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\"start\": 462.142, \"end\": 462.163, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,489 --> 00:00:26,949\n有請交通部陳部長、勞動部陳次長還有公平交易委員會李竺偉李竺偉是我想在這裡先跟主席那個請教一下就是我們外委員會大概有幾分鐘執行的時間今天有宣告4加14加1那如果議題沒有講完我還可以再延續原則上不行我這邊會決議好謝謝你好謝謝主席謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:31,151 --> 00:00:35,177\n在這裡我首先先請教我們公平交易委員會\n\n3\n00:00:37,236 --> 00:00:59,847\n李主委那我想就是說最近就是兩個外送平台合併的一個這個議題其實在我們整體的社會裡頭就是灰灰騰騰那關係到就是民眾跟外送員跟餐廳雙方的一個受害到底是UberEats還是就是併購那個Hubenda\n\n4\n00:01:01,308 --> 00:01:17,067\n這個對民眾跟外送員跟餐廳三方面的一個受害我想主委你也關心到了這一個議題那如果我們從6月份就是外送產業工會的代表他們提出來就是說從這個最早期\n\n5\n00:01:17,588 --> 00:01:45,345\n台灣每一張這個單子就是我們的外送員可以分紅到110塊到130塊到現在僅剩下30到40塊錢那是過去的四分之一可是在調整前面卻沒有跟外送員做好那個良好的溝通我不知道就是主委對於這個外送員這個權益受損的這一個問題是不是你有達到這個監督的一個那個責任\n\n6\n00:01:46,626 --> 00:02:06,147\n謝委員在我們審查這兩個外送平台結合當中勞動條件的改變情形也會列入考量也會列入考量那當然是要列入考量那所以就是說合併審查案裡頭的評估那在這裡我要特別跟主委請教一下就是說\n\n7\n00:02:07,188 --> 00:02:23,443\n其實Huber的集團向來並沒有非常遵守法規我們知道到現在為止他們還沒有幫外送員就是去保這個勞保我不知道你知不知道這個議題我有知道這個消息你知道了多少\n\n8\n00:02:24,866 --> 00:02:42,651\n這個部分有一些訴訟那跟委員回報就是說外送平台他依法該有什麼作為不該有什麼作為我想這如果涉及到影響競爭秩序公平交易法可以處理的問題可是外送員被剝削的問題其實是已經存在了\n\n9\n00:02:43,191 --> 00:02:59,010\n那這個存在了以後就是說我們相關的部門大家就是把它列為就是一個商業的競爭這個會讓我們這些外送員會覺得就是說政府的沒有作為然後對政府失望會不會有這樣的一個感覺\n\n10\n00:02:59,571 --> 00:03:20,208\n我想所有的事業在經營業務都要符合競爭秩序所以在經營過程當中如果有影響到競爭秩序維護交易秩序那這個有沒有影響到不幫外送員那個頭保那個勞健保有沒有影響到他的競爭秩序最主要是一個競爭秩序的一個考量好\n\n11\n00:03:21,611 --> 00:03:30,502\n顯然主委你沒有很正面的回答這個問題啦齁那在還沒有合併以前就這樣外送會這個惡意的漲價你有沒有去阻止他呢\n\n12\n00:03:32,371 --> 00:03:58,431\n各事業去調整它的服務價格喔如果是個別基於它的營運考量去調整價格這個是市場的一個這是市場的一個基準如果是聯合聯合壟斷要去調價那這個在公平法一定有重罰那基本上這兩個兩個平台就是聯合就是它把外送會、服務會都整個一起漲價啦難道你不知道嗎我們知道它有調整價格的情形但是\n\n13\n00:04:00,213 --> 