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{\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 293.857, \"end\": 294.157, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 294.157, \"end\": 294.257, \"score\": 0.674}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 294.257, \"end\": 294.417, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 294.417, \"end\": 294.537, \"score\": 0.759}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 294.537, \"end\": 294.557, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 294.557, \"end\": 294.577, \"score\": 0.038}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 294.577, \"end\": 294.637, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 294.637, \"end\": 294.697, \"score\": 0.157}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 294.697, \"end\": 294.817, \"score\": 0.616}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 294.817, \"end\": 294.957, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 294.957, \"end\": 295.037, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 295.037, 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\"億\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 295.537, \"end\": 295.557, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 295.557, \"end\": 295.577, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 314.562, \"end\": 314.762, \"text\": \"委員長徐佳青\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 314.562, \"end\": 314.582, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"徐\", \"start\": 314.582, \"end\": 314.722, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"佳\", \"start\": 314.722, \"end\": 314.742, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"青\", \"start\": 314.742, \"end\": 314.762, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 345.583, \"end\": 364.121, \"text\": \"我們看一下你計劃要招生海青班4800人然後產學攜手合作僑生專班要兩萬一千多人他主要的目的是要累計留用的學士以上像這樣的僑生專班\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 345.583, \"end\": 345.823, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 345.823, \"end\": 346.003, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 346.003, \"end\": 346.144, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 346.144, \"end\": 346.604, 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00:01:38,149\n我初步的了解有些學校大家在海外招生的時候他知道說我們是補助學費了但是第一期的生活費因為他還沒進入實習第一期的前三個月還沒進入實習不會有收入那還有個原因是部分家庭因為清寒到連第一張機票還買不起\n\n6\n00:01:39,749 --> 00:01:40,990\n委員長我記得我們在談的時候我們的像這樣的一個專班的學生他甚至生活費其實是不需要付的\n\n7\n00:02:05,257 --> 00:02:10,262\n沒有沒有沒有我們是說他的生活今天他現在的問題是在第一期因為第一期剛進來的兩個月三個月還不能進到實習現場特別找這樣的學生那來就已經有缺錢的狀況現在我們要回到我們這個但是這不是全面的是部分而已部分家庭比較清寒所以我們\n\n8\n00:02:27,860 --> 00:02:41,411\n委員長聽完我的話因為你如果是部分的學生有比較可能生活狀況不好的那他跟學校借貸也不會是全面的可是學校是全部的學生所以我也覺得不應該對\n\n9\n00:02:42,732 --> 00:03:01,887\n所以不應該不是我們說還要匯教育部為什麼要匯教育部因為主管機關就是教育部那個不是主管機關的問題人是你們找進來的所以這個跟教育部已經沒有關係就這個部分而且就你理解掌握的狀況是少數有欠錢的\n\n10\n00:03:02,648 --> 00:03:08,370\n學生那他為什麼會這樣缺錢而且才第一期的生活費還有包括機票錢為什麼去找這樣子的學生明明他來我們這裡念書的條件並不是真的感覺不是真的要念書的可是你卻是找這樣的學生這是我們在這裡強烈要求他馬上就應該要返還不然這樣的學校你不可以再用而且你未來的學生也不可以再到這個學校\n\n11\n00:03:29,115 --> 00:03:46,445\n我們在今天的報告裡面有看到我們整個計畫尤其是這個部分就是說我們的海青班跟產學攜手合作的僑生專班這個部分在過去我們看到前兩次105年到108年\n\n12\n00:03:50,256 --> 00:03:58,494\n那時候大概總經費這都是4年的計畫嘛總經費是3億8千4百萬左右\n\n13\n00:03:59,710 --> 00:04:27,203\n然後109到112年他的總經費是十億五千萬五千八百萬他的成長幅度高達漲幅高達百分之一百七十五是然後他增加可是他的計劃也增加六億七千多萬是我想請教一下109年到112年那時候疫情發生比較嚴重的時候我們的這個招生的狀況都還是更好嗎因為他的他的\n\n14\n00:04:28,587 --> 00:04:37,491\n金費的那個那時候還是有微幅增加有還有微幅增加那委員我們真正預算規模增加是從2021年之後我們是2022年到2025年這四年22232425這四年的中期計劃總計是36億\n\n15\n00:04:51,696 --> 00:04:55,577\n那是我現在要說的嘛就是你112年到115年我們的計劃裡面變成36億你從不是是4年加起來36億越後面會越高我剛剛講的也是都是4年4年105年那個也是4年那個總經費是3億多嘛那你現在的4年是變到36億多了\n\n16\n00:05:14,562 --> 00:05:14,762\n委員長徐佳青\n\n17\n00:05:45,583 --> 00:06:04,121\n我們看一下你計劃要招生海青班4800人然後產學攜手合作僑生專班要兩萬一千多人他主要的目的是要累計留用的學士以上像這樣的僑生專班\n\n18\n00:06:06,414 --> 00:06:30,747\n那我們每年花這麼多在你們的計劃裡面他僑生專班要兩萬一千多人這個來源是什麼因為寫僑生專班啊對我們事實上目前的僑生人數不止這些還有一般大專生一般大專生大概就是就我們的問題就好了專班的部分有三種專班嘛三種專班你的僑生專班\n\n19\n00:06:33,829 --> 00:06:45,293\n高達兩萬一千多沒有沒有不是不是委員那個是總加總的是指這十年來加總的數字到目前是兩萬多那為什麼要編36億多你沒有那麼多人你為什麼要編36億多委員有啊我們今年一口氣已經到六千多啦每一年的學費\n\n20\n00:06:54,836 --> 00:06:56,918\n委員為什麼是這樣加總不是你回答我們的問題這樣子會比較大家會比較清楚對我現在要講因為一個學生是3加4的話念7年嘛那7年的前3年學費都是我補助的所以123年級會持續增加這一年是2000一年再4000變6000不要去講7年因為我講3年就好了3年就好了\n\n21\n00:07:17,353 --> 00:07:17,833\n學生人口數增加10倍\n\n22\n00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:42,664\n阿他為什麼增加10倍?因為喬生有這麼多嗎?這都是喬生嗎?這些都是喬生嗎?大部分的意思是什麼?因為這是喬生專班,你現在變成10倍的學生數,你說有增加10倍的學生嗎?這些都是喬生嗎?來自於哪裡?各國都有\n\n23\n00:07:57,170 --> 00:07:59,252\n主要在東南亞有7國,越南、印尼、菲律賓、緬甸、柬埔寨、馬來西亞、泰國這7國的僑生他的認定身份怎麼認定?\n\n24\n00:08:13,844 --> 00:08:20,952\n我們早期是說他要提出他有什麼樣的文件但是這兩年呢我們認為這種沒辦法去驗證他文書的正確性我們現在是以華語程度有沒有達到A1級華語就是僑生的意思嗎\n\n25\n00:08:29,900 --> 00:08:30,001\n馬文君\n\n26\n00:08:50,142 --> 00:09:00,855\n現在我們先就這個部分你把那個2萬多人你預計明年要有2萬多人然後要用掉我們36億的預算明年是10億\n\n27\n00:09:02,637 --> 00:09:02,677\n馬文君議員\n\n28\n00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:28,760\n委員長你用的是國家的預算你不要一直什麼承認我現在給你的是數據到你們現在都還在持續下降當中可是你的錢是越編越多而且你現在的對象是\n\n29\n00:09:52,665 --> 00:09:52,705\n﹚馬文君﹚\n\n30\n00:10:16,027 --> 00:10:16,327\n我們希望僑委會就是\n\n31\n00:10:45,245 --> 00:10:45,325\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n189\t1250\t主席麻煩請委員長委員長請馬委員你好\n9956\t29572\t委員長好 延續剛剛紅委員的問題這個部分因為是僑委會負責辦理進來的那學校也是僑委會媒介所以立即應該就請他們終止這樣的做法因為這讓人家想到聯想到我們有很多被騙到\n31013\t38818\t免電或者甚至其他地方的我們自己的年輕人我們自己的孩子他們就是這樣被扣的所以台灣怎麼會就這樣這不需要跟他們什麼勸導或什麼他就是不可以所以這個應該立即就要做這個部分我們強烈要求剛剛主席也做了\n51406\t53748\t為什麼來念書的學生會先跟學校借錢?