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{\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 380.114, \"end\": 380.254, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 380.254, \"end\": 380.975, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"營\"}, {\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 380.975, \"end\": 381.095, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 381.095, \"end\": 381.235, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 381.235, \"end\": 381.375, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 381.375, \"end\": 381.515, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 381.515, \"end\": 381.615, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 381.615, \"end\": 381.775, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 381.775, \"end\": 381.855, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 381.855, \"end\": 382.035, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 382.035, \"end\": 382.395, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"駕\"}, {\"word\": \"系\", \"start\": 382.395, \"end\": 382.415, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"統\"}]}, {\"start\": 382.975, \"end\": 404.95, \"text\": \"那這個部分其實也是我們希望投入一些資源能夠下去做研發跟研究那這個部分當然委員您所提供的就是針對貨運的部分我們回去來研議看看看有沒有可能貨運會不會相對簡單一些那國道會不會更相對簡單一些或許過去沒有聚焦在討論到這一塊只有針對客運的部分那未來我們針對貨運的部分我們另外再做討論\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 382.975, \"end\": 383.315, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 383.315, \"end\": 383.415, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 383.415, \"end\": 383.575, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 383.575, \"end\": 383.816, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 383.816, \"end\": 383.976, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 383.976, \"end\": 384.136, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 384.136, \"end\": 384.436, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 384.436, \"end\": 384.536, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 384.536, \"end\": 384.736, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 384.736, \"end\": 384.896, \"score\": 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00:00:55,024\n不曉得如果說部長聽到這樣的建議你認為推動高速公路或者是快速道路的一個自駕的貨車的這個開放啦就是開放他們這樣子的運行對我們的交通部有哪些好處\n\n4\n00:00:56,329 --> 00:01:17,800\n第一個當然是勞力的部分可以減少那第二個如果那個系統是可靠而又可信的話那那個安全度或許會比人還高一些但是第三個問題是說目前為止很像台灣還沒有發展我們就先講好處啦好處就前面那兩個還有一個當天其實我主要的論述點有兩個第一個就剛剛部長講的\n\n5\n00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:46,442\n未來自駕技術一定比人開車還來的安全這是我們可以看、絕對看得到的目標現在不一定,但是未來一定是這樣子以及我們可以紓解我們的目前道路擁捨的情形因為我們的高速公路目前塵封了運輸的情況非常的擁捨那可以只要有自駕系統我們可以把自駕的運輸量移到離峰這是可以目前看得到對我們運輸有立即的好處那另外連帶的好處就是我們的這個\n\n6\n00:01:47,463 --> 00:02:10,869\n人力短缺的問題可以連帶的來獲得一些紓緩但是在那一次的質詢之後交通部一直給我我感覺交通部一直給我搞錯方向好像交通部一直以為我要推動臺灣的自駕系統的一個推進但是我的立場是說應該是我所以說之後交通部一直去找經濟部希望經濟部來主導這件事情\n\n7\n00:02:11,269 --> 00:02:37,167\n因為自駕確實是我們經濟部在推的但是我為什麼會來質詢我們交通部因為現在是我們交通部遇到的問題我們交通部遇到了道路容量不夠的問題我們交通部遇到了可能這個事故我們希望它降低的一個問題第三個我們交通部遇到了人力短缺的問題這都是我們交通部遇到的問題應該是我們遇到問題的單位去尋求其他可以來幫我們解決問題的單位一起找他來幫忙\n\n8\n00:02:40,109 --> 