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00:01:02,943\n對,我們從109年就開始有中高齡就業促進法所以其實這三年來已經補充了38萬的中高齡勞動力來進入就業市場那麼再來還會必須更加強因為我現在看就是說我們現在不以勞動部來說我們以國家整個政策來說我覺得國家對於中高齡的\n\n4\n00:01:03,524 --> 00:01:05,165\n2020年是好像386.7億然後明年我們是編到849億等於是這56年就漲了69.8%\n\n5\n00:01:30,695 --> 00:01:50,483\n所以這個東西我們從這個角度去看政府對於這個中高齡的人他的錢是花在怎麼樣長照但是對於所謂的那個壯世代的一些就業國家所提那個他所編列的預算或是他的著重卻不在那個地方所以\n\n6\n00:01:51,443 --> 00:02:12,557\n我覺得說這個年紀的人剛好是生活經驗最豐富的時候那因為現在像剛剛一直討論到那種健康的平均餘命等等的角度去看那事實上這些人其實剛好他的工作經驗最豐富而且依照現在人的體力其實這個年紀還體力非常的好\n\n7\n00:02:13,297 --> 00:02:13,317\n吳宗憲\n\n8\n00:02:33,550 --> 00:02:33,710\n議員吳宗憲議員吳宗憲\n\n9\n00:03:01,547 --> 00:03:26,442\n是當然這還是需要改進的那有的甚至到那2.7年然後什麼那個不同職業別他那個狀況不太一樣也就是說其實每一個中高齡他已經有一點年紀了但他想要回到職場他卻要花非常長的時間那反而是這些時間也是等於是讓他年紀又個人更長那是不是說\n\n10\n00:03:28,699 --> 00:03:38,131\n國家在思考怎麼樣給這些人提供長照之外勞動部這邊也能夠多花一點精神對於這個壯世代的就業啊能夠\n\n11\n00:03:45,850 --> 00:04:03,957\n我看到你們的報告還有寫說什麼什麼好幾種計劃嗎那這幾年受惠的好幾萬人但是數據上面來看他們還是必須等兩年以上的時間才有辦法找到工作所以這個東西並沒有辦法說我就已經做了一個很好的政策很多人受惠了\n\n12\n00:04:04,697 --> 00:04:26,927\n那這也就是為什麼這麼多委員他其實是支持這個壯世代政策跟產業發展促進法為什麼大家會支持這個是因為我們希望把壯世代的這個力量能夠用到社會上面可以解決很多缺工的問題那甚至說壯世代呢我們也要讓他們對生活還是有一些有所期待啦否則到2070年嘛我們依據那個數據來看一個生產者要養一個老人\n\n13\n00:04:33,190 --> 00:05:01,890\n一份收入要養兩個人那這個其實對於年輕人的負擔也很大那最後我還是希望說跟部長分享一個就是我們之前看那個高年級實習生這個好像美國電影他其實他就是講一個70歲的一個人他回歸職場那他用他過去的經驗然後讓一個新世代新創產業的一個時裝店他回復到更好他變得更\n\n14\n00:05:02,450 --> 00:05:27,621\n做得更好所以他那時候他有一句臺詞就是說音樂家不會退休只要心中沒有音樂才會停止我相信很多中高齡的人他們對於這個社會或對於工作或對於自我的要求其實是滿滿的活力是不是說我們請部長將來也能夠支持我們對於這個促進法的推動然後我們一起來來把它做好看部長最後部長有什麼想法\n\n15\n00:05:30,596 --> 00:05:42,362\n我支持壯世代這樣的反年齡歧視的這樣的概念的倡議,可是它要形成一個法律就比較保留啦,還需要討論好嗎?