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00:01:13,191\n照理來講事故應該是不是理論上應該也會事實上是減少的對那大貨車的這個事故數據部長不知道有沒有掌握大貨車對大客貨車大貨車應該是真大客貨車的事故數據有沒有事故數據是在成長的好來我們就來看一下那個數據的確如部長剛剛提的就是說照理來講\n\n4\n00:01:14,071 --> 00:01:28,541\n我的觀念應該半次減少運量減少應該會減少怎麼反而數據事實上是好像顯示的不是這麼一回事像整體的大貨車裡面的數量創10年新高而且尤其是大貨車跟公車\n\n5\n00:01:29,434 --> 00:01:50,730\n造成的傷亡人數還逐步惡化112年還是創10年最高我自己本身一直在關心兒童安全那過去也對這邊比較多努力所以我對事故傷害防治跟安全議題相當重視那今年也發生了幾起事我們的大型車輛跟兒少的交通事故那大型車輛的管理問題已經成詬病的時候\n\n6\n00:01:53,206 --> 00:02:09,070\n在這邊我有幾個問題要提醒交通部首先來看一下我們的客運業勞動條件非常的差已經是眾人所知的常態每年勞動部都有勞檢以112年為例我們的處分率17.42%17.42%裡邊三層事實上是汽車客運業\n\n7\n00:02:20,139 --> 00:02:41,919\n1200場有209件那17.12可是三成都是客運業者那第一名是工作超時台灣一直在處理酒駕可是始終一直沒有處理疲勞駕駛可是除了工作超時以外那第三名事實上是休息時間不足那跟111年也都一樣就我們始終沒有去面對疲勞駕駛可是這個\n\n8\n00:02:43,646 --> 00:02:58,131\n我們的客運業者面對到的是這樣子的一個問題再來看第二個問題也就是我們的駕駛的薪資結構非常奇形我引用媒體從判決書上得到的資料會發現公車業者號稱8萬塊\n\n9\n00:03:02,353 --> 00:03:31,102\n就是說業者是可以可是三分之一事實上是加班費然後全部都是用獎金所以也意味著什麼意味著要我們的司機要搶班又搶客那就會開的速度上甚至客人在那裡站牌的時候我就要很快速的插過去然後才可以得到這些獎金因為載客量事實上是他的獎金來源那所以我不知道部長\n\n10\n00:03:32,236 --> 00:03:48,716\n你對於像這樣子的用獎金用加班費對駕駛跟業者來講這個事實上這些選項都沒有太大就好像不斷的鼓勵我們的司機要愛拚才會贏才能賺得更多不知道你對這個狀況有掌握嗎\n\n11\n00:03:50,979 --> 00:04:19,075\n有掌握那我也覺得說這個目前客運業在缺工的狀況底下勞動條件是一個很重要的一環那如果勞動條件可以提升我相信客運的這個人才會更留得住更能夠吸納所以我們一直在鼓勵說業者是不是在勞動條件的方面可以來做更好的加強那這個部分我以後也會再實施所以我覺得是不是可以要強勢一點否則的話我覺得找不到好的人人也不會進去那我也先想問部長\n\n12\n00:04:20,256 --> 00:04:27,394\n你是不是知道平建機制當中勞權的分數到底比重佔多少這個部分是不是可以\n\n13\n00:04:31,818 --> 00:04:51,202\n老全有放進來嗎因為我們其實是在基本的安全紀錄裡面他有提到就是說比如說自顧啦違規啦還有違反勞動條件所以就是說有一些部分如果說他違反一些勞動條件的話他就會變成說我來幫你回答就是先看到事實上\n\n14\n00:04:51,963 --> 00:04:52,924\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n15\n00:05:08,973 --> 00:05:28,943\n公路總局你們到底自己跟部長觀念是不是不太一樣都覺得勞權很重要可是在評鑑分數上並沒有呈現因為只佔了5%評鑑應該是以安全為主以交通部的立場大概以安全為主因為勞權的部分當然我們很重視但是勞動部的部分也會來協助這個\n\n16\n00:05:29,943 --> 00:05:56,010\n所以部長也要知道我們要好的人才有辦法事實上安全否則的話沒有辦法來我們公路局年年都去考察了可是年年退步到底出去考察應該不是去玩吧你106年就開始去考察啦你也會去看東南亞地區瞭解整個客運營運的那個狀況管理怎麼去做可是看起來10年駕駛人創新低以外可是我們大客\n\n17\n00:05:56,730 --> 