00:02:45,092\n而不是把我在這邊詢問的問題推給經濟部所以說我希望說我們的交通部在未來是不是能夠明確的推出有關於我們大貨車、自駕的一個未來的一個明確的政治的一個政策的一個方針跟目標\n\n9\n00:03:00,772 --> 00:03:14,708\n報告委員在大客車的部分它的自駕的發展的部分其實交通部是有參與的不是只有經濟部那當然經濟部為主啦因為這是產業面的部分是經濟部為主但是交通部的部分在客車的部分其實是有加入一些計畫的那\n\n10\n00:03:16,329 --> 00:03:39,812\n對於貨車的部分可能我們還沒有因為對交通部來講委員說的沒有錯交通部最大的問題容量的問題交通容量的問題那另外就是說公共運輸的部分所以我們著眼點先從客運的部分客運的大型車的部分這個上次我在這邊也罵過了在貨跟在的哪一個比較麻煩哪一個難度比較高\n\n11\n00:03:41,548 --> 00:04:01,390\n應該是載人比較高啦載人的難度比較高啊對不對你載人不是只有從A點到B點啦你載人會有車上會有新操的問題你會有緊急的醫療的問題你要再去其他地方啊對不對人就是會產生講直接一點人會產生額外的其他的麻煩的問題或不會甚至可能發生事故的時候\n\n12\n00:04:03,057 --> 00:04:24,107\n如果說是載客的話那會是非常嚴重的一個社會事件如果是載貨而已的話那是會是一個很單純的財損問題而已所以說當初我不知道為什麼當初交通部跟經濟部在討論這件事情的時候會從自駕公車開始那包括自駕公車就是考量到公共運輸對那考量到自駕公車他可能他沒有辦法\n\n13\n00:04:24,847 --> 00:04:36,162\n他的規模性可能沒有辦法放大因為就算今天你在特定的點淡水那一邊新市鎮有試辦難不成你淡水試辦成功的點你有辦法外擴到中和永和嗎板橋嗎你不可能外擴嘛你試辦點結束之後\n\n14\n00:04:40,768 --> 00:05:08,733\n就是你整個計畫結束了你很難去擴張到其他地方但是貨運不是貨運就是道路系統、高速公路系統、快速道路系統你只要能夠成功你在所有的點都能夠是成功那加上我們的高速公路跟我們的快速道路相對起來是封閉的高速公路是絕對是最安全的道路系統只有汽車快速道路可能還會有重型計車大型的重型機所以說高速公路相對起來是最安全\n\n15\n00:05:10,410 --> 00:05:37,748\n對於實驗者來說他是一個最好去試驗的一個沙盒的場域當然對高速公路局來說他當然不希望嘛因為當高速公路可能發生事故的時候對他來說車速比較快等等每個單位有不同的考慮的因素但是我在看到這份報告的時候我會認為說我們好像就是都在提一些過去比較傳統的一些解決的方針我們沒有利用現在世界科技的一個發展利用自駕的技術來解決我們現在面對的問題\n\n16\n00:05:40,470 --> 00:05:59,749\n那不曉得我們部長經過我們這樣子的討論那你對於未來不管是對於我們駕駛短缺我們當然駕駛的平均制度絕對最重要的就是安全嘛對不對那對於這樣子的一個自駕技術部長未來你自己的觀念的看法跟未來可能會怎麼引領交通部來跟這個世界潮流來做一個間接\n\n17\n00:06:00,530 --> 00:06:22,415\n我覺得委員你的建議很好而且很具體就是說朝自駕的方向大概是人類的趨勢這必然要做各國都在努力當中雖然沒有做到很具體而且非常可靠的系統還沒出來但台灣在這個部分也很努力所以才會有這個機場T3的那個外面的營運的部分是希望是用自駕系統\n\n18\n00:06:22,975 --> 00:06:44,950\n那這個部分其實也是我們希望投入一些資源能夠下去做研發跟研究那這個部分當然委員您所提供的就是針對貨運的部分我們回去來研議看看看有沒有可能貨運會不會相對簡單一些那國道會不會更相對簡單一些或許過去沒有聚焦在討論到這一塊只有針對客運的部分那未來我們針對貨運的部分我們另外再做討論\n\n19\n00:06:45,390 --> 00:06:56,869\n對我也希望部長持一個開放的態度然後定確明確的方針跟目標我們不一定要在幾年前但是這是我們交通部未來一定要做一定要引入的一個科技上一次為什麼會在這邊質詢是因為我們的經濟部已經把這樣的技術\n\n20\n00:07:01,747 --> 00:07:20,059\n行銷到、支援到澳洲去澳洲用我們台灣經濟部的一個輔導的一個技術在澳洲的高速公路來做這件事情結果我們自己的交通部沒有在推廣這件事情那包括日本、包括美國他們都已經在做這件事情了\n\n21\n00:07:20,359 --> 00:07:36,768\n都應該做這件事情我們的政府已經起步比別人慢了所以我就希望說在這件事情我們就希望能夠部長持一個開放的態度明確的方針我們自己也有科技司馬對不對用科技司來\n\n22\n00:07:38,028 --> 00:08:00,488\n協助我們的公路局那協助我們的這個高速公路局因為包括我知道公路局也有沙盒實驗嘛因為之前在台六一可能發生一個擦撞對不對你在高速公路局會擦撞到腳踏車嗎不會嘛就是因為你在平面道路如果說你在快速道路你會擦撞到腳踏車嗎不會啊你就是在平面道你才會你跟摩托車跟其他的交通的那個交織的情況一定會更為的\n\n23\n00:08:02,378 --> 00:08:11,459\n風險更為增加嘛好不好那另外還有提一點啦就是有關我們的這個大客車啦我們過去在大客車的一些制度上面我們常常都是只有\n\n24\n00:08:13,626 --> 00:08:31,983\n我們沒有一個羅波假設說我們可能你違規怎麼樣的情況那你可能會被吊扣執照我們大概現行的制度都是這樣子而已但是我們沒有針對他說法給相對給他一個好的一個獎勵給他在可能在道路通行上面比較好的一個\n\n25\n00:08:33,244 --> 00:08:50,326\n行駛的一個條件我其實之前有具體提過一個建議啦我們現在的雪山隧道其實禁止大貨車通行的那當然裡面有一些消防的考量那還有其他考量其實我都跟幕僚單位提過啦我提出的問題我幕僚單位提說真的也都沒辦法明確的回應我也不敢再來啦\n\n26\n00:08:51,735 --> 00:09:14,594\n但是我們現在台二線每天走瑞芳到貢寮芙蓉貢寮到宜蘭每天大貨車就是繞那麼一大段繞那麼一大段然後每年發生的事故都那麼多一部分走那麼大段駕駛會疲勞另外一個部分道路條件不是那麼好那我們有沒有可能考慮讓那些優良的駕駛我們可以說3年內5年內你沒有發生過\n\n27\n00:09:19,458 --> 00:09:47,076\n一些我們可以訂定一些違規的一些項目嘛你只要符合這些違規項目我可以試著讓你在離峰的時間去走國五這樣子的一個方案我覺得有時候我們也可以試著在其他我這個只是舉一個例子而已我們在針對大客車的駕駛管制這方面有時候或許是可以用一些獎勵的措施鼓勵他們平常就要守法那你平常只要守法不違規那我可能\n\n28\n00:09:48,277 --> 00:09:54,609\n我可以相信你這個價值是可以去做我們平常去限制的一些事情好不好那以上部長謝謝明天考慮一下謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3120\t7507\t好 謝謝召委員 麻煩邀請我們的陳部長好 陳部長好 部長 早安喔 