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0.778}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 419.435, \"end\": 419.555, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 419.555, \"end\": 419.855, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 419.855, \"end\": 420.675, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 420.675, \"end\": 420.755, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 420.755, \"end\": 420.856, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 420.856, \"end\": 420.876, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}]}, {\"start\": 422.116, \"end\": 449.438, \"text\": \"我知道我們未來在南院的話就會有一個專業的修復工房那這個專業的修復工房的話未來的話就要銜接國內的譬如說南義大他有谷物修復研究所或是營科大他們這些同仁的話在學校的時候進入到一個階段就可以跟故宮建教合作用這樣的方式我覺得我是覺得反不濟急啦現在講的計畫都還很久遠請你先提一個方案出來好不好擴充這個人力啦\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 422.116, \"end\": 422.236, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 422.236, \"end\": 422.336, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 422.336, \"end\": 422.656, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": 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\"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"銜\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 429.682, \"end\": 430.723, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 430.723, \"end\": 430.863, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"譬\", \"start\": 430.863, \"end\": 431.043, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 431.043, \"end\": 431.223, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"南\", \"start\": 431.223, \"end\": 431.544, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 431.544, \"end\": 431.724, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 431.724, \"end\": 431.884, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 431.884, \"end\": 432.244, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"谷\", \"start\": 432.244, \"end\": 432.364, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"物\", \"start\": 432.364, \"end\": 432.504, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 432.504, \"end\": 432.764, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"復\"}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 432.764, 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\"end\": 442.392, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 442.392, \"end\": 442.632, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 442.632, \"end\": 442.772, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 442.772, \"end\": 443.133, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"急\", \"start\": 443.133, \"end\": 443.333, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 443.333, \"end\": 443.573, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 443.573, \"end\": 444.033, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 444.033, \"end\": 444.734, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"畫\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 444.734, \"end\": 444.854, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 444.854, \"end\": 445.094, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"久\", \"start\": 445.094, \"end\": 