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00:00:29,279\n這兩個我想今天有點時間但是國發會、農業部、交通部都是我在這個今天這個議題重視在和產業發展促進法裡面會關注的一些焦點所以謝謝張偉今天有這樣一個議題首先這個勞動部長您比較辛苦因為現在的這個職司大概跟勞動部跟衛福部感覺上在這個區塊佔的比例非常大所以您今天一整天在\n\n3\n00:00:50,746 --> 00:00:53,747\n賴慎祥委員提出一個類比在法規上的類比跟一個世界趨勢的進步其實我覺得他這個想法非常的好但是您在回答他是從這個殘障福利法\n\n4\n00:01:13,191 --> 00:01:13,652\n臺灣第一臺灣不因令風潮\n\n5\n00:01:33,453 --> 00:01:33,773\n﹚林倩綺\n\n6\n00:01:57,881 --> 00:02:22,308\n國發會這邊在討論就業市場還有這個整個國家發展等等的缺工的這個問題所以其實這整個東西其實應該一起來思考那壯世代提供這樣一個突破瓶頸的概念所以這是為什麼我們在這邊討論的所以在衛福的這個部分我來跟衛福部請益一下你有沒有覺得在過往的這個思維跟你們目前的整個政策狀態應該對於所謂的\n\n7\n00:02:26,004 --> 00:02:47,465\n您們現在有的年齡的所謂高齡的社會您們應該做的都是一種照顧的概念那我想壯世代提出來的是一種發展的概念也就是我想各位光是在座我們壯世代的比例應該佔的很高percentage一定一半以上吧我們每個人都是壯世代的人不管你們同不同意我們大概\n\n8\n00:03:11,685 --> 00:03:12,586\n在2014年已經有一個活力自立生活計劃\n\n9\n00:03:29,342 --> 00:03:45,097\n在日本201616已經啟動了社會5.0那他也不一定是照護那這個思維就是說很重要就是發展那很多我們這個年紀的人還沒有到一定被你們照顧的階段好不好所以這是一個思維上的調整跟改變\n\n10\n00:03:46,138 --> 00:03:47,458\n接下來文化部不好意思你們今天\n\n11\n00:04:10,866 --> 00:04:37,868\n我們中間是司長文化部本席其實在上個會期已經建議你們將壯世代納入文化幣的發放對象但是你們也目前經費裡面沒有看到當然你們會有很多的想法但是我這邊提醒你們如果有機會把壯世代放進去它其實是可以對文化市場創造乘數效果它跟對於你們目前在年齡的這個區塊\n\n12\n00:04:39,589 --> 00:05:01,927\n獲得的補助其實是不一樣的概念最後教育部教育部不好意思我要跟你們講那個列寧大學我們這個世代的人都被你們當成是這個什麼終身教育但是不要用這句話騙我們你們終身教育所目前的總經費大概只有36.15億喔那在你整體的教育經費裡面1.98%\n\n13\n00:05:04,787 --> 00:05:12,349\n那整個我們不要講壯世代光是高齡的人口你覺得這個比例跟現在國發會算出來的比例平衡嗎?\n\n14\n00:05:13,835 --> 00:05:37,724\n這個回去要跟部裡面反映今天你們次長是在另外一個委員會然後派這個終身教育這從這個派的成績你不覺得好像對於壯世代難道我們真的沒有歧視嗎?對於高齡人口我們真的沒有歧視嗎?我想壯世代這樣一個法令的定定其實是想要告訴我們社會的實際現象是什麼?我們心裡沒有看到的自我現象是什麼?