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\"text\": \"2012 FUPENTA 成立2016 Uber Eats 進軍臺灣這十幾年來都沒有人理欸就任由他在這個市場上他說要漲就漲他說要怎麼樣就怎麼樣那外送員的這個權益呢就任由平台的糟蹋\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"F\", \"start\": 87.601, \"end\": 87.641, \"score\": 0.46}, {\"word\": \"U\", \"start\": 87.641, \"end\": 87.741, \"score\": 0.63}, {\"word\": \"P\", \"start\": 87.741, \"end\": 87.761, \"score\": 0.019}, {\"word\": \"E\", \"start\": 87.761, \"end\": 87.861, \"score\": 0.705}, {\"word\": \"N\", \"start\": 87.861, \"end\": 87.881, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"T\", \"start\": 87.881, \"end\": 87.901, \"score\": 0.004}, {\"word\": \"A\", \"start\": 87.901, \"end\": 88.061, \"score\": 0.45}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 88.061, \"end\": 88.221, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 88.221, \"end\": 88.662, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"U\", \"start\": 88.662, \"end\": 89.782, \"score\": 0.753}, 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0.612}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 93.285, \"end\": 93.505, \"score\": 0.712}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 93.505, \"end\": 94.385, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"欸\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 94.385, \"end\": 94.586, \"score\": 0.607}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 94.586, \"end\": 94.806, \"score\": 0.728}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 94.806, \"end\": 95.026, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 95.026, \"end\": 95.306, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 95.306, \"end\": 95.866, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 95.866, \"end\": 96.287, \"score\": 0.697}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 96.287, \"end\": 96.727, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 96.727, \"end\": 97.187, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 97.187, \"end\": 97.688, \"score\": 0.782}, {\"word\": \"漲\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 97.688, \"end\": 98.288, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"漲\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 98.288, \"end\": 98.708, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 98.708, \"end\": 98.928, \"score\": 0.676}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 98.928, \"end\": 99.329, \"score\": 0.704}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 99.329, \"end\": 99.489, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 99.489, \"end\": 100.149, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 100.149, \"end\": 100.449, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 100.449, \"end\": 100.63, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"送\", \"start\": 100.63, \"end\": 101.05, \"score\": 0.716}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 101.05, \"end\": 101.63, \"score\": 0.614}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"益\", \"start\": 101.63, \"end\": 101.79, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 101.79, \"end\": 102.011, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 102.011, \"end\": 102.191, \"score\": 0.62}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 102.191, \"end\": 102.351, \"score\": 0.646}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 102.351, \"end\": 102.551, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 102.551, \"end\": 