委員好\n16211\t36889\t今天有討論到我們公路大型客貨運駕駛短缺的問題其實我在今年的上半年也有在交委會有質詢一個議題那時候你還不在那我就是跟交通部建議應該要推動高速公路的自動駕駛的一個系統\n42008\t55024\t不曉得如果說部長聽到這樣的建議你認為推動高速公路或者是快速道路的一個自駕的貨車的這個開放啦就是開放他們這樣子的運行對我們的交通部有哪些好處\n56329\t77800\t第一個當然是勞力的部分可以減少那第二個如果那個系統是可靠而又可信的話那那個安全度或許會比人還高一些但是第三個問題是說目前為止很像台灣還沒有發展我們就先講好處啦好處就前面那兩個還有一個當天其實我主要的論述點有兩個第一個就剛剛部長講的\n78880\t106442\t未來自駕技術一定比人開車還來的安全這是我們可以看、絕對看得到的目標現在不一定,但是未來一定是這樣子以及我們可以紓解我們的目前道路擁捨的情形因為我們的高速公路目前塵封了運輸的情況非常的擁捨那可以只要有自駕系統我們可以把自駕的運輸量移到離峰這是可以目前看得到對我們運輸有立即的好處那另外連帶的好處就是我們的這個\n107463\t130869\t人力短缺的問題可以連帶的來獲得一些紓緩但是在那一次的質詢之後交通部一直給我 我感覺交通部一直給我搞錯方向好像交通部一直以為我要推動臺灣的自駕系統的一個推進但是我的立場是說應該是我 所以說之後交通部一直去找經濟部希望經濟部來主導這件事情\n131269\t157167\t因為自駕確實是我們經濟部在推的但是我為什麼會來質詢我們交通部因為現在是我們交通部遇到的問題我們交通部遇到了道路容量不夠的問題我們交通部遇到了可能這個事故我們希望它降低的一個問題第三個我們交通部遇到了人力短缺的問題這都是我們交通部遇到的問題應該是我們遇到問題的單位去尋求其他可以來幫我們解決問題的單位一起找他來幫忙\n160109\t165092\t而不是把我在這邊詢問的問題推給經濟部所以說我希望說我們的交通部在未來是不是能夠明確的推出有關於我們大貨車、自駕的一個未來的一個明確的政治的一個政策的一個方針跟目標\n180772\t194708\t報告委員在大客車的部分它的自駕的發展的部分其實交通部是有參與的不是只有經濟部那當然經濟部為主啦因為這是產業面的部分是經濟部為主但是交通部的部分在客車的部分其實是有加入一些計畫的那\n196329\t219812\t對於貨車的部分可能我們還沒有因為對交通部來講委員說的沒有錯交通部最大的問題容量的問題交通容量的問題那另外就是說公共運輸的部分所以我們著眼點先從客運的部分客運的大型車的部分這個上次我在這邊也罵過了在貨跟在的哪一個比較麻煩哪一個難度比較高\n221548\t241390\t應該是載人比較高啦載人的難度比較高啊對不對你載人不是只有從A點到B點啦你載人會有車上會有新操的問題你會有緊急的醫療的問題你要再去其他地方啊對不對人就是會產生講直接一點人會產生額外的其他的麻煩的問題或不會甚至可能發生事故的時候\n243057\t264107\t如果說是載客的話那會是非常嚴重的一個社會事件如果是載貨而已的話那是會是一個很單純的財損問題而已所以說當初我不知道為什麼當初交通部跟經濟部在討論這件事情的時候會從自駕公車開始那包括自駕公車就是考量到公共運輸對那考量到自駕公車他可能他沒有辦法\n264847\t276162\t他的規模性可能沒有辦法放大因為就算今天你在特定的點淡水那一邊新市鎮有試辦難不成你淡水試辦成功的點你有辦法外擴到中和永和嗎板橋嗎你不可能外擴嘛你試辦點結束之後\n280768\t308733\t就是你整個計畫結束了你很難去擴張到其他地方但是貨運不是貨運就是道路系統、高速公路系統、快速道路系統你只要能夠成功你在所有的點都能夠是成功那加上我們的高速公路跟我們的快速道路相對起來是封閉的高速公路是絕對是最安全的道路系統只有汽車快速道路可能還會有重型計車大型的重型機所以說高速公路相對起來是最安全\n310410\t337748\t對於實驗者來說他是一個最好去試驗的一個沙盒的場域當然對高速公路局來說他當然不希望嘛因為當高速公路可能發生事故的時候對他來說車速比較快等等每個單位有不同的考慮的因素但是我在看到這份報告的時候我會認為說我們好像就是都在提一些過去比較傳統的一些解決的方針我們沒有利用現在世界科技的一個發展利用自駕的技術來解決我們現在面對的問題\n340470\t359749\t那不曉得我們部長經過我們這樣子的討論那你對於未來不管是對於我們駕駛短缺我們當然駕駛的平均制度絕對最重要的就是安全嘛對不對那對於這樣子的一個自駕技術部長未來你自己的觀念的看法跟未來可能會怎麼引領交通部來跟這個世界潮流來做一個間接\n360530\t382415\t我覺得委員你的建議很好而且很具體就是說朝自駕的方向大概是人類的趨勢這必然要做各國都在努力當中雖然沒有做到很具體而且非常可靠的系統還沒出來但台灣在這個部分也很努力所以才會有這個機場T3的那個外面的營運的部分是希望是用自駕系統\n382975\t404950\t那這個部分其實也是我們希望投入一些資源能夠下去做研發跟研究那這個部分當然委員您所提供的就是針對貨運的部分我們回去來研議看看看有沒有可能貨運會不會相對簡單一些那國道會不會更相對簡單一些或許過去沒有聚焦在討論到這一塊只有針對客運的部分那未來我們針對貨運的部分我們另外再做討論\n405390\t416869\t對 我也希望部長持一個開放的態度然後定確明確的方針跟目標我們不一定要在幾年前但是這是我們交通部未來一定要做一定要引入的一個科技上一次為什麼會在這邊質詢是因為我們的經濟部已經把這樣的技術\n421747\t440059\t行銷到、支援到澳洲去澳洲用我們台灣經濟部的一個輔導的一個技術在澳洲的高速公路來做這件事情結果我們自己的交通部沒有在推廣這件事情那包括日本、包括美國他們都已經在做這件事情了\n440359\t456768\t都應該做這件事情我們的政府已經起步比別人慢了所以我就希望說在這件事情我們就希望能夠部長持一個開放的態度明確的方針我們自己也有科技司馬對不對用科技司來\n458028\t480488\t協助我們的公路局那協助我們的這個高速公路局因為包括我知道公路局也有沙盒實驗嘛因為之前在台六一可能發生一個擦撞對不對你在高速公路局會擦撞到腳踏車嗎不會嘛就是因為你在平面道路如果說你在快速道路你會擦撞到腳踏車嗎不會啊你就是在平面道你才會你跟摩托車跟其他的交通的那個交織的情況一定會更為的\n482378\t491459\t風險更為增加嘛好不好那另外還有提一點啦就是有關我們的這個大客車啦我們過去在大客車的一些制度上面我們常常都是只有\n493626\t511983\t我們沒有一個羅波假設說我們可能你違規怎麼樣的情況那你可能會被吊扣執照我們大概現行的制度都是這樣子而已但是我們沒有針對他說法給相對給他一個好的一個獎勵給他在可能在道路通行上面比較好的一個\n513244\t530326\t行駛的一個條件我其實之前有具體提過一個建議啦我們現在的雪山隧道其實禁止大貨車通行的那當然裡面有一些消防的考量那還有其他考量其實我都跟幕僚單位提過啦我提出的問題我幕僚單位提說真的也都沒辦法明確的回應我也不敢再來啦\n531735\t554594\t但是我們現在台二線每天走瑞芳到貢寮芙蓉貢寮到宜蘭每天大貨車就是繞那麼一大段繞那麼一大段然後每年發生的事故都那麼多一部分走那麼大段駕駛會疲勞另外一個部分道路條件不是那麼好那我們有沒有可能考慮讓那些優良的駕駛我們可以說3年內5年內你沒有發生過\n559458\t587076\t一些我們可以訂定一些違規的一些項目嘛你只要符合這些違規項目我可以試著讓你在離峰的時間去走國五這樣子的一個方案我覺得有時候我們也可以試著在其他我這個只是舉一個例子而已我們在針對大客車的駕駛管制這方面有時候或許是可以用一些獎勵的措施鼓勵他們平常就要守法那你平常只要守法不違規那我可能\n588277\t594609\t我可以相信你這個價值是可以去做我們平常去限制的一些事情好不好 