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\"end\": 430.808, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 430.808, \"end\": 430.828, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 430.828, \"end\": 430.948, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 430.948, \"end\": 431.008, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 431.008, \"end\": 431.108, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 431.108, \"end\": 431.188, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 431.188, \"end\": 431.208, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"王\", \"start\": 452.466, \"end\": 452.566, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"鴻\"}, {\"word\": \"薇\", \"start\": 452.566, \"end\": 452.586, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:10,696\n主席請徐副部長還有我們陸軍司令部參謀長王委員好副部長好參謀長好延續剛才楊瓊英委員所質詢的題目無人機反制系統是我們\n\n2\n00:00:21,344 --> 00:00:50,078\n部長顧部長他特別講今年度一個優先採購的項目但是現在招標作業並不順利如同剛才楊瓊英委員所講的因為前兩次一次因為流標只有一家第二次因為兩家的最後的驗證的結果通通不合格也流標所以現在第三次的招標作業但是\n\n3\n00:00:52,486 --> 00:01:16,733\n這個為什麼會一再的流標啊?支部部長還是參謀長來回答一下這個整個一個平衡過程我看採購室吧光採購室來做的嘛來光採購室來向委員做個說明趕快喔時間有限喔各位委員報告這個他主要第一次流標是因為未達三家我剛講了嗎第二次流標是第二次廢標是因為啊廠商交了樣機啊沒有經過陸軍的這個POC的驗證不合格是好\n\n4\n00:01:20,994 --> 00:01:24,279\n那為什麼會這樣的狀況事實上在我們這個9億8963萬這個這麼大型的標案的過程裡面包含媒體都有一再的報導\n\n5\n00:01:36,478 --> 00:02:03,854\n譬如說說你們呢接受這個我先接受這兩套未完成整合的無人機反制系統因為他沒有完成整合然後你看到最後似乎是在為廠商鋪路果不其然最後因為你開出的規格只有一家來做投標所以我剛講就一家嘛最後就留標了\n\n6\n00:02:05,073 --> 00:02:32,948\n那一家流包沒有關係等第二次嘛等第二次之後呢沒想到突然殺出個陳曉金來了那因為剛才部長副部長也講回答楊瓊英委員說我們從頭沒有改沒有改但是你們中間有改啦你們中間改了這個公告招標作業呢是把他的軍事裝備的營業稅讓他免稅那造成了大家覺得可能有利可圖\n\n7\n00:02:34,148 --> 00:02:59,464\n結果跑出一個陳曉金因為如果第二次還是那個似乎這位魔廠商在部落的那個廠商來一家就解決了嘛第二次就解決了沒想到第二次跑來了一個陳曉金跑來跟你一起投標那其結果那投標大家都一起來嘛一起這個來做測試兩個都不合格所以通通又變廢標嘛\n\n8\n00:03:01,533 --> 00:03:20,489\n所以我要講的是這個高達將近10億的案子這中間包含媒體都一直在做隱喻甚至直接講啦直接點出說看起來應該從第1次到第2次甚至到第3次大家都看好或者認為應該那家創未來會繼續的來投標\n\n9\n00:03:26,055 --> 00:03:50,171\n第一次就只有一個創未來嘛第二次創未來又來了只是我剛剛講殺出了另外一家公司跑過來投標那所以這個規格真的你們用最高標準嗎符合美國的標準嗎這樣讓外界認為是量身訂做的一個標案其結果就是反反覆覆從7月開始\n\n10\n00:03:52,390 --> 00:04:14,462\n進入第一次招標程序現在看起來今年底能不能完成能不能達到你們顧立雄部長他所設定的目標看起來都有都有很大的變數所以為什麼在媒體或者外界都認為有特定廠商鋪路而造成了一直延宕\n\n11\n00:04:16,286 --> 00:04:30,295\n所以副部長能回答嗎?還是參謀長回答?報告委員,我是陸軍參謀長向委員報告第一個,有關於所謂報導有為廠商鋪路或是量身訂做這個絕對不是事實這第一點那我為什麼這樣講?因為啊\n\n12\n00:04:36,539 --> 00:04:52,125\n他在整個POC的測試他是由所謂的第三方公正還有民間的學者剛剛副部長報告了他包含到相關的航電資訊電子這個是第二個我要報告的第三個\n\n13\n00:04:54,626 --> 00:05:10,578\n因為她的測試她是在一套標準但是單獨來實施兩家廠商她在不同天來實施但是共同的監測全程錄影而且這個如果說為她鋪路的話事實上她也是不合格的單位因為我剛剛講你們規格就綁在那裡了嘛\n\n14\n00:05:18,752 --> 00:05:29,223\n這個規格是依照我們的自然需求來訂定的你規格像無人機人家美國比我們先進吧這反制性有沒有先進我們為什麼沒有採取人家美國的標準呢\n\n15\n00:05:30,916 --> 00:05:49,348\n我們自己找一家特定廠商弄出來的一個規格對不對自己最後又沒有整合成功我們並不是用這家特定廠商的規格就是大家都認為說被這個特定廠商所這個他一定會來投標我們可以拭目以待嘛第三次11月嘛這家廠商會不會出現嘛\n\n16\n00:05:53,099 --> 00:06:13,750\n有多大機率這家廠商會不會出現因為他沒有停權這是他投標的自由但是我代表其他的廠商沒有比他優的規格這個第二次的這個突然出現了一個陳咬金就不在你們的劇情之內嘛本來劇情是寫這樣子怎麼跑出一家所以我在這邊特別質詢的是\n\n17\n00:06:17,992 --> 00:06:35,941\n無人機反制系統之重要也是你們國防部視為優先的採購項目但是請不要因為特殊的原因特殊的人事的關心我聽到的更多\n\n18\n00:06:37,642 --> 00:06:50,315\n直接說啦我們最近不是還有什麼某某什麼立委啊連那個不那個什麼根本不合格的人都硬塞到某些單位人事的關心採購的關心\n\n19\n00:06:53,362 --> 00:07:09,628\n所以我在這邊公開直接說我們支持這個金額非常龐大我們也認為優先要去做建制尤其我們在離島的部分更需要但是不要因為\n\n20\n00:07:10,708 --> 00:07:11,208\n所以也請當然今天部長他\n\n21\n00:07:32,466 --> 00:07:32,586\n王鴻薇\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t10696\t主席 請徐副部長 還有我們陸軍司令部參謀長王委員好副部長好 參謀長好 延續剛才楊瓊英委員所質詢的題目無人機反制系統是我們\n21344\t50078\t部長顧部長他特別講今年度一個優先採購的項目但是現在招標作業並不順利如同剛才楊瓊英委員所講的因為前兩次一次因為流標只有一家第二次因為兩家的最後的驗證的結果通通不合格也流標所以現在第三次的招標作業但是\n52486\t76733\t這個為什麼會一再的流標啊?