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{\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 140.887, \"end\": 141.167, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 141.167, \"end\": 141.308, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 141.308, \"end\": 141.668, \"score\": 0.673}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 141.668, \"end\": 141.988, \"score\": 0.703}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 141.988, \"end\": 142.428, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 142.428, \"end\": 142.548, \"score\": 0.724}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 142.548, \"end\": 143.469, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 143.469, \"end\": 143.629, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"送\", \"start\": 143.629, \"end\": 143.789, \"score\": 0.684}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 143.789, \"end\": 143.929, \"score\": 0.607}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 143.929, \"end\": 144.069, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 144.069, \"end\": 144.289, 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\"那在2021年4月之後那這個計費的公式就不公開所以讓外送員的收入減少5到7成不等那就是約略估算就是之前他們可能一個單收入可以60元可是在4月之後他們可能就只就是減到剩40元甚至剩24元那這樣子真的是好像變相的砍心所以當然就是說我們也要保重這個外送員的他的一個權益\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 148.832, \"end\": 148.932, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 148.932, \"end\": 149.693, \"score\": 0.655}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 149.693, \"end\": 150.133, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 150.133, \"end\": 150.313, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 150.313, \"end\": 150.493, \"score\": 0.737}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 150.493, \"end\": 150.734, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 150.734, \"end\": 151.574, \"score\": 0.782}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 151.574, \"end\": 151.694, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 151.694, \"end\": 151.874, \"score\": 0.949}, 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,591 --> 00:00:03,279\n謝謝主席請主席邀請陳部長交通部陳部長\n\n2\n00:00:12,950 --> 00:00:30,405\n部長早我們看到交通部在9號有預告就是這個外送平台機車運送運價就是這個外送費的修正法規草案那是不是請部長先簡單說明一下就是說要修訂這樣子一個草案的緣由是基於什麼樣的\n\n3\n00:00:32,306 --> 00:00:51,972\n因為這個產業是新興的產業那在台灣我相信每一個人大部分的生活都會受到他的影響或者受到他的幫助那這個產業到了現在當然有各個方面一方面是消費者一方面是外送員那還有店家那當然也還有企業就是產業面的部分那其實關係到的範圍蠻大的\n\n4\n00:00:54,733 --> 00:01:21,763\n那有很多的聲音跟包括立法院相當多的委員希望說這個部分是不是政府可以多一些的管理對於消費者的權益也可以保障那對於勞工的權益也可以保障那不過這個部分大家討論完之後認為說有一個很重要的必須由交通部來推行的就是運價透明化這個部分因為畢竟我們這個行業它主要是在送貨那個貨是食物啦送食物送貨\n\n5\n00:01:22,583 --> 00:01:49,734\n那有很多的單位都希望說交通部是不是可以把這個運駕透明化的這個制定方向先把它拿出來先把它拿出來那這個部分交通部這陣子就在研擬這件事情我們希望透明化那希望有一個公式那這個公式由各方一起來達成協議就是我剛剛講的產業就是公司Uber平台平台業者那一方面是外送的工會外送員的工會那一方面是消費者\n\n6\n00:01:50,154 --> 