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\"委員這個整個園區總共是50幾公頃那當然我們在就剛剛也有委員質詢我們在設計規劃和施工的時候我們會考慮到未來它的整體防空的部分好啦沒關係啦114年的預算反正還沒審嘛未來我們還是有時間一起來慢慢的共同來思考這個問題總之本席理解未來在這一個民雄航太曁無人機的產業園區是不是就是會像一個無人機版的科技園區呢\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 131.411, \"end\": 132.711, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 132.711, \"end\": 133.531, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 133.531, \"end\": 133.731, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 133.731, \"end\": 134.392, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 134.392, \"end\": 135.052, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"頃\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 135.052, \"end\": 135.332, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 135.332, \"end\": 135.472, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 135.472, \"end\": 135.712, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 135.712, \"end\": 136.212, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 136.212, \"end\": 136.992, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 136.992, \"end\": 137.072, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 137.072, \"end\": 137.152, \"score\": 0.715}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 137.152, \"end\": 137.732, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 137.732, \"end\": 137.912, \"score\": 0.653}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 137.912, \"end\": 138.532, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"和\", \"start\": 138.532, \"end\": 139.093, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"施\", \"start\": 139.093, \"end\": 139.373, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 139.373, \"end\": 139.573, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 139.573, 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{\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 158.016, \"end\": 158.236, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 158.236, \"end\": 158.536, \"score\": 0.702}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"無\", \"start\": 158.536, \"end\": 158.736, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 158.736, \"end\": 159.297, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"版\", \"start\": 159.297, \"end\": 159.597, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 159.597, \"end\": 159.977, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 159.977, \"end\": 160.237, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"技\", \"start\": 160.237, \"end\": 160.357, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 160.357, \"end\": 160.377, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 163.286, \"end\": 165.007, \"text\": \"就是說我現在的問題就是推動產業的發展這一個職責不是應該是經濟部的事情嗎怎麼會叫國防部來做呢怎麼會叫中科院來負責推動產業發展的開發案呢\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 163.286, \"end\": 163.446, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"是\", 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191.798, \"end\": 192.038, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 192.038, \"end\": 192.158, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 192.158, \"end\": 192.618, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 192.618, \"end\": 193.559, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 193.559, \"end\": 194.819, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 194.819, \"end\": 195.119, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 195.119, \"end\": 195.339, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 195.339, \"end\": 196.24, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 196.24, \"end\": 196.64, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 196.64, \"end\": 197.0, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 197.0, \"end\": 197.36, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 197.36, \"end\": 198.7, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 198.7, \"end\": 198.86, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 198.86, \"end\": 198.98, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 198.98, \"end\": 199.1, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 199.1, \"end\": 199.22, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 199.22, \"end\": 199.541, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 199.541, \"end\": 199.681, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 199.681, \"end\": 199.781, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 199.781, \"end\": 200.141, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 200.141, \"end\": 200.161, \"score\": 0.645}, {\"word\": \"編\"}, {\"word\": \"組\"}]}, {\"start\": 201.201, \"end\": 206.963, \"text\": \"那我請問部長這個是真的是你們國防部跟中科院出於自願的嗎是真的是你們想要開發的計畫嗎還是因為負責產業開發還有推動產業發展的經濟部和國安會沒有錢所以逼我們有錢的國防部來當爐主啊亦要你們國防部吞下去來編的這個預算呢\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 201.201, \"end\": 201.321, 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{\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 205.202, \"end\": 205.222, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"畫\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 205.222, \"end\": 205.242, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 205.242, \"end\": 205.262, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"負\", \"start\": 205.262, \"end\": 205.382, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 205.382, \"end\": 205.402, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 205.402, \"end\": 205.422, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 205.422, \"end\": 205.462, \"score\": 0.197}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 205.462, \"end\": 205.482, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 205.482, \"end\": 205.502, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"和\", \"start\": 205.502, \"end\": 205.602, \"score\": 0.557}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 205.602, \"end\": 