00:06:24,399\n大貨客運的這樣子造成傷亡近創10年新高那你考察用意這樣子有達到嗎似乎在浪費公帑下一頁所以另外運安會也在建議說你是不是應該建立安全管理機制不過更重要應該是輔導業者設置專責單位或人來修訂評鑑的執行要點來把安全管理納入\n\n18\n00:06:25,034 --> 00:06:38,809\n一個評選的考量再來看公視已經幫你們做完功課106年的時候公視就去採訪日本的巴士業者去針對一系列的報導甚至安全制度的改革行動包含我們的產業結構不要讓它銷價競爭\n\n19\n00:06:42,152 --> 00:07:06,228\n還有管理者的整個的駕駛的管理跟訓練要確保我們的駕駛有休息的時間甚至有沒有他的工時跟休息時間能不能有一些法則來確保我們駕駛者不會過度疲勞所以我們不希望說今天人家都幫你做完功課已經openbook了你們還是無動於衷\n\n20\n00:07:07,688 --> 00:07:07,748\n委員會主席\n\n21\n00:07:28,292 --> 00:07:39,849\n甲、高薪增拚命賺獎金的問題來吸引跟留用我們高品質人才第二個是強化駕駛的勞動條件希望能夠儘速修訂公車、汽車客運業營運與服務\n\n22\n00:07:43,494 --> 00:08:04,450\n執行要點來調整檢討評鑑項目第三個是應該落實我們考察跟研究報告的建議具體提出公車客運業者的管理制度跟改革短中長期計畫我不知道部長這邊可不可以在兩個禮拜內提出書面報告是這個部分我們納入研議並且提出報告給委員好謝謝部長辛苦了\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1075\t2401\t好 主席有請部長好 陳部長\n16638\t42938\t部長我想今天這個主題大家都是針對我們的駕駛缺工跟減班、砍線的問題來希望交通部推動相關政策可是不要忘記我覺得勞權跟安全的重要性那相信部長對於駕駛人力的持續銳減的問題應該有充分掌握了不過我想問部長是我們的路線班次跟運量都縮減\n44139\t73191\t照理來講事故應該是不是理論上應該也會事實上是減少的對那大貨車的這個事故數據部長不知道有沒有掌握大貨車對大客貨車大貨車應該是真大客貨車的事故數據有沒有事故數據是在成長的好來我們就來看一下那個數據的確如部長剛剛提的就是說照理來講\n74071\t88541\t我的觀念應該半次減少運量減少應該會減少怎麼反而數據事實上是好像顯示的不是這麼一回事像整體的大貨車裡面的數量創10年新高而且尤其是大貨車跟公車\n89434\t110730\t造成的傷亡人數還逐步惡化112年還是創10年最高我自己本身一直在關心兒童安全那過去也對這邊比較多努力所以我對事故傷害防治跟安全議題相當重視那今年也發生了幾起事我們的大型車輛跟兒少的交通事故那大型車輛的管理問題已經成詬病的時候\n113206\t129070\t在這邊我有幾個問題要提醒交通部首先來看一下我們的客運業勞動條件非常的差已經是眾人所知的常態每年勞動部都有勞檢以112年為例我們的處分率17.42%17.42%裡邊三層事實上是汽車客運業\n140139\t161919\t1200場有209件那17.12可是三成都是客運業者那第一名是工作超時台灣一直在處理酒駕可是始終一直沒有處理疲勞駕駛可是除了工作超時以外那第三名事實上是休息時間不足那跟111年也都一樣就我們始終沒有去面對疲勞駕駛可是這個\n163646\t178131\t我們的客運業者面對到的是這樣子的一個問題再來看第二個問題也就是我們的駕駛的薪資結構非常奇形我引用媒體從判決書上得到的資料會發現公車業者號稱8萬塊\n182353\t211102\t就是說業者是可以可是三分之一事實上是加班費然後全部都是用獎金所以也意味著什麼意味著要我們的司機要搶班又搶客那就會開的速度上甚至客人在那裡站牌的時候我就要很快速的插過去然後才可以得到這些獎金因為載客量事實上是他的獎金來源那所以我不知道部長\n212236\t228716\t你對於像這樣子的用獎金用加班費對駕駛跟業者來講這個事實上這些選項都沒有太大就好像不斷的鼓勵我們的司機要愛拚才會贏才能賺得更多不知道你對這個狀況有掌握嗎\n230979\t259075\t有掌握那我也覺得說這個目前客運業在缺工的狀況底下勞動條件是一個很重要的一環那如果勞動條件可以提升我相信客運的這個人才會更留得住更能夠吸納所以我們一直在鼓勵說業者是不是在勞動條件的方面可以來做更好的加強那這個部分我以後也會再實施所以我覺得是不是可以要強勢一點否則的話我覺得找不到好的人人也不會進去那我也先想問部長\n260256\t267394\t你是不是知道平建機制當中勞權的分數到底比重佔多少這個部分是不是可以\n271818\t291202