00:04:19,128\n如果有這個聯合兩個平台合資共同合要一起漲價這個公平交易法會有處罰的機制如果是個別定價主委我覺得你要去正視這些問題他們就是聯合的漲價這個你查了馬上就非常的清楚會看到這個問題主委你請回交通部長\n\n14\n00:04:25,424 --> 00:04:48,119\n部長就是最近我們有公告那個就是外送平台匯率的一個公式其中也有提到就是說在這個平台裡頭我們要等待匯用還有就是樓層匯跟印匯我們都要加收那這個加收的過程包括沒有一定要加收那是得未來的計價可以加入但不一定要加入\n\n15\n00:04:48,359 --> 00:05:03,388\n好不一定要加入那你有沒有就是說在這裡頭我們看得到就是說交通部他你還在那個研討就是有配套的一個措施是不是要收那你多收的這一些費用要給誰\n\n16\n00:05:04,289 --> 00:05:23,898\n要分配給誰報告委員交通部在處理的面向只有針對運價的透明化運價透明化也就是說它裡面該有什麼樣的項目那應該怎麼樣的定價運價透明化的公式是這一次交通部要推展的一個部分那針對未來的定價的部分到底怎麼定價是由消費者\n\n17\n00:05:24,838 --> 00:05:43,710\n跟那個外送員的工會跟業者平台業者還有地方政府還有這個公路局大家會來共同來擬定跟商討那未來也只會定上線不會有下線那未來的這個收費完之後至少先做到透明啦透明完之後才能討論下一步他們怎麼分配的問題好\n\n18\n00:05:44,651 --> 00:05:59,780\n部長透明了以後我們就是說業者跟工會一起來討論還有消基會共同來討論就是說起碼我們把這個價錢是透明的這個是交通部目前我們在擬定這個修法主要是要讓它透明化\n\n19\n00:06:00,180 --> 00:06:23,019\n因為現在很多的外送員的員工在反映說他根本也不知道實際上收了多少運費那我作為一個消費者其實我也不太清楚他是真的免運費還是假的免運費那未來我們希望說整個運費定價上面可以清楚的讓消費者知道也可以讓這個外送員都清楚好謝謝齁主委那個我請回不是請你坐回位子\n\n20\n00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:44,425\n那個我想我在這裡顯然就是說你對這一個兩大平台的一個併購變成市長一家獨大對產業真的有利這一個議題前面我在跟你探討的時候你沒有很正向的在回答我啦外送平台它抽成高合併了以後會不會漲絕對漲它的收費絕對漲那合併了以後就是說\n\n21\n00:06:51,106 --> 00:07:08,119\n這個對消費者來講的話事實上就是其實是對我們來講是非常的不利的那如果公平會的態度是這樣的一個態度的話顯然沒有辦法做到公平正義所以這個也是我比較擔心的啦所以我就希望就是說\n\n22\n00:07:10,263 --> 00:07:38,806\n換任這個外送平台合併然後我們還要看到臺灣的這個餐飲業被這個外資掐住了脖子這個是我們比較擔心的所以我們也希望就是說主委你從2024年初的一個調查到現在其實幾乎我們在公平會裡頭沒有去主導一個真正的這個公平正義這個我想是不是把這個那個調查在一個月內給本席好不好\n\n23\n00:07:39,266 --> 00:07:42,163\n好我們會後再跟再提供給好謝謝那謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n489\t26949\t有請交通部陳部長、勞動部陳次長還有公平交易委員會李竺偉李竺偉是我想在這裡先跟主席那個請教一下就是我們外委員會大概有幾分鐘執行的時間今天有宣告4加14加1那如果議題沒有講完我還可以再延續原則上不行我這邊會決議好謝謝你好謝謝主席謝謝\n31151\t35177\t在這裡我首先先請教我們公平交易委員會\n37236\t59847\t李主委那我想就是說最近就是兩個外送平台合併的一個這個議題其實在我們整體的社會裡頭就是灰灰騰騰那關係到就是民眾跟外送員跟餐廳雙方的一個受害到底是Uber