205.622, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 205.622, \"end\": 206.062, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 206.062, \"end\": 206.083, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 206.083, \"end\": 206.143, \"score\": 0.633}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 206.143, \"end\": 206.243, \"score\": 0.502}, {\"word\": \"逼\", \"start\": 206.243, \"end\": 206.323, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 206.323, \"end\": 206.343, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 206.343, \"end\": 206.363, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 206.363, \"end\": 206.383, \"score\": 0.01}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 206.383, \"end\": 206.443, \"score\": 0.662}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 206.443, \"end\": 206.463, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"爐\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 206.463, \"end\": 206.483, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 206.483, \"end\": 206.503, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"亦\", \"start\": 206.503, \"end\": 206.603, \"score\": 0.59}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 206.603, \"end\": 206.623, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 206.623, \"end\": 206.683, \"score\": 0.587}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 206.683, \"end\": 206.703, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 206.703, \"end\": 206.763, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"吞\", \"start\": 206.763, \"end\": 206.783, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 206.783, \"end\": 206.803, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 206.803, \"end\": 206.823, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"編\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 206.823, \"end\": 206.843, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 206.843, \"end\": 206.943, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 206.943, \"end\": 206.963, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 221.138, \"end\": 226.402, \"text\": \"委員 這個預算您可能有一點誤會它是從行政院的公共建設預算專案撥出來給國防部來執行的這就是我後面要問的問題就是我認為這肯定是行政院的陰謀嘛它為了要把這個協助民間的推動無人機的產業發展的目的冠上了打造國防自主的字眼然後讓我們國防部可以吞下這一筆的預算企圖來模糊整個焦點\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 221.138, \"end\": 221.158, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 221.158, \"end\": 221.278, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 221.278, \"end\": 221.458, \"score\": 0.584}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 221.458, \"end\": 221.558, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 221.558, \"end\": 221.578, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 221.578, \"end\": 221.658, \"score\": 0.673}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 221.658, \"end\": 221.678, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"誤\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 221.678, \"end\": 221.698, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 221.698, \"end\": 221.778, \"score\": 0.658}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 221.778, \"end\": 221.879, \"score\": 0.429}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 221.879, \"end\": 221.899, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 221.899, \"end\": 221.999, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 221.999, \"end\": 222.019, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 222.019, \"end\": 222.039, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 222.039, \"end\": 222.059, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 222.059, \"end\": 222.079, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 222.079, \"end\": 222.179, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 222.179, \"end\": 222.199, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"撥\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 222.199, \"end\": 222.239, 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{\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 224.901, \"end\": 224.921, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 224.921, \"end\": 225.021, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 225.021, \"end\": 225.041, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 225.041, \"end\": 225.121, \"score\": 0.672}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 225.121, \"end\": 225.141, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 225.141, \"end\": 225.361, \"score\": 0.693}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 225.361, \"end\": 225.381, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"吞\", \"start\": 225.381, \"end\": 225.521, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 225.521, \"end\": 225.541, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 225.541, \"end\": 225.561, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"筆\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 225.561, \"end\": 225.641, \"score\": 0.501}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 225.641, \"end\": 225.821, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"企\", \"start\": 225.821, \"end\": 226.322, \"score\": 0.727}, {\"word\": \"圖\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"模\", \"start\": 226.322, \"end\": 226.342, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"糊\", \"start\": 226.342, \"end\": 226.362, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 226.362, \"end\": 226.382, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"焦\", \"start\": 226.382, \"end\": 226.402, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"點\"}]}, {\"start\": 246.536, \"end\": 262.664, \"text\": \"那大家不敢隨便動這筆預算啊不然我們就會被批評說是反對國防自主然後被扣上親中的大帽子啊所以因為我覺得很奇怪就是中科院明明就是負責研發的嘛怎麼會叫你們去發展一個管理的這種產業園區呢\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 246.536, \"end\": 246.836, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 246.836, \"end\": 246.996, \"score\": 