446.475, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"遠\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 446.475, \"end\": 446.575, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 446.575, \"end\": 446.856, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 446.856, \"end\": 446.976, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 446.976, \"end\": 447.716, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 447.716, \"end\": 447.856, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 447.856, \"end\": 447.997, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 447.997, \"end\": 448.157, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 448.157, \"end\": 448.417, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 448.417, \"end\": 448.637, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 448.637, \"end\": 448.797, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"擴\"}, {\"word\": \"充\", \"start\": 448.797, \"end\": 449.077, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 449.077, \"end\": 449.238, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 449.238, 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{\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"弱\", \"start\": 535.388, \"end\": 535.408, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 541.111, \"end\": 557.736, \"text\": \"決心的問題啦你最近一次處理這個事情是什麼時候七月份吧七月份現在幾月現在十月那你覺得三個月不問不問這樣對嗎沒有啦一季我們一季處理一次所以這個東西在網路上你們也不覺得很重要嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 541.111, \"end\": 541.291, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 541.291, \"end\": 541.811, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 541.811, \"end\": 542.752, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 542.752, \"end\": 542.912, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 542.912, \"end\": 543.072, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"近\", \"start\": 543.072, \"end\": 543.872, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 543.872, \"end\": 544.052, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 544.052, \"end\": 544.812, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 544.812, \"end\": 544.952, 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00:01:13,430\n院長討論一個就是有關於織品的部分先請教院長在我們故宮博物院裡面織品有沒有什麼比較有名的一些國寶你跟大家分享一下有沒有就你的了解對織品的國寶的話我不是很清楚因為有客司有織品的部分所以故宮博物院院長對於國寶不是很了解喔\n\n4\n00:01:15,523 --> 00:01:16,924\n我問說在故宮的典藏裡面有沒有資品比較有名的?\n\n5\n00:01:35,175 --> 00:01:54,421\n比如說故宮國寶比如說像翠白菜大家都講出來嘛清明上河圖是屬於書畫部分啊然後像肉形石等等等等我現在是問說有沒有您覺得很有名的織品有沒有我跟委員報告實話實說真的我你真的不知道對所以是因為沒有還是你不知道\n\n6\n00:01:56,132 --> 00:02:09,499\n之品裡面有沒有國寶我不曉得有應該是OK花同仁跟我講說有一間國寶就是老會及景冊花間形容就是就是有一件國寶\n\n7\n00:02:11,201 --> 00:02:28,542\n應該不只啦應該不只啦我們應該有好幾件應該是有好幾件那希望那為什麼我會特別講織品呢因為我們現在根據故宮的典藏文物織品的數量大概是有1626件基本上它也不算少它比玉器啊漆器\n\n8\n00:02:29,503 --> 00:02:51,507\n還有像雕刻啊這一類都多那當然是略少於陶瓷器跟銅器但他應該也算是非常多元多量的一個國寶之一但現在有一個非常嚴重的問題什麼問題呢這個這個表格啊院長看一下這是113年10月修護人員的配置我們會發現在這個書畫類的\n\n9\n00:02:54,648 --> 00:03:10,706\n人員總共編制是6位古籍檔案編制人員是5位器物的編制人員是4位但是織品類編制內只有一位編制外零換句話說這剛剛我講到這1000多件的織品\n\n10\n00:03:11,846 --> 00:03:29,105\n是誰來修復誰來保養就只有一位同仁只有一位同仁那這一位同仁他還沒有職務代理人如果他今天有事請假休假那或者是說萬一他離職那現在我們就沒有人負責織品了\n\n11\n00:03:30,968 --> 00:03:45,022\n我個人覺得是一件算是嚴重的事情而且我不知道院長你知不知道其實故宮的像這種修復人員不管你是修復書畫器物啊或者是哪一類的人員都很搶手國外有很多拍賣中心啊\n\n12\n00:03:46,375 --> 