支部部長還是參謀長來回答一下這個整個一個平衡過程我看採購室吧光採購室來做的嘛來光採購室來向委員做個說明趕快喔時間有限喔各位委員報告這個他主要第一次流標是因為未達三家我剛講了嗎第二次流標是第二次廢標是因為啊廠商交了樣機啊沒有經過陸軍的這個POC的驗證不合格是好\n80994\t84279\t那為什麼會這樣的狀況事實上在我們這個9億8963萬這個這麼大型的標案的過程裡面包含媒體都有一再的報導\n96478\t123854\t譬如說說你們呢接受這個我先接受這兩套未完成整合的無人機反制系統因為他沒有完成整合然後你看到最後似乎是在為廠商鋪路果不其然最後因為你開出的規格只有一家來做投標所以我剛講就一家嘛最後就留標了\n125073\t152948\t那一家流包沒有關係等第二次嘛等第二次之後呢沒想到突然殺出個陳曉金來了那因為剛才部長 副部長也講回答楊瓊英委員說我們從頭沒有改沒有改但是你們中間有改啦你們中間改了這個公告招標作業呢是把他的軍事裝備的營業稅讓他免稅那造成了大家覺得可能有利可圖\n154148\t179464\t結果跑出一個陳曉金因為如果第二次還是那個似乎這位魔廠商在部落的那個廠商來一家就解決了嘛第二次就解決了沒想到第二次跑來了一個陳曉金跑來跟你一起投標那其結果那投標大家都一起來嘛一起這個來做測試兩個都不合格所以通通又變廢標嘛\n181533\t200489\t所以我要講的是這個高達將近10億的案子這中間包含媒體都一直在做隱喻甚至直接講啦直接點出說看起來應該從第1次到第2次甚至到第3次大家都看好或者認為應該那家創未來會繼續的來投標\n206055\t230171\t第一次就只有一個創未來嘛第二次創未來又來了只是我剛剛講殺出了另外一家公司跑過來投標那所以這個規格真的你們用最高標準嗎符合美國的標準嗎這樣讓外界認為是量身訂做的一個標案其結果就是反反覆覆從7月開始\n232390\t254462\t進入第一次招標程序現在看起來今年底能不能完成能不能達到你們顧立雄部長他所設定的目標看起來都有都有很大的變數所以為什麼在媒體或者外界都認為有特定廠商鋪路而造成了一直延宕\n256286\t270295\t所以副部長能回答嗎?還是參謀長回答?報告委員,我是陸軍參謀長向委員報告第一個,有關於所謂報導有為廠商鋪路或是量身訂做這個絕對不是事實這第一點那我為什麼這樣講?因為啊\n276539\t292125\t他在整個POC的測試他是由所謂的第三方公正還有民間的學者剛剛副部長報告了他包含到相關的航電資訊電子這個是第二個我要報告的第三個\n294626\t310578\t因為她的測試她是在一套標準但是單獨來實施兩家廠商她在不同天來實施但是共同的監測全程錄影而且這個如果說為她鋪路的話事實上她也是不合格的單位因為我剛剛講你們規格就綁在那裡了嘛\n318752\t329223\t這個規格是依照我們的自然需求來訂定的你規格像無人機人家美國比我們先進吧這反制性有沒有先進我們為什麼沒有採取人家美國的標準呢\n330916\t349348\t我們自己找一家特定廠商弄出來的一個規格對不對自己最後又沒有整合成功我們並不是用這家特定廠商的規格就是大家都認為說被這個特定廠商所這個他一定會來投標我們可以拭目以待嘛第三次11月嘛這家廠商會不會出現嘛\n353099\t373750\t有多大機率這家廠商會不會出現因為他沒有停權這是他投標的自由但是我代表其他的廠商沒有比他優的規格這個第二次的這個突然出現了一個陳咬金就不在你們的劇情之內嘛本來劇情是寫這樣子怎麼跑出一家所以我在這邊特別質詢的是\n377992\t395941\t無人機反制系統之重要也是你們國防部視為優先的採購項目但是請不要因為特殊的原因特殊的人事的關心我聽到的更多\n397642\t410315\t直接說啦我們最近不是還有什麼某某什麼立委啊連那個不那個什麼根本不合格的人都硬塞到某些單位人事的關心採購的關心\n413362\t429628\t所以我在這邊公開直接說我們支持這個金額非常龐大我們也認為優先要去做建制尤其我們在離島的部分更需要但是不要因為\n430708\t431208\t所以也請當然今天部長他\n452466\t452586\t王鴻薇\n","txt":"主席 請徐副部長 還有我們陸軍司令部參謀長王委員好副部長好 參謀長好 延續剛才楊瓊英委員所質詢的題目無人機反制系統是我們\n部長顧部長他特別講今年度一個優先採購的項目但是現在招標作業並不順利如同剛才楊瓊英委員所講的因為前兩次一次因為流標只有一家第二次因為兩家的最後的驗證的結果通通不合格也流標所以現在第三次的招標作業但是\n這個為什麼會一再的流標啊?