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{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 571.154, \"end\": 571.174, \"score\": 0.006}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 571.174, \"end\": 571.194, \"score\": 0.151}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 571.194, \"end\": 571.214, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 589.602, \"end\": 589.763, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 589.763, \"end\": 589.883, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 589.883, \"end\": 589.903, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,109 --> 00:00:12,794\n好我們有很多問題想跟你討論來下一頁在今年的3月7號當時故宮的業務報告裡面我就跟院長討論了關於兒童暨青年事務推動諮詢會的進度當時院長你笑了\n\n2\n00:00:15,875 --> 00:00:37,171\n當時我提醒院長只有研究生跟大學生其實代表性不足而且兒少的聲音不應該只有研究生跟大學生我們目前在最近度我們看到增加兩名高中生這個部分我要先給予肯定可是詳細的細節我想要再跟院長多加討論我想問一下目前這些學生代表所產生的方法是什麼\n\n3\n00:00:37,751 --> 00:00:42,481\n那還有就是他們開會的頻率還有就是他們可以參與到什麼樣層級的會議參與到什麼樣層級的討論這個部分我想要請院長說明一下\n\n4\n00:00:49,144 --> 00:01:13,032\n當然就是執行會的話是一個例會那例會的話討論的話就是對故宮的一些建議那當然就是說我們也有辦理因為不是只有這樣的一個活動而是我們有青少年大使有校園大使那這些培訓活動的話他們會回到學校裡面去辦一些活動那相關的資料的話我想我們可以送給委員這邊\n\n5\n00:01:16,296 --> 00:01:41,236\n親資會跟校園大使基本上是兩回事喔因為親資會原本的設定是希望故宮的很多事情如果他的牽扯層面是跟更多社會大眾有關我們可以透過親資會去聽到這些兒少代表的聲音跟透過你們的培力工作方或是透過相關演習進入校園推廣故宮的藝文活動這是兩回事我要問的是親資會組成方法招募的方法還有目前開會的狀況\n\n6\n00:01:44,335 --> 00:01:46,626\n還是我們請你們的同仁回答好了好不好\n\n7\n00:01:48,005 --> 00:02:13,678\n跟委員說一個說明親子會的部分的委員的部分因為有很多的一些青少年的部分從兒童因為北院的部分從兒童的部分開始就有做不同的一些教育推廣活動所以在這個期間的部分有很多的名單的部分那我們會請我們展幅處的同仁這邊做一些推薦的部分他如果說相對的對於這一些議文的部分有一些\n\n8\n00:02:14,218 --> 00:02:26,165\n而吸引力的部分他們就會列入這個名單裡面來進行那所以我們也會按照這樣的方式去處理這個部分的學生的參與的部分這是甄選的方法那他們開會的頻率跟開會的內容跟成績可以到什麼樣的成績開會的頻率的話原則上我們是一年兩次可是我們的開會的頻率會依照我們的需求的部分會不斷的一個滾動式的修正\n\n9\n00:02:38,052 --> 00:02:44,277\n從3月到現在目前你們給我們的名單上這9名同學已經開過會了嗎他們已經開過第一次的會議然後另外的話我們有關一些展覽的部分或者是教育推廣的活動有關於青少年的部分我們都會邀請他們來參與那他們的部分會依照他們實際喜愛的狀況跟他們的出勤的有需求的部分他們會來參與的部分有時候會來看展覽有時候會參與教育推廣活動\n\n10\n00:03:05,733 --> 00:03:28,709\n您又岔題了啦,我要問的是親子會,你們不要一直扯到活動,因為看起來你們對親子會的認定跟這個定位還是搞不清楚推廣活動是另外一回事,但是親子會如何從他們參與你們的活動提供給你們在策展方面的意見在企劃方面的意見,因為從前面好幾位委員都問到故宮參觀的人次一直都沒有上升,而且相關的狀況越來越不好\n\n11\n00:03:29,409 --> 00:03:46,162\n如果兒少確實是一個我們未來要服務的重點對象那請聽他們的聲音看見他們的需求或是理解他們對故宮的想像因為完全是不同世代我相信他們親自會所能夠提出來的聲音跟代表性絕對可以讓你們作為參考甚至我剛聽到你們說選出來的方法是透過已經來參加故宮活動的兒少裡面然後你們同仁去看然後就問他有沒有意願這個我覺得聽起來有點\n\n12\n00:03:57,051 --> 00:04:19,923\n怪怪的我不知道你自己感覺如何為什麼會說怪怪的你覺得呢跟委員做一個說明這個第4屆的部分其實他們已經參加過會議了親資會的部分他已經召開過會議了那我們也是希望能藉由不同的推廣活動讓他們更加的了解所以我們才會還是沒有回答我的問題可是今天主席絕對不會給我們超時那我要講我要講我之前主席不好意思\n\n13\n00:04:20,683 --> 00:04:35,532\n之前我一直跟院長討論親子會它的重點意義是什麼看起來故宮還是沒有記得我再念一次CRC的兒少表議權裡面提到兒少擁有就影響其本身之所有事物可以自由表達他的意見的權利當然這並不是只是單純的讓兒少參與而已更重要的是要讓不同年齡層\n\n14\n00:04:43,257 --> 00:04:52,994\n不同境遇的而少都能夠以適當的形式表達自己的意見同時政府機關人員也都應該要認真對待並積極的予以聆聽\n\n15\n00:04:55,518 --> 00:05:23,713\n這個是我要主張的耳上表一拳因為我們談論說那個到底什麼層級的話基本上來講的話親自會開會的時候院長跟兩位副院長跟相關的所有的那個主管都在場等一下等一下院長你又搞錯我的意思了關鍵不是誰跟他們開會而是他們到底可以對故宮裡面什麼樣的事情表達他們的看法跟想像他們對故宮的所有事情的話我們都盡量要求他們可以提供他們自己的看法\n\n16\n00:05:24,153 --> 