00:02:00,010\n所以我們也特別拜訪了消費者基金會那之後的會議也會邀請他們來參加那地方政府以及公路局未來也會一起來制定整個運費的公式\n\n7\n00:02:02,276 --> 00:02:25,070\n是好那就是剛剛部長有講到一個重點就是這個運費的透明化所以應該就是一個很重要的問題應該就是這個運費的一個透明化的問題那我們也看到就是這個全國外送產業工會的理事長他在日前受訪的時候他也有很明確的講出來就是說這個外送平台在2021年前就是運價都有詳細的計算公式\n\n8\n00:02:28,832 --> 00:02:56,273\n那在2021年4月之後那這個計費的公式就不公開所以讓外送員的收入減少5到7成不等那就是約略估算就是之前他們可能一個單收入可以60元可是在4月之後他們可能就只就是減到剩40元甚至剩24元那這樣子真的是好像變相的砍心所以當然就是說我們也要保重這個外送員的他的一個權益\n\n9\n00:02:58,254 --> 00:03:14,190\n所以對於這樣子的一個就是修正草案那也引起了很多的一個討論那我們看到就是說在我們9號公告之後那網路的媒體Yahoo就是也做了一個就是民意調查\n\n10\n00:03:15,391 --> 00:03:34,983\n就是在10月11跟10月15他有做了一個投票那他也有去做這樣子的一個訪問那對於這是說外送運費的一個修法準則支持度還算蠻高的就是也都應該都是有支持這樣子的一個修法的一個方向\n\n11\n00:03:36,143 --> 00:04:02,159\n第二個問題那就是說如果說未來運價準則就是它的費用可能會調漲的話那是不是還會點外送可是就有高達55的這個比例不會再點那先請教部長你認為這樣子的一個民調可信度如何我覺得他的題目第一題或許比較正常但第二題我認為這個有引導性就是有陷阱\n\n12\n00:04:02,919 --> 00:04:14,463\n對他就說如果外送將那個運費將調漲60到85元等等對那這個部分其實是有些引導對那就是事實上是會調漲60到85還是說會調漲到60至85那是不是就差很多\n\n13\n00:04:19,725 --> 00:04:46,676\n是而且報告委員其實我們現在整個修法的方向主要是針對透明化的機制的部分我們在做討論但是運價不一定會上漲喔運價不一定會上漲因為未來各方所討論出來制定的那個運價制定出來之後我們只有制定上限沒有制定下限當我們上限訂出來代表什麼代表它的運價不可以超過我們規定的上限但\n\n14\n00:04:47,096 --> 00:04:58,980\n要往下例如說現在很多人我時常在用UberEats我是用免運費的那個方案未來廠商可不可以繼續用免運費當然可以他可以繼續用免運費這個沒有問題所以沒有那種調漲60到85元這個議題並不存在\n\n15\n00:05:03,903 --> 00:05:13,794\n所以這是假議題我認為是假議題所以我覺得很重要我覺得這樣子的話可能就是會讓很多人誤解那因為我也看到一份報導這是一個媒體的一個關鍵一個評論的媒體他也說就是這樣子的一個訊息出來之後\n\n16\n00:05:20,982 --> 00:05:38,707\n消基會也表示反對那我不曉得說這方面您找到的...報告委員這個部分應該是有一些誤解消基會所聽到的消息是調漲但我剛剛也跟委員報告過我們這次沒有要做任何調漲的討論我們只有針對機制的透明化做討論\n\n17\n00:05:40,747 --> 00:06:10,027\n討論出來的那個機制他不一定是調漲有可能大家因為到時候消基會也會是討論的一方他們也會加入討論的一方所以消費者的權益一定會得到保障他不一定就是一定調漲那消基會得到的訊息可能是片面的事後我們有跟消基會做溝通那局長也特別去拜訪過消基會的董事長他們聽完之後他們也認為說透明化對於消費者的權益保障應該是有幫助的所以他們也支持透明化這個方案\n\n18\n00:06:10,447 --> 00:06:13,008\n是可是就是說當然這是剛剛部長回答的啦可是如果說看我們針對這個目前公告的這個修法的一個方向啊內容就是有提到說在幾種情況下可以加收等待費、樓層費、夜間加成費、春節運費等等\n\n19\n00:06:30,174 --> 00:06:43,893\n加收這樣子的話就是等於就是真的會漲啊報告委員這個裡面是得啦你可以把這個當作計價方案但也可以不把它當作計價方案可以討論這是可以討論的所以我說過\n\n20\n00:06:46,657 --> 00:07:12,313\n這一次我們的討論重點是放在透明化的機制透明化的機制運價透明化的機制那至於運價透明化裡面該包含哪些內容目前還在討論階段我們下禮拜三會有一個座談會邀集了消機會邀集了這個平台業者邀集了外送員工會大家一起來討論未來可能的計價機制那現在的狀況是這樣現在是沒有把這些放進去但\n\n21\n00:07:12,853 --> 00:07:42,177\n到底消費者所承受的運價是多少目前是沒人知道的送的那個人不知道付錢的那個人也不知道這是目前大家遇到的問題是所以本席在這邊也希望就是說我們在修正這樣子一個法案可能會影響的也就是聯動的就是三方嘛平台、消費者還有店家所以這個也是非常的重要所以我們是不是也有可能去做一個民調就是針對外送員的族群去做一個\n\n22\n00:07:43,318 --> 00:07:56,254\n民意調查消費者也做民意調查還有店家也做民意調查對他們所擔心的疑慮因為我們看到媒體的報導包括店家他們也擔心就是說這個外送平台這樣一個新興的產業這樣子的一個供應鏈\n\n23\n00:07:59,318 --> 00:08:11,470\n也讓他們的訂單有增加三成左右可是他也擔心說這個新制通過之後多出來的成本會轉嫁到平台或者消費者或者是店家的身上那他怕說這樣子的情況下因為下單的人意願低了\n\n24\n00:08:15,114 --> 00:08:35,953\n外送員可能就接不到單那店家也會賺不到錢那最後就是就是會影響到這個外送產業的一個就是會打擊到或者是沒落那這個都是一個連動的一個影響那是不是我們應該要去針對這三個族群去做一個很確切的一個民意調查\n\n25\n00:08:36,974 --> 00:08:55,433\n掌握真實的民意因為畢竟我覺得這個法令實施之後你要再來修改也是會需要很長時間我們的討論的過程一定會把各方的意見都納入這個委員您放心我們在討論的過程各方的意見都會納入但我看這兩篇報導都是把成本增加\n\n26\n00:08:56,354 --> 00:09:15,112\n作為前提但成本不一定是增加成本不一定是增加我們只是針對透明化就是你該怎麼計價透明化這個跟成本的增加或減少是沒有關係的所以我覺得有一些訊息是錯誤的刻意給店家這樣的訊息如果成本增加如果到你身上怎麼辦用這個前提這是不對的設定\n\n27\n00:09:16,118 --> 00:09:31,829\n是是好那在這邊最後還是就是要建議我們交通部這邊就是真的一個法令的一個修正要實施我們不要說實施的引起民怨我們才再來要再修改我覺得這樣子都會造成傷害了當然好謝謝謝謝召委謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n591\t3279\t謝謝主席 請主席邀請陳部長交通部陳部長\n12950\t30405\t部長早我們看到交通部在9號有預告就是這個外送平台機車運送運價就是這個外送費的修正法規草案那是不是請部長先簡單說明一下就是說要修訂這樣子一個草案的緣由是基於什麼樣的\n32306\t51972\t因為這個產業是新興的產業那在台灣我相信每一個人大部分的生活都會受到他的影響或者受到他的幫助那這個產業到了現在當然有各個方面一方面是消費者一方面是外送員那還有店家那當然也還有企業就是產業面的部分那其實關係到的範圍蠻大的\n54733\t81763\t那有很多的聲音跟包括立法院相當多的委員希望說這個部分是不是政府可以多一些的管理對於消費者的權益也可以保障那對於勞工的權益也可以保障那不過這個部分大家討論完之後認為說有一個很重要的必須由交通部來推行的就是運價透明化這個部分因為畢竟我們這個行業它主要是在送貨那個貨是食物啦送食物送貨\n82583\t109734\t那有很多的單位都希望說交通部是不是可以把這個運駕透明化的這個制定方向先把它拿出來先把它拿出來那這個部分交通部這陣子就在研擬這件事情我們希望透明化那希望有一個公式那這個公式由各方一起來達成協議就是我剛剛講的產業就是公司Uber平台平台業者那一方面是外送的工會外送員的工會那一方面是消費者\n110154\t120010\t所以我們也特別拜訪了消費者基金會那之後的會議也會邀請他們來參加那地方政府以及公路局未來也會一起來制定整個運費的公式\n122276\t145070\t是好那就是剛剛部長有講到一個重點就是這個運費的透明化所以應該就是一個很重要的問題應該就是這個運費的一個透明化的問題那我們也看到就是這個全國外送產業工會的理事長他在日前受訪的時候他也有很明確的講出來就是說這個外送平台在2021年前就是運價都有詳細的計算公式\n148832\t176273\t那在2021年4月之後那這個計費的公式就不公開所以讓外送員的收入減少5到7成不等那就是約略估算就是之前他們可能一個單收入可以60元可是在4月之後他們可能就只就是減到剩40元甚至剩24元那這樣子真的是好像變相的砍心所以當然就是說我們也要保重這個外送員的他的一個權益\n178254\t194190\t所以對於這樣子的一個就是修正草案那也引起了很多的一個討論那我們看到就是說在我們9號公告之後那網路的媒體Yahoo就是也做了一個就是民意調查\n195391\t214983\t就是在10月11跟10月15他有做了一個投票那他也有去做這樣子的一個訪問那對於這是說外送運費的一個修法準則支持度還算蠻高的就是也都應該都是有支持這樣子的一個修法的一個方向\n216143\t242159\t第二個問題那就是說如果說未來運價準則就是它的費用可能會調漲的話那是不是還會點外送可是就有高達55的這個比例不會再點那先請教部長你認為這樣子的一個民調可信度如何我覺得他的題目第一題或許比較正常但第二題我認為這個有引導性就是有陷阱\n242919\t254463\t對他就說如果外送將那個運費將調漲60到85元等等對那這個部分其實是有些引導對那就是事實上是會調漲60到85還是說會調漲到60至85那是不是就差很多\n259725\t286676\t是 而且報告委員其實我們現在整個修法的方向主要是針對透明化的機制的部分我們在做討論但是運價不一定會上漲喔運價不一定會上漲因為未來各方所討論出來制定的那個運價制定出來之後我們只有制定上限沒有制定下限當我們上限訂出來代表什麼代表它的運價不可以超過我們規定的上限但\n287096\t298980\t要往下例如說現在很多人我時常在用Uber Eats我是用免運費的那個方案未來廠商可不可以繼續用免運費當然可以他可以繼續用免運費這個沒有問題所以沒有那種調漲60到85元這個議題並不存在\n303903\t313794\t所以這是假議題我認為是假議題所以我覺得很重要我覺得這樣子的話可能就是會讓很多人誤解那因為我也看到一份報導這是一個媒體的一個關鍵一個評論的媒體他也說就是這樣子的一個訊息出來之後\n320982\t338707\t消基會也表示反對那我不曉得說這方面您找到的...報告委員這個部分應該是有一些誤解消基會所聽到的消息是調漲但我剛剛也跟委員報告過我們這次沒有要做任何調漲的討論我們只有針對機制的透明化做討論\n340747\t370027\t討論出來的那個機制他不一定是調漲有可能大家因為到時候消基會也會是討論的一方他們也會加入討論的一方所以消費者的權益一定會得到保障他不一定就是一定調漲那消基會得到的訊息可能是片面的事後我們有跟消基會做溝通那局長也特別去拜訪過消基會的董事長他們聽完之後他們也認為說透明化對於消費者的權益保障應該是有幫助的所以他們也支持透明化這個方案\n370447\t373008\t是 可是就是說當然這是剛剛部長回答的啦可是如果說看我們針對這個目前公告的這個修法的一個方向啊內容就是有提到說在幾種情況下可以加收等待費、樓層費、夜間加成費、春節運費等等\n390174\t403893\t加收這樣子的話就是等於就是真的會漲啊報告委員這個裡面是得啦你可以把這個當作計價方案但也可以不把它當作計價方案可以討論這是可以討論的所以我說過\n406657\t432313\t這一次我們的討論重點是放在透明化的機制透明化的機制運價透明化的機制那至於運價透明化裡面該包含哪些內容目前還在討論階段我們下禮拜三會有一個座談會邀集了消機會邀集了這個平台業者邀集了外送員工會大家一起來討論未來可能的計價機制那現在的狀況是這樣現在是沒有把這些放進去但\n432853\t462177\t到底消費者所承受的運價是多少目前是沒人知道的送的那個人不知道付錢的那個人也不知道這是目前大家遇到的問題是 