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\"start\": 350.519, \"end\": 350.539, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,169 --> 00:00:04,831\n今天一樣要討論這個客運的問題啦其實上一次部長在做業報的時候我就已經把話講得非常清楚了現在客運業者的問題\n\n2\n00:00:15,916 --> 00:00:42,632\n第一個這個乘客量在疫情過後開始逐漸攀升但是基本上疫情這一波把大部分客運業者都打趴了另外就是說駕駛人數其實從總體來看是一個下降趨勢那不只是人數變少而已還有高齡化的問題那你知道高齡駕駛總是相對危險所以客運業業者跟客運業的人力的新陳代謝它其實是非常重要的事情所以說客運缺工駕駛高齡化其實是交通部要面對的很重要的問題部長同意嗎\n\n3\n00:00:43,072 --> 00:01:10,843\n同意好現在喔這個人才大量流失了為什麼請部長回答一方面勞動條件一方面薪資的問題那再來就是說當時因為疫情所以很多的客運業者的狀況不太好很多的人才就直接流失了那也直接就轉到其他的行業去要回來不太容易再來還有一點就是大家對於客運的這個服務的品質要求其實蠻高的沒錯很多的客運的司機員大家都反映說壓力相當的大好\n\n4\n00:01:11,623 --> 00:01:35,664\n不錯部長這次回答我是非常滿意基本上完全命中第一個叫疫情重挫乘車需求嘛讓業者的營運狀況雪上加霜第二個基本上是因為勞基法修了一例一休之後當然要保障他們的工時這本席完全同意可是相對來講這造成了這個實務上的一些競合的狀況也就是說客運業者有些他可能真的是生活啊非常非常辛苦加了一份薪水他後來算了一下發現最近有新聞開始講啊我去開Uber去跑外送加起來搞不好\n\n5\n00:01:36,604 --> 00:02:05,280\n勞動時間一樣長他寧願讓自己過勞但是他可以賺的錢比較多他不受這樣子的一個規範所以他相對來講又吃掉了一部分司機的緣額第三個就是勞動的環境跟條件除了薪資不高之外常常被人家客訴每次要等這個待命的時候在破破爛爛的場站裡面連躺下來休息的地方都沒有這些勞動環境的不佳也是客運司機心灰意冷的原因部長問題意識非常清楚但是解決方案不清楚\n\n6\n00:02:05,780 --> 00:02:33,426\n問題意思清楚也沒有用嘛是不是部長是以這一段時間來講我們剛剛講因為疫情的關係我們必須要先幫客運業者打幾劑強心針讓他們至少願意留在市場上更有甚者你必須拿政府的補貼來增加駕駛的薪水方向都正確但這個額度能看嗎部長部長我們總共有幾家全國有幾家國道客運業者這個數字我不曉得齁但是欸這數字是你交通部的業報寫的捏那是不是今天的報告大家桌上都有請局長你要不要說明一下\n\n7\n00:02:38,495 --> 00:03:01,167\n加速的部分就是客運業者有300多家然後你運價這樣總共因為你講嘛差額由政府補貼一年額度是1.3億這個是一般的一般公路客運那還有國道客運的我知道但我的意思是說這個額度啊其實是不成比例的\n\n8\n00:03:01,667 --> 00:03:28,283\n今天的問題已經很嚴重嚴重到基本上業者都送進家務病房司機通通不願意來他如果是這麼嚴重的狀況你還在說吃感冒藥要上葉克膜的病人你給他吃感冒藥有用嗎其實是沒有用的我要提醒部長我希望部長上次我們討論的時候我說部長相對年輕應該要拿出魄力我們在整個政府在交通裡面的這個相關的預算隨便拿出來比一條你就發現那個落差其實非常巨大捷運工程很重要本席完全同意可是相對來講硬體跟軟體總要\n\n9\n00:03:31,025 --> 00:03:43,801\n總要平衡吧你看這個比例差額也是不能看每年我們要再下載當然補助各地方政府協助建設加起來幾千億那是跑不掉的但是相對來講你整個全國客運的補貼加加起來\n\n10\n00:03:44,775 --> 00:04:10,175\n不到捷運的一根毛啊這就是問題嘛新政府上任之後我們期待他是有新的思維五百億投資在科運業者可能很多狀況改變了你這真的大筆的預算政策方向的大的調整出來的時候我們才能夠大幅度的比如說改善運價的條件我幫科運業者專案加薪這是本期的第一個建議啦但我到現在沒等到從本期就任立法委員以來從看守內閣我就問這個事您上任的時候其實我也提過這個事\n\n11\n00:04:10,936 --> 