00:05:47,675\n但是你還是沒有回答我例如說他們已經開過一次會他們講了什麼或者是你們規劃他們要做什麼事情我花了快要6分鐘的時間讓故宮可以好好回答這個問題我還有別的題目但是我相信在場人應該都聽得出來我所主張的兒少表意權而且這不是我主張這是聯合國台灣兒童人權公約國內法制化之後我們台灣所有主管機關都必須要積極面對的問題\n\n17\n00:05:49,497 --> 00:06:07,715\n但是我一直在說我們把兒少邀請進故宮的委員會諮詢委員會有一個很重要的關鍵就是假設未來的觀眾群就是他們而他們現在如果沒有機會透過各種管道認識故宮那我們如何能夠期待故宮未來參觀的人次能夠逐漸提升\n\n18\n00:06:08,456 --> 00:06:34,587\n那我都不要去談少子化的議題我要講的是我認為故宮在這件事情上的態度真的是相對消極那不管是一年兩次會三次會四次會或者是開會的成績甚至招募的方法我覺得剛剛讓故宮這樣回答我聽起來都還有全面檢討的可能性也要拜託院長跟相關的幕僚要積極檢討我可以進入下一題嗎那這個部分我會持續追蹤好謝謝院長接下來我要談故宮的競爭力我們來看一下相關數字\n\n19\n00:06:38,018 --> 00:06:57,920\n把故宮的南院跟北院加起來都還輸台灣其他前三名的博物館那更不要講在疫情後所有的相關博物館的人數都上升我之前就已經跟院長舉過一個例子當時我就已經預告說齊美博物館他們即將舉行的那個拉菲爾道範古的這個展\n\n20\n00:06:58,871 --> 00:07:05,773\n一定會帶動非常多人潮因為光是網路上的賣票就已經不得了了後來我們實際去把相關數字調出來從5月開始他們從每個月4月的3萬多4萬多從5月開始一策展到13萬6月15萬7月16萬8月來到19萬\n\n21\n00:07:15,776 --> 00:07:16,036\n議員長你怎麼看?\n\n22\n00:07:33,310 --> 00:07:55,743\n基本上來講的話我自己個人覺得故宮這兩年來的展覽辦得非常好那當然就是沒有錯就是說一個焦點的展覽的話可以吸引到更多的群眾譬如說像那個齊美的話是有跟英國NationalGallery那高美館的話是有跟TED就是說有一個國外的重要展覽的話基本上來講對國內的感覺是有一些新的\n\n23\n00:07:59,125 --> 00:08:22,860\n你們自己已經測了一個大美不言然後也謝謝故宮的導覽帶我們去看了我們來看大美不言下一頁故宮這個大展院長你認為它完全符合你剛剛講的國際重要企劃策展而且呢這個展我們去看了我們發現例如說以這張照片這個是在講書證我們發現不是只有法國來的書證其實還有故宮自己典藏的\n\n24\n00:08:23,300 --> 00:08:40,051\n那兩邊做了很好的呼應跟契合我個人認為這個展不僅光線設計好展示櫃設計的也好中外文物相互呼應古今展品對照但是我們後來聽了故宮的同仁跟我們分享這裡面有非常多法國人的idea在裡頭那我覺得有這樣的交流合作真的很好\n\n25\n00:08:41,132 --> 00:09:04,150\n院長如同你剛剛說的如果有主題有國際的量能進來我們可以吸引到更多的人那院長你自己期待這個大美不言可以為故宮帶來什麼樣的注意在人次參觀人次上參觀人數上面的話其實在故宮少有排隊的人潮除了翠白菜肉形石的話這個展覽是排隊的要抽那個號碼牌\n\n26\n00:09:06,713 --> 00:09:29,854\n我覺得這個部分要給同仁鼓勵啦好不好院長你要不要公開給你的同仁在這個議題上的努力這個企劃上的努力當然我剛剛已經一直講過了就是這兩年的話這兩年當然是我認後認前的話我不敢批評這兩年的話災難真的做得很好同仁在策展方面非常用心那如果他們策展很用心可是人次卻起不來會不會是我們相關宣傳有一些困境需要共同去面對\n\n27\n00:09:31,154 --> 00:09:31,214\n對,我...我們...我們...\n\n28\n00:09:49,602 --> 00:09:49,903\n謝謝院長謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n109\t12794\t好我們有很多問題想跟你討論來下一頁在今年的3月7號當時故宮的業務報告裡面我就跟院長討論了關於兒童暨青年事務推動諮詢會的進度當時院長你笑了\n15875\t37171\t當時我提醒院長只有研究生跟大學生其實代表性不足而且兒少的聲音不應該只有研究生跟大學生我們目前在最近度我們看到增加兩名高中生這個部分我要先給予肯定可是詳細的細節我想要再跟院長多加討論我想問一下目前這些學生代表所產生的方法是什麼\n37751\t42481\t那還有就是他們開會的頻率還有就是他們可以參與到什麼樣層級的會議參與到什麼樣層級的討論這個部分我想要請院長說明一下\n49144\t73032\t當然就是執行會的話是一個例會那例會的話討論的話就是對故宮的一些建議那當然就是說我們也有辦理因為不是只有這樣的一個活動而是我們有青少年大使有校園大使那這些培訓活動的話他們會回到學校裡面去辦一些活動那相關的資料的話我想我們可以送給委員這邊\n76296\t101236\t親資會跟校園大使基本上是兩回事喔因為親資會原本的設定是希望故宮的很多事情如果他的牽扯層面是跟更多社會大眾有關我們可以透過親資會去聽到這些兒少代表的聲音跟透過你們的培力工作方或是透過相關演習進入校園推廣故宮的藝文活動這是兩回事我要問的是親資會組成方法招募的方法還有目前開會的狀況\n104335\t106626\t還是我們請你們的同仁回答好了好不好\n108005\t133678\t跟委員說一個說明親子會的部分的委員的部分因為有很多的一些青少年的部分從兒童因為北院的部分從兒童的部分開始就有做不同的一些教育推廣活動所以在這個期間的部分有很多的名單的部分那我們會請我們展幅處的同仁這邊做一些推薦的部分他如果說相對的對於這一些議文的部分有一些\n134218\t146165\t而吸引力的部分他們就會列入這個名單裡面來進行那所以我們也會按照這樣的方式去處理這個部分的學生的參與的部分這是甄選的方法那他們開會的頻率跟開會的內容跟成績可以到什麼樣的成績開會的頻率的話原則上我們是一年兩次可是我們的開會的頻率會依照我們的需求的部分會不斷的一個滾動式的修正\n158052\t164277\t從3月到現在目前你們給我們的名單上這9名同學已經開過會了嗎他們已經開過第一次的會議然後另外的話我們有關一些展覽的部分或者是教育推廣的活動有關於青少年的部分我們都會邀請他們來參與那他們的部分會依照他們實際喜愛的狀況跟他們的出勤的有需求的部分他們會來參與的部分有時候會來看展覽有時候會參與教育推廣活動\n185733\t208709\t您又岔題了啦,我要問的是親子會,你們不要一直扯到活動,因為看起來你們對親子會的認定跟這個定位還是搞不清楚推廣活動是另外一回事,但是親子會如何從他們參與你們的活動提供給你們在策展方面的意見在企劃方面的意見,因為從前面好幾位委員都問到故宮參觀的人次一直都沒有上升,而且相關的狀況越來越不好\