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{\"start\": 109.454, \"end\": 133.825, \"text\": \"每一年度的出生率包括從高推估、中推估跟低推估來算的時候那我看的狀態其實基本上我們的實際出生數都比我們國發會這邊所提供出來的低推估還要少就我們少子化問題嚴重到比國發會的低推估還要少人主委你知道這個事情嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 109.454, \"end\": 109.614, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 109.614, \"end\": 109.774, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 109.774, \"end\": 109.994, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 109.994, \"end\": 110.134, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 110.134, \"end\": 110.254, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 110.254, \"end\": 110.454, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 110.454, \"end\": 110.695, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"率\", \"start\": 110.695, \"end\": 111.495, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 111.495, \"end\": 111.675, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"括\", \"start\": 111.675, \"end\": 112.595, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 112.595, \"end\": 112.836, 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{\"start\": 135.886, \"end\": 148.999, \"text\": \"我只知道那是上一版的今年我們這次的那個出生率我們有下調然後所以我們有對應到今年對到今年你們預計今年出生人數有多少人\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 135.886, \"end\": 136.046, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 136.046, \"end\": 136.106, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 136.106, \"end\": 136.146, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 136.146, \"end\": 137.387, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 137.387, \"end\": 137.527, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 137.527, \"end\": 137.648, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 137.648, \"end\": 137.828, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 137.828, \"end\": 137.968, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"版\", \"start\": 137.968, \"end\": 138.188, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 138.188, \"end\": 138.528, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 138.528, \"end\": 138.689, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 138.689, \"end\": 138.949, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 138.949, \"end\": 139.489, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 139.489, \"end\": 139.67, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 139.67, \"end\": 140.29, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 140.29, \"end\": 140.691, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 140.691, \"end\": 140.831, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 