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\"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"瑾\", \"start\": 629.386, \"end\": 629.506, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 629.506, \"end\": 629.526, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 629.526, \"end\": 629.546, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 629.546, \"end\": 629.626, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"佩\", \"start\": 629.626, \"end\": 629.646, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"儀\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 629.646, \"end\": 629.666, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:00,909\n質詢。謝謝主席。請文化部李部長以及行政院人權及轉型正義處賴處長。好,有請李部長、賴處長。部長早安喔。嗨,陳委員你好。\n\n2\n00:00:22,926 --> 00:00:42,140\n我們促轉條例有明定,不義遺址保存是轉型正義任務之一。那促進正義轉型委員會在民國110年有公告審定228事件不義遺址有25處。111年公告審定白色恐怖不義遺址有17處。\n\n3\n00:00:43,901 --> 00:00:59,125\n在促轉會解散後,行政院有成立人權及轉型正義處。另外,保存不義遺址的事項是文化部來承接。請教部長,在促轉會解散之後,對我們的促進轉型正義的推動有沒有不利的影響?您覺得有沒有影響?促轉會解散之後,對我們整個促進轉型正義的推動,您覺得有沒有影響?\n\n4\n00:01:09,379 --> 00:01:31,381\n他結束以後把他的工作分給不同的部門我們所分到的這個文化部的部門就是不義遺址的已經登錄跟潛在的兩種我們就往下每一年照這個計畫做他有沒有影響我不知道因為在他成立的那段時間我個人完全沒有參加過任何一場座談會所以我不知道他有沒有影響\n\n5\n00:01:32,486 --> 00:01:40,018\n好,那我想請教賴處長,人行及轉型正義處你們實質的功能,你們真正的工作大概是做哪些項目?\n\n6\n00:01:44,281 --> 00:02:03,786\n跟委員檢要報告,我想在促攬條例兩年前配合促轉會的任務告於段落,那促攬條例當時其實就是明定行政院因涉推動轉型正義匯報,那所以在這個匯報的部分本處是作為院的推動轉型正義匯報的幕僚處,這是其一。\n\n7\n00:02:04,446 --> 00:02:27,003\n那第二的部分就是在匯報的召開相關的會議之外日常的業務的推動我想相關的工作由處長會一個獨立機關分散由主要六大部會來推動那院的人權處其實也需要在業務的日常中跟各個部會有許多的溝通協調甚至統合的工作在推動以上\n\n8\n00:02:27,705 --> 00:02:48,847\n好,謝謝處長。處長條例公佈實施到現在已經有6年,但是其實政府機關隊已經公告過潛在的不義遺址的調查保存,修復在利用的這些實際上的推動保存的相關作為比較不足,所以監察院在今年初也已經糾正。我想請教部長您覺得這是吳浩博的問題還是行政院的問題?\n\n9\n00:02:51,065 --> 00:03:04,493\n行政院剛剛有提到它每年有兩次的會報然後我們自己文化部才剛剛開過由政委所主持的這個會報那您剛剛講是誰的問題我想我們都非常努力在做\n\n10\n00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:05,740\n議員范雲等19人擬具\n\n11\n00:03:22,515 --> 00:03:46,141\n本期也很肯定發布你們有提出不義遺址保存條例這個草案來加速保存作為但是國家人權博物館從107年就已經制定推動不義遺址保存維護以及人權事務發展的補助要點幾次的修正雖然有增加對民間團體的補助但是對直轄市及縣市政府的補助每一年度每一個案補助計畫一直都是200萬這樣的金額您覺得會不會太低\n\n12\n00:03:52,922 --> 00:03:55,024\n其實這幾年從國家人權博物館這個補助金額從107年到113年總計補助給直轄市及縣市政府才1527\n\n13\n00:04:14,458 --> 00:04:33,211\n一萬多。那因為有修正所以呢博春民間團體總共是61萬。所以這樣子的金額來執行這樣的業務監察院要糾正。所以是不是說這樣子的金額不夠或者是說你們有怎樣的需求提出那行政院沒有支持?部長您覺得呢?\n\n14\n00:04:34,551 --> 00:04:59,181\n其實他們只要提出申請我們大概都會支持大概107年到113年我自己這邊有個數據高雄、台南、雲林這邊我們大概有46幾萬桃園我們大概485萬就是其實不如剛剛委員講那麼少啦我們大概都是四五百萬到六百萬那只要地方上提出來我們都盡量配合幫助他們\n\n15\n00:04:59,861 --> 00:05:09,168\n那麼部長,針對這個不義遺址的維護管理不當,年初監察院所提出的這個糾正,要求你們要檢討改善,你們有怎樣的改善措施?這個我來問一下好嗎?因為它是非常瑣碎的那種\n\n16\n00:05:19,295 --> 00:05:36,663\n您問的那個應該針對的是安康接待室。那安康接待室這個部分現在檢察院的意思是說我們在整個標案的進行上面的程序是不是有延後,那部分已經補正過來,現在的進度是符合進度的。如果指的是安康接待室的部分我們已經把它補正了。\n\n17\n00:05:37,483 --> 00:05:37,563\n﹝請審查委員﹞\n\n18\n00:05:58,314 --> 00:06:16,850\n在115年5月底解散的促轉會有說盤點出來107處的不義遺址並且已經有審定公告其中42處那還有六成就是有65處的待文化部這邊來接手處理但文化部你們現在的報告是說潛在不義遺址只有64處少了一處那是為什麼?