00:04:34,784\n我不曉得這個是什麼時候才會落實但我真的很誠懇的希望交通部面對問題的核心其實就是交通部要不要做一個資源的結構性的調整讓公車這件事情變成交通部的重點業務目標有相應的資源跟人力下去的時候你才有辦法大幅度的改善事情要不然像上次運價調整那個調整搞了一年多溝通就調了一塊兩毛五\n\n12\n00:04:35,484 --> 00:04:55,766\n那個跟葉澤泰根本沒有解決問題啊因為那個大部分是由政府吸收所以民眾影響的比較對你為了擔心這個東西那你擔心的時候你政府的我剛剛為什麼講要有個幾百億的預算規模就是因為不要衝擊民眾搭車的情況因為你要養量嘛你不衝擊的情況下你政府當然要下大資源嘛那我講我說下個五百億在全國的公車系統不虧啊\n\n13\n00:04:56,326 --> 00:05:20,605\n因為客運跟公車的量養起來也是幫未來的捷運在養量啊也是在減少塞車跟停車的問題絕對划算所以預算的大幅投入我期待交通部可以作為第二個是有關勞動條件的部分我今天點一下後面我們有時間再做討論客運的場站公共汽車的停車場從來沒有在我們的都市計畫或者是區域計畫裡面被深刻的討論但它有沒有需要?它有需要\n\n14\n00:05:20,885 --> 00:05:48,794\n因為它是交通節點它也可以改善業者的投資環境也改善司機的勞動環境這件事情如果交通部能夠把它列為重點工作項目在幾個地方先行事辦把這個東西打開也許業者才會感受到我們的政府對這個政策的重視也只有從這種大的方向有魄力來著手才有辦法改善業者倒閉司機缺工的問題來改善公車的品質希望部長可以盡快的提出解決方案可以嗎是好\n\n15\n00:05:49,494 --> 00:05:50,539\n好謝謝好謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n169\t4831\t今天一樣要討論這個客運的問題啦其實上一次部長在做業報的時候我就已經把話講得非常清楚了現在客運業者的問題\n15916\t42632\t第一個這個乘客量在疫情過後開始逐漸攀升但是基本上疫情這一波把大部分客運業者都打趴了另外就是說駕駛人數其實從總體來看是一個下降趨勢那不只是人數變少而已還有高齡化的問題那你知道高齡駕駛總是相對危險所以客運業業者跟客運業的人力的新陳代謝它其實是非常重要的事情所以說客運缺工駕駛高齡化其實是交通部要面對的很重要的問題部長同意嗎\n43072\t70843\t同意好現在喔這個人才大量流失了為什麼請部長回答一方面勞動條件一方面薪資的問題那再來就是說當時因為疫情所以很多的客運業者的狀況不太好很多的人才就直接流失了那也直接就轉到其他的行業去要回來不太容易再來還有一點就是大家對於客運的這個服務的品質要求其實蠻高的沒錯很多的客運的司機員大家都反映說壓力相當的大好\n71623\t95664\t不錯部長這次回答我是非常滿意基本上完全命中第一個叫疫情重挫乘車需求嘛讓業者的營運狀況雪上加霜第二個基本上是因為勞基法修了一例一休之後當然要保障他們的工時這本席完全同意可是相對來講這造成了這個實務上的一些競合的狀況也就是說客運業者有些他可能真的是生活啊非常非常辛苦加了一份薪水他後來算了一下發現最近有新聞開始講啊我去開Uber去跑外送加起來搞不好\n96604\t125280\t勞動時間一樣長他寧願讓自己過勞但是他可以賺的錢比較多他不受這樣子的一個規範所以他相對來講又吃掉了一部分司機的緣額第三個就是勞動的環境跟條件除了薪資不高之外常常被人家客訴每次要等這個待命的時候在破破爛爛的場站裡面連躺下來休息的地方都沒有這些勞動環境的不佳也是客運司機心灰意冷的原因部長問題意識非常清楚但是解決方案不清楚\n125780\t153426\t問題意思清楚也沒有用嘛是不是部長是以這一段時間來講我們剛剛講因為疫情的關係我們必須要先幫客運業者打幾劑強心針讓他們至少願意留在市場上更有甚者你必須拿政府的補貼來增加駕駛的薪水方向都正確但這個額度能看嗎部長部長我們總共有幾家全國有幾家國道客運業者這個數字我不曉得齁但是欸這數字是你交通部的業報寫的捏那是不是今天的報告大家桌上都有請局長你要不要說明一下\n158495\t181167\t加速的部分就是客運業者有300多家然後你運價這樣總共因為你講嘛差額由政府補貼一年額度是1.3億這個是一般的一般公路客運那還有國道客運的我知道但我的意思是說這個額度啊其實是不成比例的\n181667\t208283\t今天的問題已經很嚴重嚴重到基本上業者都送進家務病房司機通通不願意來他如果是這麼嚴重的狀況你還在說吃感冒藥要上葉克膜