\n\n16\n00:05:45,464 --> 00:05:45,624\n謝謝委員﹚謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4669\t25818\t謝謝主席,我們麻煩勞動部長部長,我想說從數據上面來看,其實我們現在臺灣的中高齡的勞動率只有64%那其實是遠低於日本、南韓還有美國的數據\n27376\t40379\t所以說在我們面對現在臺灣有一些缺工的問題的時候其實鍾高麟他的參與也是一個很重要的這個解決缺工危機的一個問題我想請問一下對於這勞動力短缺目前勞動部有什麼計畫\n42185\t62943\t對,我們從109年就開始有中高齡就業促進法所以其實這三年來已經補充了38萬的中高齡勞動力來進入就業市場那麼再來還會必須更加強因為我現在看就是說我們現在不以勞動部來說我們以國家整個政策來說我覺得國家對於中高齡的\n63524\t65165\t2020年是好像386.7億然後明年我們是編到849億等於是這56年就漲了69.8%\n90695\t110483\t所以這個東西我們從這個角度去看政府對於這個中高齡的人他的錢是花在怎麼樣長照但是對於所謂的那個壯世代的一些就業國家所提那個他所編列的預算或是他的著重卻不在那個地方所以\n111443\t132557\t我覺得說這個年紀的人剛好是生活經驗最豐富的時候那因為現在像剛剛一直討論到那種健康的平均餘命等等的角度去看那事實上這些人其實剛好他的工作經驗最豐富而且依照現在人的體力其實這個年紀還體力非常的好\n133297\t133317\t吳宗憲\n153550\t153710\t議員吳宗憲議員吳宗憲\n181547\t206442\t是當然這還是需要改進的那有的甚至到那2.7年然後什麼那個不同職業別他那個狀況不太一樣也就是說其實每一個中高齡他已經有一點年紀了但他想要回到職場他卻要花非常長的時間那反而是這些時間也是等於是讓他年紀又個人更長那是不是說\n208699\t218131\t國家在思考怎麼樣給這些人提供長照之外勞動部這邊也能夠多花一點精神對於這個壯世代的就業啊能夠\n225850\t243957\t我看到你們的報告還有寫說什麼什麼好幾種計劃嗎那這幾年受惠的好幾萬人但是數據上面來看他們還是必須等兩年以上的時間才有辦法找到工作所以這個東西並沒有辦法說我就已經做了一個很好的政策很多人受惠了\n244697\t266927\t那這也就是為什麼這麼多委員他其實是支持這個壯世代政策跟產業發展促進法為什麼大家會支持這個是因為我們希望把壯世代的這個力量能夠用到社會上面可以解決很多缺工的問題那甚至說壯世代呢我們也要讓他們對生活還是有一些有所期待啦否則到2070年嘛我們依據那個數據來看一個生產者要養一個老人\n273190\t301890\t一份收入要養兩個人那這個其實對於年輕人的負擔也很大那最後我還是希望說跟部長分享一個就是我們之前看那個高年級實習生這個好像美國電影他其實他就是講一個70歲的一個人他回歸職場那他用他過去的經驗然後讓一個新世代新創產業的一個時裝店他回復到更好他變得更\n302450\t327621\t做得更好所以他那時候他有一句臺詞就是說音樂家不會退休只要心中沒有音樂才會停止我相信很多中高齡的人他們對於這個社會或對於工作或對於自我的要求其實是滿滿的活力是不是說我們請部長將來也能夠支持我們對於這個促進法的推動然後我們一起來來把它做好看部長最後部長有什麼想法\n330596\t342362\t我支持壯世代這樣的反年齡歧視的這樣的概念的倡議,可是它要形成一個法律就比較保留啦,還需要討論好嗎?\n345464\t345624\t謝謝委員﹚謝謝部長\n","txt":"謝謝主席,我們麻煩勞動部長部長,我想說從數據上面來看,其實我們現在臺灣的中高齡的勞動率只有64%那其實是遠低於日本、南韓還有美國的數據\n所以說在我們面對現在臺灣有一些缺工的問題的時候其實鍾高麟他的參與也是一個很重要的這個解決缺工危機的一個問題我想請問一下對於這勞動力短缺目前勞動部有什麼計畫\n對,我們從109年就開始有中高齡就業促進法所以其實這三年來已經補充了38萬的中高齡勞動力來進入就業市場那麼再來還會必須更加強因為我現在看就是說我們現在不以勞動部來說我們以國家整個政策來說我覺得國家對於中高齡的\n2020年是好像386.7億然後明年我們是編到849億等於是這56年就漲了69.8%\n所以這個東西我們從這個角度去看政府對於這個中高齡的人他的錢是花在怎麼樣長照但是對於所謂的那個壯世代的一些就