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\"爭\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 284.145, \"end\": 284.165, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 284.165, \"end\": 284.185, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"訴\"}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 284.185, \"end\": 284.265, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"韓\"}, {\"word\": \"港\", \"start\": 284.265, \"end\": 284.385, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 284.385, \"end\": 284.405, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 284.405, \"end\": 284.525, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 284.525, \"end\": 284.625, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"覆\", \"start\": 284.625, \"end\": 284.645, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 284.645, \"end\": 284.705, \"score\": 0.645}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"傳\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 284.705, \"end\": 284.725, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 284.725, \"end\": 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00:01:35,867\n所以他這邊有講嘛僱傭關係的存續期間那這個認定還有就是我們工作場所縣市政府勞工行政機關申請調處的意思也就是說那照我們勞保局講這個契約的性質它為定期或不定期應該是勞政主管機關的責任對不對\n\n5\n00:01:39,902 --> 00:02:05,021\n各位委員報告,我們這邊主要是依勞資爭議處理法裡面,針對勞資雙方如果有爭議,他們依循的法令不見得是勞動基準法,就是在勞資之間有爭議的話都可以依照基準來處理。所以依我們勞保局我們第4點講嘛,就是雇佣關係的存續,這部分勞工行政機關來申請調處嘛,所以這部分是勞動主管機關來負責處理嘛。\n\n6\n00:02:07,708 --> 00:02:29,086\n你就針對第4點嘛對不對你的意思是不是這樣如果他要勞資正義調解可以找地方政府對啊就是有勞政主管機關那中央是勞動部嘛地方就是縣市政府嘛對不對沒有錯吧對沒關係你就針對你的回答就好你不要緊張好那我再請問一下我們勞動關係師黃副司長那針對我們\n\n7\n00:02:35,962 --> 00:02:43,848\n韓港局我們有發文韓巡就是有關勞動契約的爭議,勞動契約爭議應該是我們勞動關係司在負責的業管單位嗎?勞動契約章是我們勞動關係司\n\n8\n00:02:51,582 --> 00:03:11,935\n對,那我想請問一下副司長針對在航港局的回覆我們來討論一下你看有沒有什麼錯誤或者你覺得他這公文回覆有什麼問題的地方然後針對這公文我們把它陳述出來就是針對傳言法是否明定\n\n9\n00:03:13,089 --> 00:03:38,107\n明文定義傳言法中何為定期契約、不定期契約那韓港局針對我們這問題他的回覆是說經查傳言法及相關執法並無定義定期契約或不定期契約也就是說傳言法他不管是本身他傳言法或相關執法並沒有明確的定義嘛這一部分他的回覆是這樣\n\n10\n00:03:43,193 --> 00:03:53,807\n第二點,我們傳言法的僱傭契約中定期契約不定期契約的定義,載明中華民國哪一部法律中\n\n11\n00:03:54,548 --> 00:04:09,112\n那業管的機關部會單位為何?那行管局的回覆是載於勞基法的第9條主管機關在中央為勞動部在直轄市為縣市政府\n\n12\n00:04:12,353 --> 00:04:33,838\n所以這部分跟剛剛我們勞保局的回覆也是一樣所以針對我們傳援法的僱傭契約他就說在中華民國法律就是勞基法第9條也就是說主管機關在中央的勞動部在地方的就是縣市政府在航港局的回覆沒關係如果你覺得航港局會有問題你也可以提出\n\n13\n00:04:34,838 --> 00:04:46,526\n然後第3點傳言法中受僱用之傳言針對其僱傭契約實質為定期契約不定期契約有相關爭議時就計投訴機關為何韓港局的回覆是說傳言對於僱傭契約之契約形式如有爭議勞資雙方可透過勞動主管機關進行協調或透過民事訴訟\n\n14\n00:05:01,997 --> 00:05:07,918\n也就是說在中央他可以透過勞動部在地方可以透過縣市政府因為這剛剛已經講過嘛那針對這部分韓港局的回覆我們副市長你覺得他回覆有沒有問題謝謝委員因為我們其實此時此刻我們也針對剛剛委員關心的議題我們正請交通部我們正式請交通部那個函付給我們那我們兩個部會之間會針對這樣的一個議題進行討論可是他已經函付了嘛\n\n15\n00:05:31,804 --> 00:05:49,057\n拜見韓副主管機關就是中央就是勞動部啊一方就是縣市政府我只要正確說目前是不是這樣以後你們要怎麼協調是你以後的事你現在就是這樣子嘛對不對現在的法令就是這樣嘛韓港局的回覆就是這樣啊因為這是韓港局委員這邊提到韓港局這邊提的\n\n16\n00:05:51,459 --> 00:06:06,408\n因為我們這邊同時航空局交通部本部上沒有還沒有回覆給我們相關的每一個條文勞動法傳言勞動權好我的意思說以現在你不要繞圈子嘛現在航空局的回覆有沒有問題嗎\n\n17\n00:06:07,429 --> 00:06:26,827\n因為這個部分在法院他也有一些的看法實務上面到最高法院跟監察院所以現在現在看得到的法令就是這些問題這些勞動契約他就很明確講啊傳言法就沒有定定明確定定定期或不定期啊他說\n\n18\n00:06:27,808 --> 00:06:45,465\n仔明於中華民國哪一部法律．他說就是勞基法第9條啊主管機關中央就是勞動部地方就是縣市政府剛剛勞保局也講然後現在韓港局也回復這樣也就是說其實這個回復都是一致的嘛所以是沒有問題嘛而且是公文回復喔不是私底下聊天喔\n\n19\n00:06:46,285 --> 00:06:57,210\n跟委員報告我們這幾年來其實都有跟交通部好沒關係我只要你認定這個文是沒有問題就好好那我接下來請一下我們何部長\n\n20\n00:07:03,676 --> 00:07:18,035\n副部長,因為針對上次質詢過後我們有一些疑義,那我後來也請相關單位也來了解一下,那這是上次我們質詢的影片,我們先放一下看你上次的回覆是怎麼回覆本席的。