的病人你給他吃感冒藥有用嗎其實是沒有用的我要提醒部長我希望部長上次我們討論的時候我說部長相對年輕應該要拿出魄力我們在整個政府在交通裡面的這個相關的預算隨便拿出來比一條你就發現那個落差其實非常巨大捷運工程很重要本席完全同意可是相對來講硬體跟軟體總要\n211025\t223801\t總要平衡吧你看這個比例差額也是不能看每年我們要再下載當然補助各地方政府協助建設加起來幾千億那是跑不掉的但是相對來講你整個全國客運的補貼加加起來\n224775\t250175\t不到捷運的一根毛啊這就是問題嘛新政府上任之後我們期待他是有新的思維五百億投資在科運業者可能很多狀況改變了你這真的大筆的預算政策方向的大的調整出來的時候我們才能夠大幅度的比如說改善運價的條件我幫科運業者專案加薪這是本期的第一個建議啦但我到現在沒等到從本期就任立法委員以來從看守內閣我就問這個事您上任的時候其實我也提過這個事\n250936\t274784\t我不曉得這個是什麼時候才會落實但我真的很誠懇的希望交通部面對問題的核心其實就是交通部要不要做一個資源的結構性的調整讓公車這件事情變成交通部的重點業務目標有相應的資源跟人力下去的時候你才有辦法大幅度的改善事情要不然像上次運價調整那個調整搞了一年多溝通就調了一塊兩毛五\n275484\t295766\t那個跟葉澤泰根本沒有解決問題啊因為那個大部分是由政府吸收所以民眾影響的比較對你為了擔心這個東西那你擔心的時候你政府的我剛剛為什麼講要有個幾百億的預算規模就是因為不要衝擊民眾搭車的情況因為你要養量嘛你不衝擊的情況下你政府當然要下大資源嘛那我講我說下個五百億在全國的公車系統不虧啊\n296326\t320605\t因為客運跟公車的量養起來也是幫未來的捷運在養量啊也是在減少塞車跟停車的問題絕對划算所以預算的大幅投入我期待交通部可以作為第二個是有關勞動條件的部分我今天點一下後面我們有時間再做討論客運的場站公共汽車的停車場從來沒有在我們的都市計畫或者是區域計畫裡面被深刻的討論但它有沒有需要?它有需要\n320885\t348794\t因為它是交通節點它也可以改善業者的投資環境也改善司機的勞動環境這件事情如果交通部能夠把它列為重點工作項目在幾個地方先行事辦把這個東西打開也許業者才會感受到我們的政府對這個政策的重視也只有從這種大的方向有魄力來著手才有辦法改善業者倒閉司機缺工的問題來改善公車的品質希望部長可以盡快的提出解決方案可以嗎是 好\n349494\t350539\t好 謝謝好 謝謝委員\n","txt":"今天一樣要討論這個客運的問題啦其實上一次部長在做業報的時候我就已經把話講得非常清楚了現在客運業者的問題\n第一個這個乘客量在疫情過後開始逐漸攀升但是基本上疫情這一波把大部分客運業者都打趴了另外就是說駕駛人數其實從總體來看是一個下降趨勢那不只是人數變少而已還有高齡化的問題那你知道高齡駕駛總是相對危險所以客運業業者跟客運業的人力的新陳代謝它其實是非常重要的事情所以說客運缺工駕駛高齡化其實是交通部要面對的很重要的問題部長同意嗎\n同意好現在喔這個人才大量流失了為什麼請部長回答一方面勞動條件一方面薪資的問題那再來就是說當時因為疫情所以很多的客運業者的狀況不太好很多的人才就直接流失了那也直接就轉到其他的行業去要回來不太容易再來還有一點就是大家對於客運的這個服務的品質要求其實蠻高的沒錯很多的客運的司機員大家都反映說壓力相當的大好\n不錯部長這次回答我是非常滿意基本上完全命中第一個叫疫情重挫乘車需求嘛讓業者的營運狀況雪上加霜第二個基本上是因為勞基法修了一例一休之後當然要保障他們的工時這本席完全同意可是相對來講這造成了這個實務上的一些競合的狀況也就是說客運業者有些他可能真的是生活啊非常非常辛苦加了一份薪水他後來算了一下發現最近有新聞開始講啊我去開Uber去跑外送加起來搞不好\n勞動時間一樣長他寧願讓自己過勞但是他可以賺的錢比較多他不受這樣子的一個規範所以他相對來講又吃掉了一部分司機的緣額第三個就是勞動的環境跟條件除了薪資不高之外常常被人家客訴每次要等這個待命的時候在破破爛爛的場站裡面連躺下來休息的地方都沒有這些勞動環境的不佳也是客運司機心灰意冷的原因部長問題意識非常清楚但是解決方案不清楚\n問題意思清楚也沒有用嘛是不是部長是以這一段時間來講我們剛剛講因為疫情的關係我們必須要先幫客運業者打幾劑強心針讓他們至少願意留在市場上更有甚者你必須拿政府的補貼來增加駕駛的薪水方向都正確但這個額度能看嗎部長部長我們總共有幾家全國有幾家國道客運業者這個數字我不曉得齁但是欸這數字是你交通部的業報寫的捏那是不是