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00:00:14,714\n請邱志偉召委執行。」謝謝主席我一定遵守時間一定是6加2謝謝主席請國安會的劉主委\n\n2\n00:00:18,993 --> 00:00:25,576\n所以我們看第一個數據第一個數據是你們發布是針對2023的總生育率加上0.865那僅高於韓國0.72那針對2023對不對是的然後這個我們看一下美國的數據美國的數據你看下一張美國的數據台灣是已經這個低於韓國生育率變成全世界倒數第一名所有的國家裡面我們排227\n\n3\n00:00:49,096 --> 00:01:14,775\n所以再回到上一頁你現在所提的五面向對策目前正在實施你明年二月又要提解放如果這些現在的五面向對策有效的話它不會變成那麼一個嚴峻的一個態勢就是說我們是227個國家裡面我們生育率是倒數第一是生育率全世界最低的國家這是不是一個不可逆的趨勢\n\n4\n00:01:17,591 --> 00:01:22,255\n目前來看,其實要可逆是有點難度了。我們希望先守住現在。」\n\n5\n00:01:32,745 --> 00:01:59,421\n我跟委員報告一下我們現在最大的困難其實還是在大家的結婚慾望比較低我們必須先解掉這一段否則會很困難為什麼結婚慾望比較低呢?就是因為低薪嘛你低薪代表說你可支配所得這個減少你就不敢去養兒育女嘛包括物價的膨脹生活所得的生活支出大幅提高包括物價的上漲包括高房價\n\n6\n00:02:00,740 --> 00:02:01,661\n主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n7\n00:02:16,826 --> 00:02:38,273\n所以我們一直在探討怎麼樣讓0到6歲的這個國家一起養的政策更能夠吻合市場的需求當然這需要大量的預算所以我們還是就像我之前報告我們需要找裁員你知道嗎日本曾經是最早進入超高齡這個社會的國家但他們已經慢慢的可逆了\n\n8\n00:02:39,013 --> 00:03:07,860\n他們生意力有提高了嗎?他們本來可逆是回到了1.4但是又降回到1.2疫情的期間但最起碼他們已經控制這個惡化的狀況嘛所以他們內閣裡面有個少子化部嘛有個少子化大臣對他有一個大臣大臣是內閣的閣員閣員相當於一個部長部長有實權有預算有人力去執行少子化的相關的對策那我們目前的狀況是由政委\n\n9\n00:03:09,082 --> 00:03:24,061\n政委是協調各部會的執行狀況做政策的規劃的協調政委也不需要來立法院備詢不管是院會也是委員會他的執行狀況如何我們沒有辦法透過國會的監督\n\n10\n00:03:25,874 --> 00:03:40,337\n所以為什麼你必須要去參考其他國家是不是要成立一個專責的少子化對策部或少子化對策委員會有一個專任的部長來接受國會的監督、編列預算、充實能力\n\n11\n00:03:42,140 --> 00:04:05,545\n對政下要把青年的地心問題解決可自備所得提高降低房價降低這個生活開支他們才有這個意願去生才有能力去養所以我覺得你現在明年二月你還要邀集各部會明年二月提解方這五面像是不是正在做的事情\n\n12\n00:04:07,008 --> 00:04:26,140\n都在做事情嘛。」好那我想這個您的建議我也是會會把這個跟院長報告看看他對這件事有什麼樣的裁釋不是你是幕僚機關你應該提出解方不是去問院長因為院長一定會回問你你的看法是怎麼樣\n\n13\n00:04:27,367 --> 00:04:49,373\n你不能去問院長你是幕僚的首長沒錯啊所以這部分應該你要提出解方所以我剛剛現在對政效要問題在哪裡針對問題解決問題我們再看一下這女性就業的狀況我們20到24歲的女性勞動參與率比較低的原因是因為她就學年數的關係大家念研究所25歲到29歲女性勞參與率是這個大概是鄰國之冠到90%\n\n14\n00:04:56,209 --> 00:05:22,076\n但是另外呢到40歲以上因為結婚的關係因為生育的關係他就沒有辦法再投入返回職場不像其他的國家日本、南韓跟美國他的重返職場的比例比台灣高太多了你看台灣到5.365歲以上然後50到都比其他每一個年齡世代都比韓國、日本還低\n\n15\n00:05:25,379 --> 00:05:29,627\n所以為什麼女性沒有辦法在這個結婚育兒之後重返職場\n\n16\n00:05:31,196 --> 00:05:52,233\n這個要去探討原因有這個這兩個問題其實我們有兩個比例都比較低一個是中高齡的就業比例比較低第一個婦女的這個勞參率比較低這個我們都有請跟勞動部討論勞動部都有一些政策出來你講到這個引髮族或者是退休的狀況我們看最後一個表勞動參與率的年齡比\n\n17\n00:05:56,021 --> 00:06:15,120\n你看一下我們這個25歲到49歲年齡有八成的勞動參與率跟國際相比毫不遜色但是50歲以上呢所謂壯世代我們今天討論壯世代50到64歲這個基本上體育上都沒有問題他的勞參與率是階梯式的雪崩式的下降\n\n18\n00:06:16,690 --> 00:06:26,175\n你要怎麼去解決這個問題?怎辦二度就業者、銀髮族能夠同心在導入職場?