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\"次\", \"start\": 430.101, \"end\": 430.121, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,887 --> 00:00:04,772\n好謝謝主席然後請先請行政院的蘇處長蘇處長\n\n2\n00:00:12,899 --> 00:00:36,990\n蘇組長,我先請教,其實現在包括少子化包括高齡的社會都來臨,其實這是台灣嚴肅要面對的問題,其實很多國家都在處理這個問題,剛剛我在經濟委員會剛剛談了一下少子化的問題,我認為這個是確實需要重視,那當然高齡化是另外一個問題,怎麼樣讓這些的高齡的他有能力的也願意再繼續的能夠怎麼,我覺得確實是一個課題,\n\n3\n00:00:38,351 --> 00:00:57,257\n我首先要回來講這些事情其實行政院也在做各位也在做了今天要過這樣的就是要來審這樣的一個法的時候我先問一下他這個立法體力上面我看起來是比較特殊一點處長怎麼看我們也是解的第一個就是說他算是什麼樣的法\n\n4\n00:01:15,962 --> 00:01:45,116\n所以這個部分所以定義壯世代剛才也之前也提了這個國際上是沒有對壯世代有一個定義所以這個部分來講確實我們對整部法認為說用法規範來講壯世代這個相關的作用我覺得它反倒比較有點像基本法的概念就是應該要怎樣應該怎樣但是它其實沒有賦予比如說德設立基金會包括我認為它看起來反而比較像基本法的精神反倒不像所謂的作用法或者其他我覺得反而不像啦\n\n5\n00:01:45,456 --> 00:01:53,006\n所以我覺得也許在將來在討論的時候可以再慎重思考一下啦他的體力上那再來我想請教啦他的主管機關到底是誰\n\n6\n00:01:54,637 --> 00:01:54,817\n委員會主席\n\n7\n00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:24,940\n﹚審查委員﹚\n\n8\n00:02:45,436 --> 00:03:10,605\n那另外一個就是說實務上我們有關於壯世代這個部分來講因為政務委員開三次會我們10月31號院長要召開社會福利推動委員會他勞動部要做一個報告那事實上我們在組織裡面來講針對壯世代的議題已經做處理了而且院長也在負責的社會福利委員會裡面然後政務委員也負責一個專案辦公室這個組織的架構跟處理已經都有了\n\n9\n00:03:34,651 --> 00:04:03,983\n行政院長跟就大概就你們幾個處而已啦其實人力上各方面其實都非常的吃緊就是說這樣子在進行這件事情到底能不能達到他的成效所以我希望在未來的公聽會或甚至在內部的討論我覺得這個要慎重在討論後面的這個體制的問題包括他的單位啦那再來我也想請教一下啦包括我也看到了他這個財政上的問題啦他得設立一個基金啊這個基金如果設立了將來由誰來管理\n\n10\n00:04:05,919 --> 00:04:22,521\n因為規範也不明確而且設計金的話有院長自己來管理財政紀律法裡面規定來講這個基金的設計院長管理可能就是你管理因為你是這個處的負責的對不對所以我說整個體力上非常的奇怪完全不不照我們過去所走的所以我覺得這裡面有非常多要\n\n11\n00:04:49,999 --> 00:04:51,480\n部長對現在這樣的一個推動的進度滿意嗎\n\n12\n00:05:10,970 --> 00:05:37,692\n基本上現在其實有達到一定程度的效果啦而且這從專跑推動也來到現在增加了38萬的中高齡就業人口就大概每年大概10萬多10萬多是是是對而且都超過對大概超過10萬對但是我們在看的話其實相較於其他的包括美國日本韓國的部分其實周邊幾個好像還有很大的空間是沒錯我們相較於他們都偏低是沒有錯\n\n13\n00:05:38,433 --> 00:05:44,657\n部長怎麼認為我們怎麼樣可以來來我想今天這個有一個目的也是這樣他們希望能夠讓那怎麼樣讓有意願也有能力能夠怎麼來提升對我們就幾款旗下一個是行政措施獎勵啦包括像55plus就業措施獎勵婦女在就業獎勵不只針對雇主也針對勞工\n\n14\n00:06:23,599 --> 00:06:42,567\n所以其實目前大概有法律面還有包括行政獎勵措施面我們希望能夠來疾管其下還有包括委員你們今年謝謝你們在制定的中小企業加薪抵稅65歲以上都還給他加薪的抵稅的優惠這樣子這個還有包括勞基法54條\n\n15\n00:06:44,828 --> 00:07:03,117\n我們通過了合意退休就是不限於65歲你只要勞資雙方協商就可以延後不限65歲退休這樣子我們希望部長持續的努力我看到現在我們55到59歲的也都在這次的法上想定的範圍內我們的勞參率是61相較於美國的73日本的85韓國的77都還有一段距離\n\n16\n00:07:09,981 --> 00:07:10,121\n謝謝委員謝謝部長、次長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2887\t4772\t好謝謝主席然後請先請行政院的蘇處長蘇處長\n12899\t36990\t蘇組長,我先請教,其實現在包括少子化包括高齡的社會都來臨,其實這是台灣嚴肅要面對的問題,其實很多國家都在處理這個問題,剛剛我在經濟委員會剛剛談了一下少子化的問題,我認為這個是確實需要重視,那當然高齡化是另外一個問題,怎麼樣讓這些的高齡的他有能力的也願意再繼續的能夠怎麼,我覺得確實是一個課題,\n38351\t57257\t我首先要回來講這些事情其實行政院也在做各位也在做了今天要過這樣的就是要來審這樣的一個法的時候我先問一下他這個立法體力上面我看起來是比較特殊一點處長怎麼看我們也是解的第一個就是說他算是什麼樣的法\n58643\t75862\t⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n75962\t105116\t所以這個部分所以定義壯世代剛才也之前也提了這個國際上是沒有對壯世代有一個定義所以這個部分來講確實我們對整部法認為說用法規範來講壯世代這個相關的作用我覺得它反倒比較有點像基本法的概念就是應該要怎樣應該怎樣但是它其實沒有賦予比如說德設立基金會包括我認為它看起來反而比較像基本法的精神反倒不像所謂的作用法或者其他 我覺得反而不像啦\n105456\t113006\t所以我覺得也許在將來在討論的時候可以再慎重思考一下啦他的體力上那再來我想請教啦他的主管機關到底是誰\n114637\t114817\t委員會主席\n144480\t144940\t﹚審查委員﹚\n165436\t190605\t那另外一個就是說實務上我們有關於壯世代這個部分來講因為政務委員開三次會我們10月31號院長要召開社會福利推動委員會他勞動部要做一個報告那事實上我們在組織裡面來講針對壯世代的議題已經做處理了而且院長也在負責的社會福利委員會裡面然後政務委員也負責一個專案辦公室這個組織的架構跟處理已經都有了\n190725\t214531\t⋯⋯⋯\n214651\t243983\t行政院長跟就大概就你們幾個處而已啦其實人力上各方面其實都非常的吃緊就是說這樣子在進行這件事情到底能不能達到他的成效所以我希望在未來的公聽會或甚至在內部的討論我覺得這個要慎重在討論後面的這個體制的問題包括他的單位啦那再來我也想請教一下啦包括我也看到了他這個財政上的問題啦他得設立一個基金啊這個基金如果設立了將來由誰來管理\n245919\t262521\t因為規範也不明確而且設計金的話有院長自己來管理財政紀律法裡面規定來講這個基金的設計院長管理可能就是你管理因為你是這個處的負責的對不對所以我說整個體力上非常的奇怪完全不不照我們過去所走的所以我覺得這裡面有非常多要\n262841\t284855\t⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n289999\t291480\t部長對現在這樣的一個推動的進度滿意嗎\n310970\t337692\t基本上現在其實有達到一定程度的效果啦而且這從專跑推動也來到現在增加了38萬的中高齡就業人口就大概每年大概10萬多10萬多是是是對而且都超過對大概超過10萬對但是我們在看的話其實相較於其他的包括美國日本韓國的部分其實周邊幾個好像還有很大的空間是沒錯我們相較於他們都偏低是沒有錯\n338433\t344657\t部長怎麼認為我們怎麼樣可以來來我想今天這個有一個目的也是這樣他們希望能夠讓那怎麼樣讓有意願也有能力能夠怎麼來提升對我們就幾款旗下一個是行政措施獎勵啦包括像55plus就業措施獎勵婦女在就業獎勵不只針對雇主也針對勞工\n359206\t383439\t﹏﹏﹏\n383599\t402567\t所以其實目前大概有法律面還有包括行政獎勵措施面我們希望能夠來疾管其下還有包括委員你們今年謝謝你們在制定的中小企業加薪抵稅65歲以上都還給他加薪的抵稅的優惠這樣子這個還有包括勞基法54條\n404828\t423117\t我們通過了合意退休就是不限於65歲你只要勞資雙方協商就可以延後不限65歲退休這樣子我們希望部長持續的努力我看到現在我們55到59歲的也都在這次的法上想定的範圍內我們的勞參率是61相較於美國的73日本的85韓國的77都還有一段距離\n429981\t430121\t謝謝委員 