是少了哪裡?那個潛在遺址一旦\n\n19\n00:06:25,376 --> 00:06:51,728\n我們潛在一直一直是有個審議委員會在審議那目前在我們文化不是64處並不是減掉一處應該是資訊有點問題我們一直是64處潛在不義遺址從接手的時候就是64處接手的時候就是64處所以他們交給你們的時候就是這個樣子當初他們的資料給你們是這樣那他們是當初他們的公告的資料有問題嗎?\n\n20\n00:06:52,817 --> 00:07:20,032\n這我就不曉得捏。其實我們已經非常努力地根據他交下來的這個遺址在做調查。但是中間你說65跟64的差別,我不太知道什麼原因。好,那沒關係。部長,潛在的不義遺址在彰化縣只有一處,那目前只有在元尼國城內的遠海軍反共先鋒訓練營是唯一的潛在不義遺址,目前的用途是住宅。我想請教部長,像這樣的潛在不義遺址未來該如何規劃跟運用?\n\n21\n00:07:22,038 --> 00:07:49,134\n這部分在我們的條例裡面有規定說只要是變成民宅之後我們就不能強迫他要做任何的改變但是我們會勸說他或者鼓勵他或者是幫助他你們會用勸說或是鼓勵的這樣子的方式嗎還有補助但是他如果堅持不要我們就尊重他好那麼原來的台灣省行政長官公署暨廣場就是我們現在的行政院縣址也是228事件的不義遺址但像這樣的地方我們未來會如何規劃跟運用\n\n22\n00:07:53,550 --> 00:07:58,132\n在促轉會說,不義遺址的審定標準是以證據完整度高、發生地明確、而且遺址的產權為公有者為原則。\n\n23\n00:08:16,900 --> 00:08:36,032\n所以今天的草案也只有針對公有不義遺址但是我想請教部長說對於私有的不義遺址我們除了剛剛講用鼓勵或者說補助的方式我們有沒有什麼其他更積極的做法因為原屬於私產的舉例像和平日報它也是潛在不義遺址那現在經過\n\n24\n00:08:38,453 --> 00:08:42,635\n台中的文資審議憲刊遭到判定他是說不具古蹟的歷史價值的意義的價值那現在真正掌管的這個文化部你們如果沒有比較積極的態度像這樣像和平日報這樣子的不義長址將來也可能就是在沒有配套的措施之下可能隨時遭到拆除那如果我們沒有比較積極的作為我們是不是會造成這些不義遺址漸漸的消失那我們沒有對這些\n\n25\n00:09:05,187 --> 00:09:08,881\n不義遺址的規範保護我們有沒有更積極的想法。\n\n26\n00:09:09,694 --> 00:09:35,589\n委員你問得非常好,就是我們對於這樣的是私人的我們沒有辦法強制的這種遺址我們就會用3D建模把它做好然後還有就是試著留下在網路上關於這個地址的一些事件發生的過程因為剛剛講說我們沒有辦法強制它做我們就做我們可以做的部分就是把它整個過去的樣子3D建模那這個部分我們一直在做\n\n27\n00:09:36,971 --> 00:10:00,102\n好謝謝部長我再借一分鐘齁那其實因為我時間到了但是我想要請教部長現在因為我們國家人權博物館有提供不義遺址的標示使用規範指引也編列相關的預算那我想請教部長說未來我們設置標示牌那麼我們如何也辦理相關的宣導以及這個教育的這些相關的配套\n\n28\n00:10:02,083 --> 00:10:07,348\n好,是不是部長之後再書面報告或是當面向我們那個委員回覆好嗎?可以嗎?可以書面嗎?因為我們整個人權管在教育這個部分已經做了很多不同的項目,我可以請他們給你書面。本席是肯定支持那個標示牌的設置啦,但是相關的你不是設置了之後我就不管它,我們如何就是相關的宣導以及教育的這些配套的措施我們要做。\n\n29\n00:10:27,705 --> 00:10:29,666\n我沒有走進校園在推廣這個,沒有問題。好,那謝謝部長,謝謝主席。那部長請回,謝謝陳秀寶委員的質詢。再來我們請林宜瑾委員質詢,然後吳佩儀委員質詢。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t909\t質詢。謝謝主席。請文化部李部長以及行政院人權及轉型正義處賴處長。好,有請李部長、賴處長。部長早安喔。嗨,陳委員你好。\n22926\t42140\t我們促轉條例有明定,不義遺址保存是轉型正義任務之一。那促進正義轉型委員會在民國110年有公告審定228事件不義遺址有25處。111年公告審定白色恐怖不義遺址有17處。\n43901\t59125\t在促轉會解散後,行政院有成立人權及轉型正義處。另外,保存不義遺址的事項是文化部來承接。請教部長,在促轉會解散之後,對我們的促進轉型正義的推動有沒有不利的影響?您覺得有沒有影響?促轉會解散之後,對我們整個促進轉型正義的推動,您覺得有沒有影響?\n69379\t91381\t他結束以後把他的工作分給不同的部門我們所分到的這個文化部的部門就是不義遺址的已經登錄跟潛在的兩種我們就往下每一年照這個計畫做他有沒有影響我不知道因為在他成立的那段時間我個人完全沒有參加過任何一場座談會所以我不知道他有沒有影響\n92486\t100018\t好,那我想請教賴處長,人行及轉型正義處你們實質的功能,你們真正的工作大概是做哪些項目?\n104281\t123786\t跟委員檢要報告,我想在促攬條例兩年前配合促轉會的任務告於段落,那促攬條例當時其實就是明定行政院因涉推動轉型正義匯報,那所以在這個匯報的部分本處是作為院的推動轉型正義匯報的幕僚處,這是其一。\n124446\t147003\t那第二的部分就是在匯報的召開相關的會議之外日常的業務的推動我想相關的工作由處長會一個獨立機關分散由主要六大部會來推動那院的人權處其實也需要在業務的日常中跟各個部會有許多的溝通協調甚至統合的工作在推動以上\n147705\t168847\t好,謝謝處長。處長條例公佈實施到現在已經有6年,但是其實政府機關隊已經公告過潛在的不義遺址的調查保存,修復在利用的這些實際上的推動保存的相關作為比較不足,所以監察院在今年初也已經糾正。我想請教部長您覺得這是吳浩博的問題還是行政院的問題?\n171065\t184493\t行政院剛剛有提到它每年有兩次的會報然後我們自己文化部才剛剛開過由政委所主持的這個會報那您剛剛講是誰的問題我想我們都非常努力在做\n185560\t185740\t議員范雲等19人擬具\n202515\t226141\t本期也很肯定發布你們有提出不義遺址保存條例這個草案來加速保存作為但是國家人權博物館從107年就已經制定推動不義遺址保存維護以及人權事務發展的補助要點幾次的修正雖然有增加對民間團體的補助但是對直轄市及縣市政府的補助每一年度每一個案補助計畫一直都是200萬這樣的金額您覺得會不會太低\n232922\t235024\t其實這幾年從國家人權博物館這個補助金額從107年到113年總計補助給直轄市及縣市政府才1527\n254458\t273211\t一萬多。