\n\n21\n00:07:20,467 --> 00:07:45,725\n他們是定期企業或不定期企業不是勞動部界定的他不是有勞基法主管的範圍啦勞動企業是船員法這個特別法區認定的他的主管機關認定的不是我所以船員法不是對船員法是交通部航港局主管的他的勞僱關係的界定必須從船員法去處理\n\n22\n00:07:47,083 --> 00:08:10,148\n部長因為我那時候想說部長很專業啦所以我很相信可是後來我還是要下去查證可是我發現你看剛剛勞保局跟航港局的回覆你勞動關係事業講目前航港局這回覆是沒有問題的那照這樣來講好像我們部長的回覆跟我們航港局的回覆還有勞保局的回覆基本上好像是不太一致欸\n\n23\n00:08:10,933 --> 00:08:13,558\n老子爭議處理法\n\n24\n00:08:19,127 --> 00:08:44,181\n他是說勞僱關係如果他們之間有爭論的話我上次是有問你大勞工局去調解或是法院去認定我上次有特別問你他的僱傭關係的契約性質定期跟不定期是由誰來界定你說不是勞動部界定然後你還跟我講說這是傳言法界定\n\n25\n00:08:46,502 --> 00:09:07,580\n那是韓港局說謊嗎?我跟您報告交通部現在正在擬定不定期契約範本傳言法裡面的不定期契約範本傳言法裡面有定期契約目前現行是定期契約他目前沒有不定期契約範本他現在正在研擬\n\n26\n00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:27,910\n那個部長剛剛我又講吼,韓港局回覆他沒有定義吼。委員,這個影片跟剛剛我們問的我相信大家都看得非常非常的清楚。你直接就回覆我問你\n\n27\n00:09:29,071 --> 00:09:36,277\n我問你擁固關係的契約性質定期跟不定期到底是怎麼界定你從頭到尾都說跟勞動部沒有關係你說這是傳言法你還跟我講傳言法是特別法那韓港局也是這樣\n\n28\n00:09:45,985 --> 00:10:02,235\n這個傳言法從頭到尾他就不定義定期契約跟不定期契約而且他還直接講這個在勞基法第9條就原有講這個所有的勞動契約主管機關中央為勞動部地方為縣市政府我不知道部長你現在在爭什麼\n\n29\n00:10:03,376 --> 00:10:11,204\n委員我唸傳言法第12條給您聽。僱傭人僱傭傳言應簽訂書面僱傭契約,送請行政主管機關備查後,受僱傳言使得在傳上服務。僱傭契約終止時一統。第13條僱傭人僱傭傳言僱傭契約範本由行政主管機關定之。\n\n30\n00:10:24,758 --> 00:10:37,744\n對這個僱傭的關係他裡面定期或不定期都是傳言法去界定的目前傳言法這個我告訴你他們怎麼跟假設今天這是中綱運通\n\n31\n00:10:38,724 --> 00:10:38,744\n第1個\n\n32\n00:11:04,504 --> 00:11:12,349\n該去處理的直接的是高雄市政府勞工局如果沒有的話他們現在有在民事法院訴訟中而且已經達到最高法院去了\n\n33\n00:11:34,464 --> 00:11:55,352\n因為我們協定單位所有事情都推給法院通通不用處理了協定真的不是我的權利而我必須尊重司法那個法院的見解是這個法律這個牢記法已經寫得很清楚了所以韓港局的回覆所以我就說那很簡單啊不然就是韓港局說謊不然就是部長說謊這麼簡單\n\n34\n00:11:57,233 --> 00:12:04,637\n我們沒有誰說謊啦,我們都講的是事實因為牢記法是普通法我再強調牢記法是普通法傳言必須適用傳言法這個特別法優先所以傳言法的規定他會比牢記法優先適用你那時候講傳言法特別法我跟你講那牢記法是什麼法\n\n35\n00:12:20,646 --> 00:12:21,767\n普通法?\n\n36\n00:12:21,767 --> 00:12:22,367\n是普通法\n\n37\n00:12:35,472 --> 00:12:37,955\n老幾法是特別法還是普通法?傳言法是特別法,老幾法是什麼法?\n\n38\n00:12:50,831 --> 00:13:14,216\n我們勞動基準法是適用僱用關係的普通法只要我們第一勞基法第一條所以你講勞基法不是特別法嗎對不對是傳言法是特別法傳言法是特別法勞基法不是特別法那重點我們這個後法本來就是優於前法當然是你勞基法比傳言法大啊那今天它發生爭議的時候你怎麼全部推\n\n39\n00:13:16,196 --> 00:13:37,441\n老計法第1條就明文規定如果有特別法的話要依特別法這是老計法第1條的明文規定好我希望吼我相信吶現在我們要一個明確的問題我說很簡單韓港局的回覆剛剛我們也講得很清楚了那部長的回覆跟他的回覆根本就是完全相反的\n\n40\n00:13:37,921 --> 00:13:51,811\n所以我希望韓港局跟部長給我們一個明確的答案我不希望我們委員本席在這邊質詢的時候得到的答案部長給我們答案跟我們下去跟韓港局要的回覆是完全不一樣\n\n41\n00:13:53,112 --> 00:14:15,719\n我真的很想講我不知道為什麼我還聽到之前執政黨立委說我們勞動部有藐視國會的情形所以我希望這個事情能夠讓我們了解清楚而且我是認為這很明確啦部長你的答覆跟韓港局的回覆根本是天壤之別完全是相反然後你說是一致的我看不出哪裡一致完全都是不一樣的\n\n42\n00:14:18,905 --> 00:14:31,960\n委員那個兩個部會本來我們在這部分的認知有差距問題我們得到的答案都是不一樣你怎麼協調那是以後的事現在你給我們的答覆就是不一樣的好謝謝謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9943\t10364\t老保局白局長、勞動關係司黃副司長\n31826\t48064\t白局長我想請問一下因為針對我們勞保局有發一份公文我想請問一下白局長針對說明的第4點局長可以幫我們唸一遍嗎說明的第4點你看得到嗎可以\n48803\t67087\t可以幫我們唸一下嗎?報告委員我們的第4點是提到說至於勞資雙方如對僱傭關係存續期間之認定有爭議應向工作所在地之縣市政府勞工行政機關申請條處或尋司法途徑解決與以彌爭議那這個主要是源自於現在針對勞資爭議有一個勞資爭議處理法所以我們以這樣的一個規定在這邊去續名\n75549\t95867\t所以他這邊有講嘛僱傭關係的存續期間那這個認定還有就是我們工作場所縣市政府勞工行政機關申請調處的意思也就是說那照我們勞保局講這個契約的性質它為定期或不定期應該是勞政主管機關的責任對不對\n99902\t125021\t各位委員報告,我們這邊主要是依勞資爭議處理法裡面,針對勞資雙方如果有爭議,他們依循的法令不見得是勞動基準法,就是在勞資之間有爭議的話都可以依照基準來處理。所以依我們勞保局我們第4點講嘛,就是雇佣關係的存續,這部分勞工行政機關來申請調處嘛,所以這部分是勞動主管機關來負責處理嘛。\n127708\t149086\t你就針對第4點嘛對不對你的意思是不是這樣如果他要勞資正義調解可以找地方政府對啊就是有勞政主管機關那中央是勞動部嘛地方就是縣市政府嘛對不對沒有錯吧對沒關係你就針對你的回答就好你不要緊張好那我再請問一下我們勞動關係師黃副司長那針對我們\n155962\t163848\t韓港局我們有發文韓巡就是有關勞動契約的爭議,勞動契約爭議應該是我們勞動關係司在負責的業管單位嗎?勞動契約章是我們勞動關係司\n171582\t191935\t對,那我想請問一下副司長針對在航港局的回覆我們來討論一下你看有沒有什麼錯誤或者你覺得他這公文回覆有什麼問題的地方然後針對這公文我們把它陳述出來就是針對傳言法是否明定\n193089\t218107\t明文定義傳言法中何為定期契約、不定期契約那韓港局針對我們這問題他的回覆是說經查傳言法及相關執法並無定義定期契約或不定期契約也就是說傳言法他不管是本身他傳言法或相關執法並沒有明確的定義嘛這一部分他的回覆是這樣\n223193\t233807\t第二點,我們傳言法的僱傭契約中定期契約不定期契約的定義,載明中華民國哪一部法律中\n234548\t249112\t那業管的機關部會單位為何?