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00:01:02,916\n那麼再次在這次的大法官所做成的憲法判決當中其實有些地方還是不是很清楚因為他在憲法判決裡面他是針對申請人所提出來的四項死刑的條文那麼做出解釋那麼看起來如果說從我們現在講的這個憲法判決它的主要有效的拘束範圍應該就是指這四條殺人罪那麼要求要有這個要有這個健行強制辯護\n\n4\n00:01:22,710 --> 00:01:26,501\n的程序不管是在第三審還是在偵查\n\n5\n00:01:28,445 --> 00:01:29,246\n（刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案．\n\n6\n00:01:59,885 --> 00:02:15,330\n行事訴訟法應該是請秘書長這邊先回答那委員好那當然這一次的這個那個宪判制他的標的是這四條沒有錯那其他的部分其他的部分沒有沒有沒有在這個標的範圍內那將來如果說\n\n7\n00:02:18,311 --> 00:02:39,705\n他們其他的相關有死刑的不在但是不是在這一個事實範圍內要去參照去法務部假因為他是法務部主政法務部參照修法的話那司法院是尊重的因為刑事訴訟法是屬於司法院要修法所以呢就是未來有關於強制辯護的程序的話是會一體適用在所有的死刑\n\n8\n00:02:40,225 --> 00:02:55,950\n所以你們現在內部還沒有進行討論嗎?我們正在研議中但是今天假設會有宣告死刑的案例第一個我想刑事訴訟不是只有這四條我們應該會去參照去做相關的這些規範\n\n9\n00:03:03,772 --> 00:03:15,310\n這一次只是因為訴訟標的設限在這四條但是還有其他類似的情形所以簡單來說你們會做通盤的考慮對不對通盤的考量是不是全部都要一併修法那法務部呢\n\n10\n00:03:16,657 --> 00:03:38,258\n各位報告根據宣判8號的判決意旨跟本部有關係主管法規包括刑法跟監獄刑法的修正那刑法的部分包括19條第二項的不得判處死刑的部分那我們要修在我們的刑法裡面另外有關於訴訟中的這個辯護能力如果欠缺與不得判處死刑這部分刑法裡面要做相應的規定\n\n11\n00:03:39,119 --> 00:04:04,044\n另外還有先判之八號提到有關於假釋特殊的假釋要不要提高假釋門檻的部分我們的假釋規定也要做相應的處理。再來有關授刑能力就涉及到我們的監獄刑警法以及刑事訴訟法的修正。好簡單來說你們也是會通盤的考量嗎?不會說是只針對因為這涉及到這四條的死刑罪而被而判刑的這個部分那會\n\n12\n00:04:07,144 --> 00:04:07,164\n議員鍾佳濱\n\n13\n00:04:27,865 --> 00:04:49,769\n還是你們現在司法院跟法務部這裡的做法是什麼因為我們知道其實有一些案因為這個相關的訴訟案件都在進行中然後呢整個的偵查程序也都是一直在進行中那麼所以就原來已經在偵查程序的這些案子你們要怎麼樣補正相關的這個程序做法\n\n14\n00:04:51,438 --> 00:05:11,192\n在審判中的話因為宪判有幾個包含說一致決強制編戶這些都是立即生效的那當然在訴訟進行中的案子我們大概會到宪判一直來做有一些他有給習縣的要研議的那一部分那一部分要看那個主文的很多項我們會到宪判一直來去傳\n\n15\n00:05:11,792 --> 00:05:34,724\n但是對於像是這個偵查現在我相信一定這個實務上有非常多的案子都是在這個偵查程序當中那麼所以現在法務部已經要求所有的偵查階段的檢警調都要依照大法官的意旨要實施強制辯護嗎要引進公社律師或是找法復的律師\n\n16\n00:05:35,818 --> 00:05:55,059\n跟委員報告齁那我們憲判制大法官他的判決是指就是說偵查中的強制辯護他是原則上希望我們兩年內修法那如果兩年內沒有完成修法的話憲判制他已經有一個具體的指示要該怎麼做那而且他具名指明就是說現在已經存在的程序是不受影響的\n\n17\n00:05:55,780 --> 00:06:12,751\n所以就是兩年之後才會正式的開始實施這樣子的一個這樣子的要求對但是我還是要講就是在不斷的提醒因為大法官這次做的限判是事實上已經造成整個偵查當中的可能會發生強制辯護有障礙男性的地方就是這個對於警察還有這個檢體調的人員他們在偵訊過程當中可能當時的這個犯罪事實還不是很清楚\n\n18\n00:07:34,770 --> 00:07:57,321\n的有重刑的這個案件的話大概有六千多大概有六千多件嘛我記得所以呢對於整個的法服的經費來講它會大幅的提升那就這個部分來說這的確會增加國家的負擔司法預算經費的負擔那你們未來有沒有什麼比較好的一個應變的做法\n\n19\n00:07:58,355 --> 00:08:16,193\n跟委員報告那法服今年的預算大概15億但是還沒有當時還沒有這一個憲判當然憲判出來之後我們會跟法務會法務基金會他們目前正在盤點是不是他們能夠在預算範圍能夠負荷\n\n20\n00:08:20,417 --> 00:08:29,659\n除了就是經費的部分還有另外的部分就是說不見得能夠成功派得到法服的律師所以他其實的確是會造成實務上至愛難行之處那本席是認為說其實就現在的這個實務界司法實務界一定會針對大法官所做成的這號限判制感到非常的困擾因為會出現非常多實務上難以處理的問題那這部分的話\n\n21\n00:08:49,504 --> 00:09:01,027\n希望法務部還有司法院你們都要盡快提出相關的修法或者是說要積極的召開公聽會、研討會來處理這個問題否則的話我想我們即將要進入了大強制辯護時代\n\n22\n00:09:12,350 --> 00:09:31,877\n到底十五屆準備好了嗎?