102.791, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 102.791, \"end\": 102.991, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 102.991, \"end\": 103.151, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"糟\", \"start\": 103.151, \"end\": 103.171, \"score\": 0.054}, {\"word\": \"蹋\"}]}, {\"start\": 104.679, \"end\": 114.126, \"text\": \"任何問題都是平台說了算那消費者也只能被動的也只能無奈的承受他要漲就漲、要怎樣就怎樣所以運費十幾年來沒有人管理那現在交通部願意承擔要來管\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 104.679, \"end\": 104.859, \"score\": 0.702}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 104.859, \"end\": 105.86, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 105.86, \"end\": 106.08, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 106.08, \"end\": 106.28, \"score\": 0.729}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 106.28, \"end\": 106.46, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 106.46, \"end\": 106.861, \"score\": 0.784}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 106.861, \"end\": 107.041, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 107.041, \"end\": 107.601, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 107.601, \"end\": 107.861, \"score\": 0.694}, {\"word\": \"消\", \"start\": 107.861, \"end\": 108.242, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 108.242, \"end\": 108.522, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 108.522, \"end\": 108.762, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 108.762, \"end\": 108.882, \"score\": 0.669}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 108.882, \"end\": 109.643, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 109.643, \"end\": 110.063, \"score\": 0.642}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 110.063, \"end\": 110.423, \"score\": 0.759}, {\"word\": \"也\", 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\"score\": 0.725}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 113.226, \"end\": 113.406, \"score\": 0.689}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 113.406, \"end\": 113.526, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 113.526, \"end\": 113.546, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 113.546, \"end\": 113.566, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"十\", \"start\": 113.566, \"end\": 113.666, \"score\": 0.275}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 113.666, \"end\": 113.686, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 113.686, \"end\": 113.766, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 113.766, \"end\": 113.786, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 113.786, \"end\": 113.806, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 113.806, \"end\": 113.826, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 113.826, \"end\": 113.846, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 113.846, \"end\": 113.866, 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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 216.221, \"end\": 216.401, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 216.401, \"end\": 216.641, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 216.641, \"end\": 217.222, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"誰\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 217.222, \"end\": 217.462, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"負\", \"start\": 217.462, \"end\": 218.063, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"擔\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 