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\"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 327.435, \"end\": 327.515, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 327.515, \"end\": 327.535, \"score\": 0.972}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,775 --> 00:00:30,432\n主席有請交通部長、公平會主委、勞動部次長來陳部長、李主委、陳次長想先請教部長外送平台已經是融入民眾日常生活那事實上政府在監督平台運作跟保障消費者外送權益上就要有更大的責任了那我知道部長你知道現在用外送平台點一份雞排大概要多少錢嗎\n\n2\n00:00:32,130 --> 00:00:37,514\n我實際測試從立法院研究大樓訂一份機牌要花150元在現場店家購買是75元但是經過平台加價之後就變兩倍\n\n3\n00:00:52,555 --> 00:01:15,516\n有時候還會遇到一些所謂的配送超時、點餐不服的問題價格高是一回事品質有沒有到就是另外一回事另外我就要想說現在根據外送平台的營運模式平台是對消費者、店家跟外送員是三方進行抽成\n\n4\n00:01:17,518 --> 00:01:33,180\n那首先消費者當然就要支付更高的外送費然後包括現在新的做法又有一些等待計時計加時等待費、樓層費、夜間加層、春節運送那其實成本是一直在往上堆嘛對不對\n\n5\n00:01:34,541 --> 00:01:50,919\n報告委員如果您說的是這次修訂法的那個那個是得不一定會加入但是未來如果大家討論的過程覺得那該加入那到時候再加入現在只有處理第一步就是透明化的部分不過你也知道就是當我們政策其實基本上也是價格引導\n\n6\n00:01:52,130 --> 00:02:08,175\n就當你政策有這個方向性的夜市其實通常市場都有跟進的效應這個我想部長應該知道即便是用德那你當然也會開始帶起這個所謂的目前因為在預告期如果大家認為那個應該拿掉其實是可以拿掉的那是個問題\n\n7\n00:02:08,755 --> 00:02:33,533\n第一步我們要達成的是透明化的我先講有些部分我也沒反對啦是必須講但我只是說我比較關切的是說你加了這些東西我們的那個立法的出發點或是我們政策的出發點在哪裡那有沒有辦法落實這個政策出來比方說我們就覺得說外送員應該要多保障一點吧那有一些加計的費用那你就要有能夠確保保證我們加這些費用它是\n\n8\n00:02:34,861 --> 00:02:48,849\n也外送員的不是最後又變成是平台又抽成抽去這應該是部長瞭解我的用意其實在店家方面其實很多店家表示平台抽成比例已經攀升到32到38\n\n9\n00:02:51,690 --> 00:03:11,549\n好然後呢如果加上我們剛剛講的還有些什麼上架費啊平台使用費啊出單機費用啊那加上一些這些上漲的壓力的話那當然電價壓力就很大嘛所以他們就有價格上漲的壓力就有可能轉嫁給消費者嘛那這是第一個要考量的層面那第二個就是說我想請問就是說\n\n10\n00:03:13,351 --> 00:03:27,298\n目前我們各個部會針對平台的抽成比例有沒有具體的措施或做法避免說店家、消費者、外送員承受不合理的成本轉嫁\n\n11\n00:03:29,213 --> 00:03:55,972\n報告委員在交通部的部分只有針對運價來做制定對這個部分目前我們希望先推第一步就是透明化的部分那再來就是說剛剛所講的增加成本或漲價目前並沒有這樣子的議題因為目前並沒有討論一定會漲價而且我們到時候訂定的那個運價我們是訂上限上限意思是什麼呢它可以往下它要用免運費也OK平台業者願意做一個優惠做到免運費也是可以接受的\n\n12\n00:03:56,432 --> 