00:04:15,455\n蘇比士或什麼的拍賣中心都很喜歡挖角故宮的這一類人才因為這一類人才對於這種有價值的文物是比較有鑑定能力的他們都很喜歡找故宮人才去那萬一你現在看起來雖然像是什麼器物啊侍衛看起來比較多但是一旦面臨到挖角或者是他有事情因任何的原因離職你就沒有人在做這件事情了這個其實我覺得\n\n13\n00:04:16,495 --> 00:04:40,132\n是還蠻嚴重的事情我不知道說院長你的看法是怎樣先講資品的部分因為故宮的確就是有一千多件的資品那一千多件的資品的話其實以分類的類像來講是最少的雖然是所謂的滑鐵或是踏片比他多可是因為他放在書文的整體的類像裡面所以資品的部分的話因為\n\n14\n00:04:42,074 --> 00:04:59,144\n國慶展示的機會也比較少然後他狀況也比較穩定那最近的話其實那個數量大部分很多都是難驗的難驗的資品的狀況入場的時候狀況都不錯所以並不是說每一件都要拿來修修補補沒有因為買的時候就已經挑過了\n\n15\n00:05:00,423 --> 00:05:29,543\n欸我覺得也不是院長這樣講好像資品在故宮博物院連不重要一樣但是其實故宮南院最近才辦了一個亞洲資品展嘛對不對所以代表說資品對你們來說也是很重要的保障之一那我現在是對但是院長給我的感覺是說資品沒那麼嚴重啦也不容易壞啦然後我們量也不多啦所以助理研究員藝人還好啦\n\n16\n00:05:30,504 --> 00:05:40,320\n你是這個意思嗎那你覺得一個人夠的嗎我當然希望有更多的人力你希望有更多人力可是你剛剛給我的感覺不是第一時間這樣子回答\n\n17\n00:05:41,192 --> 00:06:04,025\n你如果我們今天把這個問題告訴你你如果認為這個能力不夠你第一時間回答應該是說你覺得我們應該要挖掘更多人才來讓我們的國保得到妥善的照顧但是你的回答不是啊你的回答是說跟委員報告資品其實在我們故宮裡面不算多啦所以你的回答的方式其實第一時間就凸顯你內心的真正想法\n\n18\n00:06:04,565 --> 00:06:33,684\n就是對於資品不重視嗎所以一個人也還好但我覺得這樣的態度大家會很緊張因為國寶這些我們上個會期也跟院長就教過這個是多少人花盡心血甚至喪失生命把它運來的那我們都希望每一個國寶得到最妥善的照顧那故宮博物院就擔這個重責大任但是院長好像對於國寶的重視程度並沒有我們想像的這麼高\n\n19\n00:06:34,725 --> 00:07:00,876\n那所以我再問你一次,現在職品研究員一人你覺得夠嗎?整體來講的話,我剛先講職品,整體來講的話故宮的修復人力其實是不足的。不足的,那請問一下你提出了什麼改善的計畫,要擴充人力?因為擴充人力的話,其實以故宮編制來講的話每年都減一兩個減一兩個,實際上要擴充人力不太容易。那你就覺得,不是啦,院長。\n\n20\n00:07:02,116 --> 00:07:29,438\n我知道我們未來在南院的話就會有一個專業的修復工房那這個專業的修復工房的話未來的話就要銜接國內的譬如說南義大他有谷物修復研究所或是營科大他們這些同仁的話在學校的時候進入到一個階段就可以跟故宮建教合作用這樣的方式我覺得我是覺得反不濟急啦現在講的計畫都還很久遠請你先提一個方案出來好不好擴充這個人力啦\n\n21\n00:07:30,461 --> 00:07:46,228\n因為擴充能力的話就要要求增加能力這個是沒有不太容易的那另外﹖所以就擺爛喔不是擺爛另外的話像比如說我在臺北館的時候我會擺沒有啦我不用扯這麼遠啦現在就你自己也認為能力不夠嘛那你要不要擴充嘛就這個問題那麼簡單嘛\n\n22\n00:07:47,728 --> 00:08:08,667\n要還是不要的問題而已嘛要就提出方案出來嘛OK好我們想辦法來擴充然後我會去跟行政院爭取在我們的基建這樣才對嘛你為什麼剛剛回答的感覺都是你根本不重視這件事情不是不重視然後另外一件事情這個你就提方案出來還有一個就是我們上個會期一直要求你去做的我們一直希望說故宮博物院可以去\n\n23\n00:08:11,309 --> 00:08:36,144\n這爭取自己的權益跟商譽啦那這個所謂的台北故宮交流中心這是一個冒用的一個抖音上面的帳號明明就不是故宮的授權單位但他卻可以在平台上面大剌剌的做授權的生意那這個上個會期故宮說要去提告啊就提告到哪裡去了就提告了他已經下架了沒有這昨天才查到的啊怎麼會下架\n\n24\n00:08:38,500 --> 00:08:55,408\n因為我們大概起碼至少一季就上次去告一次可是你們就是隨隨便便嗎就是沒有認真去告嗎有叫警察積極去查嗎因為這個部分的話警察沒有辦法查我們透過大陸的律師現在的司法有那麼弱嗎\n\n25\n00:09:01,111 --> 00:09:17,736\n決心的問題啦你最近一次處理這個事情是什麼時候七月份吧七月份現在幾月現在十月那你覺得三個月不問不問這樣對嗎沒有啦一季我們一季處理一次所以這個東西在網路上你們也不覺得很重要嗎\n\n26\n00:09:19,135 --> 00:09:44,961\n請你捍衛你自己的商譽好嗎?如果有人打著故宮的名號在做授權生意你們卻覺得無所謂一記再處理一次就好了這就是回到剛剛的態度就是故宮對於國保不重視故宮對於商譽也不重視這個我自己認為說這個是院長最應該做的事情啦但是我覺得很遺憾就是你對於外界期待你的工作你並不是那麼的重視那如果沒關係下次我再繼續問你啦好謝謝\n\n27\n00:09:48,835 --> 00:09:48,999\n好謝謝葉元\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n489\t2612\t好,接下來我們有請葉元之委員質詢。好,有請蕭院長。\n22231\t49337\t院長早安這個故宮博物院的裡面的國寶大家都非常的重視也希望國寶可以有好的保存然後也希望國寶如果就是平常有什麼問題的話可以及時的修復而且呢可以定期的保養那在這個部分的話能力就非常的重要就是到底我們有沒有這方面的專業的人才到底有沒有足夠的能力可以去修復我現在先跟\n50537\t73430\t院長討論一個就是有關於織品的部分先請教院長在我們故宮博物院裡面織品有沒有什麼比較有名的一些國寶你跟大家分享一下有沒有就你的了解對織品的國寶的話我不是很清楚因為有客司有織品的部分所以故宮博物院院長對於國寶不是很了解喔\n75523\t76924\t我問說在故宮的典藏裡面有沒有資品比較有名的?\n95175\t114421\t比如說故宮國寶比如說像翠白菜大家都講出來嘛清明上河圖是屬於書畫部分啊然後像肉形石等等等等我現在是問說有沒有您覺得很有名的織品有沒有我跟委員報告實話實說真的我你真的不知道對所以是因為沒有還是你不知道\n116132\t129499\t之品裡面有沒有國寶我不曉得有應該是OK花同仁跟我講說有一間國寶就是老會及景冊花間形容就是就是有一件國寶\n131201\t148542\t應該不只啦應該不只啦我們應該有好幾件應該是有好幾件那希望那為什麼我會特別講織品呢因為我們現在根據故宮的典藏文物織品的數量大概是有1626件基本上它也不算少它比玉器啊漆器\n149503\t171507\t還有像雕刻啊這一類都多那當然是略少於陶瓷器跟銅器但他應該也算是非常多元多量的一個國寶之一但現在有一個非常嚴重的問題什麼問題呢這個這個表格啊院長看一下這是113年10月修護人員的配置我們會發現在這個書畫類的\n174648\t190706\t人員總共編制是6位古籍檔案編制人員是5位器物的編制人員是4位但是織品類編制內只有一位編制外零換句話說這剛剛我講到這1000多件的織品\n191846\t209105\t是誰來修復誰來保養就只有一位同仁只有一位同仁那這一位同仁他還沒有職務代理人如果他今天有事請假休假那或者是說萬一他離職那現在我們就沒有人負責織品了\