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{\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 747.476, \"end\": 747.596, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 747.596, \"end\": 747.616, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 747.616, \"end\": 747.636, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 747.636, \"end\": 747.656, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 751.303, \"end\": 751.323, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,245 --> 00:00:10,006\n謝謝主席本席想邀請交通部長跟公平會主委好陳部長、李主委\n\n2\n00:00:18,627 --> 00:00:35,352\n謝謝兩位我們繼續來討論外送平台的運費大家都非常期待它這個公司能夠透明化因此到目前為止交通部日前預告修正的汽車運輸業管理規則汽車運輸業\n\n3\n00:00:38,393 --> 00:00:52,523\n客運運費的運價準則其中最重要的今天大家都非常關心的也就是外送平台的新興行業運價適用規定你們現在是在預告當中作為未來業者在收取運費的依據以及每一筆\n\n4\n00:01:04,592 --> 00:01:15,762\n訂單運費依照每車公里基本運價接運送距離計算其中包含起程費、續程費、得以加計等待費、各個樓層\n\n5\n00:01:23,409 --> 00:01:42,289\n樓層費、還有夜間加急的運費以及春節運費大概你們目前所預告的是如此所以交通部你們也多方的跟業者、跟小保官、跟外送平台工會多方的去研討那麼到目前為止外界有說要以60塊為基準\n\n6\n00:01:45,271 --> 00:02:07,481\n但是你們立即否決你們立即聲明說還沒有還沒有這回事包括外送員工會的期待沒有你們馬上說了你們馬上說了你們否認了說還沒有還沒有定案這個我們就是希望這個理性的去討論那請教現在的方向現在的方向會漲價嗎這第一個那你們費率大概討論會什麼時候出來\n\n7\n00:02:13,972 --> 00:02:31,830\n報告委員當然我們現在正在那個預告期所以我們的法制的過程都還沒完備所以什麼時候可以有這個所以這個預告非常重要就是大家有任何意見趕快再提出來但是坊間已經有給你一個數字那當然你們否決了我能夠跟委員報告的是說方向\n\n8\n00:02:33,892 --> 00:02:44,661\n會不會漲?第一個我們是朝透明化的方向來走先把公式先制定出來這是第一個方向第二個方向不一定會漲價漲價是一個假議題不一定會漲價漲價是一個假議題因為到時候即便是漲價是一個假議題\n\n9\n00:02:50,645 --> 00:03:13,400\n對即便是有一個公示公示出來了之後設定的是叫做上限是上限而且沒有下限當沒有下限的狀況底下到時候的業者要收多少費用是在我們上限以下都可以所以現在的免運費還是可以做他甚至可以直接做到免運費這都是他的優惠他的權利所以你是訂一個這個天花板對天花板只有天花板\n\n10\n00:03:13,660 --> 00:03:42,112\n所以這個也就是說過去我們外送的費用呢它多數是以供需以供需去定價它有尖峰用餐的時間那尖峰用餐它會比較高那離峰的時候有優惠這個價格那再請教我們訂定的費率會取消優惠價格嗎不會我們只會訂上限所以下限即便是免運費運費算零都是可以接受的\n\n11\n00:03:42,512 --> 00:03:53,949\n好預問算明都是可以接受那麼業者會不會我們是緊張也就是你如果說這個價格的方面會不會運價轉送到消費者\n\n12\n00:03:58,067 --> 00:04:25,468\n目前的審查的機制我們是五方包含了消費者我們大概是找消機會另外就是外送員工會還有平台業者我們也會找還有就是地方政府因為每個地方要因地制宜那最後才是交通部的代表也會參與我們會最後一起來制定那這個部分當然運費的部分對於一個消費者來說他要買一個東西要運然後要製作製作的費用當然是消費者要吸收\n\n13\n00:04:25,908 --> 00:04:50,562\n那運費也會由消費者來吸收但問題是我們這次訂的是上限不會讓消費者讓他有超過上限的一個運費但往下是沒有問題的所以消費者的權益我們也可以保障當運價沒有透明的時候消費者到底被收了多少運價其實消費者不曉得所以我們希望透過透明的過程當中保障消費者的權益\n\n14\n00:04:50,762 --> 00:05:10,518\n所以如果依照部長你現在的回答是希望能夠達到五贏的這個政策這是理想那所以再請教你們預告之後接下來動作怎麼做什麼時間可以把這個方案正式公告我們現在正在收攏各方的意見你們的時程\n\n15\n00:05:11,833 --> 00:05:22,577\n當大家的意見比較有一個共識的時候大概我們就可以往法制化的方向來推進但是這個時程我沒有辦法在這邊跟委員報告因為各方的意見我們還在收攏現在都還不知道你收攏也會有時間啊我到底時間要訂多久啊怎麼會沒有時間表呢\n\n16\n00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:47,376\n我們希望能夠盡快但是正方的意見目前比如說我們做任何事情你一定有你的KPI指數啊我收容時間一個月、兩個月、三個月接下來我們法制化我預計要多久因為這個已經是社會面向非常需求每天生活必須用到的\n\n17\n00:05:47,876 --> 00:06:07,265\n這個部分我跟委員報告一下這裡面有兩個層面的課題第一個層面就是那個架構跟這個項目就現在在做的法制化的這個工作要完成之後那有這個公司的依據之後後面才會本期了解內容也就是希望要得到我們就誠如剛剛主席所說的我們一定要知道你的時間點啊\n\n18\n00:06:08,886 --> 00:06:29,274\n你要有一個指標我什麼時候要做什麼我什麼時候要做什麼你不能無限期呀因為這是民眾每一天都會都會都會touch到的部長立法院的委員們大家都很關心都希望趕快往前推進那我們的方向也是希望趕快往前推進你的方向你一定要有制定一個時間點嗎我們剛才在講的消費者也有共識來部長\n\n19\n00:06:34,834 --> 00:06:53,442\n請聽清楚大家都在討論因為你現在是預告所以你預告你會有多久時間收集資料資料收集好你要朝向法治化你一定有一個時程表嘛你不能從早上我從早上聽到現在都沒有答案啊對不對我們不是問你多少錢\n\n20\n00:06:55,325 --> 00:07:03,425\n比例多少不是我們只要你行政部門的時間點如果連時間點都沒有那我們今天整天都白問的\n\n21\n00:07:05,138 --> 00:07:31,783\n請說明是跟委員報告預告期間就是說各方的意見的話其實我們收容了所以已經訂在下週三10月30號就是把就是說相關的包括這個消基會收容的資料對對對在做整理那因為整理之後就是說當然因為可能就是要達成共識跟委員原來預設的透明化的目標所以就是說比如說在下週三沒有達成這些共識哪些的起義的課題我們會繼續再做一個開會再做一個確認\n\n22\n00:07:34,165 --> 00:07:34,566\n請政府有責任的去規劃\n\n23\n00:07:50,019 --> 