那因為有修正所以呢博春民間團體總共是61萬。所以這樣子的金額來執行這樣的業務監察院要糾正。所以是不是說這樣子的金額不夠或者是說你們有怎樣的需求提出那行政院沒有支持?部長您覺得呢?\n274551\t299181\t其實他們只要提出申請我們大概都會支持大概107年到113年我自己這邊有個數據高雄、台南、雲林這邊我們大概有46幾萬桃園我們大概485萬就是其實不如剛剛委員講那麼少啦我們大概都是四五百萬到六百萬那只要地方上提出來我們都盡量配合幫助他們\n299861\t309168\t那麼部長,針對這個不義遺址的維護管理不當,年初監察院所提出的這個糾正,要求你們要檢討改善,你們有怎樣的改善措施?這個我來問一下好嗎?因為它是非常瑣碎的那種\n319295\t336663\t您問的那個應該針對的是安康接待室。那安康接待室這個部分現在檢察院的意思是說我們在整個標案的進行上面的程序是不是有延後,那部分已經補正過來,現在的進度是符合進度的。如果指的是安康接待室的部分我們已經把它補正了。\n337483\t337563\t﹝請審查委員﹞\n358314\t376850\t在115年5月底解散的促轉會有說盤點出來107處的不義遺址並且已經有審定公告其中42處那還有六成就是有65處的待文化部這邊來接手處理但文化部你們現在的報告是說潛在不義遺址只有64處少了一處那是為什麼?是少了哪裡?那個潛在遺址一旦\n385376\t411728\t我們潛在一直一直是有個審議委員會在審議那目前在我們文化不是64處並不是減掉一處應該是資訊有點問題我們一直是64處潛在不義遺址從接手的時候就是64處接手的時候就是64處所以他們交給你們的時候就是這個樣子當初他們的資料給你們是這樣那他們是當初他們的公告的資料有問題嗎?\n412817\t440032\t這我就不曉得捏。其實我們已經非常努力地根據他交下來的這個遺址在做調查。但是中間你說65跟64的差別,我不太知道什麼原因。好,那沒關係。部長,潛在的不義遺址在彰化縣只有一處,那目前只有在元尼國城內的遠海軍反共先鋒訓練營是唯一的潛在不義遺址,目前的用途是住宅。我想請教部長,像這樣的潛在不義遺址未來該如何規劃跟運用?\n442038\t469134\t這部分在我們的條例裡面有規定說只要是變成民宅之後我們就不能強迫他要做任何的改變但是我們會勸說他或者鼓勵他或者是幫助他你們會用勸說或是鼓勵的這樣子的方式嗎還有補助但是他如果堅持不要我們就尊重他好 那麼原來的台灣省行政長官公署暨廣場就是我們現在的行政院縣址也是228事件的不義遺址但像這樣的地方我們未來會如何規劃跟運用\n473550\t478132\t在促轉會說,不義遺址的審定標準是以證據完整度高、發生地明確、而且遺址的產權為公有者為原則。\n496900\t516032\t所以今天的草案也只有針對公有不義遺址但是我想請教部長說對於私有的不義遺址我們除了剛剛講用鼓勵或者說補助的方式我們有沒有什麼其他更積極的做法因為原屬於私產的舉例像和平日報它也是潛在不義遺址那現在經過\n518453\t522635\t台中的文資審議憲刊遭到判定他是說不具古蹟的歷史價值的意義的價值那現在真正掌管的這個文化部你們如果沒有比較積極的態度像這樣像和平日報這樣子的不義長址將來也可能就是在沒有配套的措施之下可能隨時遭到拆除那如果我們沒有比較積極的作為我們是不是會造成這些不義遺址漸漸的消失那我們沒有對這些\n545187\t548881\t不義遺址的規範保護我們有沒有更積極的想法。\n549694\t575589\t委員你問得非常好,就是我們對於這樣的是私人的我們沒有辦法強制的這種遺址我們就會用3D建模把它做好然後還有就是試著留下在網路上關於這個地址的一些事件發生的過程因為剛剛講說我們沒有辦法強制它做我們就做我們可以做的部分就是把它整個過去的樣子3D建模那這個部分我們一直在做\n576971\t600102\t好 謝謝部長我再借一分鐘齁那其實因為我時間到了但是我想要請教部長現在因為我們國家人權博物館有提供不義遺址的標示使用規範指引也編列相關的預算那我想請教部長說未來我們設置標示牌那麼我們如何也辦理相關的宣導以及這個教育的這些相關的配套\n602083\t607348\t好,是不是部長之後再書面報告或是當面向我們那個委員回覆好嗎?可以嗎?可以書面嗎?因為我們整個人權管在教育這個部分已經做了很多不同的項目,我可以請他們給你書面。本席是肯定支持那個標示牌的設置啦,但是相關的你不是設置了之後我就不管它,我們如何就是相關的宣導以及教育的這些配套的措施我們要做。\n627705\t629666\t我沒有走進校園在推廣這個,沒有問題。好,那謝謝部長,謝謝主席。那部長請回,謝謝陳秀寶委員的質詢。再來我們請林宜瑾委員質詢,然後吳佩儀委員質詢。\n","txt":"質詢。謝謝主席。請文化部李部長以及行政院人權及轉型正義處賴處長。好,有請李部長、賴處長。部長早安喔。嗨,陳委員你好。\n我們促轉條例有明定,不義遺址保存是轉型正義任務之一。那促進正義轉型委員會在民國110年有公告審定228事件不義遺址有25處。111年公告審定白色恐怖不義遺址有17處。\n在促轉會解散後,行政院有成立人權及轉型正義處。另外,保存不義遺址的事項是文化部來承接。請教部長,在促轉會解散之後,對我們的促進轉型正義的推動有沒有不利的影響?您覺得有沒有影響?促轉會解散之後,對我們整個促進轉型正義的推動,您覺得有沒有影響?\n他結束以後把他的工作分給不同的部門我們所分到的這個文化部的部門就是不義遺址的已經登錄跟潛在的兩種我們就往下每一年照這個計畫做他有沒有影響我不知道因為在他成立的那段時間我個人完全沒有參加過任何一場座談會所以我不知道他有沒有影響\n好,那我想請教賴處長,人行及轉型正義處你們實質的功能,你們真正的工作大概是做哪些項目?\n跟委員檢要報告,我想在促攬條例兩年前配合促轉會的任務告於段落,那促攬條例當時其實就是明定行政院因涉推動轉型正義匯報,那所以在這個匯報的部分本處是作為院的推動轉型正義匯報的幕僚處,這是其一。\n那第二的部分就是在匯報的召開相關的會議之外日常的業務的推動我想相關的工作由處長會一個獨立機關分散由主要六大部會來推動那院的人權處其實也需要在業務的日常中跟各個部會有許多的溝通協調甚至統合的工作在推動以上\n好,謝謝處長。處長條例公佈實施到現在已經有6年,但是其實政府機關隊已經公告過潛在的不義遺址的調查保存,修復在利用的這些實際上的推動保存的相關作為比較不足,所以監察院在今年初也已經糾正。