218.063, \"end\": 218.243, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"送\", \"start\": 218.243, \"end\": 219.684, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"折\", \"start\": 219.684, \"end\": 220.185, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"舊\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 220.185, \"end\": 220.325, \"score\": 0.784}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 220.325, \"end\": 220.525, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 220.525, \"end\": 220.866, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"誰\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 220.866, 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226.332, \"end\": 226.532, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 226.532, \"end\": 226.892, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 226.892, \"end\": 226.993, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 226.993, \"end\": 227.073, \"score\": 0.696}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 227.073, \"end\": 227.353, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"薪\", \"start\": 227.353, \"end\": 227.793, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 227.793, \"end\": 228.094, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 228.094, \"end\": 228.274, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 228.274, \"end\": 228.614, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 228.614, \"end\": 228.875, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 228.875, \"end\": 229.055, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 229.055, \"end\": 229.295, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 229.295, \"end\": 229.816, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 229.816, \"end\": 230.056, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 230.056, \"end\": 230.757, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"則\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 230.757, \"end\": 230.877, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 230.877, \"end\": 231.037, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 231.037, \"end\": 231.117, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 231.117, \"end\": 231.137, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 231.137, \"end\": 231.518, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 231.518, \"end\": 231.778, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"均\", \"start\": 231.778, \"end\": 231.938, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 231.938, \"end\": 232.098, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 232.098, \"end\": 232.118, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"則\"}]}, {\"start\": 234.641, \"end\": 255.011, \"text\": 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252.95, \"end\": 253.09, \"score\": 0.69}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 253.09, \"end\": 253.59, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 253.59, \"end\": 254.171, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"又\", \"start\": 254.171, \"end\": 254.391, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 254.391, \"end\": 254.651, \"score\": 0.714}, {\"word\": \"依\", \"start\": 254.651, \"end\": 254.851, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 254.851, \"end\": 254.871, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 254.871, \"end\": 254.991, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 