就你們掌握的資訊,為什麼?\n75238\t98149\t我初步的了解有些學校大家在海外招生的時候他知道說我們是補助學費了但是第一期的生活費因為他還沒進入實習第一期的前三個月還沒進入實習不會有收入那還有個原因是部分家庭因為清寒到連第一張機票還買不起\n99749\t100990\t委員長我記得我們在談的時候我們的像這樣的一個專班的學生他甚至生活費其實是不需要付的\n125257\t130262\t沒有沒有沒有我們是說他的生活今天他現在的問題是在第一期因為第一期剛進來的兩個月三個月還不能進到實習現場特別找這樣的學生那來就已經有缺錢的狀況現在我們要回到我們這個但是這不是全面的是部分而已部分家庭比較清寒所以我們\n147860\t161411\t委員長聽完我的話因為你如果是部分的學生有比較可能生活狀況不好的那他跟學校借貸也不會是全面的可是學校是全部的學生所以我也覺得不應該對\n162732\t181887\t所以不應該不是我們說還要匯教育部為什麼要匯教育部因為主管機關就是教育部那個不是主管機關的問題人是你們找進來的所以這個跟教育部已經沒有關係就這個部分而且就你理解掌握的狀況是少數有欠錢的\n182648\t188370\t學生那他為什麼會這樣缺錢而且才第一期的生活費還有包括機票錢為什麼去找這樣子的學生明明他來我們這裡念書的條件並不是真的感覺不是真的要念書的可是你卻是找這樣的學生這是我們在這裡強烈要求他馬上就應該要返還不然這樣的學校你不可以再用而且你未來的學生也不可以再到這個學校\n209115\t226445\t我們在今天的報告裡面有看到我們整個計畫尤其是這個部分就是說我們的海青班跟產學攜手合作的僑生專班這個部分在過去我們看到前兩次105年到108年\n230256\t238494\t那時候大概總經費這都是4年的計畫嘛總經費是3億8千4百萬左右\n239710\t267203\t然後109到112年他的總經費是十億五千萬五千八百萬他的成長幅度高達漲幅高達百分之一百七十五是然後他增加可是他的計劃也增加六億七千多萬是我想請教一下109年到112年那時候疫情發生比較嚴重的時候我們的這個招生的狀況都還是更好嗎因為他的他的\n268587\t277491\t金費的那個那時候還是有微幅增加有還有微幅增加那委員我們真正預算規模增加是從2021年之後我們是2022年到2025年這四年22232425這四年的中期計劃總計是36億\n291696\t295577\t那是我現在要說的嘛就是你112年到115年我們的計劃裡面變成36億你從不是是4年加起來36億越後面會越高我剛剛講的也是都是4年4年105年那個也是4年那個總經費是3億多嘛那你現在的4年是變到36億多了\n314562\t314762\t委員長徐佳青\n345583\t364121\t我們看一下你計劃要招生海青班4800人然後產學攜手合作僑生專班要兩萬一千多人他主要的目的是要累計留用的學士以上像這樣的僑生專班\n366414\t390747\t那我們每年花這麼多在你們的計劃裡面他僑生專班要兩萬一千多人這個來源是什麼因為寫僑生專班啊對我們事實上目前的僑生人數不止這些還有一般大專生一般大專生大概就是就我們的問題就好了專班的部分有三種專班嘛三種專班你的僑生專班\n393829\t405293\t高達兩萬一千多沒有沒有不是不是委員那個是總加總的是指這十年來加總的數字到目前是兩萬多那為什麼要編36億多你沒有那麼多人你為什麼要編36億多委員有啊我們今年一口氣已經到六千多啦每一年的學費\n414836\t416918\t委員為什麼是這樣加總不是你回答我們的問題這樣子會比較大家會比較清楚對我現在要講因為一個學生是3加4的話念7年嘛那7年的前3年學費都是我補助的所以123年級會持續增加這一年是2000一年再4000變6000不要去講7年因為我講3年就好了3年就好了\n437353\t437833\t學生人口數增加10倍\n454400\t462664\t阿他為什麼增加10倍?因為喬生有這麼多嗎?這都是喬生嗎?這些都是喬生嗎?大部分的意思是什麼?因為這是喬生專班,你現在變成10倍的學生數,你說有增加10倍的學生嗎?這些都是喬生嗎?來自於哪裡?各國都有\n477170\t479252\t主要在東南亞有7國,越南、印尼、菲律賓、緬甸、柬埔寨、馬來西亞、泰國這7國的僑生他的認定身份怎麼認定?\n493844\t500952\t我們早期是說他要提出他有什麼樣的文件但是這兩年呢我們認為這種沒辦法去驗證他文書的正確性我們現在是以華語程度有沒有達到A1級華語就是僑生的意思嗎\n509900\t510001\t馬文君\n530142\t540855\t現在我們先就這個部分你把那個2萬多人你預計明年要有2萬多人然後要用掉我們36億的預算明年是10億\n542637\t542677\t馬文君議員\n566880\t568760\t委員長你用的是國家的預算你不要一直什麼承認我現在給你的是數據到你們現在都還在持續下降當中可是你的錢是越編越多而且你現在的對象是\n592665\t592705\t﹚馬文君﹚\n616027\t616327\t我們希望僑委會就是\n645245\t645325\t主席\n","txt":"主席麻煩請委員長委員長請馬委員你好\n委員長好 延續剛剛紅委員的問題這個部分因為是僑委會負責辦理進來的那學校也是僑委會媒介所以立即應該就請他們終止這樣的做法因為這讓人家想到聯想到我們有很多被騙到\n免電或者甚至其他地方的我們自己的年輕人我們自己的孩子他們就是這樣被扣的所以台灣怎麼會就這樣這不需要跟他們什麼勸導或什麼他就是不可以所以這個應該立即就要做這個部分我們強烈要求剛剛主席也做了\n為什麼來念書的學生會先跟學校借錢?就你們掌握的資訊,為什麼?