所以本席在這邊也希望就是說我們在修正這樣子一個法案可能會影響的也就是聯動的就是三方嘛平台、消費者還有店家所以這個也是非常的重要所以我們是不是也有可能去做一個民調就是針對外送員的族群去做一個\n463318\t476254\t民意調查消費者也做民意調查還有店家也做民意調查對他們所擔心的疑慮因為我們看到媒體的報導包括店家他們也擔心就是說這個外送平台這樣一個新興的產業這樣子的一個供應鏈\n479318\t491470\t也讓他們的訂單有增加三成左右可是他也擔心說這個新制通過之後多出來的成本會轉嫁到平台或者消費者或者是店家的身上那他怕說這樣子的情況下因為下單的人意願低了\n495114\t515953\t外送員可能就接不到單那店家也會賺不到錢那最後就是就是會影響到這個外送產業的一個就是會打擊到或者是沒落那這個都是一個連動的一個影響那是不是我們應該要去針對這三個族群去做一個很確切的一個民意調查\n516974\t535433\t掌握真實的民意因為畢竟我覺得這個法令實施之後你要再來修改也是會需要很長時間我們的討論的過程一定會把各方的意見都納入這個委員您放心我們在討論的過程各方的意見都會納入但我看這兩篇報導都是把成本增加\n536354\t555112\t作為前提但成本不一定是增加成本不一定是增加我們只是針對透明化就是你該怎麼計價透明化這個跟成本的增加或減少是沒有關係的所以我覺得有一些訊息是錯誤的刻意給店家這樣的訊息如果成本增加如果到你身上怎麼辦用這個前提這是不對的設定\n556118\t571829\t是是好那在這邊最後還是就是要建議我們交通部這邊就是真的一個法令的一個修正要實施我們不要說實施的引起民怨我們才再來要再修改我覺得這樣子都會造成傷害了當然好謝謝謝謝召委謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 請主席邀請陳部長交通部陳部長\n部長早我們看到交通部在9號有預告就是這個外送平台機車運送運價就是這個外送費的修正法規草案那是不是請部長先簡單說明一下就是說要修訂這樣子一個草案的緣由是基於什麼樣的\n因為這個產業是新興的產業那在台灣我相信每一個人大部分的生活都會受到他的影響或者受到他的幫助那這個產業到了現在當然有各個方面一方面是消費者一方面是外送員那還有店家那當然也還有企業就是產業面的部分那其實關係到的範圍蠻大的\n那有很多的聲音跟包括立法院相當多的委員希望說這個部分是不是政府可以多一些的管理對於消費者的權益也可以保障那對於勞工的權益也可以保障那不過這個部分大家討論完之後認為說有一個很重要的必須由交通部來推行的就是運價透明化這個部分因為畢竟我們這個行業它主要是在送貨那個貨是食物啦送食物送貨\n那有很多的單位都希望說交通部是不是可以把這個運駕透明化的這個制定方向先把它拿出來先把它拿出來那這個部分交通部這陣子就在研擬這件事情我們希望透明化那希望有一個公式那這個公式由各方一起來達成協議就是我剛剛講的產業就是公司Uber平台平台業者那一方面是外送的工會外送員的工會那一方面是消費者\n所以我們也特別拜訪了消費者基金會那之後的會議也會邀請他們來參加那地方政府以及公路局未來也會一起來制定整個運費的公式\n是好那就是剛剛部長有講到一個重點就是這個運費的透明化所以應該就是一個很重要的問題應該就是這個運費的一個透明化的問題那我們也看到就是這個全國外送產業工會的理事長他在日前受訪的時候他也有很明確的講出來就是說這個外送平台在2021年前就是運價都有詳細的計算公式\n那在2021年4月之後那這個計費的公式就不公開所以讓外送員的收入減少5到7成不等那就是約略估算就是之前他們可能一個單收入可以60元可是在4月之後他們可能就只就是減到剩40元甚至剩24元那這樣子真的是好像變相的砍心所以當然就是說我們也要保重這個外送員的他的一個權益\n所以對於這樣子的一個就是修正草案那也引起了很多的一個討論那我們看到就是說在我們9號公告之後那網路的媒體Yahoo就是也做了一個就是民意調查\n就是在10月11跟10月15他有做了一個投票那他也有去做這樣子的一個訪問那對於這是說外送運費的一個修法準則支持度還算蠻高的就是也都應該都是有支持這樣子的一個修法的一個方向\n第二個問題那就是說如果說未來運價準則就是它的費用可能會調漲的話那是不是還會點外送可是就有高達55的這個比例不會再點那先請教部長你認為這樣子的一個民調可信度如何我覺得他的題目第一題或許比較正常但第二題我認為這個有引導性就是有陷阱\n對他就說如果外送將那個運費將調漲60到85元等等對那這個部分其實是有些引導對那就是事實上是會調漲60到85還是說會調漲到60至85那是不是就差很多\n是 而且報告委員其實我們現在整個修法的方向主要是針對透明化的機制的部分我們在做討論但是運價不一定會上漲喔運價不一定會上漲因為未來各方所討論出來制定的那個運價制定出來之後我們只有制定上限沒有制定下限當我們上限訂出來代表什麼代表它的運價不可以超過我們規定的上限但\n要往下例如說現在很多人我時常在用Uber Eats我是用免運費的那個方案未來廠商可不可以繼續用免運費當然可以他可以繼續用免運費這個沒有問題所以沒有那種調漲60到85元這個議題並不存在\n所以這是假議題我認為是假議題所以我覺得很重要我覺得這樣子的話可能就是會讓很多人誤解那因為我也看到一份報導這是一個媒體的一個關鍵一個評論的媒體他也說就是這樣子的一個訊息出來之後\n消基會也表示反對那我不曉得說這方面您找到的...報告委員這個部分應該是有一些誤解消基會所聽到的消息是調漲但我剛剛也跟委員報告過我們這次沒有要做任何調漲的討論我們只有針對機制的透明化做討論\n討論出來的那個機制他不一定是調漲有可能大家因為到時候消基會也會是討論的一方他們也會加入討論的一方所以消費者的權益一定會得到保障他不一定就是一定調漲那消基會得到的訊息可能是片面的事後我們有跟消基會做溝通那局長也特別去拜訪過消基會的董事長他們聽完之後他們也認為說透明化對於消費者的權益保障應該是有幫助的所以他們也支持透明化這個方案\n是 可是就是說當然這是剛剛部長回答的啦可是如果說看我們針對這個目前公告的這個修法的一個方向啊內容就是有提到說在幾種情況下可以加收等待費、樓層費、夜間加成費、春節運費等等\n加收這樣子的話就是等於就是真的會漲啊報告委員這個裡面是得啦你可以把這個當作計價方案但也可以不把它當作計價方案可以討論這是可以討論的所以我說過\n這一次我們的討論重點是放在透明化的機制透明化的機制運價透明化的機制那至於運價透明化裡面該包含哪些內容目前還在討論階段我們下禮拜三會有一個座談會邀集了消機會邀集了這個平台業者邀集了外送員工會大家一起來討論未來可能的計價機制那現在的狀況是這樣現在是沒有把這些放進去但\n到底消費者所承受的運價是多少目前是沒人知道的送的那個人不知道付錢的那個人也不知道這是目前大家遇到的問題是 