254.991, \"end\": 255.011, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}]}, {\"start\": 258.803, \"end\": 285.564, \"text\": \"準則保護委員四輪的跟兩輪當然都不一樣是啊那四輪的當然車型也不一定都一樣都不一樣 外送也沒的 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0.974}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 547.141, \"end\": 547.381, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 547.381, \"end\": 547.923, \"score\": 0.784}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 547.923, \"end\": 548.083, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 548.083, \"end\": 548.243, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"送\", \"start\": 548.243, \"end\": 548.504, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 548.504, \"end\": 548.805, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 548.805, \"end\": 549.226, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 549.226, \"end\": 549.547, \"score\": 0.703}, {\"word\": \"併\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 549.547, \"end\": 549.807, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 549.807, \"end\": 549.908, \"score\": 0.709}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 549.908, \"end\": 549.928, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 549.928, \"end\": 550.449, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 550.449, \"end\": 550.75, \"score\": 0.717}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 550.75, \"end\": 550.85, \"score\": 0.675}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 550.85, \"end\": 550.87, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,543 --> 00:00:08,449\n好謝謝昭偉我們請陳世凱部長跟這個陳部長還有公平會主委李主委\n\n2\n00:00:14,265 --> 00:00:39,326\n主委好我再強調一次再公開表示一次我堅決反對兩大外送平台合併我在上次的總質詢裡面也跟卓榮泰卓院長也表示過那我必須說我一開始在上一次的交通委員會裡面我就要求我們交通部第一個\n\n3\n00:00:40,578 --> 00:00:55,217\n也是我質詢讓大家知道說原來我們的外送業者是登記在交通部的這個所謂的汽車運輸業的客貨運這樣子的一個象象\n\n4\n00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:20,016\n所以我們推動什麼推動外送平台訂費必須透明化所以剛剛陳世凱部長也講我們現在在訂這個規則是讓它透明化那透明化之後呢接下來我們就要要求什麼合理化保障各方權益之下的合理化那我覺得公平會主委你也不要一直說你們只是依法來行事我認為你應該勇於認識為什麼呢因為這個\n\n5\n00:01:27,601 --> 00:01:43,171\n2012FUPENTA成立2016UberEats進軍臺灣這十幾年來都沒有人理欸就任由他在這個市場上他說要漲就漲他說要怎麼樣就怎麼樣那外送員的這個權益呢就任由平台的糟蹋\n\n6\n00:01:44,679 --> 00:01:54,126\n任何問題都是平台說了算那消費者也只能被動的也只能無奈的承受他要漲就漲、要怎樣就怎樣所以運費十幾年來沒有人管理那現在交通部願意承擔要來管\n\n7\n00:02:01,952 --> 00:02:15,941\n那我覺得各方的保障如何就定位就是一個最重要的議題囉就如同剛剛今天很多委員都提到這件事情接下來下一頁所以我現在就要問我們陳部長先問陳部長在我們交通部訂的這個規則裡面這個費率的規則裡面準則啦你們新增了八條之一嘛那我就要問喔\n\n8\n00:02:27,827 --> 00:02:34,311\n我們外送平台現在外送是用兩輪的啦騎摩托車啦那過去你們這個汽車運輸業客貨運的運價準則呢是管四輪的啦那用兩輪的跟比照四輪的這個計算成本這個是怎麼來比較合理嗎欸我不知道這你要來適宜喔第二個我們雖然說他的運費\n\n9\n00:02:53,402 --> 00:03:09,820\n透明很重要費率的如何的計算基礎也很重要我舉一個例子在你們新增了這個準則八條之一之後呢你們說依據第五條公示中的每車公里什麼合理成本我就要提出一些一般人都在問的\n\n10\n00:03:14,255 --> 00:03:18,636\n這個包括油料、燃料、輪胎、車輛折舊、修車、業務還有薪資我跟你講外送平台的外送員車是外送員的車對沒錯自動車\n\n11\n00:03:36,221 --> 00:03:52,118\n維護的成本誰在負擔?外送員對折舊的成本誰在負擔?外送員那薪資抱歉外送員接單不一嘛所以他薪資怎麼有一個合理的一個計算準則或者是有一個平均的準則\n\n12\n00:03:54,641 --> 00:04:15,011\n我不知道你們是怎麼用這樣子所謂的合理成本因為這些每一點你都是這個外送平台的營業秘密或者是這些資料都在這個每一個外送員的身上而且每一個外送員他所擔的成本跟付出是不一樣的那請問一下你們的手上的資料到底哪裡來呢又何依據來做這一個運費的這個\n\n13\n00:04:18,803 --> 00:04:45,564\n準則保護委員四輪的跟兩輪當然都不一樣是啊那四輪的當然車型也不一定都一樣都不一樣外送也沒的車型也不一樣那只能抓一個平均值當時四輪是這樣定那未來兩輪當然也是一樣同樣的準則就是說大家的摩托車價格不一定一樣但我們抓一個中間點或是一個平均值那輪胎大家用的品質也不一樣所以各種方式的計算在機車尤其是兩輪的部分我們要重新來計算\n\n14\n00:04:46,845 --> 00:05:11,250\n我們現在第一步先確定說有要透明化這件事要透明化第二步就是來開始計算它的成本大概是在哪裡這個就是大家在問的嘛因為我跟你講各方的權益都要受保障那各方的權益都要受保障的時候我剛剛講的嘛你如果你訂了那個運費的基本的這個依據讓人家有問號的時候或者是你解釋不清楚的時候\n\n15\n00:05:12,630 --> 