助增加的補助去給他們沒錯\n那我請教一下現在你的這個所謂的少子化對策計畫294億有沒有總預算沒有那您剛講的這些補助在哪裡?錢從哪裡來?需要預算通過而且不只這個金額在未來財霸法包括依照現在的這個在野黨的版本中央會少掉4000億只剩下3600億的錢那我們剛講的這些補助\n會很難解決嗎?沒有的話那你的少子化問題就會越來越嚴重嘛你最基本的錢的補助錢不能通過的時候沒有預算沒有錢你後面的那些你講的那個風氣啦文化啦那個其實跟台灣還有很大段的距離但是眼前我們可以提高生育率我們可以提高對於孩子們的養育津貼的這個部分沒有錢啊那怎麼做?\n所以少子化這個議題它跟我們的總預算也是牽扯非常的廣泛那剛剛其實也有委員一直在講說我們不談提高生育率我們一直講留才攬才其實主委我要接下來跟您請教這個部分我是不是也請一下這個勞動部跟教育部好不好\n呃、教育部請張教次長、勞動部首長、勞動部我們一直在談留才攬才這件事啊\n剛剛這個勞動部也特別報導從8月份開始僑生可以從事旅宿業的服務工作 對不對未來我們還要增加醫院的照護輔助人力倉儲人力貨車駕駛助理以及這個客運駕駛的安全管理人力的問題我們要利用這些所謂的僑外生來增加我們的人力來補足我們的人力缺口是不是這樣這是勞動部的政策嘛\n來接下來我要請教一下到底這一些橋外生他是學生是喬生還是學工\n我為什麼會這樣問?你看明年這個教育部應該有掌握明年有三萬個私立的高中職的學生裡面每四個就有一個是所謂的僑生僑生要到台灣來上課他必須通過基礎的華語文測驗對不對?次長那個張亮次長你知道嗎?但是你知道現在這一些僑生\n來這個是監察院最新的報告我們剛剛講僑委會從103年開始擴大所謂的產學攜手合作僑生專班3加4112年的招生人數是4069人到目前為止有畢業了三屆次長您看一下這個畢業率這一些學生來念書之後他的畢業率到最新的這屆是25.51\n就說這些學生來念書可是他念到一半以後他就退學了真正能夠念到畢業的只有25%真正留在台灣的4000多人裡面真正能夠留在台灣的也不過才幾百人這到底是什麼樣的問題\n是教育的問題呢還是說你們當時招生的時候其實只是為了找一些學工來並不是真的要讓他們在這裡念書求取知識然後甚至多學一些技能來留下來我我\n我去做一個調查,包括有一篇報導他說這些孩子們其實雖然來這裡念書但他們的中文能力其實跟我們的認知是有很大的落差的來,次長\n跟委員報告其實僑委會也針對這個事情也來教育部這邊也來跟我們討論其實很重要的一個問題就是語言的適應的問題就是說他的那個語言能力所以他現在這個比較變通的辦法就是在將來他在海外設立基地都是希望說來台灣前他的那個語文能力能夠達到一定的程度可是次長他來台灣前不是已經有通過了基礎的語文測驗嗎就是A1就是次長到A1\n所以A1是很低的level就是了那他如果是這樣他來台灣比如說來台灣上課的時候學校是不是要能夠因材施教比如說你的中文程度到什麼樣的程度我應該要讓你多一點或是應該怎麼樣去教導你那你的這些僑生他有可能是在職業學校跟他的技職有相關的中文的學習專有名詞的學習是不是也應該要多一點\n還是說阿就像放牛扒那樣親菜阿來?對我想委員你的建議非常好其實我們那個僑委會的那個委員長來拜訪的時候我們就提過這個他其實語言的適應方面還有這個生活適應的方面都會相關這部分我們會一起來檢討那希望將來的那個留在台灣適應的能力、語言的能力都能夠提高\n這個其實會跟未來勞動部你要再開放各個不同的產業其實是有更正相關如果他在語言能力上面你比如說去做照護員他在語言能力的理解上是有很大的落差的話他根本沒辦法做好這個工作他當貨車的駕駛他連中文都看不懂中文字看不懂他要下高速公路要下哪一個路口要左轉右轉他都看不懂的話那你很難在這樣的一個行業裡頭去\n去達到我們要的這個人力目標所以我想這個部分可能要請勞動部跟教育部甚至僑委會都要在多方的再去配合好嗎?好,謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.153 --> 00:39.627\n謝謝主席我先請一下國發會請國發會劉主委好主委今天我們要來討論這個少子化的議題我想這個國發會你們最新發布的這個人口推估啊到2070年的時候我們的生產者跟老年人口的比例將到達1對不對這個是你們最新的一個版本\n\n00:40.339 --> 00:56.463\n你不要告訴我你沒看過是的沒錯好來那也就是說其實在臺灣的這個少子高齡化的趨勢其實是在快速的擴大當中所以如果這樣子照你們現在的推估到2070年臺灣將會減少大概903萬的人口應該是920萬我們的數字你們的數字是920萬7年\n\n01:06.937 --> 01:08.538\n主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n\n01:20.370 --> 01:42.290\n但是西歐跟美國、澳洲等等這些國家其實他們的少子化的趨勢是比較和緩請教一下你們有沒有去做過研究這些國家為什麼他們有辦法維持這樣子的生育率雖然生育率是不像台灣、韓國、新加坡、日本的生育率是這麼低\n\n01:43.331 --> 01:46.213\n他們有沒有什麼值得我們借鏡的地方?