今天的報告大家桌上都有請局長你要不要說明一下\n加速的部分就是客運業者有300多家然後你運價這樣總共因為你講嘛差額由政府補貼一年額度是1.3億這個是一般的一般公路客運那還有國道客運的我知道但我的意思是說這個額度啊其實是不成比例的\n今天的問題已經很嚴重嚴重到基本上業者都送進家務病房司機通通不願意來他如果是這麼嚴重的狀況你還在說吃感冒藥要上葉克膜的病人你給他吃感冒藥有用嗎其實是沒有用的我要提醒部長我希望部長上次我們討論的時候我說部長相對年輕應該要拿出魄力我們在整個政府在交通裡面的這個相關的預算隨便拿出來比一條你就發現那個落差其實非常巨大捷運工程很重要本席完全同意可是相對來講硬體跟軟體總要\n總要平衡吧你看這個比例差額也是不能看每年我們要再下載當然補助各地方政府協助建設加起來幾千億那是跑不掉的但是相對來講你整個全國客運的補貼加加起來\n不到捷運的一根毛啊這就是問題嘛新政府上任之後我們期待他是有新的思維五百億投資在科運業者可能很多狀況改變了你這真的大筆的預算政策方向的大的調整出來的時候我們才能夠大幅度的比如說改善運價的條件我幫科運業者專案加薪這是本期的第一個建議啦但我到現在沒等到從本期就任立法委員以來從看守內閣我就問這個事您上任的時候其實我也提過這個事\n我不曉得這個是什麼時候才會落實但我真的很誠懇的希望交通部面對問題的核心其實就是交通部要不要做一個資源的結構性的調整讓公車這件事情變成交通部的重點業務目標有相應的資源跟人力下去的時候你才有辦法大幅度的改善事情要不然像上次運價調整那個調整搞了一年多溝通就調了一塊兩毛五\n那個跟葉澤泰根本沒有解決問題啊因為那個大部分是由政府吸收所以民眾影響的比較對你為了擔心這個東西那你擔心的時候你政府的我剛剛為什麼講要有個幾百億的預算規模就是因為不要衝擊民眾搭車的情況因為你要養量嘛你不衝擊的情況下你政府當然要下大資源嘛那我講我說下個五百億在全國的公車系統不虧啊\n因為客運跟公車的量養起來也是幫未來的捷運在養量啊也是在減少塞車跟停車的問題絕對划算所以預算的大幅投入我期待交通部可以作為第二個是有關勞動條件的部分我今天點一下後面我們有時間再做討論客運的場站公共汽車的停車場從來沒有在我們的都市計畫或者是區域計畫裡面被深刻的討論但它有沒有需要?它有需要\n因為它是交通節點它也可以改善業者的投資環境也改善司機的勞動環境這件事情如果交通部能夠把它列為重點工作項目在幾個地方先行事辦把這個東西打開也許業者才會感受到我們的政府對這個政策的重視也只有從這種大的方向有魄力來著手才有辦法改善業者倒閉司機缺工的問題來改善公車的品質希望部長可以盡快的提出解決方案可以嗎是 好\n好 謝謝好 謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.169 --> 00:04.831\n今天一樣要討論這個客運的問題啦其實上一次部長在做業報的時候我就已經把話講得非常清楚了現在客運業者的問題\n\n00:15.916 --> 00:42.632\n第一個這個乘客量在疫情過後開始逐漸攀升但是基本上疫情這一波把大部分客運業者都打趴了另外就是說駕駛人數其實從總體來看是一個下降趨勢那不只是人數變少而已還有高齡化的問題那你知道高齡駕駛總是相對危險所以客運業業者跟客運業的人力的新陳代謝它其實是非常重要的事情所以說客運缺工駕駛高齡化其實是交通部要面對的很重要的問題部長同意嗎\n\n00:43.072 --> 01:10.843\n同意好現在喔這個人才大量流失了為什麼請部長回答一方面勞動條件一方面薪資的問題那再來就是說當時因為疫情所以很多的客運業者的狀況不太好很多的人才就直接流失了那也直接就轉到其他的行業去要回來不太容易再來還有一點就是大家對於客運的這個服務的品質要求其實蠻高的沒錯很多的客運的司機員大家都反映說壓力相當的大好\n\n01:11.623 --> 01:35.664\n不錯部長這次回答我是非常滿意基本上完全命中第一個叫疫情重挫乘車需求嘛讓業者的營運狀況雪上加霜第二個基本上是因為勞基法修了一例一休之後當然要保障他們的工時這本席完全同意可是相對來講這造成了這個實務上的一些競合的狀況也就是說客運業者有些他可能真的是生活啊非常非常辛苦加了一份薪水他後來算了一下發現最近有新聞開始講啊我去開Uber去跑外送加起來搞不好\n\n01:36.604 --> 02:05.280\n勞動時間一樣長他寧願讓自己過勞但是他可以賺的錢比較多他不受這樣子的一個規範所以他相對來講又吃掉了一部分司機的緣額第三個就是勞動的環境跟條件除了薪資不高之外常常被人家客訴每次要等這個待命的時候在破破爛爛的場站裡面連躺下來休息的地方都沒有這些勞動環境的不佳也是客運司機心灰意冷的原因部長問題意識非常清楚但是解決方案不清楚\n\n02:05.780 --> 02:33.426\n問題意思清楚也沒有用嘛是不是部長是以這一段時間來講我們剛剛講因為疫情的關係我們必須要先幫客運業者打幾劑強心針讓他們至少願意留在市場上更有甚者你必須拿政府的補貼來增加駕駛的薪水方向都正確但這個額度能看嗎部長部長我們總共有幾家全國有幾家國道客運業者這個數字我不曉得齁但是欸這數字是你交通部的業報寫的捏那是不是今天的報告大家桌上都有請局長你要不要說明一下\n\n02:38.495 --> 03:01.167\n加速的部分就是客運業者有300多家然後你運價這樣總共因為你講嘛差額由政府補貼一年額度是1.3億這個是一般的一般公路客運那還有國道客運的我知道但我的意思是說這個額度啊其實是不成比例的\n\n03:01.667 --> 03:28.283\n今天的問題已經很嚴重嚴重到基本上業者都送進家務病房司機通通不願意來他如果是這麼嚴重的狀況你還在說吃感冒藥要上葉克膜的病人你給他吃感冒藥有用嗎其實是沒有用的我要提醒部長我希望部長上次我們討論的時候我說部長相對年輕應該要拿出魄力我們在整個政府在交通裡面的這個相關的預算隨便拿出來比一條你就發現那個落差其實非常巨大捷運工程很重要本席完全同意可是相對來講硬體跟軟體總要\n\n03:31.025 --> 03:43.801\n總要平衡吧你看這個比例差額也是不能看每年我們要再下載當然補助各地方政府協助建設加起來幾千億那是跑不掉的但是相對來講你整個全國客運的補貼加加起來\n\n03:44.775 --> 04:10.175\n不到捷運的一根毛啊這就是問題嘛新政府上任之後我們期待他是有新的思維五百億投資在科運業者可能很多狀況改變了你這真的大筆的預算政策方向的大的調整出來的時候我們才能夠大幅度的比如說改善運價的條件我幫科運業者專案加薪這是本期的第一個建議啦但我到現在沒等到從本期就任立法委員以來從看守內閣我就問這個事您上任的時候其實我也提過這個事\n\n04:10.936 --> 04:34.784\n我不曉得這個是什麼時候才會落實但我真的很誠懇的希望交通部面對問題的核心其實就是交通部要不要做一個資源的結構性的調整讓公車這件事情變成交通部的重點業務目標有相應的資源跟人力下去的時候你才有辦法大幅度的改善事情要不然像上次運價調整那個調整搞了一年多溝通就調了一塊兩毛五\n\n04:35.484 --> 04:55.766\n那個跟葉澤泰根本沒有解決問題啊因為那個大部分是由政府吸收所以民眾影響的比較對你為了擔心這個東西那你擔心的時候你政府的我剛剛為什麼講要有個幾百億的預算規模就是因為不要衝擊民眾搭車的情況因為你要養量嘛你不衝擊的情況下你政府當然要下大資源嘛那我講我說下個五百億在全國的公車系統不虧啊\n\n04:56.326 --> 05:20.605\n因為客運跟公車的量養起來也是幫未來的捷運在養量啊也是在減少塞車跟停車的問題絕對划算所以預算的大幅投入我期待交通部可以作為第二個是有關勞動條件的部分我今天點一下後面我們有時間再做討論客運的場站公共汽車的停車場從來沒有在我們的都市計畫或者是區域計畫裡面被深刻的討論但它有沒有需要?它有需要\n\n05:20.885 --> 05:48.794\n因為它是交通節點它也可以改善業者的投資環境也改善司機的勞動環境這件事情如果交通部能夠把它列為重點工作項目在幾個地方先行事辦把這個東西打開也許業者才會感受到我們的政府對這個政策的重視也只有從這種大的方向有魄力來著手才有辦法改善業者倒閉司機缺工的問題來改善公車的品質希望部長可以盡快的提出解決方案可以嗎是好\n\n05:49.494 --> 05:50.539\n好謝謝好謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.169,"end":4.831,"text":"今天一樣要討論這個客運的問題啦其實上一次部長在做業報的時候我就已經把話講得非常清楚了現在客運業者的問題"},{"start":15.916,"end":42.632,"text":"第一個這個乘客量在疫情過後開始逐漸攀升但是基本上疫情這一波把大部分客運業者都打趴了另外就是說駕駛人數其實從總體來看是一個下降趨勢那不只是人數變少而已還有高齡化的問題那你知道高齡駕駛總是相對危險所以客運業業者跟客運業的人力的新陳代謝它其實是非常重要的事情所以說客運缺工駕駛高齡化