\n我初步的了解有些學校大家在海外招生的時候他知道說我們是補助學費了但是第一期的生活費因為他還沒進入實習第一期的前三個月還沒進入實習不會有收入那還有個原因是部分家庭因為清寒到連第一張機票還買不起\n委員長我記得我們在談的時候我們的像這樣的一個專班的學生他甚至生活費其實是不需要付的\n沒有沒有沒有我們是說他的生活今天他現在的問題是在第一期因為第一期剛進來的兩個月三個月還不能進到實習現場特別找這樣的學生那來就已經有缺錢的狀況現在我們要回到我們這個但是這不是全面的是部分而已部分家庭比較清寒所以我們\n委員長聽完我的話因為你如果是部分的學生有比較可能生活狀況不好的那他跟學校借貸也不會是全面的可是學校是全部的學生所以我也覺得不應該對\n所以不應該不是我們說還要匯教育部為什麼要匯教育部因為主管機關就是教育部那個不是主管機關的問題人是你們找進來的所以這個跟教育部已經沒有關係就這個部分而且就你理解掌握的狀況是少數有欠錢的\n學生那他為什麼會這樣缺錢而且才第一期的生活費還有包括機票錢為什麼去找這樣子的學生明明他來我們這裡念書的條件並不是真的感覺不是真的要念書的可是你卻是找這樣的學生這是我們在這裡強烈要求他馬上就應該要返還不然這樣的學校你不可以再用而且你未來的學生也不可以再到這個學校\n我們在今天的報告裡面有看到我們整個計畫尤其是這個部分就是說我們的海青班跟產學攜手合作的僑生專班這個部分在過去我們看到前兩次105年到108年\n那時候大概總經費這都是4年的計畫嘛總經費是3億8千4百萬左右\n然後109到112年他的總經費是十億五千萬五千八百萬他的成長幅度高達漲幅高達百分之一百七十五是然後他增加可是他的計劃也增加六億七千多萬是我想請教一下109年到112年那時候疫情發生比較嚴重的時候我們的這個招生的狀況都還是更好嗎因為他的他的\n金費的那個那時候還是有微幅增加有還有微幅增加那委員我們真正預算規模增加是從2021年之後我們是2022年到2025年這四年22232425這四年的中期計劃總計是36億\n那是我現在要說的嘛就是你112年到115年我們的計劃裡面變成36億你從不是是4年加起來36億越後面會越高我剛剛講的也是都是4年4年105年那個也是4年那個總經費是3億多嘛那你現在的4年是變到36億多了\n委員長徐佳青\n我們看一下你計劃要招生海青班4800人然後產學攜手合作僑生專班要兩萬一千多人他主要的目的是要累計留用的學士以上像這樣的僑生專班\n那我們每年花這麼多在你們的計劃裡面他僑生專班要兩萬一千多人這個來源是什麼因為寫僑生專班啊對我們事實上目前的僑生人數不止這些還有一般大專生一般大專生大概就是就我們的問題就好了專班的部分有三種專班嘛三種專班你的僑生專班\n高達兩萬一千多沒有沒有不是不是委員那個是總加總的是指這十年來加總的數字到目前是兩萬多那為什麼要編36億多你沒有那麼多人你為什麼要編36億多委員有啊我們今年一口氣已經到六千多啦每一年的學費\n委員為什麼是這樣加總不是你回答我們的問題這樣子會比較大家會比較清楚對我現在要講因為一個學生是3加4的話念7年嘛那7年的前3年學費都是我補助的所以123年級會持續增加這一年是2000一年再4000變6000不要去講7年因為我講3年就好了3年就好了\n學生人口數增加10倍\n阿他為什麼增加10倍?因為喬生有這麼多嗎?這都是喬生嗎?這些都是喬生嗎?大部分的意思是什麼?因為這是喬生專班,你現在變成10倍的學生數,你說有增加10倍的學生嗎?這些都是喬生嗎?來自於哪裡?各國都有\n主要在東南亞有7國,越南、印尼、菲律賓、緬甸、柬埔寨、馬來西亞、泰國這7國的僑生他的認定身份怎麼認定?\n我們早期是說他要提出他有什麼樣的文件但是這兩年呢我們認為這種沒辦法去驗證他文書的正確性我們現在是以華語程度有沒有達到A1級華語就是僑生的意思嗎\n馬文君\n現在我們先就這個部分你把那個2萬多人你預計明年要有2萬多人然後要用掉我們36億的預算明年是10億\n馬文君議員\n委員長你用的是國家的預算你不要一直什麼承認我現在給你的是數據到你們現在都還在持續下降當中可是你的錢是越編越多而且你現在的對象是\n﹚馬文君﹚\n我們希望僑委會就是\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.189 --> 00:01.250\n主席麻煩請委員長委員長請馬委員你好\n\n00:09.956 --> 00:29.572\n委員長好延續剛剛紅委員的問題這個部分因為是僑委會負責辦理進來的那學校也是僑委會媒介所以立即應該就請他們終止這樣的做法因為這讓人家想到聯想到我們有很多被騙到\n\n00:31.013 --> 00:38.818\n免電或者甚至其他地方的我們自己的年輕人我們自己的孩子他們就是這樣被扣的所以台灣怎麼會就這樣這不需要跟他們什麼勸導或什麼他就是不可以所以這個應該立即就要做這個部分我們強烈要求剛剛主席也做了\n\n00:51.406 --> 00:53.748\n為什麼來念書的學生會先跟學校借錢?就你們掌握的資訊,為什麼?\n\n01:15.238 --> 01:38.149\n我初步的了解有些學校大家在海外招生的時候他知道說我們是補助學費了但是第一期的生活費因為他還沒進入實習第一期的前三個月還沒進入實習不會有收入那還有個原因是部分家庭因為清寒到連第一張機票還買不起\n\n01:39.749 --> 01:40.990\n委員長我記得我們在談的時候我們的像這樣的一個專班的學生他甚至生活費其實是不需要付的\n\n02:05.257 --> 02:10.262\n沒有沒有沒有我們是說他的生活今天他現在的問題是在第一期因為第一期剛進來的兩個月三個月還不能進到實習現場特別找這樣的學生那來就已經有缺錢的狀況現在我們要回到我們這個但是這不是全面的是部分而已部分家庭比較清寒所以我們\n\n02:27.860 --> 02:41.411\n委員長聽完我的話因為你如果是部分的學生有比較可能生活狀況不好的那他跟學校借貸也不會是全面的可是學校是全部的學生所以我也覺得不應該對\n\n02:42.732 --> 03:01.887\n所以不應該不是我們說還要匯教育部為什麼要匯教育部因為主管機關就是教育部那個不是主管機關的問題人是你們找進來的所以這個跟教育部已經沒有關係就這個部分而且就你理解掌握的狀況是少數有欠錢的\n\n03:02.648 --> 03:08.370\n學生那他為什麼會這樣缺錢而且才第一期的生活費還有包括機票錢為什麼去找這樣子的學生明明他來我們這裡念書的條件並不是真的感覺不是真的要念書的可是你卻是找這樣的學生這是我們在這裡強烈要求他馬上就應該要返還不然這樣的學校你不可以再用而且你未來的學生也不可以再到這個學校\n\n03:29.115 --> 03:46.445\n我們在今天的報告裡面有看到我們整個計畫尤其是這個部分就是說我們的海青班跟產學攜手合作的僑生專班這個部分在過去我們看到前兩次105年到108年\n\n03:50.256 --> 03:58.494\n那時候大概總經費這都是4年的計畫嘛總經費是3億8千4百萬左右\n\n03:59.710 --> 04:27.203\n然後109到112年他的總經費是十億五千萬五千八百萬他的成長幅度高達漲幅高達百分之一百七十五是然後他增加可是他的計劃也增加六億七千多萬是我想請教一下109年到112年那時候疫情發生比較嚴重的時候我們的這個招生的狀況都還是更好嗎因為他的他的\n\n04:28.587 --> 04:37.491\n金費的那個那時候還是有微幅增加有還有微幅增加那委員我們真正預算規模增加是從2021年之後我們是2022年到2025年這四年22232425這四年的中期計劃總計是36億\n\n04:51.696 --> 04:55.577\n那是我現在要說的嘛就是你112年到115年我們的計劃裡面變成36億你從不是是4年加起來36億越後面會越高我剛剛講的也是都是4年4年105年那個也是4年那個總經費是3億多嘛那你現在的4年是變到36億多了\n\n05:14.562 --> 05:14.762\n委員長徐佳青\n\n05:45.583 --> 06:04.121\n我們看一下你計劃要招生海青班4800人然後產學攜手合作僑生專班要兩萬一千多人他主要的目的是要累計留用的學士以上像這樣的僑生專班\n\n06:06.414 --> 06:30.747\n那我們每年花這麼多在你們的計劃裡面他僑生專班要兩萬一千多人這個來源是什麼因為寫僑生專班啊對我們事實上目前的僑生人數不止這些還有一般大專生一般大專生大概就是就我們的問題就好了專班的部分有三種專班嘛三種專班你的僑生專班\n\n06:33.829 --> 06:45.293\n高達兩萬一千多沒有沒有不是不是委員那個是總加總的是指這十年來加總的數字到目前是兩萬多那為什麼要編36億多你沒有那麼多人你為什麼要編36億多委員有啊我們今年一口氣已經到六千多啦每一年的學費\n\n06:54.836 --> 06:56.918\n委員為什麼是這樣加總不是你回答我們的問題這樣子會比較大家會比較清楚對我現在要講因為一個學生是3加4的話念7年嘛那7年的前3年學費都是我補助的所以123年級會持續增加這一年是2000一年再4000變6000不要去講7年因為我講3年就好了3年就好了\n\n07:17.353 --> 07:17.833\n學生人口數增加10倍\n\n07:34.400 --> 07:42.664\n阿他為什麼增加10倍?因為喬生有這麼多嗎?這都是喬生嗎?這些都是喬生嗎?大部分的意思是什麼?因為這是喬生專班,你現在變成10倍的學生數,你說有增加10倍的學生嗎?這些都是喬生嗎?來自於哪裡?各國都有\n\n07:57.170 --> 07:59.252\n主要在東南亞有7國,越南、印尼、菲律賓、緬甸、柬埔寨、馬來西亞、泰國這7國的僑生他的認定身份怎麼認定?\n\n08:13.844 --> 08:20.952\n我們早期是說他要提出他有什麼樣的文件但是這兩年呢我們認為這種沒辦法去驗證他文書的正確性我們現在是以華語程度有沒有達到A1級華語就是僑生的意思嗎\n\n08:29.900 --> 08:30.001\n馬文君\n\n08:50.142 --> 09:00.855\n現在我們先就這個部分你把那個2萬多人你預計明年要有2萬多人然後要用掉我們36億的預算明年是10億\n\n09:02.637 --> 09:02.677\n馬文君議員\n\n09:26.880 --> 09:28.760\n委員長你用的是國家的預算你不要一直什麼承認我現在給你的是數據到你們現在都還在持續下降當中可是你的錢是越編越多而且你現在的對象是\n\n09:52.665 --> 09:52.705\n﹚馬文君﹚\n\n10:16.027 --> 10:16.327\n我們希望僑委會就是\n\n10:45.245 --> 10:45.325\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.189,"end":1.25,"text":"主席麻煩請委員長委員長請馬委員你好"},{"start":9.956,"end":29.572,"text":"委員長好 延續剛剛紅委員的問題這個部分因為是僑委會負責辦理進來的那學校也是僑委會媒介所以立即應該就請他們終止這樣的做法因為這讓人家想到聯想到我們有很多被騙到"},{"start":31.013,"end":38.818,"text":"免電或者甚至其他地方的我們自己的年輕人我們自己的孩子他們就是這樣被扣的所以台灣怎麼會就這樣這不需要跟他們什麼勸導或什麼他就是不可以所以這個應該立即就要做這個部分我們強烈要求剛剛主席也做了"},{"start":51.406,"end":53.748,"text":"為什麼來念書的學生會先跟學校借錢?就你們掌握的資訊,為什麼?"},{"start":75.238,"end":98.149,"text":"我初步的了解有些學校大家在海外招生的時候他知道說我們是補助學費了但是第一期的生活費因為他還沒進入實習第一期的前三個月還沒進入實習不會有收入那還有個原因是部分家庭因為清寒到連第一張機票還買不起"},{"start":99.749,"end":100.99,"text":"委員長我記得我們在談的時候我們的像這樣的一個專班的學生他甚至生活費其實是不需要付的"},{"start":125.257,"end":130.262,"text":"沒有沒有沒有我們是說他的生活今天他現在的問題是在第一期因為第一期剛進來的兩個月三個月還不能進到實習現場特別找這樣的學生那來就已經有缺錢的狀況現在我們要回到我們這個但是這不是全面的是部分而已部分家庭比較清寒所以我們"},{"start":147.86,"end":161.411,"text":"委員長聽完我的話因為你如果是部分的學生有比較可能生活狀況不好