00:08:08,658\n10月30我們今天聽到這個聲音預告就是到10月30收集這些資料你們再下一個動作對不對那你請把你們接下來要怎麼做的時程也請一份資料給本席好嗎你們去預估一下所以接下來公平會在後面來請你往前\n\n24\n00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:35,158\n剛剛交通部長說了他們要訂一個系列在這邊那針對於這個兩大我們的這個烏貝伊跟忽編達那麼是不是會同意現在是在審議中那是不是會同意合併我們在經濟委員會也討論過了很多次所以本席要請教這一段時間努力來你們現在的進度\n\n25\n00:08:37,259 --> 00:08:55,477\n到底什麼時候可以告訴民眾會不會合因為民眾所怕的也就是萬一如果怪獸產生的時候那只有一家只有一家他定的價格那沒有人有辦法去控管的時候那民眾會\n\n26\n00:08:57,039 --> 00:08:57,199\n委員會主席\n\n27\n00:09:14,837 --> 00:09:17,119\n從這個案子每一方都非常的關心消費者非常的害怕\n\n28\n00:09:42,041 --> 00:09:42,465\n如果被這個壟斷\n\n29\n00:09:45,188 --> 00:10:11,610\n外送平台人員的一個基本權益這是我們一定要捍衛的一定要捍衛的因為他們太辛苦了但是在這樣的一個情況之下你到底11月8號是你收集請他們補件那你預計會在什麼時候告訴社會大眾到底同意不同意跟委員說明我們是委員會制的所以文件期備會進入委員會去討論\n\n30\n00:10:13,872 --> 00:10:34,969\n當然不要跟我講過程你一個社會重大關注的議題你總是不能無限期吧主委如果以我的認知你是明年1月份任期到吧主委我的任期到1月底對啊那明年的1月底嘛那你會不會在你的任期內去完成\n\n31\n00:10:36,857 --> 00:11:06,177\n告訴社會大眾到底同意不同意當然是合一致啊但是你要集中啊你也不能無限期啊一個是委員會討論的情形這麼重大的一件事情一定要經過委員會充分的討論做出事切的決定當然當然當然我們沒有辦法去干涉這個內容但是我們要講社會的需求給主委你了解我想我們委員也都了解社會對這個案件的關切那我想責務龐代法那既然委員都了解社會的關切那更能夠有積極的腳步啊\n\n32\n00:11:07,178 --> 00:11:11,849\n那我期盼能夠在你的任內去告訴社會大眾你們的經過委員會的決議是什麼\n\n33\n00:11:18,228 --> 00:11:40,745\n朝這個方向努力好嗎這個案件我們一定會審慎能快就快這是我們向來對於人民的申報結合案因為我們深怕店家、消費者以及外送員他只能夠被動的面對獨佔者所提出的條件那就是陳如本席所說的是武術\n\n34\n00:11:42,026 --> 00:12:03,713\n台灣社會不應當有這樣的現象所以我再次強調因為我覺得我們政府做事情總是要有一個時間點那也不能無限期所以請你們積極我希望在你的任內去完成告訴社會大眾到底這個答案是什麼讓大家安心好不好因為我們現在消費者也很緊張店家也很緊張平台也緊張啊所以主委\n\n35\n00:12:12,045 --> 00:12:27,656\n你的看法呢我想這個案子確實從兩家事業向公平會遞件申報以來各界都非常關切我們對這一些其實都了解那在這個程序上文件齊備了該當怎麼處理一定會\n\n36\n00:12:31,303 --> 00:12:31,323\n好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3245\t10006\t謝謝主席本席想邀請交通部長跟公平會主委好陳部長、李主委\n18627\t35352\t謝謝兩位我們繼續來討論外送平台的運費大家都非常期待它這個公司能夠透明化因此到目前為止交通部日前預告修正的汽車運輸業管理規則 汽車運輸業\n38393\t52523\t客運運費的運價準則其中最重要的今天大家都非常關心的也就是外送平台的新興行業運價適用規定你們現在是在預告當中作為未來業者在收取運費的依據以及每一筆\n64592\t75762\t訂單運費依照每車公里基本運價接運送距離計算其中包含起程費、續程費、得以加計等待費、各個樓層\n83409\t102289\t樓層費、還有夜間加急的運費以及春節運費大概你們目前所預告的是如此所以交通部你們也多方的跟業者、跟小保官、跟外送平台工會多方的去研討那麼到目前為止外界有說要以60塊為基準\n105271\t127481\t但是你們立即否決你們立即聲明說還沒有還沒有這回事包括外送員工會的期待沒有你們馬上說了你們馬上說了你們否認了說還沒有還沒有定案這個我們就是希望這個理性的去討論那請教現在的方向現在的方向會漲價嗎這第一個那你們費率大概討論會什麼時候出來\n133972\t151830\t報告委員當然我們現在正在那個預告期所以我們的法制的過程都還沒完備所以什麼時候可以有這個所以這個預告非常重要就是大家有任何意見趕快再提出來但是坊間已經有給你一個數字那當然你們否決了我能夠跟委員報告的是說方向\n153892\t164661\t會不會漲?第一個我們是朝透明化的方向來走先把公式先制定出來這是第一個方向第二個方向不一定會漲價漲價是一個假議題不一定會漲價漲價是一個假議題因為到時候即便是漲價是一個假議題\n170645\t193400\t對即便是有一個公示公示出來了之後設定的是叫做上限是上限而且沒有下限當沒有下限的狀況底下到時候的業者要收多少費用是在我們上限以下都可以所以現在的免運費還是可以做他甚至可以直接做到免運費這都是他的優惠他的權利所以你是訂一個這個天花板對天花板只有天花板\n193660\t222112\t所以這個也就是說過去我們外送的費用呢它多數是以供需以供需去定價它有尖峰用餐的時間那尖峰用餐它會比較高那離峰的時候有優惠這個價格那再請教我們訂定的費率會取消優惠價格嗎不會我們只會訂上限所以下限即便是免運費運費算零都是可以接受的\n222512\t233949\t好 預問算明都是可以接受那麼業者會不會 我們是緊張也就是你如果說這個價格的方面會不會運價轉送到消費者\n238067\t265468\t目前的審查的機制我們是五方包含了消費者我們大概是找消機會另外就是外送員工會還有平台業者我們也會找還有就是地方政府因為每個地方要因地制宜那最後才是交通部的代表也會參與我們會最後一起來制定那這個部分當然運費的部分對於一個消費者來說他要買一個東西要運然後要製作製作的費用當然是消費者要吸收\n265908\t290562\t那運費也會由消費者來吸收但問題是我們這次訂的是上限不會讓消費者讓他有超過上限的一個運費但往下是沒有問題的所以消費者的權益我們也可以保障當運價沒有透明的時候消費者到底被收了多少運價其實消費者不曉得所以我們希望透過透明的過程當中保障消費者的權益\n290762\t310518\t所以如果依照部長你現在的回答是希望能夠達到五贏的這個政策這是理想那所以再請教你們預告之後接下來動作怎麼做什麼時間可以把這個方案正式公告我們現在正在收攏各方的意見你們的時程\n311833\t322577\t當大家的意見比較有一個共識的時候大概我們就可以往法制化的方向來推進但是這個時程我沒有辦法在這邊跟委員報告因為各方的意見我們還在收攏現在都還不知道你收攏也會有時間啊我到底時間要訂多久啊怎麼會沒有時間表呢\n330160\t347376\t我們希望能夠盡快但是正方的意見目前比如說我們做任何事情你一定有你的KPI指數啊我收容時間一個月、兩個月、三個月接下來我們法制化我預計要多久因為這個已經是社會面向非常需求每天生活必須用到的\n347876\t367265\t這個部分我跟委員報告一下這裡面有兩個層面的課題第一個層面就是那個架構跟這個項目就現在在做的法制化的這個工作要完成之後那有這個公司的依據之後後面才會本期了解內容也就是希望要得到我們就誠如剛剛主席所說的我們一定要知道你的時間點啊\n368886\t389274\t你要有一個指標我什麼時候要做什麼我什麼時候要做什麼你不能無限期呀因為這是民眾每一天都會都會都會touch到的部長立法院的委員們大家都很關心都希望趕快往前推進那我們的方向也是希望趕快往前推進你的方向你一定要有制定一個時間點嗎我們剛才在講的消費者也有共識來部長\n394834\t413442\t請聽清楚大家都在討論因為你現在是預告所以你預告你會有多久時間收集資料資料收集好你要朝向法治化你一定有一個時程表嘛你不能從早上我從早上聽到現在都沒有答案啊 