業國家所提那個他所編列的預算或是他的著重卻不在那個地方所以\n我覺得說這個年紀的人剛好是生活經驗最豐富的時候那因為現在像剛剛一直討論到那種健康的平均餘命等等的角度去看那事實上這些人其實剛好他的工作經驗最豐富而且依照現在人的體力其實這個年紀還體力非常的好\n吳宗憲\n議員吳宗憲議員吳宗憲\n是當然這還是需要改進的那有的甚至到那2.7年然後什麼那個不同職業別他那個狀況不太一樣也就是說其實每一個中高齡他已經有一點年紀了但他想要回到職場他卻要花非常長的時間那反而是這些時間也是等於是讓他年紀又個人更長那是不是說\n國家在思考怎麼樣給這些人提供長照之外勞動部這邊也能夠多花一點精神對於這個壯世代的就業啊能夠\n我看到你們的報告還有寫說什麼什麼好幾種計劃嗎那這幾年受惠的好幾萬人但是數據上面來看他們還是必須等兩年以上的時間才有辦法找到工作所以這個東西並沒有辦法說我就已經做了一個很好的政策很多人受惠了\n那這也就是為什麼這麼多委員他其實是支持這個壯世代政策跟產業發展促進法為什麼大家會支持這個是因為我們希望把壯世代的這個力量能夠用到社會上面可以解決很多缺工的問題那甚至說壯世代呢我們也要讓他們對生活還是有一些有所期待啦否則到2070年嘛我們依據那個數據來看一個生產者要養一個老人\n一份收入要養兩個人那這個其實對於年輕人的負擔也很大那最後我還是希望說跟部長分享一個就是我們之前看那個高年級實習生這個好像美國電影他其實他就是講一個70歲的一個人他回歸職場那他用他過去的經驗然後讓一個新世代新創產業的一個時裝店他回復到更好他變得更\n做得更好所以他那時候他有一句臺詞就是說音樂家不會退休只要心中沒有音樂才會停止我相信很多中高齡的人他們對於這個社會或對於工作或對於自我的要求其實是滿滿的活力是不是說我們請部長將來也能夠支持我們對於這個促進法的推動然後我們一起來來把它做好看部長最後部長有什麼想法\n我支持壯世代這樣的反年齡歧視的這樣的概念的倡議,可是它要形成一個法律就比較保留啦,還需要討論好嗎?\n謝謝委員﹚謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.669 --> 00:25.818\n謝謝主席,我們麻煩勞動部長部長,我想說從數據上面來看,其實我們現在臺灣的中高齡的勞動率只有64%那其實是遠低於日本、南韓還有美國的數據\n\n00:27.376 --> 00:40.379\n所以說在我們面對現在臺灣有一些缺工的問題的時候其實鍾高麟他的參與也是一個很重要的這個解決缺工危機的一個問題我想請問一下對於這勞動力短缺目前勞動部有什麼計畫\n\n00:42.185 --> 01:02.943\n對,我們從109年就開始有中高齡就業促進法所以其實這三年來已經補充了38萬的中高齡勞動力來進入就業市場那麼再來還會必須更加強因為我現在看就是說我們現在不以勞動部來說我們以國家整個政策來說我覺得國家對於中高齡的\n\n01:03.524 --> 01:05.165\n2020年是好像386.7億然後明年我們是編到849億等於是這56年就漲了69.8%\n\n01:30.695 --> 01:50.483\n所以這個東西我們從這個角度去看政府對於這個中高齡的人他的錢是花在怎麼樣長照但是對於所謂的那個壯世代的一些就業國家所提那個他所編列的預算或是他的著重卻不在那個地方所以\n\n01:51.443 --> 02:12.557\n我覺得說這個年紀的人剛好是生活經驗最豐富的時候那因為現在像剛剛一直討論到那種健康的平均餘命等等的角度去看那事實上這些人其實剛好他的工作經驗最豐富而且依照現在人的體力其實這個年紀還體力非常的好\n\n02:13.297 --> 02:13.317\n吳宗憲\n\n02:33.550 --> 02:33.710\n議員吳宗憲議員吳宗憲\n\n03:01.547 --> 03:26.442\n是當然這還是需要改進的那有的甚至到那2.7年然後什麼那個不同職業別他那個狀況不太一樣也就是說其實每一個中高齡他已經有一點年紀了但他想要回到職場他卻要花非常長的時間那反而是這些時間也是等於是讓他年紀又個人更長那是不是說\n\n03:28.699 --> 03:38.131\n國家在思考怎麼樣給這些人提供長照之外勞動部這邊也能夠多花一點精神對於這個壯世代的就業啊能夠\n\n03:45.850 --> 04:03.957\n我看到你們的報告還有寫說什麼什麼好幾種計劃嗎那這幾年受惠的好幾萬人但是數據上面來看他們還是必須等兩年以上的時間才有辦法找到工作所以這個東西並沒有辦法說我就已經做了一個很好的政策很多人受惠了\n\n04:04.697 --> 04:26.927\n那這也就是為什麼這麼多委員他其實是支持這個壯世代政策跟產業發展促進法為什麼大家會支持這個是因為我們希望把壯世代的這個力量能夠用到社會上面可以解決很多缺工的問題那甚至說壯世代呢我們也要讓他們對生活還是有一些有所期待啦否則到2070年嘛我們依據那個數據來看一個生產者要養一個老人\n\n04:33.190 --> 05:01.890\n一份收入要養兩個人那這個其實對於年輕人的負擔也很大那最後我還是希望說跟部長分享一個就是我們之前看那個高年級實習生這個好像美國電影他其實他就是講一個70歲的一個人他回歸職場那他用他過去的經驗然後讓一個新世代新創產業的一個時裝店他回復到更好他變得更\n\n05:02.450 --> 05:27.621\n做得更好所以他那時候他有一句臺詞就是說音樂家不會退休只要心中沒有音樂才會停止我相信很多中高齡的人他們對於這個社會或對於工作或對於自我的要求其實是滿滿的活力是不是說我們請部長將來也能夠支持我們對於這個促進法的推動然後我們一起來來把它做好看部長最後部長有什麼想法\n\n05:30.596 --> 05:42.362\n我支持壯世代這樣的反年齡歧視的這樣的概念的倡議,可是它要形成一個法律就比較保留啦,還需要討論好嗎?\n\n05:45.464 --> 05:45.624\n謝謝委員﹚謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.669,"end":25.818,"text":"謝謝主席,我們麻煩勞動部長部長,我想說從數據上面來看,其實我們現在臺灣的中高齡的勞動率只有64%那其實是遠低於日本、南韓還有美國的數據"},{"start":27.376,"end":40.379,"text":"所以說在我們面對現在臺灣有一些缺工的問題的時候其實鍾高麟他的參與也是一個很重要的這個解決缺工危機的一個問題我想請問一下對於這勞動力短缺目前勞動部有什麼計畫"},{"start":42.185,"end":62.943,"text":"對,我們從109年就開始有中高齡就業促進法所以其實這三年來已經補充了38萬的中高齡勞動力來進入就業市場那麼再來還會必須更加強因為我現在看就是說我們現在不以勞動部來說我們以國家整個政策來說我覺得國家對於中高齡的"},{"start":63.524,"end":65.165,"text":"2020年是好像386.7億然後明年我們是編到849億等於是這56年就漲了69.8%"},{"start":90.695,"end":110.483,"text":"所以這個東西我們從這個角度去看政府對於這個中高齡的人他的錢是花在怎麼樣長照但是對於所謂的那個壯世代的一些就業國家所提那個他所編列的預算或是他的著重卻不在那個地方所以"},{"start":111.443,"end":132.557,"text":"我覺得說這個年紀的人剛好是生活經驗最豐富的時候那因為現在像剛剛一直討論到那種健康的平均餘命等等的角度去看那事實上這些人其實剛好他的工作經驗最豐富而且依照現在人的體力其實這個年紀還體力非常的好"},{"start":133.297,"end":133.317,"text":"吳宗憲"},{"start":153.55,"end":153.71,"text":"議員吳宗憲議員吳宗憲"},{"start":181.547,"end":206.442,"text":"是當然這還是需要改進的那有的甚至到那2.7年然後什麼那個不同職業別他那個狀況不太一樣也就是說