我想請教部長您覺得這是吳浩博的問題還是行政院的問題?\n行政院剛剛有提到它每年有兩次的會報然後我們自己文化部才剛剛開過由政委所主持的這個會報那您剛剛講是誰的問題我想我們都非常努力在做\n議員范雲等19人擬具\n本期也很肯定發布你們有提出不義遺址保存條例這個草案來加速保存作為但是國家人權博物館從107年就已經制定推動不義遺址保存維護以及人權事務發展的補助要點幾次的修正雖然有增加對民間團體的補助但是對直轄市及縣市政府的補助每一年度每一個案補助計畫一直都是200萬這樣的金額您覺得會不會太低\n其實這幾年從國家人權博物館這個補助金額從107年到113年總計補助給直轄市及縣市政府才1527\n一萬多。那因為有修正所以呢博春民間團體總共是61萬。所以這樣子的金額來執行這樣的業務監察院要糾正。所以是不是說這樣子的金額不夠或者是說你們有怎樣的需求提出那行政院沒有支持?部長您覺得呢?\n其實他們只要提出申請我們大概都會支持大概107年到113年我自己這邊有個數據高雄、台南、雲林這邊我們大概有46幾萬桃園我們大概485萬就是其實不如剛剛委員講那麼少啦我們大概都是四五百萬到六百萬那只要地方上提出來我們都盡量配合幫助他們\n那麼部長,針對這個不義遺址的維護管理不當,年初監察院所提出的這個糾正,要求你們要檢討改善,你們有怎樣的改善措施?這個我來問一下好嗎?因為它是非常瑣碎的那種\n您問的那個應該針對的是安康接待室。那安康接待室這個部分現在檢察院的意思是說我們在整個標案的進行上面的程序是不是有延後,那部分已經補正過來,現在的進度是符合進度的。如果指的是安康接待室的部分我們已經把它補正了。\n﹝請審查委員﹞\n在115年5月底解散的促轉會有說盤點出來107處的不義遺址並且已經有審定公告其中42處那還有六成就是有65處的待文化部這邊來接手處理但文化部你們現在的報告是說潛在不義遺址只有64處少了一處那是為什麼?是少了哪裡?那個潛在遺址一旦\n我們潛在一直一直是有個審議委員會在審議那目前在我們文化不是64處並不是減掉一處應該是資訊有點問題我們一直是64處潛在不義遺址從接手的時候就是64處接手的時候就是64處所以他們交給你們的時候就是這個樣子當初他們的資料給你們是這樣那他們是當初他們的公告的資料有問題嗎?\n這我就不曉得捏。其實我們已經非常努力地根據他交下來的這個遺址在做調查。但是中間你說65跟64的差別,我不太知道什麼原因。好,那沒關係。部長,潛在的不義遺址在彰化縣只有一處,那目前只有在元尼國城內的遠海軍反共先鋒訓練營是唯一的潛在不義遺址,目前的用途是住宅。我想請教部長,像這樣的潛在不義遺址未來該如何規劃跟運用?\n這部分在我們的條例裡面有規定說只要是變成民宅之後我們就不能強迫他要做任何的改變但是我們會勸說他或者鼓勵他或者是幫助他你們會用勸說或是鼓勵的這樣子的方式嗎還有補助但是他如果堅持不要我們就尊重他好 那麼原來的台灣省行政長官公署暨廣場就是我們現在的行政院縣址也是228事件的不義遺址但像這樣的地方我們未來會如何規劃跟運用\n在促轉會說,不義遺址的審定標準是以證據完整度高、發生地明確、而且遺址的產權為公有者為原則。\n所以今天的草案也只有針對公有不義遺址但是我想請教部長說對於私有的不義遺址我們除了剛剛講用鼓勵或者說補助的方式我們有沒有什麼其他更積極的做法因為原屬於私產的舉例像和平日報它也是潛在不義遺址那現在經過\n台中的文資審議憲刊遭到判定他是說不具古蹟的歷史價值的意義的價值那現在真正掌管的這個文化部你們如果沒有比較積極的態度像這樣像和平日報這樣子的不義長址將來也可能就是在沒有配套的措施之下可能隨時遭到拆除那如果我們沒有比較積極的作為我們是不是會造成這些不義遺址漸漸的消失那我們沒有對這些\n不義遺址的規範保護我們有沒有更積極的想法。\n委員你問得非常好,就是我們對於這樣的是私人的我們沒有辦法強制的這種遺址我們就會用3D建模把它做好然後還有就是試著留下在網路上關於這個地址的一些事件發生的過程因為剛剛講說我們沒有辦法強制它做我們就做我們可以做的部分就是把它整個過去的樣子3D建模那這個部分我們一直在做\n好 謝謝部長我再借一分鐘齁那其實因為我時間到了但是我想要請教部長現在因為我們國家人權博物館有提供不義遺址的標示使用規範指引也編列相關的預算那我想請教部長說未來我們設置標示牌那麼我們如何也辦理相關的宣導以及這個教育的這些相關的配套\n好,是不是部長之後再書面報告或是當面向我們那個委員回覆好嗎?可以嗎?可以書面嗎?因為我們整個人權管在教育這個部分已經做了很多不同的項目,我可以請他們給你書面。本席是肯定支持那個標示牌的設置啦,但是相關的你不是設置了之後我就不管它,我們如何就是相關的宣導以及教育的這些配套的措施我們要做。\n我沒有走進校園在推廣這個,沒有問題。好,那謝謝部長,謝謝主席。那部長請回,謝謝陳秀寶委員的質詢。再來我們請林宜瑾委員質詢,然後吳佩儀委員質詢。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:00.909\n質詢。謝謝主席。請文化部李部長以及行政院人權及轉型正義處賴處長。好,有請李部長、賴處長。部長早安喔。嗨,陳委員你好。\n\n00:22.926 --> 00:42.140\n我們促轉條例有明定,不義遺址保存是轉型正義任務之一。那促進正義轉型委員會在民國110年有公告審定228事件不義遺址有25處。111年公告審定白色恐怖不義遺址有17處。\n\n00:43.901 --> 00:59.125\n在促轉會解散後,行政院有成立人權及轉型正義處。另外,保存不義遺址的事項是文化部來承接。請教部長,在促轉會解散之後,對我們的促進轉型正義的推動有沒有不利的影響?您覺得有沒有影響?促轉會解散之後,對我們整個促進轉型正義的推動,您覺得有沒有影響?\n\n01:09.379 --> 01:31.381\n他結束以後把他的工作分給不同的部門我們所分到的這個文化部的部門就是不義遺址的已經登錄跟潛在的兩種我們就往下每一年照這個計畫做他有沒有影響我不知道因為在他成立的那段時間我個人完全沒有參加過任何一場座談會所以我不知道他有沒有影響\n\n01:32.486 --> 01:40.018\n好,那我想請教賴處長,人行及轉型正義處你們實質的功能,你們真正的工作大概是做哪些項目?\n\n01:44.281 --> 02:03.786\n跟委員檢要報告,我想在促攬條例兩年前配合促轉會的任務告於段落,那促攬條例當時其實就是明定行政院因涉推動轉型正義匯報,那所以在這個匯報的部分本處是作為院的推動轉型正義匯報的幕僚處,這是其一。