那行管局的回覆是載於勞基法的第9條主管機關在中央為勞動部在直轄市為縣市政府\n252353\t273838\t所以這部分跟剛剛我們勞保局的回覆也是一樣所以針對我們傳援法的僱傭契約他就說在中華民國法律就是勞基法第9條也就是說主管機關在中央的勞動部在地方的就是縣市政府在航港局的回覆沒關係如果你覺得航港局會有問題你也可以提出\n274838\t286526\t然後第3點傳言法中受僱用之傳言針對其僱傭契約實質為定期契約不定期契約有相關爭議時就計投訴機關為何韓港局的回覆是說傳言對於僱傭契約之契約形式如有爭議勞資雙方可透過勞動主管機關進行協調或透過民事訴訟\n301997\t307918\t也就是說在中央他可以透過勞動部在地方可以透過縣市政府因為這剛剛已經講過嘛那針對這部分韓港局的回覆我們副市長你覺得他回覆有沒有問題謝謝委員因為我們其實此時此刻我們也針對剛剛委員關心的議題我們正請交通部我們正式請交通部那個函付給我們那我們兩個部會之間會針對這樣的一個議題進行討論可是他已經函付了嘛\n331804\t349057\t拜見韓副主管機關就是中央就是勞動部啊一方就是縣市政府我只要正確說目前是不是這樣以後你們要怎麼協調是你以後的事你現在就是這樣子嘛對不對現在的法令就是這樣嘛韓港局的回覆就是這樣啊因為這是韓港局委員這邊提到韓港局這邊提的\n351459\t366408\t因為我們這邊同時航空局交通部本部上沒有還沒有回覆給我們相關的每一個條文勞動法傳言勞動權好我的意思說以現在你不要繞圈子嘛現在航空局的回覆有沒有問題嗎\n367429\t386827\t因為這個部分在法院他也有一些的看法實務上面到最高法院跟監察院所以現在現在看得到的法令就是這些問題這些勞動契約他就很明確講啊傳言法就沒有定定明確定定定期或不定期啊他說\n387808\t405465\t仔明於中華民國哪一部法律．他說就是勞基法第9條啊主管機關中央就是勞動部地方就是縣市政府剛剛勞保局也講然後現在韓港局也回復這樣也就是說其實這個回復都是一致的嘛所以是沒有問題嘛而且是公文回復喔不是私底下聊天喔\n406285\t417210\t跟委員報告我們這幾年來其實都有跟交通部好沒關係我只要你認定這個文是沒有問題就好好那我接下來請一下我們何部長\n423676\t438035\t副部長,因為針對上次質詢過後我們有一些疑義,那我後來也請相關單位也來了解一下,那這是上次我們質詢的影片,我們先放一下看你上次的回覆是怎麼回覆本席的。\n440467\t465725\t他們是定期企業或不定期企業不是勞動部界定的他不是有勞基法主管的範圍啦勞動企業是船員法這個特別法區認定的他的主管機關認定的不是我所以船員法不是對船員法是交通部航港局主管的他的勞僱關係的界定必須從船員法去處理\n467083\t490148\t部長因為我那時候想說部長很專業啦所以我很相信可是後來我還是要下去查證可是我發現你看剛剛勞保局跟航港局的回覆你勞動關係事業講目前航港局這回覆是沒有問題的那照這樣來講好像我們部長的回覆跟我們航港局的回覆還有勞保局的回覆基本上好像是不太一致欸\n490933\t493558\t老子爭議處理法\n499127\t524181\t他是說勞僱關係如果他們之間有爭論的話我上次是有問你大勞工局去調解或是法院去認定我上次有特別問你他的僱傭關係的契約性質定期跟不定期是由誰來界定你說不是勞動部界定然後你還跟我講說這是傳言法界定\n526502\t547580\t那是韓港局說謊嗎?我跟您報告交通部現在正在擬定不定期契約範本傳言法裡面的不定期契約範本傳言法裡面有定期契約目前現行是定期契約他目前沒有不定期契約範本他現在正在研擬\n548120\t567910\t那個部長剛剛我又講吼,韓港局回覆他沒有定義吼。委員,這個影片跟剛剛我們問的我相信大家都看得非常非常的清楚。你直接就回覆我問你\n569071\t576277\t我問你擁固關係的契約性質定期跟不定期到底是怎麼界定你從頭到尾都說跟勞動部沒有關係你說這是傳言法你還跟我講傳言法是特別法那韓港局也是這樣\n585985\t602235\t這個傳言法從頭到尾他就不定義定期契約跟不定期契約而且他還直接講這個在勞基法第9條就原有講這個所有的勞動契約主管機關中央為勞動部地方為縣市政府我不知道部長你現在在爭什麼\n603376\t611204\t委員我唸傳言法第12條給您聽。僱傭人僱傭傳言應簽訂書面僱傭契約,送請行政主管機關備查後,受僱傳言使得在傳上服務。僱傭契約終止時一統。第13條僱傭人僱傭傳言僱傭契約範本由行政主管機關定之。\n624758\t637744\t對這個僱傭的關係他裡面定期或不定期都是傳言法去界定的目前傳言法這個我告訴你他們怎麼跟假設今天這是中綱運通\n638724\t638744\t第1個\n664504\t672349\t該去處理的直接的是高雄市政府勞工局如果沒有的話他們現在有在民事法院訴訟中而且已經達到最高法院去了\n694464\t715352\t因為我們協定單位所有事情都推給法院通通不用處理了協定真的不是我的權利而我必須尊重司法那個法院的見解是這個法律這個牢記法已經寫得很清楚了所以韓港局的回覆所以我就說那很簡單啊不然就是韓港局說謊不然就是部長說謊這麼簡單\n717233\t724637\t我們沒有誰說謊啦,我們都講的是事實因為牢記法是普通法我再強調牢記法是普通法傳言必須適用傳言法這個特別法優先所以傳言法的規定他會比牢記法優先適用你那時候講傳言法特別法我跟你講那牢記法是什麼法\n740646\t741767\t普通法?\n741767\t742367\t是普通法\n755472\t757955\t老幾法是特別法還是普通法?傳言法是特別法,老幾法是什麼法?\n770831\t794216\t我們勞動基準法是適用僱用關係的普通法只要我們第一勞基法第一條所以你講勞基法不是特別法嗎對不對是傳言法是特別法傳言法是特別法勞基法不是特別法那重點我們這個後法本來就是優於前法當然是你勞基法比傳言法大啊那今天它發生爭議的時候你怎麼全部推\n796196\t817441\t老計法第1條就明文規定如果有特別法的話要依特別法這是老計法第1條的明文規定好我希望吼我相信吶現在我們要一個明確的問題我說很簡單韓港局的回覆剛剛我們也講得很清楚了那部長的回覆跟他的回覆根本就是完全相反的\n817921\t831811\t所以我希望韓港局跟部長給我們一個明確的答案我不希望我們委員本席在這邊質詢的時候得到的答案部長給我們答案跟我們下去跟韓港局要的回覆是完全不一樣\n833112\t855719\t我真的很想講我不知道為什麼我還聽到之前執政黨立委說我們勞動部有藐視國會的情形所以我希望這個事情能夠讓我們了解清楚而且我是認為這很明確啦部長你的答覆跟韓港局的回覆根本是天壤之別完全是相反然後你說是一致的我看不出哪裡一致完全都是不一樣的\n858905\t871960\t委員那個兩個部會本來我們在這部分的認知有差距問題我們得到的答案都是不一樣你怎麼協調那是以後的事現在你給我們的答覆就是不一樣的好謝謝謝謝\n","txt":"老保局白局長、勞動關係司黃副司長\n白局長我想請問一下因為針對我們勞保局有發一份公文我想請問一下白局長針對說明的第4點局長可以幫我們唸一遍嗎說明的第4點你看得到嗎可以\n可以幫我們唸一下嗎?報告委員我們的第4點是提到說至於勞資雙方如對僱傭關係存續期間之認定有爭議應向工作所在地之縣市政府勞工行政機關申請條處或尋司法途徑解決與以彌爭議那這個主要是源自於現在針對勞資爭議有一個勞資爭議處理法所以我們以這樣的一個規定在這邊去續名\n所以他這邊有講嘛僱傭關係的存續期間那這個認定還有就是我們工作場所縣市政府勞工行政機關申請調處的意思也就是說那照我們勞保局講這個契約的性質它為定期或不定期應該是勞政主管機關的責任對不對\n各位委員報告,我們這邊主要是依勞資爭議處理法裡面,針對勞資雙方如果有爭議,他們依循的法令不見得是勞動基準法,就是在勞資之間有爭議的話都可以依照基準來處理。所以依我們勞保局我們第4點講嘛,就是雇佣關係的存續,這部分勞工行政機關來申請調處嘛,所以這部分是勞動主管機關來負責處理嘛。\n你就針對第4點嘛對不對你的意思是不是這樣如果他要勞資正義調解可以找地方政府對啊就是有勞政主管機關那中央是勞動部嘛地方就是縣市政府嘛對不對沒有錯吧對沒關係你就針對你的回答就好你不要緊張好那我再請問一下我們勞動關係師黃副司長那針對我們\n韓港局我們有發文韓巡就是有關勞動契約的爭議,勞動契約爭議應該是我們勞動關係司在負責的業管單位嗎?勞動契約章是我們勞動關係司\n對,那我想請問一下副司長針對在航港局的回覆我們來討論一下你看有沒有什麼錯誤或者你覺得他這公文回覆有什麼問題的地方然後針對這公文我們把它陳述出來就是針對傳言法是否明定\n明文定義傳言法中何為定期契約、不定期契約那韓港局針對我們這問題他的回覆是說經查傳言法及相關執法並無定義定期契約或不定期契約也就是說傳言法他不管是本身他傳言法或相關執法並沒有明確的定義嘛這一部分他的回覆是這樣\n第二點,我們傳言法的僱傭契約中定期契約不定期契約的定義,載明中華民國哪一部法律中\n那業管的機關部會單位為何?