尤其是在基層的第一線人員檢警掉他們對於這方面的認知是否了解而且之後如果說有引用法條錯誤然後之後再來回來有機會再重新去補正那個沒有強制辯護的程序他會是不是會影響到證據力?\n\n23\n00:09:34,448 --> 00:10:00,265\n根本報告那事實上我們現在偵查中的辯護我們在刑訴法有關於這個身心障礙或者原住民現在現實上事實上就已經是強制辯護了但現在判決之後未來會增加幾個重罪所以就我們檢警來講其實他已經在偵查中的辯護他已經印製多年了只是未來量的部分會增加只是說做法上是沒有什麼不一樣而且還有涉及到一個問題就是如果說當事人犯罪嫌疑人他不願意\n\n24\n00:10:02,606 --> 00:10:25,202\n請律師呢?他不願意就是接受強制辯護對那我們在31條的部分他有做個特別規定他若不願意當然就沒有強制辯護了他如果不願意可是問一些大法官的要求是不管看起來是不管犯律宣言他沒有講要求他跟審判中的強制辯護他做了一個不同強度的處理他如果他不需要或者等待超過4小時我們就不必強制辯護了對\n\n25\n00:10:26,843 --> 00:10:43,241\n好那我想就是如果說法務部跟司法院這邊你們過去都已經有了些實務的經驗那麼就應該要更積極迅速的提出修法不要讓外界就對這部分的話不是很清楚未來我們的實務的走法是如何好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8772\t25753\t主席好,現在有請保務部黃次長還有司法院黃副秘書長今天本席所談的還是想說是從\n27264\t51749\t大法官作成死刑有條件和憲的憲法判決裏面來談這個事情。那麼我們知道大法官在這次的憲法判決裏面其實設下了一些門檻那外界當然有批評大法官是不是造法他設下了這個一些門檻那麼看起來就是現在有待法務部跟司法院可能都分別必須要修法\n52449\t62916\t那麼再次在這次的大法官所做成的憲法判決當中其實有些地方還是不是很清楚因為他在憲法判決裡面他是針對申請人所提出來的四項死刑的條文那麼做出解釋那麼看起來如果說從我們現在講的這個憲法判決它的主要有效的拘束範圍應該就是指這四條殺人罪那麼要求要有這個要有這個健行強制辯護\n82710\t86501\t的程序不管是在第三審還是在偵查\n88445\t89246\t（刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案．\n119885\t135330\t行事訴訟法應該是請秘書長這邊先回答那委員好那當然這一次的這個那個宪判制他的標的是這四條沒有錯那其他的部分其他的部分沒有沒有沒有在這個標的範圍內那將來如果說\n138311\t159705\t他們其他的相關有死刑的不在但是不是在這一個事實範圍內要去參照去法務部假因為他是法務部主政法務部參照修法的話那司法院是尊重的因為刑事訴訟法是屬於司法院要修法所以呢就是未來有關於強制辯護的程序的話是會一體適用在所有的死刑\n160225\t175950\t所以你們現在內部還沒有進行討論嗎?我們正在研議中但是今天假設會有宣告死刑的案例第一個我想刑事訴訟不是只有這四條我們應該會去參照去做相關的這些規範\n183772\t195310\t這一次只是因為訴訟標的設限在這四條但是還有其他類似的情形所以簡單來說你們會做通盤的考慮對不對通盤的考量是不是全部都要一併修法那法務部呢\n196657\t218258\t各位報告根據宣判8號的判決意旨跟本部有關係主管法規包括刑法跟監獄刑法的修正那刑法的部分包括19條第二項的不得判處死刑的部分那我們要修在我們的刑法裡面另外有關於訴訟中的這個辯護能力如果欠缺與不得判處死刑這部分刑法裡面要做相應的規定\n219119\t244044\t另外還有先判之八號提到有關於假釋特殊的假釋要不要提高假釋門檻的部分我們的假釋規定也要做相應的處理。再來有關授刑能力就涉及到我們的監獄刑警法以及刑事訴訟法的修正。好簡單來說你們也是會通盤的考量嗎?不會說是只針對因為這涉及到這四條的死刑罪而被而判刑的這個部分那會\n247144\t247164\t議員鍾佳濱\n267865\t289769\t還是你們現在司法院跟法務部這裡的做法是什麼因為我們知道其實有一些案因為這個相關的訴訟案件都在進行中然後呢整個的偵查程序也都是一直在進行中那麼所以就原來已經在偵查程序的這些案子你們要怎麼樣補正相關的這個程序做法\n291438\t311192\t在審判中的話因為宪判有幾個包含說一致決強制編戶這些都是立即生效的那當然在訴訟進行中的案子我們大概會到宪判一直來做有一些他有給習縣的要研議的那一部分那一部分要看那個主文的很多項我們會到宪判一直來去傳\n311792\t334724\t但是對於像是這個偵查現在我相信一定這個實務上有非常多的案子都是在這個偵查程序當中那麼所以現在法務部已經要求所有的偵查階段的檢警調都要依照大法官的意旨要實施強制辯護嗎要引進公社律師或是找法復的律師\n335818\t355059\t跟委員報告齁那我們憲判制大法官他的判決是指就是說偵查中的強制辯護他是原則上希望我們兩年內修法那如果兩年內沒有完成修法的話憲判制他已經有一個具體的指示要該怎麼做那而且他具名指明就是說現在已經存在的程序是不受影響的\n355780\t372751\t所以就是兩年之後才會正式的開始實施這樣子的一個這樣子的要求對但是我還是要講就是在不斷的提醒因為大法官這次做的限判是事實上