n209409\t226162\t如果兒少確實是一個我們未來要服務的重點對象那請聽他們的聲音看見他們的需求或是理解他們對故宮的想像因為完全是不同世代我相信他們親自會所能夠提出來的聲音跟代表性絕對可以讓你們作為參考甚至我剛聽到你們說選出來的方法是透過已經來參加故宮活動的兒少裡面然後你們同仁去看然後就問他有沒有意願這個我覺得聽起來有點\n237051\t259923\t怪怪的我不知道你自己感覺如何為什麼會說怪怪的你覺得呢跟委員做一個說明這個第4屆的部分其實他們已經參加過會議了親資會的部分他已經召開過會議了那我們也是希望能藉由不同的推廣活動讓他們更加的了解所以我們才會還是沒有回答我的問題可是今天主席絕對不會給我們超時那我要講我要講我之前主席不好意思\n260683\t275532\t之前我一直跟院長討論親子會它的重點意義是什麼看起來故宮還是沒有記得我再念一次CRC的兒少表議權裡面提到兒少擁有就影響其本身之所有事物可以自由表達他的意見的權利當然這並不是只是單純的讓兒少參與而已更重要的是要讓不同年齡層\n283257\t292994\t不同境遇的而少都能夠以適當的形式表達自己的意見同時政府機關人員也都應該要認真對待並積極的予以聆聽\n295518\t323713\t這個是我要主張的耳上表一拳因為我們談論說那個到底什麼層級的話基本上來講的話親自會開會的時候院長跟兩位副院長跟相關的所有的那個主管都在場等一下等一下院長你又搞錯我的意思了關鍵不是誰跟他們開會而是他們到底可以對故宮裡面什麼樣的事情表達他們的看法跟想像他們對故宮的所有事情的話我們都盡量要求他們可以提供他們自己的看法\n324153\t347675\t但是你還是沒有回答我例如說他們已經開過一次會他們講了什麼或者是你們規劃他們要做什麼事情我花了快要6分鐘的時間讓故宮可以好好回答這個問題我還有別的題目但是我相信在場人應該都聽得出來我所主張的兒少表意權而且這不是我主張這是聯合國台灣兒童人權公約國內法制化之後我們台灣所有主管機關都必須要積極面對的問題\n349497\t367715\t但是我一直在說我們把兒少邀請進故宮的委員會諮詢委員會有一個很重要的關鍵就是假設未來的觀眾群就是他們而他們現在如果沒有機會透過各種管道認識故宮那我們如何能夠期待故宮未來參觀的人次能夠逐漸提升\n368456\t394587\t那我都不要去談少子化的議題我要講的是我認為故宮在這件事情上的態度真的是相對消極那不管是一年兩次會三次會四次會或者是開會的成績甚至招募的方法我覺得剛剛讓故宮這樣回答我聽起來都還有全面檢討的可能性也要拜託院長跟相關的幕僚要積極檢討我可以進入下一題嗎那這個部分我會持續追蹤好謝謝院長接下來我要談故宮的競爭力我們來看一下相關數字\n398018\t417920\t把故宮的南院跟北院加起來都還輸台灣其他前三名的博物館那更不要講在疫情後所有的相關博物館的人數都上升我之前就已經跟院長舉過一個例子當時我就已經預告說齊美博物館他們即將舉行的那個拉菲爾道範古的這個展\n418871\t425773\t一定會帶動非常多人潮因為光是網路上的賣票就已經不得了了後來我們實際去把相關數字調出來從5月開始他們從每個月4月的3萬多4萬多從5月開始一策展到13萬6月15萬7月16萬8月來到19萬\n435776\t436036\t議員長你怎麼看?\n453310\t475743\t基本上來講的話我自己個人覺得故宮這兩年來的展覽辦得非常好那當然就是沒有錯就是說一個焦點的展覽的話可以吸引到更多的群眾譬如說像那個齊美的話是有跟英國National Gallery那高美館的話是有跟TED就是說有一個國外的重要展覽的話基本上來講對國內的感覺是有一些新的\n479125\t502860\t你們自己已經測了一個大美不言然後也謝謝故宮的導覽帶我們去看了我們來看大美不言下一頁故宮這個大展院長你認為它完全符合你剛剛講的國際重要企劃策展而且呢這個展我們去看了我們發現例如說以這張照片這個是在講書證我們發現不是只有法國來的書證其實還有故宮自己典藏的\n503300\t520051\t那兩邊做了很好的呼應跟契合我個人認為這個展不僅光線設計好展示櫃設計的也好中外文物相互呼應古今展品對照但是我們後來聽了故宮的同仁跟我們分享這裡面有非常多法國人的idea在裡頭那我覺得有這樣的交流合作真的很好\n521132\t544150\t院長如同你剛剛說的如果有主題有國際的量能進來我們可以吸引到更多的人那院長你自己期待這個大美不言可以為故宮帶來什麼樣的注意在人次參觀人次上參觀人數上面的話其實在故宮少有排隊的人潮除了翠白菜肉形石的話這個展覽是排隊的要抽那個號碼牌\n546713\t569854\t我覺得這個部分要給同仁鼓勵啦好不好院長你要不要公開給你的同仁在這個議題上的努力這個企劃上的努力當然我剛剛已經一直講過了就是這兩年的話這兩年當然是我認後認前的話我不敢批評這兩年的話災難真的做得很好同仁在策展方面非常用心那如果他們策展很用心可是人次卻起不來會不會是我們相關宣傳有一些困境需要共同去面對\n571154\t571214\t對,我...我們...我們...\n589602\t589903\t謝謝院長謝謝主席謝謝\n","txt":"好我們有很多問題想跟你討論來下一頁在今年的3月7號當時故宮的業務報告裡面我就跟院長討論了關於兒童暨青年事務推動諮詢會的進度當時院長你笑了\n當時我提醒院長只有研究生跟大學生其實代表性不足而且兒少的聲音不應該只有研究生跟大學生我們目前在最近度我們看到增加兩名高中生這個部分我要先給予肯定可是詳細的細節我想要再跟院長多加討論我想問一下目前這些學生代表所產生的方法是什麼\n那還有就是他們開會的頻率還有就是他們可以參與到什麼樣層級的會議參與到什麼樣層級的討論這個部分我想要請院長說明一下\n當然就是執行會的話是一個例會那例會的話討論的話就是對故宮的一些建議那當然就是說我們也有辦理因為不是只有這樣的一個活動而是我們有青少年大使有校園大使那這些培訓活動的話他們會回到學校裡面去辦一些活動那相關的資料的話我想我們可以送給委員這邊\n親資會跟校園大使基本上是兩回事喔因為親資會原本的設定是希望故宮的很多事情如果他的牽扯層面是跟更多社會大眾有關我們可以透過親資會去聽到這些兒少代表的聲音跟透過你們的培力工作方或是透過相關演習進入校園推廣故宮的藝文活動這是兩回事我要問的是親資會組成方法招募的方法還有目前開會的狀況\n還是我們請你們的同仁回答好了好不好\n跟委員說一個說明親子會的部分的委員的部分因為有很多的一些青少年的部分從兒童因為北院的部分從兒童的部分開始就有做不同的一些教育推廣活動所以在這個期間的部分有很多的名單的部分那我們會請我們展幅處的同仁這邊做一些推薦的部分他如果說相對的對於這一些議文的部分有一些\n而吸引力的部分他們就會列入這個名單裡面來進行那所以我們也會按照這樣的方式去處理這個部分的學生的參與的部分這是甄選的方法那他們開會的頻率跟開會的內容跟成績可以到什麼樣的成績開會的頻率的話原則上我們是一年兩次可是我們的