所以本席在這邊也希望就是說我們在修正這樣子一個法案可能會影響的也就是聯動的就是三方嘛平台、消費者還有店家所以這個也是非常的重要所以我們是不是也有可能去做一個民調就是針對外送員的族群去做一個\n民意調查消費者也做民意調查還有店家也做民意調查對他們所擔心的疑慮因為我們看到媒體的報導包括店家他們也擔心就是說這個外送平台這樣一個新興的產業這樣子的一個供應鏈\n也讓他們的訂單有增加三成左右可是他也擔心說這個新制通過之後多出來的成本會轉嫁到平台或者消費者或者是店家的身上那他怕說這樣子的情況下因為下單的人意願低了\n外送員可能就接不到單那店家也會賺不到錢那最後就是就是會影響到這個外送產業的一個就是會打擊到或者是沒落那這個都是一個連動的一個影響那是不是我們應該要去針對這三個族群去做一個很確切的一個民意調查\n掌握真實的民意因為畢竟我覺得這個法令實施之後你要再來修改也是會需要很長時間我們的討論的過程一定會把各方的意見都納入這個委員您放心我們在討論的過程各方的意見都會納入但我看這兩篇報導都是把成本增加\n作為前提但成本不一定是增加成本不一定是增加我們只是針對透明化就是你該怎麼計價透明化這個跟成本的增加或減少是沒有關係的所以我覺得有一些訊息是錯誤的刻意給店家這樣的訊息如果成本增加如果到你身上怎麼辦用這個前提這是不對的設定\n是是好那在這邊最後還是就是要建議我們交通部這邊就是真的一個法令的一個修正要實施我們不要說實施的引起民怨我們才再來要再修改我覺得這樣子都會造成傷害了當然好謝謝謝謝召委謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.591 --> 00:03.279\n謝謝主席請主席邀請陳部長交通部陳部長\n\n00:12.950 --> 00:30.405\n部長早我們看到交通部在9號有預告就是這個外送平台機車運送運價就是這個外送費的修正法規草案那是不是請部長先簡單說明一下就是說要修訂這樣子一個草案的緣由是基於什麼樣的\n\n00:32.306 --> 00:51.972\n因為這個產業是新興的產業那在台灣我相信每一個人大部分的生活都會受到他的影響或者受到他的幫助那這個產業到了現在當然有各個方面一方面是消費者一方面是外送員那還有店家那當然也還有企業就是產業面的部分那其實關係到的範圍蠻大的\n\n00:54.733 --> 01:21.763\n那有很多的聲音跟包括立法院相當多的委員希望說這個部分是不是政府可以多一些的管理對於消費者的權益也可以保障那對於勞工的權益也可以保障那不過這個部分大家討論完之後認為說有一個很重要的必須由交通部來推行的就是運價透明化這個部分因為畢竟我們這個行業它主要是在送貨那個貨是食物啦送食物送貨\n\n01:22.583 --> 01:49.734\n那有很多的單位都希望說交通部是不是可以把這個運駕透明化的這個制定方向先把它拿出來先把它拿出來那這個部分交通部這陣子就在研擬這件事情我們希望透明化那希望有一個公式那這個公式由各方一起來達成協議就是我剛剛講的產業就是公司Uber平台平台業者那一方面是外送的工會外送員的工會那一方面是消費者\n\n01:50.154 --> 02:00.010\n所以我們也特別拜訪了消費者基金會那之後的會議也會邀請他們來參加那地方政府以及公路局未來也會一起來制定整個運費的公式\n\n02:02.276 --> 02:25.070\n是好那就是剛剛部長有講到一個重點就是這個運費的透明化所以應該就是一個很重要的問題應該就是這個運費的一個透明化的問題那我們也看到就是這個全國外送產業工會的理事長他在日前受訪的時候他也有很明確的講出來就是說這個外送平台在2021年前就是運價都有詳細的計算公式\n\n02:28.832 --> 02:56.273\n那在2021年4月之後那這個計費的公式就不公開所以讓外送員的收入減少5到7成不等那就是約略估算就是之前他們可能一個單收入可以60元可是在4月之後他們可能就只就是減到剩40元甚至剩24元那這樣子真的是好像變相的砍心所以當然就是說我們也要保重這個外送員的他的一個權益\n\n02:58.254 --> 03:14.190\n所以對於這樣子的一個就是修正草案那也引起了很多的一個討論那我們看到就是說在我們9號公告之後那網路的媒體Yahoo就是也做了一個就是民意調查\n\n03:15.391 --> 03:34.983\n就是在10月11跟10月15他有做了一個投票那他也有去做這樣子的一個訪問那對於這是說外送運費的一個修法準則支持度還算蠻高的就是也都應該都是有支持這樣子的一個修法的一個方向\n\n03:36.143 --> 04:02.159\n第二個問題那就是說如果說未來運價準則就是它的費用可能會調漲的話那是不是還會點外送可是就有高達55的這個比例不會再點那先請教部長你認為這樣子的一個民調可信度如何我覺得他的題目第一題或許比較正常但第二題我認為這個有引導性就是有陷阱\n\n04:02.919 --> 04:14.463\n對他就說如果外送將那個運費將調漲60到85元等等對那這個部分其實是有些引導對那就是事實上是會調漲60到85還是說會調漲到60至85那是不是就差很多\n\n04:19.725 --> 04:46.676\n是而且報告委員其實我們現在整個修法的方向主要是針對透明化的機制的部分我們在做討論但是運價不一定會上漲喔運價不一定會上漲因為未來各方所討論出來制定的那個運價制定出來之後我們只有制定上限沒有制定下限當我們上限訂出來代表什麼代表它的運價不可以超過我們規定的上限但\n\n04:47.096 --> 04:58.980\n要往下例如說現在很多人我時常在用UberEats我是用免運費的那個方案未來廠商可不可以繼續用免運費當然可以他可以繼續用免運費這個沒有問題所以沒有那種調漲60到85元這個議題並不存在\n\n05:03.903 --> 05:13.794\n所以這是假議題我認為是假議題所以我覺得很重要我覺得這樣子的話可能就是會讓很多人誤解那因為我也看到一份報導這是一個媒體的一個關鍵一個評論的媒體他也說就是這樣子的一個訊息出來之後\n\n05:20.982 --> 05:38.707\n消基會也表示反對那我不曉得說這方面您找到的...報告委員這個部分應該是有一些誤解消基會所聽到的消息是調漲但我剛剛也跟委員報告過我們這次沒有要做任何調漲的討論我們只有針對機制的透明化做討論\n\n05:40.747 --> 06:10.027\n討論出來的那個機制他不一定是調漲有可能大家因為到時候消基會也會是討論的一方他們也會加入討論的一方所以消費者的權益一定會得到保障他不一定就是一定調漲那消基會得到的訊息可能是片面的事後我們有跟消基會做溝通那局長也特別去拜訪過消基會的董事長他們聽完之後他們也認為說透明化對於消費者的權益保障應該是有幫助的所以他們也支持透明化這個方案\n\n06:10.447 --> 06:13.008\n是可是就是說當然這是剛剛部長回答的啦可是如果說看我們針對這個目前公告的這個修法的一個方向啊內容就是有提到說在幾種情況下可以加收等待費、樓層費、夜間加成費、春節運費等等\n\n06:30.174 --> 06:43.893\n加收這樣子的話就是等於就是真的會漲啊報告委員這個裡面是得啦你可以把這個當作計價方案但也可以不把它當作計價方案可以討論這是可以討論的所以我說過\n\n06:46.657 --> 07:12.313\n這一次我們的討論重點是放在透明化的機制透明化的機制運價透明化的機制那至於運價透明化裡面該包含哪些內容目前還在討論階段我們下禮拜三會有一個座談會邀集了消機會邀集了這個平台業者邀集了外送員工會大家一起來討論未來可能的計價機制那現在的狀況是這樣現在是沒有把這些放進去但\n\n07:12.853 --> 07:42.177\n到底消費者所承受的運價是多少目前是沒人知道的送的那個人不知道付錢的那個人也不知道這是目前大家遇到的問題是所以本席在這邊也希望就是說我們在修正這樣子一個法案可能會影響的也就是聯動的就是三方嘛平台、消費者還有店家所以這個也是非常的重要所以我們是不是也有可能去做一個民調就是針對外送員的族群去做一個\n\n07:43.318 --> 07:56.254\n民意調查消費者也做民意調查還有店家也做民意調查對他們所擔心的疑慮因為我們看到媒體的報導包括店家他們也擔心就是說這個外送平台這樣一個新興的產業這樣子的一個供應鏈\n\n07:59.318 --> 08:11.470\n也讓他們的訂單有增加三成左右可是他也擔心說這個新制通過之後多出來的成本會轉嫁到平台或者消費者或者是店家的身上那他怕說這樣子的情況下因為下單的人意願低了\n\n08:15.114 --> 08:35.953\n外送員可能就接不到單那店家也會賺不到錢那最後就是就是會影響到這個外送產業的一個就是會打擊到或者是沒落那這個都是一個連動的一個影響那是不是我們應該要去針對這三個族群去做一個很確切的一個民意調查\n\n08:36.974 --> 08:55.433\n掌握真實的民意因為畢竟我覺得這個法令實施之後你要再來修改也是會需要很長時間我們的討論的過程一定會把各方的意見都納入這個委員您放心我們在討論的過程各方的意見都會納入但我看這兩篇報導都是把成本增加\n\n08:56.354 --> 09:15.112\n作為前提但成本不一定是增加成本不一定是增加我們只是針對透明化就是你該怎麼計價透明化這個跟成本的增加或減少是沒有關係的所以我覺得有一些訊息是錯誤的刻意給店家這樣的訊息如果成本增加如果到你身上怎麼辦用這個前提這是不對的設定\n\n09:16.118 --> 09:31.829\n是是好那在這邊最後還是就是要建議我們交通部這邊就是真的一個法令的一個修正要實施我們不要說實施的引起民怨我們才再來要再修改我覺得這樣子都會造成傷害了當然好謝謝謝謝召委謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.591,"end":3.279,"text":"謝謝主席 請主席邀請陳部長交通部陳部長"},{"start":12.95,"end":30.405,"text":"部長早我們看到交通部在9號有預告就是這個外送平台機車運送運價就是這個外送費的修正法規草案那是不是請部長先簡單說明一下就是說要修訂這樣子一個草案的緣由是基於什麼樣的"},{"start":32.306,"end":51.972,"text":"因為這個產業是新興的產業那在台灣我相信每一個人大部分的生活都會受到他的影響或者受到他的幫助那這個產業到了現在當然有各個方面一方面是消費者一方面是外送員那還有店家那當然也還有企業就是產業面的部分那其實關係到的範圍蠻大的"},{"start":54.733,"end":81.763,"text":"那有很多的聲音跟包括立法院相當多的委員希望說這個部分是不是政府可以多一些的管理對於消費者的權益也可以保障那對於勞工的權益也可以保障那不過這個部分大家討論完之後認為說有一個很重要的必須由交通部來推行的就是運價透明化這個部分因為畢竟我們這個行業它主要是在送貨那個貨是食物啦送食物送貨"},{"start":82.583,"end":109.734,"text":"那有很多的單位都希望說交通部是不是可以把這個運駕透明化的這個制定方向先把它拿出來先把它拿出來那這個部分交通部這陣子就在研擬這件事情我們希望透明化那希望有一個公式那這個公式由各方一起來達成協議就是我剛剛講的產業就是公司Uber平台平台業者那一方面是外送的工會外送員的工會那一方面是消費者"},{"start":110.154,"end":120.01,"text":"所以我們也特別拜訪了消費者基金會那之後的會議也會邀請他們來參加那地方政府以及公路局未來也會一起來制定整個運費的公式"},{"start":122.276,"end":145.07,"text":"是好那就是剛剛部長有講到一個重點就是這個運費的透明化所以應該就是一個很重要的問題應該就是這個運費的一個透明化的問題那我們也看到就是這個全國外送產業工會的理事長他在日前受訪的時候他也有很明確的講出來就是說這個外送平台在2021年前就是運價都有詳細的計算公式"},{"start":148.832,"end":176.273,"text":"那在2021年4月之後那這個計費的公式就不公開所以讓外送員的收入減少5到7成不等那就是約略估算就是之前他們可能一個單收入可以60元可是在4月之後他們可能就只就是減到剩40元甚至剩24元那這樣子真的是好像變相的砍心所以當然就是說我們也要保重這個外送員的他的一個權益"},{"start":178.254,"end":194.19,"text":"所以對於這樣子的一個就是修正草案那也引起了很多的一個討論那我們看到就是說在我們9號公告之後那網路的媒體Yahoo就是也做了一個就是民意調查"},{"start":195.391,"end":214.983,"text":"就是在10月11跟10月15他有做了一個投票那他也有去做這樣子的一個訪問那對於這是說外送運費的一個修法準則支持度還算蠻高的就是也都應該都是有支持這樣子的一個修法的一個方向"},{"start":216.143,"end":242.159,"text":"第二個問題那就是說如果說未來運價準則就是它的費用可能會調漲的話那是不是還會點外送可是就有高達55的這個比例不會再點那先請教部長你認為這樣子的一個民調可信度如何我覺得他的題目第一題或許比較正常但第二題我認為這個有引導性就是有陷阱"},{"start":242.919,"end":254.463,"text":"對他就說如果外送將那個運費將調漲60到85元等等對那這個部分其實是有些引導對那就是事實上是會調漲60到85還是說會調漲到60至85那是不是就差很多"},{"start":259.725,"end":286.676,"text":"是 而且報告委員其實我們現在整個修法的方向主要是針對透明化的機制的部分我們在做討論但是運價不一定會上漲喔運價不一定會上漲因為未來各方所討論出來制定的那個運價制定出來之後我們只有制定上限沒有制定下限當我們上限訂出來代表什麼代表它的運價不可以超過我們規定的上限但"},{"start":287.096,"end":298.98,"text":"要往下例如說現在很多人我時常在用Uber Eats我是用免運費的那個方案未來廠商可不可以繼續用免運費當然可以他可以繼續用免運費這個沒有問題所以沒有那種調漲60到85元這個議題並不存在"},{"start":303.903,"end":313.794,"text":"所以這是假議題我認為是假議題所以我覺得很重要我覺得這樣子的話可能就是會讓很多人誤解那因為我也看到一份報導這是一個媒體的一個關鍵一個評論的媒體他也說就是這樣子的一個訊息出來之後"},{"start":320.982,"end":338.707,"text":"消基會也表示反對那我不曉得說這方面您找到的...