已經造成整個偵查當中的可能會發生強制辯護有障礙男性的地方就是這個對於警察還有這個檢體調的人員他們在偵訊過程當中可能當時的這個犯罪事實還不是很清楚\n384138\t407910\t﹏﹏\n407910\t434480\t議員（\n434480\t454650\t﹏﹏\n454770\t477321\t的有重刑的這個案件的話大概有六千多大概有六千多件嘛我記得所以呢對於整個的法服的經費來講它會大幅的提升那就這個部分來說這的確會增加國家的負擔司法預算經費的負擔那你們未來有沒有什麼比較好的一個應變的做法\n478355\t496193\t跟委員報告那法服今年的預算大概15億但是還沒有當時還沒有這一個憲判當然憲判出來之後我們會跟法務會法務基金會他們目前正在盤點是不是他們能夠在預算範圍能夠負荷\n500417\t509659\t除了就是經費的部分還有另外的部分就是說不見得能夠成功派得到法服的律師所以他其實的確是會造成實務上至愛難行之處那本席是認為說其實就現在的這個實務界司法實務界一定會針對大法官所做成的這號限判制感到非常的困擾因為會出現非常多實務上難以處理的問題那這部分的話\n529504\t541027\t希望法務部還有司法院你們都要盡快提出相關的修法或者是說要積極的召開公聽會、研討會來處理這個問題否則的話我想我們即將要進入了大強制辯護時代\n552350\t571877\t到底十五屆準備好了嗎?尤其是在基層的第一線人員檢警掉他們對於這方面的認知是否了解而且之後如果說有引用法條錯誤然後之後再來回來有機會再重新去補正那個沒有強制辯護的程序他會是不是會影響到證據力?\n574448\t600265\t根本報告那事實上我們現在偵查中的辯護我們在刑訴法有關於這個身心障礙或者原住民現在現實上事實上就已經是強制辯護了但現在判決之後未來會增加幾個重罪所以就我們檢警來講其實他已經在偵查中的辯護他已經印製多年了只是未來量的部分會增加只是說做法上是沒有什麼不一樣而且還有涉及到一個問題就是如果說當事人犯罪嫌疑人他不願意\n602606\t625202\t請律師呢?他不願意就是接受強制辯護對那我們在31條的部分他有做個特別規定他若不願意當然就沒有強制辯護了他如果不願意可是問一些大法官的要求是不管看起來是不管犯律宣言他沒有講要求他跟審判中的強制辯護他做了一個不同強度的處理他如果他不需要或者等待超過4小時我們就不必強制辯護了對\n626843\t643241\t好那我想就是如果說法務部跟司法院這邊你們過去都已經有了些實務的經驗那麼就應該要更積極迅速的提出修法不要讓外界就對這部分的話不是很清楚未來我們的實務的走法是如何好好謝謝\n","txt":"主席好,現在有請保務部黃次長還有司法院黃副秘書長今天本席所談的還是想說是從\n大法官作成死刑有條件和憲的憲法判決裏面來談這個事情。那麼我們知道大法官在這次的憲法判決裏面其實設下了一些門檻那外界當然有批評大法官是不是造法他設下了這個一些門檻那麼看起來就是現在有待法務部跟司法院可能都分別必須要修法\n那麼再次在這次的大法官所做成的憲法判決當中其實有些地方還是不是很清楚因為他在憲法判決裡面他是針對申請人所提出來的四項死刑的條文那麼做出解釋那麼看起來如果說從我們現在講的這個憲法判決它的主要有效的拘束範圍應該就是指這四條殺人罪那麼要求要有這個要有這個健行強制辯護\n的程序不管是在第三審還是在偵查\n（刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案．\n行事訴訟法應該是請秘書長這邊先回答那委員好那當然這一次的這個那個宪判制他的標的是這四條沒有錯那其他的部分其他的部分沒有沒有沒有在這個標的範圍內那將來如果說\n他們其他的相關有死刑的不在但是不是在這一個事實範圍內要去參照去法務部假因為他是法務部主政法務部參照修法的話那司法院是尊重的因為刑事訴訟法是屬於司法院要修法所以呢就是未來有關於強制辯護的程序的話是會一體適用在所有的死刑\n所以你們現在內部還沒有進行討論嗎?我們正在研議中但是今天假設會有宣告死刑的案例第一個我想刑事訴訟不是只有這四條我們應該會去參照去做相關的這些規範\n這一次只是因為訴訟標的設限在這四條但是還有其他類似的情形所以簡單來說你們會做通盤的考慮對不對通盤的考量是不是全部都要一併修法那法務部呢\n各位報告根據宣判8號的判決意旨跟本部有關係主管法規包括刑法跟監獄刑法的修正那刑法的部分包括19條第二項的不得判處死刑的部分那我們要修在我們的刑法裡面另外有關於訴訟中的這個辯護能力如果欠缺與不得判處死刑這部分刑法裡面要做相應的規定\n另外還有先判之八號提到有關於假釋特殊的假釋要不要提高假釋門檻的部分我們的假釋規定也要做相應的處理。再來有關授刑能力就涉及到我們的監獄刑警法以及刑事訴訟法的修正。好簡單來說你們也是會通盤的考量嗎?不會說是只針對因為這涉及到這四條的死刑罪而被而判刑的這個部分那會\n議員鍾佳濱\n還是你們現在司法院跟法務部這裡的做法是什麼因為我們知道其實有一些案因為這個相關的訴訟案件都在進行中然後呢整個的偵查程序也都是一直在進行中那麼所以就原來已經在偵查程序的這些案子你們要怎麼樣補正相關的這個程序做法\n在審判中的話因為宪判有幾個包含說一致決強制編戶這些都是立即生效的那當然在訴訟進行中的案子我們大概會到宪判一直來做有一些他有給習縣的要研議的那一部分那一部分要看那個主文的很多項我們會到宪判一直來去傳\n但是對於像是這個偵查現在我相信一定這個實務上有非常多的案子都是在這個偵查程序當中那麼所以現在法務部已經要求所有的偵查階段的檢警調都要依照大法官的意旨要實施強制辯護嗎要引進公社律師或是找法復的律師\n跟委員報告齁那我們憲判制大法官他的判決是指就是說