\n\n02:04.446 --> 02:27.003\n那第二的部分就是在匯報的召開相關的會議之外日常的業務的推動我想相關的工作由處長會一個獨立機關分散由主要六大部會來推動那院的人權處其實也需要在業務的日常中跟各個部會有許多的溝通協調甚至統合的工作在推動以上\n\n02:27.705 --> 02:48.847\n好,謝謝處長。處長條例公佈實施到現在已經有6年,但是其實政府機關隊已經公告過潛在的不義遺址的調查保存,修復在利用的這些實際上的推動保存的相關作為比較不足,所以監察院在今年初也已經糾正。我想請教部長您覺得這是吳浩博的問題還是行政院的問題?\n\n02:51.065 --> 03:04.493\n行政院剛剛有提到它每年有兩次的會報然後我們自己文化部才剛剛開過由政委所主持的這個會報那您剛剛講是誰的問題我想我們都非常努力在做\n\n03:05.560 --> 03:05.740\n議員范雲等19人擬具\n\n03:22.515 --> 03:46.141\n本期也很肯定發布你們有提出不義遺址保存條例這個草案來加速保存作為但是國家人權博物館從107年就已經制定推動不義遺址保存維護以及人權事務發展的補助要點幾次的修正雖然有增加對民間團體的補助但是對直轄市及縣市政府的補助每一年度每一個案補助計畫一直都是200萬這樣的金額您覺得會不會太低\n\n03:52.922 --> 03:55.024\n其實這幾年從國家人權博物館這個補助金額從107年到113年總計補助給直轄市及縣市政府才1527\n\n04:14.458 --> 04:33.211\n一萬多。那因為有修正所以呢博春民間團體總共是61萬。所以這樣子的金額來執行這樣的業務監察院要糾正。所以是不是說這樣子的金額不夠或者是說你們有怎樣的需求提出那行政院沒有支持?部長您覺得呢?\n\n04:34.551 --> 04:59.181\n其實他們只要提出申請我們大概都會支持大概107年到113年我自己這邊有個數據高雄、台南、雲林這邊我們大概有46幾萬桃園我們大概485萬就是其實不如剛剛委員講那麼少啦我們大概都是四五百萬到六百萬那只要地方上提出來我們都盡量配合幫助他們\n\n04:59.861 --> 05:09.168\n那麼部長,針對這個不義遺址的維護管理不當,年初監察院所提出的這個糾正,要求你們要檢討改善,你們有怎樣的改善措施?這個我來問一下好嗎?因為它是非常瑣碎的那種\n\n05:19.295 --> 05:36.663\n您問的那個應該針對的是安康接待室。那安康接待室這個部分現在檢察院的意思是說我們在整個標案的進行上面的程序是不是有延後,那部分已經補正過來,現在的進度是符合進度的。如果指的是安康接待室的部分我們已經把它補正了。\n\n05:37.483 --> 05:37.563\n﹝請審查委員﹞\n\n05:58.314 --> 06:16.850\n在115年5月底解散的促轉會有說盤點出來107處的不義遺址並且已經有審定公告其中42處那還有六成就是有65處的待文化部這邊來接手處理但文化部你們現在的報告是說潛在不義遺址只有64處少了一處那是為什麼?是少了哪裡?那個潛在遺址一旦\n\n06:25.376 --> 06:51.728\n我們潛在一直一直是有個審議委員會在審議那目前在我們文化不是64處並不是減掉一處應該是資訊有點問題我們一直是64處潛在不義遺址從接手的時候就是64處接手的時候就是64處所以他們交給你們的時候就是這個樣子當初他們的資料給你們是這樣那他們是當初他們的公告的資料有問題嗎?\n\n06:52.817 --> 07:20.032\n這我就不曉得捏。其實我們已經非常努力地根據他交下來的這個遺址在做調查。但是中間你說65跟64的差別,我不太知道什麼原因。好,那沒關係。部長,潛在的不義遺址在彰化縣只有一處,那目前只有在元尼國城內的遠海軍反共先鋒訓練營是唯一的潛在不義遺址,目前的用途是住宅。我想請教部長,像這樣的潛在不義遺址未來該如何規劃跟運用?\n\n07:22.038 --> 07:49.134\n這部分在我們的條例裡面有規定說只要是變成民宅之後我們就不能強迫他要做任何的改變但是我們會勸說他或者鼓勵他或者是幫助他你們會用勸說或是鼓勵的這樣子的方式嗎還有補助但是他如果堅持不要我們就尊重他好那麼原來的台灣省行政長官公署暨廣場就是我們現在的行政院縣址也是228事件的不義遺址但像這樣的地方我們未來會如何規劃跟運用\n\n07:53.550 --> 07:58.132\n在促轉會說,不義遺址的審定標準是以證據完整度高、發生地明確、而且遺址的產權為公有者為原則。\n\n08:16.900 --> 08:36.032\n所以今天的草案也只有針對公有不義遺址但是我想請教部長說對於私有的不義遺址我們除了剛剛講用鼓勵或者說補助的方式我們有沒有什麼其他更積極的做法因為原屬於私產的舉例像和平日報它也是潛在不義遺址那現在經過\n\n08:38.453 --> 08:42.635\n台中的文資審議憲刊遭到判定他是說不具古蹟的歷史價值的意義的價值那現在真正掌管的這個文化部你們如果沒有比較積極的態度像這樣像和平日報這樣子的不義長址將來也可能就是在沒有配套的措施之下可能隨時遭到拆除那如果我們沒有比較積極的作為我們是不是會造成這些不義遺址漸漸的消失那我們沒有對這些\n\n09:05.187 --> 09:08.881\n不義遺址的規範保護我們有沒有更積極的想法。\n\n09:09.694 --> 09:35.589\n委員你問得非常好,就是我們對於這樣的是私人的我們沒有辦法強制的這種遺址我們就會用3D建模把它做好然後還有就是試著留下在網路上關於這個地址的一些事件發生的過程因為剛剛講說我們沒有辦法強制它做我們就做我們可以做的部分就是把它整個過去的樣子3D建模那這個部分我們一直在做\n\n09:36.971 --> 10:00.102\n好謝謝部長我再借一分鐘齁那其實因為我時間到了但是我想要請教部長現在因為我們國家人權博物館有提供不義遺址的標示使用規範指引也編列相關的預算那我想請教部長說未來我們設置標示牌那麼我們如何也辦理相關的宣導以及這個教育的這些相關的配套\n\n10:02.083 --> 10:07.348\n好,是不是部長之後再書面報告或是當面向我們那個委員回覆好嗎?可以嗎?可以書面嗎?因為我們整個人權管在教育這個部分已經做了很多不同的項目,我可以請他們給你書面。本席是肯定支持那個標示牌的設置啦,但是相關的你不是設置了之後我就不管它,我們如何就是相關的宣導以及教育的這些配套的措施我們要做。\n\n10:27.705 --> 10:29.666\n我沒有走進校園在推廣這個,沒有問題。好,那謝謝部長,謝謝主席。那部長請回,謝謝陳秀寶委員的質詢。再來我們請林宜瑾委員質詢,然後吳佩儀委員質詢。