n210968\t225022\t我個人覺得是一件算是嚴重的事情而且我不知道院長你知不知道其實故宮的像這種修復人員不管你是修復書畫器物啊或者是哪一類的人員都很搶手國外有很多拍賣中心啊\n226375\t255455\t蘇比士或什麼的拍賣中心都很喜歡挖角故宮的這一類人才因為這一類人才對於這種有價值的文物是比較有鑑定能力的他們都很喜歡找故宮人才去那萬一你現在看起來雖然像是什麼器物啊侍衛看起來比較多但是一旦面臨到挖角或者是他有事情因任何的原因離職你就沒有人在做這件事情了這個其實我覺得\n256495\t280132\t是還蠻嚴重的事情我不知道說院長你的看法是怎樣先講資品的部分因為故宮的確就是有一千多件的資品那一千多件的資品的話其實以分類的類像來講是最少的雖然是所謂的滑鐵或是踏片比他多可是因為他放在書文的整體的類像裡面所以資品的部分的話因為\n282074\t299144\t國慶展示的機會也比較少然後他狀況也比較穩定那最近的話其實那個數量大部分很多都是難驗的難驗的資品的狀況入場的時候狀況都不錯所以並不是說每一件都要拿來修修補補沒有因為買的時候就已經挑過了\n300423\t329543\t欸我覺得也不是院長這樣講好像資品在故宮博物院連不重要一樣但是其實故宮南院最近才辦了一個亞洲資品展嘛對不對所以代表說資品對你們來說也是很重要的保障之一那我現在是對但是院長給我的感覺是說資品沒那麼嚴重啦也不容易壞啦然後我們量也不多啦所以助理研究員藝人還好啦\n330504\t340320\t你是這個意思嗎那你覺得一個人夠的嗎我當然希望有更多的人力你希望有更多人力可是你剛剛給我的感覺不是第一時間這樣子回答\n341192\t364025\t你如果我們今天把這個問題告訴你你如果認為這個能力不夠你第一時間回答應該是說你覺得我們應該要挖掘更多人才來讓我們的國保得到妥善的照顧但是你的回答不是啊你的回答是說跟委員報告資品其實在我們故宮裡面不算多啦所以你的回答的方式其實第一時間就凸顯你內心的真正想法\n364565\t393684\t就是對於資品不重視嗎所以一個人也還好但我覺得這樣的態度大家會很緊張因為國寶這些我們上個會期也跟院長就教過這個是多少人花盡心血甚至喪失生命把它運來的那我們都希望每一個國寶得到最妥善的照顧那故宮博物院就擔這個重責大任但是院長好像對於國寶的重視程度並沒有我們想像的這麼高\n394725\t420876\t那所以我再問你一次,現在職品研究員一人你覺得夠嗎?整體來講的話,我剛先講職品,整體來講的話故宮的修復人力其實是不足的。不足的,那請問一下你提出了什麼改善的計畫,要擴充人力?因為擴充人力的話,其實以故宮編制來講的話每年都減一兩個減一兩個,實際上要擴充人力不太容易。那你就覺得,不是啦,院長。\n422116\t449438\t我知道我們未來在南院的話就會有一個專業的修復工房那這個專業的修復工房的話未來的話就要銜接國內的譬如說南義大他有谷物修復研究所或是營科大他們這些同仁的話在學校的時候進入到一個階段就可以跟故宮建教合作用這樣的方式我覺得我是覺得反不濟急啦現在講的計畫都還很久遠請你先提一個方案出來好不好擴充這個人力啦\n450461\t466228\t因為擴充能力的話就要要求增加能力這個是沒有不太容易的那另外﹖所以就擺爛喔不是擺爛另外的話像比如說我在臺北館的時候我會擺沒有啦我不用扯這麼遠啦現在就你自己也認為能力不夠嘛那你要不要擴充嘛就這個問題那麼簡單嘛\n467728\t488667\t要還是不要的問題而已嘛要就提出方案出來嘛OK好我們想辦法來擴充然後我會去跟行政院爭取在我們的基建這樣才對嘛你為什麼剛剛回答的感覺都是你根本不重視這件事情不是不重視然後另外一件事情這個你就提方案出來還有一個就是我們上個會期一直要求你去做的我們一直希望說故宮博物院可以去\n491309\t516144\t這爭取自己的權益跟商譽啦那這個所謂的台北故宮交流中心這是一個冒用的一個抖音上面的帳號明明就不是故宮的授權單位但他卻可以在平台上面大剌剌的做授權的生意那這個上個會期故宮說要去提告啊就提告到哪裡去了就提告了他已經下架了沒有這昨天才查到的啊怎麼會下架\n518500\t535408\t因為我們大概起碼至少一季就上次去告一次可是你們就是隨隨便便嗎就是沒有認真去告嗎有叫警察積極去查嗎因為這個部分的話警察沒有辦法查我們透過大陸的律師現在的司法有那麼弱嗎\n541111\t557736\t決心的問題啦你最近一次處理這個事情是什麼時候七月份吧七月份現在幾月現在十月那你覺得三個月不問不問這樣對嗎沒有啦一季我們一季處理一次所以這個東西在網路上你們也不覺得很重要嗎\n559135\t584961\t請你捍衛你自己的商譽好嗎?如果有人打著故宮的名號在做授權生意你們卻覺得無所謂一記再處理一次就好了這就是回到剛剛的態度就是故宮對於國保不重視故宮對於商譽也不重視這個我自己認為說這個是院長最應該做的事情啦但是我覺得很遺憾就是你對於外界期待你的工作你並不是那麼的重視那如果沒關係下次我再繼續問你啦好謝謝\n588835\t588999\t好謝謝葉元\n","txt":"好,接下來我們有請葉元之委員質詢。好,有請蕭院長。\n院長早安這個故宮博物院的裡面的國寶大家都非常的重視也希望國寶可以有好的保存然後也希望國寶如果就是平常有什麼問題的話可以及時的修復而且呢可以定期的保養那在這個部分的話能力就非常的重要就是到底我們有沒有這方面的專業的人才到底有沒有足夠的能力可以去修復我現在先跟\n院長討論一個就是有關於織品的部分先請教院長在我們故宮博物院裡面織品有沒有什麼比較有名的一些國寶你跟大家分享一下有沒有就你的了解對織品的國寶的話我不是很清楚因為有客司有織品的部分所以故宮博物院院長對於國寶不是很了解喔\n我問說在故宮的典藏裡面有沒有資品比較有名的?\n比如說故宮國寶比如說像翠白菜大家都講出來嘛清明上河圖是屬於書畫部分啊然後像肉形石等等等等我現在是問說有沒有您覺得很有名的織品有沒有我跟委員報告實話實說真的我你真的不知道對所以是因為沒有還是你不知道\n之品裡面有沒有國寶我不曉得有應該是OK花同仁跟我講說有一間國寶就是老會及景冊花間形容就是就是有一件國寶\n應該不只啦應該不只啦我們應該有好幾件應該是有好幾件那希望那為什麼我會特別講織品呢因為我們現在根據故宮的典藏文物織品的數量大概是有1626件基本上它也不算少它比玉器啊漆器\n還有像雕刻啊這一類都多那當然是略少於陶瓷器跟銅器但他應該也算是非常多元多量的一個國寶之一但現在有一個非常嚴重的問題什麼問題呢這個這個表格啊院長看一下這是113年10月修護人員的配置我們會發現在這個書畫類的\n人員總共編制是6位古籍檔案編制人員是5位器物的編制人員是4位但是織品類編制內只有一位編制外零換句話說這剛剛我講到這1000多件的織品\n是誰來修復誰來保養就只有一位同仁只有一位同仁那這一位同仁他還沒有職務代理人如果他今天有事請假休假那或者是說萬一他離職那現在我們就沒有人負責織品了\n我個人覺得是一件算是嚴重的事情而且我不知道院長你知不知道其實故宮的像這種修復人員不管你是修復書畫器物啊或者是哪一類的人員都很搶手國外有很多拍賣中心啊\n蘇比士或什麼的拍賣中心都很喜歡挖角故宮的這一類人才因為這一類人才對於這種有價值的文物是比較有鑑定能力的他們都很喜歡找故宮人才去那萬一你現在看起來雖然像是什麼器物啊侍衛看起來比較多但是一旦面臨到挖角或者是他有事情因任何的原因離職你就沒有人在做這件事情了這個其實我覺得\n是還蠻嚴重的事情我不知道說院長你的看法是怎樣先講資品的部分因為故宮的確就是有一千多件的資品那一千多件的資品的話其實以分類的類像來講是最少的雖然是所謂的滑鐵或是踏片比他多可是因為他放在書文的整體的類像裡面所以資品的部分的話因為\n國慶展示的機會也比較少然後他狀況也比較穩定那最近的話其實那個數量大