\n\n15\n00:05:38,544 --> 00:05:44,594\n所以我很期待這樣一個法令當然能夠用正面的思維去看待他我相信他能夠解決很多社會的問題謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1924\t2364\t教育部、文化部\n22877\t29279\t這兩個我想今天有點時間但是國發會、農業部、交通部都是我在這個今天這個議題重視在和產業發展促進法裡面會關注的一些焦點所以謝謝張偉今天有這樣一個議題首先這個勞動部長您比較辛苦因為現在的這個職司大概跟勞動部跟衛福部感覺上在這個區塊佔的比例非常大所以您今天一整天在\n50746\t53747\t賴慎祥委員提出一個類比在法規上的類比跟一個世界趨勢的進步其實我覺得他這個想法非常的好但是您在回答他是從這個殘障福利法\n73191\t73652\t臺灣第一臺灣不因令風潮\n93453\t93773\t﹚林倩綺\n117881\t142308\t國發會這邊在討論就業市場還有這個整個國家發展等等的缺工的這個問題所以其實這整個東西其實應該一起來思考那壯世代提供這樣一個突破瓶頸的概念所以這是為什麼我們在這邊討論的所以在衛福的這個部分我來跟衛福部請益一下你有沒有覺得在過往的這個思維跟你們目前的整個政策狀態應該對於所謂的\n146004\t167465\t您們現在有的年齡的所謂高齡的社會您們應該做的都是一種照顧的概念那我想壯世代提出來的是一種發展的概念也就是我想各位光是在座我們壯世代的比例應該佔的很高percentage一定一半以上吧我們每個人都是壯世代的人不管你們同不同意我們大概\n168166\t191305\t⋯⋯⋯⋯\n191685\t192586\t在2014年已經有一個活力自立生活計劃\n209342\t225097\t在日本201616已經啟動了社會5.0那他也不一定是照護那這個思維就是說很重要就是發展那很多我們這個年紀的人還沒有到一定被你們照顧的階段好不好所以這是一個思維上的調整跟改變\n226138\t227458\t接下來文化部不好意思你們今天\n250866\t277868\t我們中間是司長文化部本席其實在上個會期已經建議你們將壯世代納入文化幣的發放對象但是你們也目前經費裡面沒有看到當然你們會有很多的想法但是我這邊提醒你們如果有機會把壯世代放進去它其實是可以對文化市場創造乘數效果它跟對於你們目前在年齡的這個區塊\n279589\t301927\t獲得的補助其實是不一樣的概念最後 教育部教育部不好意思我要跟你們講那個列寧大學我們這個世代的人都被你們當成是這個什麼終身教育但是不要用這句話騙我們你們終身教育所目前的總經費大概只有36.15億喔那在你整體的教育經費裡面1.98%\n304787\t312349\t那整個我們不要講壯世代光是高齡的人口你覺得這個比例跟現在國發會算出來的比例平衡嗎?\n313835\t337724\t這個回去要跟部裡面反映今天你們次長是在另外一個委員會然後派這個終身教育這從這個派的成績你不覺得好像對於壯世代難道我們真的沒有歧視嗎?對於高齡人口我們真的沒有歧視嗎?我想壯世代這樣一個法令的定定其實是想要告訴我們社會的實際現象是什麼?我們心裡沒有看到的自我現象是什麼?\n338544\t344594\t所以我很期待這樣一個法令當然能夠用正面的思維去看待他我相信他能夠解決很多社會的問題謝謝\n","txt":"教育部、文化部\n這兩個我想今天有點時間但是國發會、農業部、交通部都是我在這個今天這個議題重視在和產業發展促進法裡面會關注的一些焦點所以謝謝張偉今天有這樣一個議題首先這個勞動部長您比較辛苦因為現在的這個職司大概跟勞動部跟衛福部感覺上在這個區塊佔的比例非常大所以您今天一整天在\n賴慎祥委員提出一個類比在法規上的類比跟一個世界趨勢的進步其實我覺得他這個想法非常的好但是您在回答他是從這個殘障福利法\n臺灣第一臺灣不因令風潮\n﹚林倩綺\n國發會這邊在討論就業市場還有這個整個國家發展等等的缺工的這個問題所以其實這整個東西其實應該一起來思考那壯世代提供這樣一個突破瓶頸的概念所以這是為什麼我們在這邊討論的所以在衛福的這個部分我來跟衛福部請益一下你有沒有覺得在過往的這個思維跟你們目前的整個政策狀態應該對於所謂的\n您們現在有的年齡的所謂高齡的社會您們應該做的都是一種照顧的概念那我想壯世代提出來的是一種發展的概念也就是我想各位光是在座我們壯