這需要政策去引導\n\n19\n00:06:27,707 --> 00:06:45,907\n對這個部分也許我不知道勞動部是不是可以來說明一下因為勞動部針對婦女跟中高齡都有一個相當的政策我這沒有那麼多時間我只是把這個問題提出來我希望你做一個協調單位你要跟院長講你也要跟這個陳時中政委講這部分非常重要因為這個講到這個缺工的問題\n\n20\n00:06:51,240 --> 00:07:15,057\n人力航空部我們今年4月我們缺工來到110萬左右我們國人到海外去工作人數將近50萬中國最多美國居次然後去東南亞鄰國包括日本台灣工作也多包括南韓也吸引台灣留學生挖走了我們很多的白領跟知識精英\n\n21\n00:07:16,243 --> 00:07:44,322\n那我們的相對的政策要吸引其他國家的高階人才、白領人才到台灣來反而這個效果有限這問題到底是出現在哪裡呢?你的目標是2030年要40萬人才攬才目標捏40萬捏那目前的結果是怎麼樣?2024還有6年你要達40萬攬才的目標捏到底能不能達成呢?\n\n22\n00:07:46,516 --> 00:08:13,413\n目前至少我們現在是有訂定的相當的策略啦我們也分配到不同的任務裡面去那以目前來看的話我們最大的來源還是在這個喬外森在這邊念學的這是最大來源那第二個部分是我跟您報告我們現在開始進行到海外攬才的部分這你要40萬目標我覺得這個很拚另外高階專業人才你門檻要16萬\n\n23\n00:08:15,543 --> 00:08:30,213\n你要配合他久居的福利的這些資源也沒有配套措施所以我覺得你要模仿或者學其他國家的做法把司法門檻能夠降低我們現在已經開始在調整了我有時間再跟你請教因為這個問題很重要我再給我10分鐘我也講不完但是我要遵守時間的規律這個招委要以身作則\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n349\t14714\t請邱志偉召委執行。」謝謝主席我一定遵守時間一定是6加2謝謝主席請國安會的劉主委\n18993\t25576\t所以我們看第一個數據第一個數據是你們發布是針對2023的總生育率加上0.865那僅高於韓國0.72那針對2023對不對是的然後這個我們看一下美國的數據美國的數據你看下一張美國的數據台灣是已經這個低於韓國生育率變成全世界倒數第一名所有的國家裡面我們排227\n49096\t74775\t所以再回到上一頁你現在所提的五面向對策目前正在實施你明年二月又要提解放如果這些現在的五面向對策有效的話它不會變成那麼一個嚴峻的一個態勢就是說我們是227個國家裡面我們生育率是倒數第一是生育率全世界最低的國家這是不是一個不可逆的趨勢\n77591\t82255\t目前來看,其實要可逆是有點難度了。我們希望先守住現在。」\n92745\t119421\t我跟委員報告一下我們現在最大的困難其實還是在大家的結婚慾望比較低我們必須先解掉這一段否則會很困難為什麼結婚慾望比較低呢?就是因為低薪嘛你低薪代表說你可支配所得這個減少你就不敢去養兒育女嘛包括物價的膨脹生活所得的生活支出大幅提高包括物價的上漲包括高房價\n120740\t121661\t主任委員會主任委員會主任\n136826\t158273\t所以我們一直在探討怎麼樣讓0到6歲的這個國家一起養的政策更能夠吻合市場的需求當然這需要大量的預算所以我們還是就像我之前報告我們需要找裁員你知道嗎日本曾經是最早進入超高齡這個社會的國家但他們已經慢慢的可逆了\n159013\t187860\t他們生意力有提高了嗎?他們本來可逆是回到了1.4但是又降回到1.2疫情的期間但最起碼他們已經控制這個惡化的狀況嘛所以他們內閣裡面有個少子化部嘛有個少子化大臣對他有一個大臣大臣是內閣的閣員閣員相當於一個部長部長有實權有預算有人力去執行少子化的相關的對策那我們目前的狀況是由政委\n189082\t204061\t政委是協調各部會的執行狀況做政策的規劃的協調政委也不需要來立法院備詢不管是院會也是委員會他的執行狀況如何我們沒有辦法透過國會的監督\n205874\t220337\t所以為什麼你必須要去參考其他國家是不是要成立一個專責的少子化對策部或少子化對策委員會有一個專任的部長來接受國會的監督、編列預算、充實能力\n222140\t245545\t對政下要把青年的地心問題解決可自備所得提高降低房價降低這個生活開支他們才有這個意願去生才有能力去養所以我覺得你現在明年二月你還要邀集各部會明年二月提解方這五面像是不是正在做的事情\n247008\t266140\t都在做事情嘛。」