對不對我們不是問你多少錢\n415325\t423425\t比例多少 不是 我們只要你行政部門的時間點如果連時間點都沒有 那我們今天整天都白問的\n425138\t451783\t請說明是 跟委員報告預告期間就是說各方的意見的話其實我們收容了所以已經訂在下週三10月30號就是把就是說相關的包括這個消基會收容的資料對對對在做整理那因為整理之後就是說當然因為可能就是要達成共識跟委員原來預設的透明化的目標所以就是說比如說在下週三沒有達成這些共識哪些的起義的課題我們會繼續再做一個開會再做一個確認\n454165\t454566\t請政府有責任的去規劃\n470019\t488658\t10月30我們今天聽到這個聲音預告就是到10月30收集這些資料你們再下一個動作對不對那你請把你們接下來要怎麼做的時程也請一份資料給本席好嗎你們去預估一下所以接下來公平會在後面來請你往前\n490320\t515158\t剛剛交通部長說了他們要訂一個系列在這邊那針對於這個兩大我們的這個烏貝伊跟忽編達那麼是不是會同意現在是在審議中那是不是會同意合併我們在經濟委員會也討論過了很多次所以本席要請教這一段時間努力來你們現在的進度\n517259\t535477\t到底什麼時候可以告訴民眾會不會合因為民眾所怕的也就是萬一如果怪獸產生的時候那只有一家只有一家他定的價格那沒有人有辦法去控管的時候那民眾會\n537039\t537199\t委員會主席\n554837\t557119\t從這個案子每一方都非常的關心消費者非常的害怕\n582041\t582465\t如果被這個壟斷\n585188\t611610\t外送平台人員的一個基本權益這是我們一定要捍衛的一定要捍衛的因為他們太辛苦了但是在這樣的一個情況之下你到底11月8號是你收集請他們補件那你預計會在什麼時候告訴社會大眾到底同意不同意跟委員說明我們是委員會制的所以文件期備會進入委員會去討論\n613872\t634969\t當然不要跟我講過程你一個社會重大關注的議題你總是不能無限期吧主委 如果以我的認知你是明年1月份任期到吧主委 我的任期到1月底對啊 那明年的1月底嘛那你會不會在你的任期內去完成\n636857\t666177\t告訴社會大眾到底同意不同意當然是合一致啊但是你要集中啊你也不能無限期啊一個是委員會討論的情形這麼重大的一件事情一定要經過委員會充分的討論做出事切的決定當然當然當然我們沒有辦法去干涉這個內容但是我們要講社會的需求給主委你了解我想我們委員也都了解社會對這個案件的關切那我想責務龐代法那既然委員都了解社會的關切那更能夠有積極的腳步啊\n667178\t671849\t那我期盼能夠在你的任內去告訴社會大眾你們的經過委員會的決議是什麼\n678228\t700745\t朝這個方向努力好嗎這個案件我們一定會審慎能快就快這是我們向來對於人民的申報結合案因為我們深怕店家、消費者以及外送員他只能夠被動的面對獨佔者所提出的條件那就是陳如本席所說的是武術\n702026\t723713\t台灣社會不應當有這樣的現象所以我再次強調因為我覺得我們政府做事情總是要有一個時間點那也不能無限期所以請你們積極我希望在你的任內去完成告訴社會大眾到底這個答案是什麼讓大家安心好不好因為我們現在消費者也很緊張店家也很緊張平台也緊張啊所以 主委\n732045\t747656\t你的看法呢我想這個案子確實從兩家事業向公平會遞件申報以來各界都非常關切我們對這一些其實都了解那在這個程序上文件齊備了該當怎麼處理一定會\n751303\t751323\t好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席本席想邀請交通部長跟公平會主委好陳部長、李主委\n謝謝兩位我們繼續來討論外送平台的運費大家都非常期待它這個公司能夠透明化因此到目前為止交通部日前預告修正的汽車運輸業管理規則 汽車運輸業\n客運運費的運價準則其中最重要的今天大家都非常關心的也就是外送平台的新興行業運價適用規定你們現在是在預告當中作為未來業者在收取運費的依據以及每一筆\n訂單運費依照每車公里基本運價接運送距離計算其中包含起程費、續程費、得以加計等待費、各個樓層\n樓層費、還有夜間加急的運費以及春節運費大概你們目前所預告的是如此所以交通部你們也多方的跟業者、跟小保官、跟外送平台工會多方的去研討那麼到目前為止外界有說要以60塊為基準\n但是你們立即否決你們立即聲明說還沒有還沒有這回事包括外送員工會的期待沒有你們馬上說了你們馬上說了你們否認了說還沒有還沒有定案這個我們就是希望這個理性的去討論那請教現在的方向現在的方向會漲價嗎這第一個那你們費率大概討論會什麼時候出來\n報告委員當然我們現在正在那個預告期所以我們的法制的過程都還沒完備所以什麼時候可以有這個所以這個預告非常重要就是大家有任何意見趕快再提出來但是坊間已經有給你一個數字那當然你們否決了我能夠跟委員報告的是說方向\n會不會漲?第一個我們是朝透明化的方向來走先把公式先制定出來這是第一個方向第二個方向不一定會漲價漲價是一個假議題不一定會漲價漲價是一個假議題因為到時候即便是漲價是一個假議題\n對即便是有一個公示公示出來了之後設定的是叫做上限是上限而且沒有下限當沒有下限的狀況底下到時候的業者要收多少費用是在我們上限以下都可以所以現在的免運費還是可以做他甚至可以直接做到免運費這都是他的優惠他的權利所以你是訂一個這個天花板對天花板只有天花板\n所以這個也就是說過去我們外送的費用呢它多數是以供需以供需去定價它有尖峰用餐的時間那尖峰用餐它會比較高那離峰的時候有優惠這個價格那再請教我們訂定的費率會取消優惠價格嗎不會我們只會訂上限所以下限即便是免運費運費算零都是可以接受的\n好 預問算明都是可以接受那麼業者會不會 我們是緊張也就是你如果說這個價格的方面會不會運價轉送到消費者\n目前的審查的機制我們是五方包含了消費者我們大概是找消機會另外就是外送員工會還有平台業者我們也會找還有就是地方政府因為每個地方要因地制宜那最後才是交通部的代表也會參與我們會最後一起來制定那這個部分當然運費的部分對於一個消費者來說他要買一個東西要運然後要製作製作的費用當然是消費者要吸收\n那運費也會由消費者來吸收但問題是我們這次訂的是上限不會讓消費者讓他有超過上限的一個運費但往下是沒有問題的所以消費者的權益我們也可以保障當運價沒有透明的時候消費者到底被收了多少運價其實消費者不曉得所以我們希望透過透明的過程當中保障消費者的權益\n所以如果依照部長你現在的回答是希望能夠達到五贏的這個政策這是理想那所以再請教你們預告之後接下來動作怎麼做什麼時間可以把這個方案正式公告我們現在正在收攏各方的意見你們的時程\n當大家的意見比較有一個共識的時候大概我們就可以往法制化的方向來推進但是這個時程我沒有辦法在這邊跟委員報告因為各方的意見我們還在收攏現在都還不知道你收攏也會有時間啊我到底時間要訂多久啊怎麼會沒有時間表呢\n我們希望能夠盡快但是正方的意見目前比如說我們做任何事情你一定有你的KPI指數啊我收容時間一個月、兩個月、三個月接下來我們法制化我預計要多久因為這個已經是社會面向非常需求每天生活必須用到的\n這個部分我跟委員報告一下這裡面有兩個層面的課題第一個層面就是那個架構跟這個項目就現在在做的法制化的這個工作要完成之後那有這個公司的依據之後後面才會本期了解內容也就是希望要得到我們就誠如剛剛主席所說的我們一定要知道你的時間點啊\n你要有一個指標我什麼時候要做什麼我什麼時候要做什麼你不能無限期呀因為這是民眾每一天都會都會都會touch到的部長立法院的委員們大家都很關心都希望趕快往前推進那我們的方向也是希望趕快往前推進你的方向你一定要有制定一個時間點嗎我們剛才在講的消費者也有共識來部長\n請聽清楚大家都在討論因為你現在是預告所以你預告你會有多久時間收集資料資料收集好你要朝向法治化你一定有一個時程表嘛你不能從早上我從早上聽到現在都沒有答案啊 