\t老全有放進來嗎因為我們其實是在基本的安全紀錄裡面他有提到就是說比如說自顧啦違規啦還有違反勞動條件所以就是說有一些部分如果說他違反一些勞動條件的話他就會變成說我來幫你回答就是先看到事實上\n291963\t292924\t委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n308973\t328943\t公路總局你們到底自己跟部長觀念是不是不太一樣都覺得勞權很重要可是在評鑑分數上並沒有呈現因為只佔了5%評鑑應該是以安全為主以交通部的立場大概以安全為主因為勞權的部分當然我們很重視但是勞動部的部分也會來協助這個\n329943\t356010\t所以部長也要知道我們要好的人才有辦法事實上安全否則的話沒有辦法來我們公路局年年都去考察了可是年年退步到底出去考察應該不是去玩吧你106年就開始去考察啦你也會去看東南亞地區瞭解整個客運營運的那個狀況管理怎麼去做可是看起來10年駕駛人創新低以外可是我們大客\n356730\t384399\t大貨客運的這樣子造成傷亡近創10年新高那你考察用意這樣子有達到嗎似乎在浪費公帑下一頁所以另外運安會也在建議說你是不是應該建立安全管理機制不過更重要應該是輔導業者設置專責單位或人來修訂評鑑的執行要點來把安全管理納入\n385034\t398809\t一個評選的考量再來看公視已經幫你們做完功課106年的時候公視就去採訪日本的巴士業者去針對一系列的報導甚至安全制度的改革行動包含我們的產業結構不要讓它銷價競爭\n402152\t426228\t還有管理者的整個的駕駛的管理跟訓練要確保我們的駕駛有休息的時間甚至有沒有他的工時跟休息時間能不能有一些法則來確保我們駕駛者不會過度疲勞所以我們不希望說今天人家都幫你做完功課已經open book了你們還是無動於衷\n427688\t427748\t委員會主席\n448292\t459849\t甲、高薪增拚命賺獎金的問題來吸引跟留用我們高品質人才第二個是強化駕駛的勞動條件希望能夠儘速修訂公車、汽車客運業營運與服務\n463494\t484450\t執行要點來調整檢討評鑑項目第三個是應該落實我們考察跟研究報告的建議具體提出公車客運業者的管理制度跟改革短中長期計畫我不知道部長這邊可不可以在兩個禮拜內提出書面報告是 這個部分我們納入研議並且提出報告給委員好 謝謝部長 辛苦了\n","txt":"好 主席有請部長好 陳部長\n部長我想今天這個主題大家都是針對我們的駕駛缺工跟減班、砍線的問題來希望交通部推動相關政策可是不要忘記我覺得勞權跟安全的重要性那相信部長對於駕駛人力的持續銳減的問題應該有充分掌握了不過我想問部長是我們的路線班次跟運量都縮減\n照理來講事故應該是不是理論上應該也會事實上是減少的對那大貨車的這個事故數據部長不知道有沒有掌握大貨車對大客貨車大貨車應該是真大客貨車的事故數據有沒有事故數據是在成長的好來我們就來看一下那個數據的確如部長剛剛提的就是說照理來講\n我的觀念應該半次減少運量減少應該會減少怎麼反而數據事實上是好像顯示的不是這麼一回事像整體的大貨車裡面的數量創10年新高而且尤其是大貨車跟公車\n造成的傷亡人數還逐步惡化112年還是創10年最高我自己本身一直在關心兒童安全那過去也對這邊比較多努力所以我對事故傷害防治跟安全議題相當重視那今年也發生了幾起事我們的大型車輛跟兒少的交通事故那大型車輛的管理問題已經成詬病的時候\n在這邊我有幾個問題要提醒交通部首先來看一下我們的客運業勞動條件非常的差已經是眾人所知的常態每年勞動部都有勞檢以112年為例我們的處分率17.42%17.42%裡邊三層事實上是汽車客運業\n1200場有209件那17.12可是三成都是客運業者那第一名是工作超時台灣一直在處理酒駕可是始終一直沒有處理疲勞駕駛可是除了工作超時以外那第三名事實上是休息時間不足那跟111年也都一樣就我們始終沒有去面對疲勞駕駛可是這個\n我們的客運業者面對到的是這樣子的一個問題再來看第二個問題也就是我們的駕駛的薪資結構非常奇形我引用媒體從判決書上得到的資料會發現公車業者號稱8萬塊\n就是說業者是可以可是三分之一事實上是加班費然後全部都是用獎金所以也意味著什麼意味著要我們的司機要搶班又搶客那就會開的速度上甚至客人在那裡站牌的時候我就要很快速的插過去然後才可以得到這些獎金因為載客量事實上是他的獎金來源那所以我不知道部長\n你對於像這樣子的用獎金用加班費對駕駛跟業者來講這個事實上這些選項都沒有太大就好像不斷的鼓勵我們的司機要愛拚才會贏才能賺得更多不知道你對這個狀況有掌握嗎\n有掌握那我也覺得說這個目前客運業在缺工的狀況底下勞動條件是一個很重要的一環那如果勞動條