好那我想這個您的建議我也是會會把這個跟院長報告看看他對這件事有什麼樣的裁釋不是你是幕僚機關你應該提出解方不是去問院長因為院長一定會回問你你的看法是怎麼樣\n267367\t289373\t你不能去問院長你是幕僚的首長沒錯啊所以這部分應該你要提出解方所以我剛剛現在對政效要問題在哪裡針對問題解決問題我們再看一下這女性就業的狀況我們20到24歲的女性勞動參與率比較低的原因是因為她就學年數的關係大家念研究所25歲到29歲女性勞參與率是這個大概是鄰國之冠到90%\n296209\t322076\t但是另外呢到40歲以上因為結婚的關係因為生育的關係他就沒有辦法再投入返回職場不像其他的國家日本、南韓跟美國他的重返職場的比例比台灣高太多了你看台灣到5.365歲以上然後50到都比其他每一個年齡世代都比韓國、日本還低\n325379\t329627\t所以為什麼女性沒有辦法在這個結婚育兒之後重返職場\n331196\t352233\t這個要去探討原因有這個這兩個問題其實我們有兩個比例都比較低一個是中高齡的就業比例比較低第一個婦女的這個勞參率比較低這個我們都有請跟勞動部討論勞動部都有一些政策出來你講到這個引髮族或者是退休的狀況我們看最後一個表勞動參與率的年齡比\n356021\t375120\t你看一下我們這個25歲到49歲年齡有八成的勞動參與率跟國際相比毫不遜色但是50歲以上呢所謂壯世代我們今天討論壯世代50到64歲這個基本上體育上都沒有問題他的勞參與率是階梯式的雪崩式的下降\n376690\t386175\t你要怎麼去解決這個問題?怎辦二度就業者、銀髮族能夠同心在導入職場?這需要政策去引導\n387707\t405907\t對這個部分也許我不知道勞動部是不是可以來說明一下因為勞動部針對婦女跟中高齡都有一個相當的政策我這沒有那麼多時間我只是把這個問題提出來我希望你做一個協調單位你要跟院長講你也要跟這個陳時中政委講這部分非常重要因為這個講到這個缺工的問題\n411240\t435057\t人力航空部我們今年4月我們缺工來到110萬左右我們國人到海外去工作人數將近50萬中國最多美國居次然後去東南亞鄰國包括日本台灣工作也多包括南韓也吸引台灣留學生挖走了我們很多的白領跟知識精英\n436243\t464322\t那我們的相對的政策要吸引其他國家的高階人才、白領人才到台灣來反而這個效果有限這問題到底是出現在哪裡呢?你的目標是2030年要40萬人才攬才目標捏40萬捏那目前的結果是怎麼樣?2024還有6年你要達40萬攬才的目標捏到底能不能達成呢?\n466516\t493413\t目前至少我們現在是有訂定的相當的策略啦我們也分配到不同的任務裡面去那以目前來看的話我們最大的來源還是在這個喬外森在這邊念學的這是最大來源那第二個部分是我跟您報告我們現在開始進行到海外攬才的部分這你要40萬目標我覺得這個很拚另外高階專業人才你門檻要16萬\n495543\t510213\t你要配合他久居的福利的這些資源也沒有配套措施所以我覺得你要模仿或者學其他國家的做法把司法門檻能夠降低我們現在已經開始在調整了我有時間再跟你請教因為這個問題很重要我再給我10分鐘我也講不完但是我要遵守時間的規律這個招委要以身作則\n","txt":"請邱志偉召委執行。」謝謝主席我一定遵守時間一定是6加2謝謝主席請國安會的劉主委\n所以我們看第一個數據第一個數據是你們發布是針對2023的總生育率加上0.865那僅高於韓國0.72那針對2023對不對是的然後這個我們看一下美國的數據美國的數據你看下一張美國的數據台灣是已經這個低於韓國生育率變成全世界倒數第一名所有的國家裡面我們排227\n所以再回到上一頁你現在所提的五面向對策目前正在實施你明年二月又要提解放如果這些現在的五面向對策有效的話它不會變成那麼一個嚴峻的一個態勢就是說我們是227個國家裡面我們生育率是倒數第一是生育率全世界最低的國家這是不是一個不可逆的趨勢\n目前來看,其實要可逆是有點難度了。我們希望先守住現在。」\n我跟委員報告一下我們現在最大的困難其實還是在大家的結婚慾望比較低我們必須先解掉這一段否則會很困難為什麼結婚慾望比較低呢?就是因為低薪嘛你低薪代表說你可支配所得這個減少你就不敢去養兒育女嘛包括物價的膨脹生活所得的生活支出大幅提高包括物價的上漲包括高房價\n主任委員會主任委員會主任\n所以我們一直在探討怎麼樣讓0到6歲的這個國家一起養的政策更能夠吻合市場的需求當然這需要大量的預算所以我們還是就像我之前報告我們需要找裁員你知道嗎日本曾經是最早進入超高齡這個社會的國家但他們已經慢慢的可逆了\n他們生意力有提高了嗎?他們本來可逆是回到了1.4但是又降回到1.2疫情的期間但最起碼他們已經控制這個惡化的狀況嘛所以他們內閣裡面有個少子化部嘛有個少子化大臣對他有一個大臣大臣是內閣的閣員閣員相當於一個部長部長有實權有預算有人力去執行少子化的相關的對策那我們目前的狀況是由政委\n政委是協調各部會的執行狀況做政策的規劃的協調政委也不需要來立法院備詢不管是院會也是委員會他的執行狀況如何我們沒有辦法透過國會的監督\n所以為什麼你必須要去參考其他國家是不是要成立一個專責的少子化對策部或少子化對策委員會有一個專任的部長來接受國會的監督、編列預算、充實能力\n對政下要把青年的地心問題解決可自備所得提高降低房價降低這個生活開支他們才有這個意願去生才有能力去養所以我覺得你現在明年二月你還要邀集各部會明年二月提解方這五面像是不是正在做的事情\n都在做事情嘛。」