部分很多都是難驗的難驗的資品的狀況入場的時候狀況都不錯所以並不是說每一件都要拿來修修補補沒有因為買的時候就已經挑過了\n欸我覺得也不是院長這樣講好像資品在故宮博物院連不重要一樣但是其實故宮南院最近才辦了一個亞洲資品展嘛對不對所以代表說資品對你們來說也是很重要的保障之一那我現在是對但是院長給我的感覺是說資品沒那麼嚴重啦也不容易壞啦然後我們量也不多啦所以助理研究員藝人還好啦\n你是這個意思嗎那你覺得一個人夠的嗎我當然希望有更多的人力你希望有更多人力可是你剛剛給我的感覺不是第一時間這樣子回答\n你如果我們今天把這個問題告訴你你如果認為這個能力不夠你第一時間回答應該是說你覺得我們應該要挖掘更多人才來讓我們的國保得到妥善的照顧但是你的回答不是啊你的回答是說跟委員報告資品其實在我們故宮裡面不算多啦所以你的回答的方式其實第一時間就凸顯你內心的真正想法\n就是對於資品不重視嗎所以一個人也還好但我覺得這樣的態度大家會很緊張因為國寶這些我們上個會期也跟院長就教過這個是多少人花盡心血甚至喪失生命把它運來的那我們都希望每一個國寶得到最妥善的照顧那故宮博物院就擔這個重責大任但是院長好像對於國寶的重視程度並沒有我們想像的這麼高\n那所以我再問你一次,現在職品研究員一人你覺得夠嗎?整體來講的話,我剛先講職品,整體來講的話故宮的修復人力其實是不足的。不足的,那請問一下你提出了什麼改善的計畫,要擴充人力?因為擴充人力的話,其實以故宮編制來講的話每年都減一兩個減一兩個,實際上要擴充人力不太容易。那你就覺得,不是啦,院長。\n我知道我們未來在南院的話就會有一個專業的修復工房那這個專業的修復工房的話未來的話就要銜接國內的譬如說南義大他有谷物修復研究所或是營科大他們這些同仁的話在學校的時候進入到一個階段就可以跟故宮建教合作用這樣的方式我覺得我是覺得反不濟急啦現在講的計畫都還很久遠請你先提一個方案出來好不好擴充這個人力啦\n因為擴充能力的話就要要求增加能力這個是沒有不太容易的那另外﹖所以就擺爛喔不是擺爛另外的話像比如說我在臺北館的時候我會擺沒有啦我不用扯這麼遠啦現在就你自己也認為能力不夠嘛那你要不要擴充嘛就這個問題那麼簡單嘛\n要還是不要的問題而已嘛要就提出方案出來嘛OK好我們想辦法來擴充然後我會去跟行政院爭取在我們的基建這樣才對嘛你為什麼剛剛回答的感覺都是你根本不重視這件事情不是不重視然後另外一件事情這個你就提方案出來還有一個就是我們上個會期一直要求你去做的我們一直希望說故宮博物院可以去\n這爭取自己的權益跟商譽啦那這個所謂的台北故宮交流中心這是一個冒用的一個抖音上面的帳號明明就不是故宮的授權單位但他卻可以在平台上面大剌剌的做授權的生意那這個上個會期故宮說要去提告啊就提告到哪裡去了就提告了他已經下架了沒有這昨天才查到的啊怎麼會下架\n因為我們大概起碼至少一季就上次去告一次可是你們就是隨隨便便嗎就是沒有認真去告嗎有叫警察積極去查嗎因為這個部分的話警察沒有辦法查我們透過大陸的律師現在的司法有那麼弱嗎\n決心的問題啦你最近一次處理這個事情是什麼時候七月份吧七月份現在幾月現在十月那你覺得三個月不問不問這樣對嗎沒有啦一季我們一季處理一次所以這個東西在網路上你們也不覺得很重要嗎\n請你捍衛你自己的商譽好嗎?如果有人打著故宮的名號在做授權生意你們卻覺得無所謂一記再處理一次就好了這就是回到剛剛的態度就是故宮對於國保不重視故宮對於商譽也不重視這個我自己認為說這個是院長最應該做的事情啦但是我覺得很遺憾就是你對於外界期待你的工作你並不是那麼的重視那如果沒關係下次我再繼續問你啦好謝謝\n好謝謝葉元\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.489 --> 00:02.612\n好,接下來我們有請葉元之委員質詢。好,有請蕭院長。\n\n00:22.231 --> 00:49.337\n院長早安這個故宮博物院的裡面的國寶大家都非常的重視也希望國寶可以有好的保存然後也希望國寶如果就是平常有什麼問題的話可以及時的修復而且呢可以定期的保養那在這個部分的話能力就非常的重要就是到底我們有沒有這方面的專業的人才到底有沒有足夠的能力可以去修復我現在先跟\n\n00:50.537 --> 01:13.430\n院長討論一個就是有關於織品的部分先請教院長在我們故宮博物院裡面織品有沒有什麼比較有名的一些國寶你跟大家分享一下有沒有就你的了解對織品的國寶的話我不是很清楚因為有客司有織品的部分所以故宮博物院院長對於國寶不是很了解喔\n\n01:15.523 --> 01:16.924\n我問說在故宮的典藏裡面有沒有資品比較有名的?\n\n01:35.175 --> 01:54.421\n比如說故宮國寶比如說像翠白菜大家都講出來嘛清明上河圖是屬於書畫部分啊然後像肉形石等等等等我現在是問說有沒有您覺得很有名的織品有沒有我跟委員報告實話實說真的我你真的不知道對所以是因為沒有還是你不知道\n\n01:56.132 --> 02:09.499\n之品裡面有沒有國寶我不曉得有應該是OK花同仁跟我講說有一間國寶就是老會及景冊花間形容就是就是有一件國寶\n\n02:11.201 --> 02:28.542\n應該不只啦應該不只啦我們應該有好幾件應該是有好幾件那希望那為什麼我會特別講織品呢因為我們現在根據故宮的典藏文物織品的數量大概是有1626件基本上它也不算少它比玉器啊漆器\n\n02:29.503 --> 02:51.507\n還有像雕刻啊這一類都多那當然是略少於陶瓷器跟銅器但他應該也算是非常多元多量的一個國寶之一但現在有一個非常嚴重的問題什麼問題呢這個這個表格啊院長看一下這是113年10月修護人員的配置我們會發現在這個書畫類的\n\n02:54.648 --> 03:10.706\n人員總共編制是6位古籍檔案編制人員是5位器物的編制人員是4位但是織品類編制內只有一位編制外零換句話說這剛剛我講到這1000多件的織品\n\n03:11.846 --> 03:29.105\n是誰來修復誰來保養就只有一位同仁只有一位同仁那這一位同仁他還沒有職務代理人如果他今天有事請假休假那或者是說萬一他離職那現在我們就沒有人負責織品了\n\n03:30.968 --> 03:45.022\n我個人覺得是一件算是嚴重的事情而且我不知道院長你知不知道其實故宮的像這種修復人員不管你是修復書畫器物啊或者是哪一類的人員都很搶手國外有很多拍賣中心啊\n\n03:46.375 --> 04:15.455\n蘇比士或什麼的拍賣中心都很喜歡挖角故宮的這一類人才因為這一類人才對於這種有價值的文物是比較有鑑定能力的他們都很喜歡找故宮人才去那萬一你現在看起來雖然像是什麼器物啊侍衛看起來比較多但是一旦面臨到挖角或者是他有事情因任何的原因離職你就沒有人在做這件事情了這個其實我覺得\n\n04:16.495 --> 04:40.132\n是還蠻嚴重的事情我不知道說院長你的看法是怎樣先講資品的部分因為故宮的確就是有一千多件的資品那一千多件的資品的話其實以分類的類像來講是最少的雖然是所謂的滑鐵或是踏片比他多可是因為他放在書文的整體的類像裡面所以資品的部分的話因為\n\n04:42.074 --> 04:59.144\n國慶展示的機會也比較少然後他狀況也比較穩定那最近的話其實那個數量大部分很多都是難驗的難驗的資品的狀況入場的時候狀況都不錯所以並不是說每一件都要拿來修修補補沒有因為買的時候就已經挑過了\n\n05:00.423 --> 05:29.543\n欸我覺得也不是院長這樣講好像資品在故宮博物院連不重要一樣但是其實故宮南院最近才辦了一個亞洲資品展嘛對不對所以代表說資品對你們來說也是很重要的保障之一那我現在是對但是院長給我的感覺是說資品沒那麼嚴重啦也不容易壞啦然後我們量也不多啦所以助理研究員藝人還好啦\n\n05:30.504 --> 05:40.320\n你是這個意思嗎那你覺得一個人夠的嗎我當然希望有更多的人力你希望有更多人力可是你剛剛給我的感覺不是第一時間這樣子回答\n\n05:41.192 --> 06:04.025\n你如果我們今天把這個問題告訴你你如果認為這個能力不夠你第一時間回答應該是說你覺得我們應該要挖掘更多人才來讓我們的國保得到妥善的照顧但是你的回答不是啊你的回答是說跟委員報告資品其實在我們故宮裡面不算多啦所以你的回答的方式其實第一時間就凸顯你內心的真正想法\n\n06:04.565 --> 06:33.684\n就是對於資品不重視嗎所以一個人也還好但我覺得這樣的態度大家會很緊張因為國寶這些我們上個會期也跟院長就教過這個是多少人花盡心血甚至喪失生命把它運來的那我們都希望每一個國寶得到最妥善的照顧那故宮博物院就擔這個重責大任但是院長好像對於國寶的重視程度並沒有我們想像的這麼高\n\n06:34.725 --> 07:00.876\n那所以我再問你一次,現在職品研究員一人你覺得夠嗎?