那行管局的回覆是載於勞基法的第9條主管機關在中央為勞動部在直轄市為縣市政府\n所以這部分跟剛剛我們勞保局的回覆也是一樣所以針對我們傳援法的僱傭契約他就說在中華民國法律就是勞基法第9條也就是說主管機關在中央的勞動部在地方的就是縣市政府在航港局的回覆沒關係如果你覺得航港局會有問題你也可以提出\n然後第3點傳言法中受僱用之傳言針對其僱傭契約實質為定期契約不定期契約有相關爭議時就計投訴機關為何韓港局的回覆是說傳言對於僱傭契約之契約形式如有爭議勞資雙方可透過勞動主管機關進行協調或透過民事訴訟\n也就是說在中央他可以透過勞動部在地方可以透過縣市政府因為這剛剛已經講過嘛那針對這部分韓港局的回覆我們副市長你覺得他回覆有沒有問題謝謝委員因為我們其實此時此刻我們也針對剛剛委員關心的議題我們正請交通部我們正式請交通部那個函付給我們那我們兩個部會之間會針對這樣的一個議題進行討論可是他已經函付了嘛\n拜見韓副主管機關就是中央就是勞動部啊一方就是縣市政府我只要正確說目前是不是這樣以後你們要怎麼協調是你以後的事你現在就是這樣子嘛對不對現在的法令就是這樣嘛韓港局的回覆就是這樣啊因為這是韓港局委員這邊提到韓港局這邊提的\n因為我們這邊同時航空局交通部本部上沒有還沒有回覆給我們相關的每一個條文勞動法傳言勞動權好我的意思說以現在你不要繞圈子嘛現在航空局的回覆有沒有問題嗎\n因為這個部分在法院他也有一些的看法實務上面到最高法院跟監察院所以現在現在看得到的法令就是這些問題這些勞動契約他就很明確講啊傳言法就沒有定定明確定定定期或不定期啊他說\n仔明於中華民國哪一部法律．他說就是勞基法第9條啊主管機關中央就是勞動部地方就是縣市政府剛剛勞保局也講然後現在韓港局也回復這樣也就是說其實這個回復都是一致的嘛所以是沒有問題嘛而且是公文回復喔不是私底下聊天喔\n跟委員報告我們這幾年來其實都有跟交通部好沒關係我只要你認定這個文是沒有問題就好好那我接下來請一下我們何部長\n副部長,因為針對上次質詢過後我們有一些疑義,那我後來也請相關單位也來了解一下,那這是上次我們質詢的影片,我們先放一下看你上次的回覆是怎麼回覆本席的。\n他們是定期企業或不定期企業不是勞動部界定的他不是有勞基法主管的範圍啦勞動企業是船員法這個特別法區認定的他的主管機關認定的不是我所以船員法不是對船員法是交通部航港局主管的他的勞僱關係的界定必須從船員法去處理\n部長因為我那時候想說部長很專業啦所以我很相信可是後來我還是要下去查證可是我發現你看剛剛勞保局跟航港局的回覆你勞動關係事業講目前航港局這回覆是沒有問題的那照這樣來講好像我們部長的回覆跟我們航港局的回覆還有勞保局的回覆基本上好像是不太一致欸\n老子爭議處理法\n他是說勞僱關係如果他們之間有爭論的話我上次是有問你大勞工局去調解或是法院去認定我上次有特別問你他的僱傭關係的契約性質定期跟不定期是由誰來界定你說不是勞動部界定然後你還跟我講說這是傳言法界定\n那是韓港局說謊嗎?我跟您報告交通部現在正在擬定不定期契約範本傳言法裡面的不定期契約範本傳言法裡面有定期契約目前現行是定期契約他目前沒有不定期契約範本他現在正在研擬\n那個部長剛剛我又講吼,韓港局回覆他沒有定義吼。委員,這個影片跟剛剛我們問的我相信大家都看得非常非常的清楚。你直接就回覆我問你\n我問你擁固關係的契約性質定期跟不定期到底是怎麼界定你從頭到尾都說跟勞動部沒有關係你說這是傳言法你還跟我講傳言法是特別法那韓港局也是這樣\n這個傳言法從頭到尾他就不定義定期契約跟不定期契約而且他還直接講這個在勞基法第9條就原有講這個所有的勞動契約主管機關中央為勞動部地方為縣市政府我不知道部長你現在在爭什麼\n委員我唸傳言法第12條給您聽。僱傭人僱傭傳言應簽訂書面僱傭契約,送請行政主管機關備查後,受僱傳言使得在傳上服務。僱傭契約終止時一統。第13條僱傭人僱傭傳言僱傭契約範本由行政主管機關定之。\n對這個僱傭的關係他裡面定期或不定期都是傳言法去界定的目前傳言法這個我告訴你他們怎麼跟假設今天這是中綱運通\n第1個\n該去處理的直接的是高雄市政府勞工局如果沒有的話他們現在有在民事法院訴訟中而且已經達到最高法院去了\n因為我們協定單位所有事情都推給法院通通不用處理了協定真的不是我的權利而我必須尊重司法那個法院的見解是這個法律這個牢記法已經寫得很清楚了所以韓港局的回覆所以我就說那很簡單啊不然就是韓港局說謊不然就是部長說謊這麼簡單\n我們沒有誰說謊啦,我們都講的是事實因為牢記法是普通法我再強調牢記法是普通法傳言必須適用傳言法這個特別法優先所以傳言法的規定他會比牢記法優先適用你那時候講傳言法特別法我跟你講那牢記法是什麼法\n普通法?\n是普通法\n老幾法是特別法還是普通法?傳言法是特別法,老幾法是什麼法?\n我們勞動基準法是適用僱用關係的普通法只要我們第一勞基法第一條所以你講勞基法不是特別法嗎對不對是傳言法是特別法傳言法是特別法勞基法不是特別法那重點我們這個後法本來就是優於前法當然是你勞基法比傳言法大啊那今天它發生爭議的時候你怎麼全部推\n老計法第1條就明文規定如果有特別法的話要依特別法這是老計法第1條的明文規定好我希望吼我相信吶現在我們要一個明確的問題我說很簡單韓港局的回覆剛剛我們也講得很清楚了那部長的回覆跟他的回覆根本就是完全相反的\n所以我希望韓港局跟部長給我們一個明確的答案我不希望我們委員本席在這邊質詢的時候得到的答案部長給我們答案跟我們下去跟韓港局要的回覆是完全不一樣\n我真的很想講我不知道為什麼我還聽到之前執政黨立委說我們勞動部有藐視國會的情形所以我希望這個事情能夠讓我們了解清楚而且我是認為這很明確啦部長你的答覆跟韓港局的回覆根本是天壤之別完全是相反然後你說是一致的我看不出哪裡一致完全都是不一樣的\n委員那個兩個部會本來我們在這部分的認知有差距問題我們得到的答案都是不一樣你怎麼協調那是以後的事現在你給我們的答覆就是不一樣的好謝謝謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.943 --> 00:10.364\n老保局白局長、勞動關係司黃副司長\n\n00:31.826 --> 00:48.064\n白局長我想請問一下因為針對我們勞保局有發一份公文我想請問一下白局長針對說明的第4點局長可以幫我們唸一遍嗎說明的第4點你看得到嗎可以\n\n00:48.803 --> 01:07.087\n可以幫我們唸一下嗎?報告委員我們的第4點是提到說至於勞資雙方如對僱傭關係存續期間之認定有爭議應向工作所在地之縣市政府勞工行政機關申請條處或尋司法途徑解決與以彌爭議那這個主要是源自於現在針對勞資爭議有一個勞資爭議處理法所以我們以這樣的一個規定在這邊去續名\n\n01:15.549 --> 01:35.867\n所以他這邊有講嘛僱傭關係的存續期間那這個認定還有就是我們工作場所縣市政府勞工行政機關申請調處的意思也就是說那照我們勞保局講這個契約的性質它為定期或不定期應該是勞政主管機關的責任對不對\n\n01:39.902 --> 02:05.021\n各位委員報告,我們這邊主要是依勞資爭議處理法裡面,針對勞資雙方如果有爭議,他們依循的法令不見得是勞動基準法,就是在勞資之間有爭議的話都可以依照基準來處理。所以依我們勞保局我們第4點講嘛,就是雇佣關係的存續,這部分勞工行政機關來申請調處嘛,所以這部分是勞動主管機關來負責處理嘛。\n\n02:07.708 --> 02:29.086\n你就針對第4點嘛對不對你的意思是不是這樣如果他要勞資正義調解可以找地方政府對啊就是有勞政主管機關那中央是勞動部嘛地方就是縣市政府嘛對不對沒有錯吧對沒關係你就針對你的回答就好你不要緊張好那我再請問一下我們勞動關係師黃副司長那針對我們\n\n02:35.962 --> 02:43.848\n韓港局我們有發文韓巡就是有關勞動契約的爭議,勞動契約爭議應該是我們勞動關係司在負責的業管單位嗎?勞動契約章是我們勞動關係司\n\n02:51.582 --> 03:11.935\n對,那我想請問一下副司長針對在航港局的回覆我們來討論一下你看有沒有什麼錯誤或者你覺得他這公文回覆有什麼問題的地方然後針對這公文我們把它陳述出來就是針對傳言法是否明定\n\n03:13.089 --> 03:38.107\n明文定義傳言法中何為定期契約、不定期契約那韓港局針對我們這問題他的回覆是說經查傳言法及相關執法並無定義定期契約或不定期契約也就是說傳言法他不管是本身他傳言法或相關執法並沒有明確的定義嘛這一部分他的回覆是這樣\n\n03:43.193 --> 03:53.807\n第二點,我們傳言法的僱傭契約中定期契約不定期契約的定義,載明中華民國哪一部法律中\n\n03:54.548 --> 04:09.112\n那業管的機關部會單位為何?