140.831, \"end\": 140.971, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"率\", \"start\": 140.971, \"end\": 141.091, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 141.091, \"end\": 141.331, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 141.331, \"end\": 141.532, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 141.532, \"end\": 142.252, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 142.252, \"end\": 142.453, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 142.453, \"end\": 144.214, 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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 585.652, \"end\": 585.772, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 585.772, \"end\": 585.952, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"鄭\"}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 585.952, \"end\": 586.052, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 586.052, \"end\": 586.132, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 586.132, \"end\": 586.152, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,049 --> 00:00:01,614\n各位諮詢請政政前委員\n\n2\n00:00:32,807 --> 00:00:54,436\n謝主席我想請一下我們國發會劉主委還有我們教育部的張廖萬堅政策教育部張廖政策鄭委員早昨天早我在想說臺灣少子化問題已經很多年了你應該知道從什麼時候開始出現生不如死的狀態對不對幾年\n\n3\n00:00:57,911 --> 00:01:00,553\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n\n4\n00:01:24,772 --> 00:01:46,345\n這排序大家都非常的慘那我後來是看到幾個狀態是因為我發現那個國發會在算我們的人口數的時候我一直都算得不太準那麼今年一到九月份的時候我們只有九萬七千七百三十三人那麼也比之前來的少那我看了我們就是針對國發會在評估我們就是\n\n5\n00:01:49,454 --> 00:02:13,825\n每一年度的出生率包括從高推估、中推估跟低推估來算的時候那我看的狀態其實基本上我們的實際出生數都比我們國發會這邊所提供出來的低推估還要少就我們少子化問題嚴重到比國發會的低推估還要少人主委你知道這個事情嗎\n\n6\n00:02:15,886 --> 00:02:28,999\n我只知道那是上一版的今年我們這次的那個出生率我們有下調然後所以我們有對應到今年對到今年你們預計今年出生人數有多少人\n\n7\n00:02:30,203 --> 00:02:45,049\n我們今年到7月為我們大概是原定是13萬上下啦13萬人上下是不是?那我們到7月份比去年同期大概少了將近5000位因為我看了所有數字當中的時候那個\n\n8\n00:02:45,949 --> 00:03:14,202\n到時候我再來我們本報告是因為我們有很清楚去整理一下我們從105、107、109到111年所有的低推估針對112年跟113年的人數的狀態那你們也許有不同的報告那我們希望能夠更精準因為少子化問題確實非常非常的嚴重好那我們再往下這個部分其實是台灣從2000年到今年1到9月為止的人數你發現就持續的下降當中\n\n9\n00:03:15,583 --> 00:03:38,216\n只有在2008年到2016年當中的時候這邊曾經有就是反轉那我在因為我看你報告裡面其實你也寫到很多我們少子化問題的理由那你可以解釋一下為什麼在這段時間當中的時候我們的人口其實是成長的而不是持續的下降主委\n\n10\n00:03:42,509 --> 00:03:51,358\n那一年是有龍年的效應2012年龍年現在我們今年也是龍年的效應怎麼沒有看到龍年效應出來\n\n11\n00:03:52,868 --> 00:04:12,455\n對今年是我們也記得在有在討論這個問題今年為什麼農年效應是比往年我再想說這邊我提到一個一個學界的一個看法他覺得因為事實上說臺灣的政府其實在針對少子化問題已經做了非常的做很多努力不管是給錢給更好的一個\n\n12\n00:04:13,335 --> 00:04:40,212\n社會福利相關的一個政策等等的部分的時候可是我們的少子化問題還是持續的下降從陳水扁在那八年當中每一年都持續的下降蔡英文的八年當中也是每一年都持續的下降只有在馬英九執政的這八年當中的時候曾經反轉那我們有一個解釋的狀態就是說會不會是因為兩岸問題讓民眾覺得和平的穩定性高的時候大家就更敢於生孩子對\n\n13\n00:04:42,912 --> 00:05:09,794\n這樣一個觀點你覺得是不是可以解釋在這為什麼在馬這八年當中的時候我們的出生人口數會反轉?