對不對我們不是問你多少錢\n比例多少 不是 我們只要你行政部門的時間點如果連時間點都沒有 那我們今天整天都白問的\n請說明是 跟委員報告預告期間就是說各方的意見的話其實我們收容了所以已經訂在下週三10月30號就是把就是說相關的包括這個消基會收容的資料對對對在做整理那因為整理之後就是說當然因為可能就是要達成共識跟委員原來預設的透明化的目標所以就是說比如說在下週三沒有達成這些共識哪些的起義的課題我們會繼續再做一個開會再做一個確認\n請政府有責任的去規劃\n10月30我們今天聽到這個聲音預告就是到10月30收集這些資料你們再下一個動作對不對那你請把你們接下來要怎麼做的時程也請一份資料給本席好嗎你們去預估一下所以接下來公平會在後面來請你往前\n剛剛交通部長說了他們要訂一個系列在這邊那針對於這個兩大我們的這個烏貝伊跟忽編達那麼是不是會同意現在是在審議中那是不是會同意合併我們在經濟委員會也討論過了很多次所以本席要請教這一段時間努力來你們現在的進度\n到底什麼時候可以告訴民眾會不會合因為民眾所怕的也就是萬一如果怪獸產生的時候那只有一家只有一家他定的價格那沒有人有辦法去控管的時候那民眾會\n委員會主席\n從這個案子每一方都非常的關心消費者非常的害怕\n如果被這個壟斷\n外送平台人員的一個基本權益這是我們一定要捍衛的一定要捍衛的因為他們太辛苦了但是在這樣的一個情況之下你到底11月8號是你收集請他們補件那你預計會在什麼時候告訴社會大眾到底同意不同意跟委員說明我們是委員會制的所以文件期備會進入委員會去討論\n當然不要跟我講過程你一個社會重大關注的議題你總是不能無限期吧主委 如果以我的認知你是明年1月份任期到吧主委 我的任期到1月底對啊 那明年的1月底嘛那你會不會在你的任期內去完成\n告訴社會大眾到底同意不同意當然是合一致啊但是你要集中啊你也不能無限期啊一個是委員會討論的情形這麼重大的一件事情一定要經過委員會充分的討論做出事切的決定當然當然當然我們沒有辦法去干涉這個內容但是我們要講社會的需求給主委你了解我想我們委員也都了解社會對這個案件的關切那我想責務龐代法那既然委員都了解社會的關切那更能夠有積極的腳步啊\n那我期盼能夠在你的任內去告訴社會大眾你們的經過委員會的決議是什麼\n朝這個方向努力好嗎這個案件我們一定會審慎能快就快這是我們向來對於人民的申報結合案因為我們深怕店家、消費者以及外送員他只能夠被動的面對獨佔者所提出的條件那就是陳如本席所說的是武術\n台灣社會不應當有這樣的現象所以我再次強調因為我覺得我們政府做事情總是要有一個時間點那也不能無限期所以請你們積極我希望在你的任內去完成告訴社會大眾到底這個答案是什麼讓大家安心好不好因為我們現在消費者也很緊張店家也很緊張平台也緊張啊所以 主委\n你的看法呢我想這個案子確實從兩家事業向公平會遞件申報以來各界都非常關切我們對這一些其實都了解那在這個程序上文件齊備了該當怎麼處理一定會\n好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.245 --> 00:10.006\n謝謝主席本席想邀請交通部長跟公平會主委好陳部長、李主委\n\n00:18.627 --> 00:35.352\n謝謝兩位我們繼續來討論外送平台的運費大家都非常期待它這個公司能夠透明化因此到目前為止交通部日前預告修正的汽車運輸業管理規則汽車運輸業\n\n00:38.393 --> 00:52.523\n客運運費的運價準則其中最重要的今天大家都非常關心的也就是外送平台的新興行業運價適用規定你們現在是在預告當中作為未來業者在收取運費的依據以及每一筆\n\n01:04.592 --> 01:15.762\n訂單運費依照每車公里基本運價接運送距離計算其中包含起程費、續程費、得以加計等待費、各個樓層\n\n01:23.409 --> 01:42.289\n樓層費、還有夜間加急的運費以及春節運費大概你們目前所預告的是如此所以交通部你們也多方的跟業者、跟小保官、跟外送平台工會多方的去研討那麼到目前為止外界有說要以60塊為基準\n\n01:45.271 --> 02:07.481\n但是你們立即否決你們立即聲明說還沒有還沒有這回事包括外送員工會的期待沒有你們馬上說了你們馬上說了你們否認了說還沒有還沒有定案這個我們就是希望這個理性的去討論那請教現在的方向現在的方向會漲價嗎這第一個那你們費率大概討論會什麼時候出來\n\n02:13.972 --> 02:31.830\n報告委員當然我們現在正在那個預告期所以我們的法制的過程都還沒完備所以什麼時候可以有這個所以這個預告非常重要就是大家有任何意見趕快再提出來但是坊間已經有給你一個數字那當然你們否決了我能夠跟委員報告的是說方向\n\n02:33.892 --> 02:44.661\n會不會漲?第一個我們是朝透明化的方向來走先把公式先制定出來這是第一個方向第二個方向不一定會漲價漲價是一個假議題不一定會漲價漲價是一個假議題因為到時候即便是漲價是一個假議題\n\n02:50.645 --> 03:13.400\n對即便是有一個公示公示出來了之後設定的是叫做上限是上限而且沒有下限當沒有下限的狀況底下到時候的業者要收多少費用是在我們上限以下都可以所以現在的免運費還是可以做他甚至可以直接做到免運費這都是他的優惠他的權利所以你是訂一個這個天花板對天花板只有天花板\n\n03:13.660 --> 03:42.112\n所以這個也就是說過去我們外送的費用呢它多數是以供需以供需去定價它有尖峰用餐的時間那尖峰用餐它會比較高那離峰的時候有優惠這個價格那再請教我們訂定的費率會取消優惠價格嗎不會我們只會訂上限所以下限即便是免運費運費算零都是可以接受的\n\n03:42.512 --> 03:53.949\n好預問算明都是可以接受那麼業者會不會我們是緊張也就是你如果說這個價格的方面會不會運價轉送到消費者\n\n03:58.067 --> 04:25.468\n目前的審查的機制我們是五方包含了消費者我們大概是找消機會另外就是外送員工會還有平台業者我們也會找還有就是地方政府因為每個地方要因地制宜那最後才是交通部的代表也會參與我們會最後一起來制定那這個部分當然運費的部分對於一個消費者來說他要買一個東西要運然後要製作製作的費用當然是消費者要吸收\n\n04:25.908 --> 04:50.562\n那運費也會由消費者來吸收但問題是我們這次訂的是上限不會讓消費者讓他有超過上限的一個運費但往下是沒有問題的所以消費者的權益我們也可以保障當運價沒有透明的時候消費者到底被收了多少運價其實消費者不曉得所以我們希望透過透明的過程當中保障消費者的權益\n\n04:50.762 --> 05:10.518\n所以如果依照部長你現在的回答是希望能夠達到五贏的這個政策這是理想那所以再請教你們預告之後接下來動作怎麼做什麼時間可以把這個方案正式公告我們現在正在收攏各方的意見你們的時程\n\n05:11.833 --> 05:22.577\n當大家的意見比較有一個共識的時候大概我們就可以往法制化的方向來推進但是這個時程我沒有辦法在這邊跟委員報告因為各方的意見我們還在收攏現在都還不知道你收攏也會有時間啊我到底時間要訂多久啊怎麼會沒有時間表呢\n\n05:30.160 --> 05:47.376\n我們希望能夠盡快但是正方的意見目前比如說我們做任何事情你一定有你的KPI指數啊我收容時間一個月、兩個月、三個月接下來我們法制化我預計要多久因為這個已經是社會面向非常需求每天生活必須用到的\n\n05:47.876 --> 