其實每一個中高齡他已經有一點年紀了但他想要回到職場他卻要花非常長的時間那反而是這些時間也是等於是讓他年紀又個人更長那是不是說"},{"start":208.699,"end":218.131,"text":"國家在思考怎麼樣給這些人提供長照之外勞動部這邊也能夠多花一點精神對於這個壯世代的就業啊能夠"},{"start":225.85,"end":243.957,"text":"我看到你們的報告還有寫說什麼什麼好幾種計劃嗎那這幾年受惠的好幾萬人但是數據上面來看他們還是必須等兩年以上的時間才有辦法找到工作所以這個東西並沒有辦法說我就已經做了一個很好的政策很多人受惠了"},{"start":244.697,"end":266.927,"text":"那這也就是為什麼這麼多委員他其實是支持這個壯世代政策跟產業發展促進法為什麼大家會支持這個是因為我們希望把壯世代的這個力量能夠用到社會上面可以解決很多缺工的問題那甚至說壯世代呢我們也要讓他們對生活還是有一些有所期待啦否則到2070年嘛我們依據那個數據來看一個生產者要養一個老人"},{"start":273.19,"end":301.89,"text":"一份收入要養兩個人那這個其實對於年輕人的負擔也很大那最後我還是希望說跟部長分享一個就是我們之前看那個高年級實習生這個好像美國電影他其實他就是講一個70歲的一個人他回歸職場那他用他過去的經驗然後讓一個新世代新創產業的一個時裝店他回復到更好他變得更"},{"start":302.45,"end":327.621,"text":"做得更好所以他那時候他有一句臺詞就是說音樂家不會退休只要心中沒有音樂才會停止我相信很多中高齡的人他們對於這個社會或對於工作或對於自我的要求其實是滿滿的活力是不是說我們請部長將來也能夠支持我們對於這個促進法的推動然後我們一起來來把它做好看部長最後部長有什麼想法"},{"start":330.596,"end":342.362,"text":"我支持壯世代這樣的反年齡歧視的這樣的概念的倡議,可是它要形成一個法律就比較保留啦,還需要討論好嗎?"},{"start":345.464,"end":345.624,"text":"謝謝委員﹚謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1057,"blocks":[["吳委員宗憲：（12時55分）謝謝主席，我們麻煩勞動部長。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["吳委員宗憲：部長，從數據上面來看，其實現在臺灣的中高齡勞動力只有64%，遠低於日本、南韓還有美國的數據，所以說，在我們面對現在臺灣一些缺工問題的時候，其實中高齡者的參與也是一個很重要的解決缺工危機的解方。我想請問一下，對於勞動力短缺，目前勞動部有什麼計畫？"],["何部長佩珊：我們從109年就開始有中高齡就業促進法，所以其實這三年來已經補充了38萬的中高齡勞動力進入就業市場，再來還必須更加強。"],["吳委員宗憲：如果不以勞動部來說，而是以國家整體政策來說，我覺得國家對於中高齡的政策面其實主要著力點還是在照護面，就像剛剛劉委員講的一樣，他也是講說國家主要還是在照顧面的計畫。所以像長照的支出，2020年好像是386.7億，明年編到849億，等於這五、六年就成長了69.8%，我們從這個角度去看，政府對於中高齡的人，錢是花在怎麼樣做長照，但是對於所謂壯世代的一些就業，國家所編列的預算或是它的著重點卻不在那個地方。我覺得這個年紀剛好是生活經驗最豐富的時候，像剛剛一直是從健康方面的平均餘命等角度去看，事實上這些人剛好工作經驗最豐富，而且依照現代人的體力，其實這個年紀的體力還非常好，不能拿50年前同齡者的體力來做比較，所以如果我們只把他以中高齡者看待，或者是把他當成被照護的對象，我覺得是不妥的，這個面向其實是不對的啦！所以國家政策本來就應考量要提供這些人什麼樣的幫助、協助，甚至能夠讓他重回職場。","部長剛剛說你們有很多個計畫，可能也花了不少錢，但是現在有個問題，就是中高齡求職者平均還是要花超過2年的時間才有辦法找到工作，這跟部長剛剛說的你們做了很多還是有滿大的落差，2年耶！