報告委員這個部分應該是有一些誤解消基會所聽到的消息是調漲但我剛剛也跟委員報告過我們這次沒有要做任何調漲的討論我們只有針對機制的透明化做討論"},{"start":340.747,"end":370.027,"text":"討論出來的那個機制他不一定是調漲有可能大家因為到時候消基會也會是討論的一方他們也會加入討論的一方所以消費者的權益一定會得到保障他不一定就是一定調漲那消基會得到的訊息可能是片面的事後我們有跟消基會做溝通那局長也特別去拜訪過消基會的董事長他們聽完之後他們也認為說透明化對於消費者的權益保障應該是有幫助的所以他們也支持透明化這個方案"},{"start":370.447,"end":373.008,"text":"是 可是就是說當然這是剛剛部長回答的啦可是如果說看我們針對這個目前公告的這個修法的一個方向啊內容就是有提到說在幾種情況下可以加收等待費、樓層費、夜間加成費、春節運費等等"},{"start":390.174,"end":403.893,"text":"加收這樣子的話就是等於就是真的會漲啊報告委員這個裡面是得啦你可以把這個當作計價方案但也可以不把它當作計價方案可以討論這是可以討論的所以我說過"},{"start":406.657,"end":432.313,"text":"這一次我們的討論重點是放在透明化的機制透明化的機制運價透明化的機制那至於運價透明化裡面該包含哪些內容目前還在討論階段我們下禮拜三會有一個座談會邀集了消機會邀集了這個平台業者邀集了外送員工會大家一起來討論未來可能的計價機制那現在的狀況是這樣現在是沒有把這些放進去但"},{"start":432.853,"end":462.177,"text":"到底消費者所承受的運價是多少目前是沒人知道的送的那個人不知道付錢的那個人也不知道這是目前大家遇到的問題是 所以本席在這邊也希望就是說我們在修正這樣子一個法案可能會影響的也就是聯動的就是三方嘛平台、消費者還有店家所以這個也是非常的重要所以我們是不是也有可能去做一個民調就是針對外送員的族群去做一個"},{"start":463.318,"end":476.254,"text":"民意調查消費者也做民意調查還有店家也做民意調查對他們所擔心的疑慮因為我們看到媒體的報導包括店家他們也擔心就是說這個外送平台這樣一個新興的產業這樣子的一個供應鏈"},{"start":479.318,"end":491.47,"text":"也讓他們的訂單有增加三成左右可是他也擔心說這個新制通過之後多出來的成本會轉嫁到平台或者消費者或者是店家的身上那他怕說這樣子的情況下因為下單的人意願低了"},{"start":495.114,"end":515.953,"text":"外送員可能就接不到單那店家也會賺不到錢那最後就是就是會影響到這個外送產業的一個就是會打擊到或者是沒落那這個都是一個連動的一個影響那是不是我們應該要去針對這三個族群去做一個很確切的一個民意調查"},{"start":516.974,"end":535.433,"text":"掌握真實的民意因為畢竟我覺得這個法令實施之後你要再來修改也是會需要很長時間我們的討論的過程一定會把各方的意見都納入這個委員您放心我們在討論的過程各方的意見都會納入但我看這兩篇報導都是把成本增加"},{"start":536.354,"end":555.112,"text":"作為前提但成本不一定是增加成本不一定是增加我們只是針對透明化就是你該怎麼計價透明化這個跟成本的增加或減少是沒有關係的所以我覺得有一些訊息是錯誤的刻意給店家這樣的訊息如果成本增加如果到你身上怎麼辦用這個前提這是不對的設定"},{"start":556.118,"end":571.829,"text":"是是好那在這邊最後還是就是要建議我們交通部這邊就是真的一個法令的一個修正要實施我們不要說實施的引起民怨我們才再來要再修改我覺得這樣子都會造成傷害了當然好謝謝謝謝召委謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":494,"blocks":[["陳委員素月：（11時35分）謝謝主席，請主席邀請陳部長。"],["主席：請交通部陳部長。"],["陳委員素月：部長早。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["陳委員素月：我們看到交通部在9日預告外送平台機車運送運價，也就是外送費的修正法規草案，是不是請部長先簡單說明一下要修訂這個草案的緣由、是基於什麼樣的原因？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，因為這個產業是新興產業，在臺灣，我相信每一個人的大部分生活都會受到它的影響或受到它的幫助。而這個產業到了現在當然有各個方面的反映，一方面是消費者、一方面是外送員，還有店家，當然還有企業，也就是產業面，其實關係到的範圍滿大的。有很多聲音、包括立法院相當多委員都希望政府在這部分可以多一些管理，對於消費者權益可以保障，對於勞工的權益也可以保障。不過大家討論完之後認為有一點很重要、必須由交通部推行，就是運價透明化這個部分，畢竟這個行業主要是貨運、送的是貨，只是那個貨是食物啦！因為是送食物、送貨，有很多單位都希望交通部把運價透明化的制定方向先拿出來，所以交通部這一陣子就在研擬這件事情。我們希望透明化、希望有一個公式，而這個公式由各方一起達成協議，就是我剛剛講的產業、公司如Uber等平臺業者，一方面是外送員工會，一方面是消費者。所以我們特別拜訪了消費者基金會，之後的會議也會邀請他們來參加，地方政府和公路局未來也會一起制定整個運費公式。"],["陳委員素月：剛剛部長講到一個重點，就是運費的透明化，應該代表很重要的就是運費透明化問題。我們也看到全國外送產業工會理事長日前受訪的時候也很明確地講出來，就是外送平臺運價在2021年以前都有詳細的計算公式，但2021年4月之後這個計費公式就不公開，所以讓外送員的收入減少五到七成不等。約略估算，之前他們一張單可以收入60元，可是在2021年4月之後可能就減到剩40元、甚至剩24元，這樣真的好像是變相砍薪啦！我們當然也要保障外送員的權益嘛！所以這樣的修正草案也引起很多討論。"