0.762}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 246.996, \"end\": 247.216, \"score\": 0.726}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 247.216, \"end\": 248.077, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"敢\", \"start\": 248.077, \"end\": 248.497, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"隨\"}, 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\"end\": 261.684, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 261.684, \"end\": 261.844, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 261.844, \"end\": 262.164, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 262.164, \"end\": 262.344, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 262.344, \"end\": 262.504, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 262.504, \"end\": 262.644, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 262.644, \"end\": 262.664, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 264.565, \"end\": 265.366, \"text\": \"管理科學園區不是就是國科會的事情嗎?管理產業園區不是就是經濟部的業務執掌嗎?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 264.565, \"end\": 264.585, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 264.585, \"end\": 264.665, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 264.665, \"end\": 264.725, \"score\": 0.012}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 264.725, \"end\": 264.745, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 264.745, \"end\": 264.805, \"score\": 0.664}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 264.805, \"end\": 264.825, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 264.825, \"end\": 264.845, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 264.845, \"end\": 264.925, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 264.925, \"end\": 264.945, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 264.945, \"end\": 264.965, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 264.965, \"end\": 264.985, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 264.985, \"end\": 265.065, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 265.065, \"end\": 265.085, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 265.085, \"end\": 265.105, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 265.105, \"end\": 265.125, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 265.125, \"end\": 265.146, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 265.146, \"end\": 265.226, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 265.226, \"end\": 265.246, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 265.246, \"end\": 265.266, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 265.266, \"end\": 265.346, \"score\": 0.394}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"掌\", \"start\": 265.346, \"end\": 265.366, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 279.696, \"end\": 298.041, \"text\": \"但是中科院在這個部分包括規劃設置低速轟動這些檢測儀器設備還有這個無人機的AI模擬及算力中心它有它的專業所以在這個部分可以協助廠商在進行這些有關這個無人機這個一些工性的設計測試這些還有這些開發的這個部分我們可以來協助來進行這樣的一個驗證\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 279.696, \"end\": 279.856, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 279.856, \"end\": 280.036, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 280.036, 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\"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 296.921, \"end\": 297.141, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 297.141, \"end\": 297.221, \"score\": 0.719}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 297.221, \"end\": 297.301, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"測\"}, {\"word\": \"試\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 297.301, \"end\": 297.321, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 297.321, \"end\": 297.341, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 297.341, \"end\": 297.421, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 297.421, \"end\": 297.461, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 297.461, \"end\": 297.501, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 297.501, \"end\": 297.681, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 297.681, \"end\": 297.701, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 297.701, \"end\": 297.801, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 297.801, \"end\": 297.821, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 297.821, \"end\": 297.861, \"score\": 0.498}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 297.861, \"end\": 298.001, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 298.001, \"end\": 298.021, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 298.021, \"end\": 298.041, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"驗\"}, {\"word\": \"證\"}]}, {\"start\": 306.744, \"end\": 335.179, \"text\": \"所以中科院在這個部分有這個樣子的一個強項那當然前面的委員也提到了說中科院可能在管理的經驗上面會有所缺乏那這個部分我們會跟國科會有管理園區的這個經驗的人來做經驗交流那也招募這個部分的人才那這樣子雙方面結合我想會快速的來落實我們無人機自主生產的一個政策或者甚至打入國際供應鏈裡面一環這樣子的一個目標\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 306.744, \"end\": 306.844, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 306.844, \"end\": 306.964, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 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0.929}, {\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 899.331, \"end\": 899.371, \"score\": 0.372}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 899.371, \"end\": 899.391, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 901.616, \"end\": 901.918, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 901.918, \"end\": 902.039, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 902.039, \"end\": 902.059, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,349 --> 00:00:10,084\n請國防部部長請郭部長是林委員好\n\n2\n00:00:10,984 --> 00:00:15,746\n部長你知道國防部所屬的軍備局預計要在114年度編列一筆高達68億5900萬的預算聽說這個未來要準備捐給中科院要在嘉義縣民雄蓋一個所謂推動民雄航太曁無人機產業園區的開發計劃對不對\n\n3\n00:00:32,074 --> 00:01:01,216\n那68我了解是公共預算編列不是我們是國安會那個因為行政院核定那等一下等一下因為時間時間會不夠那我先請問一下我就問什麼你們就答什麼就好了那請問部長那未來這一個無人機產業園區除了一部分是中科院自己要當作無人機的生產基地之外還有沒有其他功能\n\n4\n00:01:03,188 --> 00:01:27,063\n現在有分成西側跟東側那這個詳細的部分是不是請中院簡單回答研發生產製造都在這裡面它就是一個產業的生態系那所以照這樣看來的話這一個園區的目的就是要把軍用無人機的產業鏈從上游下游全部都集中在一起形成一個產業的聚落對吧\n\n5\n00:01:28,215 --> 00:01:32,701\n不只是軍用無人機是應該是所有的無人機全部都會在那個地方對不對好那問題來了那部長那你有沒有覺得說把雞蛋同樣都放在一個籃子裡面的問題呢因為我現在擔心的就是說像我們現在跟對岸中共這樣\n\n6\n00:01:44,176 --> 00:02:01,526\n知道我們台灣有一個那麼重要那麼跟國家安全國防自主有關的產業都聚集在那個地方了然後我擔心的是萬一兩岸真的要開戰了發生了事情時候的時候那中國是不是就只要往民雄航太曁無人機產業園區那邊丟幾顆飛彈只要打中一發那我們台灣的無人機的產能恐怕真的不知道要下降多少了那部長你不會擔心嗎\n\n7\n00:02:11,411 --> 00:02:40,377\n委員這個整個園區總共是50幾公頃那當然我們在就剛剛也有委員質詢我們在設計規劃和施工的時候我們會考慮到未來它的整體防空的部分好啦沒關係啦114年的預算反正還沒審嘛未來我們還是有時間一起來慢慢的共同來思考這個問題總之本席理解未來在這一個民雄航太曁無人機的產業園區是不是就是會像一個無人機版的科技園區呢\n\n8\n00:02:43,286 --> 00:02:45,007\n就是說我現在的問題就是推動產業的發展這一個職責不是應該是經濟部的事情嗎怎麼會叫國防部來做呢怎麼會叫中科院來負責推動產業發展的開發案呢\n\n9\n00:02:58,734 --> 00:03:20,161\n我想這個部分當然主要是說因為中科院有西側跟東側兩塊基地那西側的基地部分當然就現在的規劃當然就是說由中科院來做這個開發的一個工作那我想我們後續的部分也會成立一個專案編組\n\n10\n00:03:21,201 --> 00:03:26,963\n那我請問部長這個是真的是你們國防部跟中科院出於自願的嗎是真的是你們想要開發的計畫嗎還是因為負責產業開發還有推動產業發展的經濟部和國安會沒有錢所以逼我們有錢的國防部來當爐主啊亦要你們國防部吞下去來編的這個預算呢\n\n11\n00:03:41,138 --> 00:03:46,402\n委員這個預算您可能有一點誤會它是從行政院的公共建設預算專案撥出來給國防部來執行的這就是我後面要問的問題就是我認為這肯定是行政院的陰謀嘛它為了要把這個協助民間的推動無人機的產業發展的目的冠上了打造國防自主的字眼然後讓我們國防部可以吞下這一筆的預算企圖來模糊整個焦點\n\n12\n00:04:06,536 --> 00:04:22,664\n那大家不敢隨便動這筆預算啊不然我們就會被批評說是反對國防自主然後被扣上親中的大帽子啊所以因為我覺得很奇怪就是中科院明明就是負責研發的嘛怎麼會叫你們去發展一個管理的這種產業園區呢\n\n13\n00:04:24,565 --> 00:04:25,366\n管理科學園區不是就是國科會的事情嗎?管理產業園區不是就是經濟部的業務執掌嗎?\n\n14\n00:04:39,696 --> 00:04:58,041\n但是中科院在這個部分包括規劃設置低速轟動這些檢測儀器設備還有這個無人機的AI模擬及算力中心它有它的專業所以在這個部分可以協助廠商在進行這些有關這個無人機這個一些工性的設計測試這些還有這些開發的這個部分我們可以來協助來進行這樣的一個驗證\n\n15\n00:05:06,744 --> 00:05:35,179\n所以中科院在這個部分有這個樣子的一個強項那當然前面的委員也提到了說中科院可能在管理的經驗上面會有所缺乏那這個部分我們會跟國科會有管理園區的這個經驗的人來做經驗交流那也招募這個部分的人才那這樣子雙方面結合我想會快速的來落實我們無人機自主生產的一個政策或者甚至打入國際供應鏈裡面一環這樣子的一個目標\n\n16\n00:05:37,621 --> 00:06:00,760\n中科院你如果有人力把廠房都蓋好那請問部長你覺得中科院他們有人力和多餘的人力再去營運營運這個民雄無人機嗎?一定沒有嗎?到最後是不是會VOT呢?那你們會覺得到最後你們的方式是不是會用VOT呢?我想這個另外當然要增加相關的人力然後剛剛也提到他們會另外再成立一個單位你們會想要怎麼做呢?這個\n\n17\n00:06:03,516 --> 00:06:27,811\n委員這個跟您報告就是像剛剛有委員會質詢提到的所以我們會向國科會還有經濟部去請教相關的規劃然後後面我們會在117年之前把這個整個管理辦法做出來但是我要跟委員強調一點當時說叫中科院管理這個園區就是要成立一個獨立於中科院之外的單位來管理而不是由中科院直接管理\n\n18\n00:06:28,820 --> 00:06:36,791\n好所以我剛才有看你們的內容是民雄西側的基地是經濟部配合嘛對不對但是這表示你應該還是你們負責營運嘛現在以後未來的負責營運是誰負責啊是經濟部嗎還是你們呢\n\n19\n00:06:42,506 --> 00:07:07,236\n就是成立一個獨立於中科院之外的單位但是要由中科院來協助成立這個單位來負責營運那另外跟委員報告就是說為什麼會整個這個園區的規劃由中科院來設計那是因為只有中科院有整個無人機產線的規劃設計和實際建造的能力所以我們可以提供給各廠商怎麼去鋪陳他產線的這樣的經驗\n\n20\n00:07:09,943 --> 00:07:10,123\n委員在108年中科院\n\n21\n00:07:30,146 --> 00:07:49,835\n向國防部成構了就有長波用的這一塊營地的時候當時原本就準備要來發展航太的相關產業那後來我們也準備把我們的整個無人機的部分也建設在這一塊區域只是因為我們自己本身的預算不夠所以東側中科院\n\n22\n00:07:50,515 --> 00:08:05,013\n奉董事會同意只投入了11.1億那西側部分空在那所以為了加速整個園區的建置行政院才會在原本的國防預算額度之外另外用公共建設預算去增付68億多來協助西側的開發\n\n23\n00:08:09,195 --> 00:08:33,396\n好啦就不為難你們了現在就是還有一個問題就是產業政策要促進發展當然這個是利益良善啦但是交給中科院你們這是研發單位嘛所以萬一你們以後委外經營我比較擔心的是萬一園區有事情的時候那以後萬一發生了一些事情請問這個我們立委要怎麼監督啊政府要怎麼追究責任啊這個你們有想到嗎\n\n24\n00:08:36,301 --> 00:08:58,374\n你們有做這樣的規劃嗎?就是說萬一這個園區以後有事情,廠房蓋完啊,如果委外經營啊,還是說是你們是誰要負責這個事情呢?就是說以後我們立委要怎麼監督你們呢?還有政府要怎麼追究這些責任呢?委員您剛剛也知道說我們三個月之內會提供一部未來管理的初步規劃報告嘛,對不對?所以三個月內會嗎?我也會把您剛剛的問題列到這個規劃報告裡面,因為我之前也還沒想。抱歉。那你就三個月內齁,OK,好。\n\n25\n00:09:05,731 --> 00:09:06,131\n要對漢翔計法\n\n26\n00:09:33,589 --> 00:09:37,151\n國防部的委託案國防部對中科院會不會有罰款呢?也會有我想請教一下是國防部罰中科院的錢比較多還是中科院罰漢翔的錢比較多呢?第一個就是\n\n27\n00:09:49,915 --> 00:10:12,086\n我們罰漢祥現在漢祥也會很努力的找各種理由如果他能夠拿到美國原廠給他的就是不可抗力因素的證明的話其實按合約我們就罰不到他那第二個就是國防部就是空軍委託我們做這個案子空軍最後會罰我多少我現在也不能說誰多會誰少我真的不太清楚\n\n28\n00:10:13,462 --> 00:10:35,888\n如果是漢祥要繳的罰款比中科院的多那可能是代表你們中科院堅照不立啊所以我現在還有一個問題就是說部長你前陣子漢祥不是有一個員工嗎然後在IG上面公開我們ADF和AJT的敏感的資料然後被法辦嘛那這個案子漢祥也是因為違反合約的保密的條款被中科院罰款100萬那這個罰款中科院會不會繳回國防部呢\n\n29\n00:10:40,114 --> 00:10:45,931\n包括不會因為按照設置條例因為我是合約甲方所以按照合約的話他的罰款是繳給我\n\n30\n00:10:47,025 --> 00:11:10,113\n好那就奇怪了上面兩個高校的案子都是高校級的合約嘛漢翔延遲交機給中科院中科院要依照合約交款給國防部嘛對不對但是漢翔涉及洩漏機密但是中科院卻不用交款給國防部那不會很奇怪嗎剛剛中科院講的應該是兩個一個是他中科院跟漢翔的罰款\n\n31\n00:11:11,334 --> 00:11:18,395\n這個是他對因為洩密的就是只有中科院嘛到中科院而已對不對中科院是不可能再繳回國防部的嘛\n\n32\n00:11:20,461 --> 00:11:29,827\n還有漢祥給我的延遲交機的罰款也是在中科院對也是沒有繳回國防部是嗎是對但是空軍會針對但是是國防部付錢的啊為什麼什麼為什麼都是不會繳回就更奇怪我先來問一個機密外洩好了機密外洩國防部是建案的受影響人欸但是受害者是國防部欸但中科院你只是一個間接的然後你就變成受益人了這樣會不會覺得怪怪的啊\n\n33\n00:11:47,250 --> 00:12:01,489\n委員這不是受益人的部分因為在整個合約是我跟漢祥的合約關係跟國防部無關國防部跟我的關係是委制給我我再把委制的部分一部分是我的一部分是漢祥的\n\n34\n00:12:02,227 --> 00:12:03,248\n主席我再一下\n\n35\n00:12:19,261 --> 00:12:23,983\n再一分鐘這樣那個部長我還記得兩個禮拜之前那個雷神的預收款的問題嘛那現在的話就305億的預收款的有退還給我們嘛繳還國庫嘛但是繳還國庫的話就有一些貓膩啊這些錢現在是退到哪裡去呢是退到中央政府退到國防部退到空軍還是退到中科院呢\n\n36\n00:12:45,918 --> 00:13:03,722\n我想最後當然是會繳回國庫那相關這個過程當中是先繳回到哪一個這個要跟美方協調但是最後還是會完成結會之後會完成繳回國庫的一個作業所以現在還沒有協調嗎對不對現在還不知道嘛現在近期之內就會有就會緩緩了\n\n37\n00:13:07,663 --> 00:13:28,884\n那我就暫時先問到這邊等整個看到底是退還到哪裡最後一定是回國庫這已經是確定的一個事情這個我們跟主計總處已經這個完成了現在只是說他有一個流程那最後一定是匯回來之後一定是繳回國庫\n\n38\n00:13:30,902 --> 00:13:37,154\n好那我在如果是這樣的話繳回國庫的時候那305億裡面有沒有包含美國政府跟我們說的4.4的兩項服務費\n\n39\n00:13:40,295 --> 00:14:06,153\n我想這個部分相關的現在都是預收款的這個部分那退回我們款項的總金額的部分都是屬於預收款的部分因為4.4的行政費的話是我們13.5億的納稅款所以如果今天他4.4的行政費4.4%的行政費如果沒有退給我們的話那我們要損失13.5億人民的納稅款那是不是國防部這邊是不是是不敢給美國要呢還是還是他們不給我們呢\n\n40\n00:14:10,395 --> 00:14:10,896\n所以有沒有包含4.4%的\n\n41\n00:14:31,855 --> 00:14:59,391\n沒有現在就是說確定全部都是雷神公司的預收款那這個部分那因為設計多個國家那全部都是用預收款的方式來退還那這個部分跟委員報告所以都是屬於預收現在外面還有媒體講說什麼互糧一次互糧餅沒有這我們察覺沒有這回事沒有這回事這個這個人也要屁咬一下沒有沒有這回事沒有沒有什麼13.5億的真的是也是蠻高的OK\n\n42\n00:15:01,616 --> 00:15:02,059\n好那就這樣謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n349\t10084\t請國防部部長請郭部長是林委員好\n10984\t15746\t部長你知道國防部所屬的軍備局預計要在114年度編列一筆高達68億5900萬的預算聽說這個未來要準備捐給中科院要在嘉義縣民雄蓋一個所謂推動民雄航太曁無人機產業園區的開發計劃對不對\n32074\t61216\t那68我了解是公共預算編列不是我們是國安會那個因為行政院核定那等一下等一下因為時間時間會不夠那我先請問一下我就問什麼你們就答什麼就好了那請問部長那未來這一個無人機產業園區除了一部分是中科院自己要當作無人機的生產基地之外還有沒有其他功能\n63188\t87063\t現在有分成西側跟東側那這個詳細的部分是不是請中院簡單回答研發生產製造都在這裡面它就是一個產業的生態系那所以照這樣看來的話這一個園區的目的就是要把軍用無人機的產業鏈從上游下游全部都集中在一起形成一個產業的聚落對吧\n88215\t92701\t不只是軍用無人機是應該是所有的無人機全部都會在那個地方對不對好那問題來了那部長那你有沒有覺得說把雞蛋同樣都放在一個籃子裡面的問題呢因為我現在擔心的就是說像我們現在跟對岸中共這樣\n104176\t121526\t知道我們台灣有一個那麼重要那麼跟國家安全國防自主有關的產業都聚集在那個地方了然後我擔心的是萬一兩岸真的要開戰了發生了事情時候的時候那中國是不是就只要往民雄航太曁無人機產業園區那邊丟幾顆飛彈只要打中一發那我們台灣的無人機的產能恐怕真的不知道要下降多少了那部長你不會擔心嗎\n131411\t160377\t委員這個整個園區總共是50幾公頃那當然我們在就剛剛也有委員質詢我們在設計規劃和施工的時候我們會考慮到未來它的整體防空的部分好啦沒關係啦114年的預算反正還沒審嘛未來我們還是有時間一起來慢慢的共同來思考這個問題總之本席理解未來在這一個民雄航太曁無人機的產業園區是不是就是會像一個無人機版的科技園區呢\n163286\t165007\t就是說我現在的問題就是推動產業的發展這一個職責不是應該是經濟部的事情嗎怎麼會叫國防部來做呢怎麼會叫中科院來負責推動產業發展的開發案呢\n178734\t200161\t我想這個部分當然主要是說因為中科院有西側跟東側兩塊基地那西側的基地部分當然就現在的規劃當然就是說由中科院來做這個開發的一個工作那我想我們後續的部分也會成立一個專案編組\n201201\t206963\t那我請問部長這個是真的是你們國防部跟中科院出於自願的嗎是真的是你們想要開發的計畫嗎還是因為負責產業開發還有推動產業發展的經濟部和國安會沒有錢所以逼我們有錢的國防部來當爐主啊亦要你們國防部吞下去來編的這個預算呢\n221138\t226402\t委員 這個預算您可能有一點誤會它是從行政院的公共建設預算專案撥出來給國防部來執行的這就是我後面要問的問題就是我認為這肯定是行政院的陰謀嘛它為了要把這個協助民間的推動無人機的產業發展的目的冠上了打造國防自主的字眼然後讓我們國防部可以吞下這一筆的預算企圖來模糊整個焦點\n246536\t262664\t那大家不敢隨便動這筆預算啊不然我們就會被批評說是反對國防自主然後被扣上親中的大帽子啊所以因為我覺得很奇怪就是中科院明明就是負責研發的嘛怎麼會叫你們去發展一個管理的這種產業園區呢\n264565\t265366\t管理科學園區不是就是國科會的事情嗎?