世代的比例應該佔的很高percentage一定一半以上吧我們每個人都是壯世代的人不管你們同不同意我們大概\n⋯⋯⋯⋯\n在2014年已經有一個活力自立生活計劃\n在日本201616已經啟動了社會5.0那他也不一定是照護那這個思維就是說很重要就是發展那很多我們這個年紀的人還沒有到一定被你們照顧的階段好不好所以這是一個思維上的調整跟改變\n接下來文化部不好意思你們今天\n我們中間是司長文化部本席其實在上個會期已經建議你們將壯世代納入文化幣的發放對象但是你們也目前經費裡面沒有看到當然你們會有很多的想法但是我這邊提醒你們如果有機會把壯世代放進去它其實是可以對文化市場創造乘數效果它跟對於你們目前在年齡的這個區塊\n獲得的補助其實是不一樣的概念最後 教育部教育部不好意思我要跟你們講那個列寧大學我們這個世代的人都被你們當成是這個什麼終身教育但是不要用這句話騙我們你們終身教育所目前的總經費大概只有36.15億喔那在你整體的教育經費裡面1.98%\n那整個我們不要講壯世代光是高齡的人口你覺得這個比例跟現在國發會算出來的比例平衡嗎?\n這個回去要跟部裡面反映今天你們次長是在另外一個委員會然後派這個終身教育這從這個派的成績你不覺得好像對於壯世代難道我們真的沒有歧視嗎?對於高齡人口我們真的沒有歧視嗎?我想壯世代這樣一個法令的定定其實是想要告訴我們社會的實際現象是什麼?我們心裡沒有看到的自我現象是什麼?\n所以我很期待這樣一個法令當然能夠用正面的思維去看待他我相信他能夠解決很多社會的問題謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.924 --> 00:02.364\n教育部、文化部\n\n00:22.877 --> 00:29.279\n這兩個我想今天有點時間但是國發會、農業部、交通部都是我在這個今天這個議題重視在和產業發展促進法裡面會關注的一些焦點所以謝謝張偉今天有這樣一個議題首先這個勞動部長您比較辛苦因為現在的這個職司大概跟勞動部跟衛福部感覺上在這個區塊佔的比例非常大所以您今天一整天在\n\n00:50.746 --> 00:53.747\n賴慎祥委員提出一個類比在法規上的類比跟一個世界趨勢的進步其實我覺得他這個想法非常的好但是您在回答他是從這個殘障福利法\n\n01:13.191 --> 01:13.652\n臺灣第一臺灣不因令風潮\n\n01:33.453 --> 01:33.773\n﹚林倩綺\n\n01:57.881 --> 02:22.308\n國發會這邊在討論就業市場還有這個整個國家發展等等的缺工的這個問題所以其實這整個東西其實應該一起來思考那壯世代提供這樣一個突破瓶頸的概念所以這是為什麼我們在這邊討論的所以在衛福的這個部分我來跟衛福部請益一下你有沒有覺得在過往的這個思維跟你們目前的整個政策狀態應該對於所謂的\n\n02:26.004 --> 02:47.465\n您們現在有的年齡的所謂高齡的社會您們應該做的都是一種照顧的概念那我想壯世代提出來的是一種發展的概念也就是我想各位光是在座我們壯世代的比例應該佔的很高percentage一定一半以上吧我們每個人都是壯世代的人不管你們同不同意我們大概\n\n03:11.685 --> 03:12.586\n在2014年已經有一個活力自立生活計劃\n\n03:29.342 --> 03:45.097\n在日本201616已經啟動了社會5.0那他也不一定是照護那這個思維就是說很重要就是發展那很多我們這個年紀的人還沒有到一定被你們照顧的階段好不好所以這是一個思維上的調整跟改變\n\n03:46.138 --> 03:47.458\n接下來文化部不好意思你們今天\n\n04:10.866 --> 04:37.868\n我們中間是司長文化部本席其實在上個會期已經建議你們將壯世代納入文化幣的發放對象但是你們也目前經費裡面沒有看到當然你們會有很多的想法但是我這邊提醒你們如果有機會把壯世代放進去它其實是可以對文化市場創造乘數效果它跟對於你們目前在年齡的這個區塊\n\n04:39.589 --> 05:01.927\n獲得的補助其實是不一樣的概念最後教育部教育部不好意思我要跟你們講那個列寧大學我們這個世代的人都被你們當成是這個什麼終身教育但是不要用這句話騙我們你們終身教育所目前的總經費大概只有36.15億喔那在你整體的教育經費裡面1.98%\n\n05:04.787 --> 05:12.349\n那整個我們不要講壯世代光是高齡的人口你覺得這個比例跟現在國發會算出來的比例平衡嗎?