謝謝部長、次長\n","txt":"好謝謝主席然後請先請行政院的蘇處長蘇處長\n蘇組長,我先請教,其實現在包括少子化包括高齡的社會都來臨,其實這是台灣嚴肅要面對的問題,其實很多國家都在處理這個問題,剛剛我在經濟委員會剛剛談了一下少子化的問題,我認為這個是確實需要重視,那當然高齡化是另外一個問題,怎麼樣讓這些的高齡的他有能力的也願意再繼續的能夠怎麼,我覺得確實是一個課題,\n我首先要回來講這些事情其實行政院也在做各位也在做了今天要過這樣的就是要來審這樣的一個法的時候我先問一下他這個立法體力上面我看起來是比較特殊一點處長怎麼看我們也是解的第一個就是說他算是什麼樣的法\n⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n所以這個部分所以定義壯世代剛才也之前也提了這個國際上是沒有對壯世代有一個定義所以這個部分來講確實我們對整部法認為說用法規範來講壯世代這個相關的作用我覺得它反倒比較有點像基本法的概念就是應該要怎樣應該怎樣但是它其實沒有賦予比如說德設立基金會包括我認為它看起來反而比較像基本法的精神反倒不像所謂的作用法或者其他 我覺得反而不像啦\n所以我覺得也許在將來在討論的時候可以再慎重思考一下啦他的體力上那再來我想請教啦他的主管機關到底是誰\n委員會主席\n﹚審查委員﹚\n那另外一個就是說實務上我們有關於壯世代這個部分來講因為政務委員開三次會我們10月31號院長要召開社會福利推動委員會他勞動部要做一個報告那事實上我們在組織裡面來講針對壯世代的議題已經做處理了而且院長也在負責的社會福利委員會裡面然後政務委員也負責一個專案辦公室這個組織的架構跟處理已經都有了\n⋯⋯⋯\n行政院長跟就大概就你們幾個處而已啦其實人力上各方面其實都非常的吃緊就是說這樣子在進行這件事情到底能不能達到他的成效所以我希望在未來的公聽會或甚至在內部的討論我覺得這個要慎重在討論後面的這個體制的問題包括他的單位啦那再來我也想請教一下啦包括我也看到了他這個財政上的問題啦他得設立一個基金啊這個基金如果設立了將來由誰來管理\n因為規範也不明確而且設計金的話有院長自己來管理財政紀律法裡面規定來講這個基金的設計院長管理可能就是你管理因為你是這個處的負責的對不對所以我說整個體力上非常的奇怪完全不不照我們過去所走的所以我覺得這裡面有非常多要\n⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n部長對現在這樣的一個推動的進度滿意嗎\n基本上現在其實有達到一定程度的效果啦而且這從專跑推動也來到現在增加了38萬的中高齡就業人口就大概每年大概10萬多10萬多是是是對而且都超過對大概超過10萬對但是我們在看的話其實相較於其他的包括美國日本韓國的部分其實周邊幾個好像還有很大的空間是沒錯我們相較於他們都偏低是沒有錯\n部長怎麼認為我們怎麼樣可以來來我想今天這個有一個目的也是這樣他們希望能夠讓那怎麼樣讓有意願也有能力能夠怎麼來提升對我們就幾款旗下一個是行政措施獎勵啦包括像55plus就業措施獎勵婦女在就業獎勵不只針對雇主也針對勞工\n﹏﹏﹏\n所以其實目前大概有法律面還有包括行政獎勵措施面我們希望能夠來疾管其下還有包括委員你們今年謝謝你們在制定的中小企業加薪抵稅65歲以上都還給他加薪的抵稅的優惠這樣子這個還有包括勞基法54條\n我們通過了合意退休就是不限於65歲你只要勞資雙方協商就可以延後不限65歲退休這樣子我們希望部長持續的努力我看到現在我們55到59歲的也都在這次的法上想定的範圍內我們的勞參率是61相較於美國的73日本的85韓國的77都還有一段距離\n謝謝委員 謝謝部長、次長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.887 --> 00:04.772\n好謝謝主席然後請先請行政院的蘇處長蘇處長\n\n00:12.899 --> 00:36.990\n蘇組長,我先請教,其實現在包括少子化包括高齡的社會都來臨,其實這是台灣嚴肅要面對的問題,其實很多國家都在處理這個問題,剛剛我在經濟委員會剛剛談了一下少子化的問題,我認為這個是確實需要重視,那當然高齡化是另外一個問題,怎麼樣讓這些的高齡的他有能力的也願意再繼續的能夠怎麼,我覺得確實是一個課題,\n\n00:38.351 --> 00:57.257\n我首先要回來講這些事情其實行政院也在做各位也在做了今天要過這樣的就是要來審這樣的一個法的時候我先問一下他這個立法體力上面我看起來是比較特殊一點處長怎麼看我們也是解的第一個就是說他算是什麼樣的法\n\n01:15.962 --> 01:45.116\n所以這個部分所以定義壯世代剛才也之前也提了這個國際上是沒有對壯世代有一個定義所以這個部分來講確實我們對整部法認為說用法規範來講壯世代這個相關的作用我覺得它反倒比較有點像基本法的概念就是應該要怎樣應該怎樣但是它其實沒有賦予比如說德設立基金會包括我認為它看起來反而比較像基本法的精神反倒不像所謂的作用法或者其他我覺得反而不像啦\n\n01:45.456 --> 01:53.006\n所以我覺得也許在將來在討論的時候可以再慎重思考一下啦他的體力上那再來我想請教啦他的主管機關到底是誰\n\n01:54.637 --> 01:54.817\n委員會主席\n\n02:24.480 --> 02:24.940\n﹚審查委員﹚\n\n02:45.436 --> 03:10.605\n那另外一個就是說實務上我們有關於壯世代這個部分來講因為政務委員開三次會我們10月31號院長要召開社會福利推動委員會他勞動部要做一個報告那事實上我們在組織裡面來講針對壯世代的議題已經做處理了而且院長也在負責的社會福利委員會裡面然後政務委員也負責一個專案辦公室這個組織的架構跟處理已經都有了\n\n03:34.651 --> 04:03.983\n行政院長跟就大概就你們幾個處而已啦其實人力上各方面其實都非常的吃緊就是說這樣子在進行這件事情到底能不能達到他的成效所以我希望在未來的公聽會或甚至在內部的討論我覺得這個要慎重在討論後面的這個體制的問題包括他的單位啦那再來我也想請教一下啦包括我也看到了他這個財政上的問題啦他得設立一個基金啊這個基金如果設立了將來由誰來管理\n\n04:05.919 --> 04:22.521\n因為規範也不明確而且設計金的話有院長自己來管理財政紀律法裡面規定來講這個基金的設計院長管理可能就是你管理因為你是這個處的負責的對不對所以我說整個體力上非常的奇怪完全不不照我們過去所走的所以我覺得這裡面有非常多要\n\n04:49.999 --> 04:51.480\n部長對現在這樣的一個推動的進度滿意嗎\n\n05:10.970 --> 05:37.692\n基本上現在其實有達到一定程度的效果啦而且這從專跑推動也來到現在增加了38萬的中高齡就業人口就大概每年大概10萬多10萬多是是是對而且都超過對大概超過10萬對但是我們在看的話其實相較於其他的包括美國日本韓國的部分其實周邊幾個好像還有很大的空間是沒錯我們相較於他們都偏低是沒有錯\n\n05:38.433 --> 05:44.657\n部長怎麼認為我們怎麼樣可以來來我想今天這個有一個目的也是這樣他們希望能夠讓那怎麼樣讓有意願也有能力能夠怎麼來提升對我們就幾款旗下一個是行政措施獎勵啦包括像55plus就業措施獎勵婦女在就業獎勵不只針對雇主也針對勞工\n\n06:23.599 --> 06:42.567\n所以其實目前大概有法律面還有包括行政獎勵措施面我們希望能夠來疾管其下還有包括委員你們今年謝謝你們在制定的中小企業加薪抵稅65歲以上都還給他加薪的抵稅的優惠這樣子這個還有包括勞基法54條\n\n06:44.828 --> 07:03.117\n我們通過了合意退休就是不限於65歲你只要勞資雙方協商就可以延後不限65歲退休這樣子我們希望部長持續的努力我看到現在我們55到59歲的也都在這次的法上想定的範圍內我們的勞參率是61相較於美國的73日本的85韓國的77都還有一段距離\n\n07:09.981 --> 07:10.121\n謝謝委員謝謝部長、次長\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.887,"end":4.772,"text":"好謝謝主席然後請先請行政院的蘇處長蘇處長"},{"start":12.899,"end":36.99,"text":"蘇組長,我先請教,其實現在包括少子化包括高齡的社會都來臨,其實這是台灣嚴肅要面對的問題,其實很多國家都在處理這個問題,剛剛我在經濟委員會剛剛談了一下少子化的問題,我認為這個是確實需要重視,那當然高齡化是另外一個問題,怎麼樣讓這些的高齡的他有能力的也願意再繼續的能夠怎麼,我覺得確實是