這因為當然我就想承諾我報告他那一年剛好是農年是一個因素那至於為什麼有沒有其他的因素我想我們還需要再去分析那我這邊有提到一個狀態我想應該是雙方的事情不是單方面的事情可是重點就是說\n\n14\n00:05:11,889 --> 00:05:38,610\n和平會讓老百姓更有安全感所以大家可能會更敢生孩子所以整個的大環境來說是重要的那我想說我今天先提這個部分給主委這邊那我們要怎麼樣去做因為這不是國發會一個單位可以做出來的事因為我們今天邀請了五、六個部會來可是沒有陸委會所以我接下來我想問一個事情就是我們在看到就是\n\n15\n00:05:40,711 --> 00:05:52,577\n台灣在今天的主題當中在針對那個少子化問題還有針對那個亞鄰國家攬才留才的競爭力比較我想問一下主委我們亞鄰國家含不含大陸\n\n16\n00:05:54,079 --> 00:05:58,641\n邀請國家發展委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n17\n00:06:17,231 --> 00:06:37,171\n兩岸交流的時候有很多大陸的學生來那我想問一下我們張教官這次就是說我們今年有錄取了多少大陸學生?今年有沒有大陸學生來?多少人?\n\n18\n00:06:38,359 --> 00:07:02,541\n大概都是研修生我的詳細資料我這邊沒有很簡單跟你講一下今年113學年報考台灣碩博士放榜了34個學校總共只有174個人那麼缺額高達1326名那麼整個招生率只有11.6是這14年來最低的一個水位\n\n19\n00:07:03,963 --> 00:07:13,831\n那我在這邊提到一個點就是說這段時間的時候我想兩岸的關係沒有處理好所以台灣這邊一定是講大陸這邊沒有放行對不對\n\n20\n00:07:15,595 --> 00:07:16,796\n主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n21\n00:07:38,430 --> 00:07:41,473\n主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n\n22\n00:08:02,091 --> 00:08:23,206\n提供更多的政策其實都沒有用所以我覺得一個大框架當中我希望教育部這邊跟陸委會這邊好好的去做一個溝通希望能夠從政策面去解決這個事情政策面要解決很大一部分是政治的友善度可能也要這邊去解決那我這邊提到一個個案這邊有一個大陸的學生\n\n23\n00:08:25,268 --> 00:08:36,609\n他一清到台灣來念了三年高中念了四年的大學我們這七年我們對於一個大陸學生來我們要投入多少的資源下去\n\n24\n00:08:38,430 --> 00:08:57,452\n市長你有沒有具體的數字?根據你的資料是一百二十六萬嘛OK齁我們這個一百二十六萬你是怎麼算?因為我們平均每對每個大學生一年的投入是大概二十二萬八千對高中生十六萬算起來他在這邊唸的七年書大概是這個數字可是你知道因為\n\n25\n00:08:58,653 --> 00:09:21,193\n兩岸關係的不好他現在沒有辦法繼續來他本來想在台灣繼續念所以我們希望教育部這邊好好的跟陸委會這邊一起解決陸生來台的問題然後另外讓他們也能夠比照我們國發會這邊提出的一個留才攬才的一個計畫好不好讓他們也能夠變成台灣增加人才的一個來源\n\n26\n00:09:22,148 --> 00:09:46,152\n我想教育部對於兩岸之間那種良性的互動跟教育文化的交流都是支持啦那我們也不斷的釋出善意可是就是對方到目前為止就是包括那個招生機構我們跟他聯繫他就是一睹不回所以說在這方面我們再努力繼續努力是啦我覺得這部分可能要更加油好不好那跟陸委會這邊好好做溝通好先再到本辦公室來做報告好謝謝謝謝委員關心謝謝鄭正前委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n49\t1614\t各位諮詢請政政前委員\n32807\t54436\t謝主席我想請一下我們國發會劉主委還有我們教育部的張廖萬堅政策教育部張廖政策鄭委員早昨天早我在想說臺灣少子化問題已經很多年了你應該知道從什麼時候開始出現生不如死的狀態對不對幾年\n57911\t60553\t二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n84772\t106345\t這排序大家都非常的慘那我後來是看到幾個狀態是因為我發現那個國發會在算我們的人口數的時候我一直都算得不太準那麼今年一到九月份的時候我們只有九萬七千七百三十三人那麼也比之前來的少那我看了我們就是針對國發會在評估我們就是\n109454\t133825\t每一年度的出生率包括從高推估、中推估跟低推估來算的時候那我看的狀態其實基本上我們的實際出生數都比我們國發會這邊所提供出來的低推估還要少就我們少子化問題嚴重到比國發會的低推估還要少人主委你知道這個事情嗎\n135886\t148999\t我只知道那是上一版的今年我們這次的那個出生率我們有下調然後所以我們有對應到今年對到今年你們預計今年出生人數有多少人\n150203\t165049\t我們今年到7月為我們大概是原定是13萬上下啦13萬人上下是不是?那我們到7月份比去年同期大概少了將近5000位因為我看了所有數字當中的時候那個\n165949\t194202\t到時候我再來我們本報告是因為我們有很清楚去整理一下我們從105、107、109到111年所有的低推估針對112年跟113年的人數的狀態那你們也許有不同的報告那我們希望能夠更精準因為少子化問題確實非常非常的嚴重好那我們再往下這個部分其實是台灣從2000年到今年1到9月為止的人數你發現就持續的下降當中\n195583\t218216\t只有在2008年到2016年當中的時候這邊曾經有就是反轉那我在因為我看你報告裡面其實你也寫到很多我們少子化問題的理由那你可以解釋一下為什麼在這段時間當中的時候我們的人口其實是成長的而不是持續的下降主委\n222509\t231358\t那一年是有龍年的效應2012年龍年現在我們今年也是龍年的效應怎麼沒有看到龍年效應出來\n232868\t252455\t對今年是我們也記得在有在討論這個問題今年為什麼農年效應是比往年我再想說這邊我提到一個一個學界的一個看法他覺得因為事實上說臺灣的政府其實在針對少子化問題已經做了非常的做很多努力不管是給錢給更好的一個\n253335\t280212\t社會福利相關的一個政策等等的部分的時候可是我們的少子化問題還是持續的下降從陳水扁在那八年當中每一年都持續的下降蔡英文的八年當中也是每一年都持續的下降只有在馬英九執政的這八年當中的時候曾經反轉那我們有一個解釋的狀態就是說會不會是因為兩岸問題讓民眾覺得和平的穩定性高的時候大家就更敢於生孩子對\n282912\t309794\t這樣一個觀點你覺得是不是可以解釋在這為什麼在馬這八年當中的時候我們的出生人口數會反轉?