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00:00:49,851\n重點就是要來促進壯世代參與經濟並認識他們的潛力而不是僅僅將他們視為年齡的負擔解決年齡的歧視問題創造年齡友善的工作場所確保台灣的高齡化的被視為一種\n\n4\n00:01:07,822 --> 00:01:20,635\n經濟的支援而不是挑戰所以剛才我們其他委員就說他已經簽了連署但是呢都不了解部長你認同這個法案嗎\n\n5\n00:01:23,443 --> 00:01:37,886\n委員我剛剛有報告過就是說概念上我支持這一個壯世代就是反年齡歧視的這個概念啦這我覺得是但是說裡面都有寫清楚嘛所以說這樣一講自己自己沒了概念頭大家連署都是念頭嘛不是這樣啦對大家都要了解才會去簽連署嘛所以這個部分我們部長也很清楚所以呢可是他要定成法律比較值得商榷啦\n\n6\n00:01:52,930 --> 00:02:13,861\n因為法律它是確實有不確定性的這樣子的問題是有不確定性就是要討論要來怎麼樣去修改變成它是比較符合嘛所以說現在就是很嚴重的高齡但是我想要請教一下我們60歲以上的人口占比例多少就是我們的高齡人口我們的60歲以上委員這個可不可以讓我再查一下\n\n7\n00:02:23,406 --> 00:02:29,932\n所以你都不知道多少的話你怎麼說這個高齡這個說有沒有需要所以現在我們的長照還有日照有沒有說足夠我請教部長一下說你要不要準備基金準備經費來養你的父母所以說你另外一半的父母你要不要去撫養\n\n8\n00:02:50,737 --> 00:02:56,685\n當然這個要看世代啦。看世代,但是以你啊,你覺得說以你要不要養?要不要撫養?要不要照顧?\n\n9\n00:03:04,215 --> 00:03:13,621\n因為...這樣子就是說...而且這個有點世代差異比如說要年輕一代他們對這樣就比較不接受所以但是你說不接受你說的啦不接受的話就變成我們的高齡沒人照顧所以你的長照跟日照有夠嗎所以我們就是問題就在這裡你覺得你的\n\n10\n00:03:24,648 --> 00:03:40,546\n你是年輕人可能你沒有你照顧你的父母你回答的很清楚但是照顧另外一半你就就是這樣子就是就是有這樣子的問題存在所以我們就是不管怎麼樣我們就是為了就是我們的\n\n11\n00:03:41,648 --> 00:03:56,001\n高齡來去創造一些福利所以我們是現在目前我們的日照長照其他不足所以我們才要去我們的春城委員才要覺得壯世代我們是可以怎麼樣去更完整\n\n12\n00:03:57,022 --> 00:03:57,482\n當然委員您這邊顯示的就是20%是吧?\n\n13\n00:04:16,887 --> 00:04:44,711\n我顯示是因為我有去做功課嘛你來別知行沒有做功課嘛所以呢所以我們現在就是說我們要如何去協助我們的這個法案是不是可以幫助有一群人他們可以在自己照顧自己的所以現在學校也少子化少子化的話是不是學校也可以做另外一個就是\n\n14\n00:04:45,231 --> 00:04:53,074\n對我們的高齡也有幫助對我們的家庭有幫助對學校有幫助對我們的長輩跟小孩的互動更有幫助所以是不是有沒有想到這樣子的一個方法還有就是因為時間有限我先講完我希望就是說後面你可以給我一個書面的讓我更了解我們才能去幫助更多人\n\n15\n00:05:13,943 --> 00:05:17,408\n所以民間大家有一句話不知道部長是不是知道就是現在的一句話就是說\n\n16\n00:05:45,089 --> 00:05:59,900\n退休但是不休這樣子的讓我們的高齡才能在這個社會上貢獻我們覺得說家魯一老就是如一寶這樣子才真正的對高齡的幫助因為我這邊的社團每一個月都是去仁愛之家幫老人家剪頭髮他們我們看到他們不是病死\n\n17\n00:06:08,226 --> 00:06:18,013\n是因為他們等不到人來看他,看不到孫子,看不到小孩,是悶死你知道嗎?