你們有沒有去做過研究?\n\n02:13.931 --> 02:36.762\n在歐美婚生子女比較少很多人不見得要結婚就生小孩了我先談到錢的部分您剛講到這個錢的部分我們的內閣其實對於少子高齡化有一些新的政策比如說我們的育兒津貼0到6歲國家一起養2.0兩歲的專班\n\n02:41.163 --> 03:08.449\n讓你看一下這個未來的預算增加不只是0到6歲國家跟你一起養青少年的這個預算增加了44億從教育部、衛福部到勞動部等等這個留職、停薪育兒的津貼都增加婦女的生育率我們也希望婦女的生育率能夠增加所以我們的人工生殖技術的補助等等\n\n03:09.430 --> 03:17.608\n這一些錢就是您剛講的都要錢嘛政府用大量的補助增加的補助去給他們沒錯\n\n03:19.093 --> 03:42.800\n那我請教一下現在你的這個所謂的少子化對策計畫294億有沒有總預算沒有那您剛講的這些補助在哪裡?錢從哪裡來?需要預算通過而且不只這個金額在未來財霸法包括依照現在的這個在野黨的版本中央會少掉4000億只剩下3600億的錢那我們剛講的這些補助\n\n03:48.261 --> 04:15.432\n會很難解決嗎?沒有的話那你的少子化問題就會越來越嚴重嘛你最基本的錢的補助錢不能通過的時候沒有預算沒有錢你後面的那些你講的那個風氣啦文化啦那個其實跟台灣還有很大段的距離但是眼前我們可以提高生育率我們可以提高對於孩子們的養育津貼的這個部分沒有錢啊那怎麼做?\n\n04:17.154 --> 04:39.766\n所以少子化這個議題它跟我們的總預算也是牽扯非常的廣泛那剛剛其實也有委員一直在講說我們不談提高生育率我們一直講留才攬才其實主委我要接下來跟您請教這個部分我是不是也請一下這個勞動部跟教育部好不好\n\n04:40.507 --> 04:47.436\n呃、教育部請張教次長、勞動部首長、勞動部我們一直在談留才攬才這件事啊\n\n04:50.460 --> 05:16.474\n剛剛這個勞動部也特別報導從8月份開始僑生可以從事旅宿業的服務工作對不對未來我們還要增加醫院的照護輔助人力倉儲人力貨車駕駛助理以及這個客運駕駛的安全管理人力的問題我們要利用這些所謂的僑外生來增加我們的人力來補足我們的人力缺口是不是這樣這是勞動部的政策嘛\n\n05:18.169 --> 05:25.101\n來接下來我要請教一下到底這一些橋外生他是學生是喬生還是學工\n\n05:26.311 --> 05:54.300\n我為什麼會這樣問?你看明年這個教育部應該有掌握明年有三萬個私立的高中職的學生裡面每四個就有一個是所謂的僑生僑生要到台灣來上課他必須通過基礎的華語文測驗對不對?次長那個張亮次長你知道嗎?但是你知道現在這一些僑生\n\n05:57.017 --> 06:23.336\n來這個是監察院最新的報告我們剛剛講僑委會從103年開始擴大所謂的產學攜手合作僑生專班3加4112年的招生人數是4069人到目前為止有畢業了三屆次長您看一下這個畢業率這一些學生來念書之後他的畢業率到最新的這屆是25.51\n\n06:27.130 --> 06:45.049\n就說這些學生來念書可是他念到一半以後他就退學了真正能夠念到畢業的只有25%真正留在台灣的4000多人裡面真正能夠留在台灣的也不過才幾百人這到底是什麼樣的問題\n\n06:47.327 --> 07:04.924\n是教育的問題呢還是說你們當時招生的時候其實只是為了找一些學工來並不是真的要讓他們在這裡念書求取知識然後甚至多學一些技能來留下來我我\n\n07:05.865 --> 07:20.068\n我去做一個調查,包括有一篇報導他說這些孩子們其實雖然來這裡念書但他們的中文能力其實跟我們的認知是有很大的落差的來,次長\n\n07:20.911 --> 07:47.366\n跟委員報告其實僑委會也針對這個事情也來教育部這邊也來跟我們討論其實很重要的一個問題就是語言的適應的問題就是說他的那個語言能力所以他現在這個比較變通的辦法就是在將來他在海外設立基地都是希望說來台灣前他的那個語文能力能夠達到一定的程度可是次長他來台灣前不是已經有通過了基礎的語文測驗嗎就是A1就是次長到A1\n\n07:48.507 --> 08:17.594\n所以A1是很低的level就是了那他如果是這樣他來台灣比如說來台灣上課的時候學校是不是要能夠因材施教比如說你的中文程度到什麼樣的程度我應該要讓你多一點或是應該怎麼樣去教導你那你的這些僑生他有可能是在職業學校跟他的技職有相關的中文的學習專有名詞的學習是不是也應該要多一點\n\n08:18.554 --> 08:39.346\n還是說阿就像放牛扒那樣親菜阿來?