這因為當然我就想承諾我報告他那一年剛好是農年是一個因素那至於為什麼有沒有其他的因素我想我們還需要再去分析那我這邊有提到一個狀態我想應該是雙方的事情不是單方面的事情可是重點就是說\n311889\t338610\t和平會讓老百姓更有安全感所以大家可能會更敢生孩子所以整個的大環境來說是重要的那我想說我今天先提這個部分給主委這邊那我們要怎麼樣去做因為這不是國發會一個單位可以做出來的事因為我們今天邀請了五、六個部會來可是沒有陸委會所以我接下來我想問一個事情就是我們在看到就是\n340711\t352577\t台灣在今天的主題當中在針對那個少子化問題還有針對那個亞鄰國家攬才留才的競爭力比較我想問一下主委我們亞鄰國家含不含大陸\n354079\t358641\t邀請國家發展委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n377231\t397171\t兩岸交流的時候有很多大陸的學生來那我想問一下我們張教官這次就是說我們今年有錄取了多少大陸學生?今年有沒有大陸學生來?多少人?\n398359\t422541\t大概都是研修生我的詳細資料我這邊沒有很簡單跟你講一下今年113學年報考台灣碩博士放榜了34個學校總共只有174個人那麼缺額高達1326名那麼整個招生率只有11.6是這14年來最低的一個水位\n423963\t433831\t那我在這邊提到一個點就是說這段時間的時候我想兩岸的關係沒有處理好所以台灣這邊一定是講大陸這邊沒有放行 對不對\n435595\t436796\t主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n458430\t461473\t主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n482091\t503206\t提供更多的政策其實都沒有用所以我覺得一個大框架當中我希望教育部這邊跟陸委會這邊好好的去做一個溝通希望能夠從政策面去解決這個事情政策面要解決很大一部分是政治的友善度可能也要這邊去解決那我這邊提到一個個案這邊有一個大陸的學生\n505268\t516609\t他一清到台灣來念了三年高中念了四年的大學我們這七年我們對於一個大陸學生來我們要投入多少的資源下去\n518430\t537452\t市長你有沒有具體的數字?根據你的資料是一百二十六萬嘛OK齁我們這個一百二十六萬你是怎麼算?因為我們平均每對每個大學生一年的投入是大概二十二萬八千對高中生十六萬算起來他在這邊唸的七年書大概是這個數字可是你知道因為\n538653\t561193\t兩岸關係的不好他現在沒有辦法繼續來他本來想在台灣繼續念所以我們希望教育部這邊好好的跟陸委會這邊一起解決陸生來台的問題然後另外讓他們也能夠比照我們國發會這邊提出的一個留才攬才的一個計畫好不好讓他們也能夠變成台灣增加人才的一個來源\n562148\t586152\t我想教育部對於兩岸之間那種良性的互動跟教育文化的交流都是支持啦那我們也不斷的釋出善意可是就是對方到目前為止就是包括那個招生機構我們跟他聯繫他就是一睹不回所以說在這方面我們再努力繼續努力是啦我覺得這部分可能要更加油好不好那跟陸委會這邊好好做溝通好先再到本辦公室來做報告好謝謝謝謝委員關心謝謝鄭正前委員\n","txt":"各位諮詢請政政前委員\n謝主席我想請一下我們國發會劉主委還有我們教育部的張廖萬堅政策教育部張廖政策鄭委員早昨天早我在想說臺灣少子化問題已經很多年了你應該知道從什麼時候開始出現生不如死的狀態對不對幾年\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n這排序大家都非常的慘那我後來是看到幾個狀態是因為我發現那個國發會在算我們的人口數的時候我一直都算得不太準那麼今年一到九月份的時候我們只有九萬七千七百三十三人那麼也比之前來的少那我看了我們就是針對國發會在評估我們就是\n每一年度的出生率包括從高推估、中推估跟低推估來算的時候那我看的狀態其實基本上我們的實際出生數都比我們國發會這邊所提供出來的低推估還要少就我們少子化問題嚴重到比國發會的低推估還要少人主委你知道這個事情嗎\n我只知道那是上一版的今年我們這次的那個出生率我們有下調然後所以我們有對應到今年對到今年你們預計今年出生人數有多少人\n我們今年到7月為我們大概是原定是13萬上下啦13萬人上下是不是?那我們到7月份比去年同期大概少了將近5000位因為我看了所有數字當中的時候那個\n到時候我再來我們本報告是因為我們有很清楚去整理一下我們從105、107、109到111年所有的低推估針對112年跟113年的人數的狀態那你們也許有不同的報告那我們希望能夠更精準因為少子化問題確實非常非常的嚴重好那我們再往下這個部分其實是台灣從2000年到今年1到9月為止的人數你發現就持續的下降當中\n只有在2008年到2016年當中的時候這邊曾經有就是反轉那我在因為我看你報告裡面其實你也寫到很多我們少子化問題的理由那你可以解釋一下為什麼在這段時間當中的時候我們的人口其實是成長的而不是持續的下降主委\n那一年是有龍年的效應2012年龍年現在我們今年也是龍年的效應怎麼沒有看到龍年效應出來\n對今年是我們也記得在有在討論這個問題今年為什麼農年效應是比往年我再想說這邊我提到一個一個學界的一個看法他覺得因為事實上說臺灣的政府其實在針對少子化問題已經做了非常的做很多努力不管是給錢給更好的一個\n社會福利相關的一個政策等等的部分的時候可是我們的少子化問題還是持續的下降從陳水扁在那八年當中每一年都持續的下降蔡英文的八年當中也是每一年都持續的下降只有在馬英九執政的這八年當中的時候曾經反轉那我們有一個解釋的狀態就是說會不會是因為兩岸問題讓民眾覺得和平的穩定性高的時候大家就更敢於生孩子對\n這樣一個觀點你覺得是不是可以解釋在這為什麼在馬這八年當中的時候我們的出生人口數會反轉?