00:04:23,480\n我們只是訂上限不要超過這個上限那至於分配的部分那就不是由交通部這邊來管理好那哪些部會分配的部分都沒有管理單位跟我們報告就是現在這個議題對勞動部來講我們關心的是這些外送員的報酬是不是合理能夠做保障那我就講外送員好了對所以以目前來看就是因為平台的他的演算法不夠透明所以\n\n13\n00:04:23,900 --> 00:04:48,317\n外送員也不知道他拿到的價格是不是合理那以過去的經驗來看陸續一直都在調降所以這是一個不好的方式所以我們也感謝交通部在運費方面如果有一個公開透明的機制未來在這一方面外送員包括工會就比較知道說他整個平台業者所收取的費用的結構跟內容是什麼那我們才有辦法透過外送員\n\n14\n00:04:49,358 --> 00:05:12,087\n的工會還有協助外送員來爭取他們的權益把他的基本的報酬能夠獲得到一定程度的保障我覺得次長的回答就很好實際上這就是我們各個部門都要一起來做像交通部做的前等於是前段對不對你前段定價出來如果透明化做得好對不對然後後段針對外送員的話我們在\n\n15\n00:05:13,187 --> 00:05:27,535\n透明化的這個基礎之上的話就能夠多一點就能進到分配的部分啦那當然另外公平會就是大家最關切的說那你要不要准他們那個結合嘛這是三方都要去注意的事情好謝謝以上\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1775\t30432\t主席有請交通部長、公平會主委、勞動部次長來陳部長、李主委、陳次長想先請教部長外送平台已經是融入民眾日常生活那事實上政府在監督平台運作跟保障消費者外送權益上就要有更大的責任了那我知道部長你知道現在用外送平台點一份雞排大概要多少錢嗎\n32130\t37514\t我實際測試從立法院研究大樓訂一份機牌要花150元在現場店家購買是75元但是經過平台加價之後就變兩倍\n52555\t75516\t有時候還會遇到一些所謂的配送超時、點餐不服的問題價格高是一回事品質有沒有到就是另外一回事另外我就要想說現在根據外送平台的營運模式平台是對消費者、店家跟外送員是三方進行抽成\n77518\t93180\t那首先消費者當然就要支付更高的外送費然後包括現在新的做法又有一些等待計時計加時等待費、樓層費、夜間加層、春節運送那其實成本是一直在往上堆嘛 對不對\n94541\t110919\t報告委員如果您說的是這次修訂法的那個那個是得不一定會加入但是未來如果大家討論的過程覺得那該加入那到時候再加入現在只有處理第一步就是透明化的部分不過你也知道就是當我們政策其實基本上也是價格引導\n112130\t128175\t就當你政策有這個方向性的夜市其實通常市場都有跟進的效應這個我想部長應該知道即便是用德那你當然也會開始帶起這個所謂的目前因為在預告期如果大家認為那個應該拿掉其實是可以拿掉的那是個問題\n128755\t153533\t第一步我們要達成的是透明化的我先講有些部分我也沒反對啦是必須講但我只是說我比較關切的是說你加了這些東西我們的那個立法的出發點或是我們政策的出發點在哪裡那有沒有辦法落實這個政策出來比方說我們就覺得說外送員應該要多保障一點吧那有一些加計的費用那你就要有能夠確保保證我們加這些費用它是\n154861\t168849\t也外送員的不是最後又變成是平台又抽成抽去這應該是部長瞭解我的用意其實在店家方面其實很多店家表示平台抽成比例已經攀升到32到38\n171690\t191549\t好 然後呢 如果加上我們剛剛講的還有些什麼上架費啊 平台使用費啊 出單機費用啊那加上一些這些上漲的壓力的話 那當然 電價壓力就很大嘛所以他們就有價格上漲的壓力 就有可能轉嫁給消費者嘛那這是第一個要考量的層面 那第二個就是說 我想請問就是說\n193351\t207298\t目前我們各個部會針對平台的抽成比例有沒有具體的措施或做法避免說店家、消費者、外送員承受不合理的成本轉嫁\n209213\t235972\t報告委員在交通部的部分只有針對運價來做制定對這個部分目前我們希望先推第一步就是透明化的部分那再來就是說剛剛所講的增加成本或漲價目前並沒有這樣子的議題因為目前並沒有討論一定會漲價而且我們到時候訂定的那個運價我們是訂上限上限意思是什麼呢它可以往下它要用免運費也OK平台業者願意做一個優惠做到免運費也是可以接受的\n236432\t263480\t我們只是訂上限不要超過這個上限那至於分配的部分那就