那行管局的回覆是載於勞基法的第9條主管機關在中央為勞動部在直轄市為縣市政府\n\n04:12.353 --> 04:33.838\n所以這部分跟剛剛我們勞保局的回覆也是一樣所以針對我們傳援法的僱傭契約他就說在中華民國法律就是勞基法第9條也就是說主管機關在中央的勞動部在地方的就是縣市政府在航港局的回覆沒關係如果你覺得航港局會有問題你也可以提出\n\n04:34.838 --> 04:46.526\n然後第3點傳言法中受僱用之傳言針對其僱傭契約實質為定期契約不定期契約有相關爭議時就計投訴機關為何韓港局的回覆是說傳言對於僱傭契約之契約形式如有爭議勞資雙方可透過勞動主管機關進行協調或透過民事訴訟\n\n05:01.997 --> 05:07.918\n也就是說在中央他可以透過勞動部在地方可以透過縣市政府因為這剛剛已經講過嘛那針對這部分韓港局的回覆我們副市長你覺得他回覆有沒有問題謝謝委員因為我們其實此時此刻我們也針對剛剛委員關心的議題我們正請交通部我們正式請交通部那個函付給我們那我們兩個部會之間會針對這樣的一個議題進行討論可是他已經函付了嘛\n\n05:31.804 --> 05:49.057\n拜見韓副主管機關就是中央就是勞動部啊一方就是縣市政府我只要正確說目前是不是這樣以後你們要怎麼協調是你以後的事你現在就是這樣子嘛對不對現在的法令就是這樣嘛韓港局的回覆就是這樣啊因為這是韓港局委員這邊提到韓港局這邊提的\n\n05:51.459 --> 06:06.408\n因為我們這邊同時航空局交通部本部上沒有還沒有回覆給我們相關的每一個條文勞動法傳言勞動權好我的意思說以現在你不要繞圈子嘛現在航空局的回覆有沒有問題嗎\n\n06:07.429 --> 06:26.827\n因為這個部分在法院他也有一些的看法實務上面到最高法院跟監察院所以現在現在看得到的法令就是這些問題這些勞動契約他就很明確講啊傳言法就沒有定定明確定定定期或不定期啊他說\n\n06:27.808 --> 06:45.465\n仔明於中華民國哪一部法律．他說就是勞基法第9條啊主管機關中央就是勞動部地方就是縣市政府剛剛勞保局也講然後現在韓港局也回復這樣也就是說其實這個回復都是一致的嘛所以是沒有問題嘛而且是公文回復喔不是私底下聊天喔\n\n06:46.285 --> 06:57.210\n跟委員報告我們這幾年來其實都有跟交通部好沒關係我只要你認定這個文是沒有問題就好好那我接下來請一下我們何部長\n\n07:03.676 --> 07:18.035\n副部長,因為針對上次質詢過後我們有一些疑義,那我後來也請相關單位也來了解一下,那這是上次我們質詢的影片,我們先放一下看你上次的回覆是怎麼回覆本席的。\n\n07:20.467 --> 07:45.725\n他們是定期企業或不定期企業不是勞動部界定的他不是有勞基法主管的範圍啦勞動企業是船員法這個特別法區認定的他的主管機關認定的不是我所以船員法不是對船員法是交通部航港局主管的他的勞僱關係的界定必須從船員法去處理\n\n07:47.083 --> 08:10.148\n部長因為我那時候想說部長很專業啦所以我很相信可是後來我還是要下去查證可是我發現你看剛剛勞保局跟航港局的回覆你勞動關係事業講目前航港局這回覆是沒有問題的那照這樣來講好像我們部長的回覆跟我們航港局的回覆還有勞保局的回覆基本上好像是不太一致欸\n\n08:10.933 --> 08:13.558\n老子爭議處理法\n\n08:19.127 --> 08:44.181\n他是說勞僱關係如果他們之間有爭論的話我上次是有問你大勞工局去調解或是法院去認定我上次有特別問你他的僱傭關係的契約性質定期跟不定期是由誰來界定你說不是勞動部界定然後你還跟我講說這是傳言法界定\n\n08:46.502 --> 09:07.580\n那是韓港局說謊嗎?我跟您報告交通部現在正在擬定不定期契約範本傳言法裡面的不定期契約範本傳言法裡面有定期契約目前現行是定期契約他目前沒有不定期契約範本他現在正在研擬\n\n09:08.120 --> 09:27.910\n那個部長剛剛我又講吼,韓港局回覆他沒有定義吼。委員,這個影片跟剛剛我們問的我相信大家都看得非常非常的清楚。你直接就回覆我問你\n\n09:29.071 --> 09:36.277\n我問你擁固關係的契約性質定期跟不定期到底是怎麼界定你從頭到尾都說跟勞動部沒有關係你說這是傳言法你還跟我講傳言法是特別法那韓港局也是這樣\n\n09:45.985 --> 10:02.235\n這個傳言法從頭到尾他就不定義定期契約跟不定期契約而且他還直接講這個在勞基法第9條就原有講這個所有的勞動契約主管機關中央為勞動部地方為縣市政府我不知道部長你現在在爭什麼\n\n10:03.376 --> 10:11.204\n委員我唸傳言法第12條給您聽。僱傭人僱傭傳言應簽訂書面僱傭契約,送請行政主管機關備查後,受僱傳言使得在傳上服務。僱傭契約終止時一統。第13條僱傭人僱傭傳言僱傭契約範本由行政主管機關定之。\n\n10:24.758 --> 10:37.744\n對這個僱傭的關係他裡面定期或不定期都是傳言法去界定的目前傳言法這個我告訴你他們怎麼跟假設今天這是中綱運通\n\n10:38.724 --> 10:38.744\n第1個\n\n11:04.504 --> 11:12.349\n該去處理的直接的是高雄市政府勞工局如果沒有的話他們現在有在民事法院訴訟中而且已經達到最高法院去了\n\n11:34.464 --> 11:55.352\n因為我們協定單位所有事情都推給法院通通不用處理了協定真的不是我的權利而我必須尊重司法那個法院的見解是這個法律這個牢記法已經寫得很清楚了所以韓港局的回覆所以我就說那很簡單啊不然就是韓港局說謊不然就是部長說謊這麼簡單\n\n11:57.233 --> 12:04.637\n我們沒有誰說謊啦,我們都講的是事實因為牢記法是普通法我再強調牢記法是普通法傳言必須適用傳言法這個特別法優先所以傳言法的規定他會比牢記法優先適用你那時候講傳言法特別法我跟你講那牢記法是什麼法\n\n12:20.646 --> 12:21.767\n普通法?\n\n12:21.767 --> 12:22.367\n是普通法\n\n12:35.472 --> 12:37.955\n老幾法是特別法還是普通法?傳言法是特別法,老幾法是什麼法?\n\n12:50.831 --> 13:14.216\n我們勞動基準法是適用僱用關係的普通法只要我們第一勞基法第一條所以你講勞基法不是特別法嗎對不對是傳言法是特別法傳言法是特別法勞基法不是特別法那重點我們這個後法本來就是優於前法當然是你勞基法比傳言法大啊那今天它發生爭議的時候你怎麼全部推\n\n13:16.196 --> 13:37.441\n老計法第1條就明文規定如果有特別法的話要依特別法這是老計法第1條的明文規定好我希望吼我相信吶現在我們要一個明確的問題我說很簡單韓港局的回覆剛剛我們也講得很清楚了那部長的回覆跟他的回覆根本就是完全相反的\n\n13:37.921 --> 13:51.811\n所以我希望韓港局跟部長給我們一個明確的答案我不希望我們委員本席在這邊質詢的時候得到的答案部長給我們答案跟我們下去跟韓港局要的回覆是完全不一樣\n\n13:53.112 --> 14:15.719\n我真的很想講我不知道為什麼我還聽到之前執政黨立委說我們勞動部有藐視國會的情形所以我希望這個事情能夠讓我們了解清楚而且我是認為這很明確啦部長你的答覆跟韓港局的回覆根本是天壤之別完全是相反然後你說是一致的我看不出哪裡一致完全都是不一樣的\n\n14:18.905 --> 14:31.960\n委員那個兩個部會本來我們在這部分的認知有差距問題我們得到的答案都是不一樣你怎麼協調那是以後的事現在你給我們的答覆就是不一樣的好謝謝謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.943,"end":10.364,"text":"老保局白局長、勞動關係司黃副司長"},{"start":31.826,"end":48.064,"text":"白局長我想請問一下因為針對我們勞保局有發一份公文我想請問一下白局長針對說明的第4點局長可以幫我們唸一遍嗎說明的第4點你看得到嗎可以"},{"start":48.803,"end":67.087,"text":"可以幫我們唸一下嗎?