支部部長還是參謀長來回答一下這個整個一個平衡過程我看採購室吧光採購室來做的嘛來光採購室來向委員做個說明趕快喔時間有限喔各位委員報告這個他主要第一次流標是因為未達三家我剛講了嗎第二次流標是第二次廢標是因為啊廠商交了樣機啊沒有經過陸軍的這個POC的驗證不合格是好\n那為什麼會這樣的狀況事實上在我們這個9億8963萬這個這麼大型的標案的過程裡面包含媒體都有一再的報導\n譬如說說你們呢接受這個我先接受這兩套未完成整合的無人機反制系統因為他沒有完成整合然後你看到最後似乎是在為廠商鋪路果不其然最後因為你開出的規格只有一家來做投標所以我剛講就一家嘛最後就留標了\n那一家流包沒有關係等第二次嘛等第二次之後呢沒想到突然殺出個陳曉金來了那因為剛才部長 副部長也講回答楊瓊英委員說我們從頭沒有改沒有改但是你們中間有改啦你們中間改了這個公告招標作業呢是把他的軍事裝備的營業稅讓他免稅那造成了大家覺得可能有利可圖\n結果跑出一個陳曉金因為如果第二次還是那個似乎這位魔廠商在部落的那個廠商來一家就解決了嘛第二次就解決了沒想到第二次跑來了一個陳曉金跑來跟你一起投標那其結果那投標大家都一起來嘛一起這個來做測試兩個都不合格所以通通又變廢標嘛\n所以我要講的是這個高達將近10億的案子這中間包含媒體都一直在做隱喻甚至直接講啦直接點出說看起來應該從第1次到第2次甚至到第3次大家都看好或者認為應該那家創未來會繼續的來投標\n第一次就只有一個創未來嘛第二次創未來又來了只是我剛剛講殺出了另外一家公司跑過來投標那所以這個規格真的你們用最高標準嗎符合美國的標準嗎這樣讓外界認為是量身訂做的一個標案其結果就是反反覆覆從7月開始\n進入第一次招標程序現在看起來今年底能不能完成能不能達到你們顧立雄部長他所設定的目標看起來都有都有很大的變數所以為什麼在媒體或者外界都認為有特定廠商鋪路而造成了一直延宕\n所以副部長能回答嗎?還是參謀長回答?報告委員,我是陸軍參謀長向委員報告第一個,有關於所謂報導有為廠商鋪路或是量身訂做這個絕對不是事實這第一點那我為什麼這樣講?因為啊\n他在整個POC的測試他是由所謂的第三方公正還有民間的學者剛剛副部長報告了他包含到相關的航電資訊電子這個是第二個我要報告的第三個\n因為她的測試她是在一套標準但是單獨來實施兩家廠商她在不同天來實施但是共同的監測全程錄影而且這個如果說為她鋪路的話事實上她也是不合格的單位因為我剛剛講你們規格就綁在那裡了嘛\n這個規格是依照我們的自然需求來訂定的你規格像無人機人家美國比我們先進吧這反制性有沒有先進我們為什麼沒有採取人家美國的標準呢\n我們自己找一家特定廠商弄出來的一個規格對不對自己最後又沒有整合成功我們並不是用這家特定廠商的規格就是大家都認為說被這個特定廠商所這個他一定會來投標我們可以拭目以待嘛第三次11月嘛這家廠商會不會出現嘛\n有多大機率這家廠商會不會出現因為他沒有停權這是他投標的自由但是我代表其他的廠商沒有比他優的規格這個第二次的這個突然出現了一個陳咬金就不在你們的劇情之內嘛本來劇情是寫這樣子怎麼跑出一家所以我在這邊特別質詢的是\n無人機反制系統之重要也是你們國防部視為優先的採購項目但是請不要因為特殊的原因特殊的人事的關心我聽到的更多\n直接說啦我們最近不是還有什麼某某什麼立委啊連那個不那個什麼根本不合格的人都硬塞到某些單位人事的關心採購的關心\n所以我在這邊公開直接說我們支持這個金額非常龐大我們也認為優先要去做建制尤其我們在離島的部分更需要但是不要因為\n所以也請當然今天部長他\n王鴻薇\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:10.696\n主席請徐副部長還有我們陸軍司令部參謀長王委員好副部長好參謀長好延續剛才楊瓊英委員所質詢的題目無人機反制系統是我們\n\n00:21.344 --> 00:50.078\n部長顧部長他特別講今年度一個優先採購的項目但是現在招標作業並不順利如同剛才楊瓊英委員所講的因為前兩次一次因為流標只有一家第二次因為兩家的最後的驗證的結果通通不合格也流標所以現在第三次的招標作業但是\n\n00:52.486 --> 01:16.733\n這個為什麼會一再的流標啊?支部部長還是參謀長來回答一下這個整個一個平衡過程我看採購室吧光採購室來做的嘛來光採購室來向委員做個說明趕快喔時間有限喔各位委員報告這個他主要第一次流標是因為未達三家我剛講了嗎第二次流標是第二次廢標是因為啊廠商交了樣機啊沒有經過陸軍的這個POC的驗證不合格是好\n\n01:20.994 --> 01:24.279\n那為什麼會這樣的狀況事實上在我們這個9億8963萬這個這麼大型的標案的過程裡面包含媒體都有一再的報導\n\n01:36.478 --> 