00:05:20,838\n那當然大家就會有質疑嘛是不是所以才問大家現在連基本費基本費奠基在哪裡我剛剛講的那些細項啊那續承費、等待費、樓層費、夜間春節加成等等我覺得這個都要一頁的去說清楚而且要合理的告訴大家你是怎麼訂出來的\n\n16\n00:05:31,748 --> 00:05:58,240\n委員您這樣說非常的正確啦齁其實我的目標是第一步先處理運費的透明化那至於剛剛在講的樓層費或等待費這些是由外送員工會他們提出來的但未來的討論我們是由五方來討論所以這些不一定會放進去那個是德啦可以討論但是不一定會放進去我知道但是雖然是德可以討論但是有一個德就有一個依據可以討論有這個可以討論未來就會形成這個要收費的標準嘛那\n\n17\n00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:18,861\n要收費的合理我相信大家都可以接受那我們現在大部分的人是在於那個合理到底是什麼才叫做合理所以我覺得這個我們主管機關也必須要有責任來去擔起說除了透明化之後那個合理的運費到底是如何計算出來\n\n18\n00:06:19,561 --> 00:06:45,503\n收費合理這是大家最關心的一件事而且這個收費合理包括剛剛很多委員提到的平台跟店家該怎麼收費是合理的那平台跟消費者該怎麼收費是合理的那外送員呢他的這個薪資從平台得到的薪資什麼是合理的這個就是兼顧小商家外送員跟消費者我們的初衷就是在這裡不是嗎部長\n\n19\n00:06:46,604 --> 00:07:09,118\n沒錯嘛對不對那甚至我還關心到如果偏遠地區呢對不對偏遠地區那又該如何去計價呢那如何才叫做合理那第三個到時候的計價模式消費者然後外送員平台再加上地方政府加上地方政府也就是說每一個地區地方政府也會加入所以每個地區的計價方式可能會不一樣\n\n20\n00:07:10,117 --> 00:07:18,582\n所以就因地制宜那偏鄉更要因地制宜嘛對不對第三點就關係到公平會理事會啦我上次在總諮詢就提出這個問題囉外送平台兩大外送平台要合併案到現在你給他11月8號之前要他補件那如果11月8號他還是不補件沒有補期權好你就沒有審\n\n21\n00:07:31,909 --> 00:07:51,617\n沒有審呢那到時候呢等到了你們的人事權你明年1月要到任還有其他3個委員要到任總共就有4個委員要到任那到時候如果到明年1月之前他們補件還沒有完成沒有成案沒有成案沒有辦法審所以他就沒有合併可是他也有可能等到你們的人事\n\n22\n00:07:53,077 --> 00:08:18,237\n這個人事的這個到任之後呢他在送件送件了之後呢沒有委員可以審那他會不會變相的就就地合併成功文件齊備以後才開始算審查期間那我們的委員目前編制是7位如果有請假或是缺位等等情形我們是依現有的現有的這個委員數來做現有的委員數如果是叫做\n\n23\n00:08:19,338 --> 00:08:21,321\n相對的少數那這個審查有沒有合法這是一個大家的問題那最後我還必須要提醒你們希望大家多聽多方的意見這個交通部在訂定這個費率的時候不管是我要再強調店家、外送員跟消費者\n\n24\n00:08:36,658 --> 00:09:04,158\n多方的意見我們都要傾聽而且要適時的雖然你們已經在預告了該調整就調整該因地制宜就因地制宜那主委我再講一次我堅決反對兩大外送平台合併壟斷台灣的市場這個對國人、對消費者、對外送員、對店家任何一方都是不利的、都是不好的所以主委請你一定要趕快趕快地放在心上\n\n25\n00:09:05,236 --> 00:09:10,870\n很多人、大部分的人都反對兩大外送平台合併的好不好好以上謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n543\t8449\t好 謝謝昭偉 我們請陳世凱部長跟這個陳部長還有公平會主委李主委\n14265\t39326\t主委好我再強調一次再公開表示一次我堅決反對兩大外送平台合併我在上次的總質詢裡面也跟卓榮泰卓院長也表示過那我必須說我一開始在上一次的交通委員會裡面我就要求我們交通部第一個\n40578\t55217\t也是我質詢讓大家知道說原來我們的外送業者是登記在交通部的這個所謂的汽車運輸業的客貨運這樣子的一個象象\n56840\t80016\t所以我們推動什麼推動外送平台訂費必須透明化所以剛剛陳世凱部長也講我們現在在訂這個規則是讓它透明化那透明化之後呢接下來我們就要要求什麼合理化保障各方權益之下的合理化那我覺得公平會主委你也不要一直說你們只是依法來行事我認為你應該勇於認識為什麼呢因為這個\n87601\t103171\t2012 FUPENTA 成立2016 Uber Eats 進軍臺灣這十幾年來都沒有人理欸就任由他在這個市場上他說要漲就漲他說要怎麼樣就怎麼樣那外送員的這個權益呢就任由平台的糟蹋\n104679\t114126\t任何問題都是平台說了算那消費者也只能被動的也只能無奈的承受他要漲就漲、要怎樣就怎樣所以運費十幾年來沒有人管理那現在交通部願意承擔要來管\n121952\t135941\t那我覺得各方的保障如何就定位就是一個最重要的議題囉就如同剛剛今天很多委員都提到這件事情接下來下一頁所以我現在就要問我們陳部長先問陳部長在我們交通部訂的這個規則裡面這個費率的規則裡面準則啦你們新增了八條之一嘛那我就要問喔\n147827\t154311\t我們外送平台現在外送是用兩輪的啦騎摩托車啦那過去你們這個汽車運輸業客貨運的運價準則呢是管四輪的啦那用兩輪的跟比照四輪的這個計算成本這個是怎麼來比較合理嗎欸我不知道這你要來適宜喔第二個我們雖然說他的運費\n173402\t189820\t透明很重要費率的如何的計算基礎也很重要我舉一個例子在你們新增了這個準則八條之一之後呢你們說依據第五條公示中的每車公里什麼合理成本我就要提出一些一般人都在問的\n194255\t198636\t這個包括油料、燃料、輪胎、車輛折舊、修車、業務還有薪資我跟你講外送平台的外送員車是外送員的車對沒錯自動車\n216221\t232118\t維護的成本誰在負擔?外送員對 折舊的成本誰在負擔?外送員那薪資 抱歉 外送員接單不一嘛所以他薪資怎麼有一個合理的一個計算準則或者是有一個平均的準則\n234641\t255011\t我不知道你們是怎麼用這樣子所謂的合理成本因為這些每一點你都是這個外送平台的營業秘密或者是這些資料都在這個每一個外送員的身上而且每一個外送員他所擔的成本跟付出是不一樣的那請問一下你們的手上的資料到底哪裡來呢又何依據來做這一個運費的這個\n258803\t285564\t準則保護委員四輪的跟兩輪當然都不一樣是啊那四輪的當然車型也不一定都一樣都不一樣 外送也沒的 車型也不一樣那只能抓一個平均值當時四輪是這樣定那未來兩輪當然也是一樣同樣的準則就是說大家的摩托車價格不一定一樣但我們抓一個中間點或是一個平均值那輪胎大家用的品質也不一樣所以各種方式的計算在機車尤其是兩輪的部分我們要重新來計算\n286845\t311250\t我們現在第一步先確定說有要透明化這件事要透明化第二步就是來開始計算它的成本大概是在哪裡這個就是大家在問的嘛因為我跟你講各方的權益都要受保障那各方的權益都要受保障的時候我剛剛講的嘛你如果你訂了那個運費的基本的這個依據讓人家有問號的時候或者是你解釋不清楚的時候\n312630\t320838\t那當然大家就會有質疑嘛是不是所以才問大家現在連基本費基本費奠基在哪裡我剛剛講的那些細項啊那續承費、等待費、樓層費、夜間春節加成等等我覺得這個都要一頁的去說清楚而且要合理的告訴大家你是怎麼訂出來的\n331748\t358240\t委員您這樣說非常的正確啦齁其實我的目標是第一步先處理運費的透明化那至於剛剛在講的樓層費或等待費這些是由外送員工會他們提出來的但未來的討論我們是由五方來討論所以這些不一定會放進去那個是德啦可以討論但是不一定會放進去我知道但是雖然是德可以討論但是有一個德就有一個依據可以討論有這個可以討論未來就會形成這個要收費的標準嘛那\n358880\t378861\t要收費的合理我相信大家都可以接受那我們現在大部分的人是在於那個合理到底是什麼才叫做合理所以我覺得這個我們主管機關也必須要有責任來去擔起說除了透明化之後那個合理的運費到底是如何計算出來\n379561\t405503\t收費合理這是大家最關心的一件事而且這個收費合理包括剛