06:07.265\n這個部分我跟委員報告一下這裡面有兩個層面的課題第一個層面就是那個架構跟這個項目就現在在做的法制化的這個工作要完成之後那有這個公司的依據之後後面才會本期了解內容也就是希望要得到我們就誠如剛剛主席所說的我們一定要知道你的時間點啊\n\n06:08.886 --> 06:29.274\n你要有一個指標我什麼時候要做什麼我什麼時候要做什麼你不能無限期呀因為這是民眾每一天都會都會都會touch到的部長立法院的委員們大家都很關心都希望趕快往前推進那我們的方向也是希望趕快往前推進你的方向你一定要有制定一個時間點嗎我們剛才在講的消費者也有共識來部長\n\n06:34.834 --> 06:53.442\n請聽清楚大家都在討論因為你現在是預告所以你預告你會有多久時間收集資料資料收集好你要朝向法治化你一定有一個時程表嘛你不能從早上我從早上聽到現在都沒有答案啊對不對我們不是問你多少錢\n\n06:55.325 --> 07:03.425\n比例多少不是我們只要你行政部門的時間點如果連時間點都沒有那我們今天整天都白問的\n\n07:05.138 --> 07:31.783\n請說明是跟委員報告預告期間就是說各方的意見的話其實我們收容了所以已經訂在下週三10月30號就是把就是說相關的包括這個消基會收容的資料對對對在做整理那因為整理之後就是說當然因為可能就是要達成共識跟委員原來預設的透明化的目標所以就是說比如說在下週三沒有達成這些共識哪些的起義的課題我們會繼續再做一個開會再做一個確認\n\n07:34.165 --> 07:34.566\n請政府有責任的去規劃\n\n07:50.019 --> 08:08.658\n10月30我們今天聽到這個聲音預告就是到10月30收集這些資料你們再下一個動作對不對那你請把你們接下來要怎麼做的時程也請一份資料給本席好嗎你們去預估一下所以接下來公平會在後面來請你往前\n\n08:10.320 --> 08:35.158\n剛剛交通部長說了他們要訂一個系列在這邊那針對於這個兩大我們的這個烏貝伊跟忽編達那麼是不是會同意現在是在審議中那是不是會同意合併我們在經濟委員會也討論過了很多次所以本席要請教這一段時間努力來你們現在的進度\n\n08:37.259 --> 08:55.477\n到底什麼時候可以告訴民眾會不會合因為民眾所怕的也就是萬一如果怪獸產生的時候那只有一家只有一家他定的價格那沒有人有辦法去控管的時候那民眾會\n\n08:57.039 --> 08:57.199\n委員會主席\n\n09:14.837 --> 09:17.119\n從這個案子每一方都非常的關心消費者非常的害怕\n\n09:42.041 --> 09:42.465\n如果被這個壟斷\n\n09:45.188 --> 10:11.610\n外送平台人員的一個基本權益這是我們一定要捍衛的一定要捍衛的因為他們太辛苦了但是在這樣的一個情況之下你到底11月8號是你收集請他們補件那你預計會在什麼時候告訴社會大眾到底同意不同意跟委員說明我們是委員會制的所以文件期備會進入委員會去討論\n\n10:13.872 --> 10:34.969\n當然不要跟我講過程你一個社會重大關注的議題你總是不能無限期吧主委如果以我的認知你是明年1月份任期到吧主委我的任期到1月底對啊那明年的1月底嘛那你會不會在你的任期內去完成\n\n10:36.857 --> 11:06.177\n告訴社會大眾到底同意不同意當然是合一致啊但是你要集中啊你也不能無限期啊一個是委員會討論的情形這麼重大的一件事情一定要經過委員會充分的討論做出事切的決定當然當然當然我們沒有辦法去干涉這個內容但是我們要講社會的需求給主委你了解我想我們委員也都了解社會對這個案件的關切那我想責務龐代法那既然委員都了解社會的關切那更能夠有積極的腳步啊\n\n11:07.178 --> 11:11.849\n那我期盼能夠在你的任內去告訴社會大眾你們的經過委員會的決議是什麼\n\n11:18.228 --> 11:40.745\n朝這個方向努力好嗎這個案件我們一定會審慎能快就快這是我們向來對於人民的申報結合案因為我們深怕店家、消費者以及外送員他只能夠被動的面對獨佔者所提出的條件那就是陳如本席所說的是武術\n\n11:42.026 --> 12:03.713\n台灣社會不應當有這樣的現象所以我再次強調因為我覺得我們政府做事情總是要有一個時間點那也不能無限期所以請你們積極我希望在你的任內去完成告訴社會大眾到底這個答案是什麼讓大家安心好不好因為我們現在消費者也很緊張店家也很緊張平台也緊張啊所以主委\n\n12:12.045 --> 12:27.656\n你的看法呢我想這個案子確實從兩家事業向公平會遞件申報以來各界都非常關切我們對這一些其實都了解那在這個程序上文件齊備了該當怎麼處理一定會\n\n12:31.303 --> 12:31.323\n好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.245,"end":10.006,"text":"謝謝主席本席想邀請交通部長跟公平會主委好陳部長、李主委"},{"start":18.627,"end":35.352,"text":"謝謝兩位我們繼續來討論外送平台的運費大家都非常期待它這個公司能夠透明化因此到目前為止交通部日前預告修正的汽車運輸業管理規則 汽車運輸業"},{"start":38.393,"end":52.523,"text":"客運運費的運價準則其中最重要的今天大家都非常關心的也就是外送平台的新興行業運價適用規定你們現在是在預告當中作為未來業者在收取運費的依據以及每一筆"},{"start":64.592,"end":75.762,"text":"訂單運費依照每車公里基本運價接運送距離計算其中包含起程費、續程費、得以加計等待費、各個樓層"},{"start":83.409,"end":102.289,"text":"樓層費、還有夜間加急的運費以及春節運費大概你們目前所預告的是如此所以交通部你們也多方的跟業者、跟小保官、跟外送平台工會多方的去研討那麼到目前為止外界有說要以60塊為基準"},{"start":105.271,"end":127.481,"text":"但是你們立即否決你們立即聲明說還沒有還沒有這回事包括外送員工會的期待沒有你們馬上說了你們馬上說了你們否認了說還沒有還沒有定案這個我們就是希望這個理性的去討論那請教現在的方向現在的方向會漲價嗎這第一個那你們費率大概討論會什麼時候出來"},{"start":133.972,"end":151.83,"text":"報告委員當然我們現在正在那個預告期所以我們的法制的過程都還沒完備所以什麼時候可以有這個所以這個預告非常重要就是大家有任何意見趕快再提出來但是坊間已經有給你一個數字那當然你們否決了我能夠跟委員報告的是說方向"},{"start":153.892,"end":164.661,"text":"會不會漲?