一個課題,"},{"start":38.351,"end":57.257,"text":"我首先要回來講這些事情其實行政院也在做各位也在做了今天要過這樣的就是要來審這樣的一個法的時候我先問一下他這個立法體力上面我看起來是比較特殊一點處長怎麼看我們也是解的第一個就是說他算是什麼樣的法"},{"start":58.643,"end":75.862,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":75.962,"end":105.116,"text":"所以這個部分所以定義壯世代剛才也之前也提了這個國際上是沒有對壯世代有一個定義所以這個部分來講確實我們對整部法認為說用法規範來講壯世代這個相關的作用我覺得它反倒比較有點像基本法的概念就是應該要怎樣應該怎樣但是它其實沒有賦予比如說德設立基金會包括我認為它看起來反而比較像基本法的精神反倒不像所謂的作用法或者其他 我覺得反而不像啦"},{"start":105.456,"end":113.006,"text":"所以我覺得也許在將來在討論的時候可以再慎重思考一下啦他的體力上那再來我想請教啦他的主管機關到底是誰"},{"start":114.637,"end":114.817,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":144.48,"end":144.94,"text":"﹚審查委員﹚"},{"start":165.436,"end":190.605,"text":"那另外一個就是說實務上我們有關於壯世代這個部分來講因為政務委員開三次會我們10月31號院長要召開社會福利推動委員會他勞動部要做一個報告那事實上我們在組織裡面來講針對壯世代的議題已經做處理了而且院長也在負責的社會福利委員會裡面然後政務委員也負責一個專案辦公室這個組織的架構跟處理已經都有了"},{"start":190.725,"end":214.531,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":214.651,"end":243.983,"text":"行政院長跟就大概就你們幾個處而已啦其實人力上各方面其實都非常的吃緊就是說這樣子在進行這件事情到底能不能達到他的成效所以我希望在未來的公聽會或甚至在內部的討論我覺得這個要慎重在討論後面的這個體制的問題包括他的單位啦那再來我也想請教一下啦包括我也看到了他這個財政上的問題啦他得設立一個基金啊這個基金如果設立了將來由誰來管理"},{"start":245.919,"end":262.521,"text":"因為規範也不明確而且設計金的話有院長自己來管理財政紀律法裡面規定來講這個基金的設計院長管理可能就是你管理因為你是這個處的負責的對不對所以我說整個體力上非常的奇怪完全不不照我們過去所走的所以我覺得這裡面有非常多要"},{"start":262.841,"end":284.855,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":289.999,"end":291.48,"text":"部長對現在這樣的一個推動的進度滿意嗎"},{"start":310.97,"end":337.692,"text":"基本上現在其實有達到一定程度的效果啦而且這從專跑推動也來到現在增加了38萬的中高齡就業人口就大概每年大概10萬多10萬多是是是對而且都超過對大概超過10萬對但是我們在看的話其實相較於其他的包括美國日本韓國的部分其實周邊幾個好像還有很大的空間是沒錯我們相較於他們都偏低是沒有錯"},{"start":338.433,"end":344.657,"text":"部長怎麼認為我們怎麼樣可以來來我想今天這個有一個目的也是這樣他們希望能夠讓那怎麼樣讓有意願也有能力能夠怎麼來提升對我們就幾款旗下一個是行政措施獎勵啦包括像55plus就業措施獎勵婦女在就業獎勵不只針對雇主也針對勞工"},{"start":359.206,"end":383.439,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":383.599,"end":402.567,"text":"所以其實目前大概有法律面還有包括行政獎勵措施面我們希望能夠來疾管其下還有包括委員你們今年謝謝你們在制定的中小企業加薪抵稅65歲以上都還給他加薪的抵稅的優惠這樣子這個還有包括勞基法54條"},{"start":404.828,"end":423.117,"text":"我們通過了合意退休就是不限於65歲你只要勞資雙方協商就可以延後不限65歲退休這樣子我們希望部長持續的努力我看到現在我們55到59歲的也都在這次的法上想定的範圍內我們的勞參率是61相較於美國的73日本的85韓國的77都還有一段距離"},{"start":429.981,"end":430.121,"text":"謝謝委員 