這因為當然我就想承諾我報告他那一年剛好是農年是一個因素那至於為什麼有沒有其他的因素我想我們還需要再去分析那我這邊有提到一個狀態我想應該是雙方的事情不是單方面的事情可是重點就是說\n和平會讓老百姓更有安全感所以大家可能會更敢生孩子所以整個的大環境來說是重要的那我想說我今天先提這個部分給主委這邊那我們要怎麼樣去做因為這不是國發會一個單位可以做出來的事因為我們今天邀請了五、六個部會來可是沒有陸委會所以我接下來我想問一個事情就是我們在看到就是\n台灣在今天的主題當中在針對那個少子化問題還有針對那個亞鄰國家攬才留才的競爭力比較我想問一下主委我們亞鄰國家含不含大陸\n邀請國家發展委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n兩岸交流的時候有很多大陸的學生來那我想問一下我們張教官這次就是說我們今年有錄取了多少大陸學生?今年有沒有大陸學生來?多少人?\n大概都是研修生我的詳細資料我這邊沒有很簡單跟你講一下今年113學年報考台灣碩博士放榜了34個學校總共只有174個人那麼缺額高達1326名那麼整個招生率只有11.6是這14年來最低的一個水位\n那我在這邊提到一個點就是說這段時間的時候我想兩岸的關係沒有處理好所以台灣這邊一定是講大陸這邊沒有放行 對不對\n主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n提供更多的政策其實都沒有用所以我覺得一個大框架當中我希望教育部這邊跟陸委會這邊好好的去做一個溝通希望能夠從政策面去解決這個事情政策面要解決很大一部分是政治的友善度可能也要這邊去解決那我這邊提到一個個案這邊有一個大陸的學生\n他一清到台灣來念了三年高中念了四年的大學我們這七年我們對於一個大陸學生來我們要投入多少的資源下去\n市長你有沒有具體的數字?根據你的資料是一百二十六萬嘛OK齁我們這個一百二十六萬你是怎麼算?因為我們平均每對每個大學生一年的投入是大概二十二萬八千對高中生十六萬算起來他在這邊唸的七年書大概是這個數字可是你知道因為\n兩岸關係的不好他現在沒有辦法繼續來他本來想在台灣繼續念所以我們希望教育部這邊好好的跟陸委會這邊一起解決陸生來台的問題然後另外讓他們也能夠比照我們國發會這邊提出的一個留才攬才的一個計畫好不好讓他們也能夠變成台灣增加人才的一個來源\n我想教育部對於兩岸之間那種良性的互動跟教育文化的交流都是支持啦那我們也不斷的釋出善意可是就是對方到目前為止就是包括那個招生機構我們跟他聯繫他就是一睹不回所以說在這方面我們再努力繼續努力是啦我覺得這部分可能要更加油好不好那跟陸委會這邊好好做溝通好先再到本辦公室來做報告好謝謝謝謝委員關心謝謝鄭正前委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.049 --> 00:01.614\n各位諮詢請政政前委員\n\n00:32.807 --> 00:54.436\n謝主席我想請一下我們國發會劉主委還有我們教育部的張廖萬堅政策教育部張廖政策鄭委員早昨天早我在想說臺灣少子化問題已經很多年了你應該知道從什麼時候開始出現生不如死的狀態對不對幾年\n\n00:57.911 --> 01:00.553\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n\n01:24.772 --> 01:46.345\n這排序大家都非常的慘那我後來是看到幾個狀態是因為我發現那個國發會在算我們的人口數的時候我一直都算得不太準那麼今年一到九月份的時候我們只有九萬七千七百三十三人那麼也比之前來的少那我看了我們就是針對國發會在評估我們就是\n\n01:49.454 --> 02:13.825\n每一年度的出生率包括從高推估、中推估跟低推估來算的時候那我看的狀態其實基本上我們的實際出生數都比我們國發會這邊所提供出來的低推估還要少就我們少子化問題嚴重到比國發會的低推估還要少人主委你知道這個事情嗎\n\n02:15.886 --> 02:28.999\n我只知道那是上一版的今年我們這次的那個出生率我們有下調然後所以我們有對應到今年對到今年你們預計今年出生人數有多少人\n\n02:30.203 --> 02:45.049\n我們今年到7月為我們大概是原定是13萬上下啦13萬人上下是不是?那我們到7月份比去年同期大概少了將近5000位因為我看了所有數字當中的時候那個\n\n02:45.949 --> 03:14.202\n到時候我再來我們本報告是因為我們有很清楚去整理一下我們從105、107、109到111年所有的低推估針對112年跟113年的人數的狀態那你們也許有不同的報告那我們希望能夠更精準因為少子化問題確實非常非常的嚴重好那我們再往下這個部分其實是台灣從2000年到今年1到9月為止的人數你發現就持續的下降當中\n\n03:15.583 --> 03:38.216\n只有在2008年到2016年當中的時候這邊曾經有就是反轉那我在因為我看你報告裡面其實你也寫到很多我們少子化問題的理由那你可以解釋一下為什麼在這段時間當中的時候我們的人口其實是成長的而不是持續的下降主委\n\n03:42.509 --> 03:51.358\n那一年是有龍年的效應2012年龍年現在我們今年也是龍年的效應怎麼沒有看到龍年效應出來\n\n03:52.868 --> 04:12.455\n對今年是我們也記得在有在討論這個問題今年為什麼農年效應是比往年我再想說這邊我提到一個一個學界的一個看法他覺得因為事實上說臺灣的政府其實在針對少子化問題已經做了非常的做很多努力不管是給錢給更好的一個\n\n04:13.335 --> 04:40.212\n社會福利相關的一個政策等等的部分的時候可是我們的少子化問題還是持續的下降從陳水扁在那八年當中每一年都持續的下降蔡英文的八年當中也是每一年都持續的下降只有在馬英九執政的這八年當中的時候曾經反轉那我們有一個解釋的狀態就是說會不會是因為兩岸問題讓民眾覺得和平的穩定性高的時候大家就更敢於生孩子對\n\n04:42.912 --> 05:09.794\n這樣一個觀點你覺得是不是可以解釋在這為什麼在馬這八年當中的時候我們的出生人口數會反轉?