整體來講的話,我剛先講職品,整體來講的話故宮的修復人力其實是不足的。不足的,那請問一下你提出了什麼改善的計畫,要擴充人力?因為擴充人力的話,其實以故宮編制來講的話每年都減一兩個減一兩個,實際上要擴充人力不太容易。那你就覺得,不是啦,院長。\n\n07:02.116 --> 07:29.438\n我知道我們未來在南院的話就會有一個專業的修復工房那這個專業的修復工房的話未來的話就要銜接國內的譬如說南義大他有谷物修復研究所或是營科大他們這些同仁的話在學校的時候進入到一個階段就可以跟故宮建教合作用這樣的方式我覺得我是覺得反不濟急啦現在講的計畫都還很久遠請你先提一個方案出來好不好擴充這個人力啦\n\n07:30.461 --> 07:46.228\n因為擴充能力的話就要要求增加能力這個是沒有不太容易的那另外﹖所以就擺爛喔不是擺爛另外的話像比如說我在臺北館的時候我會擺沒有啦我不用扯這麼遠啦現在就你自己也認為能力不夠嘛那你要不要擴充嘛就這個問題那麼簡單嘛\n\n07:47.728 --> 08:08.667\n要還是不要的問題而已嘛要就提出方案出來嘛OK好我們想辦法來擴充然後我會去跟行政院爭取在我們的基建這樣才對嘛你為什麼剛剛回答的感覺都是你根本不重視這件事情不是不重視然後另外一件事情這個你就提方案出來還有一個就是我們上個會期一直要求你去做的我們一直希望說故宮博物院可以去\n\n08:11.309 --> 08:36.144\n這爭取自己的權益跟商譽啦那這個所謂的台北故宮交流中心這是一個冒用的一個抖音上面的帳號明明就不是故宮的授權單位但他卻可以在平台上面大剌剌的做授權的生意那這個上個會期故宮說要去提告啊就提告到哪裡去了就提告了他已經下架了沒有這昨天才查到的啊怎麼會下架\n\n08:38.500 --> 08:55.408\n因為我們大概起碼至少一季就上次去告一次可是你們就是隨隨便便嗎就是沒有認真去告嗎有叫警察積極去查嗎因為這個部分的話警察沒有辦法查我們透過大陸的律師現在的司法有那麼弱嗎\n\n09:01.111 --> 09:17.736\n決心的問題啦你最近一次處理這個事情是什麼時候七月份吧七月份現在幾月現在十月那你覺得三個月不問不問這樣對嗎沒有啦一季我們一季處理一次所以這個東西在網路上你們也不覺得很重要嗎\n\n09:19.135 --> 09:44.961\n請你捍衛你自己的商譽好嗎?如果有人打著故宮的名號在做授權生意你們卻覺得無所謂一記再處理一次就好了這就是回到剛剛的態度就是故宮對於國保不重視故宮對於商譽也不重視這個我自己認為說這個是院長最應該做的事情啦但是我覺得很遺憾就是你對於外界期待你的工作你並不是那麼的重視那如果沒關係下次我再繼續問你啦好謝謝\n\n09:48.835 --> 09:48.999\n好謝謝葉元\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.489,"end":2.612,"text":"好,接下來我們有請葉元之委員質詢。好,有請蕭院長。"},{"start":22.231,"end":49.337,"text":"院長早安這個故宮博物院的裡面的國寶大家都非常的重視也希望國寶可以有好的保存然後也希望國寶如果就是平常有什麼問題的話可以及時的修復而且呢可以定期的保養那在這個部分的話能力就非常的重要就是到底我們有沒有這方面的專業的人才到底有沒有足夠的能力可以去修復我現在先跟"},{"start":50.537,"end":73.43,"text":"院長討論一個就是有關於織品的部分先請教院長在我們故宮博物院裡面織品有沒有什麼比較有名的一些國寶你跟大家分享一下有沒有就你的了解對織品的國寶的話我不是很清楚因為有客司有織品的部分所以故宮博物院院長對於國寶不是很了解喔"},{"start":75.523,"end":76.924,"text":"我問說在故宮的典藏裡面有沒有資品比較有名的?"},{"start":95.175,"end":114.421,"text":"比如說故宮國寶比如說像翠白菜大家都講出來嘛清明上河圖是屬於書畫部分啊然後像肉形石等等等等我現在是問說有沒有您覺得很有名的織品有沒有我跟委員報告實話實說真的我你真的不知道對所以是因為沒有還是你不知道"},{"start":116.132,"end":129.499,"text":"之品裡面有沒有國寶我不曉得有應該是OK花同仁跟我講說有一間國寶就是老會及景冊花間形容就是就是有一件國寶"},{"start":131.201,"end":148.542,"text":"應該不只啦應該不只啦我們應該有好幾件應該是有好幾件那希望那為什麼我會特別講織品呢因為我們現在根據故宮的典藏文物織品的數量大概是有1626件基本上它也不算少它比玉器啊漆器"},{"start":149.503,"end":171.507,"text":"還有像雕刻啊這一類都多那當然是略少於陶瓷器跟銅器但他應該也算是非常多元多量的一個國寶之一但現在有一個非常嚴重的問題什麼問題呢這個這個表格啊院長看一下這是113年10月修護人員的配置我們會發現在這個書畫類的"},{"start":174.648,"end":190.706,"text":"人員總共編制是6位古籍檔案編制人員是5位器物的編制人員是4位但是織品類編制內只有一位編制外零換句話說這剛剛我講到這1000多件的織品"},{"start":191.846,"end":209.105,"text":"是誰來修復誰來保養就只有一位同仁只有一位同仁那這一位同仁他還沒有職務代理人如果他今天有事請假休假那或者是說萬一他離職那現在我們就沒有人負責織品了"},{"start":210.968,"end":225.022,"text":"我個人覺得是一件算是嚴重的事情而且我不知道院長你知不知道其實故宮的像這種修復人員不管你是修復書畫器物啊或者是哪一類的人員都很搶手國外有很多拍賣中心啊"},{"start":226.375,"end":255.455,"text":"蘇比士或什麼的拍賣中心都很喜歡挖角故宮的這一類人才因為這一類人才對於這種有價值的文物是比較有鑑定能力的他們都很喜歡找故宮人才去那萬一你現在看起來雖然像是什麼器物啊侍衛看起來比較多但是一旦面臨到挖角或者是他有事情因任何的原因離職你就沒有人在做這件事情了這個其實我覺得"},{"start":256.495,"end":280.132,"text":"是還蠻嚴重的事情我不知道說院長你的看法是怎樣先講資品的部分因為故宮的確就是有一千多件的資品那一千多件的資品的話其實以分類的類像來講是最少的雖然是所謂的滑鐵或是踏片比他多可是因為他放在書文的整體的類像裡面所以資