Eats還是就是併購那個Hubenda\n61308\t77067\t這個對民眾跟外送員跟餐廳三方面的一個受害我想主委你也關心到了這一個議題那如果我們從6月份就是外送產業工會的代表他們提出來就是說從這個最早期\n77588\t105345\t台灣每一張這個單子就是我們的外送員可以分紅到110塊到130塊到現在僅剩下30到40塊錢那是過去的四分之一可是在調整前面卻沒有跟外送員做好那個良好的溝通我不知道就是主委對於這個外送員這個權益受損的這一個問題是不是你有達到這個監督的一個那個責任\n106626\t126147\t謝委員在我們審查這兩個外送平台結合當中勞動條件的改變情形也會列入考量也會列入考量那當然是要列入考量那所以就是說合併審查案裡頭的評估那在這裡我要特別跟主委請教一下就是說\n127188\t143443\t其實Huber的集團向來並沒有非常遵守法規我們知道到現在為止他們還沒有幫外送員就是去保這個勞保我不知道你知不知道這個議題我有知道這個消息你知道了多少\n144866\t162651\t這個部分有一些訴訟那跟委員回報就是說外送平台他依法該有什麼作為不該有什麼作為我想這如果涉及到影響競爭秩序公平交易法可以處理的問題可是外送員被剝削的問題其實是已經存在了\n163191\t179010\t那這個存在了以後就是說我們相關的部門大家就是把它列為就是一個商業的競爭這個會讓我們這些外送員會覺得就是說政府的沒有作為然後對政府失望會不會有這樣的一個感覺\n179571\t200208\t我想所有的事業在經營業務都要符合競爭秩序所以在經營過程當中如果有影響到競爭秩序維護交易秩序那這個有沒有影響到不幫外送員那個頭保那個勞健保有沒有影響到他的競爭秩序最主要是一個競爭秩序的一個考量好\n201611\t210502\t顯然主委你沒有很正面的回答這個問題啦齁那在還沒有合併以前就這樣外送會這個惡意的漲價你有沒有去阻止他呢\n212371\t238431\t各事業去調整它的服務價格喔如果是個別基於它的營運考量去調整價格這個是市場的一個這是市場的一個基準如果是聯合聯合壟斷要去調價那這個在公平法一定有重罰那基本上這兩個兩個平台就是聯合就是它把外送會、服務會都整個一起漲價啦難道你不知道嗎我們知道它有調整價格的情形但是\n240213\t259128\t如果有這個聯合兩個平台合資共同合要一起漲價這個公平交易法會有處罰的機制如果是個別定價主委我覺得你要去正視這些問題他們就是聯合的漲價這個你查了馬上就非常的清楚會看到這個問題主委你請回交通部長\n265424\t288119\t部長就是最近我們有公告那個就是外送平台匯率的一個公式其中也有提到就是說在這個平台裡頭我們要等待匯用還有就是樓層匯跟印匯我們都要加收那這個加收的過程包括沒有一定要加收那是得未來的計價可以加入但不一定要加入\n288359\t303388\t好 不一定要加入那你有沒有就是說在這裡頭我們看得到就是說交通部他你還在那個研討就是有配套的一個措施是不是要收那你多收的這一些費用要給誰\n304289\t323898\t要分配給誰報告委員交通部在處理的面向只有針對運價的透明化運價透明化也就是說它裡面該有什麼樣的項目那應該怎麼樣的定價運價透明化的公式是這一次交通部要推展的一個部分那針對未來的定價的部分到底怎麼定價是由消費者\n324838\t343710\t跟那個外送員的工會跟業者平台業者還有地方政府還有這個公路局大家會來共同來擬定跟商討那未來也只會定上線不會有下線那未來的這個收費完之後至少先做到透明啦透明完之後才能討論下一步他們怎麼分配的問題好\n344651\t359780\t部長透明了以後我們就是說業者跟工會一起來討論還有消基會共同來討論就是說起碼我們把這個價錢是透明的這個是交通部目前我們在擬定這個修法主要是要讓它透明化\n360180\t383019\t因為現在很多的外送員的員工在反映說他根本也不知道實際上收了多少運費那我作為一個消費者其實我也不太清楚他是真的免運費還是假的免運費那未來我們希望說整個運費定價上面可以清楚的讓消費者知道也可以讓這個外送員都清楚好 