那以上部長謝謝 明天考慮一下 謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝召委員 麻煩邀請我們的陳部長好 陳部長好 部長 早安喔 委員好\n今天有討論到我們公路大型客貨運駕駛短缺的問題其實我在今年的上半年也有在交委會有質詢一個議題那時候你還不在那我就是跟交通部建議應該要推動高速公路的自動駕駛的一個系統\n不曉得如果說部長聽到這樣的建議你認為推動高速公路或者是快速道路的一個自駕的貨車的這個開放啦就是開放他們這樣子的運行對我們的交通部有哪些好處\n第一個當然是勞力的部分可以減少那第二個如果那個系統是可靠而又可信的話那那個安全度或許會比人還高一些但是第三個問題是說目前為止很像台灣還沒有發展我們就先講好處啦好處就前面那兩個還有一個當天其實我主要的論述點有兩個第一個就剛剛部長講的\n未來自駕技術一定比人開車還來的安全這是我們可以看、絕對看得到的目標現在不一定,但是未來一定是這樣子以及我們可以紓解我們的目前道路擁捨的情形因為我們的高速公路目前塵封了運輸的情況非常的擁捨那可以只要有自駕系統我們可以把自駕的運輸量移到離峰這是可以目前看得到對我們運輸有立即的好處那另外連帶的好處就是我們的這個\n人力短缺的問題可以連帶的來獲得一些紓緩但是在那一次的質詢之後交通部一直給我 我感覺交通部一直給我搞錯方向好像交通部一直以為我要推動臺灣的自駕系統的一個推進但是我的立場是說應該是我 所以說之後交通部一直去找經濟部希望經濟部來主導這件事情\n因為自駕確實是我們經濟部在推的但是我為什麼會來質詢我們交通部因為現在是我們交通部遇到的問題我們交通部遇到了道路容量不夠的問題我們交通部遇到了可能這個事故我們希望它降低的一個問題第三個我們交通部遇到了人力短缺的問題這都是我們交通部遇到的問題應該是我們遇到問題的單位去尋求其他可以來幫我們解決問題的單位一起找他來幫忙\n而不是把我在這邊詢問的問題推給經濟部所以說我希望說我們的交通部在未來是不是能夠明確的推出有關於我們大貨車、自駕的一個未來的一個明確的政治的一個政策的一個方針跟目標\n報告委員在大客車的部分它的自駕的發展的部分其實交通部是有參與的不是只有經濟部那當然經濟部為主啦因為這是產業面的部分是經濟部為主但是交通部的部分在客車的部分其實是有加入一些計畫的那\n對於貨車的部分可能我們還沒有因為對交通部來講委員說的沒有錯交通部最大的問題容量的問題交通容量的問題那另外就是說公共運輸的部分所以我們著眼點先從客運的部分客運的大型車的部分這個上次我在這邊也罵過了在貨跟在的哪一個比較麻煩哪一個難度比較高\n應該是載人比較高啦載人的難度比較高啊對不對你載人不是只有從A點到B點啦你載人會有車上會有新操的問題你會有緊急的醫療的問題你要再去其他地方啊對不對人就是會產生講直接一點人會產生額外的其他的麻煩的問題或不會甚至可能發生事故的時候\n如果說是載客的話那會是非常嚴重的一個社會事件如果是載貨而已的話那是會是一個很單純的財損問題而已所以說當初我不知道為什麼當初交通部跟經濟部在討論這件事情的時候會從自駕公車開始那包括自駕公車就是考量到公共運輸對那考量到自駕公車他可能他沒有辦法\n他的規模性可能沒有辦法放大因為就算今天你在特定的點淡水那一邊新市鎮有試辦難不成你淡水試辦成功的點你有辦法外擴到中和永和嗎板橋嗎你不可能外擴嘛你試辦點結束之後\n就是你整個計畫結束了你很難去擴張到其他地方但是貨運不是貨運就是道路系統、高速公路系統、快速道路系統你只要能夠成功你在所有的點都能夠是成功那加上我們的高速公路跟我們的快速道路相對起來是封閉的高速公路是絕對是最安全的道路系統只有汽車快速道路可能還會有重型計車大型的重型機所以說高速公路相對起來是最安全\n對於實驗者來說他是一個最好去試驗的一個沙盒的場域當然對高速公路局來說他當然不希望嘛因為當高速公路可能發生事故的時候對他來說車速比較快等等每個單位有不同的考慮的因素但是我在看到這份報告的時候我會認為說我們好像就是都在提一些過去比較傳統的一些解決的方針我們沒有利用現在世界科技的一個發展利用自駕的技術來解決我們現在面對的問題\n那不曉得我們部長經過我們這樣子的討論那你對於未來不管是對於我們駕駛短缺我們當然駕駛的平均制度絕對最重要的就是安全嘛對不對那對於這樣子的一個自駕技術部長未來你自己的觀念的看法跟未來可能會怎麼引領交通部來跟這個世界潮流來做一個間接\n我覺得委員你的建議很好而且很具體就是說朝自駕的方向大概是人類的趨勢這必然要做各國都在努力當中雖然沒有做到很具體而且非常可靠的系統還沒出來但台灣在這個部分也很努力所以才會有這個機場T3的那個外面的營運的部分是希望是用自駕系統\n那這個部分其實也是我們希望投入一些資源能夠下去做研發跟研究那這個部分當然委員您所提供的就是針對貨運的部分我們回去來研議看看看有沒有可能貨運會不會相對簡單一些那國道會不會更相對簡單一些或許過去沒有聚焦在討論到這一塊只有針對客運的部分那未來我們針對貨運的部分我們另外再做討論\n對 我也希望部長持一個開放的態度然後定確明確的方針跟目標我們不一定要在幾年前但是這是我們交通部未來一定要做一定要引入的一個科技上一次為什麼會在這邊質詢是因為我們的經濟部已經把這樣的技術\n行銷到、支援到澳洲去澳洲用我們台灣經濟部的一個輔導的一個技術在澳洲的高速公路來做這件事情結果我們自己的交通部沒有在推廣這件事情那包括日本、包括美國他們都已經在做這件事情了\n都應該做這件事情我們的政府已經起步比別人慢了所以我就希望說在這件事情我們就希望能夠部長持一個開放的態度明確的方針我們自己也有科技司馬對不對用科技司來\n協助我們的公路局那協助我們的這個高速公路局因為包括我知道公路局也有沙盒實驗嘛因為之前在台六一可能發生一個擦撞對不對你在高速公路局會擦撞到腳踏車嗎不會嘛就是因為你在平面道路如果說你在快速道路你會擦撞到腳踏車嗎不會啊你就是在平面道你才會你跟摩托車跟其他的交通的那個交織的情況一定會更為的\n風險更為增加嘛好不好那另外還有提一點啦就是有關我們的這個大客車啦我們過去在大客車的一些制度上面我們常常都是只有\n我們沒有一個羅波假設說我們可能你違規怎麼樣的情況那你可能會被吊扣執照我們大概現行的制度都是這樣子而已但是我們沒有針對他說法給相對給他一個好的一個獎勵給他在可能在道路通行上面比較好的一個\n行駛的一個條件我其實之前有具體提過一個建議啦我們現在的雪山隧道其實禁止大貨車通行的那當然裡面有一些消防的考量那還有其他考量其實我都跟幕僚單位提過啦我提出的問題我幕僚單位提說真的也都沒辦法明確的回應我也不敢再來啦\n但是我們現在台二線每天走瑞芳到貢寮芙蓉貢寮到宜蘭每天大貨車就是繞那麼一大段繞那麼一大段然後每年發生的事故都那麼多一部分走那麼大段駕駛會疲勞另外一個部分道路條件不是那麼好那我們有沒有可能考慮讓那些優良的駕駛我們可以說3年內5年內你沒有發生過\n一些我們可以訂定一些違規的一些項目嘛你只要符合這些違規項目我可以試著讓你在離峰的時間去走國五這樣子的一個方案我覺得有時候我們也可以試著在其他我這個只是舉一個例子而已我們在針對大客車的駕駛管制這方面有時候或許是可以用一些獎勵的措施鼓勵他們平常就要守法那你平常只要守法不違規那我可能\n我可以相信你這個價值是可以去做我們平常去限制的一些事情好不好 