的那他跟學校借貸也不會是全面的可是學校是全部的學生所以我也覺得不應該對"},{"start":162.732,"end":181.887,"text":"所以不應該不是我們說還要匯教育部為什麼要匯教育部因為主管機關就是教育部那個不是主管機關的問題人是你們找進來的所以這個跟教育部已經沒有關係就這個部分而且就你理解掌握的狀況是少數有欠錢的"},{"start":182.648,"end":188.37,"text":"學生那他為什麼會這樣缺錢而且才第一期的生活費還有包括機票錢為什麼去找這樣子的學生明明他來我們這裡念書的條件並不是真的感覺不是真的要念書的可是你卻是找這樣的學生這是我們在這裡強烈要求他馬上就應該要返還不然這樣的學校你不可以再用而且你未來的學生也不可以再到這個學校"},{"start":209.115,"end":226.445,"text":"我們在今天的報告裡面有看到我們整個計畫尤其是這個部分就是說我們的海青班跟產學攜手合作的僑生專班這個部分在過去我們看到前兩次105年到108年"},{"start":230.256,"end":238.494,"text":"那時候大概總經費這都是4年的計畫嘛總經費是3億8千4百萬左右"},{"start":239.71,"end":267.203,"text":"然後109到112年他的總經費是十億五千萬五千八百萬他的成長幅度高達漲幅高達百分之一百七十五是然後他增加可是他的計劃也增加六億七千多萬是我想請教一下109年到112年那時候疫情發生比較嚴重的時候我們的這個招生的狀況都還是更好嗎因為他的他的"},{"start":268.587,"end":277.491,"text":"金費的那個那時候還是有微幅增加有還有微幅增加那委員我們真正預算規模增加是從2021年之後我們是2022年到2025年這四年22232425這四年的中期計劃總計是36億"},{"start":291.696,"end":295.577,"text":"那是我現在要說的嘛就是你112年到115年我們的計劃裡面變成36億你從不是是4年加起來36億越後面會越高我剛剛講的也是都是4年4年105年那個也是4年那個總經費是3億多嘛那你現在的4年是變到36億多了"},{"start":314.562,"end":314.762,"text":"委員長徐佳青"},{"start":345.583,"end":364.121,"text":"我們看一下你計劃要招生海青班4800人然後產學攜手合作僑生專班要兩萬一千多人他主要的目的是要累計留用的學士以上像這樣的僑生專班"},{"start":366.414,"end":390.747,"text":"那我們每年花這麼多在你們的計劃裡面他僑生專班要兩萬一千多人這個來源是什麼因為寫僑生專班啊對我們事實上目前的僑生人數不止這些還有一般大專生一般大專生大概就是就我們的問題就好了專班的部分有三種專班嘛三種專班你的僑生專班"},{"start":393.829,"end":405.293,"text":"高達兩萬一千多沒有沒有不是不是委員那個是總加總的是指這十年來加總的數字到目前是兩萬多那為什麼要編36億多你沒有那麼多人你為什麼要編36億多委員有啊我們今年一口氣已經到六千多啦每一年的學費"},{"start":414.836,"end":416.918,"text":"委員為什麼是這樣加總不是你回答我們的問題這樣子會比較大家會比較清楚對我現在要講因為一個學生是3加4的話念7年嘛那7年的前3年學費都是我補助的所以123年級會持續增加這一年是2000一年再4000變6000不要去講7年因為我講3年就好了3年就好了"},{"start":437.353,"end":437.833,"text":"學生人口數增加10倍"},{"start":454.4,"end":462.664,"text":"阿他為什麼增加10倍?因為喬生有這麼多嗎?這都是喬生嗎?這些都是喬生嗎?大部分的意思是什麼?因為這是喬生專班,你現在變成10倍的學生數,你說有增加10倍的學生嗎?這些都是喬生嗎?來自於哪裡?各國都有"},{"start":477.17,"end":479.252,"text":"主要在東南亞有7國,越南、印尼、菲律賓、緬甸、柬埔寨、馬來西亞、泰國這7國的僑生他的認定身份怎麼認定?"},{"start":493.844,"end":500.952,"text":"我們早期是說他要提出他有什麼樣的文件但是這兩年呢我們認為這種沒辦法去驗證他文書的正確性我們現在是以華語程度有沒有達到A1級華語就是僑生的意思嗎"},{"start":509.9,"end":510.001,"text":"馬文君"},{"start":530.142,"end":540.855,"text":"現在我們先就這個部分你把那個2萬多人你預計明年要有2萬多人然後要用掉我們36億的預算明年是10億"},{"start":542.637,"end":542.677,"text":"馬文君議員"},{"start":566.88,"end":568.76,"text":"委員長你用的是國家的預算你不要一直什麼承認我現在給你的是數據到你們現在都還在持續下降當中可是你的錢是越編越多而且你現在的對象是"},{"start":592.665,"end":592.705,"text":"﹚馬文君﹚"},{"start":616.027,"end":616.327,"text":"我們希望僑委會就是"},{"start":645.245,"end":645.325,"text":"主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":340,"blocks":[["馬委員文君：（10時27分）謝謝主席，麻煩請委員長。"],["主席：委員長，請。"],["徐委員長佳青：馬委員，你好。"],["馬委員文君：委員長好。延續剛剛洪委員的問題，這個部分因為是僑委會負責辦理進來的，學校也是僑委會媒介，所以應該立即請他們終止這樣的做法。"