02:03.854\n譬如說說你們呢接受這個我先接受這兩套未完成整合的無人機反制系統因為他沒有完成整合然後你看到最後似乎是在為廠商鋪路果不其然最後因為你開出的規格只有一家來做投標所以我剛講就一家嘛最後就留標了\n\n02:05.073 --> 02:32.948\n那一家流包沒有關係等第二次嘛等第二次之後呢沒想到突然殺出個陳曉金來了那因為剛才部長副部長也講回答楊瓊英委員說我們從頭沒有改沒有改但是你們中間有改啦你們中間改了這個公告招標作業呢是把他的軍事裝備的營業稅讓他免稅那造成了大家覺得可能有利可圖\n\n02:34.148 --> 02:59.464\n結果跑出一個陳曉金因為如果第二次還是那個似乎這位魔廠商在部落的那個廠商來一家就解決了嘛第二次就解決了沒想到第二次跑來了一個陳曉金跑來跟你一起投標那其結果那投標大家都一起來嘛一起這個來做測試兩個都不合格所以通通又變廢標嘛\n\n03:01.533 --> 03:20.489\n所以我要講的是這個高達將近10億的案子這中間包含媒體都一直在做隱喻甚至直接講啦直接點出說看起來應該從第1次到第2次甚至到第3次大家都看好或者認為應該那家創未來會繼續的來投標\n\n03:26.055 --> 03:50.171\n第一次就只有一個創未來嘛第二次創未來又來了只是我剛剛講殺出了另外一家公司跑過來投標那所以這個規格真的你們用最高標準嗎符合美國的標準嗎這樣讓外界認為是量身訂做的一個標案其結果就是反反覆覆從7月開始\n\n03:52.390 --> 04:14.462\n進入第一次招標程序現在看起來今年底能不能完成能不能達到你們顧立雄部長他所設定的目標看起來都有都有很大的變數所以為什麼在媒體或者外界都認為有特定廠商鋪路而造成了一直延宕\n\n04:16.286 --> 04:30.295\n所以副部長能回答嗎?還是參謀長回答?報告委員,我是陸軍參謀長向委員報告第一個,有關於所謂報導有為廠商鋪路或是量身訂做這個絕對不是事實這第一點那我為什麼這樣講?因為啊\n\n04:36.539 --> 04:52.125\n他在整個POC的測試他是由所謂的第三方公正還有民間的學者剛剛副部長報告了他包含到相關的航電資訊電子這個是第二個我要報告的第三個\n\n04:54.626 --> 05:10.578\n因為她的測試她是在一套標準但是單獨來實施兩家廠商她在不同天來實施但是共同的監測全程錄影而且這個如果說為她鋪路的話事實上她也是不合格的單位因為我剛剛講你們規格就綁在那裡了嘛\n\n05:18.752 --> 05:29.223\n這個規格是依照我們的自然需求來訂定的你規格像無人機人家美國比我們先進吧這反制性有沒有先進我們為什麼沒有採取人家美國的標準呢\n\n05:30.916 --> 05:49.348\n我們自己找一家特定廠商弄出來的一個規格對不對自己最後又沒有整合成功我們並不是用這家特定廠商的規格就是大家都認為說被這個特定廠商所這個他一定會來投標我們可以拭目以待嘛第三次11月嘛這家廠商會不會出現嘛\n\n05:53.099 --> 06:13.750\n有多大機率這家廠商會不會出現因為他沒有停權這是他投標的自由但是我代表其他的廠商沒有比他優的規格這個第二次的這個突然出現了一個陳咬金就不在你們的劇情之內嘛本來劇情是寫這樣子怎麼跑出一家所以我在這邊特別質詢的是\n\n06:17.992 --> 06:35.941\n無人機反制系統之重要也是你們國防部視為優先的採購項目但是請不要因為特殊的原因特殊的人事的關心我聽到的更多\n\n06:37.642 --> 06:50.315\n直接說啦我們最近不是還有什麼某某什麼立委啊連那個不那個什麼根本不合格的人都硬塞到某些單位人事的關心採購的關心\n\n06:53.362 --> 07:09.628\n所以我在這邊公開直接說我們支持這個金額非常龐大我們也認為優先要去做建制尤其我們在離島的部分更需要但是不要因為\n\n07:10.708 --> 07:11.208\n所以也請當然今天部長他\n\n07:32.466 --> 07:32.586\n王鴻薇\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":10.696,"text":"主席 請徐副部長 還有我們陸軍司令部參謀長王委員好副部長好 參謀長好 延續剛才楊瓊英委員所質詢的題目無人機反制系統是我們"},{"start":21.344,"end":50.078,"text":"部長顧部長他特別講今年度一個優先採購的項目但是現在招標作業並不順利如同剛才楊瓊英委員所講的因為前兩次一次因為流標只有一家第二次因為兩家的最後的驗證的結果通通不合格也流標所以現在第三次的招標作業但是"},{"start":52.486,"end":76.733,"text":"這個為什麼會一再的流標啊?