謝謝齁主委那個我請回不是請你坐回位子\n384680\t404425\t那個我想我在這裡顯然就是說你對這一個兩大平台的一個併購變成市長一家獨大對產業真的有利這一個議題前面我在跟你探討的時候你沒有很正向的在回答我啦外送平台它抽成高合併了以後會不會漲絕對漲它的收費絕對漲那合併了以後就是說\n411106\t428119\t這個對消費者來講的話事實上就是其實是對我們來講是非常的不利的那如果公平會的態度是這樣的一個態度的話顯然沒有辦法做到公平正義所以這個也是我比較擔心的啦所以我就希望就是說\n430263\t458806\t換任這個外送平台合併然後我們還要看到臺灣的這個餐飲業被這個外資掐住了脖子這個是我們比較擔心的所以我們也希望就是說主委你從2024年初的一個調查到現在其實幾乎我們在公平會裡頭沒有去主導一個真正的這個公平正義這個我想是不是把這個那個調查在一個月內給本席好不好\n459266\t462163\t好我們會後再跟再提供給好謝謝那謝謝主席\n","txt":"有請交通部陳部長、勞動部陳次長還有公平交易委員會李竺偉李竺偉是我想在這裡先跟主席那個請教一下就是我們外委員會大概有幾分鐘執行的時間今天有宣告4加14加1那如果議題沒有講完我還可以再延續原則上不行我這邊會決議好謝謝你好謝謝主席謝謝\n在這裡我首先先請教我們公平交易委員會\n李主委那我想就是說最近就是兩個外送平台合併的一個這個議題其實在我們整體的社會裡頭就是灰灰騰騰那關係到就是民眾跟外送員跟餐廳雙方的一個受害到底是Uber Eats還是就是併購那個Hubenda\n這個對民眾跟外送員跟餐廳三方面的一個受害我想主委你也關心到了這一個議題那如果我們從6月份就是外送產業工會的代表他們提出來就是說從這個最早期\n台灣每一張這個單子就是我們的外送員可以分紅到110塊到130塊到現在僅剩下30到40塊錢那是過去的四分之一可是在調整前面卻沒有跟外送員做好那個良好的溝通我不知道就是主委對於這個外送員這個權益受損的這一個問題是不是你有達到這個監督的一個那個責任\n謝委員在我們審查這兩個外送平台結合當中勞動條件的改變情形也會列入考量也會列入考量那當然是要列入考量那所以就是說合併審查案裡頭的評估那在這裡我要特別跟主委請教一下就是說\n其實Huber的集團向來並沒有非常遵守法規我們知道到現在為止他們還沒有幫外送員就是去保這個勞保我不知道你知不知道這個議題我有知道這個消息你知道了多少\n這個部分有一些訴訟那跟委員回報就是說外送平台他依法該有什麼作為不該有什麼作為我想這如果涉及到影響競爭秩序公平交易法可以處理的問題可是外送員被剝削的問題其實是已經存在了\n那這個存在了以後就是說我們相關的部門大家就是把它列為就是一個商業的競爭這個會讓我們這些外送員會覺得就是說政府的沒有作為然後對政府失望會不會有這樣的一個感覺\n我想所有的事業在經營業務都要符合競爭秩序所以在經營過程當中如果有影響到競爭秩序維護交易秩序那這個有沒有影響到不幫外送員那個頭保那個勞健保有沒有影響到他的競爭秩序最主要是一個競爭秩序的一個考量好\n顯然主委你沒有很正面的回答這個問題啦齁那在還沒有合併以前就這樣外送會這個惡意的漲價你有沒有去阻止他呢\n各事業去調整它的服務價格喔如果是個別基於它的營運考量去調整價格這個是市場的一個這是市場的一個基準如果是聯合聯合壟斷要去調價那這個在公平法一定有重罰那基本上這兩個兩個平台就是聯合就是它把外送會、服務會都整個一起漲價啦難道你不知道嗎我們知道它有調整價格的情形但是\n如果有這個聯合兩個平台合資共同合要一起漲價這個公平交易法會有處罰的機制如果是個別定價主委我覺得你要去正視這些問題他們就是聯合的漲價這個你查了馬上就非常的清楚會看到這個問題主委你請回交通部長\n部長就是最近我們有公告那個就是外送平台匯率的一個公式其中也有提到就是說在這個平台裡頭我們要等待匯用還有就是樓層匯跟印匯我們都要加收那這個加收的過程包括沒有一定要加收那是得未來的計價可以加入但不一定要加入\n好 