偵查中的強制辯護他是原則上希望我們兩年內修法那如果兩年內沒有完成修法的話憲判制他已經有一個具體的指示要該怎麼做那而且他具名指明就是說現在已經存在的程序是不受影響的\n所以就是兩年之後才會正式的開始實施這樣子的一個這樣子的要求對但是我還是要講就是在不斷的提醒因為大法官這次做的限判是事實上已經造成整個偵查當中的可能會發生強制辯護有障礙男性的地方就是這個對於警察還有這個檢體調的人員他們在偵訊過程當中可能當時的這個犯罪事實還不是很清楚\n﹏﹏\n議員（\n﹏﹏\n的有重刑的這個案件的話大概有六千多大概有六千多件嘛我記得所以呢對於整個的法服的經費來講它會大幅的提升那就這個部分來說這的確會增加國家的負擔司法預算經費的負擔那你們未來有沒有什麼比較好的一個應變的做法\n跟委員報告那法服今年的預算大概15億但是還沒有當時還沒有這一個憲判當然憲判出來之後我們會跟法務會法務基金會他們目前正在盤點是不是他們能夠在預算範圍能夠負荷\n除了就是經費的部分還有另外的部分就是說不見得能夠成功派得到法服的律師所以他其實的確是會造成實務上至愛難行之處那本席是認為說其實就現在的這個實務界司法實務界一定會針對大法官所做成的這號限判制感到非常的困擾因為會出現非常多實務上難以處理的問題那這部分的話\n希望法務部還有司法院你們都要盡快提出相關的修法或者是說要積極的召開公聽會、研討會來處理這個問題否則的話我想我們即將要進入了大強制辯護時代\n到底十五屆準備好了嗎?尤其是在基層的第一線人員檢警掉他們對於這方面的認知是否了解而且之後如果說有引用法條錯誤然後之後再來回來有機會再重新去補正那個沒有強制辯護的程序他會是不是會影響到證據力?\n根本報告那事實上我們現在偵查中的辯護我們在刑訴法有關於這個身心障礙或者原住民現在現實上事實上就已經是強制辯護了但現在判決之後未來會增加幾個重罪所以就我們檢警來講其實他已經在偵查中的辯護他已經印製多年了只是未來量的部分會增加只是說做法上是沒有什麼不一樣而且還有涉及到一個問題就是如果說當事人犯罪嫌疑人他不願意\n請律師呢?他不願意就是接受強制辯護對那我們在31條的部分他有做個特別規定他若不願意當然就沒有強制辯護了他如果不願意可是問一些大法官的要求是不管看起來是不管犯律宣言他沒有講要求他跟審判中的強制辯護他做了一個不同強度的處理他如果他不需要或者等待超過4小時我們就不必強制辯護了對\n好那我想就是如果說法務部跟司法院這邊你們過去都已經有了些實務的經驗那麼就應該要更積極迅速的提出修法不要讓外界就對這部分的話不是很清楚未來我們的實務的走法是如何好好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.772 --> 00:25.753\n主席好,現在有請保務部黃次長還有司法院黃副秘書長今天本席所談的還是想說是從\n\n00:27.264 --> 00:51.749\n大法官作成死刑有條件和憲的憲法判決裏面來談這個事情。那麼我們知道大法官在這次的憲法判決裏面其實設下了一些門檻那外界當然有批評大法官是不是造法他設下了這個一些門檻那麼看起來就是現在有待法務部跟司法院可能都分別必須要修法\n\n00:52.449 --> 01:02.916\n那麼再次在這次的大法官所做成的憲法判決當中其實有些地方還是不是很清楚因為他在憲法判決裡面他是針對申請人所提出來的四項死刑的條文那麼做出解釋那麼看起來如果說從我們現在講的這個憲法判決它的主要有效的拘束範圍應該就是指這四條殺人罪那麼要求要有這個要有這個健行強制辯護\n\n01:22.710 --> 01:26.501\n的程序不管是在第三審還是在偵查\n\n01:28.445 --> 01:29.246\n（刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案．\n\n01:59.885 --> 02:15.330\n行事訴訟法應該是請秘書長這邊先回答那委員好那當然這一次的這個那個宪判制他的標的是這四條沒有錯那其他的部分其他的部分沒有沒有沒有在這個標的範圍內那將來如果說\n\n02:18.311 --> 02:39.705\n他們其他的相關有死刑的不在但是不是在這一個事實範圍內要去參照去法務部假因為他是法務部主政法務部參照修法的話那司法院是尊重的因為刑事訴訟法是屬於司法院要修法所以呢就是未來有關於強制辯護的程序的話是會一體適用在所有的死刑\n\n02:40.225 --> 02:55.950\n所以你們現在內部還沒有進行討論嗎?我們正在研議中但是今天假設會有宣告死刑的案例第一個我想刑事訴訟不是只有這四條我們應該會去參照去做相關的這些規範\n\n03:03.772 --> 03:15.310\n這一次只是因為訴訟標的設限在這四條但是還有其他類似的情形所以簡單來說你們會做通盤的考慮對不對通盤的考量是不是全部都要一併修法那法務部呢\n\n03:16.657 --> 03:38.258\n各位報告根據宣判8號的判決意旨跟本部有關係主管法規包括刑法跟監獄刑法的修正那刑法的部分包括19條第二項的不得判處死刑的部分那我們要修在我們的刑法裡面另外有關於訴訟中的這個辯護能力如果欠缺與不得判處死刑這部分刑法裡面要做相應的規定\n\n03:39.119 --> 04:04.044\n另外還有先判之八號提到有關於假釋特殊的假釋要不要提高假釋門檻的部分我們的假釋規定也要做相應的處理。再來有關授刑能力就涉及到我們的監獄刑警法以及刑事訴訟法的修正。好簡單來說你們也是會通盤的考量嗎?