支部部長還是參謀長來回答一下這個整個一個平衡過程我看採購室吧光採購室來做的嘛來光採購室來向委員做個說明趕快喔時間有限喔各位委員報告這個他主要第一次流標是因為未達三家我剛講了嗎第二次流標是第二次廢標是因為啊廠商交了樣機啊沒有經過陸軍的這個POC的驗證不合格是好"},{"start":80.994,"end":84.279,"text":"那為什麼會這樣的狀況事實上在我們這個9億8963萬這個這麼大型的標案的過程裡面包含媒體都有一再的報導"},{"start":96.478,"end":123.854,"text":"譬如說說你們呢接受這個我先接受這兩套未完成整合的無人機反制系統因為他沒有完成整合然後你看到最後似乎是在為廠商鋪路果不其然最後因為你開出的規格只有一家來做投標所以我剛講就一家嘛最後就留標了"},{"start":125.073,"end":152.948,"text":"那一家流包沒有關係等第二次嘛等第二次之後呢沒想到突然殺出個陳曉金來了那因為剛才部長 副部長也講回答楊瓊英委員說我們從頭沒有改沒有改但是你們中間有改啦你們中間改了這個公告招標作業呢是把他的軍事裝備的營業稅讓他免稅那造成了大家覺得可能有利可圖"},{"start":154.148,"end":179.464,"text":"結果跑出一個陳曉金因為如果第二次還是那個似乎這位魔廠商在部落的那個廠商來一家就解決了嘛第二次就解決了沒想到第二次跑來了一個陳曉金跑來跟你一起投標那其結果那投標大家都一起來嘛一起這個來做測試兩個都不合格所以通通又變廢標嘛"},{"start":181.533,"end":200.489,"text":"所以我要講的是這個高達將近10億的案子這中間包含媒體都一直在做隱喻甚至直接講啦直接點出說看起來應該從第1次到第2次甚至到第3次大家都看好或者認為應該那家創未來會繼續的來投標"},{"start":206.055,"end":230.171,"text":"第一次就只有一個創未來嘛第二次創未來又來了只是我剛剛講殺出了另外一家公司跑過來投標那所以這個規格真的你們用最高標準嗎符合美國的標準嗎這樣讓外界認為是量身訂做的一個標案其結果就是反反覆覆從7月開始"},{"start":232.39,"end":254.462,"text":"進入第一次招標程序現在看起來今年底能不能完成能不能達到你們顧立雄部長他所設定的目標看起來都有都有很大的變數所以為什麼在媒體或者外界都認為有特定廠商鋪路而造成了一直延宕"},{"start":256.286,"end":270.295,"text":"所以副部長能回答嗎?還是參謀長回答?報告委員,我是陸軍參謀長向委員報告第一個,有關於所謂報導有為廠商鋪路或是量身訂做這個絕對不是事實這第一點那我為什麼這樣講?因為啊"},{"start":276.539,"end":292.125,"text":"他在整個POC的測試他是由所謂的第三方公正還有民間的學者剛剛副部長報告了他包含到相關的航電資訊電子這個是第二個我要報告的第三個"},{"start":294.626,"end":310.578,"text":"因為她的測試她是在一套標準但是單獨來實施兩家廠商她在不同天來實施但是共同的監測全程錄影而且這個如果說為她鋪路的話事實上她也是不合格的單位因為我剛剛講你們規格就綁在那裡了嘛"},{"start":318.752,"end":329.223,"text":"這個規格是依照我們的自然需求來訂定的你規格像無人機人家美國比我們先進吧這反制性有沒有先進我們為什麼沒有採取人家美國的標準呢"},{"start":330.916,"end":349.348,"text":"我們自己找一家特定廠商弄出來的一個規格對不對自己最後又沒有整合成功我們並不是用這家特定廠商的規格就是大家都認為說被這個特定廠商所這個他一定會來投標我們可以拭目以待嘛第三次11月嘛這家廠商會不會出現嘛"},{"start":353.099,"end":373.75,"text":"有多大機率這家廠商會不會出現因為他沒有停權這是他投標的