\n\n05:13.835 --> 05:37.724\n這個回去要跟部裡面反映今天你們次長是在另外一個委員會然後派這個終身教育這從這個派的成績你不覺得好像對於壯世代難道我們真的沒有歧視嗎?對於高齡人口我們真的沒有歧視嗎?我想壯世代這樣一個法令的定定其實是想要告訴我們社會的實際現象是什麼?我們心裡沒有看到的自我現象是什麼?\n\n05:38.544 --> 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教育部教育部不好意思我要跟你們講那個列寧大學我們這個世代的人都被你們當成是這個什麼終身教育但是不要用這句話騙我們你們終身教育所目前的總經費大概只有36.15億喔那在你整體的教育經費裡面1.98%"},{"start":304.787,"end":312.349,"text":"那整個我們不要講壯世代光是高齡的人口你覺得這個比例跟現在國發會算出來的比例平衡嗎?"},{"start":313.835,"end":337.724,"text":"這個回去要跟部裡面反映今天你們次長是在另外一個委員會然後派這個終身教育這從這個派的成績你不覺得好像對於壯世代難道我們真的沒有歧視嗎?對於高齡人口我們真的沒有歧視嗎?我想壯世代這樣一個法令的定定其實是想要告訴我們社會的實際現象是什麼?我們心裡沒有看到的自我現象是什麼?"},{"start":338.544,"end":344.594,"text":"所以我很期待這樣一個法令當然能夠用正面的思維去看待他我相信他能夠解決很多社會的問題謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1175,"blocks":[["林委員倩綺：（13時40分）謝謝召委、立院同仁，還有行政單位的相關夥伴們，大家好。我先請勞動部部長、衛福部次長，當然每個部會我都有相關的議題想要討論，但先請教育部、文化部，這兩個我想今天有一點時間，國發會、農業部、交通部都是我在今天這個議題──壯世代政策與產業發展促進法裡面會關注的一些焦點，所以謝謝召委今天安排這樣一個議題。","首先，勞動部長，你比較辛苦，因為現在的職司大概跟勞動部、衛福部感覺上在這個區塊占的比例非常大，所以您今天一整天跟很多委員的詢答上，我這邊有一些想法來跟您做一些討論，其實每個單位都一樣。"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["林委員倩綺：我記得廖先翔委員在早上提出一個在法規上的類比跟世界趨勢的進步，其實我覺得他這個想法非常好，但是您回答他是從殘障福利法，世界趨勢有這樣一個名詞來做回應，那我覺得思維上可以再調整一下，這就是為什麼我們今天在這邊討論所謂壯世代這樣一個目前聽起來是新概念，而且我們要繼續往這個方向走的原因。所以我們不是常常說Taiwan can help，臺灣第一，那我們為什麼不引領風潮？當然我們知道執行面有很多需要解決，但是如果我們出現了這樣一個壯世代，而且不僅是因地制宜，也可能引領世界的風潮，所以我覺得這個思維大家可以這樣子想一下。還有委員也有提醒，洪孟楷委員說今天我們在討論的，這邊在討論壯世代，其他地方在討論少子化，然後還有國發會也在討論就業市場，以及整個國家發展等等的缺工問題，這整個其實應該一起來思考，那壯世代提供這樣一個突破瓶頸的概念，這也是為什麼我們要來這邊討論。","所以在衛福的部分，我來跟衛福部請益一下，你有沒有覺得在過往的思維跟你們目前整個政策狀態，應該對於你們現在所謂高齡社會，應該做的都是一種照顧的概念，那我想壯世代提出來的是一種發展的概念，也就是我想各位光是在座壯世代的比例應該占很高的比例，一定一半以上吧！