不一定要加入那你有沒有就是說在這裡頭我們看得到就是說交通部他你還在那個研討就是有配套的一個措施是不是要收那你多收的這一些費用要給誰\n要分配給誰報告委員交通部在處理的面向只有針對運價的透明化運價透明化也就是說它裡面該有什麼樣的項目那應該怎麼樣的定價運價透明化的公式是這一次交通部要推展的一個部分那針對未來的定價的部分到底怎麼定價是由消費者\n跟那個外送員的工會跟業者平台業者還有地方政府還有這個公路局大家會來共同來擬定跟商討那未來也只會定上線不會有下線那未來的這個收費完之後至少先做到透明啦透明完之後才能討論下一步他們怎麼分配的問題好\n部長透明了以後我們就是說業者跟工會一起來討論還有消基會共同來討論就是說起碼我們把這個價錢是透明的這個是交通部目前我們在擬定這個修法主要是要讓它透明化\n因為現在很多的外送員的員工在反映說他根本也不知道實際上收了多少運費那我作為一個消費者其實我也不太清楚他是真的免運費還是假的免運費那未來我們希望說整個運費定價上面可以清楚的讓消費者知道也可以讓這個外送員都清楚好 謝謝齁主委那個我請回不是請你坐回位子\n那個我想我在這裡顯然就是說你對這一個兩大平台的一個併購變成市長一家獨大對產業真的有利這一個議題前面我在跟你探討的時候你沒有很正向的在回答我啦外送平台它抽成高合併了以後會不會漲絕對漲它的收費絕對漲那合併了以後就是說\n這個對消費者來講的話事實上就是其實是對我們來講是非常的不利的那如果公平會的態度是這樣的一個態度的話顯然沒有辦法做到公平正義所以這個也是我比較擔心的啦所以我就希望就是說\n換任這個外送平台合併然後我們還要看到臺灣的這個餐飲業被這個外資掐住了脖子這個是我們比較擔心的所以我們也希望就是說主委你從2024年初的一個調查到現在其實幾乎我們在公平會裡頭沒有去主導一個真正的這個公平正義這個我想是不是把這個那個調查在一個月內給本席好不好\n好我們會後再跟再提供給好謝謝那謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.489 --> 00:26.949\n有請交通部陳部長、勞動部陳次長還有公平交易委員會李竺偉李竺偉是我想在這裡先跟主席那個請教一下就是我們外委員會大概有幾分鐘執行的時間今天有宣告4加14加1那如果議題沒有講完我還可以再延續原則上不行我這邊會決議好謝謝你好謝謝主席謝謝\n\n00:31.151 --> 00:35.177\n在這裡我首先先請教我們公平交易委員會\n\n00:37.236 --> 00:59.847\n李主委那我想就是說最近就是兩個外送平台合併的一個這個議題其實在我們整體的社會裡頭就是灰灰騰騰那關係到就是民眾跟外送員跟餐廳雙方的一個受害到底是UberEats還是就是併購那個Hubenda\n\n01:01.308 --> 01:17.067\n這個對民眾跟外送員跟餐廳三方面的一個受害我想主委你也關心到了這一個議題那如果我們從6月份就是外送產業工會的代表他們提出來就是說從這個最早期\n\n01:17.588 --> 01:45.345\n台灣每一張這個單子就是我們的外送員可以分紅到110塊到130塊到現在僅剩下30到40塊錢那是過去的四分之一可是在調整前面卻沒有跟外送員做好那個良好的溝通我不知道就是主委對於這個外送員這個權益受損的這一個問題是不是你有達到這個監督的一個那個責任\n\n01:46.626 --> 02:06.147\n謝委員在我們審查這兩個外送平台結合當中勞動條件的改變情形也會列入考量也會列入考量那當然是要列入考量那所以就是說合併審查案裡頭的評估那在這裡我要特別跟主委請教一下就是說\n\n02:07.188 --> 02:23.443\n其實Huber的集團向來並沒有非常遵守法規我們知道到現在為止他們還沒有幫外送員就是去保這個勞保我不知道你知不知道這個議題我有知道這個消息你知道了多少\n\n02:24.866 --> 02:42.651\n這個部分有一些訴訟那跟委員回報就是說外送平台他依法該有什麼作為不該有什麼作為我想這如果涉及到影響競爭秩序公平交易法可以處理的問題可是外送員被剝削的問題其實是已經存在了\n\n02:43.191 --> 