報告委員我們的第4點是提到說至於勞資雙方如對僱傭關係存續期間之認定有爭議應向工作所在地之縣市政府勞工行政機關申請條處或尋司法途徑解決與以彌爭議那這個主要是源自於現在針對勞資爭議有一個勞資爭議處理法所以我們以這樣的一個規定在這邊去續名"},{"start":75.549,"end":95.867,"text":"所以他這邊有講嘛僱傭關係的存續期間那這個認定還有就是我們工作場所縣市政府勞工行政機關申請調處的意思也就是說那照我們勞保局講這個契約的性質它為定期或不定期應該是勞政主管機關的責任對不對"},{"start":99.902,"end":125.021,"text":"各位委員報告,我們這邊主要是依勞資爭議處理法裡面,針對勞資雙方如果有爭議,他們依循的法令不見得是勞動基準法,就是在勞資之間有爭議的話都可以依照基準來處理。所以依我們勞保局我們第4點講嘛,就是雇佣關係的存續,這部分勞工行政機關來申請調處嘛,所以這部分是勞動主管機關來負責處理嘛。"},{"start":127.708,"end":149.086,"text":"你就針對第4點嘛對不對你的意思是不是這樣如果他要勞資正義調解可以找地方政府對啊就是有勞政主管機關那中央是勞動部嘛地方就是縣市政府嘛對不對沒有錯吧對沒關係你就針對你的回答就好你不要緊張好那我再請問一下我們勞動關係師黃副司長那針對我們"},{"start":155.962,"end":163.848,"text":"韓港局我們有發文韓巡就是有關勞動契約的爭議,勞動契約爭議應該是我們勞動關係司在負責的業管單位嗎?勞動契約章是我們勞動關係司"},{"start":171.582,"end":191.935,"text":"對,那我想請問一下副司長針對在航港局的回覆我們來討論一下你看有沒有什麼錯誤或者你覺得他這公文回覆有什麼問題的地方然後針對這公文我們把它陳述出來就是針對傳言法是否明定"},{"start":193.089,"end":218.107,"text":"明文定義傳言法中何為定期契約、不定期契約那韓港局針對我們這問題他的回覆是說經查傳言法及相關執法並無定義定期契約或不定期契約也就是說傳言法他不管是本身他傳言法或相關執法並沒有明確的定義嘛這一部分他的回覆是這樣"},{"start":223.193,"end":233.807,"text":"第二點,我們傳言法的僱傭契約中定期契約不定期契約的定義,載明中華民國哪一部法律中"},{"start":234.548,"end":249.112,"text":"那業管的機關部會單位為何?那行管局的回覆是載於勞基法的第9條主管機關在中央為勞動部在直轄市為縣市政府"},{"start":252.353,"end":273.838,"text":"所以這部分跟剛剛我們勞保局的回覆也是一樣所以針對我們傳援法的僱傭契約他就說在中華民國法律就是勞基法第9條也就是說主管機關在中央的勞動部在地方的就是縣市政府在航港局的回覆沒關係如果你覺得航港局會有問題你也可以提出"},{"start":274.838,"end":286.526,"text":"然後第3點傳言法中受僱用之傳言針對其僱傭契約實質為定期契約不定期契約有相關爭議時就計投訴機關為何韓港局的回覆是說傳言對於僱傭契約之契約形式如有爭議勞資雙方可透過勞動主管機關進行協調或透過民事訴訟"},{"start":301.997,"end":307.918,"text":"也就是說在中央他可以透過勞動部在地方可以透過縣市政府因為這剛剛已經講過嘛那針對這部分韓港局的回覆我們副市長你覺得他回覆有沒有問題謝謝委員因為我們其實此時此刻我們也針對剛剛委員關心的議題我們正請交通部我們正式請交通部那個函付給我們那我們兩個部會之間會針對這樣的一個議題進行討論可是他已經函付了嘛"},{"start":331.804,"end":349.057,"text":"拜見韓副主管機關就是中央就是勞動部啊一方就是縣市政府我只要正確說目前是不是這樣以後你們要怎麼協調是你以後的事你現在就是這樣子嘛對不對現在的法令就是這樣嘛韓港局的回覆就是這樣啊因為這是韓港局委員這邊提到韓港局這邊提的"},{"start":351.459,"end":366.408,"text":"因為我們這邊同時航空局交通部本部上沒有還沒有回覆給我們相關的每一個條文勞動法傳言勞動權好我的意思說以現在你不要繞圈子嘛現在航空局的回覆有沒有問題嗎"},{"start":367.429,"end":386.827,"text":"因為這個部分在法院他也有一些的看法實務上面到最高法院跟監察院所以現在現在看得到的法令就是這些問題這些勞動契約他就很明確講啊傳言法就沒有定定明確定定定期或不定期啊他說"},{"start":387.808,"end":405.465,"text":"仔明於中華民國哪一部法律．他說就是勞基法第9條啊主管機關中央就是勞動部地方就是縣市政府剛剛勞保局也講然後現在韓港局也回復這樣也就是說其實這個回復都是一致的嘛所以是沒有問題嘛而且是公文回復喔不是私底下聊天喔"},{"start":406.285,"end":417.21,"text":"跟委員報告我們這幾年來其實都有跟交通部好沒關係我只要你認定這個文是沒有問題就好好那我接下來請一下我們何部長"},{"start":423.676,"end":438.035,"text":"副部長,因為針對上次質詢過後我們有一些疑義,那我後來也請相關單位也來了解一下,那這是上次我們質詢的影片,我們先放一下看你上次的回覆是怎麼回覆本席的。"},{"start":440.467,"end":465.725,"text":"他們是定期企業或不定期企業不是勞動部界定的他不是有勞基法主管的範圍啦勞動企業是船員法這個特別法區認定的他的主管機關認定的不是我所以船員法不是對船員法是交通部航港局主管的他的勞僱關係的界定必須從船員法去處理"},{"start":467.083,"end":490.148,"text":"部長因為我那時候想說部長很專業啦所以我很相信可是後來我還是要下去查證可是我發現你看剛剛勞保局跟航港局的回覆你勞動關係事業講目前航港局這回覆是沒有問題的那照這樣來講好像我們部長的回覆跟我們航港局的回覆還有勞保局的回覆基本上好像是不太一致欸"},{"start":490.933,"end":493.558,"text":"老子爭議處理法"},{"start":499.127,"end":524.181,"text":"他是說勞僱關係如果他們之間有爭論的話我上次是有問你大勞工局去調解或是法院去認定我上次有特別問你他的僱傭關係的契約性質定期跟不定期是由誰來界定你說不是勞動部界定然後你還跟我講說這是傳言法界定"},{"start":526.502,"end":547.58,"text":"那是韓港局說謊嗎?我跟您報告交通部現在正在擬定不定期契約範本傳言法裡面的不定期契約範本傳言法裡面有定期契約目前現行是定期契約他目前沒有不定期契約範本他現在正在研擬"},{"start":548.12,"end":567.91,"text":"那個部長剛剛我又講吼,韓港局回覆他沒有定義吼。委員,這個影片跟剛剛我們問的我相信大家都看得非常非常的清楚。你直接就回覆我問你"},{"start":569.071,"end":576.277,"text":"我問你擁固關係的契約性質定期跟不定期到底是怎麼界定你從頭到尾都說跟勞動部沒有關係你說這是傳言法你還跟我講傳言法是特別法那韓港局也是這樣"},{"start":585.985,"end":602.235,"text":"這個傳言法從頭到尾他就不定義定期契約跟不定期契約而且他還直接講這個在勞基法第9條就原有講這個所有的勞動契約主管機關中央為勞動部地方為縣市政府我不知道部長你現在在爭什麼"},{"start":603.376,"end":611.204,"text":"委員我唸傳言法第12條給您聽。僱傭人僱傭傳言應簽訂書面僱傭契約,送請行政主管機關備查後,受僱傳言使得在傳上服務。僱傭契約終止時一統。第13條僱傭人僱傭傳言僱傭契約範本由行政主管機關定之。"