這因為當然我就想承諾我報告他那一年剛好是農年是一個因素那至於為什麼有沒有其他的因素我想我們還需要再去分析那我這邊有提到一個狀態我想應該是雙方的事情不是單方面的事情可是重點就是說\n\n05:11.889 --> 05:38.610\n和平會讓老百姓更有安全感所以大家可能會更敢生孩子所以整個的大環境來說是重要的那我想說我今天先提這個部分給主委這邊那我們要怎麼樣去做因為這不是國發會一個單位可以做出來的事因為我們今天邀請了五、六個部會來可是沒有陸委會所以我接下來我想問一個事情就是我們在看到就是\n\n05:40.711 --> 05:52.577\n台灣在今天的主題當中在針對那個少子化問題還有針對那個亞鄰國家攬才留才的競爭力比較我想問一下主委我們亞鄰國家含不含大陸\n\n05:54.079 --> 05:58.641\n邀請國家發展委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n06:17.231 --> 06:37.171\n兩岸交流的時候有很多大陸的學生來那我想問一下我們張教官這次就是說我們今年有錄取了多少大陸學生?今年有沒有大陸學生來?多少人?\n\n06:38.359 --> 07:02.541\n大概都是研修生我的詳細資料我這邊沒有很簡單跟你講一下今年113學年報考台灣碩博士放榜了34個學校總共只有174個人那麼缺額高達1326名那麼整個招生率只有11.6是這14年來最低的一個水位\n\n07:03.963 --> 07:13.831\n那我在這邊提到一個點就是說這段時間的時候我想兩岸的關係沒有處理好所以台灣這邊一定是講大陸這邊沒有放行對不對\n\n07:15.595 --> 07:16.796\n主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n07:38.430 --> 07:41.473\n主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n\n08:02.091 --> 08:23.206\n提供更多的政策其實都沒有用所以我覺得一個大框架當中我希望教育部這邊跟陸委會這邊好好的去做一個溝通希望能夠從政策面去解決這個事情政策面要解決很大一部分是政治的友善度可能也要這邊去解決那我這邊提到一個個案這邊有一個大陸的學生\n\n08:25.268 --> 08:36.609\n他一清到台灣來念了三年高中念了四年的大學我們這七年我們對於一個大陸學生來我們要投入多少的資源下去\n\n08:38.430 --> 08:57.452\n市長你有沒有具體的數字?根據你的資料是一百二十六萬嘛OK齁我們這個一百二十六萬你是怎麼算?因為我們平均每對每個大學生一年的投入是大概二十二萬八千對高中生十六萬算起來他在這邊唸的七年書大概是這個數字可是你知道因為\n\n08:58.653 --> 09:21.193\n兩岸關係的不好他現在沒有辦法繼續來他本來想在台灣繼續念所以我們希望教育部這邊好好的跟陸委會這邊一起解決陸生來台的問題然後另外讓他們也能夠比照我們國發會這邊提出的一個留才攬才的一個計畫好不好讓他們也能夠變成台灣增加人才的一個來源\n\n09:22.148 --> 09:46.152\n我想教育部對於兩岸之間那種良性的互動跟教育文化的交流都是支持啦那我們也不斷的釋出善意可是就是對方到目前為止就是包括那個招生機構我們跟他聯繫他就是一睹不回所以說在這方面我們再努力繼續努力是啦我覺得這部分可能要更加油好不好那跟陸委會這邊好好做溝通好先再到本辦公室來做報告好謝謝謝謝委員關心謝謝鄭正前委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.049,"end":1.614,"text":"各位諮詢請政政前委員"},{"start":32.807,"end":54.436,"text":"謝主席我想請一下我們國發會劉主委還有我們教育部的張廖萬堅政策教育部張廖政策鄭委員早昨天早我在想說臺灣少子化問題已經很多年了你應該知道從什麼時候開始出現生不如死的狀態對不對幾年"},{"start":57.911,"end":60.553,"text":"二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會"},{"start":84.772,"end":106.345,"text":"這排序大家都非常的慘那我後來是看到幾個狀態是因為我發現那個國發會在算我們的人口數的時候我一直都算得不太準那麼今年一到九月份的時候我們只有九萬七千七百三十三人那麼也比之前來的少那我看了我們就是針對國發會在評估我們就是"},{"start":109.454,"end":133.825,"text":"每一年度的出生率包括從高推估、中推估跟低推估來算的時候那我看的狀態其實基本上我們的實際出生數都比我們國發會這邊所提供出來的低推估還要少就我們少子化問題嚴重到比國發會的低推估還要少人主委你知道這個事情嗎"},{"start":135.886,"end":148.999,"text":"我只知道那是上一版的今年我們這次的那個出生率我們有下調然後所以我們有對應到今年對到今年你們預計今年出生人數有多少人"},{"start":150.203,"end":165.049,"text":"我們今年到7月為我們大概是原定是13萬上下啦13萬人上下是不是?