品的部分的話因為"},{"start":282.074,"end":299.144,"text":"國慶展示的機會也比較少然後他狀況也比較穩定那最近的話其實那個數量大部分很多都是難驗的難驗的資品的狀況入場的時候狀況都不錯所以並不是說每一件都要拿來修修補補沒有因為買的時候就已經挑過了"},{"start":300.423,"end":329.543,"text":"欸我覺得也不是院長這樣講好像資品在故宮博物院連不重要一樣但是其實故宮南院最近才辦了一個亞洲資品展嘛對不對所以代表說資品對你們來說也是很重要的保障之一那我現在是對但是院長給我的感覺是說資品沒那麼嚴重啦也不容易壞啦然後我們量也不多啦所以助理研究員藝人還好啦"},{"start":330.504,"end":340.32,"text":"你是這個意思嗎那你覺得一個人夠的嗎我當然希望有更多的人力你希望有更多人力可是你剛剛給我的感覺不是第一時間這樣子回答"},{"start":341.192,"end":364.025,"text":"你如果我們今天把這個問題告訴你你如果認為這個能力不夠你第一時間回答應該是說你覺得我們應該要挖掘更多人才來讓我們的國保得到妥善的照顧但是你的回答不是啊你的回答是說跟委員報告資品其實在我們故宮裡面不算多啦所以你的回答的方式其實第一時間就凸顯你內心的真正想法"},{"start":364.565,"end":393.684,"text":"就是對於資品不重視嗎所以一個人也還好但我覺得這樣的態度大家會很緊張因為國寶這些我們上個會期也跟院長就教過這個是多少人花盡心血甚至喪失生命把它運來的那我們都希望每一個國寶得到最妥善的照顧那故宮博物院就擔這個重責大任但是院長好像對於國寶的重視程度並沒有我們想像的這麼高"},{"start":394.725,"end":420.876,"text":"那所以我再問你一次,現在職品研究員一人你覺得夠嗎?整體來講的話,我剛先講職品,整體來講的話故宮的修復人力其實是不足的。不足的,那請問一下你提出了什麼改善的計畫,要擴充人力?因為擴充人力的話,其實以故宮編制來講的話每年都減一兩個減一兩個,實際上要擴充人力不太容易。那你就覺得,不是啦,院長。"},{"start":422.116,"end":449.438,"text":"我知道我們未來在南院的話就會有一個專業的修復工房那這個專業的修復工房的話未來的話就要銜接國內的譬如說南義大他有谷物修復研究所或是營科大他們這些同仁的話在學校的時候進入到一個階段就可以跟故宮建教合作用這樣的方式我覺得我是覺得反不濟急啦現在講的計畫都還很久遠請你先提一個方案出來好不好擴充這個人力啦"},{"start":450.461,"end":466.228,"text":"因為擴充能力的話就要要求增加能力這個是沒有不太容易的那另外﹖所以就擺爛喔不是擺爛另外的話像比如說我在臺北館的時候我會擺沒有啦我不用扯這麼遠啦現在就你自己也認為能力不夠嘛那你要不要擴充嘛就這個問題那麼簡單嘛"},{"start":467.728,"end":488.667,"text":"要還是不要的問題而已嘛要就提出方案出來嘛OK好我們想辦法來擴充然後我會去跟行政院爭取在我們的基建這樣才對嘛你為什麼剛剛回答的感覺都是你根本不重視這件事情不是不重視然後另外一件事情這個你就提方案出來還有一個就是我們上個會期一直要求你去做的我們一直希望說故宮博物院可以去"},{"start":491.309,"end":516.144,"text":"這爭取自己的權益跟商譽啦那這個所謂的台北故宮交流中心這是一個冒用的一個抖音上面的帳號明明就不是故宮的授權單位但他卻可以在平台上面大剌剌的做授權的生意那這個上個會期故宮說要去提告啊就提告到哪裡去了就提告了他已經下架了沒有這昨天才查到的啊怎麼會下架"},{"start":518.5,"end":535.408,"text":"因為我們大概起碼至少一季就上次去告一次可是你們就是隨隨便便嗎就是沒有認真去告嗎有叫警察積極去查嗎因為這個部分的話警察沒有辦法查我們透過大陸的律師現在的司法有那麼弱嗎"},{"start":541.111,"end":557.736,"text":"決心的問題啦你最近一次處理這個事情是什麼時候七月份吧七月份現在幾月現在十月那你覺得三個月不問不問這樣對嗎沒有啦一季我們一季處理一次所以這個東西在網路上你們也不覺得很重要嗎"},{"start":559.135,"end":584.961,"text":"請你捍衛你自己的商譽好嗎?如果有人打著故宮的名號在做授權生意你們卻覺得無所謂一記再處理一次就好了這就是回到剛剛的態度就是故宮對於國保不重視故宮對於商譽也不重視這個我自己認為說這個是院長最應該做的事情啦但是我覺得很遺憾就是你對於外界期待你的工作你並不是那麼的重視那如果沒關係下次我再繼續問你啦好謝謝"},{"start":588.835,"end":588.999,"text":"好謝謝葉元"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":677,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（11時26分）主席您好，請故宮博物院院長。"],["主席：有請蕭院長。"],["蕭院長宗煌：葉委員早。"],["葉委員元之：院長早安。故宮博物院裡面的國寶，大家都非常地重視，希望國寶可以有好的保存，也希望國寶有什麼問題的話，都可以及時地修復，而且可以定期地保養，在這個部分，人力就非常重要，到底我們有沒有這方面的專業人才和足夠的人力去修復？","我先跟院長討論織品這個部分，先請教院長，在故宮博物院裡面，織品有沒有比較有名的國寶，請你跟大家分享一下，有沒有？就你的瞭解。"],["蕭院長宗煌：對織品的國寶我不是很清楚，因為織品的部分有緙絲……"],["葉委員元之：所以故宮博物院院長對國寶不是很瞭解？"],["蕭院長宗煌：不是，因為織品的部分，北院比較少，南院比較多，的確，織品裡面有哪些是國寶我比較不清楚。"],["葉委員元之：不是，我是問，在故宮的典藏裡面，有沒有什麼織品比較有名？譬如故宮的國寶翠玉白菜大家都講得出來，清明上河圖是屬於書畫類，然後像肉形石等等，我現在問的是，有沒有你覺得很有名的織品？有沒有？"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，實話實說真的……"],["葉委員元之：你真的不知道？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對。"],["葉委員元之：是因為沒有，還是你不知道？"],["蕭院長宗煌：織品裡面有沒有國寶，我不曉得。"],["葉委員元之：有啊！應該是……"],["蕭院長宗煌：OK，同仁跟我講，織品有一件國寶，就是「鏤繪集錦冊花間行龍」。"],["葉委員元之：應該不止，我們應該有好幾件。為什麼我會特別講織品呢？因為根據故宮的典藏文物，織品的數量大概是1,626件，基本上不算少，比玉器、漆器和雕刻這類都多，當然，它略少於陶瓷器跟銅器，但是應該也算是非常多量的國寶之一。現在有一個非常嚴重的問題，什麼問題呢？這個表格請院長看一下，這是113年10月修復人員的配置，我們可以發現，書畫類的人員編制是6位；古籍檔案的編制人員是5位；器物的編制人員是4位；但是織品類編制內的人員只有1位，編制外是0位。換句話說，剛剛我講到這一千多件的織品是誰來修復和保養？就只有1位同仁，這位同仁還沒有職務代理人，如果他今天有事請假、休假，或是萬一他離職，現在就沒有人負責織品，我個人覺得這算是一件很嚴重的事情，而且我不知道院長知不知道，其實故宮的修復人員，不管是修復書畫、器物或是哪一類，其實都很搶手，國外有很多拍賣中心，像蘇富比或是什麼拍賣中心，都很喜歡挖角故宮這一類的人才，因為這些人才對於這些有價值的文物是有鑑定能力的，所以他們都很喜歡找故宮的人才。