謝謝部長、次長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":888,"blocks":[["賴委員瑞隆：（12時23分）謝謝主席，先請行政院的蘇處長。"],["主席：蘇處長。"],["蘇處長永富：委員好。"],["賴委員瑞隆：蘇處長，現在包括少子化、包括高齡社會都來臨了，這是臺灣要嚴肅面對的問題，其實很多國家都已經在處理這個問題了。剛剛我也在經濟委員會談了一下少子化的問題，我認為這個確實是需要重視，當然高齡化是另外一個問題，怎麼樣讓這些具有能力的高齡者願意再繼續就業，我認為確實也是一個課題。","首先還是要回來講，這件事情其實行政院已經在做，各部會也在做了，既然今天要來審這樣一個法，我先問一下，這個立法體例在我看來是比較特殊一點，處長怎麼看？"],["蘇處長永富：我們也是覺得，第一個就是說……"],["賴委員瑞隆：它算是什麼樣的法？"],["蘇處長永富：這個在性質上看起來是很奇怪，以作用法來講，它是一個基本法的性質或是一個執行法？而且我們一般法律都是規範人民的權利義務事項，但它規範的都是政府應辦事項，而且壯世代的定義剛剛之前也提了，在國際上並沒有壯世代的定義。因此，針對這整部法，我們認為以法的規範來講，說實在的，相關的作業……"],["賴委員瑞隆：我覺得它反倒有點像基本法的概念，應該要怎樣、應該要怎樣，但是它的前面有賦予，譬如得設立基金會，我認為它看起來反而比較像基本法的精神，反倒不像所謂的作用法或其他，我覺得反而不像啦！因此，我覺得也許將來討論時可以針對它的體例再慎重思考一下。再來要請教，它的主管機關到底是誰，處長？"],["蘇處長永富：裡面沒有規範主管機關。"],["賴委員瑞隆：沒有規範主管機關？我看到法條上寫的是行政院設立一個辦公室，由院長擔任召集人，這樣的體例很少，我很少看到這樣的體例。"],["蘇處長永富：很少，幾乎沒有。"],["賴委員瑞隆：幾乎沒有嗎？"],["蘇處長永富：幾乎沒有。另外，要向委員報告，一般我們講關於組織的部分，因為中央行政組織基準法規定，作用法不得規範組織，而且它沒有明定這個法的主管機關是誰，但是又設一個壯世代的政策辦公室，這是一個什麼樣的辦公室？它是一個任務編組嗎？看起來像是任務編組，只是以任務編組來講，剛剛我說過中央行政組織基準法規定作用法不得規範關於組織的事項。另外一個，實務上有關於壯世代這個部分，因為政務委員已經開過3次會，10月31日院長要召開社會福利推動委員會，勞動部要做一個報告。事實上，我們的組織針對壯世代的議題已經做處理了，而且由院長負責社會福利委員會，政務委員也負責一個專案辦公室，這個組織的架構及處理已經都有了。"],["賴委員瑞隆：現在的運作其實已經在處理這次的事情了。"],["蘇處長永富：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：但是現在突然通過一個法，而且在訂定得不是那麼清楚的狀況下，又出現了包括應設立一個辦公室，而且是由院長兼任，這個在體例上也非常奇怪。"],["蘇處長永富：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：包括將來的幕僚或作業，我們一般通常會讓某個部會擔任重要的主責單位，但是這邊又沒有，行政院大概就是你們幾個處而已，人力各方面其實都非常吃緊，這樣進行這件事情到底能不能達到它的成效，所以我希望在未來的公聽會或甚至在內部的討論，這個都要再慎重討論後面的體制問題，包括它的單位。","再來我想請教一下，包括我們也看到財政上的問題，它得設立一個基金，如果這個基金設立之後，將來由誰來管理？"],["蘇處長永富：規劃不明確，而且設基金的話……"],["賴委員瑞隆：由院長自己來管理？"],["蘇處長永富：財政紀律法規定，基金設立的話……"],["賴委員瑞隆：院長管理可能就是由你管理，因為你是這個處的負責人，對不對？"],["蘇處長永富：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：整個體例上非常奇怪，完全不照過去我們所走的，所以我覺得這裡有非常多需要深切討論之處，立法院立法的品質要達到一定的水準，要不然會造成很多的困擾。