件可以提升我相信客運的這個人才會更留得住更能夠吸納所以我們一直在鼓勵說業者是不是在勞動條件的方面可以來做更好的加強那這個部分我以後也會再實施所以我覺得是不是可以要強勢一點否則的話我覺得找不到好的人人也不會進去那我也先想問部長\n你是不是知道平建機制當中勞權的分數到底比重佔多少這個部分是不是可以\n老全有放進來嗎因為我們其實是在基本的安全紀錄裡面他有提到就是說比如說自顧啦違規啦還有違反勞動條件所以就是說有一些部分如果說他違反一些勞動條件的話他就會變成說我來幫你回答就是先看到事實上\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n公路總局你們到底自己跟部長觀念是不是不太一樣都覺得勞權很重要可是在評鑑分數上並沒有呈現因為只佔了5%評鑑應該是以安全為主以交通部的立場大概以安全為主因為勞權的部分當然我們很重視但是勞動部的部分也會來協助這個\n所以部長也要知道我們要好的人才有辦法事實上安全否則的話沒有辦法來我們公路局年年都去考察了可是年年退步到底出去考察應該不是去玩吧你106年就開始去考察啦你也會去看東南亞地區瞭解整個客運營運的那個狀況管理怎麼去做可是看起來10年駕駛人創新低以外可是我們大客\n大貨客運的這樣子造成傷亡近創10年新高那你考察用意這樣子有達到嗎似乎在浪費公帑下一頁所以另外運安會也在建議說你是不是應該建立安全管理機制不過更重要應該是輔導業者設置專責單位或人來修訂評鑑的執行要點來把安全管理納入\n一個評選的考量再來看公視已經幫你們做完功課106年的時候公視就去採訪日本的巴士業者去針對一系列的報導甚至安全制度的改革行動包含我們的產業結構不要讓它銷價競爭\n還有管理者的整個的駕駛的管理跟訓練要確保我們的駕駛有休息的時間甚至有沒有他的工時跟休息時間能不能有一些法則來確保我們駕駛者不會過度疲勞所以我們不希望說今天人家都幫你做完功課已經open book了你們還是無動於衷\n委員會主席\n甲、高薪增拚命賺獎金的問題來吸引跟留用我們高品質人才第二個是強化駕駛的勞動條件希望能夠儘速修訂公車、汽車客運業營運與服務\n執行要點來調整檢討評鑑項目第三個是應該落實我們考察跟研究報告的建議具體提出公車客運業者的管理制度跟改革短中長期計畫我不知道部長這邊可不可以在兩個禮拜內提出書面報告是 這個部分我們納入研議並且提出報告給委員好 謝謝部長 辛苦了\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.075 --> 00:02.401\n好主席有請部長好陳部長\n\n00:16.638 --> 00:42.938\n部長我想今天這個主題大家都是針對我們的駕駛缺工跟減班、砍線的問題來希望交通部推動相關政策可是不要忘記我覺得勞權跟安全的重要性那相信部長對於駕駛人力的持續銳減的問題應該有充分掌握了不過我想問部長是我們的路線班次跟運量都縮減\n\n00:44.139 --> 01:13.191\n照理來講事故應該是不是理論上應該也會事實上是減少的對那大貨車的這個事故數據部長不知道有沒有掌握大貨車對大客貨車大貨車應該是真大客貨車的事故數據有沒有事故數據是在成長的好來我們就來看一下那個數據的確如部長剛剛提的就是說照理來講\n\n01:14.071 --> 01:28.541\n我的觀念應該半次減少運量減少應該會減少怎麼反而數據事實上是好像顯示的不是這麼一回事像整體的大貨車裡面的數量創10年新高而且尤其是大貨車跟公車\n\n01:29.434 --> 01:50.730\n造成的傷亡人數還逐步惡化112年還是創10年最高我自己本身一直在關心兒童安全那過去也對這邊比較多努力所以我對事故傷害防治跟安全議題相當重視那今年也發生了幾起事我們的大型車輛跟兒少的交通事故那大型車輛的管理問題已經成詬病的時候\n\n01:53.206 --> 02:09.070\n在這邊我有幾個問題要提醒交通部首先來看一下我們的客運業勞動條件非常的差已經是眾人所知的常態每年勞動部都有勞檢以112年為例我們的處分率17.42%17.42%裡邊三層事實上是汽車客運業\n\n02:20.139 --> 02:41.919\n1200場有209件那17.12可是三成都是客運業者那第一名是工作超時台灣一直在處理酒駕可是始終一直沒有處理疲勞駕駛可是除了工作超時以外那第三名事實上是休息時間不足那跟111年也都一樣就我們始終沒有去面對疲勞駕駛可是這個\n\n02:43.646 --> 02:58.131\n我們的客運業者面對到的是這樣子的一個問題再來看第二個問題也就是我們的駕駛的薪資結構非常奇形我引用媒體從判決書上得到的資料會發現公車業者號稱8萬塊\n\n03:02.353 --> 03:31.102\n就是說業者是可以可是三分之一事實上是加班費然後全部都是用獎金所以也意味著什麼意味著要我們的司機要搶班又搶客那就會開的速度上甚至客人在那裡站牌的時候我就要很快速的插過去然後才可以得到這些獎金因為載客量事實上是他的獎金來源那所以我不知道部長\n\n03:32.236 --> 03:48.716\n你對於像這樣子的用獎金用加班費對駕駛跟業者來講這個事實上這些選項都沒有太大就好像不斷的鼓勵我們的司機要愛拚才會贏才能賺得更多不知道你對這個狀況有掌握嗎\n\n03:50.979 --> 04:19.075\n有掌握那我也覺得說這個目前客運業在缺工的狀況底下勞動條件是一個很重要的一環那如果勞動條件可以提升我相信客運的這個人才會更留得住更能夠吸納所以我們一直在鼓勵說業者是不是在勞動條件的方面可以來做更好的加強那這個部分我以後也會再實施所以我覺得是不是可以要強勢一點否則的話我覺得找不到好的人人也不會進去那我也先想問部長\n\n04:20.256 --> 04:27.394\n你是不是知道平建機制當中勞權的分數到底比重佔多少這個部分是不是可以\n\n04:31.818 --> 04:51.202\n老全有放進來嗎因為我們其實是在基本的安全紀錄裡面他有提到就是說比如說自顧啦違規啦還有違反勞動條件所以就是說有一些部分如果說他違反一些勞動條件的話他就會變成說我來幫你回答就是先看到事實上\n\n04:51.963 --> 04:52.924\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n05:08.973 --> 05:28.943\n公路總局你們到底自己跟部長觀念是不是不太一樣都覺得勞權很重要可是在評鑑分數上並沒有呈現因為只佔了5%評鑑應該是以安全為主以交通部的立場大概以安全為主因為勞權的部分當然我們很重視但是勞動部的部分也會來協助這個\n\n05:29.943 --> 05:56.010\n所以部長也要知道我們要好的人才有辦法事實上安全否則的話沒有辦法來我們公路局年年都去考察了可是年年退步到底出去考察應該不是去玩吧你106年就開始去考察啦你也會去看東南亞地區瞭解整個客運營運的那個狀況管理怎麼去做可是看起來10年駕駛人創新低以外可是我們大客\n\n05:56.730 --> 06:24.399\n大貨客運的這樣子造成傷亡近創10年新高那你考察用意這樣子有達到嗎似乎在浪費公帑下一頁所以另外運安會也在建議說你是不是應該建立安全管理機制不過更重要應該是輔導業者設置專責單位或人來修訂評鑑的執行要點來把安全管理納入\n\n06:25.034 --> 06:38.809\n一個評選的考量再來看公視已經幫你們做完功課106年的時候公視就去採訪日本的巴士業者去針對一系列的報導甚至安全制度的改革行動包含我們的產業結構不要讓它銷價競爭\n\n06:42.152 --> 07:06.228\n還有管理者的整個的駕駛的管理跟訓練要確保我們的駕駛有休息的時間甚至有沒有他的工時跟休息時間能不能有一些法則來確保我們駕駛者不會過度疲勞所以我們不希望說今天人家都幫你做完功課已經openbook了你們還是無動於衷\n\n07:07.688 --> 07:07.748\n委員會主席\n\n07:28.292 --> 07:39.849\n甲、高薪增拚命賺獎金的問題來吸引跟留用我們高品質人才第二個是強化駕駛的勞動條件希望能夠儘速修訂公車、汽車客運業營運與服務\n\n07:43.494 --> 08:04.450\n執行要點來調整檢討評鑑項目第三個是應該落實我們考察跟研究報告的建議具體提出公車客運業者的管理制度跟改革短中長期計畫我不知道部長這邊可不可以在兩個禮拜內提出書面報告是這個部分我們納入研議並且提出報告給委員好謝謝部長辛苦了\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.075,"end":2.401,"text":"好 主席有請部長好 