管理產業園區不是就是經濟部的業務執掌嗎?\n279696\t298041\t但是中科院在這個部分包括規劃設置低速轟動這些檢測儀器設備還有這個無人機的AI模擬及算力中心它有它的專業所以在這個部分可以協助廠商在進行這些有關這個無人機這個一些工性的設計測試這些還有這些開發的這個部分我們可以來協助來進行這樣的一個驗證\n306744\t335179\t所以中科院在這個部分有這個樣子的一個強項那當然前面的委員也提到了說中科院可能在管理的經驗上面會有所缺乏那這個部分我們會跟國科會有管理園區的這個經驗的人來做經驗交流那也招募這個部分的人才那這樣子雙方面結合我想會快速的來落實我們無人機自主生產的一個政策或者甚至打入國際供應鏈裡面一環這樣子的一個目標\n337621\t360760\t中科院你如果有人力把廠房都蓋好那請問部長你覺得中科院他們有人力和多餘的人力再去營運營運這個民雄無人機嗎?一定沒有嗎?到最後是不是會VOT呢?那你們會覺得到最後你們的方式是不是會用VOT呢?我想這個另外當然要增加相關的人力然後剛剛也提到他們會另外再成立一個單位你們會想要怎麼做呢?這個\n363516\t387811\t委員這個跟您報告就是像剛剛有委員會質詢提到的所以我們會向國科會還有經濟部去請教相關的規劃然後後面我們會在117年之前把這個整個管理辦法做出來但是我要跟委員強調一點當時說叫中科院管理這個園區就是要成立一個獨立於中科院之外的單位來管理而不是由中科院直接管理\n388820\t396791\t好所以我剛才有看你們的內容是民雄西側的基地是經濟部配合嘛對不對但是這表示你應該還是你們負責營運嘛現在以後未來的負責營運是誰負責啊是經濟部嗎還是你們呢\n402506\t427236\t就是成立一個獨立於中科院之外的單位但是要由中科院來協助成立這個單位來負責營運那另外跟委員報告就是說為什麼會整個這個園區的規劃由中科院來設計那是因為只有中科院有整個無人機產線的規劃設計和實際建造的能力所以我們可以提供給各廠商怎麼去鋪陳他產線的這樣的經驗\n429943\t430123\t委員在108年中科院\n450146\t469835\t向國防部成構了就有長波用的這一塊營地的時候當時原本就準備要來發展航太的相關產業那後來我們也準備把我們的整個無人機的部分也建設在這一塊區域只是因為我們自己本身的預算不夠所以東側中科院\n470515\t485013\t奉董事會同意只投入了11.1億那西側部分空在那所以為了加速整個園區的建置行政院才會在原本的國防預算額度之外另外用公共建設預算去增付68億多來協助西側的開發\n489195\t513396\t好啦就不為難你們了現在就是還有一個問題就是產業政策要促進發展當然這個是利益良善啦但是交給中科院你們這是研發單位嘛所以萬一你們以後委外經營我比較擔心的是萬一園區有事情的時候那以後萬一發生了一些事情請問這個我們立委要怎麼監督啊政府要怎麼追究責任啊這個你們有想到嗎\n516301\t538374\t你們有做這樣的規劃嗎?就是說萬一這個園區以後有事情,廠房蓋完啊,如果委外經營啊,還是說是你們是誰要負責這個事情呢?就是說以後我們立委要怎麼監督你們呢?還有政府要怎麼追究這些責任呢?委員您剛剛也知道說我們三個月之內會提供一部未來管理的初步規劃報告嘛,對不對?所以三個月內會嗎?我也會把您剛剛的問題列到這個規劃報告裡面,因為我之前也還沒想。抱歉。那你就三個月內齁,OK,好。\n545731\t546131\t要對漢翔計法\n573589\t577151\t國防部的委託案國防部對中科院會不會有罰款呢?也會有我想請教一下是國防部罰中科院的錢比較多還是中科院罰漢翔的錢比較多呢?第一個就是\n589915\t612086\t我們罰漢祥現在漢祥也會很努力的找各種理由如果他能夠拿到美國原廠給他的就是不可抗力因素的證明的話其實按合約我們就罰不到他那第二個就是國防部就是空軍委託我們做這個案子空軍最後會罰我多少我現在也不能說誰多會誰少我真的不太清楚\n613462\t635888\t如果是漢祥要繳的罰款比中科院的多那可能是代表你們中科院堅照不立啊所以我現在還有一個問題就是說部長你前陣子漢祥不是有一個員工嗎然後在IG上面公開我們ADF和AJT的敏感的資料然後被法辦嘛那這個案子漢祥也是因為違反合約的保密的條款被中科院罰款100萬那這個罰款中科院會不會繳回國防部呢\n640114\t645931\t包括不會因為按照設置條例因為我是合約甲方所以按照合約的話他的罰款是繳給我\n647025\t670113\t好 那就奇怪了 上面兩個高校的案子都是高校級的合約嘛 漢翔延遲交機給中科院 中科院要依照合約交款給國防部嘛 對不對但是漢翔涉及洩漏機密 但是中科院卻不用交款給國防部 那不會很奇怪嗎剛剛中科院講的應該是兩個 一個是他中科院跟漢翔的罰款\n671334\t678395\t這個是他對因為洩密的就是只有中科院嘛到中科院而已對不對中科院是不可能再繳回國防部的嘛\n680461\t689827\t還有漢祥給我的延遲交機的罰款也是在中科院對 也是沒有繳回國防部是嗎是 對 但是空軍會針對但是是國防部付錢的啊為什麼什麼為什麼都是不會繳回就更奇怪我先來問一個機密外洩好了機密外洩國防部是建案的受影響人欸但是受害者是國防部欸但中科院你只是一個間接的然後你就變成受益人了這樣會不會覺得怪怪的啊\n707250\t721489\t委員這不是受益人的部分因為在整個合約是我跟漢祥的合約關係跟國防部無關國防部跟我的關係是委制給我我再把委制的部分一部分是我的一部分是漢祥的\n722227\t723248\t主席我再一下\n739261\t743983\t再一分鐘這樣那個部長我還記得兩個禮拜之前那個雷神的預收款的問題嘛那現在的話就305億的預收款的有退還給我們嘛繳還國庫嘛但是繳還國庫的話就有一些貓膩啊這些錢現在是退到哪裡去呢是退到中央政府退到國防部退到空軍還是退到中科院呢\n765918\t783722\t我想最後當然是會繳回國庫那相關這個過程當中是先繳回到哪一個這個要跟美方協調但是最後還是會完成結會之後會完成繳回國庫的一個作業所以現在還沒有協調嗎 對不對現在還不知道嘛現在近期之內就會有就會緩緩了\n787663\t808884\t那我就暫時先問到這邊等整個看到底是退還到哪裡最後一定是回國庫這已經是確定的一個事情這個我們跟主計總處已經這個完成了現在只是說他有一個流程那最後一定是匯回來之後一定是繳回國庫\n810902\t817154\t好那我在如果是這樣的話繳回國庫的時候那305億裡面有沒有包含美國政府跟我們說的4.4的兩項服務費\n820295\t846153\t我想這個部分相關的現在都是預收款的這個部分那退回我們款項的總金額的部分都是屬於預收款的部分因為4.4的行政費的話是我們13.5億的納稅款所以如果今天他4.4的行政費4.4%的行政費如果沒有退給我們的話那我們要損失13.5億人民的納稅款那是不是國防部這邊是不是是不敢給美國要呢還是還是他們不給我們呢\n850395\t850896\t所以有沒有包含4.4%的\n871855\t899391\t沒有現在就是說確定全部都是雷神公司的預收款那這個部分那因為設計多個國家那全部都是用預收款的方式來退還那這個部分跟委員報告所以都是屬於預收現在外面還有媒體講說什麼互糧一次互糧餅沒有這我們察覺沒有這回事沒有這回事這個這個人也要屁咬一下沒有沒有這回事沒有沒有什麼13.5億的真的是也是蠻高的OK\n901616\t902059\t好 那就這樣 謝謝\n","txt":"請國防部部長請郭部長是林委員好\n部長你知道國防部所屬的軍備局預計要在114年度編列一筆高達68億5900萬的預算聽說這個未來要準備捐給中科院要在嘉義縣民雄蓋一個所謂推動民雄航太曁無人機產業園區的開發計劃對不對\n那68我了解是公共預算編列不是我們是國安會那個因為行政院核定那等一下等一下因為時間時間會不夠那我先請問一下我就問什麼你們就答什麼就好了那請問部長那未來這一個無人機產業園區除了一部分是中科院自己要當作無人機的生產基地之外還有沒有其他功能\n現在有分成西側跟東側那這個詳細的部分是不是請中院簡單回答研發生產製造都在這裡面它就是一個產業的生態系那所以照這樣看來的話這一個園區的目的就是要把軍用無人機的產業鏈從上游下游全部都集中在一起形成一個產業的聚落對吧\n不只是軍用無人機是應該是所有的無人機全部都會在那個地方對不對好那問題來了那部長那你有沒有覺得說把雞蛋同樣都放在一個籃子裡面的問題呢因為我現在擔心的就是說像我們現在跟對岸中共這樣\n知道我們台灣有一個那麼重要那麼跟國家安全國防自主有關的產業都聚集在那個地方了然後我擔心的是萬一兩岸真的要開戰了發生了事情時候的時候那中國是不是就只要往民雄航太曁無人機產業園區那邊丟幾顆飛彈只要打中一發那我們台灣的無人機的產能恐怕真的不知道要下降多少了那部長你不會擔心嗎\n委員這個整個園區總共是50幾公頃那當然我們在就剛剛也有委員質詢我們在設計規劃和施工的時候我們會考慮到未來它的整體防空的部分好啦沒關係啦114年的預算反正還沒審嘛未來我們還是有時間一起來慢慢的共同來思考這個問題總之本席理解未來在這一個民雄航太曁無人機的產業園區是不是就是會像一個無人機版的科技園區呢\n就是說我現在的問題就是推動產業的發展這一個職責不是應該是經濟部的事情嗎怎麼會叫國防部來做呢怎麼會叫中科院來負責推動產業發展的開發案呢\n我想這個部分當然主要是說因為中科院有西側跟東側兩塊基地那西側的基地部分當然就現在的規劃當然就是說由中科院來做這個開發的一個工作那我想我們後續的部分也會成立一個專案編組\n那我請問部長這個是真的是你們國防部跟中科院出於自願的嗎是真的是你們想要開發的計畫嗎還是因為負責產業開發還有推動產業發展的經濟部和國安會沒有錢所以逼我們有錢的國防部來當爐主啊亦要你們國防部吞下去來編的這個預算呢\n委員 這個預算您可能有一點誤會它是從行政院的公共建設預算專案撥出來給國防部來執行的這就是我後面要問的問題就是我認為這肯定是行政院的陰謀嘛它為了要把這個協助民間的推動無人機的產業發展的目的冠上了打造國防自主的字眼然後讓我們國防部可以吞下這一筆的預算企圖來模糊整個焦點\n那大家不敢隨便動這筆預算啊不然我們就會被批評說是反對國防自主然後被扣上親中的大帽子啊所以因為我覺得很奇怪就是中科院明明就是負責研發的嘛怎麼會叫你們去發展一個管理的這種產業園區呢\n管理科學園區不是就是國科會的事情嗎?管理產業園區不是就是經濟部的業務執掌嗎?\n但是中科院在這個部分包括規劃設置低速轟動這些檢測儀器設備還有這個無人機的AI模擬及算力中心它有它的專業所以在這個部分可以協助廠商在進行這些有關這個無人機這個一些工性的設計測試這些還有這些開發的這個部分我們可以來協助來進行這樣的一個驗證\n所以中科院在這個部分有這個樣子的一個強項那當然前面的委員也提到了說中科院可能在管理的經驗上面會有所缺乏那這個部分我們會跟國科會有管理園區的這個經驗的人來做經驗交流那也招募這個部分的人才那這樣子雙方面結合我想會快速的來落實我們無人機自主生產的一個政策或者甚至打入國際供應鏈裡面一環這樣子的一個目標\n中科院你如果有人力把廠房都蓋好那請問部長你覺得中科院他們有人力和多餘的人力再去營運營運這個民雄無人機嗎?一定沒有嗎?到最後是不是會VOT呢?那你們會覺得到最後你們的方式是不是會用VOT呢?我想這個另外當然要增加相關的人力然後剛剛也提到他們會另外再成立一個單位你們會想要怎麼做呢?這個\n委員這個跟您報告就是像剛剛有委員會質詢提到的所以我們會向國科會還有經濟部去請教相關的規劃然後後面我們會在117年之前把這個整個管理辦法做出來但是我要跟委員強調一點當時說叫中科院管理這個園區就是要成立一個獨立於中科院之外的單位來管理而不是由中科院直接管理\n好所以我剛才有看你們的內容是民雄西側的基地是經濟部配合嘛對不對但是這表示你應該還是你們負責營運嘛現在以後未來的負責營運是誰負責啊是經濟部嗎還是你們呢\n就是成立一個獨立於中科院之外的單位但是要由中科院來協助成立這個單位來負責營運那另外跟委員報告就是說為什麼會整個這個園區的規劃由中科院來設計那是因為只有中科院有整個無人機產線的規劃設計和實際建造的能力所以我們可以提供給各廠商怎麼去鋪陳他產線的這樣的經驗\n委員在108年中科院\n向國防部成構了就有長波用的這一塊營地的時候當時原本就準備要來發展航太的相關產業那後來我們也準備把我們的整個無人機的部分也建設在這一塊區域只是因為我們自己本身的預算不夠所以東側中科院\n奉董事會同意只投入了11.1億那西側部分空在那所以為了加速整個園區的建置行政院才會在原本的國防預算額度之外另外用公共建設預算去增付68億多來協助西側的開發\n好啦就不為難你們了現在就是還有一個問題就是產業政策要促進發展當然這個是利益良善啦但是交給中科院你們這是研發單位嘛所以萬一你們以後委外經營我比較擔心的是萬一園區有事情的時候那以後萬一發生了一些事情請問這個我們立委要怎麼監督啊政府要怎麼追究責任啊這個你們有想到嗎\n你們有做這樣的規劃嗎?