第一個我們是朝透明化的方向來走先把公式先制定出來這是第一個方向第二個方向不一定會漲價漲價是一個假議題不一定會漲價漲價是一個假議題因為到時候即便是漲價是一個假議題"},{"start":170.645,"end":193.4,"text":"對即便是有一個公示公示出來了之後設定的是叫做上限是上限而且沒有下限當沒有下限的狀況底下到時候的業者要收多少費用是在我們上限以下都可以所以現在的免運費還是可以做他甚至可以直接做到免運費這都是他的優惠他的權利所以你是訂一個這個天花板對天花板只有天花板"},{"start":193.66,"end":222.112,"text":"所以這個也就是說過去我們外送的費用呢它多數是以供需以供需去定價它有尖峰用餐的時間那尖峰用餐它會比較高那離峰的時候有優惠這個價格那再請教我們訂定的費率會取消優惠價格嗎不會我們只會訂上限所以下限即便是免運費運費算零都是可以接受的"},{"start":222.512,"end":233.949,"text":"好 預問算明都是可以接受那麼業者會不會 我們是緊張也就是你如果說這個價格的方面會不會運價轉送到消費者"},{"start":238.067,"end":265.468,"text":"目前的審查的機制我們是五方包含了消費者我們大概是找消機會另外就是外送員工會還有平台業者我們也會找還有就是地方政府因為每個地方要因地制宜那最後才是交通部的代表也會參與我們會最後一起來制定那這個部分當然運費的部分對於一個消費者來說他要買一個東西要運然後要製作製作的費用當然是消費者要吸收"},{"start":265.908,"end":290.562,"text":"那運費也會由消費者來吸收但問題是我們這次訂的是上限不會讓消費者讓他有超過上限的一個運費但往下是沒有問題的所以消費者的權益我們也可以保障當運價沒有透明的時候消費者到底被收了多少運價其實消費者不曉得所以我們希望透過透明的過程當中保障消費者的權益"},{"start":290.762,"end":310.518,"text":"所以如果依照部長你現在的回答是希望能夠達到五贏的這個政策這是理想那所以再請教你們預告之後接下來動作怎麼做什麼時間可以把這個方案正式公告我們現在正在收攏各方的意見你們的時程"},{"start":311.833,"end":322.577,"text":"當大家的意見比較有一個共識的時候大概我們就可以往法制化的方向來推進但是這個時程我沒有辦法在這邊跟委員報告因為各方的意見我們還在收攏現在都還不知道你收攏也會有時間啊我到底時間要訂多久啊怎麼會沒有時間表呢"},{"start":330.16,"end":347.376,"text":"我們希望能夠盡快但是正方的意見目前比如說我們做任何事情你一定有你的KPI指數啊我收容時間一個月、兩個月、三個月接下來我們法制化我預計要多久因為這個已經是社會面向非常需求每天生活必須用到的"},{"start":347.876,"end":367.265,"text":"這個部分我跟委員報告一下這裡面有兩個層面的課題第一個層面就是那個架構跟這個項目就現在在做的法制化的這個工作要完成之後那有這個公司的依據之後後面才會本期了解內容也就是希望要得到我們就誠如剛剛主席所說的我們一定要知道你的時間點啊"},{"start":368.886,"end":389.274,"text":"你要有一個指標我什麼時候要做什麼我什麼時候要做什麼你不能無限期呀因為這是民眾每一天都會都會都會touch到的部長立法院的委員們大家都很關心都希望趕快往前推進那我們的方向也是希望趕快往前推進你的方向你一定要有制定一個時間點嗎我們剛才在講的消費者也有共識來部長"},{"start":394.834,"end":413.442,"text":"請聽清楚大家都在討論因為你現在是預告所以你預告你會有多久時間收集資料資料收集好你要朝向法治化你一定有一個時程表嘛你不能從早上我從早上聽到現在都沒有答案啊 對不對我們不是問你多少錢"},{"start":415.325,"end":423.425,"text":"比例多少 不是 我們只要你行政部門的時間點如果連時間點都沒有 那我們今天整天都白問的"},{"start":425.138,"end":451.783,"text":"請說明是 跟委員報告預告期間就是說各方的意見的話其實我們收容了所以已經訂在下週三10月30號就是把就是說相關的包括這個消基會收容的資料對對對在做整理那因為整理之後就是說當然因為可能就是要達成共識跟委員原來預設的透明化的目標所以就是說比如說在下週三沒有達成這些共識哪些的起義的課題我們會繼續再做一個開會再做一個確認"},{"start":454.165,"end":454.566,"text":"請政府有責任的去規劃"},{"start":470.019,"end":488.658,"text":"10月30我們今天聽到這個聲音預告就是到10月30收集這些資料你們再下一個動作對不對那你請把你們接下來要怎麼做的時程也請一份資料給本席好嗎你們去預估一下所以接下來公平會在後面來請你往前"},{"start":490.32,"end":515.158,"text":"剛剛交通部長說了他們要訂一個系列在這邊那針對於這個兩大我們的這個烏貝伊跟忽編達那麼是不是會同意現在是在審議中那是不是會同意合併我們在經濟委員會也討論過了很多次所以本席要請教這一段時間努力來你們現在的進度"},{"start":517.259,"end":535.477,"text":"到底什麼時候可以告訴民眾會不會合因為民眾所怕的也就是萬一如果怪獸產生的時候那只有一家只有一家他定的價格那沒有人有辦法去控管的時候那民眾會"},{"start":537.039,"end":537.199,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":554.837,"end":557.119,"text":"從這個案子每一方都非常的關心消費者非常的害怕"},{"start":582.041,"end":582.465,"text":"如果被這個壟斷"},{"start":585.188,"end":611.61,"text":"外送平台人員的一個基本權益這是我們一定要捍衛的一定要捍衛的因為他們太辛苦了但是在這樣的一個情況之下你到底11月8號是你收集請他們補件那你預計會在什麼時候告訴社會大眾到底同意不同意跟委員說明我們是委員會制的所以文件期備會進入委員會去討論"},{"start":613.872,"end":634.969,"text":"當然不要跟我講過程你一個社會重大關注的議題你總是不能無限期吧主委 如果以我的認知你是明年1月份任期到吧主委 我的任期到1月底對啊 那明年的1月底嘛那你會不會在你的任期內去完成"},{"start":636.857,"end":666.177,"text":"告訴社會大眾到底同意不同意當然是合一致啊但是你要集中啊你也不能無限期啊一個是委員會討論的情形這麼重大的一件事情一定要經過委員會充分的討論做出事切的決定當然當然當然我們沒有辦法去干涉這個內容但是我們要講社會的需求給主委你了解我想我們委員也都了解社會對這個案件的關切那我想責務龐代法那既然委員都了解社會的關切那更能夠有積極的腳步啊"},{"start":667.178,"end":671.849,"text":"那我期盼能夠在你的任內去告訴社會大眾你們的經過委員會的決議是什麼"},{"start":678.228,"end":700.745,"text":"朝這個方向努力好嗎這個案件我們一定會審慎能快就快這是我們向來對於人民的申報結合案因為我們深怕店家、消費者以及外送員他只能夠被動的面對獨佔者所提出的條件那就是陳如本席所說的是武術"},{"start":702.026,"end":723.713,"text":"台灣社會不應當有這樣的現象所以我再次強調因為我覺得我們政府做事情總是要有一個時間點那也不能無限期所以請你們積極我希望在你的任內去完成告訴社會大眾到底這個答案是什麼讓大家安心好不好因為我們現在消費者也很緊張店家也很緊張平台也緊張啊所以 主委"},{"start":732.045,"end":747.656,"text":"你的看法呢我想這個案子確實從兩家事業向公平會遞件申報以來各界都非常關切我們對這一些其實都了解那在這個程序上文件齊備了該當怎麼處理一定會"},{"start":751.303,"end":751.323,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1116,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（14時15分）謝謝主席，本席想邀請交通部長跟公平會主委。"],["主席：陳部長、李主委。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝兩位。