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00:01:16,833\n你知道新興的遊覽車他個人的然後每天出去我就覺得有一度那是我人生重要的目標真的哇一台大的遊覽車多驕傲那隨著這個不管是車種的變更、駕照的難易度從小車、大車、載貨、載人就覺得我要有一天達到這樣的一個能力\n\n5\n00:01:17,994 --> 00:01:46,248\n可是曾幾何時現在看起來真的大車大不易已經產生時代結構性的變化真是沒辦法剛剛很多委員適當已經說過了大概情況就是這樣我自己再把它像疫情在前兩三年的數字去撈一撈其實確實在過去一個平穩的以公務客運來說它的搭乘的人次一年度有一千多萬人次\n\n6\n00:01:47,208 --> 00:02:02,486\n結果到了113年目前的統計大概減少了非常多報章雜誌也有出來你的專案報告也有寫那班次呢有就減少了很多那事實上這互為因果互為因果\n\n7\n00:02:03,487 --> 00:02:21,237\n那車輛數、路線數都變化很大其實你知道我在擔心什麼這時代的眼淚就這樣嗎會不會要到一種結構性變化要到什麼地步你知道嗎因為它的功能在很多我們的軌道型的交通到不了\n\n8\n00:02:22,057 --> 00:02:36,983\n或者我們政府補助的一些公車它到不了的它很多就是偏鄉它有這樣的一個需求過去能夠撐得住現在撐不住了所以很多人回家路如果再持續減少真的會出問題啊那我也自己也想過啦\n\n9\n00:02:38,629 --> 00:03:00,064\n我們旅客坐公務客運的人越來越少當然有幾個原因第一個我們班次就少了我們路線數就少了對不對我就是要坐新竹這一班你沒有了我不可能去坐台北的那就自然因為隨著我的班次少了車輛少了這個是一定就跟著減少的第二個呢\n\n10\n00:03:01,047 --> 00:03:16,265\n是因為交通很多各線軌道出來了很多的方便的不管是高鐵、台鐵、約會票、T-pass很多原因都會吸引客戶可能去採用其他原本他們有的方式\n\n11\n00:03:17,006 --> 00:03:44,456\n第三個呢因為公路客運他比較會堵車交通狀況難料有時候不是你技術好別人技術不好交通情況不好你都沒有辦法準點到達所以現在手時準時尤其上下班這也是很多人要改搭更準點的交通工序的疑慮最後一個就牽涉到他本身的服務品質如果幾次不好上公路客運被服務的經驗自然會流失\n\n12\n00:03:45,436 --> 00:04:06,269\n如果只是旅客流失的話因為在這個產業有三類人第一個是旅客第二個是駕駛員這個產業才會動但最主要誰買車業者其實我們覺得我們最不希望看到的三件事快要全部發生了旅客不見了駕駛不見了\n\n13\n00:04:11,122 --> 00:04:37,507\n駕駛也不見了其實駕駛不見了剛剛好幾位委員特別有說其中一個重點說能不能提高他的一個福利啊薪資啊讓一些誘因增加誘因讓他們回來包括勞動部啊也希望能夠改善他們的一個環境啊可是除了這個之外我聽到了很多很多的大車的駕駛其實他更擔心的是風險\n\n14\n00:04:39,673 --> 00:05:06,573\n他更承擔了很大很大的壓力我覺得過去網路沒有這麼強的時代你知道嗎發生一件事就一群人知道現在發生一件事情就全世界知道了所以他們壓力是非常非常大而且是車內車外的壓力車外要看清楚絕對不能發生什麼事車內有這麼多的客戶一上來大車坐了三四十個人所以我想部長\n\n15\n00:05:07,984 --> 00:05:12,590\n你對於這整個大車這個產業李鎂不見了駕駛不見了你有什麼樣的看法他的停損點或你覺得說你們在努力讓這個事情不要再持續惡化你們的想法是什麼\n\n16\n00:05:25,287 --> 00:05:44,993\n我想對交通部的立場來講客運的維持是必然必須要的所以我們現在有很多的政策包含幸福巴士希望能夠有偏鄉的這些服務都是透過客運的方式因為我們很清楚知道軌道很便利很安全很可靠但不可能到每一個地方所以客運的維持相當重要我們最近看到\n\n17\n00:05:45,613 --> 00:06:01,383\n這些年來的客運的發展確實也相當憂心所以我看交通部現在有用很大量的補貼跟補助的方案不管是在運費上面或者是在勞動的條件上面就是勞工的部分我們盡量在努力因為委員剛剛講的那三項\n\n18\n00:06:02,344 --> 00:06:20,538\n一直在減少我們最怕業者也減少這個部分我們很不希望發生所以這個部分交通部應該也會再繼續加大力道來協助業者讓他能夠繼續營運下去因為這個對所有的民眾尤其是相對偏鄉的地方行的交通的這個便利性很重要\n\n19\n00:06:21,564 --> 00:06:43,178\n好大概十幾天前在客運業者有說這個缺工20%其實補大概剛好跟離職的人數就勉勉強強大概就維持在那個檔次他都跑到Uber根本徵不到人其實他說對一半啦也不見得是Uber啦很多的產業都有可能是相對低壓的產業我們再看看\n\n20\n00:06:44,246 --> 00:07:13,666\n我們整個運輸啊我們挑了幾類主要大家比較熟、知道的行業別從最簡單的自己騎機車自己開的小貨車如果發生了任何的有壓力的事件就是我一個人單純一點所以從外送、快遞他們就你看快遞業他可能生有貨車他也呈現減少的部分接下來汽車的一個貨運可能比較大的車風險係數大那計程車尤其到公務客運啊他減少的一個比率啊\n\n21\n00:07:14,466 --> 00:07:16,327\n李鎂、數位發展部次長、勞工權益及食品物流安全規範\n\n22\n00:07:35,757 --> 00:07:56,467\n多少因為也沒有路線好跑了沒有路線好跑了我們剛剛大概這5年來就我的體驗在桃園本來有很多的學生專車、大車那之前他們很願意坐現在從最多的112線的載學生早上的班車現在剩81減少好像28%跟你們那個車數減幅其實是蠻類似的\n\n23\n00:08:02,967 --> 00:08:23,260\n我今天要說了今天對業者我是建議我們很多的一個管制為了他更安全這完全合理的沒什麼好說但是有些不必要的一個壓力或者莫名其妙增加工作的你還嫌他活得很好嗎\n\n24\n00:08:24,875 --> 00:08:53,357\n好我們講說我們的價值要加薪但是我們要一個稍微有利潤的他的業者才有可能完成這件事現在目前這個情況幾乎八成都政府在做你跟叫業者加薪他幾乎說喔sorry所以就是地方政府配合公務總局你們交通部在扛這一塊但是能夠扛多久咧我講這個的部分啊業者現在經營的四大困難第一個缺價值他真的很痛苦第二個呢\n\n25\n00:08:55,080 --> 00:09:10,418\n已經很多的至少中型的以下的基本上沒有利潤如果扣掉政府的補助他早就收收回去了第三個我們比較擔心的法規對安全的部分沒有問題但是有些額外的\n\n26\n00:09:11,639 --> 00:09:30,688\n法規的一個衝擊啊就是哇塞我已經這麼難做了你還要我做完功課那我就回家我不幹了包括了你現在的遊覽車的評鑑制度啊另外一類大車喔遊覽車的評鑑制度到底合不合你們從評鑑制度你們去看喔你們現在分類\n\n27\n00:09:32,336 --> 00:10:00,827\n優等、佳等、宜等、不劣等聽起來是不入流的感覺因為前面你看那個加數加起來將近900家那有29家不劣等你這個每次公告我會看到公民眾選遊覽車就是考量嘛這個用意是很和善的你知道嗎民眾還沒參觀到保險公司先拿去參觀了\n\n28\n00:10:02,677 --> 00:10:30,487\n保險公司先拿去所有不劣等的現在狀況是什麼我相信他們工會都跟你說啦你憑這個本來是良法美義的保險公司說不保了第三責任險或者其他額外的險不保了可是這個問題很怪耶因為你們現在憑個甲等乙等不是一台車耶就是你不劣等的一家公司裡面會不會有優等的駕駛\n\n29\n00:10:31,860 --> 00:10:51,525\n後面有10年開遊覽車不出事的可是我告訴你他也沒辦法保所以我是覺得第一個你們現在遊覽車的平台制度如果這個兩罰美益我可以接受你把美益留下來但是造成的負面的效果說你們結果為什麼你們今年就都要停一年\n\n30\n00:10:53,410 --> 00:11:12,428\n等一下因為感覺怪怪的停一年那你停一年不是休息一年明年再炒是要想方設法你們現在想說好吧要把不列等我不知道誰提出來這麼聰明有才智這個人可以用不列等未來改成平等就沒事了\n\n31\n00:11:13,311 --> 00:11:39,180\n我的天啊那保險公司不會看啦優等、佳等、宜等那我就找平等啦所以我倒是覺得如果你平健制度是一個淘汰制度這業者說啊因為有些業者真的他就是品質非常差完全不安全你就抓一趴出來抓一家、兩家出來你這平健制度他慢慢不改善他可以淘汰你這樣子真的保障\n\n32\n00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:58,833\n他的安全也保障坐遊覽車的安全也保障外面行人的安全所以我希望平建制度你真的要改善那有很多業者說現在他們已經真的利潤很少了可是要參加這個平建制度你們的郵寄規則我以為是交一份報告內部討論優等、佳等、宜等、不入等、不列等通出來不是\n\n33\n00:12:08,035 --> 00:12:23,822\n第一波磨啊磨啊報告寫啦有些公司叫公司小姐寫有些比較正做的公司想要拼業績的委外花個10萬、20萬拜託別人然後去做做完第一關叫安全紀錄\n\n34\n00:12:25,043 --> 00:12:44,784\n第一關安全記錄好恭喜得到夾等了再發函給你恭喜你已經入夾等但是你要繼續申請管理部分的科技管理再提一份報告出來你要這個通過之後你如果不申請你就列一等我的天啊我弄了半天\n\n35\n00:12:45,845 --> 00:13:03,535\n我一家公司要到優等的要到優等的要經過兩次的一個評鑑經過你們專家學者我是建議不要這樣搞啦真的不要這樣搞如果你們這麼難判別的話我覺得是你們這個專家學者有問題所以我要拜託各位我做個結論因為業者很多的部分他的壓力真的非常非常大\n\n36\n00:13:14,042 --> 00:13:22,431\n找不到司機也沒利潤法規沒有必要的給他衝擊你知道嗎駕駛出去沒有打又實際例子\n\n37\n00:13:25,487 --> 00:13:46,005\n右轉沒有打方向燈右轉沒打方向燈然後呢被祭奠開罰單你知道嗎這幾天公司總局就派人去公司稽查稽查兩台遊覽車然後那駕駛已經不在這家公司了你們那個制度你聽懂我意思嗎方向燈是誰打的\n\n38\n00:13:47,173 --> 00:14:02,409\n是駕駛的吧是駕駛的責任嘛所以你們現在造成這個業者是不是你們真的要去檢討一下你們要管好但是像這樣的增加負擔的這個部分造成有一些你要讓他沒保險\n\n39\n00:14:03,630 --> 00:14:23,743\n在路上跑你乾脆叫他退場好了啦你們這種制度我是覺得部長是我是覺得這個平間制度要優化了好不好這一定要優化那再來就是您在說那個不能保險的部分我們也已經在幫業者解決我們有去跟金管會跟保險局他們去溝通這個部分要協助業者這一定要做的好謝謝謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n330\t5723\t好,謝謝主席,有請我們交通部陳部長公路局陳局長\n11909\t34545\t好 這個部長跟局長其實今天我要談一個議題因為其實我上次有講過這個外送平台那今天主要的一個焦點在我們大車 大車系列因為不光是我們市區的公車、遊覽車甚至公路客運、國道客運等等的我想先講載人的載人這些大型的客運\n35606\t51968\t那我現在剛剛在想真的像時代的眼淚喔因為我在將近二十幾歲的二十五六歲的時候開過計程車所以我本身也是業者我開過計程車開了兩三年那那時候我有一個夢你知道嗎是什麼夢因為我看到有一些我的前輩他買一台遊覽車\n53470\t76833\t你知道新興的遊覽車他個人的然後每天出去我就覺得有一度那是我人生重要的目標真的哇一台大的遊覽車多驕傲那隨著這個不管是車種的變更、駕照的難易度從小車、大車、載貨、載人就覺得我要有一天達到這樣的一個能力\n77994\t106248\t可是曾幾何時現在看起來真的大車大不易已經產生時代結構性的變化真是沒辦法剛剛很多委員適當已經說過了大概情況就是這樣我自己再把它像疫情在前兩三年的數字去撈一撈其實確實在過去一個平穩的以公務客運來說它的搭乘的人次一年度有一千多萬人次\n107208\t122486\t結果到了113年目前的統計大概減少了非常多報章雜誌也有出來你的專案報告也有寫那班次呢有就減少了很多那事實上這互為因果互為因果\n123487\t141237\t那車輛數、路線數都變化很大其實你知道我在擔心什麼這時代的眼淚就這樣嗎會不會要到一種結構性變化要到什麼地步你知道嗎 因為它的功能在很多我們的軌道型的交通到不了\n142057\t156983\t或者我們政府補助的一些公車它到不了的它很多就是偏鄉它有這樣的一個需求過去能夠撐得住現在撐不住了所以很多人回家路如果再持續減少真的會出問題啊那我也自己也想過啦\n158629\t180064\t我們旅客坐公務客運的人越來越少當然有幾個原因第一個我們班次就少了我們路線數就少了對不對 