剛很多委員提到的平台跟店家該怎麼收費是合理的那平台跟消費者該怎麼收費是合理的那外送員呢他的這個薪資從平台得到的薪資什麼是合理的這個就是兼顧小商家外送員跟消費者我們的初衷就是在這裡不是嗎部長\n406604\t429118\t沒錯嘛對不對那甚至我還關心到如果偏遠地區呢對不對偏遠地區那又該如何去計價呢那如何才叫做合理那第三個到時候的計價模式消費者然後外送員平台再加上地方政府加上地方政府也就是說每一個地區地方政府也會加入所以每個地區的計價方式可能會不一樣\n430117\t438582\t所以就因地制宜那偏鄉更要因地制宜嘛對不對第三點就關係到公平會理事會啦我上次在總諮詢就提出這個問題囉外送平台兩大外送平台要合併案到現在你給他11月8號之前要他補件那如果11月8號他還是不補件沒有補期權好你就沒有審\n451909\t471617\t沒有審呢那到時候呢等到了你們的人事權你明年1月要到任還有其他3個委員要到任總共就有4個委員要到任那到時候如果到明年1月之前他們補件還沒有完成沒有成案沒有成案沒有辦法審所以他就沒有合併可是他也有可能等到你們的人事\n473077\t498237\t這個人事的這個到任之後呢他在送件送件了之後呢沒有委員可以審那他會不會變相的就就地合併成功文件齊備以後才開始算審查期間那我們的委員目前編制是7位如果有請假或是缺位等等情形我們是依現有的現有的這個委員數來做現有的委員數如果是叫做\n499338\t501321\t相對的少數那這個審查有沒有合法這是一個大家的問題那最後我還必須要提醒你們希望大家多聽多方的意見這個交通部在訂定這個費率的時候不管是我要再強調店家、外送員跟消費者\n516658\t544158\t多方的意見我們都要傾聽而且要適時的雖然你們已經在預告了該調整就調整該因地制宜就因地制宜那主委我再講一次我堅決反對兩大外送平台合併壟斷台灣的市場這個對國人、對消費者、對外送員、對店家任何一方都是不利的、都是不好的所以主委請你一定要趕快趕快地放在心上\n545236\t550870\t很多人、大部分的人都反對兩大外送平台合併的好不好好 以上 謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝昭偉 我們請陳世凱部長跟這個陳部長還有公平會主委李主委\n主委好我再強調一次再公開表示一次我堅決反對兩大外送平台合併我在上次的總質詢裡面也跟卓榮泰卓院長也表示過那我必須說我一開始在上一次的交通委員會裡面我就要求我們交通部第一個\n也是我質詢讓大家知道說原來我們的外送業者是登記在交通部的這個所謂的汽車運輸業的客貨運這樣子的一個象象\n所以我們推動什麼推動外送平台訂費必須透明化所以剛剛陳世凱部長也講我們現在在訂這個規則是讓它透明化那透明化之後呢接下來我們就要要求什麼合理化保障各方權益之下的合理化那我覺得公平會主委你也不要一直說你們只是依法來行事我認為你應該勇於認識為什麼呢因為這個\n2012 FUPENTA 成立2016 Uber Eats 進軍臺灣這十幾年來都沒有人理欸就任由他在這個市場上他說要漲就漲他說要怎麼樣就怎麼樣那外送員的這個權益呢就任由平台的糟蹋\n任何問題都是平台說了算那消費者也只能被動的也只能無奈的承受他要漲就漲、要怎樣就怎樣所以運費十幾年來沒有人管理那現在交通部願意承擔要來管\n那我覺得各方的保障如何就定位就是一個最重要的議題囉就如同剛剛今天很多委員都提到這件事情接下來下一頁所以我現在就要問我們陳部長先問陳部長在我們交通部訂的這個規則裡面這個費率的規則裡面準則啦你們新增了八條之一嘛那我就要問喔\n我們外送平台現在外送是用兩輪的啦騎摩托車啦那過去你們這個汽車運輸業客貨運的運價準則呢是管四輪的啦那用兩輪的跟比照四輪的這個計算成本這個是怎麼來比較合理嗎欸我不知道這你要來適宜喔第二個我們雖然說他的運費\n透明很重要費率的如何的計算基礎也很重要我舉一個例子在你們新增了這個準則八條之一之後呢你們說依據第五條公示中的每車公里什麼合理成本我就要提出一些一般人都在問的\n這個包括油料、燃料、輪胎、車輛折舊、修車、業務還有薪資我跟你講外送平台的外送員車是外送員的車對沒錯自動車\n維護的成本誰在負擔?外送員對 折舊的成本誰在負擔?外送員那薪資 抱歉 外送員接單不一嘛所以他薪資怎麼有一個合理的一個計算準則或者是有一個平均的準則\n我不知道你們是怎麼用這樣子所謂的合理成本因為這些每一點你都是這個外送平台的營業秘密或者是這些資料都在這個每一個外送員的身上而且每一個外送員他所擔的成本跟付出是不一樣的那請問一下你們的手上的資料到底哪裡來呢又何依據來做這一個運費的這個\n準則保護委員四輪的跟兩輪當然都不一樣是啊那四輪的當然車型也不一定都一樣都不一樣 外送也沒的 車型也不一樣那只能抓一個平均值當時四輪是這樣定那未來兩輪當然也是一樣同樣的準則就是說大家的摩托車價格不一定一樣但我們抓一個中間點或是一個平均值那輪胎大家用的品質也不一樣所以各種方式的計算在機車尤其是兩輪的部分我們要重新來計算\n我們現在第一步先確定說有要透明化這件事要透明化第二步就是來開始計算它的成本大概是在哪裡這個就是大家在問的嘛因為我跟你講各方的權益都要受保障那各方的權益都要受保障的時候我剛剛講的嘛你如果你訂了那個運費的基本的這個依據讓人家有問號的時候或者是你解釋不清楚的時候\n那當然大家就會有質疑嘛是不是所以才問大家現在連基本費基本費奠基在哪裡我剛剛講的那些細項啊那續承費、等待費、樓層費、夜間春節加成等等我覺得這個都要一頁的去說清楚而且要合理的告訴大家你是怎麼訂出來的\n委員您這樣說非常的正確啦齁其實我的目標是第一步先處理運費的透明化那至於剛剛在講的樓層費或等待費這些是由外送員工會他們提出來的但未來的討論我們是由五方來討論所以這些不一定會放進去那個是德啦可以討論但是不一定會放進去我知道但是雖然是德可以討論但是有一個德就有一個依據可以討論有這個可以討論未來就會形成這個要收費的標準嘛那\n要收費的合理我相信大家都可以接受那我們現在大部分的人是在於那個合理到底是什麼才叫做合理所以我覺得這個我們主管機關也必須要有責任來去擔起說除了透明化之後那個合理的運費到底是如何計算出來\n收費合理這是大家最關心的一件事而且這個收費合理包括剛剛很多委員提到的平台跟店家該怎麼收費是合理的那平台跟消費者該怎麼收費是合理的那外送員呢他的這個薪資從平台得到的薪資什麼是合理的這個就是兼顧小商家外送員跟消費者我們的初衷就是在這裡不是嗎部長\n沒錯嘛對不對那甚至我還關心到如果偏遠地區呢對不對偏遠地區那又該如何去計價呢那如何才叫做合理那第三個到時候的計價模式消費者然後外送員平台再加上地方政府加上地方政府也就是說每一個地區地方政府也會加入所以每個地區的計價方式可能會不一樣\n所以就因地制宜那偏鄉更要因地制宜嘛對不對第三點就關係到公平會理事會啦我上次在總諮詢就提出這個問題囉外送平台兩大外送平台要合併案到現在你給他11月8號之前要他補件那如果11月8號他還是不補件沒有補期權好你就沒有審\n沒有審呢那到時候呢等到了你們的人事權你明年1月要到任還有其他3個委員要到任總共就有4個委員要到任那到時候如果到明年1月之前他們補件還沒有完成沒有成案沒有成案沒有辦法審所以他就沒有合併可是他也有可能等到你們的人事\n這個人事的這個到任之後呢他在送件送件了之後呢沒有委員可以審那他會不會變相的就就地合併成功文件齊備以後才開始算審查期間那我們的委員目前編制是7位如果有請假或是缺位等等情形我們是依現有的現有的這個委員數來做現有的委員數如果是叫做\n相對的少數那這個審查有沒有合法這是一個大家的問題那最後我還必須要提醒你們希望大家多聽多方的意見這個交通部在訂定這個費率的時候不管是我要再強調店家、外送員跟消費者\n多方的意見我們都要傾聽而且要適時的雖然你們已經在預告了該調整就調整該因地制宜就因地制宜那主委我再講一次我堅決反對兩大外送平台合併壟斷台灣的市場這個對國人、對消費者、對外送員、對店家任何一方都是不利的、都是不好的所以主委請你一定要趕快趕快地放在心上\n很多人、大部分的人都反對兩大外送平台合併的好不好好 以上 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.543 --> 00:08.449\n好謝謝昭偉我們請陳世凱部長跟這個陳部長還有公平會主委李主委\n\n00:14.265 --> 