},{"start":624.758,"end":637.744,"text":"對這個僱傭的關係他裡面定期或不定期都是傳言法去界定的目前傳言法這個我告訴你他們怎麼跟假設今天這是中綱運通"},{"start":638.724,"end":638.744,"text":"第1個"},{"start":664.504,"end":672.349,"text":"該去處理的直接的是高雄市政府勞工局如果沒有的話他們現在有在民事法院訴訟中而且已經達到最高法院去了"},{"start":694.464,"end":715.352,"text":"因為我們協定單位所有事情都推給法院通通不用處理了協定真的不是我的權利而我必須尊重司法那個法院的見解是這個法律這個牢記法已經寫得很清楚了所以韓港局的回覆所以我就說那很簡單啊不然就是韓港局說謊不然就是部長說謊這麼簡單"},{"start":717.233,"end":724.637,"text":"我們沒有誰說謊啦,我們都講的是事實因為牢記法是普通法我再強調牢記法是普通法傳言必須適用傳言法這個特別法優先所以傳言法的規定他會比牢記法優先適用你那時候講傳言法特別法我跟你講那牢記法是什麼法"},{"start":740.646,"end":741.767,"text":"普通法?"},{"start":741.767,"end":742.367,"text":"是普通法"},{"start":755.472,"end":757.955,"text":"老幾法是特別法還是普通法?傳言法是特別法,老幾法是什麼法?"},{"start":770.831,"end":794.216,"text":"我們勞動基準法是適用僱用關係的普通法只要我們第一勞基法第一條所以你講勞基法不是特別法嗎對不對是傳言法是特別法傳言法是特別法勞基法不是特別法那重點我們這個後法本來就是優於前法當然是你勞基法比傳言法大啊那今天它發生爭議的時候你怎麼全部推"},{"start":796.196,"end":817.441,"text":"老計法第1條就明文規定如果有特別法的話要依特別法這是老計法第1條的明文規定好我希望吼我相信吶現在我們要一個明確的問題我說很簡單韓港局的回覆剛剛我們也講得很清楚了那部長的回覆跟他的回覆根本就是完全相反的"},{"start":817.921,"end":831.811,"text":"所以我希望韓港局跟部長給我們一個明確的答案我不希望我們委員本席在這邊質詢的時候得到的答案部長給我們答案跟我們下去跟韓港局要的回覆是完全不一樣"},{"start":833.112,"end":855.719,"text":"我真的很想講我不知道為什麼我還聽到之前執政黨立委說我們勞動部有藐視國會的情形所以我希望這個事情能夠讓我們了解清楚而且我是認為這很明確啦部長你的答覆跟韓港局的回覆根本是天壤之別完全是相反然後你說是一致的我看不出哪裡一致完全都是不一樣的"},{"start":858.905,"end":871.96,"text":"委員那個兩個部會本來我們在這部分的認知有差距問題我們得到的答案都是不一樣你怎麼協調那是以後的事現在你給我們的答覆就是不一樣的好謝謝謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1208,"blocks":[["涂委員權吉：（13時53分）謝謝主席，先請勞保局的白局長，還有勞動關係司的黃副司長。"],["主席：白局長、黃副司長。"],["涂委員權吉：白局長，勞保局有發一份公文，我想請問一下白局長，針對說明的第四點，局長可以幫我們唸一遍嗎？說明的第四點，你看得到嗎？"],["白局長麗真：可以。"],["涂委員權吉：可以幫我們唸一下嗎？"],["白局長麗真：報告委員，我們的第四點是提到，至於勞資雙方如對僱傭關係存續期間之認定有爭議，應向工作所在地之縣（市）政府勞工行政機關申請調處或循司法途徑解決以弭爭議。這個主要是源自於，現在針對勞資爭議有一個勞資爭議處理法，所以我們以這樣的一個規定在這邊去敘明。"],["涂委員權吉：所以他這邊有講嘛，僱傭關係存續期間的認定，還有向工作場所縣市政府勞工行政機關申請調處的意思，也就是照勞保局講的，這個契約的性質，它為定期或不定期，應該是勞政主管機關的責任，對不對？"],["白局長麗真：跟委員報告，我們這邊主要是依勞資爭議處理法，針對勞資雙方如果有爭議，他們依循的法令不見得是勞動基準法，就是在勞資之間有爭議的話，都可以依途徑來處理。"],["涂委員權吉：所以依勞保局第四點所表示的，就是僱傭關係的存續，這部分由勞工行政機關來申請調處，因此這部分是勞動主管機關來負責處理嘛！你就針對第四點，對不對？你的意思是不是這樣？"],["白局長麗真：如果他要勞資爭議調解可以找地方政府。"],["涂委員權吉：對啊！就是由勞政主管機關，中央是勞動部，地方就是縣市政府，對不對？沒有錯吧！"],["白局長麗真：是。"],["涂委員權吉：沒關係，你就針對你的回答就好，你不要緊張。","我再請問一下勞動關係司黃副司長，針對航港局，我們有發文函詢，有關勞動契約的爭議，勞動契約爭議應該是勞動關係司在負責的業管單位嘛！"],["黃副司長琦雅：勞動契約章是我們勞動關係司。"],["涂委員權吉：對，我想請問一下副司長，針對航港局的回復，我們來討論一下，你看有沒有什麼錯誤，或者你覺得它的公文回復有什麼問題的地方。針對這個公文，我們把它陳述出來，針對船員法是否明文定義船員法中何為定期契約、不定期契約？航港局針對這個問題的回復是，經查船員法及相關子法，並無定義定期契約或不定期契約。也就是說，船員法不管是本身或相關子法並沒有明確定義，這部分它的回復是這樣，沒有錯吧？你有看到公文是這樣回復嘛！第二點，船員法僱傭契約中，定期契約、不定期契約的定義載明於中華民國哪一部法律中？業管機關部會、單位為何？航港局的回復是，載於勞基法第九條，主管機關在中央為勞動部；在直轄市為直轄市政府；在縣（市）為縣（市）政府。所以這部分跟剛剛勞保局的回復也是一樣，因此針對船員法的僱傭契約，它就表示在中華民國法律就是勞基法第九條。也就是說，主管機關在中央是勞動部，在地方的就是縣市政府，這是航港局的回復。沒關係，如果你覺得航港局的回復有問題，你也可以提出。然後第三點，船員法中受僱用之船員，針對其僱傭契約實質為定期契約、不定期契約有相關爭議時，救濟、投訴機關為何？航港局的回復是，船員對於僱傭契約之契約形式如有爭議，勞資雙方可透過勞動主管機關進行協調或透過民事訴訟。也就是說，在中央可以透過勞動部，在地方可以透過縣市政府，這個剛剛已經講過。針對航港局的回復，副司長覺得它的回復有沒有問題？"],["黃副司長琦雅：謝謝委員，其實此時此刻我們也針對剛剛委員關心的議題正式請交通部函復給我們，我們兩個部會之間會針對這樣的一個議題進行討論……"],["涂委員權吉：不是，它已經函復了，已經函復主管機關在中央就是勞動部，地方就是縣市政府，我只要正確說目前是不是這樣，以後你們要怎麼協調是以後的事，現在就是這樣子，對不對？"],["黃副司長琦雅：因為……"],["涂委員權吉：現在的法令就是這樣嘛！航港局的回復就是這樣啊！"],["黃副司長琦雅：委員提到航港局這邊提的，因為交通部本部還沒有回復給我們相關的每一個條文，勞動法、船員勞動權益的問題，所以我們會儘速在做。"],["涂委員權吉：我的意思是說，以現在……你不要繞圈子，現在航港局的回復有沒有問題？"],["黃副司長琦雅：因為這個部分在法院也有一些看法，實務上面到最高法院跟監察院也都有看法。"],["涂委員權吉：所以現在看得到的法令就是這些問題，這些勞動契約就很明確提到船員法沒有明確訂定定期或不定期啊！載明於中華民國哪一部法令？它表示就是勞基法第九條，主管機關在中央就是勞動部，地方就是縣市政府。剛剛勞保局也講，然後現在航港局也回復這樣，也就是說，其實這個回復都是一致的，所以是沒有問題，而且是以公文回復，不是私底下聊天喔！"],["黃副司長琦雅：跟委員報告，我們這幾年來其實都有跟交通部溝通……"],["涂委員權吉：沒關係，我只要你認定這個文是沒有問題的就好。","我接下來請一下何部長。何部長，針對上次質詢過後我們有一些疑義，我後來也請相關單位來了解一下，這是上次我們質詢的影片，我們先放一下，看你上次是怎麼回復本席的。","（播放影片）"],["涂委員權吉：部長，因為我那時候想說部長很專業，所以我們很相信，但是後來我還是要下去查證，可是我發現，你看剛剛勞保局跟航港局的回復，勞動關係司也講，目前航港局的回復是沒有問題的，照這樣來講，好像部長的回復跟航港局的回復還有勞保局的回復基本上好像不太一致。"],["何部長佩珊：沒有不一致，委員，它跟勞保局就是表示……"],["涂委員權吉：你上次有跟我講這是船員法啊！"],["何部長佩珊：勞資爭議處理法，如果勞僱關係之間有爭論的話，就依勞資爭議處理法……"],["涂委員權吉：我上一次有問你喔！