不會說是只針對因為這涉及到這四條的死刑罪而被而判刑的這個部分那會\n\n04:07.144 --> 04:07.164\n議員鍾佳濱\n\n04:27.865 --> 04:49.769\n還是你們現在司法院跟法務部這裡的做法是什麼因為我們知道其實有一些案因為這個相關的訴訟案件都在進行中然後呢整個的偵查程序也都是一直在進行中那麼所以就原來已經在偵查程序的這些案子你們要怎麼樣補正相關的這個程序做法\n\n04:51.438 --> 05:11.192\n在審判中的話因為宪判有幾個包含說一致決強制編戶這些都是立即生效的那當然在訴訟進行中的案子我們大概會到宪判一直來做有一些他有給習縣的要研議的那一部分那一部分要看那個主文的很多項我們會到宪判一直來去傳\n\n05:11.792 --> 05:34.724\n但是對於像是這個偵查現在我相信一定這個實務上有非常多的案子都是在這個偵查程序當中那麼所以現在法務部已經要求所有的偵查階段的檢警調都要依照大法官的意旨要實施強制辯護嗎要引進公社律師或是找法復的律師\n\n05:35.818 --> 05:55.059\n跟委員報告齁那我們憲判制大法官他的判決是指就是說偵查中的強制辯護他是原則上希望我們兩年內修法那如果兩年內沒有完成修法的話憲判制他已經有一個具體的指示要該怎麼做那而且他具名指明就是說現在已經存在的程序是不受影響的\n\n05:55.780 --> 06:12.751\n所以就是兩年之後才會正式的開始實施這樣子的一個這樣子的要求對但是我還是要講就是在不斷的提醒因為大法官這次做的限判是事實上已經造成整個偵查當中的可能會發生強制辯護有障礙男性的地方就是這個對於警察還有這個檢體調的人員他們在偵訊過程當中可能當時的這個犯罪事實還不是很清楚\n\n07:34.770 --> 07:57.321\n的有重刑的這個案件的話大概有六千多大概有六千多件嘛我記得所以呢對於整個的法服的經費來講它會大幅的提升那就這個部分來說這的確會增加國家的負擔司法預算經費的負擔那你們未來有沒有什麼比較好的一個應變的做法\n\n07:58.355 --> 08:16.193\n跟委員報告那法服今年的預算大概15億但是還沒有當時還沒有這一個憲判當然憲判出來之後我們會跟法務會法務基金會他們目前正在盤點是不是他們能夠在預算範圍能夠負荷\n\n08:20.417 --> 08:29.659\n除了就是經費的部分還有另外的部分就是說不見得能夠成功派得到法服的律師所以他其實的確是會造成實務上至愛難行之處那本席是認為說其實就現在的這個實務界司法實務界一定會針對大法官所做成的這號限判制感到非常的困擾因為會出現非常多實務上難以處理的問題那這部分的話\n\n08:49.504 --> 09:01.027\n希望法務部還有司法院你們都要盡快提出相關的修法或者是說要積極的召開公聽會、研討會來處理這個問題否則的話我想我們即將要進入了大強制辯護時代\n\n09:12.350 --> 09:31.877\n到底十五屆準備好了嗎?尤其是在基層的第一線人員檢警掉他們對於這方面的認知是否了解而且之後如果說有引用法條錯誤然後之後再來回來有機會再重新去補正那個沒有強制辯護的程序他會是不是會影響到證據力?\n\n09:34.448 --> 10:00.265\n根本報告那事實上我們現在偵查中的辯護我們在刑訴法有關於這個身心障礙或者原住民現在現實上事實上就已經是強制辯護了但現在判決之後未來會增加幾個重罪所以就我們檢警來講其實他已經在偵查中的辯護他已經印製多年了只是未來量的部分會增加只是說做法上是沒有什麼不一樣而且還有涉及到一個問題就是如果說當事人犯罪嫌疑人他不願意\n\n10:02.606 --> 10:25.202\n請律師呢?他不願意就是接受強制辯護對那我們在31條的部分他有做個特別規定他若不願意當然就沒有強制辯護了他如果不願意可是問一些大法官的要求是不管看起來是不管犯律宣言他沒有講要求他跟審判中的強制辯護他做了一個不同強度的處理他如果他不需要或者等待超過4小時我們就不必強制辯護了對\n\n10:26.843 --> 10:43.241\n好那我想就是如果說法務部跟司法院這邊你們過去都已經有了些實務的經驗那麼就應該要更積極迅速的提出修法不要讓外界就對這部分的話不是很清楚未來我們的實務的走法是如何好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.772,"end":25.753,"text":"主席好,現在有請保務部黃次長還有司法院黃副秘書長今天本席所談的還是想說是從"},{"start":27.264,"end":51.749,"text":"大法官作成死刑有條件和憲的憲法判決裏面來談這個事情。那麼我們知道大法官在這次的憲法判決裏面其實設下了一些門檻那外界當然有批評大法官是不是造法他設下了這個一些門檻那麼看起來就是現在有待法務部跟司法院可能都分別必須要修法"},{"start":52.449,"end":62.916,"text":"那麼再次在這次的大法官所做成的憲法判決當中其實有些地方還是不是很清楚因為他在憲法判決裡面他是針對申請人所提出來的四項死刑的條文那麼做出解釋那麼看起來如果說從我們現在講的這個憲法判決它的主要有效的拘束範圍應該就是指這四條殺人罪那麼要求要有這個要有這個健行強制辯護"},{"start":82.71,"end":86.501,"text":"的程序不管是在第三審還是在偵查"},{"start":88.445,"end":89.246,"text":"（刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案．"