開會的頻率會依照我們的需求的部分會不斷的一個滾動式的修正\n從3月到現在目前你們給我們的名單上這9名同學已經開過會了嗎他們已經開過第一次的會議然後另外的話我們有關一些展覽的部分或者是教育推廣的活動有關於青少年的部分我們都會邀請他們來參與那他們的部分會依照他們實際喜愛的狀況跟他們的出勤的有需求的部分他們會來參與的部分有時候會來看展覽有時候會參與教育推廣活動\n您又岔題了啦,我要問的是親子會,你們不要一直扯到活動,因為看起來你們對親子會的認定跟這個定位還是搞不清楚推廣活動是另外一回事,但是親子會如何從他們參與你們的活動提供給你們在策展方面的意見在企劃方面的意見,因為從前面好幾位委員都問到故宮參觀的人次一直都沒有上升,而且相關的狀況越來越不好\n如果兒少確實是一個我們未來要服務的重點對象那請聽他們的聲音看見他們的需求或是理解他們對故宮的想像因為完全是不同世代我相信他們親自會所能夠提出來的聲音跟代表性絕對可以讓你們作為參考甚至我剛聽到你們說選出來的方法是透過已經來參加故宮活動的兒少裡面然後你們同仁去看然後就問他有沒有意願這個我覺得聽起來有點\n怪怪的我不知道你自己感覺如何為什麼會說怪怪的你覺得呢跟委員做一個說明這個第4屆的部分其實他們已經參加過會議了親資會的部分他已經召開過會議了那我們也是希望能藉由不同的推廣活動讓他們更加的了解所以我們才會還是沒有回答我的問題可是今天主席絕對不會給我們超時那我要講我要講我之前主席不好意思\n之前我一直跟院長討論親子會它的重點意義是什麼看起來故宮還是沒有記得我再念一次CRC的兒少表議權裡面提到兒少擁有就影響其本身之所有事物可以自由表達他的意見的權利當然這並不是只是單純的讓兒少參與而已更重要的是要讓不同年齡層\n不同境遇的而少都能夠以適當的形式表達自己的意見同時政府機關人員也都應該要認真對待並積極的予以聆聽\n這個是我要主張的耳上表一拳因為我們談論說那個到底什麼層級的話基本上來講的話親自會開會的時候院長跟兩位副院長跟相關的所有的那個主管都在場等一下等一下院長你又搞錯我的意思了關鍵不是誰跟他們開會而是他們到底可以對故宮裡面什麼樣的事情表達他們的看法跟想像他們對故宮的所有事情的話我們都盡量要求他們可以提供他們自己的看法\n但是你還是沒有回答我例如說他們已經開過一次會他們講了什麼或者是你們規劃他們要做什麼事情我花了快要6分鐘的時間讓故宮可以好好回答這個問題我還有別的題目但是我相信在場人應該都聽得出來我所主張的兒少表意權而且這不是我主張這是聯合國台灣兒童人權公約國內法制化之後我們台灣所有主管機關都必須要積極面對的問題\n但是我一直在說我們把兒少邀請進故宮的委員會諮詢委員會有一個很重要的關鍵就是假設未來的觀眾群就是他們而他們現在如果沒有機會透過各種管道認識故宮那我們如何能夠期待故宮未來參觀的人次能夠逐漸提升\n那我都不要去談少子化的議題我要講的是我認為故宮在這件事情上的態度真的是相對消極那不管是一年兩次會三次會四次會或者是開會的成績甚至招募的方法我覺得剛剛讓故宮這樣回答我聽起來都還有全面檢討的可能性也要拜託院長跟相關的幕僚要積極檢討我可以進入下一題嗎那這個部分我會持續追蹤好謝謝院長接下來我要談故宮的競爭力我們來看一下相關數字\n把故宮的南院跟北院加起來都還輸台灣其他前三名的博物館那更不要講在疫情後所有的相關博物館的人數都上升我之前就已經跟院長舉過一個例子當時我就已經預告說齊美博物館他們即將舉行的那個拉菲爾道範古的這個展\n一定會帶動非常多人潮因為光是網路上的賣票就已經不得了了後來我們實際去把相關數字調出來從5月開始他們從每個月4月的3萬多4萬多從5月開始一策展到13萬6月15萬7月16萬8月來到19萬\n議員長你怎麼看?\n基本上來講的話我自己個人覺得故宮這兩年來的展覽辦得非常好那當然就是沒有錯就是說一個焦點的展覽的話可以吸引到更多的群眾譬如說像那個齊美的話是有跟英國National Gallery那高美館的話是有跟TED就是說有一個國外的重要展覽的話基本上來講對國內的感覺是有一些新的\n你們自己已經測了一個大美不言然後也謝謝故宮的導覽帶我們去看了我們來看大美不言下一頁故宮這個大展院長你認為它完全符合你剛剛講的國際重要企劃策展而且呢這個展我們去看了我們發現例如說以這張照片這個是在講書證我們發現不是只有法國來的書證其實還有故宮自己典藏的\n那兩邊做了很好的呼應跟契合我個人認為這個展不僅光線設計好展示櫃設計的也好中外文物相互呼應古今展品對照但是我們後來聽了故宮的同仁跟我們分享這裡面有非常多法國人的idea在裡頭那我覺得有這樣的交流合作真的很好\n院長如同你剛剛說的如果有主題有國際的量能進來我們可以吸引到更多的人那院長你自己期待這個大美不言可以為故宮帶來什麼樣的注意在人次參觀人次上參觀人數上面的話其實在故宮少有排隊的人潮除了翠白菜肉形石的話這個展覽是排隊的要抽那個號碼牌\n我覺得這個部分要給同仁鼓勵啦好不好院長你要不要公開給你的同仁在這個議題上的努力這個企劃上的努力當然我剛剛已經一直講過了就是這兩年的話這兩年當然是我認後認前的話我不敢批評這兩年的話災難真的做得很好同仁在策展方面非常用心那如果他們策展很用心可是人次卻起不來會不會是我們相關宣傳有一些困境需要共同去面對\n對,我...我們...我們...\n謝謝院長謝謝主席謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.109 --> 00:12.794\n好我們有很多問題想跟你討論來下一頁在今年的3月7號當時故宮的業務報告裡面我就跟院長討論了關於兒童暨青年事務推動諮詢會的進度當時院長你笑了\n\n00:15.875 --> 00:37.171\n當時我提醒院長只有研究生跟大學生其實代表性不足而且兒少的聲音不應該只有研究生跟大學生我們目前在最近度我們看到增加兩名高中生這個部分我要先給予肯定可是詳細的細節我想要再跟院長多加討論我想問一下目前這些學生代表所產生的方法是什麼\n\n00:37.751 --> 00:42.481\n那還有就是他們開會的頻率還有就是他們可以參與到什麼樣層級的會議參與到什麼樣層級的討論這個部分我想要請院長說明一下\n\n00:49.144 --> 01:13.032\n當然就是執行會的話是一個例會那例會的話討論的話就是對故宮的一些建議那當然就是說我們也有辦理因為不是只有這樣的一個活動而是我們有青少年大使有校園大使那這些培訓活動的話他們會回到學校裡面去辦一些活動那相關的資料的話我想我們可以送給委員這邊\n\n01:16.296 --> 01:41.236\n親資會跟校園大使基本上是兩回事喔因為親資會原本的設定是希望故宮的很多事情如果他的牽扯層面是跟更多社會大眾有關我們可以透過親資會去聽到這些兒少代表的聲音跟透過你們的培力工作方或是透過相關演習進入校園推廣故宮的藝文活動這是兩回事我要問的是親資會組成方法招募的方法還有目前開會的狀況\n\n01:44.335 --> 01:46.626\n還是我們請你們的同仁回答好了好不好\n\n01:48.005 --> 02:13.678\n跟委員說一個說明親子會的部分的委員的部分因為有很多的一些青少年的部分從兒童因為北院的部分從兒童的部分開始就有做不同的一些教育推廣活動所以在這個期間的部分有很多的名單的部分那我們會請我們展幅處的同仁這邊做一些推薦的部分他如果說相對的對於這一些議文的部分有一些\n\n02:14.218 --> 02:26.165\n而吸引力的部分他們就會列入這個名單裡面來進行那所以我們也會按照這樣的方式去處理這個部分的學生的參與的部分這是甄選的方法那他們開會的頻率跟開會的內容跟成績可以到什麼樣的成績開會的頻率的話原則上我們是一年兩次可是我們的開會的頻率會依照我們的需求的部分會不斷的一個滾動式的修正\n\n02:38.052 --> 02:44.277\n從3月到現在目前你們給我們的名單上這9名同學已經開過會了嗎他們已經開過第一次的會議然後另外的話我們有關一些展覽的部分或者是教育推廣的活動有關於青少年的部分我們都會邀請他們來參與那他們的部分會依照他們實際喜愛的狀況跟他們的出勤的有需求的部分他們會來參與的部分有時候會來看展覽有時候會參與教育推廣活動\n\n03:05.733 --> 03:28.709\n您又岔題了啦,我要問的是親子會,你們不要一直扯到活動,因為看起來你們對親子會的認定跟這個定位還是搞不清楚推廣活動是另外一回事,但是親子會如何從他們參與你們的活動提供給你們在策展方面的意見在企劃方面的意見,因為從前面好幾位委員都問到故宮參觀的人次一直都沒有上升,而且相關的狀況越來越不好\n\n03:29.409 --> 03:46.162\n如果兒少確實是一個我們未來要服務的重點對象那請聽他們的聲音看見他們的需求或是理解他們對故宮的想像因為完全是不同世代我相信他們親自會所能夠提出來的聲音跟代表性絕對可以讓你們作為參考甚至我剛聽到你們說選出來的方法是透過已經來參加故宮活動的兒少裡面然後你們同仁去看然後就問他有沒有意願這個我覺得聽起來有點\n\n03:57.051 --> 04:19.923\n怪怪的我不知道你自己感覺如何為什麼會說怪怪的你覺得呢跟委員做一個說明這個第4屆的部分其實他們已經參加過會議了親資會的部分他已經召開過會議了那我們也是希望能藉由不同的推廣活動讓他們更加的了解所以我們才會還是沒有回答我的問題可是今天主席絕對不會給我們超時那我要講我要講我之前主席不好意思\n\n04:20.683 --> 04:35.532\n之前我一直跟院長討論親子會它的重點意義是什麼看起來故宮還是沒有記得我再念一次CRC的兒少表議權裡面提到兒少擁有就影響其本身之所有事物可以自由表達他的意見的權利當然這並不是只是單純的讓兒少參與而已更重要的是要讓不同年齡層\n\n04:43.257 --> 04:52.994\n不同境遇的而少都能夠以適當的形式表達自己的意見同時政府機關人員也都應該要認真對待並積極的予以聆聽\n\n04:55.518 --> 05:23.713\n這個是我要主張的耳上表一拳因為我們談論說那個到底什麼層級的話基本上來講的話親自會開會的時候院長跟兩位副院長跟相關的所有的那個主管都在場等一下等一下院長你又搞錯我的意思了關鍵不是誰跟他們開會而是他們到底可以對故宮裡面什麼樣的事情表達他們的看法跟想像他們對故宮的所有事情的話我們都盡量要求他們可以提供他們自己的看法\n\n05:24.153 --> 05:47.675\n但是你還是沒有回答我例如說他們已經開過一次會他們講了什麼或者是你們規劃他們要做什麼事情我花了快要6分鐘的時間讓故宮可以好好回答這個問題我還有別的題目但是我相信在場人應該都聽得出來我所主張的兒少表意權而且這不是我主張這是聯合國台灣兒童人權公約國內法制化之後我們台灣所有主管機關都必須要積極面對的問題\n\n05:49.497 --> 06:07.715\n但是我一直在說我們把兒少邀請進故宮的委員會諮詢委員會有一個很重要的關鍵就是假設未來的觀眾群就是他們而他們現在如果沒有機會透過各種管道認識故宮那我們如何能夠期待故宮未來參觀的人次能夠逐漸提升\n\n06:08.456 --> 06:34.587\n那我都不要去談少子化的議題我要講的是我認為故宮在這件事情上的態度真的是相對消極那不管是一年兩次會三次會四次會或者是開會的成績甚至招募的方法我覺得剛剛讓故宮這樣回答我聽起來都還有全面檢討的可能性也要拜託院長跟相關的幕僚要積極檢討我可以進入下一題嗎那這個部分我會持續追蹤好謝謝院長接下來我要談故宮的競爭力我們來看一下相關數字\n\n06:38.018 --> 06:57.920\n把故宮的南院跟北院加起來都還輸台灣其他前三名的博物館那更不要講在疫情後所有的相關博物館的人數都上升我之前就已經跟院長舉過一個例子當時我就已經預告說齊美博物館他們即將舉行的那個拉菲爾道範古的這個展\n\n06:58.871 --> 07:05.773\n一定會帶動非常多人潮因為光是網路上的賣票就已經不得了了後來我們實際去把相關數字調出來從5月開始他們從每個月4月的3萬多4萬多從5月開始一策展到13萬6月15萬7月16萬8月來到19萬\n\n07:15.776 --> 07:16.036\n議員長你怎麼看?\n\n07:33.310 --> 07:55.743\n基本上來講的話我自己個人覺得故宮這兩年來的展覽辦得非常好那當然就是沒有錯就是說一個焦點的展覽的話可以吸引到更多的群眾譬如說像那個齊美的話是有跟英國NationalGallery那高美館的話是有跟TED就是說有一個國外的重要展覽的話基本上來講對國內的感覺是有一些新的\n\n07:59.125 --> 08:22.860\n你們自己已經測了一個大美不言然後也謝謝故宮的導覽帶我們去看了我們來看大美不言下一頁故宮這個大展院長你認為它完全符合你剛剛講的國際重要企劃策展而且呢這個展我們去看了我們發現例如說以這張照片這個是在講書證我們發現不是只有法國來的書證其實還有故宮自己典藏的\n\n08:23.300 --> 08:40.051\n那兩邊做了很好的呼應跟契合我個人認為這個展不僅光線設計好展示櫃設計的也好中外文物相互呼應古今展品對照但是我們後來聽了故宮的同仁跟我們分享這裡面有非常多法國人的idea在裡頭那我覺得有這樣的交流合作真的很好\n\n08:41.132 --> 09:04.150\n院長如同你剛剛說的如果有主題有國際的量能進來我們可以吸引到更多的人那院長你自己期待這個大美不言可以為故宮帶來什麼樣的注意在人次參觀人次上參觀人數上面的話其實在故宮少有排隊的人潮除了翠白菜肉形石的話這個展覽是排隊的要抽那個號碼牌\n\n09:06.713 --> 09:29.854\n我覺得這個部分要給同仁鼓勵啦好不好院長你要不要公開給你的同仁在這個議題上的努力這個企劃上的努力當然我剛剛已經一直講過了就是這兩年的話這兩年當然是我認後認前的話我不敢批評這兩年的話災難真的做得很好同仁在策展方面非常用心那如果他們策展很用心可是人次卻起不來會不會是我們相關宣傳有一些困境需要共同去面對\n\n09:31.154 --> 09:31.214\n對,我...