就是說萬一這個園區以後有事情,廠房蓋完啊,如果委外經營啊,還是說是你們是誰要負責這個事情呢?就是說以後我們立委要怎麼監督你們呢?還有政府要怎麼追究這些責任呢?委員您剛剛也知道說我們三個月之內會提供一部未來管理的初步規劃報告嘛,對不對?所以三個月內會嗎?我也會把您剛剛的問題列到這個規劃報告裡面,因為我之前也還沒想。抱歉。那你就三個月內齁,OK,好。\n要對漢翔計法\n國防部的委託案國防部對中科院會不會有罰款呢?也會有我想請教一下是國防部罰中科院的錢比較多還是中科院罰漢翔的錢比較多呢?第一個就是\n我們罰漢祥現在漢祥也會很努力的找各種理由如果他能夠拿到美國原廠給他的就是不可抗力因素的證明的話其實按合約我們就罰不到他那第二個就是國防部就是空軍委託我們做這個案子空軍最後會罰我多少我現在也不能說誰多會誰少我真的不太清楚\n如果是漢祥要繳的罰款比中科院的多那可能是代表你們中科院堅照不立啊所以我現在還有一個問題就是說部長你前陣子漢祥不是有一個員工嗎然後在IG上面公開我們ADF和AJT的敏感的資料然後被法辦嘛那這個案子漢祥也是因為違反合約的保密的條款被中科院罰款100萬那這個罰款中科院會不會繳回國防部呢\n包括不會因為按照設置條例因為我是合約甲方所以按照合約的話他的罰款是繳給我\n好 那就奇怪了 上面兩個高校的案子都是高校級的合約嘛 漢翔延遲交機給中科院 中科院要依照合約交款給國防部嘛 對不對但是漢翔涉及洩漏機密 但是中科院卻不用交款給國防部 那不會很奇怪嗎剛剛中科院講的應該是兩個 一個是他中科院跟漢翔的罰款\n這個是他對因為洩密的就是只有中科院嘛到中科院而已對不對中科院是不可能再繳回國防部的嘛\n還有漢祥給我的延遲交機的罰款也是在中科院對 也是沒有繳回國防部是嗎是 對 但是空軍會針對但是是國防部付錢的啊為什麼什麼為什麼都是不會繳回就更奇怪我先來問一個機密外洩好了機密外洩國防部是建案的受影響人欸但是受害者是國防部欸但中科院你只是一個間接的然後你就變成受益人了這樣會不會覺得怪怪的啊\n委員這不是受益人的部分因為在整個合約是我跟漢祥的合約關係跟國防部無關國防部跟我的關係是委制給我我再把委制的部分一部分是我的一部分是漢祥的\n主席我再一下\n再一分鐘這樣那個部長我還記得兩個禮拜之前那個雷神的預收款的問題嘛那現在的話就305億的預收款的有退還給我們嘛繳還國庫嘛但是繳還國庫的話就有一些貓膩啊這些錢現在是退到哪裡去呢是退到中央政府退到國防部退到空軍還是退到中科院呢\n我想最後當然是會繳回國庫那相關這個過程當中是先繳回到哪一個這個要跟美方協調但是最後還是會完成結會之後會完成繳回國庫的一個作業所以現在還沒有協調嗎 對不對現在還不知道嘛現在近期之內就會有就會緩緩了\n那我就暫時先問到這邊等整個看到底是退還到哪裡最後一定是回國庫這已經是確定的一個事情這個我們跟主計總處已經這個完成了現在只是說他有一個流程那最後一定是匯回來之後一定是繳回國庫\n好那我在如果是這樣的話繳回國庫的時候那305億裡面有沒有包含美國政府跟我們說的4.4的兩項服務費\n我想這個部分相關的現在都是預收款的這個部分那退回我們款項的總金額的部分都是屬於預收款的部分因為4.4的行政費的話是我們13.5億的納稅款所以如果今天他4.4的行政費4.4%的行政費如果沒有退給我們的話那我們要損失13.5億人民的納稅款那是不是國防部這邊是不是是不敢給美國要呢還是還是他們不給我們呢\n所以有沒有包含4.4%的\n沒有現在就是說確定全部都是雷神公司的預收款那這個部分那因為設計多個國家那全部都是用預收款的方式來退還那這個部分跟委員報告所以都是屬於預收現在外面還有媒體講說什麼互糧一次互糧餅沒有這我們察覺沒有這回事沒有這回事這個這個人也要屁咬一下沒有沒有這回事沒有沒有什麼13.5億的真的是也是蠻高的OK\n好 那就這樣 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.349 --> 00:10.084\n請國防部部長請郭部長是林委員好\n\n00:10.984 --> 00:15.746\n部長你知道國防部所屬的軍備局預計要在114年度編列一筆高達68億5900萬的預算聽說這個未來要準備捐給中科院要在嘉義縣民雄蓋一個所謂推動民雄航太曁無人機產業園區的開發計劃對不對\n\n00:32.074 --> 01:01.216\n那68我了解是公共預算編列不是我們是國安會那個因為行政院核定那等一下等一下因為時間時間會不夠那我先請問一下我就問什麼你們就答什麼就好了那請問部長那未來這一個無人機產業園區除了一部分是中科院自己要當作無人機的生產基地之外還有沒有其他功能\n\n01:03.188 --> 01:27.063\n現在有分成西側跟東側那這個詳細的部分是不是請中院簡單回答研發生產製造都在這裡面它就是一個產業的生態系那所以照這樣看來的話這一個園區的目的就是要把軍用無人機的產業鏈從上游下游全部都集中在一起形成一個產業的聚落對吧\n\n01:28.215 --> 01:32.701\n不只是軍用無人機是應該是所有的無人機全部都會在那個地方對不對好那問題來了那部長那你有沒有覺得說把雞蛋同樣都放在一個籃子裡面的問題呢因為我現在擔心的就是說像我們現在跟對岸中共這樣\n\n01:44.176 --> 02:01.526\n知道我們台灣有一個那麼重要那麼跟國家安全國防自主有關的產業都聚集在那個地方了然後我擔心的是萬一兩岸真的要開戰了發生了事情時候的時候那中國是不是就只要往民雄航太曁無人機產業園區那邊丟幾顆飛彈只要打中一發那我們台灣的無人機的產能恐怕真的不知道要下降多少了那部長你不會擔心嗎\n\n02:11.411 --> 02:40.377\n委員這個整個園區總共是50幾公頃那當然我們在就剛剛也有委員質詢我們在設計規劃和施工的時候我們會考慮到未來它的整體防空的部分好啦沒關係啦114年的預算反正還沒審嘛未來我們還是有時間一起來慢慢的共同來思考這個問題總之本席理解未來在這一個民雄航太曁無人機的產業園區是不是就是會像一個無人機版的科技園區呢\n\n02:43.286 --> 02:45.007\n就是說我現在的問題就是推動產業的發展這一個職責不是應該是經濟部的事情嗎怎麼會叫國防部來做呢怎麼會叫中科院來負責推動產業發展的開發案呢\n\n02:58.734 --> 03:20.161\n我想這個部分當然主要是說因為中科院有西側跟東側兩塊基地那西側的基地部分當然就現在的規劃當然就是說由中科院來做這個開發的一個工作那我想我們後續的部分也會成立一個專案編組\n\n03:21.201 --> 03:26.963\n那我請問部長這個是真的是你們國防部跟中科院出於自願的嗎是真的是你們想要開發的計畫嗎還是因為負責產業開發還有推動產業發展的經濟部和國安會沒有錢所以逼我們有錢的國防部來當爐主啊亦要你們國防部吞下去來編的這個預算呢\n\n03:41.138 --> 03:46.402\n委員這個預算您可能有一點誤會它是從行政院的公共建設預算專案撥出來給國防部來執行的這就是我後面要問的問題就是我認為這肯定是行政院的陰謀嘛它為了要把這個協助民間的推動無人機的產業發展的目的冠上了打造國防自主的字眼然後讓我們國防部可以吞下這一筆的預算企圖來模糊整個焦點\n\n04:06.536 --> 04:22.664\n那大家不敢隨便動這筆預算啊不然我們就會被批評說是反對國防自主然後被扣上親中的大帽子啊所以因為我覺得很奇怪就是中科院明明就是負責研發的嘛怎麼會叫你們去發展一個管理的這種產業園區呢\n\n04:24.565 --> 04:25.366\n管理科學園區不是就是國科會的事情嗎?管理產業園區不是就是經濟部的業務執掌嗎?\n\n04:39.696 --> 04:58.041\n但是中科院在這個部分包括規劃設置低速轟動這些檢測儀器設備還有這個無人機的AI模擬及算力中心它有它的專業所以在這個部分可以協助廠商在進行這些有關這個無人機這個一些工性的設計測試這些還有這些開發的這個部分我們可以來協助來進行這樣的一個驗證\n\n05:06.744 --> 05:35.179\n所以中科院在這個部分有這個樣子的一個強項那當然前面的委員也提到了說中科院可能在管理的經驗上面會有所缺乏那這個部分我們會跟國科會有管理園區的這個經驗的人來做經驗交流那也招募這個部分的人才那這樣子雙方面結合我想會快速的來落實我們無人機自主生產的一個政策或者甚至打入國際供應鏈裡面一環這樣子的一個目標\n\n05:37.621 --> 06:00.760\n中科院你如果有人力把廠房都蓋好那請問部長你覺得中科院他們有人力和多餘的人力再去營運營運這個民雄無人機嗎?一定沒有嗎?到最後是不是會VOT呢?那你們會覺得到最後你們的方式是不是會用VOT呢?我想這個另外當然要增加相關的人力然後剛剛也提到他們會另外再成立一個單位你們會想要怎麼做呢?這個\n\n06:03.516 --> 06:27.811\n委員這個跟您報告就是像剛剛有委員會質詢提到的所以我們會向國科會還有經濟部去請教相關的規劃然後後面我們會在117年之前把這個整個管理辦法做出來但是我要跟委員強調一點當時說叫中科院管理這個園區就是要成立一個獨立於中科院之外的單位來管理而不是由中科院直接管理\n\n06:28.820 --> 06:36.791\n好所以我剛才有看你們的內容是民雄西側的基地是經濟部配合嘛對不對但是這表示你應該還是你們負責營運嘛現在以後未來的負責營運是誰負責啊是經濟部嗎還是你們呢\n\n06:42.506 --> 07:07.236\n就是成立一個獨立於中科院之外的單位但是要由中科院來協助成立這個單位來負責營運那另外跟委員報告就是說為什麼會整個這個園區的規劃由中科院來設計那是因為只有中科院有整個無人機產線的規劃設計和實際建造的能力所以我們可以提供給各廠商怎麼去鋪陳他產線的這樣的經驗\n\n07:09.943 --> 07:10.123\n委員在108年中科院\n\n07:30.146 --> 07:49.835\n向國防部成構了就有長波用的這一塊營地的時候當時原本就準備要來發展航太的相關產業那後來我們也準備把我們的整個無人機的部分也建設在這一塊區域只是因為我們自己本身的預算不夠所以東側中科院\n\n07:50.515 --> 08:05.013\n奉董事會同意只投入了11.1億那西側部分空在那所以為了加速整個園區的建置行政院才會在原本的國防預算額度之外另外用公共建設預算去增付68億多來協助西側的開發\n\n08:09.195 --> 08:33.396\n好啦就不為難你們了現在就是還有一個問題就是產業政策要促進發展當然這個是利益良善啦但是交給中科院你們這是研發單位嘛所以萬一你們以後委外經營我比較擔心的是萬一園區有事情的時候那以後萬一發生了一些事情請問這個我們立委要怎麼監督啊政府要怎麼追究責任啊這個你們有想到嗎\n\n08:36.301 --> 08:58.374\n你們有做這樣的規劃嗎?就是說萬一這個園區以後有事情,廠房蓋完啊,如果委外經營啊,還是說是你們是誰要負責這個事情呢?就是說以後我們立委要怎麼監督你們呢?還有政府要怎麼追究這些責任呢?委員您剛剛也知道說我們三個月之內會提供一部未來管理的初步規劃報告嘛,對不對?所以三個月內會嗎?我也會把您剛剛的問題列到這個規劃報告裡面,因為我之前也還沒想。抱歉。那你就三個月內齁,OK,好。\n\n09:05.731 --> 09:06.131\n要對漢翔計法\n\n09:33.589 --> 09:37.151\n國防部的委託案國防部對中科院會不會有罰款呢?也會有我想請教一下是國防部罰中科院的錢比較多還是中科院罰漢翔的錢比較多呢?第一個就是\n\n09:49.915 --> 10:12.086\n我們罰漢祥現在漢祥也會很努力的找各種理由如果他能夠拿到美國原廠給他的就是不可抗力因素的證明的話其實按合約我們就罰不到他那第二個就是國防部就是空軍委託我們做這個案子空軍最後會罰我多少我現在也不能說誰多會誰少我真的不太清楚\n\n10:13.462 --> 10:35.888\n如果是漢祥要繳的罰款比中科院的多那可能是代表你們中科院堅照不立啊所以我現在還有一個問題就是說部長你前陣子漢祥不是有一個員工嗎然後在IG上面公開我們ADF和AJT的敏感的資料然後被法辦嘛那這個案子漢祥也是因為違反合約的保密的條款被中科院罰款100萬那這個罰款中科院會不會繳回國防部呢\n\n10:40.114 --> 10:45.931\n包括不會因為按照設置條例因為我是合約甲方所以按照合約的話他的罰款是繳給我\n\n10:47.025 --> 11:10.113\n好那就奇怪了上面兩個高校的案子都是高校級的合約嘛漢翔延遲交機給中科院中科院要依照合約交款給國防部嘛對不對但是漢翔涉及洩漏機密但是中科院卻不用交款給國防部那不會很奇怪嗎剛剛中科院講的應該是兩個一個是他中科院跟漢翔的罰款\n\n11:11.334 --> 11:18.395\n這個是他對因為洩密的就是只有中科院嘛到中科院而已對不對中科院是不可能再繳回國防部的嘛\n\n11:20.461 --> 11:29.827\n還有漢祥給我的延遲交機的罰款也是在中科院對也是沒有繳回國防部是嗎是對但是空軍會針對但是是國防部付錢的啊為什麼什麼為什麼都是不會繳回就更奇怪我先來問一個機密外洩好了機密外洩國防部是建案的受影響人欸但是受害者是國防部欸但中科院你只是一個間接的然後你就變成受益人了這樣會不會覺得怪怪的啊\n\n11:47.250 --> 12:01.489\n委員這不是受益人的部分因為在整個合約是我跟漢祥的合約關係跟國防部無關國防部跟我的關係是委制給我我再把委制的部分一部分是我的一部分是漢祥的\n\n12:02.227 --> 12:03.248\n主席我再一下\n\n12:19.261 --> 12:23.983\n再一分鐘這樣那個部長我還記得兩個禮拜之前那個雷神的預收款的問題嘛那現在的話就305億的預收款的有退還給我們嘛繳還國庫嘛但是繳還國庫的話就有一些貓膩啊這些錢現在是退到哪裡去呢是退到中央政府退到國防部退到空軍還是退到中科院呢\n\n12:45.918 --> 