其實是交通部要面對的很重要的問題部長同意嗎"},{"start":43.072,"end":70.843,"text":"同意好現在喔這個人才大量流失了為什麼請部長回答一方面勞動條件一方面薪資的問題那再來就是說當時因為疫情所以很多的客運業者的狀況不太好很多的人才就直接流失了那也直接就轉到其他的行業去要回來不太容易再來還有一點就是大家對於客運的這個服務的品質要求其實蠻高的沒錯很多的客運的司機員大家都反映說壓力相當的大好"},{"start":71.623,"end":95.664,"text":"不錯部長這次回答我是非常滿意基本上完全命中第一個叫疫情重挫乘車需求嘛讓業者的營運狀況雪上加霜第二個基本上是因為勞基法修了一例一休之後當然要保障他們的工時這本席完全同意可是相對來講這造成了這個實務上的一些競合的狀況也就是說客運業者有些他可能真的是生活啊非常非常辛苦加了一份薪水他後來算了一下發現最近有新聞開始講啊我去開Uber去跑外送加起來搞不好"},{"start":96.604,"end":125.28,"text":"勞動時間一樣長他寧願讓自己過勞但是他可以賺的錢比較多他不受這樣子的一個規範所以他相對來講又吃掉了一部分司機的緣額第三個就是勞動的環境跟條件除了薪資不高之外常常被人家客訴每次要等這個待命的時候在破破爛爛的場站裡面連躺下來休息的地方都沒有這些勞動環境的不佳也是客運司機心灰意冷的原因部長問題意識非常清楚但是解決方案不清楚"},{"start":125.78,"end":153.426,"text":"問題意思清楚也沒有用嘛是不是部長是以這一段時間來講我們剛剛講因為疫情的關係我們必須要先幫客運業者打幾劑強心針讓他們至少願意留在市場上更有甚者你必須拿政府的補貼來增加駕駛的薪水方向都正確但這個額度能看嗎部長部長我們總共有幾家全國有幾家國道客運業者這個數字我不曉得齁但是欸這數字是你交通部的業報寫的捏那是不是今天的報告大家桌上都有請局長你要不要說明一下"},{"start":158.495,"end":181.167,"text":"加速的部分就是客運業者有300多家然後你運價這樣總共因為你講嘛差額由政府補貼一年額度是1.3億這個是一般的一般公路客運那還有國道客運的我知道但我的意思是說這個額度啊其實是不成比例的"},{"start":181.667,"end":208.283,"text":"今天的問題已經很嚴重嚴重到基本上業者都送進家務病房司機通通不願意來他如果是這麼嚴重的狀況你還在說吃感冒藥要上葉克膜的病人你給他吃感冒藥有用嗎其實是沒有用的我要提醒部長我希望部長上次我們討論的時候我說部長相對年輕應該要拿出魄力我們在整個政府在交通裡面的這個相關的預算隨便拿出來比一條你就發現那個落差其實非常巨大捷運工程很重要本席完全同意可是相對來講硬體跟軟體總要"},{"start":211.025,"end":223.801,"text":"總要平衡吧你看這個比例差額也是不能看每年我們要再下載當然補助各地方政府協助建設加起來幾千億那是跑不掉的但是相對來講你整個全國客運的補貼加加起來"},{"start":224.775,"end":250.175,"text":"不到捷運的一根毛啊這就是問題嘛新政府上任之後我們期待他是有新的思維五百億投資在科運業者可能很多狀況改變了你這真的大筆的預算政策方向的大的調整出來的時候我們才能夠大幅度的比如說改善運價的條件我幫科運業者專案加薪這是本期的第一個建議啦但我到現在沒等到從本期就任立法委員以來從看守內閣我就問這個事您上任的時候其實我也提過這個事"},{"start":250.936,"end":274.784,"text":"我不曉得這個是什麼時候才會落實但我真的很誠懇的希望交通部面對問題的核心其實就是交通部要不要做一個資源的結構性的調整讓公車這件事情變成交通部的重點業務目標有相應的資源跟人力下去的時候你才有辦法大幅度的改善事情要不然像上次運價調整那個調整搞了一年多溝通就調了一塊兩毛五"},{"start":275.484,"end":295.766,"text":"那個跟葉澤泰根本沒有解決問題啊因為那個大部分是由政府吸收所以民眾影響的比較對你為了擔心這個東西那你擔心的時候你政府的我剛剛為什麼講要有個幾百億的預算規模就是因為不要衝擊民眾搭車的情況因為你要養量嘛你不衝擊的情況下你政府當然要下大資源嘛那我講我說下個五百億在全國的公車系統不虧啊"},{"start":296.326,"end":320.605,"text":"因為客運跟公車的量養起來也是幫未來的捷運在養量啊也是在減少塞車跟停車的問題絕對划算所以預算的大幅投入我期待交通部可以作為第二個是有關勞動條件的部分我今天點一下後面我們有時間再做討論客運的場站公共汽車的停車場從來沒有在我們的都市計畫或者是區域計畫裡面被深刻的討論但它有沒有需要?