},{"start":119.885,"end":135.33,"text":"行事訴訟法應該是請秘書長這邊先回答那委員好那當然這一次的這個那個宪判制他的標的是這四條沒有錯那其他的部分其他的部分沒有沒有沒有在這個標的範圍內那將來如果說"},{"start":138.311,"end":159.705,"text":"他們其他的相關有死刑的不在但是不是在這一個事實範圍內要去參照去法務部假因為他是法務部主政法務部參照修法的話那司法院是尊重的因為刑事訴訟法是屬於司法院要修法所以呢就是未來有關於強制辯護的程序的話是會一體適用在所有的死刑"},{"start":160.225,"end":175.95,"text":"所以你們現在內部還沒有進行討論嗎?我們正在研議中但是今天假設會有宣告死刑的案例第一個我想刑事訴訟不是只有這四條我們應該會去參照去做相關的這些規範"},{"start":183.772,"end":195.31,"text":"這一次只是因為訴訟標的設限在這四條但是還有其他類似的情形所以簡單來說你們會做通盤的考慮對不對通盤的考量是不是全部都要一併修法那法務部呢"},{"start":196.657,"end":218.258,"text":"各位報告根據宣判8號的判決意旨跟本部有關係主管法規包括刑法跟監獄刑法的修正那刑法的部分包括19條第二項的不得判處死刑的部分那我們要修在我們的刑法裡面另外有關於訴訟中的這個辯護能力如果欠缺與不得判處死刑這部分刑法裡面要做相應的規定"},{"start":219.119,"end":244.044,"text":"另外還有先判之八號提到有關於假釋特殊的假釋要不要提高假釋門檻的部分我們的假釋規定也要做相應的處理。再來有關授刑能力就涉及到我們的監獄刑警法以及刑事訴訟法的修正。好簡單來說你們也是會通盤的考量嗎?不會說是只針對因為這涉及到這四條的死刑罪而被而判刑的這個部分那會"},{"start":247.144,"end":247.164,"text":"議員鍾佳濱"},{"start":267.865,"end":289.769,"text":"還是你們現在司法院跟法務部這裡的做法是什麼因為我們知道其實有一些案因為這個相關的訴訟案件都在進行中然後呢整個的偵查程序也都是一直在進行中那麼所以就原來已經在偵查程序的這些案子你們要怎麼樣補正相關的這個程序做法"},{"start":291.438,"end":311.192,"text":"在審判中的話因為宪判有幾個包含說一致決強制編戶這些都是立即生效的那當然在訴訟進行中的案子我們大概會到宪判一直來做有一些他有給習縣的要研議的那一部分那一部分要看那個主文的很多項我們會到宪判一直來去傳"},{"start":311.792,"end":334.724,"text":"但是對於像是這個偵查現在我相信一定這個實務上有非常多的案子都是在這個偵查程序當中那麼所以現在法務部已經要求所有的偵查階段的檢警調都要依照大法官的意旨要實施強制辯護嗎要引進公社律師或是找法復的律師"},{"start":335.818,"end":355.059,"text":"跟委員報告齁那我們憲判制大法官他的判決是指就是說偵查中的強制辯護他是原則上希望我們兩年內修法那如果兩年內沒有完成修法的話憲判制他已經有一個具體的指示要該怎麼做那而且他具名指明就是說現在已經存在的程序是不受影響的"},{"start":355.78,"end":372.751,"text":"所以就是兩年之後才會正式的開始實施這樣子的一個這樣子的要求對但是我還是要講就是在不斷的提醒因為大法官這次做的限判是事實上已經造成整個偵查當中的可能會發生強制辯護有障礙男性的地方就是這個對於警察還有這個檢體調的人員他們在偵訊過程當中可能當時的這個犯罪事實還不是很清楚"},{"start":384.138,"end":407.91,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":407.91,"end":434.48,"text":"議員（"},{"start":434.48,"end":454.65,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":454.77,"end":477.321,"text":"的有重刑的這個案件的話大概有六千多大概有六千多件嘛我記得所以呢對於整個的法服的經費來講它會大幅的提升那就這個部分來說這的確會增加國家的負擔司法預算經費的負擔那你們未來有沒有什麼比較好的一個應變的做法"},{"start":478.355,"end":496.193,"text":"跟委員報告那法服今年的預算大概15億但是還沒有當時還沒有這一個憲判當然憲判出來之後我們會跟法務會法務基金會他們目前正在盤點是不是他們能夠在預算範圍能夠負荷"},{"start":500.417,"end":509.659,"text":"除了就是經費的部分還有另外的部分就是說不見得能夠成功派得到法服的律師所以他其實的確是會造成實務上至愛難行之處那本席是認為說其實就現在的這個實務界司法實務界一定會針對大法官所做成的這號限判制感到非常的困擾因為會出現非常多實務上難以處理的問題那這部分的話"},{"start":529.504,"end":541.027,"text":"希望法務部還有司法院你們都要盡快提出相關的修法或者是說要積極的召開公聽會、研討會來處理這個問題否則的話我想我們即將要進入了大強制辯護時代"},{"start":552.35,"end":571.877,"text":"到底十五屆準備好了嗎?尤其是在基層的第一線人員檢警掉他們對於這方面的認知是否了解而且之後如果說有引用法條錯誤然後之後再來回來有機會再重新去補正那個沒有強制辯護的程序他會是不是會影響到證據力?"