我們...我們...\n\n09:49.602 --> 09:49.903\n謝謝院長謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.109,"end":12.794,"text":"好我們有很多問題想跟你討論來下一頁在今年的3月7號當時故宮的業務報告裡面我就跟院長討論了關於兒童暨青年事務推動諮詢會的進度當時院長你笑了"},{"start":15.875,"end":37.171,"text":"當時我提醒院長只有研究生跟大學生其實代表性不足而且兒少的聲音不應該只有研究生跟大學生我們目前在最近度我們看到增加兩名高中生這個部分我要先給予肯定可是詳細的細節我想要再跟院長多加討論我想問一下目前這些學生代表所產生的方法是什麼"},{"start":37.751,"end":42.481,"text":"那還有就是他們開會的頻率還有就是他們可以參與到什麼樣層級的會議參與到什麼樣層級的討論這個部分我想要請院長說明一下"},{"start":49.144,"end":73.032,"text":"當然就是執行會的話是一個例會那例會的話討論的話就是對故宮的一些建議那當然就是說我們也有辦理因為不是只有這樣的一個活動而是我們有青少年大使有校園大使那這些培訓活動的話他們會回到學校裡面去辦一些活動那相關的資料的話我想我們可以送給委員這邊"},{"start":76.296,"end":101.236,"text":"親資會跟校園大使基本上是兩回事喔因為親資會原本的設定是希望故宮的很多事情如果他的牽扯層面是跟更多社會大眾有關我們可以透過親資會去聽到這些兒少代表的聲音跟透過你們的培力工作方或是透過相關演習進入校園推廣故宮的藝文活動這是兩回事我要問的是親資會組成方法招募的方法還有目前開會的狀況"},{"start":104.335,"end":106.626,"text":"還是我們請你們的同仁回答好了好不好"},{"start":108.005,"end":133.678,"text":"跟委員說一個說明親子會的部分的委員的部分因為有很多的一些青少年的部分從兒童因為北院的部分從兒童的部分開始就有做不同的一些教育推廣活動所以在這個期間的部分有很多的名單的部分那我們會請我們展幅處的同仁這邊做一些推薦的部分他如果說相對的對於這一些議文的部分有一些"},{"start":134.218,"end":146.165,"text":"而吸引力的部分他們就會列入這個名單裡面來進行那所以我們也會按照這樣的方式去處理這個部分的學生的參與的部分這是甄選的方法那他們開會的頻率跟開會的內容跟成績可以到什麼樣的成績開會的頻率的話原則上我們是一年兩次可是我們的開會的頻率會依照我們的需求的部分會不斷的一個滾動式的修正"},{"start":158.052,"end":164.277,"text":"從3月到現在目前你們給我們的名單上這9名同學已經開過會了嗎他們已經開過第一次的會議然後另外的話我們有關一些展覽的部分或者是教育推廣的活動有關於青少年的部分我們都會邀請他們來參與那他們的部分會依照他們實際喜愛的狀況跟他們的出勤的有需求的部分他們會來參與的部分有時候會來看展覽有時候會參與教育推廣活動"},{"start":185.733,"end":208.709,"text":"您又岔題了啦,我要問的是親子會,你們不要一直扯到活動,因為看起來你們對親子會的認定跟這個定位還是搞不清楚推廣活動是另外一回事,但是親子會如何從他們參與你們的活動提供給你們在策展方面的意見在企劃方面的意見,因為從前面好幾位委員都問到故宮參觀的人次一直都沒有上升,而且相關的狀況越來越不好"},{"start":209.409,"end":226.162,"text":"如果兒少確實是一個我們未來要服務的重點對象那請聽他們的聲音看見他們的需求或是理解他們對故宮的想像因為完全是不同世代我相信他們親自會所能夠提出來的聲音跟代表性絕對可以讓你們作為參考甚至我剛聽到你們說選出來的方法是透過已經來參加故宮活動的兒少裡面然後你們同仁去看然後就問他有沒有意願這個我覺得聽起來有點"},{"start":237.051,"end":259.923,"text":"怪怪的我不知道你自己感覺如何為什麼會說怪怪的你覺得呢跟委員做一個說明這個第4屆的部分其實他們已經參加過會議了親資會的部分他已經召開過會議了那我們也是希望能藉由不同的推廣活動讓他們更加的了解所以我們才會還是沒有回答我的問題可是今天主席絕對不會給我們超時那我要講我要講我之前主席不好意思"},{"start":260.683,"end":275.532,"text":"之前我一直跟院長討論親子會它的重點意義是什麼看起來故宮還是沒有記得我再念一次CRC的兒少表議權裡面提到兒少擁有就影響其本身之所有事物可以自由表達他的意見的權利當然這並不是只是單純的讓兒少參與而已更重要的是要讓不同年齡層"},{"start":283.257,"end":292.994,"text":"不同境遇的而少都能夠以適當的形式表達自己的意見同時政府機關人員也都應該要認真對待並積極的予以聆聽"},{"start":295.518,"end":323.713,"text":"這個是我要主張的耳上表一拳因為我們談論說那個到底什麼層級的話基本上來講的話親自會開會的時候院長跟兩位副院長跟相關的所有的那個主管都在場等一下等一下院長你又搞錯我的意思了關鍵不是誰跟他們開會而是他們到底可以對故宮裡面什麼樣的事情表達他們的看法跟想像他們對故宮的所有事情的話我們都盡量要求他們可以提供他們自己的看法"},{"start":324.153,"end":347.675,"text":"但是你還是沒有回答我例如說他們已經開過一次會他們講了什麼或者是你們規劃他們要做什麼事情我花了快要6分鐘的時間讓故宮可以好好回答這個問題我還有別的題目但是我相信在場人應該都聽得出來我所主張的兒少表意權而且這不是我主張這是聯合國台灣兒童人權公約國內法制化之後我們台灣所有主管機關都必須要積極面對的問題"},{"start":349.497,"end":367.715,"text":"但是我一直在說我們把兒少邀請進故宮的委員會諮詢委員會有一個很重要的關鍵就是假設未來的觀眾群就是他們而他們現在如果沒有機會透過各種管道認識故宮那我們如何能夠期待故宮未來參觀的人次能夠逐漸提升"},{"start":368.456,"end":394.587,"text":"那我都不要去談少子化的議題我要講的是我認為故宮在這件事情上的態度真的是相對消極那不管是一年兩次會三次會四次會或者是開會的成績甚至招募的方法我覺得剛剛讓故宮這樣回答我聽起來都還有全面檢討的可能性也要拜託院長跟相關的幕僚要積極檢討我可以進入下一題嗎那這個部分我會持續追蹤好謝謝院長接下來我要談故宮的競爭力我們來看一下相關數字"},{"start":398.018,"end":417.92,"text":"把故宮的南院跟北院加起來都還輸台灣其他前三名的博物館那更不要講在疫情後所有的相關博物館的人數都上升我之前就已經跟院長舉過一個例子當時我就已經預告說齊美博物館他們即將舉行的那個拉菲爾道範古的這個展"},{"start":418.871,"end":425.773,"text":"一定會帶動非常多人潮因為光是網路上的賣票就已經不得了了後來我們實際去把相關數字調出來從5月開始他們從每個月4月的3萬多4萬多從5月開始一策展到13萬6月15萬7月16萬8月來到19萬"},{"start":435.776,"end":436.036,"text":"議員長你怎麼看?"