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":0.909,"text":"質詢。謝謝主席。請文化部李部長以及行政院人權及轉型正義處賴處長。好,有請李部長、賴處長。部長早安喔。嗨,陳委員你好。"},{"start":22.926,"end":42.14,"text":"我們促轉條例有明定,不義遺址保存是轉型正義任務之一。那促進正義轉型委員會在民國110年有公告審定228事件不義遺址有25處。111年公告審定白色恐怖不義遺址有17處。"},{"start":43.901,"end":59.125,"text":"在促轉會解散後,行政院有成立人權及轉型正義處。另外,保存不義遺址的事項是文化部來承接。請教部長,在促轉會解散之後,對我們的促進轉型正義的推動有沒有不利的影響?您覺得有沒有影響?促轉會解散之後,對我們整個促進轉型正義的推動,您覺得有沒有影響?"},{"start":69.379,"end":91.381,"text":"他結束以後把他的工作分給不同的部門我們所分到的這個文化部的部門就是不義遺址的已經登錄跟潛在的兩種我們就往下每一年照這個計畫做他有沒有影響我不知道因為在他成立的那段時間我個人完全沒有參加過任何一場座談會所以我不知道他有沒有影響"},{"start":92.486,"end":100.018,"text":"好,那我想請教賴處長,人行及轉型正義處你們實質的功能,你們真正的工作大概是做哪些項目?"},{"start":104.281,"end":123.786,"text":"跟委員檢要報告,我想在促攬條例兩年前配合促轉會的任務告於段落,那促攬條例當時其實就是明定行政院因涉推動轉型正義匯報,那所以在這個匯報的部分本處是作為院的推動轉型正義匯報的幕僚處,這是其一。"},{"start":124.446,"end":147.003,"text":"那第二的部分就是在匯報的召開相關的會議之外日常的業務的推動我想相關的工作由處長會一個獨立機關分散由主要六大部會來推動那院的人權處其實也需要在業務的日常中跟各個部會有許多的溝通協調甚至統合的工作在推動以上"},{"start":147.705,"end":168.847,"text":"好,謝謝處長。處長條例公佈實施到現在已經有6年,但是其實政府機關隊已經公告過潛在的不義遺址的調查保存,修復在利用的這些實際上的推動保存的相關作為比較不足,所以監察院在今年初也已經糾正。我想請教部長您覺得這是吳浩博的問題還是行政院的問題?"},{"start":171.065,"end":184.493,"text":"行政院剛剛有提到它每年有兩次的會報然後我們自己文化部才剛剛開過由政委所主持的這個會報那您剛剛講是誰的問題我想我們都非常努力在做"},{"start":185.56,"end":185.74,"text":"議員范雲等19人擬具"},{"start":202.515,"end":226.141,"text":"本期也很肯定發布你們有提出不義遺址保存條例這個草案來加速保存作為但是國家人權博物館從107年就已經制定推動不義遺址保存維護以及人權事務發展的補助要點幾次的修正雖然有增加對民間團體的補助但是對直轄市及縣市政府的補助每一年度每一個案補助計畫一直都是200萬這樣的金額您覺得會不會太低"},{"start":232.922,"end":235.024,"text":"其實這幾年從國家人權博物館這個補助金額從107年到113年總計補助給直轄市及縣市政府才1527"},{"start":254.458,"end":273.211,"text":"一萬多。那因為有修正所以呢博春民間團體總共是61萬。所以這樣子的金額來執行這樣的業務監察院要糾正。所以是不是說這樣子的金額不夠或者是說你們有怎樣的需求提出那行政院沒有支持?部長您覺得呢?"},{"start":274.551,"end":299.181,"text":"其實他們只要提出申請我們大概都會支持大概107年到113年我自己這邊有個數據高雄、台南、雲林這邊我們大概有46幾萬桃園我們大概485萬就是其實不如剛剛委員講那麼少啦我們大概都是四五百萬到六百萬那只要地方上提出來我們都盡量配合幫助他們"},{"start":299.861,"end":309.168,"text":"那麼部長,針對這個不義遺址的維護管理不當,年初監察院所提出的這個糾正,要求你們要檢討改善,你們有怎樣的改善措施?這個我來問一下好嗎?因為它是非常瑣碎的那種"},{"start":319.295,"end":336.663,"text":"您問的那個應該針對的是安康接待室。那安康接待室這個部分現在檢察院的意思是說我們在整個標案的進行上面的程序是不是有延後,那部分已經補正過來,現在的進度是符合進度的。如果指的是安康接待室的部分我們已經把它補正了。"},{"start":337.483,"end":337.563,"text":" ﹝請審查委員﹞"},{"start":358.314,"end":376.85,"text":"在115年5月底解散的促轉會有說盤點出來107處的不義遺址並且已經有審定公告其中42處那還有六成就是有65處的待文化部這邊來接手處理但文化部你們現在的報告是說潛在不義遺址只有64處少了一處那是為什麼?是少了哪裡?那個潛在遺址一旦"},{"start":385.376,"end":411.728,"text":"我們潛在一直一直是有個審議委員會在審議那目前在我們文化不是64處並不是減掉一處應該是資訊有點問題我們一直是64處潛在不義遺址從接手的時候就是64處接手的時候就是64處所以他們交給你們的時候就是這個樣子當初他們的資料給你們是這樣那他們是當初他們的公告的資料有問題嗎?"},{"start":412.817,"end":440.032,"text":"這我就不曉得捏。其實我們已經非常努力地根據他交下來的這個遺址在做調查。但是中間你說65跟64的差別,我不太知道什麼原因。好,那沒關係。部長,潛在的不義遺址在彰化縣只有一處,那目前只有在元尼國城內的遠海軍反共先鋒訓練營是唯一的潛在不義遺址,目前的用途是住宅。我想請教部長,像這樣的潛在不義遺址未來該如何規劃跟運用?"},{"start":442.038,"end":469.134,"text":"這部分在我們的條例裡面有規定說只要是變成民宅之後我們就不能強迫他要做任何的改變但是我們會勸說他或者鼓勵他或者是幫助他你們會用勸說或是鼓勵的這樣子的方式嗎還有補助但是他如果堅持不要我們就尊重他好 那麼原來的台灣省行政長官公署暨廣場就是我們現在的行政院縣址也是228事件的不義遺址但像這樣的地方我們未來會如何規劃跟運用"},{"start":473.55,"end":478.132,"text":"在促轉會說,不義遺址的審定標準是以證據完整度高、發生地明確、而且遺址的產權為公有者為原則。"