陳部長"},{"start":16.638,"end":42.938,"text":"部長我想今天這個主題大家都是針對我們的駕駛缺工跟減班、砍線的問題來希望交通部推動相關政策可是不要忘記我覺得勞權跟安全的重要性那相信部長對於駕駛人力的持續銳減的問題應該有充分掌握了不過我想問部長是我們的路線班次跟運量都縮減"},{"start":44.139,"end":73.191,"text":"照理來講事故應該是不是理論上應該也會事實上是減少的對那大貨車的這個事故數據部長不知道有沒有掌握大貨車對大客貨車大貨車應該是真大客貨車的事故數據有沒有事故數據是在成長的好來我們就來看一下那個數據的確如部長剛剛提的就是說照理來講"},{"start":74.071,"end":88.541,"text":"我的觀念應該半次減少運量減少應該會減少怎麼反而數據事實上是好像顯示的不是這麼一回事像整體的大貨車裡面的數量創10年新高而且尤其是大貨車跟公車"},{"start":89.434,"end":110.73,"text":"造成的傷亡人數還逐步惡化112年還是創10年最高我自己本身一直在關心兒童安全那過去也對這邊比較多努力所以我對事故傷害防治跟安全議題相當重視那今年也發生了幾起事我們的大型車輛跟兒少的交通事故那大型車輛的管理問題已經成詬病的時候"},{"start":113.206,"end":129.07,"text":"在這邊我有幾個問題要提醒交通部首先來看一下我們的客運業勞動條件非常的差已經是眾人所知的常態每年勞動部都有勞檢以112年為例我們的處分率17.42%17.42%裡邊三層事實上是汽車客運業"},{"start":140.139,"end":161.919,"text":"1200場有209件那17.12可是三成都是客運業者那第一名是工作超時台灣一直在處理酒駕可是始終一直沒有處理疲勞駕駛可是除了工作超時以外那第三名事實上是休息時間不足那跟111年也都一樣就我們始終沒有去面對疲勞駕駛可是這個"},{"start":163.646,"end":178.131,"text":"我們的客運業者面對到的是這樣子的一個問題再來看第二個問題也就是我們的駕駛的薪資結構非常奇形我引用媒體從判決書上得到的資料會發現公車業者號稱8萬塊"},{"start":182.353,"end":211.102,"text":"就是說業者是可以可是三分之一事實上是加班費然後全部都是用獎金所以也意味著什麼意味著要我們的司機要搶班又搶客那就會開的速度上甚至客人在那裡站牌的時候我就要很快速的插過去然後才可以得到這些獎金因為載客量事實上是他的獎金來源那所以我不知道部長"},{"start":212.236,"end":228.716,"text":"你對於像這樣子的用獎金用加班費對駕駛跟業者來講這個事實上這些選項都沒有太大就好像不斷的鼓勵我們的司機要愛拚才會贏才能賺得更多不知道你對這個狀況有掌握嗎"},{"start":230.979,"end":259.075,"text":"有掌握那我也覺得說這個目前客運業在缺工的狀況底下勞動條件是一個很重要的一環那如果勞動條件可以提升我相信客運的這個人才會更留得住更能夠吸納所以我們一直在鼓勵說業者是不是在勞動條件的方面可以來做更好的加強那這個部分我以後也會再實施所以我覺得是不是可以要強勢一點否則的話我覺得找不到好的人人也不會進去那我也先想問部長"},{"start":260.256,"end":267.394,"text":"你是不是知道平建機制當中勞權的分數到底比重佔多少這個部分是不是可以"},{"start":271.818,"end":291.202,"text":"老全有放進來嗎因為我們其實是在基本的安全紀錄裡面他有提到就是說比如說自顧啦違規啦還有違反勞動條件所以就是說有一些部分如果說他違反一些勞動條件的話他就會變成說我來幫你回答就是先看到事實上"},{"start":291.963,"end":292.924,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":308.973,"end":328.943,"text":"公路總局你們到底自己跟部長觀念是不是不太一樣都覺得勞權很重要可是在評鑑分數上並沒有呈現因為只佔了5%評鑑應該是以安全為主以交通部的立場大概以安全為主因為勞權的部分當然我們很重視但是勞動部的部分也會來協助這個"},{"start":329.943,"end":356.01,"text":"所以部長也要知道我們要好的人才有辦法事實上安全否則的話沒有辦法來我們公路局年年都去考察了可是年年退步到底出去考察應該不是去玩吧你106年就開始去考察啦你也會去看東南亞地區瞭解整個客運營運的那個狀況管理怎麼去做可是看起來10年駕駛人創新低以外可是我們大客"},{"start":356.73,"end":384.399,"text":"大貨客運的這樣子造成傷亡近創10年新高那你考察用意這樣子有達到嗎似乎在浪費公帑下一頁所以另外運安會也在建議說你是不是應該建立安全管理機制不過更重要應該是輔導業者設置專責單位或人來修訂評鑑的執行要點來把安全管理納入"},{"start":385.034,"end":398.809,"text":"一個評選的考量再來看公視已經幫你們做完功課106年的時候公視就去採訪日本的巴士業者去針對一系列的報導甚至安全制度的改革行動包含我們的產業結構不要讓它銷價競爭"},{"start":402.152,"end":426.228,"text":"還有管理者的整個的駕駛的管理跟訓練要確保我們的駕駛有休息的時間甚至有沒有他的工時跟休息時間能不能有一些法則來確保我們駕駛者不會過度疲勞所以我們不希望說今天人家都幫你做完功課已經open