02:59.010\n那這個存在了以後就是說我們相關的部門大家就是把它列為就是一個商業的競爭這個會讓我們這些外送員會覺得就是說政府的沒有作為然後對政府失望會不會有這樣的一個感覺\n\n02:59.571 --> 03:20.208\n我想所有的事業在經營業務都要符合競爭秩序所以在經營過程當中如果有影響到競爭秩序維護交易秩序那這個有沒有影響到不幫外送員那個頭保那個勞健保有沒有影響到他的競爭秩序最主要是一個競爭秩序的一個考量好\n\n03:21.611 --> 03:30.502\n顯然主委你沒有很正面的回答這個問題啦齁那在還沒有合併以前就這樣外送會這個惡意的漲價你有沒有去阻止他呢\n\n03:32.371 --> 03:58.431\n各事業去調整它的服務價格喔如果是個別基於它的營運考量去調整價格這個是市場的一個這是市場的一個基準如果是聯合聯合壟斷要去調價那這個在公平法一定有重罰那基本上這兩個兩個平台就是聯合就是它把外送會、服務會都整個一起漲價啦難道你不知道嗎我們知道它有調整價格的情形但是\n\n04:00.213 --> 04:19.128\n如果有這個聯合兩個平台合資共同合要一起漲價這個公平交易法會有處罰的機制如果是個別定價主委我覺得你要去正視這些問題他們就是聯合的漲價這個你查了馬上就非常的清楚會看到這個問題主委你請回交通部長\n\n04:25.424 --> 04:48.119\n部長就是最近我們有公告那個就是外送平台匯率的一個公式其中也有提到就是說在這個平台裡頭我們要等待匯用還有就是樓層匯跟印匯我們都要加收那這個加收的過程包括沒有一定要加收那是得未來的計價可以加入但不一定要加入\n\n04:48.359 --> 05:03.388\n好不一定要加入那你有沒有就是說在這裡頭我們看得到就是說交通部他你還在那個研討就是有配套的一個措施是不是要收那你多收的這一些費用要給誰\n\n05:04.289 --> 05:23.898\n要分配給誰報告委員交通部在處理的面向只有針對運價的透明化運價透明化也就是說它裡面該有什麼樣的項目那應該怎麼樣的定價運價透明化的公式是這一次交通部要推展的一個部分那針對未來的定價的部分到底怎麼定價是由消費者\n\n05:24.838 --> 05:43.710\n跟那個外送員的工會跟業者平台業者還有地方政府還有這個公路局大家會來共同來擬定跟商討那未來也只會定上線不會有下線那未來的這個收費完之後至少先做到透明啦透明完之後才能討論下一步他們怎麼分配的問題好\n\n05:44.651 --> 05:59.780\n部長透明了以後我們就是說業者跟工會一起來討論還有消基會共同來討論就是說起碼我們把這個價錢是透明的這個是交通部目前我們在擬定這個修法主要是要讓它透明化\n\n06:00.180 --> 06:23.019\n因為現在很多的外送員的員工在反映說他根本也不知道實際上收了多少運費那我作為一個消費者其實我也不太清楚他是真的免運費還是假的免運費那未來我們希望說整個運費定價上面可以清楚的讓消費者知道也可以讓這個外送員都清楚好謝謝齁主委那個我請回不是請你坐回位子\n\n06:24.680 --> 06:44.425\n那個我想我在這裡顯然就是說你對這一個兩大平台的一個併購變成市長一家獨大對產業真的有利這一個議題前面我在跟你探討的時候你沒有很正向的在回答我啦外送平台它抽成高合併了以後會不會漲絕對漲它的收費絕對漲那合併了以後就是說\n\n06:51.106 --> 07:08.119\n這個對消費者來講的話事實上就是其實是對我們來講是非常的不利的那如果公平會的態度是這樣的一個態度的話顯然沒有辦法做到公平正義所以這個也是我比較擔心的啦所以我就希望就是說\n\n07:10.263 --> 07:38.806\n換任這個外送平台合併然後我們還要看到臺灣的這個餐飲業被這個外資掐住了脖子這個是我們比較擔心的所以我們也希望就是說主委你從2024年初的一個調查到現在其實幾乎我們在公平會裡頭沒有去主導一個真正的這個公平正義這個我想是不是把這個那個調查在一個月內給本席好不好\n\n07:39.266 --> 07:42.163\n好我們會後再跟再提供給好謝謝那謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.489,"end":26.949,"text":"有請交通部陳部長、勞動部陳次長還有公平交易委員會李竺偉李竺偉是我想在這裡先跟主席那個請教一下就是我們外委員會大概有幾分鐘執行的時間今天有宣告4加14加1那如果議題沒有講完我還可以再延續原則上不行我這邊會決議好謝謝你好謝謝主席謝謝"},{"start":31.151,"end":35.177,"text":"在這裡我首先先請教我們公平交易委員會"},{"start":37.236,"end":59.847,"text":"李主委那我想就是說最近就是兩個外送平台合併的一個這個議題其實在我們整體的社會裡頭就是灰灰騰騰那關係到就是民眾跟外送員跟餐廳雙方的一個受害到底是Uber Eats還是就是併購那個Hubenda"},{"start":61.308,"end":77.067,"text":"這個對民眾跟外送員跟餐廳三方面的一個受害我想主委你也關心到了這一個議題那如果我們從6月份就是外送產業工會的代表他們提出來就是說從這個最早期"},{"start":77.588,"end":105.345,"text":"台灣每一張這個單子就是我們的外送員可以分紅到110塊到130塊到現在僅剩下30到40塊錢那是過去的四分之一可是在調整前面卻沒有跟外送員做好那個良好的溝通我不知道就是主委對於這個外送員這個權益受損的這一個問題是不是你有達到這個監督的一個那個責任"},{"start":106.626,"end":126.147,"text":"謝委員在我們審查這兩個外送平台結合當中勞動條件的改變情形也會列入考量也會列入考量那當然是要列入考量那所以就是說合併審查案裡頭的評估那在這裡我要特別跟主委請教一下就是說"},{"start":127.188,"end":143.443,"text":"其實Huber的集團向來並沒有非常遵守法規我們知道到現在為止他們還沒有幫外送員就是去保這個勞保我不知道你知不知道這個議題我有知道這個消息你知道了多少"},{"start":144.866,"end":162.651,"text":"這個部分有一些訴訟那跟委員回報就是說外送平台他依法該有什麼作為不該有什麼作為我想這如果涉及到影響競爭秩序公平交易法可以處理的問題可是外送員被剝削的問題其實是已經存在了"},{"start":163.191,"end":179.01,"text":"那這個存在了以後就是說我們相關的部門大家就是把它列為就是一個商業的競爭這個會讓我們這些外送員會覺得就是說政府的沒有作為然後對政府失望會不會有這樣的一個感覺"},{"start":179.571,"end":200.208,"text":"我想所有的事業在經營業務都要符合競爭秩序所以在經營過程當中如果有影響到競爭秩序維護交易秩序那這個有沒有影響到不幫外送員那個頭保那個勞健保有沒有影響到他的競爭秩序最主要是一個競爭秩序的一個考量好"},{"start":201.611,"end":210.502,"text":"顯然主委你沒有很正面的回答這個問題啦齁那在還沒有合併以前就這樣外送會這個惡意的漲價你有沒有去阻止他呢"},{"start":212.371,"end":238.431,"text":"各事業去調整它的服務價格喔如果是個別基於它的營運考量去調整價格這個是市場的一個這是市場的一個基準如果是聯合聯合壟斷要去調價那這個在公平法一定有重罰那基本上這兩個兩個平台就是聯合就是它把外送會、服務會都整個一起漲價啦難道你不知道嗎我們知道它有調整價格的情形但是"},{"start":240.213,"end":259.128,"text":"如果有這個聯合兩個平台合資共同合要一起漲價這個公平交易法會有處罰的機制如果是個別定價主委我覺得你要去正視這些問題他們就是聯合的漲價這個你查了馬上就非常的清楚會看到這個問題主委你請回交通部長"},{"start":265.424,"end":288.119,"text":"部長就是最近我們有公告那個就是外送平台匯率的一個公式其中也有提到就是說在這個平台裡頭我們要等待匯用還有就是樓層匯跟印匯我們都要加收那這個加收的過程包括沒有一定要加收那是得未來的計價可以加入但不一定要加入"},{"start":288.359,"end":303.388,"text":"好 