},{"start":496.9,"end":516.032,"text":"所以今天的草案也只有針對公有不義遺址但是我想請教部長說對於私有的不義遺址我們除了剛剛講用鼓勵或者說補助的方式我們有沒有什麼其他更積極的做法因為原屬於私產的舉例像和平日報它也是潛在不義遺址那現在經過"},{"start":518.453,"end":522.635,"text":"台中的文資審議憲刊遭到判定他是說不具古蹟的歷史價值的意義的價值那現在真正掌管的這個文化部你們如果沒有比較積極的態度像這樣像和平日報這樣子的不義長址將來也可能就是在沒有配套的措施之下可能隨時遭到拆除那如果我們沒有比較積極的作為我們是不是會造成這些不義遺址漸漸的消失那我們沒有對這些"},{"start":545.187,"end":548.881,"text":"不義遺址的規範保護我們有沒有更積極的想法。"},{"start":549.694,"end":575.589,"text":"委員你問得非常好,就是我們對於這樣的是私人的我們沒有辦法強制的這種遺址我們就會用3D建模把它做好然後還有就是試著留下在網路上關於這個地址的一些事件發生的過程因為剛剛講說我們沒有辦法強制它做我們就做我們可以做的部分就是把它整個過去的樣子3D建模那這個部分我們一直在做"},{"start":576.971,"end":600.102,"text":"好 謝謝部長我再借一分鐘齁那其實因為我時間到了但是我想要請教部長現在因為我們國家人權博物館有提供不義遺址的標示使用規範指引也編列相關的預算那我想請教部長說未來我們設置標示牌那麼我們如何也辦理相關的宣導以及這個教育的這些相關的配套"},{"start":602.083,"end":607.348,"text":"好,是不是部長之後再書面報告或是當面向我們那個委員回覆好嗎?可以嗎?可以書面嗎?因為我們整個人權管在教育這個部分已經做了很多不同的項目,我可以請他們給你書面。本席是肯定支持那個標示牌的設置啦,但是相關的你不是設置了之後我就不管它,我們如何就是相關的宣導以及教育的這些配套的措施我們要做。"},{"start":627.705,"end":629.666,"text":"我沒有走進校園在推廣這個,沒有問題。好,那謝謝部長,謝謝主席。那部長請回,謝謝陳秀寶委員的質詢。再來我們請林宜瑾委員質詢,然後吳佩儀委員質詢。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":252,"blocks":[["陳委員秀寳：（10時3分）謝謝主席，請文化部李部長以及行政院人權及轉型正義處賴處長。"],["主席：有請李部長、賴處長。"],["陳委員秀寳：部長早安。"],["李部長遠：陳委員你好。"],["陳委員秀寳：促轉條例有明定，不義遺址之保存是轉型正義的任務之一，促進正義轉型委員會在民國110年公告審定二二八事件不義遺址有25處，111年公告審定白色恐怖不義遺址有17處，在促轉會解散後，行政院這邊成立人權及轉型正義處，另外，保存不義遺址的事項是由文化部來承接。請教部長，促轉會解散之後，對我們促進轉型正義的推動有沒有不利的影響，您覺得有沒有影響？促轉會解散之後，對我們整個促進轉型正義的推動，您覺得有沒有影響？"],["李部長遠：它結束以後，把它的工作分給不同的部門，我們文化部所分到的部分，就是已經登錄的跟潛在的不義遺址兩種，我們就往下，每一年照這個計畫做。有沒有影響我不知道，因為在它成立的那段時間，我個人完全沒有參加過任何一場座談會，所以我不知道有沒有影響。"],["陳委員秀寳：好，那我想請教賴處長，你們人權及轉型正義處實質的功能，你們真正的工作是做哪些項目？"],["賴處長俊兆：跟委員簡要報告，配合促轉會的任務告一段落，促轉條例在兩年前當時就明定行政院應設推動轉型正義會報，所以就這個會報的部分，本處是作為院的推動轉型正義會報的幕僚處，這是其一。第二個部分，就是在會報召開相關的會議之外，日常業務的推動，我想相關的工作由促轉會一個獨立機關分散由主要六大部會來推動，那院的人權處其實也需要在日常的業務中，跟各個部會進行許多的溝通、協調，甚至統合的工作在推動。以上。"],["陳委員秀寳：好，謝謝處長。促轉條例公布實施到現在已經有6年，但是其實政府機關對已經公告或潛在的不義遺址的調查、保存、修復再利用等等，實際上推動保存的相關作為比較不足，所以監察院在今年初也已經糾正。我想請教部長，您覺得這是文化部的問題，還是行政院的問題？"],["李部長遠：剛才有提到行政院每年有兩次會報，然後我們文化部自己才剛剛開過由政委所主持的會報，您剛剛問是誰的問題，我想我們都非常努力在做，就是屬於文化部該做的部分，我們一直在往下，屬於潛在遺址的調查，還有現有遺址的保存，我們一直在做……"],["陳委員秀寳：部長的意思是說，你們承接下來的這些工作、這些任務，你們都已經有很認真的在做？"],["李部長遠：有，我們可以給委員一個報告，我們……"],["陳委員秀寳：本席也很肯定文化部你們有提出「不義遺址保存條例」草案，來加速保存作為，但是國家人權博物館從107年就已經制定「推動不義遺址保存維護與人權事務發展補助作業要點」，幾次的修正雖然有增加對民間團體的補助，但是對直轄市及縣市政府的補助，每一年度每一個案補助計畫一直都是200萬，這樣的金額您覺得會不會太低？"],["李部長遠：我說不上來會不會太低，我只知道，我們人權館本身有一直在用各種方式推廣人權，但是補助到地方上的錢到底夠不夠多，我……"],["陳委員秀寳：其實這幾年，國家人權博物館的補助金額，從107年到113年，總計補助給直轄市及縣市政府的才1,527萬多，因為有修正，所以補助民間團體的總共是61萬，這樣子的金額來執行這樣的業務，監察院要糾正，所以是不是說這樣子的金額不夠，或者是說你們有提出怎樣的需求，那行政院沒有支持，部長，您覺得呢？"],["李部長遠：其實他們只要提出申請，我們大概都會支持。在107年到113年，我自己這邊有個數據，高雄、臺南、雲林這邊，我們大概有460幾萬；桃園我們大概485萬，其實不如剛剛委員講的那麼少，我們大概都是4、500萬到600萬，只要地方上提出來，我們都儘量配合幫助他們。"],["陳委員秀寳：部長，針對不義遺址的維護管理不當，年初監察院所提出的糾正，要求你們要檢討改善，你們有怎樣的改善措施？"],["李部長遠：這個我還要問一下，好嗎？因為它是非常瑣碎的那種。"],["陳委員秀寳：這樣子好了，這個您會後再給我辦公室……"],["王次長時思：不好意思，委員，您剛剛問的那個應該針對的是安康接待室。