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["陳委員素月：我們也看到在9日公告之後，網路媒體Yahoo做了民意調查，在10月11日跟10月15日辦了投票，也做了訪問，結果對於外送運費修法準則，支持度還算滿高的啦！應該都支持這樣的修法方向。第二個問題是如果未來因應運價準則費用可能調漲的話，是不是還會點外送？就有高達55%的比例不會再點。先請教部長，你認為這樣的民調可信度如何？"],["陳部長世凱：我覺得題目中的第一題或許比較正常，但第二題我認為有引導性。"],["陳委員素月：就是有陷阱？"],["陳部長世凱：對，因為它提及如果外送運費將調漲60元到85元等等，這部分其實有些引導意味。"],["陳委員素月：事實上是調漲60元到85元，還是會調漲到60元至85元，這裡是不是就差很多？我是說問法。"],["陳部長世凱：是。而且報告委員，其實現在整個修法方向主要是針對透明化機制這部分討論，運價不一定會上漲喔！運價不一定會上漲！因為未來各方討論出來、運價公式制定出來之後只制定上限，沒有制定下限。把上限訂出來代表什麼？代表運價不可以超過我們所規定的上限，但如果要往下，例如現在很多人時常用Uber Eats，使用的又是免運費方案，那麼未來廠商可不可以繼續用免運費方案？當然可以，它可以繼續免運費，這個沒有問題，所以沒有那種調漲60元到85元的前提，這個議題並不存在。"],["陳委員素月：所以這是假議題？"],["陳部長世凱：我認為是假議題，至少我目前看……"],["陳委員素月：這點很重要啊！因為這樣可能會讓很多人誤解。","我也看到一份報導，來自一家評論媒體，它說這樣的訊息出來之後，消基會也表示反對。不曉得對這方面您掌握得……"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，這個部分應該是有一些誤解，消基會所聽到的消息是調漲，但我剛剛也跟委員報告過，我們這次沒有要作任何調漲的討論，只針對機制的透明化作討論。討論出來那個機制不一定是調漲，也有可能在大家討論後……因為到時候消基會也會是討論的一方、他們也會加入討論的一方，所以消費者的權益一定會得到保障，不是一定會調漲，消基會得到的訊息可能是片面的。我們事後有跟消基會溝通，局長也特別去拜訪過消基會的董事長，他們聽完之後也認為透明化對於消費者的權益保障應該是有幫助的，所以他們也支持透明化這個方案。"],["陳委員素月：當然剛剛部長回答的是這樣，可是我看了目前公告的修法方向、內容，提到在幾種情況下可以加收等待費、樓層費、夜間加成費、春節運費等等。如果是「加收」，這樣的話就等於真的會漲啊！"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，這裡面用的是「得」啦！代表可以把這個當作計價方案，但也可以不把它當作計價方案，可以討論！這是可以討論的。所以我說過，我們這次的討論重點放在透明化的機制，運價透明化的機制，至於運價透明化裡面該包含哪些內容，目前還在討論階段，我們下禮拜三會有一個座談會，邀集了消基會、平臺業者與外送員工會，大家一起來討論未來可能的計價機制。目前的狀況是這樣，現在是沒有把這些放進去，但到底消費者所承受的運價是多少，目前是沒人知道的，送的那個人不知道，付錢的那個人也不知道，這是目前大家遇到的問題。"],["陳委員素月：所以本席在這邊也希望，我們在修正這樣的一個法案，可能會影響的都是連動的，就是三方，包括平臺、消費者，還有店家。這個也是非常重要，所以我們是不是也有可能去做一個民調，就是針對外送員的族群去做一個民意調查，然後消費者也做一個民意調查，還有店家也做一個民意調查。對於他們所擔心的疑慮，因為我們看到媒體的報導，包括店家他們也擔心，外送平臺這樣一個新興的產業、供應鏈，讓他們的訂單增加三成左右，可是他們也擔心這個新制通過之後，多出來的成本會轉嫁到平臺，或者消費者，或者是店家的身上。他們怕在這樣子的情況下，因為下單的人意願低了，外送員可能就接不到單，店家也會賺不到錢，最後會影響到外送產業，就是會受到打擊到或者是沒落。這個都是一個連動的影響，我們是不是應該要針對這三個族群，去做一個很確切的民意調查，掌握真實的民意，畢竟這個法令實施之後，你要再來修改也是需要很長的時間。"],["陳部長世凱：所以報告委員，我們的討論過程一定會把各方的意見都納入，這個委員您放心，我們在討論的過程，各方的意見都會納入，但我看這兩篇報導都是把成本增加作為前提。但成本不一定是增加的，我們只是針對透明化，就是你該怎麼計價透明化，這個跟成本的增加或減少是沒有關係的。我覺得有一些訊息是錯誤的，刻意給店家這樣的訊息，如果成本增加，如果到你身上怎麼辦？用這個為前提，這是不對的設定。"],["陳委員素月：最後還是要建議交通部，就是一個法令要修正、實施，我們不要實施了引起民怨，才再來要再修改，我覺得這樣子都會造成傷害，謝謝。"],["陳部長世凱：當然，好，謝謝召委。"],["主席：謝謝陳素月召委，接下來有請蔡其昌委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":366,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-7","speakers":["魯明哲","李昆澤","林國成","林沛祥","林俊憲","許智傑","廖先翔","徐富癸","邱若華","陳雪生","陳素月","蔡其昌","林月琴","李坤城","鍾佳濱","牛煦庭","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","賴惠員","黃健豪","羅廷瑋","羅智強","王鴻薇","何欣純","楊瓊瓔","黃捷","游顥","陳冠廷"],"page_start":289,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1139001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、公平交易委員會主任委員李鎂、數位發展部次長、勞動部次長、衛\n生福利部、經濟部、個人資料保護委員會籌備處及行政院消費者保護處就「外送平台之整併、收\n費指引、個資保護、產業發展、勞工權益及食品物流安全規範」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、\n邀請交通部公路局局長就「公路大型客貨運駕駛短缺之因應措施暨現行遊覽車評鑑制度之檢討與\n精進」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139001_00005"}}}