不是由交通部這邊來管理好那哪些部會分配的部分都沒有管理單位跟我們報告就是現在這個議題對勞動部來講我們關心的是這些外送員的報酬是不是合理能夠做保障那我就講外送員好了對所以以目前來看就是因為平台的他的演算法不夠透明所以\n263900\t288317\t外送員也不知道他拿到的價格是不是合理那以過去的經驗來看陸續一直都在調降所以這是一個不好的方式所以我們也感謝交通部在運費方面如果有一個公開透明的機制未來在這一方面外送員包括工會就比較知道說他整個平台業者所收取的費用的結構跟內容是什麼那我們才有辦法透過外送員\n289358\t312087\t的工會還有協助外送員來爭取他們的權益把他的基本的報酬能夠獲得到一定程度的保障我覺得次長的回答就很好實際上這就是我們各個部門都要一起來做像交通部做的前等於是前段對不對你前段定價出來如果透明化做得好對不對然後後段針對外送員的話我們在\n313187\t327535\t透明化的這個基礎之上的話就能夠多一點就能進到分配的部分啦那當然另外公平會就是大家最關切的說那你要不要准他們那個結合嘛這是三方都要去注意的事情好 謝謝 以上\n","txt":"主席有請交通部長、公平會主委、勞動部次長來陳部長、李主委、陳次長想先請教部長外送平台已經是融入民眾日常生活那事實上政府在監督平台運作跟保障消費者外送權益上就要有更大的責任了那我知道部長你知道現在用外送平台點一份雞排大概要多少錢嗎\n我實際測試從立法院研究大樓訂一份機牌要花150元在現場店家購買是75元但是經過平台加價之後就變兩倍\n有時候還會遇到一些所謂的配送超時、點餐不服的問題價格高是一回事品質有沒有到就是另外一回事另外我就要想說現在根據外送平台的營運模式平台是對消費者、店家跟外送員是三方進行抽成\n那首先消費者當然就要支付更高的外送費然後包括現在新的做法又有一些等待計時計加時等待費、樓層費、夜間加層、春節運送那其實成本是一直在往上堆嘛 對不對\n報告委員如果您說的是這次修訂法的那個那個是得不一定會加入但是未來如果大家討論的過程覺得那該加入那到時候再加入現在只有處理第一步就是透明化的部分不過你也知道就是當我們政策其實基本上也是價格引導\n就當你政策有這個方向性的夜市其實通常市場都有跟進的效應這個我想部長應該知道即便是用德那你當然也會開始帶起這個所謂的目前因為在預告期如果大家認為那個應該拿掉其實是可以拿掉的那是個問題\n第一步我們要達成的是透明化的我先講有些部分我也沒反對啦是必須講但我只是說我比較關切的是說你加了這些東西我們的那個立法的出發點或是我們政策的出發點在哪裡那有沒有辦法落實這個政策出來比方說我們就覺得說外送員應該要多保障一點吧那有一些加計的費用那你就要有能夠確保保證我們加這些費用它是\n也外送員的不是最後又變成是平台又抽成抽去這應該是部長瞭解我的用意其實在店家方面其實很多店家表示平台抽成比例已經攀升到32到38\n好 然後呢 如果加上我們剛剛講的還有些什麼上架費啊 平台使用費啊 出單機費用啊那加上一些這些上漲的壓力的話 那當然 電價壓力就很大嘛所以他們就有價格上漲的壓力 就有可能轉嫁給消費者嘛那這是第一個要考量的層面 那第二個就是說 我想請問就是說\n目前我們各個部會針對平台的抽成比例有沒有具體的措施或做法避免說店家、消費者、外送員承受不合理的成本轉嫁\n報告委員在交通部的部分只有針對運價來做制定對這個部分目前我們希望先推第一步就是透明化的部分那再來就是說剛剛所講的增加成本或漲價目前並沒有這樣子的議題因為目前並沒有討論一定會漲價而且我們到時候訂定的那個運價我們是訂上限上限意思是什麼呢它可以往下它要用免運費也OK平台業者願意做一個優惠做到免運費也是可以接受的\n我們只是訂上限不要超過這個上限那至於分配的部分那就不是由交通部這邊來管理好那哪些部會分配的部分都沒有管理單位跟我們報告就是現在這個議題對勞動部來講我們關心的是這些外送員的報酬是不是合理能夠做保障那我就講外送員好了對所以以目前來看就是因為平台的他的演算法不夠透明所以\n外送員也不知道他拿到的價格是不是合理那以過去的經驗來看陸續一直都在調降所以這是一個不好的方式所以我們也感謝交通部在運費方面如果有一個公開透明的機制未來在這一方面外送員包括工會就比較知道說他整個平台業者所收取的費用的結構跟內容是什麼那我們才有辦法透過外送員\n的工會還有協助外送員來爭取他們的權益把他的基本的報酬能夠獲得到一定程度的保障我覺得次長的回答就很好實際上這就是我們各個部門都要一起來做像交通部做的前等於是前段對不對你前段定價出來如果透明化做得好對不對然後後段針對外送員的話我們在\n透明化的這個基礎之上的話就能夠多一點就能進到分配的部分啦那當然另外公平會就是大家最關切的說那你要不要准他們那個結合嘛這是三方都要去注意的事情好 