對我想委員你的建議非常好其實我們那個僑委會的那個委員長來拜訪的時候我們就提過這個他其實語言的適應方面還有這個生活適應的方面都會相關這部分我們會一起來檢討那希望將來的那個留在台灣適應的能力、語言的能力都能夠提高\n\n08:40.286 --> 09:05.211\n這個其實會跟未來勞動部你要再開放各個不同的產業其實是有更正相關如果他在語言能力上面你比如說去做照護員他在語言能力的理解上是有很大的落差的話他根本沒辦法做好這個工作他當貨車的駕駛他連中文都看不懂中文字看不懂他要下高速公路要下哪一個路口要左轉右轉他都看不懂的話那你很難在這樣的一個行業裡頭去\n\n09:06.604 --> 09:17.912\n去達到我們要的這個人力目標所以我想這個部分可能要請勞動部跟教育部甚至僑委會都要在多方的再去配合好嗎?好,謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.153,"end":39.627,"text":"謝謝主席我先請一下國發會請國發會劉主委好主委今天我們要來討論這個少子化的議題我想這個國發會你們最新發布的這個人口推估啊到2070年的時候我們的生產者跟老年人口的比例將到達1對不對這個是你們最新的一個版本"},{"start":40.339,"end":56.463,"text":"你不要告訴我你沒看過是的沒錯好來那也就是說其實在臺灣的這個少子高齡化的趨勢其實是在快速的擴大當中所以如果這樣子照你們現在的推估到2070年臺灣將會減少大概903萬的人口應該是920萬我們的數字你們的數字是920萬7年"},{"start":66.937,"end":68.538,"text":"主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會"},{"start":80.37,"end":102.29,"text":"但是西歐跟美國、澳洲等等這些國家其實他們的少子化的趨勢是比較和緩請教一下你們有沒有去做過研究這些國家為什麼他們有辦法維持這樣子的生育率雖然生育率是不像台灣、韓國、新加坡、日本的生育率是這麼低"},{"start":103.331,"end":106.213,"text":"他們有沒有什麼值得我們借鏡的地方?你們有沒有去做過研究?"},{"start":133.931,"end":156.762,"text":"在歐美婚生子女比較少很多人不見得要結婚就生小孩了我先談到錢的部分您剛講到這個錢的部分我們的內閣其實對於少子高齡化有一些新的政策比如說我們的育兒津貼0到6歲國家一起養2.0兩歲的專班"},{"start":161.163,"end":188.449,"text":"讓你看一下這個未來的預算增加不只是0到6歲國家跟你一起養青少年的這個預算增加了44億從教育部、衛福部到勞動部等等這個留職、停薪育兒的津貼都增加婦女的生育率我們也希望婦女的生育率能夠增加所以我們的人工生殖技術的補助等等"},{"start":189.43,"end":197.608,"text":"這一些錢就是您剛講的都要錢嘛政府用大量的補助增加的補助去給他們沒錯"},{"start":199.093,"end":222.8,"text":"那我請教一下現在你的這個所謂的少子化對策計畫294億有沒有總預算沒有那您剛講的這些補助在哪裡?錢從哪裡來?需要預算通過而且不只這個金額在未來財霸法包括依照現在的這個在野黨的版本中央會少掉4000億只剩下3600億的錢那我們剛講的這些補助"},{"start":228.261,"end":255.432,"text":"會很難解決嗎?沒有的話那你的少子化問題就會越來越嚴重嘛你最基本的錢的補助錢不能通過的時候沒有預算沒有錢你後面的那些你講的那個風氣啦文化啦那個其實跟台灣還有很大段的距離但是眼前我們可以提高生育率我們可以提高對於孩子們的養育津貼的這個部分沒有錢啊那怎麼做?"