既有線上的事情也在做的話，我認為其實應該照既有的去做，如果有不足的部分要強化，我們再看要用什麼樣的方式去強化，但是應該要把那個體例弄得更清楚，好不好？"],["蘇處長永富：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：謝謝處長。接下來請教一下何部長，好不好？"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["賴委員瑞隆：高齡化的問題，其實大家都要面對，包括怎麼樣讓這些本身有意願的勞動力也能夠參與進來，我看到其實有很多都已經在進行當中，譬如勞動部在中高齡與高齡促進法的部分就有相當的成效，部長對現在這樣的推動進度滿意嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：基本上，現在其實有達到一定程度的效果，而且從專案法推動以來到現在增加了38萬的中高齡就業人口。"],["賴委員瑞隆：每年大概是十萬多、十萬多的速度。"],["何部長佩珊：對，而且都超過，大概超過十萬。"],["賴委員瑞隆：但是就我們看來，相較於其他國家，包括美國、日本、韓國，其實好像還有很大的空間。"],["何部長佩珊：是沒錯，我們相較於它們都是偏低，是沒有錯。"],["賴委員瑞隆：部長認為我們可以怎麼樣做？我想今天這個法案的目的也是如此，怎麼樣讓有意願又有能力者參與，怎麼樣提升？"],["何部長佩珊：我們就幾管齊下，一個是行政措施獎勵，包括像55Plus就業措施獎勵、婦女再就業獎勵，不只針對雇主，也針對勞工，而且還有像是職務再設計、部分工時，這些機制的設計，我們也甚至都有獎勵，所以現在是先用鼓勵來引導。其實在年齡歧視方面，當然我們也都在中高齡法裡面訂定不得歧視，如果有歧視行為的話，雇主要罰30到150萬的罰款。所以目前大概有法律面，還有包括行政獎勵措施面，我們希望能夠幾管齊下，還有包括委員，謝謝你們今年制定中小企業加薪抵稅。"],["賴委員瑞隆：這個很重要。"],["何部長佩珊：對，65歲以上還給他加薪的抵稅優惠，還有包括勞基法第五十四條，我們通過了合意退休，就是不限於65歲，只要勞資雙方協商就可以延後，不限65歲退休。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我們希望部長持續努力，我看到現在55到59歲的也都在這次法上想定的範圍內，我們的勞參率是61%，相較於美國的73%、日本的85%、韓國的77%，都還有一段距離。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：是不是盡力……我也期待有一些更好的政策工具讓整個能夠有好的勞參率。"],["何部長佩珊：好，我們一定會努力，謝謝委員。"],["賴委員瑞隆：期待部長，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝賴委員，謝謝部長、次長。繼續我們請翁曉玲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":160,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-26,19-1","speakers":["蘇清泉","黃秀芳","邱議瑩","林月琴","王正旭","林淑芬","吳春城","陳昭姿","陳亭妃","鄭正鈐","廖偉翔","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","賴瑞隆","翁曉玲","劉建國","吳宗憲","洪孟楷","黃珊珊","林倩綺","林國成","涂權吉","蔡易餘","羅廷瑋","麥玉珍","楊曜","盧縣一","張嘉郡","陳超明","林憶君","邱志偉","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":63,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1139001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查委員吳春城等42人擬具「壯世代政策與產業發展促進法草案」案","agenda_id":"1139001_00002"}}}