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["馬委員文君：因為這會讓人家聯想到我們有很多被騙到緬甸或者是其他地方的我們自己的年輕人、我們自己的孩子……"],["徐委員長佳青：是的，我會將心比心。"],["馬委員文君：他們就是這樣被扣的。"],["徐委員長佳青：對。"],["馬委員文君：所以臺灣怎麼會做這樣的事？這個不需要跟他們什麼勸導或什麼，它就是不可以。"],["徐委員長佳青：是的。"],["馬委員文君：所以這個應該立即就要做。這個部分我們強烈要求，剛剛主席也做了這樣子的一個決議，我們希望知道的學校應該馬上就返還。"],["徐委員長佳青：好。"],["馬委員文君：接下來還要再請教一下，為什麼來念書的學生會先跟學校借錢？就你們掌握的資訊，為什麼？"],["徐委員長佳青：根據我初步的瞭解，有些學校在海外招生的時候，知道我們是補助學費，但是生活費方面，因為第1期的前3個月他們還沒進入實習，不會有收入，還有一個原因是部分家庭清寒到連第一張機票都買不起，多數是因為……","還有辦理證件，這樣第1期的費用。近年來我們為了降低這種學校去招生時的……"],["馬委員文君：委員長，我記得我們在……"],["徐委員長佳青：所以我們現在有請台商會成立基金會來協助。"],["馬委員文君：我記得我們在談的時候，像這樣一個專班的學生，他甚至生活費其實是不需要付的喔！"],["徐委員長佳青：沒有、沒有、沒有，我們是說他的生活津貼。他現在的問題是在第1期，因為第1期剛進來的兩個月、三個月，還不能進到實習現場。"],["馬委員文君：所以特別找這樣的學生，他們來的時候就已經有缺錢的狀況。現在我們要回到這個計畫的部分……"],["徐委員長佳青：但是這不是全面的，是部分而已……"],["馬委員文君：部分，他為什麼會……"],["徐委員長佳青：部分家庭比較清寒，所以我們……"],["馬委員文君：委員長聽完我的話，如果是部分學生的生活狀況可能比較不好，他跟學校借貸也不會是全面的……"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["馬委員文君：可是學校是全部學生的護照……"],["徐委員長佳青：對，所以我也覺得不應該。"],["馬委員文君：所以不應該，可是你們不是說還要會教育部，為什麼要會教育部？這個部分你們馬上就應該處理，它如果不行……"],["徐委員長佳青：因為主管機關就是教育部。"],["馬委員文君：那個不是主管機關的問題，人是你們找進來的，所以那個跟教育部沒有關係，而且就你理解、掌握的狀況，是少數有欠錢的學生，他為什麼會這樣缺錢？而且才第1期的生活費，還包括機票錢，為什麼去找這樣子的學生？明明他來我們這裡感覺並不是真的要念書的，可是你卻找這樣的學生。我們在這裡強烈要求，它馬上就應該要返還，不然，這樣的學校，你不可以再用，而且你未來的學生也不可以再到這幾個學校……"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["馬委員文君：我們在今天的報告裡面有看到整個計畫，尤其是海青班及產學攜手合作僑生專班這個部分，我們看到前兩次，105年到108年那時候的總經費，這都是4年的計畫嘛！"],["徐委員長佳青：對。"],["馬委員文君：總經費是3億8,400萬左右，109年到112年的總經費是10億5,800萬，它的成長幅度（漲幅）高達175%……"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["馬委員文君：它的計畫也增加六億七千多萬……"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["馬委員文君：我想要請教一下，109年到112年那時候疫情比較嚴重，我們這個招生狀況更好嗎？因為它的經費預算……"],["徐委員長佳青：那時候還是有微幅增加，有，還有微幅增加。委員，我們真正預算規模增加是從2021年之後，我們2022年到2025年這4年（2022、2023、2024、2025這4年）的中期計畫總計是36億，所以……"],["馬委員文君：那是我現在要說的，就是112年到115年你們的計畫裡面變成36億，你們從……"],["徐委員長佳青：不是，是4年加起來36億……"],["馬委員文君：對啦！我知道，我剛剛講的……"],["徐委員長佳青：越後面會越高。"],["馬委員文君：我剛剛講的也都是4年、4年……"],["徐委員長佳青：是的、是的。"],["馬委員文君：105年那個也是4年，總經費是三億多，你現在的4年是編到三十六億多，它的漲幅幾乎是10倍以上……"],["徐委員長佳青：委員，36億是分在4年……"],["馬委員文君：我知道啦！我剛剛講的105年到108年的也是4年……"],["徐委員長佳青：105年的時候沒有中期計畫，那個只有該年度而已……"],["馬委員文君：沒有啦！你是那個計畫的名稱不一樣，可是對象是一樣，做的事情是一樣的，所以……"],["徐委員長佳青：是一樣，沒錯。"],["馬委員文君：我現在講的是你105年到108年那時候4年是編三億多，你現在的4年是編三十六億多……"],["徐委員長佳青：是、是、是。"],["馬委員文君：對。我們看一下，你計畫要招生，海青班要4,800人，產學攜手合作僑生專班要二萬一千多人，它主要的目的是要留用學士以上的，像這樣的僑生專班，對不對？"],["徐委員長佳青：是的。"],["馬委員文君：我們每年花這麼多，在你們的計畫裡面，僑生專班要二萬一千多人，這個來源是什麼？因為你寫「僑生專班」，我們有那麼多僑生嗎？"],["徐委員長佳青：事實上我們目前的僑生人數不只這些，還有一般大專生，一般大專生大概就是……"],["馬委員文君：就我們的問題就好了，你現在……"],["徐委員長佳青：專班的部分有三種專班，三種專班……"],["馬委員文君：對，你的僑生專班有高達二萬一千多人嘛！"],["徐委員長佳青：沒有、沒有，不是、不是，委員，那個是加總的，是指這10年來加總的數字，到目前是2萬多……"],["馬委員文君：那為什麼要編三十六億多，沒有那麼多人，你為什麼要編三十六億多？"],["徐委員長佳青：委員，有啊！我們今年一口氣已經到六千多了，這個每一年的學費會……"],["馬委員文君：明年有多少？