},{"start":257.154,"end":279.766,"text":"所以少子化這個議題它跟我們的總預算也是牽扯非常的廣泛那剛剛其實也有委員一直在講說我們不談提高生育率我們一直講留才攬才其實主委我要接下來跟您請教這個部分我是不是也請一下這個勞動部跟教育部好不好"},{"start":280.507,"end":287.436,"text":"呃、教育部請張教次長、勞動部首長、勞動部我們一直在談留才攬才這件事啊"},{"start":290.46,"end":316.474,"text":"剛剛這個勞動部也特別報導從8月份開始僑生可以從事旅宿業的服務工作 對不對未來我們還要增加醫院的照護輔助人力倉儲人力貨車駕駛助理以及這個客運駕駛的安全管理人力的問題我們要利用這些所謂的僑外生來增加我們的人力來補足我們的人力缺口是不是這樣這是勞動部的政策嘛"},{"start":318.169,"end":325.101,"text":"來接下來我要請教一下到底這一些橋外生他是學生是喬生還是學工"},{"start":326.311,"end":354.3,"text":"我為什麼會這樣問?你看明年這個教育部應該有掌握明年有三萬個私立的高中職的學生裡面每四個就有一個是所謂的僑生僑生要到台灣來上課他必須通過基礎的華語文測驗對不對?次長那個張亮次長你知道嗎?但是你知道現在這一些僑生"},{"start":357.017,"end":383.336,"text":"來這個是監察院最新的報告我們剛剛講僑委會從103年開始擴大所謂的產學攜手合作僑生專班3加4112年的招生人數是4069人到目前為止有畢業了三屆次長您看一下這個畢業率這一些學生來念書之後他的畢業率到最新的這屆是25.51"},{"start":387.13,"end":405.049,"text":"就說這些學生來念書可是他念到一半以後他就退學了真正能夠念到畢業的只有25%真正留在台灣的4000多人裡面真正能夠留在台灣的也不過才幾百人這到底是什麼樣的問題"},{"start":407.327,"end":424.924,"text":"是教育的問題呢還是說你們當時招生的時候其實只是為了找一些學工來並不是真的要讓他們在這裡念書求取知識然後甚至多學一些技能來留下來我我"},{"start":425.865,"end":440.068,"text":"我去做一個調查,包括有一篇報導他說這些孩子們其實雖然來這裡念書但他們的中文能力其實跟我們的認知是有很大的落差的來,次長"},{"start":440.911,"end":467.366,"text":"跟委員報告其實僑委會也針對這個事情也來教育部這邊也來跟我們討論其實很重要的一個問題就是語言的適應的問題就是說他的那個語言能力所以他現在這個比較變通的辦法就是在將來他在海外設立基地都是希望說來台灣前他的那個語文能力能夠達到一定的程度可是次長他來台灣前不是已經有通過了基礎的語文測驗嗎就是A1就是次長到A1"},{"start":468.507,"end":497.594,"text":"所以A1是很低的level就是了那他如果是這樣他來台灣比如說來台灣上課的時候學校是不是要能夠因材施教比如說你的中文程度到什麼樣的程度我應該要讓你多一點或是應該怎麼樣去教導你那你的這些僑生他有可能是在職業學校跟他的技職有相關的中文的學習專有名詞的學習是不是也應該要多一點"},{"start":498.554,"end":519.346,"text":"還是說阿就像放牛扒那樣親菜阿來?對我想委員你的建議非常好其實我們那個僑委會的那個委員長來拜訪的時候我們就提過這個他其實語言的適應方面還有這個生活適應的方面都會相關這部分我們會一起來檢討那希望將來的那個留在台灣適應的能力、語言的能力都能夠提高"},{"start":520.286,"end":545.211,"text":"這個其實會跟未來勞動部你要再開放各個不同的產業其實是有更正相關如果他在語言能力上面你比如說去做照護員他在語言能力的理解上是有很大的落差的話他根本沒辦法做好這個工作他當貨車的駕駛他連中文都看不懂中文字看不懂他要下高速公路要下哪一個路口要左轉右轉他都看不懂的話那你很難在這樣的一個行業裡頭去"},{"start":546.604,"end":557.912,"text":"去達到我們要的這個人力目標所以我想這個部分可能要請勞動部跟教育部甚至僑委會都要在多方的再去配合好嗎?好,謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":137,"blocks":[["邱委員議瑩：（9時41分）謝謝主席，我先請一下國發會。"],["主席：請國發會劉主委。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：委員早。"],["邱委員議瑩：主委，今天我們要討論少子化的議題，依據國發會最新發布的人口推估，到2070年的時候，我們生產者跟老年人口的比例將到達1，對不對？這個是你們最新的版本，你不要告訴我你沒看過喔！