我就是要坐新竹這一班你沒有了我不可能去坐台北的那就自然因為隨著我的班次少了車輛少了這個是一定就跟著減少的第二個呢\n181047\t196265\t是因為交通很多各線軌道出來了很多的方便的不管是高鐵、台鐵、約會票、T-pass很多原因都會吸引客戶可能去採用其他原本他們有的方式\n197006\t224456\t第三個呢因為公路客運他比較會堵車交通狀況難料有時候不是你技術好別人技術不好交通情況不好你都沒有辦法準點到達所以現在手時準時尤其上下班這也是很多人要改搭更準點的交通工序的疑慮最後一個就牽涉到他本身的服務品質如果幾次不好上公路客運被服務的經驗自然會流失\n225436\t246269\t如果只是旅客流失的話因為在這個產業有三類人第一個是旅客第二個是駕駛員這個產業才會動但最主要誰買車業者其實我們覺得我們最不希望看到的三件事快要全部發生了旅客不見了駕駛不見了\n251122\t277507\t駕駛也不見了其實駕駛不見了剛剛好幾位委員特別有說其中一個重點說能不能提高他的一個福利啊薪資啊讓一些誘因增加誘因讓他們回來包括勞動部啊也希望能夠改善他們的一個環境啊可是除了這個之外我聽到了很多很多的大車的駕駛其實他更擔心的是風險\n279673\t306573\t他更承擔了很大很大的壓力我覺得過去網路沒有這麼強的時代你知道嗎發生一件事就一群人知道現在發生一件事情就全世界知道了所以他們壓力是非常非常大而且是車內車外的壓力車外要看清楚絕對不能發生什麼事車內有這麼多的客戶一上來大車坐了三四十個人所以我想部長\n307984\t312590\t你對於這整個大車這個產業李鎂不見了駕駛不見了你有什麼樣的看法他的停損點或你覺得說你們在努力讓這個事情不要再持續惡化你們的想法是什麼\n325287\t344993\t我想對交通部的立場來講客運的維持是必然必須要的所以我們現在有很多的政策包含幸福巴士希望能夠有偏鄉的這些服務都是透過客運的方式因為我們很清楚知道軌道很便利很安全很可靠但不可能到每一個地方所以客運的維持相當重要我們最近看到\n345613\t361383\t這些年來的客運的發展確實也相當憂心所以我看交通部現在有用很大量的補貼跟補助的方案不管是在運費上面或者是在勞動的條件上面就是勞工的部分我們盡量在努力因為委員剛剛講的那三項\n362344\t380538\t一直在減少我們最怕業者也減少這個部分我們很不希望發生所以這個部分交通部應該也會再繼續加大力道來協助業者讓他能夠繼續營運下去因為這個對所有的民眾尤其是相對偏鄉的地方行的交通的這個便利性很重要\n381564\t403178\t好 大概十幾天前在客運業者有說這個缺工20%其實補大概剛好跟離職的人數就勉勉強強大概就維持在那個檔次他都跑到Uber根本徵不到人其實他說對一半啦也不見得是Uber啦很多的產業都有可能是相對低壓的產業我們再看看\n404246\t433666\t我們整個運輸啊我們挑了幾類主要大家比較熟、知道的行業別從最簡單的自己騎機車自己開的小貨車如果發生了任何的有壓力的事件就是我一個人單純一點所以從外送、快遞他們就你看快遞業他可能生有貨車他也呈現減少的部分接下來汽車的一個貨運可能比較大的車風險係數大那計程車尤其到公務客運啊他減少的一個比率啊\n434466\t436327\t李鎂、數位發展部次長、勞工權益及食品物流安全規範\n455757\t476467\t多少因為也沒有路線好跑了沒有路線好跑了我們剛剛大概這5年來就我的體驗在桃園本來有很多的學生專車、大車那之前他們很願意坐現在從最多的112線的載學生早上的班車現在剩81減少好像28%跟你們那個車數減幅其實是蠻類似的\n482967\t503260\t我今天要說了今天對業者我是建議我們很多的一個管制為了他更安全這完全合理的沒什麼好說但是有些不必要的一個壓力或者莫名其妙增加工作的你還嫌他活得很好嗎\n504875\t533357\t好 我們講說我們的價值要加薪但是我們要一個稍微有利潤的他的業者才有可能完成這件事現在目前這個情況幾乎八成都政府在做你跟叫業者加薪他幾乎說喔 sorry所以就是地方政府配合公務總局你們交通部在扛這一塊但是能夠扛多久咧我講這個的部分啊業者現在經營的四大困難第一個缺價值他真的很痛苦第二個呢\n535080\t550418\t已經很多的至少中型的以下的基本上沒有利潤如果扣掉政府的補助他早就收收回去了第三個我們比較擔心的法規對安全的部分沒有問題但是有些額外的\n551639\t570688\t法規的一個衝擊啊就是哇塞我已經這麼難做了你還要我做完功課那我就回家我不幹了包括了你現在的遊覽車的評鑑制度啊另外一類大車喔遊覽車的評鑑制度到底合不合你們從評鑑制度你們去看喔你們現在分類\n572336\t600827\t優等、佳等、宜等、不劣等聽起來是不入流的感覺因為前面你看那個加數加起來將近900家那有29家不劣等你這個每次公告我會看到公民眾選遊覽車就是考量嘛這個用意是很和善的你知道嗎民眾還沒參觀到保險公司先拿去參觀了\n602677\t630487\t保險公司先拿去所有不劣等的現在狀況是什麼我相信他們工會都跟你說啦你憑這個本來是良法美義的保險公司說不保了第三責任險或者其他額外的險不保了可是這個問題很怪耶因為你們現在憑個甲等乙等不是一台車耶就是你不劣等的一家公司裡面會不會有優等的駕駛\n631860\t651525\t後面有10年開遊覽車不出事的可是我告訴你他也沒辦法保所以我是覺得第一個你們現在遊覽車的平台制度如果這個兩罰美益我可以接受你把美益留下來但是造成的負面的效果說你們結果為什麼你們今年就都要停一年\n653410\t672428\t等一下因為感覺怪怪的停一年那你停一年不是休息一年明年再炒是要想方設法你們現在想說好吧要把不列等我不知道誰提出來這麼聰明有才智這個人可以用不列等未來改成平等就沒事了\n673311\t699180\t我的天啊那保險公司不會看啦優等、佳等、宜等那我就找平等啦所以我倒是覺得如果你平健制度是一個淘汰制度這業者說啊因為有些業者真的他就是品質非常差完全不安全你就抓一趴出來抓一家、兩家出來你這平健制度他慢慢不改善他可以淘汰你這樣子真的保障\n700200\t718833\t他的安全也保障坐遊覽車的安全也保障外面行人的安全所以我希望平建制度你真的要改善那有很多業者說現在他們已經真的利潤很少了可是要參加這個平建制度你們的郵寄規則我以為是交一份報告內部討論優等、佳等、宜等、不入等、不列等通出來不是\n728035\t743822\t第一波磨啊磨啊報告寫啦有些公司叫公司小姐寫有些比較正做的公司想要拼業績的委外花個10萬、20萬拜託別人然後去做做完第一關叫安全紀錄\n745043\t764784\t第一關安全記錄好恭喜得到夾等了再發函給