那以上部長謝謝 明天考慮一下 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.120 --> 00:07.507\n好謝謝召委員麻煩邀請我們的陳部長好陳部長好部長早安喔委員好\n\n00:16.211 --> 00:36.889\n今天有討論到我們公路大型客貨運駕駛短缺的問題其實我在今年的上半年也有在交委會有質詢一個議題那時候你還不在那我就是跟交通部建議應該要推動高速公路的自動駕駛的一個系統\n\n00:42.008 --> 00:55.024\n不曉得如果說部長聽到這樣的建議你認為推動高速公路或者是快速道路的一個自駕的貨車的這個開放啦就是開放他們這樣子的運行對我們的交通部有哪些好處\n\n00:56.329 --> 01:17.800\n第一個當然是勞力的部分可以減少那第二個如果那個系統是可靠而又可信的話那那個安全度或許會比人還高一些但是第三個問題是說目前為止很像台灣還沒有發展我們就先講好處啦好處就前面那兩個還有一個當天其實我主要的論述點有兩個第一個就剛剛部長講的\n\n01:18.880 --> 01:46.442\n未來自駕技術一定比人開車還來的安全這是我們可以看、絕對看得到的目標現在不一定,但是未來一定是這樣子以及我們可以紓解我們的目前道路擁捨的情形因為我們的高速公路目前塵封了運輸的情況非常的擁捨那可以只要有自駕系統我們可以把自駕的運輸量移到離峰這是可以目前看得到對我們運輸有立即的好處那另外連帶的好處就是我們的這個\n\n01:47.463 --> 02:10.869\n人力短缺的問題可以連帶的來獲得一些紓緩但是在那一次的質詢之後交通部一直給我我感覺交通部一直給我搞錯方向好像交通部一直以為我要推動臺灣的自駕系統的一個推進但是我的立場是說應該是我所以說之後交通部一直去找經濟部希望經濟部來主導這件事情\n\n02:11.269 --> 02:37.167\n因為自駕確實是我們經濟部在推的但是我為什麼會來質詢我們交通部因為現在是我們交通部遇到的問題我們交通部遇到了道路容量不夠的問題我們交通部遇到了可能這個事故我們希望它降低的一個問題第三個我們交通部遇到了人力短缺的問題這都是我們交通部遇到的問題應該是我們遇到問題的單位去尋求其他可以來幫我們解決問題的單位一起找他來幫忙\n\n02:40.109 --> 02:45.092\n而不是把我在這邊詢問的問題推給經濟部所以說我希望說我們的交通部在未來是不是能夠明確的推出有關於我們大貨車、自駕的一個未來的一個明確的政治的一個政策的一個方針跟目標\n\n03:00.772 --> 03:14.708\n報告委員在大客車的部分它的自駕的發展的部分其實交通部是有參與的不是只有經濟部那當然經濟部為主啦因為這是產業面的部分是經濟部為主但是交通部的部分在客車的部分其實是有加入一些計畫的那\n\n03:16.329 --> 03:39.812\n對於貨車的部分可能我們還沒有因為對交通部來講委員說的沒有錯交通部最大的問題容量的問題交通容量的問題那另外就是說公共運輸的部分所以我們著眼點先從客運的部分客運的大型車的部分這個上次我在這邊也罵過了在貨跟在的哪一個比較麻煩哪一個難度比較高\n\n03:41.548 --> 04:01.390\n應該是載人比較高啦載人的難度比較高啊對不對你載人不是只有從A點到B點啦你載人會有車上會有新操的問題你會有緊急的醫療的問題你要再去其他地方啊對不對人就是會產生講直接一點人會產生額外的其他的麻煩的問題或不會甚至可能發生事故的時候\n\n04:03.057 --> 04:24.107\n如果說是載客的話那會是非常嚴重的一個社會事件如果是載貨而已的話那是會是一個很單純的財損問題而已所以說當初我不知道為什麼當初交通部跟經濟部在討論這件事情的時候會從自駕公車開始那包括自駕公車就是考量到公共運輸對那考量到自駕公車他可能他沒有辦法\n\n04:24.847 --> 04:36.162\n他的規模性可能沒有辦法放大因為就算今天你在特定的點淡水那一邊新市鎮有試辦難不成你淡水試辦成功的點你有辦法外擴到中和永和嗎板橋嗎你不可能外擴嘛你試辦點結束之後\n\n04:40.768 --> 05:08.733\n就是你整個計畫結束了你很難去擴張到其他地方但是貨運不是貨運就是道路系統、高速公路系統、快速道路系統你只要能夠成功你在所有的點都能夠是成功那加上我們的高速公路跟我們的快速道路相對起來是封閉的高速公路是絕對是最安全的道路系統只有汽車快速道路可能還會有重型計車大型的重型機所以說高速公路相對起來是最安全\n\n05:10.410 --> 05:37.748\n對於實驗者來說他是一個最好去試驗的一個沙盒的場域當然對高速公路局來說他當然不希望嘛因為當高速公路可能發生事故的時候對他來說車速比較快等等每個單位有不同的考慮的因素但是我在看到這份報告的時候我會認為說我們好像就是都在提一些過去比較傳統的一些解決的方針我們沒有利用現在世界科技的一個發展利用自駕的技術來解決我們現在面對的問題\n\n05:40.470 --> 05:59.749\n那不曉得我們部長經過我們這樣子的討論那你對於未來不管是對於我們駕駛短缺我們當然駕駛的平均制度絕對最重要的就是安全嘛對不對那對於這樣子的一個自駕技術部長未來你自己的觀念的看法跟未來可能會怎麼引領交通部來跟這個世界潮流來做一個間接\n\n06:00.530 --> 06:22.415\n我覺得委員你的建議很好而且很具體就是說朝自駕的方向大概是人類的趨勢這必然要做各國都在努力當中雖然沒有做到很具體而且非常可靠的系統還沒出來但台灣在這個部分也很努力所以才會有這個機場T3的那個外面的營運的部分是希望是用自駕系統\n\n06:22.975 --> 06:44.950\n那這個部分其實也是我們希望投入一些資源能夠下去做研發跟研究那這個部分當然委員您所提供的就是針對貨運的部分我們回去來研議看看看有沒有可能貨運會不會相對簡單一些那國道會不會更相對簡單一些或許過去沒有聚焦在討論到這一塊只有針對客運的部分那未來我們針對貨運的部分我們另外再做討論\n\n06:45.390 --> 06:56.869\n對我也希望部長持一個開放的態度然後定確明確的方針跟目標我們不一定要在幾年前但是這是我們交通部未來一定要做一定要引入的一個科技上一次為什麼會在這邊質詢是因為我們的經濟部已經把這樣的技術\n\n07:01.747 --> 07:20.059\n行銷到、支援到澳洲去澳洲用我們台灣經濟部的一個輔導的一個技術在澳洲的高速公路來做這件事情結果我們自己的交通部沒有在推廣這件事情那包括日本、包括美國他們都已經在做這件事情了\n\n07:20.359 --> 