好那我想這個您的建議我也是會會把這個跟院長報告看看他對這件事有什麼樣的裁釋不是你是幕僚機關你應該提出解方不是去問院長因為院長一定會回問你你的看法是怎麼樣\n你不能去問院長你是幕僚的首長沒錯啊所以這部分應該你要提出解方所以我剛剛現在對政效要問題在哪裡針對問題解決問題我們再看一下這女性就業的狀況我們20到24歲的女性勞動參與率比較低的原因是因為她就學年數的關係大家念研究所25歲到29歲女性勞參與率是這個大概是鄰國之冠到90%\n但是另外呢到40歲以上因為結婚的關係因為生育的關係他就沒有辦法再投入返回職場不像其他的國家日本、南韓跟美國他的重返職場的比例比台灣高太多了你看台灣到5.365歲以上然後50到都比其他每一個年齡世代都比韓國、日本還低\n所以為什麼女性沒有辦法在這個結婚育兒之後重返職場\n這個要去探討原因有這個這兩個問題其實我們有兩個比例都比較低一個是中高齡的就業比例比較低第一個婦女的這個勞參率比較低這個我們都有請跟勞動部討論勞動部都有一些政策出來你講到這個引髮族或者是退休的狀況我們看最後一個表勞動參與率的年齡比\n你看一下我們這個25歲到49歲年齡有八成的勞動參與率跟國際相比毫不遜色但是50歲以上呢所謂壯世代我們今天討論壯世代50到64歲這個基本上體育上都沒有問題他的勞參與率是階梯式的雪崩式的下降\n你要怎麼去解決這個問題?怎辦二度就業者、銀髮族能夠同心在導入職場?這需要政策去引導\n對這個部分也許我不知道勞動部是不是可以來說明一下因為勞動部針對婦女跟中高齡都有一個相當的政策我這沒有那麼多時間我只是把這個問題提出來我希望你做一個協調單位你要跟院長講你也要跟這個陳時中政委講這部分非常重要因為這個講到這個缺工的問題\n人力航空部我們今年4月我們缺工來到110萬左右我們國人到海外去工作人數將近50萬中國最多美國居次然後去東南亞鄰國包括日本台灣工作也多包括南韓也吸引台灣留學生挖走了我們很多的白領跟知識精英\n那我們的相對的政策要吸引其他國家的高階人才、白領人才到台灣來反而這個效果有限這問題到底是出現在哪裡呢?你的目標是2030年要40萬人才攬才目標捏40萬捏那目前的結果是怎麼樣?2024還有6年你要達40萬攬才的目標捏到底能不能達成呢?\n目前至少我們現在是有訂定的相當的策略啦我們也分配到不同的任務裡面去那以目前來看的話我們最大的來源還是在這個喬外森在這邊念學的這是最大來源那第二個部分是我跟您報告我們現在開始進行到海外攬才的部分這你要40萬目標我覺得這個很拚另外高階專業人才你門檻要16萬\n你要配合他久居的福利的這些資源也沒有配套措施所以我覺得你要模仿或者學其他國家的做法把司法門檻能夠降低我們現在已經開始在調整了我有時間再跟你請教因為這個問題很重要我再給我10分鐘我也講不完但是我要遵守時間的規律這個招委要以身作則\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.349 --> 00:14.714\n請邱志偉召委執行。」謝謝主席我一定遵守時間一定是6加2謝謝主席請國安會的劉主委\n\n00:18.993 --> 00:25.576\n所以我們看第一個數據第一個數據是你們發布是針對2023的總生育率加上0.865那僅高於韓國0.72那針對2023對不對是的然後這個我們看一下美國的數據美國的數據你看下一張美國的數據台灣是已經這個低於韓國生育率變成全世界倒數第一名所有的國家裡面我們排227\n\n00:49.096 --> 01:14.775\n所以再回到上一頁你現在所提的五面向對策目前正在實施你明年二月又要提解放如果這些現在的五面向對策有效的話它不會變成那麼一個嚴峻的一個態勢就是說我們是227個國家裡面我們生育率是倒數第一是生育率全世界最低的國家這是不是一個不可逆的趨勢\n\n01:17.591 --> 01:22.255\n目前來看,其實要可逆是有點難度了。我們希望先守住現在。」\n\n01:32.745 --> 01:59.421\n我跟委員報告一下我們現在最大的困難其實還是在大家的結婚慾望比較低我們必須先解掉這一段否則會很困難為什麼結婚慾望比較低呢?就是因為低薪嘛你低薪代表說你可支配所得這個減少你就不敢去養兒育女嘛包括物價的膨脹生活所得的生活支出大幅提高包括物價的上漲包括高房價\n\n02:00.740 --> 02:01.661\n主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n02:16.826 --> 02:38.273\n所以我們一直在探討怎麼樣讓0到6歲的這個國家一起養的政策更能夠吻合市場的需求當然這需要大量的預算所以我們還是就像我之前報告我們需要找裁員你知道嗎日本曾經是最早進入超高齡這個社會的國家但他們已經慢慢的可逆了\n\n02:39.013 --> 03:07.860\n他們生意力有提高了嗎?他們本來可逆是回到了1.4但是又降回到1.2疫情的期間但最起碼他們已經控制這個惡化的狀況嘛所以他們內閣裡面有個少子化部嘛有個少子化大臣對他有一個大臣大臣是內閣的閣員閣員相當於一個部長部長有實權有預算有人力去執行少子化的相關的對策那我們目前的狀況是由政委\n\n03:09.082 --> 03:24.061\n政委是協調各部會的執行狀況做政策的規劃的協調政委也不需要來立法院備詢不管是院會也是委員會他的執行狀況如何我們沒有辦法透過國會的監督\n\n03:25.874 --> 03:40.337\n所以為什麼你必須要去參考其他國家是不是要成立一個專責的少子化對策部或少子化對策委員會有一個專任的部長來接受國會的監督、編列預算、充實能力\n\n03:42.140 --> 04:05.545\n對政下要把青年的地心問題解決可自備所得提高降低房價降低這個生活開支他們才有這個意願去生才有能力去養所以我覺得你現在明年二月你還要邀集各部會明年二月提解方這五面像是不是正在做的事情\n\n04:07.008 --> 04:26.140\n都在做事情嘛。」