你恭喜你已經入夾等但是你要繼續申請管理部分的科技管理再提一份報告出來你要這個通過之後你如果不申請你就列一等我的天啊我弄了半天\n765845\t783535\t我一家公司要到優等的要到優等的要經過兩次的一個評鑑經過你們專家學者我是建議不要這樣搞啦真的不要這樣搞如果你們這麼難判別的話我覺得是你們這個專家學者有問題所以我要拜託各位我做個結論因為業者很多的部分他的壓力真的非常非常大\n794042\t802431\t找不到司機也沒利潤法規沒有必要的給他衝擊你知道嗎駕駛出去沒有打又實際例子\n805487\t826005\t右轉沒有打方向燈右轉沒打方向燈然後呢被祭奠開罰單你知道嗎這幾天公司總局就派人去公司稽查稽查兩台遊覽車然後那駕駛已經不在這家公司了你們那個制度你聽懂我意思嗎方向燈是誰打的\n827173\t842409\t是駕駛的吧是駕駛的責任嘛所以你們現在造成這個業者是不是你們真的要去檢討一下你們要管好但是像這樣的增加負擔的這個部分造成有一些你要讓他沒保險\n843630\t863743\t在路上跑你乾脆叫他退場好了啦你們這種制度我是覺得部長是我是覺得這個平間制度要優化了好不好這一定要優化那再來就是您在說那個不能保險的部分我們也已經在幫業者解決我們有去跟金管會跟保險局他們去溝通這個部分要協助業者這一定要做的好 謝謝謝謝委員\n","txt":"好,謝謝主席,有請我們交通部陳部長公路局陳局長\n好 這個部長跟局長其實今天我要談一個議題因為其實我上次有講過這個外送平台那今天主要的一個焦點在我們大車 大車系列因為不光是我們市區的公車、遊覽車甚至公路客運、國道客運等等的我想先講載人的載人這些大型的客運\n那我現在剛剛在想真的像時代的眼淚喔因為我在將近二十幾歲的二十五六歲的時候開過計程車所以我本身也是業者我開過計程車開了兩三年那那時候我有一個夢你知道嗎是什麼夢因為我看到有一些我的前輩他買一台遊覽車\n你知道新興的遊覽車他個人的然後每天出去我就覺得有一度那是我人生重要的目標真的哇一台大的遊覽車多驕傲那隨著這個不管是車種的變更、駕照的難易度從小車、大車、載貨、載人就覺得我要有一天達到這樣的一個能力\n可是曾幾何時現在看起來真的大車大不易已經產生時代結構性的變化真是沒辦法剛剛很多委員適當已經說過了大概情況就是這樣我自己再把它像疫情在前兩三年的數字去撈一撈其實確實在過去一個平穩的以公務客運來說它的搭乘的人次一年度有一千多萬人次\n結果到了113年目前的統計大概減少了非常多報章雜誌也有出來你的專案報告也有寫那班次呢有就減少了很多那事實上這互為因果互為因果\n那車輛數、路線數都變化很大其實你知道我在擔心什麼這時代的眼淚就這樣嗎會不會要到一種結構性變化要到什麼地步你知道嗎 因為它的功能在很多我們的軌道型的交通到不了\n或者我們政府補助的一些公車它到不了的它很多就是偏鄉它有這樣的一個需求過去能夠撐得住現在撐不住了所以很多人回家路如果再持續減少真的會出問題啊那我也自己也想過啦\n我們旅客坐公務客運的人越來越少當然有幾個原因第一個我們班次就少了我們路線數就少了對不對 我就是要坐新竹這一班你沒有了我不可能去坐台北的那就自然因為隨著我的班次少了車輛少了這個是一定就跟著減少的第二個呢\n是因為交通很多各線軌道出來了很多的方便的不管是高鐵、台鐵、約會票、T-pass很多原因都會吸引客戶可能去採用其他原本他們有的方式\n第三個呢因為公路客運他比較會堵車交通狀況難料有時候不是你技術好別人技術不好交通情況不好你都沒有辦法準點到達所以現在手時準時尤其上下班這也是很多人要改搭更準點的交通工序的疑慮最後一個就牽涉到他本身的服務品質如果幾次不好上公路客運被服務的經驗自然會流失\n如果只是旅客流失的話因為在這個產業有三類人第一個是旅客第二個是駕駛員這個產業才會動但最主要誰買車業者其實我們覺得我們最不希望看到的三件事快要全部發生了旅客不見了駕駛不見了\n駕駛也不見了其實駕駛不見了剛剛好幾位委員特別有說其中一個重點說能不能提高他的一個福利啊薪資啊讓一些誘因增加誘因讓他們回來包括勞動部啊也希望能夠改善他們的一個環境啊可是除了這個之外我聽到了很多很多的大車的駕駛其實他更擔心的是風險\n他更承擔了很大很大的壓力我覺得過去網路沒有這麼強的時代你知道嗎發生一件事就一群人知道現在發生一件事情就全世界知道了所以他們壓力是非常非常大而且是車內車外的壓力車外要看清楚絕對不能發生什麼事車內有這麼多的客戶一上來大車坐了三四十個人所以我想部長\n你對於這整個大車這個產業李鎂不見了駕駛不見了你有什麼樣的看法他的停損點或你覺得說你們在努力讓這個事情不要再持續惡化你們的想法是什麼\n我想對交通部的立場來講客運的維持是必然必須要的所以我們現在有很多的政策包含幸福巴士希望能夠有偏鄉的這些服務都是透過客運的方式因為我們很清楚知道軌道很便利很安全很可靠但不可能到每一個地方所以客運的維持相當重要我們最近看到\n這些年來的客運的發展確實也相當憂心所以我看交通部現在有用很大量的補貼跟補助的方案不管是在運費上面或者是在勞動的條件上面就是勞工的部分我們盡量在努力因為委員剛剛講的那三項\n一直在減少我們最怕業者也減少這個部分我們很不希望發生所以這個部分交通部應該也會再繼續加大力道來協助業者讓他能夠繼續營運下去因為這個對所有的民眾尤其是相對偏鄉的地方行的交通的這個便利性很重要\n好 大概十幾天前在客運業者有說這個缺工20%其實補大概剛好跟離職的人數就勉勉強強大概就維持在那個檔次他都跑到Uber根本徵不到人其實他說對一半啦也不見得是Uber啦很多的產業都有可能是相對低壓的產業我們再看看\n我們整個運輸啊我們挑了幾類主要大家比較熟、知道的行業別從最簡單的自己騎機車自己開的小貨車如果發生了任何的有壓力的事件就是我一個人單純一點所以從外送、快遞他們就你看快遞業他可能生有貨車他也呈現減少的部分接下來汽車的一個貨運可能比較大的車風險係數大那計程車尤其到公務客運啊他減少的一個比率啊\n李鎂、數位發展部次長、勞工權益及食品物流安全規範\n多少因為也沒有路線好跑了沒有路線好跑了我們剛剛大概這5年來就我的體驗在桃園本來有很多的學生專車、大車那之前他們很願意坐現在從最多的112線的載學生早上的班車現在剩81減少好像28%跟你們那個車數減幅其實是蠻類似的\n我今天要說了今天對業者我是建議我們很多的一個管制為了他更安全這完全合理的沒什麼好說但是有些不必要的一個壓力或者莫名其妙增加工作的你還嫌他活得很好嗎\n好 我們講說我們的價值要加薪但是我們要一個稍微有利潤的他的業者才有可能完成這件事現在目前這個情況幾乎八成都政府在做你跟叫業者加薪他幾乎說喔 