這個這一塊所以我們希望我們要怎麼樣去更完整還有說我們的壯世代已經提出來我們的村城委員希望說怎麼樣去照顧我們的群\n\n18\n00:06:28,661 --> 00:06:28,701\n﹝無言﹞\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10971\t11833\t謝謝主席 有請部長\n18496\t42507\t好部長好不管什麼法但是今天部長就是被大家叫上來站法的臺灣現在在面臨快速人口老化我們今天審查的壯世代政策與產業發展促進草案\n44848\t49851\t重點就是要來促進壯世代參與經濟並認識他們的潛力而不是僅僅將他們視為年齡的負擔解決年齡的歧視問題創造年齡友善的工作場所確保台灣的高齡化的被視為一種\n67822\t80635\t經濟的支援而不是挑戰所以剛才我們其他委員就說他已經簽了連署但是呢都不了解部長你認同這個法案嗎\n83443\t97886\t委員我剛剛有報告過就是說概念上我支持這一個壯世代就是反年齡歧視的這個概念啦這我覺得是但是說裡面都有寫清楚嘛所以說這樣一講自己自己沒了概念頭大家連署都是念頭嘛不是這樣啦對大家都要了解才會去簽連署嘛所以這個部分我們部長也很清楚所以呢可是他要定成法律比較值得商榷啦\n112930\t133861\t因為法律它是確實有不確定性的這樣子的問題是有不確定性就是要討論要來怎麼樣去修改變成它是比較符合嘛所以說現在就是很嚴重的高齡但是我想要請教一下我們60歲以上的人口占比例多少就是我們的高齡人口我們的60歲以上委員這個可不可以讓我再查一下\n143406\t149932\t所以你都不知道多少的話你怎麼說這個高齡這個說有沒有需要所以現在我們的長照還有日照有沒有說足夠我請教部長一下說你要不要準備基金準備經費來養你的父母所以說你另外一半的父母你要不要去撫養\n170737\t176685\t當然這個要看世代啦。看世代,但是以你啊,你覺得說以你要不要養?要不要撫養?要不要照顧?\n184215\t193621\t因為...這樣子就是說...而且這個有點世代差異比如說要年輕一代他們對這樣就比較不接受所以但是你說不接受你說的啦不接受的話就變成我們的高齡沒人照顧所以你的長照跟日照有夠嗎所以我們就是問題就在這裡你覺得你的\n204648\t220546\t你是年輕人可能你沒有你照顧你的父母你回答的很清楚但是照顧另外一半你就就是這樣子就是就是有這樣子的問題存在所以我們就是不管怎麼樣我們就是為了就是我們的\n221648\t236001\t高齡來去創造一些福利所以我們是現在目前我們的日照長照其他不足所以我們才要去我們的春城委員才要覺得壯世代我們是可以怎麼樣去更完整\n237022\t237482\t當然委員您這邊顯示的就是20%是吧?\n256887\t284711\t我顯示是因為我有去做功課嘛你來別知行沒有做功課嘛所以呢所以我們現在就是說我們要如何去協助我們的這個法案是不是可以幫助有一群人他們可以在自己照顧自己的所以現在學校也少子化少子化的話是不是學校也可以做另外一個就是\n285231\t293074\t對我們的高齡也有幫助對我們的家庭有幫助對學校有幫助對我們的長輩跟小孩的互動更有幫助所以是不是有沒有想到這樣子的一個方法還有就是因為時間有限我先講完我希望就是說後面你可以給我一個書面的讓我更了解我們才能去幫助更多人\n313943\t317408\t所以民間大家有一句話不知道部長是不是知道就是現在的一句話就是說\n322517\t344428\t﹏﹏﹏\n345089\t359900\t退休但是不休這樣子的讓我們的高齡才能在這個社會上貢獻我們覺得說家魯一老就是如一寶這樣子才真正的對高齡的幫助因為我這邊的社團每一個月都是去仁愛之家幫老人家剪頭髮他們我們看到他們不是病死\n368226\t378013\t是因為他們等不到人來看他,看不到孫子,看不到小孩,是悶死你知道嗎?這個這一塊所以我們希望我們要怎麼樣去更完整還有說我們的壯世代已經提出來我們的村城委員希望說怎麼樣去照顧我們的群\n388661\t388701\t﹝無言﹞\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請部長\n好部長好不管什麼法但是今天部長就是被大家叫上來站法的臺灣現在在面臨快速人口老化我們今天審查的壯世代政策與產業發展促進草案\n重點就是要來促進壯世代參與經濟並認識他們的潛力而不是僅僅將他們視為年齡的負擔解決年齡的歧視問題創造年齡友善的工作場所確保台灣的高齡化的被視為一種\n經濟的支援而不是挑戰所以剛才我們其他委員就說他已經簽了連署但是呢都不了解部長你認同這個法案嗎\n委員我剛剛有報告過就是說概念上我支持這一個壯世代就是反年齡歧視的這個概念啦這我覺得是但是說裡面都有寫清楚嘛所以說這樣一講自己自己沒了概念頭大家連署都是念頭嘛不是這樣啦對大家都要了解才會去簽連署嘛所以這個部分我們部長也很清楚所以呢可是他要定成法律比較值得商榷啦\n因為法律它是確實有不確定性的這樣子的問題是有不確定性就是要討論要來怎麼樣去修改變成它是比較符合嘛所以說現在就是很嚴重的高齡但是我想要請教一下我們60歲以上的人口占比例多少就是我們的高齡人口我們的60歲以上委員這個可不可以讓我再查一下\n所以你都不知道多少的話你怎麼說這個高齡這個說有沒有需要所以現在我們的長照還有日照有沒有說足夠我請教部長一下說你要不要準備基金準備經費來養你的父母所以說你另外一半的父母你要不要去撫養\n當然這個要看世代啦。