},{"start":453.31,"end":475.743,"text":"基本上來講的話我自己個人覺得故宮這兩年來的展覽辦得非常好那當然就是沒有錯就是說一個焦點的展覽的話可以吸引到更多的群眾譬如說像那個齊美的話是有跟英國National Gallery那高美館的話是有跟TED就是說有一個國外的重要展覽的話基本上來講對國內的感覺是有一些新的"},{"start":479.125,"end":502.86,"text":"你們自己已經測了一個大美不言然後也謝謝故宮的導覽帶我們去看了我們來看大美不言下一頁故宮這個大展院長你認為它完全符合你剛剛講的國際重要企劃策展而且呢這個展我們去看了我們發現例如說以這張照片這個是在講書證我們發現不是只有法國來的書證其實還有故宮自己典藏的"},{"start":503.3,"end":520.051,"text":"那兩邊做了很好的呼應跟契合我個人認為這個展不僅光線設計好展示櫃設計的也好中外文物相互呼應古今展品對照但是我們後來聽了故宮的同仁跟我們分享這裡面有非常多法國人的idea在裡頭那我覺得有這樣的交流合作真的很好"},{"start":521.132,"end":544.15,"text":"院長如同你剛剛說的如果有主題有國際的量能進來我們可以吸引到更多的人那院長你自己期待這個大美不言可以為故宮帶來什麼樣的注意在人次參觀人次上參觀人數上面的話其實在故宮少有排隊的人潮除了翠白菜肉形石的話這個展覽是排隊的要抽那個號碼牌"},{"start":546.713,"end":569.854,"text":"我覺得這個部分要給同仁鼓勵啦好不好院長你要不要公開給你的同仁在這個議題上的努力這個企劃上的努力當然我剛剛已經一直講過了就是這兩年的話這兩年當然是我認後認前的話我不敢批評這兩年的話災難真的做得很好同仁在策展方面非常用心那如果他們策展很用心可是人次卻起不來會不會是我們相關宣傳有一些困境需要共同去面對"},{"start":571.154,"end":571.214,"text":"對,我...我們...我們..."},{"start":589.602,"end":589.903,"text":"謝謝院長謝謝主席謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":143,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（9時41分）謝謝主席，有請院長。"],["主席：有請院長。"],["蕭院長宗煌：陳委員早。"],["陳委員培瑜：院長早安。我們有很多問題想跟你討論，在今年的3月7號，當時針對故宮的業務報告，我就跟院長討論了關於兒童暨青年事務推動諮詢會的進度，當時……院長你笑了！當時我提醒院長，只有研究生跟大學生其實代表性不足，而且兒少的聲音不應該只有研究生跟大學生，我們目前在追進度，我們看到增加兩名高中生，這個部分我要先給予肯定，可是詳細的細節我想要再跟院長多加討論。我想問一下，目前這些學生代表所產生的方法是什麼？還有他們開會的頻率、他們可以參與到什麼樣層級的會議、參與到什麼樣層級的討論？這個部分我想要請院長說明一下。"],["蕭院長宗煌：諮詢會是一個例會，討論方面就是對故宮的一些建議，當然我們有辦理，因為不是只有這樣的一個活動，我們有青少年大使、有校園大使，關於這些培訓活動，他們會回到學校裡面去辦一些活動，相關的資料我們可以送給委員這邊。"],["陳委員培瑜：青諮會跟校園大使基本上是兩回事，因為青諮會原本的設定是，如果故宮很多事情的牽扯層面是跟更多社會大眾有關，我們可以透過青諮會去聽到這些兒少代表的聲音，但這跟透過你們的培力工作坊，或是透過相關研習進入校園推廣故宮的藝文活動是兩回事。我要問的是青諮會的組成方法、招募的方法還有目前開會的狀況？還是我請你們的同仁回答好了，好不好？"],["張處長嬋娟：跟委員說明，青諮會委員的部分，因為本院從兒少、兒童的部分就有開始做一些不同的教育推廣活動，所以在這個期間有很多的名單，那我們會請展服處的同仁做一些推薦，如果相對地對於這些藝文有一些吸引力，他們就會列入這個名單裡面來進行，所以我們也會按照這樣的方式去處理學生參與的部分。"],["陳委員培瑜：這是甄選的方法，那他們開會的頻率跟開會的內容、層級可以到什麼樣的層級？"],["張處長嬋娟：開會頻率的話，原則上我們是一年兩次，可是我們的開會頻率會依照我們的需求不斷的滾動式修正；另外，他們會……"],["陳委員培瑜：從3月到現在，目前你們給我們的名單上的9名同學已經開過會了嗎？開會的內容討論了什麼？"],["張處長嬋娟：他們已經開過第一次的會議，另外，我們在一些展覽的部分或者是教育推廣的活動，有關於青少年的部分我們都會邀請他們來參與，他們會依照他們實際喜愛的狀況跟他們的出勤需求來參與，有時候會來看展覽、有時候會參與教育推廣活動。"],["陳委員培瑜：你又岔題了啦，你又岔題！我要問的是青諮會，你們不要一直扯到活動，看起來你們對青諮會的認定跟定位還是搞不清楚，推廣活動是另外一回事，但是青諮會如何從他們參與你們的活動，提供給你們在策展方面的意見、在企劃方面的意見？因為前面好幾位委員都問到故宮參觀的人次一直都沒有上升，而且相關的狀況越來越不好，如果兒少確實是一個我們未來要服務的重點對象，那傾聽他們的聲音、看見他們的需求或是理解他們對故宮的想像，因為完全是不同世代，我相信青諮會所能夠提出來的聲音跟代表性絕對可以讓你們作為參考。甚至我剛聽到你們說選出來的方法是透過已經來參加故宮活動的兒少裡面，然後你們同仁去看了覺得這個不錯、那個不錯，然後就問他有沒有意願，我覺得這聽起來有點怪怪的，我不知道你自己感覺如何？為什麼我會說怪怪的，你覺得呢？"],["張處長嬋娟：跟委員說明，第四屆的部分其實他們已經參加過會議了，青諮會的部分已經召開過會議了，我們也是希望能夠藉由不同的推廣活動讓他們更加了解，所以我們才會……"],["陳委員培瑜：你還是沒有回答我的問題！可是今天主席絕對不會給我們超時，我要講我之前……主席，不好意思！之前我一直跟院長討論青諮會的重點、意義是什麼，看起來故宮還是沒有記得！