謝謝 以上\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.775 --> 00:30.432\n主席有請交通部長、公平會主委、勞動部次長來陳部長、李主委、陳次長想先請教部長外送平台已經是融入民眾日常生活那事實上政府在監督平台運作跟保障消費者外送權益上就要有更大的責任了那我知道部長你知道現在用外送平台點一份雞排大概要多少錢嗎\n\n00:32.130 --> 00:37.514\n我實際測試從立法院研究大樓訂一份機牌要花150元在現場店家購買是75元但是經過平台加價之後就變兩倍\n\n00:52.555 --> 01:15.516\n有時候還會遇到一些所謂的配送超時、點餐不服的問題價格高是一回事品質有沒有到就是另外一回事另外我就要想說現在根據外送平台的營運模式平台是對消費者、店家跟外送員是三方進行抽成\n\n01:17.518 --> 01:33.180\n那首先消費者當然就要支付更高的外送費然後包括現在新的做法又有一些等待計時計加時等待費、樓層費、夜間加層、春節運送那其實成本是一直在往上堆嘛對不對\n\n01:34.541 --> 01:50.919\n報告委員如果您說的是這次修訂法的那個那個是得不一定會加入但是未來如果大家討論的過程覺得那該加入那到時候再加入現在只有處理第一步就是透明化的部分不過你也知道就是當我們政策其實基本上也是價格引導\n\n01:52.130 --> 02:08.175\n就當你政策有這個方向性的夜市其實通常市場都有跟進的效應這個我想部長應該知道即便是用德那你當然也會開始帶起這個所謂的目前因為在預告期如果大家認為那個應該拿掉其實是可以拿掉的那是個問題\n\n02:08.755 --> 02:33.533\n第一步我們要達成的是透明化的我先講有些部分我也沒反對啦是必須講但我只是說我比較關切的是說你加了這些東西我們的那個立法的出發點或是我們政策的出發點在哪裡那有沒有辦法落實這個政策出來比方說我們就覺得說外送員應該要多保障一點吧那有一些加計的費用那你就要有能夠確保保證我們加這些費用它是\n\n02:34.861 --> 02:48.849\n也外送員的不是最後又變成是平台又抽成抽去這應該是部長瞭解我的用意其實在店家方面其實很多店家表示平台抽成比例已經攀升到32到38\n\n02:51.690 --> 03:11.549\n好然後呢如果加上我們剛剛講的還有些什麼上架費啊平台使用費啊出單機費用啊那加上一些這些上漲的壓力的話那當然電價壓力就很大嘛所以他們就有價格上漲的壓力就有可能轉嫁給消費者嘛那這是第一個要考量的層面那第二個就是說我想請問就是說\n\n03:13.351 --> 03:27.298\n目前我們各個部會針對平台的抽成比例有沒有具體的措施或做法避免說店家、消費者、外送員承受不合理的成本轉嫁\n\n03:29.213 --> 03:55.972\n報告委員在交通部的部分只有針對運價來做制定對這個部分目前我們希望先推第一步就是透明化的部分那再來就是說剛剛所講的增加成本或漲價目前並沒有這樣子的議題因為目前並沒有討論一定會漲價而且我們到時候訂定的那個運價我們是訂上限上限意思是什麼呢它可以往下它要用免運費也OK平台業者願意做一個優惠做到免運費也是可以接受的\n\n03:56.432 --> 04:23.480\n我們只是訂上限不要超過這個上限那至於分配的部分那就不是由交通部這邊來管理好那哪些部會分配的部分都沒有管理單位跟我們報告就是現在這個議題對勞動部來講我們關心的是這些外送員的報酬是不是合理能夠做保障那我就講外送員好了對所以以目前來看就是因為平台的他的演算法不夠透明所以\n\n04:23.900 --> 