它有需要"},{"start":320.885,"end":348.794,"text":"因為它是交通節點它也可以改善業者的投資環境也改善司機的勞動環境這件事情如果交通部能夠把它列為重點工作項目在幾個地方先行事辦把這個東西打開也許業者才會感受到我們的政府對這個政策的重視也只有從這種大的方向有魄力來著手才有辦法改善業者倒閉司機缺工的問題來改善公車的品質希望部長可以盡快的提出解決方案可以嗎是 好"},{"start":349.494,"end":350.539,"text":"好 謝謝好 謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":677,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（12時20分）好，謝謝主席。"],["主席：是不是邀一樣的人？"],["牛委員煦庭：對，我看就一樣好了，我們節省時間。今天一樣要討論客運的問題，其實上一次部長在做業報的時候，我就已經把話講得非常清楚了，現在客運業者的問題，第一個，乘客量在疫情過後開始逐漸攀升，但是基本上疫情這一波，把大部分的客運業者都打趴了。另外就是駕駛人數其實從總體來看，是一個下降趨勢，不只是人數變少而已，還有高齡化的問題。你知道高齡駕駛總是相對有危險，所以客運業者跟客運業人力的新陳代謝，是非常重要的事情。客運缺工、駕駛高齡化，其實是交通部要面對的很重要的問題，部長同意嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：同意。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，現在人才大量流失了，為什麼？請部長回答。"],["陳部長世凱：一方面勞動條件，一方面薪資的問題，再來就是當時因為疫情，所以很多客運業者的狀況不太好，很多人才就直接流失了，也直接轉到其他行業去，要回來不太容易。還有一點就是，大家對於客運的服務品質，要求其實滿高的……"],["牛委員煦庭：沒錯。"],["陳部長世凱：所以很多客運的司機員，大家都反映說壓力相當大。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，不錯，部長這次的回答我非常滿意，基本上完全命中。第一個是疫情重挫乘車需求，讓業者的營運狀況雪上加霜。第二個，基本上因為勞基法修了一例一休之後，當然要保障他們的工時，這本席完全同意，可是相對來講，這造成了實務上一些競合的狀況，也就是說客運業者，有些人可能真的是生活非常非常辛苦，家裡只有一份薪水，他後來算了一下發現，最近有新聞開始講，去開Uber、去跑外送，加起來搞不好勞動時間一樣長，他寧願讓自己過勞，但是他可以賺的錢比較多，他不受這樣子的一個規範，所以相對來講又吃掉了一部分司機的員額。第三個就是勞動的環境跟條件，除了薪資不高之外，常常被人家客訴，然後每次要等待班待命的時候，在破破爛爛的場站裡面，連躺下來休息的地方都沒有，這些勞動環境不佳，也是客運司機心灰意冷的原因。部長，問題意思非常清楚，但是解決方案不清楚，問題意思清楚也沒有用，是不是？"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：以這一段時間來講，我們剛剛講的，因為疫情的關係，我們必須要先幫科技業者打幾劑強心針，讓他們至少願意留在市場上，更有甚者，必須拿政府的補貼來增加駕駛的薪水，方向都正確，但這個額度能看嗎？部長，全國總共有幾家國道客運業者？"],["陳部長世凱：這個數字我不曉得，但是……"],["牛委員煦庭：這個數字是你們交通部的業報寫的，今天的報告大家桌上都有，你們要不要說明一下？"],["陳部長世凱：請局長。"],["陳局長文瑞：客運業者有三百多家。"],["牛委員煦庭：三百多家，然後運價這樣總共……你們講的，差額由政府補貼，一年額度1.3億。"],["陳局長文瑞：跟委員報告，這是一般公路客運，還有國道客運……"],["陳部長世凱：這是一般客運的差額。"],["牛委員煦庭：我知道，我的意思是，這個額度其實不成比例，今天的問題已經很嚴重，嚴重到業者都送進加護病房，司機通通不願意來，如果是這麼嚴重的狀況，你還在吃感冒藥，要上葉克膜的病人，給他吃感冒藥有用嗎？