07:36.768\n都應該做這件事情我們的政府已經起步比別人慢了所以我就希望說在這件事情我們就希望能夠部長持一個開放的態度明確的方針我們自己也有科技司馬對不對用科技司來\n\n07:38.028 --> 08:00.488\n協助我們的公路局那協助我們的這個高速公路局因為包括我知道公路局也有沙盒實驗嘛因為之前在台六一可能發生一個擦撞對不對你在高速公路局會擦撞到腳踏車嗎不會嘛就是因為你在平面道路如果說你在快速道路你會擦撞到腳踏車嗎不會啊你就是在平面道你才會你跟摩托車跟其他的交通的那個交織的情況一定會更為的\n\n08:02.378 --> 08:11.459\n風險更為增加嘛好不好那另外還有提一點啦就是有關我們的這個大客車啦我們過去在大客車的一些制度上面我們常常都是只有\n\n08:13.626 --> 08:31.983\n我們沒有一個羅波假設說我們可能你違規怎麼樣的情況那你可能會被吊扣執照我們大概現行的制度都是這樣子而已但是我們沒有針對他說法給相對給他一個好的一個獎勵給他在可能在道路通行上面比較好的一個\n\n08:33.244 --> 08:50.326\n行駛的一個條件我其實之前有具體提過一個建議啦我們現在的雪山隧道其實禁止大貨車通行的那當然裡面有一些消防的考量那還有其他考量其實我都跟幕僚單位提過啦我提出的問題我幕僚單位提說真的也都沒辦法明確的回應我也不敢再來啦\n\n08:51.735 --> 09:14.594\n但是我們現在台二線每天走瑞芳到貢寮芙蓉貢寮到宜蘭每天大貨車就是繞那麼一大段繞那麼一大段然後每年發生的事故都那麼多一部分走那麼大段駕駛會疲勞另外一個部分道路條件不是那麼好那我們有沒有可能考慮讓那些優良的駕駛我們可以說3年內5年內你沒有發生過\n\n09:19.458 --> 09:47.076\n一些我們可以訂定一些違規的一些項目嘛你只要符合這些違規項目我可以試著讓你在離峰的時間去走國五這樣子的一個方案我覺得有時候我們也可以試著在其他我這個只是舉一個例子而已我們在針對大客車的駕駛管制這方面有時候或許是可以用一些獎勵的措施鼓勵他們平常就要守法那你平常只要守法不違規那我可能\n\n09:48.277 --> 09:54.609\n我可以相信你這個價值是可以去做我們平常去限制的一些事情好不好那以上部長謝謝明天考慮一下謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.12,"end":7.507,"text":"好 謝謝召委員 麻煩邀請我們的陳部長好 陳部長好 部長 早安喔 委員好"},{"start":16.211,"end":36.889,"text":"今天有討論到我們公路大型客貨運駕駛短缺的問題其實我在今年的上半年也有在交委會有質詢一個議題那時候你還不在那我就是跟交通部建議應該要推動高速公路的自動駕駛的一個系統"},{"start":42.008,"end":55.024,"text":"不曉得如果說部長聽到這樣的建議你認為推動高速公路或者是快速道路的一個自駕的貨車的這個開放啦就是開放他們這樣子的運行對我們的交通部有哪些好處"},{"start":56.329,"end":77.8,"text":"第一個當然是勞力的部分可以減少那第二個如果那個系統是可靠而又可信的話那那個安全度或許會比人還高一些但是第三個問題是說目前為止很像台灣還沒有發展我們就先講好處啦好處就前面那兩個還有一個當天其實我主要的論述點有兩個第一個就剛剛部長講的"},{"start":78.88,"end":106.442,"text":"未來自駕技術一定比人開車還來的安全這是我們可以看、絕對看得到的目標現在不一定,但是未來一定是這樣子以及我們可以紓解我們的目前道路擁捨的情形因為我們的高速公路目前塵封了運輸的情況非常的擁捨那可以只要有自駕系統我們可以把自駕的運輸量移到離峰這是可以目前看得到對我們運輸有立即的好處那另外連帶的好處就是我們的這個"},{"start":107.463,"end":130.869,"text":"人力短缺的問題可以連帶的來獲得一些紓緩但是在那一次的質詢之後交通部一直給我 我感覺交通部一直給我搞錯方向好像交通部一直以為我要推動臺灣的自駕系統的一個推進但是我的立場是說應該是我 所以說之後交通部一直去找經濟部希望經濟部來主導這件事情"},{"start":131.269,"end":157.167,"text":"因為自駕確實是我們經濟部在推的但是我為什麼會來質詢我們交通部因為現在是我們交通部遇到的問題我們交通部遇到了道路容量不夠的問題我們交通部遇到了可能這個事故我們希望它降低的一個問題第三個我們交通部遇到了人力短缺的問題這都是我們交通部遇到的問題應該是我們遇到問題的單位去尋求其他可以來幫我們解決問題的單位一起找他來幫忙"},{"start":160.109,"end":165.092,"text":"而不是把我在這邊詢問的問題推給經濟部所以說我希望說我們的交通部在未來是不是能夠明確的推出有關於我們大貨車、自駕的一個未來的一個明確的政治的一個政策的一個方針跟目標"},{"start":180.772,"end":194.708,"text":"報告委員在大客車的部分它的自駕的發展的部分其實交通部是有參與的不是只有經濟部那當然經濟部為主啦因為這是產業面的部分是經濟部為主但是交通部的部分在客車的部分其實是有加入一些計畫的那"},{"start":196.329,"end":219.812,"text":"對於貨車的部分可能我們還沒有因為對交通部來講委員說的沒有錯交通部最大的問題容量的問題交通容量的問題那另外就是說公共運輸的部分所以我們著眼點先從客運的部分客運的大型車的部分這個上次我在這邊也罵過了在貨跟在的哪一個比較麻煩哪一個難度比較高"},{"start":221.548,"end":241.39,"text":"應該是載人比較高啦載人的難度比較高啊對不對你載人不是只有從A點到B點啦你載人會有車上會有新操的問題你會有緊急的醫療的問題你要再去其他地方啊對不對人就是會產生講直接一點人會產生額外的其他的麻煩的問題或不會甚至可能發生事故的時候"},{"start":243.057,"end":264.107,"text":"如果說是載客的話那會是非常嚴重的一個社會事件如果是載貨而已的話那是會是一個很單純的財損問題而已所以說當初我不知道為什麼當初交通部跟經濟部在討論這件事情的時候會從自駕公車開始那包括自駕公車就是考量到公共運輸對那考量到自駕公車他可能他沒有辦法"},{"start":264.847,"end":276.162,"text":"他的規模性可能沒有辦法放大因為就算今天你在特定的點淡水那一邊新市鎮有試辦難不成你淡水試辦成功的點你有辦法外擴到中和永和嗎板橋嗎你不可能外擴嘛你試辦點結束之後"},{"start":280.768,"end":308.733,"text":"就是你整個計畫結束了你很難去擴張到其他地方但是貨運不是貨運就是道路系統、高速公路系統、快速道路系統你只要能夠成功你在所有的點都能夠是成功那加上我們的高速公路跟我們的快速道路相對起來是封閉的高速公路是絕對是最安全的道路系統只有汽車快速道路可能還會有重型計車大型的重型機所以說高速公路相對起來是最安全"},{"start":310.41