book了你們還是無動於衷"},{"start":427.688,"end":427.748,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":448.292,"end":459.849,"text":"甲、高薪增拚命賺獎金的問題來吸引跟留用我們高品質人才第二個是強化駕駛的勞動條件希望能夠儘速修訂公車、汽車客運業營運與服務"},{"start":463.494,"end":484.45,"text":"執行要點來調整檢討評鑑項目第三個是應該落實我們考察跟研究報告的建議具體提出公車客運業者的管理制度跟改革短中長期計畫我不知道部長這邊可不可以在兩個禮拜內提出書面報告是 這個部分我們納入研議並且提出報告給委員好 謝謝部長 辛苦了"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":594,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（12時2分）主席，有請部長。"],["主席：好，陳部長。"],["林委員月琴：部長午安。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["林委員月琴：我想今天這個主題，大家都是針對我們的駕駛缺工、減班跟砍線的問題，希望交通部推動相關政策，可是不要忘記勞權跟安全的重要性。相信部長對於駕駛人力持續銳減的問題，應該有充分掌握了。"],["陳部長世凱：是，沒錯。"],["林委員月琴：不過我想問部長的是，我們的路線、班次跟運量都縮減，照理來講，事故是不是理論上應該也會減少？"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["林委員月琴：關於大貨車的事故數據，不知道部長有沒有掌握？"],["陳部長世凱：大貨車？"],["林委員月琴：對，大客貨車。"],["陳部長世凱：大貨車應該是……"],["林委員月琴：大客貨車的事故數據。"],["陳部長世凱：事故數據是在成長。"],["林委員月琴：好，我們就來看一下那個數據。的確如部長剛剛提的，照理來講，我的觀念是因為班次減少、運量減少，應該會減少，怎麼反而數據事實上好像顯示的不是這麼一回事，像整體的大貨客車事故數量創10年新高，尤其是大貨車跟公車，造成的傷亡人數還逐步惡化，112年還是創10年最高。","我自己本身一直在關心兒童安全，過去也對這邊比較多努力，所以我對於事故傷害防治跟安全議題相當重視。今年也發生了幾起大型車輛跟兒少的交通事故，大型車輛的管理問題已經成詬病的時候，在這邊我有幾個問題要提醒交通部。首先來看一下我們客運業的勞動條件非常差，已經是眾人所知的常態。每年勞動部都有勞檢，以112年為例，我們的處分率是17.42%，在17.42%裡面有三成是汽車客運業，1,200場勞檢裡面有209件違反，處分率17.42%，可是三成都是客運業者。第一名是工作超時，臺灣一直在處理酒駕，始終沒有處理疲勞駕駛，可是除了工作超時以外，第三名是休息時間不足，跟111年也都一樣。我們始終沒有去面對疲勞駕駛，可是我們的客運業者面對到的是這樣子的一個問題。","再來看第二個問題，我們的駕駛的薪資結構非常畸形，我引用媒體從判決書上得到的資料發現，公車業者號稱薪資8萬塊，可是事實上三分之一是加班費，然後全部都是用獎金，所以也意味著什麼？意味著我們的司機要搶班又搶客，那就會反映在開的速度上，甚至客人在站牌的時候，司機就要很快速的插過去，才可以得到這些獎金，因為載客量事實上是他的獎金來源。我不知道部長對於像這樣用獎金、用加班費，對駕駛跟業者來講，這些選項就好像不斷的鼓勵我們的司機要愛拚才會贏，才能賺得更多，不知道你對於這個狀況有掌握嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：有掌握，我也覺得目前客運業在缺工的狀況底下，勞動條件是很重要的一環，如果勞動條件可以提升，我相信客運的人才會更留得住，更能夠吸納。