雖然現在看起來，像器物有4位比較多，但是一旦面臨挖角、有事情或是因任何事情離職，就沒有人可以做這件事情，我覺得這事情其實還滿嚴重的，我不知道院長你的看法是怎樣？"],["蕭院長宗煌：先講織品的部分，的確，故宮有一千多件的織品，這一千多件的織品以分類的類項來講是最少的，雖然畫帖或是拓片比它多，可是因為它放在書文這個類項裡面，所以織品的部分，因為過去展示的機會也比較少，狀況也比較穩定，其實那個數量很多都是南院的，南院的織品入場時狀況都不錯，所以並不是每一件都要拿來修修補補，因為買的時候就已經挑過了。"],["葉委員元之：我覺得也不是像院長講的，您這樣講，好像織品在故宮博物院裡面不重要一樣。"],["蕭院長宗煌：不是不重要，只是整個比例上來講……"],["葉委員元之：其實故宮南院最近才舉辦過「亞洲織品展」，對不對？這代表織品對你們來說也是很重要的寶藏之一。"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，那個是新購的，新購的狀況比較好。"],["葉委員元之：對，但是院長給我的感覺就是織品沒有那麼嚴重，不容易壞，數量也不多，所以助理研究員1人還好，你是這個意思嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：報告委員，不是這樣，沒有，因為整個……"],["葉委員元之：那你覺得1個人夠嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我當然是希望有更多的人力。"],["葉委員元之：你希望有更多的人力，可是你剛剛第一時間不是這樣回答，今天我們把這個問題告訴你，如果你認為人力不夠，你第一時間的回答應該是你覺得應該要挖掘更多的人才，讓我們的國寶得到妥善的照顧，但是你的回答不是啊！你的回答是說：「跟委員報告，其實織品在故宮裡面不算多」，所以你第一時間回答的方式就凸顯你內心真正的想法，就是對織品不重視，所以1個人也還好……"],["蕭院長宗煌：也不是這樣子。"],["葉委員元之：我覺得這樣的態度會讓大家很緊張，因為上個會期我們就曾就教過院長，這個國寶是多少人花盡心血、甚至是喪失生命把它運來的，我們希望每一個國寶得到最妥善的照顧，故宮博物館承擔這個重責大任，但是院長好像對於國寶的重視程度並沒有我們想像的這麼高，所以我再問你一次，現在織品研究員1人，你覺得夠嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我剛剛先講織品，整體來講，故宮的修復人力其實是不足的。"],["葉委員元之：不足的，那請問你提出了什麼樣的改善計畫要來擴充人力？"],["蕭院長宗煌：其實以故宮的編制來講，每年都要減一、二人，實際上要擴充人力不太容易。"],["葉委員元之：不是啦！院長……"],["蕭院長宗煌：我知道，未來南院會有一個專業的修復工坊，未來這個專業的修復工坊會銜接國內譬如南藝大的古物修復研究所或是雲科大，這些同仁在學校進入一個階段後就可以跟故宮建教合作，用這樣的方式來讓他們的專業……"],["葉委員元之：我是覺得這樣緩不濟急，你現在講的這個計畫還很久遠，請你先提出一個方案來擴充人力，好不好？"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為擴充人力就要增加人力，這個不太容易。"],["葉委員元之：所以就擺爛？"],["蕭院長宗煌：不是擺爛。另外，譬如我在臺博館的時候，我會委託外面的修復……"],["葉委員元之：沒有，不用扯這麼遠，你自己也認為人力不夠，你要不要擴充嘛？就這個問題，那麼簡單，這是要不要的問題，要就提出方案。"],["蕭院長宗煌：OK，我們想辦法來擴充，然後我會跟行政院爭取在我們的基金預算裡面……"],["葉委員元之：這樣才對嘛！你剛剛回答給我的感覺就是你根本不重視這件事情。"],["蕭院長宗煌：不是不重視。"],["葉委員元之：好，這個你就提出方案。另外一件事情，上個會期我們就一直要求你要去做，我們一直都希望故宮博物館可以爭取自己的權益跟商譽，所謂的「台北故宮交流中心」是抖音上冒用故宮的帳號，它明明不是故宮的授權單位，但是卻在平臺上大剌剌地做授權的生意，上個會期故宮說要提告，結果你們告到哪裡去了？"],["蕭院長宗煌：有提告了，它已經下架了。"],["葉委員元之：沒有，這是昨天才查到了，怎麼會下架？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我們起碼、至少一季就上去告一次，可是它下架後又上架。"],["葉委員元之：你們就是隨隨便便，沒有認真去告，你們有叫警察積極去查嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為這部分警察沒辦法查，我們是透過大陸的律師向大陸的法院遞案。"],["葉委員元之：怎麼沒辦法查？現在的司法有那麼弱嗎？這是決心的問題。你們最近一次處理這件事情是什麼時候？"],["蕭院長宗煌：7月份吧！"],["葉委員元之：現在幾月？"],["蕭院長宗煌：現在10月。"],["葉委員元之：那你覺得3個月都不聞不問，這樣對嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：沒有啦！我們一季都會……"],["葉委員元之：一季處理一次，所以這個東西在網路上你們也不覺得很重要？請你捍衛自己的商譽，好嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：也不是，因為每天跟它講也沒有用。"],["葉委員元之：如果有人打著故宮的名號在做授權的生意，你們卻覺得無所謂，一季處理一次就好了，這就回到剛剛的態度問題，就是故宮對於國寶不重視，故宮對於商譽也不重視……"],["蕭院長宗煌：我們每天都非常重視這件事情。"],["葉委員元之：我認為這是院長最應該做的事情，但是我覺得很遺憾的是，你對於外界期待你的工作，你並不是那麼地重視。沒關係，下次我再繼續問你，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葉元之委員。","現在現場還有陳冠廷委員，請陳冠廷委員質詢，時間4分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":428,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-5","speakers":["萬美玲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","林倩綺","陳培瑜","林宜瑾","陳秀寳","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","張雅琳","吳沛憶","范雲","羅廷瑋","葉元之","陳冠廷","吳春城"],"page_start":383,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1138901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國立故宮博物院院長蕭宗煌列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138901_00006"}}}