00:39.326\n主委好我再強調一次再公開表示一次我堅決反對兩大外送平台合併我在上次的總質詢裡面也跟卓榮泰卓院長也表示過那我必須說我一開始在上一次的交通委員會裡面我就要求我們交通部第一個\n\n00:40.578 --> 00:55.217\n也是我質詢讓大家知道說原來我們的外送業者是登記在交通部的這個所謂的汽車運輸業的客貨運這樣子的一個象象\n\n00:56.840 --> 01:20.016\n所以我們推動什麼推動外送平台訂費必須透明化所以剛剛陳世凱部長也講我們現在在訂這個規則是讓它透明化那透明化之後呢接下來我們就要要求什麼合理化保障各方權益之下的合理化那我覺得公平會主委你也不要一直說你們只是依法來行事我認為你應該勇於認識為什麼呢因為這個\n\n01:27.601 --> 01:43.171\n2012FUPENTA成立2016UberEats進軍臺灣這十幾年來都沒有人理欸就任由他在這個市場上他說要漲就漲他說要怎麼樣就怎麼樣那外送員的這個權益呢就任由平台的糟蹋\n\n01:44.679 --> 01:54.126\n任何問題都是平台說了算那消費者也只能被動的也只能無奈的承受他要漲就漲、要怎樣就怎樣所以運費十幾年來沒有人管理那現在交通部願意承擔要來管\n\n02:01.952 --> 02:15.941\n那我覺得各方的保障如何就定位就是一個最重要的議題囉就如同剛剛今天很多委員都提到這件事情接下來下一頁所以我現在就要問我們陳部長先問陳部長在我們交通部訂的這個規則裡面這個費率的規則裡面準則啦你們新增了八條之一嘛那我就要問喔\n\n02:27.827 --> 02:34.311\n我們外送平台現在外送是用兩輪的啦騎摩托車啦那過去你們這個汽車運輸業客貨運的運價準則呢是管四輪的啦那用兩輪的跟比照四輪的這個計算成本這個是怎麼來比較合理嗎欸我不知道這你要來適宜喔第二個我們雖然說他的運費\n\n02:53.402 --> 03:09.820\n透明很重要費率的如何的計算基礎也很重要我舉一個例子在你們新增了這個準則八條之一之後呢你們說依據第五條公示中的每車公里什麼合理成本我就要提出一些一般人都在問的\n\n03:14.255 --> 03:18.636\n這個包括油料、燃料、輪胎、車輛折舊、修車、業務還有薪資我跟你講外送平台的外送員車是外送員的車對沒錯自動車\n\n03:36.221 --> 03:52.118\n維護的成本誰在負擔?外送員對折舊的成本誰在負擔?外送員那薪資抱歉外送員接單不一嘛所以他薪資怎麼有一個合理的一個計算準則或者是有一個平均的準則\n\n03:54.641 --> 04:15.011\n我不知道你們是怎麼用這樣子所謂的合理成本因為這些每一點你都是這個外送平台的營業秘密或者是這些資料都在這個每一個外送員的身上而且每一個外送員他所擔的成本跟付出是不一樣的那請問一下你們的手上的資料到底哪裡來呢又何依據來做這一個運費的這個\n\n04:18.803 --> 04:45.564\n準則保護委員四輪的跟兩輪當然都不一樣是啊那四輪的當然車型也不一定都一樣都不一樣外送也沒的車型也不一樣那只能抓一個平均值當時四輪是這樣定那未來兩輪當然也是一樣同樣的準則就是說大家的摩托車價格不一定一樣但我們抓一個中間點或是一個平均值那輪胎大家用的品質也不一樣所以各種方式的計算在機車尤其是兩輪的部分我們要重新來計算\n\n04:46.845 --> 05:11.250\n我們現在第一步先確定說有要透明化這件事要透明化第二步就是來開始計算它的成本大概是在哪裡這個就是大家在問的嘛因為我跟你講各方的權益都要受保障那各方的權益都要受保障的時候我剛剛講的嘛你如果你訂了那個運費的基本的這個依據讓人家有問號的時候或者是你解釋不清楚的時候\n\n05:12.630 --> 05:20.838\n那當然大家就會有質疑嘛是不是所以才問大家現在連基本費基本費奠基在哪裡我剛剛講的那些細項啊那續承費、等待費、樓層費、夜間春節加成等等我覺得這個都要一頁的去說清楚而且要合理的告訴大家你是怎麼訂出來的\n\n05:31.748 --> 05:58.240\n委員您這樣說非常的正確啦齁其實我的目標是第一步先處理運費的透明化那至於剛剛在講的樓層費或等待費這些是由外送員工會他們提出來的但未來的討論我們是由五方來討論所以這些不一定會放進去那個是德啦可以討論但是不一定會放進去我知道但是雖然是德可以討論但是有一個德就有一個依據可以討論有這個可以討論未來就會形成這個要收費的標準嘛那\n\n05:58.880 --> 06:18.861\n要收費的合理我相信大家都可以接受那我們現在大部分的人是在於那個合理到底是什麼才叫做合理所以我覺得這個我們主管機關也必須要有責任來去擔起說除了透明化之後那個合理的運費到底是如何計算出來\n\n06:19.561 --> 06:45.503\n收費合理這是大家最關心的一件事而且這個收費合理包括剛剛很多委員提到的平台跟店家該怎麼收費是合理的那平台跟消費者該怎麼收費是合理的那外送員呢他的這個薪資從平台得到的薪資什麼是合理的這個就是兼顧小商家外送員跟消費者我們的初衷就是在這裡不是嗎部長\n\n06:46.604 --> 07:09.118\n沒錯嘛對不對那甚至我還關心到如果偏遠地區呢對不對偏遠地區那又該如何去計價呢那如何才叫做合理那第三個到時候的計價模式消費者然後外送員平台再加上地方政府加上地方政府也就是說每一個地區地方政府也會加入所以每個地區的計價方式可能會不一樣\n\n07:10.117 --> 07:18.582\n所以就因地制宜那偏鄉更要因地制宜嘛對不對第三點就關係到公平會理事會啦我上次在總諮詢就提出這個問題囉外送平台兩大外送平台要合併案到現在你給他11月8號之前要他補件那如果11月8號他還是不補件沒有補期權好你就沒有審\n\n07:31.909 --> 07:51.617\n沒有審呢那到時候呢等到了你們的人事權你明年1月要到任還有其他3個委員要到任總共就有4個委員要到任那到時候如果到明年1月之前他們補件還沒有完成沒有成案沒有成案沒有辦法審所以他就沒有合併可是他也有可能等到你們的人事\n\n07:53.077 --> 08:18.237\n這個人事的這個到任之後呢他在送件送件了之後呢沒有委員可以審那他會不會變相的就就地合併成功文件齊備以後才開始算審查期間那我們的委員目前編制是7位如果有請假或是缺位等等情形我們是依現有的現有的這個委員數來做現有的委員數如果是叫做\n\n08:19.338 --> 08:21.321\n相對的少數那這個審查有沒有合法這是一個大家的問題那最後我還必須要提醒你們希望大家多聽多方的意見這個交通部在訂定這個費率的時候不管是我要再強調店家、外送員跟消費者\n\n08:36.658 --> 09:04.158\n多方的意見我們都要傾聽而且要適時的雖然你們已經在預告了該調整就調整該因地制宜就因地制宜那主委我再講一次我堅決反對兩大外送平台合併壟斷台灣的市場這個對國人、對消費者、對外送員、對店家任何一方都是不利的、都是不好的所以主委請你一定要趕快趕快地放在心上\n\n09:05.236 --> 09:10.870\n很多人、大部分的人都反對兩大外送平台合併的好不好好以上謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.543,"end":8.449,"text":"好 謝謝昭偉 我們請陳世凱部長跟這個陳部長還有公平會主委李主委"},{"start":14.265,"end":39.326,"text":"主委好我再強調一次再公開表示一次我堅決反對兩大外送平台合併我在上次的總質詢裡面也跟卓榮泰卓院長也表示過那我必須說我一開始在上一次的交通委員會裡面我就要求我們交通部第一個"},{"start":40.578,"end":55.217,"text":"也是我質詢讓大家知道說原來我們的外送業者是登記在交通部的這個所謂的汽車運輸業的客貨運這樣子的一個象象"},{"start":56.84,"end":80.016,"text":"所以我們推動什麼推動外送平台訂費必須透明化所以剛剛陳世凱部長也講我們現在在訂這個規則是讓它透明化那透明化之後呢接下來我們就要要求什麼合理化保障各方權益之下的合理化那我覺得公平會主委你也不要一直說你們只是依法來行事我認為你應該勇於認識為什麼呢因為這個"},{"start":87.601,"end":103.171,"text":"2012 