13:03.722\n我想最後當然是會繳回國庫那相關這個過程當中是先繳回到哪一個這個要跟美方協調但是最後還是會完成結會之後會完成繳回國庫的一個作業所以現在還沒有協調嗎對不對現在還不知道嘛現在近期之內就會有就會緩緩了\n\n13:07.663 --> 13:28.884\n那我就暫時先問到這邊等整個看到底是退還到哪裡最後一定是回國庫這已經是確定的一個事情這個我們跟主計總處已經這個完成了現在只是說他有一個流程那最後一定是匯回來之後一定是繳回國庫\n\n13:30.902 --> 13:37.154\n好那我在如果是這樣的話繳回國庫的時候那305億裡面有沒有包含美國政府跟我們說的4.4的兩項服務費\n\n13:40.295 --> 14:06.153\n我想這個部分相關的現在都是預收款的這個部分那退回我們款項的總金額的部分都是屬於預收款的部分因為4.4的行政費的話是我們13.5億的納稅款所以如果今天他4.4的行政費4.4%的行政費如果沒有退給我們的話那我們要損失13.5億人民的納稅款那是不是國防部這邊是不是是不敢給美國要呢還是還是他們不給我們呢\n\n14:10.395 --> 14:10.896\n所以有沒有包含4.4%的\n\n14:31.855 --> 14:59.391\n沒有現在就是說確定全部都是雷神公司的預收款那這個部分那因為設計多個國家那全部都是用預收款的方式來退還那這個部分跟委員報告所以都是屬於預收現在外面還有媒體講說什麼互糧一次互糧餅沒有這我們察覺沒有這回事沒有這回事這個這個人也要屁咬一下沒有沒有這回事沒有沒有什麼13.5億的真的是也是蠻高的OK\n\n15:01.616 --> 15:02.059\n好那就這樣謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.349,"end":10.084,"text":"請國防部部長請郭部長是林委員好"},{"start":10.984,"end":15.746,"text":"部長你知道國防部所屬的軍備局預計要在114年度編列一筆高達68億5900萬的預算聽說這個未來要準備捐給中科院要在嘉義縣民雄蓋一個所謂推動民雄航太曁無人機產業園區的開發計劃對不對"},{"start":32.074,"end":61.216,"text":"那68我了解是公共預算編列不是我們是國安會那個因為行政院核定那等一下等一下因為時間時間會不夠那我先請問一下我就問什麼你們就答什麼就好了那請問部長那未來這一個無人機產業園區除了一部分是中科院自己要當作無人機的生產基地之外還有沒有其他功能"},{"start":63.188,"end":87.063,"text":"現在有分成西側跟東側那這個詳細的部分是不是請中院簡單回答研發生產製造都在這裡面它就是一個產業的生態系那所以照這樣看來的話這一個園區的目的就是要把軍用無人機的產業鏈從上游下游全部都集中在一起形成一個產業的聚落對吧"},{"start":88.215,"end":92.701,"text":"不只是軍用無人機是應該是所有的無人機全部都會在那個地方對不對好那問題來了那部長那你有沒有覺得說把雞蛋同樣都放在一個籃子裡面的問題呢因為我現在擔心的就是說像我們現在跟對岸中共這樣"},{"start":104.176,"end":121.526,"text":"知道我們台灣有一個那麼重要那麼跟國家安全國防自主有關的產業都聚集在那個地方了然後我擔心的是萬一兩岸真的要開戰了發生了事情時候的時候那中國是不是就只要往民雄航太曁無人機產業園區那邊丟幾顆飛彈只要打中一發那我們台灣的無人機的產能恐怕真的不知道要下降多少了那部長你不會擔心嗎"},{"start":131.411,"end":160.377,"text":"委員這個整個園區總共是50幾公頃那當然我們在就剛剛也有委員質詢我們在設計規劃和施工的時候我們會考慮到未來它的整體防空的部分好啦沒關係啦114年的預算反正還沒審嘛未來我們還是有時間一起來慢慢的共同來思考這個問題總之本席理解未來在這一個民雄航太曁無人機的產業園區是不是就是會像一個無人機版的科技園區呢"},{"start":163.286,"end":165.007,"text":"就是說我現在的問題就是推動產業的發展這一個職責不是應該是經濟部的事情嗎怎麼會叫國防部來做呢怎麼會叫中科院來負責推動產業發展的開發案呢"},{"start":178.734,"end":200.161,"text":"我想這個部分當然主要是說因為中科院有西側跟東側兩塊基地那西側的基地部分當然就現在的規劃當然就是說由中科院來做這個開發的一個工作那我想我們後續的部分也會成立一個專案編組"},{"start":201.201,"end":206.963,"text":"那我請問部長這個是真的是你們國防部跟中科院出於自願的嗎是真的是你們想要開發的計畫嗎還是因為負責產業開發還有推動產業發展的經濟部和國安會沒有錢所以逼我們有錢的國防部來當爐主啊亦要你們國防部吞下去來編的這個預算呢"},{"start":221.138,"end":226.402,"text":"委員 這個預算您可能有一點誤會它是從行政院的公共建設預算專案撥出來給國防部來執行的這就是我後面要問的問題就是我認為這肯定是行政院的陰謀嘛它為了要把這個協助民間的推動無人機的產業發展的目的冠上了打造國防自主的字眼然後讓我們國防部可以吞下這一筆的預算企圖來模糊整個焦點"},{"start":246.536,"end":262.664,"text":"那大家不敢隨便動這筆預算啊不然我們就會被批評說是反對國防自主然後被扣上親中的大帽子啊所以因為我覺得很奇怪就是中科院明明就是負責研發的嘛怎麼會叫你們去發展一個管理的這種產業園區呢"},{"start":264.565,"end":265.366,"text":"管理科學園區不是就是國科會的事情嗎?管理產業園區不是就是經濟部的業務執掌嗎?"},{"start":279.696,"end":298.041,"text":"但是中科院在這個部分包括規劃設置低速轟動這些檢測儀器設備還有這個無人機的AI模擬及算力中心它有它的專業所以在這個部分可以協助廠商在進行這些有關這個無人機這個一些工性的設計測試這些還有這些開發的這個部分我們可以來協助來進行這樣的一個驗證"},{"start":306.744,"end":335.179,"text":"所以中科院在這個部分有這個樣子的一個強項那當然前面的委員也提到了說中科院可能在管理的經驗上面會有所缺乏那這個部分我們會跟國科會有管理園區的這個經驗的人來做經驗交流那也招募這個部分的人才那這樣子雙方面結合我想會快速的來落實我們無人機自主生產的一個政策或者甚至打入國際供應鏈裡面一環這樣子的一個目標"},{"start":337.621,"end":360.76,"text":"中科院你如果有人力把廠房都蓋好那請問部長你覺得中科院他們有人力和多餘的人力再去營運營運這個民雄無人機嗎?一定沒有嗎?到最後是不是會VOT呢?那你們會覺得到最後你們的方式是不是會用VOT呢?我想這個另外當然要增加相關的人力然後剛剛也提到他們會另外再成立一個單位你們會想要怎麼做呢?這個"},{"start":363.516,"end":387.811,"text":"委員這個跟您報告就是像剛剛有委員會質詢提到的所以我們會向國科會還有經濟部去請教相關的規劃然後後面我們會在117年之前把這個整個管理辦法做出來但是我要跟委員強調一點當時說叫中科院管理這個園區就是要成立一個獨立於中科院之外的單位來管理而不是由中科院直接管理"},{"start":388.82,"end":396.791,"text":"好所以我剛才有看你們的內容是民雄西側的基地是經濟部配合嘛對不對但是這表示你應該還是你們負責營運嘛現在以後未來的負責營運是誰負責啊是經濟部嗎還是你們呢"},{"start":402.506,"end":427.236,"text":"就是成立一個獨立於中科院之外的單位但是要由中科院來協助成立這個單位來負責營運那另外跟委員報告就是說為什麼會整個這個園區的規劃由中科院來設計那是因為只有中科院有整個無人機產線的規劃設計和實際建造的能力所以我們可以提供給各廠商怎麼去鋪陳他產線的這樣的經驗"},{"start":429.943,"end":430.123,"text":"委員在108年中科院"},{"start":450.146,"end":469.835,"text":"向國防部成構了就有長波用的這一塊營地的時候當時原本就準備要來發展航太的相關產業那後來我們也準備把我們的整個無人機的部分也建設在這一塊區域只是因為我們自己本身的預算不夠所以東側中科院"},{"start":470.515,"end":485.013,"text":"奉董事會同意只投入了11.1億那西側部分空在那所以為了加速整個園區的建置行政院才會在原本的國防預算額度之外另外用公共建設預算去增付68億多來協助西側的開發"},{"start":489.195,"end":513.396,"text":"好啦就不為難你們了現在就是還有一個問題就是產業政策要促進發展當然這個是利益良善啦但是交給中科院你們這是研發單位嘛所以萬一你們以後委外經營我比較擔心的是萬一園區有事情的時候那以後萬一發生了一些事情請問這個我們立委要怎麼監督啊政府要怎麼追究責任啊這個你們有想到嗎"},{"start":516.301,"end":538.374,"text":"你們有做這樣的規劃嗎?就是說萬一這個園區以後有事情,廠房蓋完啊,如果委外經營啊,還是說是你們是誰要負責這個事情呢?就是說以後我們立委要怎麼監督你們呢?還有政府要怎麼追究這些責任呢?委員您剛剛也知道說我們三個月之內會提供一部未來管理的初步規劃報告嘛,對不對?所以三個月內會嗎?我也會把您剛剛的問題列到這個規劃報告裡面,因為我之前也還沒想。抱歉。那你就三個月內齁,OK,好。"},{"start":545.731,"end":546.131,"text":"要對漢翔計法"},{"start":573.589,"end":577.151,"text":"國防部的委託案國防部對中科院會不會有罰款呢?也會有我想請教一下是國防部罰中科院的錢比較多還是中科院罰漢翔的錢比較多呢?第一個就是"},{"start":589.915,"end":612.086,"text":"我們罰漢祥現在漢祥也會很努力的找各種理由如果他能夠拿到美國原廠給他的就是不可抗力因素的證明的話其實按合約我們就罰不到他那第二個就是國防部就是空軍委託我們做這個案子空軍最後會罰我多少我現在也不能說誰多會誰少我真的不太清楚"},{"start":613.462,"end":635.888,"text":"如果是漢祥要繳的罰款比中科院的多那可能是代表你們中科院堅照不立啊所以我現在還有一個問題就是說部長你前陣子漢祥不是有一個員工嗎然後在IG上面公開我們ADF和AJT的敏感的資料然後被法辦嘛那這個案子漢祥也是因為違反合約的保密的條款被中科院罰款100萬那這個罰款中科院會不會繳回國防部呢"},{"start":640.114,"end":645.931,"text":"包括不會因為按照設置條例因為我是合約甲方所以按照合約的話他的罰款是繳給我"},{"start":647.025,"end":670.113,"text":"好 那就奇怪了 上面兩個高校的案子都是高校級的合約嘛 漢翔延遲交機給中科院 中科院要依照合約交款給國防部嘛 對不對但是漢翔涉及洩漏機密 但是中科院卻不用交款給國防部 那不會很奇怪嗎剛剛中科院講的應該是兩個 一個是他中科院跟漢翔的罰款"},{"start":671.334,"end":678.395,"text":"這個是他對因為洩密的就是只有中科院嘛到中科院而已對不對中科院是不可能再繳回國防部的嘛"},{"start":680.461,"end":689.827,"text":"還有漢祥給我的延遲交機的罰款也是在中科院對 也是沒有繳回國防部是嗎是 對 但是空軍會針對但是是國防部付錢的啊為什麼什麼為什麼都是不會繳回就更奇怪我先來問一個機密外洩好了機密外洩國防部是建案的受影響人欸但是受害者是國防部欸但中科院你只是一個間接的然後你就變成受益人了這樣會不會覺得怪怪的啊"},{"start":707.25,"end":721.489,"text":"委員這不是受益人的部分因為在整個合約是我跟漢祥的合約關係跟國防部無關國防部跟我的關係是委制給我我再把委制的部分一部分是我的一部分是漢祥的"},{"start":722.227,"end":723.248,"text":"主席我再一下"},{"start":739.261,"end":743.983,"text":"再一分鐘這樣那個部長我還記得兩個禮拜之前那個雷神的預收款的問題嘛那現在的話就305億的預收款的有退還給我們嘛繳還國庫嘛但是繳還國庫的話就有一些貓膩啊這些錢現在是退到哪裡去呢是退到中央政府退到國防部退到空軍還是退到中科院呢"},{"start":765.918,"end":783.722,"text":"我想最後當然是會繳回國庫那相關這個過程當中是先繳回到哪一個這個要跟美方協調但是最後還是會完成結會之後會完成繳回國庫的一個作業所以現在還沒有協調嗎 對不對現在還不知道嘛現在近期之內就會有就會緩緩了"},{"start":787.663,"end":808.884,"text":"那我就暫時先問到這邊等整個看到底是退還到哪裡最後一定是回國庫這已經是確定的一個事情這個我們跟主計總處已經這個完成了現在只是說他有一個流程那最後一定是匯回來之後一定是繳回國庫"},{"start":810.902,"end":817.154,"text":"好那我在如果是這樣的話繳回國庫的時候那305億裡面有沒有包含美國政府跟我們說的4.4的兩項服務費"},{"start":820.295,"end":846.153,"text":"我想這個部分相關的現在都是預收款的這個部分那退回我們款項的總金額的部分都是屬於預收款的部分因為4.4的行政費的話是我們13.5億的納稅款所以如果今天他4.4的行政費4.4%的行政費如果沒有退給我們的話那我們要損失13.5億人民的納稅款那是不是國防部這邊是不是是不敢給美國要呢還是還是他們不給我們呢"},{"start":850.395,"end":850.896,"text":"所以有沒有包含4.4%的"},{"start":871.855,"end":899.391,"text":"沒有現在就是說確定全部都是雷神公司的預收款那這個部分那因為設計多個國家那全部都是用預收款的方式來退還那這個部分跟委員報告所以都是屬於預收現在外面還有媒體講說什麼互糧一次互糧餅沒有這我們察覺沒有這回事沒有這回事這個這個人也要屁咬一下沒有沒有這回事沒有沒有什麼13.5億的真的是也是蠻高的OK"},{"start":901.616,"end":902.059,"text":"好 那就這樣 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":710,"blocks":[["林委員憶君：（11時43分）請國防部部長。"],["主席：請顧部長。"],["顧部長立雄：林委員好。"],["林委員憶君：部長，國防部所屬的軍備局預計在114年度編列一筆高達68億5,900萬元的預算，聽說這筆錢未來準備捐給中科院，要在嘉義縣民雄興建一個園區，就是推動民雄航太暨無人機產業園區開發計畫案，對不對？"],["顧部長立雄：這68億元，據我的了解是以公共建設預算編列，不是我們，是國發會，因為是行政院核定，請他們說明一下相關流程。"],["林委員憶君：等一下，因為時間不夠，本席問什麼，你們就答什麼。