看世代,但是以你啊,你覺得說以你要不要養?要不要撫養?要不要照顧?\n因為...這樣子就是說...而且這個有點世代差異比如說要年輕一代他們對這樣就比較不接受所以但是你說不接受你說的啦不接受的話就變成我們的高齡沒人照顧所以你的長照跟日照有夠嗎所以我們就是問題就在這裡你覺得你的\n你是年輕人可能你沒有你照顧你的父母你回答的很清楚但是照顧另外一半你就就是這樣子就是就是有這樣子的問題存在所以我們就是不管怎麼樣我們就是為了就是我們的\n高齡來去創造一些福利所以我們是現在目前我們的日照長照其他不足所以我們才要去我們的春城委員才要覺得壯世代我們是可以怎麼樣去更完整\n當然委員您這邊顯示的就是20%是吧?\n我顯示是因為我有去做功課嘛你來別知行沒有做功課嘛所以呢所以我們現在就是說我們要如何去協助我們的這個法案是不是可以幫助有一群人他們可以在自己照顧自己的所以現在學校也少子化少子化的話是不是學校也可以做另外一個就是\n對我們的高齡也有幫助對我們的家庭有幫助對學校有幫助對我們的長輩跟小孩的互動更有幫助所以是不是有沒有想到這樣子的一個方法還有就是因為時間有限我先講完我希望就是說後面你可以給我一個書面的讓我更了解我們才能去幫助更多人\n所以民間大家有一句話不知道部長是不是知道就是現在的一句話就是說\n﹏﹏﹏\n退休但是不休這樣子的讓我們的高齡才能在這個社會上貢獻我們覺得說家魯一老就是如一寶這樣子才真正的對高齡的幫助因為我這邊的社團每一個月都是去仁愛之家幫老人家剪頭髮他們我們看到他們不是病死\n是因為他們等不到人來看他,看不到孫子,看不到小孩,是悶死你知道嗎?這個這一塊所以我們希望我們要怎麼樣去更完整還有說我們的壯世代已經提出來我們的村城委員希望說怎麼樣去照顧我們的群\n﹝無言﹞\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.971 --> 00:11.833\n謝謝主席有請部長\n\n00:18.496 --> 00:42.507\n好部長好不管什麼法但是今天部長就是被大家叫上來站法的臺灣現在在面臨快速人口老化我們今天審查的壯世代政策與產業發展促進草案\n\n00:44.848 --> 00:49.851\n重點就是要來促進壯世代參與經濟並認識他們的潛力而不是僅僅將他們視為年齡的負擔解決年齡的歧視問題創造年齡友善的工作場所確保台灣的高齡化的被視為一種\n\n01:07.822 --> 01:20.635\n經濟的支援而不是挑戰所以剛才我們其他委員就說他已經簽了連署但是呢都不了解部長你認同這個法案嗎\n\n01:23.443 --> 01:37.886\n委員我剛剛有報告過就是說概念上我支持這一個壯世代就是反年齡歧視的這個概念啦這我覺得是但是說裡面都有寫清楚嘛所以說這樣一講自己自己沒了概念頭大家連署都是念頭嘛不是這樣啦對大家都要了解才會去簽連署嘛所以這個部分我們部長也很清楚所以呢可是他要定成法律比較值得商榷啦\n\n01:52.930 --> 02:13.861\n因為法律它是確實有不確定性的這樣子的問題是有不確定性就是要討論要來怎麼樣去修改變成它是比較符合嘛所以說現在就是很嚴重的高齡但是我想要請教一下我們60歲以上的人口占比例多少就是我們的高齡人口我們的60歲以上委員這個可不可以讓我再查一下\n\n02:23.406 --> 02:29.932\n所以你都不知道多少的話你怎麼說這個高齡這個說有沒有需要所以現在我們的長照還有日照有沒有說足夠我請教部長一下說你要不要準備基金準備經費來養你的父母所以說你另外一半的父母你要不要去撫養\n\n02:50.737 --> 02:56.685\n當然這個要看世代啦。看世代,但是以你啊,你覺得說以你要不要養?要不要撫養?要不要照顧?\n\n03:04.215 --> 03:13.621\n因為...這樣子就是說...