所以我們也一直在鼓勵業者，是不是在勞動條件方面可以做更好的加強，這個部分我以後也會再持續來溝通跟要求。"],["林委員月琴：我覺得是不是可以強勢一點，否則的話我覺得找不到好的人，人也不會進去。我想問部長，你是不是知道評鑑機制當中，勞權的分數到底比重占多少？"],["陳局長文瑞：跟委員報告，因為我們是在基本的安全紀錄裡面，有提到比如事故、違規，還有違反勞動條件，所以有一些部分，如果它違反一些勞動條件的話，它就會變成沒辦法符合基本安全……"],["林委員月琴：我來幫你回答，現在看到的是國道客運5.1%、一般公車客運5.4%，如果我們認為勞權非常重要的話，但在評鑑的比重上怎麼會針對業者有這樣的管控呢？這是沒有辦法的。顯然公路總局跟部長的觀念是不是不太一樣？你們都覺得勞權很重要，可是在評鑑分數上並沒有呈現，因為只占了5%。"],["陳部長世凱：評鑑應該是以安全為主，以交通部的立場應該以安全為主……"],["林委員月琴：是，這個我承認。"],["陳部長世凱：因為勞權的部分當然我們很重視，但是勞動部也會來協助這個部分。"],["林委員月琴：不過部長也要知道，我們要好的人才有辦法安全，否則的話沒有辦法。"],["陳部長世凱：當然，沒有錯。"],["林委員月琴：公路局年年都去考察，可是年年退步，出去考察應該不是去玩吧？你106年就開始去考察了，你也會去看東南亞地區，了解整個客運營運的狀況以及管理怎麼去做，可是看起來10年駕駛人創新低以外，我們大貨車客運造成的傷亡竟創10年新高，那你考察的用意有達到嗎？似乎在浪費公帑。","另外，運安會也建議你是不是應該建立安全管理機制，不過更重要應該是輔導業者設置專責單位或人，來修訂評鑑的執行要點，把安全管理納入評選的考量。再來看，公視已經幫你們做完功課，106年的時候公視就去採訪日本的巴士業者，針對一系列的報導，甚至安全制度的改革行動，包含我們的產業結構，不要讓它削價競爭。還有整個駕駛的管理跟訓練，要確保我們的駕駛有休息時間，甚至針對工時跟休息時間能不能有一些罰則來確保我們的駕駛者不會過度疲勞。所以我們不希望今天人家都幫你做完功課，已經open book了，你們還是無動於衷，考察作為應該不是只是玩樂，應該是把考察的東西拿回來之後，好好的來落實。","對於公車客運駕駛，我主張是不是政府可以用運價貼補，應以薪資結構正常化為條件，來改善假高薪，真拚命賺獎金的問題，吸引跟留用高品質的人才。第二個是強化駕駛的勞動條件，就是希望能夠儘速修訂公車汽車客運業營運與服務評鑑執行要點，來調整檢討評鑑項目。第三個是應該落實我們考察跟研究報告的建議，具體提出公車客運業者的管理制度，跟改革短、中、長期計畫。我不知道部長這邊可不可以在兩個禮拜內提出書面報告？"],["陳部長世凱：是，這個部分我們會納入研議，並且提出報告給委員，謝謝。"],["林委員月琴：好，謝謝部長，辛苦了。"],["主席：好，謝謝林委員，接下來有請李坤城委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":366,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-7","speakers":["魯明哲","李昆澤","林國成","林沛祥","林俊憲","許智傑","廖先翔","徐富癸","邱若華","陳雪生","陳素月","蔡其昌","林月琴","李坤城","鍾佳濱","牛煦庭","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","賴惠員","黃健豪","羅廷瑋","羅智強","王鴻薇","何欣純","楊瓊瓔","黃捷","游顥","陳冠廷"],"page_start":289,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1139001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、公平交易委員會主任委員李鎂、數位發展部次長、勞動部次長、衛\n生福利部、經濟部、個人資料保護委員會籌備處及行政院消費者保護處就「外送平台之整併、收\n費指引、個資保護、產業發展、勞工權益及食品物流安全規範」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、\n邀請交通部公路局局長就「公路大型客貨運駕駛短缺之因應措施暨現行遊覽車評鑑制度之檢討與\n精進」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139001_00005"}}}