那我們到7月份比去年同期大概少了將近5000位因為我看了所有數字當中的時候那個"},{"start":165.949,"end":194.202,"text":"到時候我再來我們本報告是因為我們有很清楚去整理一下我們從105、107、109到111年所有的低推估針對112年跟113年的人數的狀態那你們也許有不同的報告那我們希望能夠更精準因為少子化問題確實非常非常的嚴重好那我們再往下這個部分其實是台灣從2000年到今年1到9月為止的人數你發現就持續的下降當中"},{"start":195.583,"end":218.216,"text":"只有在2008年到2016年當中的時候這邊曾經有就是反轉那我在因為我看你報告裡面其實你也寫到很多我們少子化問題的理由那你可以解釋一下為什麼在這段時間當中的時候我們的人口其實是成長的而不是持續的下降主委"},{"start":222.509,"end":231.358,"text":"那一年是有龍年的效應2012年龍年現在我們今年也是龍年的效應怎麼沒有看到龍年效應出來"},{"start":232.868,"end":252.455,"text":"對今年是我們也記得在有在討論這個問題今年為什麼農年效應是比往年我再想說這邊我提到一個一個學界的一個看法他覺得因為事實上說臺灣的政府其實在針對少子化問題已經做了非常的做很多努力不管是給錢給更好的一個"},{"start":253.335,"end":280.212,"text":"社會福利相關的一個政策等等的部分的時候可是我們的少子化問題還是持續的下降從陳水扁在那八年當中每一年都持續的下降蔡英文的八年當中也是每一年都持續的下降只有在馬英九執政的這八年當中的時候曾經反轉那我們有一個解釋的狀態就是說會不會是因為兩岸問題讓民眾覺得和平的穩定性高的時候大家就更敢於生孩子對"},{"start":282.912,"end":309.794,"text":"這樣一個觀點你覺得是不是可以解釋在這為什麼在馬這八年當中的時候我們的出生人口數會反轉?這因為當然我就想承諾我報告他那一年剛好是農年是一個因素那至於為什麼有沒有其他的因素我想我們還需要再去分析那我這邊有提到一個狀態我想應該是雙方的事情不是單方面的事情可是重點就是說"},{"start":311.889,"end":338.61,"text":"和平會讓老百姓更有安全感所以大家可能會更敢生孩子所以整個的大環境來說是重要的那我想說我今天先提這個部分給主委這邊那我們要怎麼樣去做因為這不是國發會一個單位可以做出來的事因為我們今天邀請了五、六個部會來可是沒有陸委會所以我接下來我想問一個事情就是我們在看到就是"},{"start":340.711,"end":352.577,"text":"台灣在今天的主題當中在針對那個少子化問題還有針對那個亞鄰國家攬才留才的競爭力比較我想問一下主委我們亞鄰國家含不含大陸"},{"start":354.079,"end":358.641,"text":"邀請國家發展委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":377.231,"end":397.171,"text":"兩岸交流的時候有很多大陸的學生來那我想問一下我們張教官這次就是說我們今年有錄取了多少大陸學生?今年有沒有大陸學生來?多少人?"},{"start":398.359,"end":422.541,"text":"大概都是研修生我的詳細資料我這邊沒有很簡單跟你講一下今年113學年報考台灣碩博士放榜了34個學校總共只有174個人那麼缺額高達1326名那麼整個招生率只有11.6是這14年來最低的一個水位"},{"start":423.963,"end":433.831,"text":"那我在這邊提到一個點就是說這段時間的時候我想兩岸的關係沒有處理好所以台灣這邊一定是講大陸這邊沒有放行 對不對"},{"start":435.595,"end":436.796,"text":"主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":458.43,"end":461.473,"text":"主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會"},{"start":482.091,"end":503.206,"text":"提供更多的政策其實都沒有用所以我覺得一個大框架當中我希望教育部這邊跟陸委會這邊好好的去做一個溝通希望能夠從政策面去解決這個事情政策面要解決很大一部分是政治的友善度可能也要這邊去解決那我這邊提到一個個案這邊有一個大陸的學生"},{"start":505.268,"end":516.609,"text":"他一清到台灣來念了三年高中念了四年的大學我們這七年我們對於一個大陸學生來我們要投入多少的資源下去"},{"start":518.43,"end":537.452,"text":"市長你有沒有具體的數字?根據你的資料是一百二十六萬嘛OK齁我們這個一百二十六萬你是怎麼算?因為我們平均每對每個大學生一年的投入是大概二十二萬八千對高中生十六萬算起來他在這邊唸的七年書大概是這個數字可是你知道因為"},{"start":538.653,"end":561.193,"text":"兩岸關係的不好他現在沒有辦法繼續來他本來想在台灣繼續念所以我們希望教育部這邊好好的跟陸委會這邊一起解決陸生來台的問題然後另外讓他們也能夠比照我們國發會這邊提出的一個留才攬才的一個計畫好不好讓他們也能夠變成台灣增加人才的一個來源"},{"start":562.148,"end":586.152,"text":"我想教育部對於兩岸之間那種良性的互動跟教育文化的交流都是支持啦那我們也不斷的釋出善意可是就是對方到目前為止就是包括那個招生機構我們跟他聯繫他就是一睹不回所以說在這方面我們再努力繼續努力是啦我覺得這部分可能要更加油好不好那跟陸委會這邊好好做溝通好先再到本辦公室來做報告好謝謝謝謝委員關心謝謝鄭正前委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":420,"blocks":[["鄭委員正鈐：（10時49分）謝謝主席，請國發會劉主委和教育部張廖萬堅政次。"],["主席：請國發會劉主委、教育部張廖政次。"],["張廖次長萬堅：鄭委員早。"],["鄭委員正鈐：主委早。臺灣少子化問題已經很多年，你應該知道從什麼時候開始出現生不如死的狀態，對不對？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["鄭委員正鈐：幾年？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：2020年。"],["鄭委員正鈐：就109年開始一直到現在為止，我們看到整個數據，包括出生率或總生育率，在整個OECD國家當中都很明顯處在很後面的部分，主要的國家裡面，我們只比南韓稍微好一點點，排序大概都非常慘。