我上次是有問你……"],["何部長佩珊：讓勞工局去調解或是法院去認定，那因為……"],["涂委員權吉：我上次有特別問你僱傭關係的契約性質，定期跟不定期是由誰來界定，你說不是勞動部界定……"],["何部長佩珊：確實不是我。"],["涂委員權吉：然後你還跟我講這是船員法界定。"],["何部長佩珊：確實不是我，對。"],["涂委員權吉：那……"],["何部長佩珊：確實不是我，委員……"],["涂委員權吉：那是航港局說謊嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我跟您報告，交通部現在正在擬定不定期契約範本……"],["涂委員權吉：報告部長……"],["何部長佩珊：船員法裡面的不定期契約範本……"],["涂委員權吉：但是我不管你們以後要怎麼處理……"],["何部長佩珊：所以船員法裡面有定期契約，目前現行是定期契約，目前沒有不定期契約範本，他們現在正在研擬。"],["涂委員權吉：部長，剛剛我有講喔！"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我會請……"],["涂委員權吉：航港局回復它沒有定義喔！"],["何部長佩珊：我們可以把它的不定期契約範本提供給你，好嗎？委員……"],["涂委員權吉：不是，部長……"],["何部長佩珊：定期契約或不定期契約，如果……"],["涂委員權吉：部長，這個影片跟剛剛我們問的，我相信大家都看得非常非常清楚，你直接就回復，我問你僱傭關係的契約性質，定期跟不定期到底是怎麼界定，你從頭到尾都說跟勞動部沒有關係，你說這是船員法，你還跟我講船員法是特別法……"],["何部長佩珊：是啊！"],["涂委員權吉：航港局也直接表示……"],["何部長佩珊：是啊！船員法第十三條……"],["涂委員權吉：船員法從頭到尾就不定義定期契約跟不定期契約，而且還直接表示這個在勞基法第九條就已經有載明，所有勞動契約的主管機關，中央為勞動部，地方為縣市政府，我不知道部長現在在爭什麼？"],["何部長佩珊：不是委員，我唸船員法第十二條給您聽：「雇用人僱用船員，應簽訂書面僱傭契約，送請航政機關備查後，受僱船員始得在船上服務。僱傭契約終止時，亦同。」第十三條：「雇用人僱用船員僱傭契約範本，由航政機關定之。」所以這個僱傭的關係……"],["涂委員權吉：這個我知道。"],["何部長佩珊：它裡面定期或不定期都是船員法去界定的。"],["涂委員權吉：好，部長，我跟你講……"],["何部長佩珊：目前船員法……"],["涂委員權吉：這個我告訴你，他們怎麼跟……假設今天這是中鋼運通，船員跟中鋼運通怎麼簽定期或不定期，那是他跟企業的事情，但是今天我問你的是已經發生糾紛了，勞動部是主管機關，你就要有這個擔當，不是把這個球推回航港局，航港局就跟你表示它不是主管機關，不是由它認定的啊！"],["何部長佩珊：不是，委員，我跟您報告……"],["涂委員權吉：結果你把球踢回去，航港局就表示這不是由它認定，是勞動部認定的啊！"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我跟您報告，第一個，該直接去處理的是高雄市政府勞工局，如果沒有的話，他們現在在民事法院訴訟中，而且已經打到最高法院去了，這兩個……"],["涂委員權吉：我剛剛有講勞動局沒錯啊！"],["何部長佩珊：對，可是高雄市政府……"],["涂委員權吉：我們有講中央是勞動部，地方是縣市政府啊！"],["何部長佩珊：是。"],["涂委員權吉：可是你明確告訴我說這已經是勞資糾紛，僱傭關係的契約性質我問你如何界定定期跟不定期，你連界定都不敢界定，統統推給法院。"],["何部長佩珊：委員，界定不是我們的權力。"],["涂委員權吉：以後你們行政單位所有事情都推給法院，統統不用處理了。"],["何部長佩珊：界定真的不是我的權力，我必須尊重司法，尊重法院的見解。"],["涂委員權吉：這個勞基法已經寫得很清楚了，所以航港局的回復，我就說那很簡單啊！"],["何部長佩珊：所以委員……"],["涂委員權吉：不然就是航港局說謊，不然就是部長說謊，這麼簡單。"],["何部長佩珊：我們沒有誰說謊啦，我們講的都是事實，因為勞基法是普通法。"],["涂委員權吉：你們講的就不一致啊！"],["何部長佩珊：不是！委員，勞基法是普通法。"],["涂委員權吉：然後碰到問題，大家都說沒說謊，還是立委說謊？"],["何部長佩珊：我一再強調，勞基法是普通法，船員必須適用船員法，這個特別法優先，所以船員法的規定會比勞基法更優先適用。"],["涂委員權吉：你那時候講船員法是特別法，那勞基法是什麼法？"],["何部長佩珊：普通法。"],["涂委員權吉：那我問你，基本上，本來就是後法優於前法，勞基法應該也是特別法啊！"],["何部長佩珊：勞基法是普通法。"],["涂委員權吉：勞基法是特別法還是普通法？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，因為所有的法院都認定，他必須以船員法的特別法……"],["涂委員權吉：副司長，勞基法是特別法還是普通法？"],["黃副司長琦雅：船員法是特別法，只要船員法規定的……"],["涂委員權吉：船員法是特別法，勞基法是什麼法？"],["黃副司長琦雅：依照勞動基準法第一條規定……"],["涂委員權吉：勞基法是什麼法？"],["黃副司長琦雅：勞動基準法是適用僱傭關係的普通法，勞基法第一條明文規定……"],["涂委員權吉：所以你講勞基法不是特別法，對不對？"],["黃副司長琦雅：是，船員法是勞基法的特別法。"],["涂委員權吉：好，船員法是特別法，勞基法不是特別法，那重點後法本來就是優於前法，當然是勞基法比船員法大啊！今天他發生爭議的時候，你怎麼全部推光光，然後……"],["黃副司長琦雅：跟委員報告，勞基法第一條就明文規定，如果有特別法的話，要依特別法，這是勞基法第一條的明文規定。"],["涂委員權吉：好，我希望、我相信，現在我們要講一個明確的問題，很簡單，航港局的回復剛剛我們也講得很清楚了，部長的回復跟它的回復根本就是完全相反的，所以我希望航港局跟部長給我們一個明確的答案，我不希望本席在這邊質詢的時候，部長給我們的答案跟我們跟航港局要的回復是完全不一樣的，我真的很想講，我不知道為什麼我還聽到之前執政黨的立委說，你們勞動部有藐視國會的情形，所以我希望這個事情能夠讓我們了解清楚，而且我認為這很明確啦，部長你的答復跟航港局的回復根本是天壤之別，完全是相反的，然後你說是一致的，我看不出哪裡一致，完全都是不一樣的！"],["何部長佩珊：委員，本來我們兩個部會在這部分的認知有差距，是這樣。"],["涂委員權吉：對啊！問題是我們得到的答案都是不一樣的，你怎麼協調那是以後的事，現在你給我們的答復就是不一樣的。"],["何部長佩珊：好，謝謝。"],["主席：請部長回去溝通好再跟他說明啦。","跟涂委員報告一下，如果要提藐視國會是要提案的，沒那麼簡單。好，謝謝涂委員。","接續我們請蔡易餘委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":160,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-26,19-1","speakers":["蘇清泉","黃秀芳","邱議瑩","林月琴","王正旭","林淑芬","吳春城","陳昭姿","陳亭妃","鄭正鈐","廖偉翔","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","賴瑞隆","翁曉玲","劉建國","吳宗憲","洪孟楷","黃珊珊","林倩綺","林國成","涂權吉","蔡易餘","羅廷瑋","麥玉珍","楊曜","盧縣一","張嘉郡","陳超明","林憶君","邱志偉","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":63,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1139001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查委員吳春城等42人擬具「壯世代政策與產業發展促進法草案」案","agenda_id":"1139001_00002"}}}