},{"start":574.448,"end":600.265,"text":"根本報告那事實上我們現在偵查中的辯護我們在刑訴法有關於這個身心障礙或者原住民現在現實上事實上就已經是強制辯護了但現在判決之後未來會增加幾個重罪所以就我們檢警來講其實他已經在偵查中的辯護他已經印製多年了只是未來量的部分會增加只是說做法上是沒有什麼不一樣而且還有涉及到一個問題就是如果說當事人犯罪嫌疑人他不願意"},{"start":602.606,"end":625.202,"text":"請律師呢?他不願意就是接受強制辯護對那我們在31條的部分他有做個特別規定他若不願意當然就沒有強制辯護了他如果不願意可是問一些大法官的要求是不管看起來是不管犯律宣言他沒有講要求他跟審判中的強制辯護他做了一個不同強度的處理他如果他不需要或者等待超過4小時我們就不必強制辯護了對"},{"start":626.843,"end":643.241,"text":"好那我想就是如果說法務部跟司法院這邊你們過去都已經有了些實務的經驗那麼就應該要更積極迅速的提出修法不要讓外界就對這部分的話不是很清楚未來我們的實務的走法是如何好好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":866,"blocks":[["翁委員曉玲：（11時21分）主席好，現在有請法務部黃次長、司法院黃副秘書長。"],["主席：請黃次長、黃副秘書長。"],["黃次長謀信：委員好。"],["翁委員曉玲：好。今天本席所談的還是從大法官作成死刑有條件合憲的這個憲法判決裡面來談這個事情，我們知道，大法官在這次的憲法判決裡面，其實設下了一些門檻，外界當然有批評大法官是不是造法，他們設下了一些門檻，看起來就是現在有待法務部跟司法院分別修法。在這次大法官作成的憲法判決當中，其實有些地方還是不是很清楚，因為在憲法判決裡面，是針對聲請人所提出來的四項死刑的條文作出解釋，如果從我們現在講的憲法判決主要有效的拘束範圍，應該就是指這四條，要求就殺人罪踐行強制辯護的程序，不管是在第三審還是在偵查程序中，都必須要實施強制辯護，同時合議庭也必須採取一致決，因此本席現在想瞭解，法務部未來在整個修法方向裡面，是否會只針對這四項死刑罪去修法？還有司法院現在的態度是什麼？你們什麼時候會提出相關的修法？這是本席想要先請教兩位的問題，就刑事訴訟法的部分，應該是請副秘書長先回答。"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：委員好。這一次的憲判字的標的是這四條沒有錯，其他的部分沒有在這個標的的範圍內，將來如果有其他與死刑相關的部分，但是不是在這一個釋字範圍內，要去參照法務部講的，因為是法務部主政，法務部參照修法的話，那司法院是尊重的。"],["翁委員曉玲：因為刑事訴訟法是屬於司法院要修法，所以未來有關於強制辯護的程序的話，是會一體適用在所有的死刑……"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：這部分我們會去參考，雖然不在這個範圍內……"],["翁委員曉玲：所以你們現在內部還沒有進行討論嗎？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：我們正在研議中，但是今天假設會有宣告死刑的案件，第一個，我想刑事訴訟不是只有這四條，我們應該會去參照，去做相關的這些規範。這次只是因為訴訟標的設限在這四條，但是還有其他類似的情形……"],["翁委員曉玲：所以簡單來說，你們會做通盤的考慮，對不對？通盤的考量，是不是全部都要一併修法？那法務部呢？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，根據憲判字第8號的判決意旨，跟本部有關係的主管法規，包括刑法跟監獄行刑法，都要修正。那刑法的部分，包括第十九條第二項的不得判處死刑的部分，我們要修在刑法裡面。","另外，有關於訴訟中的辯護能力，如有欠缺，不得判處死刑，這部分刑法裡面要做相應的規定。","另外還有憲判字第8號提到有關於特殊的假釋要不要提高假釋門檻的部分，我們的假釋規定也要做相應的處理。","有關受刑能力，就涉及到我們的監獄行刑法及刑事訴訟法的修正。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，簡單來說，你們也是會通盤考量？"],["黃次長謀信：當然，當然。"],["翁委員曉玲：不會只針對涉及到這四條死刑罪而判刑的部分，而會就整體的所有涉及到死刑的條文都一併修法？"],["黃次長謀信：我們一併來處理。"],["翁委員曉玲：好。那現在的情況就是說，因為大法官的憲法判決已經作成了，那麼在這段時間你們的態度是怎麼樣？是立刻就要依照大法官的判決意旨來處理？司法院跟法務部的做法是什麼？因為我們知道，其實有一些相關的訴訟案件都在進行中，然後整個偵查程序也一直在進行中，原來已經在偵查程序的這些案子，你們要怎麼樣補正相關的程序、做法？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：在審判中的話，因為憲判有幾個，包含一致決、強制辯護，這些都是立即生效的，當然，在訴訟進行中的案子，我們大概會照憲判意旨來做，有一些有給期限要研議的部分，要看主文，主文有很多項，我們會依照憲判意旨來去處理。"],["翁委員曉玲：但是對於偵查，我相信實務上一定有非常多的案子，都是在這個偵查程序當中，所以現在法務部已經要求所有偵查階段的檢警調，都要依照大法官的意旨實施強制辯護嗎？要引進公設律師，或是找法扶的律師？