自由但是我代表其他的廠商沒有比他優的規格這個第二次的這個突然出現了一個陳咬金就不在你們的劇情之內嘛本來劇情是寫這樣子怎麼跑出一家所以我在這邊特別質詢的是"},{"start":377.992,"end":395.941,"text":"無人機反制系統之重要也是你們國防部視為優先的採購項目但是請不要因為特殊的原因特殊的人事的關心我聽到的更多"},{"start":397.642,"end":410.315,"text":"直接說啦我們最近不是還有什麼某某什麼立委啊連那個不那個什麼根本不合格的人都硬塞到某些單位人事的關心採購的關心"},{"start":413.362,"end":429.628,"text":"所以我在這邊公開直接說我們支持這個金額非常龐大我們也認為優先要去做建制尤其我們在離島的部分更需要但是不要因為"},{"start":430.708,"end":431.208,"text":"所以也請當然今天部長他"},{"start":452.466,"end":452.586,"text":"王鴻薇"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":990,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（12時41分）謝謝主席。請徐副部長。"],["主席：請副部長。"],["王委員鴻薇：還有陸軍司令部參謀長。"],["徐副部長衍璞：王委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：副部長好、參謀長好。延續剛才楊瓊瓔委員所質詢的題目，無人機反制系統是我們顧部長特別講今年度一個優先採購的項目，但是現在招標作業並不順利，如同剛才楊瓊瓔委員所講的，在前兩次，一次因為流標，只有一家，第二次因為兩家最後的驗證結果統統不合格，也流標，所以現在是第三次招標作業。但是為什麼會一再流標啊？"],["徐副部長衍璞：報告委員……"],["王委員鴻薇：是副部長還是參謀長來回答一下。"],["徐副部長衍璞：這整個評核過程，我看是由採購室做的，請國防採購室向委員說明。"],["王委員鴻薇：趕快，我時間有限。"],["趙主任亞平：跟委員報告，第一次流標是因為未達三家。"],["王委員鴻薇：我剛剛講了嘛！"],["趙主任亞平：第二次廢標是因為廠商交了樣機沒有經過陸軍的POC器驗證。"],["王委員鴻薇：都不合格。"],["趙主任亞平：不合格，是。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，為什麼會這樣的狀況？事實上，在我們這個9億8,963萬這麼大型標案的過程，包含媒體都有一再報導指出，你們接受這兩套未完成整合無人機反制系統，你再看到最後提到：「似乎是為廠商在鋪路。」果不其然，最後因為你開出的規格只有一家來投標，所以我剛剛講，只有一家嘛，最後就流標了，流標沒有關係，就等第二次嘛！第二次之後沒想到突然殺出個程咬金，因為剛才副部長回答楊瓊瓔委員的時候說我們統統沒有改，但是你們中間有改，你們中間改了公告招標作業，是讓軍事裝備營業稅免稅，造成大家覺得可能有利可圖，結果跑出一個程咬金。因為如果第二次還是似乎在為某廠商鋪路的那個廠商來，那就一家就解決了嘛！第二次就解決了。沒想到第二次跑來了一個程咬金，跑來一起投標，投標就是大家一起來測試，結果兩個都不合格，所以統統又變成廢標了。所以我要講的是這個高達將近10億的案子，中間包含媒體都一直在隱喻，甚至直接講，直接點出看起來從第一次到第二次，甚至到第三次，大家都看好，或者認為那家創未來應該會繼續來投標，第一次就只有一個創未來，第二次創未來又來了，只是我剛剛講殺出了另外一家公司跑過來投標。所以這個規格，你們真的用最高標準嗎？符合美國的標準嗎？這樣讓外界認為是量身訂作的一個標案，其結果就是反反覆覆，從7月開始進入第一次招標程序，現在看起來今年底能不能完成、能不能達到你們顧立雄部長他所設定的目標？看起來都有很大的變數。所以為什麼在媒體或者外界都認為有為某特定廠商鋪路，而造成一直延宕？副部長能回答嗎？還是參謀長回答？"],["陳參謀長建義：報告委員，我是陸軍參謀長，向委員報告。"],["王委員鴻薇：是。"],["陳參謀長建義：第一個，有關所謂報導有為廠商鋪路，或是量身訂作這個……"],["王委員鴻薇：絕無此事？"],["陳參謀長建義：絕對不是事實！