sorry所以就是地方政府配合公務總局你們交通部在扛這一塊但是能夠扛多久咧我講這個的部分啊業者現在經營的四大困難第一個缺價值他真的很痛苦第二個呢\n已經很多的至少中型的以下的基本上沒有利潤如果扣掉政府的補助他早就收收回去了第三個我們比較擔心的法規對安全的部分沒有問題但是有些額外的\n法規的一個衝擊啊就是哇塞我已經這麼難做了你還要我做完功課那我就回家我不幹了包括了你現在的遊覽車的評鑑制度啊另外一類大車喔遊覽車的評鑑制度到底合不合你們從評鑑制度你們去看喔你們現在分類\n優等、佳等、宜等、不劣等聽起來是不入流的感覺因為前面你看那個加數加起來將近900家那有29家不劣等你這個每次公告我會看到公民眾選遊覽車就是考量嘛這個用意是很和善的你知道嗎民眾還沒參觀到保險公司先拿去參觀了\n保險公司先拿去所有不劣等的現在狀況是什麼我相信他們工會都跟你說啦你憑這個本來是良法美義的保險公司說不保了第三責任險或者其他額外的險不保了可是這個問題很怪耶因為你們現在憑個甲等乙等不是一台車耶就是你不劣等的一家公司裡面會不會有優等的駕駛\n後面有10年開遊覽車不出事的可是我告訴你他也沒辦法保所以我是覺得第一個你們現在遊覽車的平台制度如果這個兩罰美益我可以接受你把美益留下來但是造成的負面的效果說你們結果為什麼你們今年就都要停一年\n等一下因為感覺怪怪的停一年那你停一年不是休息一年明年再炒是要想方設法你們現在想說好吧要把不列等我不知道誰提出來這麼聰明有才智這個人可以用不列等未來改成平等就沒事了\n我的天啊那保險公司不會看啦優等、佳等、宜等那我就找平等啦所以我倒是覺得如果你平健制度是一個淘汰制度這業者說啊因為有些業者真的他就是品質非常差完全不安全你就抓一趴出來抓一家、兩家出來你這平健制度他慢慢不改善他可以淘汰你這樣子真的保障\n他的安全也保障坐遊覽車的安全也保障外面行人的安全所以我希望平建制度你真的要改善那有很多業者說現在他們已經真的利潤很少了可是要參加這個平建制度你們的郵寄規則我以為是交一份報告內部討論優等、佳等、宜等、不入等、不列等通出來不是\n第一波磨啊磨啊報告寫啦有些公司叫公司小姐寫有些比較正做的公司想要拼業績的委外花個10萬、20萬拜託別人然後去做做完第一關叫安全紀錄\n第一關安全記錄好恭喜得到夾等了再發函給你恭喜你已經入夾等但是你要繼續申請管理部分的科技管理再提一份報告出來你要這個通過之後你如果不申請你就列一等我的天啊我弄了半天\n我一家公司要到優等的要到優等的要經過兩次的一個評鑑經過你們專家學者我是建議不要這樣搞啦真的不要這樣搞如果你們這麼難判別的話我覺得是你們這個專家學者有問題所以我要拜託各位我做個結論因為業者很多的部分他的壓力真的非常非常大\n找不到司機也沒利潤法規沒有必要的給他衝擊你知道嗎駕駛出去沒有打又實際例子\n右轉沒有打方向燈右轉沒打方向燈然後呢被祭奠開罰單你知道嗎這幾天公司總局就派人去公司稽查稽查兩台遊覽車然後那駕駛已經不在這家公司了你們那個制度你聽懂我意思嗎方向燈是誰打的\n是駕駛的吧是駕駛的責任嘛所以你們現在造成這個業者是不是你們真的要去檢討一下你們要管好但是像這樣的增加負擔的這個部分造成有一些你要讓他沒保險\n在路上跑你乾脆叫他退場好了啦你們這種制度我是覺得部長是我是覺得這個平間制度要優化了好不好這一定要優化那再來就是您在說那個不能保險的部分我們也已經在幫業者解決我們有去跟金管會跟保險局他們去溝通這個部分要協助業者這一定要做的好 謝謝謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.330 --> 00:05.723\n好,謝謝主席,有請我們交通部陳部長公路局陳局長\n\n00:11.909 --> 00:34.545\n好這個部長跟局長其實今天我要談一個議題因為其實我上次有講過這個外送平台那今天主要的一個焦點在我們大車大車系列因為不光是我們市區的公車、遊覽車甚至公路客運、國道客運等等的我想先講載人的載人這些大型的客運\n\n00:35.606 --> 00:51.968\n那我現在剛剛在想真的像時代的眼淚喔因為我在將近二十幾歲的二十五六歲的時候開過計程車所以我本身也是業者我開過計程車開了兩三年那那時候我有一個夢你知道嗎是什麼夢因為我看到有一些我的前輩他買一台遊覽車\n\n00:53.470 --> 01:16.833\n你知道新興的遊覽車他個人的然後每天出去我就覺得有一度那是我人生重要的目標真的哇一台大的遊覽車多驕傲那隨著這個不管是車種的變更、駕照的難易度從小車、大車、載貨、載人就覺得我要有一天達到這樣的一個能力\n\n01:17.994 --> 01:46.248\n可是曾幾何時現在看起來真的大車大不易已經產生時代結構性的變化真是沒辦法剛剛很多委員適當已經說過了大概情況就是這樣我自己再把它像疫情在前兩三年的數字去撈一撈其實確實在過去一個平穩的以公務客運來說它的搭乘的人次一年度有一千多萬人次\n\n01:47.208 --> 02:02.486\n結果到了113年目前的統計大概減少了非常多報章雜誌也有出來你的專案報告也有寫那班次呢有就減少了很多那事實上這互為因果互為因果\n\n02:03.487 --> 02:21.237\n那車輛數、路線數都變化很大其實你知道我在擔心什麼這時代的眼淚就這樣嗎會不會要到一種結構性變化要到什麼地步你知道嗎因為它的功能在很多我們的軌道型的交通到不了\n\n02:22.057 --> 02:36.983\n或者我們政府補助的一些公車它到不了的它很多就是偏鄉它有這樣的一個需求過去能夠撐得住現在撐不住了所以很多人回家路如果再持續減少真的會出問題啊那我也自己也想過啦\n\n02:38.629 --> 03:00.064\n我們旅客坐公務客運的人越來越少當然有幾個原因第一個我們班次就少了我們路線數就少了對不對我就是要坐新竹這一班你沒有了我不可能去坐台北的那就自然因為隨著我的班次少了車輛少了這個是一定就跟著減少的第二個呢\n\n03:01.047 --> 03:16.265\n是因為交通很多各線軌道出來了很多的方便的不管是高鐵、台鐵、約會票、T-pass很多原因都會吸引客戶可能去採用其他原本他們有的方式\n\n03:17.006 --> 03:44.456\n第三個呢因為公路客運他比較會堵車交通狀況難料有時候不是你技術好別人技術不好交通情況不好你都沒有辦法準點到達所以現在手時準時尤其上下班這也是很多人要改搭更準點的交通工序的疑慮最後一個就牽涉到他本身的服務品質如果幾次不好上公路客運被服務的經驗自然會流失\n\n03:45.436 --> 04:06.269\n如果只是旅客流失的話因為在這個產業有三類人第一個是旅客第二個是駕駛員這個產業才會動但最主要誰買車業者其實我們覺得我們最不希望看到的三件事快要全部發生了旅客不見了駕駛不見了\n\n04:11.122 --> 