FUPENTA 成立2016 Uber Eats 進軍臺灣這十幾年來都沒有人理欸就任由他在這個市場上他說要漲就漲他說要怎麼樣就怎麼樣那外送員的這個權益呢就任由平台的糟蹋"},{"start":104.679,"end":114.126,"text":"任何問題都是平台說了算那消費者也只能被動的也只能無奈的承受他要漲就漲、要怎樣就怎樣所以運費十幾年來沒有人管理那現在交通部願意承擔要來管"},{"start":121.952,"end":135.941,"text":"那我覺得各方的保障如何就定位就是一個最重要的議題囉就如同剛剛今天很多委員都提到這件事情接下來下一頁所以我現在就要問我們陳部長先問陳部長在我們交通部訂的這個規則裡面這個費率的規則裡面準則啦你們新增了八條之一嘛那我就要問喔"},{"start":147.827,"end":154.311,"text":"我們外送平台現在外送是用兩輪的啦騎摩托車啦那過去你們這個汽車運輸業客貨運的運價準則呢是管四輪的啦那用兩輪的跟比照四輪的這個計算成本這個是怎麼來比較合理嗎欸我不知道這你要來適宜喔第二個我們雖然說他的運費"},{"start":173.402,"end":189.82,"text":"透明很重要費率的如何的計算基礎也很重要我舉一個例子在你們新增了這個準則八條之一之後呢你們說依據第五條公示中的每車公里什麼合理成本我就要提出一些一般人都在問的"},{"start":194.255,"end":198.636,"text":"這個包括油料、燃料、輪胎、車輛折舊、修車、業務還有薪資我跟你講外送平台的外送員車是外送員的車對沒錯自動車"},{"start":216.221,"end":232.118,"text":"維護的成本誰在負擔?外送員對 折舊的成本誰在負擔?外送員那薪資 抱歉 外送員接單不一嘛所以他薪資怎麼有一個合理的一個計算準則或者是有一個平均的準則"},{"start":234.641,"end":255.011,"text":"我不知道你們是怎麼用這樣子所謂的合理成本因為這些每一點你都是這個外送平台的營業秘密或者是這些資料都在這個每一個外送員的身上而且每一個外送員他所擔的成本跟付出是不一樣的那請問一下你們的手上的資料到底哪裡來呢又何依據來做這一個運費的這個"},{"start":258.803,"end":285.564,"text":"準則保護委員四輪的跟兩輪當然都不一樣是啊那四輪的當然車型也不一定都一樣都不一樣 外送也沒的 車型也不一樣那只能抓一個平均值當時四輪是這樣定那未來兩輪當然也是一樣同樣的準則就是說大家的摩托車價格不一定一樣但我們抓一個中間點或是一個平均值那輪胎大家用的品質也不一樣所以各種方式的計算在機車尤其是兩輪的部分我們要重新來計算"},{"start":286.845,"end":311.25,"text":"我們現在第一步先確定說有要透明化這件事要透明化第二步就是來開始計算它的成本大概是在哪裡這個就是大家在問的嘛因為我跟你講各方的權益都要受保障那各方的權益都要受保障的時候我剛剛講的嘛你如果你訂了那個運費的基本的這個依據讓人家有問號的時候或者是你解釋不清楚的時候"},{"start":312.63,"end":320.838,"text":"那當然大家就會有質疑嘛是不是所以才問大家現在連基本費基本費奠基在哪裡我剛剛講的那些細項啊那續承費、等待費、樓層費、夜間春節加成等等我覺得這個都要一頁的去說清楚而且要合理的告訴大家你是怎麼訂出來的"},{"start":331.748,"end":358.24,"text":"委員您這樣說非常的正確啦齁其實我的目標是第一步先處理運費的透明化那至於剛剛在講的樓層費或等待費這些是由外送員工會他們提出來的但未來的討論我們是由五方來討論所以這些不一定會放進去那個是德啦可以討論但是不一定會放進去我知道但是雖然是德可以討論但是有一個德就有一個依據可以討論有這個可以討論未來就會形成這個要收費的標準嘛那"},{"start":358.88,"end":378.861,"text":"要收費的合理我相信大家都可以接受那我們現在大部分的人是在於那個合理到底是什麼才叫做合理所以我覺得這個我們主管機關也必須要有責任來去擔起說除了透明化之後那個合理的運費到底是如何計算出來"},{"start":379.561,"end":405.503,"text":"收費合理這是大家最關心的一件事而且這個收費合理包括剛剛很多委員提到的平台跟店家該怎麼收費是合理的那平台跟消費者該怎麼收費是合理的那外送員呢他的這個薪資從平台得到的薪資什麼是合理的這個就是兼顧小商家外送員跟消費者我們的初衷就是在這裡不是嗎部長"},{"start":406.604,"end":429.118,"text":"沒錯嘛對不對那甚至我還關心到如果偏遠地區呢對不對偏遠地區那又該如何去計價呢那如何才叫做合理那第三個到時候的計價模式消費者然後外送員平台再加上地方政府加上地方政府也就是說每一個地區地方政府也會加入所以每個地區的計價方式可能會不一樣"},{"start":430.117,"end":438.582,"text":"所以就因地制宜那偏鄉更要因地制宜嘛對不對第三點就關係到公平會理事會啦我上次在總諮詢就提出這個問題囉外送平台兩大外送平台要合併案到現在你給他11月8號之前要他補件那如果11月8號他還是不補件沒有補期權好你就沒有審"},{"start":451.909,"end":471.617,"text":"沒有審呢那到時候呢等到了你們的人事權你明年1月要到任還有其他3個委員要到任總共就有4個委員要到任那到時候如果到明年1月之前他們補件還沒有完成沒有成案沒有成案沒有辦法審所以他就沒有合併可是他也有可能等到你們的人事"},{"start":473.077,"end":498.237,"text":"這個人事的這個到任之後呢他在送件送件了之後呢沒有委員可以審那他會不會變相的就就地合併成功文件齊備以後才開始算審查期間那我們的委員目前編制是7位如果有請假或是缺位等等情形我們是依現有的現有的這個委員數來做現有的委員數如果是叫做"},{"start":499.338,"end":501.321,"text":"相對的少數那這個審查有沒有合法這是一個大家的問題那最後我還必須要提醒你們希望大家多聽多方的意見這個交通部在訂定這個費率的時候不管是我要再強調店家、外送員跟消費者"},{"start":516.658,"end":544.158,"text":"多方的意見我們都要傾聽而且要適時的雖然你們已經在預告了該調整就調整該因地制宜就因地制宜那主委我再講一次我堅決反對兩大外送平台合併壟斷台灣的市場這個對國人、對消費者、對外送員、對店家任何一方都是不利的、都是不好的所以主委請你一定要趕快趕快地放在心上"},{"start":545.236,"end":550.87,"text":"很多人、大部分的人都反對兩大外送平台合併的好不好好 以上 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1069,"blocks":[["何委員欣純：（13時33分）好，謝謝召委，我們請陳世凱部長還有公平會主委李鎂。"],["主席：陳部長、李主委。"],["何委員欣純：部長好、主委好。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["何委員欣純：我再強調一次，再公開表示一次，我堅決反對兩大外送平台合併，我在上次的總質詢裡面也跟卓榮泰卓院長表示過，我必須說，我一開始在上一次的交通委員會裡面，我就要求我們交通部，第一個，也是我質詢，讓大家知道說原來我們的外送業者是登記在交通部所謂的汽車運輸業的客貨運項下，所以我們推動什麼？推動外送平台運費必須透明化，所以剛剛陳世凱部長也講，我們現在在定這個規則是讓它透明化，透明化之後，接下來我們就要要求什麼？合理化，保障各方權益之下的合理化。我覺得公平會主委你也不要一直說你們只是依法來行事，我認為你該勇於任事，為什麼呢？因為2012 foodpanda成立，2016 Uber 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