其實是沒有用的。我要提醒部長，上次我們討論的時候，我說部長相對年輕，應該要拿出魄力，整個政府在交通裡面的相關預算，隨便拿一條出來比，你就會發現那個落差其實非常巨大，捷運工程很重要，本席完全同意，可是相對來講，硬體跟軟體總要平衡吧，你看這個比例差額也是不能看，每一年要補助各地方政府、協助建設，加起來幾千億是跑不掉的，但相對來講，全國客運的補貼加起來不到捷運的一根毛。這就是問題，新政府上任之後，我們期待他有新的思維，500億投資在客運業者可能很多狀況會改變，大筆預算和政策方向調整出來時，才能夠大幅度改善運價的條件，幫客運業者專案加薪，這是本席的第一個建議，但我到現在沒等到，從本席就任立法委員以來，從看守內閣時我就問這個事，您上任的時候我也提過，我不曉得什麼時候才會落實，但我真的很誠懇地希望交通部面對問題核心，其實就是看交通部要不要做資源結構性的調整，讓公車這件事情變成交通部的重點業務目標，有相應的資源跟人力下去，才有辦法大幅度的改善事情，要不然像上次運價調整，溝通搞了一年多，就只調了一塊兩毛五，對業者來講，根本沒有解決問題。"],["陳部長世凱：大部分是由政府吸收，所以民眾影響比較小。"],["牛委員煦庭：對，你為了擔心這個……擔心的時候，政府的……我剛剛為什麼講要有幾百億的預算規模，就是不要衝擊民眾搭車的情況，因為要養量，在不衝擊的情況下，政府當然要下大資源，那我說下個500億在全國的公車系統，不虧啊！因為客運跟公車的量養起來，是幫未來的捷運在養量，也減少塞車跟停車的問題，這絕對划算，所以預算的大幅投入，我期待交通部可以作為。","第二個是有關勞動條件，我今天點一下，後面有時間我們再討論，客運的場站、公共汽車的停車場，從來沒有在我們的都市計畫或者是區域計畫裡面被深刻的討論，但它有沒有需要？它有需要，因為它是交通節點，也可以改善業者的投資環境，並改善司機的勞動環境，這件事情如果交通部能夠把它列為重點工作項目，在幾個地方先行試辦，把這個東西打開，也許業者才會感受到我們政府對這個政策的重視，也只有從這種大方向有魄力的著手，才有辦法改善業者倒閉、司機缺工的問題，改善公車的品質，希望部長可以儘快提出解決方案，可以嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：好，謝謝委員。"],["牛委員煦庭：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝牛委員。講真的這很重要，停車場真的是……他們是過一天算一天，所以不可能有像樣的硬體投資，我們的駕駛人員也不可能有像樣的休息空間，我覺得是滿有道理，我們來研究。","接下來請鍾佳濱委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":366,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-7","speakers":["魯明哲","李昆澤","林國成","林沛祥","林俊憲","許智傑","廖先翔","徐富癸","邱若華","陳雪生","陳素月","蔡其昌","林月琴","李坤城","鍾佳濱","牛煦庭","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","賴惠員","黃健豪","羅廷瑋","羅智強","王鴻薇","何欣純","楊瓊瓔","黃捷","游顥","陳冠廷"],"page_start":289,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1139001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、公平交易委員會主任委員李鎂、數位發展部次長、勞動部次長、衛\n生福利部、經濟部、個人資料保護委員會籌備處及行政院消費者保護處就「外送平台之整併、收\n費指引、個資保護、產業發展、勞工權益及食品物流安全規範」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、\n邀請交通部公路局局長就「公路大型客貨運駕駛短缺之因應措施暨現行遊覽車評鑑制度之檢討與\n精進」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139001_00005"}}}