安康接待室這個部分，現在監察院的意思是說，我們在整個標案的進行上面的程序是不是有延後，那部分已經補正過來，現在的進度是符合預期的，如果指的是安康接待室的部分，我們已經把它補正了。如果是其他縣市政府的，因為其實除了預算之外，其他縣市政府只要有來做這類的申請，我們還是會幫他找錢，因為在轉型正義的這個基金裡面，還有其他的錢可以運用，它並不編列在文化部的預算……"],["陳委員秀寳：是不是會後請你們文化部整理一下，歷年來縣市政府所申請的跟你們所補助的部分，整理一份資料給我辦公室，好嗎？"],["王次長時思：可以。"],["陳委員秀寳：在111年5月底解散的促轉會有說，共盤點出107處不義遺址並且審定公告其中42處，但仍有六成（65處）有待文化部接手處理，但文化部你們今天的報告說潛在不義遺址只有64處，少了1處，那是為什麼？是少了哪裡？"],["李部長遠：我們潛在遺址一直是由審議委員會在審議，目前在我們文化部是64處，並不是減掉1處，應該是資訊有點問題，我們一直是64處潛在不義遺址，從接手的時候就是64處。"],["陳委員秀寳：接手的時候就是64處？所以他們交給你們的時候就是這個樣子？"],["李部長遠：是。"],["陳委員秀寳：當初他們給你們的資料是這樣，那是當初他們公告的資料有問題嗎？"],["李部長遠：這個我就不曉得。其實我們已經非常努力地根據他交下來的這個遺址在做調查，但是你說這中間65跟64的差別，我不太知道是什麼原因。"],["陳委員秀寳：好，沒關係。部長，潛在的不義遺址在彰化縣只有一處，在員林國小內的原海軍反共先鋒訓練營是唯一的潛在不義遺址，目前的用途是住宅，我想請教部長，像這樣的潛在不義遺址未來該如何規劃跟運用？"],["李部長遠：這個部分在我們的條例裡面有規定，只要是變成民宅之後，我們就不能強迫他做任何的改變，但是我們會勸說他、鼓勵他或者是幫助他。"],["陳委員秀寳：你們會用勸說或是鼓勵這樣的方式嗎？"],["李部長遠：對，還有補助，但是他如果堅持不要，我們就尊重他。"],["陳委員秀寳：好，那麼原來的臺灣省行政長官公署暨廣場，就是我們現在行政院的現址，也是228事件的不義遺址，像這樣的地方，我們未來會如何規劃跟運用？"],["李部長遠：在行政院我們已經立牌。"],["陳委員秀寳：我們會立標示牌？"],["李部長遠：對，我們已經率先在行政院立了牌，而且在網路上可以找到它的故事跟過程。"],["陳委員秀寳：再來，促轉會說不義遺址的審定標準是以證據完整度高、發生地明確而且遺址的產權為公有者為原則，所以今天的草案也只有針對公有不義遺址，但是我想請教部長，對於私有的不義遺址，我們除了剛剛講用鼓勵或者補助的方式，我們有沒有什麼其他更積極的作法？因為原屬於私產的，我舉例像和平日報，它也是潛在不義遺址，現在經過臺中的文資審議會現勘，遭判定不具古蹟的歷史價值意義，現在真正掌管這個部分的文化部如果沒有比較積極的態度，像和平日報這樣的不義場址將來也可能在沒有配套的措施之下隨時遭到拆除，如果我們沒有比較積極的作為，是不是會造成這些不義遺址漸漸的消失，那我們對這些不義遺址的規範和保護有沒有更積極的想法？"],["李部長遠：委員，你問得非常好，我們對於私人的、我們沒有辦法強制的這種遺址，我們就會做好3D建模，還有就是試著在網路上留下關於這個地址的一些事件發生的過程，因為就像剛剛講的，我們沒有辦法強制他做，我們就做我們可以做的部分，就是把它整個過去的樣子做3D建模，這個部分我們一直在做。"],["陳委員秀寳：好，謝謝部長，我再借1分鐘，其實我的時間到了，但是我想要請教部長，現在我們國家人權博物館有提供「不義遺址標示使用規範指引」，也編列相關的預算，那我想請教部長，未來我們設置標示牌，那麼我們如何辦理相關的宣導以及教育的相關配套？"],["主席：好，是不是部長之後再提書面報告或是當面向委員回復？"],["李部長遠：可以嗎？可以提書面嗎？因為我們整個人權館在教育這個部分已經做了很多不同的項目，我可以請他們給委員書面。"],["陳委員秀寳：本席是肯定、支持標示牌的設置，但是並不是設置了之後就不管它，我們要做相關的宣導以及教育的這些配套措施，這樣才能讓民眾了解，除了設置在那邊的告示牌之外，它是具有歷史的意義。"],["李部長遠：是，我們有走進校園在推廣這個，沒有問題。"],["陳委員秀寳：好，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["李部長遠：謝謝。"],["主席：部長請回，謝謝陳秀寳委員的質詢。再來我們請林宜瑾委員質詢，然後等一下在吳沛憶委員質詢完之後，我們休息5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":50,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-6","speakers":["范雲","黃捷","洪孟楷","林倩綺","柯志恩","陳培瑜","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","萬美玲","郭昱晴","張雅琳","葉元之","羅廷瑋","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","高金素梅","翁曉玲","吳春城"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-10-30"],"gazette_id":"1139201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「不義遺址保存條例草案」案；二、審查委員范雲等17人擬具「不義遺\n址保存條例草案」案；三、審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等18人擬具「不義遺址保存條例草案」\n案；四、審查委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「不義遺址保存條例草案」案；五、審查委員蔡易餘等18人\n擬具「不義遺址保存條例草案」案；六、審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「不義遺址保存條例草案」\n案；七、審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「人權紀念場址保存條例草案」案","agenda_id":"1139201_00001"}}}