明年有多少？"],["徐委員長佳青：委員，為什麼是這樣加總……"],["馬委員文君：委員長，不是，你回答我們的問題，這樣大家會比較清楚，就是你編的36億……"],["徐委員長佳青：對，我現在要講，因為一個學生是3加4的話，念7年嘛！"],["馬委員文君：對。"],["徐委員長佳青：7年的前3年學費都是我補助的，而且1、2、3年級會持續增加……"],["馬委員文君：委員長……"],["徐委員長佳青：如果第1年是2,000，明年再4,000，變6,000……"],["馬委員文君：委員長，你先不要去講7年，因為你編的……"],["徐委員長佳青：我講3年就好了，3年就好了……"],["馬委員文君：我現在要問它的差異在哪裡，你之前那個4年的計畫只有三億多……"],["徐委員長佳青：對。"],["馬委員文君：現在變成三十六億多的原因，把這個原因講出來就好了，好不好？"],["徐委員長佳青：原因就是這個學生人口數增加10倍。"],["馬委員文君：它為什麼增加10倍？"],["徐委員長佳青：因為我們專班……"],["馬委員文君：僑生有這麼多嗎？"],["徐委員長佳青：有、有、有，我們……"],["馬委員文君：這都是僑生嗎？"],["徐委員長佳青：我們前幾年是……"],["馬委員文君：這些都是僑生嗎？"],["徐委員長佳青：是，大部分都是僑生，因為……"],["馬委員文君：「大部分」的意思是什麼？因為你是僑生專班，學生數現在變成10倍，你說原因是增加10倍的學生嘛！"],["徐委員長佳青：對、對、對。"],["馬委員文君：這些都是僑生嗎？"],["徐委員長佳青：是。"],["馬委員文君：來自於哪裡？"],["徐委員長佳青：各國都有。"],["馬委員文君：哪幾國？"],["徐委員長佳青：主要在東南亞，有7國……"],["馬委員文君：哪7國？"],["徐委員長佳青：越南、印尼、菲律賓、緬甸、柬埔寨、馬來西亞、泰國，這7國為主。"],["馬委員文君：這7國僑生的身分怎麼認定？"],["徐委員長佳青：我們早期是說他要提出他有什麼樣的文件，但是這兩年我們認為這種沒辦法去驗證他文書的正確性，我們現在是以華語程度有沒有達到A1級……"],["馬委員文君：所以只要會講華語就是僑生的意思嗎？"],["徐委員長佳青：我們現在是以這個來認定，因為……"],["馬委員文君：就是會講華語就是僑生的意思嗎？"],["徐委員長佳青：是的、是的。"],["馬委員文君：所以我們編列三億多的國家預算要讓他們來這裡念書，還有產學合作，我們的學生數是增加10倍，是嗎？"],["徐委員長佳青：是的、是的。"],["馬委員文君：不好意思！主席。","現在我們先就這個部分，你把你預計明年要有二萬多人要用掉我們36億的預算這個部分……"],["徐委員長佳青：明年是10億。"],["馬委員文君：你是4年計畫，你不用去算……"],["徐委員長佳青：4年，第1年3億，第2年5億，第3年……"],["馬委員文君：你編的計畫就是36億……"],["徐委員長佳青：總計4年。"],["馬委員文君：委員長，所以你不要再去講明年是多少，我們現在看的就是4年、4年，之前就4年三億多，你現在4年三十六億多……"],["徐委員長佳青：這是我們第一次編4年的。"],["馬委員文君：告訴我們所有的國人，你們為什麼要編這樣的預算，因為我們本來的對象是僑生……"],["徐委員長佳青：這對於我們培養人才和未來的人才培育很重要。"],["馬委員文君：好，你說培養人才，你知道你的畢業人數從110年的45%到112年降到36%，所以……"],["徐委員長佳青：委員，那個早期是在實驗計畫，所以很多不是很成熟，我承認……"],["馬委員文君：委員長，你用的是國家的預算，你不要一直什麼承認，我現在給你的是數據，這個到現在都還在持續下降當中，可是你的錢是越編越多，而且你現在的對象是任何人只要會華語就好了，就可以來我們這裡一邊念書，還有生活費，還有學雜費的補助，還有……"],["徐委員長佳青：實習津貼。"],["馬委員文君：實習津貼是工廠、企業還有服務的單位給他們的，那這些單位為什麼要用這樣的人力？這個部分跟我們剛剛講的一起討論，好不好？就你把人帶進來以後，他被扣了護照，他是怎麼樣的學習狀況，請給我們一份完整的報告……"],["徐委員長佳青：好的，謝謝馬委員，好的。"],["馬委員文君：好，謝謝……"],["主席：委員會共同關心啦！"],["馬委員文君：好……"],["徐委員長佳青：好。"],["馬委員文君：主席，也順便再要求一點，就是從三億多變成三十六億多，增加的對象有多少人？他們大概是分配到哪幾個學校，還有哪幾個工作單位？也希望一併給委員會，謝謝。"],["徐委員長佳青：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝馬委員。","我們希望僑委會，不管3億或36億，那個效益分析要讓人民知道，因為那個畢竟是納稅人的錢，好不好？"],["徐委員長佳青：好的。"],["主席：好，請坐。","接下來進行詢答的委員是陳冠廷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":232,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-9","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","沈伯洋","林楚茵","徐巧芯","洪申翰","馬文君","陳冠廷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","葉元之","林憶君","陳永康","黃仁","吳春城","楊瓊瓔","賴惠員"],"page_start":195,"meetingDate":["2024-10-30"],"gazette_id":"1139102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139102_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請僑務委員會委員長徐佳青報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1139102_00003"}}}