我們繼續來討論外送平臺的運費，大家都非常期待這個公司能夠透明化，到目前為止，關於交通部日前預告修正的「汽車運輸業管理規則」、「汽車運輸業客貨運運價準則」，其中最重要的、今天大家都非常關心的，也就是外送平臺的新興行業運價適用規定，你們現在是在預告當中，作為未來業者在收取運費的依據，而每一筆訂單的運費應依每車公里基本運價按運送距離計算，其中包含了起程費、續程費，並得以加計等待費、樓層費、夜間加成運費以及春節運費，你們目前預告的大概是如此。交通部也跟業者、消保官、外送平臺工會等多方研討，到目前為止，外界有說要以60塊為基準，但是你們立即否決，你們立即聲明說還沒有、沒有這回事……"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，那是外送員工會的期待、那是他們的講法。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，你們馬上說了、你們否認說這還沒有定案。"],["陳部長世凱：是，還沒有定案。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這部分我們希望理性的討論，請教現在的方向會漲價嗎？這是第一個；關於費率，你們大概會什麼時候討論出來？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我們現在正在預告期，我們的法制過程都還沒完備，所以什麼時候可以訂價出來……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以這個預告非常重要啊，就是大家有任何意見趕快再提出來，但是坊間已經給你一個數字，當然你們否決了！"],["陳部長世凱：我能夠跟委員報告的是方向。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：會不會漲？"],["陳部長世凱：我們早上有提過，第一個，我們是朝透明化的方向來走，先把公式先制定出來，這是第一個方向；第二個方向，不一定會漲價，漲價是一個假議題……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不一定會漲價！"],["陳部長世凱：漲價是一個假議題，到時候即便是我們的公式……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：漲價是一個假議題。"],["陳部長世凱：對，即便有一個公式出來之後，設定的是上限，而且沒有下限，當沒有下限的狀況下，到時候業者要收多少費用是在我們的上限以下都可以，所以現在的免運費還是可以做，它甚至可以直接做到免運費，這都是它的優惠、它的權力。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以你是訂一個天花板？"],["陳部長世凱：上限，對，天花板、只有天花板。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以也就是說，過去我們的外送費用多數是以供需去定價，有尖峰用餐的時間，尖峰用餐會比較高；離峰的時候有優惠價格。那再請教，我們訂定的費率會取消優惠價格嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：不會，我們只會訂上限，所以下限即便是免運費、運費算零都是可以接受的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，運費算零都是可以接受，那麼業者會不會……我們覺得緊張，也就是這個價格會不會轉嫁至運費、轉嫁到消費者？"],["陳部長世凱：我們目前的審查機制是五方，包含了消費者，我們大概是找消基會，另外就是外送員工會，還有平臺業者我們也會找，還有就是地方政府，因為每個地方要因地制宜，最後才是交通部的代表也會參與，我們最後會一起來制定。","當然運費的部分對於一個消費者來說，他要買一個東西要運、要製作，製作的費用當然是消費者要吸收，那運費也會由消費者來吸收。但問題是我們這次訂的是上限，不會讓消費者有超過上限的運費，但往下是沒有問題的，所以消費者的權益我們也可以保障，當運價沒有透明的時候，消費者到底被收了多少運價其實消費者不曉得，所以我們希望透過透明的過程來保障消費者的權益。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以如果依照部長你現在的回答，是希望能夠達到五贏的政策，這是理想！"],["陳部長世凱：我們希望能夠共贏。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以再請教，在你們預告之後，接下來動作怎麼做？什麼時間可以把這個方案正式公告？你們的時程？"],["陳部長世凱：我們現在正在收攏各方的意見，當大家的意見比較有共識的時候，大概我們就可以往法制化的方向來推進，但是這個時程我沒有辦法在這邊跟委員報告，因為各方的意見我們還在收攏。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以現在都還不知道？"],["陳部長世凱：我們還在收攏……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你收攏也會有時間啊，到底時間要訂多久？怎麼會沒有時間表呢？"],["陳部長世凱：我們希望能夠儘快，但是地方的意見目前……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你所謂的儘快，比如說做任何事情，你一定有你的KPI指數，你的收攏時間要1個月、2個月、3個月？接下來法制化預計要多久，因為這個已經是社會面向非常需求的，是每天生活必須用到的。"],["林司長福山：這個部分我跟委員報告一下，這裡面有兩個層面的課題，第一個層面就是那個架構跟這個項目，就是現在在做的法制化工作完成之後，有共識的依據之後，後面才會……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席了解內容，就誠如剛剛主席所說的，我們一定要知道你的時間點，你要有一個指標，什麼時候要做什麼、什麼時候做什麼，你不能無限期啊！因為這是民眾每一天都會touch到的，部長。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，立法院的委員們大家都很關心，都希望趕快往前推進，我們的方向也是希望趕快往前推進……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你的方向，你應該要制訂一個時間點嘛？"],["陳部長世凱：如果立法院的大家都有共識，我們剛才講的消費者也有共識，然後……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長請聽清楚，大家都在討論，因為你現在是預告，所以你預告會有多久時間來蒐集資料，資料蒐集好後你要朝向法制化，你一定有一個時程表嘛？我從早上聽到現在都沒有答案，對不對？我們不是問你多少錢、比例多少，不是！我們只要你行政部門的時間點。"],["陳局長文瑞：有。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：如果連時間點都沒有，那我們今天整天都白問了，請說明。"],["陳局長文瑞：跟委員報告，預告期間就是各方意見的話，其實我們收攏了，所以已經訂在下週三10月30號，把相關的包括消基會……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：收攏的資料。"],["陳局長文瑞：對，在做整理，因為整理之後要達成共識跟委員原來預設的透明化的目標，比如說在下週三沒有達成這些共識，有哪些歧異的課題，我們會繼續再開會，再做一個確認。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為時間的關係，請你把你們預計針對這個社會面向非常關心的議題，而且是民眾每一天都會運用到的，請政府有責任的去規劃。"],["陳部長世凱：當然。