04:48.317\n外送員也不知道他拿到的價格是不是合理那以過去的經驗來看陸續一直都在調降所以這是一個不好的方式所以我們也感謝交通部在運費方面如果有一個公開透明的機制未來在這一方面外送員包括工會就比較知道說他整個平台業者所收取的費用的結構跟內容是什麼那我們才有辦法透過外送員\n\n04:49.358 --> 05:12.087\n的工會還有協助外送員來爭取他們的權益把他的基本的報酬能夠獲得到一定程度的保障我覺得次長的回答就很好實際上這就是我們各個部門都要一起來做像交通部做的前等於是前段對不對你前段定價出來如果透明化做得好對不對然後後段針對外送員的話我們在\n\n05:13.187 --> 05:27.535\n透明化的這個基礎之上的話就能夠多一點就能進到分配的部分啦那當然另外公平會就是大家最關切的說那你要不要准他們那個結合嘛這是三方都要去注意的事情好謝謝以上\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.775,"end":30.432,"text":"主席有請交通部長、公平會主委、勞動部次長來陳部長、李主委、陳次長想先請教部長外送平台已經是融入民眾日常生活那事實上政府在監督平台運作跟保障消費者外送權益上就要有更大的責任了那我知道部長你知道現在用外送平台點一份雞排大概要多少錢嗎"},{"start":32.13,"end":37.514,"text":"我實際測試從立法院研究大樓訂一份機牌要花150元在現場店家購買是75元但是經過平台加價之後就變兩倍"},{"start":52.555,"end":75.516,"text":"有時候還會遇到一些所謂的配送超時、點餐不服的問題價格高是一回事品質有沒有到就是另外一回事另外我就要想說現在根據外送平台的營運模式平台是對消費者、店家跟外送員是三方進行抽成"},{"start":77.518,"end":93.18,"text":"那首先消費者當然就要支付更高的外送費然後包括現在新的做法又有一些等待計時計加時等待費、樓層費、夜間加層、春節運送那其實成本是一直在往上堆嘛 對不對"},{"start":94.541,"end":110.919,"text":"報告委員如果您說的是這次修訂法的那個那個是得不一定會加入但是未來如果大家討論的過程覺得那該加入那到時候再加入現在只有處理第一步就是透明化的部分不過你也知道就是當我們政策其實基本上也是價格引導"},{"start":112.13,"end":128.175,"text":"就當你政策有這個方向性的夜市其實通常市場都有跟進的效應這個我想部長應該知道即便是用德那你當然也會開始帶起這個所謂的目前因為在預告期如果大家認為那個應該拿掉其實是可以拿掉的那是個問題"},{"start":128.755,"end":153.533,"text":"第一步我們要達成的是透明化的我先講有些部分我也沒反對啦是必須講但我只是說我比較關切的是說你加了這些東西我們的那個立法的出發點或是我們政策的出發點在哪裡那有沒有辦法落實這個政策出來比方說我們就覺得說外送員應該要多保障一點吧那有一些加計的費用那你就要有能夠確保保證我們加這些費用它是"},{"start":154.861,"end":168.849,"text":"也外送員的不是最後又變成是平台又抽成抽去這應該是部長瞭解我的用意其實在店家方面其實很多店家表示平台抽成比例已經攀升到32到38"},{"start":171.69,"end":191.549,"text":"好 然後呢 如果加上我們剛剛講的還有些什麼上架費啊 平台使用費啊 出單機費用啊那加上一些這些上漲的壓力的話 那當然 電價壓力就很大嘛所以他們就有價格上漲的壓力 就有可能轉嫁給消費者嘛那這是第一個要考量的層面 那第二個就是說 