我後來看到幾個狀況，因為我發現國發會在算我們人口數的時候，一直都算得不太準，今年1到9月份有9萬7,733人，也比之前來得少，我看了國發會評估每一年度的出生率，包括從高推估、中推估、低推估來算，我看的狀態，其實基本上我們實際出生數都比國發會所提供的低推估還要少，我們少子化問題嚴重到比國發會低推估還要少人，主委知道這件事嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：那是上一版的，我們這次的出生率有下調，所以我們有對應到今年。"],["鄭委員正鈐：你們預計今年出生人數多少人？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：原訂13萬上下，到7月份比去年同期大概少了將近5,000位。"],["鄭委員正鈐：因為我看了所有的數字，到時候再到我們辦公室，因為我們有很清楚去整理一下，從105、107、109到111年所有的低推估，針對112年和113年的人數狀況，也許你們有不同的報告，但是我們希望能夠更精準，因為少子化問題確實非常非常嚴重。","這是臺灣從2000年到今年1到9月為止的人數，你發現持續的下降當中，只有在2008年到2016年當中曾經反轉，因為我看你報告裡面也寫到很多少子化問題的理由，你是否可以解釋一下為什麼在這一段時間當中，我們的人口其實是成長的，而不是持續的下降？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：那一年是有龍年的效應，2012年。"],["鄭委員正鈐：今年也是龍年的效應，怎麼沒有看到龍年的效應出來？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們也有在討論這個問題，今年為什麼龍年效應比往年低。"],["鄭委員正鈐：我這邊提到一個學界的看法，他覺得臺灣的政府在針對少子化問題已經做了很多的努力，不管是給錢、給更好的社會福利相關的政策等等，可是我們少子化問題還是持續下降，從陳水扁那8年當中，每一年都持續下降，蔡英文的8年也是每一年都持續下降，只有在馬英九執政的這8年曾經反轉，我們有一個解釋，會不會是因為兩岸的問題讓民眾覺得和平的穩定性高的時候，大家就更敢於生孩子，主委，你覺得這樣的觀點是不是可以解釋在馬這8年當中，我們的出生人口數會反轉？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：誠如我的報告，那一年剛好是龍年是一個因素，至於有沒有其他的因素，我想我們還需要再去分析，就兩岸和平的話，應該是雙方的事情，不是單方面的事情。"],["鄭委員正鈐：可是重點就是說和平會讓老百姓更有安全感，所以大家可能更敢生孩子，所以整個大環境來說是重要的，我今天先提這個部分給主委，我們要怎麼去做，因為這不是國發會一個單位可以做出來的事，因為今天我們邀請了5、6個部會來，可是沒有陸委會，所以我接下來想問一個事情，我們在看到今天的主題中，在針對少子化問題及亞鄰國家攬才留才的競爭力比較，我想問一下主委，我們亞鄰國家含不含大陸？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：含大陸，對岸是我們的亞鄰國家沒有錯。"],["鄭委員正鈐：可是我看到你所有的評估都沒有著墨到這個點，因為我們之前兩岸交流的時候，有很多大陸學生來，請問一下張廖萬堅政次，我們今年錄取多少大陸學生？今年有沒有大陸學生來？"],["張廖次長萬堅：應該也是有。"],["鄭委員正鈐：多少人？"],["張廖次長萬堅：大概都是研修生，我手邊沒有詳細資料。"],["鄭委員正鈐：我簡單跟你講一下，今年113學年報考臺灣碩博士放榜了，34個學校總共只有174個人，缺額高達1,326名，招生率只有11.6%，這是14年來最低的水位。我在這邊提到一個點，這段時間我想兩岸的關係沒有處理好，所以臺灣這邊一定講大陸這邊沒有放行，對不對！還是有其他的原因？"],["張廖次長萬堅：兩岸關係要互相，其實賴總統上任之後有講要重啟兩岸關係可以從開放陸生開始，所以教育部也一直積極準備，也跟對方釋出善意，從100年開放陸生到現在，其實我們對於大陸學歷的採證也擴大到346校。"],["鄭委員正鈐：有沒有更積極去做這件事情？"],["張廖次長萬堅：總量也是增加，今年2月還修法讓陸生能夠納入健保，其實都是非常友善的措施，包括他們也可以領獎助金，他們也可以來報考臺灣的技能檢定，或者擔任研究助理、從事學習性的活動，這些事情不會是單方面的。"],["鄭委員正鈐：次長，我們做很多，可是沒有人來的時候，你提供更多的政策其實都沒有用，所以我覺得一個大框架當中，教育部和陸委會好好去溝通，希望能夠從政策面去解決這個事情，政策面要解決很大的一部分是政治的友善度可能也要去解決。我這邊提到一個個案，有一個大陸的學生依親到臺灣來，唸了3年高中、4年大學，這7年我們對於一個大陸學生要投入多少資源下去？次長有沒有具體的數字？"],["張廖次長萬堅：根據你的資料是126萬元。"],["鄭委員正鈐：這126萬元是怎麼算的？因為我們平均對每個大學生一年的投入大概是22萬8,000元，對高中是16萬元，他在這邊唸了7年算起來大概是這個數字，可是你知道因為兩岸關係的不好，他現在沒有辦法繼續來，他本來想在臺灣繼續唸，所以我們希望教育部好好跟陸委會一起解決陸生來臺的問題，另外讓他們也能夠比照國發會提出的留才攬才計畫，讓他們也能夠變成臺灣增加人才的來源。"],["張廖次長萬堅：我想教育部對於兩岸之間良性的互動和教育文化的交流都是支持的，我們也不斷的釋出善意，可是對方到目前為止，包括招生機構，我們跟它聯繫，它就是已讀不回，這方面我們再繼續努力。"],["鄭委員正鈐：次長，這部分可能要更加油，跟陸委會這邊好好溝通，找個時間再到本辦公室來報告，謝謝。"],["張廖次長萬堅：謝謝委員關心。"],["主席：謝謝鄭正鈐委員，時間掌握非常精確。","下一位質詢請賴瑞隆委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":224,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-8","speakers":["邱志偉","林岱樺","邱議瑩","呂玉玲","張啓楷","張嘉郡","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra 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