,"end":337.748,"text":"對於實驗者來說他是一個最好去試驗的一個沙盒的場域當然對高速公路局來說他當然不希望嘛因為當高速公路可能發生事故的時候對他來說車速比較快等等每個單位有不同的考慮的因素但是我在看到這份報告的時候我會認為說我們好像就是都在提一些過去比較傳統的一些解決的方針我們沒有利用現在世界科技的一個發展利用自駕的技術來解決我們現在面對的問題"},{"start":340.47,"end":359.749,"text":"那不曉得我們部長經過我們這樣子的討論那你對於未來不管是對於我們駕駛短缺我們當然駕駛的平均制度絕對最重要的就是安全嘛對不對那對於這樣子的一個自駕技術部長未來你自己的觀念的看法跟未來可能會怎麼引領交通部來跟這個世界潮流來做一個間接"},{"start":360.53,"end":382.415,"text":"我覺得委員你的建議很好而且很具體就是說朝自駕的方向大概是人類的趨勢這必然要做各國都在努力當中雖然沒有做到很具體而且非常可靠的系統還沒出來但台灣在這個部分也很努力所以才會有這個機場T3的那個外面的營運的部分是希望是用自駕系統"},{"start":382.975,"end":404.95,"text":"那這個部分其實也是我們希望投入一些資源能夠下去做研發跟研究那這個部分當然委員您所提供的就是針對貨運的部分我們回去來研議看看看有沒有可能貨運會不會相對簡單一些那國道會不會更相對簡單一些或許過去沒有聚焦在討論到這一塊只有針對客運的部分那未來我們針對貨運的部分我們另外再做討論"},{"start":405.39,"end":416.869,"text":"對 我也希望部長持一個開放的態度然後定確明確的方針跟目標我們不一定要在幾年前但是這是我們交通部未來一定要做一定要引入的一個科技上一次為什麼會在這邊質詢是因為我們的經濟部已經把這樣的技術"},{"start":421.747,"end":440.059,"text":"行銷到、支援到澳洲去澳洲用我們台灣經濟部的一個輔導的一個技術在澳洲的高速公路來做這件事情結果我們自己的交通部沒有在推廣這件事情那包括日本、包括美國他們都已經在做這件事情了"},{"start":440.359,"end":456.768,"text":"都應該做這件事情我們的政府已經起步比別人慢了所以我就希望說在這件事情我們就希望能夠部長持一個開放的態度明確的方針我們自己也有科技司馬對不對用科技司來"},{"start":458.028,"end":480.488,"text":"協助我們的公路局那協助我們的這個高速公路局因為包括我知道公路局也有沙盒實驗嘛因為之前在台六一可能發生一個擦撞對不對你在高速公路局會擦撞到腳踏車嗎不會嘛就是因為你在平面道路如果說你在快速道路你會擦撞到腳踏車嗎不會啊你就是在平面道你才會你跟摩托車跟其他的交通的那個交織的情況一定會更為的"},{"start":482.378,"end":491.459,"text":"風險更為增加嘛好不好那另外還有提一點啦就是有關我們的這個大客車啦我們過去在大客車的一些制度上面我們常常都是只有"},{"start":493.626,"end":511.983,"text":"我們沒有一個羅波假設說我們可能你違規怎麼樣的情況那你可能會被吊扣執照我們大概現行的制度都是這樣子而已但是我們沒有針對他說法給相對給他一個好的一個獎勵給他在可能在道路通行上面比較好的一個"},{"start":513.244,"end":530.326,"text":"行駛的一個條件我其實之前有具體提過一個建議啦我們現在的雪山隧道其實禁止大貨車通行的那當然裡面有一些消防的考量那還有其他考量其實我都跟幕僚單位提過啦我提出的問題我幕僚單位提說真的也都沒辦法明確的回應我也不敢再來啦"},{"start":531.735,"end":554.594,"text":"但是我們現在台二線每天走瑞芳到貢寮芙蓉貢寮到宜蘭每天大貨車就是繞那麼一大段繞那麼一大段然後每年發生的事故都那麼多一部分走那麼大段駕駛會疲勞另外一個部分道路條件不是那麼好那我們有沒有可能考慮讓那些優良的駕駛我們可以說3年內5年內你沒有發生過"},{"start":559.458,"end":587.076,"text":"一些我們可以訂定一些違規的一些項目嘛你只要符合這些違規項目我可以試著讓你在離峰的時間去走國五這樣子的一個方案我覺得有時候我們也可以試著在其他我這個只是舉一個例子而已我們在針對大客車的駕駛管制這方面有時候或許是可以用一些獎勵的措施鼓勵他們平常就要守法那你平常只要守法不違規那我可能"},{"start":588.277,"end":594.609,"text":"我可以相信你這個價值是可以去做我們平常去限制的一些事情好不好 那以上部長謝謝 明天考慮一下 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":303,"blocks":[["廖委員先翔：（10時27分）謝謝召委，麻煩邀請陳部長。"],["主席：陳部長。"],["廖委員先翔：部長早安。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["廖委員先翔：今天有討論到我們公路大型客貨運駕駛短缺的問題，其實我在今年的上半年也有在交委會質詢一個議題，那時候你還不在，我就是跟交通部建議應該要推動高速公路的自動駕駛系統，如果部長聽到這樣的建議，你認為推動開放在高速公路或快速道路的自駕貨車，就是開放他們這樣的運行，對我們的交通部有哪些好處？"],["陳部長世凱：第一個當然是勞力的部分可以減少……"],["廖委員先翔：是。"],["陳部長世凱：第二個，如果那個系統是可靠而又可信的話，那個安全度或許會比人還高一些些……"],["廖委員先翔：是。"],["陳部長世凱：但是第三個問題是到目前為止很像臺灣還沒有發展出這樣的系統……"],["廖委員先翔：沒關係，我們就先講好處。"],["陳部長世凱：好處就是前面那兩個。"],["廖委員先翔：還有一個，當天我主要的論述點有兩個，第一個就是剛剛部長講的，未來自駕技術一定比人開車還還來得安全，這是我們絕對看得到的目標，現在還不一定，但是未來一定是這樣子。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["廖委員先翔：還有就是我們可以紓解目前道路壅塞的情形，因為我們的高速公路在尖峰運輸的情況非常壅塞，只要有自駕系統，我們可以把自駕的運輸量移到離峰，這是在目前看得到對我們的運輸有立即的好處。那另外一個好處就是我們人力短缺的問題可以連帶的獲得一些舒緩。但是在那一次的質詢之後，我感覺交通部一直搞錯方向，交通部好像一直以為我要在臺灣推動自駕系統，所以之後交通部一直去找經濟部，希望經濟部來主導這件事情，因為自駕確實是經濟部在推的，但是我為什麼會來質詢交通部？因為現在是交通部遇到的問題，交通部遇到了道路容量不夠的問題，交通部遇到了希望事故降低的問題，第三個是交通部遇到了人力短缺的問題，這都是交通部遇到的問題，應該是遇到問題的單位去尋求其他可以來幫我們解決問題的單位，找它一起來幫忙，而不是把我在這邊詢問的問題推給經濟部。所以我希望交通部在未來是不是能夠明確的推出有關於大貨車自駕的明確政策方針跟目標？