對不對？"],["何部長佩珊：當然，這還是需要改進的。"],["吳委員宗憲：有的甚至要到2.7年才找到工作，不同職業別的狀況不太一樣，也就是說，中高齡者其實已經有一點年紀了，當他想要回到職場，卻要花非常長的時間，而這些時間反而讓他更為年長，因此，除了國家在思考怎麼樣給這些人提供長照之外，勞動部這邊是不是也能多花一點精神，對於壯世代的就業再多努力一點？"],["何部長佩珊：當然。"],["吳委員宗憲：不要讓中高齡者到現在還是很多人都不容易找到工作。我看到你們的報告還寫說你們有好幾種計畫，這幾年受惠的有好幾萬人，但是從數據上面來看，他們還是必須等2年以上的時間才有辦法找到工作，所以不能說你們已經做了一個很好的政策，讓很多人受惠，而這也就是會有這麼多委員支持必須制定壯世代政策與產業發展促進法的原因。為什麼大家會支持這個？是因為我們希望能把壯世代的力量用到社會上面，解決很多缺工的問題，甚至我們也要讓壯世代對生活還是有所期待，否則到2070年，以數據來看，我們一個生產者要養一個老人，也就是說，一份收入要養兩個人，這個其實對年輕人的負擔也很大。","最後我還是希望跟部長分享一下，我們之前看「高年級實習生」這部美國電影，其實就是講一個70歲的人回歸職場，用他過去的經驗，讓一個新世代新創產業的時裝店做得更好，那時候他有一句臺詞是說：音樂家不會退休，只有心中沒有音樂才會停止。我相信很多中高齡的人，他們對於社會或對於工作或對於自我的要求，其實是滿滿的活力，所以是不是請部長將來也能夠支持這個促進法的推動，我們一起來把它做好？請教部長有什麼想法？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，在前面報告時我有提過，我支持壯世代這樣反年齡歧視概念的倡議，可是要形成一個法律就比較保留，還需要討論，好嗎？建議貴院可以再討論。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，沒關係，我不是質疑你到底同不同意，我只是希望能了解你的想法，當然，法案的部分，立法院這邊還是會想辦法推動，因為明年、剩兩個月我們就是超高齡社會，超高齡社會之後，我們總還是要有一些因應之道，不然我們都會老，小孩也會長大，總是要處理這個問題，好不好？"],["何部長佩珊：好。"],["吳委員宗憲：謝謝部長。"],["何部長佩珊：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝吳委員，謝謝部長。","繼續我們請洪孟楷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":160,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-26,19-1","speakers":["蘇清泉","黃秀芳","邱議瑩","林月琴","王正旭","林淑芬","吳春城","陳昭姿","陳亭妃","鄭正鈐","廖偉翔","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","賴瑞隆","翁曉玲","劉建國","吳宗憲","洪孟楷","黃珊珊","林倩綺","林國成","涂權吉","蔡易餘","羅廷瑋","麥玉珍","楊曜","盧縣一","張嘉郡","陳超明","林憶君","邱志偉","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":63,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1139001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查委員吳春城等42人擬具「壯世代政策與產業發展促進法草案」案","agenda_id":"1139001_00002"}}}