而且這個有點世代差異比如說要年輕一代他們對這樣就比較不接受所以但是你說不接受你說的啦不接受的話就變成我們的高齡沒人照顧所以你的長照跟日照有夠嗎所以我們就是問題就在這裡你覺得你的\n\n03:24.648 --> 03:40.546\n你是年輕人可能你沒有你照顧你的父母你回答的很清楚但是照顧另外一半你就就是這樣子就是就是有這樣子的問題存在所以我們就是不管怎麼樣我們就是為了就是我們的\n\n03:41.648 --> 03:56.001\n高齡來去創造一些福利所以我們是現在目前我們的日照長照其他不足所以我們才要去我們的春城委員才要覺得壯世代我們是可以怎麼樣去更完整\n\n03:57.022 --> 03:57.482\n當然委員您這邊顯示的就是20%是吧?\n\n04:16.887 --> 04:44.711\n我顯示是因為我有去做功課嘛你來別知行沒有做功課嘛所以呢所以我們現在就是說我們要如何去協助我們的這個法案是不是可以幫助有一群人他們可以在自己照顧自己的所以現在學校也少子化少子化的話是不是學校也可以做另外一個就是\n\n04:45.231 --> 04:53.074\n對我們的高齡也有幫助對我們的家庭有幫助對學校有幫助對我們的長輩跟小孩的互動更有幫助所以是不是有沒有想到這樣子的一個方法還有就是因為時間有限我先講完我希望就是說後面你可以給我一個書面的讓我更了解我們才能去幫助更多人\n\n05:13.943 --> 05:17.408\n所以民間大家有一句話不知道部長是不是知道就是現在的一句話就是說\n\n05:45.089 --> 05:59.900\n退休但是不休這樣子的讓我們的高齡才能在這個社會上貢獻我們覺得說家魯一老就是如一寶這樣子才真正的對高齡的幫助因為我這邊的社團每一個月都是去仁愛之家幫老人家剪頭髮他們我們看到他們不是病死\n\n06:08.226 --> 06:18.013\n是因為他們等不到人來看他,看不到孫子,看不到小孩,是悶死你知道嗎?這個這一塊所以我們希望我們要怎麼樣去更完整還有說我們的壯世代已經提出來我們的村城委員希望說怎麼樣去照顧我們的群\n\n06:28.661 --> 06:28.701\n﹝無言﹞\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.971,"end":11.833,"text":"謝謝主席 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﹝無言﹞"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1392,"blocks":[["麥委員玉珍：（14時22分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["麥委員玉珍：部長好。不管什麼法，但是今天部長就是被大家叫上來罰站。臺灣現在在面臨快速人口老化，我們今天審查的壯世代政策與產業發展促進草案，重點就是要來促進壯世代參與經濟，並認識他們的潛力，而不是僅僅將他們視為年齡的負擔，解決年齡的歧視問題，創造年齡友善的工作場所，確保臺灣的高齡化被視為一種經濟資源，而不是挑戰，所以剛才我們其他委員就說，他已經簽了連署，但是他都不了解。部長，你認同這個法案嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我剛剛有報告過，概念上我支持壯世代反年齡歧視的概念，我覺得這個理解……"],["麥委員玉珍：是，裡面都有寫清楚嘛！他說自己不了解「癮頭」，連署的大家都是「癮頭」嗎？不是這樣吧！"],["何部長佩珊：不是、不是……"],["麥委員玉珍：所以大家都要了解才會去簽連署嘛！所以這個部分，我們部長也很清楚……"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我強調一下，可是它要訂成法律比較值得商榷，因為法律確實有不確定性的問題。"],["麥委員玉珍：是，不確定性就是要討論，看要怎麼樣去修改成比較符合嘛！所以現在就是很嚴重的高齡，但是我想要請教一下，我們60歲以上的人口占比例多少？就是我們的高齡人口。"],["何部長佩珊：我們60歲以上……委員，這個可不可以讓我再查一下？"],["麥委員玉珍：你都不知道多少的話，你怎麼知道高齡有沒有需要？所以現在我們的長照還有日照有沒有足夠？