04:37.507\n駕駛也不見了其實駕駛不見了剛剛好幾位委員特別有說其中一個重點說能不能提高他的一個福利啊薪資啊讓一些誘因增加誘因讓他們回來包括勞動部啊也希望能夠改善他們的一個環境啊可是除了這個之外我聽到了很多很多的大車的駕駛其實他更擔心的是風險\n\n04:39.673 --> 05:06.573\n他更承擔了很大很大的壓力我覺得過去網路沒有這麼強的時代你知道嗎發生一件事就一群人知道現在發生一件事情就全世界知道了所以他們壓力是非常非常大而且是車內車外的壓力車外要看清楚絕對不能發生什麼事車內有這麼多的客戶一上來大車坐了三四十個人所以我想部長\n\n05:07.984 --> 05:12.590\n你對於這整個大車這個產業李鎂不見了駕駛不見了你有什麼樣的看法他的停損點或你覺得說你們在努力讓這個事情不要再持續惡化你們的想法是什麼\n\n05:25.287 --> 05:44.993\n我想對交通部的立場來講客運的維持是必然必須要的所以我們現在有很多的政策包含幸福巴士希望能夠有偏鄉的這些服務都是透過客運的方式因為我們很清楚知道軌道很便利很安全很可靠但不可能到每一個地方所以客運的維持相當重要我們最近看到\n\n05:45.613 --> 06:01.383\n這些年來的客運的發展確實也相當憂心所以我看交通部現在有用很大量的補貼跟補助的方案不管是在運費上面或者是在勞動的條件上面就是勞工的部分我們盡量在努力因為委員剛剛講的那三項\n\n06:02.344 --> 06:20.538\n一直在減少我們最怕業者也減少這個部分我們很不希望發生所以這個部分交通部應該也會再繼續加大力道來協助業者讓他能夠繼續營運下去因為這個對所有的民眾尤其是相對偏鄉的地方行的交通的這個便利性很重要\n\n06:21.564 --> 06:43.178\n好大概十幾天前在客運業者有說這個缺工20%其實補大概剛好跟離職的人數就勉勉強強大概就維持在那個檔次他都跑到Uber根本徵不到人其實他說對一半啦也不見得是Uber啦很多的產業都有可能是相對低壓的產業我們再看看\n\n06:44.246 --> 07:13.666\n我們整個運輸啊我們挑了幾類主要大家比較熟、知道的行業別從最簡單的自己騎機車自己開的小貨車如果發生了任何的有壓力的事件就是我一個人單純一點所以從外送、快遞他們就你看快遞業他可能生有貨車他也呈現減少的部分接下來汽車的一個貨運可能比較大的車風險係數大那計程車尤其到公務客運啊他減少的一個比率啊\n\n07:14.466 --> 07:16.327\n李鎂、數位發展部次長、勞工權益及食品物流安全規範\n\n07:35.757 --> 07:56.467\n多少因為也沒有路線好跑了沒有路線好跑了我們剛剛大概這5年來就我的體驗在桃園本來有很多的學生專車、大車那之前他們很願意坐現在從最多的112線的載學生早上的班車現在剩81減少好像28%跟你們那個車數減幅其實是蠻類似的\n\n08:02.967 --> 08:23.260\n我今天要說了今天對業者我是建議我們很多的一個管制為了他更安全這完全合理的沒什麼好說但是有些不必要的一個壓力或者莫名其妙增加工作的你還嫌他活得很好嗎\n\n08:24.875 --> 08:53.357\n好我們講說我們的價值要加薪但是我們要一個稍微有利潤的他的業者才有可能完成這件事現在目前這個情況幾乎八成都政府在做你跟叫業者加薪他幾乎說喔sorry所以就是地方政府配合公務總局你們交通部在扛這一塊但是能夠扛多久咧我講這個的部分啊業者現在經營的四大困難第一個缺價值他真的很痛苦第二個呢\n\n08:55.080 --> 09:10.418\n已經很多的至少中型的以下的基本上沒有利潤如果扣掉政府的補助他早就收收回去了第三個我們比較擔心的法規對安全的部分沒有問題但是有些額外的\n\n09:11.639 --> 09:30.688\n法規的一個衝擊啊就是哇塞我已經這麼難做了你還要我做完功課那我就回家我不幹了包括了你現在的遊覽車的評鑑制度啊另外一類大車喔遊覽車的評鑑制度到底合不合你們從評鑑制度你們去看喔你們現在分類\n\n09:32.336 --> 10:00.827\n優等、佳等、宜等、不劣等聽起來是不入流的感覺因為前面你看那個加數加起來將近900家那有29家不劣等你這個每次公告我會看到公民眾選遊覽車就是考量嘛這個用意是很和善的你知道嗎民眾還沒參觀到保險公司先拿去參觀了\n\n10:02.677 --> 10:30.487\n保險公司先拿去所有不劣等的現在狀況是什麼我相信他們工會都跟你說啦你憑這個本來是良法美義的保險公司說不保了第三責任險或者其他額外的險不保了可是這個問題很怪耶因為你們現在憑個甲等乙等不是一台車耶就是你不劣等的一家公司裡面會不會有優等的駕駛\n\n10:31.860 --> 10:51.525\n後面有10年開遊覽車不出事的可是我告訴你他也沒辦法保所以我是覺得第一個你們現在遊覽車的平台制度如果這個兩罰美益我可以接受你把美益留下來但是造成的負面的效果說你們結果為什麼你們今年就都要停一年\n\n10:53.410 --> 11:12.428\n等一下因為感覺怪怪的停一年那你停一年不是休息一年明年再炒是要想方設法你們現在想說好吧要把不列等我不知道誰提出來這麼聰明有才智這個人可以用不列等未來改成平等就沒事了\n\n11:13.311 --> 11:39.180\n我的天啊那保險公司不會看啦優等、佳等、宜等那我就找平等啦所以我倒是覺得如果你平健制度是一個淘汰制度這業者說啊因為有些業者真的他就是品質非常差完全不安全你就抓一趴出來抓一家、兩家出來你這平健制度他慢慢不改善他可以淘汰你這樣子真的保障\n\n11:40.200 --> 11:58.833\n他的安全也保障坐遊覽車的安全也保障外面行人的安全所以我希望平建制度你真的要改善那有很多業者說現在他們已經真的利潤很少了可是要參加這個平建制度你們的郵寄規則我以為是交一份報告內部討論優等、佳等、宜等、不入等、不列等通出來不是\n\n12:08.035 --> 12:23.822\n第一波磨啊磨啊報告寫啦有些公司叫公司小姐寫有些比較正做的公司想要拼業績的委外花個10萬、20萬拜託別人然後去做做完第一關叫安全紀錄\n\n12:25.043 --> 12:44.784\n第一關安全記錄好恭喜得到夾等了再發函給你恭喜你已經入夾等但是你要繼續申請管理部分的科技管理再提一份報告出來你要這個通過之後你如果不申請你就列一等我的天啊我弄了半天\n\n12:45.845 --> 13:03.535\n我一家公司要到優等的要到優等的要經過兩次的一個評鑑經過你們專家學者我是建議不要這樣搞啦真的不要這樣搞如果你們這麼難判別的話我覺得是你們這個專家學者有問題所以我要拜託各位我做個結論因為業者很多的部分他的壓力真的非常非常大\n\n13:14.042 --> 13:22.431\n找不到司機也沒利潤法規沒有必要的給他衝擊你知道嗎駕駛出去沒有打又實際例子\n\n13:25.487 --> 13:46.005\n右轉沒有打方向燈右轉沒打方向燈然後呢被祭奠開罰單你知道嗎這幾天公司總局就派人去公司稽查稽查兩台遊覽車然後那駕駛已經不在這家公司了你們那個制度你聽懂我意思嗎方向燈是誰打的\n\n13:47.173 --> 14:02.409\n是駕駛的吧是駕駛的責任嘛所以你們現在造成這個業者是不是你們真的要去檢討一下你們要管好但是像這樣的增加負擔的這個部分造成有一些你要讓他沒保險\n\n14:03.630 --> 14:23.743\n在路上跑你乾脆叫他退場好了啦你們這種制度我是覺得部長是我是覺得這個平間制度要優化了好不好這一定要優化那再來就是您在說那個不能保險的部分我們也已經在幫業者解決我們有去跟金管會跟保險局他們去溝通這個部分要協助業者這一定要做的好謝謝謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.33,"end":5.723,"text":"好,謝謝主席,有請我們交通部陳部長公路局陳局長"},{"start":11.909,"end":34.545,"text":"好 這個部長跟局長其實今天我要談一個議題因為其實我上次有講過這個外送平台那今天主要的一個焦點在我們大車 大車系列因為不光是我們市區的公車、遊覽車甚至公路客運、國道客運等等的我想先講載人的載人這些大型的客運"},{"start":35.606,"end":51.968,"text":"那我現在剛剛在想真的像時代的眼淚喔因為我在將近二十幾歲的二十五六歲的時候開過計程車所以我本身也是業者我開過計程車開了兩三年那那時候我有一個夢你知道嗎是什麼夢因為我看到有一些我的前輩他買一台遊覽車"},{"start":53.47,"end":76.833,"text":"你知道新興的遊覽車他個人的然後每天出去我就覺得有一度那是我人生重要的目標真的哇一台大的遊覽車多驕傲那隨著這個不管是車種的變更、駕照的難易度從小車、大車、載貨、載人就覺得我要有一天達到這樣的一個能力"},{"start":77.994,"end":106.248,"text":"可是曾幾何時現在看起來真的大車大不易已經產生時代結構性的變化真是沒辦法剛剛很多委員適當已經說過了大概情況就是這樣我自己再把它像疫情在前兩三年的數字去撈一撈其實確實在過去一個平穩的以公務客運來說它的搭乘的人次一年度有一千多萬人次"},{"start":107.208,"end":122.486,"text":"結果到了113年目前的統計大概減少了非常多報章雜誌也有出來你的專案報告也有寫那班次呢有就減少了很多那事實上這互為因果互為因果"},{"start":123.487,"end":141.237,"text":"那車輛數、路線數都變化很大其實你知道我在擔心什麼這時代的眼淚就這樣嗎會不會要到一種結構性變化要到什麼地步你知道嗎 因為它的功能在很多我們的軌道型的交通到不了"},{"start":142.057,"end":156.983,"text":"或者我們政府補助的一些公車它到不了的它很多就是偏鄉它有這樣的一個需求過去能夠撐得住現在撐不住了所以很多人回家路如果再持續減少真的會出問題啊那我也自己也想過啦"},{"start":158.629,"end":180.064,"text":"我們旅客坐公務客運的人越來越少當然有幾個原因第一個我們班次就少了我們路線數就少了對不對 我就是要坐新竹這一班你沒有了我不可能去坐台北的那就自然因為隨著我的班次少了車輛少了這個是一定就跟著減少的第二個呢"},{"start":181.047,"end":196.265,"text":"是因為交通很多各線軌道出來了很多的方便的不管是高鐵、台鐵、約會票、T-pass很多原因都會吸引客戶可能去採用其他原本他們有的方式"},{"start":197.006,"end":224.456,"text":"第三個呢因為公路客運他比較會堵車交通狀況難料有時候不是你技術好別人技術不好交通情況不好你都沒有辦法準點到達所以現在手時準時尤其上下班這也是很多人要改搭更準點的交通工序的疑慮最後一個就牽涉到他本身的服務品質如果幾次不好上公路客運被服務的經驗自然會流失"},{"start":225.436,"end":246.269,"text":"如果只是旅客流失的話因為在這個產業有三類人第一個是旅客第二個是駕駛員這個產業才會動但最主要誰買車業者其實我們覺得我們最不希望看到的三件事快要全部發生了旅客不見了駕駛不見了"},{"start":251.122,"end":277.507,"text":"駕駛也不見了其實駕駛不見了剛剛好幾位委員特別有說其中一個重點說能不能提高他的一個福利啊薪資啊讓一些誘因增加誘因讓他們回來包括勞動部啊也希望能夠改善他們的一個環境啊可是除了這個之外我聽到了很多很多的大車的駕駛其實他更擔心的是風險"},{"start":279.673,"end":306.573,"text":"他更承擔了很大很大的壓力我覺得過去網路沒有這麼強的時代你知道嗎發生一件事就一群人知道現在發生一件事情就全世界知道了所以他們壓力是非常非常大而且是車內車外的壓力車外要看清楚絕對不能發生什麼事車內有這麼多的客戶一上來大車坐了三四十個人所以我想部長"},{"start":307.984,"end":312.59,"text":"你對於這整個大車這個產業李鎂不見了駕駛不見了你有什麼樣的看法他的停損點或你覺得說你們在努力讓這個事情不要再持續惡化你們的想法是什麼"},{"start":325.287,"end":344.993,"text":"我想對交通部的立場來講客運的維持是必然必須要的所以我們現在有很多的政策包含幸福巴士希望能夠有偏鄉的這些服務都是透過客運的方式因為我們很清楚知道軌道很便利很安全很可靠但不可能到每一個地方所以客運的維持相當重要我們最近看到"},{"start":345.613,"end":361.383,"text":"這些年來的客運的發展確實也相當憂心所以我看交通部現在有用很大量的補貼跟補助的方案不管是在運費上面或者是在勞動的條件上面就是勞工的部分我們盡量在努力因為委員剛剛講的那三項"},{"start":362.344,"end":380.538,"text":"一直在減少我們最怕業者也減少這個部分我們很不希望發生所以這個部分交通部應該也會再繼續加大力道來協助業者讓他能夠繼續營運下去因為這個對所有的民眾尤其是相對偏鄉的地方行的交通的這個便利性很重要"},{"start":381.564,"end":403.178,"text":"好 