我們每個人都是壯世代的人，不管你們同不同意，我們大概可能在這個上下，雖然也有一些質詢的委員說，他還不知道怎麼定義，所以我們每個人都身歷其間，它也是一個正在發生的事實。在國發會的報告上，我想早上很多人提過了，比例上這是一個不爭的事實，而且我們的高齡社會又提早來到，那2070年又更離譜了，會到幾乎一半以上，一個人要養一個人，所以我們如果不在這個時候趕快做因應，那等到我們看到這個情形基本上都已經來不及了。所以衛福部這邊，歐盟在2014年已經有一個活力自立生活計畫，日本在2016年已經啟動了社會5.0，它也不一定是照護，這個思維很重要就是發展，很多我們這個年紀的人還沒有到一定被你們照顧的階段，好不好？所以這是一個思維上的調整跟改變。"],["呂次長建德：是，沒錯。"],["林委員倩綺：今天很多單位提的其實是同樣一件事情，如果朝這樣一個方向走，問題可能可以解決不少，那法規應該跟著我們的生活面，而不是被法規來限制了我們的生活，好，謝謝，我這邊提供大家一點參考。","接下來文化部，不好意思，你們今天是綜規司司長，本席其實在上個會期已經建議你們將壯世代納入文化幣的發放對象，但是你們目前經費裡面沒有編、沒有看到，當然你們會有很多的想法，但是我在這邊提醒你們，如果有機會把壯世代放進去，其實是可以對文化市場創造乘數效果，這跟你們目前在年齡這個區塊的補助其實是不一樣的概念。","最後，教育部，教育部不好意思，我要跟你們講，樂齡大學，我們這個世代的人都被你們當成是什麼終身教育，不要用這句話騙我們，你們終身教育目前的總經費大概只有36.15億，占整體教育經費1.98%，我們不要講壯世代，光是高齡人口，你覺得這個比例跟現在國發會算出來的比例平衡嗎？這個回去要跟部裡面反應，今天你們次長是在另外一個委員會，然後派終身教育司司長，從派的層級來看，對於壯世代，難道我們真的沒有歧視嗎？對於高齡人口，我們真的沒有歧視嗎？我想壯世代這樣的法令訂定，其實是想要告訴我們社會的實際現象是什麼，我們心裡沒有看到的自我現象是什麼，所以我很期待這樣的法令，大家能夠用正面的思維去看待它，我相信它能夠解決很多社會問題。謝謝。"],["梁司長學政：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林委員。","接續我們請林國成委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":160,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-26,19-1","speakers":["蘇清泉","黃秀芳","邱議瑩","林月琴","王正旭","林淑芬","吳春城","陳昭姿","陳亭妃","鄭正鈐","廖偉翔","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","賴瑞隆","翁曉玲","劉建國","吳宗憲","洪孟楷","黃珊珊","林倩綺","林國成","涂權吉","蔡易餘","羅廷瑋","麥玉珍","楊曜","盧縣一","張嘉郡","陳超明","林憶君","邱志偉","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":63,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1139001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查委員吳春城等42人擬具「壯世代政策與產業發展促進法草案」案","agenda_id":"1139001_00002"}}}