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，憲判字大法官的判決是指，偵查中的強制辯護，原則上希望我們兩年內修法，那如果兩年內沒有完成修法的話，憲判字已經有一個具體的指示該怎麼做，而且它具體指明，現在已經存在的程序是不受影響的。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，所以就是兩年之後才會正式開始實施這樣子的要求。"],["黃次長謀信：偵查中的強制辯護，對。"],["翁委員曉玲：對，但是我還是要講，不斷提醒，因為大法官這次做的憲判字，事實上已經造成整個偵查當中可能會發生強制辯護有窒礙難行的地方，警察和檢警調人員他們在偵訊過程當中，可能當時的犯罪事實還不是很清楚，或許他們一開始適用的法條也都有錯誤，所以事後如何要補正因為欠缺強制辯護所引起的證據力受影響這個問題，這個部分法務部跟司法院都應該要好好地去研析相關的問題。","還有，我們知道在偵查程序當中，未來會有法扶的律師進來，可是法律扶助基金會的經費，我看到這一次114年預算書當中，當然司法院可能當時還來不及應變，所以沒有提出相關的預算修正案，但是事實上這也很重要，對不對？這應該也要趕快準備。","還有就是說，本席有去整理目前法扶的狀況，事實上，每一年大概有六萬多件要申請法扶的待核准並予以扶助的案件，在檢警偵訊當中，在檢警的偵查程序當中，有法扶的律師陪同的大概有四千多件，如果說一般案件裡面有重刑案件的話，大概也有六千多件，我記得是這樣，所以整個法扶的經費會大幅提升，就這個部分來說，的確會增加國家在司法預算經費的負擔，你們未來有沒有什麼比較好的一個應變的做法？"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：跟委員報告，法扶今年的預算大概15億，但是當時還沒有這一個憲判，憲判出來之後，我們會跟法扶基金會討論，他們目前正在盤點，我們會瞭解他們在預算範圍內是不是能夠負荷，但是這個盤點……"],["翁委員曉玲：是，除了經費的部分，還有另外一個部分，就是不見得能夠成功派得到法扶的律師，所以的確會造成實務上窒礙難行之處。本席認為，其實現在司法實務界一定會對大法官所作成的這號憲判字感到非常困擾，因為會出現非常多實務上難以處理的問題。這部分的話，希望法務部和司法院都要儘快提出相關的修法，或者是積極召開公聽會、研討會，然後來處理這個問題，否則的話，我想我們即將進入大強制辯護時代。到底實務界準備好了嗎？尤其是在基層的第一線人員檢警調，他們對於這方面的認知，他們是否了解，而且之後如果有引用法條錯誤，然後之後再回來，有機會再重新去補正那個沒有強制辯護的程序，是不是會影響到證據力？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，事實上現在在偵查中的辯護，我們在刑訴法中，針對身心障礙者或原住民，現在事實上就已經是強制辯護了，當然憲判字判決之後，未來會增加幾個重罪，所以就我們檢警來講，其實在偵查中的辯護已經運作多年了，只是未來量的部分會增加，至於做法上是沒有什麼不一樣的。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，而且涉及到一個問題，就是如果說當事人、犯罪嫌疑人不願意請律師呢？他不願意接受強制辯護。"],["黃次長謀信：那麼在第三十一條有一個特別規定，他如果不願意，當然就沒有強制辯護了，他如果……"],["翁委員曉玲：可是現在大法官的要求是，不管犯罪嫌疑人同不同意……"],["黃次長謀信：他沒有這樣要求，這跟審判中的強制辯護做了一個不同強度的處理，如果他不需要，或者等待超過四小時，我們就不必強制辯護了。"],["黃副秘書長麟倫：它有設例外。"],["翁委員曉玲：好。我想，法務部跟司法院過去都已經有了一些實務的經驗，那麼就應該要更積極、迅速地提出修法，不要讓外界對於這部分不是很清楚，不知未來我們實務的走法是如何。"],["黃次長謀信：好，謝謝委員。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。那我們接下來請蘇清泉委員。蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員不在。","好，我們麻煩翁曉玲委員暫代主席。"],["主席（翁委員曉玲代）：現在有請吳宗憲委員質詢，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-8","speakers":["吳宗憲","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","黃國昌","沈發惠","羅智強","林思銘","吳思瑤","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","翁曉玲","陳俊宇"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1139001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"併案審查(一)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員鍾佳濱等19人\n擬具「刑事訴訟法第一百五十三條之十條文修正草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1139001_00001"}}}