這第一點。"],["王委員鴻薇：這個我都可以幫你講。"],["陳參謀長建義：那我為什麼這樣講，第二，因為在整個POC測試，它是由所謂的第三方公證，還有民間的學者，剛剛副部長報告了，它包括相關的航電、資訊、電子……"],["王委員鴻薇：對，你的意思是說，你看我都沒有讓它pass，對不對？"],["陳參謀長建義：這個是第二個我要報告的。第三個，因為它的測試是在一套標準，但是單獨實施，兩家廠商在不同天實施，但是共同監測、全程錄影，如果說是為它鋪路的話，事實上它也是不合格的單位。"],["王委員鴻薇：因為我時間有限。參謀長，我不需要你答非所問，因為我剛剛講了，你們規格就綁在那裡了嘛！這不是你後面測試的問題……"],["陳參謀長建義：報告委員，這個規格是依照我們的作戰需求來訂定的。"],["王委員鴻薇：像無人機的規格，人家美國的反制系統比我們先進吧，我們為什麼沒有採取人家美國的標準呢？我們自己找一家特定廠商弄出來的規格對不對？自己最後又沒有整合成功……"],["陳參謀長建義：報告委員，我們並不是用這家特定廠商的規格。"],["王委員鴻薇：最後變成大家都認為這個特定廠商一定會來投標，我們可以拭目以待嘛！第三次在11月，這家廠商會不會出現？有多大機率這家廠商會出現？"],["陳參謀長建義：這家廠商會不會出現，因為它沒有停權，這是它投標的自由。"],["王委員鴻薇：是。"],["陳參謀長建義：但是不代表其他廠商沒有比它優的規格。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以我就跟你講，第二次突然出現一個程咬金就不在你們的劇情之內嘛！本來劇情是寫這樣子，怎麼又跑出一家？"],["陳參謀長建義：報告委員，完全沒有這樣的預設。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以我在這邊特別質詢的是，無人機反制系統之重要，也是你們國防部視為優先的採購項目，但是請不要因為特殊的原因、特殊的人事的關心，我聽到的更多，直接說啦！最近不是還有什麼某某立委將根本不合格的人硬塞到某些單位，這就是人事的關心、採購的關心，所以我在這邊公開直接說，我們支持，而這個金額非常龐大，我們也認為應該優先建置，尤其在我們離島的部分更需要，但是不要因為要為特殊廠商量身訂作，不要因為要向特殊人士交代，而使得我們這個標案一再延宕，其結果是我們大家一起付代價，這是我今天在這邊苦口婆心，好不好？當然今天部長請假不在，我覺得你們要反映給部長知道，你很著急，但是在這個流程上，只要這個流程出現想要為人家量身訂作，其結果就是如此！好不好？謝謝。"],["徐副部長衍璞：感謝委員指導，謝謝。"],["王委員鴻薇：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王鴻薇委員，副部長請回。","邱志偉、邱志偉、邱志偉委員不在。","接下來我們請黃捷委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":166,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-8","speakers":["林憶君","羅美玲","陳永康","王定宇","沈伯洋","林楚茵","陳冠廷","黃仁","洪申翰","馬文君","徐巧芯","賴士葆","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","羅智強","楊瓊瓔","王鴻薇","黃捷"],"page_start":105,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1138901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1138901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長報告「國軍無人機運用現況與未來發展機會及挑戰，並就協助中科院推動民雄航\n太暨無人機產業園區的開發作業進度及概況」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1138901_00002"}}}