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的，沒錯。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，也就是說，臺灣的少子、高齡化趨勢其實是在快速的擴大當中，如果照你們現在的推估，到2070年，臺灣將會減少大概903萬的人口。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：應該是920萬，我們的數字。"],["邱委員議瑩：你們的數字是920萬，不是……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對啊，青壯年是920萬，沒錯。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，那這個圖表我要再修改一下。主委，少子化應該也是全球的趨勢，但是西歐跟美國、澳洲等等這些國家，他們的少子化趨勢其實是比較和緩。請教一下，你們有沒有去做過研究，這些國家為什麼有辦法維持這樣的生育率？事實上他們的生育率不像臺灣、韓國、新加坡、日本的生育率是這麼低，他們有沒有什麼值得我們借鏡的地方，你們有沒有去做過研究？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們有去研究，分成兩個部分，一個是風氣的部分，一個是政策的部分，政策部分其實坦白講，我們兩個禮拜前還有探討了一次，如果我們要做到比較極致的話，我們其實試算了三個版本，都需要錢，分別從五百多億到一千多億。另外一個是文化的部分，文化部分是我們現在的婚生子女占97.5%，在歐美，婚生子女比較少一點，就是很多人不見得要結婚就生小孩啦，我們現在出現一個問題……"],["邱委員議瑩：來，我先談到錢的部分，主委，您剛剛講到錢的部分，我們的內閣其實對於少子高齡化有一些新的政策，比如我們的育兒津貼，0到6歲國家一起養2.0，2歲專班，你看一下，未來的預算增加，不只是0到6歲國家跟你一起養，青少年的預算也增加了44億，從教育部、衛福部到勞動部等等都有，包括留職停薪、育兒津貼都增加。另外，我們希望婦女的生育率能夠增加，所以也補助人工生殖技術等等這一些錢，就是您剛剛講的，都要錢嘛，政府用大量的補助、增加的補助去給他們……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：沒錯。"],["邱委員議瑩：那我請教一下，現在你這個所謂少子化對策計畫的294億有沒有？總預算沒有，那您剛剛講的這些補助在哪裡？錢從哪裡來？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：需要預算通過，而且不只這個金額，包括社宅也是……"],["邱委員議瑩：未來財劃法如果依照現在野黨的版本，中央會少掉4,000億喔，只剩下3,600億的錢，我們剛剛講的這些補助的錢要從哪裡來？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：會很難解決，這個可能要……"],["邱委員議瑩：沒有的話，那少子化問題就會越來越嚴重嘛，最基本的錢的補助，錢不能通過的時候，沒有預算、沒有錢，後面的那些，你講的風氣、文化，那個其實跟臺灣還有很大段的距離，但是眼前我們可以提高生育率，我們可以提高對孩子們的養育津貼的這個部分，沒有錢啊，那怎麼做？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：沒錯。"],["邱委員議瑩：所以少子化這個議題跟我們的總預算也是牽扯非常的廣泛，剛剛其實也有委員一直在說我們不談提高生育率，我們一直講留才、攬才，其實主委，接下來我要跟您請教的這個部分，我是不是也請一下勞動部跟教育部，好不好？"],["主席：請教育部張廖次長、勞動部黃副署長。"],["邱委員議瑩：次長、副署長，我們一直在談留才、攬才這件事，剛剛勞動部也特別報告，從8月份開始僑生可以從事旅宿業的服務工作嘛，未來我們還要增加醫院的照護輔佐人力、倉儲人力、貨車駕駛及助理人力，以及客運駕駛及安全管理人力的問題，我們要利用這些所謂的僑外生來增加人力，補足我們的人力缺口，是不是這樣？"],["黃副署長齡玉：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：這是勞動部的政策嘛。接下來我要請教一下，到底這一些僑外生是學生、是僑生，還是學工？我為什麼會這樣問，這個教育部應該有掌握，明年3萬個私立高中職的學生裡面，每四個就有一個是所謂的僑生，僑生要到臺灣來上課必須通過基礎的華語文測驗嘛，對不對？