我想請問就是說"},{"start":193.351,"end":207.298,"text":"目前我們各個部會針對平台的抽成比例有沒有具體的措施或做法避免說店家、消費者、外送員承受不合理的成本轉嫁"},{"start":209.213,"end":235.972,"text":"報告委員在交通部的部分只有針對運價來做制定對這個部分目前我們希望先推第一步就是透明化的部分那再來就是說剛剛所講的增加成本或漲價目前並沒有這樣子的議題因為目前並沒有討論一定會漲價而且我們到時候訂定的那個運價我們是訂上限上限意思是什麼呢它可以往下它要用免運費也OK平台業者願意做一個優惠做到免運費也是可以接受的"},{"start":236.432,"end":263.48,"text":"我們只是訂上限不要超過這個上限那至於分配的部分那就不是由交通部這邊來管理好那哪些部會分配的部分都沒有管理單位跟我們報告就是現在這個議題對勞動部來講我們關心的是這些外送員的報酬是不是合理能夠做保障那我就講外送員好了對所以以目前來看就是因為平台的他的演算法不夠透明所以"},{"start":263.9,"end":288.317,"text":"外送員也不知道他拿到的價格是不是合理那以過去的經驗來看陸續一直都在調降所以這是一個不好的方式所以我們也感謝交通部在運費方面如果有一個公開透明的機制未來在這一方面外送員包括工會就比較知道說他整個平台業者所收取的費用的結構跟內容是什麼那我們才有辦法透過外送員"},{"start":289.358,"end":312.087,"text":"的工會還有協助外送員來爭取他們的權益把他的基本的報酬能夠獲得到一定程度的保障我覺得次長的回答就很好實際上這就是我們各個部門都要一起來做像交通部做的前等於是前段對不對你前段定價出來如果透明化做得好對不對然後後段針對外送員的話我們在"},{"start":313.187,"end":327.535,"text":"透明化的這個基礎之上的話就能夠多一點就能進到分配的部分啦那當然另外公平會就是大家最關切的說那你要不要准他們那個結合嘛這是三方都要去注意的事情好 謝謝 以上"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":993,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（13時20分）主席，有請交通部長、公平會主委、勞動部次長。"],["主席：請陳部長、李主委、陳次長。"],["羅委員智強：想先請教部長，外送平臺已經融入民眾日常生活，事實上政府在監督平臺運作跟保障消費者外送的權益上，就要有更大的責任。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["羅委員智強：我不曉得部長知不知道，現在用外送平臺點一份雞排大概多少錢嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：我看應該都80以上欸！"],["羅委員智強：80，你太低估了。我實際測試，從立法院研究大樓訂一份雞排要花150元，在現場店家購買是75元，但是經過平臺加價之後就變兩倍，有時候還會遇到一些所謂的配送超時、點餐不符的問題，價格高是一回事，品質有沒有到就是另外一回事。另外，現在根據外送平臺的營運模式，平臺是對消費者、店家跟外送員三方進行抽成，對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["羅委員智強：首先，消費者當然就要支付更高的外送費，包括現在新的作法又用一些加時等待費、樓層費、夜間加成、春節運送等，其實成本是一直在往上堆嘛，對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，如果您說的是這次修訂法定的那個……"],["羅委員智強：對。"],["陳部長世凱：那個是「得」，不一定會加入，但是未來如果大家討論的過程，覺得那個該加入，那到時候再加入。"],["羅委員智強：是。"],["陳部長世凱：現在只有處理第一步，就是運價透明化的部分。"],["羅委員智強：不過你也知道我們的政策，其實基本上也是價格引導啦！當你政策有這個方向性的揭示，其實市場都會有跟進效應，我想部長應該知道，即便你是用「得」，當然也會開始帶起這個所謂的……"],["陳部長世凱：目前因為是在預告期，如果大家認為那個應該拿掉，其實是可以拿掉的，那個沒有問題。"],["羅委員智強：是，好。"],["陳部長世凱：第一步我們要達成的是運價透明化的部分……"],["羅委員智強：我必須先講，有些部分我也沒反對啦！但我只是比較關切，當你加了這些東西，我們立法的出發點或是政策的出發點在哪裡？有沒有辦法落實這個政策？