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，在大客車的部分，針對它自駕發展的部分，其實交通部是有參與的，不是只有經濟部，當然是經濟部為主，因為這是產業面的部分，所以是經濟部為主，但是交通部在客車的部分，其實是有加入一些計畫的。對於貨車的部分我們可能還沒有，因為對交通部來講，委員說的沒有錯，交通部最大的問題是交通容量的問題，另外就是公共運輸的部分，所以我們的著眼點先從客運大型車的部分先開始。"],["廖委員先翔：這個上次我在這邊也罵過了，載貨跟載人哪個比較麻煩？哪一個難度比較高？"],["陳部長世凱：應該是載人的難度比較高。"],["廖委員先翔：載人的難度比較高，對不對？你載人不是只有從A點到B點，你載人在車上會有性騷的問題、會有緊急醫療的問題，你要把人載去其他地方，對不對？講直接一點，人就是會產生額外的、其他的麻煩的問題，但是貨不會。甚至可能發生事故的時候，如果是載客的話，那會是非常嚴重的社會事件；如果是載貨的話，那會是很單純的財損問題而已，所以我不知道為什麼當初交通部跟經濟部在討論這件事情的時候會從自駕公車開始？包括自駕公車……"],["陳部長世凱：這是考量到公共運輸的部分。"],["廖委員先翔：對，考量到自駕公車的規模性可能沒有辦法放大，因為就算今天你在特定的點，像淡水那邊的新市鎮有試辦，難不成淡水試辦成功的點你有辦法外擴到中和、永和、板橋嗎？你不可能外擴嘛！你試辦點結束之後，就是你整個計畫的結束了，你很難擴張到其他地方。但貨運不是，貨運就是道路系統、高速公路系統、快速道路系統你只要能夠成功，你在所有的點都能夠試成功，加上我們的高速公路跟我們的快速道路相對起來是封閉的，高速公路絕對是最單純的道路系統，只有汽車，快速道路可能還會有大型的重機，所以高速公路相對起來是最安全，對於實驗者來說，它是一個最好去試驗的沙盒場域。對高速公路局來說，它當然不希望，因為上高速公路可能發生事故的時候，對它來說車速比較快等等，每個單位有不同的考慮因素。但是我在看到這份報告的時候，我會認為好像都在提一些過去比較傳統的解決方針，沒有利用現在世界科技的發展、利用自駕的技術來解決我們現在面對的問題。不曉得部長經過我們這樣的討論，對於未來不管是駕駛短缺，當然駕駛的評鑑制度最重要的絕對是安全，對不對？或者這樣子的自駕技術，部長你自己有什麼觀念和看法？未來可能會怎麼引領交通部來跟世界潮流介接？"],["陳部長世凱：我覺得委員你的建議很好，而且很具體，就是說朝自駕的方向大概是人類的趨勢，這必然要做，各國都在努力當中，雖然沒有做到很具體，而且非常可靠的系統還沒出來，但臺灣在這個部分也很努力，所以才會有機場T3外面營運的部分希望是用自駕系統，這個部分其實也是我們希望投入一些資源，能夠下去做研發跟研究。針對這個部分，當然委員您所提供針對貨運的部分，我們回去之後來研議看看，看有沒有可能貨運相對簡單一些，國道會不會更相對簡單一些，或許過去沒有聚焦在討論這一塊，只有針對客運的部分，未來我們針對貨運的部分另外再做討論。"],["廖委員先翔：我希望部長持一個開放的態度，然後訂定明確的方針跟目標，不一定要在幾年前，但這是交通部未來一定要做、一定要引入科技。上一次為什麼會在這邊質詢？是因為經濟部已經把這樣的技術行銷、支援到澳洲去，澳洲用臺灣經濟部輔導的技術，在澳洲的高速公路來做這件事情，結果我們自己的交通部沒有在推廣這件事情。包括日本、美國他們都已經在做這件事情了，我們的交通部起步已經比別人慢了，所以我希望針對這件事情，部長能夠持一個開放的態度，訂定明確的方針，我們自己也有科技司對不對？用科技司來協助公路局及高速公路局，據我所知公路局也有沙盒實驗，因為之前在台61可能有發生一個擦撞，對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["廖委員先翔：你在高速公路會擦撞到腳踏車嗎？不會嘛！那是因為你在平面道路，如果說你在快速道路，你會擦撞到腳踏車嗎？不會啊！就是在平面段，你跟摩托車、跟其他交通工具交織的風險一定會更為增加嘛！","另外再提一點，就是有關大客車的部分，過去在大客車的一些制度上面，常常都是只有棒子而已，我們沒有蘿蔔，假設你違規或是有什麼樣的情況，那你可能會被吊扣執照，大概現行的制度都是這樣子而已，但是我們沒有針對他守法相對給他一個好的獎勵，給他在道路通行上面比較好的行駛條件。其實我之前有具體提過一個建議，現在的雪山隧道其實是禁止大貨車通行的，當然裡面有一些消防的考量，還有其他考量，其實我都跟幕僚單位提過了，針對我提出的問題，幕僚單位說真的也都沒辦法明確的回應，也不敢再來了啦！但是現在走台2線從瑞芳到福隆、貢寮到宜蘭，每天大貨車就是繞那麼一大段，然後每年發生的事故都那麼多，一部分是因為走那麼大段，駕駛會疲勞，另外一個部分是因為道路條件不是那麼好。我們有沒有可能考慮讓那些優良的駕駛，我們可以說三年內、五年內沒有發生過一些事情，我們可以訂定一些違規的項目，你只要符合這些項目，我可以試著讓你在離峰的時間去走國5這樣子的方案，我只是舉例子而已，在針對大客車駕駛的管制上面，有時候或許是可以用一些獎勵的措施鼓勵他們平常就要守法，你平常只要守法不違規，我相信你這個駕駛是可以去做一些我們平常限制的事情，好不好？以上請部長考慮一下，謝謝。"],["陳部長世凱：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席（廖委員先翔代）：下一位麻煩魯明哲召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":366,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-7","speakers":["魯明哲","李昆澤","林國成","林沛祥","林俊憲","許智傑","廖先翔","徐富癸","邱若華","陳雪生","陳素月","蔡其昌","林月琴","李坤城","鍾佳濱","牛煦庭","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","賴惠員","黃健豪","羅廷瑋","羅智強","王鴻薇","何欣純","楊瓊瓔","黃捷","游顥","陳冠廷"],"page_start":289,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1139001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、公平交易委員會主任委員李鎂、數位發展部次長、勞動部次長、衛\n生福利部、經濟部、個人資料保護委員會籌備處及行政院消費者保護處就「外送平台之整併、收\n費指引、個資保護、產業發展、勞工權益及食品物流安全規範」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、\n邀請交通部公路局局長就「公路大型客貨運駕駛短缺之因應措施暨現行遊覽車評鑑制度之檢討與\n精進」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139001_00005"}}}