請問部長，未來這個無人機產業園區，除了部分是中科院要當作無人機的生產基地之外，還有沒有其他功能？"],["顧部長立雄：現在有分成西側和東側，詳細的計畫是不是請中科院簡單回答？"],["李院長世強：研發、生產、製造都在這裡面，它就是一個產業的生態系。"],["林委員憶君：好。所以照這樣看來，這個園區的目的，就是要把軍用無人機的產業鏈上游、下游全部集中在一起，形成一個產業聚落，對吧？"],["李院長世強：不只是軍用無人機，應該是所有的無人機領域。"],["林委員憶君：全部都會在那個地方，對不對？好，那問題來了，部長，你有沒有覺得這就像把雞蛋放在同一個籃子裡？本席現在擔心的是，像我們現在和對岸中共的狀況，他們知道臺灣有一個那麼重要的地方，和國家安全、國防自主有關的產業都聚集在那裡，本席擔心的是，萬一兩岸真的開戰或發生事情，中國是不是只要往民雄航太暨無人機產業園區丟幾顆飛彈，只要打中一發，臺灣的無人機產能就不知道要下降多少。部長，你不會擔心嗎？"],["李院長世強：委員，整個園區總共是五十幾公頃，當然，剛剛也有委員質詢，在設計、規劃和施工的時候，我們會考慮到未來的整體防空。"],["林委員憶君：好，沒關係啦！反正114年的預算還沒審嘛！未來我們還有時間一起慢慢的思考這個問題。總之，就本席的理解，未來在民雄航太暨無人機產業園區，是否就是一個無人機版的科技園區呢？"],["顧部長立雄：無人機版的科技園區？這樣說也是……"],["林委員憶君：本席現在的問題是，推動產業發展的職責不是經濟部的事情嗎？怎麼會叫國防部做呢？怎麼會叫中科院負責推動產業發展的開發案呢？"],["顧部長立雄：這個部分主要是因為中科院有西側和東側兩塊基地，西側的基地，現在的規劃當然就是由中科院做開發工作嘛！我們後續也會成立一個專案編組。"],["林委員憶君：請問部長，這真的是國防部和中科院出於自願的嗎？真的是你們想要開發的計畫嗎？還是因為負責產業開發、推動產業發展的經濟部和國發會沒有錢，所以逼有錢的國防部當爐主啊！硬要國防部編列這筆預算？"],["李院長世強：委員，您對這筆預算可能有一點誤會，它是從行政院的公共建設預算專案撥補給國防部執行。"],["林委員憶君：對啊！這就是本席後面要問的問題，本席認為這肯定是行政院的陰謀嘛！他們為了協助民間推動無人機產業發展，冠上打造國防自主的字眼，然後讓國防部吞下這一筆預算，企圖模糊整個焦點，這樣大家就不敢隨便動這筆預算，不然就會被批評反對國防自主，被扣上親中的大帽子。","本席覺得很奇怪，中科院明明就是負責研發的嘛！怎麼會叫你們去發展、管理這種產業園區呢？剛才院長也有說嘛！對不對？你們怎麼有這種能力呢？這不是叫鯨魚去爬樹嗎？對不對？管理科學園區不是國科會的事情嗎？管理產業園區不是經濟部的業務職掌嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：但是中科院在這個部分，包括規劃、設置低速風洞這些檢測儀器、設備，還有無人機的AI模擬及算力中心，他們都具備專業能力，這個部分可以協助廠商進行有關無人機一些功、性能的設計、測試，還有開發的部分，我們可以協助進行驗證，中科院在這個部分具有強項。","當然，前面的委員也有提到，中科院在管理經驗上可能有所缺乏，這個部分我們會和國科會有管理園區經驗的人做經驗交流，也會招募這部分的人才，這樣雙方面結合，就會快速落實無人機自主生產的政策，甚至打入國際供應鏈的一環，達到這樣的目標。"],["林委員憶君：好，這樣問題就來了，中科院如果有能力把廠房都蓋好，請問部長，你覺得中科院他們有多餘的人力再去營運民雄的無人機園區嗎？一定沒有嘛！最後你們是不是會採用BOT的方式呢？"],["顧部長立雄：這個部分當然要增加相關人力，剛剛也提到，他們會另外再成立一個單位。"],["林委員憶君：你們想要怎麼做呢？"],["李院長世強：委員，就像剛剛有委員質詢提到的，我們會向國科會和經濟部請教相關規劃，也會在117年之前把整個管理辦法做出來。但是我要向委員強調一點，當時叫中科院管理這個園區，就是要成立一個獨立於中科院之外的單位來管理，而不是由中科院直接管理。"],["林委員憶君：本席剛才有看你們的報告內容，民雄西側的基地是由經濟部配合嘛！對不對？但還是由你們負責營運，未來由誰負責營運？是經濟部嗎？還是你們？"],["李院長世強：就是成立一個獨立於中科院之外的單位，由中科院協助成立，然後由這個單位負責營運。另外，為什麼這個園區的規劃是由中科院設計？因為只有中科院有無人機生產線的規劃、設計和實際建造能力，我們可以提供各廠商怎麼鋪陳生產線的經驗。"],["林委員憶君：就本席來看，本席覺得這個園區真的是國防部被拗預算蓋的啦！所以本席要再問一次，這個產業園區真的是國防部預定開發的計畫案嗎？是主動、自願要蓋的？還是行政院逼的呢？"],["李院長世強：委員，108年中科院向國防部承購、有償撥用這一塊營地的時候，當時原本就是準備要發展航太的相關產業，後來我們也準備把無人機的部分建置在這個區域，只是因為我們本身的預算不夠，所以中科院奉董事會同意，東側只投入11.1億元，西側的部分空著。為了加速整個園區的建置，行政院才會在原本的國防預算額度之外，另外用公共建設預算增付六十八億多元協助西側開發。"],["林委員憶君：好啦！就不為難你們了。現在還有一個問題，就是產業政策要促進發展，這當然是立意良善啦！但是交給中科院，你們是研發單位嘛！萬一你們以後委外經營，本席比較擔心的是，萬一園區發生事情，請問立委要怎麼監督？政府要怎麼追究責任？這部分你們有想到嗎？你們有做這樣的規劃嗎？廠房蓋完之後會不會委外經營？還是由你們的哪個單位負責這個事情呢？以後立委要怎麼監督你們？政府要怎麼追究這些責任呢？"],["李院長世強：委員，您也知道，我們3個月之內會提供一份未來管理的初步規劃報告嘛！對不對？"],["林委員憶君：所以3個月內會提供報告？"],["李院長世強：我也會把您剛剛的問題列到這個規劃報告裡面，因為我之前也沒有想過，抱歉。"],["林委員憶君：OK，那就請你們3個月內提供報告。接下來本席再問一下和中科院有關的問題，就是高教機的交機期程。請問一下部長，依據高教機的交機期程，總共要交18架嘛！聽說現在才交10架而已，年底沒有辦法達成目標的話，依照合約，中科院作為主約商，你們對漢翔公司是不是會罰款？"],["李院長世強：要對漢翔計罰。"],["林委員憶君：有嘛！"],["李院長世強：是的。"],["林委員憶君：這個是國防部的委託案，國防部對中科院會不會罰款呢？"],["李院長世強：也會有。"],["林委員憶君：也會有嘛！本席想請教一下，是國防部罰中科院的錢比較多？還是中科院罰漢翔的錢比較多呢？"],["李院長世強：第一個，我們罰漢翔，漢翔也會很努力的找各種理由，如果他們能夠拿到美國原廠給的不可抗力因素證明，其實按合約，我們就罰不到他們。第二個，國防部的空軍委託我們做這個案子，空軍最後會罰我們多少，我現在也不能說誰多或誰少，我真的不太清楚。"],["林委員憶君：如果是漢翔要繳的罰款比中科院多，可能代表中科院監造不利。本席現在還有一個問題，部長，前陣子漢翔不是有一個員工在IG公開ADF和AJT的敏感資料被法辦，這個案子漢翔也是因為違反合約的保密條款，被中科院罰款100萬元，中科院會不會將這筆罰款繳回國防部呢？"],["李院長世強：不會。因為我們是合約甲方，所以按照合約，他們的罰款是繳給我們。"],["林委員憶君：那就奇怪了，兩個高教機的合約，漢翔延遲交機給中科院，中科院要依照合約繳罰款給國防部嘛！對不對？但是漢翔涉及洩漏機密，中科院卻不用繳罰款給國防部，不會很奇怪嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：剛剛中科院說的應該是兩個部分，一個是中科院和漢翔的罰款，這個是他……"],["林委員憶君：對，因為洩密的部分只牽涉到中科院而已，對不對？中科院不可能再繳回國防部。"],["李院長世強：還有漢翔給我們的延遲交機罰款，也是在中科院。"],["林委員憶君：也沒有繳回國防部嗎？"],["李院長世強：是，對。但是空軍會針對我們……"],["林委員憶君：這是國防部付錢的，為什麼都不會繳回？現在更奇怪，本席先問機密外洩的部分好了，因為機密外洩，國防部是建案的受影響人耶！受害者是國防部，中科院只是間接的，結果是你們變成受益人，這樣會不會覺得怪怪的？"],["李院長世強：委員，這不是受益人的問題。因為這是我們和漢翔的合約關係，和國防部無關，國防部和我們的關係是委制，我們再把委制的內容分開，一部分是我們負責，一部分是漢翔負責，我們再和漢翔簽訂採購合約，向他們採購。所以按照合約規範的罰款，他們當然是繳給我們，而不是繳給國防部。"],["林委員憶君：反正國防部以後和中科院擬合約的時候，一定要全面考量。主席，本席再問1分鐘。部長，我們還記得兩個禮拜之前發生雷神的溢收款問題嘛！現在這305億元溢收款有退還給我們，最後會繳還國庫嘛！但這就有一些貓膩啊！這些錢是退到哪裡呢？是退到中央政府？退到國防部？退到空軍？還是退到中科院呢？"],["顧部長立雄：最後當然是繳回國庫，至於這個過程是先繳回哪一個單位，還在和美方協調，但是最後完成結匯之後，會完成繳回國庫的作業。"],["林委員憶君：所以現在還沒有協調嘛！對不對？現在還不知道嘛！"],["顧部長立雄：近期之內就會返還。"],["林委員憶君：好。本席暫時先問到這邊，看最後到底退還到哪裡，我們再……"],["顧部長立雄：最後一定是回國庫，這是確定的事情，我們和主計總處已經完成協調，只是它有一個流程，匯回來之後，最後一定是繳回國庫。"],["林委員憶君：如果是這樣的話，繳回國庫的這305億元，有沒有包含美國政府向我們收的4.4%的兩項服務費？部長有追蹤到嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：現在都是討論溢收款的部分，退回我們的款項都屬於溢收款。"],["林委員憶君：因為4.4%的行政費是13.5億元的納稅款。如果今天4.4%的行政費沒有退給我們的話，那我們要損失13.5億元，這是人民的納稅款，國防部是不敢向美國要呢？還是他們不給我們呢？這個部分要了解一下吧？"],["顧部長立雄：可以向委員報告的是，他們退給我們的款項，比他們原本初報的金額還要高。最後的金額要等實際退回來，結匯以後我們再向委員報告。"],["林委員憶君：所以有沒有包含4.4%的行政費？"],["顧部長立雄：沒有。現在確定全部都是雷神公司的溢收款。"],["林委員憶君：確定沒有？"],["顧部長立雄：因為涉及多個國家，全部都是用溢收款的方式退款。現在還有媒體說什麼一次付兩筆錢，經過我們查證沒有這回事，這個可能也要闢謠一下，沒有什麼……"],["林委員憶君：好啦！國防部還是要努力啦！看看可不可以向美方爭取一下，因為這13.5億元真的滿高的。"],["顧部長立雄：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝召委。因為剛剛有提到3個月內中科院要提出相關的經營管理報告，我們希望也把利弊得失和所有來龍去脈都提出來，好不好？因為國防預算很有限，這個工作應該怎麼運用到位，而且讓大家各司其職，如果我們覺得中科院是最好的，他們好在哪裡應該讓全體委員也知道，這樣比較好，這個部分也麻煩特別納入，謝謝。部長，沒有問題吧？謝謝。"],["主席（林委員憶君）：不好意思，我們再延長一下會議時間，先請鍾佳濱委員上台質詢，這個議題太熱門了。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":166,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-8","speakers":["林憶君","羅美玲","陳永康","王定宇","沈伯洋","林楚茵","陳冠廷","黃仁","洪申翰","馬文君","徐巧芯","賴士葆","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","羅智強","楊瓊瓔","王鴻薇","黃捷"],"page_start":105,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1138901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長報告「國軍無人機運用現況與未來發展機會及挑戰，並就協助中科院推動民雄航\n太暨無人機產業園區的開發作業進度及概況」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138901_00002"}}}