好那我想這個您的建議我也是會會把這個跟院長報告看看他對這件事有什麼樣的裁釋不是你是幕僚機關你應該提出解方不是去問院長因為院長一定會回問你你的看法是怎麼樣\n\n04:27.367 --> 04:49.373\n你不能去問院長你是幕僚的首長沒錯啊所以這部分應該你要提出解方所以我剛剛現在對政效要問題在哪裡針對問題解決問題我們再看一下這女性就業的狀況我們20到24歲的女性勞動參與率比較低的原因是因為她就學年數的關係大家念研究所25歲到29歲女性勞參與率是這個大概是鄰國之冠到90%\n\n04:56.209 --> 05:22.076\n但是另外呢到40歲以上因為結婚的關係因為生育的關係他就沒有辦法再投入返回職場不像其他的國家日本、南韓跟美國他的重返職場的比例比台灣高太多了你看台灣到5.365歲以上然後50到都比其他每一個年齡世代都比韓國、日本還低\n\n05:25.379 --> 05:29.627\n所以為什麼女性沒有辦法在這個結婚育兒之後重返職場\n\n05:31.196 --> 05:52.233\n這個要去探討原因有這個這兩個問題其實我們有兩個比例都比較低一個是中高齡的就業比例比較低第一個婦女的這個勞參率比較低這個我們都有請跟勞動部討論勞動部都有一些政策出來你講到這個引髮族或者是退休的狀況我們看最後一個表勞動參與率的年齡比\n\n05:56.021 --> 06:15.120\n你看一下我們這個25歲到49歲年齡有八成的勞動參與率跟國際相比毫不遜色但是50歲以上呢所謂壯世代我們今天討論壯世代50到64歲這個基本上體育上都沒有問題他的勞參與率是階梯式的雪崩式的下降\n\n06:16.690 --> 06:26.175\n你要怎麼去解決這個問題?怎辦二度就業者、銀髮族能夠同心在導入職場?這需要政策去引導\n\n06:27.707 --> 06:45.907\n對這個部分也許我不知道勞動部是不是可以來說明一下因為勞動部針對婦女跟中高齡都有一個相當的政策我這沒有那麼多時間我只是把這個問題提出來我希望你做一個協調單位你要跟院長講你也要跟這個陳時中政委講這部分非常重要因為這個講到這個缺工的問題\n\n06:51.240 --> 07:15.057\n人力航空部我們今年4月我們缺工來到110萬左右我們國人到海外去工作人數將近50萬中國最多美國居次然後去東南亞鄰國包括日本台灣工作也多包括南韓也吸引台灣留學生挖走了我們很多的白領跟知識精英\n\n07:16.243 --> 07:44.322\n那我們的相對的政策要吸引其他國家的高階人才、白領人才到台灣來反而這個效果有限這問題到底是出現在哪裡呢?你的目標是2030年要40萬人才攬才目標捏40萬捏那目前的結果是怎麼樣?2024還有6年你要達40萬攬才的目標捏到底能不能達成呢?\n\n07:46.516 --> 08:13.413\n目前至少我們現在是有訂定的相當的策略啦我們也分配到不同的任務裡面去那以目前來看的話我們最大的來源還是在這個喬外森在這邊念學的這是最大來源那第二個部分是我跟您報告我們現在開始進行到海外攬才的部分這你要40萬目標我覺得這個很拚另外高階專業人才你門檻要16萬\n\n08:15.543 --> 08:30.213\n你要配合他久居的福利的這些資源也沒有配套措施所以我覺得你要模仿或者學其他國家的做法把司法門檻能夠降低我們現在已經開始在調整了我有時間再跟你請教因為這個問題很重要我再給我10分鐘我也講不完但是我要遵守時間的規律這個招委要以身作則\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.349,"end":14.714,"text":"請邱志偉召委執行。」謝謝主席我一定遵守時間一定是6加2謝謝主席請國安會的劉主委"},{"start":18.993,"end":25.576,"text":"所以我們看第一個數據第一個數據是你們發布是針對2023的總生育率加上0.865那僅高於韓國0.72那針對2023對不對是的然後這個我們看一下美國的數據美國的數據你看下一張美國的數據台灣是已經這個低於韓國生育率變成全世界倒數第一名所有的國家裡面我們排227"},{"start":49.096,"end":74.775,"text":"所以再回到上一頁你現在所提的五面向對策目前正在實施你明年二月又要提解放如果這些現在的五面向對策有效的話它不會變成那麼一個嚴峻的一個態勢就是說我們是227個國家裡面我們生育率是倒數第一是生育率全世界最低的國家這是不是一個不可逆的趨勢"},{"start":77.591,"end":82.255,"text":"目前來看,其實要可逆是有點難度了。我們希望先守住現在。」"},{"start":92.745,"end":119.421,"text":"我跟委員報告一下我們現在最大的困難其實還是在大家的結婚慾望比較低我們必須先解掉這一段否則會很困難為什麼結婚慾望比較低呢?