我要請教部長，你要不要準備基金、準備經費來養你的父母？"],["何部長佩珊：當然每個人都要準備……"],["麥委員玉珍：對，所以你另外一半的父母，你要不要去撫養？"],["何部長佩珊：這個要看世代啦！"],["麥委員玉珍：看世代，但是以你來說，你覺得你要不要撫養、要不要照顧？"],["何部長佩珊：我想這有點世代差異，比如說像年輕一代，他們對這樣就比較不接受。"],["麥委員玉珍：對，但是你說不接受……"],["何部長佩珊：當然在我這個年紀，應該普遍是接受的。"],["麥委員玉珍：不接受就變成我們的高齡沒人照顧，所以你的長照跟日照夠嗎？我們問題就在這裡，你覺得你是年輕人，照顧你的父母你回答得很清楚，但是照顧另外一半你就「伊伊啊啊」，就是會有這樣子的問題存在。所以不管怎麼樣，我們就是為了我們的高齡來創造一些福利，目前我們的日照、長照不足，所以我們的春城委員才覺得壯世代我們怎麼樣可以更完整，要切割出來怎麼樣去幫忙。所以你都不知道有多少人，有沒有什麼策略看我們怎麼樣去協助？"],["何部長佩珊：剛才委員你這邊顯示的就是20%，是嗎？"],["麥委員玉珍：我顯示是因為我有去做功課嘛！你來被質詢沒有做功課嘛！所以現在要如何去協助我們的法案，是不是可以幫助有一群人，他們可以自己照顧自己，而且現在學校也少子化，是不是學校也可以作為另外一個壯世代法案裡面的長照或者日照中心，對我們的高齡也有幫助，對我們的家庭有幫助，對學校有幫助，對我們的長輩跟小孩的互動更有幫助，所以有沒有想到這樣子的一個方法？","因為時間有限，我先講完，我希望後面你可以給我一個書面讓我更瞭解，我們才能去幫助更多人。所以民間大家有一句話，部長知不知道？就是說「忙得要死，比閒閒死還好」，所以希望我們的長輩，他可以努力為了經濟、為了家庭，可以為了找回他的信心，雖然高齡但是就像大家常說的「退休但是不休」。這樣讓我們的高齡能在這個社會上貢獻，我們覺得「家有一老就是如一寶」，這樣子才是真正的對高齡有幫助。","我這邊的社團，每一個月都是去仁愛之家幫老人家剪頭髮，我們看到他們不是病死，是因為等不到人來看他，看不到孫子、看不到小孩，是悶死，你知道嗎？因此這一塊要怎麼樣去更完整？還有，我們春城委員的壯世代已經提出來，我們希望怎麼樣去照顧這群高齡，讓他們可以在專長上發揮，他們是一個資料庫，是可以幫助到我們下一代的，這個就是我們的需求，希望部長來支持我們壯世代的法案，以上報告，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝麥委員，謝謝部長、次長。","林岱樺委員、林岱樺委員，林岱樺委員不在。","林沛祥委員、林沛祥委員，林沛祥委員不在。","張啓楷委員、張啓楷委員，張啓楷委員不在。","林憶君委員、林憶君委員，林憶君委員不在。","顏寬恒委員、顏寬恒委員，顏寬恒委員不在。","謝衣鳯委員、謝衣鳯委員，謝衣鳯委員不在。","邱志偉委員、邱志偉委員，邱志偉委員不在。","林俊憲委員、林俊憲委員，林俊憲委員不在。","張嘉郡委員、張嘉郡委員，張嘉郡委員不在。","高金素梅委員、高金素梅委員，高金素梅委員不在。","廖先翔委員、廖先翔委員，廖先翔委員不在。","林楚茵委員、林楚茵委員，林楚茵委員不在。","陳超明委員、陳超明委員，陳超明委員不在。","接續我們請澎湖的楊曜委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":160,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-26,19-1","speakers":["蘇清泉","黃秀芳","邱議瑩","林月琴","王正旭","林淑芬","吳春城","陳昭姿","陳亭妃","鄭正鈐","廖偉翔","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","賴瑞隆","翁曉玲","劉建國","吳宗憲","洪孟楷","黃珊珊","林倩綺","林國成","涂權吉","蔡易餘","羅廷瑋","麥玉珍","楊曜","盧縣一","張嘉郡","陳超明","林憶君","邱志偉","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":63,"meetingDate":["2024-10-24"],"gazette_id":"1139001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查委員吳春城等42人擬具「壯世代政策與產業發展促進法草案」案","agenda_id":"1139001_00002"}}}