大概十幾天前在客運業者有說這個缺工20%其實補大概剛好跟離職的人數就勉勉強強大概就維持在那個檔次他都跑到Uber根本徵不到人其實他說對一半啦也不見得是Uber啦很多的產業都有可能是相對低壓的產業我們再看看"},{"start":404.246,"end":433.666,"text":"我們整個運輸啊我們挑了幾類主要大家比較熟、知道的行業別從最簡單的自己騎機車自己開的小貨車如果發生了任何的有壓力的事件就是我一個人單純一點所以從外送、快遞他們就你看快遞業他可能生有貨車他也呈現減少的部分接下來汽車的一個貨運可能比較大的車風險係數大那計程車尤其到公務客運啊他減少的一個比率啊"},{"start":434.466,"end":436.327,"text":"李鎂、數位發展部次長、勞工權益及食品物流安全規範"},{"start":455.757,"end":476.467,"text":"多少因為也沒有路線好跑了沒有路線好跑了我們剛剛大概這5年來就我的體驗在桃園本來有很多的學生專車、大車那之前他們很願意坐現在從最多的112線的載學生早上的班車現在剩81減少好像28%跟你們那個車數減幅其實是蠻類似的"},{"start":482.967,"end":503.26,"text":"我今天要說了今天對業者我是建議我們很多的一個管制為了他更安全這完全合理的沒什麼好說但是有些不必要的一個壓力或者莫名其妙增加工作的你還嫌他活得很好嗎"},{"start":504.875,"end":533.357,"text":"好 我們講說我們的價值要加薪但是我們要一個稍微有利潤的他的業者才有可能完成這件事現在目前這個情況幾乎八成都政府在做你跟叫業者加薪他幾乎說喔 sorry所以就是地方政府配合公務總局你們交通部在扛這一塊但是能夠扛多久咧我講這個的部分啊業者現在經營的四大困難第一個缺價值他真的很痛苦第二個呢"},{"start":535.08,"end":550.418,"text":"已經很多的至少中型的以下的基本上沒有利潤如果扣掉政府的補助他早就收收回去了第三個我們比較擔心的法規對安全的部分沒有問題但是有些額外的"},{"start":551.639,"end":570.688,"text":"法規的一個衝擊啊就是哇塞我已經這麼難做了你還要我做完功課那我就回家我不幹了包括了你現在的遊覽車的評鑑制度啊另外一類大車喔遊覽車的評鑑制度到底合不合你們從評鑑制度你們去看喔你們現在分類"},{"start":572.336,"end":600.827,"text":"優等、佳等、宜等、不劣等聽起來是不入流的感覺因為前面你看那個加數加起來將近900家那有29家不劣等你這個每次公告我會看到公民眾選遊覽車就是考量嘛這個用意是很和善的你知道嗎民眾還沒參觀到保險公司先拿去參觀了"},{"start":602.677,"end":630.487,"text":"保險公司先拿去所有不劣等的現在狀況是什麼我相信他們工會都跟你說啦你憑這個本來是良法美義的保險公司說不保了第三責任險或者其他額外的險不保了可是這個問題很怪耶因為你們現在憑個甲等乙等不是一台車耶就是你不劣等的一家公司裡面會不會有優等的駕駛"},{"start":631.86,"end":651.525,"text":"後面有10年開遊覽車不出事的可是我告訴你他也沒辦法保所以我是覺得第一個你們現在遊覽車的平台制度如果這個兩罰美益我可以接受你把美益留下來但是造成的負面的效果說你們結果為什麼你們今年就都要停一年"},{"start":653.41,"end":672.428,"text":"等一下因為感覺怪怪的停一年那你停一年不是休息一年明年再炒是要想方設法你們現在想說好吧要把不列等我不知道誰提出來這麼聰明有才智這個人可以用不列等未來改成平等就沒事了"},{"start":673.311,"end":699.18,"text":"我的天啊那保險公司不會看啦優等、佳等、宜等那我就找平等啦所以我倒是覺得如果你平健制度是一個淘汰制度這業者說啊因為有些業者真的他就是品質非常差完全不安全你就抓一趴出來抓一家、兩家出來你這平健制度他慢慢不改善他可以淘汰你這樣子真的保障"},{"start":700.2,"end":718.833,"text":"他的安全也保障坐遊覽車的安全也保障外面行人的安全所以我希望平建制度你真的要改善那有很多業者說現在他們已經真的利潤很少了可是要參加這個平建制度你們的郵寄規則我以為是交一份報告內部討論優等、佳等、宜等、不入等、不列等通出來不是"},{"start":728.035,"end":743.822,"text":"第一波磨啊磨啊報告寫啦有些公司叫公司小姐寫有些比較正做的公司想要拼業績的委外花個10萬、20萬拜託別人然後去做做完第一關叫安全紀錄"},{"start":745.043,"end":764.784,"text":"第一關安全記錄好恭喜得到夾等了再發函給你恭喜你已經入夾等但是你要繼續申請管理部分的科技管理再提一份報告出來你要這個通過之後你如果不申請你就列一等我的天啊我弄了半天"},{"start":765.845,"end":783.535,"text":"我一家公司要到優等的要到優等的要經過兩次的一個評鑑經過你們專家學者我是建議不要這樣搞啦真的不要這樣搞如果你們這麼難判別的話我覺得是你們這個專家學者有問題所以我要拜託各位我做個結論因為業者很多的部分他的壓力真的非常非常大"},{"start":794.042,"end":802.431,"text":"找不到司機也沒利潤法規沒有必要的給他衝擊你知道嗎駕駛出去沒有打又實際例子"},{"start":805.487,"end":826.005,"text":"右轉沒有打方向燈右轉沒打方向燈然後呢被祭奠開罰單你知道嗎這幾天公司總局就派人去公司稽查稽查兩台遊覽車然後那駕駛已經不在這家公司了你們那個制度你聽懂我意思嗎方向燈是誰打的"},{"start":827.173,"end":842.409,"text":"是駕駛的吧是駕駛的責任嘛所以你們現在造成這個業者是不是你們真的要去檢討一下你們要管好但是像這樣的增加負擔的這個部分造成有一些你要讓他沒保險"},{"start":843.63,"end":863.743,"text":"在路上跑你乾脆叫他退場好了啦你們這種制度我是覺得部長是我是覺得這個平間制度要優化了好不好這一定要優化那再來就是您在說那個不能保險的部分我們也已經在幫業者解決我們有去跟金管會跟保險局他們去溝通這個部分要協助業者這一定要做的好 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