就是因為低薪嘛你低薪代表說你可支配所得這個減少你就不敢去養兒育女嘛包括物價的膨脹生活所得的生活支出大幅提高包括物價的上漲包括高房價"},{"start":120.74,"end":121.661,"text":"主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":136.826,"end":158.273,"text":"所以我們一直在探討怎麼樣讓0到6歲的這個國家一起養的政策更能夠吻合市場的需求當然這需要大量的預算所以我們還是就像我之前報告我們需要找裁員你知道嗎日本曾經是最早進入超高齡這個社會的國家但他們已經慢慢的可逆了"},{"start":159.013,"end":187.86,"text":"他們生意力有提高了嗎?他們本來可逆是回到了1.4但是又降回到1.2疫情的期間但最起碼他們已經控制這個惡化的狀況嘛所以他們內閣裡面有個少子化部嘛有個少子化大臣對他有一個大臣大臣是內閣的閣員閣員相當於一個部長部長有實權有預算有人力去執行少子化的相關的對策那我們目前的狀況是由政委"},{"start":189.082,"end":204.061,"text":"政委是協調各部會的執行狀況做政策的規劃的協調政委也不需要來立法院備詢不管是院會也是委員會他的執行狀況如何我們沒有辦法透過國會的監督"},{"start":205.874,"end":220.337,"text":"所以為什麼你必須要去參考其他國家是不是要成立一個專責的少子化對策部或少子化對策委員會有一個專任的部長來接受國會的監督、編列預算、充實能力"},{"start":222.14,"end":245.545,"text":"對政下要把青年的地心問題解決可自備所得提高降低房價降低這個生活開支他們才有這個意願去生才有能力去養所以我覺得你現在明年二月你還要邀集各部會明年二月提解方這五面像是不是正在做的事情"},{"start":247.008,"end":266.14,"text":"都在做事情嘛。」好那我想這個您的建議我也是會會把這個跟院長報告看看他對這件事有什麼樣的裁釋不是你是幕僚機關你應該提出解方不是去問院長因為院長一定會回問你你的看法是怎麼樣"},{"start":267.367,"end":289.373,"text":"你不能去問院長你是幕僚的首長沒錯啊所以這部分應該你要提出解方所以我剛剛現在對政效要問題在哪裡針對問題解決問題我們再看一下這女性就業的狀況我們20到24歲的女性勞動參與率比較低的原因是因為她就學年數的關係大家念研究所25歲到29歲女性勞參與率是這個大概是鄰國之冠到90%"},{"start":296.209,"end":322.076,"text":"但是另外呢到40歲以上因為結婚的關係因為生育的關係他就沒有辦法再投入返回職場不像其他的國家日本、南韓跟美國他的重返職場的比例比台灣高太多了你看台灣到5.365歲以上然後50到都比其他每一個年齡世代都比韓國、日本還低"},{"start":325.379,"end":329.627,"text":"所以為什麼女性沒有辦法在這個結婚育兒之後重返職場"},{"start":331.196,"end":352.233,"text":"這個要去探討原因有這個這兩個問題其實我們有兩個比例都比較低一個是中高齡的就業比例比較低第一個婦女的這個勞參率比較低這個我們都有請跟勞動部討論勞動部都有一些政策出來你講到這個引髮族或者是退休的狀況我們看最後一個表勞動參與率的年齡比"},{"start":356.021,"end":375.12,"text":"你看一下我們這個25歲到49歲年齡有八成的勞動參與率跟國際相比毫不遜色但是50歲以上呢所謂壯世代我們今天討論壯世代50到64歲這個基本上體育上都沒有問題他的勞參與率是階梯式的雪崩式的下降"},{"start":376.69,"end":386.175,"text":"你要怎麼去解決這個問題?怎辦二度就業者、銀髮族能夠同心在導入職場?這需要政策去引導"},{"start":387.707,"end":405.907,"text":"對這個部分也許我不知道勞動部是不是可以來說明一下因為勞動部針對婦女跟中高齡都有一個相當的政策我這沒有那麼多時間我只是把這個問題提出來我希望你做一個協調單位你要跟院長講你也要跟這個陳時中政委講這部分非常重要因為這個講到這個缺工的問題"},{"start":411.24,"end":435.057,"text":"人力航空部我們今年4月我們缺工來到110萬左右我們國人到海外去工作人數將近50萬中國最多美國居次然後去東南亞鄰國包括日本台灣工作也多包括南韓也吸引台灣留學生挖走了我們很多的白領跟知識精英"},{"start":436.243,"end":464.322,"text":"那我們的相對的政策要吸引其他國家的高階人才、白領人才到台灣來反而這個效果有限這問題到底是出現在哪裡呢?你的目標是2030年要40萬人才攬才目標捏40萬捏那目前的結果是怎麼樣?2024還有6年你要達40萬攬才的目標捏到底能不能達成呢?"},{"start":466.516,"end":493.413,"text":"目前至少我們現在是有訂定的相當的策略啦我們也分配到不同的任務裡面去那以目前來看的話我們最大的來源還是在這個喬外森在這邊念學的這是最大來源那第二個部分是我跟您報告我們現在開始進行到海外攬才的部分這你要40萬目標我覺得這個很拚另外高階專業人才你門檻要16萬"},{"start":495.543,"end":510.213,"text":"你要配合他久居的福利的這些資源也沒有配套措施所以我覺得你要模仿或者學其他國家的做法把司法門檻能夠降低我們現在已經開始在調整了我有時間再跟你請教因為這個問題很重要我再給我10分鐘我也講不完但是我要遵守時間的規律這個招委要以身作則"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":653,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（11時38分）謝謝主席，我一定遵守時間，一定是6加2。