比方說，我們就覺得外送員應該要多保障一點，有一些加計的費用，那你就要能夠確保、保證我們加這些費用，它是給外送員的，不是最後又變成平臺又抽成抽去了，部長應該是瞭解我的用意嘛，對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：我瞭解。"],["羅委員智強：像在店家方面，其實有很多店家表示，平臺抽成比例已經攀升到32%到38%，加上我們剛剛講的還有些什麼上架費、平臺使用費、出單機費用，加上一些上漲的壓力，當然店家的壓力就很大，所以他們就有價格上漲的壓力，就有可能轉嫁給消費者，這是第一個要考量的層面。第二個，我想請問的是，目前我們各個部會針對所謂的平臺抽成比例有沒有一些具體的措施，或者是一些作法，避免店家、消費者、外送員承受不合理的成本轉嫁？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，在交通部的部分，只有針對運價來做制定啦。"],["羅委員智強：對。"],["陳部長世凱：這個部分，目前我們希望先推第一步就是透明化的部分；再來，對剛剛所講的增加成本或漲價，目前並沒有這樣子的議題，因為目前並沒有討論一定會漲價，而且我們到時候訂定的運價，我們是訂上限，上限意思是什麼呢？它可以往下，它要用免運費也OK，平臺業者願意做一個優惠、做到免運費，也是可以接受的，我們只是訂上限，不要超過這個上限，至於分配的部分，那就不是由交通部這邊來管理。"],["羅委員智強：好，分配的部分是哪些部會？都沒有管理單位？"],["陳次長明仁：跟委員報告，現在這個議題對於勞動部來講，我們關心的是這些外送員的報酬是不是合理，能夠做保障。"],["羅委員智強：我就講外送員好了。"],["陳次長明仁：對，以目前來看，就是因為平臺的演算法不夠透明，所以外送員也不知道他拿到的價格是不是合理，以過去的經驗來看，陸續一直都在調降，所以這是一個不好的方式，我們也感謝交通部在運費方面，如果有一個公開、透明的機制，未來在這一方面，外送員、包括工會，就比較知道整個平臺業者所收取的費用結構跟內容是什麼，我們才有辦法透過外送員的工會，還有協助外送員來爭取他們的權益，讓他的基本報酬能夠獲得一定程度的保障。"],["羅委員智強：我覺得次長的回答就很好，實際上，這就是各個部門都要一起來做的，像交通部做的等於是前段，對不對？你前段定價出來，如果透明化做得好，後段針對外送員的話，我們在透明化的基礎之上，就能進到分配的部分。當然另外，公平會就是大家最關切的，那你要不要准他們結合嘛，這是三方都要去注意的事情，謝謝，以上。"],["主席：謝謝羅委員，接下來有請王鴻薇委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":366,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-7","speakers":["魯明哲","李昆澤","林國成","林沛祥","林俊憲","許智傑","廖先翔","徐富癸","邱若華","陳雪生","陳素月","蔡其昌","林月琴","李坤城","鍾佳濱","牛煦庭","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","賴惠員","黃健豪","羅廷瑋","羅智強","王鴻薇","何欣純","楊瓊瓔","黃捷","游顥","陳冠廷"],"page_start":289,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1139001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、公平交易委員會主任委員李鎂、數位發展部次長、勞動部次長、衛\n生福利部、經濟部、個人資料保護委員會籌備處及行政院消費者保護處就「外送平台之整併、收\n費指引、個資保護、產業發展、勞工權益及食品物流安全規範」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、\n邀請交通部公路局局長就「公路大型客貨運駕駛短缺之因應措施暨現行遊覽車評鑑制度之檢討與\n精進」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139001_00005"}}}