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你說10月30，我們今天聽到這個聲音，預告就是到10月30，蒐集這些資料後你們再下一個動作，對不對？請你把你們接下來要怎麼做的時程，也請一份資料給本席好嗎？你們去預估一下。","公平會站在後面，請你往前。剛剛交通部長說了，他要訂一個ceiling在這邊，針對Uber Eats跟foodpanda是不是會同意合併，現在是在審議中，是不是會同意合併，我們在經濟委員會也討論過了很多次。所以本席要請教，經過這一段時間的努力，關於你們現在的進度，到底什麼時候可以告訴民眾會不會合併？因為民眾所怕的，也就是萬一如果怪獸產生的時候，那只有一家，只有一家它訂的價格，沒有人有辦法去控管的時候，民眾會達到五輸的階段，所以要請教你們目前什麼時候可以告訴社會大眾？"],["李主任委員鎂：我跟委員說明一下，目前是在補件的階段，如果補件……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請教它補件的deadline是在什麼時候？"],["李主任委員鎂：關於補件，目前業者……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你給業者的deadline是什麼時候？"],["李主任委員鎂：11月8號。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就是下個月11月8號，請他們補件。"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那接下來呢？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們看它補件的情形如何，如果文件齊備，我們就開始算審查的期間，如果文件不齊備，會再進一步的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：主委，每一方都非常的關心這個案子，消費者非常的害怕，如果被壟斷，外送平臺人員的基本權益是我們一定要捍衛的，因為他們太辛苦了，但是在這樣的情況之下，11月8號是你蒐集請他們補件，那你預計會在什麼時候告訴社會大眾到底同意不同意？"],["李主任委員鎂：跟委員說明，我們是委員會制的，所以文件齊備之後會進入委員會去討論……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然，不要跟我講過程……"],["李主任委員鎂：我沒有辦法預估委員會……其他的問題……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這是一個社會重大關注的議題，你總是不能無限期吧！主委，如果以我的認知，你是明年1月份任期到吧，是不是？"],["李主任委員鎂：我的任期到1月底。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對啊！到明年的1月底，那你會不會在你的任期內去完成，告訴社會大眾到底同意不同意？"],["李主任委員鎂：因為這是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然是合議制，但是你要最終啊！你也不能無限期啊！"],["李主任委員鎂：一個是補件的情形、一個是委員會討論的情形，這麼重大的一件事情，一定要經過委員會充分的討論做出適切的決定……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然、當然！我們沒有辦法去干涉這個內容，但是我們要講社會的需求給主委了解。"],["李主任委員鎂：我想我們委員也都了解社會對這個案件的關切，我想責無旁貸把這個案子做好……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：既然委員都了解社會的關切，那更應該有積極的腳步啊！我期盼能夠在你的任內去告訴社會大眾你們經過委員會的決議是什麼，朝這個方向努力，好嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：這個案件我們一定會審慎，能快就快，這是我們向來對於人民的申報結合案件……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為我們深怕店家、消費者以及外送員只能夠被動的面對獨占者所提出的條件，就是誠如本席所說的，是五輸，臺灣社會不應當有這樣的現象，所以我再一次強調，因為我覺得我們政府做事情總是要有一個時間點，也不能無限期，所以請你們積極，我希望在你的任內去完成並告訴社會大眾到底這個答案是什麼，讓大家安心，好不好？因為現在消費者也很緊張，店家也很緊張，平臺也緊張啊！所以主委的看法呢？"],["李主任委員鎂：我想這個案子確實從兩家事業向公平會遞件申報以來，各界都非常關切，我們對這些其實都了解，這個程序上文件齊備了，該當怎麼處理，一定會審慎的去處理，在時程上，因為我們是委員會制度，不是首長制，我沒有辦法預見將來委員會討論的情形會是什麼情況。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：情形我們不用，我們也不予干預，我請你積極開會處理，好不好？"],["李主任委員鎂：這一部分我們會積極處理。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，趕快加油！"],["主席：謝謝楊委員。李主委，你這樣我開會開不完，你知道嗎？你就講你會回去盡力達成就好了，你平常是在經濟委員會嗎？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：經濟委員會，我們問過了無數次……"],["主席：還沒聊完的，你們回去經濟委員會再好好聊一下。","接下來有請邱志偉委員，邱志偉、邱志偉委員不在。","接下來有請黃捷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":366,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-7","speakers":["魯明哲","李昆澤","林國成","林沛祥","林俊憲","許智傑","廖先翔","徐富癸","邱若華","陳雪生","陳素月","蔡其昌","林月琴","李坤城","鍾佳濱","牛煦庭","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","賴惠員","黃健豪","羅廷瑋","羅智強","王鴻薇","何欣純","楊瓊瓔","黃捷","游顥","陳冠廷"],"page_start":289,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1139001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、公平交易委員會主任委員李鎂、數位發展部次長、勞動部次長、衛\n生福利部、經濟部、個人資料保護委員會籌備處及行政院消費者保護處就「外送平台之整併、收\n費指引、個資保護、產業發展、勞工權益及食品物流安全規範」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、\n邀請交通部公路局局長就「公路大型客貨運駕駛短缺之因應措施暨現行遊覽車評鑑制度之檢討與\n精進」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139001_00005"}}}