謝謝主席，請國發會劉主委。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：委員好。"],["邱委員志偉：我們看第一個數據，根據你們發布的數據，2023年的總生育率降到0.865，僅高於韓國的0.72，那是針對2023年，對不對？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的。"],["邱委員志偉：我們看一下美國的數據，根據美國的數據，臺灣已經低於韓國的生育率，變成全世界倒數第一名，所有的國家裡面，我們排227啊！你們現在所提的五面向對策目前正在實施，明年2月又要提解方，如果執行到現在的五面向對策有效的話，它不會變成那麼嚴峻的態勢，就是說我們在227個國家裡面，我們的生育率是倒數第一，是全世界生育率最低的國家，這是不是一個不可逆的趨勢？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：目前來看，其實要可逆是有點難度啦！我們希望先守住現在……"],["邱委員志偉：會永遠的倒數第一名，對不對？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的。"],["邱委員志偉：是的？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：嗯。"],["邱委員志偉：哇！如果你這樣……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：因為我們現在應該這樣看……"],["邱委員志偉：這代表你的對策沒有對症下藥。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我跟委員報告一下，我們現在最大的困難其實還是在大家的結婚慾望比較低，我們必須先解掉這一段，否則會很困難……"],["邱委員志偉：為什麼結婚慾望比較低呢？就是因為低薪嘛！你低薪，代表說你的可支配所得減少，你就不敢養兒育女，對不對？包括物價膨脹、生活支出大幅提高，包括物價的上漲，包括高房價，所以他不敢生，也沒有辦法養。不能怪罪年輕人說他不結婚、不生小孩，因為他生了之後養不起，沒有辦法養，也沒有辦法給他們好的條件跟環境。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：所以我們一直在探討怎麼樣讓0到6歲國家一起養的政策更能夠吻合市場需求，當然這需要大量的預算，所以還是就像我之前報告的，我們需要找財源，那……"],["邱委員志偉：您知道嗎？日本曾經是最早進入超高齡社會的國家，但他們已經慢慢的可逆了，他們的生育率有提高了。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：他們本來可逆是回到了1.4，但是又降回到1.2，疫情的期間……"],["邱委員志偉：但是最起碼他們已經控制這種惡化的狀況，所以他們內閣裡面有個少子化大臣……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，他們有一個少子化大臣。"],["邱委員志偉：大臣是內閣的閣員，閣員相當於部長，部長有實權、有預算、有人力去執行少子化相關的對策，而我們目前的狀況是由政委召集，政委是協調各部會的執行狀況，進行政策的規劃協調，政委也不需要來立法院備詢，不管是院會或是委員會，他的執行狀況如何，我們沒有辦法透過國會來監督啊！所以為什麼你必須要去參考其他國家，是不是要成立一個專責的少子化對策部或少子化對策委員會，有一個專任的部長來接受國會的監督，編列預算、充實人力、對症下藥，把青年的低薪問題解決、可支配所得提高、降低房價、降低生活開支，他們才有意願去生，才有能力去養。明年2月你還要邀集各部會提解方，這五個面向是不是正在做的事情？都是在做的事情嘛！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好，您的建議我也會跟院長報告，看看他對這件事有什麼樣的裁示。"],["邱委員志偉：不是，你是幕僚機關，你應該提出解方，而不是去問院長，因為院長一定會回問你的看法是怎麼樣。你不能去問院長，你是幕僚的首長……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：沒錯啊！"],["邱委員志偉：所以這部分應該是你要提出解方，我剛剛也說要對症下藥，看看究竟問題在哪裡，針對問題解決問題。","我們再看一下女性就業的狀況，我們20歲到24歲的女性勞動參與率比較低的原因是因為就學年數的關係，他要念研究所。25歲到29歲女性勞參率大概是鄰國之冠，達到90%，但是到40歲以上，因為結婚的關係、生育的關係，他就沒有辦法再返回職場。