不一定要加入那你有沒有就是說在這裡頭我們看得到就是說交通部他你還在那個研討就是有配套的一個措施是不是要收那你多收的這一些費用要給誰"},{"start":304.289,"end":323.898,"text":"要分配給誰報告委員交通部在處理的面向只有針對運價的透明化運價透明化也就是說它裡面該有什麼樣的項目那應該怎麼樣的定價運價透明化的公式是這一次交通部要推展的一個部分那針對未來的定價的部分到底怎麼定價是由消費者"},{"start":324.838,"end":343.71,"text":"跟那個外送員的工會跟業者平台業者還有地方政府還有這個公路局大家會來共同來擬定跟商討那未來也只會定上線不會有下線那未來的這個收費完之後至少先做到透明啦透明完之後才能討論下一步他們怎麼分配的問題好"},{"start":344.651,"end":359.78,"text":"部長透明了以後我們就是說業者跟工會一起來討論還有消基會共同來討論就是說起碼我們把這個價錢是透明的這個是交通部目前我們在擬定這個修法主要是要讓它透明化"},{"start":360.18,"end":383.019,"text":"因為現在很多的外送員的員工在反映說他根本也不知道實際上收了多少運費那我作為一個消費者其實我也不太清楚他是真的免運費還是假的免運費那未來我們希望說整個運費定價上面可以清楚的讓消費者知道也可以讓這個外送員都清楚好 謝謝齁主委那個我請回不是請你坐回位子"},{"start":384.68,"end":404.425,"text":"那個我想我在這裡顯然就是說你對這一個兩大平台的一個併購變成市長一家獨大對產業真的有利這一個議題前面我在跟你探討的時候你沒有很正向的在回答我啦外送平台它抽成高合併了以後會不會漲絕對漲它的收費絕對漲那合併了以後就是說"},{"start":411.106,"end":428.119,"text":"這個對消費者來講的話事實上就是其實是對我們來講是非常的不利的那如果公平會的態度是這樣的一個態度的話顯然沒有辦法做到公平正義所以這個也是我比較擔心的啦所以我就希望就是說"},{"start":430.263,"end":458.806,"text":"換任這個外送平台合併然後我們還要看到臺灣的這個餐飲業被這個外資掐住了脖子這個是我們比較擔心的所以我們也希望就是說主委你從2024年初的一個調查到現在其實幾乎我們在公平會裡頭沒有去主導一個真正的這個公平正義這個我想是不是把這個那個調查在一個月內給本席好不好"},{"start":459.266,"end":462.163,"text":"好我們會後再跟再提供給好謝謝那謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":866,"blocks":[["賴委員惠員：（12時54分）謝謝主席。有請交通部陳部長、勞動部陳次長、公平交易委員會李主委。"],["主席：請交通部陳部長、勞動部陳次長，還有公平交易委員會李主委。"],["賴委員惠員：在這裡想先請教主席，外委員會委員大概有幾分鐘質詢時間？"],["主席：今天有宣告4加1。"],["賴委員惠員：如果議題沒有講完，我還可以再延續？"],["主席：原則上不行，我這邊會決議，謝謝你。"],["賴委員惠員：謝謝主席。首先請教公平交易委員會李主委。最近兩個外送平臺合併的議題，在社會裡鬧得沸沸揚揚，讓民眾、外送員跟餐廳都受害。也就是Uber 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