張廖次長，您知道嘛。"],["張廖次長萬堅：是的，沒有錯。"],["邱委員議瑩：但是你知道現在這些僑生，這個是監察院最新的報告，我們剛剛講僑委會從103年開始擴大所謂「產學攜手合作僑生專班（3+4）」，112年的招生人數是4,069人，到目前為止畢業了三屆，次長，您看一下，這些學生來臺灣念書之後的畢業率，到最新的這一屆是25.51%喔，就是說這些學生來念書，可是他念到一半以後就退學了，真正能夠念到畢業的只有25%，真正留在臺灣的，四千多人裡面真正能夠留在臺灣的也不過才幾百人，這到底是什麼樣的問題？是教育的問題嗎？還是說你們當時招生的時候其實只是為了找一些學工來，並不是真的要讓他們在這裡念書求取知識，甚至多學一些技能然後留下來。我去做了一個調查，包括有一篇報導，它說這些孩子們雖然是來這裡念書，但他們的中文能力跟我們的認知其實是有很大落差的，次長？"],["張廖次長萬堅：跟委員報告，僑委會針對這個事情也來教育部這邊跟我們討論，其實很重要的一個問題就是語言的適應問題，就是他的語言能力，所以現在比較變通的辦法就是將來在海外設立基地，希望在來臺灣前，他們的那語文能力能夠達到一定程度，或者……"],["邱委員議瑩：次長，他來臺灣前不是已經有通過基礎的語文測驗嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：就是A1，至少到A1。"],["邱委員議瑩：所以A1是很低的level就是了？如果是這樣，他來臺灣上課的時候，學校是不是要能夠因材施教？比如說你的中文到什麼樣的程度，我應該要讓你多一點或應該怎麼樣去教導你，這些僑生有可能是在職業學校，那麼跟他的技職相關的中文學習、專有名詞的學習是不是也應該要多一點，還是說就像放牛班那樣隨便了啦？"],["張廖次長萬堅：委員，你的建議非常好，其實僑委會委員長來拜訪的時候，我們就有提過這個，其實語言的適應方面，還有生活適應的方面都會相關，這部分我們會一起來檢討，希望將來留在臺灣的人，適應能力及語言能力都能夠提高。"],["邱委員議瑩：所以這個其實會跟未來勞動部要開放各個不同的產業是更正相關喔，如果他在語言能力上面，比如說去做照護員，他在語言能力的理解上是有很大落差的話，他根本沒辦法做好這個工作；他要當貨車的駕駛，他連中文字都看不懂，要下高速公路或要下哪一個路口、要左轉右轉都看不懂的話，那很難在這樣一個行業裡頭去達到我們要的人力目標，所以我想這個部分可能要請勞動部跟教育部，甚至僑委會，都要多方的再去配合，好嗎？"],["黃副署長齡玉：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝邱議瑩委員，請各位回座。","下一位質詢請呂玉玲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":224,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-8","speakers":["邱志偉","林岱樺","邱議瑩","呂玉玲","張啓楷","張嘉郡","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鄭正鈐","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯","陳超明","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","陳菁徽","賴惠員","羅美玲","陳培瑜","蔡易餘","林月琴","翁曉玲","張雅琳","吳春城"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1138901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138901_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、衛生福利部首長、教育部首長、勞動部首長就「我國少子女\n化現況及對策計畫成效，暨我國與亞鄰國家之留才攬才政策競爭力比較」進行報告，並備質詢；\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、行政院人事行政總處首長就「我國少子女化對策主管單位與\n主要國家做法之比較，暨我國參採改制之可行性」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138901_00003"}}}