我再唸一次，CRC的兒少表意權裡面提到，兒少擁有就影響其本身之所有事物可以自由表達他的意見的權利，當然這並不只是單純的讓兒少參與而已，更重要的是，要讓不同年齡層、不同境遇的兒少都能夠以適當的形式表達自己的意見，同時政府機關人員也都應該要認真對待並積極的予以聆聽。這是我要主張的兒少表意權。"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，因為委員談論說那個到底什麼層級，基本上來講，青諮會開會的時候，院長、兩位副院長跟相關的所有主管都在場，那青諮會除了……"],["陳委員培瑜：等一下，院長，你又搞錯我的意思！關鍵不是誰跟他們開會，而是他們到底可以對故宮裡面什麼樣的事情表達他們的看法跟想像？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對於故宮的所有事情我們都儘量要求他們可以提供他們自己的看法。"],["陳委員培瑜：但是你還是沒有回答我，例如說，他們已經開過一次會，他們講了什麼或者是你們規劃他們要做什麼事情？我花了快要6分鐘的時間讓故宮可以好好回答這個問題，我還有別的題目，但是我相信在場的人應該都聽得出來我所主張的兒少表意權，而且這不是我主張，這是聯合國兒童權利公約國內法制化之後，我們臺灣所有主管機關都必須要積極面對的問題。","但是我一直在說，我們把兒少邀請進故宮的諮詢委員會有一個很重要的關鍵，就是假設未來的觀眾群就是他們，而他們現在如果沒有機會透過各種管道認識故宮，那我們如何能夠期待故宮未來參觀的人次能夠逐漸提升？我都不要去談少子化的議題，我要講的是，我認為故宮在這件事情上的態度真的是相對消極，不管是一年兩次會、三次會、四次會，或者是開會的層級，甚至招募的方法，我覺得剛剛讓故宮這樣回答，我聽起來都還有全面檢討的可能性，也要拜託院長跟相關的幕僚積極檢討！我可以進入下一題嗎？這個部分我會持續追蹤，好，謝謝院長。","接下來，我要談故宮的競爭力，我們來看一下相關數字，把故宮的南院跟北院加起來都還輸臺灣其他前三名的博物館，那更不要講在疫情後，所有相關博物館的人數都上升。我之前就已經跟院長舉過一個例子，當時我就已經預告說，奇美博物館即將舉行的「從拉斐爾到梵谷」這個展一定會帶動非常多人潮，因為光是網路上的賣票就已經不得了，後來我們實際去把相關數字調出來，從5月開始，他們從4月的三萬多、四萬多，5月開始一策展到13萬，6月15萬、7月16萬、8月來到19萬，合計我就不要再唸了。","我要講的是，我認為故宮應該有更強的策展能力，我當然知道故宮現在的研究量能、相關經費跟預算可能都有一些不足的部分，但是故宮企劃的能力應該可以更強，這個部分院長你怎麼看？"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上來講，我自己個人覺得故宮這兩年來的展覽辦得非常好，當然沒有錯，一個焦點展覽可以吸引到更多的群眾，譬如說奇美是有跟英國National Gallery、高美館是有跟Ted，有一個國外重要展覽的話，基本上來講，對國內的感覺是有一些新的……"],["陳委員培瑜：院長，你講到重點──國外的重要展覽，我們馬上來看，你們自己已經策了一個「大美不言」，也謝謝故宮的導覽，帶我們去看。我們來看「大美不言」，故宮這個大展完全符合你剛剛講的國際重要企劃策展！而且這個展我們去看了之後發現，例如這張照片，這個是在講書鎮，我們發現不是只有法國來的書鎮，其實還有故宮自己典藏的，兩邊做了很好的呼應跟契合，我個人認為這個展不僅光線設計好、展示櫃設計的也好，中外文物相互呼應、古今展品對照，但是我們後來聽了故宮的同仁跟我們分享，其中有非常多法國人的idea在裡頭。我覺得有這樣的交流合作真的很好！院長，如同你剛剛說的，如果有主題、有國際的量能進來，我們可以吸引到更多的人。院長，你自己期待這個「大美不言」可以為故宮帶來什麼樣的助益？在參觀人次上。"],["蕭院長宗煌：參觀人數上面的話，其實在故宮少有排隊的人潮，除了翠玉白菜、肉形石，這個展覽是排隊的，要抽號碼牌，那現在的……"],["陳委員培瑜：這個確實要，我覺得這個部分要給同仁鼓勵，好不好？院長，你要不要在這個議題上公開給你的同仁鼓勵，鼓勵他們在這個企畫上的努力？"],["蕭院長宗煌：當然，我剛剛一直在講，這兩年，當然是指我就任後，就任前的話我不敢批評，這兩年的展覽真的做得很好，同仁在策展方面非常用心。"],["陳委員培瑜：如果他們策展很用心，可是人次卻起不來，會不會是我們相關的宣傳有一些困境需要共同去面對？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，我們……"],["陳委員培瑜：或者是有什麼方法，就是回到我剛剛講的，也許青諮會是一個部分，也許是更多的廣宣、更多的進入校園推廣活動，這個部分的行銷企畫要拜託院長協同你的同仁多多努力，好嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，關於青諮會的部分，我們辦公室也會再持續追蹤，我剛剛問的那些問題拜託故宮要繼續努力，謝謝。"],["蕭院長宗煌：故宮有努力的空間，因為如果一個諮詢會變成是一個例行性的形式會議的話，基本上來講它就沒有成立的必要。"],["陳委員培瑜：會非常可惜、很可惜。"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，這個我非常了解。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝院長，謝謝主席，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝陳培瑜委員。","接下來我們有請林宜瑾委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":428,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-5","speakers":["萬美玲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","林倩綺","陳培瑜","林宜瑾","陳秀寳","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","張雅琳","吳沛憶","范雲","羅廷瑋","葉元之","陳冠廷","吳春城"],"page_start":383,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1138901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國立故宮博物院院長蕭宗煌列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138901_00006"}}}