不像其他的國家，包括日本、南韓跟美國，他們重返職場的比率比臺灣高太多了。你看臺灣到5.3%耶；另外65歲以上，還有50歲到64歲，每一個年齡世代都比韓國、日本還低，為什麼女性沒有辦法在結婚育兒之後重返職場，這個要去探討原因。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：有，針對這兩個問題，其實我們有兩個比率都比較低，一個是中高齡的就業比率比較低，第二個是婦女的勞參率比較低，這個我們都有跟勞動部討論，勞動部都有一些政策出來……"],["邱委員志偉：你講到銀髮族或者是退休的狀況，我們看最後一個表，關於勞動參與率的年齡別，我們25歲到49歲這個年齡還有八成的勞動參與率，跟國際相比毫不遜色，但是50歲以上呢？所謂的壯世代，我們現在討論的壯世代是50歲到64歲，這個基本上體力都沒有問題，但他的勞參率是階梯式、雪崩式的下降，你要怎麼去解決這個問題？怎麼把二度就業者、銀髮族能夠再重新導入職場，這需要政策去引導。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：針對這個部分，我不知道勞動部是不是可以來說明一下？因為勞動部針對婦女跟中高齡都有相當的政策。"],["邱委員志偉：我沒有那麼多時間，我只是把這個問題提出來，我希望你做為一個協調單位，你要跟院長講，你也要跟陳時中政委講，這部分非常重要。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好的。"],["邱委員志偉：另外講到缺工的問題，人力銀行公布今年4月我們的缺工來到110萬左右，國人到海外工作人數將近50萬，中國最多，美國居次，然後就是東南亞。以鄰國來講，包括日本，臺灣人去工作的也多，包括南韓也吸引臺灣留學生，挖走了我們很多的白領跟知識菁英，相對的我們的政策要吸引其他國家的高階人才、白領人才到臺灣來，反而效果有限，問題到底出在哪裡呢？你的目標是2030年要留才、攬才目標40萬，請問目前結果怎麼樣？現在是2024年，未來還有6年，你要達到40萬攬才的目標，到底能不能達成呢？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：至少我們現在有訂定相當的策略，我們也分配到不同的任務裡面去，以目前來看的話，我們最大的來源還是僑外生在這邊求學的，這是最大的來源。第二個是我們現在開始進行到海外攬才的部分……"],["邱委員志偉：是啊！那是杯水車薪，你的40萬目標，我覺得這個很拚啦！","另外，高階專業人才的門檻要16萬，你要他久居的這些福利、資源也沒有配套措施，所以我覺得你要模仿或者學其他國家作法，能夠把這個門檻降低。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們現在已經開始在調整了，因為包括……"],["邱委員志偉：不好意思，我的時間到了我有時間再跟你請教，因為這個問題很重要。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的。"],["邱委員志偉：再給我10分鐘我也講不完，但是我要遵守時間的規定，召委要以身作則。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：現在請羅智強委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":224,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-8","speakers":["邱志偉","林岱樺","邱議瑩","呂玉玲","張啓楷","張嘉郡","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鄭正鈐","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯","陳超明","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","陳菁徽","賴惠員","羅美玲","陳培瑜","蔡易餘","林月琴","翁曉玲","張雅琳","吳春城"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1138901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138901_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、衛生福利部首長、教育部首長、勞動部首長就「我國少子女\n化現況及對策計畫成效，暨我國與亞鄰國家之留才攬才政策競爭力比較」進行報告，並備質詢；\n二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、行政院人事行政總處首長就「我國少子女化對策主管單位與\n主要國家做法之比較，暨我國參採改制之可行性」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138901_00003"}}}